TRASHFUTURE - Anger Ramadan feat. Eleanor Penny

Episode Date: April 16, 2020

We were going to talk about the new Matt Hancock app and something about Softbank but then we got distracted. Some things happened involving the Labour party, and we needed to comment -- so we brought on Novara Media's Eleanor Penny (@eleanorkpenny) to discuss it alongside the full cast of Riley, Milo, Hussein, Nate, and Alice. Riley (@raaleh), Milo (@Milo_Edwards), Hussein (@HKesvani), Nate (@inthesedeserts), and Alice (@AliceAvizandum). Will you love it? Probably not.  For context on the Emma Dent Coad story mentioned in this episode, we recommend checking out this piece that she authored for Novara. If you want access to our Patreon bonus episodes and powerful Discord server, sign up here: https://www.patreon.com/trashfuture Also, if you want one of our *fine* new shirts, designed by Matt Lubchansky, then e-mail trashfuturepodcast [at] gmail [dot] com. £15 for patrons, £20 for non-patrons, plus shipping. *WEB DESIGN ALERT* Tom Allen is a friend of the show (and the designer behind GYDS.com). If you need web design help, reach out to him here:  https://www.tomallen.media/       

So, so we'll be very calm and we'll just we'll first we'll go to our happy places and we'll take deep breaths in through the nose out through the mouth deep breaths. Right. Follow me in through the nose out through the mouth and just try to remain totally serene. Think about the five things around you that you can see that you can hear that you can touch. Hello and welcome to this very calm and collected episode of trash future podcast that you're listening to right now. Probably with white knuckles if you're in the UK and wondering why everyone in the UK is so mad if you're part of our substantial US audience. I do I say maybe loosen the grip on your penis. It's not good for it. I am Riley. I am doing an arm and you may remember me from every previous episode. I'm joined in the quarantine virtual reality zone by Alice in sunny undisclosed location.

Yeah, just like the simulations. I'm doing my best to keep everyone calm and happy and centered in themselves at this time of strife. I'm also joined by Hussein who is in his virtual reality mecca. Yeah, we're like circling around the living room like it's the Kaba and I enjoyed I enjoyed Alice's guided meditation. I thought it was very useful. Oh god, I really want a Kaba zoom background. That'd be awesome. We also have Milo undisclosed location as well. Hi, it's me Milo from yoga with Adrian.

We have Nate with you from yoga with Tim. Hi, it's me Nate first time back on for a while because I've been editing the nightmare nightmare of all the remote recordings put together. It takes a little bit of time, but I couldn't miss this one despite and I'm not joking having something of a throat injury from vaping too hard. Long time editor first time caller. And I think now joined by someone making her official appearance as being on the podcast most Eleanor Penny. I'm so honored. Yeah. Yeah, much like the overwhelming existential dreads that we're saturated in.

I am available at very short notice these days. Thank you for coming on. We're here to we're here to talk about obviously 5G and the effect that's having on all of our brains. Matt Hancock is releasing a new tracking app for the coronavirus. I think we're here to talk about that. But no, hell yeah. Now here's the thing. I we have a very tight episode today about 5G and coronavirus stuff.

So I hope we don't get sidetracked into another topic by our favorite spiked columnist who's dropped by to say a few words. Yes. I've had Ed Brendon O'Neill obviously is social distancing, but he's emailed this into me because he's been following current events with interest. So I'm going to read this out on his behalf. No, it was the leaked Labour Party report into anti-Semitism. The Stalinist Trotskyites of Ducé, North Islington were enraged that some Labour Party officials had been referring to them as Trotskyite Stalinists. But I find their outrage hard to comprehend. Surely this was merely party officials trying to use their beloved correct pronouns. Indeed.

It seems in truth their rank has stemmed from the fact that people from the sensible centrist wing of the Labour Party, which was behind successful middle of the road compromises such as the Iraq war, were refusing to assist their absolute boy Jeremy Corbyn in winning the election. But why should they? They don't agree with him and they don't like him. So why should they have to help get him elected simply because the membership of the party pays them a six-figure salary to do so? This is an infringement on their freedom of speech. And if Jeremy Corbyn and his Shakshuka Sandinistas had truly wanted to win, they would simply have defeated them in the marketplace of ideas.

The real thorny issue, though, for the Arborio Antifa of Finsbury Park, was that the report contained hard evidence that the ongoing scandal about anti-Semitism in the Labour Party was, in fact, exaggerated and actions to stop anti-Semitism had been deliberately slowed down by centrist in the party who wanted Jeremy Corbyn to look bad. The Risotto Red Army are puss with rage, like their favourite flag, that the same people who were constantly briefing the media that Jeremy Corbyn was an anti-Semite were themselves deliberately abetting anti-Semitism in the party, claiming that they can't possibly have ever truly cared about anti-Semitism at all. But this is sophistry.

What if they cared about anti-Semitism so much that they realised they had to do some in order to prevent more of it? If you can't be against something and still support it, then how could we have spent years sanctioning Iran for being a despotic Islamic theocracy while selling arms to Saudi Arabia? The loony left hasn't even considered this due to their narrow worldview. Indeed, the fact that the quinoa KGB want to talk about this at all now, when we should be focusing on what films Boris is watching during his heroic recovery, is selfish. How can it be that during the election they bemoaned that every question Corbyn was asked was about anti-Semitism, and yet now they themselves want to ask questions about it,

just because hard evidence of a deliberate bad faith conspiracy against them has been revealed. It's all too convenient. If there is a lesson to learn from this for leftists, it is this. Believing that things can be better or less cruel is pointless and a moral failing. Having beliefs and principles will never defeat the powerful minds of centrism who have realised that politics isn't about believing in things, but about doing all sorts of underhanded skull-duggery to undermine the possibility of anything good happening in order to make sure that nothing happens instead and being paid £100,000 to do so.

That is the free market. The loony left refused to accept they were beaten fair and square, allowing only their revisionist narrative simply because it is based on factual evidence that 50% of anti-Semitism complaints were made by one man. We do not know the exact number of complaints they allege he made, but dear reader, I suspect it was 1,984. Thank you. Belisema.

Oh my. We love to see it. Can I just say before we start that like when there was another Brendam column from last week where like a genuine one in spite where he uses the term chattering classes? Yeah. Very special moment. He's becoming more like Milo's Brendon with every passing day. It's true.

It's like the prestige. Milo has a deep profit. Have you ever seen them in the same room? Right, I haven't. Have anyone ever... Brendan and I are going to have to pile a yay go together. Has anyone ever measured Milo's skull to see if it is indeed as big as Brendon's cartoon? So, what we are talking about today is we are talking about the leaked report,

actually not just on anti-Semitism, but anti-Semitism forms a big part of it, on the factions within the Labour Party that worked against the leader of the opposition's office throughout the... From 2015 until 2018. This document was leaked, although apparently Starmer had it for a week and... Jesus. Too much about it. Now I'm even angrier.

And apparently was going to promote one of the people named as one of the active conspirators against Labour to the position that Jenny Formby currently holds. Awesome. Awesome. Great. Cool. Anyway. Fantastic.

Love to see that. So, what we're looking at is the relationship between the leader's office, Labour headquarters, which deals with things like campaigning and party strategy, and which includes the governance of the political unit, which is where... Yeah, the Labour deep state. Yeah, effectively, which is where these complaints go. Which is where complaints about people, so like complaints about racism, for example, or sexual harassment or whatever, they tend to go there.

And so, when we say Labour anti-Semitism report, we mean really one part of a much larger report that's being talked about in the media largely as the anti-Semitism report. I think about it as... Yeah, and it's the report that was going to the Equality and Human Rights Commission. That was what it was for. Yeah, it was supposed to be concluded as an annex. And the word Gata got out that they had decided not to, that Labour lawyers, basically lawyers for the Labour Party had said that it was outside the scope of investigation, but then

once it leaked, some other potential motives appeared out of the ether. Very interesting. I love that. I love that brand new euphemism for a complete fucking car crash outside the scope of the investigation. So, what we're going to talk about is the contents of this report, which are all about how Labour HQ essentially worked to keep Labour from being a functioning party and by stopping its...

The handling of complaints, by misdirecting funds during elections, and by essentially being completely horrible to everyone there. The cliff-notes of this episode are who would have thought that being proven right would make us all so angry. But before we get into the contents of the report, I'd like to start with a little note on how the report was leaked, which is that it basically, a cache of WhatsApp messages that was from a WhatsApp group inside Labour HQ, this unelected, paid party bureaucrat organization, was accidentally forwarded by one of the Labour HQ records to their own

work email, therefore putting it in the scope of the investigation into how Labour was handling its anti-Semitism issues. Whoops. How do I open up? Oh, spaghetti or... Yeah, literally. I can't believe they won, and we got outflanked until the very last moment by a bunch of boomers who were just trying to plot on their work phones.

The political distinctions are no longer those between left and right, between those who can and cannot unlock a PDF. Yes, we're literally... They're all tapping on their shitty phones, thinking they're Malcolm Tucker and just inadvertently sending the entire plot to everyone with a Labour Party email address. Awesome. Typing my memoirs line by line into the Google search bar and pressing enter, thinking that it's saving them.

All I'm going to say is that we're now... We're all owned and we're all corn cobs, but there is something kind of poetic about how much young leftists who understand tech and social media really invested that into trying to get a better government and trying to get Corbyn into power. And it was all undone by a bunch of guys who were trying to take photos of their arse and kept sending it to their working mouth. Yeah, that is literally true, but it's on the other hand, it's so funny... We just got owned in everywhere.

Yeah, but it's so funny that you have this perfect plan to unseat Corbyn. It's beautiful and it's intricacy and it's the perfect heist and as they're walking away from the casino, they just fucking leak all of the emails. The most, from hell's heart, Seamus Milne stabs at the Labour Flutters. I think we need to answer an urgent question, which is why the paid party apparatus of the Labour and Democratic Party, none of them can use computers and constantly unveil all of their disdainful and plots against the left by accidentally opening email attachments. All of these people were sending emails like, ah, all of the Corbyn people, they're so unprofessional.

They don't wear ties, they don't wear bras, and all of this kind of vulgar abuse, making fun of their hair and the way that they smell. So Jeremy Corbyn should have worn a bra, that's all they're saying. Yeah, that's true, he should have done that. At least one, yes. Yeah, and then for all of that, at least they fucking knew how to fucking BCC. So, yep, that's it. Hey, Jack, how do I open PDF?

It sank both, and you know what, and don't forget, by the way, this did nothing to the people in control of the Democratic Party. They got some concessions on super delegates, and that's it. So don't expect many concessions from this. This is basically just you being told that, yep, you're right, the Labour Party was trying to destroy Corbyn's chances of being elected by basically like being a Leninist, by almost taking like Leninist or Trotskyist tactics of infiltrating and taking over the organization from the inside.

It's so embarrassing. It's so embarrassing. I cannot stress enough how bad it is, right? If you read this, some of the stuff in there, some of the things that they were saying, stuff that like a year ago, I would have been like, ah, that's a little bit crank for me. That's a little bit squawk box or a little bit the canary to be like, ah, the fucking deep state and just sending WhatsApp messages, being like, oh, the Corbyn people look ugly. It's really challenging my ability to twist reality back into some kind of sensible shape

and like, because the horrifying or a boros of like self perpetuating madness that is currently going on because I've spent like the past year basically doing anti-Semitism awareness trainings, a lot of which talk about the language of conspiracy theories and how that often aligns with traditional longstanding tropes that feed into anti-Semitic narratives that a lot of people don't realize anti-Semitic narratives. And I feel really, really undermined by the fact that there was actual fucking conspiracy going on this whole time and not just by the most incompetent people in the world. Yeah, apart from everything else, it's just horrible optics.

Oh, wait, sorry, lads. Hang on. I've just got this email from Ian McNichol. Apparently, if I don't forward it to 15 people in the next 20 minutes, I'm not going to have sex for six years. So we're going to go through this and there's quite a bit here. So we're going to start with some of the stuff, the rationale, the disdain for policies, elected officials and members that are being held by the people at Labour HQ. In a section I've titled, a hip refresh of the party for the 90s, which must happen forever or else. So... Things can only get better.

And how true they were. So basically, first of all, the Labour staffers quoted in the report are incredibly contemptuous of a mild rise in corporation tax, for example. Or they're incredibly contemptuous and afraid, in fact, of doing things like nationalizing rail, whereas two-thirds of the public were for these things. And so two-thirds of the public would be dismissed by this group of Labour staffers as unelectable trots who only care about ideological purity and not, you know, getting into power. Yeah, there's a weird monomaniacal thing where they call everything a trot.

And it's so weird to call Corbyn, who is like a kind of like a moderate social democrat, a trot, is like it's so 70s factional, even from the Labour Party. It's like all of these people are feverishly wanking themselves off to Neil Kinnock's conference speech, where he talks about a Labour council, and it's just the world has gone past them. And yet they're still able to exercise all of this power. Yeah, apart from weirdly, when they've got diarrhea, they're referred to it as the Stalin's. And they're not just contemptuous of these policies and contemptuous of the electorate that seems to, like when polled, wats them.

They also have a real hard on for the idea of war. So here is a quote. This is the Labour HQ's reaction to Corbyn's speech after the Manchester Arena attack. So to be clear, Labour HQ is a different, it's a different sub-organisation in a different building than like the leader of the opposition's office. So they were like a party within a party. So this is their reaction to Corbyn's speech after the Manchester Arena attacks, which as we recall, was a popular speech.

And which was about, hey, let's not use this as a pretext to go bomb somewhere. He, with his staffer says, my fears are that, A, the speech won't go down badly because of the large groundswell of ill-informed opposition to Western interventions. And B, that they will use that poll to claim they were on course to win and then Manchester happened. And whether or not J.C. goes, lots of the membership will buy that argument. So just look at that first one. I think that this speech about how we shouldn't do war won't go down as badly as it deserves to, thanks to the large groundswell of ill-informed opposition to Western intervention.

The Manchester Arena bomber, Salman Abedi, was, he was shipped to Libya by MI6 and then returned to the UK. That sounds pretty ill-informed, Alice. You love to see that. I mean, famously, ISIS have taken a very firm line on Ariana Grande. But I mean, he literally, he was walked through the airport coming and going by British intelligence officers. But that in order to facilitate a Western intervention, just speechless, speechless. This is why I'm actually actively a little bit jealous of the level of brain rot

that is rampant through the ranks of the Labour right. Because I feel like if I was so infested with the same cantankerous worms of hatred and forgetfulness, I would have a much better time. Because this is like vacuous psychopathology, that the cause of everything that's wrong is people having ideas. Like imagine the comfort of like a collective mind that's wiped so spotless of any fucking thought or content that you can just like, luxurious in the idea that any change is bad. Therefore, everything must currently be fine. It's like some weird mathematical puzzle where like two negatives make a positive.

And if you're opposing the opposition, well, then what does that make? It makes your fucking arsehole. And that's just maths. But the problem is right. Like two of our American listeners, you will be intimately familiar with the like the psychogeography of the West Wing Lib, right? We had kind of a disservice here in that the equivalence for our Libs was the thick of it. A show in which Malcolm Tucker, a government spin doctor, just kind of is the smart guy who abuses everyone around him in a like an amusing way. And all of these people think that they're Malcolm Tucker and they think that everyone else is a kind of puppet for them to deploy sick owns on.

And they can never fucking land them either, but they still try and they tell people to like cock off behind their back and private messages. It's awesome. Oh, yeah. The level of insults in this report is just dire. Oh, you're a fucking cock waffle in it. Well, it's basic because they all watched the thick of it. And then they were like, oh, pube head. I bet Malcolm Tucker would call someone a pube head. And then lo and behold, they just seem like they're eight.

And yet we had a bunch of eight year olds running the party bureaucracy. And also they looked at a show that was consciously and purposefully about how shallow and vacuous and pointless and insular and naval gazing politics have become through the Blair years and were like, yes, that another one. Yes, exactly. It really is just like the thick of it. In fact, I think that's one of Simon Hedges. Simon Hedges is best tweets. So here's another tweet about just sort of contemptuousness for reality where one staffer who then went on to go work at people's vote said, what are we expecting after the Chilcot inquiry? A lot of abuse for pro war MPs.

Oh, no. Yeah. Hopefully. But what a dam, the much maligned war lobby. I'm assuming that the other three horsemen have their lobbies. Yeah. Things have been bad for the pestilence lobby recently. There's a reason why these people, right, love the thick of it and not in the loop, which is the movie that Yanucci made as a sequel to it in which these cast of bumbling idiots start the Iraq war.

And for a brief moment, the like horror and futility of what they've done overtakes them. Of that doesn't, I think, ever occur to them. They live in the thick of it forever. That's hauntology. I didn't find that one as realistic because in in the loop, one of them gets laid. So here's, here's what I'm imagining. It's a TV commercial, soft music comes on and there is long lingering video footage of like a bombed out refugee camp and you're told that for less than the cup, for less than the price of a cup of coffee a day, you can make sure that this keeps happening. Support a pro war MP.

Support the pro war MP or you're a cum teapot. I love it. I am fascinated by that psychology. I do, you know, it's awful and disgusting, but I kind of get logically speaking, being in favor of individual wars, but just the delightful, chaotic abandon of just being like generally in favor of war. Just to fuck around and find out. Because because being in favor of things that are good is unrealistic. So you have to be in favor of the best of the things that are bad and that never is called being a grown up. It's very British, like our politicians are fundamentally insufficiently promissory and therefore they must perish.

It's like extremely British. Not even in British. It's extremely English. So I'm going to go on a little bit here. They also not only do they have contempt for everything you want in terms of say just a slightly cheaper train fare or not to be involved in a war. They also wait, they have contempt for feet pics. They have contempt for they have contempt for all of it. They also had an incredible amount of sort of sneering contempt for everybody who is involved at the leaders office.

For example, one of them saying that they were going to inform a get labor hostile journalist named Michael Crick that Diane Abbott was crying in a loo because of all the death threats she received in order to make fun of her. Diane Abbott, they're the first female black MP. Yes, that's right. And yeah, the most senior minority figure in the Corbyn leadership. Yes, that's right. I assume the death threats were from all her constituents who are really upset that she wasn't generally pro war. Yeah, she wasn't a pro war enough MP. Yeah.

So, you know, they're for question mark, I don't know, just to keep like the government stupid and cruel so they can feel like grown ups and Malcolm Tucker. I am lost for words. I genuinely think that any transformative project in this country will not be complete unless Diane Abbott is allowed to slap at least one person a day, like three of these consequences. It is a very least that we owe her. Yeah. Diane Abbott people's commissar for sure. Diane Abbott should be the only person allowed to drink on the tube. Take all the powers that currently are invested in the police and give them all to Diane Abbott.

No. She should have a taser. We should give Diane Abbott a taser. But she's not allowed to delegate them. No. It's just her personally. Another example. When discussing a well attended rally of the Labour Party campaign in 2017 in the Union Chapel in Islington staff joked about how funny it would be to quote knock out some trots with some truncheons or water cannons.

And that's something Alice said earlier. They are obsessed with trots and they love the violent imagery of the thick of it. I don't think any of these any of these weaklings could actually, you know, do anything. I think they just love fantasizing about it. Like they're all like hiding behind an enormous clipboard and like asking the police to please do some violence. The main problem with the report is not that these people can't bench. I like that attitude. Yeah.

If they had got more swole, we would respect them more. You can't send you can't send a what's that message like truncheons out lads. Let's knock some trots, which is verbatim by the way. And then like look like you're a hundred and ten pounds soaking wet. Fuck off. That's why people don't talk shit to Aaron Bostani because he's jacked. Exactly. We will only respect you if you have like distinct pectoral muscles.

So they're obsessed with trots viewing everyone to the left of Gordon Brown as a trot and referring to operations to purge the membership as trot bashing or trot hunting. And when certain members of the labor right got too cozy with Corbin, they were shut out of the group and referred to as trots. I would also add that when they hired a person who I suppose I can't name, but he was the person who was primarily in charge with assessing complaints against members and obviously is heavily implicated with regard to how they handled complaints of antisemitism. He was chosen because he had experience working in printing flyers for national headquarters. I'm not kidding. His job was printing printing flyers. He was chosen over John Lansman's son who has a law degree and is a practicing barrister because primarily for factional reasons. And when he was hired, he was told in his initial interview or is in his is on the job training that his job was trot hunting.

Who? That's it. Great. And so as you can tell, that was what led their focus as far as who's behavior to police, who to kick out, who to actually take serious when it comes to punishing people. It was supporters of Jeremy Corbin, people who use the word Blairite as a pejorative, people who- Warmonger. Who's people who would have been to Mike Gates for supporting the war. Yeah.

If you said war criminal, I think, was it as specifically prescribed term? We love war crimes, but we don't like language. Tough on war crimes, tough on the causes of war crimes. The thing is, you have to hate the war crime, not the war criminal. There are no war crimes really. There are only war mistakes. If only someone had hugged a hoodie for Marine. So what I find very interesting though, if you look at all of this, right?

The activity of an unelected group of people pulling all the handles of party power and labor HQ, who were doing so without regard for what the membership or the leadership or indeed the electorate actually wanted. Who were all nostalgic for the politics of a bygone age, just at this age, happened to be the 1990s, and endlessly splitting with one another over various minor factional and ideological disagreements about like whether Blair said, you know, peace and freedom in the Middle East or peace through freedom in the Middle East. They are trotskiists. They are trotskiists. They're just liberal trotskiists. He's doing the turn. You're doing like, you're doing a ZZ thing where you're like liberal communists.

They are basically liberal trotskiists. They're trotskiists for the glory of Blair. That is absolutely trotskiist shit. I mean, on the level of secrecy, the one they've accidentally slightly glossed Blair with a tiny pattern of respectability in that he was the only one who actually came out and said it. He's like, yes, I hate him. I don't want Corbyn to win. I don't want Labour to win. And I would prefer a Conservative government.

I was like, oh, um, it's amazing. I guess, you know, at least he has the kind of like the honesty. We're like, okay, we know our enemy. We can treat this as the factional war that it is. Instead of counting it for five years under the umbrella of like electability and like party unity. Every single day, every single week we were hearing like, oh, you can't do anything unless you're in government. And it turns out that that was precisely what they thought, but they didn't want to do anything. So they wanted to by no means get elected in case they were actually forced to make some changes.

And yeah, the fact that I've, I don't know, it feels it feels personal because, you know, the anti-semitism thing. And it also feels like weirdly, incidentally personal to me in that I've kind of been like richly humiliated on national television multiple times by people who are like, but what about Tom Watson's legitimate concerns about anti-semitism in the past? Just reading through the report, is he just kind of watching that just like for years rock hard for electoral disaster and not really giving it like, does he have any emotional connection to what that actually means? Or does he have this, oh God, this weird, this weird pathology where you like think that Jewish people are like less important and they're like, you know, they can be used as political cannon fodder and like, maybe their lives are less valuable. But God, you know, if only we had a term for that. I can't believe personally that Tom Watson found the time to be involved in all this kind of like internecine conspiracies while at the same time getting his level two gym instructor application. Just doing push-ups and each one, he's just thinking about how much he fucking hates Corbyn. So basically what the messages suggest is that the staff in Labour HQ, the paid staff, decided amongst themselves to show up to work and not do anything for the years that they were there and that Corbyn was in power.

I wouldn't be surprised if this extends into the Miliband years as well, but they've got way more intense with Corbyn where they basically didn't work to rule. They'd come in, they'd play Dilbert's desktop games for eight hours and then they'd leave. So this includes, for example, not handling disciplinary complaints that are brought to them or intentionally muddying up the process by receiving complaints and just sitting on them or giving no further action to like allegations of like serious anti-Semitism. The worst stuff is the nephatism, right? Like, inevitably there's a core group of a couple of sympathetic MPs who can put in a word for someone or against someone. And this is the most damning thing, the most damning individual thing in here is when Ken Livingston decided to like go fully mask off reprehensible anti-Semite and Corbyn is on record in this as wanting him expelled. The report says, quote, by the time a new General Secretary, Jenny Formby, took over party HQ in 2018, there was a backlog of disciplinary cases that had been ongoing often for years with little to no progress and with information on their status and content scattered across different systems and central and regional offices. Some of these were high profile cases awaiting decision at any C or NCC level. There was further a hidden backlog of people reported to the GLU for anti-Semitism, which was never dealt with or were mishandled, many of which would be re-reported subsequently or picked up as it was leaving. The idea of them just doing like HMRC call center shit, like you just phone up like, oh, I'd like to talk to the anti-Semitism people. They're like, oh, it's a long way. And then they put you on hold for three hours and the hold music is limp.

One of the things that people like Corbyn partisans said was that Corbyn was himself personally a dedicated fighter against anti-Semitism and that's entirely borne out by the report. There's all of these cases where him or his office have gone to these sort of party bureaucrats with wanting somebody expelled for various acts of anti-Semitism and it's just been like they've just kind of ignored them. Nate, I think you had an example about this, right? So basically Ken Livingstone continued to say anti-Semitic things and Jeremy Corbyn made a statement and he basically said, I'm going to read two paragraphs of his statement. He said, it's deeply disappointing that despite his long record of standing up to racism, Ken has failed to acknowledge or apologize for the hurt he has caused. Many people are understandably upset that he continued to make offensive remarks which could open him to further disciplinary action. Since initiating the disciplinary process, I have not interfered with it and respect the independence of the party's disciplinary bodies, but Ken's subsequent comments and actions will now be considered by the National Executive Committee after representations from party members, which is to say, have a new investigation.

This led to saying, in a chat, got a crazy tale for you. Apparently, Kerry, as is Kerry Murphy, has been telling Shadow Cabinet members that I've orchestrated the Ken situation so that Ken Livingstone makes provocative comments and got his people on a panel to make a soft decision all in order to embarrass Jeremy Corbyn and create a crisis. Basically said, this is completely untrue. However, earlier in 2017, the same people had basically tried to stonewall any additional investigation into Ken Livingstone and as a quote, said, John McDonnell wants a statement from you now regarding the process for anything else with Ken. As we said, no, standard reactive lines. And later in the chat says, surely Jeremy Corbyn needs to be the driver of get Ken, which is to suggest that unless Corbyn continued to push for it publicly, they were not going to do anything further.

It's a genius tactic specifically related to Ken Livingstone, because obviously there's been an infinite progress like within the Jewish community. I kind of hate that label, but whatever about, you know, about labor and feminism. But the one thing, the one and only thing that everyone always agrees with is that Ken Livingstone needs to be flung into the out reaches of deep space. And so just by stymying that one case, they could do an untold amount of damage and do what really is the most efficient thing in terms of undermining support, which is not just, you know, write him off completely, but try and sow enough suspicion and enough doubt that it splits the left amongst itself. And I think the thing to be really, really clear about here is that this is not an excavation of the Labour Party. Like there are some people, including like Chris Williamson and his, you know, his athelites,

who clearly without reading the parts of the report that were personally about them have been like, yes, total vindication. It was a witch hunt all along. No, what this report is, let's be very clear, is a clear demonstration of the many interlocking, overlapping forms of structural and institutional racism within the Labour Party, where classically the misuse of the term and the idea of anti-semitism is used to mobilize and justify rank Islamophobia and rank anti-blackness among staff members. And the fact that anti-semitism has been so successfully like cleaved off from other forms of racism and the efficacy of that tactic is so painfully visible in the way that people who are appointing themselves the zars of anti-semitism. Wasn't that just the czar? That was just all czars. You know, are just the same ones hounding Diane Abbott and they see kind of no cognitive dissonance therein.

Interesting that. There's also just one of the most extreme cases, I think, is there was a Jewish, I would just define him as anti-Zionist, he had at times gotten into arguments in person with members of the Jewish Labour Movement. There was one instance where he was basically warned for hackling a JLM speaker at an event was suspended and then had a suspended suspension lifted for anti-semitism. But it turned in under investigation. There was like this is the one instance in which it seems as though the leader's office did intervene because he was a constituent of Corbins and there he really hadn't done anything anti-semitic. I mean, he threw the review they realized this had been done in error, but he had been a member of a Facebook page called Palestine Live, but hadn't really been involved in it. Corbin had been added as an administrator back when you could do that if you wanted to, but Corbin had never interacted with the page at all. However, the person who founded the page, like one of the main moderators of the page, as I understand it, this is citing the report had basically shared articles claiming that Jewish people were responsible for eugenics,

shared articles saying that 9-11 ISIS and the Paris attacks were all done by Mossad, shared articles saying the Rothschilds control all banking and media, sharing articles saying that it's okay to deny the Holocaust. And the mad thing about this is the guy who was suspended and then had it lifted had basically had shared some things that you would describe as an elegant, but he was sharing a post from Norman Finkelstein, or he was complaining about an article in Haaretz where a member of the Likud Party in Israel had claimed that basically that Zionism and Judaism were one in the same. Nothing he had said would meet the guidelines of being anti-Semitic, but he was a very avid Corbin supporter and had been flagged by a number of people who were making complaints. So he was nearly kicked out of the party permanently, but he was suspended for a while. Meanwhile, this woman that I'm describing, the actual moderator of the page or the creator of the page who had shared very blatantly anti-Semitic things for years, guess when she was finally kicked out of the party?

Don't even have to guess the month. Guess the year. Was it this year? 20 fucking 20. Yes. And this was flagged in 2017. Jesus. And there are three other people.

I strongly recommend people read the Palestine Live section of the report, even if you don't read the other parts. And you should read the other parts because holy shit, you talk about, like you said, misogyny, racism, Islamophobia, all these things. Specifically, you have examples of people, one person where he, like I said, he might have said some inelegant things, but nothing he said was anti-Semitic. He's also Jewish. He's also the child of Holocaust survivors. He was suspended from the party, whereas people basically going on talking about how Holocaust denial is fine. And Mossad did 9-11 were only suspended when it legitimately like passed the 2019 election when they were finally getting through this caseload. The 2019 election being, of course, the deciding moment where we finally settled on the fact that Mossad did not, in fact, do not work and so could put it.

The electorate have spoken. Yeah. So I think it's important here to say, right? Anti-Semitism in the Labour Party was real and it was deeply embedded. The problem is that what this report reveals is that the effort to combat it has been a deeply cynical, deeply unequal, deeply sabotaged deliberately way of doing that in a way that was calculated to advance these factional goals of not doing even like the mildest social democracy using very real bigotry and hurt and harm as just these kind of pawns in all of these people doing their Malcolm Tucker lapping. And I think it's probably worth, and I'm sorry, I'll be really quick on this. I think it's probably worth also recognising that the long-term effect of this is really just like backfired on any sort of real attempt to combat anti-Semitism in the Labour Party.

Of course. Also because like all the fucking, what you call it, the conspiracy theories that we'd all been told, oh no, it's not happening. This is a conspiracy theory. Like, you know, if you don't want to accept that like under Corbyn anti-Semitism is not only right but encouraged then, you know, you deserve to lose. And then we see this report and it's like, oh fuck that not only were we right, but like the cost of it has been like a complete disenfranchising of leftist activists, many of whom are going to leave the party. And in the meantime, you've done nothing constructive to like combat this like virus in politics generally, right? Yeah, that's why it's so dangerous is that having been gaslit like this and having it be provable, be verifiable, be in black and white like this, you may as well just become a crank. You may as well just start burning down 5G masts.

But also, I mean, Eleanor, I imagine this has happened to you as well, but I mean, I'm not British, I'm a British citizen. Burning down 5G masts, absolutely. I'm not from this country, but I can't tell you. I mean, if I talk about anything related to the Labour Party on Twitter, it is a daily occurrence that I get called a self-hating Jew by people who look like fucking sentient ham sculptures. That happens every fucking day to me. That is not so sure whatsoever. Not at all, exactly. I think calling them sentient has given them a bit too much credit.

Sentient in the way that like masts is sentient in like dense enough proportions. But I imagine, though, Eleanor, this has happened to you as well. I've had people say things. I don't know if they're Labour Party members, but they're notionally either Corbyn supporters or self-described socialists. You know, things bringing up Israel for some fucking reason. Asking as soon as they find out whether or not I'm Jewish, asking me what I think about Palestine and the occupation. That kind of stuff happens and a lot of that I feel like could be combated with better political education. And in some cases, people should be fucking kicked out because this is their drum to beat.

They're going to be anti-Semitic. But I can't describe how often you see this constant wielding of this to silence people, to tell you that you're morally wrong for supporting the Labour Party under Corbyn. And it turns out that the people who were trying the most to solve the problem apparently was Jeremy Corbyn's leadership team. And the people who didn't want to do anything about it were like you described Tom Watson and other folks who have appointed themselves these like, I don't know, like moral avatars. Because apparently they're standing up against, you know, the true racism. When in fact, apparently you could be as anti-fucking-Semitic as you wanted to as long as you were just being anti-Semitic and were a member of the Labour Party, you didn't actually get involved with Labour Left activism.

Yeah, I mean like in many ways that I don't. There are many kind of liminal cases that you see in the report which are like, okay, clearly this, you know, this is anti-Semitic. But I can see how this person might just kind of need educating because there is like a complete dearth of education on the history of colonialism and the history of racism in this country, which all of which feed into these conversations. And a lot of the language and tools and tropes of anti-Semitism feel purposefully invisible because we are so used to them in many ways. But, you know, so there is a task ahead of us and yes, it's big, but like it can be done as long as the people in charge of it don't, you know, meet every report of anti-Semitism with, yes, excellent, more shit to fling at my opponent because they are totally unserious, total hacks, total charlatans and have clearly shown their hand by cheerleading on

the possibly the most right-wing and far-right-alive government that this country has ever seen. And being that we are talking from the British Isles, that is a pretty bloody high bar. Like the idea that these people, you know, ever had any kind of shred of moral integrity is beyond me. And particularly, particularly galling is this famed innocence of reporters and lobby journalists who, you know, a few months ago were fascinated by the internal machinations of the Labour Party and, you know, salivating over the idea of having the latest scoop of the chaos that ravaging the Labour Party. Now they're like, well, you know, there are bigger things to think about. It's like, OK, if your friends and colleagues have been caught conspiring to piss into the open mouths of pensioners, and you have previously convinced curiosity and even support for pissing in the open mouths of pensioners,

you can't meet an 850-page dossier about the revelations of the depth of pension and mouth-pissing amongst your friends and colleagues and go, well, I don't know what that's about. Clearly not everyone's signed up for the not-pissing-in-mouth strategy. What have we come to? This is not my favourite reaction, though. My favourite reaction is on the, like, let's say, more sort of partisan wing of this, of the Labour right, who have just gone straight to actually leaking this report is incredibly illegal and everybody named in it has been doxxed to her mass and white supremacists at the same time and I'll see all of you in court. It's just like, yeah, great, cool. Do you want to, like, talk about the cut? No, absolutely not. I love to bring up, I love when I've been massively exposed as a gigantic, like, fucking piece of shit crook

and then what I do is bring up the rules in order to exonerate myself. I think the thing that's most galling to me is that a lot, like, almost all of the people who, like, most cynically used this within the Labour Party were not themselves Jewish, knew almost nothing about Judaism. I'm still thinking about the Mary Cray, I think it was Mary Cray tweet where she talked about the Judas Saber that Corbyn went to. It's still up. I used to love Judas Saber. That's a great Judas. But, like, yeah, you're absolutely fine as, like, a subtype of British person, the guy who, like, has a column and thinks that in a very real way he is more Jewish than a Jewish person because...

I really wanted to bring that up and ask Eleanor for comments on this, too, because, like I said, still trying to understand the depths of the British psyche, but this weird phenomenon of British Gentiles, cosplaying as Jewish or identifying as, like, honorary Jews and doing so in this bizarrely kind of patronizing, pastiche way where you... I get yelled at for not tweeting enough about Klesmer or fucking, I don't know, attending Shul. And I'm like, okay, but I don't, like, none of you are Jewish and you admit this. It's that Ellie Valley drawing of Meghan McCain, that refugee girl who said such things about us Jews. It turns out that that Ellie Valley drawing was in charge of certain elements of the Labour Party disciplinary process.

But, like, I pulled an old historical article from Labour List by John Landsman from May 2019. This goes back to the Ken Livingston thing. He says, whereas Jeremy was criticised over Ken Livingston's never-ending disciplinary process, it was the Labour right who appeared to have been responsible for delays and Jeremy's staff who urged that Newman material be investigated. In another case, the email show was left-wing momentum supporters, momentum renders, rather, and Labour International who organised a petition and lobbied Ian McNichol to take action and suspend. So I'm just bringing it back on topic here a little bit, but the left was trying to make the Labour Party a less anti-Semitic body.

That's what we were trying to do. And what I want to do is go beyond just the moral argument about this, obviously, like this, and go to the materialist one. What is the materialist argument for this? Can I just invite everyone to reflect for a moment on the fact that this is what happened when the Labour Party had a left-wing and Christian English, painfully English sometimes leader. Can you just imagine what those WhatsApps would have been like under Ed Miliband? Because it took about two days at the absolute maximum for the collective psyche of everyone from the right of Labour

to the absolute cesspits of the far, far right to go from good riddance to anti-Semite Corbyn to Ed Miliband's back, look at his big due nose. He hates Britain like his due dad. Yeah, the depth of the poverty is hard for me to wrap my mind around and genuinely quite upset. I'm still laughing at the cartoonist after being called out for drawing Ed Miliband with a massively hooked nose. It doesn't look anything like Ed Miliband's nose, posting huge close-up photos of Ed Miliband saying, look at his nose! Do you see the resistance?

I love producing my phrenological receipts. Here's the thing, that's why I'm saying let's talk about the materialist element of this because we could talk about the sheer sort of infuriating hypocrisy all day. We literally could. Yeah, we can and believe me, we're going to. That's 800 pages. Riley, I have to interrupt you though because I'm sure it's your timeline. You haven't tweeted bagel or strimal ever and I know that report is valid,

but you know what, it wasn't released correctly and dogs can't play basketball. What is the materialist underpinning to decide, no, the 90s are forever, we're going to do Tony Blair's policies for the Labour Party, whether the membership in the country and the leadership and many of the MPs want it or not. That's sort of asked towards Eleanor a bit because she's correct to be about Mark's before. Clearly that's stung. That was like two years ago. I really get quite a lot of existential thrill at the fact that that warmed your way into its consciousness like, damn.

Yeah, it was a real black eye for Riley when he confused Carl Groucho and Harpo. I mean, I think like we are, you know, we're in a time of monsters. The oldest dying, the newest struggling to be born, etc. Rija Gramsci, I haven't, but I'm sure it's great. Basically, what we're seeing at the moment is a clash between like different forms of the way in which late capitalism is struggling to adapt to the multiple overlapping crises that fundamentally challenge the way it has been operating over the past certainly 40 years, but also 200 years. And that's a challenge of demand. Obviously, climate crisis, aging crises.

We have, I don't like to call it a migrant crisis because that's very dehumanizing, but we've got like unprecedented levels of like human movement throughout the globe. And of course, we've got a declining profit values of much of like many large corporations and many smaller corporations are what is referred to in this country as zombie corporations, which is aka they are only really kept alive by short term liquidity and debt and soon that debt bubble is going to burst, especially if the government calls back those loans at least it's given out to keep people afloat from the coronavirus crisis. But what we're looking at here, and what we're looking at here, I think is, yes, of course, it's materialist because everything has a materialist explanation, because we are good Marxists here. But I think there is something kind of, there's a lot that can't be explained by simply a materialist understanding of it, because a materialist understanding would assume that hegemony adapts to the conditions on the ground,

whereas the kind of morbid conditions of centrism are revealed by their singular inability to adapt to the conditions on the ground. They are being challenged to evolve or die, essentially. And throughout the world, like traditional basis of like centrism and people who pride themselves on being the stalwarts of bureaucratic capitalist realism. The end of history has come. Politics is just kind of shifting box A into tab B forever because nothing will need to be changed substantively anymore. Those people are getting absolutely bodied, bodied at the polling booths. And realistically, they have no answers to these crises. And so I think, yes, of course, we need to have a materialist understanding to take account of like what that gap is.

But part of that needs to be about how the sort of malingering moneyed classes who benefited from this system and who were appointed or appointed themselves, the stewards and guardians of it, are so psychologically, politically and ideologically inept at adapting because precisely what they were there to do was void all politics of ideological framework. And so it's not really surprising that they have no ideological wiggle room to explain what happens when the world doesn't look like what they expected to look like. When actually people actually maybe like the idea of nationalizing trains and things like that. No, it's really perverse, right? You have to be like, no, we do more Iraq war because that's when I personally was happiest and most successful. And so that's when everybody else must have those associations. Yeah, only real 90s kids will remember.

Well, one thing's becoming increasingly clear that the global economy is entering what we call the Swin Zone. Riley, you were describing having a party leadership and a sort of party bureaucracy that's so vehemently opposed to not just the left leadership, but legitimately in opposition to policies that pull with basically plurality across the entire country. Opposed to things that are actually more centrist, if you want to call it that, ideas in terms of policy. It's basically like having a party that you can join voluntarily and you can vote in elections, but no matter what, you're still on the German wings flight where the guy intentionally crashes it. And it's also just this maddening, the whole experience has been just completely maddening from start to finish. If you support progressive and anti-racist politics, you're somehow an anti-Semite for reasons which were never fully disclosed.

And then now you get to this point where the centrist will say things like, oh, well, you're all maligned Tony Blair, but he got elected. And it's like, yeah, in 1997, things have changed since 1997. Yeah, they've gotten better. Yeah, it's like if we got involved in a fucking war with Germany now going like, well, you know what we need to do by precedent is produce 400,000 bright red uniforms and Henry Martini rifles. That would seem to be the response. So I want to move on a little bit just conscious of time here away from sort of handling of internal disciplinary matters.

So in 2017, aside from just generally wishing that Labour would lose by elections and lose elections and lose polling, like all those people, by the way, who were cheering in 2019 when we lost like Jess Phillips laughing. We know why now because there were lots of people like that in the party. So what we get to in 2017 is Labour HQ created once again a second general election campaign that was hidden from the larger Labour Party. And what they did was they were diverting money away from targeted marginal seats in 2017, focusing on bolstering right wing allies in safe seats with the intention being lose the 2017 election outright and force a leadership election where they were planning to put Tom Watson to the position of power as leader. So then you jacked Tom Watson.

I have some examples. I have some examples of this that weren't in the report, but I sort of went to some people in different CLPs and found this out that Chuck Ramona's Streatham CLP claimed they received far too much money in 2017 for a candidate with a huge majority who ended up leaving the party. Whereas in Plymouth, Luke Pollard, who is you at best soft left but was still too much of a trot for these people, he lost by only 500 votes in 2015 but received almost no funding in 2017. And when he asked for some, he was referred to as a lost cause and he won in 2017 and 19 anyway. What a weird coincidence.

Oh, strange how this keeps happening over and over again. The one that really fucked me up is Emma Dent Code because she was the MP for the constituency in which Grenfell Tower was and she lost a very winnable election largely because the fucking the Lib Dems were able to split the vote, right? And she lost by a very, very narrow margin. And if we watched on election night, one of the things that was so draining was it was clearly so fucking horrible for her personally. And I try not to get too personal in the political, but I really did feel for her. But that was a Labour MP in a seat that badly needed a Labour MP just out of anywhere in the country. And in her campaign, we find out was not just sabotaged by fucking like the likes of Joe Swinson or whoever, but from within her own party.

Yeah. Well, it was sabotaged in 2017 by the internal bureaucracy of the Labour Party, but by just again failing to do anything about it. But I have a copy here from Novara, in fact, where Emma Dent Code wrote an article. She says, four days, four days after the 2017 election, when the atrocity of the Grenfell Tower fire ripped through my neighborhood, I was finally sent help from McNichol's office, it having been denied to me before. However, it quickly became clear that this was not help that I've requested because I needed assistance with my casework team or struggling to help all those impacted by the fire, but rather someone the general secretary had sent to police me. I was going out every day, mostly on my own or with a couple of colleagues. There was no feeling at all at that time that I was in any kind of danger. However, on day three, while I was addressing a crowd of local people, including a group of very distressed young men, my helper attempted to drag me away saying, Ian McNichol says you must get out of here. Ma'am, we have tactically ascertained that you were likely to be the victim of a knockout game style attack in the vicinity of this area.

You were likely to be the victim of receiving votes. This might be dangerously good press for the Labour Party. He was just worried about her being compromised to a permanent end and you have to respect. Eleanor, I specifically want to throw to this on you a bit, just because, A, this is from Novara, but also I want your comment here, right? Even after the 2017 election, it seems as though Labour HQ was attempting to make as little hay as possible out of the upset that got eminent code elected in the first place. I mean, precisely, right? That is the indicative of the sheer callousness at play, because we need to be very clear about what this dynamic actually was, right? This was people who were nominally, very nominally, paid quite a lot of money to put a Labour government in power and paid a lot of money to advance the wellbeing of the world. This was a working class writ large.

These people looked at Grenfell, they looked at the climate crisis, they looked at the tens of thousands of people who were, by that point, already dead from austerity. They looked at the Windrush generation crisis, they looked at people banged up and being abused in detention centres and they were like, you know what? Okay, maybe we have a little twinge of conscience, maybe, maybe that troubles us at night occasionally, but the big threat is a softly spoken social democrat who grows marrows in his spare time. That's the real threat here. And everything else is sacrificeable to keep him out and therefore preserve my own career. And that's really what we're talking about here. And when people are wrangling over whether or not to stay in the party, I think that's the emotional core of it a lot of the time, because yes, it's been frustrating, it's frustrating always, right? Like party politics is frustrating and it's long and it's boring and it involves going to a lot of meetings and doing a lot of necessary but very uninspiring work here.

But what drew a lot of people to the Corbyn project was a sense of care and a sense of kindness that people felt was completely lacking in politics before and possibly since. And when you look at things like that, how the people of Grenfell were treated, I don't blame people for not wanting to be involved in that party anymore. I'm going to stay because I mean, I sort of vaguely want to stick around to see if I can be helpful, if that's at all possible, but the kind of cry of grief, not just over what could have been like if we could have won the 2017 election, but also for a sense of your place in a project which has an actual vision and has an actual soul. Yeah, God, people are really hurting right now. This report has done real, real damage to people's sense of possibility and to people's sense of their role in some kind of collective. I want to jump in for a second because, you know, on the topic of Emma Dentcode and Kensington and Chelsea, here are some chat transcripts from the day after the 2017 election. The first line says, we'll have to suck this up. The people have spoken, bastards. Later on in the chat, Kensington and Chelsea, I've just woken up and I'm confused by Twitter. Did we gain it? Count again at 6 p.m.

O.M.G., that Emma Code is a grade one tool. That's their response to winning, if I'm not mistaken, a constituency they'd never held before. Awesome. Ever. I'm sure they're fine about Canterbury because the MP for Canterbury is a blairite completely and was on TV insulting her own activist the night before the December election, but look at that. Somebody who served as a counselor in that constituency when it was Tory fucking nightmare forever, someone who's been in the Labour Party for 35 years, finally wins a parliamentary seat and that's your response. Look, it's like I hate to do the thing about projection, right? Because it's always hack to say projection, but these are the people like the fucking they like being in permanent opposition because they don't really have to do much. And they can, they just get to, they get these like six figure scenicures and they can just sort of continue to be vaguely personally important and kind of feel in the middle of things. And there you go. And that's it.

In the thick of it. Well, the thing is right, you know, like, you know, a Grenfell Tower, maybe a lot of, you know, working class people and ethnic minority people were burnt to death. But the thing you've got to bear in mind is that Jeremy Corbyn actually engendered like an unpleasant vibe. And it was a vibe that made a lot of like centrist people in the Labour Party feel like a lot less cool and like enabled them to have a lot less fun with it. And that in a way is worse. Bless him. I think what possibly Jeremy Corbyn, who is fundamentally peaceable and fundamentally kind of a twinkly jam grandad who just wants the best for everyone and just wants us to have nice things. He could have really done with being a bit more of like what the scaremongering tabloids said he was from like 2017 onwards. So we're talking about how he was so factional and fixated on purging the opposition's office.

It's like, God, yeah, that would have been nice if only if he hadn't tried to like placate and work across the aisle as much. Maybe these fundamentally callous, cruel, incompetent wreckers would have been rightly out of a job years ago. I would have liked to have seen him call some of these people cunts at least once. That's all I ask. Do you think he ever has? I think the main risk here actually I might I might be making myself a little bit unpopular with this one. I think the main risk is actually using this report to sort of fully exonerate or eulogize Corbyn because like I think that lack of ruthlessness that you're talking about Eleanor. I think ultimately it reflects poorly on Corbyn as a leader right because I never want to let the bad administrator or advisor take the fall for someone who where the buck stops with them.

The press are already doing it with Dominic Cummings taking the fall for Johnson's herd immunity policy so we can't make the scene in coming him to Corbyn. If it wasn't for his naivety then the 2017 election that was lost because he allowed a system to be just to like continue happening. What did he do with that majority that we gave him? It could have like like not only that but also a lot of non-white people which includes Jewish people like Labour members saw like they saw people posting about like Holocaust denial and stuff and it went undelt with. And again it's not because Corbyn is personally Holocaust denier it's because he wasn't able to get the gunk out of the system. He's just there for the vibe. And I think like and I think there's a risk there's a risk there's a risk of being too of forgiving that naivety that ultimately create like ultimately like that was that was the problem. I think I think the productive thing here is we can appreciate Corbyn but I think the thing is we have to draw some lessons from this and we have to say that whatever form progressive politics in this country takes it cannot make these mistakes again.

That cannot allow this sort of cadre of weirdos and freaks and faction lists to ever again hold that kind of influence. No hacks, no bureaucrats, no weirdos. The next the next leader basically has to be left wing blade. Well and I think this this gives us a good place to sort of ask what it all means right because the vast majority of the people talked about in this report most of them have all left the party. They've all gone on to you know cushy sinecures elsewhere and with a few exceptions they're basically beyond disciplinary reach and even then like like like we were like I said there's there are tons more of them. They spent their entire time briefing client journalists like Kevin Scofield negative internal news about labor such as labor has a backlog of thousands of anti semitism cases which they themselves were sitting on. And like these same journalists are that these same people were briefing to are still working in all the same posts. And so if you if you think this is going to get talked about in any other way than receiving a dismissal is whining that you have another fucking thing coming nothing.

This is going to change probably nothing maybe a specific appointment to one specific post in the Labor Party will be given to someone with identical beliefs and politics who just didn't happen to be in this WhatsApp group. What it can change though is it can just make you fucking incandescent with rage. That is really that is really the thing to take away from this is that these people are soulless hollow cunts who want absolutely nothing than the continuation of the status quo that enables them to make a shitload of money and go to fucking dinner parties with their hollowed out cunt journalists friends and do all the hollowed out cunt zone to fucking bullshit. Right that they constantly go on about that is all they care about and the only way for the left to win is to quote Malcolm Tucker their favorite person is to twat the fuckery out of them. That is like the only thing you can do is just spend the rest of your life calling them cunts 24 hours a day until eventually they crack because they're fucking babies and they can't take it. Yeah you have to become extremely mad that's phase three right that season three shit is you're just furious all the time you're in quarantine you're like wandering your own apartment with your shirt off just mumbling to yourself just getting angrier and angrier. That's that's the responsible thing to do here doing a push up for every WhatsApp message you have two wolves you have your horniness wolf and you've got your angry wolf and one of them has to win and anger is the one that has to win. Exactly which is the month of no horny and it's just going to be the good month.

Yeah. Welcome to anger Ramadan. That's the new that's the new that's new thing in TFC season three. Welcome to anger Ramadan. That's right. That's right. Yeah, I will be fasting. I will be getting mad and madder and madder and it's just going to get more and more deranged every time until we're going full true and not.

Sorry. I just can't wait for Paul Stains to type out the sentence and they're proposing something called anger Ramadan. Getting reported to my six very extreme is something like anger Ramadan you say it's like look should you stay in the party. I don't fucking know. I don't know if I'm going to stay in the party. What you know is that laborism as an ideology which is the idea that the improvement of the working people of Britain is only possible through the election of the Labour Party and whatever form it is to Parliament, which unfortunately that's not something I made up. That's a real ideology that's really persistent in this country is very, very strong. That's one of the reasons this wretched fucking party hasn't pacified.

We just have to have more meetings and then the more meetings that we have then the more socialism. That's right. Socialism is when you do meetings and the more meetings you do the socialist or it is, but I don't fucking know if I'm staying. I'm not going to tell you which is bad because socialism is bad. I'm not going to tell you to stay. I don't know if any of my co-host or Eleanor wants to wants to weigh in on that, but I honestly don't fucking know at this point. Fuck around and do something else. Do not waste your energy.

Do not waste your time. Do not waste your money. The Labour Party does not deserve it. It has absolute contempt for you as an institution. The only thing you owe it is that reciprocity. Tell the Labour Party to go fuck itself right back. Go do tenant organizing. Go do union stuff.

Go do anything else. Join the SWP if you have to. That's how low my standards are going. It's that you can join them and be like, oh, I have quite a nice printed sign and never Google Comrade Delta. So just so long as you do not stay in the Labour Party. Join the WWE. Join the WWE. Join any acronym.

Not ISIS. Just start joining stuff. Just fuck around. Don't even know what you're joining. Join the Tories. Do entryism. Do entryism on the Tories. There is genuinely more institutional flexibility there.

Genius. Absolutely fucking genius. We could totally take over UKIP. That's totally doable. Fucking Sargon of a card did it. We're better at Twitch than he is. That's the new TF Season 3 project. We're going to enter and do another political party.

We're going to do entryism on the Tories. Take over the Twitter account and just tweet about Starship Troopers and do nothing else. Watch along with new Tory MP who's saying Kaswani. For some reason, the Tories had this expensively designed logo with the tree and the Union Jack, but for some reason their membership voted to change it to Jack Goofy. Do you have any final thoughts on whether people should stay in Labour? For me, we have I don't know. For Alice, we have fuck off from Eleanor.

What else should they do? In your heart, there are two wolves. The angry wolf and the socialist wolf. Which one wins? The horny one. Honestly, I genuinely don't know. What I want to do is tell them to go fuck themselves, but also it would very much be like a wealth evaporating in a stupanova.

They don't care. I think I just kind of will continue for now my passive like one pound a year or whatever my membership is because I'm still on the low right. So I can like focus on something occasionally. But what I was absolutely right about is that like, now is the time to pour your energies into other things like tenants organising and austerity organising. Joining the Conservative Party as a bit.

Joining the Conservative Party, of course, just following Dominic Cummings around making sure he's OK. I'm sure he's probably not. Just do stuff. Just fuck around and do stuff. It doesn't have to make sense. Just do it. Just run up and down your stairs.

Get surgery to look like Jack Goofy. Jeremy Corbyn didn't come out of the Labour Left. Jeremy Corbyn was accidentally like thrust into power from total obscurity because he was part of the anti austerity movement and the anti war movement, both of which happened outside the Labour Party and had to because the Labour Party was, oh, what's that phrase again? Oh, it's pro war and pro poor people dying at the time. And you know, maybe very electable platform.

Well, Tony Blair did win the election. Yeah. And Corbyn, I don't want to say, I feel like Corbyn was, like again, we're totally on board with criticising him, but I think he represented the best chance for anything resembling socialism within the Labour Party for at least a generation. And if that wasn't enough,

if with all of that backdrop, that swell of support behind him and with a manifesto as good as we had with policies as good as we had, if that wasn't enough to overcome these calculating fuckfreaks, then what prospect is there within the Labour Party? And my answer is there is none. You should post the picture of the incredibly swole Garfield where that's how it is almost bitch of an earth in somebody's Twitter replies.

I don't even care who you should just fuck around. Look, I think that's the last thing about, right? Lesson for the ages. By way of summing up the sum up, right, I think that fundamentally we as the as the the left in this country has to fundamentally question Labourism as an ideology. I'm why that's like fundamentally questioning the dead Pope. Hold on.

Like it's going on. I'm going somewhere with this is Labourism. It's done conceptually. It's done as a project, but who boy does it have staying power because a lot of people just tick next to Labour when they vote. And because we have a first pass the post system, that's really very difficult to surmount.

And so I think the new theme of season three, we're going to try and think about some other things you can do other than be a member of the Labour Party. Because besides, even if we had like John McDonald as leader or whatever and a Labour HQ that was actually working with the party, we wouldn't have a chance to like turn that into a political outcome for another several years. And as Alice likes to say,

I'm looking at my watch to see how many hours of climate we have left. We've squandered one on doing this instead of like learning how to farm beats. Yes. Labourism as an ideology has stolen a year of our climate that we had. So stay a member if you want to, probably vote for them if they don't suck later. If there's a better option, certainly vote for that. But really we have to expand our horizons beyond just well,

politics is voting and voting is politics, because that's the ideology that people want you to fucking have and you really should not have it. Yeah. Do not fall for this party which only exists as a fly trap for anyone in politics with any kind of principles in this country. If you have any like goodness or decency or any kind of sense of morality, of course you would be drawn to the Labour Party

because it allows some room for those in like a party political system where everything else is total brutality or like sneering plastic bag tax fuckery. So yeah, of course I see the appeal, but you have to let that go. It's gone now. It's not coming back. There's we have, like I say, however many years of climate left, probably not a lot, however many years of democracy left.

That's also going to be very fun. And it's just, it's just a trap. It is a trap and you can do so much more valuable things for society than electoral organizing for the Labour Party. Oh, God. Do not bother. Do not waste your time. Listeners in the Milo faction of the listenership can join me

in joining the Swin Zone and reopening the FBP campaign. The Swin Zone. But the FBP like Sandinistas. I think that's about all the time we have for today. I want to say Eleanor, thank you so much for coming on the show. It's been always a delight to talk to you as our now most frequent guest. Yes, I am the king. The king of shitposting and wasting the climate time that we have left.

Take talk, baby. Oh yeah. I also want to thank you, the listener, for listening to this episode of Trash Future, that podcast. And on Thursday at 8 p.m. on our Twitch stream, twitch.tv slash Trash Future podcast, we will be debating the motion. This house believes a second jog a day is worth the apocalypse. So do log on for that.

It's going to be myself reprising my role as speaker who's saying in the position of government Milo in the position of opposition having lost the previous debate with a litany of special guests, including Zandvan Tulligan, Josie Long, Olga Koch, and our very own Alice, called well Kelly. Yes. So in fact, you know what? Vote in our debate for which side wins this ridiculous resolution, because that's more meaningful than a vote for the Labour Party right now.

Absolutely. That's the only electoralism that matters. Unless one of us like emails like our WhatsApp chats to our work email, in which case you'll see like a lot of stuff about like busies and various anime messages. In the last episode, we spoke to Wendy Lu, whose book Abolish Silicon Valley is out now. So I promised I would plug it on this show.

So I am doing that get Wendy Lu's book by the book. Otherwise, you know, we got t-shirts. It's a very cool design by Matt Lachanski. And we've got the Patreon. You can subscribe to it five bucks a month. You know what it is. Yeah. I think song is here.

We go by Jensang. It's very good. Listen to it early. Listen to it off. Hey, you know what this theme song should be? Oh, let's get a little D-ream in the house. Oh, let's do that. Ryan Cox, do you know that if you go out into the into the depths of space,

you can actually still hear Luke A. Kirst morning about how no one likes him. All right. That's all things can only get better from here. I'm pretty sure of it. See you all next time. Yeah.