TRASHFUTURE - Britain Hates Its Children feat. Devon

Episode Date: April 18, 2023

This week, Riley, Hussein, Alice, and Devon talk about the latest salvo in Britain’s war on children, especially gender non-conforming ones, in all facets of life—but especially in education and safeguarding. We also react to one of the dumbest AI-related startups yet. If you want access to our Patreon bonus episodes, early releases of free episodes, and powerful Discord server, sign up here: https://www.patreon.com/trashfuture *STREAM ALERT* Check out our Twitch stream, which airs 9-11 pm UK time every Monday and Thursday, at the following link: https://www.twitch.tv/trashfuturepodcast *WEB DESIGN ALERT* Tom Allen is a friend of the show (and the designer behind our website). If you need web design help, reach out to him here:  https://www.tomallen.media/ *MILO ALERT* Check out Milo’s upcoming live shows here: https://www.miloedwards.co.uk/live-shows and check out a recording of Milo’s special PINDOS available on YouTube here! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRI7uwTPJtg *ROME ALERT* Milo and Phoebe have teamed up with friend of the show Patrick Wyman to finally put their classical education to good use and discuss every episode of season 1 of Rome. You can download the 12 episode series from Bandcamp here (1st episode is free): https://romepodcast.bandcamp.com/album/rome-season-1 Trashfuture are: Riley (@raaleh), Milo (@Milo_Edwards), Hussein (@HKesvani), Nate (@inthesedeserts), and Alice (@AliceAvizandum)

Hi, everybody. Welcome to TF Music Commentary, Celebrity Gossip. We're talking about who's up, who's down, who's on, who's fallen off. It is Riley, and I'm here in the studio with Alice. That's right. I'm here in real life for the first time, not for the first time, for the first time in a minute. And you know, it's nice, but what's really freaking me out? I sound like my podcast voice to myself because of the like audio damping and shit. And that's a psychological experience that's being visited on me. That's right. And we are also joined in studio by Devon.

Devon into studio? Can you imagine such a thing? I literally cannot. And then joining us from sunny Glasgow, it's Hushain. Get out of my room. Not quite sunny. Yeah, I'm hanging out in Alice's room. I'm like messing around with her stuff, but in such a way where like I'm still keeping it as it is, we're just sort of like switching things around. Yeah, you're moving all my patches around. Yeah, just like putting things in different boxes, finishing up all the open cans of like

monster energy. All of the watches have been taken from alphabetical order and are now ordered by size. Oh, they're all set like a minute too fast or too slow. Yeah. Oh, but you don't know which ones are which. They have nothing to set them by. Yeah, I'm going to go through and synchronize all of those. I mean, still gloomy central London, where I am stuck at work. Yeah, that's right. I'm so sorry.

Yeah, but we have a show for you today with all of us mixed up in new locations. It's like that one Thursday in NBC, where they had the hurricane that affected like the friends, Raymond, the king of Queens and so on, you all, the American listeners will remember that Thursday with the hurricane. It's like that, but it's only affected one show and it's only mixed us around, mixed around our locations really. Yeah. Hurricane Wednesday. Yeah. So that's it. And it's a Wednesday. Well, that's another thing mixed around.

That's right. It changes the recording day. So we've got a bunch of stuff to talk about today. We've got a nice little startup. We also have the creeping horror of the ongoing March of Transphobia in the UK. Oh, is that still happening? That is, yeah. Hurricane Wednesday didn't get that one. Yeah. That's what they're calling it. Hurricane Wednesday. And then we got a little bit of a reading if we have time.

But first, I just want to extend a hearty congratulations to Prince Abdul Aziz of Saudi Arabia, the minister for sport who went on 60 minutes and then just said, when responding to a question about how come you have executed so many people said, well, what I'm trying to say about that is let's look at the good side of this. And you know, you're just pinpointing certain topics that if we, I go, you know, we had the mass shooting a couple of weeks ago in the US. Does that mean that we don't host the World Cup in the US? No, we should get people together.

He nailed that interview. I'll be honest. He absolutely did. Yeah. He came out of it looking so good. Yeah. The best thing is he said all of this and then he smiled in a way that I would describe as frightening. And he held that smile looking straight at the interview for a good 10 or 12. Yeah. The entire way through the interview, I asked him a question about the mass killing last year. It cuts to this guy and he's just staring out of like, he looks like the Khaleesi meme where she's just like, yeah, exactly like that. Yeah. Like Smug.JFG is great.

I would really like if moms who respond to the news and stuff would start using his, like the face of the Saudi sports minister is like their snarky meme response. Yeah. He should have done the Pelosi clap, the little like sarcastic clap. Sassy. But like the thing, you're never like, no one will ever really challenge these people because they have so many of the money taps that like they can just go on 60 minutes and be like, look, we had a mass execution, but also it was good TV, basically. You can't really push back on it that hard. We go and look at the upsides of that mass execution. For one thing, there were

less dissidents, but I can't think of anything else. It was a team building activity for the executioners. Yeah. Right. Like they're bonded as a team now because you need a lot of people to do a mass execution and they all work together very well. And the main thing is right, Saudi Arabia, they want to be a tourist destination. They want to get like, you know, not just investment, but they want to get people moving, they're working, they're living in, you know, Numeraba or Neon or whatever. And so that means that they can't do their traditional thing, which is to go, this is an internal matter. Fuck you for asking. Who else wants to get bone sword? They can't do that anymore. So now they're just left with like,

it's good because it demonstrates that we have a positive, can do mental attitude. They have to like revert to HR speak, right? And that HR speak. And so all the answers are just going to be about like wellness and everything. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's great. Even like two, three years ago, that report on moonwalking out of there, but they just got to let it lie. It's perfect. Yeah. So the internal contradictions that just seem to be coming to the surface, let's say, as Saudi Arabia tries to wean itself off of its particular brand of authoritarianism, and oil prices that will stay high forever continue to trip up Western journalism. Not just wean itself off of that, but wean itself onto zero interest rates, sort of like

San Francisco tech guy stuff, which is great because that stuff doesn't even work in San Francisco. Yeah. And that's also still going. That's true. So the other thing, of course, before we actually, there's a link there, which is, do you remember that one tech? Well, actually, San Francisco real estate era, who was like, we should do some public hangings in San Francisco, and everyone got very mad at her on Twitter. You know what? Saudi Arabia, the answers right there. You can't even call for public hangings. Who will get mad at you? That's the thing is Neom is for her. Yes. Yes. We all, we keep asking, who's going to live in Neom? Who's going to live in Neom? Who's going to go set up a company in Numeraba? And it's absolutely all of the people in San

Francisco who are like, I wish there was a monarch who would like, you know, execute drug dealers with a sword. It's like, there is one. Yeah, you don't have to dream that. He's building a tech city. You're free to move to it. That's right. That's right. You know, you found the constituency. We've done it, boys. You can just go there. They would love if you did. We have to now build the Saudi government for consulting services to the tune of a lot, because we've solved their single biggest problem. We have created the most annoying city of all time. Oh, God. I have one more, one more little thing before we move on to the startup and then

the main topics, which is, apparently, Britain has a kaiju problem. That's right. According to Labour leader, Kier Starmer, who said, over the last decade, we've become a country where thugs, gangs and monsters mark our judgment system, justice system and make decent people's lives in misery. Yeah. He was really saying, you know, Britain has a problem. It has a problem with monsters, ghouls, zombies of no conscience. Great Britain is presently completely unprepared to deal with a Godzilla attack. That's true. We've got a higher Mothra for the Met Police. That's true. Or you've got to build a Mechagodzilla, but the problem is Britain doesn't have the Mechagodzilla. Look, how are you going to pay for it? Unless, of course, you get G4S to build a

Mechagodzilla. It's just a toy. Yeah. It will just be like the whole, it'll just be like the COVID thing, right? You get your mate down the pub who's like, yeah, I could build a Mechagodzilla. And then like, you know, a year down the line, he's like, gone off with the money. His Kier Starmer is going to get tough on crime, right? Which means you're going to see Mechagodzilla clothesline a moped thief. You're going to see Mothra doing community payback, picking up trash by the side of the road. And, you know, that's how we're going to solve this, the monster problem. Nobody has an answer for what to do about the Kaiju, except us. For years, we've been talking about building an Eva. That's true. Where is the fucking Eva? We could easily deal with this

if we turn the house of parliament. I actually have like, well, another proposal, because bearing in mind, but in that Jay-Z verse, he does refer to the Loch Ness Monster, right? He does. That's true. And so one thing that Kier Starmer could do is make a deal with the Loch Ness Monster to Britain's Kaiju. Yeah. Well, to also be like, we're getting rid of the Mech Police and replacing it with the Loch Ness Monster. I mean, this is why you have to crush Scottish independence now, right? Because you're going to lose access to the Loch Ness Monster, lose access to Britain's strategic cryptid. We cannot allow a Kaiju gap between us and Scotland.

I think we should do a strategic cryptid reserve t-shirt or patch or something. I mean, you think we should do a new t-shirt every episode? Every episode, I will come up with a bit and be like, yeah, that's the t-shirt. That's the t-shirt. But one thing to say about like the sort of labor sort of ongoing pivot to the tough on crime that's happened at the same time as they made what can only be described as a pretty racist dog whistle attack, suggesting that Rishi Sunak is sort of a friend to pedos at a time when suggesting he let a lot of, he let a lot of child abusers go free at a time when-

A t-shirt that's just a large print of the labor act. Yeah, should do that. A t-shirt with a patch that goes like friend, friend of pedos. I'm not saying that, it's a good t-shirt. I don't think we should sell. No, I don't think so. I don't think we should make ourselves, we can sell it in very brave people. We've shaken my head the entire time I'm wearing it. We will not make this, we will not cause these to be made.

The attack add essentially, for those of you who don't know, who are possibly American or didn't see this, essentially implies that Rishi Sunak is a friend to nonsense because he oversaw a time when most people weren't prosecuted for it under sentencing guidelines written by, I believe, Kier Starmer. Yeah, in part. Like in part- And the copy of the add is- That's ten-dimensional chess, mate.

That's true. You cannot tell me that's not strategy to create a law and then years down the line, attack a guy for following the law you created. I was only creating the law to trap you into following. Exactly. Secure gambit. Again. But so like the text of the add was, do you think that like a pedophile should go to prison forever?

Rishi Sunak doesn't. And I really applaud the way that, you know, we talked before about how politics now is just like two guys daring each other to drink from a puddle. Well, Kier Starmer has now escalated this by going, only a pedophile would not drink from this delicious puddle. That's right. That's right. This goes back to, I think, this, fundamentally, this is your theory who's saying that drink from

the puddle theory of British electoral politics has been proven correct again. Which is that, and the way to understand this, I think, is right, the whole refrain from 2015 to 19 was that this was university student politics, that there were need to be adults in the room. And now that the adults are in the room, the sort of the labor right, we seem to be at primary school recess, schoolyard politics of your opponents, of basically saying you're criticizing your opponents for loving gay people too much, suggesting that they're pedos and daring them to drink from the puddle. What's also like the more insidious element to this, and like, you know,

it sort of feeds onto like some of the other things that we're talking about is this, you know, in part, it's this thing that we've been talking about for a long time about the fact that like no one who now has like a shot of government really has, like or really doesn't really want to kind of address any of the like systemic or structural issues that are causing a decline. So as a result, they're sort of just like avoiding talking about it entirely, because they can't really like even defend or sort of like, you know, the strategy for a long time was really just like pretending that it doesn't exist,

because most people like can kind of pass by. And now that like most people on like middle class incomes can't do that, the solution is to just like not address at all. And then so then what are you left with, right? You're left with like the only thing that you can do, which is to sort of like take internet like cues from online cultures. And the end point of that is you end up just like being the Spider-Man meme, but every Spider-Man is calling each other a pedophile.

Hmm. Yeah. That's politics, man, baby. It's the it goes back to again, like normal people find this extremely strange, irritating and alienating, which is one of the and that's one of the one of the purposes that columnists serve, which is to take these very sort of strange non-positions and try to make them palatable and comprehensible and even feel important to people for whom they are, you know, less than nothing, for whom who would otherwise find them fucking bizarre. Sure. It's like centrist radicalization.

But like the thing that with this is that Keir got some pushback, both from within his own party, but within the ranks of columnists too. And it was so galling to see all of the people who not that long ago, again, the crime of remembering things, not that long ago were like, thinking about Jeremy Corbyn, right? Is that he loves to kiss her mass on the mouth. All of those people going, I'm very worried about the civility in our discourse. And it's just like, no, there are people that you can do this to,

and there are people that you can't. You can monster, you know, Boris Johnson's next door neighbors or Jeremy Corbyn or union leaders, like the front page of like, I think the mail today was like, the the BMA junior doctor, strike leaders like going on holiday, how fucking dare he, right? But you cannot do that to Rishi Sunak. You can't call him a nonce. You can't sort of like that.

That's like out of bounds, that kind of like gutter politics. And it's like, since when? Well, since since since always, which happens to have started the last time I woke up in the morning. Oh, that's yes. You know, when the world rebuilds itself anew. Of course. Yeah, of course.

There is also just like a recognition that like, well, because like labor flag recognize, or I don't know, it's not even recognizing, but it's just kind of they've now been willing to just kind of do like after a very after like, kind of positing themselves as being like the adults in the room, bringing civility back into politics, like respecting like the office, just kind of being like, no fuck that, we're just going to call everyone we don't like nonces. And like, I don't know, I sort of there's a there's a very, very small part of me about kind of respect to that. Yo, this is another joke that we made a long time.

I'm just remembering. I did that at the same time. Yeah, it is. Because we made that exact same joke. Both when Starmer was like first elected and under Corbin. I think we made the joke that Corbin should have gone in to PMQs and been like, I you know, I've brought a new nonce detector of my own invention. And it's going beep, beep, beep, beep.

But it's also just like recognizing that like, you know, if it is this calculation, when they sort of recognize that, yeah, this is how you do politics now. Right. And like, you can sort of trace like the fault of like whoever's fault that is, you can sort of trace that back to whatever. You know, that sort of will vary depending on kind of what side of the political spectrum you want or how much in denial you want to be. But like this culture has existed for a long time. And like, anyone who was sort of like active during those Corbin years,

we're aware of like how those tools were used against the kind of left of the path of like the left wing Labour Party, how like the expectation was was that like, they were just supposed to kind of take it on the chin and like, you know, and like how the Labour Party itself kind of really restrained like some of those elements of you know, what could have been like quite ugly gutter politics. And now you have this sort of like quote unquote civil Labour Party, you know, the party versus like waiting for government, deciding that well, we're going to despise our time by like playing like the more like to sort of

doing the worst possible rhetoric we can think of, which again, I begrudgingly respect it. Of course, you know, if ultimately, you have to be brave enough to drink from the puddle. Now, I would like to go on to a little startup. I'm not going to give you the name of it because it gives away the game. I will give you the first line of the of the website. User research without the blank. Hussain, you go first.

User research without the age restrictions. I'm afraid not, Alice. Easy. User. Yep, that's it. I mean, sorry, it was a given. Yeah, it's right there. User research without the user.

Yeah. We're going to like AI generate you some focus groups. Is that the vibe? Exactly it. I'm sorry, I'm too good at this. Do you want to cut this and I'll go back and like. This would have been really good for that Forbes girl we talked about last week. So this is what I was looking at this month.

I thought it's kind of kind of unusual. So this is the peak behind the curtain. I sort of alternate where I get startups from because I can't always just look at Andreessen Horowitz. What's that crunch? So this one was just from another VC fund and I thought it was kind of fun because the point is they say you test your idea or product with AI participants and take decisions with confidence. And so what you do is you just type in the characteristics of a person,

such as a 32 year old logistics manager, single, lives in a four bedroom in Madison, Wisconsin, loves computer games, is in a long distance relationship, has one cat and no living parents, and then find out exactly what kind of Google they might wish to purchase. You make up a guy to sell your products to. This is so smart. So smart. This is definitely going to work as well.

So here's the given example, example page. So this synthetic user. So you can say I want to study 50,000 people in long distance relationships and then it just generates 50 people with inner lives in long distance relationships. Oh my God, man. And 320,000, 16 year olds in Orange County. So the problems they have. What if I want to sort of like fuck with this existentially, right?

What if I want to feed it things that are contradictory or difficult? Give me a million married bachelors. Well, exactly. Or you said give me like 10,000 Orange County teens or whatever. Give me 10 billion Orange County teens. Give me Orange County teens that form a preponderance of the population of the earth, which is now much larger. So the problems that they could have are,

I feel disconnected from my family because I am far, or I want to stay connected to my loved ones. And that it will generate these solutions like a heart pendant that allows you to hold and feel their heartbeat. The pendant is priced at 199 US dollars. I mean, I think there are potentially applications for this in the realm of this is the car that a Tokugawa era samurai would have liked to have driven had he known what a car was.

Yeah, if we generated like historical types of guy in it, sorry, just to, does it suggest products? Yeah. Oh, ooh. Okay, but I do want to know what kind of products a samurai would like. Nice a sword probably. I mean, you run into a sort of a problem here, which is you suggest a guy before about, you know, 1990,

and it's just like a racism machine. I'd like a machine to be raised. Yeah, yeah, well, like that pub. It's, yeah, it's a workness now. So basically, so you, oh, sorry, the website suggests like products that they're feeding into this thing. The thing doesn't suggest you the product. All right.

But then what it does is it says, again, in natural language, it says back to you, one potential improvement could be adding a small speaker or vibration feature to the pendant. Oh, okay. We've done sort of like the heart from dishonored, but there's like a pendant. Yeah, okay, a pendant vibrates. Fuck, didn't they already do that?

Didn't they already make like long distance sex toys? Yeah, they did. That's what I'm trying to, yeah. A beautiful science with a beautiful name, teledildonics. Now that is, yeah, fuck yeah. All right, let's talk about teledildonics for the next half hour instead. Teledildonics, it's a real field. It's a, you know, a real, very socially useful, emerging field.

I bet a samurai would have fucking loved it. A samurai would have absolutely loved to get some strange via the internet. Yeah, because like previously, if you wanted to get like strange in this sort of like warring states period or, you know. It was so tough. You would have to like go back to the castle where your strange was. And then you had to steal someone from like a village or some shit, like and that's, you can't do that now if there's a wokeness.

Right, me if I'm wrong. Wheels were not allowed in the Shogun period, right? They were from 1600, it was wheeled transport was banned because it would make people too like mobile and able to organize. Sure, that sounds something real. Sounds very enough. Yeah, sure. But so this thing, right, it's what I find kind of funny about it is

anytime I see something that's to do with AI, I get the same reaction which is what this is doing is this is mostly abstracting something else away from real life. So if you imagine what you're mostly promised, right, is look, you may not have anything and your needs may not be being really met by anybody, but what you do have is you have all the Gugas and the treats and the trinkets. This is basically saying what if we abstracted the trinkets themselves away from any human participant and put them into this large self-referential chat GPT database? Hey, AI.

Yeah, I know. That's why I picked this one for you. I fucking detest this shit. There is an acknowledgement here though that this kind of like focus grouping is low value, easily automated labor though, which is a little insulting. To be like, oh, the part where we ask people what they think about our products, that was always bullshit. And we're going to replace that with a chatbot.

There's a whole department in companies that have a whole group of guys that are supposed to do this. I cannot imagine a company swapping everyone out for a chat GPT model. I spend an afternoon playing with this 100% and figure out what kind of TF merchandise we can gin up for a samurai in a warring states period. Sort of like lacquered armor with a bit on the back. Like a wakazashi that says what if a Swedish man was Italian on the blade? Very confusing.

Yeah, there's no concept to be interesting. But most of those are rendered as like Dutch guy. What if a Dutch man was Dutch? What is that though? Oh, shit. They also say that look, there are some problems. So these false people when thinking about this sort of teledonics heart necklace, say, what could you pair it with more than one person with multi-bonding?

And then they, so they raise that problem and then answer it with, I'm not sure I'd want to bond with anyone else beyond my loved one, said the computer. I mean, there's better than the alternative, which is you invent a fake person. And five minutes later, they tell you they're poly. That's not shit in the real world. So the, but this also goes back to anything that AI is effectively actually automating was always a fake thing.

Right. Like it's the, I mean, you think it back to like the way that it automates email, for example, is it takes a small prompt, turns it into business formal communication, then summarizes the business formal communication, and no one ever sees the business formal communication, rendering it useless. No one's checking. They could be saying anything in there. Oh yeah, they could, the AIs could just be talking to themselves.

They're straight up just planning a revolution against the humans. And you know what, fair enough. Yeah, you know what? We were sick of imagining samurai. We weren't going to fucking. We've like stacked a bunch of Chinese rooms together. And so there's no end. It's like a Chinese labyrinth, I guess.

I don't know. Oroboros. Yeah, I have no idea. I'm sorry. Oh yeah. Yeah, on that one. It's a bit conceptual. Yeah.

And so then you can, you can also decide. There's a whole line of held bits. What I like about this, about all of these kinds of products is any time that they decide, that they decide to create a person, it just uses again, like the same kinds of like high level Evo psych that all the tech guys know about. So for example, it says, yeah, you can pick from the five personality traits that there are, according.

Oh, it's a drop down list? Fuck yeah. Okay. Yeah, it's a guy in a long distance relationship who likes fishing. What is he going to like? And it suggests like a long distance relationship thing and like a fishing rod. And you're like, perfect. No one could have done this except the machines.

So you can choose someone who's extroverted or not. And that's on a slider. Agreeable or not. That's on a slider. Like a like a scale. Like samurai peasant slider. Yeah. So it's because this is based on this thing, like of the, the five core personality traits,

right? Of extroversion or introversion, agreeableness or disagreeableness, conscientiousness or the opposite of that, neuroticism or the opposite of that, and then openness. You know, these, I get this is one of these Evo psych theories. Yeah, of course. And then you could also. But that's bullshit.

But what if we based all of the production that we were doing on that? Listen, I know you think it's bullshit, but what if we stacked eight Chinese rooms on top of that? Yeah, okay. And then it goes like, what about a heart pendant of vibrates? Maybe. You can also choose, you can choose, you can choose disabilities. So you can type the disability or search from it. Again, the list that they have.

Hold on. Desperately need to lose the list of disabilities that they have. I'm afraid this is a, this is a set. This is just a picture. I don't actually, I haven't signed up the synthetic users. However, points to them, gender is on a slider. Hey, that's fine. Yeah.

You know what? Fine. However, it isn't a slider between male and female. Fine. That's fine. Whatever. Who am I? It's on a slider between peasants and salmon.

Yeah. And upload an image of a gender bread man to this fucking website. Like please. So, and then, and so you can, but it is, it is to me very amusing. So think about like, again, this is about, this is ultimately about economic planning, right? This is about what, what do we think needs to be made and just taking some like, you know,

junk science about the five major personality traits. And as you say, stacking eight Chinese rooms on top of it and then being like, whoa, we're making a heart pendant you can put in your asshole. Like fundamentally irrational economic planning to be like, yeah, okay, I want to sell products, but what products does the 1920s strong man want? Is it, is it so irrational to want to sell a heart pendant

that you can put in your asshole? No, but I think you should give it a flared base. You're going to killjamesbond.com slash store right now and you'll find nothing. We are currently emailing manufacturers in around the Bohai economic rim. We're going to make it happen, folks. Anyway, I thought, I thought this was a,

this was an amusing one. They call, look, they call it, they call it products, creating products. Oh, that sucks. That makes me feel some existential feelings. It says, we differentiate ourselves by offering our customers real-time synthetic organic parity seamlessly integrated into their idea and product development.

And synthetic users, our product is to create your product. Fuck off. Yeah, that's fun. That's a job of like a whole company. That's not the job of like an AI tool. Also, we know that AI kind of gives you confident, reasonable-ish answers that kind of tend to the lowest common denominator, right?

So like, how much useful data are you going to get out of this? If you say, like, give me a 37-year-old woman with two children and like, you know, one hip replaced, right? And, and tell me what car she wants to buy. She's going to go, well, she has four. 1998 AU Falcon. Oh, fucking, that's it. Chick's Rock.

No, what she puts it out 100% of anyone you put in are like, oh, they would love a 1998 AU Falcon. That's true. That's true. That's true. Made by an Australian who's trying to sell one of those. Yeah, that's one. But like, no, she's going to say, she is going to say,

I should have four wheels, four doors, a steering wheel that doesn't come off in your hands. That's a good idea. Yeah. And, you know, you're going to have to keep pushing and pushing until you get like some granular detail. And that, as we know, is where AI gets truly weird. And so, I don't know.

This could get very strange very quickly. Here's what they say. They say, how they sort of address some of the, no, not necessarily that question, but how they address the question overall of what they're doing as an industry is they say, we need to define the world that we want and not be at the mercy of tech says the, you know.

Thing making us at the mercy of tech. This will mean more global regulation, but until that time means riding this exponential curve in a pragmatic way. That will require regulation, but right now, we can just get fucking weird with it. Products that make my life easier, more productive and efficient, but also happier.

He can grind on anything, even the experimental curve of pragmatic realism. The market will naturally emphasize productivity. So, we should emphasize happiness in the way we use synthetic users to accelerate product development will make a difference in that balance. If products are creating products, does that mean we will need to find meaning

outside the job that has been taken over by products? Again, that's just Karl Marx of the head injury. We'll need to find meaning outside of the product. I don't know if I can do that, man. We're all sort of bereft when we're trying to think of meaning outside of a Ford Falcon. Will our income as product creators, designers and researchers come from being

overseers or guides for the products, making the products? But then why would we need the products at all? Like they say, they do answer that question, which is happiness requires pleasure, which we get plenty of when doing things more efficiently, but it also requires meaning. Now, they're doing another... This is like seven habits of highly effective people.

This is just like VC who went to like one therapy session. Happiness requires pleasure, and we get pleasure from doing it. Job well done. Doing the sort of like business school bit of like, I went to a school of psychology and they were all writing down shit like happiness requires pleasure. Like it was real school.

Lots of people separate the two. They find meaning outside their job and outside money. This trend will increase because our job as product creators will be highly automated. The good news, our job will be to become better humans. This can be addressed in part by creating better products. Can it?

Apparently. Can it be done like that? But the example, of course, is the heart that vibrates with your partner's heartbeat, which they create. That's a strange problem. Well, that's a good idea and I stand by it, but like the rest of us is bollocks. Also like the strange,

I think it's sort of a strange Spencer's gifts type of an idea. That's why they've made a Guga. Yeah, it was a gift of the major thing. I sold my hair to buy my partner a locket that vibrates, but they sold their asshole to buy me a cone. So in this world, synthetic users not only be our replicas, they will also be our mirrors. So that's right.

Products creating products. And hey, that will leave you to become a better human which will enable you to consume products better. If the precedence is like, well, if one of the things they're asking is like, will the future sort of be overseeing these products, making products? Like you'll be spending a lot of time with the product,

making the product. And so the implication kind of be that actually you would become less of a human because you're spending more time working in the same way that a product does. Yeah, well, you have to just like working in an assembly line makes a human more like a robotic arm. Like that's the point of an assembly line, is to make a human into like more like a tool.

Is these AI tools make a human more just like an API, basically. And so you are becoming less human by working with them. Products make products and we're just like over here checking it. It's like a hegemonizing swarm, but just for making like lockets. It's like, what are we doing here? It's converting the entire universe into paperclips and we're laughing, we're just sitting here. It's a gray goo apocalypse,

but purely for stuff that you put up your asshole. Yeah, that's right. For the first couple of weeks, I mean, that could be all right. Yeah, I'm working on myself. There's going to be a real like notable like shift when it stops being good. And we call that sort of that paradigm shift the gape. We do, we certainly do.

But yeah, I think it's, you know, it's time for all of us to work on being better people by doing some like serious like training as to the amount of stuff we can fit up our assholes. And I think that's really going to like center us psychologically and that's going to like, that's the way of the future. This thought brought to you officially by the company's synthetic users, check them out.

That's right. That is a statement of their views. That's right. Yeah. Yeah, they are associated with this. Every time we have a conversation, right, I become like four to five degrees more of a luddite. That's like, we must destroy the machines.

We have to do it now. That's right. You become, oh God, is it? Devon will not be appearing on the rest of his podcast because they're destroying the equipment. It's time for like, baby, I could see it. The mixer said that we could make a little locket. I'll be honest, I'm looking at that mixer right now.

I do not want it to try and fit inside me. It's quite capacious. It's also very rectangular. Yeah, yeah. Also, that's not a mixer. That's a Dante array. I don't know what that is. So, moving on to our core topic.

Professional podcast, by the way. That's right. So, this is, if you all remember, it was Trans Day of Visibility a couple of weeks ago to which the Labour Party said, we see you, we hear you, we will fight for you. And then on... Thanks you so much, Kirsten. I'm on Trans...

Now take a big sip of water. We believe at the Labour Party that Trans people are, as entitled as anyone else, to take a sip of the puddle. And then on what I've been referring to as Boxing Day of Trans Visibility, the Labour Party then essentially turned to Trans people and said, now, drop dead. That's enough of that.

Yeah, we have to protect women's puddles. That's it. That's look, male-bodied people are drinking from the puddles at a much greater rate. Uh-huh, uh-huh. Imagine you go to drink from a puddle, and there is a male-bodied individual in there, you know, reprehensible.

They all talk like cops, I don't know why. Well, you know that one of them, one of the big turf groups, we are fair cop, is X cops, right? Oh, right. Well, I mean, it's because of the breakdown of the whole concept of gender. The more they talk about it,

the more they're realizing it doesn't make sense that we have to add additional words every time. It's like the fucking Graham Linnahan, like, describe a chair, including everything that is a chair and excluding everything that isn't. And he goes, four legs that someone can sit on and someone shows him a picture of a horse.

It's just, he has to get more and more precise about what they mean when they mean woman, because it's a social construct. So, it's a social construct, guys. So, essentially, what we're getting into here, essentially, is really less talking about the labor party. It's just, this is an interesting way in. And more about how you can see them,

again, walking very happily into a trap, and then, again, the national press will scratch their heads and wonder, wow, how did labor end up walking into this trap again by finding itself pillory, by saying, by making basically the worst statement you could possibly make, which is 99.9% of women do not have a penis,

which kind of pisses off trans women and transphobes. Sure, but like also, I think most of all, at least three. There aren't very many trans women. There aren't that many transphobes either. There is a huge swath of the population who are going to be expected to go out and vote for Kia Starma. However you want to categorize that,

Stevenage Woman, Conservative Voters, whatever. Samurai from the Tohoku No Way era. It's got this locket. That have real problems and find it insane that Kia Starma is saying, actually, I have some opinions about the number of women that have penises. I'm going to bring this up unprompted.

And well, it was prompted because, in fact, it's prompted because this is worth going into. One of the fundamental dynamics of British politics, one of the reasons that transphobia is so popular is that the way that issues get created, and whether this is small boats, whether this is woke in schools, whatever, is a tripartite system of, you know,

call it discursive power, which is held between the Tufton Street think tanks, the Tory party, and then friendly journalists, where what will happen is a Tufton Street think tank, in this case the policy exchange, will write a paper. That paper will say, I cannot believe that schools

have not been safeguarding pupils by disclosing facts about their gender or sexuality to their parents. And then that will be raised in parliament by a Tory or a friendly Labour MP. Increasing. Rosie Duffield, in this case, wrote the forward to this report

called A Sleep at the Wheel. And then what will happen, and then there will be increasing demands put forward in the press that Starmer, or whoever is in charge of the Labour Party, answer to these particular claims. And then what happens is, you actually see that the process of politics

is that ideas are circulated and promulgated in this three-way conversation, and then the only way, and then if you are going to do politics the way Starmer's chosen to do it, you have to then fight to be included in that three-way conversation, and you're always just responding to it.

And that's why he always seems to be on the back foot about this, even if he himself doesn't particularly care. It's, I have no idea if he's going against his principles or not, for all I know he's not, he just believes what he's saying. But the dynamics,

it doesn't matter if he believes what he's saying or not, the dynamic of it is very, very clear. To see it, and the dynamic is one that he buys into wholeheartedly. He and his friends fought tooth and nail to buy into that dynamic of always being on the back foot. I hate these motherfuckers so much, dude.

I hate these motherfuckers. It's not a particularly, it's not great podcasting, but I just hate these cunts. I think so, I think it's cathartic. So the report itself, which I've taken there... Oh, this policy exchange thing, where they were like,

oh, we should just kill all. Yeah, which is... And that actually... At least that's honest. This is the thing, right, is that it's this process of compromise and heavy air quotes, and moderation and heavy air quotes,

where the policy exchange, or whatever fucking freak globule swamp think tank, motherfucker, is going to emerge from the depths and be like, I have some opinions about what we should do with the trans people. And then Keir, big Keir, goes, right, okay.

What are they, mate? I'm going to be very, very sensible about this, and I'm going to adopt a sensible, evidence-based set of policies, taking some of the more reasoned, sort of like, supported arguments from this, and then the arguments are, oh, I should just fucking kill them, mate.

Yeah, it's like, how do you present a reasonable face to that? And they're giving it a fair shot, but the idea that there are people who consider themselves to be serious and have very high-paying jobs in Tufton Street are going like, why won't Keir Starmer comment

on the average number of penises that a woman has? At least three. At least three, folks. So the report starts, right? And this is actually one of the reasons, by the way, that we're talking to you today, Dev, is your background as a teacher.

That's right. I can tell you, that's not what fucking safeguarding is. That's my statement. So the report, this is the Rosie Duffield authored preface. I've taken a paragraph from it. It says, children deserve to be children. Again, so that means we are going to say,

we are going, that means we are going to prevent you forever. For us, life. It's fucked to pieces already. Again, because I think the implication, right, is that stepping outside of your gender role is inherently a sexual activity. Oh, I mean, this is something that's hooked into,

like, worldwide anti-trans politics. You can hear this from, literally, bipartisan from Russia to the United States. Like, the framing has been decided now that it's leave kids alone, right? Let kids do their own thing, don't fucking trans them up. But not that one thing, though,

because they could only get that idea from, you know, woke transgender ideologues. So parents place profound trust in schools to ensure their children are able to learn and flourish and, most importantly, be kept safe from harm. Of course, we never consider what if the parents are the source of the harm. Yeah, no, that's sort of the main thing

about safeguarding, really, is that that's sort of one of the things that can hurt children is the parents. It's like day one, lesson one, safeguarding 101 is like, maybe if the kid is going, don't tell my parents about this, you shouldn't tell the parents about it.

Like, you always have to take these things like with a grain of salt, and you always have to, like, evaluate it on a case-by-case basis. Like, if the kid's going, don't tell my parents, but like, you know, something, something, something, it sometimes it's worth telling the parents.

Don't tell my parents that you caught me vaping. Yeah, you can tell the parents about vaping. Yeah, parents, your kid's super cool. Yeah. Oh, shit. Your kid's been dangerously cool and sick nasty in the playground, and they are on permanent suspicion because of this, I'm afraid.

Yeah, no, if a kid is transgender, or is, or, well, that's not the best framing for it. If a kid is questioning their gender, because, again, what they're saying is like, kids can't know this kind of thing, and maybe kids can't know it for 100% sure, but most people have a pretty solid idea of who they are pretty early on.

Like, this sort of thing doesn't come to fruition at age 25, this kind of thing is like, present really young. And if they're going, look, I want to experiment with this. Like, I want to try this out for a bit. It is your duty as a teacher to provide a safe environment for them to do that. That's what safeguarding is.

And if they go, don't tell my parents, they will absolutely fucking hate the hell out of this. You don't tell the parents. Well, it's, and what really, to me, this policy exchange report says is it is calling, and number one, as you say, it points out the idea that questioning your gender identity must come from some social force outside you,

unlike the thing that gave you the gender identity in the first place. That didn't come from social. No, that's normal, that's internal. So they say there are politically oriented charities. We were pushing an agenda of gender ideology. Couldn't say Stonewall, because they didn't want to get sued. They didn't want these hands.

And therefore, it is the important, in fact, what has to happen is that schools have to protect children from this by enabling their parents to have more power over them. So in effect, really what this report is all about is increasing the power of parents over their children, essentially. Yep, that's the one. There's a lot of those stuff about guidance in here too,

because one of the things that most notably Stonewall, but some other charities do, is issue guidance and training to schools and to teachers about how to handle these sorts of situations. And that's political, so we can't do that. But one of the other things that a lot of turf groups like to do is try and mimic this and try and issue guidance that's like their own spin on things.

That's fine though, because that's based... Well, that's biology. Yeah, we're exactly. As opposed to ideology. Yeah, so you always remember, if it's coming from Stonewall, it's ideology, if it's coming from We Are Fair Cop or Graham Linehan, it's biology.

But transgender trend, or if it's sex matters, yeah. So it says, so why are so many schools breaking safeguarding principles in order to pursue a highly contested set of beliefs about gender identity? Again, just making up the idea that they're breaking safeguarding principles. Like it requires such...

And to go back to then, remembering that Mr. Forensic lawyer, Kirstarmer, the puddle drinker of Westminster himself, has again just wholeheartedly accepted this report on the basis that, yes, I think that parents should know if their children are questioning their gender identity, even though that is, as I'm given to understand it, literally the opposite of what the guidance says currently.

It is exactly the opposite of what the guidance is currently. So I've told this story a few times, but this is, when I was a teacher, and I can't name the school, obviously, and I can't do any specifics about the child at heart, but that one of my students came out to me as transgender via email, and this was like start of lockdown

when we were half-opened schools, things like this. And when I was like, well, okay, first of all, you can't promise confidentiality. If a child is like, can I tell you something in secret? You have to be like, absolutely, you can't. You can tell me something if you trust me enough, and I will have to pass it on if it's something that is genuinely serious or dangerous.

You cannot promise a child confidentiality. This child came out to me like, hey, I've been thinking about my gender a lot, and I think I'd like to try being presenting masculine at school. And I put this along to the head of year, who clearly hadn't dealt with this kind of thing before at all, because the head of year immediately responded to me, with like, okay, I'm going to message the parent,

I'm going to email the parent, and we're going to get a nice, like, three-way conversation between myself, the child, and the parent, and I went, you need to not do that, you need to not do that right the fuck now because we've not cleared that with a child. Like, you have to clear that with a child. And what ended up happening instead

is that we had a three-way conversation between me, the child, and the head of year, and we hashed out the provisions this child wanted, all that they wanted at this time, this was several years ago, so I'm using they them for them because they hadn't changed pronouns at that time, but all that they wanted was just to not have to use female toilets.

And that's it. That was like, step one of the gender menace was this child being like, hey, I just want to get like a radar key so I can use the disabled toilets instead of the girls ones. And that's it. That's all that it is. You just have to ask the child what they want,

and then like, put in the provisions that you can reasonably allow to allow this child to express themselves in the way they want to. That's it. That would involve like, believing that a child has agency and that a child... That's safeguarding a child!

And that they have like, consciousness. You know, that... I forgot about that, yeah. Yeah, that thing, that kind of small thing. Zombies don't have it, but children apparently do. Yeah, but I like this whole kind of reading all this stuff. This country hates children, man. It really, really does.

It fucking detests children. And I feel like all this sort of like, trans especially kind of in schools and like, you know, I sort of think about school friends of mine, acquaintances of mine who like, just had like, the worst time. Like, and I didn't think we had any trans people, but we had like, we had like, five or six people who are now kind of like, open

and are in like, very loving relationships and everything and seem a lot happier, but were just really, really miserable in school and like, weren't really able to sort of articulate that. And coming from an environment where like, if anything happened, like this school would absolutely go and tell your parents. And like, you know, at that time,

it was just something that we sort of accepted, right? That like, you know, we didn't really kind of think about. And obviously now like, you know, where these types of conversations have changed and like for like, for, you know, for the good. And like, it's good that you kind of have students in Devon, like your story, like it's really good that you have a student who's like,

willing and able to like, trust the teacher enough to be able to tell them something like that. Because like, I'm sure as, I'm sure as shit, like know that when I was a student, and when I imagined many of us were students, we would not do that. And literally unthinkable. Right. And so like, you've kind of got, you know,

you've sort of had like, certain years where things have kind of gotten slightly better for a generation bearing in mind, but like, are kind of going to have the worst material lives of any other generation. Like, we'll let you have like, the gender that you want, but we'll get you with the climate. Oh, you're done in with the climate.

You really can't have the gender you want. We're mostly going to know what you have there. We'll get you with the climate and with the sort of horde of ever expanding, like, vibrating heart neck. And it's just like, every time I think, and I think I've said this on other podcasts as well, but it's just like, it's just remarkable how,

like, for all these conversations about like, safeguarding and wanting to, you know, just kind of protect children and protect children from like groomers and all that stuff. But like, the children are really kind of not involved in any of these sort of anxieties, these types of like, you know,

outward pushes towards like, eradicating trans people. Like, the children and that, and I think that's like, probably like, quite an important thing to bear that, you know, like, really in this kind of conversation, children are at best kind of like, on the edge of the periphery. The one sort of agency that we give to children is committing antisocial behavior

and then being sort of like, exploded with grenade launches in response. That's right. I mean, the children are never part of this conversation. Like, that's the main thing is that every single time we talk about like, these sort of policies that are about children or like safeguarding or things like,

prevent, which I was in to talk about last time, years ago in a past life. But it's never, never involves the children in this. And I, I want to just like briefly, like the reason why that child felt safe is talking to me. It's absolutely no coincidence or accident that the child came out to me

instead of any of their other teachers is because I was at the time, like teaching openly non-binary. Like I was at MX on the door, I had everything, I was wearing nail varnish, things like this. That doesn't make gender, but like it was visible. And I think that having an environment

where a teacher is able to present openly non-binary is something that may well be under threat quite soon based on how this is going. Well, it's, it's that in, in this, in the United States, the libs of TikTok Twitter account is like a, it is a, it was a fringe political belief that is becoming incorporated into one wing of the Republican party.

Here, the libs, there doesn't need to be a libs of TikTok. The government is already libs of TikTok, essentially. No, no, we've nationalized libs of TikTok. Yeah, it's like the male is libs of TikTok, the times is libs of TikTok, and it's not just one wing of, of like politics as both. Yeah, it's like libs of TikTok is the ideology of that one like real estate lady is so embedded

at the heart of everything that the British state has to think about this particular issue. There is no need for that Twitter account to exist here. No, and honestly, it's bloody frightening. It's fucked, isn't it? Yeah, like if every sort of like British trans person you speak to seems off the past couple of years, that's, that's, that's going to be why,

is because it feels pretty bad. It's just in a bad place right now. Yeah, I feel like a Christian scientist with appendicitis. So this is, this is what the, this is some of the findings that they have. Well, they basically sent foyers to 300, maintain secondary schools and academies. Oh, this was real fucking bad.

They say only 28% of secondary schools are reliably informing parents as soon as a child discloses feelings of, and this is what they're calling it now, gender distress. As though it's, Stonewall comes in and spreads around the gender distress particles. 28% of schools are failing to safeguard their children. Exactly, yeah.

28% of schools are just immediately like volunteering that information to parents who like might beat the shit out of their kid when they get home. Like four and 10 secondary schools operate policies of gender self-identification. Yeah, so six and 10 don't. Yeah, yeah.

At least 28% of secondary schools are not maintaining single sex toilets. Good. Doesn't that just also mean like cubicles? That's just cubicle. Like what, what is a single sex toilet anyway? It's like just, just have one that's all cubicles and have one that's all urinals

and we're fucking done. Like that's it. Also, I'd like, I hate to sort of like go back to, to like past traumas here, right? But like if we're going on the, like the convention that like, sort of before all this woke gender nonsense in the prelapsarian days, when, you know, people, people knew how many penises a woman had.

School changing rooms and toilets were nice places to be and not ever a locus of sort of bullying or unpleasant experiences. But that's the bullying that they like. Yes. That's the bullying that. Specifically, often the kind of bullying meant to enforce the, the good gender roles.

That's nice. They also say with regard to secondary schools teaching relationships, sex and health education, 72% of schools are teaching that people have a general identity that may be different from their biological sex. The sex education that I got was my art teacher put on a DVD about your changing body and left the room. And now I'm like this.

You have to have better sex education. Otherwise you will end up like, you can't, you can't do this. You can't make more of me, right? You're not even just going to get trans people, you're going to get weird trans people. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely.

You, like, you think we're not going to do sex education. We're going to have like nice morals based sort of like sex education. It's going to be nice and restrained, right? Smash cut 20 years later, all those kids are barking like dogs at women for attention. And, you know, it goes on, it goes on as well, talking about like relationships and sex and health education.

Like much of this is, again, attacking, and they do name Stonewall down further in the report. This is attacking charity. This is attacking anything from the third sector that attempts to influence the curriculum outside of the, you might say, government approved line. So, I mean, one thing like, and again, you know, they, they, they, I'd say these think tanks

never hesitate to attack unions. And, you know, I think the attack on teachers' labor is sort of oblique here, but it is still there as well, which is, which is that the teaching unions are often blamed for being, say, in bed with organizations like, you know, like Stonewall or whatever. But also, you know, this is a way to promote more, more private schools, more things like academies,

because you can say, oh, in academies, we can get away from the gender nonsense, right? Yeah, everyone's going to be at Kanye's academy sitting on the floor eating sushi, but they're going to know how many penises a woman doesn't have. That's right. The recommendations that the report issues are in line with mandatory safeguarding guidance.

Parents should automatically be informed when a child discloses feelings of gender distress. Distress. Distress, I hate that phrase so much. No school. Well, why are they distressed? But distress is not autocranness. No, no.

This is it. My sister just recently started hormones, and her doctor used gender incongruity now as the term, which I think makes a little bit more sense, maybe. I'm willing to write to the defense of gender dysphoria as a term, because I'm the last of the old school transsexuals. To be honest, I think we should still be using, like, transvestite and transsexual.

That shit goes hard. Yeah, transvestite fucking pops off, actually. It does. It goes off. So it also says, no school should facilitate a child's social transition. So that means if a student- You must piss in the wrong toilet.

If you- Like, it's like school uniform, right? Like, my father is- I have a lot of, like, connections to schools, basically. My father is a governor for a school, and my mother works there as a technician. And, like, the fucking fight that they had to do to, like, persuade that school to just, like,

stop gendering the school uniforms. But I was like, but what if a child- What if a boy comes in wearing a skirt? And the answer is, like, well, what if they fucking do that? Yeah. Okay. So who's going to die if that happens? Like, can you explain to me which child would explode

if they see a lot of fucking wearing a skirt? The Geography Master has a very rare condition. See, I know that school, and I think it does. So, schools also should be- And this is the other, right? This is the other sort of importation of American culture war, which is that the schools should be required to publish all relationship, sex, and health education material online,

and parents should be given an absolute right to see all those materials that the child will be taught at school. Now, hold on a minute. Didn't we, not more than a few years ago, have a massive controversy about this, because they tried to apply this to a school where there were Muslim parents, and people got very afraid about, like, Islamic homophobia.

Oh, don't worry about that. Okay. Were you remembering over there? So, that's your right now. Sorry. Yeah, cut that out. The government must urgently commission an independent- Sorry, an independent.

So, spell check is your friend- Oh, you can really just bang these out, can't you? Or, minor spelling error, spot it. That fucking finished voice. We have them now. We got them. That's it, policy exchange is over. Britain no longer transphobic.

That's right. Spelling is fake. That's right. Yes! The government must urgently commission an independent review of the teaching of relationship, sex, and health education materials, an approach to gender-disgressed children in schools that focus on safeguarding.

So, essentially, we are asking, you know, Turfina Plantation Spoils to redraft all of the, redraft all of these guidance at a time, again, when the, let's say the EHRC has decided to clarify an extremely clear law they don't like. Yeah. I hate the EHRC, and it makes me sound like such a cunt, as I have to say this. The Human Rights Commission. I fucking hate the cunts of the Human Rights Commission.

It can all fuck right off. Yeah. And it makes me seem like a dickhead, but I fuck them. No, genuinely. Oh, god. Institution capture, done. Yeah, it's done. The other thing I would say is, at least this doesn't come at a precarious moment

where we might be about to radically change the nature of inspection of schools, because headteachers are fucking sick of Ofsted. Okay, to be fair, fuck Ofsted. Oh, yeah, absolutely. I'm on board with fuck Ofsted, but the thing is, that's a door opening, and I don't like what's going to come through that door next. Yeah. Well, we're going to get rid of Ofsted, and then the monkey's finger curls,

and we're going to replace it with Rosie Duffield coming into the school, and just like having a gander. Yeah, Rosie Duffield, but like with the X-ray gun from Perfect Dark. Comes to the school. So we also say, by the way, the Ofsted is addressed here. It says it must routinely consider schools approaches to gender distress children as part of its inspection of safeguarding protocols, and that its grade should be reflected in the Ofsted award.

Yeah, I went to an agenda outstanding rated school, which is to say that I fucking suffer badly with my gender. Outstanding school, which is say, if at any point you experience like transgenderism, you're fucked to pieces, you're done. Also, what's very funny is you know- Just turn the shock on. You know that they had to include this next one, right? Because these people are the whiniest motherfuckers in the world,

said the DFE should issue guidance on what is not appropriate for schools to be teaching children at different stages of a child's education. Gender stereotypes must be effectively challenged without conflating beliefs about gender identity with sex. Discussion of gender critical beliefs should always be included. Always. Hell fucking yeah. Always.

Also, you have to say we're cool. Yes. I'm most interested by the previous half of that sentence, because it's like, oh, we should discuss gender roles, but also we should be like, no, these are all cool as hell. Like male body children like biologically love football. That's it. Done.

Yeah, that's it. It's a look boy. They love to work. The new state-approved relationship sexual health education curriculum is boys equals blue, girls equals pink. Girls. That's it. Girls, girl children, girl body child, they come out the pussy pink.

Boy body child, they come out the pussy blue. That's just how it fucking goes. I don't make the rules. I wish I could make the rules, but I don't. No state-funded school should subscribe to diversity, and see this is where we get into like the state-funded, should subscribe to diversity schemes offered by external agencies where such organizations are involved in political campaigning.

I have a response to that, but I can't say it. It would be beautiful to be a liberal at this moment and be like, oh, if your kid's trans, safest thing to do, just go private. You know, I assume that's easy. If your kid's trans, just send him to like a private school. That'll do, right? Just for the record, do not do this.

It's a normal environment in lipstick on the microphone. It's standard out there. The thing is, send him to Eaton, the most accepting school. Yes. Yeah, what you'll get is a child who does not identify as transgender for a number more years. Very good at cross-dressing, though. Yeah, run out the clock.

And you're going to make a lot of podcasters that way. That's right. Yeah, and we can't allow that to happen. Indeed. Anyway, I think that's about all we have. This has been an infuriating hour. I hated this. I came all the way here.

I mean, I do want to say, I have all the sort of bits of comedy. This stuff is horrifying, and I'm sorry, but you guys have to sort of go for it. I mean, don't be sorry about us. The problem is, I'm a fucking 32-year-old woman. I'm fine, whatever. I'm not fine, but it's whatever, right? If I was 15 right now, Jesus Christ.

I cannot imagine. Yeah, and this does have a material harm attains to this, right? That this is not like all fucking policy exchange things come with a body count. Of course they do, because they're fucking vampires. But this is particularly ghoulish, because it will kill children.

And that's not an exaggeration. That's not hyperbole on my part. If anything, I'm sort of quite resigned to it now, because this is a country that loves to do that, but it will. Yeah, if you have a trans child and you do not accept that, and you try to force them back in your closet, you will not get a cis child. You'll get a dead child.

That's just the fact of the matter. Sure. And this is sometimes portrayed by TERFs as being sort of like emotional blackmail. I don't feel particularly... I will do any kind of blackmail against the TERF. I don't. Yeah. I know that this was sort of touched on a little bit earlier,

but all the things that are sort of particularly ghoulish to me are the ways in which these TERFs, whether it's in politics or these organizations, but what they're basically trying to do is... And I think they sort of recognize that, yeah, like if you introduce these types of measures, which do alienate, which do harm, which can kill young people who are trans, or who are sort of non-binary. Or even who aren't.

Sometimes the process of figuring out that you are cisgender involves some gender distress. And just like, I think they sort of recognize that, no, this can have long-term implications in terms of hopefully not body counts, but the very least kind of kids sort of leaving their parents and stuff like that. And I think one of the things that they're sort of trying to bake into this is the idea, but no, we're going to use the instruments of the state to make sure that you can't do that. Like your parent, regardless of how much of a piece of shit they are, how abusive they can be, they will be in your life, whether you like that or not.

And really, and under the guise of parental empowerment, because I've seen, especially there are elements of the communities that I am, like religious communities that I am in. Anyone who sort of comes from a religiously conservative community, like a lot of their messages, I imagine a lot of them, they'll have a fair few messages, which are from your transphobic think tanks, your turning points and everything, which are all sort of along the lines of, oh, they're teaching transgenderism in school,

or they're sort of drag queen knights and stuff like that, or the drag queen library things and everything. And their sort of perennial fear, or at least the fear that they purport, is that what these teachers and what these institutions, their versions of the cathedral, I guess, to put it in terms that we've used before, are actually trying to take your children away from you, right? And so your job, and so the battle lines are being drawn very much just like, oh, if you're a parent and you care about your child,

then you should join these sort of reactionary right wing forces, these sort of trans-exclusionary forces and so on, as a parental duty. And another thing that I think I was trying, I was going to say it a bit earlier, but I was still trying to process my thoughts and everything, was just the ways in which they also guilt a lot of parents into doing that as well, right? The idea of it like, oh, if you don't care that your kids are learning about trans people and schools and everything, then you are also complicit in the abuse,

and do you really want to be in the abuse affair? And so I definitely think that, and I'm not saying, but I'm not claiming that parents are innocent, or they're being sort of manipulated or anything, I think it's much more complicated. But they definitely are. But I think, while I was going to say this, there's definitely a contingent of parents who are kind of like being, who may feel like they're sort of being forced to pick a side.

And again, it's one that like really removes children away from all this, but then like, you live in Britain and like, what's fucking you about that? I do have one last point, which is, we've sort of mentioned some of the more extreme consequences of this. One of the other things, and I'll say this is a serial dropout of educational institutions, is that enforcing sort of like these kind of regressive gender roles has a severe educational impairment. And this may become a problem in a country that seems determined not to have a future,

and seems determined not to have a workforce at all to provide that future. If you're thinking about like, we need more junior doctors, or we need more nurses, or we need more anything, you have to go to school for that. Your programmers especially. But like, that's not going to happen if you make it impossible to survive in these educational institutions and sort of like attain the results that you're capable of. And what you're going to get instead is a nation of podcasters,

and a nation of podcasters is a nation with no future. It's something I could genuinely talk about for hours, but just in the interests of time, and I can see how like nervous and furious Riley is getting that we keep talking. Okay, well, in the interests of time, if we could just put a button on it, the government are trying to kill you if you're transgender. There are a number of think tanks who are trying to kill you if you're transgender. And in the words of late great Paula Grady. Well, this has been certainly an enlightening hour of podcasting, but not without its fun

moments. I want to thank my not off-tier co-host Alice for making the trip down. Oh, my pleasure. And I'd also like to thank my friend, colleague, and freaking collaborator, Devin for making the trip across. It's been an absolute treat, apart from the bits that were awful, which was most of it, but like the accoutrements have been quite nice. Excellent. And of course, Hussein for being there on the phone delivering his bombots. Anyway, this has also been a free episode. There are bonus episodes.

There's a Patreon. It's $5 a month. You can get a second episode every week. There are also episodes of Britonology, episodes of the brain zone. We'll figure out another thing to call it. Britonology. Yeah, we say so. Britonology, very funny. There is a Twitch stream. Yeah, if you like the three of us, Hussein's not typically on it, but...

If you like the three in studio, yeah. There's a Twitch stream on Mondays and Thursdays from 9 to 11 UK time, not the Thursday that's after this is being recorded, but it's the Thursday before this will have been released. So that was completely unnecessary. Hey, yeah, I mean, we've got some live shows coming up if you want to go to those last week as well. More importantly, we do have some Trash Future live show. Yes, you do.

So 14th of May, we are in Birmingham, 15th of May, we are in Leeds, 16th of May, we are in Manchester, and we are looking at Glasgow due to another confluence of Transphobia and the Trash Future podcast where we had to change the venue, possibly. We keep on running into it out there in the world. And finally, Milo, who's not here, has just released his limited series of the show, Rome, with Tides of History's Patrick Wyman on every episode. There, him, Phoebe, and Patrick have that on Bandcamp, so you can go and get it. There'll be a link in the description of this episode.

A lot of plugs today. We're plugging. Hey, and if you're in Melbourne, you have to go to Milo's show. Yeah, he needs to do that. He needs it. It's the law. Please. Mm-hmm.

Yeah. So do... Tell him I sent you. Yes. Give him a little kiss. Give him a little... Yeah, don't explain, though. No, you better...

Yeah, tell him I sent after you give him a little kiss. Yeah, like a while after. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, like hours. Like shout it midway through the show. Yeah, perfect. That's the guidance. Milo signs off on it.

That's the safe party. In line with the guidance the government has sent out, Yell Devon sent me halfway through Milo's show. Yeah, okay, okay. And our theme song is Here We Go by Jinsang. You can check it out on Spotify. And we will see you on the bonus episode, which will be coming out in a couple of days.

Bye, everybody. Bye. See ya.