TRASHFUTURE - Hail Monitron! feat. David Adler and James Schneider

Episode Date: December 8, 2020

David Adler and James Schneider of Progressive International go deep into Amazon What *actually* is Amazon? How does it work? What on earth is Amazon Explore? And will we bow down before Monitron and Amazon Panorama? Also, we read an article about Boris Johnson that includes the phrase "hail the dawn!" If you want access to our Patreon bonus episodes and powerful Discord server, sign up here: https://www.patreon.com/trashfuture We support the London Renters Union, which helps people defeat their slumlords and avoid eviction. If you want to support them as well, you can here: https://londonrentersunion.org/donate Here's a central location to donate to bail funds across the US to help people held under America's utterly inhumane system: https://bailproject.org/?form=donate If you want shirts, you can order them on our new web storefront! Get it here: https://www.trashfuture.co.uk/shop *WEB DESIGN ALERT* Tom Allen is a friend of the show (and the designer behind GYDS dot com). If you need web design help, reach out to him here:  https://www.tomallen.media/ Trashfuture are: Riley (@raaleh), Milo (@Milo_Edwards), Hussein (@HKesvani), Nate (@inthesedeserts), and Alice (@AliceAvizandum)

Hello. Hello to all of my Bathurst friends and well-wishers. Welcome back to this... Yeah, the 205th conference of the Trash Future Bath Party. Yeah, this is the East London Bath Party. Welcome to Bath Future, the podcast about how the future is Bath. You're listening to Riley's Deep Bath with an apostrophe. I hate when I get kicked out of the Bath Constituency Party for like being a bit too controversial at the meetings. Yeah, yeah. And we are here with us old friends and new.

We are here with David Adler, the general coordinator and three or four time guest and James Schneider, first time guest, the comms director of Progressive International. How's it going, guys? It's going pretty well, I think. Being back here is always a joy and a pleasure. Being back here like we've let you in with all the cables and stuff. Where the basement family live. That's right. Backstage where all of the podcast is made.

Where the magic happens. So one of the things, just jumping right into it, because one of us has slightly limited time today. We're going to dispense with all of the usual fuckery up front. We did all we did that with the bath stuff. You got your upfront laughs. That's right. We're going. We're going right into vegetables party.

Yeah, the laugh party. We're going right into vegetables, but then we have some dessert for you at the end. So guys, guys, we're the vegetables. My two, my two, my two most favorite Brussels sprouts. Can you tell me what exactly is Amazon? We like to talk about Amazon as being a kind of new East India company. Just a giant private transnational empire accountable to no one,

although sort of in cahoots with various imperial forces that happen to occupy state houses around the world. Is it coming out of retirement for one last job? Well, I mean, it's such a funny like the slide into this corporate imperialism feels like a frog in hot water. Like, you know, I think we still don't appreciate the fact that Jeff Bezos made $10 billion in one day in July. But yeah, I think, you know, that's probably the closest historical analogy we can make.

But I mean, it's even it's that, but it's even more sinister than that because it's the pace of growth is so much more dramatic. It has all of those, it has all of those elements from before. But I mean, this this company is not only sucking in enormous amounts of huge, stupendous amounts of wealth, but is expanding into more and more areas of our lives in ways that you generally don't see. I mean, David's got this nice analogy that it's a nice metaphor

that Amazon's like an iceberg and you can only see the tip and there's all of this stuff submerged under water. But it's like unlike all the other icebergs in the world, it's growing. Oh, no. So I sort of like to think about this, right? Is that is Amazon a logistics company? Is it a stuff company? Is it a data company? Is it a cloud services provider, which I think a lot of people underweight?

And how do these things work together? And how do these things work together to make sure that like, no matter what happens, Jeff Bezos always gets richer. Right. If you develop, if you develop the next big app, let's say, you know, you guys develop, you know, Uber for, let's say progressive international becomes the Uber for something. The Uber for dogs. You just, you can hire a dog for one.

By the minute. Yeah, let's say progressive international pivots to a sort of something that allows you to exist for sure. Yeah, it's called, well, WAG is kind of like that, the soft bank start up, but it's you can rent a dog walker by the, never mind. These ones would be leftist and they would be from different countries or something. Comrade dogs. In this case, you'd get like a leftist with a van full of dogs

who would pull up and you would like be able to take my uncle. You turn on my uncle. So, but if you were, if you were to do that, right, and you were to get tons and tons of venture capital, most of what you would spend that venture capital on after you've rented your office in San Francisco or shortage or whatever, you would spend that on Amazon Web Services. You would, all this, all this money, all this dynamic tech

that we like to talk about and make fun of on this show. Most of that money flows to Amazon Web Services through startups, which means Amazon Web Services for this quarter, which I was very interested in, outperformed Amazon every other division. It was 52% of its operating income this quarter, which means essentially... It's great.

It means that like the thing that gets you to be able to buy a package of sex dildos and get it the next day is entirely ancillary to just the server racks that everything runs off of. Yeah. I mean, it's the iceberg of icebergs because we talk a lot about how people just literally don't know often of the existence of Amazon Web Services, let alone the fact that the other members of the so-called fangs,

Facebook, Amazon, Netflix, Google, run on Amazon Web Services. I mean, Netflix is on an Amazon server now, you think in terms of infrastructural power and who's really got them by the balls here. It's... Once again, it's Jeff Bezos. The man who has the world's balls in a vice. He is using them to reskin his shiny head.

He looks a bit like a ball. Yeah. And what I find very interesting, James, you mentioned this, is you don't know if they're in an industry even until they've dominated it and they're inescapable. So I've been doing some reading about how... This is 2012. They've been trying to become the only place for high fashion,

for example, but I'm sure there are some other examples, like Prime Video and so on. Yeah, I think because what they've built and fundamentally how we should think about how we're going to take it on, is they've built the infrastructure for planning an economy. They've built the infrastructure for the full integration of the global movement of information and goods

and pre-guessing, pre-working out who is going to want what when with an absolutely incredible amount of data and incredible logistics service built on top of the web system. So I think for us to be looking at it, it's like, yeah, of course, this is a bad company that does bad things, they do really bad things. I'm sure we'll talk about a lot of the really,

just obviously objectively awful stuff that they do. But what's the step change in it? Corporate exploitation is as old as corporations, but what is the thing that is new and it's the fact that it's pointing towards a future of a fully globally integrated planned economy that is planned within this corporate giant. And I think that's how we need to be thinking about it

if we're going to find a way that builds an alternative to that and that cracks it open in some way. And you guys, one of the reasons we're talking to you guys today about this is that you recently said like, had an article come out about looking at how to organize against Amazon. Organizing contra-Amazon, it can't be traditional, it can't be localized. It has to be spread throughout the supply chain like a web

rather than looking at pinch points, right? Yeah, and I think this goes back to the point we were making about the iceberg, which is that, you know, Amazon succeeds through this massive scheme of concealment. There's just so much we don't see of those operations. And if we did see if they were made visible to us as consumers, as workers, as activists, especially, would be entirely objectionable.

Now, part of that is because they're further down the supply chain. So sitting here in London in the basement where I'm playing around with all the cables was established at the beginning of the podcast. And the Assad post is. What I see of Amazon is the, you know, click here to buy and the package arrives on my doorstep one, two, three days later. Not springing for prime, are we?

No, no, no. What you don't see even within Amazon's own supply chain is what's happening in the production distribution and indeed in the delivery, you know, what's happening in these warehouses. That's the most proximate piece of that supply chain, right? Where people in our own communities oftentimes just blocks away are working these backbreaking hours, peeing in bottles,

listening to blasting loud music to keep them awake at late hours. I saw that. Packages, things in being paid shit wages. So that's the first step of this. But I think that when it comes to this article, and I think we'll get into how and why we wrote it off the back of this global day of action on Black Friday, was to say it's not just about Amazon's own supply chain,

it's about linking struggles that are adjacent to it. So one of our partners in this was the joint, the Hawkers Joint Action Committee of India. These are people who don't work for Amazon, ostensibly have nothing to do with Amazon, right? And were we to bring that up to Jeff Bezos would say, I don't have anything to do with the Hawkers who work locally in India.

But what they say is, you know, we rely fundamentally on particular local economies where I go to farmers and I buy their produce and I go to my local markets and I sell that produce. And Amazon's, you know, imperial efforts at vertical and horizontal integration, bringing everything into one giant corporation, is just eroding, it's not erasing these local economies

on which millions and millions and millions, hundreds of millions of people's lives and livelihoods depend. So to take on Amazon is of course to organize all the workers impacted by Amazon, which includes also garment workers in Bangladesh who are working for Amazon suppliers that will then ultimately be making the final buck for Jeff Bezos, but also linking together these struggles

that seemingly have very little to do with each other, right? Why would an activist fighting for the preservation of the Amazon rainforest care about what's happening to Hawkers in India? Well, of course, it is part of this same sort of corporate infrastructure. And the example you bring up in the article is that like Amazon promises to have a fleet

between delivery vehicles, which sounds lovely, but that requires the massive intensification of lithium mining in South America. So it's that it is essentially, it is an entity that because of its sort of size and rapaciousness is unable to act without decimating someone somewhere. And then also, you know, looking at from our side, which is the collective response,

the progressive response that what we can do about it, the reason why it's such a good target is because it brings all those things together, but there's a name, there's a face, there's something that we can use to articulate those different struggles together. The environmental struggle in Bolivia, alongside government workers in Bangladesh,

alongside tax justice campaigners in the U.S. and data privacy activists in Berlin. I mean, this is, it bears repeating, this is the richest man in history. Like, you know. Manta Musa, but okay. Right, okay. I'm not even doing anything cool with it,

like Manta Musa was. When he collapses economies, it's on purpose rather than by accident. Yeah. He's not somehow creating a city in the desert. He's just spending a bunch of money on his stupid O'Neill cylinders. I know.

Bring back Mithridates. That's what I say. Yeah. Jeff, if till Jeff Bezos starts a religion that involves getting a bull sacrificed over top of you, I'm not interested in what he has to fucking say. Least, least cool richest man. He's got to be the lamest rich guy in history.

I was looking at his Twitter. He stopped tweeting with his second to last tweet, which was in February, was a picture of him and Lizzo at a Laker game. And it was like, I just took a DNA test. Turns out I'm 100% a Lizzo fan. Oh, yeah. This is the guy.

This is the richest man in history. You could get lessons from like prospector, radiator, whatever in posting with that much money. And he just hasn't. Yeah. So I want to talk a little bit more about what you're talking about though, right? Like, which is that it seems like Amazon,

in addition to Amazon web services, Amazon, like logistics, Amazon fashion, Amazon Prime video, we see really like it's also just Amazon contradiction heightening. It is a massive global contradiction heightener that makes all of these things completely inescapably together, but also that has some very ominous, as president.

One of one of my favorite of my president forever, Donald Trump's sayings was fierce dogs and ominous weapons at his disposal. Yeah, ominous dog. Nope. It's a kind you might hire by the minute at some point. ominous leftist dogs were hiring by the minute. So Amazon's Amazon's ominous dogs,

ominous weapons and fear. Now you got me doing it on this weapons and fierce dogs. And they were include basically like, like we say the pandemic has accelerated everything and it has also accelerated surveillance in Amazon warehouses because there we had before like wearables and so on that would tell people if they're picking too slowly. But now we have a health Pinkerton.

Yeah. He's just the just the same Pinkerton, but he's wearing like a big red cross. It's this. It's the it's a Pinkerton, but like for team building. So he leads you in a song, but he's got a truncheon for if you get a note wrong. So there are a few things they have.

We've confirmed they are indeed hot. They have indeed hired the Pinkerton's like the railway barons of old to do like basically to do like what I assume some kind of global distributed Peterloo situation. You know the you know the Pinkerton agency has a podcast. Oh, yeah. Yeah. We found this out on the stream the other day.

It's a 22 minute podcast called Pinkerton insights and it's the most Pete Buttigieg shit imaginable. I can't believe they still exist. I mean, I'm not surprised that something like them exists, but I can't believe that it's literally never got like assumed into like G4S or something. I'm surprised that they never changed their name because like like think about like water for them.

It's amazing brand though. They're marketing to people who want some fucking evil people to shut down labour organizing. Why not go with the guys that got the track record of that? We're passionate about evil. That's right. They're the Oxbridge of a strike break. So but the it's it is very it also again,

if you want to say contradiction Heitner that this is completely the same thing just bigger and worse, but they also have they've moved from just like tracking like worker movements and delivering them a helpful shock if they move in the wrong direction to now using a program called monitor on. Well, that sounds good. Awesome.

Another innovation from the ominous department. Their comms department are really doing a nice job. That is. Yeah. They have a new innovation called the overseer. Why does it have these Gatling guns? There are a lot of skulls on this. Yeah.

Look, don't worry about the skulls. That's just have a great time here at Amazon. As long as you don't dissipate the black room. Yeah. Yeah. When the overseer's eyes glow red, don't let that happen. Yeah. We love to do onboarding and you get your high vis and you get

your locker and then you get introduced to the iron king. What does it do? Basically, this is one of these things where the trajectory of developing this has been happening for a while, which is sensors are getting cheaper and smaller because the whole like again, you've heard us talk with this about like the great reset and all this, how it's about Internet of things and sort of increasing surveillance and all this stuff.

Sensors are getting smaller and cheaper because they have to go in more things. And so monotron is basically being added to every piece of every thing in the Amazon warehouse and that's integrated through Amazon Web Services and is integrated with another really fun program called AWS Panorama. Oh, that sounds good. Yeah.

What could be bad about Panorama? Just nice photos. That's what it is. Just a great documentary series. That's right. Yeah. Or not. Yeah.

Where John Ware comes and says you're not working hard enough. I just like my confusion. I'm dying to hear about what Panorama does. My confusion about the monotron. It's called monotron, right? I'm being there, right? Monotron. I just don't understand how much choreography of the human

body is possible. Like there's only so much surveillance that is necessary. It's sort of, I imagine it's sort of... A year of little faith. We're going to go so much deeper before we're through with this stuff. There's a monotron sensor on your dick to see if you're aroused by any of the products and they're just collecting that data for reasons. Yeah.

No, I get the objection right, which is like, there is an up about to how efficient you can make a person by doing this stuff. You know, we can't move in a million direction. We've got four lengths. But it's not about the efficiency at that point then. I like the others who ask many more. It's like, yeah, it's purely a coercive measure at that point. I think there's actually something good about monotron.

Yes, of course. Everything about monotron is good. Obviously the intense surveillance is horrible. But the fact that they think that they have to do it, the fact that they think that they have to do this invasive monitoring of trade union organizing, the fact that they coach all their managers with these videos about how to spot people who might do labor organizing

and basically how to deal with them. They must be really frightened of something. And it's not like the fact it's going, if people, if pay goes up a little bit or like productivity slacks a little bit, that they're suddenly going to not make any money. I mean, they've made so much money this year that Jeff Bezos could give every single Amazon employee in the world, like 860,000 people,

105,000 US dollar pandemic bonus, every worker, 105,000 US dollar bonus, and still be as rich as he was at the beginning of the pandemic. They're getting 0.1% of that though. The fact that they're doing all of this union busting surveillance, all this aggressive stuff is to prevent something from happening. And that they are scared. And these are actually not the actions of a secure rule of the world

that's in charge of all its surveys. So to be clear, what I find really interesting is they always introduce this stuff for the reason of non... It's always introduced for this really benign reason, but then it transpires that it gets used for the stuff you're talking about. Sorry, what was the benign reason for introducing the monotron? So the benign reason for introducing the monotron was a combination of things.

It was looking at like abnormal temperatures and movements of like items throughout the factory, including like equipment, but also it's connected with this panorama system that then monitors and analyzes the actual people. And again, they say it's for making sure that people are safely complying with like PPE and staying distant from one another.

Being themselves and having fun with it. The problem is, right? Yeah, just like trying to like feel the space, you know? Don't think of it as surveillance. Think of it as more of a vibe check. An audience. Yeah. It's you're doing improv for Bezos.

That's right. And what's interesting, right? Is this idea of this great crisis has ramped up this surveillance, right? Because we think, oh, we have to surveil everybody, but because this surveillance is being done by companies that have a real interest in surveilling their workers, you can never trust that it's not going to be done for that same thing. But also, David, going back to something you said earlier,

why keep... How automated can you make the human body? I am, and I think Alice knows we're about to go with this. I'm once again pushing my big Italian Futurism button that I'm much... I think so. We're doing full mesolization. Read the last 20 pages of Gravity's Rainbow

for eight hours a day until you achieve a transcendent state. Where like if the... One of the like core sort of strange artistic philosophies of fascism in the Italian Futurist, they were obsessed with the idea of the transformation and directionality of the human body with industrial production. That they loved warfare because it was so dynamic and mobile and the smell of thermite and all this stuff.

But the idea was to turn the human body into a machine as much as possible and to have like this modernist idea of greatness that way. And I think the sort of infinite and infinitely variable surveillance that I think a lot of workers are now being forced to undertake is kind of the realization of the Futurist's dream. But stripped out of all the ideology. I mean, I think to go back to James...

Yeah, that's why it's so funny. Yeah, that's why it's so tragic. I mean, you go back to James's point, right? It's both. It's both. To give some background here about where James and I are in our organizing against Amazon, we had this big day of action on Black Friday.

We had this coalition of workers and activists representing 200 million people around the world who were engaged in strikes and solidarity actions to say as it's the slogan of the campaign that we're going to make Amazon pay. Now, Amazon's response to this organizing has been to basically do a big comms push around the holiday season to say,

we are a big happy family and put out these cheesy American, you know, Christmas ads of siblings and family members who work in the same warehouse. Oh my God, that's so fucked up. Oh no, stepmother, you're stuck in the fulfillment drone. But I mean, this is my point is to say, you know, were this to be matched one for one with an ideology that could give meaning

to the mechanization of the human body? Of course, it'd be more dangerous on the one side, right? It wouldn't have the vulnerabilities that James is describing where it seems so contradictory. Yeah, but it wouldn't be so banal. It wouldn't be so fucking banal. That's why I find it so funny is that we've done the weirdness of marinesi, right?

Of having like futurist dining, where you eat a big place of nuts and bolts and then a guy sprays petrol in the face. But like it's been designed entirely like algorithmically by this point. You know what it means? It means we're basically having a marinetti themed futurist restaurant, but with like Norman Rockwell art

on the walls and with just a McDonald's amount of sort of standardization in the back. Yes, and it's all by accident. The Marinetti burger. The McBalt. So I think Marinetti really is. I'm sorry for saying the McBalt when the McNutt was right there.

I apologize. Milo, I apologize. We are holding you accountable for missing that. That's right. Never hold me accountable, miss me with that shit. To the listeners, I will not be held accountable. I refuse. So I mean, I think is right.

Like we've been talking about Amazon surveillance for a while and one of the reasons we bring it up is in addition to having this like actual, like looking again at how the strategy for resisting Amazon has to like touch everything more than Amazon sort of directly touches also looking at how Amazon has used the pandemic to step up things like surveillance and union monitoring and so on and that these these

contradictions continue to heighten. Wouldn't you know it? Because by the way, here's another thing. AWS Panorama not just limited to Amazon. A lot of people are using it. Oh, that's good. So basically already a panorama unless you do it everywhere. So I guess in that sense, AWS Panopticon linguistically,

it satisfies me. Yeah, I love an AWS monorama. Yeah, it's more of an AWS peep show actually. So basically, so Siemens is now using it to monitor traffic flows from the FT. Siemens is using it to monitor traffic flow in unspecified cities. Oh, that's good.

I like it when the cities are unspecified. That never raises any alarm. Just say the cities. You're only making your case worse if you just if you unspecified. But if you remember, right, like I think it was Oxford had all of these traffic like traffic monitoring cameras that it then repurposed to monitor people's faces for if they're wearing face masks in around March.

Wow, I didn't hear about that. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, yeah, you know, we always say that the politics of roll out are different than the politics of roll back. Yeah. We're not thinking about the pat dependency of this pandemic at all. I mean, you're raising exactly this point.

I just it's amazing to think about when this is all over how much of this stuff is just going to stick around. Because you know what Microsoft have now patented. I don't know if you saw this. Microsoft have patented an attention and an attentiveness and mood monitor and AI based attentiveness and mood monitor for meetings. That's fucking life.

Clippy. That'll be fine because they'll just like release new versions of it or just get worse and worse and worse until the point to which it doesn't work at all. And that'll be fine. Yeah, it's just it's just going to be clippy being like smile more. You're going to get fired.

This is a great future to live in if you like the shot color thing. If you don't, I'm sorry. I'm sorry for you guys. The future is just like Alice's kink. Yeah, I'm thriving. I'm thriving. I'm having a great time.

So I think that's I'm about I'm about full of vegetables. A little bit of dessert. Sure. But hey, David, if someone's feeling pissed off about Amazon, is there a website they can visit? There absolutely is Riley. If you type in make Amazon pay. That was a beautiful handoff, by the way.

Just a perfect. That's right. Right. So now that all the brushstrokes have been shown, do you want to finish the URL? Yeah, no. So if you go to make Amazon pay.com, you'll find, you know, the coalition that has mobilized in this in this big campaign,

which includes includes our progressive international, as well as massive global trade union federations like Unique Global Union, the ITUC, as well as organizations like Momentum, Closer to Home and the Sunrise Movement of the United States. And also the second phase is which kicked off this week, which was the Parliamentary Alliance MPs around the world who have pledged to stand with this new movement to make

Amazon pay. You can find their names as well. And of course, join our list of common demands and support striking workers through our strike fund. And now they're all going to be spied on. Yeah. Yeah. Although quite a few of them were already.

Corbin was spied on by Amazon and Pinkerton's last year, which I love. It was an event I organized. It's brilliant. Really? Yeah. If you're not getting spied on, you're not doing something right. Very true.

And the more people they have to spy on, the less the quality of spying will be. Amazon and the Pinkerton's a passionate about ending anti-Semitism. I don't see. So what we need to do is everyone needs to go to Amazon warehouses and just fill them for a while. You know, it's not illegal. Do some audits.

Do some audits. That's right. Do so be one of those weird YouTube guys who just goes to warehouses and like films. And then a guy comes up to ask you to not film and you just get in his shit and be like, can I see your security bag? The most alarming thing is when you're doing an audit of an Amazon warehouse and then suddenly you see Dave Courtney,

they're doing the same thing. And you're like, Oh, no, no, I've made a terrible mistake. It's illegal at all. He would never do something legal. No. So look, I've found a couple of more Amazon services. There is one thing I think is that, I mean, this isn't really sort of dessert, but Amazon Finance has now is using their

own proprietary AI with like banks like Barclay Card to give credit scores to people so they can buy stuff on Amazon. We've gone further than Robo signing for mortgages and just like now we're not even doing the signing. Now it's just Robo. It's Robo signing for like, I don't know, like an Avengers flat brim that was made in Bangladesh. That sounds pretty good.

I mean, I can speak to the fact that the Amazon systems are just absolutely dog shit after like this week, it took me four attempts to try and buy an Amazon gift card for my nephew in America. And I still haven't been able to do it because every time they insist that this transaction is fraudulent. Even to the point where they asked me for a copy of my credit card statement to determine that it was my credit

card and I sent it to them and they said, no, you're committing fraud on yourself. I'm like, what? So anyway, I'm glad that these people thought that maybe you were. Yeah. Maybe I was. Maybe you don't let the algorithm knows better than you do.

Yeah, maybe. I'm not really me and only Amazon knows this. Amazon, they're like existentialist philosophers. Amazon knows it. And every other company that buys their services. That's right. Amazon knows that you're only really you when you're drunk. Oh, yeah.

So basically, so all of these AI and machine learning methods for credit scoring, completely unauditable, absolutely inside these companies, black boxes and almost certainly something that is going to get securitized at some point. So watch out for that. Absolutely. That could be put to any kind of nefarious purpose or to like underwrite financial regulations.

No, no. Incidental. I love to trade collateralized Avengers box. That's right. So the financial stability board notes specifically that applications of AI and machine learning to credit scoring could result in new and unexpected forms of interconnectedness between financial markets and big tech institutions.

I hate when there's new and unexpected forms of connectedness between tech markets and the last thing you said. That sounds like something. What could go wrong? What happens to you when you're at the Eyes Wide Shut Party? Yeah. That's right. New and unexpected forms of interconnectedness supplied by Amazon.

Yeah. Yeah. Jeff Bezos comes and just he's like that. Where else do you get the mask for the Eyes Wide Shut Party? eBay.co.uk, hopefully. He's like the piss guy at Burghine. He just wants to touch your balls with his head. That's right.

He's like the piss guy at Burghine. He's in the toilets at Burghine and he wants you to piss on him. Oh, sorry. He is the piss guy at Burghine. Sorry. I should clarify that. How do you think the piss guy at Burghine is always there? How does he have that much free time?

He's a billionaire. If you're a billionaire, like you've got to be like the last thing, like what is the last thing I can want? And it's probably being pissed on. I just want to say I'm 99% sure the last time I was on the podcast, we talked about the piss guy at Burghine. He talks about this every episode. Okay.

All right. Just want to check in with that. But here's one that's really funny. It's a new service called Amazon Explore. I'm going to ask everybody. Quick guess. What does it do starting with James? Amazon Explore.

It's a genetics thing. I reckon. Explore yourself. No, that's not stupid enough. It's way stupider. It matches you to a product based on your buying, based on your consumption patterns. No, they already do that.

Is it the founding of the settler colonial state of Brazil? It does involve South America. It does involve South America. It's travel. It's an Airbnb. It's a contact, like uncontacted Amazonian peoples to then give them modern diseases. Alice and David are closest,

but let's say it's a pandemic friendly travel service. Zoom travel. You get them to this big Zoom travel. James got it. It's GeoGuessr, basically. No, but it's GeoGuessr with like a very strange psychopolitics angle. Is that that game where you just get dumped in the middle of somewhere on street and you have to work out where it is?

Yeah, I love that game. Hold on. So what is this thing? So Amazon Explorer is basically a GeoGuessr or Amazon Explorer. It's basically a Zoom travel agent where... What? It's a Zoom where basically... It's the equivalent of having a friend in a different country. The banality of this is just...

So you pay like, I don't know, like a hundred pounds or whatever. And then like someone who lives in Sao Paulo, like just walks you around the city on Zoom. That sucks. That's literally Google Street View. Yeah, wait. You can just do that for free. Yeah, but you don't have, you know,

you don't have the intimacy and the... Oh my God, there's no way to sell it. That's what they're selling. That's what they're selling. I am being paid less than your age. Do you have the copy? Yeah, listen, I don't like finding out what's in Sao Paulo if I don't get the girlfriend experience with it.

Jao Eichmann is showing me around Sao Paulo. Cool. Yeah, my girlfriend, Jao Eichmann. Yeah, that's phase two. And these are some of my favorite busts. Oh God, don't be Hitler, don't be Hitler, don't be Hitler. Why does he keep showing me the Naval Mechanic School? Look, my father named me Adolf Hitler,

but he didn't realize who that was. He just thought it was a cool guy. So basically, here is an article from someone in a telegraph travel writer who must have been running out of things to write, who did an Amazon Explorer trip to South America, where his host, Daniella, taught him a personalized over Zoom empanada cooking class.

So it's like a combination. It's not that difficult to cook an empanada. Well, Daniella, he says, was brilliant. She was vivacious, had superb English, and in true Blue Peter fashion. She's a very good German. Had prepared several stages of the empanada beforehand. She talked me through the history of the humble dish,

the ingredients, the chopping and cooking, and show me how to master the crimping. I didn't do the lesson. With a fork, you can use a fork. Yeah. I'm sorry. Oh, this is basically like how to make one of those annoying recipes in real life.

Like you get like a 10 hour explanation before you get to how to make an empanada. But what it is, is it's like you've gone to visit a friend in Sao Paulo, but Amazon. Oh, sorry, not Sao Paulo. I don't know why I was getting on Sao Paulo. I think this is in Argentina. But Amazon is mediating the transaction

and taking a big cut of that person having a zoom call with you. That big slice of your empanada. That's right. Yeah. I eat your empanada. So it sounds like chat roulette without the masturbation. Yeah. Yeah.

Or with it. We don't know. I don't think anything could have as many masturbating men as chat roulette. We go back to just the banality of it all. You know, like they're going to make this so vanilla. If you're going to do Amazon Explorer, let people do all the perverted things that they would do.

Exploring the world as people explore it. Don't give them any ideas. I've already given them a weird gene idea. I mean, that's terrifying. They would definitely be doing that next week. No, they are trying to get into health. First of all, first of all, I'm actually Amazon. I'm actually Alexander Lukashenko is running my tour group.

I'm just saying. Via Zoom to look at very good potato farm. We are on tractor. When you are on tractor, there is no coronavirus. Very good. I'm learning so much about that. Such a good Lukashenko. The guy does a great Lukashenko.

That's a great Lukashenko. He also legitimately did say that the tractor will keep everyone healthy the other day. That's right. Yeah. That might have such a pure Soviet vibe. Honestly, like compare that to whatever Matt Hancock says, is my Lukashenko more wrong?

Yeah. I'd like to see Lukashenko have a go at Parkour actually. So back to the empanada thing. The great way to learn about your body. Back to the empanada thing. As the clout, the like hour long zoom call is over. I wish I could send them to you. She said not being able to eat at the end is a bit sad.

Now you can with Amazon Mail. Yeah. Isn't that just like that really catches me as remember, that mean hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, wait. Yeah. This, this telegraph journalist didn't make the empanada at the same time with Daniel. Yeah.

He just, he just watched. I told you, I've already. It's already giving way to allowing people to be perverted. He says, I like to watch Korean thing. Yeah. People like watch each other eat or whatever. That's, that's the most perversion. No.

That's what blue van man is. What really strikes me about this right is as she says the end, I wish I could send them to you. It's very much like that. Like that. There's that right wing meme. Aborted GF, which is Amazon G Amazon. I would just send you empanadas, Anna.

I could send you empanadas. You look cold. You should get this Avengers sweater. Aborted GF provided by Amazon. They are. It is just more and more of that like of the normal social interaction that they are basically like privatizing and monetizing to the point of a zoom call as someone who shows

you how to make an empanada has been branded as travel. Yeah. Somehow. That's right. Again, I cannot stress how easy it is to make an empanada enough. It's, it's a very. What's wrong with the, with the YouTube tutorial?

I love a YouTube tutorial. Exactly that. I cannot stress enough how easy it is to be the travel writer for the telegraph. Besides the interaction are, are not really pulling. You just have to be born into one of certain families and you don't basically have to do anything else. Actually.

That's pretty much it. Yeah. So I look, I love like Amazon. Just again, because when you have infinite capital, whether that's through capital markets, like the company, like Netflix, or because you just have an unlimited amount of money to invest like Amazon, you just try so much fucked up shit. You try so much weird, bizarre stuff that goes nowhere because

you have more of an incentive to just like see if there's a market to capture and just spend enough money seeing it just, you know, what if we monopolize something like a personalized YouTube masterclass? What is that when I sign up for a gastronomy tour over zoom of North Jersey and then the guy answers the call and goes, not normally I'd be shot for being Italian. I do like, I do like North Korea.

I do a North Korea tour. Oh yeah. That would be good. I'll show you how to make an empanada. The idea that all this is happening at the same time as our governments are like, no, we can't spend money. No, we can't. We can't.

We can't have any, anything, anything nice and just as you would like a nice thing. Amazon Explorer. $900 COVID relief. Like how many? Yeah. How many people for the salaries of just all the people whose job it is to administer Amazon Explorer.

Yeah. That's like, that's a government program for like a region or a state. This is the reason why we're not going to Mars. If you care about that. Speaking of that. We're doing empanadas. I would be remiss if I didn't mention this amazing quote that

James and I were sent the other day where someone was like, so you're the fucking richest person in history. What are you going to do with all that money? And Jeff Bezos. Right. This is in the context of like roiling labor struggles in Amazon warehouses. The employment of the Pinkertons to intimidate and spy on trade

unions and social movements around the world. Jeff Bezos goes, yeah, I guess really the only way I can imagine using this money is space travel. And he was like, what do you think you can think of? What do you only think? What if there are unions in space? Yeah. There will be unions in space.

Yeah. Trade federation. Alice, can you play the communism drop please? Oh God. Where is it? Also, yeah, play the documentary Red Faction Guerilla. Oh, yeah. Red Planet, Red World, baby.

Yeah. Now that's some hontology. freeze on Mars. So we've got, I've got a reading series to bring us to the end. Nothing to do with Amazon, but it is very much as anything can be nothing to do with almost certainly. AWS was involved in me getting the text of this.

However, I want to finish this off with a reading series because my God, I don't read this guy often, but when I do, it's always a fuck out because he is one of the biggest brain mother fuckers in Britain. That's right. Brendan. No, no. I think he is a bigger brain than Brendan.

Actually, just he uses it more subtly. Is he wearing? Well, he does have some opinions. He's wearing a veil. He does have some opinions on different kinds of head gear. Hell yeah. That's right. That's right.

Passport to Lillico. Let's go, baby. Welcome. No, we are, we are all, we are all the Lillum, but instead of, instead of an Evangelion ways, we are all loving Andrew Lillico's brilliant new article for the telegraph. Can I read, can I read the Nicarb tweet before you start? I'm going to read the title.

Then you do the Nicarb tweet. So the title Boris must seize on this vaccine breakthrough to lead us into a brighter future. A moment of opportunity is coming. A fiesta, a research of relief, a recovery. Oh man. So many words. My favorite Andrew Lillico tweet.

One thing, this is verbatim by the way. So quote, one thing about this photo and I've noticed this in practice when I visited majority Muslim countries where veiling was more common, when you can only see their eyes, that makes women look really sexy. I can't help feeling that's not entirely the intended effect. You're right there, Andrew. The colonizer.

Yeah. The woman in the car, she, she irritates the colonizer. I just want to, I just want to clarify, verify one piece of this. The word fiesta is in the title of this. Oh yeah. A fiesta. A fiesta. No time for a fiesta.

Sorry. The vagabonds is coming. A great time with like face masks being a thing right now. His worldview is absolutely amazing. It just sort of thinks that, well, you know, if only Boris had more, you know, Vim and Vigor than everything would just happen. It all just stems from. He's essentially what Andrew Lillico is a fundamentally medieval

outlook on the world where he believes that like the, this sort of the energy and Vim of the king provides the sort of the body politic with its sort of physical presence. And the lascivious women of the Turk. That's right. The man is just a walking copy of Orientalism. He's basically like mirror universe Edward Said. But what I think is interesting is he is medieval and also in the sense

that he believes that like the collective prosperity is a function of the collective morality and the capacity to submit the collective before God, which he interprets as like the nation as filtered through the lens of capital. So the more you can learn to code, the more sort of the economy sort of smiles upon you, but he sees it in explicitly moral terms that why won't Jeff Bezos cure my scruff? Yeah, this reminds me of one of my other favorite Andrew Lillico

columns. We can all get rich by melting these heavy metals in a cauldron. So I'm going to do a few lines from this article. 2020 has been a grim year to be sure, but it has also been a year in which we have been drawn together. That may seem like an odd thing to say. For much of this year, we have literally been separated by restrictions. You might, Andrew.

Yeah, you might say that. He's so smart. Even when we can meet, we do serve through masks and at a distance. Yeah, hornily at a distance separated by this giant boner. Yeah, that's right. On the political front, there has been a wide gap between those that accuse the government of negligently allowing tens of thousands of people to die.

Right? Yeah. Some people have done that. Sure. You know, because that happened and those that condemn the government as stupefyingly authoritarian and wildly disproportionate in its restrictions. So these two groups are the same as each other.

There's no difference between these two groups. Those are just two different opinions which you can have and no one can say whether any of them is right or not. And also, the other thing, right, is just to sort of harken back to us talking earlier about Amazon's restrictions in those senses, like you can see how Amazon is going to use those restrictions to directly profit itself by monitoring people as time goes on. And you can also criticize fairly, I think, the government,

which has a history of being very, let's say, not civil liberties minded using quite a few of these laws as preconditions for cracking further down civil liberties. However, what Andrew Lillico means is, I don't want to wear a mask. Don't want to. Women do that to make me horny. I don't want to pick someone horny. What if I see myself in the mirror and I get horny?

That's the worst. You went very Joe Rogan there. That's like something he would ask. Having seen this entire country placed under house arrest for weeks at a time, the list of measures we... Oh, not house arrest. You know, when you have to work at home. That's the worst kind.

The list of measures we in future proclaim tyranny and all but name may grow shorter. Now, we have an opportunity to have a uniquely British common moment. I hate when we have those. I don't know what he means by... I don't know what he means by uniquely British. With vaccines approved and secured, we may start vaccinating a month or more ahead of other countries

with resolution, commitment and competent execution. We could have had... But we're not going to have that. We might manage to fuck it up a month ahead of other countries. Matt Hancock just gets all of the vaccines in his arm. That's right. Hancock becomes super immune. One of the vaccines just has 5G microchips like make you gay in them,

but it's only the British one. That one doesn't work. All of the others are fine. But they've got this. They've written like Matt Hancock. He's an absolute commons genius. He's completely worked up what he's going to do. All the vials of the vaccine are going to have the union jack on them.

Like Keith Scott and the union. Which is so genius because remember, every time you've ever had an injection, remember every injection you've had, you spend ages like staring at the vial. It gets handed to you, right? You want to check against the right one and not the make you gay one. Is this the right one?

Yeah, exactly. Oh no, this vaccine has the ISIS flag on it. Oh no, I've become a bimbo. You get injected with it and you just suddenly the ood starts playing. They say we could remove all these restrictions. This leaves us with a very common British experience. The smugness of exceptionalism going right into old shortages. How many deaths did Vietnam have this week?

Smugness of exceptionalism. That's a good thing apparently. That's a good thing. That's a good thing when we have it. I love this that like he correctly knows what the word smug means, but he doesn't understand that it exclusively has negative connotations. He has no ear for tone whatsoever. Is it finally I get to be smug?

He's the opposite of a dog in that he understands what things literally mean, but has cannot understand intonation. You know, I look at British history and I think so often to myself, you know what this needs is more smugness. Yeah, absolutely. As a nation, as a nation, we're so humble and perhaps to a fault. Out of the darkness and into a new dawn with Boris as the man to lead us. Oh, he's been going to the ominous camp again.

He's learned how to write ominous. What I said, he's a fundamentally medieval outlook. I'm not joking. He's in the land at one, right? Yeah, great. Which means the land is also like pretending it's not devastated by having had coronavirus. Which actually adds up, so that makes sense. With the smugness of like rushing a vaccine to production by doing fewer

precautionary checks on it after having had the highest per capita death count in the world. It's cool. Well, then this is one of those things where like it's kind of infuriating because like it's like stopped clocks, right? Like I think actually, and I may end up being proven wrong on this, but I think like rushing the vaccine through is probably the right thing to do because the risk versus the amount of people it will stop from dying is probably good.

Yeah, but when we find out that like 10 years after you get it, it makes your dick and balls fall off. Great. Finally, I'll be free. I'll be free. Aside from that. This is what the Turks were worried about. The whole country trances up.

Because finally when kids start shouting at me, you have a really small dick. I'll say you're technically wrong. Yeah. No. Okay. So you get the vaccine and 10 years later, everybody gets transed out by it in the opposite direction.

Yeah. And then we'll all have learned a valuable lesson, but like it was still probably worth it. I want to see Bimbified Matt Hancock. That would be sick. Matt Hancock was just giant just. Let me put Matt Hancock into a face app here and I'll post that. I really want Matt Hancock to get the ISIS vaccine there.

That would be cool. Like he's live on TV getting vaccinated and they inject it with him and just like suddenly without his control from the army's been vaccinated and just like one finger goes up into the air. Brothers, there will be five illers to this vaccination program. Injected by mischievous doctor H. So a little more of Lillico's words, though unemployment will rise and we might well face a second wave of economic crisis turning to financial

crisis again because of Lillico says he's the ethical champion of austerity because of what he says. We had to have no lockdown measures. The highest for tapping a death count in the world. So we could just prove some kind of chivalric point against the French. I just the idea and the whole thread running through this, of course, because it's being written for one man. I mean, it's not for us.

It's not for the readers of the telegraph. It's for Boris Johnson. Yeah. And this whole notion that he's still a leader, keep a bowl of kind of this heroic leadership. He almost died. Genuinely. I think much closer than anyone has known.

You know, at least in the United States, we had Ben Garrison, who was churning out, you know, the imagery to support this kind of image. There's no. This is the last. The telegraph is the last bastion of like meek, desperate, fiesta, laden text. No one's drawing Boris with a huge hog. And I think the way the poor are for it.

Ben Garrison. The other night on the news, Channel 4 News was interviewing people in some town in the north about what the political temperature of the country or whatever. And the temperature is high because of coronavirus. And there was one couple on the street. They were just like, they asked them what they thought of the government. And she went, Boris Johnson's the best Prime Minister we've ever had.

And my mum just went, what? I was like, yeah, man, are you having a stroke? Can you smell toast? Like what's going on? Like, have you just not watched the news at all? Yeah. Because he owns the Libs. Yeah.

Because what they really want is they want the Lib zone. They don't care if like everyone they know dies. They don't care about any of that. The Lib zone. Because they just, the only thing is, is they just, they want to have a big party that makes everyone else mad. Yeah. The conservative party.

Because the whole point, if politics is now just all these levers you can pull to try to infuriate people you hate. Because it's just resentful, online poisoned, like 70 year olds. And that's electoral politics. And so when you interview people on the street like that, don't be surprised that they give you answers that are basically just like, yeah, he satisfies my various resentments. And so when, when it's kind of, it's kind of a shame that having established

that politics now is just entirely spite, it's a spite based thing that we elected and ran Britain's nicest man. That's true. We tried to do it. Perhaps we, perhaps we should have got a gigantic piece of shit. We were on, on TF, you recall, we were promoting the socialism of spite, which is that all of the conservatives, they're going to get really well taken care of by the state and they're going to fucking hate it.

Yeah, they will hate it. And it wasn't enough because the overwhelming niceness of like, you know, rising like lions and stuff diluted that message of fuck you, get the fucking basic healthcare. Fuck you. Yeah. I mean, this is, this is why Bernie Sanders was better, right? Cause he just got people's asses more often.

No, but let's, but moving back to this article though, this is what I think is really funny, which is that Lillico says Jonathan Van Tam. So they, for American listeners out there are Dr. Anthony Fauci says we should not have a national party to celebrate the end of the crisis, but why not? Damned, damned, un-British of them. Maybe because that's like the worst thing you can do in an ongoing pandemic. Maybe that. Well, it's cause like the way to understand Lillico is like a death cultist,

right? Like, yeah, this is fully the death drive. Like if, if I can't celebrate the end of the pandemic by spitting in my friends' faces, what even is the point of calling myself? You know, the exact energy that Lillico reminds me of here is, I mean, Alice will know this. So basically on the latest Britonology that we recorded about the Falklands war, which will be coming out this month, there was a part where a bunch of

nutters on the Falkland islands were surprised by the Argentine invasion because they couldn't hear the helicopters because they were having a party celebrating the Queen's birthday that was too loud. That is Andrew Lillico all the time. This is just, this is fucked Anglo, he's the most fucked Anglo vibes person in the entire world. Is that a thing? Oh yeah, very much so.

Oh yeah. Yeah, this is a typology that I invented between fucked Anglo vibes and based Anglo vibes. Based Anglo vibes is like train set in a shed. Yeah. Fucked Anglo vibes is this shit right here. So yeah. And then we've, we've also got based Euro vibes and fucked Euro vibes.

I can see how this is. So yeah, he says, let us have a national holiday a day to celebrate and party preparing for it could give it could give us something to do over the last coronavirus. Coronavirus is in many ways the people's present. Preparing for it could give us something to do over the last few weeks of heavy restrictions. So yeah, just you know what to do at home on a rainy day is prepare to give

yourself cold. I mean, I changed my mind. Creed is 9000 hours long. I changed my mind. This article is written for two people. It's written for Boris and obviously the man himself. Yeah. He's just twiddling his thumbs at home.

Desperate for a party so we can give everybody COVID, I guess. Yeah. And ironically, the only person that has read this is us. Oh yeah. Neither of those two people have read it. Lillica hasn't read it. I've already edited it. So he says, so Boris schedule the vaccinations, announce the national

holiday date, do a big speech on the day and then lead us forward and out about tell us about the future coming. Tell us about the lab grown meat we will eat in the future. Tell us about the wonders of AI. Lillica, why are you excited about that? I don't even believe that this is real. Of driverless cars and robot butler. He says AI butlers, but I edited him on the fly because he says AI twice in

the same sentence. He said read it again. So he said AI cars and AI butlers. Yeah. He says tell us of the wonders of AI of the driverless cars and AI butlers. Oh my gosh. Come on. He's obsessed with treats.

I guess you guys are just obsessed with masochism here. I mean, reading this is truly, he just wants to say sorry. This is the, this is the bassist and this is the most debased form of He wants to put Asimo in a car and fuck him. And I think that's disgusting. Tell us about the bridge between Scotland and Northern Ireland. The one that's literally impossible to build. Yeah.

Tell us about that. Impossible to build but also shit and now useless because of Brexit. Basically. It's just extremely funny. This is why you have to understand Lillico as the ultimate example of the guy who's still holding on to the like morality of La Chanson du Jest. He still believes that like if you blow, if just blow the horn loud enough and if you believe then the sort of invading moors from Spain will just fall

It really is horny because of what they wear. The sexy women. Yeah. This idea that if we just have the right leader and we all have the right moral fiber, then it doesn't matter that a bridge between Scotland and Northern Ireland is an expensive impossible boondoggle. It will be made to happen. We're trying to build it over a trench filled with our own bomb.

It will be made. It will work because we simply because a wizard will do it. Yeah. Because the because capitalism is basically a wizard. It's not Chanson du Jest. It's it's more dark to draw the Jeff Bezos. You're talking about. We already have the guy.

He believes that could actually use up a lot of his money like more than he's expecting like a bridge that keeps blowing up. Yeah. Build a bridge on top of bombs on some really deep and stormy sea. You guys don't think that there are build it. Lillico's inside Amazon HQ pitching things like Amazon Explorer where you get a fucking Lillico is too dangerous of an idea. He says like the prestige, but it's just multiple.

It's a basement full of Lillico clones. Give us a plan for tomorrow. A common mission for our society and culture. We may not agree with it all. We choose to build the bridge to Northern Ireland, not because it is easy, but because it is hard with your vision as our melody. We will have much more of a chance to act in harmony. So please Boris Johnson being John Malkovich into my head and work me like a puppet.

That's right. This is just bizarre. This is like this man has a brain parasite. Like even like even Boris doesn't think this. Of course he doesn't. Boris doesn't think about this at all. It's just a guy who sort of stumbled dick first in the Prime Minister ship. And it's kind of having some fun with it first into having some fun with it.

And then again, like it's it's worse than like that. All that Trump God Emperor stuff because all that stuff you can see that's like half joking. This is so sincere. At least Trump has an ego that size, whereas Boris Johnson kind of does, but not in this way. And so it's just faintly pathetic. It's just simping for Boris Johnson. And so when he's like, tell us about the glorious future that's going to come after this ends. Like they've already told us what they're going to do after this ends, which is mega austerity.

Like they've literally said that. So it's going to suck. Which is just a way for everyone. Yeah, because you believe believes in the ethical foundations of austerity. Yeah. But what's really sad about it is that it's not even really good in the end for people like Andrew Lillico. Right. Because it just destroys the entire foundation of our economy.

People don't realize that actually like those poor people at the bottom of the economy are actually fundamental to the way in which it functions. And when you pull out too many of the little kaplunk sticks, actually the whole thing just fucking explodes. Yeah. Because it's built on bombs at the bottom of the sea. There is one thing that I'm genuinely optimistic about in the future. And that is pretending to be Irish American Joe Biden getting to dictate the terms of the Brexit deal. That's going to fucking rock. So I'm going to I'm going to bring us to a close here because we've been going for a little while.

One last line of Lillico and then we're going to say goodbye to everyone. The last line of Lillico and I'm going to read this in the voice that I think it was intended. Okay. A great moment of opportunity is coming. A fiesta, a surge, a recovery, a society of tomorrow in which we are bonded by suffering. If you join me, if you lead us Boris, we will follow Harold the dawn and make the next bright day yours forever. Wow, Andrew Gorkico there. I don't know.

Harold the dawn, Boris. That's right. Harold the fuck out of that door. Has he ever been to a fiesta before? Join me with my AI butler room at the fiesta. Harold the dawn from TF podcast. And make the next bright day yours forever. God, that feels that that really feels pretty.

That feels pretty sort of mid century far right wing doesn't it that kind of rhetoric. I think we get Jeff Bezos could use a bit more of that. Yeah. Yeah. Why don't we have Andrew Lillico writing Jeff Bezos his speeches at least the money would sound cooler. I mean at least his tweets so he's not getting DNA tests to see how much for Lizzo family is anyway. James and David from Progressive International. I want to thank you both for talking to us today.

It's been a real pleasure. Pleasure to be here. Thanks so much for having me. Thanks you so much for having me. Where can people find you? Generally sitting at home behind my computer on the end of zoom calls with David. Yeah. Look up look him up on monitor on.

They have all my information. Oh yeah. If you're if you're listening to this which you which you are I have a show on Tuesday the 15th at the set for branding a preview of my new show while it's still technically legal. You will have to eat a meal but the food there's pretty good. That's pretty good. Yeah. There'll be a link to that in the description.

I also might be doing a show on Thursday on the Thursday of that week which will be the 17th if my math serves me correctly and if I am doing that show which I may or may not be the link will be in the description. So that's a surprise for both of us. Fantastic. Yeah. Find out a theme song by Jin sang find it on Spotify listen early listen often. Don't forget five bucks a month. Patreon second episode a week.

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