TRASHFUTURE - Juice Wayne feat. Gareth Reynolds

Episode Date: July 25, 2018

On this special 1-year anniversary of the Trashfuture podcast, Riley (@raaleh), Olga (@rocknrolga ), Milo (@Milo_Edwards), and comedian Gareth Reynolds (@reynoldsgareth) -- host of the podcast ‘the Dollop’ -- about the infamous Juicero, and what its high-tech concept (and spectacularly low-tech demise) says about the capital class of Silicon Valley. The terrible Juicero advertisement that appears in the cold open is available here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1oHp-VvhDE You can commodify your dissent with a t-shirt from http://www.lilcomrade.com/. You can also purchase useful kitchen implements from our socialist cookware sponsor, Vremi (https://vremi.com/). Nate (@inthesedeserts) trimmed this from nearly 90 minutes down to a far more decent 65 minutes because no one deserves to hear this show uncut.

Uh, Juicero, the best juice ever. What comes out of the Juicero is so fresh that it shouldn't even be called juice. It should just be called, I don't know, squashed produce? Because that's what it is. Our founder Doug is straight up made of juice. Literally, there's juice in my veins. There's juice in my veins. There's juice in my veins.

There's juice in my veins. Hello and welcome again back to trash future, the podcast where I don't say the name of it. I say the name. I don't say the intro of it anymore. You fuck this up even worse than the old intro. Like you're like irony attempt to not say the intro. You just bungle it even. No, I'm not saying the intro.

The intro is too long. I'm tired of the intro. It's done. Okay. I believe in the intro. I believe in the spirit of it. But it's too long. You're like a jaded former communist.

I still believe in it, but I've downgraded my expectations. No more intro, but hey, it's happy birthday approximately to us. We're a year old and we are the exact same premise and crew. Yeah, we fuck way more than the average one year old. That's for sure. We should the same amount. We're like an Austrian basement one year old. Oh boy.

He's taking out all the classic references. And we have basically actually done some prep work today to a very. I forgot to introduce myself. That's great. I'm Riley. You may remember me from every other episode of this podcast. Oh yeah. And we've done some prep work today to bring you the story of the thing

that inspired this podcast from the very beginning that we've alluded to quite a bit. Yeah. And we are finally Roman Republican Senator juicero. We're talking about the juicero. We're going through it. Who do I got with me in the room? It's your dad's best friend Olga and it's Milo Edwards. You can follow me on Twitter at Milo Edwards.

You may remember me from almost every other episode of this podcast. And a very special guest in a very special bowl. He's actually a phone in a bowl again this time. Ladies and gentlemen. Sorry. That's you, Gareth. Oh, hi. It's me, Gareth.

Gareth is one of the hosts of the dollop podcast, which is you can find on iTunes and any other place that you have podcasts that you want to download. It's extremely funny and I strongly recommend it. Am I really in a fishbowl? You're in some Tupperware. Tupperware. I promise it's clean. Well, I mean, okay, as long as it's clean.

You're in the cleanest receptacle we could find in this apartment. Okay. That's all I wanted to make sure. About coming second to Milo's anus. Well, hang on. I'll take the Tupperware. Cleanest receptacle in this apartment. The trouble is if you're in my anus, everyone else could hear you, but I would struggle.

Yeah. That is bad. Probably bad for sound. Yeah. Not good for sound. You'd have a great time. Great sound proofing. But terrible.

In fact, really the opposite of what we want to be doing here. Are we pitching a black mirror? That's that's it's no. It's it's what if what if your ass was a phone? What if what if your ass was a phone and everyone else could hear it? Speaking of small holes, the squeeze out product. Nice. Oh my goodness.

So we are. Yeah, we are going to be here. We're going to be talking in depth about what and I'm sure everyone who listens to this show knows what the Juicero was. And we're going to work again. Yeah. We're pouring pouring a glass of cold press out for my boy. The river Doug Evans.

This is a name we're going to hear a lot over the next hour. Doug Evans, born and raised in New York City, wrote, I was bored with drawing on paper and pencils for fun. I wanted to be famous by painting graffiti on subway trains and hanging out with guys like Warhol, Basquiat and Herring. But I dropped out of high school because I couldn't fathom any more school. So I decided to join the U.S. Army instead, which I guess is what you do. If you're an answer, you said we have a husband.

I went. I went all in and chose the 82nd Airborne. I went in wanting to be a general so I could push my limits to the max after the military, the closest legitimate vocation to graffiti was graphic design. So he just doesn't tell us why he left the military. He leaves that amiss. Love juice too much. Having seen this guy, I cannot imagine him being in the military.

He's like the 82nd Wavy Gravy Division. Whole press gravy. He does not have what you call a military bearing. But this is what I find very interesting. He says his closest vocation to graffiti was graphic design, which is the most legal version after the. But I didn't just sign up for classes online. I tracked down legendary designer Paul ran showed up on his doorstep and worked

closely for him for seven years without pay. What he was a volunteer graphic designer for seven years and stalker was only given free. Seven years. He treats it like meatloaf meatloaf and fight club. I wanted to just I wanted to destroy something beautiful. The first rule of graphic design club is you will not be paid. So I love the idea of the guy actually offering him to get paid.

And he's like, no, don't pay me. This must be pure. This is pro bono. I need this for my Wikipedia page. Yeah. So what I find interesting is Paul Rand. This guy he works who decides to work for for seven years without pay, which I'm Rand's son.

Almost. First, how did he live? How did he eat? Is that just Rand Paul's like Mr. Shrub suit in him? I like the sound of this Paul Rand guy. How the fuck did he live for seven years without without ever getting paid? Did he?

I don't know this because I couldn't find out. I don't know if he had rich parents. He was giving jobs to money surely. Juice. He was fed juice. This is where it starts. This is the inception of a human centipede. Oh, yeah.

So the what I did actually a little research on Paul Rand, by which I mean I did it, gave him a cursory Google and and this actually is is sort of not premonitious isn't a word. It's what I'm going to use. Paul Rand was the chief architect behind Apple's think different campaign, which said here's to the crazy ones, the misfits, the rebels, the troublemakers, the ones who see things differently. They're not fond of rules and have no respect for the status quo.

And you you can quote them, disagree with them, glorify them or vilify them about the only thing you can't do is ignore them because they change things. They push the human race forward. And while some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius because the people who are crazy enough to think they change can change the world are the ones who do because Rodney, please don't read it for my tinder by this and that there's the thing is this this attitude in Paul Rand was the thing was all kind of the thing that would bring Doug Evans to a sort of psychotic desire for fame

and to transcend mortality again through graphic design through graphic design only crazy dreamers like that could think juice but eight hundred dollars or indeed join the 82nd Erbil. I don't play by the rules except the incredibly regimented daily life of being in the military. I really want to meet Basquiat. I better join the army. So he goes on.

So this is this is a situation right. He is a guy who wants to be famous through graffiti and decides to become a volunteer graphic designer for seven years in the in seven years. Go fucking paint a wall right. Yes, just go tag some shit man. Yeah, Banksy. That's what Banksy did. Just seven years isn't it?

Seven years. Oh, Doug Evans is Doug Evans Banksy. That would explain quite a bit and open some new questions. For example, why did why is late period Banksy so interested in cold press juice? So he he says based on this is in the 90s, but then he has a crazy revelation where he says and this is this is I'm quoting from him in 1994. My mother died of cancer and then my father died of heart disease. Then my brother developed type two diabetes are atrial fibrillation

hypertension and had the first of two strokes. Oh, so things are great. Then you have three more and they formed a band. It still doesn't necessarily make you think juices in this man's future. You think maybe something like medicine, right? You know, it was pretty obvious that I needed to make juice. All this overwhelming sadness will cheer me up. Two strokes later, I was like, it's juice.

Juicentime. And that's when I watched the OJ Simpson trial. And I thought I need to murder my wife. And I was like, if he gets away with this shit, I'm going to invent something. And I was like, yeah, he did. Well, he says I was terrified and depressed. I suddenly was confronted with the idea that I was genetically predisposed to early mortality. Something seems off.

Both my parents died in the same hospital and we all ate the same American diet. The same area and you eat the same dinner table. Yeah, the idea is that if they die in the same hospital, it's like, how is this possible? It's like, well, they lived at the same home, right? That's what they take from there. That's how the ambulance is doing. Is that the episode? We can't take her there.

That's where her husband died. You're right. Oh, no. Yeah, we're going to, what are we feeding her today? Oatmeal. Oatmeal. He used to eat oatmeal. My mom and my aunt's sister have the same name.

Oh my God. It's not that episode of the Simpsons where they try and solve the JFK assassination. He's like Marge. They were trying to steal the Jack Ruby. So he has this realization that both his parents died in the same hospital for some reason, and they were all eating the same diet. And he says, and so I went cold cucumber and stopped eating processed food, refined meat, dairy and animal products.

And I started eating plants. At the same time, he also met a vegan at a nightclub called Denise Mari, who he then started a relationship with. What are vegans that go to nightclubs? Yeah. That's a great place to meet a vegan as a nightclub. Which nightclub? He doesn't say.

Although, you know, knowing the turnover rates of nightclubs in Lower Manhattan, I'm sure it's still open. The question no one's asking though is how did he know she was a vegan? Because we all know how he knew that. What you mean that he right away was just like, I'm a vegan. And he was like, that's so funny. Both my parents are dead. They died at the same hospital.

I read about you. It's a real coincidence. Have we ever looked into if two people who've ever gone to this nightclub have died? There's something about this nightclub that's killing people. So he becomes of no all the people who died on 9 11 worked in the same building. Shut the fuck up. What? This was a targeted attack.

I'm sure there were lots of people who do 9 11 who were just tourists in that building. Wait a minute. In the scenic offices. So after this, he was obsessed with this idea that what can I do to have the greatest impact on humanity and human health. And then he had this realization. Nobody eats enough vegetables. And again, I'm quoting from him right now.

Vegetables are hard to eat and juicing is an easy way to get someone to eat a serving of fruits and vegetables. Vegetables are hard to eat. They are. Who gave this man a pen? Who trusted him? They're hard. Every time I see a cucumber, I'm like, where do I even begin? With the middle.

I've tried to eat him with all that chewing. I'm like, no. What's the time? I've got places to be. In this rough, rough 90s world? There's just no time to chew. I got a vegan nightclub to get to. His legacy was going to be bringing juice to the people.

Oh my Jesus. And so Evans and Mari. No, I'm sorry. That's Moses. What? What? I was I was really hoping we'd go. I didn't know how much long we'd go without that.

I'm so sorry. I don't have that homophone. Okay. So that's his legacy is juicing. So Evans and Mari decide they would go on to create a business called Organic Avenue where you could go in and everything will be made of fresh, ripe or raw organic fruits and vegetables. Quote, it was a vision of a restaurant someone could go to where no animals

were harmed and no humans were harmed. There's two harm humans. Apart from the cock fighting. That was an integral part. Is he imagining what a restaurant where you just you go and you can just kick your waiter in the nuts? I don't understand this. No humans are harmed.

No humans were harmed in the making of this juice. Apart from all the staff who are being paid less than the minimum wage. It was so magical, he says, to be able to have that. I was drinking several glasses of juice a day as my primary form of hydration, which is bad. Can you imagine the lack of shutting the fuck up going on with this guy? He also talks about how much juice he was drinking in the way that like heroin addicts talk about how much heroin they were doing,

but with none of the regret. The amount of shits that that man had. I mean, there's some days where I was just drinking juice all day. I couldn't even think about anything else. I wouldn't even take calls from my mother. I walk up. He was dead. I fell into it.

Apparently something to do with the location she was in. Yeah, I woke up. I woke up face down in the ditch, my face in a pile of kale covers covered. It was right. I was eating broccoli. Hi. My name is Riley and I've had nothing but juice for 21 days

and I'm Jack. Okay. And the first store opened in 2006. The business grew quickly, but margins were persistently thin because New York real estate is expensive and the inventory was perishable and always going off because people were put off by the lack of cock fighting. No, everyone was like, I want a restaurant where people are harmed. This is unrelatable.

It's unrelatable. At least waterboard the sommelier. And he's trying to tell you what kind of water it is the whole time. Shut up. I'm ordering this water to be poured in your head under over a cloth. 2009. No, I can only imagine Doug Evans coming into like that, you know, American military industrial complex being like, guys, guys, guys,

you're spending all of this time and money waterboarding people you think are terrorists. When you could be using cold press juice, think of the nutrients they'd be taking in forcefully while trying to give you objectives. These guys, they could, they could instead of, you're trying to, what if, what if they became so, so just nutriented up? What if they got so fucked up on nutrients that they just told you everything? The Taliban give up because they're like, those guys have juice vitamin C.

Oh, you mean like from a bottle? No, no, no cold press. The mother of all presses. So they were on the brink of insolvency and in 2012, Mr. Evans and Mrs. Mari, who are now or Ms. Mari, who are now separated, sold them and yes, pour one out from a boy family court, separated curiously, both from the same relationship. Yeah,

sold a majority interest in Organic Avenue to a private equity firm and then they were both ousted from the company. The company was eventually sold to another private equity firm which entered all the stores, but upon being fired, Mr. Evans said that the following was his biggest problem and I'm just going to take a pause because I need to inhale before this is so good because who boy is this not the problem you'd usually have after you've been fired from a job. Actually, you know what to do?

Does anyone have any guesses as to what the biggest problem was? I know what it was. So don't fucking say it. Gareth Olga, any guesses as to what the big problem was? I'm not sure. I mean, it seems like there's a lot of problems. Nothing can bring his parents back to life. Yeah.

Not enough juice pumping will do that. I don't know. I'm curious. Proving that the doctors were part of an international Jewish conspiracy. You're not going to get it. You're not going to be able to pet cemetery your parents. Oh, no. Oh, damn it.

Oh, there goes my whole afternoon. Quote, suddenly I no longer had access to cold press juice on demand. Oh, God. It implies you still had access to it, but just at random intervals, which you had no control over. Yeah. I tried making juice at home, but couldn't find an easy solution. I know.

If only there was a shop. If only people could reconcile the fundamental difference between solid and liquid. If only there was some kind of machine. No, there's nothing like a Macintosh. I mean, but this does sound like addiction. Like he lost his job and his only thing is like, where do I get the next high? I got to get a juice fix. It's like, it's like, remember like what this guy's like core psychosis is.

It's like he lost a lot of family members and then got like a twin mess Messiah and immortality obsession. Right. Like he was like, I don't want to die, but I want to save the world from also dying, but mostly I don't want to die ever and solve my parents murder at the same hospital. It has been upgraded to a murder. Thank you, Gary. There's no doubt in my mind.

It's a murder. They were at the same hospital. This winter on Showtime Diagnosis Blender. Two deaths, two people, one hospital. Doesn't add up. He's just so driven by this need to be as Messiah and you could eat. I want. He's like, I want to be famous.

I want to be a general. I want to work for free for seven years for the guy who did a marketing campaign about how cool it is to be a genius. He is certainly a very interesting person. So he no longer has access to cold press juice on demand because he's gotten fired from his job and that's what you get in benefits now. Fortunately, he was offered a job at the tiny violin factory. I knew I knew about the power of commercial cold press juicers and I wanted that power

and the juice that was come out of it. Was it possible to create such a thing that would fit in my kitchen countertop? Yeah, problem with conventional juices. They just won't fit on your kitchen countertop. There's juicers. It's just a juicer. So that's that's that's his that's that's sort of him. I've got another couple of insights into his personality from when he was actually

working at the company. A former employee was interviewed says he either bullies you until you submit to what he wants to do or he finds someone else who will go along with what it is that he wants. He had his hands in almost every part of the business, which is just impossible for anybody to do. He tried to control literally everything, but still it wouldn't bring his parents back. I mean, I'm with the emotional angle and I think it's really working like this is the movie of his life.

Yeah, he's like a terrible juice Batman. So he's he's impossible to work for. And also he went on vegan ultra endurance athlete Rich Rolls podcast. Rich Rolls. That's got to be a fake person that is invented by 4 Chan, surely and says he treats every Juicero team member as a venture capitalist who can make one bet. And that's how they're going to allocate their 40 50 60 or 80 work hours per week. Oh, what a dick.

There's no difference between labor and capital. I don't know if you guys knew that. You just spent 80 hours a week trying to find out what the hell was going on in that hospital. So that's also it's like that's that's that is such a sort of bizarre and weirdly atomizing Silicon Valley way to think about this is that everyone's a venture capitalist, but only I get to get rich. Yeah, because I system that'll work for a while for sure. Oh, yeah, totally. It's good.

Yeah. I mean, he he was a Coachella this year. He still has plenty of money. He's doing fine. Oh, yeah. Well, meritocracy is alive and well. He also absolutely has zero spent like he's zero spending on food. Can we just talk about that? Someone said to him, do you want to come to Coachella? We're all going to get juiced up and he was disappointed. So I have I have two more things about about Doug Evans and then we can move on.

That finally reveal who killed his parents. What it was the American diet. It was big oatmeal. What Evans wants allegedly allegedly can range from impractical to humiliating. Several employees laid in an anecdote in which flies had been cropping up in the company's San Francisco office. Evans, a vegan who would own who only allowed his employees to expense vegan meals on business trips refused to implement a solution that would kill the flies. We just we basically just had you on to disgust you.

Well, I mean, that is just such I'm like I am a vegetarian who, you know, enjoys the life of animals and wants them to have great lives. But if fly like flies that level of like no, no, let them be is like you will live with a lot of flies if this is your policy. This will get to the point where you despise flies, especially in a hospital. Hey, the vegan thing is like imagine him just at night calling coffee shop after coffee shop asking whether it was a soy latte. Oh, yeah. The person bought bought.

You don't print this on your receipts. We're expensing like if you're expensing dinners and you just decide to get a cappuccino after dinner, he's like, what kind of mail? Exactly. I need to talk to the waiter, obviously. So I hear there was a fly in your suit. What'd you do with it? It was dead when it was in my suit.

So it was dead. That's weird. So you're saying that the soup murdered the fly. So the soup was not vegan. You know, I've been a bit of a conspiracy theorist ever since my parents died at the same hospital. Wait, did you harm the waiter? Wait, so you and the fly were in the same restaurant. It's weird that I've never seen you and this fly in the same room at the same time, isn't it?

Maybe that's why you say I didn't do it. You only employed flies. So the employee said he had to interview companies and ask if they had a catch and release program for flies. What? What? Isn't that what the U.S. Army called their like Taliban program in Afghanistan? That's what happens when you meet a vegan in a nightclub. It happens when veganism meets the 82nd Airborne.

We've got these high value target flies. Catch and release. This employee actually had to go and teach Doug Evans that catch and release for pests is not humane because it's more stressful on them. If you catch them and relocate them and then they just die anyway. Who analyzed how stressful different stuff is for flies? There's some fly summer who was like, do not even talk to me about this shit today. I have already been on 15 different rice cakes, none of which I enjoyed. And I was swatted at by a very sweaty lady in a Boulangerie.

Oh, Boulangerie, very fancy fly. So this is the kind of guy he is to work for when I have one more thing about him. Which is in an interview with recode that Evans did. Sam Biddle, who is a reporter for the Intercept, asked him a very point blank question. Not all juice is equal. So how do you measure life force? How do you measure chi? No, Sam Biddle is pretty fucking cool.

So I can only assume this was a troll. No, wait, no, isn't that what he replied to the question I thought? No, this is his question. And then another Twitter user followed up saying, yes, how much chi does it contain per serving? So here is his answer. He has an answer. He has an answer to this question. Everyone needs to get hurt in this discussion.

How much chi is there? I don't know, not enough to hurt a fly. The important thing is you can actually only have one or less chi, because if you have multiple cheese, then that's cheese, which is not vegan. Sorry, is that copyright? Yeah, but Dabba don't. I will need to claim. I'm willing to claim that refugee status or their podcast very quickly.

So here is his answer. So chi to me, and it's kind of funny in that people will tend to make jokes about these things. But for me, I'm serious as a heart attack. So when I describe chi and life force, my parents died from. And let me go in a tangent here. So he says, so when I describe chi and life force and in preparation, I want to be really clear. If you were to take a steamed almond and a raw almond, they look the same. But if you plant them, what's going to happen to the steamed almond?

You call this a steamed almond, even though it's obviously grilled. The steamed almond is going to decay and rot, but the raw almond, you can't remove the life force. The steamed almond is dead, so it just decays, but the raw almond will still have chi in it. And that chi will allow it to sprout into a seedling and grow into an almond tree and replicate itself a million times over. Wait, he actually believes in that thing where if you swallow a seed, a tree grows in your stomach. He's like, this is going to be a sick ass tree growing out of my head. I'm going to become a tree. I'm going to become like one of those things from Lord of the Rings.

I'm just trying to figure out whether it is or isn't okay when a guy comes inside of me. This is a guy who has to steam his cum first. Steamed cum. Stop steaming my balls. You call this steamed cum, even though it is obviously grilled. Yeah, so he believes in magic. Oh, wow. But even that, we're going to bring his parents back.

I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. He just steamed his parents. Exactly the time when my parents died, David Blaine was suspended in a perspex box over London. How was he involved? What did this mean? This is just the mindset of these people. They basically will take any explanation for anything that they want. They'll sort of apply it to some weird messiah complex that they have.

And then they will basically just start believing in the magic, whether it's chi or whether it's an algorithm or whatever. To say that I now deserve the vast amount, a vast proportion of our society's resources to be allocated to me. Oh, Juicero is Brexit. Okay, so obviously we know that Doug is very passionate about fruit and vegetable diets. So he decides that he's going to go with the name Juicero Press to maximize the amount of doucheiness that comes from this. He wants it to be a Wi-Fi connected juicer. Why does it need Wi-Fi? It needs, well, we'll get to that in a sec.

Essentially because this will, the Juicero will tell you. I mean, it is for a very, it seems like for a reason that does not matter because basically if you hold up your bag of juice to this barcode scanner, this QR scanner, which stands for something. Quick response code. It will tell you if the juice is good or bad and then it won't juice a bad juice. But that also just seems like if you get the packs that you would automatically just be like, oh, it's good because it has like a sell-by date or whatever. But instead he wanted it to have Wi-Fi, again, just probably so that you're like, yeah, my juicer is connected to my Wi-Fi. You know, and you could just be the worst person to talk to at a party. It checks that your juice hasn't said anything controversial online since you purchased it.

It goes back through your juices' tweets and sees if your juice is on the up and up, all that stuff. I'm sorry, your juice is Lana Del Raythe on this. You don't want Mike Cernovich outing your juice for its old tweets. No, God forbid. Then it gets fired as your juice. Your juice is actually a duck-flavored milkshake, which is not going to get old. People are going to be turned off by that. I was actually thinking like, what if I hack into my husband's juicero, see that he's been drinking beet juice and he's allergic to beets.

He's clearly cheating on me. If this was still a thing, 100% a story. That's not a bug. It's a feature. Never mind. Doug Evans is a genius. Why would he be drinking pineapple juice in the same house as his mistress? Gareth, please continue serenading us. They wanted the juicer to be cheap, so they started deciding they'd sell it at about $700, which makes it one of the most expensive juicers of all time, which I didn't get into what other ones there are, but that is exorbitant. Sorry to stop you, but that one was the most expensive juice of all time.

What? $1,000? Some would retail for $300 more, so I don't know what that means, but that's something that is out there. Oh, that's sucker pricing. Yeah, I think that's what it is. My guess is that it's at like fancy, you know, like a juice bar and they're like, oh, you have to have this. And then they just make it, you know, more expensive as a boutique item. Yeah. It's the juicero boutique addition. The juicero exlude is on Ex Supreme. Yeah, of course.

Got a little thing on it. So he wants, so he, like we've established, he wants to make the freshest, best tasting juice imaginable. And, you know, in traditional Silicon Valley, Hollywood style, people like Justin Timberlake and Gwyneth Paltrow had tried the juice from the juicero, enjoyed it. And this got him to get a hundred million dollars basically to make his juice dreams come true by starting like, you know, one of those on one of those donations sites sites. And so he's working on it for years in stealth mode. He like, in order to like, before the release in March, 2016, he like would have reporters come in and he would let them try the juice, but he was basically like, I don't take any pictures of it yet. And so they were like, okay, so all these people are coming over and they're just trying the juice. And, you know, like reporters are, they're all like, this is expensive. Is it worth it?

I'll be honest. Absolutely. It's worth it. It is absolutely worth it. He made 12 different prototypes. Yeah, sir. Yeah. He made 12 different prototypes and he insisted people would not take pictures. Gwyneth Paltrow says it's good and she's made a fortune selling crack pipes on the internet. Well, to be fair, though, she, yeah, she also has a daughter named Apple. So there could be some sort of weird tie in here where, I mean, I don't know. Stop squeezing me, mommy. She was too hard. Get in the machine. Juice in her daughter.

I've not seen Apple and this glass of Apple juice in the same room at the same time. Conveniently, the juicer was 16 inches tall, making it somewhat bulky, which again was part of the point of why he wanted to do this so he could fit on your countertop, which is where established juicers can. So it takes up a good amount of space and people thought it to be very expensive. So they were trying to bring down the price and they kept comparing themselves to Tesla, you know, saying that they sort of had, you know, they'd come up with something pricey, but they planned on sort of scaling it down, making it more affordable. And it's pretty straightforward. It comes with the instructions that you place it on your countertop, you plug it in, you put it in your juice pack. What's that? It's got to be countertop.

It's countertop. Did I mention that? This will fit on your countertop. It's got to be countertop. But as you really want to be like Tesla, you've got to have your employees dying in silent movie style accidents. Yeah, for sure. Sarah falls on you from a winch. Yeah.

So and then Jews bags to the Thai boys. We've mentioned that we've mentioned the bags, but we haven't. Have we mentioned the mechanism of the juice extraction from the bags or are we getting there? Well, basically what it is, is there are one serving size pouches and they look like an IV bag. They range from price between $5 to $7. They came in flavors among them green, spicy greens, sweet greens, green zing. And then there's beet ones for Olga's husband and then there's carrot ones too. And essentially inside the pouch, like what happened was, you know, Doug was way up his own ass about the produce.

So he would be, you know, they would be bringing in the, you know, non GMO, the straight from farm to table vegetables and fruits and they would and they had like no flies were harmed. No, no, there's a fly flavor. I didn't get there. There's a fly one. Yeah. And yeah, and so they would like cut these vegetables up and then they would put them in this dumb little IV pouch. And then the countertop model, as we alluded to, he had this kind of erection for Mac stuff. So it is this smooth looking machine.

You open the machine, you pop in the IV bag, you close the machine, you press a button and then with a crazy mechanism, slowly the juice is pushed out of these IV bags through a little hole at the bottom. But it's like the amount of work that went into getting this right. Like they talk about, like, so basically the thing had a large aluminum frame that had a core structure. There were 10 custom injection molded parts. There was one solenoid to keep the door latched, but not structurally closed. There was a motor. There was a control board. There were two stamped steel parts.

There was one coil. There were two custom dowel pins. There were four bushings, which I just assume is. Hey, there was one gear. There were various screws and table, various screws, connectors and glues, and all that is just to keep the door shut. So people who worked with him said that he, quote, went wild. And I mean, so the machine was super high tech. Yes.

Can I ask a quick question about the bag? Yes, please. So you mentioned that it was a bag full of chopped fruit and veg, or was it already a juice in there? It was essentially like juicy or full of juice, fruits and vegetables. So you could potentially open the bag and you would see kale pieces, you would see pieces of carrot or, you know, whatever. But what the Juicero would do is when you, when you were done with the juice, you would take, if you were to look at the bag after, it would just look like a bunch of dried fruit and vegetables. So it's kind of, they're just like juicy when they go in the bag.

They're juicy when you juice it. And then by the end, through this, you know, state of the art mechanism are able to somehow milk the juice out of these bags with a small hole. Yeah, of course. Yeah. Again, not easy to do. My favorite, my favorite part actually is how they figured out how to keep a door closed because I mean, I'll be perfectly honest. I've never seen a door do that before. The thing is that most juices were so far behind on that problem, they didn't even have a door.

Yeah, that's true too. I mean, yeah. And, you know, and while they fit it on countertops, you still want ones that fit on a countertop. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, most juicers that I've been, or at least I've been familiar with is a very large, very metal. They're so big, you have to put them outside. They have upwards of four doors.

You need a separate house for them. You need a separate house for them. They get delivered. They've been a big IBM truck by eight white-coated men. Yeah, I have a separate house for my juicer, and that's how my husband started cheating on me. When did the juice house? I just love the way eight thousand pounds of pressure fills in my bowls, Olga. Me and Juicera love each other.

Perhaps one of the single most advanced pieces of engineering that is designed to close a door and squeeze a bag. Yes, and yes, I mean, and it would use, like, in order for it to press the bag at the same place at the same time with, again, yeah, like you said, thousands of pounds of pressure on it, it took a long time to get this right. You know, years and years for them to be able to do this properly. It was clearly not your average consumer product. The people could tell right away that the product had been assembled with great complexity, great attention to detail. The two primary exterior plastic parts are enormous. There was detailed injection molded with the multiple slides and the action. There were changes in the walls thickness, which made it really hard to mold it without imperfections.

And it was, you know, textured like the Apple computer with a nice glossy finish. The images show that the polymer used for the white parts went through eight different revisions. You can tell that because... You never get a polymer right after the first seven. That's what they say, yeah. So that's why it was considered polymer age. Yeah, no, it's not easy. Good Lord. Before this, if you wanted to squeeze juice out of a bag with that level of design, you had to just shut a bag of juice in your MacBook.

Which admittedly juiced it just as well. But what if you were trying to use your MacBook and drink juice? You'd have to buy a second MacBook. And that costs a little bit more than $800. It's only just as Wi-Fi connectable. Really, there's not a lot of difference between this and a MacBook. The fact that it's Wi-Fi is involved just makes you so angry. Because otherwise you might drink a bag of bad juice and there's no other way to get you that information.

No, without question. There's no other way. I mean, you'd have to look at a label. That's not easy. I heard that they made it Wi-Fi connectable basically so that you couldn't use off-brand bags of juice with it. This will squeeze nothing but an authentic juicero bag. One of the things they talked about was curing. They talked about curing a lot.

They, you know, curing made a mistake by making it so that anybody could take a curing-shaped coffee and use it in a curing machine. So they were very serious about the idea that they would never be able to be ripped off for their juice packets. When people buy a $700 machine, they want to know that they're going to be entirely only able to buy consumables from that one company, even if it goes bust. Here's the thing, right? Like, what if, let's say you're Doug Evans, like, hey, not only that, it'll be modular so people can buy whatever juice packets and you're like, what if they make a juice packet out of flies? Oh my God. A non-vegan juice packet.

What if they make a juice packet? It's just a gravy bag. What if they chop a cow up real small? Oh my God, no. What are you doing? Oh, Doug. Oh my God, I love drinking this cow's blood. What?

Peter Teal just slowly closing a young boy into the juicero and drinking a juice. Man, I can't wait to drink some rhino. Oh my God. No, Apple, don't, it's fine. Get in. No, it's vegetarian. She's called Apple. He's got the QR code and everything.

Amazingly. I'm just going to read some quotes from there from our favorite thing, the New York Goddamn Times. Then there is Doug Evans brainchild. I mean, the fact that a brain as weak as his is having children is worrying in and of itself. With no experience running tech companies and a bungled juice bar chain under his belt, he has extracted a remarkable $120 million in investments from Silicon Valley Titans, including Google Ventures and Kleiner Perkins, Caulfield and Buyers, and big companies like Campbell's Soup.

Campbell's Soup were like, how do you make solids into a liquid? We've not been able to master it, but this guy is kind of what it, you know, Campbell's Soup that we're like, well, we all know that you get bags of liquid out of the ground. That we've all established. We have the soup miners for that. But how do you get it out of the bag, right? And then like, I can only assume that they were just like impressed by like the level of hype he put into it. So like this guy, we're just saying shit like, this is great.

So they didn't have any data to reassure them. Instead, they had little more than Mr. Evans is enthusiasm for juice. He drinks it for breakfast, lunch and dinner. He is so committed to a largely liquid diet that he rarely consumes water. Okay, water is also a liquid. Can we just stress that for a moment? When vegetables come out of the. I'm actually really worried about the salty about future sources of fresh water,

like for example, the great bags of North America, like Michigan bag Ontario. Both my parents and my brother drank water and they're all dead coincidence. Whoa. Yeah. And then he says, organic cold pressed juice is rainwater filtered through the soil and the roots and the stems and the plants. He said, you extract the water molecules, the chlorophyll, the anthocyanin, which sounds like a poison, and the flavonoids who sound like a band from the 80s and the micronutrients. You're getting this living nutrition.

It's like drinking the nectar of the earth. It's just like that. Yeah. Well, you know, it's like drinking the nectar of the earth is like drinking nectar. Yeah, you could do that. Drinking the soil flavored juicero bag, just a bag of soil. Yeah. Also, there's an amazing part where it does genuinely seem like Tesla,

which is where he says that like working with freelance welders and machinists, he built prototypes in his Brooklyn kitchen. By 2013, he had a working model, albeit one that occasionally blew apart sending pieces of metal and food scraps flying across the room. All contained safely on top of the counter. Hey, honey, do you want a 90% chance of juice? I love this quote as well. So when he raised like the first load of seed capital, it says,

with the extra money, Mr. Evans began hiring software engineers, mechanical engineers, food scientists and app developers. It wasn't long before Mr. Evans realized he needed still more money. The innards of the machine were complex, but manageable. It was the software, a lot of reduction, felicity, the electrical testing, and a thousand other things that necessitated a bigger stuff. May I remind you that this is all in order to squeeze juice out of a bag? Well, actually, I was remembering what Gareth said.

A lot of it's just to close the door. Yeah, but that's not easy. So the venture capitalists really like a up this product or drank it up. Oh, well. Venture capitalist Ben Einstein, who has literally the best name. And that bugger up to be Ben Einstein. All right, Einstein. If Einstein was a bear, gentle Ben Einstein wrote that.

Juicero's press is an incredibly complicated piece of engineering, but that the complexity was unnecessary and likely arose due to a lack of cost constraints during the design process. It's different polymers, Milo. Yeah, a simpler and cheaper implementation suggested Einstein would like to produce much the same quality of juice at a price several hundred US dollars cheaper, such as two US dollars to buy juice. This is the best one.

It's like prominent YouTube electronics and equipment reviewer, AVE, came to a similar conclusion in his own assembly and review video for the Juicero, demonstrating the ease with which the produce packets could be squeezed by hand and the considerable over design and build quality of the interior. Juicero then filed a complaint in federal court in April 17 against competing cold pressed juicing device, the frothy juicer, for allegedly infringing its patent of squeezing juice out of a bag. Well, I will say that we looked at the add for that other one

and that at least let you chop your own fruit. I know they were ahead of the game. They chop your own fruit, but who's to say you're not chopping chicken? Who's to say, you know, you're not harming any people. Yeah. You're not going to have any room on your counter. Yeah. You have several, you have two juicers.

You have your meat juicer and you have your normal juicer. You won't have a counter anymore. No, no counter left. You're going to have to get it. You already sold your other juice house because you got these juicers, but now you have too many. You got to get the juice house back. Oh, my God.

Now you're chopping your own fruit. What? Next thing you know, you're beating your wife. It's a slippery slope. Yeah. This is a harm free juice process. Okay. Yeah.

You can chop your own fruit, but how many polymers did you go through to build that thing? Yeah. Probably not eight. Yeah. Business Insider, though, were by far the most excited by this. They said the Juicera will be pricey at about $699 pricey. Yeah.

A Juicera Investor tells business Insider, although final costs are still being determined, but the product this person says is magical. It squeezes juice out of a bag. It's literally a clamp with a complex mechanism to keep the door closed. And a door. Yeah. And a door is a key door. The world's best clamp.

Okay. So the quote continues, when you have cured coffee, I guess it's a good cup, but it doesn't blow your mind. This blows your mind because the fruits and vegetables are in a natural state. It's just a beautiful thing. They're chopped up and inside a plastic bag. He doesn't understand what a natural state. It's like when you go pick a bag off a tree.

Yeah. The bag tree. I mean, I wonder what that person would feel in an experience when they would like actually just try to fruit. They would literally come. Wait until this person tries sex. It's crazy. There's no process involved.

You just, you put your penis right in there. Is that what you do? I've never had sex. I don't, did you catch this quote, which is from David Crane, a partner at Google Ventures. It's the most complicated business that I've ever funded. It's software, consumer electronics, produce and packaging. It's amazing.

That's a good omen. Fuck the ad. That was the, that was the amazing part of the hype for me. I think we're putting the ad in as the cold open. What's the ad? We can talk about the ad. We can talk about the ad for the Juicero where they like, it's an ad of these two people going like, God, isn't it so hard making juice?

It is the worst heightened. It is insane. And I know one of the guys in it. I know a guy who like waves real quickly in it, which I was like, what the hell is he doing in this? It is over the top. Like it's impossible. Was he harmed?

He was killed. Yeah. He's a bag of juice. I drank him. It's suffocated by a bag of juice. They turned me off though, but it is insane. That little infomercial thing. Oh yeah.

Well, cause what's amazing about it is like, God, making juice is so hard. And it's this couple who go around about the process of literally all food preparation, which is buying ingredients and then making them into food. And they're like, God, how do people do it? And then no sooner have you actually made food than there's dirty equipment you have to clean, as though this is like an amazing thing no one could possibly injure. This is a man who will remind you was in the paratroopers. How did he survive?

And what without food for 70 years? Yeah. I mean, part of their list of like impossible things about juicing is you've got to go find your juicer. It's like, well, that's not fair to add onto the stack of things. It doesn't fit on the counter. Yeah. They put it on the counter.

It's like, okay, that's on the counter. You got to buy another house to keep your juicer. Yeah. And then they're like, oh, it's amazing because there's no cleanup, right? Because you get the juice in the bag and the machine squeezes it out of the bag. And then obviously you haven't made anything dirty because it was in a bag. As though these people aren't familiar with the concept of like packaged food and drink. Like you buy, you buy, you buy a carton of juice and there's no cleanup because you

just throw the cotton away. That's the thing. Like think about who all of these sort of people who are enthusiastic about this thing were at first two types of people venture capital investors with a zillion dollars and celebrities who also have a zillion dollars. These people don't actually, these people have forgotten what it is to just be alive. So they're like, wow, there are a lot of steps in the process of food preparation. We could disrupt with a lot of polymers.

Good. That's why this, that's why this seemed reasonable is because all of these people were like, Oh, shit. That is a lot of work. Also in the process of researching this, I discovered that like one of the, one of the guys inspirations was this like hule type company that make like drinkable gruel to keep you alive. That's literally called Soylent.

And I was seeing with my mate who works in tech and he and I was explained to him that like Soylent is like Soylent green, like the, the, the gruel that's made of like human remains that they feed to people with fruit names. Yeah. And then he explained to me that they called it Soylent because it's like a mashup of soy and lentils. So the people who invented this Soylent thing are unaware that there's a thing called Soylent, which is like a mythical thing made out of people that is like force fed to people in

a dystopian novel. Yeah. Meritocracy. They don't know all that dumb stuff. So they're free to think of like genius ideas, like how to close a door or make a juicer that can fit in a counter. It's the most remarkable cell phone. And shall we, shall we turn our attentions to the decline and fall of the Juicin Empire?

Ladies and gentlemen, it's your favorite bitch. It's still Olga from before the girl next door. You're stalling when you open up the note, aren't you April 19th, 2017. We all remember where we were, where we were reading the Bloomberg article that not only told us, but also showed us a video of two human hands squeezing a juicero bag. And, and you'll never believe it. Squeezing on the juice out by God. That's why I, that's why I asked Gareth about whether there's juice or chunks in it because

like, is it you, you're squeezing actual pieces with your hands? Well, they said that in like when you juiced it, the difference was, I think if you use the juicero, you would get eight ounces of juice. If you did it by hand, you would get like 7.5 or 7.6. That is correct. And on top of that, one of the investors came to the conclusion himself. But I will, I believe his name is Doug Chertok. Are you ready?

There's no doubt the packs can be squeezed without the machine. I'm still a huge fan. He also said juicero is still figuring out a sweet spot. I have no doubt they'll be very successful. Does it sound like he had some money invested? It's a machine for people with very weak hands. I mean, just sit on it. I don't own any hammers.

But a couple months before that, someone named Jeff Dunn. Is that his name from Coca-Cola? Yep. Joined in and basically the next day after this healthy beverage company, Coca-Cola, this reveal, he published a letter being like, we know what happened. Everything's going to be okay. This is an April 20th, September 1st. It closed.

What happened? I bet someone put the squeeze on them. Oh, wait, I want to... I'm sorry. We've got more pressing issues at hand. I want to read you some of his letter that was like, we know what happened. Who cares?

What are you going to have an empty countertop? What are you going to put there? That's embarrassing. Coffee machine down, man. You can put any pods in that thing. Yes. This is sort of slowly transforming from a way to cheat. Because I don't...

I feel like the juice arrow... I feel... I don't know about you guys, but researching this story, I felt constantly gaslit by just the little bits of insanity you're forced to keep believing. You have to remember, this is an invention that a guy made because he wanted to cheat death and be famous. Yeah.

Never mind. Continue. Okay. So, as I mentioned, April 19th is the Bloomberg reveal. April 20th. April 20th plays it. April 20th. Also, Hitler's birthday.

What's up? Hitler was the original stoner guy. So, he became CEO right away the next day. And the next day, he publishes this letter after all the backlash. Guys, there's so much good stuff here. Giuseppe's mission is to make it dramatically easier and more enjoyable to consume more fresh raw fruits and vegetables. And that's a really tough nut to crack.

It's not that tough to crack. You crack. Two hands can do it. Is it a raw or a steamed nut? A steamed nut. You're basically eating a dead body at that point. That's gross. That's a corpse.

Yeah. You're eating a nut corpse. You want to eat a living nut that can still struggle. You know what really steals my nuts? It should go to the hospital where his parents are. Which reminds me. Okay. Do you guys want to know the three reasons after everybody found out

about the hand thing? He's like still used your Sarah. Oh, yeah. Okay. I want to know. The first closed loop food safety system that allows us to remotely disable produce packs. If there is, for example, a spinach recall.

Total recall three. In these scenarios, we're able to protect our consumers in real time. Also, I love that it's like it just in the event like the company's issue. Big press releases when that happens like a lot of the time. It's not that difficult to like know that there's a recall or know that your thing is is gone.

I want to drink it. I'm still going to drink it. Are they worried that everyone's going to see the spoiled juice and just decide to ride the lightning and see what happens? I love spinach right now. I've lived my life long enough in fear. I will no longer stand aside and be bossed around by slightly spoiled spinach.

Also. Hey, just arrow. You've got your fucking Wi-Fi enable. Just fucking tell the people that there's a spinach. Spinach recall is fucking hilarious. Okay. Two, consistent pressing of our produce packs calibrated by flavor to deliver the best combination of taste and nutrition

every time. So maybe if there was, it was like arm day, you're not squeezing as well. Whereas Sarah squeezes the same every time. Do you have to squeeze beats more or less? Like are they worried that you'll over squeeze it? You'll get too much juice. If you get 8.1 ounces out of the beat, then it's all poison.

Too much beat. And three, connected data so we can manage a very tight supply chain because our product is live, raw produce and has a limited lifespan of about eight days. That is absolutely pointless. What you just said, what you just said is pointless. It didn't steam the juice. Because that's still, I can do it with my hands.

I can still squeeze those bags with my hands. What if you steam it? Anyways, you can reach. Olga, what if you steam it? You can reach him at jeffdoneatjuicero.com. Should we email him to squeeze in the bag? Meal system. We actually can't because everything about it is closed.

So April 20, 2017. Boom. He writes this. So we have May, June, July, August. He's trying to make this happen. September 1st. It's done. He's gone.

It's done. It's over on September 1st. His inbox was full. He was like, the only solution just closed the company. Hey, happy Labor Day. A bunch of a bunch of capital just got wasted. And if we've all read Thomas Piketty, we know that, you know, the only solution to inequality is mass destruction of capital

stocks. Exactly. Also Doug Evans, though. So also, how's he doing September 1st? September 1st is my birthday. Oh, no, no, no. He's drinking raw water. What's that you say?

I'm about to read you something about what raw water is and what our boy is up to. Also, he went to Coachella. He is doing fine. Who to Coachella this year? He's making a lot of money. Yeah. Because you notice that neither his parents nor his brother

had ever been to Coachella. They were all dead. This guy's so good at reasoning. So can I tell you what he's up to now? Yes. Juicera founder Doug Evans is continuing to get really into raw water, untreated spring water. Bakker say has vaguely defined probiotic properties.

And doctors say could potentially be filled with pathogens and dangerous chemicals. Yeah. Probiotic. Lycracinogen. It's alive. Evans, accompanied by a man. Let's go.

Identified as a fire dancer. Yes. What? Told Vice Reporter Will Turton that the implosion of Juicera was awful. He's committed to the vegan lifestyle. We know that. Can I read you a little more about what raw water is?

I would really like if you did. Okay. So just like what we know, what we know about raw water, it has vaguely mild sweetness. And I smooth mouth feel. That's all the carcinogens, man. Nothing that overwhelms the flavor profile. Rainbow grocery shift manager Kevin Freeman told the times.

A lot of water is controversial. What? What? Flavor profiles does water have? I don't know. Well, I think water has two flavor profiles, just clean or dirty. Usually.

Yeah. And he's saying, hey, what if, hey, you know, I mean, you wouldn't steam your water. You wouldn't steal a handbag. Are you guys ready to steam water? You're drinking toilet water with birth control drugs in them. What? Chloramine.

And on top of that, they're putting it in fluoride. Call me conspiracy theorist, mind controlling drug that has no benefit toward dental health. Okay. All right. It is a mind controlling drug. Obviously you got to drink raw water. I love that he thinks that like it's a mind controlled drug,

but also that it doesn't benefit our dental health. Do you think like the CIA would just be fair enough to like, okay, we do control your minds, but we will also look out for you. We'll do both. It was just an enormous coincidence that countries that have fluoride in the water also have in general better dental health on average. Enormous coincidence. It's mostly a mind control thing.

Have you ever seen better dental health and fluoride in the same room time? It's to keep you from hurting those flies. Unfiltered unsterilized spring water goes for thirty six ninety nine for two and a half gallons. Refills fourteen ninety nine a pop. Does it fit in your counter? Yeah, it comes in pouches.

I use two juicera outdated juicera bags as to implants. My favorite thing. My favorite thing about the raw about the raw water is he's like, yeah tap water contains all that bad stuff, but raw water contains helpful pathogens. But raw water is thirty seven dollars. Yeah, it's expensive and has bacteria. You've just got to go to wherever he's sourcing this water and just dump

Prozac and birth control in it and be like, fuck you, dude. And when I feel like, yeah, I'm just feeling better and my skin's clearing up and I haven't gotten pregnant recently. Morning after pill, more like a cup of tap water. The only safe thing is to drink your own piss. Oh my God, if a guy offers me a cup of water, a glass of water after we fuck, I'm like, what? Are you serious?

Are you trying to say you don't want to have kids? No, it's okay. We use a condom. No, we don't need to use a condom. We'll have some water. If you're worried about having kids just apply eight thousand pounds of pressure to your balls to kind of tie this all together. I'm glad that we have a system of allocating our economic resources that makes sure that visionaries like Doug Jones, Doug Evans, can literally never fail.

Doug Jones bringing juice back to Alabama. Yeah, that's him. Yeah, no, that Doug Evans can literally never fail. Doug Jones, you only have to pry a few pounds of pressure to just squeeze a Republican vote out of him. Spicy. There you go. Political satire from me. That's not what you expected, is it, listeners?

Anyway, yeah, so that is that's American now. That's the story of how Doug Evans never found out would kill to spare. How I met my dead mother. Yeah, that's that's all Doug Evans is. He's terrible Batman. Where are the nutrients? Juice Wayne. You're pouring birth control in the water. I think I think Olga. That's the episode title. Juice Wayne.

Juice Wayne. Oh boy, any, any, any, any, any final thoughts on on our on our big countertop polymers. I'm working for funny any hot Doug Evans tags around your town. Please just send the photos into our dm. Yeah, send it. Send us photos of Doug Evans graffiti. It will be great when he goes back to graffiti. Oh yeah. Doug Evans is Banksy. That's the best thing.

No one cared who I was until I closed the door. That was like, that was like, squeeze the bag. I should have squeezed the bag. No one had. Why wasn't it I squeezed the bag for getting who all these Batman villains are because as far as they know, they're just you doing impressions of people. You have merely adopted squeezing a bag. I was born in it. Squeezed by it. Okay.

Gareth any, any final thoughts out of you? I'm just proud of Doug and proud of a country that allows visionaries to spread their wings and fly. Yeah. The one on the trashy to table is standing up right now. Yeah. You know, I mean, you know, if you guys, if you guys had like single payer health care, you couldn't afford this kind of

shit, you know, this way it's like Stephen Pinker says technology means that society is always getting better. What is four tons of pressure? If not a hug, they had single payer health care, then his parents would have both died in a socialist hospital should have been even worse. All right. I think I think that about, I think that about wraps us.

I think I think we now understand why maybe capitalism wasn't so great. Thank you for letting Riley talk at you for a year. The real juice was the friends we squeezed along the way. Gareth, thank you very much for for coming on with us today. It was a pleasure. Thanks, Gareth. Thank you for having me and thank you, Doug.

And also I'm really sorry, not just to you, but to everyone who has listened to us for the last year. So thank you very much again to all of the listeners for listening to our show and I'm so sorry about all of it, about every single content, all the commie book clubs, all the all the terrible jokes. But hey, here's here's to another year of us fucking doing this shit and thank you once again to Jin sang who was giving us our

theme song. It's called Here We Go. You can find it on Spotify. Maybe commodify your descent with a t-shirt from little comrade and otherwise catch us wherever fine podcasts are found. And if you're not listening to Gareth podcast, the dollop, then you're a goofy and you should stop listening to ours too. Thank you.

We'll just start listening to his. That would be better. Yeah. No, start listening to his, but also we don't we don't want you on ours. We don't want you to die. Thank you all. We used as Olga and character is Olga.

Okay. And now pausing the recording. Good night everybody. Bye.