TRASHFUTURE - Mayonnaise Meltdown (ft. Pierre Novellie and Matt Zarb-Cousin) Part 1

Episode Date: October 11, 2017

No Hussein (@HKesvani) or Charlie (@cfppalmer) this week; instead Riley (@Raaleh) and Milo (@Milo_Edwards) are joined by Pierre Novellie (@pierrenovellie)... and Matt Zarb-Cousin (@mattzarb), an actual smart person (!) who shows for the second half of Part I, and all of Part II - which is out tomorrow. We talk about Perkbox - a company we may have started beefing with on twitter (we see you Perkbox) for giving bosses seeking employee engagement an alternative to "just pay them more, idiot," and Hampton Creek, a $1.1bn technology platform that exclusively makes weird mayonnaise. Like, follow, and subscribe my late capitalist subjects!

What, so hang on, these are just like grey sweatpants. Grey sweatpants that happen to be constructed in such a way that they interact with my body in such a way that I come when I wear them, especially when I wear them to sleep. I'll give you 30,000 for 20% of the business. Amen. Amen. Okay, well, welcome to Dirty Dragons Den, the new title of Trash Future Podcast, the podcast about how the future is trash, and we are lucky enough today to be joined by Pierna Velley,

friend of the show. Hello. It's a pleasure to be back, and if I make any flu noises, I apologize, but I've got something wrong with my bones. That's fine, we love chimneys in this podcast, isn't it? Well, that's the thing. Oh, God, Derek. I know this.

I mean, at least you didn't get vaccinated, so you're not mind-controlled by George Soros into joining Antifa. Yeah, or ensuring that random sections of Hungary have got less food, or I've not clear on the whole Soros thing, it all just seems insane. It's ironic, like, ensuring that parts of Hungary are starving. See, what we don't understand is that George Soros is playing like 69th dimensional chess, and we just have to hope that Trump is also playing 69th dimensional chess. That's the thing is...

He'll save us. That one looks like a horse. I want that one. Beautiful, huge horse. Before we jump into the cast, I will do a quick exegesis of a theory that I have, which is that I think people have an inbuilt need for larger than live characters like Trump and Soros and stuff to be playing 69th dimensional chess, because they can't cope with the fact that we are and kind of always have been ruled by just complete smooth-brained idiots.

Yeah, and also they can't cope with the idea that the universe is random. They need, like, well, that table fell over because of ghosts. You need rough brain in your diet. It's crucial, but that's why zombies often have digestive problems. But that's why they're so smart. Fibrous brains. This is appropriate as this episode is going to come out in October. This is the spookiest of the months.

Anyone got any scary Twitter names before we jump into the hashtag content? Oh, yeah. You got to change your name to a spooky one. At real Donald Trump, am I right? Oh, sir, sir, sir, I do not have any candy. You are too old to be trick-or-treating. What is that from? They're definitely part of the other one.

It's just blue-take Trumpipliers. Just blue chess. Oh, those just... Yeah. There's no more disgrace to the presidency, and no one else has ever been a disgrace to the presidency. I forget Richard Nixon and Obama's drone war, et cetera. It's always like someone from sort of KBBL news.

KBBL. I don't know. There was the... Why do Americans... That's from the Simpsons. KBBL is the translation of the Simpsons to Cape Barton Elephant. Yeah. But that's always who it is, right?

It's like, well, I'm the main news anchor for Northern Kansas. Spooky names. Yeah. I always tend to go for Piscar Buvelli. Piscar Buvelli. Piscar Buvelli. Piscar Buvelli. Sounds like a swimming pool-related fright in France.

Piscar Buvelli. If someone wanted to follow you on Twitter, Pierre, what would they follow? They would follow at Piennevelli. You're going to probably want to help them with spelling that one. Yeah. P-I-E-W-R-E. N-O-V-E-W-L-I-E. And Peter Novels has still not gotten his mail.

With that... I did End of the Road Festival, and I had to do the dance I always do. You go up to the little booth of like, can I come in and be given my wristband and everything and I gave you ID, and they're like, you're not on the list. In the system and the computer, and I was like, OK, let's play this game again. Remove an R from Pierre and put a U in Nevelli, and let's see how that plays. Just trying all these different iterations of how you could possibly spell my name. As your name becomes gradually more Greek.

Yeah, well, that's it. Like, Pierre Novel was at the festival as it turned out, and he didn't turn up to pick up his wristband. So I got his wristband. Oh, that's good. Yeah. He was really annoyed when he turned up a minute later. That's right.

What do you mean? You don't have it. You don't have it. And it was just Pierre in a big fake mustache. We have Pierre Novel. Yeah, that's it. Milo, do you have a scary Halloween name on your Twitter? What would my scary Halloween name be?

You don't have one. I mean, my middle name is Leonard. That's pretty scary. It's pretty scary. Milo, Milo, Kill. What's the name? Milo, you're not. That's pretty scary.

There you go. Yeah. I have been mistaken for him before. Did you ever meet him at Cambridge? No. I think he's quite a lot older than me. I met him twice. I think you're in the middle ground between us.

Yeah. Well, he was a mature student. Okay. Wilson. So if you want to follow Milo, it's at Milo underscore Edwards. Yeah. On Twitter and Instagram. And if you want to follow me, it's at Rala, R-A-L-E-H.

And my scary Twitter name is Rala Ween. That's good. That's nice. Milo, Milo, in Nopoulos, Edward Snowden. Oh. That's scary. Edward Snowden also lives in Moscow. Because of our modern time.

I kind of like, I kind of like friend of the show, Ahir Shah's Twitter name, which is just Halloween Ahir. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, that's funny. He's keeping it simple. Yeah. Going back to basics.

Yeah. Maybe I should pick. I mentioned this in my Edinburgh show, but Isle of Man has its own traditional Halloween. Maybe I should do that. Oh, the weird. Yeah. More scary.

Like actually much more unnerving Halloween. It's still the same ritual. Less slutty. More scary. Yeah. Presidically like, no, like your dead relatives will come back and be angry with you if you don't do the following things. Fucking hell.

My relatives are angry enough when they were alive. Good God. Yeah, that's it. And you just go like, oh no, the world of the dead is always next door to our world. It's just that tonight at the boundary is most permeable. The veil is as thin as Riley's sweatpants. How racist is grandpa now? And as full of ectoplasm as Riley's sweatpants.

Guys, shall we do the cast? Yes. Yes. Let's do it. Alia Yachta Est, they say. Alia Casta Est. So I've gone through the internet as I usually do, trolling my sort of Twitter. Right.

He prints out the internet every week and read through it on his sun lounger. A little light reading. Pretty racist. And a lot of viagra ads. And we've got two things that we want to discuss today. Yeah. The first is a company called Perkbox. And we're going to go through what that does in why it's dystopian.

And the second is an article in the Atlantic titled Mayonnaise Disrupted that was sent in by Hussein Kesvani. Yeah. Nice. Hello, Hussein. Hi, Hussein. Thank you for lending our podcast an air of respectability by not being stupid on it like we are.

Our podcast is like the Jonathan Ross show. It sort of gains credibility by just having people who are credible on it. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. That's the shape of its container. Guys. Perkbox.

Perkbox's main slogan is happy teams do great things. Yeah. And then their explanation for why they exist and we'll tell you what they are in a second is 61% of the UK's workforce is quote disengaged. This means they are not passionate about their jobs or loyal to their companies and it costs the UK economy. And they're not firing on the enemy. 340 billion pounds a year.

Engaging your employees boosts productivity and makes your company a more attractive place to work. With neither of you guys doing an irony, how do you think realistically employees could be more engaged? Because there's always this thing of like, oh, but they're not passionate or loyal. But then the double side of it is that there's like the people asking them to be passionate or loyal are people who themselves move between companies and would view excessive loyalty as a thing that gets in the way of promotion and stuff.

Often promotions have to be done by moving company or whatever. So it's like a hypocritical expectation. If I was some dipshit or whatever, and I've done some pretty dipshitty jobs, not many, but some real stupid ones, if they literally just said, hey, if you suck less of this, we'll just give you more money. Okay, great. Like if they just said, we'll give you literally like double what you've made if you create four times of as much value like enough of a share of it.

And I go, yeah, fine. I don't need a hat or I don't need you to like me. And I like double my production. If they said, we don't even expect you to smile while you do this joyless task. Like we understand that you're doing this because you want to not die of no food. And that's what being a standard comedian is. Exactly. Exactly.

The audience is my boss and they're cruel, but very pragmatic. Yeah. I think at some point in the 80s, being like having a job became like being a prostitute whereby you weren't just expecting to do the job. You expected to act like you enjoyed it at the same time, which I really was. And it's like, okay, this job is dumb. Yeah. And I'm doing it for money.

Yeah. We all know this. Yeah. Like why do we have to pretend like like I'm passionate about French fries. Yeah. About not dying. Yeah. Hunger.

But also it's that thing of like essentially what they're doing is they're looking at cults or or or charities. I'm passionate about French fries. You could say it like a McDonald's interview. They're looking at cults or like religious groups and stuff and going like, well, oh, well, like political groups. And it's like, well, they get so much done and they're so productive because they believe in it.

And they go, yeah, but like a political party or a religion will never be able to inspire the same level of priceless devotion as like your fucking nugget startup. It's not going to happen. No. So I think those are, that's actually both very reasonable opinions from. The way Ryan is waving his hands around to direct the chat sounds like he's a cricket umpire awarding scores. So take one.

So I'm going to tell you how Perkbox aims to solve again this very simple problem of people hate their jobs. They're not engaged. Yeah. Perkbox's bright idea is, hey, what if. Okay, we still play everyone a garbage wage. Yeah, we still make them stay very long hours, but don't give them employment security. But what if we give them what if we give them.

Argos vouchers or beer on Friday beer on at last beer on Friday. I've never had a beer on Friday on Thursday. Terrible. Well, this beer on Monday and expecting us to keep working on Tuesday morning. And finally we can go to Argos. I've been stuck in Sparta all these years. I barely get that. And that's only thanks to the Rome Total War games.

So long if I wanted to raise an army of 2000 ships and wage war on Lissia. People of Thrace have prospered for too long. Vouchers will be there downfall. All of my fleeces are artificial. Why are they gold? There was the reason why Troy was so hard to sack was because they kept all of their merchandise behind a large wall. He had to go on the count and request the Trojans to bring it to you using a small pencil.

That's right. And the Trojan horse had one of those little waiting to be called up numbers. Yeah. To take a ticket. I love correcting people's ancient Greek references. It's one of my favourites. Which demonstrates what a completely unsuitable person I am for the modern world. But if you have knowledge, what's the point of having it if you can't ever use it at the tiniest

opportunity? Exactly. If someone ever says anything about Vikings, you better believe I'm fucking all over it. Well, you guys were riffing on that. I spent a little time on the internet. And so what you can do with Perkbox is it allows bosses to give out little certificates like master multitasker to their employees. Holding an envelope in a pencil, which is much larger than the envelope, which I feel

portrays the notion of the sizes of envelopes in pencils. Given how envelopes are intended to work, I don't think it's too much to expect someone to use an envelope and a pencil to presumably address the envelope with not really multitasking. It's tasking. Basic tasking. Wave the envelope, wave the pen, but then combine. What this reminds me of is, I just wanted to confirm the quote here, is Napoleon Bonaparte says, a soldier will fight long and hard for a bit of coloured ribbon.

Yes. What they forget is in the 19th century, coloured ribbon was one of the most valuable commodities. A little bit of purple trim on your toga. Could be exchanged for 100 kilos of salt. Could be exchanged for African slaves. Essentially what Perkbox does is it allows you to try and trick your employees into working harder for you without actually sharing any of their productivity, any of the fruits that are labour with them.

It's a capitalist version of a staconovite. It is your pride in coal mining. That should be, I suppose. I suppose I'm proud of coal mining. If American soldiers get the purple heart, do they get the black lungs? That's the medal for heavy smokers on duty. They get the black lung. Imagine smoking in a coal mine.

There's just too much oxygen down there. My lungs are open flame. Basically what I find so galling about this is how paltry many of the actual rewards are. You can incentivise your team by giving them a Curry's PC World 100 pound gift voucher. What does that really get you? You can either save on your computer, you might be able to buy a pair of headphones, but you'll have to grind yourself into dust slaving away for your company from 10 o'clock to get a little certificate and a little discount

that you definitely didn't even pay £100 for. I've bought the cheapest possible laptop from PC World slash Curry's before. You sound like you did that for material almost. How bad can it be? I did it because I had a habit of just buying cheap shit and not treating it very nicely because it was cheap and then it just wore out. Anyway, the point of it is, the thing is like £350 still. I mean, I think there were cheaper ones.

It's a very heavy laptop. Probably why it was so cheap. That's right. International. It is Ada Lovelace's original. You have to carry down a flatbed truck which really eats into the savings. This is the UK, the buffer zone between imperial and metric measurements. You can sort of use either. It was still like 350 quid or whatever.

Anything less than that was verging on like a tablet with a keyboard kind of level of computing power. You're like one of those V-tech ones. It's like the cow goes moo. Yes, exactly. The Excel spreadsheet says you have no money. A big plastic telephone on the side. I don't need an Excel spreadsheet to tell me that. Get me the Pentagon.

I think that's what they've given Donald Trump instead of the nuclear like a Flintstone phone. North Korea says boo. But of course the rewards have to be a poultry, right? Because otherwise all the company would be doing is say, hey, it will cost more for you to lavishly reward your employees by using us as needless middlemen. That would mean that they couldn't be a business. Whereas for them to be a business they need to say, the amount you'll save won't negate the amount you spend on paying us to be middlemen

by telling you just to give your employees fucking hourglass vouchers. But also one of the big tricks of it is that a lot of it's in terms of competitions. Like who can attend the most meetings or who can put in the most hours. And you can attend the most meetings. Honestly, like our episode of Hussein last week, so I guess this is going to come out this week as I just dated it. We talked a lot about like how most of the modern work culture seems to just exist to perpetuate itself and not to create anything.

Yeah, I think trash feature the podcast which references the previous episode of the podcast. So when your whole motivation to work isn't that you're actually doing something, isn't that you're enacting any change in the world, but that you're just stamping a piece of paper and moving it into another inbox where someone else can stamp it. When you just exist as a kind of... Useless bureaucratic cog. We just lost the tankies.

I'm sure we'd lost them for some completely unforeseen reason minutes ago. You can only be motivated by sort of being handed out little trinkets. It's like the bread and circuses, but much more sort of tech and friendly and trying to subsume your whole life into an office-based existence until you get an alpine sleeping bag to hang from the climbing wall in your fucking old street converted warehouse. But it's the same sort of everywhere, isn't it? Even like the Chinese civil service hundreds of years ago

had all these different hats with different colored buttons on and the Soviets had the various random orders of the red banner, orders of the you've had three kids. It's all like the Boy Scouts. People need little signals and... I don't know the time check because my garage brand measures things in bars. You can change that. We've been talking for 713 bars.

You can change that in the upper right-hand thing next to the... Yeah, we're good. Twenty minutes. So there's like arbitrary rewards. So I have a fun digression about this, which is that so one of my good Russian friends, so I live with a couple years, his mom, he's a very nice lady and worked as a translator, weirdly for the British police in Belarus

for a long time, they're investigating some weird Second World War war crimes. But she's like, I'd say one of her defined characters is she's quite like a sweetly naive lady. But when she was a child, she's obviously more naive and she was made to be in the Soviet boy and girl scouts thing called the pioneers. And in the pioneers, they used to tell them that Lenin is your grandfather. Lenin is my grandfather.

And they also, the Soviet propaganda was Lenin is alive, Lenin will live. But obviously Lenin was literally dead. I mean, you could go and see his dead body. So it was weird. There's a lot of cognitive dissonance in this. I'm going to edit in the clip from The Simpsons where Lenin is brought back to life.

Must, crush, capitalism. We fooled you all. But yeah, and so, and then one day she was at some pioneers event and all the local party officials came down to watch her doing some play or something. And then she asked one of the local party officials, this is one of her like most formative child memories. She was like, when is my grandfather Lenin coming to watch the play? And she was like, and they all panicked because they suddenly realized

that like they couldn't tell me that Lenin was dead. Because that was against all of their party propaganda. But they also couldn't say he was coming because then, well, what the fuck would happen when he didn't come? So they just sort of were like, run along that little child. Go eat some sugared beets. Sugared beets, that's for the bourgeoisie. Regular beets.

No, it's untriggered beets. Normal beets. Now you have to edit in the clip from Archer where Nikolai Jakov says, no, no, I don't kill for my beets. I get my beets delivered in limousine. So it's surprisingly unfair. I'm probably just going to keep the references to editing in as opposed to like bothering to rip these from YouTube.

It's a regular aesthetic of our podcast. As we say, we're now going to edit the same, but then we just describe it. They get it or they don't. If they care too, they can search it out. They're Google-able. Yeah, it's all very Google-able guys. There's dang intonance. So yanking us back to our core concern for the first segment of this episode,

Parkbox, pretty dumb, right? Yeah, well, I mean, inevitably. If your job is boring, then it's boring. It's something you picked for this podcast. There's a definite confirmation bias listening to this podcast. Part of the reason as well that so many jobs, because there was that article years back, I can't remember, it was basically just explaining,

it was theorizing that loads of jobs are just made up to keep you down, man. Bullshit jobs. That was our subject last week with you saying. I saw that I read a rebuttal to it saying, rebuttal in the sense of not saying that your jobs aren't bullshit or boring. They very much are. All jobs are boring to an extent. But pointing out that the satisfaction that humans get from knowing that they are the doers,

I made that or I predicted that or I did the maths for that thing to occur. That's all the computers now. That's why Nosferatu was so happy all the time. That's right. I sucked all that blood out of that person's face. He was very satisfied. High job satisfaction, low wages, low benefits. But that's what being done by computers now.

So inevitably your job is just to be like, did the computers do this right? Compliance, are we breaking the law? HR are the people who ensure that we're complying and the computer did it right and we're not breaking the law. Happy legally in the job while they're doing it. So it's essentially the people who enable the great machine, regulating the great machine in as much as it needs to be regulated

and therefore regulating themselves and within the country that they're in. And that's most jobs. You sound weirdly like an early 20th century dystopian novel. We must regulate the great machine. Yes. It has been built out of brass and clockwork. Great calculator. It's almost as though we are in some kind of dystovia.

OMG. What? It's not the steampunk kind that everyone in the early 20th century imagined. But that's the worst thing is that we're in like... Everything was made of glass, bizarrely. It's about how fragile that material is. It's only in the last 10 years that you could start to change the argument that we're in the best dystovia because late Victoria in London was definitely dystovia.

Any society that has an event called the great stink is definitely a dystovia. Oh, fuck yeah. Or any society where it's like, well, I couldn't find a penny. All my children had to be sold. Oh, fuck. Just horrifying. Awful. Brutal.

Yeah. Victoria in England was bizarre. Like the work house. Yeah. We're going to give these poor people pointless tasks just to punish them for being poor. We'll pave your stuff, but we don't want you to like it. Build these wallets. Well, here's the interesting thing though.

I had an article in the New States about this. And that's a modern world. I had an article in the work house. That's the thing. I had an article in the New States about this not long ago. Which was basically suggesting that the way modern benefit systems are administered is largely akin to the work house in as much as the work house was based on this thing called the principle of less eligibility, which means that it exists to make life on

essentially Victorian benefits less pleasant than the life of a worker. Because there was this idea that the poor had to be discouraged from being poor because poverty and immorality were seen as largely the same thing. Yeah. And what my article posited was that that point of view hasn't really gone anywhere. That sort of, if you want to apply for universal credit, for example, even if you're already on a job and you're getting in work benefits, you need to prove that you're working like an additional 40 hours a week to find another better job.

Yes. Yeah. It's ridiculous, but can't be relaxed because there's this idea that still the poor had to be punished for being poor. But it's not also academic is like, ah, the morality of the ha ha ha. It's very practical of like, well, if you can get more out of doing nothing than doing something, then you'll do nothing. And then surely the problem is that the level is set by how low level workers are treated.

But also I think that that makes a key mistake about human nature, which is that I think ultimately one of the reasons I'm such a commie is that I trust that if people are given the space to, they will be productive. And if we have, they'll be productive, but directed towards their own ends. They'll be more creatively productive. I mean, you're saying it's a podcast that I am on. Yeah. A lot of space.

Oh God. I'm self-employed. I'm a very poor employee. If they have, if that holding them sort of their lives ransom. Yeah. Essentially means that they're sort of forced into drudgery, which feels to me like a kind of internal prison. Oh, no, sure.

But what I'm saying, like drudgery is always bad. But what I'm saying is that the problem surely comes when the level of the lowest worker is so low as to make being poor and not working suffering. Whereas if we just raise the level of the worker to like the level of maybe a Norwegian lower working class, like a Norwegian janitor is better off than an English janitor. A Swedish janitor is better off than an English janitor. For sure. Et cetera, et cetera.

But nothing else because the other people, they get to socialize with the Norwegians. They don't have to hang out with the English. Depends how far north you had to meet some Norwegians. Chaps, I found one article on the Perkbox blog that I would like to kind of read briefly. Okay. To trash future listeners. I probably read it before. I actually just found it.

We are going to be going back to the Perkbox blog because it is beautifully stupid. Okay. This article is entitled Driving Loyalty in Your Millennial Workforce. Oh, okay. The less popular sequel to Driving Miss Daisy. We're all millennials, right? Yeah, I think we're all millennial shitheads. It's a bit born between 84 and 95, I think.

Perfect. Okay. So a recent Perkbox study, so you guys know this is going to be unbiased. I mean, it's conducted by real men in white coats. Dr. Perkbox. This is my laboratory. Exactly. Found that almost half of all millennials are likely to leave their jobs than a year,

far more than previous generations. This unsettling statistic is compounded by another. 76% of millennials identified as feeling valued or highly valued for their work. Again, more than older cohorts. So it's almost like millennials don't have a lot of job security, but we feel valued when we're in a job. It's almost as though maybe people give us a lot of pats on the head and very little fixed-term contracts.

I find it really weird when you get all these statistics about, oh, millennials like leave work at 5 p.m. on the dot. And it's like, well, they're working for the time that they're paid. And the people that are paying them are making far more money. Okay, I get it. When you're in a working environment, everyone has to pitch in. Sometimes you might have to stay an extra half an hour, but that gets paid back to you,

and sometimes you might have to leave half an hour early for something else. But that's the difference between our generation, and if you look at necessarily the 70s and certainly the 80s, where it was like, I know I'm making the man three floors above me disproportionately rich, or the executives, or the board, or the investors, or whatever, but I'm being paid so much, and purchasing power parity is worth so, and I can have so much that I don't care.

It's worth my time to do it anyway, and it's worth my time. But then when you apply that to like a minimum wage job, it doesn't work. There's no point staying late at McDonald's. Or a zero-hours contract. But that's what I'm saying, and especially, but if you look at just the power of currency, like the minimum wage should now be what, 10 pounds, 80? Or something if it's going to buy you as much as it did when it was introduced.

Imagine if you lived when it was introduced, yeah, if I can stack bad wine in Aldi for sort of nine to five, and I have this incredible, the equivalent of someone being paid 10 pounds, 80 an hour now, which in a job like that is unheard of. Yeah, of course you're going to be fine with it. It's bribing people into tolerating something boring. That's what everything is. You see, I really struggle having these conversations with my parents,

because my parents ran their own business for a long time, and my parents would like... Milo's petty boy, which was the everyone. I mean, well, my parents are like working class, but they're like, you know, self-made, you know, whatever, like, I mean... No, pre-thatcher, my parents are old. I like seeing the UK statistics where 50% of the population

identifies working class, and according to actual job style, it's like 7%. I don't identify as working class. I do identify as working class. Yeah. Well, it's largely because of my relationship to production. I draw a salary from capital and live on a salary. That's it.

I have the cultural indicators of someone who's middle class, but I think a lot of those cultural indicators just serve to decrease solidarity amongst people who draw salary from capital. Riley, I realize that you have a lot of sex with socialist girls that you meet online, but there's a limit to what you can plausibly claim. Yeah.

I mean, you have been to too many top Russell group universities to really conceivably claim to be working class. You've got to type a lot harder to get calluses on those. There's only so divorced your parents can be. And that's the trailer. Let's not forget, even as recently as the late 90s, early 2000s, even in London, it was like, well, you know, it's hard to buy a flat in London,

but after saving up for three years, I bought a two up, two down in zone two. Oh, that sounds hard. It was so easy back then. It was like, well, you know, I only have a garage for one of my three cars. And you're not even that exceptional if you're in like a rural area or anywhere

north of a particular line across England. You guys are talking about like wages and stuff, but Perkbox identifies sort of loyalty and sticking power. They say more so than the older working cohorts, millennials are attracted to organizations that offer career progression. Again, maybe because we want to eventually buy a house or maybe because we want to eventually not be in debt.

Yeah. Because career progression is so crucial to, as you say, not have a life that sucks forever till you're dead. But then in most articles, I worry about that so much. In most articles about how to work with millennials, it's always clear propaganda because around this point it has a turn where they say, yes, millennials are interested

and basically we just want money. But they say, ah, but millennials are interested in other things. 87% of the, I'm sure, very randomly chosen cohort held the belief that the success of a business should be measured by more than its financial performance and that almost three quarters of millennials, surprise perk box, were found to be motivated

by personalized benefits in addition to their salary. Yeah. Don't pay us more. Just give us a discount gym membership. But it's very easy to say yes. Because if you asked me the question that vague, I'd say yes. It's like, on top of all your money,

would you like us to personalize things, gifts for you? Yeah, I guess. You get just terrible gifts, but they all say Peter Novel only. Oh, Perry Neville. Oh, how personalized. Perry Neville's plastic wallet. World's best Perry Neville.

We're all going to die renting in deep in debt, but at least we'll look amazing because we got 5% off our pure gym membership. That's it. We're going to take a quick break and then we're going to come back and talk about a really strange mayonnaise company. Welcome back to the second segment of Trash Future,

the podcast about how the future is trash, where we are joined by our very special guest, Matt Zarb Cousin. Hello, thanks for having me. Matt Zarb Cousin can be found on Facebook as Matt Zarb at Matt Zarb Facebook Twitter. And he has joined us to talk about this extremely stupid company,

the stupidest company we've ever talked about. For any listeners who may be confused, we are still joined by Pierre Novelli. Oh, yeah, I'm still here as well. It is still the same episode you were listening to. You've not lost yourself in space and time. Yeah, we've just had, we're just switching up the lineup a little bit.

Yeah, it's one of the few times where due to our disorganization, the podcast has gotten even better because we were supposed to record another episode with Matt later, but this episode's over and Matt arrived and we were like, well, you may as well join on this one as well.

It's a perfect storm of incompetence that's led to actually something good. So guys, I received an article in my Twitter DMs entitled Mayonnaise, Disrupted. How did Josh Tetrick's vegan mayo company become a Silicon Valley darling and what is he really selling? Spoiler alert.

Is it snake oil? Spoiler alert, Mayonnaise made of snake oil. That's not vegan. It's synthetic snake oil. Did the snake consent? That's the only way that you can get away with that. What I'm struck by in this article is that there's largely two threads to it, I think,

which is that Josh Tetrick, 37-year-old CEO and co-founder of Hampton Creek, the mayonnaise company, is a complete psychopath. And then Hampton Creek, the mayonnaise company, I think might be a grift or some kind of fraud. I wouldn't trust mayonnaise I found in a creek. It's not what I would expect reliable mayonnaise to come from.

A gully with water at the bottom. That sounds like it might contain some salmonella. Can you get salmonella in vegan mayonnaise or is it cleaner somehow, because there's no egg in it? Yeah, no egg. But salmonella is a persistent... It strikes me.

It just appears everywhere. Salmonella finds a way. How has he managed to make this unsafe for human consumption if it's got no egg in it? Well, that's the real feat of, I think, the... Now with added poison. The sort of highly tech, disrupt culture is because they're so obsessed with their sort of aesthetic

of innovation, disruption, and, quote, the new. They can just fuck up in so many new and interesting ways. Wait, so it's unsafe to eat? There have been allegations. I skim read the article, but I missed this. I didn't see that. Oh, my God. That's amazing. So let's hop in. Josh Tetrick, the 37-year-old CEO

and co-founder of Hampton Creek, a startup valued at $1.1 billion, by the way. Oh, my God. Surely that's started. I'm going to say keep that figure in your mind as we go through this article. This startup is valued at $1.1 billion. This is the opening line of the article. Fixed his unblinking eyes on a job candidate.

So already this is clearly a very regular guy. Yeah, he is a regular, fun guy. So who he is, I sort of gone through and pulled some selection from the article. Who is this guy that has this possibly unsafe mayonnaise startup? He's a former lawyer turned vegan food startup in Presario. What's in the article? Tetrick insists that Hampton Creek is not a vegan food producer.

He has called it a, quote, tech company that happens to be working with food. As said, the best analog to what we're doing is Amazon. I'm not in the, I'm not in the mafia. I'm in a waste disposal business. It happens to break your kneecaps. There was waste in your knees. I took out the waste.

Using robotics, artificial intelligence, data science and machine learning, Hampton Creek, according to Tetrick, is analyzing the world's 300,000 plus plant species to find sustainable, animal-free alternatives to ingredients in processed foods, which Riley said editorializing is something I think humanity has spent the last 10,000 years doing.

Because what makes this most interesting is he hasn't necessarily done a great job. You're never going to make a vegan mayonnaise that is going to satisfy someone who really misses mayonnaise recently. Like if you haven't had mayonnaise in 20 years, then you could trick yourself into anything. You could have mine.

You may have been in a North Korean work camp. That's right. I think it's quite difficult to find light for like substitutes for this stuff. I mean, but haven't they found a way of like growing meat in a lab? Yeah. And potentially not have to farm animals anymore.

What that's interesting is the reason it's difficult isn't to get the cells to grow, but to get the texture of meat and to get it to multiply. What you need to do is recreate muscles being used, like weightlifting almost, and they would string these large muscle strands across these two points and would have to alternately electrify the two points

to create jolting, which would increase the mass of this kind of blob. Wouldn't that just use an incredible amount of electricity? No, no, no. Tiny, tiny, tiny amounts of electricity. This is this big. And also, like, once we crack the whole cold fusion thing, we'll have loads of electricity.

This all sounds a lot like a sexual fetish. So far, the most prominent manifestation of Tetra, again, former linebacker who declines to blink, is to rethink the pillars of our food system by so far just creating vegan mayonnaise. Right. That's more or less. Mayonnaise was one of the key pillars of the food system.

That's right. Hodge. Twigs. Hodge. Yeah. That's right. Yachts. Charity.

Charity. And bananas. Yeah. I think this is where I'd like to remind everyone that it's worth 1 billion. Those are the main pillars of it. It's worth 1.1 billion dollars. 1.1 billion.

Yeah. He makes mayonnaise. That's apparently not very good. These are possibly Zimbabwean dollars. Yeah. That's crucial. There's Grace Mugabe behind this. We might wonder,

how can a company that famously just makes just mayonnaise and that is famously not very good, be worth 1.1 billion dollars? Anyone got any theories? I mean... Oh, could it be pyramid scheme-style investment solicitation? Ultimately, yes. We will end up there.

Okay. It's the Silicon Valley or a boros. It always ends up back at pyramid scheme-style investment solicitation. I love it so much. It's like, invest 10 million dollars in our company for 5%. Like, well, why should I do that? Because next week, some people who are more down-the-new will pay 20 million dollars for 5%,

and then your 5% will notionally be worth double what it was today. And you can sell it to them again as well. You can sell it next week for 30 million. Do you think it's a combination of two crucial things in California? One, a very high number of vegans and a very high demand for good vegan food. And two, a very high amount of cocaine. Are those two market factors leading to this enormous investment in a vegan food company?

I love it. Because that makes a lot of sense to me. A lot of things seem like a good idea on camera. If you're a Silicon Valley critic and all your friends are vegan, then that's like, well, everyone needs vegan mayonnaise. At some point, the two of you are going to go into a bathroom stall and have a loud, fast conversation about how we need to invent a fucking food startup or a restaurant.

We need to disrupt something. Well, that's it. I don't mind who is a vegan who I meet up with him for lunch in neutral territory. You know, we can both have a lunch that we deem to be food, which is not easy, but it's getting easier. He was telling me about making a vegan BLT, but how difficult it was to create the B part of the BLT, obviously. I would have anticipated that where the problem would come in.

Yeah. But then maybe he's saying that they were really difficult to make and not that great, but fine. But a crucial part of a BLT is often mayonnaise. So yeah, you've been a toilet cubicle with some other guy who also hates his vegan BLT. I've just realized what it's missing. Poisonous mayonnaise.

Poisonous mayonnaise that routinely gets. I know a guy. It's a dangerous time for someone to pick his new alternative to mayonnaise in a toilet stall with you. It's a very subtle. Come on. I also feel like... It's cruelty free.

We can make... Harvested in sauce. We can make millions out of... We can make millions out of vegan mayonnaise. Can only ever be followed by the sound. Yeah. The journalist for this article set in on a job interview for like a mid-level IT position and said,

Tetrick told them after the job interview that he screens for employees who, quote, really believe in the company's, quote, higher purpose because I trust them more, which was based on Peter Thiel's famous advice. Start-up entrepreneurs should take inspiration from cults. Literally, yes. He is running...

This is a cult. And, you know, it says that this... I feel like you can't say stuff like that. I feel like even if you think it, it's like... There's a level of richness where... Yeah. Anything could come out of your mouth. The sun is the original energy market disruptor.

Yeah. Very good. You pay me a lot of money just to stand next to you at meetings. I'm not going to say that you're glad. On the great spectrum of world views, it's like horseshoeing around where Silicon Valley and the Druids. What sort of meeting in the middle?

Isn't it a lesson that if you give a human being enough money and power, they'll just become a version of a druid? That's actually the natural human reaction to money and power is just to get mystical and fucking weird. Every McMansion is actually secretly a very tasteless Stonehenge. I want to sort of peek under the curtain of Tetric a bit.

To kind of understand some of the mania that may have led him to... You may just sound like he wears a curtain, which is not prepared to believe. Well, Druids, man. This is the journalist with him at a dog park. As Tetric refueled with a four shot, four espresso shot Americano and a bagel sandwich. We watched his golden retriever puppy,

Ely, run around in the glass. He purchased her from a breeder specializing in life extension in dogs. Wow. Wow. That's like the one thing that you do learn from having pets. He's trying to remove that lesson. Everything must die.

The dog now with more battery life. He is essentially disrupting his colon with enough caffeine to, I don't know, give himself a stroke and also the shits. Interesting. Okay. Theory I've just come up with. If I was a guy running a startup that was built on air, or the very least, vegan mayonnaise,

I would attempt, if a journalist came around to interview me and spend a day with me, to have the most mental fucking day that I could possibly have. Because I knew that, A, that it would make it to print. And B, loads of other idiots who could invest in my fake company would be like, this guy's crazy. He must be onto something. He's a genius.

Yeah, because you'd never get any column inches if it was like, his startup's worth 10.1, who has it, 1.1 billion. And it's like, well, you know, he spent the day very carefully filing accounts. And you want to hear that he's got like four spurs of fucking robot dog that will never die in you. This guy's a genius.

As we hang glided over the nude beach, dropping eggs and, oh, you look good. That's what I want from that guy. I find him smoking at a gal oise, but he's looking at a naked candor of Richard Branson, which he's made himself. Smoking it in reverse. There's something of an inherent contradiction there, though,

because he's obviously producing this vegan food and he wants these vegans to like him, but he's just admitted that he's got his dog from a breeder. And isn't that like, the worst thing you can do? It's what I think he is level. Well, and that's true. And he wants the employees to be sort of cultically believing in some sort of mission.

But the most cultic mission believing people around could be vegans. And he's already fucking his whole thing up, right? He's already holding a dog prisoner who is essentially the offspring of enslaved dogs. I guess so. Although you don't want to meet free dogs. I'll tell you that.

Well, here's the weird thing about the dog. And this is kind of when I realized that the guy at the helm of this 1.1 billion dollar mayonnaise startup that famously produces bad mayonnaise might be a bit funny. Ely, the dog, was named by Tetrick after Holocaust survivor Ely Weasel because he considers it a quote, cool name.

Wow. I mean, it is a cool name. Let's not disagree, but that's a weird way to come across a cool name. But what really is telling, and I think is our segue back from this insane guy to this stupid ass company, is that Tetrick's free roaming pets

have been a point of contention with some of Hampton Creek's food scientists. The dog regularly ate research cookie prototypes on a few occasions, and then the vomit had to be cleaned up from the lab. Oh, do you know what that is, though? That's an environment where everyone's too scared to tell the boss's dog to fuck off from the cookie lab.

Because if you're not afraid of your boss, then if the dog comes in, you know that your boss wouldn't mind you. Food lab, you hairy idiot. You could shove the dog out the door. And the dog as well. But they're so terrified of him, they have to just sit mutely

as the dog just gambles in and eats one of their fucking precious cookie research. It's just his interfering with our experiments. It's like, this is my laboratory. Shit. Oh, God. Decades of research. That's stupid animal, and it'll never die.

They're also working on an important malaria vaccine there. The dog is also rude. Also, I imagine the breeder, if it's a golden retriever, then it's like, yeah, it'll never die, but it's terrifying inbred traits will mean that it just... It's life is torture.

Yeah, it lives to 30, but horribly. How could you wish that upon a dog? Basically describes Riley. Yeah, I'll live to 30, but it's terrible. But it's like saying, you'll live to 250 years old, but from 70 you'll have dementia, and from 80 you won't be able to move. And it's like, well, don't...

No, you fucking shoot me. It's a horrifying existence. That's his dog. This is the Eugenics podcast with PNM. Well, he's pretty... I'm another one who's created a private dog hell in one dog's mind. Speaking of creating private hells,

and this has been about just a dumb guy doing a dumb thing tricking dumb people. This is about to get pretty... Oh, he also is a shit boss. And we're going to kind of bring the anti-capitalism into it for a sec. Sure.

Former Hampton Creek employees, including several involved in its research efforts, all of whom declined to be named for fear of retribution, suggested that the company focused on the appearance of innovation... Guess which word Riley has added. No, none. I'm reading from the article. No editorializing.

The company focused on the appearance of innovation and disruption to the occasional... just occasional detriment of tangible long-term goals. They expressed frustration at being asked to allocate resources from developing an infrastructure or the food to designing, quote, cool-looking data visualization tools that seem like

they were just used for impressing visitors and potential investors. So this is essentially that episode of Parks and Rec, where Aziz Ansari's character has like a huge warehouse and they're all rollerblading around and there's like a water feature in the lobby and a Pac-Man machine.

It's that, isn't it? Yeah, it's the appearance of a better product, a better life, or something better, or some kind of useful service. But actually that disguises a sandwich

spread that famously tastes quite, quote, vegetal. And this isn't even just going on in... Vegetal is code for farty, isn't it, really? Farty, mate. One of my friends works for like a multi-billion-dollar shipping company and he used to spend most

of his work day making presentations about what he'd done for the rest of the day, which was mostly taken up by doing these presentations, which no one ever read, but he sent them to his boss. So that if his boss's boss asked his boss what he was doing, he was like, well, I'm keeping up

with what all my employees are doing by reading all these presentations. Yeah, yeah. But that's the trouble is that like, much like laundering money, if essentially your business is a money factory, that would be a money factory even if you didn't do anything. You can't admit that. Yeah.

No, you can't. Everything comes tumbling down. No, terrible. Like in the same way that socially I can't afford to often admit to people that, because I'm a stand-up comedian by job, because I was very brave and you go, it's not because it's perspective-based. It's brave for you. You're afraid of it. I'm clearly not.

It is my job. But it can be valuable in certain social situations to be perceived as immune to fear. So it's massively in my interest sometimes. This is very scary. If anyone here looks like they're immune to fear, it's probably you. It's what like World War One.

Yeah, exactly. I was at school with fear. I was at school with fear. Middle name Terrence. John Terrence fear. Fear would be, it feels like one of those English aristocratic names that's Norman, so it's two lowercase Fs conjoined.

There's really old school names where it's like fear. Boris Johnson has one of those names and there's middle names. Oh, Defeffel. Defeffel. But the Fs are those, it's like a letter we don't have anymore. It's a very normal thing. Maybe he could be a foreign secretary. We don't have anymore. Would that be kind of cool?

Well, he did, he said the bodies thing, didn't he? And now they want him to resign for talking about dead people. I read a conspiracy theory that Boris Johnson is trying to get fired because he literally can't survive on a cabinet salary because he has too many huge debts and out goings due to all of his illegitimate children, etc.

that like when he was making hundreds of thousands of pounds from newspaper columns, he was like on top of that ship and now he can only make 144,000 pounds a year. He's fucked. But also he's, I read a different one but that lines up nicely with the one I read which is that he's trying to get fired because

Brexit is like this hand grenade that everyone's taking turns hot keeping the pin in. And it's going like, how's it going? Defeusing the hand grenade. He goes, it's going fine. He's just with your hand on it going, it's going really well actually. Yeah, we're going to figure it out. And they're just noting on the news, we can't

defuse the hand grenade. The hand grenade is perfectly fine. It's all about best interests. But it's just everyone knows that if you're in the room where someone's arm gets tired, you're fucked and he's trying to get fired before it turns sour. So you can go well until I was fired, it was all great. No one will be able to prove that wrong. It's all about positioning, isn't it?

If Theresa May sacks him, then he's free to build up momentum, isn't he? Exactly. He's got a lot of soft power, a lot of influence and he can cause absolute carnage from the back benches and then he can launch a leadership challenge. But he doesn't sack him, which he's probably

not going to do. And he just looks weak. So it's worse than both worlds. He just keeps looking like a buffoon. But I mean, she's going for the Trump aesthetic where you basically can't discredit her anymore than she's already discredited herself. It's like, well, what can Boris Johnson really

do that's worse than everything else they're doing? Yeah. And it's that thing of when when competence is is no longer expected. That's the most dangerous thing if the public have been trained not to expect it because then they won't demand it and then it won't be provided.

I think we're going to melt. It's a different level now, though. It's not even like sort of party politics gameplay and it's like Oh, isn't he stupid? Everyone look at me stupid. It's actually now reached the level of this is actually quite embarrassing for the country. Like party politics aside.

Yeah, what you're doing now was picked up about by about 20 different international publications. Foreign secretary is at Boris Johnson is essentially the mustard stain on the UK's shirt. Yeah. But that's what's difficult is that if you say to people who like him or say to people who are

more on his team say like that sentence they'll go good. I'm glad the Johnny foreigner doesn't like wonderful bars. So it's impossible. It's like it's like if you said to Donald Trump like well, there's a lot of liberal arts majors who think you're a real piece and he'll go good.

Yeah, I'm glad. That's exactly what I want. Our politics is animated by and kind of out of this to tribalism. Yeah, we don't care about anything. We just know who we want to own and then we own them. What is the thing that we can do that will annoy the people we dislike the most emotionally? Then that is the right thing to

do. Carl liberals corn cobs. Was that the motto of the Confederacy actually like we know who we want to own and we own them deliberately. But it's about states, right? Senator Senator butthole seeds. Speaking of justice

I want to jump back at the Hampton Foods for a moment on Hampton Creek. They sell several things mainly Mayo under the brand name just so just Mayo but and the the CEO was clear to confirm this.

This is a reference to righteousness not simplicity. Okay. Which I think is the perfect encapsulation of the tech industry today. But also he was careful to say a reference to righteousness, not a claim. Otherwise he could get sued.

Yeah, I think exactly. Why would you choose an ambiguous thing that you have to explain? Just call it good. Just call it righteous. Yeah. Righteous is right there. It's a word. You could just use it. Vegan mayonnaise. Righteous vegan mayonnaise. The righteous vegan mayonnaise

is getting all of its stoutest nights and taking some strong ships to the Holy Land to really sort of reinforce the county attire. It tastes horrible, but that's not what it's about for you, is it? It tastes horrible, but that's not what it's about for you, is it? And again,

as I say this, remember this company has a $1.1 billion valuation, alright? And let me get through some of these facts. In 2015 an expose based on interviews with former employees alleged, among other claims, that this company was

Hampton Creek producing shoddy science mislabeling its ingredients and illicitly altering employees' contracts to slash their severance pay. Last year, another expose by Bloomberg, a sort of that Hampton Creek operatives actually were generating the sales by just going and buying vast quantities

of just mayo. Righteous mayo in an attempt to artificially inflate its popularity. Yes, Bloomberg, that famously lefty organization. And they also reported that executives were joining and quitting the company

when they realized it was doing nothing. So essentially this is, don't forget, a $1.1 billion mayonnaise startup that basically is just spending investors' money buying its own stuff. Allegedly. But what's, where did this valuation come from though, $1.1 billion?

I just realized we don't know that. It's not just them saying that. They're usually, they're usually valued based on what the last person paid for some stock. So basically the valuation is a calculus of how dumb your latest investor is. Okay. So it could, it could, it could not

actually be worth $1.1 billion, but in theory, according to that method. Someone, so someone paid, you know, like 10% of $1.1 billion for 10% of the company recently. Which makes the company notionally worth $1.1 billion. Right. But the first 50% could have been sold for

some jars. Some jars of vegan mayo. Isn't capitalism so great at allocating resources? I love this very efficient system. It's nice. Love, love to efficiently allocate resources. And I'm going to date us

anyway. Basketball throw rolls of paper towels into a crowd of Puerto Ricans. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. I didn't see that. So Puerto Rico is essentially destroyed. Did I just get from this that like

Trump is encouraging them to clean up a hurricane using towels? It soaks up. You got it. You got a dab. Don't wipe dab. He started watching. He started watching QVC. It's a sham. Look, you just, you wring it out over Cuba.

It's going to be fine. Okay. So I, I think we've, we've done a good job in doing this great thing and I'm going to call it a day. I'm just going to give you a little example of what's happening. So we start off with

Tetrick, a man who never blinks and named his dog after a Holocaust survivor, but there's one section of the article that I think a lot of us around this table have seized on a fucking cosplay which during a tasting I made gleaming mixers in convention and convection ovens a cheerful group

of 20 and 30 somethings were dipping where's the butter he said where's the butter he shouted to a chef who organized the tasting you've got to get the butter I assume he meant vegan butter or is he not understood

well Hampton Creek's plant-based butter Hampton Creek's plant-based butter was still a prototype the chef reminded Tetrick and then when the when the author of the article tried it she said she found it grainy and what's our favorite word? Vegetal.

Can I just ask is this written earnestly this interview is this like a real like because it does remind me actually of how these people are sort of plumped up as like visionaries but actually they're just complete idiots aren't they and it's the same with politicians politicians are just like people think

they're so much smarter than they actually are where's the butter where's the butter it reminds me of like it's sort of they're they're plumped up as visionaries to because if there is a real visionary like if you do find one that's way too valuable

to fucking tell people about like a good investment like when it's early and cheap what are you gonna tell everyone and then raise the price and fuck yourself no you're gonna be like fucking shut up and then when it's doing really well then you go oh it's doing well and I seem to own half of it

oh just sell it then like you're like the town idiot there's gold over here like no should have some that's like old school Wall Street doctor in life you're reading about in the newspaper it's too late yeah if I wait too late it could be as pointless as sitting around going

I hear this guy Warren Buffett's a pretty sound investor and thinking yeah it's sort of 60 years late to this man's career where you could have helped him in a way that it made you rich no these guys are like these guys are like in comedy you get people who pop up and are famous

for like a year right because they did a poo on a picture of the queen and then it got into the Daily Mirror and whatever and they never have any jokes and they have a big vine following or whatever like what's his face yeah yeah yeah that fucking guy he's a perfect example this is just the investing version

of Dapper Labs yeah when he was Dapper in his little Tertlnacopology interview he put on the fake glasses and then he shaved he did shave as if to say actually the beard was part of the character the sexual assault was contained in the beard

it was a haunted beard I got rid of it I shaved it don't worry I'm not a criminal anymore so this guy's like the sort of investment version of Dapper Labs a few people latch on and get burned and then he just fall away and then he just gives you some

rancid mayonnaise literally or metaphorically but always well I didn't realise that by making rancid mayonnaise I would result in people actually eating rancid mayonnaise I'm more of a satirical statement about mayonnaise I I was like imagine if mayonnaise was like this

I would explain himself to Emily Maitlis in a tone guys we don't make mayonnaise here or butter we're a technology platform that actually does AI we make nothing but this is a technology platform

that actually like constantly optimises all of the ingredients throughout human history to make a sustainable way that we can spread what essentially tastes like moss on a sandwich so billion dollars please I'd like the idea of where's the butter turning into one of those phrases like always be closing

like if he was a really big success so years from now people are saying the one thing you have to remember about the stock market is to always ask where's the butter where's the smart butter where's the smart butter where's the smart butter guys what I want to know before we

before we close out this fine episode of trash future the podcast about the future is trash you got an update on our favourite superlistener oh god Steven Seagal

I'm not going to lie to you Riley the Steven Seagal fact was it was not before honestly due to the fact that does anyone else have any Steven Seagal fact just like most episodes I have a Steven Seagal fact for this episode

is he listening to this? I hope so my one for last one was quite good can I just look up the story of that martial artist guy third hand through Joe Rogan or something talking about the time Steven Seagal pooed himself on the jujitsu mat

can we do that for the next episode that we're going to basically record in a few minutes after this I guess so yeah I've found a very fun Steven Seagal fact alright George Foreman of grill fame has challenged Steven Seagal to a fight

I love that his grill career has now so eclipsed a man who literally fought Muhammad Ali there good grills Brad there's now more fans for grilling my favourite twitter account is grill grill's gone wild Foreman's motive for challenging

Seagal is according to this article he's still a bit unclear though he claims he has starring Lena Dunham I would love that a show starring Lena Dunham all about just people getting mouth jewellery cooking healthy protein based meals

the fat drains out of the meat and into the base at the bottom of the grill it's a very simple system Nelly's there like this is some good chicken so while he has no personal animus it's being suggested that George Foreman that Seagal calling the recent NFL

protest quote disgusting might be maybe why challenge him to a fight personally I don't think anything would give me more happiness than to see the fake reggae, fake Russian, fake Japanese fake martial artist, obese glimmer man

get his ass handed to him by a man who's most famous for finding a way to cook fat free meat I mean if he could cook the fat out of Steven Seagal that would do Steven Seagal that would be a huge favour you'd have to empty that tray quite a few times and what would be in that tray

hideous years of fake expertise and that's where I think we're going to say good night for now good night good night good night