TRASHFUTURE - Migration Station ft. Zoe Gardner

Episode Date: July 9, 2018

Riley (@raaleh), Hussein (@HKesvani), and recently returned Milo (@Milo_Edwards) speak with migrant advocate Zoe Gardner (@ZoeJardiniere ) about refugees, migrants, right-wing opposition to all forms of immigration, endless liberal equivocation on the topic, and whether or not Riley is an economic migrant (he is). This episode was recorded prior to England’s advancing in the World Cup, though by the time we have a moment to even address the fact that it’s coming home, the joke will already have been murdered by the worst people on the face of the planet. You can commodify your dissent with a t-shirt from http://www.lilcomrade.com/, and if you’re a keen chef you can acquire kitchen-related goods from our socialist cookware sponsor, Vremi (https://vremi.com/). Nate (@inthesedeserts), who lives in a country founded by some particularly enthusiastic economic migrants, produced this with Adobe Audition, iZotope RX, and iZotope Ozone.

We were going to talk about migration today. It was going to be great. We were going to like have have some actual smart serious stuff to talk about. But now there's another thing going on, which is emergency, emergency, emergency. A lot, a lot of Trump supporters now believe that there is a mystery pub somewhere in London that has hooked up one of its ale taps to its urinal. And the fucking Lib bartender, who's me, has been pouring piss from this special keg to serve to Trump supporters. And the irony is you're pouring it for the hipsters as well, but they just know it's piss. And they're like, yeah, you know, it's really good. It was like peed out by like a mama, and it really improves the taste. It's a type of craft beer, right?

Yeah, of course. Absolutely. It's filtered through a human, and that's how you know it's really good. Craft beer is stored in the balls. And yeah. And so they got really mad at it. And they read Hendy, man. That's what it was. They read Hendy. And they've been, I think, like, trying to call the police about it. I want them to call the police. I want the police to have to take that phone call where they're like, so what you're saying is there's a pub where a man, just because he hates people of a certain political position, is hooked up a beer tap to a urinal, the physics of which make no sense whatsoever. That's like, that's like level one. It's like, how do they that badly understand how a urinal works and how a beer tap works?

Like there'd be no pressure. Like you'd have to have like an electric pump system. The flow would be, how do you know you'd have enough piss? Like the flow would be so inconsistent. Because also, like, how much people pierce is regulated by how much they drink. So until people have been drinking your piss, there's no piss to serve to people. Yeah, it's a real, it's a real Gordian knot. I'm just really sad that, like, you got rid of that tweet before, like, Prison Paul found it. Because if he had, like, signal boost to that, it would have been incredible. I don't think even Prison Paul is that dumb. I think that's a new level. I think Prison Paul would see through that. No, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's people, it's, it's all Americans too. It's

like, like, MAGA Kathleen was like, well, I don't think I'll be visiting Britain now. Yeah, I mean, let's face it. These aren't the kind of people who own maps. Hello. Welcome back to Trash Future, the podcast where you already know the fucking motto. Uh, I, I'm, I know, uh, I'm Riley. I'm in the Caliphate of Tower Hamlets. We have nobody in the fucking bowl today. No free, zero ball, zero ball. I don't know. I think that like, even when I hear his voice, I just think of like this. I just think of computer sounds now. It's very weird, like hearing him say like a full sentence without it just like breaking halfway through. I truly am the Stephen Hawking of this podcast. Let's all, let's all introduce ourselves,

shall we? And cut out all of this nonsense of the, of the permanent cast and crew. I'm Riley. You can find me on Twitter at Rala. My current username is Riley is obviously not a piss bartender. Please stop falling. Please stop. Please just leave. Just fucking stop. How long is this the title of his profile on LinkedIn? I mean, how long until like you end up being part of like a canon conspiracy? I've definitely already on, on a QAnon post somewhere. Is it QAnon? It's not canon. It's QAnon. Okay. Although QAnon is canon. It's not like the Quran.

What if all the insane mega conspiracy theorists like like, I have a new communicate from QAnon. Oh, hang on. There's a little dust on it. Let me rub it off. Quran. And that was the plan all along. Yeah. And that's Takia. Yes. Yeah, absolutely. Who are you? I am, oh shit. I've got to introduce myself. Don't know. Hi. My name is Hussain. I am the leader of the show. I'm also a deputy Caliph in the famous Caliphate of Tower Hamlets in London.

Who is the head Caliph? Is it Sadiq Khan? Is that? No, no, no, no. He's like, it's someone who's never been seen in the same place as Jordan Peterson at the same time. So he's so like hidden and dark that like, Michael Jordan. We're so hidden and dark, but like he's like the final member of the intellectual dark web, but his intellect is so powerful that his brain is too big to fit through any door. So he just like sits in a room. And the only person who knows the identity is Barry Weiss.

Our favorite German crew. Our favorite. So yeah, anyway, we definitely need to introduce our guests soon. So Milo make it snappy. It's me, Milo Edwards. I finally moved home from Russia. Fuck yeah. I can say whatever I want about Putin now. You didn't even look that good on that horse. Yeah. Fuck it. You can find me on Twitter at Milo underscore Edwards, where I also don't tend a bar that serves piss, but I figured you already knew that. Hi, I'm Zoe. Zoe God. Now I am the most long awaited guest on this show. Apart from Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi.

He said that he is coming on the show. He's just busy at the moment. He's running a startup and it's not going the way that he really wants it to go. That was a joke for the real heads. But you know, and his son, you know, his son just died. So he's up in the clouds with- Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, sunny. So he's up in the clouds with- Come on. That's an extremely good joke.

Wow. Zoe, what do you do? Isn't this the great most serious podcast you've been on the last 48 hours? Yeah. No, this is definitely up there. I'm on the top view. No, so I attempt to do research on refugee shit. No, I can't say that. I couldn't say that yesterday, but on this podcast, I can say- Oh yeah. On the nerd podcast, you couldn't- Yeah. No, you're encouraged to.

Great. Yeah. On a live podcast of human going. I went on a significantly more radical podcast than this yesterday. Kind of Christian. Radical. You went on the party, the podcast of a new radical centrist party I hear. No, it was just a website. It was not the one you're thinking of. It was the politics.co.uk podcast. It was not, it was not the Romaniacs podcast. No. No, that one's way too radical.

No, that, yeah. I like, they wouldn't even let me off because I'm like centrist ad to them. Because you're not part of the Looney Chines universe. Yeah. So I am trying to work towards completing a PhD one day on the civil society impact of refugee, not crisis, of refugees in general who are not a crisis, but we've created a crisis in Europe. That sounds to me. It's a really like snappy way of introducing myself, isn't it? No, I was saying that's, that is like, boom, you get in, you get in, you're like a brilliant cat burglar. You get in, you dawdle around for a little while, you make yourself a cup of tea.

You know, you pick some stuff up, you put it down, you leave your fingerprints everywhere. You wake, you wake up the people you're burgling, you have to use the bathroom. You're like, you're like the burglar who ended someone's home just to charge their phone. So he was going to burgle stuff and then he realized that his phone was on low battery. So he decided to charge his phone for a bit, fell asleep on the couch, and then the owners of the house like found him asleep. How can you fall asleep during a burglary? How low energy is your burglary game?

In the words of the famous prophet, post Malone, always tired. I imagine being at that, be a great character, like a narcoleptic burglar. He just wakes up in jail every time. Just say, well, one of the major problems actually with all these waves and waves of refugees coming into Europe is that most of them are the wet bandits from home alone. And they are going to be like, you know, stealing all of our picture frames and cutlery and stuff. Like they did in home alone, correct? Oh, hell yeah.

Like the EU's new policy is just putting out loads of marbles on the beaches. Like banana, banana peels. Hanging it, hanging a big iron from the top of the seagull in Berlin that just like swings down and hits them in the face. Of course, this is how we're going to protect ourselves from migrants who, as far as I'm concerned, because I'm a telegraph reader, look like Joe Pesci and Daniel Stern in Home Alone. Oh, hell yeah.

Anyway, those are the goof-em-ups. Time to get into something entirely different. Sorry, we're not letting in any of the refugees who look funny. What do you mean funny? Like funny how? What was it, Russian? I don't know. I was trying to go German, but I've been doing too many Russian accents, isn't it?

That's right. We're not letting in any of the refugees who look funny. It went back to Russian. It went, it just went. That was straight German. I will not have any critique of that. That was not German. You have a ways of making your lives a country.

East German, mate. East German. Okay. So you said the refugee non-crisis. Can you give us our listeners, again, many of whom are in America, a little background of what's happening and why it's not a fucking crisis? First question, why are so many of your listeners in America? I didn't know that.

I don't know. Georgia. Okay. You alienate the people closest to you. We speak very slowly. The British are still getting used to like podcasts in general. So they tend to really just listen to the Guardian, Romaniacs. That's such a nice use.

Like podcast has been a thing for a while here. I'm sorry. I think also like the weird Twitter space we inhabit is quite American. Yeah, that's also true. Most of the people we know on Twitter are American. Our London listener base is mostly just people we always had sex with. The American listeners are much more real. They cut that out.

Leave it. No, cut it. Leave it in. Put it like in the unedited version. Your desperation to cut it makes it seem like it's very true. That's a huge amount for TV. Yeah. I mean, it's not a crisis because, well, I mean, we've made it into a crisis by responding to it

like as stupidly as anyone possibly could. But I mean, okay, so this year, 42,000 arrivals have come to Europe. And this is a continent of 511 million people. It's one of the richest regions in the world. It's just like, I mean, on any reasonable scale, not a crisis. Yeah, but I guess it's frequently painted as a crisis by almost everybody with a platform. Well, yeah. And also, I mean, it's painted as a crisis by the likes of people who are supposedly doing

advocacy for refugees like UNHCR and so on will constantly be sharing these not exactly memes because memes suggest funny. But you know, it slaps through from boat. There are so many refugees in this thing. They had to leave their countries with only the shoes that looked like a fam. No, I mean, like, like, infographics. Yeah, like things saying like, yeah, every like three seconds somebody has to like leave their home or whatever.

And they like make it seem like this like massive big thing. But it's actually the proportion of people who are migrants or who have had to flee their home has not changed over the last like 100 years compared to the global population. So, yeah, it is constantly portrayed as a crisis because that legitimizes the fact that governments aren't doing anything else and they're just sort of shouting about foreigners and like it sells newspapers. But yeah, it's not really anything to worry about. We don't have any newspapers in the UK that constantly shouting about foreigners on their

front page. No, it's mostly it's mostly it's mostly just cancer and Love Island. Yeah, I love it. And people like, do you remember when people used to think the most offensive page in the sun was page three? It's by far the least offensive page in the sun. It's because she's from the front page. Only page three should be the new like campaign.

Yeah, actually. None of the rest of it should be like just like boobs because like everybody loves boobs. But who doesn't love who doesn't love boobs and then maybe what if one thing I noticed about about page page three girls in the sun is that they used to have like little speech bubbles beside them and they all say she loves computer science and she loves computer science and thinks that if you don't means test benefits, people get lazy. It would be like a first person like long form opinion from there. And the and obviously the joke was intended to be like ha ha because this gantic had women

obviously wouldn't have an intelligent opinion, but invariably it was the most intelligent opinion in the entire newspaper. So it's like, but she is have a more intelligent even if whoever this opinion is, it's more intelligent than anyone who writes the op-eds in this paper. It used to be like a comic strip in the sun where it was just like the whole time the guy and the woman were just in underwear, like the whole comic strip. They were just in underwear. Oh, yeah.

But they were like stock photos of like the guy going like clutching his temples and the woman like rubbing his back. It's incredible that these are the people who are able to foist this incredible con on the entirety of Europe. Yeah, we must be even less intelligent than them. Rupert Murdoch is like a sort of wacky racist villain. I imagine he has like a growling dog who does his bidding, but very grumbling. The hucking muttley.

Yeah, it's okay. And so one one because the the awful right wing press that exists throughout Europe, especially in Britain, basically just whips people up into a frenzy on the basis that like, you know, a guy with a tan just arrived in the country. The government response to this, especially recently, because there's been a recent change to EU level refugee policy, correct, has been awful. Well, okay. Yeah, it's not actually a change to policy.

It's what they've managed to agree is some talking points that sound really tough that actually like just rehashing of like old suggestions from policy. So one like the EU. I know, I know it's it's wild and it's new and they're going in a new direction, I guess. But no, yeah, they they they're not really changing policy here at all. They've they've just found a rhetorical way of like making it sound like they're doing something. What was the policy? What what has the policy been since this non crisis didn't begin?

Well, the policy for like, you know, decades has been to like just poor billions and billions of are, you know, hardworking taxpayers money into useless and demonstrably ineffective border control policies that kill people but don't really stop them coming. And that continues. And like, we're getting like, you get these like cycles of history repeating itself. So like back in like 90 late 90s, they were like all discussing these offshore processing idea like this genius idea that like, hey, you know what, we don't want refugees here. So we'll like build like detention centres in North Africa and just leave them there.

And back then, I thought you meant it was going to be like at sea. That was like a fucking amazing like Kevin Costner Waterworld refugee. No, like they're going to like repurpose like Guernsey for that or something. Oh, hell yeah. Fuck Guernsey. Set Love Island there. Yeah, you can be a tax exile, but you have to go and live in a refugee camp. Yeah, so but like, so Tony Blair's like original like big plan was these offshore processing centres in North Africa where like you could just either send people back to or

stop them there before they got here or whatever. But like at the time they discovered that it's, I mean, totally aside from any considerations of human dignity or human rights or like the international law or any like fluffy liberal stuff like that, like it's just totally impractical and it cannot be done and they're going to discover that again. But for the time being, they've managed to save Merkel's government by having, you know, a line that they can all agree was like, we're going to take action. We're going to lock people up in another country so they can't come here as Bullocks. I mean, it's not going to happen.

Yeah, it's like locking, locking people up in other countries went great for, you know, the Bush and Blair administrations throughout the early 2000s. I mean, we do like pay for people to be locked up in other countries. Like don't give me, I'm not being flippant about it. Like what's happening in Libya right now is like, I'm sure people will have heard like the horrific slavery that's going on there. That is like in part funded by us. How? Well, because we have made agreements with, well under Gaddafi, when Gaddafi was still around,

we paid him to build those detention centers where people are being held now. And now that whole thing happened. And we are now paying the, well, we actually, I think this is actually individually Italy that's only got this deal. It's not the whole EU this one. So we can feel good about that. But they're paying the Coast Guard to intercept boats and to bring them back to those detention centers at the moment. But like, so we are actually paying as Europeans for the detention people in other countries,

what we won't be able to do is to do that in a illegal way. Because there's like so many practical considerations for it. Like actually what you'd have to do is get like UNHCR or IOM to run those centers. And they won't run a center, I mean, bad as they are. And I have many criticisms to make of both organizations. They're not going to run a center that's like full on torturing people within it. So it's just not going to be achievable. So as long as it's just through illegal pushbacks and mechanisms like that, we can do it.

But like to actually stop the flow of people coming, not going to happen. It does seem like a really dumb idea to have an overseas like detention center for refugees, just in the sense that like the whole point of it from the beginning is like, okay, yeah, we don't really want to have these refugee centers in like Italy or whatever, because like we don't really like it like on our doorstep. So we'll just move it to Africa, where like, none of these countries have any skin in the game, like the refugees aren't going. It's like, why would they agree to this?

Just like, yeah, we don't really like having this big ugly refugee camp. Can we just put it in your country? Because like your country's kind of shit anyway, so it wouldn't really notice. I was going to say, basically like, you know, selling people into slavery is a proud European tradition at this point. We're not talking about like the white slaves, the famous white slaves who were the original slaves. Oh, of course, 4th of July.

Yeah, absolutely to keep the slaves. The 4th of July, where hey, I'll remind you, a bunch of immigrants invented the world's greatest country that definitely has never committed any like heinous human rights violations and has won every war it's ever taken part in. Where all men are created equal except the ones that aren't. Did you see that Fred Van Nick Fuentes did? Yeah, what he was like, we beat the North Vietnamese and it's like, bitch, no, you didn't. And like, he had a flag, the Confederate flag, where we beat you and it's like, uh, buddy.

How do I break this to you gently? So basically, their plan is we have something that we've done that's never worked. And in order to save Merkel's shambolic government, we're going to keep doing it. Well, we're going to say that we're going to do it stronger and better and more toughly and racistly than we've ever done it before. The problem is like, you know, like we do fly international law quite a lot, but like, you know, that there's kind of a limit to how brazenly like even our governments are willing to do it. So the problem, like I say, like we've been doing this for decades, like this, like

building up the borders, militarization, securitization of the borders, externalization of our border regimes and so on. And so like what the problem is that they're coming up against is that their rhetoric is going further and further, but they've reached like, they've come up against the limit of how far they can go basically in changing policy to make it more anti-refugee, because unless you're going to revisit and basically throw out the basic fundamental principle of territorial asylum, which we've had since the early fifties, then you just can't get much more brutal than we already are. So, you know, the baying right wing electorate is not going to get what it wants.

He's crying out to be disrupted by Elon Musk. Actually, that can push the boundaries of cruelty. That's why he's going to use like his fucking brick startup is, you know, you know, he said that like he wants to, he wants to make affordable bricks. Oh, that's the problem with housing. He's going to build a refugee prison in space. He's going to build, fuck's sake, he's going to build, we're going to build refugee camps on the moon, aren't they? Oh my Jesus Christ.

That'll be it. Instead of like the rich moving to the moon and like the earth being destroyed, like we'll just send all the, you know, that would make more sense because people will die doing that. I mean, like the whole idea of space exploration is kind of like, well, like you do know that, right? Yeah, yeah, of course. Space famously sucks. Yeah, big, mostly empty dick. Man, that's the official trash huge position. It is a vacuum and vacuums do suck.

I hate you sometimes. I'm going to replace you with a colorful fish. Space is the original self suck. Right. But who would win three trillion lions versus space? My money's on the line. My money's on the line. There's only one space, obviously. Space is coming home, it's coming home. We're so sorry, sorry.

Space is a fucking cuck. It's the stupidest key on the keyboard. Sorry. Big wide bitch. Big wide ass. It's the space key stick as hell. This is, this is so dumb. Amgo, how are you even getting that keyboard?

So I want to kind of transition actually a little bit into the ways in which we've invested in shamefully that we've invested in keeping our borders quote unquote safe, you know, safe from toddlers and families and people fleeing what happened to that plan of like getting like volunteers to guard the border? Oh, I don't know the angry pink men. Maybe that's what love island is. Like the winner gets to guard the border just to keep out the rest of the love island people. I don't know what happened to that listeners.

Refugee love island is only like two years away. Oh my God. Yeah, you're going to fuck your way to the British past. That's the thing. It's like there is a certain, there is a certain kind of liberal that basically does love the idea of a kind of purely meritocratic system of who gets to come into the country. We saw that with the French guy, right? You know, the French guy who scaled the building.

Oh, yeah. And then you got citizenship and like the way that people responded to that was like, That guy was big dick of his fuck. You know, any huge, huge energy, you know, and when you looked at like responses to that, whether they were like from liberal people or from like right wing people, you know, their thing was like, Oh, you know, he deserves to get the citizenship and stuff like that. Like they didn't really have that much of an issue with him like being given citizenship.

But there wasn't really any interrogation as to like why we're thinking the way that we're thinking and it kind of feeds into this like broader culture of like, you know, what does it mean to like earn citizenship and like how, you know, the fact that that's really fucked up. And so one of the things that I think we see quite often, and we've seen this actually even in light of the World Cup is the liberal response to all of the sort of conservative revanchism of we know we need a strong border. We need to keep them out, keep them out, build a prison in Algeria for them so we can make

another bane and and and and and and so they would definitely get British citizenship, I think. Oh, totally. Like he he earned it. You have merely adopted rescuing babies from balconies. I was born in it raised by it right is the and you see this. You see this in the in the discourse around the the the well now French guy who rescued that baby from the balcony and was awarded citizenship for his efforts.

You even see it in like sort of a lot of well intentioned articles about the World Cup team where it's like, oh yeah, actually conservatives if you love football so much, but yeah, you hate immigration and curious, right? Like this this is this discourse is rife. Yeah, it is. And it's actually like completely divorced from any idea of like, you know, human rights, which is what the basis of refugee law is. But like, I mean, if you if you want to like reward people who save babies with citizenship,

like anybody who was in a one of those like rickety boats in the Mediterranean with like kids in it has probably like saved them from drowning like 50 times across that journey, like they all deserve it. Of course they do. And I actually I have a mate who's just recently like doing the survey which like tests your attitude to like different kinds of benefit claimants vis-a-vis how like discuss only right wing you are and like shock shockingly like you'll be like amazed to know that like more right wing you are less you think people deserve benefits.

But like then it like breaks it down to like foreign sounding how long they've been in the country Muslim sounding names obviously like at least least popular. But then like people think that disabled people if they're British do deserve more benefits. But if you're disabled and have a foreign sounding name, especially in Muslim sounding name, then like you're like bottom of the pile. Like like people just don't think you deserve anything. So it's like this this entirely. I mean, how are you going to rescue a baby in that wheelchair?

Well, exactly. I mean, like it's just absolutely disgusting. And it's it but it like gives the lie to this idea that like, you know, all the people who like make these arguments are like, oh, we just don't want people to be drowning in the Mediterranean because that's really awful. And it's like actually, you know, you just hate you just hate. Yeah, these these people are just hateful. And oh, yes, the spectator the anti the anti drowning magazine of record

and the and and the liberal response to them is so pathetic because it's like, oh no, some of them get some of them become Steve Jobs. Yeah, some of them play football though. Some of them are useful to us. Yeah. And like if if your like brother gets sick or is disabled, like like he should also be like just chucked into the med right. Like because, you know, he's not going to be a net benefit to our like economy.

Like it's complete. Oh, shit. You know what this is? This is the I used to think that it was okay to beat up women. Then I had a daughter. Oh, yeah. This is this is the foreigner version of that. Oh, wait, fuck.

No, actually, maybe the spectator are like the the the fuck. The Samuel L. Jackson character from Unbreakable, and they're just trying to find out which of the immigrants have like latent superpowers. And like as the boat goes down in the Mediterranean, they're going to discover that they can actually turn their legs into a kind of propeller and spectator is Professor X is like tricky, right? Because you do want to like as an advocate for refugees, you do want to spread the stories like the positive story.

That's why everybody's always saying like stop with the negative messaging. We need to talk about the positive angle. So you want to talk about like, you know, loads of refugees are actually like, you know, incredibly inspiring, awesome people, right? Or migrants in general, like don't have to be necessarily fit the definition of a refugee. But like, so it's tricky because on the one hand, you're like, yeah, they're, you know, there are some really, really cool people who are refugees. So stop being a dick about them.

But then it's also like, well, maybe stop being a dick in general. Yeah. Would that be too much to ask? It's actually kind of another distinction I want to go into, which is we keep we which is this distinction that you have sort of constantly between a refugee and oh, just a migrant. Oh yeah. Yeah. Because being an economic migrant quote unquote is like, you know, illegitimate in some way,

even though. Yeah. Yeah, right. He got out of our country. Yeah. Fuck, I just realized shit. But you just realized that he's an immigrant. Yeah.

No, Riley sex trafficked himself here. We discussed this earlier in the part. No, I thought that he was like, I thought that he was escaping Dr. Peterson. And therefore classified as a immigrant. Do you know that Riley often has sex for literal slave wages? No, he's not a question for a genuine refugee. No, he's not. No, I'm a sex worker doing an unpaid internship.

Some of these economic migrants who come here. This is a really good point because I got this this week. I get it like every week in like my mentions, but it happened a lot this week. I tweeted something about you go about. No, it's not always about you go. Sometimes it's about death note. Sometimes it's about Gantz, which is really good. Just check it out.

Sometimes it's about the ontology of soups. Sometimes it's just plain old soup discourse. But no, it was about like, you know, guys who come off as like very well meaning. So they say that, oh, I'm not a Trump guy. I'm not a Faraj guy. But I do believe in strong borders and I believe in like, you know, distinguishing economic migrants from refugees and that's just, you know, means of like protection and a means of like stabilizing social democracy.

So what they say is that I love social democracy so much that I want to protect it at all costs. And that seems to be like that seems to be like the nice liberal position that seems like people like take a lot of comfort in now much more so than I guess they used to. A part of me sort of thinks that like this is shifting of like what, you know, I guess like the Overton window in terms of like what we can say and what we can't. But in public discourse anyway, but this has been like a talking point that I can remember so long as like the internet has existed, right? So it's only now that like it's being taken up quite openly by so supposedly socially

democratic politicians that we can see. But yeah, we, you know, that this is a big fucking problem and what should like the leftist response be? Well, I mean, like firstly, I mean, it speaks to this hagiography sort of of the like the good refugee sort of thing that we were mentioning, like, you know, this guy who saved a baby, therefore, you know, he deserves like, you know, the idea that being a refugee and having fled war means that you are some kind of like Gandhi figure who like doesn't care about material possessions. No, like you still want to like go to the place where you can make the

best life for yourself. And like, you know, frankly, it is true that like the first country that a lot of these people do come to is Lebanon or Jordan. And they decided that, like, you know, that's not a life for them. That's not a future for them. Why? Well, that's an economic decision, frankly. So the distinction between refugee and economic migrant, even in the case of quote unquote, genuine refugees is actually completely rubbish. Like, but we are all both, we live in a society where we need to earn money. Yeah. And therefore, whether or not you fled war or whatever, you still need to earn money.

And I think there's like some comfort that these guys take in like, you know, seeing this kind of myth, the mythological idea of like a genuine refugee, because it's like, well, eventually, I would care about that person. No, I'm not a bad person. They would eventually go back, right? So the thing is like, even if we yeah, and I think that's where it is, like when you say economic migrant, like, there is this kind of feeling of permanence. And I sort of like know, know what that is, because I come from a background where my family were considered to be economic migrants, right? You know, people who were kind of kicked out of East Africa, and they would be coming to

Britain to Cecil in Britain, right? And they had British passports, even while they were living in Uganda, but moving to Britain with the intention of like staying there because there was literally nowhere else. No one else would accept our brown soups. No one else would accept. No one else would accept, you know, the parents of leftist podcasters. I'm so sorry. It's a podcaster. Yeah. This is, this is like, this thing is not a job. What does that mean? But that community in particular is often used. I mean, like also with the Windrush people

have been used lately, but it's often used as like, oh, yeah, no, I'm not a racist because I can see how they've come along. Like, you know, they've integrated so well, they've been an economic success, you know, and that only happened afterwards. Like we've got a bunch of like newspaper for things, which if you read them now, we'll read exactly like pretty much the Basin sometimes they read word for word, what you will kind of read on like the mail online or even like the times of the spectator. Like these are things that are said, the Basin stuff, like, you know, they won't integrate properly. Their religion is like, you know,

uniquely antipathetical to ours. You know, they don't know how there was like one very funny one to think about now, which was about cooking and how like, you know, they use like exotic stuff when they cook. I didn't know when coffee was an exotic thing. It's just a suit. They were bringing such exotic spices as saalt. You know, everyone's into turmeric now, even the fascists are into turmeric. Yeah, but this, I mean, but this is like absolutely textbook, like always, always there's the good refugee and the bad refugee because you have to hide behind, you know,

no, no, no, I think that there is some or the good refugee or the good migrant and the bad migrant, I should say, like you always have to, the one coming now is always the bad one. And then somehow like, you know, after you've been here for X amount of time or it becomes X amount of unacceptable to discriminate against that group. You can give some benefit of the doubt to people who are like just, because there are two kinds of people here. There are people who are like making that distinction between good and bad migrants. And there are people who are just like making this like good migrants point in order to attempt to argue against right-wing people

who don't want any at all. And I can, I can sympathize with those people because what they're trying to do is win over people who aren't of our point of view by saying like, but look at how good a lot of these people are. And I can see like there's a good point to that because there are like, they are making like the idea that migrants are good people, accessible to people who don't understand the situation. But it's also like in contrast to the people who are saying, oh, they're all like, you know, villains and thieves and like, you know, Islamists and radicals or whatever. Exactly. Like if you're saying, no, actually they're not like they're fucking decent people, like anybody else. Only some of them are that. Only a few. Like there's only a few assholes,

like in any other community. Like lots of refugees are going to be dicks because lots of people are dicks. Yeah, yeah. But yeah. And then you've got to like defend the right for them to be dicks and also like live and, you know, not be tortures. Because part of living is being an asshole sometimes. I think that I genuinely believe, I genuinely believe in the right of someone to flee either, you know, climate catastrophe in Bangladesh or war in Syria, come over here, sit on the couch and be a fucking gamer. Love it. He's saying like something you were saying about like how liberals like cling to this idea of like you defend, you know, that the, what was it you said? Defending something against all obstacles and that's an excuse for defending hard borders or...

Oh yeah, yeah. I was assuming it was something dumb, like space up, which isn't dumb. It's pretty fuck space. Every time I see like a space movie, I just put my middle finger on it. I love that like people agree with me on this. Usually I say like fuck space and people are like what? But it's fascinating. I'm like, yeah, but like it's a waste of fucking money. That's what the title of the film Gravity should have been. Fuck space. Space is shit. This is the worst holiday I've ever been on. It was like, you were saying that like liberals sort of take that position, but actually like I see a lot of like people even on like, you know, the so-called hard left, like taking the position that like, okay, you know, if you want the welfare state,

then you have to have hard borders, which is complete rubbish as well. Just as much as... That's like, I don't know how much of like maybe Riley knows more about this because he hangs out with more hard leftist people in space, whereas I just, I just hang out with, um, body pillow. I just hang out with like the anime nerds. That's my demographic. You just sit around and have an anime body pillow with on Twitter, right? None of us actually interact with any of these people. Yeah, it's very weird. Like just meeting someone that you've only seen online and then you kind of think to yourself at the end, I really wish it stayed that way. Not with you. Not with you.

Pussain live sub-tweeting Zoe. I would never, I would never because I'm a gentleman. Hussain's talking about a difficult story with all of his male order brides. I'm a gentleman, so I only talk shit about like generally on Twitch. While I'm playing like a hard game of MSG. We play by those like old Oxford college rules on this podcast where you can only mention a woman if it's the Queen or the Virgin Mary and you can't talk about politics or religion. And if you don't say the Latin grace, right, you have to finish your drink.

But no, it's that thing of like people kind of, they try to make this point. You lose every time. Why do you think I learned so little? They try to make this point about, um, you know, protecting what we have, right? So I know what you mean about the argument saying that if we want like a strong social democracy or even like in some cases, like if you want like a truly socialist society, you need to have those sorts of controls. And it's an argument that I disagree with.

I'm sure like most of our listeners probably disagree with it, but it is a curious one. Just in the sense that like it shows like that degree of convergence, right? And I'm not sure like what the end goal is because even if there was even if, you know, there was like some decent politics behind that, it just kind of like gives ammunition to like people who win an idea. And this is the thing. This is an ideological battle. It's not one about economics.

So I don't understand like why, you know, them believing that like turning it into an economic argument is like going to work. Well, it's because they believe that like if you, that economics is somehow apolitical and that if you can make a point like, well, actually some migrants, uh, invent smartphones and get goals, um, then you can be like, oh, well, since you made an economic argument free of ideology, well, of course, I believe you now. How could I have been such a dumb conservative anyway? This has been the West Wing.

And this, I mean, but it's also like these, these are arguments that are used by like Lauren Southern and Paul Joseph Watson and stuff. Like you can see it in their tweets, which is like, the only reason why the left loves migration is because they love cheap labor. And liberals like sometimes give it to them as well. Like there was this tweet. I don't know. The right doesn't like cheap labor.

But there was like, there was someone who said, isn't it that we love being dominated by Islam? Like we're like all. Actually everyone on the left is a sub and, uh, you know, silk silky beds, um, scimitars, just like one regs. Really popping, like really popping streetwear shower. Comey's. Yeah.

This is the thing. We're trying to explain to someone cuts my hand off just as I come. Because I've stolen their heart. Oh my God. Okay, but this is this that take it is the imaginary thing is that it's somehow above economics and that's economics. This argument is above politics, that it's above these mere tribal hatreds and that if you present them with a better idea,

then they'll just discard their prejudice. Yeah. If you show them that actually, you know, like, yeah, who was the apple guy jobs was, was the son of a Syrian immigrant. Then suddenly they'll be like, Oh yeah. No, no, no, no, like the whole like ingrained racism of our entire society is like just, yeah, we're gone, but it is racism. And refugees could be a crypto currency.

And also it fucking helps that like you, when you have light skin, there's so many like successful people who are like, you know, you know, black women who are, you know, dark skin men. Sure, you actually have to point out that Steve Jobs had like Syrian parents because you look at him and you could say, okay, he potentially could just be a straight white guy. These people all fucking hate Steve Jobs. And that's, and that's also another thing too. It's like the idea that, okay, so you're going, and this is like, we're like,

we can get more billionaires, maybe let more refugees in, you know, but Jake, alienate the right and the left in one sentence. It's otherwise known as like the J.K. Rowling take. Right. Well, like he go back like years later and say they were gay. Just J.K. Rowling, J.K. Rowling fucking flies in on a broomstick and just points to refugees being like, you were black the whole time and you were gay the whole time.

This crisis intersectional AF now. I only read up to the third Harry Potter book, but like Buck Beak. Buck Beak was a thick boy, thick boy, thick as fuck. More like a fuck beak. Would you fuck the dragon from the full of Harry Potter book is the question. Bitch, you know the answer. You wouldn't get sucked off by the dragon from the full time. I told you, like from the space thing, I just want my dick obliterated.

Anyway, this is a. Listeners, do text in if you want to obliterate Riley's dick. We have such a good podcast guys. It's such a good show. This is all just to prove that Riley is a worthwhile immigrant to the spectator. Yeah, this is me. I'm performing for Rod Little, who we'll get into later. And so I think like it's that shows the nonsense of it.

The other sort of the inherent contradiction of that whole fucking toxic discourse. The other, and I think big contradiction is this idea that we can sort of magic away the border problems with technology. Yeah, that's a big one. That was it was kind of hilarious. I mean, like we around like the end of 2015, like the so-called crisis was like in full swing. And like we always me and my colleagues were always joking to each other, like, you know,

like we suddenly went mainstream, like I used to go to a party and people were like, oh, what are you doing? And everybody, oh, yeah, I work with refugees. And they were like, oh, yeah, okay, let's carry on like socializing. Like all of a sudden there was like this like day to day transition. I was like, oh, I work with refugees and everybody. Oh my God. So cool.

Like, you know what I thought is like, if you make this app, like you could just solve the whole thing. And I was like, yeah, cool. A blockchain link fence. Only enough like for refugees. Well, it was for coffee dates, you know, it was supposedly not dating, but it was to like get, you know, locals meet refugees, recognize that they have two eyes and like, you know, and I never believe that blood and oxygen through there. I never believe that till I actually see someone.

As soon as you see one, then like your whole world changes. But it's going to go the way of Tinder as well, because it's going to be like some people on there who aren't refugees and thereby I was like, just here for friends. Yeah, I mean, but then like, but the refugees don't need Tinder anyway, because as I was mentioning to you guys earlier in the pub, like, um, yeah, there's, there's, there are some of the volunteer groups that go along there and just, just have sex with people who are refugees. Like in a sort of like the, I mean, I'm sure they're genuinely attracted to the people they

sleep with, but they do sort of like, I've heard people talk about it. Like, yeah, it's kind of like, you know, upping their mood. Like, you know, they have a tough life, which is, you know, incredibly fucked up. So I can incredibly pick up our history as well. Yeah, if you want to get some good dig, like go to the refugee camps, you know. That's so fucking wild. No, no, it's, it's, it's absolutely horrific. And like, obviously, you know, most people who work with refugees would like, you know,

find that appalling. But, um, yeah, I suppose it wants to make you look thin. That's probably going to be the setting of like the reboot of keys to the VIP. Oh yes. That would be. It was just down in the refugee camp doing some pro bono work. Oh hell, I'm, I'm rock or safari. I'm here in college.

Okay, no, we have to stop this. It's going to go to a dark place. Yeah, it's going. I want to, I want to refocus a little bit. You were talking about some of the technological solutions that were being proposed. Again, I'm going to say the same joke I said earlier, blockchain link fence. Yeah. Well, like, I mean, obviously, like most of the people who, who work in refugee issues

do not know a huge amount about tech, I would definitely not claim to know a huge amount about tech, but, um, people who work in tech don't seem to realize that they don't know a huge amount about refugees. So like anything to be honest, the only thing you can know now is how to code. Humanity is only sorted into people who know how to code and people who don't know. Future refugees. Exactly. Right.

So you were telling me about a conference earlier that you were at. Yeah, I, I, they made the mistake of inviting me. They obviously like, like tried to get somebody more prestigious and like got passed down and eventually invited me to do the closing, uh, talk at this, uh, conference about tech and migration at Kings Colors London, like a year or so ago. I really hope none of those people listened to this because it'll be awkward. But I made it awkward because like, yeah, I was the closing speaker and I was like, everything you said is really dumb.

So you were, no, you were going to negging them. Like, yeah, no. I mean, like, if they were subs, like the rest of us lefties, then they'd have loved it. But, um, I did own them pretty badly. I, yeah. Well, because they had like one of the major suggestions that came out of that was like an app to be like, oh yeah, well these, um, genuine refugees, quote unquote, um, you know, who, who have difficulty proving where they've come from and what their journey has been.

Like if they like, at the point of like fleeing their homes, like log into our app and it will then track their journey and then they can just show that to the home office. I'm like, yeah, that's, that's, that's, I mean, like, you know, if, if like, you know, the political spectrum is a circle, not a spectrum, or like, you know, it's, it's so far into stupid that it might actually be like genius almost, but like not quite. It's so stupid for refugees. It's like the dumbest thing I've ever had in my life. I beat my best marathon time running from, running from ISIS.

It's, but it's, it's also got, it's, it's, it's a beautiful diamond of stupidity because I don't know which facet I want to talk about first. First, number one, like all of these technological solutions, because you can see it as well in the States when some absolute just calyphe brain level, like entire caliphate size brain suggesting lucky to be ever taken seriously, what we'll do is we're going to give every single a person in ice detention, a twenty three and me test mapping their whole genome, that's allowing us to reunite them with their parents. And it's like, you're just going to give ice everyone's entire genome, like what could go

wrong? Yeah, absolutely. Like it's not as though, you know, powers used by one administration ever get horrifyingly abused by another one. Meanwhile, in 2019, we had no idea ice were trying to create centaurs. Self congratulatory as well. Like it, like, like that, that conversation with this, one of the speakers that he was so proud of himself because he stood up and was like, you know, like, yeah, I, I was driven here in a taxi today. And like, I spoke to the taxi guy because, you know, he's obviously a man of the people and turns out that the guy, the, the driver of the taxi was a refugee from Congo. And he was like so pleased. He was like, oh,

yeah, I spoke to him. His name is Otis. And the truth is, he was just a really nice guy. And like exactly this whole thing was like, Oh my God, he was actually human. He made a joke, like crazy, you know? And then like, I was like, um, like, like super harsh, like really mean, but like he'd pissed me off with that. So I was like, okay, do you have a, just I specifically like singled him out and was like, yeah, great, great anecdote about like actually chatting with a refugee, like as if they were a normal person, really cool, right? Do you have a smartphone? Right. Do you know like that you have coltain in a smartphone? Do you know where that's mined in the democratic republic of Congo? And do you know what's fueling the civil war that

that guy fled? I'm bongo. The bitter corporate wars fall over the supply. World's only source. Exactly. Took the words out of my mouth. Right. Sorry, I'm not here to be smart. You're just here to represent Belarus. I just think we could all do like taking a step down from being like so self congratulatory about having had a conversation with the refugee. Like it's not that much. I like the idea that maybe that guy was just surprised that a guy from the Congo was a nice guy because he's had really bad experiences with people from the Congo. Oh yeah. That's definitely it. Like a guy from the Congo stealing his wallet from the Congo fucking his wife. And he's like, oh, come on. What kind of Tuesday is this?

And then a piano falls on him and there's a guy from the Congo with his hand over his mouth like holding the snap to run. That's what all these liberals who are shocked about actually having conversations with refugees are. They've just been cartoonishly and repeatedly fucked over by people from those countries that someone's bills on. Oh great. First the drinking fountain squirts me and now this boy. Oh man. And if that also even the root tracker thing, it's like, yeah, this will enable you to send people who are just dying of starvation back home. Yeah. No, exactly. Because that like, you know, it plays into the like, what is a genuine refugee? And like, I mean, we just don't have a system that adequately provides for even if you

did want to say like you could separate out truly economic migrants who would be absolutely fine, but decided that they love the weather here so much that that's why they want to come, right? And like from rain, baby. No, the only like the only people who are like that, you know, who they are, it's fucking me. Yeah. And you were like, I'm all about keeping that kind of person out. But please no, absolutely the same. This country needs to have, I'm just, I'm here polluting the beer supply for some people. You have no idea how much I've called the home office on you. And we just still haven't done anything, giving them your address. They are incompetent as well as being. Yeah, that's the thing. That's the thing. Like I keep saying that like his name is Riley

and they're like, Rocco. No, no, they don't say Rocco. They say you mean like irony podcasting. Like a rocky, rocky, something that sounds Muslim, right? Like Riley doesn't sound Muslim enough for them. That's probably the problem. Like Rakeem, Rakeem, Rakeem. Oh, my God, we could send some stormtroopers right now. What do you say so? I think I'll try that. I'll try that. I saw him drinking on bongo. Deporting Riley to own the lips. Oh hell yeah. That's my plan. How would deporting a socialist own the lips? I don't know. I haven't thought about far ahead. I just think it in the lips. Yeah, I think, yeah, there doesn't have to be logic behind owning the lips. If you say you're doing it

to own the lips, I think. I mean, how did dipping sushi and milk go? I don't know. I was pretty owned. I was pulled, Joseph Watson. Who else? Who else would it be? Who ate sushi dipped in milk in order to upset someone else? That would only have upset me if I was doing that. That's it. It would have upset my stomach. I tell you what. He's failed. Yeah. No, he did delight the left. Did you see the tweet he did this week about how like leftist hate football? Yes. Oh yeah. No, but then like, there's been quite a few takes like that of like people being like, yeah, yeah, all these people saying like they hate the England team like it's because they don't like work in class sports like like football has been that for a couple of people. I'm pulling that up

right now. There's a liberal who did the best one of these. Stephen Daisley. Stephen the danger Daisley. Oh yeah. He started with lads. I saw this one. So you've never said lads in your life lads. Go easy on Corbin East is hating the footy result. This is their first exposure to work in class culture. They're going to turn out one hell of a podcast when they all get round to watching Alphita Zane pet. Doesn't he have like opera lover in his profile description or is that one of the other people who retweeted it? Also like how? Why are we watching body movies from the 70s? Like in what way series, but in what way you're proving him right. You know nothing about Alphita Zane pet,

you know nothing about all of a twist. But in what way is it working class culture to have like a to live in a giant house, have a twirly mustache and then, you know, pop a huge boner and get crossed eyes when a cocky woman in a deer doll, Alphita Zane pet, whatever. I assume it's all like carry on is a TV series about class guys in the north who go to Germany for jobs because there are no jobs in the north. It's actually about it's not the carry on films. It's like it's first of all, it was made like 30 years after the carry on films. Second of all, it was a TV series. Third of all, it was not boardy. But it is kind of the person that is like I'll go to like, yeah, working people, working class people benefit from freedom of movement to think about

Alphita Zane pet. And it's like, yeah. And also in the last 30 years, many of them have traveled to other European countries, but in Spain. Yeah. And yeah, that's also edit the bit out where I get it wrong. No. One thing I want to I want to I want to highlight is that, you know, we used to talk about how the smartphone was the key to migration for a lot of people who were sort of fleeing these horrible situations. You know, I'm yeah, like a visa would be the real key. Yeah, of course. The smartphone lacking the visa. Sure. They are the solutions. Welcome. And that basically what think one thing that's happening in the EU now is almost the inverse of what you were describing about how we're going to have some, you know, like dip sheet on a hoverboard is going

to, you know, code an app to help, you know, refugees prove that they're only going to be murdered. They're not going to starve. And now almost the other inverse of that's happening where a lot of EU governments are actually taking like taking refugees phones from them. Oh, yeah. They're like, like taking away people's valuables. I mean, I mean, it's sort of play and then you get like people respond and being like, oh, yeah, but if they were really refugees, they wouldn't have phones. And it's like, they want them to just be a huddled mass. Yeah. No, no, no, but it really is that like, I mean, if you had to flee your home, or would you grab like your passport, your phone? Like, obviously those are like the two things you would

grab like anybody with a brain and like, you know, most refugees more or less over do a think piece like would the Nazis have let people post? It's also like, it's also like a really dumb thing because it kind of it exposes kind of it's really kind of in not intrinsic, but introverted British thinking where like phones are just as expensive over there as they are like here, especially like, and they kind of use this catchable like smartphone term. So when I was in Hungary back in 2015, when the refugee crisis started, I spent a couple of days like living in Coletti train station, largely because I forgot to book a hotel. It wasn't because like any smart move I got to Coletti train station and I called up my editor like two in the morning

being like, I kind of forgot something. I forgot to book a hotel and no one here can speak English. So I ended up having to sleep in Coletti train station. The pizza there was very good. I just want to play say that it's like fucking ace. Very, very good. But obviously everyone had smartphones, right? But they weren't like new smartphones. They were like pretty old ones. They had like, you know, old iPhones, old Samsung's. It was just the idea that like these are smartphones which have like map features and they have like photo like photo features helping you to find your way to new economic opportunities. It's like the narrative here where it's like, oh, if you're on benefits, why do you have a TV? And it's like, well, what?

Well, how am I supposed to watch love Island? He's supposed to do apart from watch Jeremy Carl's. And also it's like relatively speaking, then not that expensive, right? No, you can pick them up pretty cheap. Like in Syria, for example, like you could pick up phones from like Damascus market. Oh, wait, shit. This is really over just spectator article. Now like, how dare these, I'm like refugees come over with their smartphones. When our hardworking working-class women of Babe station have to share we have to look after our own first in this. It's that it's that, you know, you have to perform your suffering in order for, you know, the home counties to Dane to offer you a tuppence. But two, one of the things that's really alarming about this

is that actually EU countries are forensically searching the data on your phone to see if you are who you say you are and sort of tap, try to tackle like I say, like I was saying to try and make sure that the people we're rescuing are only going to be violently killed and not die otherwise. Yeah. I mean, and it also like, I would say like another thing that's really worrying about this is like the, the sort of brazen lack of concern for implementing policies that are directly exactly the same as what the Nazis did, which, you know, you can't say that, you can't say that because apparently the law is the Holocaust. If you like mention anything to do with what is it called the law, it's been suspended the law about like, how if you mentioned like the Godwin

Godwin's law, yeah, he suspended it because it is actually happening. So yeah, now we're not to the back. Yeah. Yeah. It works the other way where whenever you mention the Nazis, someone mentions Godwin's law. Yeah, that's pretty much it. No, but there's more, like there's more like in Denmark at the moment, like the policies that they're bringing in, like it's like this entirely like, I mean, it really is like they separated like out 25 areas that they're calling ghettos. I mean, like even as far as the language goes, like everything and they are talking about proposals to not only like force assimilation and they're using the word assimilation, not integration assimilation onto the children of people who live in those

areas, but also like proposals to have any crime committed that in that area could face double the penalty that the same crime committed elsewhere in the country would be like, we're talking about directly and without any shame in it, putting people in a different level before the law. And this is happening like throughout the continent and like in Hungary, where like organizations that help migrants or refugees have been like branded like literally like been dogged their front doors by government employees. Like so I think like what's worrying about like, yeah, the phone like the seizing of the valuables and so on is like because we're just going so far into a place where we should we should really, really know that this is not a good

thing. But like seemingly it's somehow justified because this time it's Muslims rather than Jews. And like how could that possibly like I just it's something that I really don't get. Well, why can no one just bring back like one of the more harmless zany Nazi policies like making everyone cook a one pot meal on a Sunday and having a small boy come around and inspect it? Like why is it always the really bad Nazi? Or how they tried to find the Holy Grail for a while? Oh, yeah, why can't we? Yeah, why can't someone get their face melted by two? I've only heard of the crap ones. Here's the thing. I'm going to go ahead and bring down the mood for a moment, which is Nazis one low enough. Yeah. Well, here it is, which is that one of the

reasons like it's no I think no sort of incredible historical crime or tragedy or thing going wrong in a big system even ever occurs the same way twice. You know, I think that's why after nine eleven setting up the TSA to suddenly scan everyone going into planes was incredibly stupid because the next bit the next kind of attack wasn't going to be from a plane, it was going to be from something different. And so when we see the when we're seeing as Oh, the rise of fascism. This is worryingly close to what the Nazis were. It's like it's not going to be what the Nazis were. I mean, like I don't think this when I'm saying as chances are whenever we look into the history when we look when the people the future look into the history

books, they won't see this as being the time before the bad stuff happened. They'll have seen the bad shit happening as of a couple of years ago. Yeah. So I when I when I like reference, like, you know, policies like that that I recognize is not because I'm like, Oh, yeah, and next thing we'll be putting them in gas chambers like no, that we are already, as I've mentioned previously, locking people up in Libyan like torture cells, we are paying for like the Sudanese government to have surveillance equipment and detention centers like this is already the bad thing is already happening. And actually, you know, the way we treat so-called undocumented migrants is, you know, their lives are entirely expendable. And we

like might as well be directly torturing and killing them ourselves. Like frankly, yeah. So so yeah, I'm not saying, Oh, we're leading up to doing what the Nazis did. Like we're doing our own like horrific version of inspired by like just comparably horrific. I don't know if like comparably is like fair because it's very different, but it's also, you know, we are just killing on a mass scales still. What's really going is it's going to be like the dumbest version of the Nazis ever like the fucking detention center in Texas where they've got the mural with a huge picture of Trump and a quote from the art of the deal. You got to make a good deal with America. You sneak in. It's a bad deal. It's a very bad deal. Okay. It's a very bad deal. You sneak in. Bad

embrace. You know, you could, you could, you could actually, you could have a much better deal. You could buy an American business and then you could sell the copper wire all throughout that thing, baby. That's a, that's your way in. You don't have to go into sneaking. Oh, no, but you can't stay in this detention center. No, that's free real estate. Okay. Make sure you kids get some of the best stakes. All right. Do you think like a lot of people on the left are sort of missing the danger marks or just like people like liberals generally are missing like, yeah, we're missing the danger because everything is just so stupid. Like we, we're, we're, we're approaching this. We're approaching this potentially very,

very dark period in our, in like Western history anyway. But it's also like mind and absolute stupidity, whether it's like stupidity from like the president or just stupidity in like culture. Right. And I don't know. I kind of, I kind of sometimes feel like a lot of us are so distracted with how dumb things are. Yeah. That like, we sort of miss these like big flash points, which have kind of caused this like big cultural change, right? Yeah. No, I think, yeah, there's, I mean, I don't know, because I always like, I'm a bit cautious about saying, oh, like now, suddenly we're like this and probably I just wasn't alive then, but people were always this dumb. But like, you know, like stuff like Danny Dyer saying cameras are twat and it's like, yeah,

that's, that's fucking hilarious. I'll share that because that is, but like, if we, you know, we're all sitting around laughing at that. And like, he actually was twat, like, like in real sense, like he actually like caused really, really bad things. Like, and that sort of gets lost in this sort of like fun discussion. But I don't know. I think there's like other things that people miss. Like we're talking about like how, you know, you have to perform your, your penury in order to get like sympathy and so on. But like, I think we're missing like this whole classist element of it. Like, I mean, this is a fundamentally, like being anti immigrant and anti refugee at the moment in Europe is fundamentally a classist position. Because

what you're talking about is like in Hungary, where they're talking about like zero refugees, zero immigration, maybe you can still. Same great taste. Zero refugees. Oh my god. Yeah, no, but like, so they're imposing this like 25% tax on any organization that says anything positive about refugees. But like, that is only being applied to non private enterprise so that the, the people who are advertising to sell visas for like extortion prices to like rich visitors are exempt from that tax. Or like, you know, you can buy citizenship in this country, you can buy citizenship in Malta, you can buy like, we're never like concerned about the rich refugees, like the, the, the Danish policy that I was talking about with the

ghettos. So called with like, you know, these are low income areas, nobody is taking away the kids of the wealthy refugees, be they Muslim or anything else, right? And saying that they need to be assimilated. Because the idea is that we have this like, basically international elite culture of rich people. And then, you know, it's entirely like about like, yeah, this idea of like, you can't be a value to our country if you are poor. And therefore, those are the people that will exclude. And unfortunately, even among people who are interested in class based analysis of politics in the UK, definitely, you still have this same argument going, you don't have people saying that we shouldn't have bankers coming to work in the city. We know nobody is making that.

I mean, we can say that, but like, you know, people who are supposedly on the, you know, even far left to like making like socialism in one country arguments and other crap like that. And yeah, you heard me, it's shit, guys. You know, then they're not talking about wealthy immigration, they're not talking about wealthy refugees. Like, I mean, because you can be a refugee, but if you can buy a visa, then, you know, the fact that you're technically a refugee doesn't matter because you don't have to go through the system. Like, so that was a downer. So I want to end, I want to end on on a reading from, from the spectator and our good friend, Rod Little, big boy, big boy. Rod, Rod Bigel, big boy little little Rod Little Dick energy.

So I'm just gonna, I'm going to dive in because this article is full of it. It starts out full of mania like a like the Peter String fellow one. It starts out full of mania and then it ends reactionary. I call him the littler. I mean, it's all reactionary. So he says, I'm just gonna, I'm gonna sort of editorialize, not editorialize. I'm going to pick my snippets. I have been scouring the internet, trying to find a right wing festival to take the family to the bathroom to pick my snippets. Make yourself comfortable. Have a whiskey. I have been scouring the internet, trying to find a right wing festival to take the family to this summer. Okay.

Not some sort of gathering where we won't be hectored about the refugees in the NHS by simpering millennials with falafel between their ears. It's like the sort of like the count, the Count, the Count, Dankula version of Glastonbury. Let's see. Festivals are about as environmentally hostile as it's possible to get. And he says, the chimera and good of good intentions infects much of the liberal left, or at least it's good intentions to show itself as morally superior. The body of a goat, the tail of a snake, the lion. You'll remember the shrieking from the left a few years back when the first wave of migrants set sail from the North African coast. These are people. That was not the first

wave. Like I am shrieking. I'm shrieking into the fucking void here. Like when the left were allulating before the first ever migrants came across to Europe. Of course. We were a few years ago. That's when that happened. That's, that's, that's, no, there's no multiculturalism having one of that. We were like, we were all white before. Like by the way, there was no multiculturalism in like a few years ago. Like the refugees just came and I miss the days when I was white. I can listen to like back whenever I wanted to judge me. Storms. He came over from Syria. I was going to say, I think Odele has to be the whitest thing anyone's ever said. These are people. We must do something liberals demanded insisting the rest of us were callous

bastards and they wanted patrols in the Mediterranean to scoop the refugees out of the water once their boats had capsized. Rod Liddle, definitely not a callous bastard. You heard it here first. Imagine like, you know, just being so kind of, you know, disgusting liberal that you don't want people to drown in the sea or the ocean. But you know what? Like again, like he's acting like this is something brand new. It's been the law of the sea since, well, I don't know how long the law of the sea are. No, it is a thing. No, no, no, no. Yeah. Since for as long as there's been a law of the sea that like if you encounter a vessel in distress, you have to help them. This is not something that like, like, you know, sensitive lives came up with two years ago. Like when

the first refugees came and then they just said, oh my God, you should rescue people if they're drowning. Like this is not a new concept. It was actually really controversial. When, when the British Navy sank the Bismarck, they started rescuing the drowning German sailors, but they had to leave a lot of them because German U-boats started attacking their ships. And it was genuinely controversial, even though they were actually under attack, that they still didn't rescue the rest of the German sailors. That's the real problem is, is the refugee U-boats that are sinking. So literally, we have a more liberal attitude towards actual Nazi soldiers than towards refugees. Do you want to hear Rod Little do some maths?

It seemed plain to me and many others that if we did this, many more people would be encouraged to come and many more of them would die attempting to achieve landfall. And that is exactly what happened of achieving landfall. Did this come out this week? It came out. Yeah. 16th of June, 2019. When she was taking me to a right wing festival, just as you achieve landfall, like with the drop in arrivals that we've seen over the past couple of years since the peak of it in 2015, we've seen rising death toll. So, I mean, this is just, I mean, aside from the fact that it is callous pastodary, it's also just demonstrably just false. Yeah. What he says, in the first six months of 2017, some 2000 migrants died. And again, it's as though

like only 500 of which are in my basement at the time. Yeah. And it's as though he's saying, clearly the boats didn't save any of them. And so it's better that more would have died somehow because I am Rod Little and I'm brilliant at math. Yeah. He is wonderful. And so he's basically saying liberals are actually being cruel to migrants because we're not showing them tough love. Yeah. Of course, cruel to be kind. You know, you let you let you let some of them drown and then the others will learn, right? Exactly. Of course. You know, like, I mean, yeah, you let the first one drown. Like if you want to eat his vegetables, you let him starve to death. And I'm telling you that the next few kids will then eat their vegetables like

the youngest CDL. This one's wounds heaving open from scurvy. That'll be in that down broccoli. And this and this is the and so little little continues there. These are just some of the reasons he's talking about the refusal of the Aquarius Aquarius. Oh, yeah. And they wouldn't let the Aquarius stock. Yeah. Why? Italy's new populist government, which I think is going to provide us all with a lot of entertainment over the next few years, refused to let in the latest batch. I mean, to be fair, I mean, and also the threshold for an entertaining Italian government is incredibly high. That's true. And a president for 15 years who had to have had open sex parties. Right. And it's this shows like that there is this kind of right-wing London journalist

who is just you. He clearly wakes up and convinces himself not to commit suicide every morning. Yeah. But I mean, what I would say, and like, you know, this is like an incredibly unoriginal article, apart from all its other flaws. Like we've read this a million times. Like you've all written this. Like do you like also like, it's just a circle jerk of like a certain kind of right-wing journalist who like they take it in turns to write this article. But not one of them actually suggests, you know, a credible solution to the issue of, you know, people fleeing war and attempting to come here for safety, right? So they're all like, oh, yeah, don't do this, don't do this. But like, like firstly, yes, yes, we should do that because that is saving people's

lives. And secondly, like they don't have an answer. It's just a fucking moan. It's just a sad little wine. And I saw a tweet of this the other day, and I have to like repeat it. I wish I could give credit to whoever did it. But like, you know, the thing that like we've missed out in the history books is how fucking whiny these like horrible, like fascist shits are. Like they're just moaning and you've got nothing to suggest. The whole that he wants a right-wing festival. So he's going to be free from like, you know, criticism. It's like the whole this is this. This is just right when right wing columnists are forever snitching on themselves for sort of the just incredible guilty conscience. They must carry on a daily basis. That's why I say this is a guy who

pulls his head out of the oven every morning and is like not today. I'm going to live through this one and then he has to like prop himself call me callus. I moisturize every day. It's really you who want to save lives who are killing people. Yeah, it's just they're so fucking pathetic. It really is. What little niece go and queer I know Rod little come on our show. I mean, we are like leftist queer I in some ways in the sense that in the sense that we're all filthy in our tracksuit. I'm the only one who's wearing a tracksuit. But you guys are all wearing like long trousers in this weather. She knows it's because she's because showing legs in the caliphate is her arm. Right. Yeah. So I want to just finish off with one small observation with one with one

two minute or don't worry who's saying Teresa may rebuked Donald Trump recently saying separating families is not something we do. What do you say to her? Yes, it is. Fuck you, bitch. We do that all the time to resume much like space. So I'm happy to end on that. Zoe, thank you very much for coming to the caliphate today. Thank you. I wonder if I'll make it out in my skirt. No, we've got like we've got like the supreme branded burqa. So we'll just put you in that escort you to the to close out. Thank you, Zoe. Thank you to Jin sang for our theme song. Here we go. You can find it on spotify. You can find us on spotify and you should all buy Vremmi products. Vremmi products. Buy Vremmi. Buy Vremmi. Commodify your descent with a teacher

from Lil Comrade, but also buy Vremmi products. We're going to do a lot more Vremmi content in the future. Whenever I remember it, start when you putting this out, protest Trump on the 13th. Oh, yes. Come to the demo. It's going to be huge. Trump on the 13th. We might be walking around with a zoom mic actually. So we might be doing a live show from the Trump protest. If you're a fan of the show and you want to like, you know, make your voice heard at the Trump protest, we're just going to be walking around. I'm probably going to be pretty drunk. We'll be asking you questions like, what is soup really? If Hussein says coffee is a soup, you're going to get to see me sacked at him.

I'm cutting off the show now. Goodbye, everybody.