TRASHFUTURE - Only Fans and Horses ft. Carta Monir

Episode Date: September 1, 2021

We spoke with OnlyFans creator Carta Monir (@CartaMonir) about the platform's decision (and subsequent reversal) regarding explicit content, and the American Evangelical Right's "not so long" march through the institutions of culture. But first, a startup! If you want access to our Patreon bonus episodes, early releases of free episodes, and powerful Discord server, sign up here: https://www.patreon.com/trashfuture If you’re in the UK and want to help Afghan refugees and internally displaced people, consider donating to Afghanaid: https://www.afghanaid.org.uk/ *TF LIVE SHOW ALERT* We have a live show in London on September 1! Patrons have a discount so check the posts if you are a subscriber! https://www.trashfuture.co.uk/event-details/trashfuture-live-at-vauxhall-comedy-club-1-9-21 *WEB DESIGN ALERT* Tom Allen is a friend of the show (and the designer behind our website). If you need web design help, reach out to him here:  https://www.tomallen.media/ Trashfuture are: Riley (@raaleh), Milo (@Milo_Edwards), Hussein (@HKesvani), Nate (@inthesedeserts), and Alice (@AliceAvizandum)

Hello, it's me, Milo, and as you're hearing my voice, but it's not me going, IT'S THE FREE ONE! You may be able to tell that there's an announcement that needs to be made. In the episode, we say that there are still tickets available for our live show, which in the episode we say is tomorrow, but the release date of the episode has been delayed. So, it is now going to be Wednesday when this episode comes out, so the live show is tonight. And when you're hearing this, there may or may not be some tickets available, but there'll be a link in the description if you want to go and check.

If you can't be bothered finding the link, it's trashshowshow.co.uk slash events. The live show is at 8pm, Doors at 7.30, it's in Vauxhall in London at the Comedy Club. So, if you want to check that out, come along. If not, I guess keep listening to us with your with the ears. Goodbye. So, I have a theory, I think, that a lot of British politicians like that the partridge-ness is not limited to Starmer. I think if you add the word Linn to the end of a lot of stuff that different British politicians say, it will become very partridge.

Okay. I'll give you an example. This is Dominic Robb defending himself for like not being on holiday, while like the Kabul evacuation was going on. Do you want me to just read this? Okay, I'm going to read. Okay, yes, you read it and then say Linn at the end. All right, it's right here.

He told Sky News, the stuff about me being lounging around on the beach all day is just nonsense. The stuff about me paddleboarding nonsense. The sea was actually closed. It was a red notice, Linn. Don't make me tell you again. It's so, I mean, look, number one, right? Like he was reading Bill Browner's book Red Notice while paddleboarding.

Let's go. What like the events in Afghanistan, I don't think would have been helped by Dominic Robb doing adult karate. But on the other hand, right? The sea was closed is a great part for Linn. See, he's closed. I think you could have taken on the Taliban using like Carter. Yeah, yeah.

He's got his, he's got his. He's always closed in Afghanistan. The Taliban have never paddleboarded and it shows. Yeah, that's right. I mean, look, you might as well admit that he is, what would he have done differently if he was in the UK? Like, but karate chopped a phone? Like the impotence of the British state is just sort of relentlessly on show here,

but no more than in our ministers insistence on insisting they did nothing wrong, even though they impotently failed. That's a little theme for trash future season, whatever this season is, is Britain is a fake country. It's a joke country and it's not real. Britain cannot hurt you. Well, actually very much can, but it's still not real. Nothing here matters.

Your mind makes it real. There it is. There it is. You know what? I'm declaring it right now. We've wanted to do this for a bit. Season four. We're in it now.

This is season for country. It has been for some time season for the podcast is in your mind. Hello and welcome to what has turned into the first episode of TF season for hello. It is feeling for it is myself. Riley here with Milo Hussein and Alice. Hello and you're listening to this free episode of TF Milo. Do the free one every time you're listening to Riley and the free one.

You sure are. It's in your mind. We have a guest this episode who will be joining us in the latter half. It is OnlyFans creator Karsemonir who was going to talk to us about creating on the platform what the sort of recent rule changes and then rule change changes mean for creators actually working on it and why the platform economy is a problem. It's the sex work segments. Yeah.

And crucially, we'll be talking about posting whole. You know, this is yet one of what yet one another of those callbacks to the second segment in the first segment. We warn you about at the beginning of the second segment. So skip to the second segment now to hear that morning. Turn over your cassette to side B. Yeah. That's right.

And those of you listening to trashy Trump can say mailed out. Well, boomer listeners. Welcome to TF the podcast that's hard to listen to. That's right. I think it's kind of cool. It could be like an old school Netflix thing where they would send you a DVD. Insert disc two into your Sony PSP. No, we would send them a vinyl.

Yeah. You've got to do you've got you've got the data disc and the play disc with every season of trashes. You've got to make sure you put in the data disc first to install. Yeah. Or the TF vinyl subscriptions happen. I think much should happen. That could be a good thing.

So I want to send out some little wax cylinders. I'm pretty sure. So I want to I want to talk about a few things. Right. Well, that is typically how a podcast works. Isn't it? Yeah. Yeah.

Do you know that unlike the the winter of discontent in the late 70s, we actually are living through a set of overlapping crises involving national shortages of crucial goods such as Greg's. No shortage of Greg's. Supermarket items, beer, building materials. You'll never be builders, Valhalla. No. Oh, fuck.

I went to I went to Tesco this morning out of bottled water, which is probably a good sign. Fuck. We're in builders Hades, right? It's a building tantalist situation. There's all of this cash in hand lucrative work available. And the tax man doesn't have enough time to check up on them, but there's no materials with which to work. Every time they get towards the cash in hand job, it recedes from them.

You can't spell narcissus without CSCS. So what's happened is stock levels have slid to an under supply of 21 percent, the lowest since records began in 83. Oh, wow. Yeah. This is important, right? So there are a couple of things. It's largely tied up with the low wages being paid to workers,

meaning that insufficient workers are working because no one wants to pay them anything. And the government is very, very, very keen that no one actually raise wages. And but also like the reason I bring up the winter of discontent, right? Is that the winter of discontent was largely a fiction, right? It basically did not. It it was a story that was loved it. Actually, everyone was happy then. It was essentially, it was ginned up in the newspapers, right?

Yeah. It was a couple of like localized strikes here and there, that the Daily Mail and the Sun and whoever else turned into the dead lie unburied in the streets. And meanwhile. Going for the Islamic vote there, the Daily Mail. We seem to have, we seem to be like, yeah, getting record shortages of the only reason to give like,

like the main thing, right? And we've talked about this before, right? The main thing that you get sold on for participating in this economy, other than the fact that you have to, when you go to jail, if you don't, see that that or unabomber is that is that. Shout out to that guy. It's the treats. Yeah, that's right.

But we have the lowest amount of treats that there have ever been since we started counting how many treats there are. I think probably we shouldn't have like promised everybody that they would always get their treats on time forever. Yeah. And I think also we probably shouldn't have made a supply chain that requires the treats to only be manufactured and then delivered at the last possible second and never stored.

So it's very inelastic. And I think maybe also we shouldn't have created a system where you get 50 kinds of the one treat instead of perhaps maybe even just a couple. And the thing is, right? If you, if you compare actual stock levels to the executive pay in the companies that don't have any stock, they're still going massively up. Yeah. But they're not raising wages.

Yeah. Rages still aren't going up. And in fact, what companies have now done is they're now trying to pressure the government to do prison work release programs rather than raise wages to hire people. Absolutely phenomenal. We're looking at some kind of like desperation solutions because of like the twin shocks of Brexit and COVID basically.

Not to get too remain here, but like it turns out that when you predicate your entire supply chain on having a bunch of like foreign HGV drivers, because you're not going to ship anything by rail. And then you also stop them from coming into the country. It makes it very difficult for the stuff to get from A to B. But equally right. If your whole, if your whole treat economy was based on a kind of, you know, lump and proletariat of Eastern European workers sort of barely scraping

by on zero hours contracts, maybe now is not the time to gloat about it. No, no. Yeah. I'm not talking to you. I'm talking about Remainers who you're talking about the people who are like, perhaps we mightn't have had a tasty little treat of no Brexit. God, I fucking hate those people. I love how like the British, the British political aspect has just become

just like shitting ourselves repeatedly. And then when things are bad as a result, just being like, well, that's how it is. Well, we're going to sit in our own shit because we can't take off our own shitted pants and trousers because that would be laying the Germans wing. And then there's another guy sitting across the, across the room going, yeah, just push it back in. Easy.

How it tracks the shit. And at the same time. You can do it with your mind. At the same time, there is, because I think we very rarely does the sort of shortages in, in when it's talked about in media, it gets talked about in the sense of like, this is largely not tied up with, we're not making enough brags or building materials or whatever. It's really like unserious and jocular. Like I feel a little bit like I'm being gaslighted, right?

Because like the big, the big thing in Glasgow most recently was that, well, first of all, we had to close like a bunch of Nandos because they couldn't get any chicken, which was interesting. Then we couldn't get any beer because no one could carbonate. No one could do the leaves until we get chicken. But then there was, there was a milk shortage, like an honest to God shortage of milk. And the ghost of Thatcher rising from the grave. But the way this was written up on BBC News was as a milkshake shortage.

Like McDonald's couldn't operate their milkshake machines. But the reason why they couldn't operate them because there was no milk, which seems like a, a sort of a larger problem than not being able to get your sort of like dessert treat. Fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck. Alice, this is vital importance. Have you seen the ITV News report from Scotland about the milkshakes? No. What?

Holy fucking, if we can find this and cut in the audio, it's absolutely phenomenal. Someone posted it on Twitter and basically it's ITV News completely straight-faced. You don't expect to happen. Two strawberry milkshakes, please. No milkshakes? No, no milkshakes. We saw how the McDonald's milkshake shortage was affecting others. Did you find it?

What are you going to do now? It's probably good. The ice cream shop are on the corner. Probably go get a milkshake in the ice cream shop. Just got to try and figure it out all by yourself. Yes. Yeah, yeah. It's a shame.

So I actually tried to order a milkshake because I always give milkshakes not come to McDonald's and there's a shortage. How did you? Just a lot. It's been a rough week for that guy. First Afghanistan, now this. I think it goes back to what we were saying as the emerging theme of season four. This is the opening stanzas of what is going to be a national catastrophe of shortages.

The lady of Batsilat. Because our infrastructure for distributing the stuff is all failed. Oh, it's going to get a lot worse because there's no capacity for surge here. And apart from that, we're also facing the other thing, which is one of the reasons why people are not able to work in warehouses or work delivering is because either they've been told to self-isolate because of COVID or because they've got COVID. And that's not something to like, a lot of stuff sort of writes this off as like, oh, you'd like minor COVID cases.

That can still be pretty devastating, even long term. But the other thing is we're heading for a sort of end of September-ish huge, huge surge of COVID again as everything opens up again, which is maybe a price of worth paying. I'm not sure. I'm not like a public health person. But combined with this, it would put down the marker now. It's going to get a lot worse.

Yeah. Well, I think even if it doesn't sort of get, because I think there's, I tend to be a sort of open up person. But regardless, I think that- You've been to one rave and now you're an optimist again. Yep, that's right. Riley isn't just an open and friendly guy. No, but I think- Yeah, he wants to write for someone to shit in his mouth during-

No, I absolutely do not want that. Do not do that. I do not shit in my mouth. No, I've always known as the trooper kind of experience. All the experience you get clappin' in furnace. Oh, God damn it. Yeah. You exist in furnace.

You exist to frustrate me. Exist to frustrate me. Burkine is what you want to have. That's okay. Number one, we're going to talk about this later. But I want to talk about what you said. Burkine urinals is like, the standard of a bus in here is outrageous.

You've never been in. I was, what you were saying earlier about it being a fake country is that there are these, the problems, I think, with shortages and with specifically labor shortages, and which was a problem of low pay. It means that like every, we are suffering as producers, as we have been for a long time on like chronically low wages versus productivity. But now people are suffering as consumers. And no one seems to want to actually put these two things together

and take this problem seriously because it's the same problem. And it's been happening in the US for longer too. And the thing is I don't want to try and, I don't want to seem as if I'm pontificating too much because I think we're living through something. And I'm going to be living through something. Not a lot of people really understand what's going on. And I think there's going to be like some really deep repercussions for this in the long term

in ways that we don't really fully grasp yet. Yeah, there were deep repercussions for the winter of discontent and that was largely imaginary. Yeah, no, I think this is going to be quietly. I think this is going to be much more important. And I think we're going to look back. And what seems now to be quite funny in terms of milkshake shortages is going to seem like positively obscene.

And I don't mean to suggest that it's going to turn into threads up here. I don't think that's necessarily on the card. But I think this is kind of like this long, slow grinding thing. There's something in the machine that's not working the way it should be. And I think we're still waiting for that to feed all the way back. Yeah, I think that's absolutely right. And it seems as though there is nobody who wants to take this seriously. Again, I've looked at what Labour has said about this.

Seema Malhotra, their shadow minister for business and consumers has said, quote, the chaos-hitting supply chains is of the conservatives making their failure to keep their promise to cut red tape for businesses has created a perfect start. We're like, all they're trying to do now is cut more red tape by getting more people to get HGV licenses or transporting more shit in vans. So you don't have to have HGV licenses. Anyone who's played American Truck Simulator is now a qualified lorry driver.

We need to get me Tom Walker. And the other thing that fascinates me, the other plan here, the real contingency is we're going to use the military. We're going to use military HGV drivers to deliver staple foods to supermarkets. And that's really interesting to me. At the time that we're seeing the withdrawal from Afghanistan, we're seeing any number of people in the Ministry of Defense, the Commons Foreign Affairs Select Committee talking about how

the role of the British military should be to have a strategic airlift capability from Afghanistan by itself, which is never going to happen. Meanwhile, unbeknownst to anybody else, this whole thing of various factors that are leading into serious, serious needs for a military aid to the civil power type situation, just intensifying in the background. And I think there is a potentially very clever case to be made here for a British military that looks a lot more like the fucking technicious Hilfewerk or whatever than it looks,

than it is for something that is very invading Afghanistan. I am very excited for the next Call of Duty game to feature Captain Price and soap delivering, making Tesco deliveries. If we're talking about, if we're talking about, though, deploying the military in order to, for example, state an infrastructure build, let's look at what happened at the last time that happened somewhere else and how well they treated everyone who they thought might have been threatening them or getting in their way.

And those are our chicken. This is also a very funny quirk that liberals have, which is anytime that the military is asked to do this kind of civil power stuff, whether that's like, you know, flood defences or like natural disaster rescue. Covering for the fire brigade. Yeah, exactly. They're always like, ah, finally, military logistics, military precision. They're going to be so good at this.

And you met the fucking military. Exactly. It's like, yeah, have you seen the logistics that the military does for itself? Yeah, but like I said, like I'm not really looking forward to, depending on a guy whose main training is involved with, I don't know, the suppression of people that you think are threatening you to suddenly be mostly doing stuff here, because the military is a tool for doing something like that.

Yeah. Well, to be fair, I mean, it does depend on which bit of the military. Lots of bits of the military are concerned with helping the bits of the military to do that. If you get the guys from like the Royal Veterinary Corps, they're not very hard nuts. You know what I mean? Yeah, I'm less worried about that. I'm sort of, I'm more worried about more and more of the sort of like the role of the economy

being taken up by, you know, the vaccine rollout being done by like army medics or like your Tesco delivery coming from like the Royal Logistic Corps. But at the same time, all of these organizations also being pressured to still do the like, the war stuff that we're never going to fucking use them for. Yeah, I'm getting your predator drone delivering your delivery. Yeah, that would be very funny. Like just like, you know, you're like basic military training and you're having to, like you're in the Marines, you're doing like a fucking 30 mile speed march

while carrying eight Tesco bags. Like that's not part of the green gray test. Before we talk to Carter, I want to do a little startup though. Oh, okay. Startup is called Pacasso. PA. I hate it already. I'm so mad.

SO. Who's saying Pacasso? I'll give you a hint. Nothing to do with art. I assumed it was nothing to do with art. Yeah, correct. I'm assuming it's some sort of like, I mean, the PAC is probably like the key. So it's some sort of like gig economy service where you'd like hire someone to pack your

supermarket shopping for you. No, Alice. You take a photo of your suitcase open and you take a photo of all of the shit that you want to put in your suitcase for your holiday and it tetruses all of the shit into the suitcase for you so you know how to arrange it. That's fucking good. Alice, you should be a startup guy. Alice, sorry, that's too good of an idea.

Copyright, copyright, copyright. Functional. Yeah. No copyright. Can't do it. Patent pending. Is it like supermarket packaging? Like no, no, no, you're reinterpreting it wrong.

Think Casso rather than the P.S. Think of the lot. Think of the house. Yes, it's a house thing. Oh no. The modern way to buy and own a blank and the answer is not house. A dog? Artwork.

It's not your main house. Oh fuck, it's a holiday house. Is it a timeshare? Have they reinvented the timeshare? They insist that they haven't. Yes. Now we're talking. Yes, now we're fucking cooking boys.

Come on, we have reinvented something which is famously a scam. This is not pyramid selling. Let me hear that for you again. It is not pyramid selling. The rare jubilant Milo there. That's so good. Have they rebranded the timeshare into like something like a cooperative or like a partnership? What is a pyramid scheme?

Yes, who's saying that's what they do. It is now an LLC. Oh, you're all getting too good at this. LLC cool, Jay. This is a quote from the founder, Austin Allison. We realized that owning a second home has been a very impactful luxury in both our lives. We're both fortunate enough to have second homes. It made a huge difference to us and our friends and family.

Cool, give them to someone else. What we set out to do was to try to and then check out these next few words, democratize access to second home ownership. What do these people think democratize means? When the more of thing. Yeah, democratize is one more. So that it can be something that is not just a luxury. So that it can be something that is not just a luxury available to the 1%,

but hopefully it can be available to many tens of millions of people around the world. For example, I looked at the they will sell an eighth of a house for $660,000. I don't know anyone outside like the 1% or an eighth of a house. What the fuck? If I'm spending $660,000, I expect to be able to not buy an entire fucking holiday house. No, you get an eighth of it. Is it a really nice house?

Do I get like an eighth of a like a chateau? I'm sorry. You can buy a house in Spain for like fucking like 150 grand. Yeah. Like where the fuck are these holiday homes? Napa, Napa. Oh, right. Okay, I see.

Second homes like a burn down in two years time. Awesome. But you're only an eighth responsible. Second homes in rich people's lives. A second home gives you that place to spend time with people you care about, which you couldn't do if you didn't own the place you were in. Yeah, obviously. Yeah.

And that trail you ride the mountain bike on again. So we just want to ride one trail forever. Like you why do you why can't you just get a fucking hotel? Jesus, I hate these people. Um, before selling Picasso, Allison started his entrepreneurial journey, selling bird houses when he was five, became a landscaper as a teenager. He was already a decade at five. Check this out.

Check this out. Started selling real estate at age 18, and always wore a full suit and tie to college. Oh, okay. Yes. So I bullied this guy at university. I understand one of these guys. So he says why we're here.

You bullied him into being too successful is the thing. This is the trouble. I built character in this guy and I shouldn't have done. You shoved this guy into a locker and while he was in the locker, he thought wouldn't it be good if you made this into a timeshare? Those famous Cambridge lockers. Shoved him into a pigeonhole. There was a guy in my, yeah, that's right.

There was a guy in my closet. Actually that the porters once hung a noose in my pigeonhole because I pissed off one of the infamously really, really nasty fellows of college. And I just came, I walked back literally like less than 20 minutes later. I walked back through the porters lodge and they'd hung a fucking noose in my pigeonhole. Like a really small noose. Yeah, like, yeah, not a full-sized one.

Like a little shoelace noose. Yeah, exactly. A stew at little is not feeling so good. Incredibly normal behavior. But yeah, there was a guy in my, in my business school lectures who was like, the Cambridge business school and the course I was on, 80% guys like me who were like, this is a scam. We're here to scam.

And then 20% the most powerful nerds you've ever met in your life who were like, I want to get four jobs at JP Morgan actually. And he was one of those guys. And he was like always like holding up his hand to like, oh, oh, the teacher, oh, pick me. And then one time we organized like a big night out with like assuming that just people who are our friends are going to come. But we invited technically everyone on the course. And this guy just showed up, but like none of the other nerds came.

And when he arrived at this like restaurant that we were at, we all, we all got on the floor and bowed down to him and were like, you know, so much. And I don't think he understood that this was a joke. Yeah. He just saw it as a good opportunity to expand his LinkedIn network. Yeah, that's right. And it was. It was, he was networking, baby. Yeah. Anyway, so basically, right, this company, what it does

is it goes into places like towns in like Napa Valley or Lake Tahoe or whatever. And it buys houses and then it marks them up by an enormous amount. And then resells little bits of those houses to people. But they say nearly 10 million second homes sit unoccupied for 11 months or more in the U.S. Meanwhile, millions of people dream of voting and enjoying a second home. Many people. And Mr. C. Mal with this one weird trick. Enjoying a first home.

I mean, this is what, to be honest, this is why like kind of just straight utility thinking just poisons your mind, right? Do you ever realize that, do you ever see that statistic recently that like some large majority of the current homeless population of Los Angeles are refugees from the campfire? Do you ever think about all of those houses, all of those like communities just surrounded by forest just burning down? Anyway. Yeah. And again, like this is also not a small company.

This company is worth over a billion dollars. Great. Well, it has to be to buy all of those houses. So to solve this, we create, to solve this problem, we created Picasso, a service to expand second home ownership. So what they do is when you bought, they match you with like, it's like a key party, but for people without genitals where they'll match you party. They'll match you with other people who want to buy the same home.

They'll vet them. They'll handle all the sales details. And then you and your, you know, new sex party people own the LLC that owns the house. Oh my God. Incredible. And they just, and scheduling is easy with our smart stay TM technology. And then here's the thing, FAQs. You always know I love the FAQs of these companies.

Okay. Is Picasso a timeshare company? What do you think they say? Technically not. Yeah. I'm going to say, I'm going to, I'm going to say that they are probably going to respond to that by saying, no, we're completely different. We're, we're, we're a kind of cooperative of inspirational people.

More or less. They say Picasso helps people buy, own, and enjoy a true real estate asset, whereas most timeshares sell the right to use a fixed amount of time in a condo or a hotel shared by dozens of people. The, you know, the units are notoriously hard to sell due to supply and demand imbalance. But it's like, wait a minute, you own an eighth of a house. How is that a liquid market? It's, it's not.

It is a timeshare. It's a timeshare via an LLC. You've just called it something else. Right. They don't actually like address the difference between the timeshare and what they do. All they kind of, they identify by saying, but look, the timeshare only lets you kind of like own this thing, like nominally for a very short, for like a set period of time. What you, what you get with a timeshare, right, is you own a couple of weeks a year,

the right to be there. And the difference between that and owning one eighth of an LLC with seven other people is certainly something. Well, I think it's great that they're democratizing access to, to shell companies, because normally if you wanted to run things through a totally like unnecessary company, but in order to like avoid a certain contractual relationship, you would have to be engaged in some criminality. Whereas here, you can just do it because you're an idiot.

And I think that's beautiful. I imagine also that like lots, like as they're part of an LLC rather than, yeah, as they're part of an LLC, like the like, they also kind of bear the burden of like liability. Right. Picasso takes all that on through like reporting and all this. What I think is the main pitch that Picasso has is it's a timeshare, but because of a different, it's a different legal structure. It's materially different from a timeshare.

But when you think about what you're actually buying, which is the right to occupy this place, right? Because your ownership of something is in many ways, your ability to dispose of it how you will. You have a limited right to dispose of this house how you will. You can't King Solomon this shit. You can't take an eighth slice of the house off of the bulldozer. Exactly.

So it feels so fucking mendacious. But again, very funny because the people who they're tricking are awful. And I wanted to do a little before we sort of switch over to our discussion with Carter, I wanted to read a little bit of Picasso in press. In fact, this was linked in the TF discord in the stuff Riley likes channel, which by the way, thank you very much. It's very helpful where it says, Brad Day and his wife, get the name of this wife, Holly Kulak.

Oh, no, no fucking way. Brad Day and Holly Kulak. Come on. Come on. Why are you naming? Why is your name that? Come on. Brad Day and Holly Menshevik were first introduced to Picasso in May after a romantic sunset dinner

in the yard was interrupted by a drone flying over it to take pictures of their neighbor's house and film the street. And it turns out Picasso was taking these photos of these drones, which has caused in like Napa Valley where, you know, retire couples owned houses, they're worth like eight million like dollars or whatever. They've now started a grassroots anti-Pakaso movement because because as quote as Kulak fears that Picasso houses coming into the town would destroy their sense of community and turn their neighborhood into an adult Disneyland.

So I wish Picasso every success at making these fucking nimbies miserable, but I also wish Picasso every failure in the longer term. Let them obliterate one another. It's alien versus predator. Yep. Yeah, so whoever wins, we lose. Yeah, well, whoever actually whoever wins, it's very funny and we get to watch them fight. Whoever wins, we're still fucking podcasters.

Whoever wins, we will be in a fist fight for the last bottle of milk in a Tesco. That's right. That's right. With the Royal Logistics Corps. It's like one of my friends from Cambridge instructing various guys called Donald McDonald and Gaspas to keep order without hitting anyone. Where? Shut up.

You shut the fuck up. All right. All right. All right. That's enough of all of that. Why don't we go to our discussion with Carter? But just before we do that, we have a live show that's happening on the 1st of September. Tomorrow.

It's tomorrow. If you're listening to now, it's not tomorrow, but when you're listening to this, because the it's been like 10. Just show up and try and get in. Yeah. I'd say buy tickets if you want to guarantee entry. Yeah. There's a link in the show notes where you can buy tickets.

Try and like force the door. Trashfuture.co.uk slash events. Much cheaper. Yeah. That's right. So there's not a physical door, but there is security. So please, stage cops, huh? Yeah.

Cabin clues bounces. Anyway, so yeah, we do hope to see anyone based in the UK or to be honest, outside the UK. We just hope to see anyone based. Yeah. We'd love to see anyone coming to our live show. So please do go ahead and attend that. Otherwise, let's have a word with Carter. We're here in our second segment and we are very lucky to be joined by

cracking first segment. By the way, I've I loved it. Hey, you know, especially that thing you said, Milo. I love it when we are called the episodes in order. What a great time we all had during the first segment. Anyway, time to not go into that because you've all just heard it. Well, yeah. Well, what we've done is we've officially, we're doing a new experiment with the show

where we don't do any callbacks to the first segment in the second segment. This episode of the show is a lot like tennis. However, it is possible that there may be callbacks to the second segment in the first segment. So do remember that. Yeah. One of us is going forward through the podcast. The other one's going backwards. Yeah. So just keep that straight. No, like I was saying earlier, we are very lucky to be joined by Carter Waneer,

an OnlyFans creator. And we are going to be talking all about what has been going on on the platform in the last couple of weeks, months, years, forever. Carter, welcome. Hello. Thank you for having me. It is a pleasure to have you here. Getting there was the word and the word was with OnlyFans. That's right.

So why don't you just, can you just like briefly introduce the, I'm sure people have seen this in the news, but for a little bit of table setting, can you sort of introduce what has happened here? Why are we talking about this? Yeah. So I mean, starting from the most basic, I assume you know what OnlyFans is, but in case you're a listener who doesn't, it's a website where users can upload like video, photos, and audio. It is mostly a adult pornography website, 18 plus, and they take a 20% cut.

But for being an adult pornography website, they have always seemed extremely uneasy with the fact that they host pornography and are best known for hosting pornography. If you look at any, if they're official marketing, their Twitter accounts or anything, they seem to think of themselves more as like a subscription YouTube type website, where you can go to watch celebrity chefs share cooking techniques or, you know, workouts or whatever. They had like a promo where they like advertised like a magician. And a dick comes out of that.

So yeah, maybe they were aspiring to be like YouTube for magicians. Yeah, they really, they really wanted to be like this kind of not porn website. And so for a long time, I would say the creators on the site have been sort of anticipating that like, well, they might actually just actively decide to ban pornography outright and really pursue their dreams of being like the least appealing subscription website possible. And quite recently, they did that and announced that starting October 1st of this year, 2021, they would no longer allow, quote unquote, explicit content to be uploaded to their website. And they are drawing a distinction between explicit content and adult content, adult

meaning tasteful nudes that don't show butthole or like any visible signs of arousal. A tasteful nude should include butthole, in my opinion. It's a distasteful nude if it excludes the butthole. I agree with you. A dishonorable nude, yeah. A waste of seppuku because the nude didn't show but a waste of goddamn time. That's right. Looking at a print out of some nudes that do not show whole and just being like,

what the fuck is this shit? You send me this garbage. I was hammering my desk like J Jonah Jamison. I asked for pictures of whole. Molder, Molder throwing a pack of photos of an alien with no butthole on Scully's desk. You ever heard of the no butthole alien? Yeah, it's all over only. Well, I mean, I think the best example of what you're talking about, Carter,

is how like there was a big human cry about Rachel Dolezal finally getting it only fans where she would post like hair care tips, very specific kind and like feet. But like, yeah, it was just her like talking about her workouts. You want to know what color Rachel Dolezal's feet are? Get on your own, me. Wasn't the other thing for this, I might be getting the name wrong, but wasn't Bella Thorne some like Instagram celebrity who tried to use only fans as a non pornographic, non explicit website, but was just kind of like hinting at it like,

oh, I made an only fan. Yeah, I mean, like the the Bella Thorne thing was something that I think infuriated a lot of actual porn people and sex workers because she's like a, you know, like a Disney starlet type person and like she made an only fans sort of like capitalizing off of this image of it as a nude's website, you know, like, oh, you can see everything behind the scenes. And then she sent, you know, pictures that you have to pay to unlock priced at, you know, something exorbitant like $200 for one picture, promising it would be a full nude. And then it was just her in a bikini or whatever.

And it actually caused only fans to dramatically change some of their internal policies about how like how much you can price things at. And because she had so many people doing chargebacks as a result of her scanning. So it actually ended up like actively hurting the people who use that website for, you know, real, real pornography. She should have shown Butthole. You see, we live by a simple code on this podcast. No, she couldn't because she's a Disney woman, right?

You know who does show Butthole? You know what they are. Please go on. You know the musician who did that popular song a few years ago, Gigi on that beat? I thought you were going to say Rebecca Black for a second. No, the Gigi on that beat guy does like explicit porn where you can watch him like fucking the shit out of girls with his big, big, curvy cock. And also like takes it up the ass and curvy.

I like it. It's spiral. No, my favorite only fans account was the jacked guy who did only fan stuff with his really jacked dad. Yeah, excuse me. Yeah. They weren't fucking each other, but they were like both naked. Oh, sorry.

That's weird. That says weird as the Florida Gill radio show. I don't know. Dudes do kind of wrong. So hopefully pressing the dude's rock bottom. No, no. So what is what has happened, right? Is as you were talking about that only fans has always had as a tech platform,

as a venture capital funded tech platform headed up by Alice, you were telling me this earlier, like an ex Goldman Sachs guy. Not even just an ex Goldman Sachs guy. If I remember my facts correctly, the current head of only fans used to be the chief risk assessment officer, Goldman Sachs. And I'm curious about the kind of decision-making. Yeah, it's from one MDB to one MDP. The guy who founded and owns only fans is an Essex boy

who went to university in Cambridge. Yeah, it was founded by like three English guys, and then it just got bought out by like finance guys. Yeah. He lives in like a mansion in Stanstad Mount Fitchett now, which is so funny to me next to the fake Norman Castle. So what happened, right? Is that there's this platform that builds this sort of towering fortunes

for people involved on the basis of sex workers transacting there. And then, essentially, it always intimates that its long-term strategy is going to be to build up a profile with this, get some cachet, some edge, then pivot away from them. And essentially what it happened is, it announced that that pivot was now going to happen on October 1st. And I think the background of... And I think it's strange, right?

Because we see in the media, right? There has then been this backlash to it. I wonder if the backlash is partly because a lot of the people involved in it are very online. It was seen by a bunch of journalists who are also very online and ended up getting written about. But the backlash to it essentially was this. The campaign to get it to stop doing sort of explicit content

was essentially a small group of Christian dominionist organizations who are essentially... I hate butthole. Well, yes, that is kind of their whole thing. Is that essentially they are a bunch of groups that were all sort of started by like Catholic priests or headbang evangelical, moral majority people in the 60s and 70s. That have just kept rebranding to not seem like the villain of a Green Day music video in 2015. Well, then like Blackwater, but for Christian fundamentals.

Yeah. Right, right. And I think part of the backlash to the only fan's decision, as opposed to... Earlier, these same groups had a big victory with Pornhub that didn't get the same kind of backlash. And I think like a big difference there is that people understood how the content on only fans was being created. Like there's this very straightforward kind of like, I can follow a creator who is a normal person.

I understand how they're making this content and uploading it and monetizing it. Whereas Pornhub, as it existed before the sort of restructuring, was like a porno black box, like an aggregate. Right. It's like stuff shows up on there. You don't really have a sense of who's making it or what it's from, or like if it's stolen, or if it's uploaded by the creator. And so I think it was a lot easier for these fundamentalist groups to mobilize against Pornhub

on the grounds that it was a disgusting platform built on child exploitation or whatever, as opposed to only fans where you can see very clearly exactly how everything is being made. And it feels more, I think, visibly absurd to the lay person that these individual creators who just could be anyone's friends or family or whatever, are secretly part of some kind of like child porn cabal. As we always say on the show, parasocial relationships are only ever good. That's right. You should invest in them.

This is what I found so funny about the whole thing, because initially they were like, right, we're going to pivot away from doing porn. And then me, I'm just a dumb guy, right? But I'm like, but Pornh's your whole thing. So like then what are you going to do? That's like if we dollars all stuff. Yeah. But then it's like if we were just like, yeah, we're not going to make a podcast anymore.

We're pivoting actually. We're going to do like hamburgers now. I'm not in a position to tell anybody about the like why it's a bad idea to publicly fire bomb your entire career's deal on social media, because you just get a bit weird one evening. Sure. So I want to sort of like look at the history of this as well, right? We've there are these groups and we'll sort of go into them in detail a little bit later. That sort of come up in the 60s and they are campaigning for evil like to ban books.

They're campaigning to ban movies. It is this sort of going to ban that one movie that seven days long and has every character. Well, it's that this is throughout the sort of 60s, 70s and 80s. That's how they're working. And then and you know, they are they're sort of changing along, right? It's typical. Fast forward to to the Obama administration. And he enacts something called Operation Choke Point, which essentially makes payment.

Hello, hello, hello, dad. It makes payment processors liable for the things they process payments for. Essentially, what this does is it creates a kind of regulatory burden that is in practice impossible to comply with. Unless you're doing it selectively, right? Because they know no big payment processor, no big platform has the capacity to review every single thing that happens on it. And so this drive to to regulate.

I have no idea what it says in the trash, future t-shirts drive to regulate. Essentially creates a situation in which your banks and platforms and stuff can pick and choose where they crack down because of this feeling that they need to crack down. This all comes together when Nicholas Christoff, a man who let's say this right now, has never abused an opinion page in order to persecute some kind of strange personal vendetta, then alleges in the New York Times, this is last year, that Pornhub and Onlyfans are quote, infested, that was his word, with illegal and or unethical pornography, leading to, as you said earlier, part of the Pornhub decision where we stop,

where basically payment providers stop the acquiring for Pornhub and then continue to put pressure on on on banks to stop accepting payments for Onlyfans as part of a as part of basically a sort of anti sex campaign that's been going on since more or less forever, right? Yeah. I'm one that we're still waging on the trash, future discourse, do not post horny on the trash, future discourse. And so one example, right, is that morality and media was started in 1963 by some Jesuit priests in order to ban the publication of a book about sex work, right? Not even a book about sex. It was fucking Fanny Hill, Memoirs of a Woman of Pleasure by John Cleland, from the fucking 1800s?

Like, I've seen that book, like you've got to like, is that right at the top shelf of the supermarket? And it's like, got a plastic bag, but I like ask the shopkeeper specifically. Like Fanny Hill is like the most, I don't know, like, I don't, I don't know if any of you have ever read it, but it's like, it's a book that was written on a on a dare that he could write, when he was in prison, that he could write the dirtiest book in the English language without using a single dirty word. So it's incredibly goofy. It's all like, you know, like describing a dick, but it's like, not the, the, the plating of a boy, not the weapon of a man, but a maypole of such enormous proportions that it might have belonged to a young giant, you know, shit like that.

It's, it's not a book worth getting mad about. And, and so what happens originally? The 19th judgment we can trust as a Jesuit priest in 1963, this Jesuit, the Jesuit priests involved in morality and media, they basically do an early project Veritas thing, where they send a girl who's like 16 to go buy this book at a shop. And then they have the mother of the girl sue the shop and make a huge federal case out of it to try to get this book banned, and to try to create a moral panic about young people accessing smuddy material, right? And like very little learning about maypulse and the thing is, this cannot stand this morality and media group changed its name to the quote National Center on Sexual Exploitation in 2015, basically making itself sound like something

other than a club of Jesuit priest headbangers who are trying to ban sex. It's a deliberate like conflation with the, the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, for instance. And it's also your story about this, this like Fanny Hill Straw Purchase is very interesting to me because it sets up another one of these things of doing a bit of like child abuse in order to demonstrate that child abuse is possible, even though you're the one that did it. Yeah, it's the exception that proves to rule. Exactly. I personally, I love this shit. It's great. I love to be like, have you heard of the website only fans? Well, if you hadn't, allow me to explain it to you. Have you seen the film taken?

Yes. It's, here's, here's a real clip from OnlyFans. Just shows taken. It's like, one OnlyFans creator and it's like the European guys from Hostel. it's organisations like the National Center on Sexual Exploitation, or the very exodus cry, that are the main sources for Christoph's story. Exodus cry sounds like a death metal band. He gets fed this information that he then lawn from these like quite, like quite rightly said extremist groups, that he then launders into respectability in the New York Times. And then the idea of that is to create a sort of mass public backlash against

payment processors, who are then have the power granted them by the Obama administration to like deprive sex workers of another source of income. Really? I have a question. These groups, these like the creeply named exodus cry or whatever, they kind of feel like I'm going to regret asking this. How do they feel about any other social issue? I'll be perfectly honest with you. It seems like they don't even really care about human trafficking. Oh, interesting. Oh, that's crazy. Because based on their name, you would think that that would be something they would care about. They do believe, I was seeing like some material of theirs going around,

they do seem to believe that Hitler was appointed by God to punish the Jews. Oh, interesting. Interesting that these people who are fucking insane, are also fucking insane about other things. I have a little passage here about Exodus cry, which is led by a man called Benjamin Nolot, who calls himself a filmmaker. And he actually managed to land a few documentaries on Netflix. Because as we've talked about earlier in our quibi episodes, Netflix buys everything. They'll buy John Taliban, the pilot that I wrote with Noah. He'll actually make Spencer confidential.

That's crazier than any of this, in my opinion. So essentially, right, what we're looking at is, and by the way, this is from an article, a really good article on exbiz.com that this these quotes are from, where he actually, he wrote as part of the International House of Prayer, or IHOP, a 2009 manifesto called Babylon, which sees human trafficking, quote unquote, as part of a nefarious globalist conspiracy. Isn't most human trafficking for the like the purposes of work, like non-sex work? Well, it depends how you define it, because the thing is, what I wanted to sort of get into here as well, right, is that what this reminds me of is just QAnon. Because QAnon is disproportionately

made up of Christian dominionists, and there is, and even if these people aren't QAnon people, they seem to believe a lot of the same stuff. Like the weird Q, like save the children off shoes. Yeah, absolutely. It all feels about as concerned with actual human trafficking as one another, right? Because to save the children people, like they'll talk about high rates of kidnapping or whatever, when they never sort of say that what that actually means is usually children being taken by their parents who've lost them in a custody battle, for example. That's what that means 95% of the time. They also tend to believe things like literal underground tunnels full of like trafficked children. I mean, you get-

You're just small, they're easy to fit in a tunnel. You can get really into like pizza gate level stuff with this. Pretty quickly, it's like a couple of short steps. Well, I think this is also like why these kind of like anti-porn campaigns, and this broader kind of concept of like, well, the kind of like broader moral panics around the internet that have seemed to be emerging in the past kind of couple of years, that's sort of where it comes out of. And I definitely think there's like the QAnon element is kind of like amplified when post-Trump, I think there's been this crisis in certain QAnon circles about like, well, what is kind of like, with the prophecy not being fulfilled,

like what's going on, what should kind of like our kind of grand fight be. And it's very easy to kind of like target pornography, and especially like on atomized and like very kind of like consolidated platform economies, where the idea of being able to kind of access porn becomes like, you know, they can frame it as like, well, it's much easier to do so because it's like much more like valid and open, which means that the threat level is so much higher, right? I think we've mentioned it before, like, you know, this is kind of like a very old moral panic that has been reframed in new ways. But I think what's important to note is that like this moral, like the kind of amplification of this moral panic comes out of like a particular moment of anxiety in which

like this kind of conspir, like this conspiracy movement is really just unsure of itself and like what it stood for and like what the purpose of it was supposed to be. It sort of has, all of its beliefs kind of get laundered back into a middle class panic through the New York Times. And so I want to turn back to Carter, right? Which is that around all of this is basically your livelihood. Right. So some, if you don't mind me going on a tangent quickly, I'm sure some business minded listener is thinking, why the fuck would you deal with only fans at all and not just make your own website, which is like the most common response to this type of news? Yeah, why don't you do something? Why don't you like do real hard labor like a trading aetherium?

Well, it's like, you know, it feels obvious to ask like, why don't you make triplexcarta.com and just sell your content directly? And then you don't have to deal with this 20% nonsense or whatever. And you're not dependent on only fans or these other websites. And the answer goes back to like Operation Chokepoint and Cesta Fosta, where no credit card provider allows transactions related to porn. So you have to go through what are called high risk payment processors, which are not available on an individual basis. They're built for interacting with companies and like high risk, meaning online firearm sales, online gambling, online alcohol or tobacco sales and then pornography. Yeah, right. Yeah, yeah, all the cool stuff. So it just is impossible on

an individual level to take money for porn in like in a way that won't potentially get you completely shut down, which is why all of these kind of middleman websites exist. Like only fans, quote unquote, only took 20% off of every transaction. Popular clip sites like many vids, many vids takes 40%. Chatterbait like the popular streaming site takes 50%. So like, we are being like forced into these positions where like these enormous rich companies are able to exploit people doing porn because there's literally no way to get paid otherwise without risking all of your shit being shut down, all of the money in your PayPal being seized, etc. Which is why it's like so devastating when a big platform like OnlyFans shuts down because it's

like one of the only ways that you can get paid for your work, like quote unquote, legally or like officially according to terms of service of payment providers. Yeah, and it seems like the dynamics of this story in particular, and this isn't what I was talking about with Alice earlier, the dynamics of this story in particular sort of pitches that there are the way, especially the way it's been sort of picked up now that we sort of know is behind it, is there are the bad guys who are the Christian fundamentalist groups, then there are the good guys who are sex workers and only fans, which is the good guy, which is basically complete bullshit, right? These are still

extraordinarily like exploitative companies and they've taken on, because they take so much of those earnings, but this story has been spun to make them look like the good guys, right? Accusing them of the kind of like rapaciousness and exploitation that they don't do deliberately. Yeah, right. I mean like, my feeling about like OnlyFans as a platform or Pornhub as a platform is that like, they are currently a kind of necessary evil, but I certainly don't have any feelings of affection for them. And I mean, you know, it fits in with the whole like, sex work is just a job. I have had plenty of jobs where like, I enjoy getting paid. I like the feeling of being paid, you know, by my job, but I wouldn't say that like any of the corporate structures

I've ever worked for have been good or like non-exploitative, like jobs are exploitative. And like, it's just something that I think is pretty universally true. Like, if you work in fast food, you're not like, oh, thank you McDonald's for deigning to pay me, you know, you're like, this fucking sucks. Was there something we've said on this before, which is that like, you know, liberals will say that sex work is bad because of sex, whereas we would say that sex work is bad because of work. And I think this is something I often find where I mean, it like, I think sex workers are kind of at the thinnest end of this wedge, but I think it's a popular thin end of the wedge with anything related to like, anything that's considered sort of like,

you can get liberals to agree that it's harmless, but they also think that it's icky and therefore they won't defend it. So like, porn, recreational drugs, like all this kind of stuff where it's kind of like, yeah, well, I mean, logically, you are right that like banning this is bad, but also like, why do you want to do that? Are you gross? Like, no, why would I stick my neck out for something gross? Like 90 very indifferent liberals, and then 10 absolutely swivel-eyed lunatics whose ideas to ban sexual arousal without outwith the bounds of marriage, right? And it's always on the basis of like, well, this thing that's for adults, what if a child had access to it? And they're like, well, they shouldn't. They're like, yeah, but what if that?

So, and I think also, right, we look at the sort of the exploitation in the industry, right? We see it in, in only fans, we see it in the sort of, it's often talked about as being part of like, the legacy payment providers like Mastercard and JP Morgan, especially. But also, for example, it's all the disruptive players in the industry. Stripe has those same, has the same rules, Paypal as well. And it's because a lot of the venture capital firms that end up funding these things, themselves, have vice clauses in their own, in their own investment, in their own investment contracts, which mean that like, if you get, if you start a payment acquirer, say, you want to get investment from a Sandhill Road VC, you're not going to be able to take payment for sex,

for, you're not going to be able to acquire payments for sex workers, because every American rich person, no matter what their aesthetic is, all of them, even the Patagonia vest ones, they all share an ideological genealogy with like a Presbyterian minister that invented a special cracker to keep you from jacking off, right? Because where is British rich guys love jacking off? It's like, if anything, they love it too much. They're like, this porn you're making, does it have any Nazi uniforms in it? No, allow me to make a suggestion. Yeah. You need to make the porn weirder. Otherwise, I won't invest. For like payment processors, I can like, empathize to some degree with their legal departments,

because they understand that like, the public is gullible. And they are one Nick Kristoff, New York Times article away from, Oh, did you know that visa makes money off of child rape? You know, and like, that's so easy to do. And especially now that they can potentially be held legally liable for like, individual bad things happening. Like, I also wouldn't want to fuck with that if I was like a gazillion dollar company, like, that's the extent of my empathy for very, very rich companies. It's just like, yeah, I understand, like, fuck you, but I understand. It's because it's it's also connected, right? I think to the platform business model itself, because like the if you're a whole model is to try to put your arms around an entire category

of activity, right? Whether it's sending messages, posting nudes, making podcasts, whatever it's Christmastime, you're trying to magic, parasocial relationships, yeah, hair tips from Rachel Dolezal. If you're trying to, but if you're trying to do the platform business model where what you want is the most possible interactions because you're just monetizing every time something happens, then then all of the then all of the demands that sort of have been rising since like 2015, 16 for more say content moderation and Facebook, which by the way is where most of the actual sexual abuse images are. Yeah, like the vast majority of child porn is on Facebook. Yeah, yeah. But you don't see that's the thing, right? And this is where it goes back

to all of these demands for content moderation that are everyone making them knows there are at least everyone in like making everyone creating the frameworks for them knows that they're impossible knows that like Facebook couldn't possibly moderate everything on its platform. All it does right now is you have traumatized several thousand people multiple times a day, right? Like underpaid content moderators, because what this really is about is selective enforcement because they don't because if Exodus cry or the National Center on Child Exploitation was serious about this, they would be looking at Facebook, but they're not because there's because much like everyone or most organizations, especially like this, like the QAnon people or these guys

who like to say we're fighting like child abuse, they're doing that because that child abuser is the worst thing they can think of to call someone. And yeah, I think it's also worth like again, like on the ideological front, it's also like worth noting that a lot of these kind of like evangelical groups that have been like trying to campaign to get porn sites and like to kick sex workers off every platform, not just only plans. Like for them, it's not even about like it's not even just about like this vision of what the internet should be. It's more like this. Again, it's like another it's another form of like projected anxiety where for them like porn is kind of creating impotent men and those impotent men are like threatening

the notion of the nuclear heterosexual family and like that and therefore like the family ordained by God, right? So it's kind of also this like weird ideologic. They're teaching children that like it's okay that when you grow up, you can get pegged, which is like wildly antithetical. Well, I have a quote actually from Benjamin Nolot's book, says that basically speaks right to this says the weakening of the US financial system is leading calls for a global currency. National sovereignty is under attack. The force of globalization has united the world like never before. So human trafficking is on the rise.

Influential celebrities are awakening to a universal spiritual consciousness while religious leaders are encouraging interfaith cooperation. These trends are evidence of historic transition. But what will the world look like on the other side? And it's heavily implied that yeah, this the fantasy of the nuclear family is going to be burnt in the and so weak everyone can have green hair. We have created the world's first nuclear family in Soviet experiments. They have escaped containment. Chelyabinskaya Oblast is lost. Raise the barricades.

So I guess this goes back right to the to the platform model where if you're going to have only fans is or or or I guess a bit different for Pornhub, but if you're going to have a platform model, then like that's just inherent in the model and the way we've chosen to regulate it so that essentially with the application of a strategic Nicholas Kristoff article, you can sort of bring the law. Because everybody's going to be in violation of the law, you can sort of bring it down on unfavorable groups. Once again, the Soviet Union machine expensive. If you make everything illegal, you can arrest anyone at any time by select enforcement.

I mean, that's how I see it. But I want to know sort of if that's how you see it as well. Yeah, I think that that's definitely like pretty accurate. Like, you know, they're already trying to mitigate like liability in so many different ways. Like you mentioned pegging. The word pegged is censored on only fans. You can't send a message with the word pegged or pegging in it. Like they have like an incredibly arbitrary set of things off calendar to reveal January 1984. Yeah. Oh, my God. Are you suggesting that my plan to play a game of cribbage via only fans is going to be ruined by their content moderation system? Dreadful.

Yeah. And like, you know, they don't allow like almost no porn like website allows blood of any kind, including menstrual blood. Most of them don't allow what they call excessive fisting. That's like all kinks of all kinds. Excessive fisting. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, save it for a laboratory friend. Because there's like a special German guy is like bar fisting shows up and is expecting this is too much fisting. So all is no more than two inches from the hand.

But so please go on. Yeah. So I mean, they're already trying so hard to like mitigate the like obvious bad faith kind of attacks that they are subject to. And like none of it is enough because in the face of these groups and in the face of Nicholas Kristoff, like in any set of people in any job, you are always going to be able to find someone who had a capital B bad experience. And like when you have extremely bad actors like hunting for those people and holding them up is like this is what is happening. You know, I joked about this on Twitter, but it's like my brother worked at McDonald's. This is his first job and one of his coworkers was told to fix the ice cream machine

and like it mangled his hand and like they called the ambulance, but like to the far side of the parking lot because they didn't want to worry the customers. So he had to like walk out there. Like if Nicholas Kristoff wrote about that and was like, this is what happens at every McDonald's every day, we need to shut down all restaurants forever. Like that's the equivalent of what's happening with the porn industry. And that's that's also the thing that like really interests me about about Layla Micklewall, who is the big like Exodus cry person on Twitter, is that she will just fully like post images of like abuse of like various kinds herself in order to like, I guess to demonstrate that this is happening. But it's like, okay, but you're the one showing

to people, you're not like showing it to people, even in the hopes of like, you know, ending it really, you're just using it as like this, this sort of like this wedge you can drive in. No, no, Anna, she's posting that in the disclaimer voice. She's like, Oh, legally, you should not check off. I think what I see notice we're sort of, we've gone a little, a little long here. So I just want to ask one more question, Carter, which is a lot of people, a lot of very cynical, I think, possibly crypto people, I basically said, crypto fixes this. And I want to, do you think crypto fixes this? So I would be so much more open to crypto fixing this if crypto was not like a fucking sinkhole pyramid scheme nightmare. Like sex workers and

people who do pornography for their job are in financially precarious situations and do not have, you know, $100,000 late aside that their parents gave them to invest in Dogecoin or whatever. And like telling people in financially precarious situations to put their money into sort of like the question mark are, yeah, you know, and like hope that it might stay there or it might not. Like that doesn't work for me like that. What I'm talking about actually is that a lot of people have taken this opportunity to create crypto based competitors to only fans. So for example, the rapper Tyga has created a competitor to only fans called MyStar, which is based on crypto, which takes 10% rather than 20%.

And, you know, it's, and basically says, look, because it's with cryptocurrency, this problem of the banks getting pressured by Nicholas Kristoff is not going to be able to happen again. The problem of like, come coin exploding on the other hand. Right. That's the thing is I'm no longer on OnlyFans, I'm on co-britates competitive platform. It's one of these things, right? Where it seems, if you say, well, crypto fixes this, but it's just, it's another guy. It's just, it's another guy being like, hey, why don't you join my platform? It seems more like a competitor platform that accepts pyramid scheme script. Right. Exactly. And like, you know, so much of the problem is like with where the

audience is also, like if you make your crypto whatever platform, and nobody is willing to turn their money into come coins or whatever to use it, then nobody's going to make any money on it anyway. So like, I don't know. I have not seen any convincing argument to go with like one of these crypto solutions because it involves like these complicated other steps of turning your money into cryptocurrency and then back. And like in the meantime, the market is so volatile that if I get $100 tip today, and the site holds it for seven days until payout, which is the standard or whatever, in seven days, is that $100 tip going to be worth $20 because the crypto market crashed? Like that is not an interesting prospect to me. It's one of these things where

the tech people, the tech people love to come up with something that basically reproduces the problem and adds a new problem. So I guess my question is, like, given that I don't think we're going to ban horny, despite the best efforts of a lot of people trying very hard, given that I think people are still going to want to jerk off, what is the future of sex work look like online? I wish I knew. I mean, I think people will continue using platforms as they are available. And like, you know, currently Twitter is being sued by the same exodus cry people under the argument that under section 230, if Sesta Foster or whatever, that they are liable for the content uploaded to Twitter and need to do like real-time moderation on every

porn picture uploaded, and they need to be able to prove that everyone is, you know, above 18 functionally, like the lawsuit is like, should porn ever be allowed on Twitter ever again? And so like, if Twitter goes away, like that would again be an enormous blow. I'm also confident that like the audience of people who want to jack off to porn and pay for it would find another way to do that. Everyone would move to whatever other website was not going to pull this kind of shit. And I think this was the thing that was like the most frustrating, at least when I was seeing accounts from, and I'm not going to name anyone for like, like reasons, but you have kind of like seemingly sensible, liberal-ish accounts kind of celebrating the, or at least kind of like

suggesting that the when only fans kind of made this announcement, but it was completely justified, both kind of like morally and also like in terms of security and protection. The thing that I found frustrating was the fact that like, you know, you're completely right that porn is going to exist in one form or another. And like a move like this, not only put sex workers more at risk of like, you know, not just a financial risk, but like risk of safety as well. But at the same time, like what it was really advocating for was like more surveillance of platforms and more kind of like, it was kind of relinquished a lot of power to platforms that already kind of have so much kind of control over public space and discourse and like the parameters in which like you can

communicate and express. And like every time you sort of mentioned that like, well, this, this kind of starts with sex workers, but it affects everyone, especially as more and more people end up like becoming part of the content economy in some form or another, or like have to kind of work on these platforms. Like you're making the internet like both more restrictive and also like incredibly like much more criminalizing. And the same thing that people are like, you should have to like upload a scan of your passport before you can add Ian Dunn with the pig poop balls emoji or like the fair day in Britain for years. They've been trying to introduce this law that like, yeah, yeah, they've been trying to

use this law that you have to like your internet service provider will buy default block porn and you have to send them a letter asking them nicely. Like, can you please turn the porn tap on in the hope that if they do this, just like less people will watch porn or something. See, this is the British version of this is like, it's not Christian fundamentalist. It's just like, well, if you want porn, you should have to ask for it like from the top shelf, like a naughty boy. It's all the same thing. It's the sort of curtain twist. It's the curtain twitching and again, a very liberal desire to sort of have teacher be running everything. Yeah. And have everything be very clean and but to sort of make to point that power wherever they can,

wherever they can find it. Anyway, we fucking miss homework. They're all nerds. Anyway, with all of that being said, I want to say, Carter, thank you so much for coming on today. Yeah, thank you for having me. And where can people find you? Should they be looking for you on the internet? Yes. I guess the simplest answer is to go to allmylinks.com slash xxxkartaxxx on only fans. I'm just slash Carter. And on Twitter, I'm slash xxxkartaxxx again. I'm one or the other on most websites. Well, listeners, if you would like to both see some butthole and hear some interesting takes, you have a smorgasbord of options at your disposal. Oh, no, I just thought that you were like a big fan of the Vin Diesel movie triple X.

Yeah, absolutely. You're actually being sued by Vin Diesel. It's another big problem for sex workers really was about empowering Vin Diesel. Yeah. No, Carter, it's been great to talk to you. Thank you very much for hanging out with us today. Yeah. And to everyone listening, we will see you on the bonus episode in a couple of days where we will have watched Brian Rose's documentary he made about ayahuasca. Oh, no, will we have watched that? Oh, with Mystery Science Theater 3000 host Bill Corbett. See you.