TRASHFUTURE - Pinker 2: The Pinker-files

Episode Date: July 23, 2019

Okay, some housekeeping: this might be the episode where you can hear our brains breaking. Riley (@raaleh), Milo (@Milo_Edwards),  Nate (@inthesedeserts), and Alice @AliceAvizandum  discuss Elon Musk’s strange fixation on preventing SkyNet, new revelations that place Steven Pinker in Jeffrey Epstein’s plane on multiple occasions, and a Guardian article in which Alastair Campbell devotes an entire column to someone who was nice to him in the comments section. Seriously. Amid all this majestic content, Milo goes on a Trump-voice rampage and we basically lose our minds. And then the power goes out. You will probably love this, but you might wind up hating us! If you like this show, sign up to the Patreon and get a second free episode each week! You’ll also get access to our Discord server, where good opinions abound. https://www.patreon.com/trashfuture *LIVE SHOW ALERT* We’ll be performing at the Birmingham Transformed festival on 8th August. Details to come in the next few weeks. If you’re in the West Midlands, come down to Brum for a night of delightful soup jokes. Get tickets here! https://ti.to/birmingham-transformed/birmingham-transformed-2019 *OTHER LIVE SHOW ALERT* Come see Trashfuture live at the Edinburgh Fringe! We’ll perform on August 10th at 21.30. The venue is Venue 277, PQA Venues @Riddle's Court, Edinburgh EH1 2PG. Tickets are £11.50 and there are a ton of discounts available. Get them here: https://tickets.edfringe.com/whats-on/trashfuture-live-at-the-fringe *SPECIAL ANNOUNCEMENT* Guess who’s going to play live at The World Transformed in Brighton this September? That’s right, your favourite podcast lads. Buy a ticket here: http://theworldtransformed.org If you want to buy one of our recent special-edition phone-cops shirt, shoot us an email at trashfuturepodcast[at]gmail[dot]com and we can post it to you. (£20 for non-patrons, £15 for patrons) Do you want a mug to hold your soup? Perhaps you want one with the Trashfuture logo, which is available here: https://teespring.com/what-if-phone-cops#pid=659&cid=102968&sid=front

Okay. All right. I can still hear you, Alice. That's very good. All right, let's let us cold open actually with something very fun, which is that A, I'm back. So order has returned. So everyone here who's fans of their being notes. After a brief period of instability, the military has restored order. And that's definitely what it was. There's been no coup. The generals are treating us very well. Yes. Juan Guaido has been banished back to the Brookings institution so we can have a book deal. But I'd also now, my first act as El Presidente is I'd like to credit Ryan Hunt at high speed, Hunt, H-U-N-D on Twitter for sending in this article from Business World India entitled A Famine of Ideas for the Farmers. Oh, no. Nice. In line with our poorly defined

contest from a few episodes ago. So everyone follow Ryan Hunt. Ryan Hunt, go listen to back to the episode or redefine that poorly defined contest and tell us what you've won. Yeah. Ryan Hunt, accessory to the podcast reality bending powers. Thank you. And anyone with an idea for the farmers in India do also let them know. Also, I'd like to announce a new idea that I've had, which is once we get gettingyourdicksuck.com said on the BBC. This is all my plain thoughts that I'm just getting out now. I've got the next business idea, which is to amass some of money to pay an Instagram influencer to advertise a bike helmet, but as fashion that you don't wear with a bike that you just

wear while walking around the city. Yeah. Okay. That sounds very normal. America does things to you. It sounds like you had a really normal flight. Look, look, the thing on American Airlines, you plug in your computer didn't work, so I wasn't able to continue playing Civilization 6 for very long. Just sitting there listening to us be fucking idiots for two hours and just seething, just coming up with the worst takes. There was actually a choir nerd in my faculty in my first year at Cambridge who used to show up to lectures still wearing a bike helmet. I mean, she'd cycled there, but she would just continue to wear the bike helmet in the lecture. Yeah. I don't know whether that was to save time on

taking it off and on again, or whether it was like, yeah, safety first bitch. I'm not sure, but... Well, whatever it is, let's play the theme song and get into it. Well, welcome back to Tia. Well, I've busted a nut. While you were listening to the theme song, I was jacking off my cock. Well, now that I'm back and I've got the notes, as ever, we have like tons of content in today. So, as myself, Riley, Milo, Nate, Alice on the phone line, we are going to get right into it. Let's start with Neuralink. Like this new high energy style here. Riley decided to get full business professional

going to New York. He's going to be a finance genius not too long. Yeah, I wielded five minutes of meditation before the podcast. We actually can't see Riley because I have two monitors in my editing rig, but Riley has five monitors in front of him right now because he's editing. He's making sure his portfolio is fly. He's got his stocks. He's not stocked. He's also an irony guy who loves Elon Musk jokes. Oh, yeah. He's also just transcended visual form. He's like sitting three feet in the air above the chair.

Riley just joins the Skype call from the Great Beyond to yell at us about how we're not being business enough. Here's the thing, I don't know if you all read the notes, but that really prefigures what Neuralink is. You don't ever read the notes, Riley. You know this. Is Neuralink the Elon Musk thing? Yes, it is. So Elon Musk, if you don't know, now has a... You don't know who he is. ...sub-business. If you don't know who Elon Musk is, he's an evil Willy Wonka, and he's got a sort of sub-business where essentially he's saying he's going to connect some electrodes to your brain. You can control a computer with them.

And this is being pitched as a kind of species-level social enterprise to save us all from the incoming threat of widespread AI adoption. Whoa, but that already exists, right? There's plenty of ways for you to control computers with your brain already, for people with disabilities that don't require a redditor to drill holes in your head. Yeah, and also controlling a computer with your brain is just using a keyboard and mouse. What do you think you're controlling it with? Like the fucking, the homunculus that lives in the end of your dick? Of course you're controlling it with your brain. There's just like an extra bit of arm involved, but it's fundamentally your brain

that's controlling it. You just control the computer with your soul. Can you imagine if you were a regular car engineer and you worked at Tesla and you'd be like, God, I wish I had a CEO that actually told us what to do, but instead he's off inventing fucking mind control for computers and calling expert divers pedos because they're saving kids when my weird fucking rocket submarine can't. He wants to control children with his brain. Oh yeah, by the way. He just longboards in once a month to tell you to take safety tape off of things. As we go through this, do bear in mind that he designed a long, rigid, submersible to traverse a very crooked cave in what would obviously have killed a bunch of kids. Enough about my sex life.

So as we go through the rest of this, bear that fact in mind. So to answer some of the questions here, Elon Musk is aware that you control a computer with your brain via your hands now, but he's basically saying that the bandwidth of inputs that you can give to a computer is not fast enough with your hands, like your thumbs or your voice or whatever. Yeah, using a mouse is thinking one. Yeah, it's basically too slow. You're the weak link in that chain, basically. Secondly, Alice to answer your question. Yes, there are brought mind computer interfaces now, but they are like with metal spikes and so you can't have them in for like your entire life

or you'll get like injured. This is like some kind of weird little filament that you can have in for your whole life and can be added apparently like a Lasik surgery. Now, I remind you this got I remind you sorry, sorry. I hate when they have an actual like good answers to this shit because I was just expecting it to be like, Oh, well, this stuff already existed, but it wasn't epic enough. So don't worry. I'm not wait, wait, wait. So he's just he's basically just creating the matrix is like you get into a pod filled with goo and then and then you know, you get into a computer and it just feels real and then it rescues you from a cave. Yeah, exactly. When I was a kid, a friend of mine's dad was like a neurology researcher and he

did the thing like this would have been 25 or so years ago, but you had to like put on cathodes or whatever, like they put like the gel on your head and everything you put like a head thing on and he was like, Oh, yeah, we could like, you could like think of like think left and you could make get like a little model plane to turn left. This was pre 9 11. So obviously they have control of the plane was a less fraught concept. Yeah, I mean, this has existed for a long time. Yeah. And so I think he is that realistically the mind control plane center right next to the World Trade Center Research Center. I can't say any problem with the World Trade Center Research Center like when it was such building you World Trade Center.

And it's next to the assignment been law, been lauded Memorial mosque and messages, the civilization, the new civilization six tech tree got very strange. So what Musk has said is that AI is the rare case where I think we need to be proactive in regulation instead of reactive, because I think by the time we are reactive in AI regulation, it'll be too late. Normally, the rate of regulations are set up is when a bunch of bad things happen, there's a public outcry and after many years, a regulatory agency is set up to regulate that industry, but it takes forever that in the past has not been so bad. But this is something that represents a fundamental risk, a fundamental risk, the existence of civilization. Oh, it's not been

so bad when it's just killed poor people, but now it affects rich dumbasses like me. Now it's a problem. Literally, the first fundamental risk to the to the existence of civilization that might require a proactive approach to regulation. And you know, Musk has found it. Yeah. Climate change isn't one of those. No, of course not. But what I'm wondering here is this because he thinks Skynet is going to happen or is this because because he's decided to be like rabbit from Space Jam in VR using a mouse or the little Oculus Rift controllers doesn't give you enough bandwidth for inputs. Remember that because of SEC regulation, Elon Musk going on Joe Rogan and smoking a blunt actually put him under investigation. Like that literally was like a

like he'd committed a crime and like now he was under investigation. So my thought is, has Elon Musk just come up with a situation in which he is like massively trying to be a hall monitor for regulators. So he'd be like, look, guys, I love laws. Laws are good now. Oh, yeah. No, he's doing projection. What's really fucking stupid about this is that Elon Musk is being like, oh, yeah, you know, what if what if AI became sentient and, you know, like it destroyed, you know, turned all the computers and all the, you know, the Cadillacs against us, you know. So what we need to do to stop that happening is we need to give access AI access to our very brains. That's the only way we can prevent it. Now, that's sort of that's sort of right. But you're not

is what what Musk is envisioning is slightly different. He says, I think this is going to be important as a civilization wide scale because even under a benign AI, humanity will be largely left behind without a high bandwidth brain machine interface. We will not have and have the option to go along for the ride. So what it seems like he's saying is that AI is a risk because it is essentially going to make humans obsolete for every single task. It'll automate everybody. Everybody's jobs like even podcaster, heaven forbid. No, but it'll also super power killing machines create like super intelligent podcasts that like humans won't be able to understand without the Elon Musk brain computer. They'll be making cum jokes that are so layered

with like references and stuff that will be like, damn, these memes are beyond human comprehension. Say a vast number of slurs per second. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you Australian AI podcast. You just, you just, it's like you're sitting, you're seeing the entire matrix, but it's just pictures of mids. I was just thinking of, we watched this yesterday. Drongos, you need to wrap off of your ute amazing, amazing YouTube video of it was the guy from B movie being like, you liked jazz, but it kept doubling and are quadrupling in the screen. It was literally a billion times. It was like, it's that, but with the N word. That's what's got to do with the THX thing, where your hair gets blown back.

Lionel Stryver with an AI interface. Imagine what a billion times a second. Imagine what she could write. Imagine what she'd be free to do. If anything, it's curtailing her free speech that she doesn't already have one. I love it with the racist AI rights at a Lionel Stryver book. It's less racist than an actual Lionel Stryver book. That's the one job they couldn't automate away is job security for life. Is Lionel Stryver desperately wanting to say the N word for some reason. So, but I think what I find really interesting about this, right, is that Musk says that AI is this big risk because it's going to turn all of humanity obsolete, right? Like Ford,

the Ford Motor Company, not only will it automate every job in the plant, but it'll automate the CEO. Like all the humans will get fired from Ford. Yeah. We'll just become cars. And that's how the cars franchise started. Oh, damn. Or alternatively, turbo, turbo team. But thereby making trans people obsolete. Because everyone has a car now. You could be like a trans am. Oh, everyone is trans.

When you get fired from the Apache helicopter factory, you too will turn around and be like, well, I identify as an Apache helicopter, but you won't get your job back. It's like loudly pressing. They don't like it when they're all made to be an Apache attack helicopter. Maybe when Andrew Doyle actually becomes an Apache attack helicopter, he'll finally be free. He'll just have to get body mods to become a helicopter to keep his job. But I think what's interesting about this to me is Elon Musk sees all of this as just the trajectory of history. It's that AI is going to take over for us in every respect of life, and humanity is going to be destitute,

and it's just going to be a bunch of AIs interacting with one another. But AI is just a set of algorithms. It only does what we tell it to do. Also, I mean, he asks if this is this novel revelation. I mean, this is the plot of the Matrix and is also the plot of Terminator 2, Judgment Day, if you recall. I took over Skynet, etc. This concept of the computers getting too damn smart has been around since I was a little kid at least. Well, the difference is, in those cases, the imagination is the computers get too smart, and then there's belligerence between humans and the computers.

And they think what Elon Musk seems to be envisioning is the computers get too smart, and the humans are just made redundant. Ancient Babylonian Elon Musk just having nightmares about abacuses. But this doesn't sort of imply... I mean, I guess the idea that if the humans get made redundant by the computers... Elon Musk worried about the cunning Chinese. But unless the computers become so smart that they do a Skynet, how do they stop us from just turning the computers off?

Like, does he get into detail about the dystopia? No, our one weakness, being turned off. But that's the thing, right? At least he seems to think that it will create a situation that he seems to be driving much of, which is going to be the making obsolete of every human worker, and then capital still owns the computers. He obviously doesn't use that language, but that seems to be the dystopia he's envisioning.

And his solution to it is, we have to make human workers not the slow link in this chain anymore. But like I said, the idea that we need to let a chip into our brain so we don't lose our jobs is not a problem with technology getting too good. It's a problem with the idea of jobs in the labor market. What's the war hammer thing that they like put the space marine in the giant mech suit? Oh, the dreadnought. Yeah, it's just that. We have to master the technology by living eternally.

Thank God we put it into terms of that analogy so that everyone can understand. I'm just trying to pitch it to Riley's level. I was struggling to follow before. Look, we've gone from I don't know who Elon Musk is to assuming a deep knowledge of warhammer 40k. That's not that deep knowledge of warhammer 40k. That's a pretty entry-level knowledge. Maybe this isn't a thread you don't want to pull on, Riley.

What I'm loving, this tells us more about Elon Musk than anything else though, because it's just Elon Musk being like, well, I assume, as soon as computers get smart enough, our natural inclination will just be to replace everything with computers. I for one have already replaced my girlfriend secretly with an Android. I know it. Well, you joke, but she replaced her eyeballs or at least lied about it. Yeah, she either got them removed or thought or lied about it for cloud.

Yeah. What? Yeah, she said that she had had an experimental microfilm thing that she made herself in a lab surgically implanted to replace the top layer of her eyeball. To filter out blue light to make her not depressed anymore. Yes. Yeah.

Just normal. So normal. Yeah. But look, look, either she's an eyeball scientist and self surgeon or she's lying for cloud. Either one is funny. That's an extremely like Dr. Mengele energy that. Well, it's like an auto auto Mengele.

Auto Mengele. I just feel like that's the worst place to automate. That's the worst place to automate. Mengele. Grimes is like, it is the unpleasant answer to a question that you thought was a lot more novel. Like the beginning of the decade, you're like, what if somebody made anime real?

And then the end of the decade is like, oh, we did. Look what fucking happened. Yeah. It's like. AI Nazis, but I hate AI Nazis. So secondly, though, think of this brain computer interface. I think of it like the iPhone, right? The iPhone created the opportunity for our every social interaction

to be commodified, surveilled and sold on and so on. It is now very, very difficult to exist in the world without one. So we just put up with the privacy invasion. And Elon Musk seems to be proposing that we just accept that it will be impossible to live without a. It won't happen when we have a brain computer. Exactly. So humanity faces an existential threat, not from algorithms,

but what the algorithms will be programmed to do and who will get to program them. And it seems like it seems to me, Elon, like what you have done is you've created an opportunity for actually in averting this dystopia that you invented because you watch Terminator. You have actually created a much more real dystopia where like, I don't know, Hallmark or Tesco's

is going to have access to my literal dreams. I mean, this is sort of the plot of the Keanu Reeves film, Johnny Mnemonic. But it's just for one, iced tea is not a warlord in this future that commands an army of people living in a weird city post apocalyptic wasteland. I mean, on Twitter, he is quite, quite prominent. But it's one of those things where the idea...

That's more than the same. Posting warlord. Yeah, exactly. All you have to do is imagine yourself armed to the teeth instead of with owns, but with actual guns. But the point here is that those films always envisioned like this being pretty commonplace. But like, we haven't gotten to that point yet

because it's completely unnecessary. There's not... I don't see a situation in which people having been physically modified to better integrate with computers is solving any problem that we actually haven't realized. No, it's not. It's solving a problem that Elon Musk thinks we have

because he watched some movies. But realistically, what he seems to be doing is he's doing this. That's why it's so thinking too. Instead of shortening the work week, moving beyond jobs, this, that, and the other thing, the usual shit we talk about when James Medway's on or whatever,

he's thinking, no, no, I'm going to do something else. I'm going to invent a little chip so that humans will be able to be really, really good at continuing to make whatever the 2025 version of spreadsheets is going to be. What if your mum was an Excel spreadsheet? So basically, he's like... What if your brain was the cops?

Wow. The only way we can defeat computers is 1984. The only way we can stop Terminator from being real is if you make yourself into a computer, as opposed to what if we worked less? Well, that's the one thing to remember. Elon Musk accidentally invents the Thor police. That's the one thing to remember, right?

It's like, for billionaires, this is going to be entirely optional, but for people who have to continue to work for a living in this scenario he imagines, this is not going to be optional. It's going to be something you have to do. You're just going to be doing Uber Eats on a weird scooter, but you have to interact with everything

with a minority report thing. We have to swing your arms around. You know what? You don't have to have your brain linked to a computer, international waters, baby. Yes. I'm just imagining this. It's obviously going to have to take temperatures

and fucking indicators of all of your brain activity. And I can only imagine, Riley, if you got this thing implanted, you're out doing your horrible delivery driver job with your pop-up dashboard inside your brain displaying all of your levels, and it's just dangerously horny off the charts, just flashing red everywhere. And it's like, at some point,

they're going to have to either make the decision, do we want a sex robot, or do we want to just stop implanting people? Because ultimately- Just it's a race on the Chinese dick-socking machine. Like, it's already, that is the thing with the technology is already there. You know, I have defeated the horniness.

Yeah. Now I'm merely placid. I'm like a Zen cone in human form. He put horniness to the katana now. I mean, once he has the brain computer, he can just control alt-delete every time his dick gets hard, and it's all right. Absolutely, just shut down.

I like to imagine that the Chinese dick-sucking machine is only capable of sucking Chinese dicks, and that is why it's so named. Just a racist Chinese dick-sucking machine. Yeah, it's got a dick-sucker down below, and Calipers up top. But speaking of, I would like to move on from- That was a good segue.

From Mr. Musk. Calipers in front, party in the back. Pinker 2. Two pinker, two pinker. Pinker to pinker. Two pinker, two stinker. Two pinker, two stinker. Just sitting here with my libel or textbook

in one hand and the microphone in the other. So basically, we're talking about Steven Pinker being implicated in the whole Jeffrey Epstein thing. Like the Justice Statue. Nate says that Steven Pinker was implicated in the Jeffrey Epstein thing, and I just take a sip of tea and just spit it across the room. Like, what?

I just read his new blog post. His book is the best thing I've ever read. My name is Bill Gates, and I have Ben. Steven, even though I'm 50. Steven Pinker is the- Bill Gates is turf-bangs. Yeah, turf-Bill Gates. That's him.

Clippy's like, hi, it looks like you're trying to change your gender. Don't you know that that's part of the patriarchy? I can only imagine Bill Gates leaves 99% of his future to charitable research only to define there's two genders. He leads it all to a women's place. He's got the entire world into a woman's place. I've got 99 genders, but a bitch ain't one.

So I got facts about Pinker. And what I was going to say about Steven Pinker is, as we've established before in the podcast, Steven Pinker is the only person dumb enough to just benignly accept a lift on Jeffrey Epstein's plane. And then people are just like fucking children all around him. And he's like, what interesting performance art. So in 2007, Jeffrey Epstein,

from when his first, his first child prostitution charge, remember that one in 2007? Jeffrey Epstein's attorneys, including Alan Dershowitz, who got a massage from an ugly man and kept all his clothes on. Ugly woman, Olga. Ugly woman named Olga. I love, I fucking, I love Dershowitz. She is such a big brain.

Submitted a letter to federal prosecutors, arguing that their client hadn't violated a law. But this is from a, this is from a BuzzFeed article on this. So it's not making fun of the article. It's just an informative article. Had not violated a law using, using the internet to lure minors across state lines for sexual abuse. And God, if that is, if the miners hadn't suffered enough.

So what happened to that? Their communities have been decimated. So I don't, the idea of Jeffrey Epstein buying tickets to the north of England, like Durham Miners Gala. Just there in a teal touch. They told us he was going to get a free holiday lake, but then they're just letting this randy bloat.

Well, I told it to fuck right off. So basically, um, Alan Dershowitz, just left into Scottish and then back down to Durham. So the general, sorry. I pull on my mining dungarees as I get on the plane. So, so what happened is that Epstein, Epstein's lawyer, Dershowitz, asked Pinker to give an opinion on the linguistic interpretation of a certain law.

That's, he's a scientist. Well, a science, a pop science writer, right? Yeah. And he will also, if you've been in the New York Times enough, then you can talk about ordinary language, ordinary language theory or whatever. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, just, okay. Admitting that my, my browsing of the notes was cursory.

Alan Dershowitz asked Stephen Pinker to interpret the grammar and linguistics of a law pertaining to Jeffrey Epstein's activities. Yes. That's correct. Now, all of what you've said is correct. That's so normal. That's not, that's not like that. That's a lawyer's actual job or anything.

So. Bringing some fucking Malcolm Gladwell ass expert witness on what the means. So the law basically says that anyone using the mail or any facility or means of interstate reform and commerce to entice a minor into prostitution is subject to a fine and at least 10 years in prison. I don't know why they have the fine in there. And so Epstein said, so Pinker said, no, this law doesn't apply to Epstein because you, the prosecutors had not specifically shown that Epstein

had used online communication specifically to entice unidentified victims across state lines for his alleged crimes. Don't worry. It doesn't make sense to me either. I'm just, I never wanted to like, you know, cast dispersions, but I always wondered about Stephen Pinker's haircut. And now I know it is in fact the great British nonsing haircut. It's a transatlantic nonsing haircut.

We can't say if he did any nonsing. But we can say it's the haircut. Yes. All we can say. No, we can't say, but it's like, wow, when I, when I want to consult my nonsing scribe as to whether or not this law applies. Who do I put in my plan and fly the international waters? Stephen Pinker, the smart man who invets cloud ships.

Like it's, it's weird that Stephen Pinker, regardless of like what relationship he may or may not have with Jeffrey Epstein, has decided to come out and to bat for him on this occasion. He has really not read which direction the wind is blowing in. It's very much a caricane force. But I love that, I love that idea that Jeffrey Epstein is a pedo direction. Like Alan Dershowitz being a fuckwit, not with standing like, is still a lawyer who's experienced in the law.

He teaches at Harvard Law School. So the idea, it's like, hmm, who do I need to consult on this? The guy who writes final fantasy fanfic for airport books, take him into international waters and ask him whether or not this law, like this word applies. Like, there's actually a terrible lawyer though, by the way. That is, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's probably why I did it. Absolutely dog shit of a lawyer, but.

So Pinker, Pinker now has been catching some flak about this, responded to this week to criticism for being photographed with Epstein during lunch at a meeting with Arizona State University in everybody. Let's guess the year that was 2007. Pinker claims he doesn't like the guy very much and tries to avoid him. When was the ASU photo taken? I'm going to guess 2012. Alice, what was your guess?

2009 maybe? Milo? 2015. 2014, unfortunately, closest out going over Nate. Pessimism wins again. You win the washer dryer set. Yes. And the prize is a speedboat.

So, to take you out to international waters. So, basically, 2014. I'm not prepared for the Savile. They just gave me like a trot. I don't know. That's actually Jim Bowen. I should clarify. It's from Bullseye where the prize was always a speedboat for some reason.

They're all these people who lived in like a council flat. Every British light entertainment guy sounds the same, and it's basically identical to Savile's voice anyway. So, Pinker said, I could never stand that guy and always tried to keep my distance. Which is interesting, because they seem to hang out, get the picture taken. I keep my distance from him. When he was sitting in the other aisle of the private plane that we were flying on.

Departs unknown. Wait, that was Jeffrey Epstein? Why? That man could tell me his name was Jeffrey Epstein. Guy in Cognito. Jeffrey Epstein? Interesting. An interesting name.

Did Mr. Joufroy, the apple-epile-stine? Basically, Pinker says that, no, he shouldn't be tarved with the same brush as Jeffrey Epstein for a number of reasons. Epstein has insinuated himself with so many people I've intersected with. Alan Dershowitz, Martin Nowak, John Rodman, Steve Goslin, Lawrence Krauss, and so many institutions. Lawrence Krauss. And so many institutions.

And so many institutions he helped fund, such as Harvard's program in evolutionary dynamics, ASU's Origins Project, and Harvard Hillel, that I often ended up at the same place with him. This was before all the sex crimes. What a normal sentence. The pre-sex crime era. Wait, hang on.

I can't remember if I wrote that to myself. It's like BC and AD, but... I can't remember if I wrote that to myself as a note, but yes, this was... None of us read the notes anyway, so it's fine. Do you think this speaks to maybe something about those institutions that Jeffrey Epstein was able to be funding all of these things and meeting all these people after the sex crime thing? No, no, no, it's that what they're all about

is all of these institutions actually have learned from Joel Osteen that the important thing to do is to forgive, but remember to give. No, it's the Trump thing. It's keeping your friends close and your enemies closer. Oh yeah, the white hat pedophile. To be fair, now that this might be... Oh my... Donald Trump is too dumb to be a pedophile, honestly.

He'd be like, you know, a child would say something mean about one of his golf courses and he'd be like, you know what, no sex for you. Okay, I'm taking these big Macs away. I'm taking away the actor I played to play Grimace to get you in here and I'm going to go and I'm going to play with some people who respect business. Okay, very sad. You're going to grow up to achieve nothing.

Okay, very sad. Just can't. Look at you. Just can't. Look at your suit. It's worth less than $400. You're trying to... It's like wearing dungarees.

Like, no, that's terrible. Don't make me picture Donald Trump as an earthquake. I wouldn't allow you in my boardroom in that suit. Honestly, you're a disgrace. You can't even hold the club. It's ridiculous, folks. He's not even had sex with Pamela Anderson. Just tries to like impress,

tries to impress some kid by taking him to an exclusive club in Manhattan in the early 90s and it's like, this kid, you can't even get in at the Cirque. Disgraceful. To be fair, that does seem like an alternate script version of what is at home alone too. People have told us to stop with all of the noncing jumps. We'll stop when they stop doing the nonce.

Yeah. When the world stops, when the world jumps off the tracks of the nonce timeline, we're clearly on. 10 years ago, if you had told me that there was this much conclusive evidence that basically everyone with a net worth above $20 million was friends with like a pedophile who had a huge role attacks of every name,

of every person he'd ever taken on a noncing trip. I'd be like, no, that's insane. This conspiracy theory. And then they got published. Like every, every shit you're doing. It's just real now. Every conspiracy is real. Every party you can think of in this fucking country

who has of any means or political import. Like they all know him for some reason. It's like, so what the fuck are you doing? No, nothing is like. You know what it is that interesting? We're in this weird thing where we can't say conclusively that any of them except Epstein are actually pedophiles. But now we're also in a situation

where we can't be confident that they aren't. But it's also like since 2007 and you've known he's sex crimes man. What else does he do that's so important? I'm confident that Tony Blair isn't a nonce purely on the basis that Tony Blair is like not human enough to enjoy any pleasures of the flesh. Like Tony Blair would have gone there

to like drink their blood or something, but not for any actual nonce. He's definitely doing it in a few months. Oh, also wait, I had an unpopular opinion to voice about the donations to Harvard and stuff, which is like, you know what, I mean, the guys are huge nonce, put him in jail, whatever. But like, why shouldn't Harvard take his money?

That's less money that he has to do noncing. You know what I mean? Like it's better that they have it than he has it. The problem with Harvard specifically having it is that Harvard then uses it. The noncing research institute. I mean, kind of. It's just like the Coke industry's think tanks

for like libertarianism, but it's just for noncing. Yeah, Harvard, as they mean by evolutionary dynamics, they want to evolve kids who are smart enough to consent. I mean, that's just the way that it works. So the other thing is, not at all, but the other thing is funding Harvard. Like all you're doing is you're smart enough to get into the kind of clubs that, you know,

smart people frequent like me, like Ronald McDonald house. Okay, I went right in there. His house, very sad, very sad house, full of children. They're all sick, folks. Ronald McDonald, very bad house, doesn't even have a pool. That's what my kid was. Next door to a hospital. What kind of person?

There's no golf course. What kind of wealthy clown would live in a house this bad? Parable Christmas party. I'm fucking crying. Fucking hell. I need to collect myself. That's who doesn't drop things. Donald Trump being disappointed with Ronald McDonald's house

party because there are two and he's sick children. Okay. All right. All right, everybody. Professional podcasters. In through the nose, out through the mouth. Yeah. Game phase.

Okay. So I'll fit the last, the thing I was going to say about Harvard before the thing that just happened happened. Was that you shouldn't fund that either because it just trains the next generation of like C.I.A. Blackside operator or Dershowitz or Steven Pinker or Dershowitz or like it gives someone like Malcolm Gladwell an endowment. Like it's the world's most useless institute.

And then Arizona State University because it generates lots of like like playboy spreads. I'll say two things about Harvard. Number one is obviously they have like such an enormous endowment that it's beyond absurd. I mean, it's something along the lines of like $24 billion than the girls at ASU. But also like not as a rule, but like there are numerous

instances of Hillel centers and universities basically being weaponized against campus BDS. So the idea that Dershowitz who basically tries to get you sent to jail if you support BDS gives money or is involved with Harvard Hillel and Jeffrey Epstein. He really hates Korean boy bands. I don't know why he would be against BDS when it would create more international waters.

Pinker says next in trying to deflect from any kind of association he has from defending and then clearly being at least socially associated with a known pedophile for quite a long time is this. Don't you shouldn't be mad at me because as far as I know, I'm the only writer who has actually documented and celebrated actual progress in reducing violence against women and argued that this process shows that the effort

is not futile and should embolden us to press for greater reduction still. Wait, so he's saying. Going back to his tight five about how everything is getting better. Yes, correct. I've written about progress in the fight against violence against women and as a result, that makes it cool

for me to also be friends with man who has a plane like. Yes, correct. Yeah, that's the old black Gulfstream. I was going to say that is that is more or less a summary of Pinker's argument as to why you shouldn't be mad at him and here's why he remains my favorite public intellectual. The only man who will definitely not be on this list is Mr. T because famously he ain't getting on no plane.

But that's why Pinker is my favorite public intellectual because he has the energy. He has the American come at me energy of just like, yeah, well, you're calling me a pedophile. Well, actually, our pedophile associate, I'll have you know, I wrote a best sell. You're saying that I suck for being a pedophile associate, but where's your book that you wrote about how violence

against women is actually not as bad as you think it is. You know what, raise my kids. Pedophile mafia is such a powerful energy. He's a friend of ours. But here's the last thing about this that I really want to enjoy. I do enjoy. I want you to all hear it so you can enjoy it too. Dershowitz said of Stephen Pinker's contribution,

he said, it was just one among many arguments as to why the statutes were not applicable in that case. And in the end, it was one of the main reasons we got the deal we did because we had so many persuasive arguments. So I now present to you a conclusion from all of these facts. Either Dershowitz's statement is true and Stephen Pinker wants us to quote not tar him by association with Epstein, a monster he helped defend and free to offend again.

Or this statement is false and Epstein was given a plea deal because of the deeply corrupt nature of the American judiciary and Stephen Pinker is an irrelevant moron. Which one is it? I think we should believe Dershowitz when he says that he's just an amazing lawyer. That's my new feminist campaign, believe Dershowitz. Yeah, always believe Dershowitz.

I mean, it's a real doozy of a situation, isn't it? I also love that even Dershowitz himself is being like, look, clearly my client is a massive pedo, but due to the incredibly clever things that we said, we have managed to find enough loopholes in the pedo laws, which are mainly designed to deal with non-billionaire pedos. Who are much worse at being pedos than my client, who is an excellent pedo.

And so on that basis, he really had my leg to stand on. Genuinely baffled. How it got this far though? Like, how is he even arrested? And how is he not like turning up dead in jail? You mean Pinker or Epstein? Well, I mean, I wouldn't object, but Epstein. Parity.

Parity. Yeah, I mean, I think Epstein- Parity, we would object very quietly. I think once you apply scrutiny to the deal that Alex Acosta provided to Jeffrey Epstein, his plea deal, it was very obviously incredibly favorable and generous in a way that he probably wouldn't have gotten if he wasn't not only incredibly wealthy,

but also connected so deeply with basically the entirety of the establishment, both in the US and basically Western Europe. I get that the first time, but then this new arrest and this new prosecution, I don't understand how that happened. Yeah, that's what I said. We know he's so connected.

If you think about this as well, all of the... If you have evidence that the powerful institutions with monopolies on the use of force in your area are... Local institutions in your area. Thank you. I was waiting for you to do that. I paused so you could do it.

Yeah, who? Honey. Yes, exactly. I just find it funny, there's an entire American TV show about luring pedophiles to your kitchen, to your kitchen house and basically send them down and be like, let's have a conversation. It's like when there was a really famous guy

who was running flights called the Lolita Express with Bill Clinton on them, it's like you'd think there would be some scrutiny applied. Well, what I was saying is that like, look, if you're... Well, I'm sure this play doesn't have a kitchen on it. If you're standing up to the... Your Bill Clinton is basically Michael Jackson,

I'm just saying. If there's anything we've learned from the fly dogs... Jesus Christ. I'm never going away again. You guys have gotten too bold. We've gotten too powerful. So, but if you think about this, like everyone in Ferguson who has all of the evidence

that the police department has been systematically committing crimes, keeps turning up having shot themselves twice in the head in the trunk of their own car, right? Yeah, which they get set on fire. Yeah, of course, which they did themselves. So, very dramatic like Viking suicide, which I approve of.

So, what it seems to me that happens is, if you are poor and can't actually hurt these people, except for with that one thing you know, you have it like set up kind of some kind of like dead man switch to release all the pedophile information. The guy who filmed the cops murdering Ariana. Yeah, Ramsey Orda, who basically got banged up for like heroin charges and has been in prison basically,

because the NYPD has matted him for filming. And they tried to poison his food, Rikers. Right, so that is who gets killed. If you're these... And I think part of it is just this guy's their friend. He's their friend, so they're good friends doing favors for friends. They're not disposable like all these other people

who are trying to make life even minimally tolerable for everyone else. I'm worrying the amount of sense, but like what about all of this speculation that he was blackmailing people though? You think you take the opportunity to like, you know. I mean, I think he realistically, look, I hate to echo what is said on other shows,

but I think in this case, Chapo got it right. He's going to get put in prison for a short amount of time. He's no one else is going to go down for this. No information is going to get released. He's going to be in like a Dinesh D'Souza style white collar jail. And that's all that's going to happen. Someone wants to scrap this golf prison.

Yeah, that's what he's going to go to. He's going to go to golf jail for a short period of time. Folks, very good prison. It has a golf course. You know, if I went to Ronald McDonald's house, he didn't have a golf course. Not again. All I'm saying is your 15th prison.

It's a lot better. Not this again. Cut his mic. Cut his mic. Right, but so he has enough power and influence that he's not going to get killed like, you know, like the like the person who reported Eric Garner or all the Ferguson murders,

because ultimately the people he's blackmailing are also his friends. And all of these people are too dumb to turn on their own friends. Also, I feel like as a billionaire pedophile, engaging in any kind of blackmail is an extremely bold move. Like, yeah, but clearly it's paid off for him though. Yeah.

Well, you know, what of the people he is blackmailing done because like the kind of shit they must have on him. Man, what did Saddam Hussein have on Tony Blair and Bill Clinton? Damn. I mean, I think about it like there was there was the story from the when when he was recently arrested about all of the things they found in his safe that were like that was redacted. He had just labeled.

But it seems as though they were like basically yeah, yeah, like like like video footage of X with X like. So we must have gotten too close to the truth in that the truth about Pinker, the truth about Epstein, the truth about cloudships, the truth about clout, who knows, because yeah, exactly, because the deep state came in and turned off our power while we were in the middle of that at that segment previously. And they have extraordinarily rendered Milo to a comedy show that he's doing.

Just literally dropped out mid sentence. Literally dropped out mid sentence. I thought Leon Black's private death squad had got you. Terrifying. Yeah. Well, Milo's doing great. He's performing a headline show in a very dark position in Morocco right now. It's all good.

Yeah, exactly. So he's he's been extraordinarily renditioned. But we we three remain to do the final the final segment. We're just going to cut out again. There's going to be one fewer of us. I have here. I think I think we basically bottomed out the don't do it. Don't say it.

I think we have basically talked about everything there is to talk about in terms. I mean, me too. I often find as I've bottomed out on Jeffrey Epstein. Yeah, I find I think we've I think we've basically bossed out on Jeffrey Epstein's plane. And I don't think we bottomed out on the Joel Jeffrey Epstein topic. But I think the whole Steven Pinker thing, I think we've basically covered what there is to cover there. He's still a dumb ass.

He still believes that his like dumb pan glossy and pions to power are somehow going to like make people like him. Yeah, and it's not even liable because none of us really think that he's a pedophile. We just think that he he has face blindness or he has like a weird Mr. Magoo confluence of circumstances where he just misses all of the pedophilia. Yeah, he's he's either sort of a scurrilous weasel or he's an idiot or he's both. I mean, I hate it when I'm just, you know, a wordsmith who's hard at work trying to make people understand the world.

And the noncing express shows up and asked me to interpret words for certain laws regarding to child sex trafficking across state lines. A normal thing that happens to the best of us. He's just you know how hard it is to get a flight to Arizona. Like they basically don't make planes that go there. And and furthermore, like, look, Steve, this is just Steven Pinker being a worker. Are you anti worker, Nate?

I am. He's just trying to make ends meet. He just wanted to get free airfare to that academic conference about cloud ships. Exactly. You know, like they gave it they have free air for they're like, hey, if you think he didn't do any pedophilia, that's actually asphobia. So, you know, rethink this. Oh, man.

I hate canceling myself. All right. So we're all going to cancel ourselves. And we're cancel. May a copper, may a maxima copper. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So before we finish out here, I'd like to do a short reading from a certain Mr. Alistair Campbell.

Yes. For our American audiences, we just should understand Alistair Campbell basically was like a sort of David from like figure in Tony Blair's cabinet during his administration when they got into the Iraq war. But somehow considerably sleazier personally. And also don't forget his daughter has done stand-up comedy with Milo before. Oh, God. What is it about improv groups and stand-up that just attracts the children of incredibly

powerful people? Well, look, just like with just like with the fake dossier that led to Iraq war, it's everything is made up and the elaborate string of pearls configuration on the chemical weapons doesn't matter. Yes, and your way into invading Iraq. As Uday Hussein famously said, why are there so many genders? Yeah, Uday Hussein for the spectator. He should have identified as an attack helicopter.

Maybe it would have been harder to kill him. See, if he had just called it said that he was in a safe space, Iraq wouldn't, you know, they the U.S. wouldn't have been able to shoot rockets at his house. Because of the SJW military that's been cocked. I hate it when that happens. Except, of course, for the parts of the military that I worship and have and have my bumper stickers themed after, which makes me a veteran. Navy SEALs are alpha and then everybody else is cocked.

The most Navy SEAL, the most alpha thing a Navy SEAL can do is start up a car dealership. Imagine if a Navy SEAL came home and found out his wife was fucking somebody else and he's like, isn't supposed to happen, right? I do the cocking, not the other way around. Damn, we hate to see it. But, okay, so here's the title of the article. Navy SEAL voice, though. Yeah.

Well, I mean, there isn't the, yeah. Yeah, that's the, listen, listen, guys. Stop doing SEAL face. So from Trump to Boris Johnson goes the headline, we're moving from post-truth to post-shame by Alistair Campbell going from post-truth to post-shame, a condition I would be very happy to see widely adopted. It's literally the problems are very bad, but their causes are very good. Yeah.

And also it's like, no, I made an innocent mistake. Everyone else is doing evil shit. Because yeah, number one, Alistair Campbell, you are in a very direct way responsible for the war that destabilized the Middle East, which is probably the event that has caused the single most misery in recent human memory. But no, the most important thing is that we make sure that you're like, do nothing job for the Guardian, that you basically sit around like fucking furio on the Sopranos eating his sandwich, that you just get paid hundreds of thousands of pounds a

year to just write an improvement. Because at least he's making me want to kill myself instead of David Kelly. Jesus Christ. So, yeah, so this is the Alistair Campbell. He just wants to keep his job. But there's the other great thing. The content of this article really gives us a window into the way he thinks, because it's just him complaining to the mods.

It's him talking about the posts he likes. And the post he doesn't like. There's been a lot of mods, mods going around like everywhere. The way that the Democrats are reacting to Trump being a racist shithead, the way that the U.S. Congress is basically like, well, we can't call the president racist because it's in the rules that says you can't. A lot of stuff about Boris Johnson and the way that the conservative party leadership contest or Brexit, etc.

Appealing to the mods seems to be like a universal transatlantic phenomenon these days. And somehow the mods haven't been ban hammering anybody. Like they just won't do it. This is different. This is moderately post rare Riley photos. Do not post me. So this is basically Alistair Campbell reviewing a comment section and then bemoaning the death of mods.

I hate it when the mods don't delete. Obviously because Alistair Campbell probably wants the mods to delete anybody who adds them on Twitter and says Iraq war. Yeah, except for the following. So here, here begins the article. I tend not to read the online comments about anything I write for the Guardian. I wonder why. Probably because they remind me of the genocide I helped.

I helped commit the implication that he reads the comments on stuff he writes for anyone else. Because if so, I need to revect in my cyber bullying. I made an exception, however, for the comment section beneath an interview I did for the Guardian Australia. They should be more racist. And I'm glad I did because there were two comments so good. They left me wishing I had written them myself and I shall be certainly using them again in future. This is she's the oldest person on the internet.

I love to bring printouts of Guardian comments under my thing and just read them. I can only imagine him reading these comments, having printed them out and balancing some reading glasses on the tip of his nose, just like, yes, let's see. So he continues. I have no idea who this quote sleuth for truth all one word sleuth for truth is, but someone should find them and hire them as a speech writer as they wrote voting for a populist party is like diving headfirst into an empty swimming pool because you're angry. There's no water in it, unquote.

Brilliant. Trump and Brexit to a T. Does it mean this finally some online comment are called sleuth for truth figured it all out and Alistair Campbell is here to sell it to the masses. You know, it's weird because can you imagine if someone writes a similarly like salient and observant comment on one of his pieces for the Garden Guardian Australia that's like, you know, in the grand scheme of things. The populists are willing to take advantage of our post-truth society and manipulate it

and something along those lines that he finds really insightful. And he's like, but it's written by someone named hot and horny for 2069. And he's like, well, I have to, clearly I have to name them. And this is the concept behind getting your dick suck.com. Yeah. So thank you, Alistair Campbell for proving us right, sort of, in this theoretical world. I like that in this analogy, he drained the fucking swimming pool. Oh, man.

I hate it when Alistair, the commenter named Alistair Campbell's pool. Boy, it just starts owning you relentlessly. Just, I remember back in the days of new labor when conservatives thought that this guy was the Prince of Darkness and he was so smart and he was just going to do like nefarious machinations. It turns out he's just fucking stupid. He turns, he's basically that he was that figure to them and now he's remember it. The question is, for me, the question with people like Alistair Campbell is it always

goes back for me to the Adam Curtis thing with hypernormalization and how the scenes from the movie The Rock were used to inform the dossier that led to the Iraq war. But then a strange thing happened. There was no water in the swimming pool. But, and so I always sort of go back and forth on is Alistair Campbell know that he's lying and is evil? Or is he so dangerously incompetent that it would be malpractice to like let him out of a very soft padded room?

Well, I think it's both because he talks about mental health a lot and like mental health issues and charities and stuff because he gets depression. I feel like when he gets depression, those are the moments of latency. When you get some kind of self knowledge. Everything else is just like this. Yeah, everything else is just him looking at comment sections and be like, sleuth for truth has a point. This is where we find out that actually this is just a very tightly established partnership

between him and Brett Stevens to write marginally favorable conversations. He writes all of the letters to Rod Dreyer too. When a few populists piled in on sleuth for truth, this commenter held their ground and added, populism is the art of agitating disaffectors to vote against their best interests by amplifying problems and not really offering anything in return. I wouldn't know anything about that Alistair Campbell. Yeah, he certainly didn't amplify any problems. In fact, he didn't amplify any problems say at home or abroad.

No, new labor didn't exacerbate any underlying social tensions or international tensions. Ten years of rhetoric about reasonable concerns about immigration. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, as we all know, everybody in Burton is a lot more reasonable immigration now because we've addressed those concerns. Exactly. Just spreading jam on the floor of my kitchen and then wondering why I have ants. So for those Americans listening, new labor really ramped up.

The coal clamped down on immigration stuff. Because they couldn't give anyone anything through the state, a lot of what they had to do was just say that immigration was too high, reduce immigration, blah, blah, blah. So if you want to know where they all got these ideas, it's him. And also something I point out too is that in the aftermath of Brexit and such, now the idiotic British right-wing media default media examination of new labor, even though they did all the dumb racist cowtowing and trying to triangulate to get the racist vote,

they're still like, well, labor brought us into the fucking EU. Whatever the EU treaty was at the time, they let the floodgates open. It's labor's fault. The right-wing people, the point being that if you try to triangulate with racists, they're still going to turn around and be like, you did all these bad things and we need to be more racist. There's zero way to accommodate them anyway. It's almost like their goal is domination itself,

not a certain level of migrants in the country. Exactly. Apparently, about new labor. I saw a Daily Mail comment back in the day that was the densest example of, you know how boomers will come up with neologisms that make them happy about it? I love that. That's my favorite thing. Yeah, like Barbsack or Crumbo and stuff.

Exactly. But I saw one of those that did that. They're doing it for AOC now. With new labor, but it tried to do too many of them at once. It was too dense. Oh, I love it. It's my favorite thing. It was Zanu-PF-Li-Bor.

So it's like Zanu-PF-Li-Bor. Yeah. So like Zanu-PF, the Zimbabwean, Ostracratic Political Party, but also it lies and also it's boring. Well, that's like when I love when American like MAGA boomers can't do the same thing with the Democratic Party, but they change it, like do the same thing. They change it beyond recognition. Like Dumbo Craps or whatever.

No, no, no, like the demon scrapes. And I'm like, what? At one point, there was a really insane anti-Islam political cartoonist in America who kept calling them the... At one point. Well, yeah, but I mean, this guy was at one point more prominent than he is now. He kept calling them the Democrats. Oh, I remember that.

No, there was a Pamela Geller thing too. Oh, shit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because the Democrats were doing like Demetrued. So back to Alistair Campbell. Back to the only true thing I have record of Alistair Campbell writing. Insightful commentary from Hot and Horny for 2069. Trump, Salvini, Johnson, Farage.

Sleuth for Truth has your number. You've got to be fucking kidding me that like this... I'm not kidding you. It's what he wrote. It's what he wrote. The po-faced, disgraced, former Blair speech writer is like, I love it when people sock-pup at my fucking bad columns. I love when people are nice to me in the comments.

Just, okay, writing a column about someone who is in the comments. It's self-care. This is self-care. Okay, here's a mission for every trash future listener out there. Whenever... Put on tweet alerts for Alistair Campbell. He's at Campbell Claret. And then, every time he tweets,

just be supportive. And I'm not being ironic. Just say, hell yeah, Alistair. Good one. I mean, this reminds me of the fake Carl Diggler article. He's like, I'm tired of these trolls and now I'm going to dox them. My number one troll is Dr. Rick Ass. He's gotten all the names wrong.

Yeah. So I think that it's time for us to just basically tell Alistair Campbell he's doing a good job and that he should believe in himself. And he should keep writing columns because I really like this one. It's very sort of innocently dumb. It's kind of heartwarming. I mean, to be honest with you, when I was in high school, I used to write columns for my high school newspaper

and I remember getting on a gaming forum and just being blown away by some of the dumb shit and writing a column about people commentary on the internet by people with ridiculous usernames. But the idea of a former new labor heavyweight with a Guardian cynic, you're doing this, it's just like sublating. Quitting Twitter is lazy fucking columns.

But be like, I've quit Twitter and I don't read the comments, but this one comment was nice to me and this guy is a genius. You should hire him. It's like, I just can't believe this got published. It's the Guardian. And that's the most left newspaper we have in Britain. Oh, we love it. What the fuck?

Yeah. No, come on. Morningstar. Morningstar. Morningstar. Yes, but let me just... Somehow more turfy than the Guardian. How about this?

How about this? Gettingyourdicksuck.com will be a genuine... It's going to be a genuine left voice that is not going to also do what the Morningstar does, which is be turfy and defend Chris Williamson. And so here's what Campbell continues to say. If our democracy was functioning well, there would be an opposition in the ways...

Well, there is. You just don't like it. A government in waiting providing answers and the solutions, the leadership and the strength in depth that the government is failing to. But what is... That's not happening, is it? In recent polls, labor has been closer to single figures

and the kind of support needed for majority. Not true. Not true. Not true. Not true. Not true. Not true. Meaningful either.

Yeah. Completely not true. Just A, that's not true, Alistair Campbell. I don't believe these polls that are constantly showing labor ahead. I choose to believe they're behind somehow, in my mind, thanks to Jormie Crubbins. No.

What he did is he uncocked the polls that show that labor actually is negative 100, that everyone is actually... They just want someone that's going to be a nice version of the Tories. Well, you just have to correct the sample for like snowflakes. And once you take them out,

and that's only like 70% of the electorate. Once you take them out, then it's much more realistic. You know what's really fun? I've noticed that if you call John McTernon a Tory on Twitter, he'll quote, tweet you and say in all capital letters, I'm not a Tory.

I guess the thing about it is it's so weird, because you don't want to apply like a rule and you want to assume that people have a little more subjectivity and depth, but you really can. Any wounded professional commentator from the new labor era, their MO can be summarized in two things.

Make the bad man go away and I did nothing wrong. And it's like, that's literally all he's got. And you know who thinks like that? Kids, like four-year-olds. It's a four-year-olds approach to general political life. It's like someone just gave a four-year-old a brain-computer interface and like uploaded a thesaurus into them.

And this is what they would write. I mean, it's fair. Four-year-olds do talk about their imaginary friends a lot. Sometimes they're called sleuth for truth. Sometimes they're called Bobby and they're a dinosaur. So, populism is not about being popular. It is the relegation of- Do you stay up all night thinking of that one?

It is the relegation of fact and reason to lies and emotion. We love it, folks. We love it so fucking much. He's such a forum guy. I'm so tired. The main point I made in my interview in The Guardian Australia is that the populism of the right

would not be defeated by the populism of the left. What the fuck is it going to be defeated by? People shouldn't want things that they want. People should want things that I think are good. Well, by the way, my handle includes the word claret. I'm just going to speak for all British people. Number one, claret's good. Number two, you can get-

Okay, I'm going to do Riley's review corner. Fucking do some Canadian wine reviews, please. No, sorry. Number one, I had some fucking baller Canadian wine when I was in Canada. I had the 2006 Stratus Red. It's sick. We knew you were going to.

We knew you were going to. Number two, you don't have to spend a lot of money to get a nice claret. You can order the Barry Brothers Good Ordinary Claret or Extraordinary Claret. And I think it's like 12 quid a bottle. It's the nicest, reasonably priced red that I know. The people's flag is deepest red, but it's stained with wine.

Number two, right? Campbell says here that populism is about amplifying problems and not offering workable solutions. But then what do you call labor's policies on nationalizing utilities and railways, extending worker ownership of companies, and otherwise materially redirecting resources? How is that?

He's a aristocrat. How is that not a solution? That's a very, like, material policy. It's just you say it's not a solution because it doesn't include means testing because it's not making some kind of uncomfortable compromise that you think is hard-nosed politics. Again, because you're an easily tricked child.

He's basically doing the neoliberal version of Stefan Malinu, thinking he's a badass by saying not an argument, but actually he's just like super divorced. Well, I'll tell you what he is. Is that he is a dinner party populist who is just complaining about posts and retweeting someone who is nice to him and replies

while offering nothing of substance in return. So what you're basically saying is Andrew Doyle caused the Iraq war? Parody. All right. I think that's going to do it for us today. Try not to turn up missing after this episode. As ever, thank you to everyone listening

and thank you all for coming on. We are going to be at Birmingham Transformed. So if you want to see us there, you want to see another range of excellent guest speakers. I think a lot of them are coming. All the stars, all the hits, we're going to be doing an episode in Birmingham with Soweto Kinch, previous guest on this show,

and Alice, current person, current member on this episode. No Milo though, because he's going to be in Edinburgh. Sorry, I was trying for parallelism there. Just doing the paradox of being in Birmingham, but not in Edinburgh, just to annoy people. Yes, absolutely. So we're doing that. Also, we're going to be at the Edinburgh Fringe

on August 10th. We still have some tickets left for that. We have, what if your phone was the cops shirts? Although I think we should make another round saying what if your brain was the cops? Just wires going into the police helmet. And then what if the cops gave good brain? All kinds of fun stuff.

It's called jeans. And then, you know, we got a Patreon. You can subscribe to it. Oh yeah, also we're going to be at The World Transformed in September. Yes. And we got a Patreon. You can subscribe to five bucks a month,

second episode a week. You know what to do. All right. Goodbye, everybody. Bye.