TRASHFUTURE - Pissphoria feat. Abigail Thorn

Episode Date: February 20, 2024

For this week’s free episode, Riley, Milo, Hussein, and November join special guest Abigail Thorn (@PhilosophyTube) to discuss three disparate incidents in the UK that expose the relentless march of the War on Being Normal. That’s right—three incidents in British politics that show the implacably deranged tenor of anti-trans politics in Britain, a position fully accepted by both major parties and the entirety of the media. And yet its proponents are miserable and convinced there’s a grand conspiracy where every single organisation on earth that doesn’t share 100 percent of their views has been infiltrated by their enemies. This sounds weirdly familiar, but if you say that out loud then Rosie Duffield gets to call an airstrike on you (we don’t make the rules). If you want access to our Patreon bonus episodes, early releases of free episodes, and powerful Discord server, sign up here: https://www.patreon.com/trashfuture *STREAM ALERT* Check out our Twitch stream, which airs 9-11 pm UK time every Monday and Thursday, at the following link: https://www.twitch.tv/trashfuturepodcast *MILO ALERT* Check out Milo’s upcoming live shows here: https://www.miloedwards.co.uk/live-shows *WEB DESIGN ALERT* Tom Allen is a friend of the show (and the designer behind our website). If you need web design help, reach out to him here:  https://www.tomallen.media/ Trashfuture are: Riley (@raaleh), Milo (@Milo_Edwards), Hussein (@HKesvani), Nate (@inthesedeserts), and November (@postoctobrist)

Hello and welcome to this episode of TF. It is Riley and Milo and Hussein and November, for those of you who are just tuning in. I changed my name. I changed my name. I changed my name to a month because I thought it would make me interesting. And you know what? It's worked. That's right. Also, in other news that you may have missed,

if you sign up from, I think, two weeks from now via the Apple Patreon app on your iPhone, it will be more expensive because of Apple fuckery. This is one of the several warnings you will receive. If you want to sign up, sign up differently. If you're already signed up via Apple, you will not be affected. If you're still

in line to vote, stay in line. Go on your web browser to patreon.com slash trashleach. Or use the Google store. Use the Google Google store. Use Netscape Navigator to toddle on over to patreon.com slash trash future.

Just toddle on to AOL. Fire up Ask G. If you really want to be old school, find someone who has a subscription to this show and bring a tape recorder. Ooh. No, do not do that. And buy it off of Inheritance. a subscription to this show and bring a tape recorder. Ooh. Yeah.

No, do not do that. And buy it off of Inheritance. Home taping is killing podcasts. And I want to introduce our guest. It is Abby Thorne once again. Abby, how's it going? Hello, hello, hello. It's nice to be here.

Always a delight to be on TF. So we've got a few news items to cover, one of which is something... Those keep happening, for fuck's sake. Some of which is going to be a little bit of UK politics. That keeps happening too, for fuck's sake. Mostly today what we're going to be talking about is transphobes continuing to be viciously anti-normal. You know what? That keeps happening as well.

More and more. Time is a flat circle I feel strongly. However, before we do that, couple of news items. Number one, finally, Keir Starmer after announcing that he promises to not

have an industrial strategy to respect any kind of mad tax cuts that Jeremy Hunt puts through because he's going to try something new, Jeremy Hunt. He's going to try... There's only one mad Jeremy that Keir Starmer will respect. And let me tell you... Clarkson.

I think what he's doing with that farm is very admirable. It's great for the economy of Oxfordshire and it's great for blokes who enjoy machinery. So what Hunt is doing is he's doing an experiment in governing the British state. This is pushing the frontiers

of what is possible to do. He will be cutting funding to pay for tax cuts to stimulate growth in the economy. Wow, we've never tried that. Well, the thing is, right, this is also the thing that, if we recall,

mere moments ago, under Liz Truss, like, crashed the economy instantly. Oh, no, but they're going to be funded this time because it's going to be tax cuts plus spending cuts. It's going to be great. Don't worry, we're reducing the UK to one cop. He's going to be so busy.

However, however, looking at this, Keir Starmer has stood up and bravely said, the one cop should be a woman. No,mer has stood up and bravely said the one cop should be a woman. See, I interviewed for this and it's nice to have that support. Not that kind of woman. He has stood up and he has bravely said no more energy drinks

for under 16s. That's right. Getting to grips with the real issues of our times. The big problems. There is a monster haunting Britain and that monster exists on every corner. I don't think children can be trusted with wings. Some of them are too young to drive. The thing is, right, like, energy drinks are legitimately terrible for you,

and it is kind of bad, as one of about a million, like, ultra-processed food things, that now you can't be a teenager, or an adult for that matter, anymore, without being extremely caffeinated all the time. But I tend to view this mostly as a return to old labour instincts, but it's like the dead hand of power, because when Blair or Brown did this, they needed a Jamie Oliver figure, right, to pilot this mecha, to drive this thing through. The Jamie Oliver mecha! An Anthony Warhol Thompson.

Yeah, get in the mecha, otherwise Anthony Warhol Thompson will have to do it again. But like, this time, it's just purely off their own bat, it's just like, what can we do to make society a bit more repressive and controlling. Let's just do some nanny state shit. Let's ban kids from drinking horrible energy drinks. Anthony Warhol Thompson's shoplifting Eva. Shoplifting cheese in a mecca?

Giant, stop me now, security guards! It's not really shoplifting at that point. It's kind of escalated to mecca armed robbery. I like to imagine Starmer as a kind of loose Roman emperor, just sort of throwing figs at what he's going to ban next. Too much sugar in figs, you can't be doing that.

If you want an easy to understand, normal metaphor to understand what this means, imagine Starmer as a Roman emperor throwing figs at a Mecca piloted by Anthony Warhol tops. That's right. But a late Roman Emperor. Please subscribe to the Patreon so we can finally get some

carbon monoxide detectors for the studio. But he has to be one of the later ones. You know, I don't mean like Nerva. Yeah, no, we mean like Septimus Severus or something. But you can't spell Nerva without Nerv. Not Alagabalus. This is like, yes, it is

as you say, Nova, it is clearly bad for children to be giving themselves cardiac episodes by drinking sweet things marketed to them. But again, when you think about what the priorities are, what he wants to use

the power of the state to do, it's just to take stuff away. Yeah, and kids aren't only drinking these because they're available. They're also drinking them to take the edge off everything else about being in Britain, being insanely stressful. I was going to say that I'm currently in a stage in my life

where I'm having to work in a shop for a little bit. So I've had my first attempt, my first-hand experience of selling these awful products to children as if i am like a legal drug dealer and like you're right i think in the sense for like you know a lot of these kids just buy these things like and vapes included as well it's because like they're bored and there is literally nothing else to do except for sort of like get high on whatever you can and like in britain that has sort of always been kind of the culminate like what i would sort of define youth culture as just whereas nothing to do

in your shitty little town and so until you have the money to move into london to go buy more expensive drugs you have to sort of deal with what you have right now yeah until you ascend to like and if you're in a shitty little town, your drugs of choice are caffeinated drinks, over-sweet vapes, and like, if some guy has the worst weed you've ever smoked in your life. All of which is to say, I feel like Keir Starmer is really looking after the little man here, and that is like, the guy in your school that will sell you the worst weed that you can imagine.

Well that's the last business left in Britain now. Hussein, I'm imagining you trying to give a lecture on structural causes of malaise to like a 15 year old. You say, no, you don't want this monster. You think you do because of austerity. I had this debate with a child because they wanted to like, they wanted to

buy. It gets worse. It gets worse. It gets worse. I had a debate with a child because. Did you win? Did you win first? No, I lost. They wanted to buy it gets worse it gets worse it gets worse i had a debate with a child because did you win did you win first no i lost they wanted to buy they wanted to buy this cheap energy drink and i was like look dude you want to go for like go get something a bit more premium have you looked at sort of uh the monster fruit punch and they were like you're upselling a child i was like come on you're like nah nah boost is not gonna cut it no the margins the margins in the monster are so much better, please buy that.

Like, you know, please do it. And they didn't do it. And so, are you- I once again lost the debate to a child. But you had the last laugh because you swapped that out for a savoury vape at the last minute. He thought he was getting blue Raz and then boom, a hit of roast chicken. You'd hate a savory energy drink. Just like the red wine flavored Red Bull. Are you saying that you are a kind of energy drink sommelier?

I feel like I did try that as a bit a long time ago and you didn't quite like, it didn't quite hit, but I did buy like a wine glass somewhere for the purpose of when I was bored during lockdown doing the Monster Energy sommelier thing. but to bring it back around right we mentioned earlier that like they're not doing their any of the green investment any of the industrial strategy right the strategy for governing britain is not even the one that was a giveaway to industry that industry wanted because that's adapting to the climate crisis in the way that capital wants

to adapt which is hey here's some investment it's been completely de-risked uh congratulations you go build it yeah literally the the um the inflation recovery act of like here is infinite free money yes to go and like do solar panels please do solar panels and grift it for all your worth like that's the caffeinated children into the mines that's's what I say. The thing is, and I identify with Kiss Dammer a little bit here, because he's too submissive for his own good. He's given them everything that they want, and they're like, yeah, this is perfect.

Cheers. Wait until the next election. And that wait is driving him insane, and so he is just offering more and more things that no one wants or needs, because he's like, please. you know, it's important that you are entirely on side with me. So I'll give you anything, absolutely anything. It's that interrogation strategy where you just don't say anything and you just let Keir Starmer monologue until he's like, shall we abolish the Navy?

I'm open to it. Should we abolish the Navy? I'm open to it. Okay, what if all of the energy drinks were given to the Navy in order to reduce their staff by 50% in order to fund a tax cut on capital gains? How about that? They're just still not saying anything. He's talking to a rubber doll.

One ship left, HMS Relentless. That's right. HMS Monster, which is a rubber doll. One ship left, HMS Relentless. That's right. HMS Monster, which is a tugboat. If you want to talk, though, about a perfect example of the absolute decrepitude of the governance of this country, the disease that

has taken hold of the governing class, you must look no further than the charts describing the price action of ARM Which was like Britain's only important tech company in any sense of the word Yeah, who are they? What do they make? So ARM is a microchip designer Yeah, they make microprocessors, right?

But they design microprocessors and work with everybody else who makes them It's an incredibly important company Yeah, it's sort of like... Okay, so they're a British company, which exists because the University of Cambridge spun off a tech thing, that's part of what the University of Cambridge still exists for, is to create companies like this, as like a... I guess you could fashionably call it a tech incubator, right? Yeah. And long-suffering stand-up comedian podcast. Yeah, exactly.

The two things that Cambridge makes. Yeah, they had this company, ARM, that is tremendously valuable, tremendously strategically important, and what any government that was interested in governing should have done many years ago was park a tank division on

their front lawn and go into the head office and say if you try and move any of this shit out of the UK, we'll fucking kill you. That's like, legitimately, that kind of protectionism is the only valid method of governing here, and what they've done instead is not do that, and surprise surprise, a bunch of it is being offshored, and this has been in the offing for years that arm cannot wait to get out of the uk and into the us so specifically what happened right by the way that

thing of parking tanks on the lawn and saying you will not move the technology out of this of this geographical area is what the us did and again yes yeah you have a shitload of stuff like the defense production that you can use to do this. It worked for their purposes. Now, what happened in 2016 is that after the Brexit vote pushed down, I'm sorry, I'm going to put on my Steve Bray top hat here. After the Brexit vote pushed down the value of sterling, Masayoshi Son walked into ARM and said, hey, I see that you're now selling at a discount because of sterling. I'm going to take out a bunch of loans to buy you and put you in our Saudi investment vehicle. And then it was just allowed to go ahead, right?

It was allowed to go ahead by Philip Hammond and Theresa May to make Brexit look good. How does this make Brexit look good? Because people wanted to invest in a British company. So you're telling me that ARM is based out in Newcastle United? We sold it to the Saudis and now everyone makes fun of them and just chants at them. It's actually owned half by Sports Direct.

What it sort of is, is like if in the early years of the Industrial Revolution we had taken the first steam engine made in Britain and dumped it on cinder blocks outside the factory and gone, does anyone want to buy this and take it out of the country, because I'm sick of looking at it.

It's as though we sold the first steam engine to the Meiji Emperor. Yeah, if you're listening at home and you want an easy-to-understand metaphor, it's as if we sold the first steam engine to the Meiji Emperor. There's a mecha with Anthony Warhol Thompson inside in there. Keir Starmer's got some figs. It's a lot like if Suleiman the Magnificent, right? So the reason that we bring this all this up at the same time is if you are to have, again, it's not saying AI is great, right?

None of that. But if you are to have an industrial strategy, if you do believe that it's important to have AI capabilities and stuff and have lots of data centers and be able to at least, if not fabricate, then at least design chips and be important in the global economy, then keeping that company in the country would be super

important. Just as, for example, would be building wind turbines, adapting to the climate crisis. I have a second piece of national security thing here, which is that, this is going to segue into or tie into a later segment but i will point out that arm is uh like an architecture was co-designed by a trans woman so if you want britain to be a sort of competitive economy in the 21st century two things one you have to stop technology companies from offshoring and two you have to be fucking

nicer to trans women this is what i'm fucking saying about about kim patras because like we are so obsessed in this country with her mic we're so obsessed in this country with like trying to stop children transitioning and it's like kim patras is falling behind in the transition race like we literally are china's trans kids are fucking mogging our trans kids. They literally are! Germany is decades ahead of us. She's like a massive trans pop star. Look at the Americans, they're producing people like Hunter Schafer.

We are falling fucking behind! Britain can only produce such rudimentary transsexuals as November Kelly and Abigail Thorne. And me! What have we got? It's you and me and Paris Lees and Yasmin. It's like the Sten gun in World War II. Like, you know, it was functional. We're still

doing cavalry charges and they're fucking building the A-bomb. I quite like this. I'm sort of proud of this. Our boys have only got access to trans women that are just a couple of pipes welded together. But they're still fighting, Jerry. Yeah. The closest thing I have to patriotism is that my gender is effectively two steel pipes welded together. But they're still fighting, Jerry. Yeah, the closest thing I have to patriotism is that my gender is effectively two steel pipes welded together in a dying country.

That still somehow works. You're the Spitfire of transphobia. That's the nicest thing anyone's ever said about me, thank you. That's alright. Did you change your name to Spitfire? Is it your... Shit, maybe. No, not again, I just got used to the new one.

So, let's let's flip the order around a little bit actually rather than talking about the um ongoing i'd say uh labor party falling apart because it has received a a homeopathic amount of its own medicine yes indeed i want to skip directly uh our core topic, which is... Fucking be nicer to trans women. Indeed, yeah. I've picked three stories, I think, that are, again, will spark some interesting conversation here,

which is just stuff that's happened in the last week or so about just the vicious campaign against being regular, being waged by transphobes. It's back to business as usual. We had, I think, less than 24 hours of people being like, maybe transphobia is bad, actually. And then we were just like, nah. Well, we had the dead kids bad make us feel upset.

That immediately got diverted in ways I've previously talked about into we have to ban kids from being on their phones. And so now we're, as you say, back to business as usual. The next day we had, well, should we just ban them from sports? And then now the NHS are doing another fucking consultation that's just like, should we allow trans children to exist or should we fire them out of a sort of cannon? At the Germans. Well, so, the, but they have V2 trans women.

See, the German dependence on individually impressive but hard to maintain trans women is ultimately going to be their undoing. It was all just cheap Russian gas. These German neo-pussies seized up in the cold of Stalingrad. Whereas the poorly engineeredussian pussy continued to function due to its high tolerance exactly exactly the german the german neo vagina has a lot of like finicky not user replaceable parts that are going to break down in quite a long supply chain whereas the soviet neo vagina doesn't matter that it's cheap it comes out of the factory unpainted there's

two million more of them in siberia moving west yeah to be fair like some some of the nhs near vaginas that i've encountered are fucking phenomenal oh i've i've seen i've seen the binder yeah like alexander kontashnikov presents his new invention you might well be killed at the operation but i i've seen some that are fucking you wouldn't believe it but like it would be nice if they let me have one of these days youussies you people wouldn't believe Literally a thing that can be true Yeah yeah yeah So one of the One of the sort of items

That we're discussing is actually A row A complete again invented Controversy All of these by the two of these three Things are invented controversies We still invent things in this country. Controversies, there are others.

We no longer design... The trunky. We no longer design sort of the single most important commodity for what most people believe will be the global economy going forward. But we do stir up a lot of controversy and pay columnists. We don't even design controversies. We import most of them from the US. Terrible, they closed down the controversy factory in Port Albert.

It's this lend-lease, you know? Basically, there was a proposal put forth in Parliament for people to be able to be not misgendered on death. Yeah, this is... so, basically, of the two documents that the state has in relation to you, the two most important ones are birth certificate and death certificate, right? And so if you don't get a gender recognition certificate to amend your birth certificate, your death certificate will match the sex, it says, on your birth certificate, right? And this is a focus of particular cruelty, right?

Because whenever a trans person dies, if they don't have a gender recognition certificate, which very few of us do, because they're a pain in the ass to get, then the state is sort of like legally obliged to misgender you. Let's mention why it's a pain in the ass to get. Firstly, it's expensive. Secondly, it's humiliating. Thirdly, you have to submit one piece of evidence from every two months that you have lived in what they call your acquired gender. They all have to submit one piece of evidence from every two months that you have lived in what they call your acquired gender they all have to be different they all have to have your name address and a gender title like miz or mister on so just listen imagine if you've been living another one you have to you have to get your spouse's permission or get divorced yes um so listeners imagine if i asked you

to submit one piece of evidence from every two months of the last period of your life for like, I don't know, 10 years. It's a fucking impossible administrative task. And in this case, right, the response to this quite reasonable bare minimum of, hey, maybe we should just at least let's allow dead people to self-identify, basically. They're like, no, it's too dangerous. Yeah, self-identification by the back door is the objection to this. What if the dead start identifying as the living and then we'll be in some kind of Shaun of the Dead situation? This is the thing.

So many of the objections to self-ID just melt into the ether when you're applying them to dead people, right? Because you can't be like what if someone uses this falsely if what they're using it to do falsely is decompose like also no even then i think that's being slightly too generous to them because they also melt into nothingness when you apply them to living people the objection has always been like what if you could like self-id and then enter a women's bathroom which is completely defeated by the fact that you don't need to show your birth certificate to enter a fucking toilet, right?

Wait, what? Oh yeah, I know. You've just been showing it every time. I've been carrying it around for no reason. So like, I think this is what innuendo studios, Ian Downskin would call trying to control the conversation, like what they want. So there's a quote here from Lucy Marsh, who's the spokesperson from the Society for Making Life Worse or whatever it's called.

Some right wing think tank. She says, it's extremely concerning that labor appears to be pushing towards introducing gender self-id through the back door if coroners are allowed to lie on public record about the sex of deceased children this will surely be a slippery slope towards self-id becoming normalized in the nhs getting more and more perverse wanting to know the sex of deceased children it is but they they want us to get tied up in these conversations about who can change the legal documents and when and what the documents allow you to do. While the core lie that transphobia rallies around remains intact, which is that they maintain

that human beings cannot change sex. And like, my response to this is just an absolute, like, Chad meme, yes, we can. Like, you can change sex. It's easy. It's fun to do if other people will fucking get over themselves and let you. and legal documents need to fucking reflect that reality. Yeah, I mean, this is the thing, right? It's not a difficult administrative thing

to do. What it is for transphobic people and institutions is a conceptually difficult thing to do. It is not difficult to make a field editable, but it is difficult to think of that specific field in order to make that change. And yeah, absolutely. So the responses from various MPs and campaigning groups have been saying, as you've been saying, Abby, it's like, oh, this will allow people to self-ID through the back door. Wait, the back mortuary door? Are they concerned about a Night of the living dead situation where they don't respect changing rooms or,

but also again, the idea that no, we must never bend truth to accommodate the extreme and dangerous ideology. And that will allow us to misrecord the sex of dead children. And what I always, what I enjoyed this whole sort of segue into the next sort of news item that we talked about, which was of course the one that was also had a, I think a very sort of good into the next sort of news item that we talked about which was of course the one that was

also had a I think a very sort of good article in the Guardian written about it by Jonathan Liu because I imagine the sports section didn't get the same memo the op-ed section did legitimately yes it's just not it's fully not being accountable to the same couple of people yeah that basically

hey how come this again the policy exchange seems to have declared i don't know kind of war sort of on park run which if you're not um british is an event that's been happening in britain for a while where it's just a group of people running around a park where you don't there's no winners uh they record a finishing time if you want. On an iPhone. It's not rigorous in any sort of way. It's meant to be a bit of fun. It's extremely casual.

And again, I have a similar objection to Abby's about death certificates about this, which is that I don't want to concede the idea that, like, the value of records in professional sport is something that can be threatened by the existence of, like, trans people competing as our gender in the thing. But this is still a case where it doesn't matter anyway, because it's nothing like that. It is purely casual. There is no reason to be rigorous about this, there is no possible way you can expect a loose organization of park runners to try and like be

sequencing people's fucking genomes or whatever the fuck, like the IOC. It's just... What it is is it's an attack on like human dignity of trans people in a way that is completely impractical and intended to like scare you know some quite nice people who like to run in the park into line well also the threat is that um is that government funding from sport england would be withdrawn right yeah i understood that correctly is that if oh this this right-wing think tank like the exchange of of absolute batshit nonsense institution have been like oh if you don't start sequencing everyone's genome and recording a faulty understanding of what biological sex is

to reflect our mad fantasies about it, then we'll withdraw your taxpayers' money. And it's just like... But I really loved it that the news went down to interview the people who do parkrun, and they were all just like, no, actually, I think it's fine. It's just a bit of fun. Yeah, it's a bit of fun. I think it's nice that sports

more inclusive things of this nature. Like, it's a bit of fun. I think it's nice that sport's more inclusive. Things of this nature. Like, you actually ask people about this, and particularly you ask them about this on the level of a sport that they can and do actually participate in themselves, rather than some elite athletics thing where people's instinct is maybe, oh, people work really hard on that, so it's important to preserve the imagined sanctity of it. In this case, it's fully just like, no, it's a bit of fun, therefore why are you asking me about this?

Wait until you hear about their plan to let trans women participate in tossing the pill about with Chugsy. That's really gonna attract some controversy. I mean, it's that, and then trans men are getting the rights to participate in getting shirtless and hitting each other over the back with chairs, which is going to be a huge moment for them. You know, I'm very happy for them. that make perfect sense between columnists and MPs when they talk to one another, actually break containment and reach the world of people with actual concerns doing actual things, again and again, they are met with, at best, confusion, which I find quite heartening.

One of the best determinants of whether or not someone holds transphobic attitudes is whether they say that they know a trans person right like having actual exposure to trans people makes you aware of the fact that we aren't in fact sort of acid blood having monsters and some of us are well yeah of course naturally but like in general i for one two bits of steel welded together in like a shed in Wooden Basset. But no. Dads love her. Yeah, exactly.

So yeah, I think it's this thing where this kind of transphobia flourishes in isolation and like radicalization and watching GV News or being on the fucking internet all the time and those are things that do not correlate very well with going out and like having a run in the park literally touching grass literally what they've done is they've gone to the like all england touching grass association and gone hey have you seen our weird online beefs you have to get in on these or else park park run is like the perfect lab brat for this because it is like the most like head empty pure vibes people who have been on 10 000 hinge dates and think junkyard golf is awesome level of people who aren't online

because fucking shazza and dino right who uh live for curry night at weatherspoons are not habitually driving themselves insane on the internet about trans women you know what he thinks about trans women and he'll go some of them are fit and their end of the lesson you know there's nothing more to it and that's a king and you know this is if you go back to what the policy exchange is saying they say it's important to do this because because they have to say they have to have a fig leaf justification other than just it's important to do this because we are mental their fig leaf justification is it's important to do this because women and girls are now self excluding and our achievements are denied a public record i am women and girls and i self exclude

from shit constantly because of all of this mad bullshit and And also, if you're talking about cis women and girls, this is a time when national legislators, if they see a tall cis woman with a short haircut, will start a panic about her in the press. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, Tilda Swinton, you're on fucking notice. Again, this happens. This happens.

Where, I think it was Klein in the US, who's mentioned in the Guardian article, says, like, it created a national panic because she saw, like, a tall cis woman going and competing in a sport. Oh yeah, I mean, this is insanely sadistic and like very racist, by the way, like, uh, particularly in sort of like professional sport or like there's really like higher levels of sport. You saw like athletes, like former Olympians talking amongst themselves, speculating about which specifically black athletes they thought had like elevated testosterone levels because they were secretly men.

Like Carsten Semenya was like sort of patient zero of this, but like, well, not even. Like, it goes back way before her, but it's absolutely repulsive. And it's so, so strange to see it sort of like, out of, if you like, its element, and now fully in the realm of fun runs. Well, it's already been in school sports as well. Like, there's dads in the US who've had to be removed from, like, school sports games because they just start yelling about how some nine-year-old on the opposite team is trans. And it's like, sorry, you're mad.

You're mad. Well, it is a kind of like a memetic disease. You become unable to perceive the world. Brainworms. The anti-woke mind virus. And the third item is, I think, my favorite one of the three. Yeah. This is in some ways the most depressing because it's the most mental.

Yeah, well, it's the most strain, right? It's the, it is, because this is like, ultimately, most transphobic arguments come down to something like this. Yeah. Which is, this woman has been threatened with a fine by her counsel, whereas the Daily Mail calls them counsel bureaucrats, over posting images of top surgery to her front door, being like, I am making a point. Posting to your front door. Physically posting in her window printing them out like like scars of top surgery and like breast i'm posting this and not in a horny way

yeah yeah but why though well in god's name why do this well uh thank you for asking, November. That's because she wasn't just as well photographs of surgery. It was also an advert for a book by Helen Joyce. Of course. Irreversible damage. No, sorry. That's Abigail Shrier. Allow me to fill you in on who Helen Joyce is. Helen Joyce, former editor of The Economist, caught on camera saying that we need to reduce

the number of trans people who exist in the world. Every single one of these people is a problem for a sane society I think is the exact quote. Even the ones who are happily transitioned. Also much of her book, which is called Trans, When Ideology Meets Reality, is actually lifted from anti-Semitic conspiracy

theorist Jennifer Billick, without attribution which made Jennifer Billick extremely upset and Joyce has repeatedly... Oh, not plagiarizing your antisemitism. Joyce has repeatedly recommended that people go and read Billick's antisemitic screeds. Cool. Additionally, she also posted an anonymous handwritten letter supporting her gender critical views. See, everybody likes me.

Yeah. I regret sending that now. I'm kidding. It's just, it's so strange, and abnormal, and I think, time and again, whenever you get into what we are now sort of like, obliged for impartiality reasons to call gender-critical views, they are so much more in conflict with, if you like, a sane society than the weirdest, most like, outré, insane trans person I've ever seen. Like it's genuinely repulsive, alarming people, you know?

Yeah, because she's sticking up pictures of like, gore, and medical photographs, on like, where the public can see them, and it like it's like what do you think's gonna happen it's a medical procedure like it's like me posting a photo of like mid-hip replacement on my front door and being like this is you are irreversibly like lowering the number of healthy hip bones in the world and also statistically you're more likely to regret that than top surgery that's significantly so yeah also it's like posting a picture of a sort of, as you say, a mid-hip surgery, and then saying, anyway, now that we've all looked at some surgery, would you care to come inside and listen to my views? Or just walk past my front door.

Would you like to have your experience of walking down my street enlivened by seeing a bunch of like scalpel incisions just in your day if i saw that pin to somebody's front door my first thought would be like i'm sorry mrs blogs like someone's playing a nasty joke on you they're trying to scare you by picking this up by somebody's posted something horrible on your door mrs blogs are you okay and then she's like no actually it's the transgenders they're trying to take away all precious girls' fertility. And I'll be like, oh, I'm sorry, you're mad.

Yeah. Don't fuck with a surgeon's mafia or we'll be back. We'll be posting pictures of appendectomies all over your front windows. You don't want to know what the gender surgeon's mafia leaves in your bed if you wrong them. Delightful German pussy. Yeah, but very finicky. To bring all these three

items together. Very fine tolerances. That's what the Berghain piss guy manufactures all day. No, he works in the factory that creates the machines that machine some of the parts in it. He does the tooling.

Once again, didn't see him. I. Once again, didn't see him. I went last weekend, didn't see him. It was a hard week at the pussy machine tooling factory. They didn't talk about it so much, but they did make pussy for the Nazis during the war. No time for piss this week. I'm too focused on machining the tooling

for the urethra machine, ironically. I do see the cruel, cruel irony in this. Not such a cruel irony, I suppose. Not as I'm into women's piss anyway, so I guess it's academic. Is he not? Is he genuinely sexist about piss? Well, he's in the men's toilet. Can he tell?

Oh, yeah. Are the toilets of Berkheim even gendered? No, he's by the urinals. Anyone can use the urinals. Okay. But I guess it's typically men. I'm gonna need to go to Burkine and do some field research in this. I'm here to do two things. I'm here to have

alarming lesbian sex in a crowd of bewildered gay men. And I'm here to find out what the piss guy's deal is about female piss. Bringing in the field recorder. But then having it taped over just doing a blind taste test can you tell the difference remember what I said about the

weirdest trans women not being as weird as TERFs well it's true though does my piss taste like an HEV new thing to be insecure about getting piss dysphoria pissphoria episode title New thing to be insecure about, getting piss dysphoria. Piss-phoria! Fuck!

Yeah, yeah. Uh, episode title. Anyway, but to bring all three of these different stories, just from the last week, by the way, just from the last week, all together... Being trans in Britain is like, you wake up and some new shit like this has just dropped. Yeah. And you still have to go to work, you know, or do whatever the fuck you were gonna

do with your day. We all have a sanity meter it's draining fast yeah you're losing d6 every day but to bring it i think back all these things together these three items is in every case these are people defending something that isly it was always very Indefensible and what is As it gets pushed further and further And further as it sort of Steadfastly takes positions against like For example we have to guard Against dead people

Invading like women's spaces Or like we have to make We have to install a kind of Penis detector on just like The bit of fun run through the park the penis detect the inflatable penis detector arch at the london or like i am wallpapering my house in surgery photos and the council cannot stop me in all cases this is just a relentless commitment to being as weird and off-putting as possible. Yeah, and I think the thing is, like, I go back and forth on the, like, be normal

thing that we do sometimes, right, because like, I like abnormality and I think we should make room for more abnormality in public life, but I think it is cruelty, specifically, right, and I think the thing that people are responding to when someone from Sky News comes to their park and is like, do you think we should be like pulling down everybody's shorts to figure out what they've got going on under there? They're mostly experiencing that as a kind of strange, cruel thing to do, right? And I think most people want society to be kinder, and that is something that has been rigorously opposed by every political tendency in britain why i was i was also going to ask like is this and you know you you would like know more

about this than i would but my sort of feeling from the outside is that the sort of weird behaviors that seem to emerge come out it seems like they become weirder as they sort of realize that the political energy behind them is very much on their side and so like in order to sort of like maintain or in order to sort of maintain the fantasies that like trans people are this sort of existential danger you know you can sort of begin with like you know the the sort of like this sort of you know the bathroom bullshit is stuff that like pretty much every british political party has sort of taken on as being like you know receptive to and so in order to sort of maintain that movement of some kind it has to become weirder and it has to become much more invasive because how else are you going to sort of like present yourselves as being

underdogs or being like the misheard or, you know, the sort of confluence with these sort of like anti-woke movements and their whole, you know, we are sort of the malign class and no one listens to us. Whereas like the government and the opposition parties do very much listen to you. In fact, if anything, they are too receptive to you. They don't refuse to meet with gender critical groups. Yeah, I think that's very perceptive. Like, and I think like any radical group, there is always this drive, as you say, to be more extreme, to hype each other up and to get more attention.

And it feels like this is sort of going to be like an interesting long-term trend to observe. Interesting also being meaning horrific, to the degree that like, it seems like the political parties kind of are receptive to the TERFs and everything on the basis, partly on the basis that like, well, if you listen to them now, then like, maybe like you can sort of quell their extremities, like you can sort of contain them. But the reality is, no, when you listen to them, they become more extreme. The whole nature of their movement is one that demands its followers to become more and more extreme to the point where there are sort of... I don't know whether there is, within TERF movements, there are people like, oh guys, I don't know whether we're sort of being a bit being a bit nuts on this one, or... Yeah, this is the thing, this is...

It happens sometimes, and what happens is that the movement very quickly, like, internally cauterizes those. And this is absolutely a thing about radical groups like this, is that, like, if you do express doubt, you are like very, very quickly, like, forced back into line or forced out, right? And so you see this happen, and you see people get de-radicalized this way. But just in general, in terms of the treadmill of things getting more radical, this is something that trans activists warned people about, including the people in both parties. You hate to hand it to people, but there were trans people in the Conservative Party telling the Conservative Party that this was going to get out of control. And

neither party listened. No one, more or less, listened, and this is the result. This is where we're at now. It's going to be that much harder to eradicate. And it becomes more conspiratorial as well, because as... If they say they want to debate and examine the evidence and so on, but the more they realize the evidence simply does not support their positions the more they have to say oh well like the reason every major health care body in the world internationally is now condemning nhs england is because they've been infiltrated by trans activists and like the the reason that you know every think tank who like knows what the fuck they're talking about says that we're mental is because you know they're secretly woke or whatever well stonewall is they've all been

taken over by stonewall and like and i just you know they're being funded by jewish billionaires it's not that people disagree with us it's like you know our opposition is secretly being bought and eventually you arrive in in a place where you're just like saying the shit like the un is hamas because like you've reached that same sort of point where it's like everyone can see you're full of shit but you have to like double down and say it's some kind of fucking conspiracy. I'll use that, in fact, to transition to our next segment. Thank you.

Which is something I did. I wanted to put first. A process that could take a few years. Well, which is, of course, before we do a quick, we'll see if we have time for a quick article at the end. But I think it's worth talking about something I alluded to earlier, which is that the moment Keir Starmer receives, I would say, a modicum of any media coverage less than fawning, then he completely falls apart and starts looking very weak and feckless. Yeah, I mean, this is another example of things that people told the Labour Party would happen and things that the Labour Party did not listen about. So what has happened is there are a number of by-elections for, again, you listening in the States or outside of the UK, where Labour candidates had been secretly recorded

at what was very, very strongly referred to as a community cohesion meeting last October, where again, recorded those recordings given to the right-wing press, and then just allowed to be released months later. Going through to increasingly mask off Islamophobe and anti-Semite Guido Fawkes. Yeah, who essentially, where people were at this meeting. If he wants to sue us on either of those, I have seen the tweets he posted and then deleted where he said that Labour was trading unsophisticated Muslim votes for sophisticated Jewish ones. At this meeting were multiple prospective parliamentary candidates, including two, one called Azar Ali and one called Graham Jones. And this was all happening while

mass resignations were occurring in the party regarding the stance on Gaza and so on. What first came out was Ali, a candidate in the by-election in Rochdale, who basically said that it was recorded saying Israel, in a quite literal sense, wanted the events of October 7th to happen so they could have a free hand in Gaza. And my understanding is that this wasn't meant in the kind of like, Hamas is beneficial to Netanyahu politically kind of way, but more like the stupid Facebook post conspiracy theory kind of way. Yes. Yeah.

Like false flag shit. Right. That's what he was alleging. And then this other guy, Graham Jones, was then a recording of him came out the next day. Again, all via Guido Fox just being frustrated with Israel, which in the States is being something Biden claims to be every day. Yeah. Calling Netanyahu an asshole.

In this case, he said fucking Israel, I think. Yeah. That's it. Yeah. And then he also said that he also said that people that Britons who go fight in the IDF should be locked up, which is, I believe I believe kind of the law but kind of not based on some like loopholes it's not but largely

because we want it not to be any case and what I think is very instructive is that both of these guys are on the right of the party Graham Jones especially I mean Graham Jones is an interesting character he has let's say Very pro

The Saudi bombing campaign He's the one guy who was like pro the Saudi bombing campaign In Yemen Yeah, the member for Riyadh Central No, he's a member for Neom North Neom North is weirdly a Lib Dem Constituent Lib Dem's winning here

It's a very thin constituency, but a very long one. Miam Alam. So basically, right, it's yeah, he's like, this is someone who's on the right of the party, right? Someone who supported Owen Smith, right? This is... Sorry, I just remembered Owen Smith. He loves a frothy

coffee. Yeah, so... Damn, simpler times. So these are two guys on the right of the party. Let's look at like the defenses that first come out, right? Which is, number one, the defense for Azar Ali from Nick Thomas Simmons, who's a frontbencher, said

look, those comments are totally wrong. However, we should look past them as the counsellor has clearly only fallen for an online conspiracy theory. Oh, okay, so he's just stupid. Well, we should look past them, as the counsellor has clearly only fallen for an online conspiracy theory. Oh, okay, so he's just stupid. The quote it says is, he fell for an online conspiracy theory and that does not represent his view. Which is philosophically incredible that he both fell for it and doesn't believe it. He said it and also fell for it, but also that's not his view.

He has perfect cognitive dissonance about it. He both believes and does not believe this. It's clearly true, but I don't believe it. He's a blindside vampire. I can't believe it's not Israel. He believes it and it's true, but it's not justified. Our candidate is just simply, is very easily tricked. He did not think he was espousing that view. He thought he

was saying a magical incantation that would bring a beanstalk out of the ground. This is not a political view. And again, not to make the obvious point, which we're going to hammer home for the rest of this segment, but like people got kicked out of the party for a lot less than this. Yeah. Very recently, in relation to accusations of antisemitism. People got kicked out of the party for a lot less than this. Yeah. Very recently in relation to accusations of anti-Semitism. Yeah. Yeah.

This is, yeah, like Facebook likes 10 years ago. Yeah, exactly. You know. And, you know, again, this is, everyone rushed to his defense until, again, more leaks came out about him talking about like quote-unquote the media triple brackets oh dear this is again this is what the implication what he was saying and then they were okay sued for plagiarism because that was someone else's theory so then we um jennifer billick furious so he's ripping me off just one anti-semite everyone else is a plagiarist that's right just no original think. Just really lazy.

No. No. Right. And then, of course, he gets disassociated and so on and so on. Now. Although it's now too late

for Labour to unendorse him, which is sort of hysterical because Keir Starmer is being forced to endorse him against his will. Yeah. So is he in it or not? Is he the candidate or not? Yeah, he's running as a Labour candidate. Well, Keir Starmer is both endorsing and not endorsing will. Yeah, so is he in it or not? Is he the candidate or not? Yeah, he's running as a Labour candidate.

Well, Keir Starmer is both endorsing and not endorsing him. Yeah. And also, number one, I do hope he wins just so I can start really influencing. I want to own one member of parliament with Facebook ad buying. That's all. Just one extremely gullible MP you can sway into sort of anything. I think we can get a full import ban on natural wine. I think we can do it.

Yeah, just say that it's causing chemtrails. Yeah. But Graham Jones, the other guy who's involved here, who, again, just was clearly very frustrated with Israel in this meeting in the last October, right? Why would anyone be frustrated with Israel in the current climate? I don't know why. Again, we've reported what he said.

That's all that's been reported. Again, being hoist by your own petard, right? Because it's something that you only have to be frustrated about privately if you don't have the spine to be frustrated about it publicly. But again, he is a very, very weird guy. His own electoral history is full of...

His history in Parliament is mostly about getting revenge against another guy from his town who he hated. I do love this. It's very amusing. Or this guy, Peter Britcliffe. He just constantly gets it. Peter Britcliffe. He just constantly gets it. Peter Britcliffe was his conservative opponent, and mostly they just got in side yard disputes with one another. It's very, very amusing.

Harassment. Yeah, essentially. It's very, very amusing. So it's sort of like the in-the-loop thing, where you are doing consequential about like foreign policy in the world and also in a dispute about a guy's garden wall instead of like suburban yeah this is this is um reported in the lancashire telegraph like i was just looking into this is that like when he was replaced by his ancient enemy in 2019 uh the at the end of this guy brickclcliffe Then went to a nightclub Wearing a picture with Graham Jones' face

Printed on it They fucking hate each other Replaced by his ancient enemy The Horned King Won the by-election I mean, Lancashire elections are kind of Not too far off from that, I suspect He's a fucking Yorkshireman

He went to a nightclub Wearing a picture of Graham Jones' top surgery as a stark warning to other potential parliamentary candidates. Graham Jones has got a serious pair of Bolton's these days. It's so funny. These two guys have hated each other since 2010.

I mean, I love this. Anyway, so getting back to it though, right? Joe, yes, weird guy. Weird guy caught on hot mic being like fucking Israel. Yeah, weird, but least weird thing. Yeah. Ed Balls then goes on TV and says,

let's stand back and get some facts. Graham Jones, he's not a Corbettite, he's not hard left, and he's not anti-Israel. You could all imagine saying, fuck America. No right winger could ever be anti-Semitic. You could all imagine saying, fuck America. No right-winger could ever be anti-Semitic. That's a tendency exclusively of the left. That's interesting because he's kind of given

the game away there, isn't it? Because not Corbynite, not hard left, absolutely not anti-Israel. There's a kind of non-sequiturs, but you can see the sort of associative reasoning taking place. Yeah, the meaning there is not fair game for these sorts of attacks. And you've been seeing briefing from within the Labour Party that has been sort of like, frustration at, you know, the Board of Deputies,

or the Jewish Labour Movement, I'm not sure if it is the Jewish Labour Movement, but like, against like, certain Jewish organisations that have been like, publicising these and critiquing these things as evidence of antisemitism, being like, no, you're not supposed to do it to us. Right. And, and sort of like taking what was an unacceptable line under Corbyn of this is clearly pure factionalism is completely baseless and exists only to kind of discredit the Labour Party. And I simply go, interesting. When did that come in?

You know, when did that start being a thing that it was possible to say, you know? Seems like you've constructed this incredible petard here. Yeah, nice petard. It's as if you've made this very nice bed, and yet you find yourself increasingly reluctant to line it. As it being hoisted, you might look down and notice that this petard is hauntingly familiar. My God. Now, my own petard.

And you come back, and yet now, the demand is, well, everybody at this meeting should be suspended and investigated. Yeah, because it's running out of control, again. Because you've had this kind of factional weapon that bears very little overlap with real antisemitism, catches some of it and catches a lot of other stuff, including more or less any criticism of Israel, however wingnut or however evidence-based, and yeah, now it's simply rolling through the Labour Party going, okay, well, anybody who even

dares to critique Israel or the IDF, or Zionism as an ideology, is inherently anti-Semitic and has to go. And it's only a matter of time until they find something Stalmers said in the past, and that's going to be a funny moment. Well, this is what Jewish left-wing activists have warned about as well. There's a fantastic activist called April Rosenblum who wrote a pamphlet called The Past Didn't Go Anywhere, where she actually talks about what are constructive ways to criticise the actions of the Israeli government, and what are ways that do give cover to anti-Semites.

Because there are some people who are just really anti-Semitic who will host a meeting, and the meeting's called Free Speech on Israel, and then you turn up and you're like oh everyone's doing hitler salutes right that that sort of thing does fucking happen there is anti-semitism on the left like genuinely and like people do not not only just like nazis using it for cover but also there are people who are left-wing genuinely and who are also genuinely anti-semitic but then like what april rosenblum cautions is that like the effect of this situation is is that it becomes impossible to criticize or even really talk accurately about what the Israeli government

are really doing. What Rosenblum, if you're interested to know, what she recommends is just being as specific as possible. So rather than, for instance, an example of a bad way of doing it would be to say, oh, Israel are controlling the US government, right? That's very clearly bad anti-semitism territory there more specific would be to say like apac gives this amount of money to these politicians to support these policies which i disagree with like the more specific you can be she says um as a jewish left-wing activist then the more helpful

and constructive the conversation becomes name and clp please abby CLP, please, Abby. None, proudly. Anyway, anyway. To bring this back around, of course, to Starmer, before we sort of finish off, is that what he has done at every stage of this is he has allowed himself, he has allowed selective leaking. He has tolerated two instances of heinous anti-Semitism,

and yet he refuses to apologize, and so he simply must resign. And he minimized them as well. Yeah. Briefing against them. It's time to go. It's simply unacceptable in this day and age for a leader of the Labour Party to traffic in such sort of reprehensible racism, you know?

What he of course did was he allowed himself to be basically just bounced into seemingly random reactions to just like selective leaks to the right wing press which of course will never happen when he's in government ever that will never happen again it's just the begging thing again you know it's just like please he drank from the puddle yeah

he looked at the right wing press right he looked at these I get leaks which were I get recorded months ago, but just released now, right? And clearly released one after the other. Yeah, kept in stock, you know, so like drip feed these out. The key takeaway from this whole sorry debacle

is that I'm not gay. I think I've made that very clear in all of my statements upon this matter. And I think I consider it now closed. Well, look, drinking from the puddle is actually a really good demonstration of what children can do when they're banned from buying energy drinks.

True. Yeah. I have a question. Anyway, there's no caffeine in the puddle. If this was recorded months ago, why has it only come out now? Genuine question. A cynical leverage of it for political expedience. But what does it get the people leaking it to do that now?

Well, labour's popular now, basically. Yeah, it's in the rainy day Day Fund. Like, any sort of, like... Yeah, transferring audio is also really hard these days. Yeah, they had a bunch of attempts. No, what it is is that, like, any sort of, like, political operator of this caliber has a filing cabinet full of stuff to just drop as needed, and this is in the, like, the Rain for uh you need to like sort of throw a grenade into the labor camp there's a huge drawer with a padlock on it that says kirstarmer tasteful nudes which they've not even cracked open yet anyway anyway that's about an hour and so probably

all we have time for today however i would like to thank our guest abby for coming and returning to us today uh i would like to remind everybody that there is a Patreon. You can subscribe to it for $5 every month. You fucking can. A reminder, it will be more expensive if you do it from the iOS app, from inside the app, from March. You have to cut out Tim Apple, the middleman. Otherwise, you'll pay more. And also, there is going to be a live show in London on March the 13th.

Yeah, that's right. Backyard Comedy Club. Yeah, that's right. Backyard Comedy Club, where they do Comedy Unleashed. Yeah, it should be fun. Is it inside? Because, listeners, every time I've gone to a TF live show, Milo always books it. And Milo, you know I love you very much, but you don't understand that it's cold outside I mean between the bridges is inside it's just inside a tent

no it's not the same as outside it is different it's not a tent it's just gonna end this little Socratic dialogue a tent is still it's still inside it's just I agree that it's not a tent. I'm just going to end this little Socratic dialogue. A tent is still inside. It's just I agree that it's not as well insulated as conventional buildings. The last time I went to a TF live show, I was too cold to laugh. The funniest thing to do would be for Nate to cut off the audio right as the crescendo of people arguing about the tent happens. Okay. I have plugs.

Not a tent, it's a new build. I'm excited to be on the same stage that graham lennon has been it is it is inside it's in a building okay good thank god listeners i wrote a film it's about two women dealing with the trauma they got from a bad relationship and they're both vampires because their exes count dracula it's called dracula's ex-girlfriend i'm flying to la to film it uh in less than a week. And that will be out on Nebula at some point when we finish editing it. That's my plug. I'm going to be in a fucking movie that I wrote that we're filming in Hollywood about vampires. It's going to be sick. So look out for that to be released.

That's right. And if you're in LA, check it out. Anyway. If you're in LA, just drive around. It's one of the key cinematic pleasures of the city you live in. You might see Abby, you might not. But most importantly, you'll have a nice drive. I am going to look, because they have to give me temporary tattoos and also nail extensions for the duration of the filming.

So I'm going to look quite frightening. If you see me around, I will look unfamiliar. You'll think I've gone mad. Okay. All right. All right. Thank you very much. Come see me on tour in Australia. Oh, unfamiliar. You'll think I've gone mad. Okay. All right. All right. Thank you very much. Come see me on tour in Australia.

Oh, goodness. You've got your stuff, too. You know, I've got my website. Come see, like, three Kill James Bond live shows. Yeah. There are three of those. Good. Oh, my dress for the second one arrived today.

8th, 9th, and 10th of March. The 8th is sold out. There are, like, a couple of tickets for the 9th left, and the 10th there are a decent few left. So book those on killjh1.com. Also, the outfits get more slutty as we go, so you do want to be there on the final night, which is also the night when we get to party afterwards. Also true. I am going on April 6th to Malahunta at Fould. Come see me there. What else have we got in our calendars? Let me crack this shit

open right here. I've got a driving lesson on the 22nd. That is your worst nightmare. You don't want people talking to you in real life. That's such a wrong chess move from you.

Why are you... Okay, alright. This plug segment has gone on for one million years. Let's go. Bye, everybody. Bye.