TRASHFUTURE - Prime Suspect ft. Oobah Butler

Episode Date: October 24, 2023

Our pal Oobah is back to talk about his new documentary on C4, "The Great Amazon Heist." Basically it consists of several elaborate ruses foisted on Amazon, exposing cracks in their edifice, and also the Coventry Amazon Black Site. Medical Aid for Palestinians: https://www.map.org.uk/ If you want access to our Patreon bonus episodes, early releases of free episodes, and powerful Discord server, sign up here: https://www.patreon.com/trashfuture  *STREAM ALERT* Check out our Twitch stream, which airs 9-11 pm UK time every Monday and Thursday, at the following link: https://www.twitch.tv/trashfuturepodcast *WEB DESIGN ALERT* Tom Allen is a friend of the show (and the designer behind our website). If you need web design help, reach out to him here: https://www.tomallen.media/ *MILO ALERT* Check out Milo’s upcoming live shows here: https://www.miloedwards.co.uk/live-shows Trashfuture are: Riley (@raaleh), Milo (@Milo_Edwards), Hussein (@HKesvani), Nate (@inthesedeserts), and Alice (@AliceAvizandum)

Hello everyone and welcome to this free episode of TF. It is my great pleasure, Riley. Yes. To bring you on this free one, Britain's number one piss salesman and TV prankster and former guest of the show a couple of times. It's Uber Butler. Hello, hello, hello, hello. Thanks for having me. I got a piss. You were like selling at door to door and what we do but let you in and vote you in. We were the only ones who would let you in. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, you know, I've been doing the rounds.

One of those like- I'm trying to see case full of this. One of those like old people remember when Facebook groups is like, remember when the piss man still had a car he would haul door to door. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, the piss and jog man. He'd come round, he'd say any piss. You're back when you were just a twinkle in the piss man jug man. He'd come round, he'd say any piss.

You're back when you were just a twinkle in the piss man's eye. Remember when the piss man was hard. What's it like being Britain's number one piss salesman and child knife procure? Yeah, it's kind of fun. It's nice being of moved on from shed man to piss man. It's, you know, as you get older, you just don't know whether you're gonna be able to achieve your dreams. And yeah, look at me. We're asking you today.

We're asking you today. We're asking you today. Can then have it all. Can they have piss and a shed? I suppose my first question is, is the piss and the, are the piss and the knives like related? Like are you arming the country's children? Yeah, to apprend shoplifters.

I'm running county lines on there. Yeah. Yeah. And what's more is Amazon is actually quite culpable in enabling the county lines that hit the straight. Yeah. Yeah, to say that I thank them for making my product abundant and plentiful.

Because you know what, you were a hard working door-to-door piss salesman and then you used the platform Amazon offered you to be able to offer a piss to the world. And I pro small business after all. Now, that's the one thing. That's the one thing. People think the violence is inherent to the piss trade, but really, it's only the prohibition of piss that drives it underground in its hands because of the risk. If we see criminalized piss, you'll be out of a job.

No P-Ginary must be really difficult for you. So, if you wonder why we're talking about Uber being some kind of a strange, like a piss NPC, it's because he has just released a new documentary that is now streaming anywhere that you can find. It's Golden. It's on Channel 4. It is all about how you have, you say pranked, but you could also say kind of found various faults in Amazon's processes that will allow someone who meant harm, for example, to, I don't know, sell piss to an unsuspecting customer who allow children to order knives.

You've got taken to an Amazon black site at one point. We're going to talk all about your documentary, The Great Amazon Heist, Gang Rendition, so an Amazon Blackside, but no one was in, so they just dropped you over the fence and left you out in the rain. So, but before we get, of course, into our back half Amazon Chicanery, we have been keeping our ear to the ground when it comes to Peter Teal and his, let's say, newfound role in federal employment. Yes, so this is interesting because it depends. This is entirely sourced to a guy who disappeared

from the internet for a few years. Do we remember a guy called Chuck Johnson or Charles C. Johnson? Sort of big, big red bids. So he was this like long time opportunist. He gorka published this story, but him having like shit on the floor at a party in college and he sued them for like, you know, stupid amounts of money. Um, but yeah, he's, he's been sort of a part

of any number of like, uh, like alt-right sort of like neon artsy things. Um, and every single one of them, he has kind of imploded through his own hubris and like interpersonal strangeness. And then he disappeared off the mat for a while. And it turned out what he was doing was being the silent partner in Clearview AI, which is this like, you can get into some really,

some really dark shit with this. Like in a, in lately of this parish Clearview AI. Exactly, yeah. And that's a company with some deep and abiding links to Neo-Nazis. And he posted on Facebook in like 20, I think it was like 2017,

that he was like developing, he was working on algorithms to deport all the immigrants. It's a real glove up, isn't it from shit? Yeah. A legit shissing. Yeah. Very shit? Yeah. Oh, yeah. The alleged shissing. Yeah. Oh, very alleged shiss. Yeah, my favorite Chuck Johnson details, that he tried to, he fabricated a story against

Bob Benendez to try to smear real. Why would you need to? He tried to frame the most obviously corrupt, senator for corruption. But like, yeah, if you remember him from Twitter back in the day, he got suspended for like threatening to kill Dorae McCassan and then Elon remember him from Twitter back in the day, he got suspended for like threatening to kill Doraimakessen and then Elon gave him his account back after Elon got red pills last year. But like, if you remember him from back in the day,

one of the things that he was sort of characteristic of him was, he loved being melodramastic, he loved pretending to be a spy, he loved pretending to be a cop, and he loved hinting at all of these things and he loved being like, I was like, yeah, and Maul's a lec. Exactly, exactly. Yes.

Oh, but we have, so what we have in this story essentially, like Peter Teal being an FBI informant, codename by the way, the philosopher. Nice. Chuck Johnson's FBI informant codename was genius. This may well turn out not to be through at all. Nice. Chuck Johnson's FBI informant code name was genius. This may well turn out not to be true at all.

First of all, because the man, like, I don't, he's not, and I don't know if FBI agents have that level of irony within them. Um, but, but like, maybe he got his dream job. I don't know. And once again, for like the fifth time with a bunch of alt-right people, Chuck Johnson is blowing up the spot because he can't be normal. And this interpersonal dipshissering is maybe the greatest ally we have against left is a good thing the left don't have those problems at all. Lockstep on the left, baby. In 2021, the teal began providing information to the FBI on a number of things, namely, other

people in the Silicon Valley world who were vaguely let's say of interest to federal intelligence. And that this was part of Teal's realizing that, oh shit, the MAGA being associated with the MAGA movement has been getting some people also federal informants in jail. I'd better distance myself from them immediately. Yeah. So now I hope, I mean, obviously the point of Chuck Johnson saying this is to try and like burn teal to like anyone he's ever worked with and he's given money to a lot of people. And so if the hope is that like what he's done is all of those teal bucks were reported

directly to the FBI and you know, he has actually been been dropping a dime square, so to speak. Then great, it destroys deal and Johnson is very happy. What's interesting to me though is the extent to which, if this is true, it reveals a kind of working of the intelligence community that we've only seen hinted at. You can see it in bits of it in the like Epstein stuff, where it's like any time any of these people are in trouble for anything, they are able to make out some kind of like dubious intelligence value to whatever they're doing.

They'll give up something we know not what. And in the hopes that it kind of gets the heat off them and maybe it works. So in this case, this is reading from the business insider article where this came out. In a statement prepared for the Senate Judiciary Committee, Jonathan Booma, the FBI agent, and T.O. was warning. He said, you should buy a house when I was your age, it was easy. Said that F.D.I. headquarters had closed most value and involvement these days.

Closed is most valuable human sources, including genius, Johnson, who had reported on far right figures involved with planning the attack on the capital. Johnson told the insider that genius was a CHS code name, which insider was able to independently verify. Great. Perfect. He must have either, so either Jonathan Booma, very, very good sense of humor or easily buffle, load by, you know, six dollar worth. Yeah. I mean, this is the thing though. I do appreciate that,

like, I don't know what the consequences of this are going to be. I don't think that like Peter Taylor is going to get like shanked in prison as a consequence of this, but I do appreciate the kind of mutually assured destruction of being like, I am a he's a fed everyone who's ever taken money from him is a fed that's you know It's very helpful well, I'll care I carry on his stabbed in prison and finds himself covered in someone else's blood Johnson said that he was exposing Teals work as a source in retribution for what Johnson proceeds to be bad decision making by the founders fund Teal's venture capital firm citing that he felt betrayed that Teal did not invest in Johnson's own startup IT. This is the thing, like he's just like any other tech guy, which is he had one successful pitch, which was we're gonna create clear for you AI and it's gonna like allow the death

squads to kill all the immigrants, right? That was his explicit plan for that and Peter still picked it up. And then he just kind of fucked around thinking He was convinced that he had some kind of entrepreneurial genius and was then like why aren't any of my other star stuff ideas getting traction? There's a million guys like that in Silicon Valley. He was gonna make the right wing metaverse. His one before this was something called We Searcher, which was gonna be like an alt-right crowdfunding thing. They did a bunch of planning for the Gorka lawsuit

and the Slack channel for that. And that collapsed too, because again, because Peter Till didn't want to put the money into it. So it's just this weird kind of right wing miniature terrarium version of Silicon Valley where you have all of the same stuff, but there's one hedge fund instead of a bunch of VCs. Yeah, we search you got hemmed up in a trade, Mark suit, because that's what the people

who work on the Jonathan Ross show doing the story lines are called. Johnson also told insider that he felt betrayed he didn't invest his own startups, which he expected teal to do in exchange for introducing him to boomer, saying that he told teal that by offering him an FBI offering the FBI wind it with his contacts with foreign governments he could demonstrate his loyalty to the United States. And that basically he and then he then made clear to teal that extravagant wealth no longer affords the safety that it used to. I told him to join up or get crushed and then what clearly happened right is like I I blackmailed you fair and square and you

didn't offer me a prop I'm going to the practice was very rude you know it's a not reciprocate you know you got a kindred spirit I like sky I don't know about this guy. Yeah. This is the you I But what I like most about Chuck Johnson though as a my lawyer comment that this is an American Jan Marseilleck is quite I think fantastic Is to think like this is someone who again likes being a spy and romanticizes it But because he's an American spy working for an American

intelligence, most of what he is able, this would be true for British as well, most of what he is able to do is post and wine. He posts and wines and tattles. That's all he's, God, Marseilleck, he has, he wrote a sub-stack, justifying why he burned teal, and it is exactly as weepy and self-justifying and self-aggrandizing as you might expect Which I'm gonna read from a little bit now, but this is just like think keep hold the image of Jan Marselleck Like waving around the recipe for novichock to whoever would would look at it and like putting on so much Gucci gear in Libya That like the GRU guys he was with was like

you're gonna get killed if you wear that much fancy equipment. Guy from the GIE being like too much Gucci people will think you're Chetchen. Right? Hold that in your mind while we read this. Johnson wrote this. I worked on new technologies, especially satellites, and genetics and facial recognition and on sovereign wealth funds and foreign interference in American elections,

I met with and recruited sources for the FBI. I did this at great expense, both financial and stress, and I enjoyed every bit of it. Family members of mine had served in the intelligence community as undercoverers, and I suppose you could say I wanted to prove my medal. I liked the danger of it. Unfortunately, I was a dungeon.

What was Mention's fucking mold bug gonna do to this fat cunt with a pubic beard? Yeah, I love the idea of being like tortured to death by Peter Teal, like he finds out he was spying on him and he's like, you know, he's got like a fucking basement cell up with like a blood gutter in the world. Yeah, fucking like Gavin McKinnis is gonna like beat the shit out of you and out of reflexes,

you just start naming serial brands. Yeah, like the, what the danger of tattling to your own government? What fucking danger? Unfortunately, is he working pro bono? Why has he got financial pressure? I don't get it. Yeah, I mean, it expenses. You just like any job, you know.

Hmm. Unfortunately, I was unceremoniously terminated as a confidential human source, along with other sources handled by special agent Jonathan Booma, because my work was quote, too good. Pfft! Pfft! Bond your ass! Alright, this is great though, because it just reveals unintentionally a little bit about that

rule, how that relationship works. This is a man who was desperate for this status of being like an undercover informant. And this one bored FBIA agent is just like, you know, if you didn't expect so many like avocado toasts to your beer, it's just like not really paying that much attention. You kind of get the sense nothing is really,

like nothing useful is going on intelligence wise here. Well, all this man wanted was an exploding pen and they wouldn't give it to him. Yeah. And they gave you a mask like the recipe for Nova Choc. This is the thing. You have way better returns doing this in Russia than you do in the US. Honestly, you have to read the first four pages of the recipe for Nova Choc of them reminiscing about the time they were watching Swan Lake before he gets to the actual ingredients. So keep in mind what you said about this just being very

bored and he bitch being humored by this FBI agent because the next line of this sub-stack post takes on a very different tone if you keep that in mind. I take this slide as a high compliment especially as I was I was assured material I provided went directly to the president. Yeah, I'm gonna put this in the president's in, yeah, makes this kind of sound as it goes in, it's fine, that's normal. Wait, is this Biden or Trump at this point? Because there are two very different kinds of not reading it. Yeah.

Because like Trump's not reading these, like, what is this? Some kind of loser, I don't know, not interested in his bite. And he's like, what? But the thing is, what should have worked if Trump thought about this guy at all? It would be because the most lured detail is the one that sticks in Trump's mind,

whether it's true or not, to Trump, he would be the floor-shithing guy forever. You're a disgrace. Very, very fat guy. Shit's anywhere. I so big he misses the toilet. That's what I'm hearing. Very, very fat guy. Shit, it's anywhere. I have so big emissures at toilet. That's what I'm hearing.

It's a piece of a shing. He did know, he claims to have known Trump and worked on the Trump transition team. I wouldn't be surprised because we're on fucking any one of these things. So during the time, during that time, I recruited several human sources, including the philosopher, aka Peter Teal.

I did this because I was instructed to find the FBI to help deal with compromised billionaires, especially in the tech world. There's a lot. And indeed, many venture funds effectively double as fronts for foreign intelligence, like hearing this for the first time. Yeah. For example, Jonathan Bouma and I stopped Elon Musk from giving billions in inflated stock to Igor Kurganov, a per Russian poker player packed for the Chinese mob. Okay, that's really, if you could have got Elon Musk's legs broken by the Chinese mob, why did I take that from? I love a guy, even per Ganov Russian poker player, backed by the Chinese mob.

How does that person meet in a character in a Dan Brown book? You play like one hand that goes really well and like a guy calls you across the bar and is like, Hey, do you want to work for the Chinese mob like? Yeah against Thai Chinese Lashifra. Fout the founders fund continued to back a series of con men rather than be a responsible venture firm to which I have to say rather than be a responsible venture firm, to which I have to say, Adryson Horowitz has never backed a card man. Yeah.

Softbeck has never backed a card man. I mean, there's a lot of sort of like, axe to grind with Elon Musk in this post, and you can kind of read between the lines, that's his real beef. Like, we weren't gonna mention this, but I think it does bear mentioning that he ends the thing with the little like thing

implying heavily that Elon Musk is like, you know, working with Israeli intelligence, which again is coming from an like more or less Open neo-nazi and certainly open holocaust anir. So the seriousness with which you should take that and the implication you should make from it, I think very little. But that's the beef that he has here. He's angry that Peter Taylor's better friends with Elon Musk, another billionaire, than the guy whose chief claim to fame is settled with Gorka Media after they printed a claim that he shits

on the floor in college. Hey, he also introduced Hoenn Tahn Thatt to Clearview AI. Yeah, the weird like, celibate, racist Asian monk guy, Coda, yes, certainly. Being a spy sounds awesome. Yeah, I mean,

genuinely just, genuinely just thought, how, who the, how do you feel about barrels? I think you just have to like put the feelers out there. If you're just having some seeds, but because it's,

because it's you would have to sort of be, can you, can you be the spy that plays all the sides? Can, can you involve the Chinese mob in your next documentary? Oh, yeah. You have to get really good at poker in Caloon, you know? LAUGHTER I genuinely, I'll just sat there fantasizing about being...

I think the same thing as the guy in the fucking series of jobs. I feel like being a spy will look... I mean, I feel like like many jobs, it is very much like, can you manage your email inbox effectively? Yeah, yeah, yeah, inbox zero zero seven. I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, and HR. I mean, the thing is, I'm wearing green deals. It's sort of like putting out feelers on podcasts that you were interested in becoming a spy,

isn't good enough to get refrigerated as a spy. What am I fucking doing with my life, you know? I'm exactly what a spy would say. Yeah, I'm very good at managing my emails too. Yeah, you might hear that Alice's audio sounds slightly different, she's coming at us from inside a barrel. Hahaha.

Helping hold up a new motorway outside of Moscow. It's right. Yeah, yeah. So I want to move on from our good old friend, Mr. Teal. I'm really not a story about Peter Teal, like, oh my God, billionaire collaborates with state to try to secure a favorable treatment after trying collaborates with uh... with state to try to secure favorable treatment after trying to collaborate with other arm of state that's about by

the is mostly just remembered the right remember chock johnson you know remember that yeah and instead just like to enjoy american yon marselleck uh... with all the attendant whining is tattling and and of course, nothing but posting. An American, Jan Marseilleck, who can be Jan Marseilleck from his computer chair and never actually do anything fun. Yeah, game of Marseilleck. This is, I wanna move on, of course,

to our Amazon discussion and the discussion about your journey to the heart of the beast. Tell me about Paul Butler. Paul Butler, the big fella. Princess Diana's Butler. Yeah, Paul Borrow, I was sorry, I should've said this. Yeah, I mean, I went and worked under cover at Amazon. Amazon Coventry went into the belly of the beast,

which is sort of the center of the Amazon universe a little bit in terms of the Union stuff at the moment. Very close to Unionizing, sort of the closest warehouse outside of Staten Island, which is Unionized obviously, the AOU. And yeah, when I worked there undercover, sprayed my hair brown, because I'm moderately recognizable. And yeah, I looked a bit missed out fire, but it did the trick for... It was still the best of us. Yeah, the initiates were a bit much.

It's the last time I've seen it. It's just like the specs, you know? It was the complex mat of hair that the spray that I'd used made it quite doubt fire. And then the glasses. Yeah, I mean, I applied for a job at Amazon Coventry. I got it. I've strapped a camera between my trousers, but to my legs. And I went in. And you got rumbled very quickly as I understand it. Right. Day three. Day three. And this is the thing, right? The show was great, but this was the

bit that sort of moved from comedy with an edge of the stuff to like, oh, we are brushing the wings of something quite dark here is when they took you into the like back rooms. Yeah. Yeah. Essentially, what happened is you were there at a warehouse, seeing, essentially, seeing what you could do to prank Amazon, but also actually looking at what they were doing in the run up to this unionization effort. Yeah. You could say, and you were there for three days, they rumbled you and then took you to what I can only

describe as an Amazon fulfillment center black site. Yes, it's true. How do you think they knew who you were and that that information gets disseminated and they just know that and can act on it so quickly. One of the people rat it on me. Wow. Someone rat it on me. Like Horos, all these things. Yeah. I mean, I, it was kind of so my third day. The first day was kind of induction day and you kind of go around the warehouse. And look, the disguise was just Clark Kent, it was just a pair of glasses, and a slightly different arrangement of my hair.

So it was always a danger. And I can't, it took us six months to get that signed off. Six months for the channel four to allow me to go with a camera on me into Amazon. And in the short amount of time, we did manage to observe pressing things, obviously, as you'd expect, people in chronic pain. It kind of being like this open secret kind of thing.

There's loads of stuff that we can't talk about because my camera fucked up on one day and we've tried to put it in the film and then ultimately we have to take it out because we can't prove it But you know we got we got what we needed Which was sort of evidence of stuff that we were struggling to prove from the outside You know people at Amazon Coventry from the people we were talking to we're describing it sort of being like a prisoner

and It was it, you know, it's just fucking hell, like the way people feel. It is, there's an atmosphere I used to work in a car factory when I was 18, 19. It's so different, very, very different. The pressure that you have, surveillance is intense. Every time you come off the warehouse floor,

you know, three times a day, you have to go through airport style security scanners. This is in your break. So, and the way I was is huge. So, even that, you know. But like, yeah, so, I mean, I had a camera on me, so I knew I was going to go off every time. So I was just, I've got a pelvic screw. But yeah, no, I was, yeah, I was day three, like after like, bad shifts working in bad heat, no ventilation, like after like bad shifts working in bad heat, no ventilation, a lot of people in pain, and obviously I was part of this alleged, alleged, listen to me, hiring spree that GMB have talked about since in order to just sort of suppress the upcoming union vote in Amazon Coventry,

which was successful, you know. They dub, they allegedly, they'll build the size of the workforce in a very short space of time. Out of like I was one of a hundred sort of new recruits and only two of us out of all those recruits weren't students from South Asia on temporary visas. And yeah, which was interesting. So they can only work 20 hours a week. Yeah, I mean, look, this is all very like

earnest beginnings to what is essentially a piece of entertainment, you know. The film is still trying to deal with these issues which people have become a little switched off to in a way that actually cuts through. That's the idea. Yeah. And before we get into some of the pranks as well, because this is the part that I think,

at least I also found most arresting is arresting, is that whole experience of Amazon, Amazon effectively surveilling you, whether sort of through horizontal or vertical surveillance or people horizontally surveilling one another, because there's a condition back culture of vertical surveillance. That ultimately when you were in that room and they said, you're a uba butler and you were like, yep, no, I'm afraid I'm not Paul Butler at all. You then said, I'm just gonna leave and they were like, no, you can't leave. You have to go through the scanners and you have to go get searched. No, you have to sit down here and wait a little while and you just kept saying, no, you can't leave. You have to go through the scanners and you have to go get searched. And you have to sit down here and wait a little while.

And you just kept saying, no, I'm just going to go. And then you just kept walking away. And they were like, no, you really can't go. Am I being detained, you know? Are you a state yet? Do you have a monopoly on legitimate use of force yet? No, I'm going to leave. This is what we have.

It's very funny in British about it to kind of it reminded me a bit like you know that scene in in Ocean's 11 where they get them out back in the casino and they're like roughing them up or whatever. It like that but it's just like a woman from HR going like it's against our policy. You can say I'm having a high vis-vis so I want you to escalate this. Yeah, you know the confidentiality agreement you signed. Yeah, I mean, the worst thing that could have happened is them finding the camera.

If they had found the camera, I'd have been in a lot. If I'd have found the camera, I'd have been in a lot of trouble. So I had to try and get out of there before they did, basically. And yeah, they really didn't want me to leave and I really didn't want me to leave, but I really didn't want to stay. Was that something you had been through before going in? Like, is like a, like a conduct after capture thing to be like, you know, like, don't let them like search, you just go. Or was that spur of the moment? No, I mean, I was like, there was a lot of stuff that

I, I mean, I'm, they were like, you know, undercover reporters are a specific type and I ain't one. And I, yeah, it's just stuff like everything can go to court, all recordings you should expect. Think about what you're saying in that context. So I was like, wanted to say, yeah, I'm filming undercover boss or whatever. I'm actually the boss of Amazon. You're promoted. So it's tough, we're... When I ripped off like brown hairspracer revealed totally bald Jeff Bezos.

Yeah. Exactly. So yeah, I mean, I genuinely wanted to just bullshit as I normally would. But they were like, no, I genuinely wanted to just bullshit as I normally would But they were like no, this could go to court you deeply unserious man Doing their official it escape evasion and resistance to interrogation training John snow like tipping a bucket of water over your head That's why they have to say it's tough enough to bring all of this shit in house, you know Yeah, I just kept thinking about like you're in the in the in the Amazon black site that Ethan Hart comes and puts a laptop

I know for everyone just starts ordering things in your movies Just like we're just going through your own account like why did you order like penguins of Madagascar in 2018? What's going on with you? You know that's funny actually Before we started, when we were kind of gearing up to this, I did look up through my history to see if they had anything on me. They don't. They don't. Bad choices of taste, maybe. Do you think one of them was annoyed that they had a reservation

at the Shad, but never materialized? You owe me dinner. I had that when I was doing it. I didn't speak in Norway a few years ago. And this like rich Norwegian businessman was like, I tried to book a table and it was like, sorry what? What? Yeah, genuinely. I called you. You seem to be doing a podcast at the time. What? What? Yeah, Jenny really. I called you. You seem to be doing a podcast at the time. Yeah, no, but yeah, you date this is.

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Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ. They're able to just identify who exactly who you are. But also the other sort of, the film then proceeds as to essentially hack, as we mentioned earlier, hacking bits of Amazon to do things that they specifically say they would not do and that any reasonable person would find

completely insane that they allowed to happen. And I think that there is this summary, at least in two of them, because two of them is, as we mentioned earlier, you made Amazon driver P, which they have to throw out because if their vans are searched

and they're a bottles full of piss, they get demarranted or whatever, they can't take a sprake to piss because then they're time off task, right? You highlight that impossible thing, but you have to transcend the need to piss. But also what you do, right? Is you show how Amazon can talk out of both sides

of its mouth. It can say to its customers, we are a store, and it can say to regulators in the state, we are a platform that connects individual buyers and sellers and we will just algorithmically promote thing. Yeah, I mean, it's interesting, obviously, kind of making the film has been really difficult and every single outlet that's covered it

immediately gets corrections, immediately gets notes, like it's a media like the guardian put out their peace to minutes later you know the press office of the child for the same yet we've had all these corrects these corrections this is you know this is a serious the company is very serious about how people uh... you know not breaking the spell i guess the spell of like

uh... it doesn't matter whatever however they operate i love having the ship quick is very enough. I understand that Or piss quick But yeah, where was I? Yeah, so think about the piss drink. Yeah, it was interesting because I initially listed it as a refillable pump dispenser. That was the initial trick and then the Amazon's algorithm the initial trick. And then the Amazon's algorithm tricked itself, thought it was an energy drink and moved it into energy drinks, bypassing it's like food and drinks license in protecting, which is interesting. And then I wanted to get it moved from energy drinks into bitter lemon

drinks. So I was going back and forth with them being like, I'm a small business owner. I know this product. I manufacture it myself, move it into this. And at this point, like it literally says, like, you're in the product description. And then eventually I emailed Amazon's executive team and then they escalated it and moved it into the category. I wanted. So around liability you were saying earlier, it's quite interesting because trading standards said to us that if they had knowledge, even if it's a third party seller, small business,

whatever, then that liability is also theirs. It's true. Of course, if you are selling urine, it's quite hard to know which category of drink it should go into. So I do feel for them there. Exactly. I mean, other than on Amazon.de, where there is a specific Piscatranken category. Yeah, and, but this is what we, like when we talk about platforms, right,

we always talk about how they, on the one hand, they appear to take responsibility for what's on there, right? Like in seeming to endorse certain things saying, Amazon's choice or what have you, but generally, what they actually do is just algorithmically promote whatever seems to work and that's very easily gameable as you've shown I think now several times across several different platforms, but also it's like that's his a market contrast How lightly you were surveilled the light touch with which they looked at you say I want to sell piss here All the ingredients and, it's piss.

They just said, number one, promote it, put it at sell it, put it at will fulfill it for you, even. Contrast that to the amount of times you got searched between going from the packing and picking line to the smoking area. That's an interesting point. Yeah, if the friction less of buying versus, yeah, being a work of that.

Well, because you could have been trying to steal some of the piss off of the work floor. You know, this poor butt like guy. Yeah, yeah, this a work of that. Well, because you could have been trying to steal some of the piss off of the work floor. You know, this poor butt like guy. Yeah, yeah, it's a good point. It's fine, dude. This is valuable piss. You know, it's the, it's the, it's the, let's say we will package and sell

whatever this is for you and it being pissed. That's the meeting point between the other, highly controlled access and highly surveilled lives of the workers and a total free-for-all for businesses. That's what we had back when, like, before, say, I don't know, any kind of trading standards meant that you could just sell whatever and call it whatever. Yeah, in my family history, one of my great uncles was a suicide rabbit dropings as medicine. I know that.

Wow, man. We're a family business, you know? But we talk a lot about, you know, there, about the sort of unfettered world of tech feudalism, or the unfettered world of like, you know, neoliberal sort of like, avarice, right? As being actually returning to the kinds of, returning to the kinds of experiences that you would have in the 19th century, like dogbiting, now, dogmoling's now much more common. But you can people selling piss as a cure all,

much more common. When if Poucher will be all over this, the goop. Also, we can talk about, right? The idea that Amazon says to customers, trust us, we're a store and regulators. It's healed, they're not. It's very much like you wouldn't regulate a guy

with glasses, right? It's to be like, yeah, you know, buy from us, we're a store, we're a store, we're a store, the regulator rounds the corner. We're just a simple country platform, you know? So let's talk about how... You wouldn't drink a piss. For example, and this is the same logic that allowed your young nieces to use an Alexa to order

thousands and thousands of pounds of knives and rat poison. Yeah, shout out to even Penny. thousands of pounds of knives and rat poison. Yeah. Shout out to Ethan Penny. Look, they've got a mole problem in their garden and they need to deal with it one way or another. I mean, yeah, I'm going to start a weapon unboxing YouTube channel with them. But yeah, no, that was like, yeah, one of those

had to kind of fight quite hard to get that in the film. But I think it's actually one of the, I think it's my favorite bit, I think. It's just because it's so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, you can't buy through your Alexa, it's like, yeah, but these weren't age verified. That's the whole fucking point. What were some of the items that were... Yeah, so like knives, lots of knives, my niece at one point, four years old, turned me in, they've just been ordering

all these different knives through their Alexa with like no issue. And getting them sent to Amazon lockers, basically, or to my parents' house. The them sent to Amazon lockers basically or to my parents house. The interesting thing about Amazon lockers is because there is age verification is impossible in an Amazon locker. It is impossible.

And like 90% of the items we ordered, we put through there. And to be honest, the niece is part of it is the vehicle, with why it's a fun stun. But legally speaking, it didn't have, I could have ordered them items. It doesn't matter. It's just simply not age verifying something that should be age

verified is in offense. And then if you then don't package it in the right way, another offense. If you don't ID someone at the door, third offense, and like in order for those things to all fall in line, at the point of purchase, you need to have been ID'd. You know, when you try and order like a Vodka or whatever, like that, I'll call that pretty good at regulating an Amazon. But these weapons that we found, a lot of different items, solvents. We did a lot of solvents.

Yeah, I wanted to. That's all we got, the ideas, bro. Me and Teal. But yeah, I mean, we would have done lots of different ones. I wanted to buy Uranium at one point, but they stopped selling it on that. They were selling it. Yeah, they were selling Uranium. I was like, oh, this is the perfect bit But the other thing goes on now. I've got to be prohibitive Yeah, it can only go to places that are served by armored train unfortunately

My foot, my foot, you know, in, so they have to leave it behind your bin It's going in over So I get over the fence and absolutely get destroying your concern between it. Genuinely, go have a look at line, they used to sell it at the sun. And that was my dream was getting an order in uranium. But our budget wasn't that big, so I was sticking to things like knives and razor blades and... He's hard to do county lines if you're anium to be fair exactly These days anyway, John. I'll boom it up. We try to build anti-tank munitions to sell cat Yeah, the county lines walls are really amping up

But if you want it was to get uranium that does make me like curious about what else Was in the works for this that for like for one reason or another just didn't quite come through for this specific stun Oh, yeah, yeah, oh, yeah, oh god. We had such a we had so many good bits There's there was one bit about You know the Roomba which Amazon bought the little machine vacuum Hi You know, the Roomba, which Amazon bought, the little machine vacuum. I read that you can like, we old blueprints of people's houses if you're from their Roomba, like if you have the Roomba.

So I wanted to like go and get an interview with a kind of high level Amazon executive and like go to their house and let off a rumor as we chat. Like it's completely strawberry lens the interview and like you know, be like, you guys are great. And then take the rumor with me, get the blueprints off the rumor. I did all this bit, they're how to do the tech bit, but they're cheerful wouldn't let me do this. And then go go to like a, like a Mexican security prison, find a cat burglar and be like, what could you do with these plans?

And have them be like, hey, here's where I would get in there. This is what I would do at this part of the house. This is what I do with that. Then you then go back to the executive and I was like, hey, I've got some of your data. And then, you know, like that. Yeah, that's the thing.

That's what Amazon's doing to all of us. But when you do it to them, it's quote unquote intimidation. Yeah. That's not in the public interest. Just because I gave Charles Bronson the blueprints of some guy's house. Suddenly it's a conspiracy. Yeah. How did I end up here? Yeah, but you know,

this is like number one, I love I do wish you were able to pull that stuff. I'm sorry you weren't. I think the thing that's highlighted about Amazon, where in this documentary, the sort of the thread that runs through it kind of bubbling a thread bubbling is terrible metaphor mixing, but the thread below the surface is there in where they choose to be incredibly reckless. It is where they allow the bigness of their, they look at the bigness of their platform. The very thing that allows them to exist in the way that they do and then just shrug their shoulders and say, well, no one could possibly control all of that. So I guess we might as well not try.

And then the care that you would want taken by someone supplying you with something is then just not taken. Whether that means they are not thinking about how, or not thinking or thinking about and not caring about the fact that these blueprints of lots of people's houses are stored just how Amazon decides to secure them. But I'd like to know how the blueprint of my house is being stored if it's going to be stored

somewhere, but also how they can say, okay, well, we're going to age fair of ice stuff that's obvious to us, right? But a bunch of these knives, other gardening tools, so we're not going to age verify gardening tools. It's so big that you have to think in categories, and then it's not profitable to do anything more if you're going to have that level of bigness. But where they're not reckless, you go back to the very beginning, right? They're reckless about selling piss. They're reckless about selling knives. They're not reckless about

allowing someone to take a piss. Or like responding to any of the stuff in the film, you know, like you said. Well, we've got valuable picks, and we need to keep hold of it. I mean, this man, Paul Butler, who's infiltrated our warehouse, an obvious pseudonym for piss botler. I love that. I love that. This is pie. There's me in the future. You're in like a looper type situation.

With the version of yourself with the clown hand. This is a sci-fi documentary on Channel 4 last night. I didn't know about it. It was. Last thing I want to ask, the answer to stunts you weren't able to pull the sort of these threads that are coming between them. Yeah.

You know, it's just how fucking difficult was it to get this made? Yeah. Oh my god. So hard. Making a film about some, yeah. Up until the very, very last minute, it couldn't have happened. It might not have happened.

Like, it was, yeah, it's really difficult. I mean, I commit fraud in it. That's like the filing. You know, like, put that on the thing. Yeah, I commit fraud in the film. And Amazon genuinely, in the film and Amazon genuinely, in the film, a lawyer says to me, yeah, you know, you can get criminal charges for this.

And I'm like, oh yeah, there's in this clever, he's like, only if you don't admit to it. I'm like, okay. Well, it's two layers of that. Did you have like a, did you have like your own lawyer who like, don't go on a podcast? Or even in situations where they're like, okay, well, if you get, if you do like end up,

and in your case, it did happen. Was there any legal advice that was given to you about what you should and shouldn't say in that setting by like a lawyer? In the, on the warehouse floor. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, massively. Undercover film is so heavily regulated because of the invasion of privacy and all that stuff.

Six months of work to go in, that's like, that's just the way it is. But that's like one aspect of it. Just getting stuff on television, you will not believe just the amount of, I mean, I'm a, yeah, I was used to the Wild West of like, vice fucking videos on the internet. This is a bit different, I dropped acid in an Amazon factory. No, yeah. But like, yeah, it was really difficult and like,

but it kind of shows, and Amazon have really, Amazon have got unlimited resources, basically, haven't they? And their legal team is a lot bigger than channel four, but I'm like, yeah, I mean, I'm just lucky that a public service broadcast to pick this up. My precious, precious, precious, precious, precious piss film. Yeah, and there's, I mean, the film I do think, like when you make a project like this, a documentary or something, kind of dawns on you what it is about and what were your themes that kind of come as you finish it.

And definitely the law is what, for me, a lot of this is about, you know, throughout the film I had this kind of vehicle kind of thing that I wanted to do is me talk into the lawyer and tell him after the fact. So I mean, I met this guy in a pub, he's like, one of, he is one of Britain's leading, like young jurors, according to some one of, he is one of Britain's leading like young jurors according to some weird fortune 500 of lawyers, I don't know what it is, but call it in anyway. And I talked to him throughout the film and you know I'm taught his genuinely like a high powered lawyer and yeah, I mean I guess just like stuff like you know Amazon as I'm leaving when

I'm getting sort of you know as I'm leaving I when I'm getting sort of, you know, as I'm leaving, I'm trying to leave. They remind me of the confidentiality agreement I've signed and things like that. And he obviously at the end of the film, I have him look at that. And he goes through this confidentiality agreement and basically says, well, no, I mean, this doesn't really stand up. But this is not legal advice and no one should take it as legal advice. He says that. But yeah, we created this website,

NDANoWay.com where anyone who works at Amazon can have six minutes of his full legal advice that I kind of tricked him to give in. It's not legal advice. It's not legal advice. Admit it. Thank you. That's a academic comment. I agree. Thanks. Thank you. Thanks for the sort of academic comment. I could get it. I would do it.

It's called NDA No Way.com. Stankross design that as well, and it's very funny. It looks like better call sawp. It's just worth it. And it's, yeah, get it up, get it up. A lot of things that employers make you sign, like NDAs and stuff, are actually like,

effectively unenforceable, because it's like the lawyer says in your film, like you can't contract people to not reveal stuff that's like breaches of the law. And you also can't contract people out of their statutory rights and so on, but your employer will have you believe that they can do this, but they can't. So a lot of stuff you sign in these situations is actually horseshit anyway. Yeah, that's all good. No, no, he basically says I say to him, you know, he's like, look, you know, it does say you need to go through the appropriate channels and I'm like, no, he basically says I say to him, you know, he's like, look, you know, it does say you need to go through the appropriate channels And I'm like, yeah, but what if someone just doesn't fucking want to do that. They don't like their manager

They don't feel could you tweet about it and he was like And then he's like basically he said that he would direct anyone who's going through that to a cast the free employment advice and Yeah, I mean it, it is insane. Yeah, the basic understanding, like what even is a protected disclosure? Like what? I was had to work for four hours on a truck

that I was told I was gonna be off for, I have to half an hour, I was there for four hours, there's no van, it was 40 degrees. That's something that happens to me while I was working there. Like what, am I not allowed to say, is that like company secrets? I mean, I think this gets back around to what,

and this the way I sort of felt the theme of the law made itself known in the documentary, which is that Amazon is able to make the law what it needs to make the law. It's able to make regulation what it needs to make regulation. A fine is the cost of doing business. And all of that means that, that well you need to be quite scrupulous about what you think of as protected disclosure they are able to use the sheer force of their bigness political influence and money to get to define what a protected disclosure is what really highlights

is how uneven a playing field the law actually is yeah I mean a colline actually said something that we cut out the film, but he was like, the law is like the doors of the ritz, open to everybody. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And it comes back round to like thinking, well, if Amazon has essentially made itself

in more than just one way, by the way, it's not just incredible infrastructure, I say incredible meaning, gigantic and huge and now all consuming and it's warmed its way into everything for physical goods but also for digital as well with Amazon web services. I mean, yeah, that NDA no way.com is probably hosted on AWS, probably just by the law of like averages.

Yeah, well, almost certainly. And you know, that their, this is, warmed its way into becoming the plumbing for so many things. It is essentially able to be a kind of, un, unfoya, abull, public utility privately owned by one man. Or privately owned by its shareholders and run by Andy Jassy, sort of,

seen over by Jeff Bezos. Well, that's why the thing, talking about infrastructure, that's why I wanted to do the pot hole bit. I love the pot holes. Thank you, I knew you would. I knew you would. I appreciate it. Yeah, I mean, I go out a whole bit

where sort of try and trick Amazon into paying tax by ordering loaders cement from Amazon, going around Britain filling in pot holes with it, and then sending back sand from the beach that weighs the same amount. I want to take a constituent ingredient of cement. Yeah, thank you. Another example though.

Another example though of how they are relatively reckless. They have designed their whole system to work, to sort of just tick over well enough without human oversight and look what fucking happens. Yeah, but yeah, I mean that's it. Like how quick an Amazon make a prime delivery without the roads that taxes pay for. That's the piece of logic, isn't it? And it's like replacing infrastructure.

I was going to say on the subject of like what went into making the film at and legal agreements. A few months ago I got a text from Uber asking if I would mind making a purchase on Amazon on his behalf and I was like, sure. So then I get looped in an email chain with some people at the production company and then I had to sign an agreement

about not saying anything about the fact that I was going to buy some Pierce. And then in the email, in block capitals, it said, you will not receive any urine. LAUGHTER And then in the email in block capitals it said you will not receive any urine Which I sort of presumed I wouldn't but I was glad to have that on in writing. I mean we had It's a son I didn't mention we had real people trying to buy the drink real people who we we weren't in on it tried to buy the fucking drink And I was like this could be it this could be my moment You know popping off in Germany.

One man was like, finally. Goes well with like rice sandwiches. I don't have to keep going to usbed half every weekend. I just get it to my house. If you want to talk, by the way, just as a little bit of a capstone about Amazon, let's say, allowing its bigness to pull people out of the way.

We talk about, there are lots of things about Amazon that are terrible. We talk about it frequently, and we always look at a different facet of it. It's almost like a hyper object. It's hard to conceive of all at once. What we're talking about now is their recklessness with which they treat their consumers versus the regulators and the world that they operate in versus the scrutiny that they subject their employees to. If you wanna talk about, and again, this is just one dimension of that,

let's say the next step of that is that a couple of days ago they announced a new wave of humanoid robots that they were going to deploy throughout all of their factories in a bid to completely automate their workflow. So this, if this thing called digit, a robot with two arms and two legs, um, wait, they say, yeah, they say, why not eight? Well, they got to have an octopus robot, but let's please not have an octopus robot.

Yeah, which are going to have that robots number. They are going to operate in Amazon warehouses to quote again eliminate all the menial and mundane and repetitive tasks with Amazon bosses reassuring staff that they are irreplaceable and the introduction of new technology doesn't mean there will be fewer warehouse workers or that they will, let's say, have their own work become more automated

because what we've seen is time and time again, Amazon introduces robotics into its warehouses. And what that does is it makes the robots the boss and it forces the staff to work more like robots leading to things like repetitive strain injuries. Yeah, I mean, you could also talk about another piece of news that came out like a week ago where Amazon accused of human trafficking in Saudi Arabia.

So that's another one to think about with their work forces, isn't it? Amazon accused of human trafficking in Saudi Arabia. So that's another one to think about with their workforce, isn't it? It was just called in Saudi Arabia. The normal way of doing business. The fucking hell, that's the fuck, yeah. Insane, yeah. Well, and this is one of their spokesmen. This is on Amazon's own internal PR sites.

So what are the best sources for this show is just companies own PR. They emphasize the ability of technology to augment and not replace what, quote, unquote, human-oriented work, continuing. When we do our job really, really well, a robotic system just bend, lend to the background to become ubiquitous. You don't talk about your dishwasher too much in your kitchen, but it's an amazing robot. It's such a great robot that I don't even call it a robot. Get a sort of a rump syntax there, you know?

Yeah. Yeah. Even if people said it was a terrible robot, I'd say it's great to me. I'm just remembering a bit. I remember it another bit we cut. Oh, please. That was a robot that broke someone's arm

that works in a factory in the Midwest somewhere in America. Yeah, the arm breaking robot. Yeah, yeah. For example, we said this thing. Well, it was a specific robot that was like broken someone's arm. I think it injured someone else. And I was like, I want to assassinate the robot. I want to, how do I take out that robot?

And I was like, have you performed some sort of complicated bit where I go in and assassinate a specific robot? And they were like, so you're talking about doing like millions of pounds of criminal damage there. And I was like, no, I want to kill the robot. Yeah. It's not a robot, it's so good, it's now a person. I love the energy we'll come up with.

I love the uranium from Amazon. And then he'll to weapon out of that. It's a circular economy, right? It's in the ball of piss back. No. I love this. I love the evil company PR where it's just like, now the use of the term human trafficking

is only really germane to our operation. If you think of them as people, which we do not. I love it. This bottle of piss I bought from the Amazon Uranium warehouse is glowing awfully green. You have like one hemisphere plutonium that you buy that comes from one fulfillment center, another from another you return them both,

they go to the same return center, you know? I love the like a 1990s anti globalization like this Uranium was mined and Quebec, then packaged. Yeah. Yeah. But this is also coming when Amazon's talking about using, we're using drone technology, where I get this,

they say that it's vanses and technology are taking place in industries or widespread, widespread, widespread strikes are taking place, and employees are demanding better working conditions and pay. This is from a blog talking about Amazon, not Amazon themselves. I don't think they be saying this.

With the use of robotics, employers may be able to bypass these demands altogether. That's what I'm, excuse me, I'm gonna start that again. This is from HR grapevine, a company that, one of these specialists, HR, like, one more time. This is from HR grapevine, which is one of these, like, trade publications that I sometimes find. Would they talk about how these are going very like press round on a Vagot News view?

I love those. As any listener to this show, although I love very specific trade publications, the grocer has been so helpful to me. Quebec Uran quarterly. Now, they sort of noted, right, that all of these announcements are taking place at the same time, that they're using drone technology to deliver parcels. Again, they claim to be doing that, who knows how well it will work or how many people will be killed by just,

like someone's uranium fall, like the thermocrynded drone strike. You know? Yeah. I like it. And that, you know, or, you know? Yeah. I like it. And that, you know, these robots coming into warehouses where unionizations might be happening.

The HR grapevine just notes, Blithy gets four HR professionals. So it's like, this is good. Notably, the HR whisper network. These advances in technology are taking place. In industries where widespread strikes are also taking place. And employees are demanding better working conditions and pay.

The use of robotics employers may be able to bypass these demands altogether. So if we saw that so many of these failures to take care that Amazon is sort of perpetrating selling people piss or all this stuff, you know, where they're saying, well, we're going to do more of that. We have more packages just flying through the air. people piss or all this stuff, you know, where they're saying, well, we're going to do more of that. We have more packages just flying through the air. We're going to have more robots in our, in our fulfillment centers. And that's like largely without saying it because of unionization.

Again, they've not said that, but you can sort of connect the dots yourself. That all that, all this is saying that a fundamental piece of the plumbing of our lives is going to get probably more reckless. Yeah, I don't know with all this stuff, I tend to feel like, I mean, I think in the warehouse I was in they had, yeah, they did, they had some robots in there. I think it's all just going to be basically dysfunctional without humans anyway. So it's just kind of a way to sort of demean people and demoralize them rather than genuinely having like this robo-topia fucking fulfillment center. It would just be like, you know, the jobs become, it'll be more interaction between humans

and, well, I do think that the white, it's just constantly reframing of the debate to position themselves as a sort of tech-innovative tech company when they're basically just Walmart. Intervative, right? But not an innovative in the way that they'd like you to think they're being innovative. You said loads of stuff that's going to get me in trouble. Hey, well, thank you for coming and saying it on here. I appreciate it. It's a place that was like long beeps, you know? Yeah, really long beeps. If you're in the UK, you can check out the great Amazon Heist on channel four.

If you're not in the UK, I suppose you're going to have to find your own way to check it out. Yeah, and if you work for Amazon, you can get some free academic commentary. Yeah, that's right. Once again, Uba, thank you very much. It's been a delight. Thank you, guys. Secondly, if you are out there listening to us, you should check out our

Patreon for $5 a month. Only once you have donated to medical aid for Palestinians, the link of which will of course be in the show notes. And otherwise, we'll see you in a few days. On the bonus episode, our theme song is Here We Go by Jin Sang. Check it out on Spotify, which I'm aware also is a platform probably hosted on Amazon Web Services. But once you make a piece with that,

check out Jin Sang's Here We Go. Yeah, see in a few days,, unless Milo, you have dates. Yeah, November 11, 12 and 14, I will be in Bristol, Birmingham and Oxford, respectively, the tickets for that are slowly, a slowly trickling away. So please do much like the piss of a Amazon driver. Please do grab a hold of those. I like some of my website. Okay, now for real, we'll see you in a few days. Bye everybody. Hey, right.

Right. Right. you