TRASHFUTURE - Q Dawn: Wellness Baz Rides Again feat. Annie Kelly

Episode Date: September 8, 2020

The rare Full Cast Configuration of Riley (@raaleh), Milo (@Milo_Edwards), Hussein (@HKesvani), Nate (@inthesedeserts), and Alice (@AliceAvizandum) joins Annie Kelly (@AnnieKNK) of the QAnonAnonymous Podcast to discuss the rise of British Q. Annie attended a Q-themed protest recently and got the real scoop on how British minds are parsing the Q Drop. It doesn’t sound good! We also have an interview between Riley and Darran McLaughlin (@McDarran) from Momentum on the topic of his organisation’s new push to organise tenants’ unions. If you’re a Momentum member and want to help out, you can sign up here: https://airtable.com/shr60xqjMBszOCgIt If you want access to our Patreon bonus episodes and powerful Discord server, sign up here: https://www.patreon.com/trashfuture We support the London Renters Union, which helps people defeat their slumlords and avoid eviction. If you want to support them as well, you can here: https://londonrentersunion.org/donate Here's a central location to donate to bail funds across the US to help people held under America's utterly inhumane system: https://secure.givelively.org/donate/the-bail-project If you want one of our *fine* new shirts, designed by Matt Lubchansky, then e-mail trashfuturepodcast [at] gmail [dot] com. £15 for patrons, £20 for non-patrons, plus shipping. *WEB DESIGN ALERT* Tom Allen is a friend of the show (and the designer behind GYDS dot com). If you need web design help, reach out to him here:  https://www.tomallen.media/

Hello and welcome back to this episode this free episode free episode no no don't do the voice they haven't earned it yeah oh you didn't pay for this one yeah this free episode of TF podcast you were listening to at the present moment it is myself realized when you say that in that phrasing it just turned into cop this is the podcast style experience you are currently engaging in the vicinity of the the aforementioned the aforementioned Salem I would engage in several podcast style experience microphone involve podcasting incident before being killed by several of our gun style bullets you know so no

we are we are a we are the podcast you're listening to right now we're also our own people but right now we're the podcast because that's how ontology works I'm Riley I'm here with Milo hello I for one am nostalgic for lost futures that's what I'll say ontology just confusing the two all the time we hold it a really a really really Essex person talking about Mark Fisher being yeah you got ontology and then you got ontology was interested in the philosophy of being and not being we also have with us Hussein yeah I'm stumbling out I'm kind of drunk out of the vampires adult ball pit or all bar

vampire yeah and also with us we have Alice do not know enough Mark Fisher to continue this bit and we are we have made in studio final words you know classic Mark Fisher trivia is that he lived in Felix Stowe which if I'm not mistaken as an Essex so Essex Mark Fisher could have been a thing Felix Stowe Port is also owned by Trinity College Cambridge if you want to make it even more trash future yes all of it's all connections we're all posting that stupid eye my third eye is fully open and we are very pleased to be joined on this episode by Annie Kelly the British correspondent of QAnon Anonymous Annie

how's it going hi thanks so much for having me on finally we can find out about Britain what's going on over there yeah this is actually like I think my my third podcast I've been on this week no yeah I've been a real podcast slut yeah I've been decontaminating after each episode because it can it can build up this is this is clout week Annie Kelly edition the podcast meters only go up to 3.6 Röntgen but the real levels may be much higher so I wanted a few things a few things just to kick us off with number one I don't have any sort of note for this but David Graber who you if you're listening to this podcast

you probably know died recently a couple days ago before the recording this podcast last week from when you'll be hearing it and he was a he was one of probably not only was he one of the most like influential intellectual figures of the modern resurgent left along with Mark Fisher he was like he is the guy that's that first said we are the 99% like he's that guy he also was a an academic whose work was always rooted in actual on the ground activism he is someone who is would be there a relatively prestigious academic type would be there protesting with like grad students striking for higher

pay and I I think it's just it's important to recognize guys sounds like such a dick when I say this but I feel personally like I owe him this show especially would be it would not be what it is without him nor would it be what it is that Mark Fisher and I always follow the McMurphy I feel like we are a I feel like we are a lesser place it is the world's a lesser place with them gone so I've been I've been thinking a lot about David Graber and want to sort of just give that little trip rest in peace David Graber really smart guy a really nice guy also a guy who name searched and would favor tweets if they

were good and call you a piece of shit if they were bad and that is someone that we can all identify with the two wolves that live in all of us oh did you see the woman who like got got into a posthumous fight with him on Twitter Francis can't be Francis Coppola very normal British yeah no what what happened was she she had tweeted at him and he had taken exception to it and like called her a dump piece of shit or something of that nature several years ago and then blocked her and then on she she decided to bring that up the day he died like incidentally just so we're not canonizing this guy he was rude to me on

Twitter several years ago so when I die I look forward to like 20 minutes of eulogy and four days of that it's gonna it's gonna be so good yeah that did make me wonder actually like which Twitter accounts would do that about me if I died probably a lot of the QAnon ones yeah I mean what I have an idea which ones would do it for us but we shouldn't really mention them all I can say is a lot of dungarees will be clipping off that day some yeah I think if I ever die they'll just be like yeah without him the left would never have known what a South African sorry make it make it known I am getting the bionic man surgery I'm

going in on the same day as Alice but I am getting robot everything I'm just getting the pussy and then in the next bed you're injecting twink blood with piece of teal yeah is it Milo just gets adrenochrome forever yeah but if I ever do possibly die after my death they'll be like yeah without him the left would never have known what a South African accent sounded like so I guess so I guess we owe him that we have any on because I want to talk about I want to talk about QAnon because I'm interested in QAnon's relationship with the world outside of America and I think now that we've had a bunch of sort of you know bogus quote

unquote save our children rallies that it's a good enough time to talk about it however I want to do a really fat a fast start up a speed start lightning round lightning start up it's called bio for miss and four is spelled like the number four rather than ever this is the thing that's going to be keeping Milo alive forever sacrifice to the golden throne I'm having one of my testicles replaced with a bio for us that's right hmm so what do we think bio form us for miss is it like is it an energy thing no no no no it's and it's the other thing that it could be with a name like that so some kind of a fitness thing no it's

the other thing it could be with a name like that it's like nutrition no no think more the other thing it could be with a name like that it's it's a speed biology tuition session for ladies it's it's saying it's closest it's a hapler groups powered speed dating service see your dates genetic profile and see if there are any surprises in there yeah any get bio for miss what do you think me what's what does bio for miss me and what's it do what's it do so it's a start up oh yeah it's called bio for miss oh no I'm at a loss is that I don't know is it some kind of yes I'm kind of like

health nutrition sort of like lifestyle thing it is indeed health I'll say I'll say this for it is it says it is personally blank care customized that's right not just customized predictive oh no oh no is it like a predict what kind of illnesses you're gonna have like yes yes it is a essentially I can't wait until I get that and before I realize I have gender dysphoria cuts my fucking dick off I imagine I imagine that there's like a surveillance component to it which like sort of is built on machine learning Hussain absolutely am I doing am I doing good today yeah you're doing super good your boss the exact day

you'll get colon cancer but does not tell you okay so so it's it predicts the exact day you die so that your enemies know what to post about you on the day that you're dead my look gets it and it's just like a question mark it takes for 23 and me results and it determines whether or not a company should hire you because you'd be a risk to their health insurance plan or not this is America so it is a now it could be used for that but mostly is being deployed for things like clinical trials the the CEO says there's this whole new era which has evolved of how do you use software to treat and manage manage

disease optimize the right dose to the right patient at the right time and he says that this is going to be a way to make health care more accessible accessible hell yeah he says that but unnecessary hospitalizations lead to billions of dollars worth of medical costs and as well as readmissions in the US why are billions oh they're just they're just all toxinus they just arise that way Alice you can't answer that question with an AI hmm it's not a good question to ask if you can't answer it with an AI bounded by a doctor Jose Mengele from Buenos Aires

so so basically it says the bio vitals platform shows you more than patient data it can help show you the patient's future oh no okay number one minority report your health report any company that's claiming to do this is always bullshit always it always turns out to be bullshit it says they but they can predict and prevent costly medical events with a modular user friendly platform not a costly medical event that's my least favorite medical event medical event so for health systems it includes improves clinical outcomes by reducing readmissions it improves workflow efficiencies for payers oh yeah it reduces overall health care

expenditures will improve in clinical outcomes there's pay pigs so that's usually insurance companies ordinarily and then for pharmaceutical companies it augments drug efficacy in outcomes using drugs plus digital intervention what about four patients who will say they've stolen that they've stolen digital intervention from the name of the band that me and Nate are starting the peak that's what basically it says he's just shaking so what I what I thought what I found most interesting about this right is that they say that this could finally be a breakthrough for treating endometriosis which because it can objectively measure the pain someone's in oh that thing that we know how to do

but how would that help because you can't you can't trust women when they say they're in pain no no of course not so actually it can't help you cure endometriosis but it can help you definitely yep that's endometriosis essentially yes we have just like outsourced if we've outsourced the police racism to the racism computer we have now outsourced the medical sexism and the medical racism to like the medical condescension computer that's right no your sickle cell is not flaring up so hey I want to throw to you what's your what is what is your assessment of this you might say hospital sky net minority report box that says nope that woman's not lying I'm baffled by it like I didn't I didn't know there was a way that you could objectively

measure pain so how would it be doing it how could that possibly work magic I think this is a AI but you can't just say AI yes you can I think this is like something that's like really starting to get to me with like the word algorithm is like how we kind of like how we use the word algorithm because it is so inscrutable so it's basically just kind of a plausible deniability thing do you know what I mean of course yeah well the algorithm made that decision no you can't see the code do you know yeah at any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic in that it doesn't fucking work so this they say the digital solution for managing patients with endometriosis will include a wearable clinical grade biosensor to capture physiology

biomarkers in a patient facing mobile app to monitor symptoms biosensor with a gamification engine for patient management yes the AI level up by jogging playing frog with my heart or is me so the AI based technology will provide a continuous quantification of pain by applying analytics to physiology biomarkers so again you can't just let someone tell you how much pain they're in no no couldn't do that because that wouldn't yeah it would be cheating well because where's the where's the AI go where would where would the app in that relationship but they tell the app how much pain there yeah I mean I guess you could do that but you know it's there's so much more potential to computerize this just as a sort of a bit of skynet paranoia

I'm also not very happy about teaching AI as one of the first things we have it do how to recognize and quantify human pain sounds like a potential risk take heart don't rate take heart Alice there's I'm sure there's no risk of it literally yeah literally no chance this will work it's the fucking the thing we should be thankful for here um yeah so look at the yet that's also like I there is it's not to say that right that that AI doesn't AI or like some kind of predictive analytics doesn't have a place in healthcare like a randomized control trial is basically a way of doing predictive analysis and a lot of the could probably be improved by the application of technology but if the application of your technology is to basically

like try to reduce try to reduce things like um try to reduce costs in the health system by like creating efficiencies but not looking at who's making the cost happen and also like trying to improve patient outcomes by taking the patient out of the equation and just sort of prodding and poking and measuring them then you're and I'm sorry your your platform is probably doing more harm than it's preventing um yeah so awesome anyway the reason that I wanted to talk about Bioformis is not just because of it but uh it recently has received a little investment oh no how many billions okay no uh Alice you're barely Mr. J no it has been it has been invested in by a Mr. S bank because the Vision Fund is back oh yeah that's right Vision Fund

to first big investment Bioformis hundred million dollars we need this bank of Mr. H bull we need theme music for the Vision Fund I don't know what it will be yet but we need to have some pitch reverse Star Trek music are you obligating me and Milo to do some more composing you guys do not need to be obligated this is a thing that you are choosing for yourself yeah that is true with broken our own brains um so yeah that's it uh it is for remote medical tools for the home so that you can basically be spied on all the time but someone who's trying to do medicine to you as opposed to someone who's trying to raise your car insurance or make sure that you're paying attention at your job it sounds like someone who's trying to avoid doing medicine to you right

like someone who's trying to figure out if you're just kind of making up that you need medicine being done to you yeah it's a neat way of denying healthcare yeah it's just like the little la noir thing where it just reads your face while you say you're in pain and then like presses x to doubt well there's also just like how vague the technology is as well like oh it contains biosensors cool what's a biosensor like what are you oh that's bio that's bio right there detected bio probably literally just a like a a whole sock semester that's all it's going to be so it says the bioformer's health unit cool will continue with the bio vitals platform to provide remote monitoring bio and everything yeah the bio vitals bio unit is going to provide

bio monitoring of your biosigns yeah um it's just metal gas solid shit now i hate it when my bio vitals are permanently biocompromised to a permanent man i didn't want to have a heart attack in my braces i was going snake snake the kernel they're played by mike we all getting sucked off by an app so what i think about this right is that like it's i saw this on twitter recently right where someone took apart a digital pregnancy test and saw that it was just a sort of moisture sensor on a normal pregnancy test it was just it has this digital wrapper around it you know and for me it's the it's kind of the same thing right where it's like we're kind of it yeah it's continuous monitoring of a wearable sure but mostly you're still just

kind of using it in many cases to like try to deny care to people or to yeah the luxury version of this which is the ring that they're giving nba athletes in the bubble um or were until the strike started anyway uh which was going to literally it was supposed to measure all of their vital signs and what it turns out to be is just it's just a pulse oximeter it's just the thing you can buy for like a tenor uh and stick on your finger well hey they say you know they're wearable predicts heart failure 14 days prior uh to a heart attack no it doesn't no it doesn't that that's not a thing that's medically possible alice let me give you a little retort ai money please if you say it enough times

so yeah that was i want to do a little quick start up just to celebrate the return of the soft of the soft bank vision fun too i mean we're doing 2019 now forever i'm going to be thinking about predicting heart attacks two weeks in advance for the next like couple of days and it's going to make me furious every time what type of range is predicting heart attacks two weeks in advance is something that fsb is very good at yeah oh yeah just to make their technology work they use the heart attack gun that just injects you with no shock two weeks after it sets off the thing just get like get their numbers up oh no it appears from your bracelet that someone has put a nerve agent in your tea you should get that checked out lots of people die from this

so i want to first i i have a i want to turn to any now i want to ask her how do you go about getting adrena chrome out of a child yeah i actually had a guy um at the london rally explain this to me in great detail oh no there's never a garlic press all i know is it's something to do with something called i have never heard of this this term before research in q anon and now i feel like i read it every day um the pineal gland oh yeah this is fear and loathing in las vegas getting out of control yeah yeah and i didn't realize that q anon was such a big cartesian jewelists so what's so what's so what's going on how are we actually do it let's do it like a how are we nigella lossening some adrena chrome into a uh a summer cocktail for our into a zoo

for our like wealthy guests um i don't know they they they talk about it getting extracted uh so kind of the way i imagine it working is like a really big syringe um but you would think this is something i've often thought about why children because surely they've got a smaller pineal gland than adults would it's probably like veal you know it's or or salon you know it's like a sinful delicacy i heard that they have to be scared you basically have to terrorize the children and then their pineal gland secretes the adrena chrome yeah it's it's yeah so they have to be that they have to be scared but like you know adults get scared too right so they're not really the same you know yeah yeah maybe you're right like it's like a pura kind of being scared

you get like an aoc it's like it's like a what a monster zinc right i like the idea that this conspiracy has taken root in people's brains because the people who believe it can only conceive of childhood is permanent terror for some reason let's say a lot about who this is yeah so if you if you didn't guess by the adrena chrome question we are going to talk about q and on for the balance of our time here um because you know balance we're going to talk about q and we're going to control the c davie yeah um so we are we are going to we're going to speak about this um i want to talk about just to give ourselves a little context if you're listening to this you probably know what q and on is but just in case let's do a little bit of a table setting

the way i understand it and he please correct me if i'm wrong um is that q and on is the conspiracy theory that explains why to the people who decided trump was a god emperor their lives still suck that well we need to understand so trump is this god emperor we got him in we got our victory oh shit all of these things that would they were promising all these things i was dreaming of just haven't come true and so they're neat it may they're need to be like something has to be keeping these things from happening yeah yeah so that's that's a fair assessment so yeah so it explains essentially why as you say nothing really seems to be happening by sort of saying oh there's this kind of cova war happening behind the scenes between um trump

against the deep state and the kind of forces of darkness of hillary clinton and uh humor abadine and yeah all of the kind of other democratic party officials i love that they is like yeah humor abadine the woman whose entire job was to just like get yelled at by hillary and bring her gum is to bring her her psychotic lunch order of a hot dog with no bun you have to you have to yell otherwise she won't secrete the adrenochrome that's right yeah humor abadine was just like an adrenochrome blood bag for hillary you know it's really funny is that like part of the reason why uh like cheese pizza and things of that nature have become accepted as like code for pedophilia in q anon is because john podesta and humor abadine was so fucking weird about food in

their emails so like john podesta would like write an email that was like mmm going to enjoy some delicious cheese pizza today when it was like to all indications about eating a delicious cheese pizza because like all of these people are in a very fit like metaphorical sense reptiles and so they just talk like that yeah can i ask any the the humor abadine angle is this because uh there has to be a secret muslim conspiracy angle in q anon or is it because she was married to anthony weiner or is it just her proximity to hillary i think it's just her proximity to hillary so the reason i i i remember humor abadine's name is because i've literally just finished today reading this really long like uh facebook exchange on um one of the uk q anon groups um which is a great

start which is a save that saved the children group where someone is trying to explain this background someone who i would say is like fully pro q anon is sort of trying to explain all of this background too um i would say i guess the more like soft believers who were kind of there for the cure for the save the children stuff but don't necessarily i suppose um not necessarily on board with all of the kind of donald trump and maga aspect of it which is sort of fair enough because they're they're from the uk and this stuff isn't really relevant to them um and so the reason i mentioned humor abadine is because there's a supposed videotape of humor abadine and hillary clinton um killing a child um which yeah they they've sort of like it's a bit of

q anon like lost frazzle drip frazzle drip yeah we'll be on e-bombs world come on which is a kind of like lost artifact um of kind of q anon belief i suppose so they all talk about people they know who have seen it um people who they trust who have seen it but no one has you know actually seen it themselves things it's on a usb drive but if you lift the usb drive off of the little plinth that it's on then a bowler rolls down so i think it's worth it's it's worth understanding right that this this conspiracy has gone in phases we started as as you mentioned any with p with pizza gate just the release of these emails and the fact that all of these dnc insiders are so bizarre that they can't talk about eating a cheese pizza and unusually specific about it

what it was it oh yeah i remember what it was it was like oh i found a handkerchief is that pizza related yes i exactly just like the massive i emoji opens yeah anyway so we have pizza gate stage one stage two is there is this conspiracy around and i think it was i think it was actually might be milton freeman said this is that when in a time of crisis people pick up the ideas that are on the table and pizza gate was there on the table and it got picked up by uh by a lot of the people who are promoting it to explain why well trump sort of was not not like you know giving everyone millions and millions of dollars if they voted for him and and just in nuking hollywood and things and that's when you got the q drops which was where on on h n uh this mysterious

shadowy figure named q would provide these like drops of information which were very cryptically phrased stupidly cryptically phrased but nonetheless about like the deep state and the storm which is this like uh i suppose uh great conflagration between trump and the deep state i guess it's really yeah it truly does prove the phrase about the devil making work for idle hands you know when you only have to make like an exploding pen for james bond once every four years you're going to get up to all kinds of shit on the internet so then i then we move into what i tend to think of is queuing on phase two which has been which is all of this stuff was sort of bubbling away in the background but then phase two happens after coronavirus where everyone

suddenly is scared and poor and they're in a very precarious situation but they're also ridiculously bored and on the computer all it's also a kind of distributed q right because at some point and in between your sort of your phase two and your phase three the actual q drops like the people who are writing these things just kind of get bored and like lose control of it um and and so now you just get all of these sort of like um a deuterocanonical q texts that appear and like you find q drops that like start copying other things and it starts going into this wider conspiracy ecosystem and then it just pulls in everyone and so that's how you get these huge rallies that pull in fascists and turfs and conspiracy theorists and david ike and uh

jeremy corbin's psycho brother uh and so on and so on it's it's just total like meltdown it rules yeah i mean i guess one of uh i think like the main strengths of the q anon conspiracy theory um is that it is about current events um in a way that like i think lots of conspiracy theories often aren't there about like this fixed point in the past so like i'm thinking of things like i don't know like the jfk assassination or uh 9 11 or you know all about this like one specific event but if q anon is about what's actually happening then it has this like amazing ability just to kind of like consume every conspiracy theory that like keeps on cropping up and just being like yep that's part of it that's part of it um which is why i think they have made such

other connection as alice points out um but particularly in the uk here with the vaccine skeptics um which is a kind of like a strange alliance but totally makes sense when you kind of look at like how um how a q anon operates um but also just like i suppose like the uk's own kind of specific weird sort of conspiracy quirks i suppose um so the kind of anti-vaccination movement is like really popular in the uk um and it's especially strong on facebook groups and particularly parenting groups um which i think is why q anon in the uk has really got this distinctive character of um you know the rally i went to a couple of weeks ago was mostly women many many mothers with young children you know and they were often they were all a lot of them

were very new age you know as well they kind of didn't they sort of didn't have this sort of kind of fundamentalist christian side that you see in the um some of the us examples they were kind of much more i think sort of on the kind of you know talking to me about things like crystal healing and kind of uh one woman introduced herself as a being a reiki shaman um and yeah kind of talking about sort of meditative stuff and all of this stuff i have like no familiarity with whatsoever and i wasn't really expecting it so it was quite interesting i wonder if that's like one of the reasons why q anon is like the a lot of growth is sort of accelerated from facebook right where like suddenly you have all these groups of like so one of the things that um i had seen i i i had

written this piece about astrology like at some point last year and the first kind of interaction i had with like proper q anon stuff was um when i was watching this facebook live show uh which was all about like astrology and new age um and the way that they the way that like i described it to friends was like what if you had like call me daddy but you had to um like the call you can call me daddy podcast but what what if you had to like um new age people who would just talk about like spiritual spirituality and wellness and kind of like finding your inner femininity but also sort of mentioning all the stuff about how if you're not careful like you know you don't know what type of chemicals you know uh companies of government contracts are putting into food to like

mess with your kids brains and everything and like the thing that i've kind of been thinking about recently is how facebook has kind of been this really ideal crucible for this type of i i don't even know ever you can call it a conspiracy theory but rather like just a 10 like a type of posting tendency where you have lots of distrust and lots of kind of um disparate conspiracy theories are all kind of congealed into one thing and they all like reinforce each other um and as a result like you end up having people who not only kind of more firmly believe like in the batch at conspiracy theories are easily disprovable but the fact that even trying to disprove or debunk these things doesn't even matter and you end up like classically brand energy

and when you end up getting into this place where everything feels so absurd but it's like okay well if i'm going to try like debunk you or in some cases um like there's been like a recent uh thing about um people who are trying to figure out what the hell do they do with their family members who have like fallen down Q and on holes and stuff and it's like well it's not that i can't disprove him but i just don't really know where to start because they suddenly like it's not just one conspiracy theory they've latched on to they're latching on to like so many different things as a and which which feels like it's so far removed from like even kind of pizza gate stuff yeah absolutely um yeah it was kind of something i really noticed at the rally in london was um

how quickly it kind of folded over into these sorts of i suppose yeah i kind of almost don't want to call them conspiracy theories because like some of them were positions i agree with so for instance you know there were lots of antiprints andrew signs they actually ended up outside the buckingham palace yelling pedophile and i mean if it was solely that if it was just like like this huge griefing campaign for the royal family just for their kind of like involvement with epstein and everything like that i kind of wouldn't have a problem with them do you know like how do you not kind of uh become vulnerable to that when there are things like prince andrew allegedly being a massive pedophile that are like pretty much like

accepted facts now and you like if the if the actual prime minister then says about it oh yeah he's above reproach don't worry about it how do you not like go fully off the deep end into like you cannot trust anybody except i guess these facebook groups yeah right that's the thing it's not just fusing in conspiracy theories you know with other conspiracy theories it's fusing in conspiracy theories with like things that are basically true and we just can't do anything about them do you know i was going to say that you know years ago the first time i read umberto echoes or fascism i think the one that was the hardest one for me to comprehend or at least to sort of contextualize in the regular everyday world was the first point which is basically talking about

new age syncreticism as an aspect of fascism nazis loved it exactly and and the idea that you know that that that knowledge is finite and that all knowledge has been discovered already and has to be rediscovered and that there was an ancient knowledge that people understood better than modern practices and the syncretism the idea of melding it with contemporary things i guess i wasn't really super clued into like how that what that would look like and i think you know going to i spent some time in hawaii and like an area where people were really into like living in the jungle and you know using healing crystals and not taking medicine and stuff and that i sort of got an idea but this also seems like a manifestation of that that what any what you're saying is on

one hand you have groups of people who are legitimately you know purchasing grievances that aren't being addressed by the sort of protective nature of the british establishment but then you've also got people who believe in a lot of you know crunchy things you know candles and you know fucking burning sage and to to clear out bad spirits and shit but then also i didn't say any bad spirits in here do you some some you know then the overarching internet conspiracy theory that also is directly sort of part and parcel tied to the idea that donald trump is both you know flawless and chosen by god so it really is a right-wing conspiracy theory but like it's gaining traction with people that would you think wouldn't be i could i have been hearing

about god people talk about him i hear i hear he's a very big fan of mine listen i don't know god personally i've not i've heard him say he thinks i'm a great guy look i welcome his support okay god god you're okay you know you know what you know q and on feels like to me it feels metastatic and what i mean by that is it feels as if it is just like percolating through uh all of these other separate things totally like unfettered uh and it doesn't have to be cohesive it doesn't have to be connected to anything else it can all still be part of this same whole even as it just like shows up in unexpected areas at the worst times i i i kind of been trying to think about how do you define something that is purely um it's purely a reaction right because

and you look at what it's a reaction to and i think if we talk to it let's let's remember the startup we were talking about at the very beginning and this i think especially goes back to the q and on anti vax connection the q and on crystal healing connection whatever the startup we're talking about the beginning is the direction a lot of medicine is going which is more objective more removed the patient more disempowered um more and where you are the adrenochrome extracted you're the subject of a system you don't understand that frequently and for reasons you don't understand tells you no no no of the materialist analysis of this says well the system is telling you know for reasons of say class composition but if you don't have a materialist analysis then you look at

this obscure alienating strange inscrutable system constantly telling you no to things either you don't know why you're getting sicker you don't know why you can't seem to get a job you don't know why you can't get your kids in the class you don't know why any of these things are happening and so just as just as you can reach for a healing crystal because you don't trust your doctor you can reach for q and on because you don't trust anyone on the tv anymore except your friends and what's and what's so seductive about q and on is that it's participatory right you can uncover the truth you can help donald trump defeat the deep state you have agency in something where in a lot of times computer game you play at primary school it's exactly donald trump

defeat the pedophile conspiracy it's zork no no no it's not it's not it's exactly what it exactly is is an arg did you ever play one of those they used them as tie-ins for movies and stuff yeah i've been advertised to through an arg you get to like play a little game and you find a thing you put in a website and it was before qr codes yeah and it makes you like feel as if you're being a detective and that's that's very like engaging particularly to people who do not like who feel that they are denied and feel not without reason that they're denied any kind of agency in their lives and that they're in the fall of this kind of malign overpowering system so any what i'd like to ask you is going beyond sort of q and on generally something we've touched on which is how it's

fused with different strands in the uk sort of different anti-establishment strands it's like quite often mothers and quite often anti-vaxxers or crystal healing people or whatever it has taken a strangely long time to my mind for q and on to come over here and finally start becoming a political tendency is at number one am i right to say that and number two why what what is the nature of q and on's relationship with britain yeah so it's really interesting because i agree with you even though the evidence kind of doesn't back us up but i think so i think there's two different things that are going on here so the uk since the beginning since the first q drop so 2017 i think that was has been like pretty consistently the like a country with the

second highest q and on social media activity having said that when i first like joined the q and on an anonymous podcast and they wanted me to be their british correspondent i kind of said like guys i don't really know if like i'll just be kind of repeating what you guys are saying because it doesn't really have its own kind of distinct national character necessarily here do you know it was just kind of people talking about the same stuff it didn't really feel like it was seeping into into our politics or into our kind of like real day-to-day lives in the same way that it was in the u.s but i think this has massively changed over lockdown and i think there's kind of several reasons for that you know it was kind of the point you made very early on

you said something about how people you know q and on simply has a bigger captive audience now just because of how many people have been stuck at home on the computer everyone's been checking the news and checking the social media more as well kind of heightened sense of panic in general but also i think it just was also a perfect time for you know the kind of vaccine skeptics who have talked about who were already kind of starting to make these tentative kind of like series about 5g towers and that sort of thing so they were already starting to gain a bit more prominence and i think that was a really a really happy alliance for q and on there that they could kind of like fold that in and suddenly get a much bigger platform on kind of uk social media

um so yeah i know what you mean um and i agree um but i think that's the main difference is that it's always been here but now it's kind of actually becoming a much bigger force and kind of our i suppose political cultural life because i've got the so i listened to sort of some of your recordings of the q and on britain rally uh in the fantastic podcast q and on anonymous which we have often been on and they've been on here and you should listen to um and what the thing that really struck out for me here really stuck out was the extent to which it's so different in character from the american q rallies the american q rallies are all impending violence a storm is coming a change is coming look out we're coming for you whereas the the british one i actually

caught us down it says we the woman on stage said we are telling people how we feel and that is going to change the world you are safe you are protected you are loved there's work going on in underground tunnels that most people have no idea about i mean but for the last sentence that's basically extinction rebellions pitch too yeah and the last sense is just a correct statement about the brave people who clean the sewers or hs too yeah yeah and also the other quote it quote was a woman bemoaning when did the world become so hard referring to her belief that the world was a cruel place that was abducting and killing and killing children for their adrenochrome but i think it also be understood as an expression of like of like i'm of i'm profoundly lost and

alone and lonely so that's why i think where yes you might see the american q and on or at least in the early stages had the characteristics of an arg i kind of think that the british q and on or q and on as it is now for me the more i sort of look into it the more i read the foreings i also look at the forums and the twitter and stuff it's more about a feeling of a feeling of finding a feeling of community in a very alienated world and just doing so in a way that's fucking insane because this is a thing about like i think there's like a certain thing about british internet culture and by this i mean like the kind of like mad gen X and boomer sort of facebook brit like like if you're a facebook boomer in the us right like the way in which you're a facebook

boomer is like mad conspiracy theories like obama is a muslim like that kind of level whereas if you're a facebook boomer here so much of it is like being in weird groups like oh do you remember the milkman and like having this like odd like my sister came for dinner the other night and my sister is like kind of my remember the 10 million briley did you see the thing recently about like the hunt that thousands of you're complaining about oh bin men were proper odd back in the day like just huge if a bin man was shagging your wife you couldn't stop him because he'd knock you out 10 million british bins 10 million british people all getting together it's taking your course yes we remember the milkman literally fucking literally that facebook group

you guys of course you get radicalized by a facebook group that's like you probably heads down thumbs up oh fuck but yeah so yeah my sister who is like she's gen x and she's kind of my like portal into like the facebook boomer world because she claims to hate facebook but she spends so much time on it and she joins these fucking groups like she's currently doing a slimfast which is something i thought had died with the 90s but apparently this sort of thing and she's joined the slimfast uk facebook group and she was showing me some posts from in there and they is like people have like made meals that they're recommending that you also try making and you're looking at this picture and you're like i cannot identify what that's supposed to be and then

also a lot of people just taking picture of the scales where they've weighed themselves that just like includes their feet but like they're not feet you should include in a picture like also also i think there's a parallel right but with turfs and i'm gonna keep coming back to this because there's like the same the same recruising ground of like reiki chakra's wellness middle-aged women and it's one of the reasons why mumsnet became this huge recruising ground right was because it was a place that offered community and it was in objectively insane ways like the most famous mumsnet thread before it got all radical was about a guy who washed his penis in a beaker that they kept on the nightstand after sex right but like it's it's very easy to go from that kind

of harmless weirdness to a much more to a much darker place the beaker was sort of adrenochrome that's right the place where you find the weirdest stuff are in facebook groups that are kind of about animals um that's what like that's what i found anyway but like you'll join you'll join like a group of people who just say that they have like border collies as like pets or whatever and like the amount of kind of conspiracy theories that happens in these pet groups also because the one thing that you can guarantee and like if you go into any newsroom and stuff like any news person will tell you this the one thing that always gets clicks are stories to do with like people who have been suspected of like abusing animals or selling animals um you know and i

feel like that's kind of where and like one thing i noticed when i was like looking at like british q and on stuff recently was that so much stuff actually came like so much stuff intersected with like the anti-vax of things but also um just like the whole um just even kind of veering into like islamophobic and anti-semitic conspiracy theories are all to do with like sacrifice like killing animals and vegetarianism and like or not even vegetarianism just like abusing animals and like how um you know this is something this is like part of the elite's plan to kind of like remove um and make us all eat like artificial meat and everything so it's quite interesting to see how like these very kind of old tried and tested um things are like

why is why is george soros trying to get me to vaccinate my german shepherd personally i love to log on to a facebook group called dog lovers uk brackets proper english and the first post i see is a 3000 comment thread under a post that says like how is it that clifford the big red dog is that big and that red it's not possible it must be someone's behind it and then 300 posts later then someone says well yes soros wants to vaccinate you but it's bill gates that'll control you all of these people have a german shepherd named prince because the one called sheba died what i was what i was going to say was that like if we're kind of looking into like even though this all feels very novel i feel like actually the um the kind of gen x

tendency to kind of really get stoked and riled up online over things that are like either evidently fake or are the very kind of like a very charitable level like mostly untrue with like maybe like you know a pepper or like maybe kind of like a little sprinkling of true yeah um you know the reason like all this stuff is kind of like conditioning right all this stuff is things that this generation has kind of been conditioned to get mad about and all of a sudden they've now like that kind of anger has been placed inside a system that the media has no control over and basically no one has control like even social media companies don't have control over like all this built up anger that is like sort of and now perversely like the bbc bends before the whims

of a facebook group called yo you remember ground force that's right so i want to i want to pull us back charlie dinkin would no not charlie dinkin but what's her name charlie charlie dinkin is just a person i know not her before you move forward riley i just have a quick question any the one thing that i was wondering just really quickly from your observations of this as the correspondent and also having seen it in person is if i were to hazard a guess what a q and on style event in britain would look like i would expect that there would be some uh transphobia grooming gang hysteria and islamophobia did you encounter selling juice plus it was charlie by the way oh yeah fuck an incredibly british name i've been wanting to ask that question as well nate that you're asking

which is this seems to me to be two different conspiracies about child child abuse is the grooming gags uh conspiracies because the grooming gang shit i see all the time with kind of like durange boomer twitter and things along those lines and i was just wondering like when that manifests in person any did you because q and on i'm sure i mean you've got that in the sense of the sort of evangelical kind of milleniarian kind of craziness about it but in britain it's always pronounced in a really like fourth right way i was wondering if you encountered that yeah i was really interested by that question myself um and like it's sort of one of those things where i can't not see those two things fusing together and i think even at the rally

even though it wasn't overt so you know in direct answer no no one brought up grooming gangs um nobody yeah nobody kind of brought up kind of like a um yeah kind of uh transgender issues or anything like that although i think that alice is right and that there is like a turf connection there which i think i'll go into in a little bit more if i've got time um but there were signs that i felt like i was picking up on which sort of showed to me that this was eventually going to fuse with that culture so for one thing you know there was a point when everyone just suddenly started chanting defund the bbc um which like i have my own issues with the bbc there's i have my own issues with the bbc and i imagine you guys do too um but i sort of got

the feeling that they weren't the same issues and one of the reasons for this was i saw somebody holding up a sign that said bbc bigots bumming children and i kind of saw okay that guy's ripping off my t-shirts i have the copyright on that but the thing is like this is not about like their institutional protection of jimmy savill this is not the actual thing they actually did yeah this is never about the real thing no it's because dick and domar on tv and that sounds a little bit too dangerous for me yeah why is it that they won't put ground force back on tv it's because of the annances um charlie dimick knows where the annances are a neg silencing her so i think but i the we do not know that she knows that officially i don't i i i sort of

understood that these i sort of i it's not surprising me that like that these different conspiracies about all that all center on child abuse are separate because they're all because the point is never the child abuse it's just that child abuse is the most evil thing these people can imagine yeah because in a collaborative storytelling exercise the biggest boldest highest stakes story always wins and so it's just stakes escalation where it's like i heard they're sacrificing children i heard they're sacrificing children to satan i heard they're eating their brains and then it becomes the biggest most dangerous highest stakes thing and it's always one big reveal after big reveal because it's structured like a narrative and

it's trying to impose a narrative structure on reality which is not a narrative i mean it reminds me a lot of the satanic panic daycare stuff from america in the 80s and 90s which i'm a little too young to remember in its heyday but i do remember here in canada yeah i remember hearing some of it you know even when i was old enough to have like you know childhood memories of the news and this the this i think plays to a similar fear but it just it gets more fantastic and more kind of free form in a way i mean if the satanic panic people who were convinced like you know daycares were playing judas priest records backwards and you know having weird orgies with kindergartners if they had access to the internet the way people do now and social

media the way people do now i think you would see something similar it's just this is a manifestation of that tendency in my opinion at least just yeah absolutely and they in fact they actually like use those materials as well like you still get clips of like kind of satanic panic era news footage and stuff like that it gets posted in these facebook groups as like you know proof proof of the theory you know like look how long this has been going on blah blah blah so i was going to say that connection i think is like it's it's not just there in terms of kind of like you know all of this has happened before it's actually like getting repurposed for the new conspiracy theory because like the the essence of this right and this is why i'm so interested

as to what it looks like when it comes to britain right because you know as much as you know we like to say that they're similar these are these are even as much as britain as americanized they are still profoundly different places with profoundly different national psyches yeah and whereas like the american save our children rally is you know like a medical technician from grand rapids holding a you know heavy sniper rifle in front of their child that says not for sale the british version has seemed a lot more overtly polite and nice and deferential but still very and very much about like um and and it is and i think this is why i actually think it's almost more dangerous as it as it comes in over here because it will slide into the national

consciousness it's respect this middle class and that's why it's in the telegraph now yeah i have a copy of that article but any please go ahead i was gonna say well this is really what frightens me about it because like at the heart of q anon is this just like very very like scary very frightening kind of slightly fascist conspiracy theory which is like it's a sex panic do you know as someone else pointed out it's a sex panic without any kind of like analysis of kind of like um i don't know kind of like capital or feminism or anything like that anything which might kind of like explain these power structures so it's incredibly volatile um and it's it's really i think it kind of has this very sort of scary ideology at the heart of it um but it's also you can't do the typical

anti you can't do the typical anti fascist demonstrations against a bunch of mums who were just sticking up for child sex abuse victims right like it's kind of it's just not really going to work um it's not like it wouldn't be helpful um and also it's it but if it's so much more kind of seductive that way and it's so much less obviously mental that way it kind of just has this really soft front um just from the way it's manifested in the uk um and yes i think somebody i can't remember who brought up that kind of really nice sort of like attitude with saying you're safe you're protected you know all of this kind of very sort of like feminine very kind of welcoming style of like speaking um but the end of the day it is still a sex panic which just doesn't

you know which we know historically do not end well um for kind of people who sort of like sexuality is already kind of you know deemed as sort of deviant so you know trans people muslim people especially in this country um you know like homeless people anything else you know um so it really i yeah i guess i'm i really do want to kind of push the idea that it needs to be taken seriously and we can't just go oh well you know they're not waving ak's around and you know saying that trump is the god emperor so uh it's it's a bit nicer over here do you know the one thing i wanted to throw in really quickly before you move on to the the telegraph article was just i think for me something as an outsider in this country that has always surprised me is

the extent to which there's a lot of conspiracy theories there's a lot of stuff that turned out to be untrue or exaggerated but there's also a lot of stuff that turned out to be a hundred percent true with regard to uh the british elite protecting elite pedophiles and child abuse gangs especially in the middle of the 20th century but even up until recently and rather him gets brought up a lot because of the the you know islamophobia angle in the sense of of being able to it's it's it's the it's the sin george's cross twitter wet dream in a way because it's it's like a labor council refuses because they don't want to be racist against these invaders who are colonizing our children you know that kind of shit but i feel as though in a way this there was already a sex

panic about grooming gangs and about organized child abuse in this country most much of it based on true events or or but but uh sort of exoticized in a huge way that in my opinion overlooks the extent to which this isn't a problem of either you know the the the racist your dad argument is there's there's there's too many damn muslims they're doing this but like no the majority of these cases are being perpetrated by white people against white people they want these people to integrate into british society and then as soon as they start noncing they don't like it you know pig what do you want but i guess that's the point right is that what myla just said even in joke form is that because this is a problem that's so common to me at least like as long as the framing is

specifically around protecting victims of child abuse and preventing child abuse i can see this gaining a lot of traction but you know i feel like the concern that i have obviously is that like nothing q and on demonstrates that stuff can be so patently false and imaginary like level of like david d's photoshop cartoons about like fucking how 5g is going to turn your brain into ants i'm not joking and and yet people are going to believe it and i just i shudder to think of what that's going to look like in a country that already seems primed for meltdown like britain you know especially downscale britain you know what my brain would be better if it was ants have a go it can't make it any worse come on huawei turn my brain into ants maybe they cooperate and

make something better before we go on to the the mainstream media point as well i just want to say that you the thing to remember at any i'm also going to add something to what you said here is that q and on's not just a sex panic it's also a fantasy about the deployment of the state using violent force to kill everyone you don't like and it is a justification you're seeing that more and more in the states of people just taking that into their own hands and so if you want to talk about syncreticism yet there is a new age syncreticism over here but there is a right wing malicious syncreticism that again i think it's a only a matter of time in the states that i think it's only a matter of time before we get our volunteer border force and i would also throw

i mean we i would also throw in the fact that the united states at least the the really violent incredibly fundamental fundamentalist christian sort of strain of this is something that's already been kind of contended with in politics i mean you have a um uh there was a politician in washington state like a state representative who was basically if i'm not mistaken a member of an organization that like wanted to overthrow the government establish a christian theocracy and kill all non-christians in america he also hilariously had a had a policy that like uh he made his wife always had to walk like five steps into the left of him and he carried a sword everywhere he went no he's making a point about jfk because his wife has to be back into the left but but the

point is going to cut through some cowboy boots and there's going to be me in there but the point the point i'm making there is that in the u.s i mean like that so in that regard if q and on takes on those tendencies in america that's also a reflection of a tendency that already exists in america and the sort of dark heart of like you know fucking bin collection politics of brit like bin collection fascism i shudder to think what's that going to look like when this kind of morphs with it and also we know that our brit the british media will do a really really good job of protecting against it because of which we are now going to say yeah alice you alluded to the telegraph earlier yeah which posted an article still up by the way and they ret conned an article

from a couple of years ago to make reference about how pizza gates not real to make reference to this article saying but it's a bit real i can't wait before we get into this until the new director general of the bvc makes every panelist on have i got news for you q that would be better i would actually be better i would watch that i would actually watch that but so this was from the telegraph it was following a bathtub it was from the have you seen a pedophile in my bathtub yes it's dave clifton wasn't there wasn't a bad portrait so the enigma machine strikes again so this is from when these are sex panic so it starts the telegraph this article is from the 28th of august of this year and the headline is pedophiles using cheese and pizza emojis as a secret

code on social media and my keyboard smells of hammers yeah cheese and pizza emojis are being used as a secret code by pedophiles to communicate on social media sites such as instagram and twitter online safety groups are warned why don't they just use the dm's no but the smart pedophile would use you know dm's or email or something you know it was probably not public for you a call maybe you could use the lemon juice invisible link that would be pretty smart so a group most kids know how to do that too they could teach you a group of more than 100 volunteers and parents has banded together to hunt down and report accounts so that's a class that's a future britannology is the volunteer pedophile hunter and report accounts using the emoji to signal that

they are sharing sexualized user images of children every emoji is a possible vector of child abuse and there's like hundreds of them yeah but like yeah the thing is right this is just a number one it's a reference to pizza gate this is just a reference to pizza gate number two it's also said oh but yeah but there's actually one that is doing this so it's a pizza gate it's a softening of pizza gate it's a legitimation it says no we're just trying to protect children just asking questions it is the soft sell of a conspiracy theory about that really is the people who you politically dislike uh as we're just trying to protect the children all right let's just don't like him yeah any i assume you saw this telegraph article uh what do you think of it yeah

um yeah i mean like yeah i was stunned to be honest like wasn't it written by like the telegraphs like social media correspondent or something like that the telegraph social media correspondent you know yeah people send me many emojis on the wireless this guy's a young guy like i thought that this was just like an old dude but like had maybe been given a story that was like a bit over his head but no this guy is a young guy who like hosts like semi-regularly online oh yeah but like the thing is right he's like friends reunited and everything that's right fundamentally right you you can't any any attempt to explain creeping fascism which make no mistake this is this is a very soft manipulation of it yeah galloping maybe um

but any any any attempt to sort of do that with reference to oh to someone being um say young or with it or smart or stupid or whatever it's always going to fall flat because that's trying because that always imagines that fascism is somehow a mistake or something that can be avoided or corrected no it's a political tendency with political aims and the telegraph is a fascist paper this guy just then went ahead and posted and and and posted an article that was consistent with the overall aims of the paper to make britain a more more right-wing place love to work in the big fascia the big ideology uh the big ideology factory with the dial turned to fascism now you spend all day sniffing and turning the ideology dial right so they they say the development

has prompted a former government child safety advisor to warn parents to avoid sharing images of their children on social media in case they are stolen and traded oh damn they're like pokemon cards now what what does a government like advisor in this capacity do because every government seems to have a half dozen of them and their only role seems to be to be quoted in like a little bit of pedophile hysteria every few months uh please please do not share any shiny images of their children oh yeah that's right also very that's what those pizza emoji guys are doing the group of parents was started by a woman from london named india cool yeah normal so we again we talked about again this is a i think india is a pretty middle class name not everyone name was a

victim of trafficking yeah right and so the idea is yeah she stumbled across child's image accounts on social media and then set up twitter instagram pages called predict protect pd dedicated to naming accounts she finds sharing images of children but again it's just i i'm sure that yeah there are probably a couple out here but if you do one google of cheese pizza child abuse you're gone you are if you do one google of the phrase cheese pizza child abuse because you read it in the telegraph and you're like oh maybe i should protect my children from being abused by cheese pizza people you are now taking your first step down a road that it's going to be very difficult to stop walking down and you're going to keep walking down it because yeah i'm raised with every piece of

information you learn well i mean it's also just like basically free advertising for that facebook group right so you get parents reading it and being like i want to protect my children i'd better you know like i'm a i'm an active parent i'll stay it like you know plugged into what's going on and stuff like that um and that's even that's even worse because at least if you like google chill cheese pizza child abuse or something like that you're going to get some like you know here's what q and on is here's why it's bad it whatever explainers but i mean i think the really terrible part is just like straight up just being like here's where the facebook group is you know you can get involved if you want to you ever wanted to be involved in enjoying your local pedophile

hunters yeah exactly right your country needs you it's like the home guard yeah yeah it's like oh my god dad's pedo hunters yeah can't in mannering don't tell him pike yeah the cunning pedo being like your name will also go on the list when the pedos take control so i mean they're already in control i'll wake you as fuck so last we wanted to happen oh no specifically yeah you you ref you prefigured what i mean to bring up next which is that chris chris morris possibly the last brilliant satirist in this country was just about 15 20 years too early with uh when he did pete again possibly still the funniest piece of media ever produced oh it's so good um that's would be that no that's a britannology just just pete again just putting all of the audio from pete again and

putting it up on the podcast fee being like this is pretty good huh yes it's better there's a better britannology than i could ever do that's for sure but it is like if you like what chris morris is talking about in pete again fundamentally is like is a mass reorientation of society towards like fearing imaginary pedophiles and and the whole show is a satire of like action in-depth news programs that cause you to like be terrified and feel powerless so you'll keep watching it's just the satire came too early it was in 2000 2000 or 2001 i think yeah people got very upset it got the show it got the show cancelled that was the first episode of the second season and after that they were like nope no more yeah and hey that that's but that's a victim of

cancel culture yeah that exactly how i got news for you accidentally helped make boris johnson prime minister chris morris actually did satirize something real which is that this country is very very um vulnerable to mass hysteria specifically about their children yeah but would you rather have that kind of insight or would you rather have season 600 of paul merton raising his eyebrows well if we can want to take this even further with the mainstream media thing right it's not just the telegraph where with the whole like growth of um with tim davie the like you know tory counselor coming in and taking over the bbc okay number one my another conspiracy theory i i now fully believe is that the last night of the prom's fake controversy was fabricated

so that tim davie could come in and make a decisive choice saying we're gonna have the lyrics to the slavery song and it's gonna and it's gonna piss off all the human rights lawyers yeah i'm pretty sure that we triggered by that we triggered by hearing rule brisannia i should hope so yeah so only because only because it wasn't followed by guba afterwards yeah so but point is right so he's come in right and he said uh this is actually from uh noted noted um noted tory mp brent ben bradley oh look at some of his look at some of his tweets please retweet on him yeah uh ben please please retweet bradley says tim davie appears to be talking a good game at sorting bias the bbc but whether it'll lead to real change time will tell i'd like to see more

right-leaning comedians given a chance rather than effectively being blacklisted for their views now what what ben bradley what ben bradley thinks he's saying is wouldn't it be great if we got boris johnson the cool guy from the tv back on have i got news for you that would be so fun but what if he got to win every engagement but what that actually means if you ask yourself where is the creative energy on the right it's all in qan han also what's really funny is that like one of the things that immediately leaked was bbc producers um who i i would say are kind of like center right lot as a rule uh going yeah well we tried booking these right wing comedians but they're not funny and when you consider how unfunny most bbc comedy is already oh boy is it

unfunny the reason i bring this up the reason i bring this up is that is that if you if you have a media culture especially one that is officially being pulled to the right by the bbc and you have the nascent qan han movement how long can you do bbc programming whether it's you know neutral news or whether you're trying to commission a comedy show before you begin getting little references to qan han here and there man like mobeen joins a grooming gang i oh for fuck's sake i'm i'm i was gonna say i'm very excited for like stacey duly having to like go into the heart of qan han and then ending up becoming radicalized afterwards which is also like there's also like another thing that i feel like we haven't really faxed in which is that like um you know media producers who

also get radicalized by this like level of information um and you know if the if depending on what the bbc decides to do but if they are basically going to like take qan han stuff a lot more seriously including like taking advocates of qan han stuff seriously like it may not be inconceivable that you have people within the organization who are like yep you know this you know pizza references they do check out and they definitely do deserve like a 15 minute segment on news night um that's right more so than like another segment on homelessness or like refugees like drowning and drowning in the mediterranean news night which is now hosted by the trigger pod guys i mean basically yeah basically basically i'm interested to hear what

you what you had to say on this about the about like this phenomenon yeah i mean like you know i think there's precedent already they'd like you know uh was it like news night or i can't remember some bbc news program where they interviewed that guy from generation identity right after news night oh yeah normal yeah right after like the christ church shooting and they just kind of like you know sat down and chatted to him for like 10 to 15 minutes you know there's absolutely no reason why they wouldn't do that with like a kind of qan han thought leader right and you know of course they'll kind of have this sort of like um you know they're kind of uh they're balanced they're kind of academic god it'll probably be me um who has to go on there and be like this is preposterous

absolutely no evidence um but you know it doesn't that's sort of the bbc's game right that's what they do yeah and the two great heroes of bbc credulity news night and radio four and between the two of those that that just anybody like and so i thoroughly look forward to hearing about the secret tunnels and john humphrey's going yeah well the thing is you're gonna have it's going to be on some bbc news or radio program where you have annie debating the qanong guy but then the debate won't be complete until someone phones in and go listen talking about annonces is all very well and good but my kettle is louder than my lawn mower um a reference to something we said on a different podcast we recorded today but also a reference to just

what every british piece of radio is like i think right like because the thing is you know political movements adapt to their the environment they're in you know the tufton street industrial complex of the different like reactionary think tanks that we've talked about i think last year or whatever that doesn't exist in the way that it does without the british media's obsession with trying to find balance on its panel shows all the time it's like a little incubator for people to go on and just say whatever shit accords with you know the furthest right americanized institution of what britain could be and so i do not i i would not be surprised all that would have to happen right is for someone to have a facebook group with a mailing address and all

of a sudden they're an institution maybe they're a registered charity maybe they're a company and then the bbc or sky or whatever well that's just for a panel show that's literally just what the taxpayers alliance are the tufton street industrial complex at any number of these things and one thing i will say just to kind of like wrap up my feelings on this is that like you see occasionally on the left people are like otherwise otherwise smart people will say oh well the reason why republicans or why conservatives are going so crazy is that they've lost the culture war and so this is like the only thing that they've got left because public opinion is so vastly against not so much it's a lot more mutable than i think those people realize and this is perhaps like

sort of a counter offensive here that we should be extremely concerned about it's not public opinion it's like polite society public opinion right it's like it's like the media class public opinion where like you know they they hate the like the naughty rude racism but they also hate just so long as those people don't have a massive role in shaping the views and like actions of the public as a whole we should be fine i mean i would say something too is that i mean one thing that i think conspiracies like this and this is sort of my final thought conspiracy theories like this and conspiracy theory movements if you will they oftentimes bring people out who aren't necessarily invested in or engaged by party politics and electoralism and you know just like

the normal sort of public opinion or you know public barometer you might describe as far as like what a cultural moment is and so in a way yeah even if the republicans have lost the culture war with regard to like their hot button issues that got them elected in 2004 that doesn't necessarily mean that you know there isn't a large significant population of people who fall for this shit and become politicized by it and if you know you're already seeing qanon open a vocal qanon supporters qanon participants in america you know winning republican primaries things along those lines what does that look like in britain i mean probably not that different than some of the we've got a giant pool of like malleable unexpectedly elected tori emps in the north with

absolutely like no obligation to anyone who are also all thick as shit yeah apart from the clients at their fetid sex club and you know i mean if you want to look at that just there are now going to be uh in the form of like marjorie taylor green and several other people uh qanon believing members of the u.s house of representatives and the other thing right that this is my sort of my final thought i like for doing organized final thoughts segment there is i don't got any final thoughts the i don't know why you haven't tell me later why you feel like you have any to always but my final thought here right is that the main the fire of qanon the thick pizza gate was always just weirdos who were obsessed with the democrats that became qanon when donald trump failed to

you know fix all the problems with his business skills or whatever the belief was like whatever the religious belief was brexit has always been just around the corner here but it is all as much as you don't like to compare the two it's this is our like unexpected um right wing populist moment where the constitutional change whether it's the president or as a member of a trade bloc was expected to fix all the problems and deliver us to the sunlit uplands it hasn't happened yet and i think when it happens and it fails to deliver us to the sunlit uplands you will find a lot more of the volunteer border force football lads alliance grooming gangs guys it's going to be a lot more interesting after no deal brexit and they are going to get together i might i think

with the crunchy uh crystal vaccine moms the anti-vax moms and they're going to unite around qanon and they are going to be a very powerful and very scary political force in this country yeah also um don't fall into the trap of like wigg history of thinking that like oh i think things are on the the moral arc of the universe bends towards justice no things can get worse very quickly and uh probably will and to be honest when this happens after a no deal brexit we really are going to have to have have an uphill battle convincing these people that the belgians aren't all nonsense because so any riley has a tendency to make uh to make very declarative statements on this podcast i'm wondering what your thoughts were as we wrap up on uh on the prognostications

we've just heard um yeah pretty much i hadn't thought about the kind of brexit angle but i think that really 100% makes sense to me um like i was saying like this has moved so so fast um it really has been like such a kind of rapid sort of explosion uh which i think was kind of always going to happen um but lockdown has just kind of exacerbated so many of these trends that we could have seen coming do you know um and so yeah no i think that 100% makes sense to me um i was trying i keep on like trying to think of like a but it's not all bad news um sing but if you want to get one harder to get it's going to get harder to get now because the people who are against its harvesting are going to be in control right okay i've i've filmed a way to do good news

if you want to get rich during a gold rush sell picks and shovels right and so the good news is invest in crystal businesses yeah that's right order your official trash future crystal just that crystal we saw with the perfect triangle inside it yeah it's got a big end it's just got a big fucking day of Courtney on it a challenge crystal i just slam that shit out and like break the table anyway i don't really have any final thoughts but my i just kind of remembered that actually the whole like um you know football bases kind of joining forces with like crystal mums it's sort of already happening anyway right it's like happening like with the whole um like the uh the whole like transgender than the like the turf stuff right

yep um so you see like even kind of when you're going on to british chief chief i'm a canary which is all which is all which is all it's fun but you have like these you have you have these like what i seem to be like mums net people who like have um with like twitter accounts with like low numbers of followers and you you don't have to scroll that far down their profiles to sort of realize that they're kind of caught up in some sort of MLM scheme right or that they're involved in some sort of again pyramid scheme but it has to do with like great penis washing business opportunity for you the future is we all die in democratic football mums net alliance camps um no you know but but one of the funniest twitter things that

i've ever seen is like some actual like baz millwall guy talking about how like you know um the left just won't let him um let him believe in basic biology and that was kind of the oh fuck that's kind of a new kind of guy but that's oh no fuck football taffes bold but there's only two human genders two human genders um so you know i think cheap cheap cheap hey why is that why has that canary stopped cheaping anyway you shouldn't pay attention to that time to mine more coal at the digital call phase what the world the world belongs to football taffes um and what we're going to do is we're going to see like a bunch of it's no longer going to be like skinhead skinhead guys that run the firm it's going to be guys with just the turf banks wellness baz rides to

glory because like these are these are all these are all fundamentally compatible as as made as you said at the very beginning these these kinds of like crunchy wellness take care of each other listen to each other stuff that's all deeply compatible with fascism deeply it's the same fundamental belief it is the same is the same desire to do anything to do to to solve the problems that crop up in society with um force and and and and vigor and why by like crashing things back into shape and purification rather than simply what they think of it as purification rather than say something quite so simple as removing a little bit of capital's power um and so you know it is it is unsurprising that all of this weirdness all of this stuff that on

the surface seems like it shouldn't come together it's unsurprising to me that in britain it is because fundamentally it's in reaction to the same thing yep well right hey i i'm very excited for a version of have i got news for you or the punchline to every joke is just telling you to go into your town and discharge a weapon at a post office this is going to be great that would be a better version of if i got news for you i would respect that more yeah um but uh so i think that's that about that about does us for time uh any i want to thank you so much for coming on and talking to us today and to encourage everyone to follow you on twitter and listen to qanon anonymous yes please do that oh yeah my twitter account is locked but that doesn't really mean anything just

i'll let any anyone in and follow me that's right that's right less your account is on ironic wellness baths in which case stay away join the club wellness baths also come follow me buy my crystals that's right before we do the rest of the stuff and throw to the and throw to jin sang uh i also just want to say uh we are going to hear from someone from momentum just now uh who is actually doing something who is leading up a momentum um tenants rights campaign and anti eviction campaign i'm so annoyed that this is actually a thing because i had the drop of kia starmer saying fuck off ready to go as a punchline sorry so uh hey why don't you take us away kia starmer fuck off right so i'm here with uh darin mclaughlin from momentum who is leading up an

initiative on how to respond to the upcoming eviction crisis and darin i was hoping you could tell me exactly what you're doing and how if you listen to this episode or in the last episode of our podcast about the eviction crisis uh what you can do to help so today to rent an average one bedroom house or flat in london uh the average renter is paying 50 percent of their uh their pre-tax pay which is obviously an absurdity and you can't continue to go on so i move under kia starmer's labor we will be paying 49 percent yeah yeah exactly um it's much more moderate it's much more grown up um so bristol is actually one of the most expensive cities in the country after london and part of that is being driven by the fact there's so many londoners are getting

pushed out two places like bristol which means that all the local bristolians are getting annoyed at all these londoners coming in and then they're all moving out to a place like western super area newport um so myself and my colleagues we were elected onto the momentum national coordinating group back in june and part of our pitch when we were running was that we wanted to reorientate momentum away from kind of internal battles and labor party bureaucracy and towards organizing and getting active in communities and in workplaces so we decided our first kind of major campaign was going to be on the issue of housing which has always been a big issue for the last several years but this is only going to get worse it's going to be exacerbated by

the current crisis so the government implemented an eviction freeze on the 18th of march which is due to end on the 24th of august but it has been delayed by one month whilst they're trying to scramble around and figure out something to do because what they're facing is a kind of impossible challenge they're stuck between a rock and a hard place because they they owe their kind of ideological support to their kind of core support base which would be things like the rich and kind of like financial institutions which depend upon maintaining this kind of rentier economy but at the same time what's going to happen in the near future unless we do something about it is that there are going to be tens of thousands of ordinary british citizens evicted through no

necessarily no fault of their own so in an average year there are an average of 110,000 eviction claims going through british courts nearly 10,000 a month so in the six month period of time when there's been a freeze there would have been about 55,000 evictions that would have ordinarily taken place but obviously due to kind of covid which means that a lot of people have lost their job a lot of people have been on reduced incomes that figure is going to be much higher so according to shelter nearly a quarter of a million people are in rent deliveries since the beginning of lockdown which is almost half a million renters all together which is double the figure of last year so what we want to do is we want to mobilize momentum members to get active in fighting back

and resisting these wave of evictions and homelessness that we're about to face so we've been working in collaboration with tenants unions who've been leading this fight over the last few years such as living rent in scotland london renters union london and acorn a community union that i'm a member of which started up in bristol we've been opening up branches in towns and cities across the country so we want to encourage and motivate our members to join these unions and to take part in the training they've been running on tenants rights and eviction resistances and take part in demonstrations and direct action to kind of resist this wave of evictions that's coming and where members live where there might not be a branch yet perhaps they can get together with

other people who might be interested in starting something up and to get something up and running so we sent out an email to all of our members last week uh encouraging them to sign up as as activists and organizers in this eviction resistance so if you are a member of momentum to check your emails there the email came out uh under the name harriott prathero saltani who is one of the ncg members and if you're not a member of momentum yet i would encourage you to join um the other thing we can do which the tenants unions can't do is that we can organize within the labor party so what we want to do is get clps to be passing motions get labor members to be kind of writing to and talking to and pressuring labor councils and labor mps or members of the

scottish and welsh assemblies as well and encouraging them to stand by our ordinary our ordinary members and take action so our campaign fights for three reforms one we want to extend the eviction ban in england and wales until at least august 2021 we want to legislate to force landlords to forgive all rents accumulated during the pandemic with means tested financial support to compensate small landlords where necessary and we want to follow through on commitments made by both the last conservative government and the welsh labor conference to end section 21 no fault evictions which you can force renters from their homes for no reason with as little as eight weeks notice something that people could can do uh is the the world transforms festival is taking place

online over the next month and we've helped to put on a session called renters fight back which happening Thursday the 10th between at seven till 8 30 with speakers from momentum london renters union acorn and then we're going to be holding a workshop called renters know your rights which is going to be hosted by the london renter or london renters union activists which is on friday the 18th from seven till 8 30 so i mean what we're facing is a kind of confluence of different crises like the government's kind of scheme on uh renters rights is is kind of running out the victory is running out also their support of uh employers through the furlough scheme is running out so what we're facing and a kind of coming wave we haven't really hit the near

dear of what's what's happening with with covid uh and it's a crisis it's kind of a crisis of capitalism because what you're going to see is a competition away different between different factions of the capitalist class so like outside of private kind of renters housing situation i'm sure people are aware that commercial landlords who are renting to kind of businesses they're they're also not getting paid and that's just a direct competition between different factions of the capitalist class so uh look if you are a member of the if you are a member of momentum and if you if that's something you want to get involved with then where can people um what what what can people do next as their next step well if you if you are a member already you

should have received an email within the last seven days which gives you a sign up link where you can can sign up to say which level of activity and activism you want to you are able to take part in which could be things kind of remotely it could be kind of just uh contributing by helping to to send in motions or it could be something more direct it could be something where you actively become active within one of the tenants unions so that's something that you can do and we're going to be we're going to be spreading the word a little more and and becoming more clear about what we're looking for in the near future before the original grease ends on the 20th of September the other thing i would really strongly encourage people do is to find which local tenants union

represents the area you live in and join them indeed well hey the other thing is uh it's uh it's good to be it's good to be hearing hearing that there are we do a talk about a lot of doom and gloom so it's good to hear that there are concrete steps people can take to try to mitigate at least some of it somehow even if it does involve the most hated act of financially compensating certain small landlords um nevertheless uh darin i want to thank you very much for uh letting people know that there are things that they can do uh and the any link to follow will be in the show notes uh so i think back to you past or future riley wow what an interesting what an interesting conversation and i can't believe kier starmer you didn't say anything the whole time

certainly turned around my view on the subject i mean who knew that all the tenants needed was crystals so uh with that in mind whatever call to action i said at the end of that segment do that other calls to action include subscribing to our patreon feed uh they also include where you can find britannology you can find the boney island whitefish yeah by a crystal yeah by a crystal buy some ginseng we're gonna have to change the fucking twitter account to trash you to crystal wholesalers that's fucking right that's right uh and yeah i think that um that about does it so once again thank you very much annie uh and we will see you all in the premium in a couple of days yeah may you look at you have something to say no it's all good thanks everyone

yeah bye everybody