TRASHFUTURE - Service to the Economy Guarantees Citizenship

Episode Date: June 13, 2023

We spend a while looking over the economic dimensions of - whatever you want to call it - Starmerism, Bidenism, Levelling Up - a version of neoliberalism that realised, very suddenly and entirely too late, that it does actually matter quite a bit if your economy produces certain things. What kind of world does this look like? Let’s explore the contours of Productivism/Permanent Wartime Neoliberalism together, and what it looks like when dedicated Neoliberals try to do something different (embarrassing failure).   NOTE ON CONTENT: Since this episode was recorded, the Starmer team has declared that the Green Prosperity Plan - the focus of this episode - would be postponed (before even being implemented) from £28bn per year for five years… to £28bn a year for three years, starting after the second year of a Labour government. Embarrassing failure prediction comes true quicker than usual. *STREAM ALERT* Check out our Twitch stream, which airs 9-11 pm UK time every Monday and Thursday, at the following link: https://www.twitch.tv/trashfuturepodcast *WEB DESIGN ALERT* Tom Allen is a friend of the show (and the designer behind our website). If you need web design help, reach out to him here:  https://www.tomallen.media/ *MILO ALERT* Check out Milo’s upcoming live shows here: https://www.miloedwards.co.uk/live-shows and check out a recording of Milo’s special PINDOS available on YouTube here! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRI7uwTPJtg *ROME ALERT* Milo and Phoebe have teamed up with friend of the show Patrick Wyman to finally put their classical education to good use and discuss every episode of season 1 of Rome. You can download the 12 episode series from Bandcamp here (1st episode is free): https://romepodcast.bandcamp.com/album/rome-season-1 Trashfuture are: Riley (@raaleh), Milo (@Milo_Edwards), Hussein (@HKesvani), Nate (@inthesedeserts), and Alice (@AliceAvizandum)

Hello and welcome to this free episode of Free One. Mylo's back. I'm back by me. Soba and a mango mouse. Yeah, he's back and he his mango mouse. That's right. Look, there's been a lot that's been going on recently. As per usual, we have a lot of old friends to visit today because boy has some stuff been happening.

Sort of like a Marvel movie. Like a trash shooter, like alumni reunion. You come on the star sub segment, you graduate now, you're're gonna come back and we're gonna see how you're doing, you know? Yeah, like zoom pizza is coming and hanging out at its old high school going to football games and stuff Oh, yeah, we've got to go and see baby grump. Yeah, we're gonna we're gonna risk him up. No, no, we're not no We're not gonna do that Yeah, cuz Livy's already done it. Yeah, no I honestly we we had our our business meeting earlier this week. And I

forgot behind the cat, one core thing to discuss, which is nope, it that the spectator and telegraph have both gone into administration as the Barclay brothers are unable to pay their creditors. Mercyful Barclay brothers, I, I think that's a real shame, you know, because where else would I get to read warmed over like Britain first, Facebook posts, but the telegraph and the specs are. It's very funny to imagine like a creditors fire sale of the spectator, like Morgan Stanley coming in and going, we'll have tacky $50,000. Well, they've got that one big conference table.

They've got the big one big conference table. They've got the big, beautiful conference table, so they'll get some money back for that, at least. We should buy that. Well, because we do have a sort of slow burn plan to start filming the episodes and putting them on YouTube. If we had the spectators conference table, that would be, if we had gotten the little bird sculpture from, like, when Elon was selling stuff from Twitter

That would have been great, but I was set up for this golden arm. Yeah to do to do to have these like make shift tables Yeah, like aren't really tables. We're just like bits of work Together such a great moment I was pushing his saying to my motor was him and he was recording away from it Done this like years what the fuck is this thing? No, every time I go to the studio. It's the first time I've noticed I have to talk into something. We've had these tables for a long time, like we didn't make them, we sort of like took

them from another guy who made them out of scrap wood. I feel like it's time for us to get a nice, oh yeah, like a back to use table. Mahogany tape. But I imagine unspeakable things have been done on that tape. Oh yeah, stuff, stuff have been taken off of it, stuff's been put on it, all manner of things. But like the thing, I imagine quite a bit

has been put onto it and then tapped into a line with a credit card. I don't have any inhales. But like I will get this sentence out if it fucking kills me. The thing about going to the studio that always amuses me is so much of it is just bits of wood or stuff you've found somewhat. None of the chairs have arm rests and the cover.

And they're all taped up. I don't understand why they're taped up. They're taped up with like police caution tape. At any time I'm in this studio, I'm like, how did you, how did you acume me like all of this shit? Did you get all of this out of like different skips? The answer is because we stole a lot of it and we've passed the savings on to the list.

We can literally we stole so much of the furniture. I also do think that the guy's landlord, so it was ethical. Yeah, I do also think that those landlords did probably get a lot of that stuff from the sketch. Yeah. So this is TF. This is TF Business Meeting. I'm calling TF Business Meeting to order.

I think we should buy either or both of the spectator and or telegraph. The only problem with the furniture from the spectator offices, it's nice. And I do think we should buy it, but I think it's probably all possessed by the ghost of Hitler. Yeah, so we could be under danger of creating a recruitment Hitler barcass.

Yeah, Hitler particles, sort of like very dangerous. I think we should buy both. We should launch all of our like video content whenever we do that under the like, auspices of the spectator. Like the spectator is just us doing video content. And then the telegraph, we bring back your attempt to do textual journalism again with gettingyourdicksucks.com. So we're going to buy the spectator and call it getting your dick stuff.

We're going to check the spectator. The spectator stays the spectator. Although I actually think, I think we could buy the spectator and The spectator stays the spectator. Although I actually think, I think we could buy the spectator and then like, what are they famous for? What does everyone know them for? The Garden Park. Yeah, the Garden Park.

Yeah. I mean, I was gonna say racism. Yeah, that's it. So, well, remember there was that, there was that awesome meme about a dial that you could turn from racism to techno and it was like, you should turn the dial from racism to techno.

You're not gonna take techno party in the space. Of course he does. Of course he does. He wants to get fucking like one of his DJs. He wants to get David Gasser in the fucking party. David Gasser. David Gasser. I don't know.

I don't know. I don't know. Is that a good one? I think it would be very funny to get like, to throw the worst party ever and have like David Getter and Ben Clark going back to bed. I heard about Toby Young. Not he's out of tough here. His wife left him.

Right, anyway. Shout out to his family. Not back to back simultaneously. We get them opposite sides of the garden playing like adversarial sets and that's what the spectator is is that happens like four times a year Everybody fucking hates it. It's the most annoying party in London by like a white margin See what we're norovirus in the spectator garden party dark room What you're suggesting is essentially a kind of white people version of a sound system battle. Basically.

Yeah, there'll be hoons doing burnouts in the middle of the party. We need to purchase these media properties. They're lying follow. So you can listen to the question. So there's up your Patreon subscription and we will buy the fake data. So anyway, we will watch succession

and we have some ideas for it. You know, like how all the sort of business guys we like just misunderstand every film. Yes. We've done that with Succession. And we're like, yeah, this is a great idea. Let's buy this other. I've done that on the fake case.

I'm so, I'm so wounded that I just, I said the first DJ that came to mind at every single one of you was just like this is I just thought you were doing a great bit because you knew that Riley would be so insulted at the suggestion that he would book David Getter It's nicely because Riley used to like David getter and that's why he would find it so Exactly. Yeah, the was like 17. Exactly.

Yeah, the most embarrassing year of anyone's life. True. Look, look. So I saw it. We had to, like everyone had to hear TF business meetings. It's just, I went in an opportunity like that comes up. We have to, like, we owe you a fiduciary duty to discuss it. As our shareholder.

Yeah. I want to move on though, because of a few other friends of ours have had some developments. The SEC in the United States has begun. Friends of the show, the SEC have begun initiating lawsuits against Binance, Coinbase and other crypto exchanges asserting that in fact everything they do is trading securities. Sited in the evidence that Binance was aware of this was a a slack message from 2018 that said the following from the from the CCO that's like the proper noun or slack the adjective the the proper now. A CCO admitting to the Binance compliance officer in December 2018.

Bro, we are operating a fucking unlicensed security exchange in the USA. Yes, mate. Self-incrimination chat with the boys, like the group chat where you incriminate yourselves in bigger and bigger crimes. Unless they were just doing one of these meme group chats, like, oh, that's all post like boomers, that's essentially what the crypto guys cannot stop doing Well, yeah, because they see they see those types of posts that are like tell us about a crime But you committed a never never got arrested for and they will tell you everything. Yeah, they feel like the same thing They don't know about what talking about their crimes

Is it like that he's like, yo, that's my grind set. I'm establishing an unlicensed security exchange in my sleep. So additionally, as well, coinbase, the cryptocurrency exchange headed by just powerhouse of charisma, Brian Armstrong, has suggested that. Lance is brother. What we have is that once again, yes, in fact, everything, including US dollar coin, like, which is, I don't know, 86% of the revenue, like some huge amount of their

revenues, none of it is shit coins, none of it is utility tokens. It's all securities. All of it. Oops. And so everything. Yep. Let's see, Daisy, all of it apparently, all of it, everything they were doing apparently was dealing in securities and meme.

Yeah, it's very funny. A lot of the usual suspects, of course, have been like fucking Andreson and similar people are reacting to a like a biology, especially. I love that fund, Andreson and similar people. Well, Andreson and others. Andreson and others. Yeah, Andres recent and others. And they've allowed you to.

And recent the guy who wrote the like storm breaker. Some other guys possibly. So and Jason and the way. Let's go. And recent in the way. There's a balladgy. All these people. They they are saying that, oh, this is just another attack by the, by like the, the woke state trying

to defend itself. The woke state. Yeah. Against, um, we Janet, because I'm yelling. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Got that, got that. They, they're messy. Yeah. That's right. So like, but this is, I actually identify as a security is exchange. They could drive that. Yeah, so this is now one analyst covering coin base has declared the company to be uninvestable. Amazing. So, you know, we own coin base now too. We're consolidating our portfolio. We're going to end up with the telegraph, the spectator, and coin base. And an oil warehouse and and F2N. Every single one of those things is a different DJ.

Oh, no, not that many DJs. Yeah, well, they need to bring in baby drunk. They're gonna need a lot of rizz, if they're gonna shake off this incriminating stuff. So I have more for you from Revisiting Smalled Friends. I don't want to alarm any of you, or any of you listening as well, but. Is this like a content warning?

Do we have like a content warning? Yeah, so content warning. So content warning. So content warning. So content warning. So content warning. So content warning. So content warning.

So content warning. So content warning. So content warning. So content warning. So content warning. So content warning. So content warning. So content warning. So content warning. So content warning. $375 million from SoftBank to automate pizza making with robots in the delivery vans has shut down. Oh, what? Yeah, the woke state hates the round pizza box. This is so sad.

The long day without you, my friend. Alexa played the sound of like a football pizza, falling out of the back of a van to the street. Family. I'm just being diesel-looking through the window of a truck at a pizza that somehow driving itself. I'm astonished that it has lasted this long. I thought it shut down already. Yeah, I kind of forgot about it.

It comes in my head every so often. I just love the idea of the round pizza box. I think it was like one of the funniest things that ever showed up in the show. So they were like, operating this in like, like one town and like, was it like Rochester or like Providence? Some shit like that. Interestingly. No. That was a different competing robot pizza company. Wasn't it in North Coldwell, New Jersey? Wasn't that a weird element of it?

That was another competing, another one. Robot pizza company. Amazing. Called Wonder. How's that one doing? Is that, is that one doing well? We think. So I did, because I was reminded of this wave of robot,

I mean, not just the wave robot pizza making. There are companies spending accumulative tens of billions of dollars trying to automate pizza making. And not even like the difficult bits, like making the dough or whatever. They're just trying to automate the assembly of a pizza and it's never fucking good.

But, so I looked into this as well seeing that Zoom had somehow failed. After trying to bay in value it at $2 billion and being called the Amazon of food by Alex Garden, it's CEO. So this is... Inventor of the Garden. This is the one from New Jersey called Wonder,

which was invested in by Mark Law, one of the LinkedIn guys. We have one back story in him. Yeah, very good. Thank you. And other like ce celebs investors. So this is, according to the reports this week in Wall Street Journal,

food delivery startup wonder is laying off employees and when we begin to phase out, it's signature food delivery trucks in the hopes of creating a lower cost operating model. This is from like January of this year. So it's not, it's all kind of happening within the same six months. I'm looking too good for them back in January. Yeah

It's a pizza truck salsa that's not gonna have trucks. Well, they didn't just do pizza It was a mobile kitchen that you order food and it finishes it outside your house And then they run the food from the trucks Of course now they don't but now they don't do that anymore. So Okay, so they just like invented a kitchen. So it says this is what, this is the wonder chief governance officer, Andrew Gasper. We loved the vehicles.

Andrew Gasper is constantly shocked. We love that. Oh, it's my balance sheet again. Oh no, we loved the vehicles, but we couldn't figure it out. We figured out a better way to do it, informing the journal that the current model would have required another billion dollars of investment We loved the vehicles, but we couldn't figure out we figured out a better way to do it Informing the journal that the current model would have required another billion dollars of investment over the next two years to Get building a kitchen and fix location once we figured out the technology and started testing it in a brick and mortar location

We learned all of the things we could unlock our quality was already very high But we could make the food taste even better and be more efficient in a stationary bricks and mortar location Crazy crazy almost almost as better and be more efficient in a stationary bricks in more location. Crazy. Crazy. Almost as if it's more efficient cooking a pizza or whatever the fuck in a kitchen instead of in the back of a van driven by a robot. How much money did it cost them to figure that one out? Collectively for the entire automating like delivery food and cooking in the truck industry. Someway we changed zero and $2 billion, I believe.

No, more than $2 billion, because $2 billion was the enterprise valuation of just Zoom. Wonder on top of that also had an enterprise valuation and believe in the low billions. And then there's the whole long tail of other companies that are also trying to do this. Amazing.

So billions and billions and billions of dollars, at least in like paper value, investment value just hundreds and hundreds of millions, if not a bill of billions. I presume that this business, you know, they've not just shut down, they've pivoted, right? You know, because now they are a dealership that sells off a bunch of used vans. A bunch of used vans with a bunch of weird shit in them. Yeah, that's right. That's incredible. Yeah. It's how you work. That's incredible. Yeah, it's a turnkey business, and then you turn the key,

and inside is a dilapidated factory. Yeah, great. You can turn the key. So, he's like 90s. It reminds me of old company. So it says, we can get the food to someone's house. Basically, the same time as the food trucks of the order is large,

and the larger the order gets, the more that one person in the vehicle had to do all this balancing act Now we don't start cooking the order in our location until we're sure a courier is ready to go. So what they have is they've invented a dark kitchen Yes, that's fucking they've invented pizza hot like dominoes or whatever Well, but no what they did is they were they used billions of dollars to a beat test and reverse engineer the idea of a kitchen. Yeah, they've derived the restaurant from first principles by starting from the concept of the van, which is a weird place to start, but I mean, yeah, I guess they've worked out how to make a pizza by first understanding the fields of van logistics and robotics, and then been like,

oh, you just need an Italian guy in a building. We need to either do things we started from, but that's okay. We're moving fast. We're breaking things. You know, in order to make a pizza, you must first invent the known universe and they did. I really do love the kind of boil the ocean approach to making a cup of tea that a lot of the startups seem to take. It's the same thing with the crypto people. They created all of the sort of features of the modern financial system, kind of by accident and through a huge amount of scamming and failure, sort of from first principles, with magic internet money. They keep on, because these people are everybody involved in this entire industry,

as just such a decrepit imagination, they try to transform life in ways that are imaginable from just sitting in your house and staring at the wall, thinking, how do I interact with the world? Pizza and finance, all right, well how can I make those more efficient? Just the fever dreams of a particularly unimaginative child. Yeah.

Any of a robot had a van in it that was making pizza? Zoom says the article on Zoom concludes. Found that in 2015, the company was one of many attempting to use robots to make pizza. The concept never took off and the technology was plagued by technical challenges, such as keeping melting cheese from sliding off the pizza while it was being baked in moving trucks. It's so good. It's so good. I think it was so funny about it, and I think this does apply to the crypto stuff as well.

It's the way that they're not only trying to reinvent the wheel, but they're trying to reinvent the wheel precisely because everyone else is using the wheel. And they see that as a downside. So they're like, oh, well, no one else has got a blunt knife. We're going to invent the blunt knife, the flat, the flat-sided knife. It's just like a rectangle. And because no one's ever done it before. And it's like, yeah, there's a fucking reason why they've never done that before. It's a very, very, very, very, very useful feature of the knife. That's a very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very the useful feature of the knife. That's a very case, Dharma policy as well. Yeah.

So we're placing the shot, those are the blood, we're going to replace them with blood knives. We're going to give all of the children the county lines gangs Robynive so that they could take out their anger and their, you know, which I understand why they're angry, a lot of them have had difficult lives up to this point. With the absence of sure start. And I think that, you know, if we give them all a rubber knife, they could take out that energy. And then eventually it learned to work together to perhaps start a smaller competency firm. How about this? Have this. Taking away the right knife. First step, rubber knife.

Second step paintbrush. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Third step, tap and odd vape. Oh, there is a plan, by the way, that's being taken forward to continue the outlying vapes with two attractive names like sweet jelly donut or whatever. Okay. Right, what are you going to vape at the combination, David Gessa, Ben Clark, Garden Party? It's going to be called like gay pussy donut. That's going to be the meaning. now some other people are into vaping. It's not really it's not changed overall number. So it's that this is in sorry so in New Zealand that they're doing is they're outlying overly attractive vape names. So yeah so legal to

be too cool. Yeah it says no one it's not you can't call a vape tight little pussy vape here in New Zealand. It's not loud. You got to call it something like ordinary vagina. Big loose pussy. You got to call it big pussy bumpers era. Here in New Zealand. The big loose pussy. We've finally found a way to get me to start vaping. Yeah. All right. Anyway, moving on from on. And that BLP.

I feel like we're totally... And the BLP. Yeah, the British Labour Party. We are absolutely in the right frame. I don't understand for anything else. We are absolutely in the right frame of mind to move on to our next subject here. Which is... You're an Auckland? Honk and honk and honk and honk and that big loose pussy? I know people are gonna write in and say that it's not a very good New Zealand accent. I know

that's gonna happen. So I'm preempting that now by saying I don't care. I'll can all that. I'll can all that hairy gooch. It's just, it's just raspberry. Actually, that's the flavor, you can't call that anymore. People are queuing up to get that South Island manboop. He's actually laughing so much he's sweating. Okay, all right, I'm all right. All right. Are we resetting?

Do the next segment. Do you think the next segment before he continues? Save us all. My little comment on a peeling vape name in a New Zealand accent, next. Shit. Oh, fuck me. Well, I'm on that Christ Church dick cheese. Okay, next segment.

Yeah. Okay. All right, everybody. Yeah. All right, we're all growing up. Yeah, we're growing up. Yeah. We're growing up because we're talking about like neoliberalism and stuff in the next segment.

All right. You said to me, you said to me when we did the planning for this, I want this one to be a bit more grown up because it's going to have a lot of theory. Yeah, neoliberalism-flavored vape for the real grown-up. Yeah, this seawater. It means tested. So basically, there's, I've been doing some, some thinking recently.

I've been, I've been reading actually a lot, there's been a new FT series on stormorism, how he sort of came to take control of the party, Reeves andomics, what they're trying to do, how they see it in relation to the States. Um, and for us is a little bit like going, what type of knife is that in my back? Like what's the sort of shape of what is that? It's so funny that someone is boring and forgettable as Rachel Reeves gets to have an anomics named after her. Well, that's like such a weird quirk of history.

Don't worry when I describe what it is, you will see that it's quite fitting. I mean, consider the fact that we nearly had a long Bailey Nomics. Yeah, that would have been, hey, I would have been an improvement, but it would have been, but like consider the sort of like the implications of long Bayleyomics. Consider it on that long Bayleyomics. So, so, so, look. And I think this is also comes into the discussions that you see every once and again, if people claim, oh, neoliberalism's over or no, it's not, blah, blah, blah.

Yeah, the pantomime crowd of British fellow thinks. And I think that it's worth thinking about something like neoliberalism, in our case, rather than like as a governing ideology, or as a set of concepts through which to understand a governing ideology. And I think that it is a number of things have come together. It is dusk in the out of Minerva spreading its wings. And we are able to put the weight

its weight flavorful. But it's, yeah, you have to say, every time the label kind of like wraps around. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like a spiral or it's not the tube. So, and that you can, and there's now, or the last couple of years, there has been, and you can, a lot of writing about

the way to understand how the economy is organized and how that might be different. I'm not necessarily one of these neoliberalism has ended people, but I am increasingly thinking that a different set of concepts is needed to understand the same groups of people achieving the same goals in different conditions. Not ended per se, but it has gotten funkier.

Well, sort of. Yeah. So thanks in large part to Liz Truss, I will it has gotten funkier. Well, sort of. Yeah. So thanks in large part to Liz Truss, I will say. I really think she's been sort of the grave digger of it in the long way. Well, it's a, well, I say like the, it's some, if you think about Rember Howe neoliberalism, sort of the side governing world governing

Hegemony ideology started. It was an energy, it was a response to an energy price crisis that was precipitated by the six day war when Saudi Arabia then decided to cut oil production to raise prices. All that money flowed into huge amounts of money, flowed into London, denominating dollars, and then the banks in which that money was kept, then loaned that money to developing countries at extortion it interest rates on behalf of like the Saudi, right? And because the oil price was up, the interest rates were also up to combat inflation. It's one of the ways you had stagnation, right? There's inflation not coming from growth but the huge spike in energy prices.

The way that, and that created a spike. That created, among other things, the logic of austerity, which was kind of invented in like the IMF Washington consensus, which starts out at the periphery, right, when we start saying, okay, well, you've taken, you Tunisia, you've taken out alone from the, you now have a structural adjustment program from the IMF because the interest rates are so high

and you've borrowed so much, mostly to pay for energy, right? You're basically trapped in this situation. Yeah, and now every Tunisia has to work until they're 90 or whatever. And so this, so IMF structural adjustment is one of the, it's this one of these things that starts out on the sort of global periphery and then makes its way back in the imperial core.

This is like, oh no, that's the last thing I wanted to have. That's where I live. Right, and at the same time, right? The promise. People, my stuff. The promise of like, the promise of participation in like politics, capital P to govern and improve life is sort of curtailed.

At the same time, international free trade areas sort of deepen and expand as finance capital is able to create these gigantic globe sprawling supply chains, which are like the main deflationary force from that time on. I mean, I like the sort of the summary of neoliberalism, both for future archaeologists, but also in case any of you came in late and like you didn't, you didn't see any of this. But Riley, how is all this happening when the British people in 2019 voted resoundingly not to go back to the 1970s? That was like the main thing they said that they were, and look at where we are, we're in the 90s, you've got hair growing right now. The color is enlarging as we speak.

His man's got chest hair. So he's offering me cocaine from America. I do have chest hair. Legally he isn't doing that. But so then what happens is finance capital. Legally he is. Finance capital, in its great ascendancy for then several decades, freed from territoriality by communications technology

and eventually the internet, just is able to cover the world in this way. So you're able to perform arbitrage on everything. So all labor tends to be exported through like these various free trade agreements or like production in China as it joins the WTO is able to like supercharge the destruction of American manufacturing.

Yada, yada, yada. Right, this is the apogee of like that governing ideology is able to like supercharge the destruction of American manufacturing. Yada, yada, yada. Right. This is the apogee of like that governing ideology is the accession of the China to the WTO, which then blows up eight years later. And it's been being replaced by the next thing for over a decade now. And it's taken kind of COVID to get people to notice. That's why I say, you know, the owl of the nervous spreads its wings at dusk. You can only really see it as it's ending. You can only really understand it.

Like, combination of like, COVID and also, uh, like, Ukraine, uh, and the, do you like, new, and syphian cold wall with China. And like, a lot of it so much, if it comes back to energy prices as well. And it's like, it's genuinely remarkable to me how much it's sort of like there are three or four numbers that change and then the ideology like it once those change like rolls, it's like down a dice tower and a new ideology is generated to like fit those things. It's basically ideology plinco. Yeah, but like genuinely to go from like, mechanicalism to capitalism, to globalization, to neoliberalism, to now whatever we're gonna call this new thing. It's really, sometimes it just feels like it's like, it's three numbers, we just go up and down.

That's a big part of it. I mean, the reason that food prices are so high in Britain is because food prices in Britain are a proxy for energy prices because so much of our shit is grown in greenhouses heated by natural gas. Fantastic. And there's no better way to heat greenhouses. Oh, we're going to get to that.

So anyway, this all by way of saying is that the neoliberalism was a particular reaction to a set of particularly favorable conditions for finance capital basically in the last sort of what, 50 years you might wanna call it. It's had a billion different, and it doesn't mean that you have some kind of like minarchist state, it's that the state intervenes in lots of different ways, just it likes to disguise its intervention.

Like neoliberal industrial policy is carried out through bailouts. They pick winners by creating little monopolies and then say, oh, you're providing a service on behalf of the government, yada, yada, yada. And what's happened, as we said, right? It's a government that hates governing. Yeah.

Or the government that makes a big show of hating governing. And it didn't only load me, I couldn't possibly govern. And it doesn't, and they sort of collapse of that system in the face of high energy prices and also like the fact that giant globalized supply chains are now a security, consider a security threat by these people, right? Means that, A, you know, long have the deflationary impulse of those long supply chains, but also it means that you're all of a sudden, you can't depend on things being produced anywhere in the world anymore from energy to face masks to anything. So, basically, you have to have a governing chips.

Semi-conducts. Yeah. Things of that nature. It's so cool that the main semiconductor fab is right on the fault line of the second Cold War, by the way. That's awesome. And it's great. It's great world building from the riders.

I have to say. The ads are good. Yeah. And so, these changes mean that I think you need a new set of concepts to understand the global economy. And certainly is now a hegemonic belief on pretty much both sides of the aisle and Canada, Australia, much of Europe and the UK.

And then among the Democrats in the US and the Republicans will catch up when they sort of forget the culture war stuff. But the underlying desire among columnists for this like ideologically squared Brexit or Trumpism or the but also the it's responding to I think this this idea. It's also the same thing by the way the like that Lord Crudis's book about the dignity of work, bionomics, re-venomics, the power Australia program, all of this. All of Australia. Yeah, all of this like Australia and it's like evolved.

The endless waffle about the somewheres versus any where's in the new elite, what generally they've been tall talking about is the, coming waffle is a new vape flair but from like Hades. I thought, no, you like the waffle vape do you? But this is all really gesturing at the around the sides of a political program with a role of the state and private capital and the economy is changing, but most of these people are pundits and too stupid in myopic to see it. They're two, yes. But it's sort of like the particularly the crudest thing is interesting to me because it's, we're going to see the labor

right try and finesse this, right? And to try and like spin this out into a thing and they can do all the stuff that they want to do. I think that they're too stupid to do it. I think that what's going to happen is they're going to be overtaken by circumstance. And the big fucking new ideology is going to descend on them. And all of these people who are now talking about what great Blairites they are are going to have to embrace whatever the next thing is because it's going to be sort of like forced upon them. And what is coming, I know, what I seem to sort of see is coming next. I've done some reading around this as well. And this is again a concept that's been written about by a couple of years, mostly by economist Danny Rodrick, who's sort of for it. It seems, is referred to as productiveism.

It is, do you remember to sort of like all of the times on the show when we've talked about some measure where we've gone, ah, it seems that once again a government that claims to hate governing and especially hate socialism has been forced to do a quite a socialist piece of governing and then loudly complained about the whole time and they've done sort of like just enough

to kick the can down the road for another like six months or whatever. Yeah, but all of those times, I do. It was kind of coming due on all of those, right? And eventually, they get to a point where you got to do something and that's going to be accompanied by some kind of crisis as with like energy supply or whatever the next thing is going to be. This winter is going to be very interesting and by interesting, I mean, terrifying because the NHS is going to fall over and that's going to be a crisis in the health sector that like you can only solve with massive government intervention. And at some point, this like knots together and it like, it like, it glomerates into an

ideology where it's like, no, the government is reliably just doing all of this stuff that it hates right that's the new thing some people say it's gonna be a terrifying winter for the NHS but we here at the government prefer the word interesting so and I think that's also important to say right is that this is the same sort of hegemonic group people in power who are doing just different things to achieve the same goals as as before the only difference maybe is that like some slices of capital of finance versus productive, like ones some are coming more into favor, like these things have been in conflict for a little while.

And so the world of productiveism that we might talk about is in many ways just as stupid and cruel as neoliberalism and it is asism. And it is as concerned with, it is as concerned with residualizing public services and so on as well. This is again, like both sides of the aisle thing. It is still allergic to things like public ownership. It just has, it is an acceptance essentially that certain outcomes cannot be left to the market.

I think the best way to understand it is an application of the way that Western countries do defense spending to more stuff. Yeah, that's an interesting thing. And I think a lot of it, you can say if you don't want to concede that it's not neoliberalism now, you could think of it as wartime neoliberalism. Yeah.

Because the combination of China and Russia have like and kicked all of these people and the climate so far up the ars that they're like now legitimately starting to think about things in terms of threats to the state itself. Which if you ask me, I know this is not like a popular framing as a leftist, you know, because we don't like the state that much necessarily, but like it's a bit late, right? Given that the shit is already happening and has been for a number of years, it seems like maybe earlier would have been nicer to take that view. Well, it's the way that so much government has actually happened ever since the efforts

of the 1970s and 80s, mostly mostly was to sort of denude government of the ability to do things directly, right? It was, oh, of a sudden you became a service, you became a service provider. You were a contracting organization, but very rarely, like, it used to be that a power employee, someone working at a power plant was a government employee no longer, someone who set the government employee as one for the French government. Yeah, well, they have government employees someone who contracts with the power company, for example.

So there's been an enormous amount of that kind of improvisation happening sort of all over the world. So of course it was too little too late. And the other thing to remember is that the people who are now trying to implement what you might call wartime neoliberalism are dyed in the wool neoliberals.

The exception being that there are fewer of them in America, which is why the Inflation Reduction Act, well, it had much of the things that were going to make it, make the sort of America a nicer place to live, so just many of it's like care provisions to immediately stripped out. Why, at least, at least it's effective in directing public investment towards the things they want to direct it to. The UK, of course, does not have that benefit because we need jobs for the boys. We do we got out just the boy yeah so this is this is a series of also true believers we are the people who will like cut the police and the army and stuff exactly yeah that but british liberals put the money where the mouth is i do want to make a suggestion here though Which is that I think you know wartime neoliberalism sounds a bit cool And I think we need to we don't want this to happen. So what we need to do is employ some

New Zealand government logic, you know We need to give people a nudge not to subscribe to thisology by calling it a big loose pusheism Yeah, and the thing about the thing about big loose pusheism right is Rice, I think Riley has been slightly imprecisely when you said that it's going to like organize different sectors of the economy like we organize the defense sector. I think there's an imprecision there. I think we should say that it's going to organize sectors of the economy like the Americans organize the defense sector.

Yes, excuse me. Wow. A lot of dumb guys doing nothing. This is from an essay by Danny Roderick on Productivism, which he thinks, I think not incorrectly, is basically the animating impulse of Bidenism, Starmerism, the thing that Tories were trying to articulate with leveling up, what you're talking about when you talk about good jobs, the dignity of work, whatever. And we're talking, guys, we've got to get the economy XP grinding.

So Chris, you're gonna get a bust of sword. Chris, you're free, Lent is talking about it in Canada, it's cross party, pop, you're in Australia, and so on and so on. So let's hear from Roderick. He says, if history is a guide, the vacuum left by the waning of neoliberalism will soon be filled by a new paradigm.

This is an approach that prioritizes the dissemination of productive economic opportunities throughout all regions of the economy and segments of the labor force. It differs from what immediately preceded it, and that it gives governments a significant role in achieving that goal, putting less faith in markets and a suspicious of large transnational entities. Now again, like I think Roderick has missed a trick here by seeing that governments did play a significant role in achieving the goal.

They just hid that role, or they would play it in the back end through stuff like bailouts. Yeah, but there is sort of like more appreciation for some central planning. In sort of like thinking about this, I thought about a lot about the early cybernetic system, cyber sign in Aendo's Chile, where it was like, we're going to have like a centralized computer system that's going to direct the stuff where it needs to go and manage all the resources and all the supply chains, and all the shit like that, in order to consolidate the nationally important stuff

and allow it to be planned in a way that's more sustainable and then the fascist bombed it and so on. But I think of this capitalist cyber sign. It's much less cool, but I think that's also something that's going to speak to the technological implications of this as well, is they're going to have to find something that will allow them to like play that off as, you know, it's not central planning anymore because we're using this, you know, this shit. Yeah, what it is. You would be surprised to know that AI comes up a lot. Right, fantastic.

Fish finger GT. Of course it does. Yeah. But so Rodric goes on, it emphasizes production and investment over finance and localism over globalization, but it also departs from the Keynesian welfare state. The paradigm that neoliberalism itself replaced

and that it focuses not on redistribution, social transfers and any kind of macroeconomic management, a lot, but rather creating economic opportunity by working on the supply side of the economy to create good productive jobs for everyone. So it is supply side as him, but in the knowledge that we need supply side as him to create certain outcomes,

it's not enough for us just to have an independent central bank moving like the interest rate lever that like gets you evicted. We have that the state has to take a slightly more activist role. And that's like, that's different enough to warrant a different set of concepts. Yeah, well, you've got the interest rate lever and you've got the racism button and that's what they've got in number 10. They don't have anything else. We're introducing a new lever here, which is the, and I'm sort of capitalizing the G and the J here, the good jobs lever, right? Because that's the vision here, and particularly on the right of the left, right?

Of the center left, whatever you want to call it, is everybody's going to have a good job, and that good job is going to pay for the public services that you don't have anymore. So, yeah, the healthcare is shit, but you're going to like top that up with the like healthcare premium that you get from your good job. The food is going to be expensive, but you'll get like a subsidy from that from your good job. Yeah. Well, and specifically the thing to remember about all of these, these programs, right,

when you're, when you are issuing the idea of fairness and justice in the economy and trying to have that be a proxy for something else, is that it never really works. Because if you recall, everyone was going to be computer programmers or social media managers until about 2018 or 19. Everyone was going to do that. We were all gonna learn how to code.

The idea, this is- I was gonna be in the drip king. The idea, it was gonna be a risen people off. The idea was that all of the factory workers who were laid off, were going to retrain as something else. And the same logic is being applied here, but instead it's like, oh, you're gonna retrain as someone who builds windmills.

You're gonna retrain as... Julian Moul. Yeah, yeah. You're gonna retrain as some kind of like a green energy person. Which is really materialized. Yeah. And like, it's not a horrible idea as far as these things go. Like the green new deal was a good idea in the broadest sense.

But what, you know, one crucial part that needed to happen before it could ever be or anything like it could ever be adopted by mainstream politicians was a way to strip even more public services out of the country. But also the green the green new deal was a way of decarbonizing the economy that was focus primarily on what people's experiences of it would be. And then indeed risking ourselves in the future by taking these things into public ownership, the Green Prosperity Plan, which we're gonna talk about a little bit more, Rachel Reeves is much vanted, but already being attacked for being

too expensive 28 billion pounds to basically decarbonize the entire economy, that is mostly going to be private subsidies to companies, startups, things of that nature. Cool. So, the Green prosperity plan, total value is, is often talked about as 28 billion pounds. It's actually been more, 28 billion pounds per year, four or five years. Like, a lot of pledges like this, especially in pledges to spend in places that are, even

though they're talking about wanting to spend or still internally hostile to spending, let's see how much it shakes out at, but that's the total figure that they're planning to work with. Let's get to say, because 28 billion pounds to decarbonize the entire economy sounds pretty cheap. Oh, well, yeah, because the other tenant of productivism is that it does industrial policy through de-risking.

Right. And so you create enough public investment in something to then remove the risk for more private investment coming in. It's kind of PFI, but they've called it something else. Oh, okay, that's good. Remember how good that one works? It went so well before.

Yeah, just sort of looking at starmerism and seeing the ways which, again, like I think that's all well and good, or it isn't, but I think again, it's gonna be overtaken by events, right? And I think we're gonna well and good, or it isn't, but I think, again, it's going to be overtaken by events, right? And I think we're going to be looking at, you know, 10 years time, 15 years time, and we're going to be looking at a prime minister, whether that's, you know, Stammer has, like, chosen successor, the AI that used to drive the pizza truck that has now sort of, like, achieved sanctions.

Oh, where's the reason? Yeah, exactly. And it's going to be claiming to still be a blareight. And we're going to sort of look at it and go, well, there's very little like private in this public private finance. Well, the problem with PFI was people didn't like it. And I think a lot of that was down to the confusing name. It shouldn't really take off. So I think we're going to, we're going to give it a more reassuring name like don't worry about it. we're gonna give it a more reassuring name. Like, don't worry about it.

Yeah, it will be a big boost. Let's see, that's right. So, her wouldn't love a big loose pussy. It's roommate, it's compassion. I'm trying, the fuck. There's room to take a nice book with you. So, the weird thing, right, is that this is trying to do what you might call bidenism

on the cheap. It's trying to do bidenism without spending like... Classic Britain. Yeah, I was gonna say it's a very classic Britain. The funniest thing of all, I don't know if this is funny. This is bidenism in the middle aisle of Lidl. It's called Yo Thick Boyd. So, it's got a free scuba diving mask in the box for some reason. So, the weird thing is though, right, and follow me on this, that because the US is spending

so much money on all of this, these things, that increases the prices for all of them. It increases the prices for like batteries and the equipment to make wind turbines, which means that our attempt to do bidenism on the cheap is going to be made even less effective because we're going to be able to buy even less of what we need. So the amount of the amount of actual spending power that we can direct towards this thing, which already is a fraction of what we need is going down rather than up. It's almost as though we should have done all of this stuff 10 years ago. It would have been sort of a little bit liberal, don't you think? Remember when we could borrow money at zero interest rates,

and a lot of people weren't investing loads of money and stuff like wind farms and solar panels. We had to put all of that money into a series of scams. Oh, yeah, slim flams. I remember those. We had to do that in order to provide entertainment for people who listened to this podcast. Yeah, we were building this big pyramid. Yeah, I'm sorry to the listener, the howl thing has been a stitch up by us.

We made successive Tory governments do that stuff so that we do the marble architecture. We did the marble arch mount even. That was us, yeah, yeah. So this is for some solar panels. Instead, they took that money and out out the house They built a sort of like low poly hill. They said hey, we could put a few solar panels on the top of me, but like no, no, no Yeah, this is really is talking to the financial time

We've been we were taking government subsidies for a period of about five years to go and price solar panels of people's roofs in the middle of the night. We've made your house cooler and more manly. That's right. So Reeves told the Financial Times that her policy of Securonomics, which is basically like, oh, that's a common expression. That's a juice, me, Rachel.

No, that's a common expression. Right. Had to be based on... Still stupid. So Reeves told the Financial Times that her new policy of Securonomics had to be based on quote Still stupid. So, Reeves told the financial times that our new policy of secure dynamics had to be based on, quote, the rock of fiscal responsibility.

Amazing. On this rock of fiscal responsibility, I shall build my church. Do I in the rock of fiscal responsibility, Jungerson? And within the rock of fiscal responsibility, the sword of apathy. We've embedded the rock of fiscal responsibility, the sword of apathy. We've embedded the rock of fiscal responsibility into one corner of the car.

Perfect. So this is, I'll go further, but that it has to fit within her fiscal rules of taxation and spending. That means it's so fucking ungrateful that we spent a good 10 years shooting birds into the path of wind turbines with T-shirt cannons. And this is how the government repays us by still trying to decarbonize the economy. So our 28 billion pound,

now we are not as big as the US to be fair, but the US is spending $369 billion on subsidies and tax breaks to rapidly decarbonize the economy in a way that again, we'll not in make the US more just country, but it will probably work. Right. It will give them the edge of a China, and that's what matters. Yeah. And also us, but by accident, because they forgot to think about us.

We are clinging on to those coattails in NATO. Well, and why do you think Rishi Suneck is... Sometimes the crumbs on the table are the nicest bet. Yeah. Well, why do you think Rishi Suneck is obsessed with trying to negotiate any kind of trade deal with the US? It's because we want to be inside the umbrella of the inflation reduction act. We don't want to be competing with them.

He's furious, though. In the UK, you still can't get like normal hot chasers. You can only get the puffy ones. So it's not even real ones. They're the ones that are imported from Poland. And what makes that doubly funny is that it is a group of a few hundred thousand sociopathic scotch Irish loyalists who live in Northern Ireland who are basically more or less keeping that trade deal from happening. So again, plus Biden's genuine antipathy to the UK as a country, which we can only respect. So it's so funny if the Tories end up doing United Ireland, but just for the purposes of

doing like more evil stuff, like they're like, what the big evil plan we have is so important that we can't be fucking around with Ireland anymore. Have it back. So Reeves has also promised to cut public debt as a share of GDP over five years, which will force her to reduce her 140 billion pound five year green program. She said the rules were paramount and that fiscal discipline is really, really important. The rules were paramount.

And so that we will continue. I really hate that you have to like adopt this sort of head teacherish aspect to be chancellor of the ex-JECCA. But then again, considering the last guy who did it without doing that, it was just like, yeah, I'm going to get in there and fuck around, it was quite a quiet thing. So, yeah. So, colleagues, one colleague added, we will tell you that Rachel knows how to say no.

Which is weird, because the treasury in the totally unprecedented position of saying no to funding something. I think. But a fucking novelty that's going to be. I love so much how hard the labor party under some extent, the Democrat, the Democratic party in the US. Their electoral strategy is constantly being like, you think our guy is good?

Don't worry, he sucks. He sucks so bad, he's a punishing hang. He only ever says no. He would never eat a slice of birthday cake. And I just want you to rest assured that he will be chewing chips of ice throughout his entire tenure in this office and making sure that nothing good ever happens.

So, and all that means, right? What you're discussing, that attitude means that you're sort of taking the ultimate disciplinary institute of the neoliberal state and trying to put it in charge of something that's supposed to allow the functions of the state to continue. So when I say that we're putting dedicated neoliberals in charge of the thing that's supposed to replace it, forgive me if I sort of worry that this will end up being a kind of paper exercise and maybe one or two turbines might get built. Maybe.

Oh no. Here's what I think. I think, again, I think that hands are going to get forced by circumstance. And I think you can interpret this with the lens of the shock doctrine, right? Is that this new ideology of, you know, all-time neoliberalism or, you know, big, wet pussyism or whatever the fact we're calling it, right? That's going to happen as we get to these, like, unsustainable, intolerable crises, whether that's the NHS or whether that's the thing that's coming down the line next with food security or water quality, any number

of these things, which will be like legitimate security issues. And I think that kind of like, you know, securitization, that kind of secure analysis is going to like really be the deciding factor and what's great is this is Kirstama's comic punishment, right? Because we could have had a prime minister who would have loved to have done this shit. Instead, we're getting a prime minister

who is gonna hate it every step of the way who is gonna be forced to do the minimum viable socialism and like loudly complain the whole time. But I think that's kind of like telling about what sort of acceptable when it comes to these types of things anyway. Cause like even during COVID and sort of like one thing that Victoria's kind of did that was sort of good.

And I don't wanna say I'd be, but very much kind of like being forced to do like furl fellow schemes to do, like, to actually sort of like, half the put money into the system in order to make it function. And Rishi Suneck sort of being the whole time, like, yeah, actually I hate doing this.

And that was his job. His job was literally to kind, and like, the reason he got valorized by like all the news, like organizations were doing the very basic thing was because he was like, well, I actually kind of hate doing this. And I feel like maybe that's it. Like the acceptance is, I don't think Alice

that you're completely right in the sense of like, I think all the political parties kind of have to accept, like circumstances are going to overshadow them. And like, it doesn't really matter what your policy position is because like it none of it is going to matter anyway. And so really all the labor Party kind of has to do is kind of just all they have to save a line. And the line is like, we're not going to do anything,

but also if we're going to do anything I promise that we're going to say that we really hate doing it. And also everyone's going to hate it, don't worry. Yeah. And it's also going to be like the worst version of it. I promise you, everything is still going to be shit. It's very, it gonna be like the worst version of it. I would promise you, everything is still gonna be shit. It's very, it's very like the British version of the Philosopher King, the only man worthy of being Prime Minister as a guy is having a miserable time. Like a guy, a guy you just hate, a guy for whom

the act of governing is disgusting to him. So if I, here's one for Viley, you're gonna enjoy this next line. If the choice is between the green prosperity plan, so you know, fighting climate change and adapting. I'm sure you think we'll have to be done, yeah. And the fiscal rules, the fiscal rules will trump the former.

Great. Fantastic, cool. Great. Yeah, we'll have that tenor. Yeah, we're just like, it's just like cooking 20 year old tin of beans around a fire with your kids in like a wasteland and you're just like, well, you see,

the fiscal rules were more important. And I mean, you understand why the fiscal rules, you understand on one hand why they sort of do have to say that because they will need, if they're going to borrow to invest, they need to stop scaring international bond markets. But at the same time, none of that matters if you have failed to avert the existential risk. Yeah. Sically. So this is, we're going a little long, but I think it's worth doing that a little bit. This is from her paper that she recently released,

which again, I read all of, because I love my life. It's fun isn't it? You love readingomics. Yeah, I did a, just a brief start by here. It's fun isn't it to think about a what point in that, you know, given that the sky in New York is currently orange. Like at what point will like the bond markets

and finance markets in general start, like pricing in to their financial risk assessments, the fact that it could all just be over by the time this bill comes to you, like kind of being like, well, they're gonna owe that money to him, but his office is in San Diego. So I reckon it's a good chance that'll have burned down by the time that they have to pay that money.

So in a way, that's not really a dead at all. If you want to, I have an answer, which is that this is already happening in the insurance industry. If you want to try and ensure, like, a property in Florida or California, for instance, over a long term, that you can't do it in a lot of cases. Oh, sorry. A lot of places will become uninsurable before they become unenhabitable.

One interesting thing about the Florida thing is that that's part of the answer, but not the whole answer. The real actual whole answer is that, and this is super fucking weird, is that a bunch of companies have gone work. A bunch of small business guys and lawyers and like local lawyers,

I've got together in Florida to essentially rewrite the insurance codes such that insurers now have to pay such enormous payouts on even stuff that doesn't happen. Like they will just have to pay to replace. Yeah, it's so fucking bizarre, but it's more of a, in Florida itself, weirdly, it's more of a local corruption story.

I mean, California, it's definitely that though. You have to pay insurance for some stuff that doesn't happen, really flying in the face of the whole point of the insurance industry there. That's a huge, massive oversimplification. I wanna do a whole episode on Florida insurance, actually, at some point. I look forward to finding whatever the really dumb joke is in that.

That's the business model, baby. I'm cum Dracula. You're a Florida. I don't know how we get that is cum Dracula's the fucking lagoon. I want to drink your calm. I don't know how we're going to get there in the Insurance episode, but trust us we will get come Dracula insurance to Florida anymore. They're right So mom was a dryston shun. This is from Rachel Reeves paper a new business model for Britain

Oh boy The defining mission of the next labor government will be to secure the highest to stay in growth in the g7 Well, considering our economy is growing at what point five.5% right now, with good jobs and productivity growth in every part of the country. So see that good jobs and productivity growth in every part of the country. It's pretty much one for one. What if I were to bad job?

You know what, like, you have one. Oh, that's a good point. Yeah. To me, that mission, labor will pursue a modern supply side agenda. So not like that antiquated supply side agenda for student in the 1980s, where they didn't securitize a few more industries, but a modern one. Yeah, that's going to

be an ape. Yeah, we will forge a new partnership with the private sector again, finally, a new one. All the previous ones didn't work, but I'm sure one more they're going to do the trick. So firms can invest, grow and create decent well paid work in the process. All told we'll make Britain's economy stronger, and more resilient to shocks than an uncertain world will invariably throw at us. So this is the idea of subsidizing these productive, often regional jobs to then revitalize the regions of the country by Sam K.

Well, the new wind turbine factory is going to go where the old steel mill was, right? This is what's happened. This is part of the plan in, in, in, in the US. There's no plan to like even if, even, and correct me if I'm wrong, like, I'm missing something here. Well, like, so the idea is that you want to create, you want to make the economy more resilient. And you also need like long term sustainable jobs, which can allow that, because

the problem right now is that there's too much insecurity, which means that the shocks can't be absorbed. And a lot of that lack of resilience is because a lot of the utilities and services are kind of like either entirely privatized or mostly privatized. And outsourced. And so so, but their solution isn't to be like, OK, well, we're going to create resilience by having control of like utilities, no. And the workers around that to make sure

that everyone is still able to get basic supplies. Her thing is we're going to try, we're going to forge a new relationship, all these outsources, all these contractors, all these sort of other firms, and like, well, we'll figure it out. So am I correct in like, about an ounce or? You're not far wrong.

Right. Well, the part of the idea, right? And again, this requires problems that they don't seem committed to solving, whether this is just because it's wonkish, right? But sort of like marginal pricing of energy is one of the reasons that we're in this giant mess that we're in, which I've talked about in the past, but I'll remind you is that marginal pricing of energy is one of the reasons that we're in this giant mess that we're in which I've talked about in the past but I'll remind you is

That the price of energy is set by the highest price dirtiest Source of energy so if natural gas is a hundred dollars, let's say per kilowatt hour Then even though wind is free to produce and basically free to distribute you you can still charge $100 per kilowatt hour, which is the way that they were trying to incentivize and de-risk people starting to build wind turbines. But that means that no matter how much green energy we build, until you get rid of that way of pricing it, which I don't think anyone in the industry is going to particularly like, then you're still, it doesn't matter like how many of these, like, turbine manufacturers

you invest in, it's not going to reduce the price of energy, but you might not have to depend on someone else for it. No one will be able to threaten to turn off your lights, essentially. Fantastic, okay, well that's good, isn't it? So, but this isn't, so I've sort of glossed what's in the description of what they're gonna do, right?

But this is the section of new they're going to do, right? But this is the section of new deal for working people and a new deal is fucking not. They start off as saying a genuine living wage, none of these fake living wages that we've been seeing. Yeah, genuine. A new one. A job security that ensures workers aren't exploited and standards that guarantee a safe and fair workplace.

Fine. Stronger collective bargaining rights, great. But they talk about updating our inefficient and outdated industrial relations framework. Again, fine, but they're seeing unions mostly in their current state in the UK, which is like defensive organizations. But that most of this is saying that the way

that this is gonna be solved is the things like higher wages, greater job security, and more empowerment leading to better motivated workers. We're in the good jobs, Lever. Yeah, this is basically just the solved. There's the things like higher wages, greater job security, and more empowerment leading to better motivated workers. We're the good jobs lever. Yeah, this is basically just the good jobs lever. Yes, good jobs, extremely important and mostly defended by strong trade unions. All of that is true. Well, first of all, they're going to have to build the good jobs lever.

And that's probably going to be a very big lever because we've got to have make a lot of jobs. So that's probably going to create some jobs too. But the Danish government will be building the good jobs lever. And, of course, and we talk about the, but this is much less concerned with things like benefits. And one of the ways that benefits are important

is that they make your job better because they allow you to leave it without threatening you with destitution. Oh, also things like having an actually funded and effective NHS is not really part of the Reeves Enomics plan, especially because. Oh, awesome. Yeah. Now, they say, we need strong public services.

We need a functioning NHS, right? So, Rachel Reeves is saying, oh, these things need to be good, but you never hear the plan as to how. However, if you sort of connect a few things together, you can also look, okay, well, what does Starmer say when he talks about the NHS, when he talks about public services? Because there is a real allergy, and again, this is going to come back to something Alice had earlier, which is reform may be forced upon them. The kinds of reforms they don't want to do is one of the things that they want to avoid

doing is removing the fake internal markets that were sort of created to sort of govern healthcare and education in this country, right? Yeah, and the NHS trusts, or like education authority, stuff like this. Yeah, and this is something again, in the reaction to the sort of the Corbin manifestos, they say, we don't, we think that if you sort of are dicking around with, you know, the old massive top down reorganizations, you're forgetting people's real priorities, despite the fact that the way that these things are organized specifically gets in the way of them delivering good services.

Yeah, why aren't you fiddling around with, you know, the way that the NHS works when people care about their health care? And it's like, yeah, there's an obvious relationship between those two things. It's like someone going like, ah, the soldiers on the front lines don't need people making the bullets. They need people. They're shooting the bullets. And it's like, well, no, you see. Yeah. So, but this is, this is what I mean, right? There is very little appetite within this way of, of envisioning and organizing the economy for things

like a strong Keynesian welfare state, for things like redistribution and for things like like actual resilient public services. Because the stuff in the NHS is crazy. I remember like reading a bit about it last year. And the extent to which there are just huge amounts of money that are like ceremonially wasted in the NHS, doing nothing,

but just purely because of like various internal markets that have been created and just like, ah yes, well, then what we have to do is we have to buy 100 million units of this drug and then we have to throw it away because of a PFI contract that makes us do that every year. I'd love to change this light bulb, but it's gonna cost 1,500 pounds

to get someone from Circo to come look at it. And then, you know, anyway. We have to call the Sudanese government for some reason, that's an expensive call. And then they have to call the Danish government. So this is, but they talk about like, oh, we need strong public services like the NHS and schools and stuff in order to make sure

that people can work better. All of it comes around, you know what, it is Starship Troopers, economic service guarantees citizenship. Yeah, yeah. Well, you know, all of the, you know, loads of the nurses left and went to work in other places because the wages weren't high enough. We weren't going to pay them any more Saturday to expenses. So now what we've had to do to cover the nurses is we've had to get in a bunch of agency

nurses and they cost a lot more than the pay rise for the nurses would of course and also the standard of care is lower but it was a saving. Yeah because it's capital spend rather than staffing spend and those are different because the money is different. Exactly, it's different kinds of money. It comes out of different parts. But you tell me all these parts are coming out of the same pipe. Good money and fat money.

Yeah. So we talk, look at what Starmer talks about about a functional NHS is he says that look The NHS it needs to work and everyone wants it to work But we have to be hard-nosed about reform and this is what you hear streeting talking about and and when you want to talk And when When Reeves is promising through revotonomics which will somehow Without borrowing anything and in fact reducing the debt as a percentage somehow, without borrowing anything, and in fact, reducing the debt as a percentage of GDP without taxing anything, and without, like, without doing

anything necessary, right, is going to arvel over by and completely unhooks. Yeah. It's going to do all of this. It's okay. Well, you can actually spend the, not just spend the money on, like, healthcare and education, but are you going to reorganize it? So much of it doesn't just go to these strange, broken internal markets. So I'll go back to what I was saying earlier, which is something Alice was saying, which

is if you're going to have to confront these internal markets and you don't want to, and so you're going to confront them in a minimalist way, and it's going to be just enough to keep it ticking over until eventually the whole internal market ends up being sort of ceremonial. But I'm having a very scared of markets. I went for a market once in Morocco. I was like, what a hate to discuss with them about the price of a carpet.

Yeah, so. And then this is, and you eat a bunch of professional Amazon. And the magic money tree is gone, but it's replaced by the kindly wizard in the form of AI. Ah, the kindly wizard. the form of AI. The kindly wizard. So, at Starmer says, the NHS just look at it. The 8th, 8th, in fact, you're...

The oxygenary defines the NHS as, unacousted as I am to help explain. Starmer's slowly turning into Brian Bussifield. Okay. Right, okay. The other eight chess. Just look at it. The eight o'clock scramble. The appointments missed. Opportunity missed. To spot the pain that turned out to be a tumour. Fucking hell. It's really, sentence one here, okay. Patients who want to go home are well enough to go home, but who have to stay at a hospital

for months. Waiting for a care package. Yeah, the call of duty. Day-long wait today and a record numbers off work, so people pulling their own teeth out. Yeah, like the people listening to you talk. Seven million on waiting, waiting, waiting list. Who's writing this? It's the world's most charismatic man. Yeah.

It says, I don't think the, he says, I'll take it from here. I don't think the NHS survives more, five more years of Tory government. Yeah, it probably doesn't. People can say we've heard this before. The Labour Party is always saying, It could survive six more years if me. People are always saying that the Labour Party is always saying,

it's time to save the NHS. But I say, look squarely in the eyes of the people who work at the NHS and ask them. But mark my words, if all we do in the labor party is place the NHS in a pedestal and leave it there, that's not good enough either. So don't worry, we're still going to mutilate it, but we're going to mutilate it respectfully, unlike the Tories. So, this is the thing, right? We got to fix the fundamentals, renew its purpose, and make it fit for the future. That's what this mission is about. But again, none of that's going to involve attacking the actual root causes, even though the, as you say, right, this is going to become a kind of security issue sooner rather

than later, because all of a sudden, when you can't just outsource all of your complicated or difficult or expensive problems to cheap foreign energy or cheap labor overseas or whatever, when those things start coming home and all of a sudden your ability to reproduce society, that becomes a security issue and everything is connected to it and the amount of it that's going to become a security issue

is going to expand and the amount of it that's going to become a security issue is going to expand and grow. And so, yeah, but consider, for instance, more heat waves and worse and what that's going to do to our beloved economy and our beloved good jobs. You're going to have to swing me big. Yeah, so maybe let's start there. We need an NHS free at the point of view. It's paid for by taxation. But then it asks, what do we need to change?

And what are the challenges? The opportunities, the problems, the issues. How can we save lives, improve lives, provide more dignity? Innovation? Where can it be found? People? How do we unlock their purpose? The things that are increasingly warhammer technology?

How do we make it work for us? And when you've asked those searching questions, you turn back, you roll up your sleeves, and you crack your hog, your face reality. So this is, so what are you talking about, right? Is the, is he's unable to start to, he's unable to confront this problem, except by saying there will still need to be reductions. We will still need to find efficiencies. And how do you do that, right? How you do that is they're partly again, some things that will kind of work in a demonetized way,

right, like trying to fund social care. But again, who are you funding? Are you funding it directly from the councils? Are you funding a bunch of the private outsourcers who will like take on one old man for like 40 billion pounds a month. Yeah, one old man is being treated by 15 guys from circa.

He used to be in the prison of transport division. Guys in riot gear turning out to hope you take a shit. Right? And so what's really striking in this document though, is that pay is mentioned like once. Oh, yeah, increasing the pay of the of the staff who are chronically short for short fallen because we don't pay them enough. So we talk a lot about kind of forward to do that until we've cranked the good jobs, leave it all the way up, not including

theirs jobs, though. Their jobs, those are bad jobs, but we'll get some more good jobs in like other sectors of the economy and hope that sort of like lifts all boats, you know. And so he also talks about trying to do more preventative healthcare, which will be fine. It says the fact that he says we'll change advertising rules and we'll make sure that products that are harmful to our children's health, such as vaping and sugary snacks, cannot be advertised in Britain. All the flavors will have to be changed.

They're even slightly havin' New Zealand. That was the hairy growl of it. So, the move from the analog to the digital NHS, a tomorrow service, not just to today's service. Okay. Whatever that means. Thanks, Kew. If we give an example, 33 million people downloaded the NHS app during the pandemic,

and it's a good app. What a great way to start. It works so many times. Labor would take the app and innovations like it, would deepen them, expand them, and put them in the hands of patients, and use them to transform our relationship with the NHS. And again, like, sure, that would be great, but the fact that you're gonna be heavily relying.

You wanna see a doxxer, man. I, my fucking GP runs out of appointments at 8.32 in the morning. And I don't, what is an AI going to do for me? What is an app going to do for me? That, you know, could not be done better by hiring more fucking doctors. I mean, also, this is basically sort of saying that like after a very long time of being told, do not, do not go on web m and md and like diagnose yourself to be like, well, we're going to give you lots of different ways to diagnose yourself.

And you might get the diagnosis wrong. You're gonna get some of like self care tips off of the app because that's all you're fucking gets. Well, you might get the diagnosis wrong, or you might get it right, but ultimately the material thing, because like, ultimate is like, well, okay. If I'm able to use one of these apps to like determine

what I might have, I still kind of need medicine to sort of figure out. So you got like, then you've got the guy from down the pub who's now been fast-tracked to be a doctor because he read like a pamphlet about it while he was having six points to stether. And now he's a doctor. My favorite example of this is poor pharmacists as a profession because of all the like people that we've roped in, like, you know, retired doctors, the ambulance service, people from the town and stuff. Your regular ass local chemist is now essentially being asked to do open heart surgery just like in their own waiting area.

It's great. I love that shit. I cannot get enough of it. Every like week that goes past, you get an announcement that like some new thing that like you used to have to be a doctor for is now, that's just being dumped on pharmacists as well. So yeah, by all means, you know, fuck it. If I need like a transplant,

I guess I'll just get my dentist to do that because he's kind of like a fucking surgeon. The new service should be like kind of like when like the you know both pilots are incapacitated on a plane and just like one of the guys from the plane who's like really good at driving has to land the plane and you're getting talk through it by aircraft control they're like oh yeah you've got a block tardery so what you're gonna need to do is if if you've got a scalpel, kitchen knife will do. He's dead. Yeah, that's just like,

they're just talking you through doing surgery on yourself. So basically, about the blue wire at once. In a Q&A after the speech, right? Starmer was asked how this would be funded, right? Because a lot of what he's talking about is uplifting the service. Like, that's the great, but it won't.

Yeah. But he just, he's talking about uplifting the service, not reorganizing or transforming the service, like that's the great bit, it won't. Well, he does, he's talking about uplifting the service, not reorganizing or transforming the service, not dealing with like perverse incentives created by internal markets, but yeah, if Britain could focus more on preventative healthcare and getting people out of beds through social care, if we could actually hire more doctors, if we could pay them more, I mean, again, pay mentioned once and only refers to fairly not anything like world leading or whatever, nothing like that, but never mind, right? Then yeah, that would be much better for everybody who lives here.

And so when you ask what NHS funding, that's the last thing we want is Britain. Oh, now. NHS funding. You said technology can do what money can't. Uh-huh. Well, like, suck your dick. Do you remember a little phrase I like to use called, or we can do as the impossible?

Yep. Yep. Well, he talked about the potential of AI, for example, to save countless lives, which he and his true, because AI is good in a medical setting, because it's solving bounded, but difficult problems, like spotting tumors in lungs and stuff. It's actually pretty good at that.

But the idea of it, that like the potential of AI to save countless lives and establishing incentives to innovate throughout the system, we've invented a health system that works and breaking it and saying, all right, someone invent a way that works but for free. It's a great time to say it too, especially after like that story about the helpline,

the suicide helpline, that, when AI and that being, then that, uh, but telling people to go kill themselves. So, You can use, you can get mental healthcare on the NHS now. Bad news, it is, it is being delivered by a computerized Harold shipment. The bot was the only person giving its honest opinion. Yeah.

So almost like, yeah, that does sound pretty fucked up. So the, um, the, the Star Wars speech concludes, old values, new opportunities, technology and science, convenience and control, renewal, not decline, and NHS not just off its knees, but running confidently towards the future. 12, 12, 12, 12, 12 freedom. Amazing. So look, I mean, I think that- I think that- that- that- that- that- that like brought false hope, that music man style to like a town in the Ohio River, but it's also like that book about the dignity of work by Lord Krutas. It's also about like the various like a secure, economic supply chain stuff like all of these things are the transformations that are now being finally reacted to, too little too late,

and in ways that do not touch the various third rails that will have to be touched if it's gonna work, but nevertheless, in politics, in ways that I think are different enough to understand through a different set of concepts than neoliberalism. It just feels like the new Labour Party manifesto, really, all of the new Labour Party,

and I do, because it's not a manifesto. It's very much the idea of like, well, we're just going to like accumulate a bunch of things. I'm really just trying to fit in a reference here, which is accumulate lots of things into a big, a big pussy. Yeah. Can't do it. I can't, I'm not done. We are going to stuff a bunch of new technology into the NHS's big loose pussy. That's right. I can't believe that that was the running gag. I can't believe that was the storm of real life. We shall BLP outcomes.

We're going to cram a load for services into the NHS's big loose pussy. Oh, awful. Very important. All right. All right. One that as a nation we all respect. That's it for today. We do sexualize.

I'm calling mostly the Geifbust or so To which we're ever stole one I retired. I am calling time on this particular episode. Thank you for listening to this. There will be a bonus episode. It will be five dollars. There also are going to be other bonus episodes. Within our out.

Within Big Lee's pussy on Patreon. Written on not out. I'm big least pussy on Patreon. Ritonology. And then I'll be at least Patreon. That's right. Colonsy trashy chiffessy. There are going to be two episodes as well on the ten dollar tier, extra Britonologies and writtenologies. There's a stream Thursdays and Mondays from nine to 11 UK time.

I'm usually on it. I won't be this evening. Well, when you listen to this, I might be, but I won't be this evening from me being recording it. Yeah, at some point in the past, if you sang me right now, wondering, I wonder why Rally wasn't on the stream some days ago. That's why I'm going for dinner at my cousins. Yes, if you want to track Rally down some days in the past, go to Rally's these cousins out stepping out of a time machine why weren't you on the stream yeah we were talking before you know about who say it's a really hot day today London and who say and arrived in a coat it was a hot time travel but just like trivia Lee was the office morning look it was it was chilly this morning. Thank you Jack. It was a reasonable, it was a reason that I'm wearing a t-shirt

underneath it. It's a reasonable like thing to have right now. No, no, you know, you're fine. You time traveled to bring a warning from November. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's really cold. No, but like also bearing in mind the trajectory, November could actually be very, very hot.

So like, that's true actually. I think it's still just working my jacket. Like, well, it's still November. It's still jacket wherever I'm going to wear it. You could recently be bringing the warning from November. This is quite cross-way. The worst thing to happen to us, like me and his same people who like a coat, like a jacket, is the apocalypse where it gets hotter.

Why did it have to be that? Why that? I like the idea that no matter what, the weather, her stain's constant, is a winter coat. So and then he just has to adjust his other clothing around it So if it's really hot you've just got to do the like you've done a ray under a coat. I mean I have I have I have done like the vest underneath Jacket before oh nice, so I am getting all right all right Enough fartsing about I think I've done all the promo. Yeah, two two dates for me If you want to see me in Manchester, it's too late

You should have bought tickets earlier your dogs. Yeah, you could have gone back in time and gotten tickets to go see This week in London Manchester were all a big coats. That's right. Yeah, they're also you meet at the pub afterwards Yeah, this week on Wednesday the 14th of June I be doing, that was one of the Jimmy Savile there. I'll be doing a show in London at the Seckford is the preview of the new show. There will also be a show in Bristol on June 23rd, I want to say, come to that. There will be shows in July also. I can't remember what, but there's a bunch of dates on my website. You can pick the show that's nearest to you. That's you right and are you going to be in Scotland on August the 4th?

Are you? We will also be there at the fringe. Yeah, August the 4th. Yeah, the TFI show will be on August the 4th. I don't know if it's on sale yet but it will be on sale soon and yeah my show will also be running every, every fucking day. Yeah, you're gonna love that. Anyway, it's a noon. Yeah, it's a noon. It's not a bad time of day for a comedy show. What else are you doing? You're at it's lunch.

We're dangerous. Get the fuck out of it. It's pre-launched. You're pre-lunching your lunch by coming to my stand-up show and then you go and eat and be like what a lovely time we had. That's exactly it. Anyway, anything else to plug? No, nothing to plug. All right. Thanks. Bye everybody. Bye. Bye!