TRASHFUTURE - SESTA Fiesta ft. Pepper Hart

Episode Date: April 20, 2018

Welcome to episode town. Riley (@raaleh), Milo (@milo_edwards), Alex (@AlexKealy), and Olga (@rocknrolga) sit down with adult film star Pepper Hart (@pepperhartxxx) to talk about sex, sex work, sex toys, and we do a big reveal of... who's never fucked before. Donate here to the Sex Worker Outreach Project's "SWOP Behind Bars" campaign, which raises money for sex workers in prison. https://www.gofundme.com/swopbehindbars Fanks Love riley xoxo

Wait, wait, in Mall Cop? Who is he? Does he have sex with Mall Cop? Someone really hot. Wait, can you Google who is the female lead in Mall Cop, please? It would waste precious internet. Shout out to the podcast till death do us part. I hope we all know this. It's the podcast where they each Thanksgiving. Don't plug another podcast. I think it's already fair.

Pass this right now and listen to a better podcast. Don't pause this. I'm just saying. Play them simultaneously like a brain genius. I'm just saying, I think, you know, I'm trying to bring in some sort of BBC other podcast exists, sort of vibe to this podcast. I think it's important that people know about other Paul Park based podcast. Okay, I'll shut up now. I'll shut up now. All I've done is recommend another podcast.

Thank you, Alex. Very helpful. Welcome to Trash Future, the podcast about how the future, if we do not implement fully automated, luxury, gay, space communism, is and will be trash. My name is Riley. You can find me on Twitter at Rala, R-A-L-E-H. And who am I joined by here in sunny London? Hi, my name is Olga, or you can find me on Twitter at Rock and Rollga. And in fact, my hair is not a wig.

What? Did people say it was a wig? I'm just trying to make it a thing. You're trying to make it a thing? Your hair is so good, that. You've got to go comb over. That's the key. Bald ponytail, bald ponytail. It's actually a toupe.

You've got to go bald ponytail. Hi, my name is Alex Keely. You can find me at Alex Keely. Olga said that I had a lot of hair this morning, and then directly said afterwards that famous seaball people had a high sex drive. So that was a really great one, too. People bald because of testosterone. So I guess Alex doesn't have much. It's a one, two personal fact about me,

and then general fact about sex drives. It wasn't my favorite conjoining of facts. That's a really interesting way to reveal the trash future relationship. I did not consent to this. Well, we'll see if Nate... I love you. I love you. I'm so in love with you. And joining us from sunny Russia. Hi, yeah, it's me, Milo Edwards.

You can find me on Twitter at Milo underscore Edwards. I'm still in Russia, a country with which we edge ever close to war. So I may soon be coming at you from an internment camp. So fingers crossed for that. Milo and I are also dating. And from... Actually long lost siblings. Which makes it even harder.

Oh, weird. And from... I don't know, probably sunny out Los Angeles or the West Coast. Somewhere nice. Yes. Hi, I'm Pepper Hart. I'm on Twitter as Pepper Hart, XXX your favorite shadow band Redhead. Your shadow band?

Yeah, like instantly as soon as I noticed it. And then also Instagram because I'm very successful on Instagram. So please Pepper Hart. Pepper is an adult actress and who she's going to talk to us about being a funny hot girl online and also about Cesta, the upcoming ridiculously reactionary anti-sex work bill, which is being pushed through Congress for reasons of... That are totally beyond me.

Not totally beyond me. They're all reactionary bigots in Congress. Yes, things are bad. But before we get there, in classic TF fashion, I have procured for us a product. This is called the Icon.

I, full stop, C-O-N. So it's really openly defrauding us. That's the premise of this. Precisely. Any guesses as to what the fuck this thing might be? Just from the name. Just from the name.

What do you what do you think? Is it an object or is it an app? Oh, it's an object and I object to this object. Is it consumable? No, it is not a consumable guys. It's Hillary Clinton. Locker up. Sorry, it's is that answer on the board.

Survey says Hillary for prison. I believe it's category. Crooked Hillary. Crooked Hillary for prison. It's Barf Sacco Crumbler. That's what they call Barack Obama by the end. They kept on trying to fuck with his name and they called him Barf Sacco Crumbler.

Wait, Icon. How is that spelled again? Is it I as in I as in like the thing in my in my face? Lowercase I like a letter full stop C-O-N. What's the name? I can't stop laughing at it. Oh yeah. I mean if you get like I like a look like a like a like a like hacker hacker.

Hack her kid for babies. Hack her kid kid, Kid. Kids hacking baby kid hacking. Hack baby kid hacker. Maybe a man. Alright, OK. Teach you. Baby, weed retail baby to half baby.

Kids. Some babies have clearly hacked Alex's brain. I think I saw boss baby and it's been all downhill since then. The baby is hacking again. Okay. Alex is really trying to have a baby with me. He's trying to hack a baby. Hack a baby or gone.

He's doing life hacks. You're the best life hack. Is it a baby carrier made of like ostrich leather? Now that would be very. I like ostrich leather. Okay. I'm going to I'm going to read a redacted version of the product description.

It's okay. Welcome to the future of wearable technology in the blank. Okay. It's like Google glass kind of thing because it's icon. It goes on a part of your body. Not your eyes. It's Google glass before your dick. Yes.

Ew. What? No. What does that mean? Nothing looks. Nothing looks good from the inside. I'm like, I'm never like watching a colonoscopy. And I'm like, damn, like that's not what it is then.

It doesn't stop him from watching colonoscopy. I've got to find out what my I haven't really found what my kink is yet. So I was just, I just keep looking at things. I'm trying to find out. Like colonoscopies. Is this, is this the one? Finally.

Finally I'll feel something. I'll do anal sex, but only if it's collecting valuable medical data. Okay. Okay. No. It's the icon smart condom. Oh, okay.

Right. What? And before I could, I could just tell you what, what its functions are because it has a long list of functions, but GPS. Okay. Still can't find the clip. Okay.

So basically it says this have you ever wondered how many calories you're burning during intercourse? No. How many thrusts? No. I'm sorry. Speed of your thrusts. Well, I'm intrigued to sort of measure.

I think it's too short of physical motion to have a constant speed at all. I think there's a bit of acceleration and deceleration. Depending on how big your dick is. Yeah. I don't think there are dicks big enough where there's like a kind of basics like flight path in the middle of the middle of the thrust.

So I think it's a bit of acceleration. You've hit Pete velocity and then you slow down. Alex has had sex as well. What I'm trying to say is that I'm O Faye with the concept. Um, the duration of your sessions frequency. Oh boy. I mean, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

Yeah. We're waiting. Frequencies that they're implying they're reusing this. Yes. You got it. You got to hope that. Oh no. No.

I feel like some implied future horror in this object. There's a lot of horror. Riley's lit up smile face to the. Yes. The personalities of all the children you didn't have. It's 23 and not me. You're fucking in the next thing, you know, you like see a dick pill ad on Facebook.

Your cum was a little water. Or an ad for like colonic irrigation because I've seen up there and it's not pretty. Okay. I just love the idea that they're saying it'll track your frequency as though you just, you're like, you're like forgetting that you've had sex. You're like, oh, wait a minute.

Sex twice today. How often or like the radio frequency? Yeah. When I have sex, I always roofie myself. So it's not to forget. So it's not to remember. I don't want to remember. How many different position or sunshine?

Just basic sex. That's what you do. Yeah. Essentially. Okay. How many different positions you use in a period of a week, a month or a year? Ever wondered how you stack up against other people from around

the world? Absolutely not. Universe. Why don't make it? Why don't we make your insecurities international? Like I'm having more sex than most people in Beirut. What is the data that I get? They had to incentivize and gamify sex.

So people would want to have it. You know what will happen is there'll be a bunch of like 14 year old boys in South Korea who are fucking each other just just to win at the stats and much better at it than you. Well, like the world. No, and then we can't watch it. You buy your account. Pedophilic like like the whole fan base is just secretive on

4chan or whatever. Oh my. I can't wait for all of 4chain nice and secure. Oh my God. Well, you were dating. Well, you were dating girls. I was optimizing my thrust frequency studying the blade. So that's the thing is with this has come up before.

But also this is not a single use condom. I just didn't want to hear that phrase ever. If you look at the screen, we can describe to you what it is. It's like a dick ring. It's a cock ring where you you like hook a you hook a non reusable condom to it. So you need a condom that plugs into the cock ring and then the cock ring basically tells you some stats about how good you're

getting it in more or less. So it's just an apple watch around your dick. Yeah. Actually, I believe that's called a baby's arm holding an apple watch. I don't know. But I don't know if anyone's I don't know if I'd like my dick to tell him he's going and doing a good job. Like a sure way not to fuck me is like to take me home and then

unveil that thing on your dick. Well, Christopher Hitchens book next to the next to the bad or they've got an icon on. It's like a tough which is the which is the biggest tunnel for those two. I'm sorry. I have a boyfriend. I think it only it only comes in like.

A like a carbon fiber situation, but it definitely has a little Bluetooth light yet durable. Yeah. It just doesn't look. I mean, it doesn't, you know, it doesn't look un-painful. It feels like it feels like in a sort of quantum mechanics way sort of its measurement is altering what it measures. I think I don't think your thrusts are going to be exactly the same

having an icon on. I wouldn't know, but I'm assuming does it measure like distance and time like sort of Strava so you can compare. I've fucked 10 kilometers. Her pussy is so deep. My icon loses signal. Okay. Isn't this like in saying that they're just selling it for dicks

because you could use that for a strap on harness. Oh my God. They're a fucking weird really crazy nuva ring. Do you boys know what the nuva ring? I use nuva ring for three years. It changed my personality. It's a birth control ring that you stick up. It's also a name of a Norse God.

Yeah, that too. You know, you know what? As long as the nuva ring isn't Bluetooth connected, I'm not interested. Right? I'm sure that's what's next. I mean, connects to your soul shape. They remember.

My love is... I can't believe that Mark Zuckerberg's i.com data got hacked. That was the biggest embarrassment at the Joint Congressional. Interestingly, he uses a booster seat there too. Snap. Like that. Okay. So here's the thing.

Like they get people to vote Trump in again in 2020, just by all this important data about what kind of pipe people laying. But also people like suddenly get all this respect for Mark Zuckerberg because like the only type of sex he's having is reverse cowgirl. He is the cowgirl. They just start what they just start doing. Depressive voted, impressive turnout ads at like people in Michigan who like won't agree with go by in sector position.

Data they've hacked from the. So the the the FAQ sections of these products, as we know, are always a gold mine. One of the questions to just how does it work? Once your session, it says key question. Once your session is completed, you'll be able to use the icon app to download your data, which is paired to a phone using Bluetooth.

Once you have downloaded your data, the icon will automatically clear its memory, making way for your next session. That's what I like. It's like it's like a post-coital cigarette. That's what I do with regular sex post-coital cigarette. A post-coital cigarette is very 20th century. A post-coital app downloading so you can track your performance is the future.

Okay. How long is it before the first person gets caught cheating on their wife by this? I'm surprised. It hasn't already happened. I'm surprised. I think it's going to be a British politician for sure. Oh, definitely. Russ.

Can't. A strange wisdom. I'm excited for a crime to be solved through that. Oh, very good. Because I use like I use like Morse code to say that I'm held captive. You're passing information to the Russians using doggie style. So I'm loading some data into a Russian spies. I'm cagling.

Cagling SOS. So any guesses? Any guesses finally as to how much the icon costs? I've seen the price. So I'm out of the game. He owns one. Well, the thing is my parents got it for me. So I don't know how much it was, but I know roughly it's always like a rough amount.

They get me for Christmas. I know the I know the ballpark family. It wouldn't be fair for me to guess. I know roughly what they expand on a Christmas present for me. What price a man's dignity? And any guesses to the price of this before we carry on? $500 to 60. A hundred.

Wow. You guys are actually all over. None of you win the showcase round, which was which was a custom made icon. You shouldn't have proposed to her with this ring. I also I also don't want a custom made version of that. I feel like I'd rather a machine makes that than right. Right. It whittles it whittles it out of available materials.

Oh, you made it out of wood. That's going to shape. Also, this Bluetooth just appears to have been taped on. It's just you sellotape. It's a Bluetooth headset. A wooden ring. Okay. It's like 60 quid.

Oh my God. Easy. That's crowdfund one. We can totally buy one. If I was a man, I'd break it. So I'd have to have. Yo, is there a warranty? What if I fuck so hard?

I break my icon. But then what if the icon has the data being like, no, you didn't fuck hard enough for that to happen? You must have misused it in some way because they've called the data that they can they can go against you warranty wise and be like it wasn't. You misused it. Okay. The company's always fucking the little man.

I was not fucking the little man. It's something you could do with your icon. So there's been a lot of I'm going to do one more relatively non serious thing before we get into the relatively more serious thing, which is I don't know if you guys have seen this, but it's been all over British Twitter. There's a new app on the scene called toffee, which is new for Matt Hancock MP.

Well, you're not far off. It's the first dating app exclusively for posh people. What's the name of it again? Hit me with the name toffee. Oh, shit. Here is the article by Lydia Davis, who actually has an article in the telegraph of all reactionary. I was once in a telegraph.

A very big picture of me was in it. Thanks. Like I said, a telegraph like it was like you were in a 19th century transmission about the Boa war. Anyone who prints a picture of me as a friend of mine. Why I set up the first dating app for posh people dating has long been a central part of my adult life from meeting people in bars in my early twenties to launching a dinner dates company four years ago.

The thrill of encounters that could lead to love has never failed to excite me as a professional matchmaker at Mutual Attraction where clients will gladly pay four thousand five hundred pounds for six months of dating help. I know how overwhelming the wealth and dearth of potential dating partners could be. Just do a bunch of podcasts and meet the love of your life. That is why I've created toffee dating a niche app that connects

people who went to private school. But like, okay, how do they know? So like, so like, okay, so this is like obnoxious, but also like it's kind of inherently pointless. Supposedly because it's not half the point of why public schools and private schools are so insidious is that the best like thing to connect people to who go to private schools is sort of private schools. That's the whole point.

It's like a network of like a horrifically unfair old, old boys and old girls network. So it's like, I built an app to connect all these people. It's like, that's no, that's what the schools do. They already do. The schools already do that. They already do almost exclusively socialize with each other. They know each other.

That's like the most remarkable thing about them. Like, oh, God. Yeah, no, we paid fives together when we were both in the womb or whatever. So it is tailored to people on the posture end of the spectrum. Users are asked to answer questions about society events. They attend Henley or SW for the sports. They prefer Polo rugby and how they divide their time between the town and the basement Nazi sex or G.

So in effect, it's it's it. I think it is hilarious because it is basically just sort of giving a lot of credence to the idea that the rich are a completely different species. But also the other thing is Tinder can show where you went to school. You just put where you went to school and Tinder filter for it. Oh, you have to have to swipe left and a bunch of pores.

You can only filter on Grindr and grinder. You can filter for anything. I want to start using that. Did you? I'm on Grindr as Vladimir Putin. I'm not even I'm not kidding. of previous sexual encounters. Oh my God.

Yeah. No, I only filter for only filter for doggie style. Yeah, we need that's what we need to do. You need to connect the icon to a dating app. So you only date people who fuck good. I say connect that to LinkedIn. Oh hell yeah. I need someone with marketing experience.

Nine endorsing endorsing Olga for dicking down. That's really inappropriate. My love. Correct. I said it on this podcast. Have we talked about the have we talked about the other telegraph article about this? You're getting to that.

Oh, that this is discrimination against the rich. Yeah. So it's pretty. It's it's pretty brilliant. I saw that. I saw it today. Here's the transition. Okay.

Okay. Which is that this article says the aim of this app of this app isn't to promote snobbery or social division. It's to help people meet and fall in love. Just so long as they're from the same snobby. It's a language lifted from like segregation laws. It's about, you know, the original version of this was like, it's about breeding the master race crossed out helping people

meet and fall in love. So yes, it's it's not about snobbery and social division. It's just about making sure rich people never have to touch a parvo. It's all about. Olga's, Olga's windpipe reacted so heavily against that. Sorry. The reason I wanted to say was like, oh, I never saw my cousin

like that. Getting pretty. I went to Basildon once, but one of the povos stole my bag of bread crusts, which I was going to feed to them and knocked me over as a child. And ever since then, I've been traumatized and been unable to interact with them. And you, you absolutely smash on that app.

If you have that as your tagline, yeah. What's the other word? So the headline of this article is the amazingly unself-aware sneering at the new private school dating app is just another excuse to bash posh people. I'm like, yeah, it's the point of the app is to push people to bash each other, isn't it? But like, I mean, it's, it's, it's, it's a low, it's a low blow

maybe, but the name of the author of that article is Sophia Money Coots. Just to clarify, just to clarify because I don't think American, you know, American listeners or everyone will necessarily know. I mean, you got money there at the first. I mean, it's a double-barreled surname. That's a one. You've got money.

That's a two. Three. Coots is the name of the bank that the Queen uses. So my name is actually Sophia Money, Queens Money, like, which is like, I couldn't build a name. I was gonna say, I don't think you guys have this in the states, but like in Britain, there are banks for the fancier money. Oh, no, we have to drive it.

Imagine a bank so funny that you have to be on the money to bank with them. That is, that is good to be. If it's even fancier, then that's pretty fancy. But the, once here, you have to have like a million dollars to open an account. Yeah. And here you have to have technically the rights of everything

in the kingdom. And by the way, I never knew any of it. Technically, I own everything. It's really all just a lease from me. What was that? Before sex work, I didn't know about private banks, but now I do. Oh, yeah.

I love the idea of private banks. It's like, it's just a place that's storing your money. Yeah. Private banks are like, no, we're going to do it extra good. Pay them more and then they give you some money. Wait, actually. I'm happy with the interest rate. I'm currently receiving on my swan deposit.

The only, okay. The only device is to keep money in a cool dry place, which is my vagina. Sorry. Wait, but I just keep bashing the, but are you on it? I think you have to download it right now because you're the only one in this fucking podcast that could like actually

have an account. Dude, please download it. Is this the app I'm allowed? Is this the one? If you ever catch me, if you ever catch me with someone, I'd be like, well, we found the Posh app that you made me download on the podcast. So it's totally fine.

Yeah. So I just, I just wanted to bring that up this, that there is this thing. There is this thing in Britain that is essentially just so blind to social division that it is suggesting and it's suggesting that Posh, Posh is a race, I guess. I mean, it's a slur.

Yeah. Yeah. It's like, yeah, you can't bash Posh people just because, you know, they spent the last couple of hundred years bashing the rest of the world with the, with the British Empire. Yeah, great. I'm looking, I'm looking for. I can't, guys, maybe, maybe it's the, look, we talk about

the private school, non private school divide, but maybe the real divide is iPhone versus Android because it doesn't seem to be on the Android. Well, guys, the real point of the British Empire was to build railways so that people could meet and fall in love. And if that's a bad thing, Pepper, how did you, how did you first meet private banking? Um, through getting money from someone get in the context

of like pay pig, you like, say, give me money. And then, yeah, then I asked where I was from to sort of like, once I calmed down and got my money, like, oh, where do you bank? And then I learned about it. You try to play you in like guineas or silver pieces or something. I would take that, but no. Oh my God, Pepper, do you have Bitcoin? No, no, I am anti-coin as a stripper though.

Oh yeah, no, that would be, wait, no one ever tries to, no one ever tries to give strippers coins, do they? They do, they're not, they joke on Twitter and mean things like they would throw them, but in real life, they just like don't have money and then like set some coins down. Oh, no, I just imagine like a stack of change. I just imagine someone coming in with a giant jar of pennies and being like, there's $20 in here.

I mean, there's a bunch of jokes about this in the UK, but like in the UK, pounds and two pounds are coins. So you have to either give a fiver or up. It seems weird that they would want to create a dating app for people who all live in immediate close proximity to one another and all know one another anyway and all are probably already friends. It seems like it's solving a bit of a non-problem.

This made me think of a really good anecdote that a Russian comedian told me a while back about Putin and the Queen. He was late for the meeting, wasn't he? Just on the subject of like meeting the Queen, that he was hosting this show somewhere in Russia and Putin was supposed to show up and Putin was like an hour and a half late

and like the people in the room were getting very restless and he starts talking to like the Russian secret service guys and he's like, can you tell me like approximately when Putin is going to show up? And then they're like, no. And he's like, I mean, can you just give me like a vague idea and they're like, no, we really don't know. And he's like, well, what do you mean?

He's like, Putin can show up at literally any time. He's like, once the Queen of England waited for him for six hours, she lost her fucking rack. They're fucking like, okay. Honestly, that kind of. Yeah. I mean, I mean, if you're ever going to, if you're ever going to try to pressure someone

into giving up their precious swans. Right. We're not disputing. We're not disputing that. I would say like, I would say like, you know, or an evil person, he's got like a, he's got a sort of moderately bad history that he knows, he knows how to employ.

Like, lol, I'll keep the Queen waiting for a bit. Like, lol, I'll give like. Sorry, I was looking for a shirt. Lol, I'll, I'll like, I'll like, I'll deny, I'll deny like, I'll deny murders on foreign soil, but I'll do so with like a full, a wink. I mean, those Russian embassy tweets are hilarious.

Yeah. But like, I want them to be, I want them to be tweeted by someone with like, like a car too, like a sort of screenshot from the Simpsons and some sort of pun name, not like the Russian embassy in London, Blue Tech, like that's not,

that's not why I want reality to be. The Russian embassy tweets are like, imagining being on trial for murder and then just going, do you pay guilty or not guilty? You're just going like, well, who knows who did it? That is the smart condom and the posh dating app, again called toffee, which is dumb.

Guys are completely not affiliated with this, but if you want to discount on both, please enter the promo code come down. There's a, there's a, there's a waiting list on it. By the way, on the toffee dating thing, there's like a waiting list so you can't even join now. So you have to sign up now and then they've got like a little, like page is going to be like sign up now

and like good things come to those who wait. Like that's what that's what currently the toffee good thing. That's like me at the beginning of the date and that's like three hours later we're fucking. Before we transition to the final section, how do they spell good things come to those who wait? I believe it's the traditional C-O-M-E format,

not the C-U-M format. They missed a fucking trick on that one. They did miss one. The aubergine water spray emoji. I also think they were very lucky to be able to get the, it's called, it's toffee dot dating the website. I was very lucky that they managed to register their website in the country of dating, which is.

Oh my God. Now I love what happens. It's toffee dot dating. That's fucking a diet. Dating is actually a small Pacific Island nation that manages to make a lot of its money from licensing out its domain name. I have a final article here that is sort of relevant

to some stuff that's been going on in law. Before we, before we hop into it though, Pepper, can you explain what Cesta is? Yeah, I'm not the best person to ask, but I have because I just like I'm the, you know, the thing they're trying to prevent with Cesta, which is like my brain is just seeing too many penises

and I can no longer cope with reality. But Cesta is a real, it's really interesting because in America we kind of pretended that we weren't going to join the rest of like Europe, making up these stupid sex work laws that quote unquote criminalize the buyers of sex who are ostensibly men and the people who sell it who are ostensibly exploited women. And that's like what it's based on.

And the crazy thing was that it welled up so quickly and easily which is what they're doing with all sorts of bills. So I wasn't surprised by it in both houses of Congress, which is they're not like usually that coordinated that one copies the other one unless it's like car seat laws. Yeah, this Republican Congress seems to be very good at just like getting bizarre reactionary shit through really fast. Yeah, and I guess I'm not really explaining it to someone

who might not understand it necessarily, but it is a kind of more of an extension of the reversal on the open internet that we had. Some people call it net neutrality, which I think I wish we had an open internet. That's what I want. I don't know what net neutrality necessarily means. So it's not neutral.

So platforms are responsible for sex work happening on them. And this is recently the more frightening thing about it for in the short term is that it's empowered law enforcement to kind of go after all the websites that people post their sort of services ads on. Yeah, so basically what it would so what it would be right and cry me if I'm wrong is that a sex worker would be like, I'm going to post an ad on something like back page

or adult work and then someone else who's also a verified user of that site can like pay them sort of securely and it's a more sort of transparent transaction, right? Yes, and we already have laws against all of these things that are bad in sex work in the United States, including like what Julie Bindles like obsessed with, which is banning pimps or whatever. So this SESTA thing and FOSTA and they'll be combined

into something even more monstrous is supposedly combating sex trafficking, but what everybody knows because prostitution actually is decriminalized in a couple of countries more or less. They see that visibility is healthy for sex workers and the US is not the worst place to be a sex worker, but we have every problem with sex trafficking that the rest of the world has,

but we had open internet so that people could be found, you know? So like even people who have little profiles on Facebook are getting in trouble now. Really? Yeah, you know, in a Google Drive, all the kinds of things. What would it have been like sort of before a lot of these services came online, like before services like Backpage and stuff, where these forums where sex work could take place?

I mean, it's what everybody in the popular imagination thinks prostitution is. There's a street walker who is maybe advertising herself for sex publicly or something like a brothel, which they have legal brothels all over the world. So those are generally safe places to work compared to working on the street. And yet the word brothel is considered like basically

it's where we're implying violence against women. So it's like hard to even describe it without using words like that. So a lot of people say like shared workspaces. I mean, isn't that the same thing as the tech industry? So that's being criminalized. Broke, we work, woke, we fuck. That's nice. There's no one in Silicon Valley is fucking.

Does that answer your question? Yeah, it's good. It's sort of that sort of sets up like what the what a lot of these sort of online services are doing to make the world a little more safer for sex workers. Independent. From what I've read. Yeah, go ahead.

Independent. So like I'm, you know, a person who knows how to post my own ads. So I might, if I was, you know, doing that, I might make my own ad make my own website. Even that's banned now. So but then the yes, because if you went to like a court hearing where someone's getting in trouble for this, if they're younger, I'm considered just an anomaly,

just a normal person who's a sex worker, like it's not an anomaly, but in the, you know, persecution world, it's always like young people, people of color, trans people, single moms, people like that. And they can post for like a dollar or whatever, because just to verify they're real. An ad and then people can respond to them who there's like this website being taken down verify him where a person who wants

to have sex or services can, you know, like upload their ID and kind of just be verified like Twitter. And then, you know, they're real. And then they, they might even have a rating system, but they don't, that's a whole nother story. Those websites are also being taken down where punters rate escorts. So because there's a lot of business supposedly done on that, but no one's going to really miss those.

But they were helpful for people to share bad experiences. People can't, it's complete silencing. Yeah. It's worse than shadow banning. That's why I joke about being shadow banned because it's nothing, it's fine. I don't care. I hate Twitter.

I mean, we all hate Twitter, but you know, all agree on. Yeah. But we're trapped. I need to feel like I, you know, don't fit in. So I go on Twitter and then I feel better about myself. So something, something I feel is really important for verifying the users of sex workers is we need the pictures of Donald Trump's penis to be released.

Oh yeah. We can know. And having sort of established sort of basically more or less what this is, what's going on, one of the, one of the, one of the biggest voices that's sort of against decriminalization of sex work and the sort of the ways in which sort of women can engage in sex work is Julie Bindle, who is a favorite here. How yeah.

And she has written a reactionary opinion piece in the guardian of all places, which actually has quite a few reactionary opinion pieces in it. So Julie's article starts ask the question. What should we do about prostitution? Anywhere in the world and you increase, you are increasingly likely to get the answer legalize it. This view is based on the idea that there will always be men

who pay for sex and women who sell it is that is basically true. There will probably always be people who are like doing sex work because people want to fuck. Right. Seems to be the case. But Julie, Julie is very anti-decriminalization. And this is, this is, this is, this is interesting. She calls herself an abolitionist because what she wants to do

is abolish sex work entirely as a category. But if you actually sort of, if you read her position, then you'll, you'll find she says abolitionists do not consider prostitution to be about sex or sexual identity, but rather a one-sided exploitative exchange rooted in male power. However, I mean, a description of work. Yeah. That's exactly it.

Right. Is there just is their prop? It's like they are repeating all of the problems with work that I think any good Marxist would have, which is work itself is inherently exploitative and is inherently about power, which I like the thing is I'm anti-work in general, but one philosophy that you really practice what you preach is that one. But it doesn't seem right.

Like like Julie Bindle is just like it's just is maybe just has some weird hang ups about sex. But also the internal logic of I'm against sex work because I respect women and I'm going to screw over a bunch of women through this. Absolutely. That doesn't make any sense. I know what's best for these women.

Me, Julie Bindle. Yeah. So the it's a guardian column. When I do it, I'm being removed from the night. She's basically suggesting that when sex work is legalized, that creates sex businesses that then abuse sex workers. Okay. Wait, but decriminalization and legalization are two different

things. Sorry. Decriminalization. No, because weed is decriminalized in New York, but it's not legalized. Those are two completely different things. She's saying that like a lot, for example, allowing people to like advertise and sell sex legally create like in the Netherlands, where you can have brothels and stuff creates the conditions where

sex bosses exploit sex workers to make profits. Yeah. So Riley is my sex boss. So Cesta proves that, you know, unlike in good haircuts, Julie Bindle is very powerful and to the ears of law makers and law enforcement, you know, she's her weird hangups actually makes a difference in this world, which is frightening. She's, she seems scared of sex.

Yeah. I think that's, that is, it is real. It is really what it is. Right. Like it's like, of course, we should be aiming toward a kind of a world where no one has to work, right? Like that would be ideal. But the problem is, Julie, people have to work.

Not her. Her job is so easy. She shows up, eats brunch or whatever it just to a Kiwanis club. And then does a guardian call a nap or whatever. I mean, sex workers are the only reason she has her job because she has something to comment on. Yeah. You just, you quality control ice cream cones.

Now I'm going to put that in the not a job pile. That sounds like a great job. Sucking a dick seems like hard work, but I don't like the way it makes me feel. So I'm going to say no. Right. So it's the, it's that she says abolitionists reject the sanitizing description of sex worker and regard prostitution as a

form of violence in a neoliberal world in which human flesh has come to be viewed as a commodity like a burger. Yeah. The standard fucking commodity that we all think of the burger, the common burger. I didn't know someone who has that like brand, you know, like USDA grade A beef as a tattoo on her butt. Yo, that's sick though.

It's fucking awesome. Yeah. She was so great. And Julie Bindle, Julie Bindle wants to criminalize her. Yeah. She like, she would actually say she probably got that tattoo for a pimp or something, which that's not true. You actually get the pimp's name tattoo.

Julie Bindle knows nothing. Yeah. She's being pimped by the USDA. Are we all commodity pizza? Pizza gate goes deeper than we know. Well, that's that's what that's that's a real. I think that's there's something I want to kind of seize on in that in that sentence where she says that she says that she regards

prostitution as a form of violence as though there is something inherently violent about there is something. Look if they're sure there is something inherently exploitative about every everyone who works for someone else and every sort of market exchange, but she seems to regard the sex part of it as just especially icky. Okay. But who the fuck is she and why do we care what she thinks?

Just because she's an idiot with a guardian column. Yeah. She can get into the country clubs or whatever. I don't know. But and whining about it. She's on top because Ivanka Trump also shares these views because she thinks she's like pro women, but she's actually the trash future anti feminist.

Exactly. The official official trash future anti feminist Julie Bindle. We have merch. Hi. It's like this weird narrative that like sex is this like thing which exists outside of the realm of other things where like it certainly happened in certain circumstances and for like magical like fairy reasons.

But these are the people who hold this opinion are always people who like never actually have sex anyway. And I mean much like myself, but I like to think I know about sex at the very least. Yeah. So it's bizarre like, oh, you know, you can you can do things you enjoy and also receive money for those things. Like I don't like playing tennis or like making this horrible

podcast. But like it was soon as it gets down to like sex. No, it's like it's like you're it's that sex is between you and the hole in the bed sheet and God. And it's the. We what the thing like it here's the thing. The all of the reasons that that Bindle sites for why sex work should be bad are for example that.

That worker that that work that workers will come under the control of pimps. He's obsessed with this idea of pimps, but really I sort of and she says that then pimps like one into fifty cent. Yeah, she thinks it's all real. So she she is like she actually that's the thing she is this like like sort of older pearl clutching person who is still like really shocked about the parental advisory explicit content labels

on rap albums. Oh man, that didn't land Nate. Please take that Julie Julie Bindle like when I first heard about a pearl necklace. I was intrigued, but I was quickly horrified. No, so so but what she says she talks about how sort of pimps, which is obsessed with engage in an exploitative or often criminal behavior and she says in a world where prostitution is

criminalized or sex work is decriminalized, then then then then that behavior will become more rampant. I mean, it's obvious why that's a total logical non-starter, right? I mean, I don't know, right? I mean, we criminalize drugs and stop the drug dealers. So I mean, you know, we've got go with the evidence and it's safer than ever.

The drugs are purer than ever and less people are dying. All right, we've been recording for a per usual a while and I think it's time to go to the pub or for all going to go to the Soho Theatre, whatever it was until 1130. So I'm here for a while. Nice. We're going to chill. Okay, so I'm going to say canal cans pepper. Thank you very much for coming on and pepper.

It was very nice to meet you and I was a pleasure and talking talking to our listeners who still listen to our dumb show for some reason and thank you to Nate in these who's at in these deserts for being our producer and thanks also to Jin sang who is giving us our theme song or has allowed us to use our theme song. Here we go, which is found on Spotify. Listen to it early and often find us all on Twitter and on toffee. That's just me.

Good night, everybody.