TRASHFUTURE - Shelfology in the Time of Monsters: Season Six Begins

Episode Date: August 5, 2024

Note: this episode was recorded on August 1, prior to far-right attacks that took place across the UK at the weekend. Science has done it all: it’s created Woke Algeria to oppress the Italians, it��s created a Labour party that can only concede to the right no matter what the issue, and it’s created the purest expression of Hussein dropping in with a joke that obliterates the entire cast with absolutely no warning. This is both a grim and fun episode given the current state of British politics, and we are both inspired by scenes of solidarity and horrified by the general state of things.  If you want access to our Patreon bonus episodes, early releases of free episodes, and powerful Discord server, sign up here: https://www.patreon.com/trashfuture KJB LIVE ALERT Kill James Bond are doing three nights at Conway Hall in Central London on 9th, 10th, and 11th August, and there’s also livestream tickets available if you can’t make it! Details are available here: https://www.killjamesbond.com/live MILO ALERT  Milo’s special ‘Voicemail’ is premiering on YouTube on July 10th - check it out here: https://youtu.be/x4oTP3M6ppo Trashfuture are: Riley (@raaleh), Milo (@Milo_Edwards), Hussein (@HKesvani), Nate (@inthesedeserts), and November (@postoctobrist)

Hey, hey folks, have you seen this news about Crowd Strike? Apparently the crowd at Olympic Boxing went on strike because it lasted only 46 seconds! ALICE Yeah, I guess apart from anything else, imagine having, like, ringside tickets to that boxing match, and you just, you're in there for like a minute and a half, and then everyone goes insane about it. It's the one Olympic event you're able to get tickets to see, you're like, ah, I'm really going to like feel a part of the city. I'm going to go to the Olympics. You go there, a woman gets like hit too hard. Cause it costs. Yeah. It costs like, I think my, one of my friends wanted to go see an Olympic tennis match and they were like, yeah, it's 200 euros like per match. Right. So it's

not like, so you, you sort of pay for individual events. So if you've paid like 200 euros plus for like 46 seconds... It's such a high rate! I guess it depends on what context and what activity you're doing to decide whether those 46 seconds are worth it, but... I guess doing kind of like consumer protection, doing like watchdog shit, to be like, the Olympics, the amount of time you get to spend in your seat as they compete, they're doing their best to make it shorter every year, and they literally count and set records for how little

sport you are able to see by time for the amount that you're paying. The whole thing is a scam, it's rigged, and it's rigged against the interest of you, the consumer. I would argue that if you're in a combat sport, you and your participant, like your ambition is to probably make it last for as short as possible. Yeah. Because otherwise, otherwise they're hitting you, right? You don't want to be doing Rocky, like Rocky movies every time you're in the ring, right? You don't want to be doing 10 rounds.

What if they just like you only box every third one? I just think it's very funny. You know, you go, you go past like the 10 rings of steel they've put around all of Paris. You get like the full cavity search from a French cop. Yeah, you get the most aggressive, like you get shot by the gendarmes just for walking in. And you sit down.

You get like tasered because you have a Pepsi branded water bottle instead of a Coke one. You sit down and then immediately the boxing match starts and then the Italian lady leaves. It's like, I didn't know they'd be hitting first of all. To be fair. That's, that's quite relatable to me. Right. I think if you put me in the boxing, I would last also maybe less than one punch. And of course I would see the punch coming towards me. I'd be like, I quit, I quit, I quit. How do they get on the Olympic team? I don't know how it got here. Please don't put me in.

They never should have put me in. Well, cause of like woke DEI, they were like, we need to have one trans woman on team GB. So they just put me on boxing. The woke Stasi came and just made you be an Olympic boxer. And then none of the trans folks, none of the trans folks were complaining then, huh? I had a friend who like went to a private school and like in the private, in the school, like everyone had to sort of do a sport to like competitive standard. And obviously that opens up this question as to like, well, if you're bad at sports generally, like what are they sort of going to put you on?

You do what I did, which is fencing. Well, basically they did something like that, but I think he went on, I want to say darts, but I'm not entirely, but it was like one of those things. It was one of those things where it's just like, why on earth do you have to, but anyway, like he, we're going to say darts because I can't read it. Remember what else is so, but it turned out that he was actually like very good at this one game that was supposed to sort of be like a very, like, you know, you sort of put all the sort of losers there.

And they did send him to like national competitions and he brought back like trophies despite the fact that he never played this game just because like he ended up being very good at this one very specific game of which I'm going to call darts. All of which is to say that like sometimes DEI does work really well and that actually if anything like you know if we're looking if we're looking at performance like if we're looking at sort of like performance successes then actually we should be doing more DEI, right? That's my take. Randomly, randomly assign kids into sports and eventually see which ones of them like pop off, you know?

Yeah. I was, I was assigned boxer. What we're of course talking about this thing that now a bunch of labor MPs have jumped on Rosie Duffield and I think Anna Turley is just like that a cisgender woman, a cis gender woman is competing in an Olympic boxing match against another cis gender woman. And the first, and we were talking about this just moments ago before starting, is no one had male socialization, but the, the, the Italian boxer must've had white boy socialization because as soon as the fight started, she was like, yeah, I'm out of here. I can't you're lucky. My kids are here. If this was a fair fight, I definitely would have won. And now she's just

going to be lucky. It's like Olympic boxing because if this was a real fight, I would have had to like activate my secret special forces training and I would have straight up killed you. If I, if I was allowed to do the touch of death, then this totally would have gone the other way. Yeah, no, but I've been feeling completely fucking... I know, she only knows how to fight in the kumate. She's not able to fight in the Olympics.

I've never tested this, for all I know this is true. I only know how to fight when it's to the death. But yeah, no, I've been feeling completely insane about this all day, because the thing is, this woman, right, the IBA, the Russian-backed boxing association, disqualified of having two high testosterone levels years ago, the IOC, drawn to the Olympics, led her into this Olympics with all of their fascist-ass gender testing. But because she has short hair and a big nose and a square jaw, and is taller than her opponent, and because her opponent quit after getting hit once, every TERF has decided that this means that

this is a trans woman, which she isn't. You can always tell. Exactly, right. I mean, this is the thing, it worries me on a couple of levels, because, one, you see people who are sort of well-intentioned saying, no, no, no, she's not trans, so like, she's not, you know, all of the shit that you would have said about a trans woman, she's like, don't say that to her. But then that doesn't work anyway. Because none of this is rebuttable by evidence anymore, it's like a totally post-truth thing, right, where people have just decided in their heads, people who have never cared about the

Olympics or women's boxing or anything like this, that like, this is because of woke and this is a trans woman and she like went there to cheat and like almost killed a small Italian white boy. And it's just, I know from experience that you can't logically rebut people once they're into bigotry like this, but it's still jarring every time I see that. And I think this is going to be a recurring theme with some of the other stuff that we talk about now, where it's just like, people who aren't paying attention get told something false immediately internalize it, and then it's just in there forever. Well, one thing we're going to talk about later in the episode, might as well bring

this up now, is we're going to talk about what happened in Southport and then around the UK with these, call them what they are, race riots. Lyle Obviously it doesn't matter, because even when you say, now that the far right ecosystem, the right-wing media ecosystem has now absorbed, like, okay, now it's proven that this guy's not an asylum seeker, it's like, number one, doesn't matter if he is, some people are... It doesn't matter if he is. ALICE Yeah, because as we've said for years, asylum

seeker here is code for black or brown person, right? Which he is. And so that's enough. That's what they actually want to get at. It's the same thing we talked about with Patrick Wyman, right? About how these guys, they say they want one thing, actually what they want is the full Hitler, right? Well, this is the full Hitler happening here. It doesn't matter if he is or isn't, but even taking their logic, the fact that he's not an asylum seeker, so this doesn't justify a bunch of race riots against asylum seekers

specifically. He's not a Muslim either, but it doesn't stop people from throwing bricks at mosques, you know? Yeah, exactly. Because once all of that settles, the response on the far right news networks, I have been watching GB News and Talk TV and all this stuff in the aftermath of this event, because I like to damage my own brain. You should try boxing. The story now is, well, it doesn't matter that he wasn't any of those things. No one would have rioted if those concerns

about small boat crossings were actually addressed by anyone. Right. So it just it is so nimble at just internalizing these things. But I want to kick off the actual show. Welcome to the show, everybody. It's Riley, November and Hussein. And I think it's time, November and Hussein. And I think it's time for a new season of TF. Rate cuts are on the horizon across a lot of the major central banks. We can see Securonomics having really rooted itself in the policy making centers of the

North Atlantic world. Lyle We were right again. Season five, which was like, we gotta figure out what they're gonna do with the economy now. Solved. Completed it. We're now onto like, what are they gonna do about the culture? And that's, I think, based on our first two pieces of kind of like front matter, bad. ZACH Well yeah. We could also talk a little bit about other parts of the economy, like the final shocks of the Covid period and the war in Ukraine, like the abandonment of sort of

the final nail in the coffin of infinite frictionless global free trade network. Those are like, those shocks have been absorbed by the world we live in. Energy prices are down, rate of inflation is down, but the damage that these things have done is long lasting. Yeah, completely like hollowed out a bunch of really fragile supply chains and stuff. Well, and moreover, just the high price of debt killed a bunch... One of the things that killed Thames Water, right? Thames Water was turned into a house of cards by repeated securitizations of its business that would have kept working if rates had stayed low, right? And then, well, the rates go up and then it's like, okay, well, that's going to kill a bunch of

businesses. And so the problems Thames Water is experiencing, we're like attributable to that. So I think we're declaring a new season because the effects of these things having been absorbed into the political sphere and the economic sphere are now pretty clear. Yeah, shitting all the rivers. Yeah, and we're in the final throes as well of like business as usual and electoral politics on both sides of the Atlantic. As the Starmer government and the Kamala Harris campaign basically make the final pitch to voters for normalcy where normalcy doesn't mean goods, vision for survival or whatever. Normalcy

just means largely recognizable based on things that were coming before. And from what we can already see from Starmer, like what we're going to do is largely continue in ways that people have found untenable and will continue to push back again. So, Season 6, the time of monsters. Yaaaaay. There we go. And not even cool monsters. No Godzilla's, no fucking Jaegers, we're not building the fucking Jaegers, we're not building any Eva's or Gundams, like, we're just gonna have to

deal with the monsters. Wait, wait to see what Starmer announces next. This is basically the pitch, right, is let us keep doing it. Mom said it's still my turn on the controller. Everything has to, like, stay the same in terms of, like, the same 50 people being in charge of all of the politics, right? And our plan for the future is, this has to keep working independently of everyone's, like, cost of everyone's cost of

living or quality of life forever. And you can see the sort of far right challenge to that being mounted, and it's... as to whether there's a left challenge for that, that remains to be seen. RILEY Ask the five people from that Zoom call who are in jail. ALICE Yes. Yeah, if we're deploying the Jaeger against anybody, it's against Just Stop Oil, right? The Jaeger will be like, walking over and crushing Roger Hallam's prison cell.

But like, the far right meanwhile, it seems perfectly able to organize in the open these riots, where they're attacking riot police and shit. So, we're gonna get to that, but I to do one more little bit, one more bit of fun to kick off season six with in a little bit of, in a little bit of style, which is we haven't done it for a very, very long time. We have not talked about Neom. Ambassador with this Neom, you are spoiling us. There was a portentous roll of thunder behind me. I don't know if it's here on the recording. That was perfect. Bring me Neon. Yeah. It's cool. And I fly into Neon. But why is there this creepy organ music?

What I want to talk about about Neon is as you know, Saudi Arabia, in order to try to convince everyone Neon was real host as convinced, as basically said, we're going to host a bunch of events that will absolutely require there to be a city here with infrastructure by like the mid 2030s. So yeah, so the World Cup, we've talked about them hosting the World Cup before, one piece of information that's new to me is that it was mysterious that there were no other bidders for World Cup 2034. Just Saudi Arabia! ALICE Just in general, right, besides naked corruption,

there is this thing with big tournaments where, like, nobody wants to do them anyway, right? Because they're too expensive, and like we said, a lot of stuff got fucked by Covid and Ukraine and all the rest of it. But like, yeah, transparently this is, like, this has been rigged, right? It is funny that, as you say, we're getting to a kind of decision point, right, where NEOM is a thing that exists to kind of harvest money off the Saudis, right, or to generate PR for the Saudis, now has to either become something where you can actually go and watch at least one, like one football match, or nothing and they have to cancel it and it's

a huge embarrassment and climb down, right? And we've seen in Qatar that you can put together with enough slave labor a World Cup, sort of out of next to nothing, very quickly. So long as you don't mind the human rights violations and all the rest of it, which plainly the Saudis don't. But knowing NEOM for what it is, I have absolute faith that they will not be satisfied with the Qatari solution of, I just build it out of fucking shipping containers, I don't give a fuck if 50 people fall off the roof, and will instead do some insane architectural bullshit that has been pitched to them.

M- Would you like to hear some of the details? S- Desperately. M- There are only a few details that are available, however... S- They're gonna do it in the center of a big, like, gimbling sphere. They're gonna do it with, like, moon gravity. Please, tell me what kind of bullshit they have lined up for this. ALICE So, the pitch will be situated more than 350 meters above the ground.

NIGEL Yes! Yes! I cannot wait to see Harry Kane falling off the side of the pitch like an Ikea wardrobe. Like, still playing, just sort of lumbering like a wounded, aged, stupid gazelle over to the touchline. And just plummeting to a completely unheralded death landing on, like, a fucking cleaning robot or something. And it says, with a pitch situated more than 350 meters above ground, and a roof created from the city itself.

Just, fuck it, yeah, we've got Trent Alexander Arnold has gone out like Darth Maul. Perfect. It's just... It's like, when you, you know, like, those video games, like, those fighting games, where like, if you, like, punch someone hard enough, they would just fall off the... and you'd like have to start the round again. Like they would just fall off the face of the earth. Yeah, when we said like aerial football, right, this wasn't what we meant, right?

It's clearly been a translation error in what they've handed to MBS, right? I just, I like the idea of, yeah, we're doing it's, we've added soul caliber rules to the 2034 world cup. I imagine there's probably a lot of like footballs that just sort of get kicked off the pitch and you're just like, what? That was our only ball. Yeah. You're sort of like waiting for like half an hour for the ball to be returned. ALICE 99.99% of budget spent on 350 meter tall

football stadium, rest of the budget entirely on footballs. ZACH So, it's, um, fans will be able to travel around the area using a network of electric autonomous rapid transit vehicles. ALICE I mean, listen, thank god it's Saudi Arabia, right? Because it's a dry country. Can you imagine pissed England fans next to the Bossamless pit, which will presumably be also completely unfenced? Just having a higher attrition rate than the Battle of fucking Stalingrad.

Just a bunch of these,alingrad. Just a bunch of things it gets. Just on Stella. Just... When you know, when you look at, like, any concept art of Neom, there is never, ever a railing. Ever. No. No.

No, because that wouldn't... Much like Elon Musk designing the Gigafactory, right, having basic safety features interferes with the sort of clean vision that they want, you know. It'd be too woke. Yeah. Absolutely. Also that. Yeah. Yeah. I really want to hear MBS say the word woke at some point in English. Like,

it's only a matter of time, I feel. Maybe, maybe if he wastes too much money on Neom, he'll have to start doing expensive cameos. And then we can, we can do Nigel Farage, I believe is still doing cameos. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, we could have had him announce season six if we, you know, could have lived with ourselves giving him money. Please do not, if he is, please don't give him money on our behalf. I know it sounds like it'd be funny. Just don't pay him. He has, he has no dignity, so you're not going to embarrass him.

I regret to say it. This is a use case for AI, you know? This is the one, just the one. This appears to be what the plan is, but there's going... This is going to look so stupid in the little nub that they have left to actually build. So it's like there's going to be a big box with a stadium in the exact middle of it. That's in the Northwest Desert of Saudi Arabia with nothing else around it. This is going to be so fucking sustainable. Yeah. Yeah. People are going to love it. I guess, I guess like Gianni and Fontino was feeling Saudi that day, you know?

I think he might have been feeling, uh, five Ferraris. Mmm. God. What could I mean by that? Mmm. Impossible to say. I wanna talk a little bit about, of course, something we've been kind of delaying for a little while as we've been dealing with, like, thinking about JD Vance, if we've been talking about CrowdStrike, and so on and so on. Which is the fact that Rachel Reeves has come out and said... ALICE Oh wow. Congratulations to you.

RILEY Yeah. There is no money left. Oopsie daisy. ALICE Yeah, we found the special secret money ledgers that were inside government, that like, the Office of Budget Responsibility, or like the Bank of England, or we in opposition didn't have, the kind that international economists didn't have, the kind that only the government had in their back pocket that said, oh, everything's even more fucked, in a way that you didn't know about. There's two different spending issues, right? So just to set the table for everybody, and to remind American listeners, it appears to

be now a tradition when government changes hands from party to party to go out to the voters and say, the previous party has created conditions such that will leave public spending and investment in services completely impossible. Sorry. This is now the second time this has happened. And I assume it will just keep happening forever now. And so Rachel Reeves, all of those wonderful, paltry spending plans that the incoming Labour government had, those are now all being thrown into question because as you say, November, there was a secret budget of a bunch of... A budget black hole that was different from expected. It's like the history of the Mongols and the secret history of the Mongols.

There were some things, apparently, that legitimately they might not have known about, which is a different kind of spending, which leaves another multi-billion pound hole. But still, like the whole concept of the hole itself relies on the idea that, like, fiscal rules are akin to laws of physics. Like, this is why I get so annoyed with black, with the reference of a black hole. Right. Because a black hole is a singularity. It's a hyper object. wherever you want to call it.

It is very big. It's just kissed entering number 10 and being like I've entered the Swartshield radius. I'm being horribly distorted by moments of space time compressing. I've been spaghettified and turned into hawking radiation. I've been flattened into an enormous disk. I've become one with the accretion disk of the black hole. Where we're going. We won't need eyes to see.

You're a little bit su-dack. I don't, I don't listen. We have, we don't have the impressions guy. And what do you want? Impressionist is a way. What am I supposed to, what am I supposed to do? Some kind of like voice training? The Keir Starmer voice training. Yo, this has gone terribly.

Oh my God. I hired the same translator that MBS got when he said he wanted a football stadium in the sky. So what happens, the whole concept of a fiscal black hole we'll get to is fucking insane because it's like, the rule that we made about our own investment and spending decisions, that is akin to a law of physics. The rule we made about what we would invest and spend, that's just a choice. Anyone can change that. That doesn't matter who does that.

It's the same thing we saw with the CAS review, right? Which is that you get some kind of document or some kind of guidance and then you go, this is wholly writ, right? And we have to implement this because this is what responsible government is about. It doesn't matter how much of a shoddy piece of shit it is, it's enough justification for you to do whatever you want. So there are the two different kinds of spending we're talking about. There's the one kind where it's like, no, that was all available. You could have known that if you weren't lying. The other one is things that actually, I don't know, I was apparently like in year spending. So again, on stuff

like spending billions of pounds on Rwanda, or again, it's like, yeah, the performative cruelty is very expensive. Like spending billions, like a huge amount of money on the bibi Stockholm. ALICE It was very funny when we asked Rwanda, can we get a refund? And they said no. NIGEL Yeah. But you can exchange it for a very, for a similar type of item. We got store credit with Rwanda. Yeah. Paul Kagame has given us a £10 Amazon voucher. Any case, right? This is, the claims even that like Tory ministers spent hundreds of

millions of pounds. That's the figure. Hundreds of millions of pounds, on social media videos. ALICE Oh, you could really see the budget coming off them back in the day, if you remember. Like, Rishi Sunak's Zoom calls with Vosas, that was clearly a quintuple-A project. ZACH Yeah, they got the Russo brothers to direct the Matt Hancock parkour video. It looks like she's just shooting laser beams out, there's no real plot to it. It has that grey look.

Regardless, right? This is, whether or not, like, how much of this fiscal black hole, quote unquote, is real, how much of it was actually foreseen, how much of it actually wasn't foreseen, is pretty immaterial, because the immovable object that you're running up against is a very movable object that was put there by you. You're just choosing to not move it. Yeah, I mean, like, this is not that there are no constraints on debt or public spending, right, but like, the government has a lot of latitude to do those, it just has to do

them in a way that isn't Liz Truss insane. Yep, and we can talk about the role of the Bank of England, we can talk about what the money is actually going to be spent on, We can talk about what do investors want, what do bodies like the IMF want. And what we've seen over and over again in season 5% is a sort of broad consensus by most, like a lot of investors, a lot of like, it's not like woke socialist blue-haired bond traders, like the IMF being like, Hey, please invest anything. Please just invest. Why will you not invest? We are desperate for you to invest. Oh, the IMF has gone woke.

Yeah. They also went woke. The, uh, the, the, the IMF allows, uh, anybody to compete in women's accounting. So we're going to talk to all of that as we go on. Um, so Reeves is say, okay, we're going to have the means have to means test the sort of £300 that pensioners get to help with heating costs. Yeah, we're gonna kill your nan. Like, COVID, you know, the sort of pandemic phase is over, we're in the endemic phase, and we're really jonesing for that killing your nan high again, you know? Well look, there's gonna be, there's like a demographic crisis, and so they've sort

of calculated that the best solution is actually kill more old people. Yeah, well you don't have to pay the pensions. Because you don't have to pay them pensions and you don't have to pay for care. Eating into like Tory majorities as well. Yeah, well, also like, remember the 40 hospitals? No. Remember the famous 40 hospitals? No, I don't.

Oh, you don't? No, this is the thing. That's good. Yeah, I kind of learned, I was trained not to pay attention to like labor's pledges for government because they kind of dropped as quickly as they brought them in. So this was, as you recall, a Tory pledge that was kept by labor. And by what I say, a Tory pledge that was kept by labor, it was something that everyone agrees it would be

good to say to do, but obviously never do. Obviously. We're never... And again, they scope us back to, oh, 40 hospitals, 40 hospitals. If you listen back to like episodes in 2022 when you're first talking about this shit, the 40 hospitals was always a lie. Always. Yeah, it's like, it's like, we're gonna like replace the shitty concrete roof on this hospital in such a way that it's a new hospital. This porter cabin is going to be designated a hospital. That's right. In fact, we've designated every gym a hospital now. This isn't even a joke, like for people who aren't from the UK, my wife's like maternity, like we've had free maternity sessions, which is like what you get when you are pregnant, right?

But just like scans and stuff. Two of those scans took place in a Porter Cabin. I'm not even joking. It took place in a porter cabin. It was insane. Like, the same buildings that, like, we went to school... Well, at least I went to school then. But, um, yeah. No, that, like, that's not a joke. If you want a sort of snapshot of the hold that porter cabins have on British society, I, uh, if this wasn't obvious, went to, like, a private school, also had some of my school in a porter cabin.

So, I think... That's nuts! I think the country may just be a project of big porter cabin. If you want to get rich in a Gold Rush, sell picks and shovels, if you want to get rich in a recession, buy shares in porter cabins. So, Wes Streeding told MPs this week it was quote, painfully clear that the program of building new hospitals was not deliverableable as resources are sucked into fixing existing hospitals made from crumbling concrete. Quote, I want to see the new hospital program completed.

I really do. But I'm not prepared to offer people false hope, but how soon they'll benefit from the facilities they deserve. So again, kicking the promise you've made to finally build some hospitals for people, which is like a huge concern among actual voters, and being like, well, maybe we'll do it in the next government. ALICE If you're lucky. You know, make sure to vote for us again. You wouldn't go and do something silly like vote for Nigel Farage, would you? RILEY You wouldn't vote for Nigel Farage, who is

offering you something real. What he's offering you is not materially real. What he's offering you is like the is the sort of visceral satisfaction of seeing people that you like despise and fear punished by the state. That's what he's offering you. And and labor is saying, hey, you know what? That is a better offer. I'd take it. I'd take it if I were you.

But we're not going to give you anything. So, you know, go with him. But we mentioned not going to give you anything. So go with him. But we mentioned means testing winter fuel payments. What that will actually do, if you de-universalize a program, you basically make life havoc for everybody who's on just the other threshold of the program because they were still depending on it. Your thresholds aren't perfect. And so it means if you're not on like pension credit, universal credit, job seekers allowance, or all these things, you won't continue to receive a winter fuel payment. And already we know, like one of the things that now happen, one of the things that's now commonplace

in the UK is that more people have to like choose between heating and eating. That's the line that comes out again and again and again. How many more people is this going to force to choose between heating and eating? Really? At least some. Yeah. And you know, they say, oh yeah, well, we're going to force to choose between heating and eating? Really? At least some. Yeah. And you know, they say, oh yeah, well, we're going to do this now. However, we're going to tackle high levels of welfare fraud. When have I heard that before? When? Cause that's free money. That's the only free money that's cracking down on a group of people

who people want crack down on. And you can always theoretically get the benefits bill to zero if you tighten the rules hard enough. right? But like, with hospitals, right? The NHS, like, England is now saying, look, patient safety is now being put at risk, right? ALICE I mean, didn't stop them with any of the trans stuff, did it? Um, but yeah, no, obviously. I mean, you have GPs about to functionally go on strike as well, if you want an indication of how bad a crisis is getting...

The winter is gonna fucking suck. As it always has for the NHS since 2008, right? But every year is the worst year yet, every winter is the worst winter yet, and yeah. You know? We've been asking, broadly speaking, right? Fund the NHS, build new hospitals. That's like 80% of people in the country want that. But government is the exclusive domain of people who will promise to build the hospitals

and then not do it. And it doesn't matter how many institutions- Pales in comparison to my strategy, saying I'm going to build a hospital and then not building the hospital. At least you're consistent. No one can fault you for that. They don't want hospitals. They only want to endlessly critique hospitals.

The core issue, right, is that now the Treasury, as it has always done, is saying to departments, not just health, but every department, absorb a huge amount of inflation and also increase to fund big public, at least part fund big public sector pay rises, but we're not going to fund that from much new money. Some of it will be coming from new money, a bunch of it's going to have to come from quote unquote efficiencies. And again, like, yeah, big public sector pay awards, fine. That's good. That should be happening, but also the rest of it should be happening. And

yeah, I think one of the things we talked about about Securonomics is that Securonomics loves picking insiders and outsiders when it comes to managing the welfare state. Because the point... What you're really doing, what the Labor Party is doing is they're saying, okay, how can we make the state work for capital? How can we make this a predictable place to invest? How can we create the conditions for investment to occur? And part of that requires getting large chunks of people onside. But also, if you're mostly there to like... If you have to do that well reigning in public spending, you pick your winner. So well-organized public sector workers,

those are winners. Poor pensioners who can't heat their homes, those are losers. So we're going to... There's going to be an increasing, I think, demarcation of people... Of everybody who lives here into people who are insiders, who get state support, and who get comfortable lives. And again, a growing population of outsiders who get nothing. But the other thing we talked about as well is that Reeves is basically the treasury's woman in politics. She is the avatar of the treasury that has governed Britain basically since Nigel Lawson. And she is able to amend the debt rule to facilitate more investment. She can do that.

Even institutions like the OBR, they're like, yeah, this will cause growth in the medium term even. Yeah, well this is the thing. They're engaging in a very old economic strategy, which is, in order to stimulate growth, you don't invest. And this very famously works. I just, apart from everything else, right? We're not going to need to build any wind farms or anything like that, because we're able to power the entire country by sticking a couple of wires into John Maynard Keynes' fucking grave, the amount of rotation he's doing down there.

And, you know, we can talk about like what they want to invest in, right? Cause they go, well, we can't make unfunded commitments. We can't change the debt rule. Because look what happened when Liz Truss did it. When we talk about what it gets invested in, right? Cause they go, well, we can't make unfunded commitments. We can't change the debt rule because look what happened when Liz Trust did it. When we talk about what it gets invested in, right? That's also important. What Labour is saying is, oh, we can't break the fiscal rule because Liz Trust broke the fiscal rule and then she like, you know, dynamited the economy. Yeah. It's like, you can't, you can't break the speed limit, right? I... Yeah, you can't do stuff.

I can't go like 35 in a 30 driving my like heavily pregnant wife to hospital, right? Because someone previously drove a Ferrari at 120 down this same road, spun out and crashed the thing, you know? Okay, but that is actually my logic, like, um, well, if you do stuff and things happen and we can't let things happen and so we should not do stuff. It's just, what a depressing sort of foreshortening of the horizons of the British government to be like, well we can't do anything because the last time we tried was Liz Trust and look where that got us, you know?

SONIA But also, if like, we do stuff and it works, you'll expect us to do more things, right? ALICE Also true. SONIA Because it's like, I think about this in terms of, well, Covid sort of showed how those rules were fake because like, yeah, you could actually build a hospital, right? And you could like use the state to like provide emergency services. And like, you know, that period of time where I think there was like a sense of elation in part because it was like, oh, like you can actually do stuff to make people's lives slightly better. And then in a few months it was like, oh, well, we're not going to

do this anymore. And like, for no reason of like, it wasn't the case of like, oh, it's not working or it's like inefficient or like, you know, it's running up too much. It was, it was a political decision to be like, we're just not doing this anymore because it requires us to do things. But also if you, if this works, then like what's to stop other people sort of saying further down the line, but like you should do other things. Can I, can I be honest about something? Just on a purely emotional nostalgic level, I miss getting vaccinated. Like, I think, there's a couple of reasons for this economically and medically, but I should be able to get my like, 16th booster in a church hall now.

You know, I'm about to, I'm missing it. I'm about to start going and getting vaccinated for shit that I'm not even likely to get, you know? Yeah, well look, you never know when you might get red tide poisoning. Exactly! You know, sometimes you just need to like, pay to get a, like a dang fever vaccination or something. I think what you might be talking about is a sort of massive mobilization of state capacity

to deliver something basically good. Yeah, dang fever. Yeah, yeah. I'm so fucking proud of that one. I'm like shadow boxing. I'm that was incredible. The shadow boxing getting hit in the face. Oh, this like male socialized, uh, box. What, what, what, what wins male socialization or white boy socialization? No, I don't. I want to go back to it. Right. Because the,

like the, the rule that debt has to be, your debt has to be falling or that you can't spend more. You can't basically, that you can't borrow too much wherever it's set as a percentage of what you're making. We've, we talk about this over and over again, right? But you can just change it. And the difference between changing a, from the perspective of like the office of budget responsibility, I don't mean from the perspective of like, I don't know, like a sort of like a lefty, like a progressive think tank. I mean from the perspective of the OBR, the IMF. They see a difference between borrowing to invest and basically borrowing to cut taxes. Right? There's a difference!

LARSON Yeah, because we know that one of them grows the economy and the other one doesn't. It just sounds like it should. ZACH Yeah, what we're talking about really is just a great flattening. It doesn't matter what Liz Trust did. What Liz Trust did was something, and we can't do something. That's essentially what it boils down to. And even then, the Bank of England as well, the Bank of England being quote unquote apolitical, but deciding quote, unquote, apolitically, that it has to wind down a lot of the bonds it purchased over the last several years, selling them on the open market. That makes it harder for the country to issue debt because it's issuing debt while a bunch of secondary

selling is going on, meaning the interest rate would presumably have to be higher. So the Bank of England is also actually involved in actually political. It's just doing so under the guise of technocratic management because all of these everything from the 2% inflation target, all of it, it is all profoundly political. And it's, and it is those things, those apoliticals like guardrails are the things that are stopping the fucking hospitals from being built. God damn. Maybe we should maybe build some hospitals. I mean, if nothing else, where else am I gonna get vaccinated for all this shit? I wanna talk about one, two other things, right? Which is, like, how Reeves sold this

all is she said, she accused Jeremy Hunt of presiding over a cover up of the dire state of public finances. If we can't afford it, we cannot do it. People up and down the country understand that. When household budgets are- Household finance bullshit. No, November, listen to this, listen to this. She says, when household budgets are stretched, families have to make difficult choices. Government is the same. It's not, it's not... Listen, I'm not one of these people who's just like, you can just turn the big money printing dial up to like lots, right? With no repercussions. I know

that we exist within an international financial system, has, as you say, guardrails, right? But when the people who are sort of administering those guardrails are telling you, hey, you're too far out of the lane, you could come over a bit closer to this fucking guardrail, maybe we should do that instead of peddling this insane discredited bullshit about how if you only have 20p and chain, no, you can't get a Freddo no matter how good you've been or whatever. It's just, it's not anything like government. It's just, it's playacting. Luke- Well it's also not true in the sense that like, the thing that we sort of learned from the austerity was that like, you know, and this sort of narrative about the household budget

is that when household budgets can't afford basic things, they don't like stop eating, they, you know, they borrow lots of money and get a lot of debt to buy basic stuff. Right. We could try like nationally shoplifting. We tried like stealing hospitals from like Germany when they're not looking. Yeah. But like the most serious thing being like, well, we have like endless stories of people who are just like, well, I couldn't afford to do anything. And it sort of like got to my mental health so much that I tried to commit suicide, right? Or like I tried to harm myself or, you know, there's really kind of horrible

stories or like to go to like an example that we talked about earlier in the episode, like I couldn't afford to put my heating on during winter. And so I didn't put my heating on while my, my Nan didn't turn the heating on and she's dead or like, she's kind of like sick in a way, but like just, she has not recovered from since. Like the household budget thing is sort of a false narrative in so many ways, but there is also ample evidence to sort of show that like, well, when people are stretched like that, they don't make these simple like decisions to swap out like Heinz beans for the Asda equivalent. It's like, no, they go without stuff that is necessary for survival. And

that affects your growth plan. That like, my, my dead nan is not starting a new small business. Well, even if you'd want to, even if you choose not to think in like empathetic humanistic terms, right? Then like think about it on the basis of, you know, what you are animated by, which is everyone working until like their bones are crushed. But it's like in order to do that, they do need to be able to move. Moreover, right? Anyone who says this is sort of to your point, you're saying anyone who says, well, the government is like a household, it's like the big households that all the other households live in, right?

Where does money come from? If someone thinks that, where does the money come from? ALICE Well, it's like if you've had a job, kind of? RILEY So is the government the employer, or the household, or is everything a household? How come households are households? Governments are households. Companies, not households. It really is the black hole. All of these concepts are being completely stretched and

twisted and compressed into each other. The economy is a polycule. Yeah. And one of us has to get a fucking job. Yeah. That's the other thing, right? She says, oh, Britain's broken, broken. The stories lied to us and with all the there are many many columnists now so the labor insiders and labor fans who are like oh this is very canny by Reeves she likely knew about the budget black hole made the promises to get elected and it was able to come in and

actually say the Tories made it that they couldn't deliver their promises which means people will blame the Tories when labor can't deliver its promises it's like no that is loser. You are being a fucking loser by saying, Oh, they were unfair to, I didn't know there'd be hitting in government. Italian boxer, Rachel Raves. I didn't know there'd be hitting. They were unfair and they've lasted 46 fucking seconds before turning to the public and being like, I quit. I'm out. Oh, I hate it. Oh, I hate it. Oh, I hate governing.

Oh, I hate it so much. I quit. That's it! You're a loser! And people are gonna remember you as a loser! As whining! That the Tories were, what, unfair to you, they lied to you, and now we're all in this together because you got fucking tricked?

ALICE It's fine. Just so long as they keep voting for the Labour Party forever, you know? ZACH Hey, let's just, I think this is a pretty smooth transition into talking about the events in Southport, speaking of things that will animate people politically, now that everybody at the top has agreed that nothing ever happens. So this is something we alluded to at the beginning of the episode, right? Which is that in Southport, in the north, a teenager, a teenager who was born in Britain, attacked a Taylor Swift themed dance class at a property, and killed three girls under

the age of ten. And the police were unable to find a terrorist motive in this, but I always think it's like a fool's game speculating on this stuff, but you could at least call it a femicide, right? Like, specifically trying to kill, like, girls, right? Yeah. Yeah, of course. Nothing is known about the motive, except it's not like... The guy's not from fucking ISIS, and the story that we're really talking about isn't what did he do and why, but rather how this one event was picked up by Nigel, like literally Nigel Farage. Actually Nigel Farage. Not like Nigel Farage types, but the

MP, who by the way still has a news show. It's cool how that's allowed. You're allowed to do that. I mean, it's nice to know if I ever got elected, I wouldn't have to give up this job. Yeah, that's right. Nigel Farage doesn't hold back on his primetime news show. I'm sure he fucking doesn't. The MP with the news channel. Anyway, after this he goes on GBNews and he says, hey, just asking some questions here. I wonder whether the truth is being held from us. I don't know, when police brand attacks are not terror related, if the truth is being

withheld from us. I don't know when police brand attacks not terror related, if the truth is being withheld from us. Just doing a kind of like a bit of Trump innuendo, you know, the folks should I say it, oh they don't want me to say it thing. Yeah, and then to then be, you know, have that pointed out by other people, and then say well, and then defending himself by saying, well it started off the week before in Kent when a lieutenant colonel in full military uniform is stabbed in the street, and I was told that Kent police wanted to play the incident down. I got that on the highest level. So I think it's quite legitimate to ask questions as to what the hell is going on." Lyle So, someone from Kent police has called up Nigel Farage and has been like, please

do not start race riots over this. To which his response is, this is useful ammunition to help me start a race riot. Indeed. That's of course what he may have been thinking, we don't know. It's a fictional character who happens to share the name of Nigel Farage, but none of his characteristics. Indeed. Number one, he's very tall. And then of course we had Southend at the same time with machete gangs fighting in our streets. I think it's perfectly reasonable to ask very loudly and at the pitch of this dog whistle, what is happening to law and order in our country? Who are the perpetrators? And you can ask that attached to a brick directly through the window of the nearest mosque,

you know? Precisely. So after this happens, right? And again, this is people like Tommy Robinson getting involved as well. Darren Grimes getting involved as well. A large group of people- Lee Anderson, predictably. Yeah, of course. The same people who stock and trade is to say, is to say stop the boat, stop the boat, stop the boats, and to force Rishi Sudhak or Keir Starmer to say, we will stop the boats, we will stop the boats. And to then, when anything happens, say, ah, they didn't stop the boats, then cause a gigantic, like, you know, riot of white nationalists.

And as ever, it's like completely resistant to truth, right? You can't be like, well, this motherfucker was never on a boat because he was born here. It doesn't matter because that's not what they mean, right? And even if it was a white English guy, it would, they would still be like, well, there's still too much disorder and it's because of the boat. Stop the boat, stop the boat, stop the boat. When it's a white English guy it's barely anything. Do you remember the guy who like murdered three women at the crossbow a couple of weeks

ago? That didn't become a focus of like, oh we've lost control of our streets or whatever, despite that also being a kind of glaring example of violent misogyny. So basically, now, Merseyside police have said a large group of people, quote, believed to be supporters of the English Defence League have been gathering outside a mosque in Southport, and through bottles and other projectiles at police, setting fire to cars... Yeah, bear in mind, these were the same people who last week were like, oh, the police should be able to stamp on the back of your head for no reason, and anyone who fights with

the police is kind of like, forfeiting their life, right? Well, I mean, again, we talked about this earlier, right? Which is insider, insiderism, outsiderism, is the clear desire on the part of, like, the reform constituency, let's say, let's call it that, is for the police to defend what they see as their, like, racial interests. Yeah. And this jibes very well with the thing that the police already do, right? Which is the kind of structural racism of what might well be a good tactical decision

in that moment to not escalate against the riot, and just have a bunch of cops with riot shields get shoved against and get bricks thrown at them and not do anything. It's always curious when that happens. You never notice that on anything left, or anything that isn't comprised of angry white dudes. Yeah, again, we point to the fact that the people who were involved in planning the Just Stop Oil action are in jail for being on a Zoom call, and the people who were, again, I'm not saying incited, very clearly not saying incited, but the people who are involved in whipping up a panic about migrants that makes this stuff more likely to happen, still have TV shows. ALICE Yes.

Yeah, absolutely. And this is the thing, right, I know Starman has just announced that there's gonna be some more facial recognition and some more intelligence sharing about this. But when you consider that, you know, it's the thing that I always come back to, right? I hate it when the authoritarian state defends itself against the left, but I love it when it defends itself against the right, right? And you want to see the baton charges and grenade launchers and shit, and you don't. Right?

And you would think that this would be the moment, if ever there was one, for the former director of public prosecutions, Mr. 24 Hour Courts during the London riots, to emphasize the things which the far right don't care about and which he professes to, namely like order and respect for authority. You would think that this would be the moment to come down hard on this stuff, and, you know, we'll have to wait and see, I guess, but so far the response has been pissiful. Also, it's important to note that it's like, intelligence sharing, wider deployment of facial recognition technology, preventative action are all being used, and it's like, what are they gonna do, have more cops in the far right groups? Like, yeah, you could do spy cops on

the English... Recreationally? Yeah, you could do spy cops on recreationally. You could do spy cops on the English defense league. It will be a, it'd be a lot quicker commute, right? It'd be, that'd be a way easier infiltration. They're already there. But yeah. Hey, what next time you're at the EDL meeting, can you just do a little bit of intelligence gathering? I know you're going already, but you know, this, the, the promise is, you know, I think that this is the prime minister, this is the Prime Minister saying this, after the riots happened in Hartlepool, they happened in London, I believe there was more in Manchester today.

Yeah, all to shot as well, they're setting up for a big rally in Glasgow in September, which is going to be a fun time. And also like this coming weekend, I mean I don't know what it will be like, but this coming weekend they're like plans on continuing doing bigger ones like across various cities. So like they've sort of coalesced into like a new-ish movement, which again is very much like an attempt to sort of like unite the right arm. And it predated the Southport stabbings as well. Like one of the things that was not well reported at the time, because no one cares about trans people, was Trans Pride

in London happened the same day as the Tommy Robinson march. A bunch of them attacked one of Trans Pride's stewards, and the police were trying to keep them both apart with mostly success. And yeah, this is transparently exploitative. You can see lots of photos of guys turning up to ostensibly a vigil for murdered little girls with cans of Stella and cider. Yeah, bags of cocaine. Yeah, exactly. Because they don't care, what they want to do is have a fight with the cops, right? Or even if they do find themselves like, animated by violence against children, it's a very

common thing to be like, the thing that animates you is the thing that allows you to execute, that gives you the moral justification to sort of visit violence upon someone else. It's the standard thing of, oh, if you let me alone in a room with a pedophile, a hammer and nails, I do, you know, all sorts of unspeakable shit. It's like you, I build a shelf with them in a way that would distract them from doing pedophilia. They would never get focused again building the CIA cancer gun to give pedophiles ADHD. So they're too distracted to molest anyone. Being in a room with a pedophile with a hammer nails and a bit of wood, but like you're showing

him how to build a really good shell. Yeah. You get distracted. You get distracted because you love doing woodwork. The plan to crack down on this is very clearly, again, Starmer is saying this is going to be used on everyone. Extremist troublemakers from all parts of the ideological spectrum. Yeah, the far left, the medium left, the centre left. I mean, we talked about all the facial recognition stuff with Becca pretty recently, right? And this is the big new card that's being played, is we're going to do much more facial recognition.

And it's not like these guys are hard to gather intelligence on, it's not like most of them don't have criminal records already for like 40 counts of fucking Afray and domestic violence, right? Well it's also like, so many of them livestream themselves doing crimes. Like if you like, I was looking through some of the photos and stuff, and it's like, yeah they're all filming stuff. Like these are people who, they're not hiding their faces. It's the impunity, right, and that's the thing that you have to change. And that's a decision

that you have to make from the top. And unfortunately, it looks like governing, you know? It looks like... And governing, one of the things about governing is that you have to piss some people off. You're not able to just say, well, no violence will be tolerated. So you have to say, this is the violence that will not be tolerated. You can't like, keep equivocating between these people and like, just stop oil, which is the heavy implication in what Keir Starmer is saying. Yeah, and it has to be, because he can't engage them on the sort of substance of what they actually claim to think, because he spent the last few months of the election trying to look and sound as much like them as possible. Once you've stood in front of a big fucking Union Jack, with like, securing Britain's future and border security and controls on immigration on it, you can't then say, oh

well wait a second, these people are obviously Nazis. You can't be like, wait, I didn't mean that! Yeah, all you have left is like, the kind of, the Stammerist thing of order and respect, right? And sort of like, mindless thuggery. Yeah, I suppose the other aspect of this too is that it's also sort of on the subject of governance, and just like the fact that these marches and these protests are largely being, though not wholly, but very much the centrepiece of it is rampant Islamophobia.

Or there's lots of other offshoots, of course, lots of other conspiratorial offshoots. But the thing that animates most of these people, if you listen to them and if you watch these bizarre videos that they make, is Islamophobia. The issue is, part of governing is defining the number one, defining what Islamophobia is, accepting it, and also then developing policy around curtailing it. One of the things that the Labour, the previous government wasn't willing to do and hasn't done is issue its definition on Islamophobia. Its recommendations from the human rights commission thing. That's what it's called. Um, was one that was like incredibly like

lackluster. And it was one which like was very much about, um, you know, sort of under the guise of free speech being ultimately saying that Islamophobia isn't really real. That's kind of what it said. And the Labour Party haven't really made any positions or any sort of attempts to change that. And there are still no clear plans about whether they're planning on doing it. In fact, they're sort of having issues right now. And again, one of the big stories about the election was the fact of how many Muslim voters they lost, but also how they just didn't care about it. Shaking off the fleas.

Exactly. And so it's quite, and even now you have former MPs like John Ashworth showing up on every podcast. And he's here tonight. Oh shit, we forgot to introduce our guest. No, no. He was supposed to come on, but there was a clash. So he's actually on Call it Daddy today and he's coming on next week.

Jonathan Ashworth and the Hawk to a Girl are both on Call Her Daddy. So you have a coalescence of all these things where the Labour Party kind of just assume that they would never have to deal with this problem. And also a broader thing of, well, you've got right-wing media who also have been animated by Islamophobia for the most part. That is the thing that has been able to unify them. That is also like the take that they have sort of been willing to tell, like they have been channeling in the aftermath of these protests, despite the, despite like the fact that there was no link to like Muslims or Muslim communities or anything. Like the, the, the narrative had already been decided the moment that someone like went on Google maps and found that like, there was a mosque about 20 minutes away from the school. And they were

just like, yep, there's a connection and that's it. And there was like no changing that. And then like, I think the third thing is also, you know, you just sort of have people who have, whose brains have been fully cooked by the computer, right? And like, you know, no amount of sort of like mainstream media, like fact checking, no amount of misinformation, like analysis, no amount of trying to prove to these people that the way that you see the world is entirely built on these fictions. There is no way of deescalating that. And with your talk TVs and your GB News, I think they recognize that. And so what they're trying to do is very much play into it. They

have guests on who are sort of... I was, I was, I was also watching like some of the GB news stuff and one of the kinds of people they had on to talk about these riots was someone who was filming the riot. It was just like, you know, they kind of called him like a local, like, you know, journalist or whatever. It's like, no, this guy came out of town to go participate in these riots and film. They got a fucking Twitch streamer. Basically. Basically. Yeah. And so it's sort of like, well, you're dealing with a media ecosystem and no one really knows how to prepare for. Most people are in denial about, but also

like to interrogate what's actually going on and what animates the far right and what actually unites them. You have to sort of also recognize for like, no, like the Islamophobia problem in the UK is this endemic problem and one that basically encourages every part of society. Until you recognise that, you're not going to meaningfully solve the problem, which is why we end up in a situation where you have Kirsten Amma's solution being, well, we're going to increase and expand the surveillance state. It all leads up to eventually everyone's getting an ID card. My feeling is that it eventually will end up in some form of ID cards. And that will still not be enough. The thing is

like, you're going to like, you know, you're going to, you know, you're going to say that every fucking refugee or every sort of immigrant like who came in and so and so has to carry like these extra bits of digital identification. And if they don't carry one of these bits, like they're getting deported, you could sort of implement that policy and it will still not be enough for these people. Well, none of it would be enough because ultimately the whole point about the like, whether it's the racial utopia, whether it's a libertarian utopia is that none of it's, none of it's real, none of it can be delivered. It serves as an impulse that could never be satisfied, but that it's always useful to satisfy a little bit of for elites. It is an elite ideology, it's useful to them, and they all think, oh, we

can ride this wave, we can control it. And like the reform and its people and the sort of its associated media outriders are just the newest group of people who are like, yeah, all we're going to do is go further than the others. We can control this thing, we actually agree with enough of it. And you're never going to get, like, for instance, a definition of Islamophobia out of the British media or the British political system, because that was like, something that they played a huge part in whipping up in the first place. You know, like, if you're going back to New Labour, right, some of the shit that, like,

Blair and Blair's ministers said about Muslims, would absolutely not look out of place on one of these riots, right? No, absolutely not. Ultimately, the moment that crystallizes much of this for me is that outside of Downing Street, one party, followed by another, said, we will stop the boats. And then it was descended upon periodically by crowds of coked up drunk rioters who are demanding that they stop the boats. It's just a bunch of people saying, stop the boats to one another in increasingly high Duggen. They're saying blow them up. Cause again, it's like, this is not, this never going to

be enough. And like, it's very clear in like both in terms of what these people say very publicly is like, no, they're sort of paying for blood, right? They're sort of like, they want to see violence and they want to see- It's the Wyman thing again. They want the Hitler, you know? It's not that they don't know what they want or that what they want is some endlessly regressing horizon, right? It's going to regress until it gets to the point of the fucking camps, you know? And I'm sure that you'll have some GB News, Broad and Talk TV presenters who will pretend that they take the high ground out once enough

people have been injured or killed. But the point being that the new media ecosystem that these people are plugged into and whose brain, and their brains are being cooked as a result of being plugged into it for so long, they're completely disregarding that. Mason- And so you then, for media people who have trafficked in Islamophobia for a long time, but have been able to lead and control the narrative, now have to confront a situation where they no longer are able to control. The Daily Mail put out, they sort of post their, what you call it, their front pages in the mornings. So they put one out, which was just like, um, you know, it was some bullshit, but it

was like, you know, Russian site kind of like insights, the riots that like lead to like mosque bricking or whatever. It was secret operation to make British people racist cost precisely fuck all took zero minutes. This isn't about, I don't want to talk about like the Russian stuff because obviously that's bullshit, but one of the interesting things about reading the comments under that was like, Oh, the Daily Mail has gone woke. I see. Or the Daily Mail has like been taken over by Islamists and stuff like that. That'd be very funny if it was true.

Which is a very funny idea, but it's all just like, big play. It's got a black border on the front page for dying. But it, but it's like, it's, it's, it's a very, yeah yeah, like, you know what, just to sidetrack once again, you know, they should sort of do like Islamic geometry, like covers on newspapers once they take them over. That's true. It would be really nice. That'd actually be really beautiful.

The time that the Daily Mail published, like, R.I.P. Ismail Hanyir. Comments underneath that, that are like, you know, just show, I think like how cooked a lot of like, or how sort of far this has been able to be like entrenched, but like no amount of sort of even sort of moderation, no amount of like, Oh, maybe we should like dial it in a bit, dial it in a bit, you know, otherwise we're going to get into real trouble. That's not going to be effective. And so these people are going to have to make a decision as to whether like they want to sort of decision as to whether they want to be seen as or considered to be respectable and try to continue to reign in the consequences of their own action. And I imagine this actually might be the case for some of these outlets.

Call for the blood. Call for the executions. Call for the camps. Call for vengeance. And you know what? The publications on the right, the ones that choose the former strategy are going to go the way of never Trump Republicans and like one nation Tories. You are now useless because anyone who thinks that is already reading the fucking Guardian at this point.

Right. There is no there's no constituency on the right for that anymore because the point is right wing politics is always moving. It's it's a moving target that's going to the right. And if you think I'm gonna just ride this wave forever because this wave is going to be stationary and it won't carry me to somewhere that offends my sensibilities, if not my sense of ethics, then I will be fine. But guess what?

It moves. It moves because the point of right-wing broadcasting, point of right-wing broadcasting, the point of right-wing print media, the point of all of this stuff is getting people more angry and enervated at the anti-politics. That's all that it is. And angry and enervated people move, and they go. They go away from you, and eventually you have to make

the choice to follow them or not. And unless, of course, we get like Sheikh Rothermere and like a gigantic turban doing like Ottoman bowstring like shenanigans with his like, you know, 100 nephews, then I think we know what's going to happen. You know, they're, they're going to try to keep their audience, but hey, let's see. Right. All we can do is see. Yeah. Maybe, maybe it'll all just blow over. Right. And we have a, we, we have an unfortunate track record of being too right, which is all to say, but like, you know, it's something that in this instance I would rather not think about, like, in too

much depth. But what I will say is that the camp will be a great way for me to sort of spend less time on my phone, and more time out in the open, and to sort of be with my own thoughts, and I'm looking forward to what I'm considering to be a very long digital detox Well, look, I think with that we can end the first episode I mean, I actually think kind of the Patrick episode was the first episode of season 6. We just didn't know it Yeah, it was episode like zero. It was the preface. That's what it was. This is chapter season 6 chapter 1 Season 6 chapter 0. Oh, it's all Hitlerlers. Yeah. So this is book three. This is, no, this is, this is act five, book three,

season six, Chapter One, coming to a close. Some of the opening of a bleep test. Also I want to remind everybody, as I've been requested to do that, if you are in Edinburgh, you can go see Milo. You remember Milo? He was on this show recently. He used to be on this podcast. Yeah. He is at 5.45 every day at Monkey Barrel. So yeah, do go see Milo. As you know, our Edinburgh show is sold out, but we will perform again somewhere, somehow. Uh, other than that, uh, as a reminder, of course, it's a Patreon. It's $5 a month and you get a second episode every week. Uh, there's also $10 episodes of Left Unread and Britnology on, on there as well.

November and I are actually changing up the order a little bit. You know what? We, we couldn't put down Patrick O'Brien. So we're just, we're doing, we're doing the Mauritius command. More boats. Mauritius command next. Van Em, son of the century. So update your reading schedules. That's all we have for today. So we will see you on the bonus episode in a few short days. Bye everyone. Bye. Bye. Thanks for watching!