TRASHFUTURE - The Day After The Day After Tomorrow ft. Séamus Malekafzali

Episode Date: October 21, 2025

Séamus - now host of the Turbulence podcast about the post-American imperial age - joins us to talk about the ceasefire in Gaza that wasn't, as well as the whole-of-government effort to rehabilitate football hooliganism. Also, we look at a fun new way to get carbon dioxide into your body. Check out Séamus's new show - https://turbulencepod.substack.com.

So, okay, you ever just read something that fully stunlocks you occasionally? More and more, for sure, as I would say. Yeah. All the time. So you know me, right? You know I like to read the transcripts of earnings calls, and I'd like to read things that CEOs say about certain companies. And I never thought it would happen to me, but Starbucks is officially launching Starbucks

Odyssey, which is launching later this year, the coffee chain's first foray into building with Web3 technology and NFTs allowing its customers to both purchase and earn digital assets to unlock exclusive experiences and rewards. Yes. Okay. I'm sorry. What year is this? I'm sorry.

That was from 2022. Let me get the right document up. Um, so Starbucks CEO Brian Nicol emphasized that while Starbucks is currently focused on learning and experimentation within the AI space, sorry. Did things, did things not work out for Starbucks Odyssey? Would you say that Starbucks Odyssey's journey was in some way delayed and knocked off course a number of times and therefore was an extremely frustrating experience for Starbucks? Well, let me, hold on, I yolode every penny I've ever earned.

from the podcast into Starbucks, Odyssey Bucks. They could have just called it Starbucks. A bunch of guys are trying to, like, lined up trying to fuck Starbucks's wife right now. Yeah. There's this really crazy new ordering system where your drink is freebie. It's like, shoot an arrow, something like this. No, let me just check. I put it all into Odyssey Bucks.

Okay, let's see. How many NFTs do you get from those? Let's just, let me just quickly calculate benefit net of tax losses. I am in thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars worth of time. Yeah. It's okay. It's okay. You can dig yourself back up again with this AI thing. Yeah. Were they trying to rebrand coffee as Slurp Juice? Uh, well, that could have worked.

That could have been, they could have done so many good things in 2022. Is Slurp juice a soup? Yeah. So remember 2022? I sure do. Brian Nicol, the new CEO, former CEO of Taco Bell. They kicked out the McKinsey consultant that lost them $20 billion. And then they hired the Taco Bell guy. He looks like he's gotten Chad surgery. Guy who only knows how to do Taco Bell motivation. So it's like Starbucks is a brand that believes in living mass? Or at least living Venti.

So, thank you. The technology is already helping the company execute its goal of becoming the world's greatest customer service company again. The strategy is called Back to Starbucks. Doing back to basics for a business model of selling you a cup full of sugary milk. Yeah. Cool. Well, hang on.

We got to put that in the computer, right? We got a computer that. And that interfaces with the monstrous reality of the American consumer. Like some shambling walks into your Starbucks and goes, yeah, I want the Charlie Kirk Memorial Slurp juice and you have to translate

that into something that they can put into one of the holes in their face. It's not just respectful that you ordered the Charlie Kirk Memorial Slurp coffee. It's downright, it's downright patriotic. So, if a partner encounters a problem with equipment or needs guidance on, quote, how to build

a drink, then the Starbucks green dot AI system quickly delivers the right answer or solution. This is going to turn me to Dennis Leary. I want a coffee-flavored coffee, God damn. None of this anti-woke shit. Because now you can do a pretty good type five on this of like how now you have to do a bunch of anti-woke virtue signaling and it's as annoying to you as the woke stuff was

back in the day. And it's like you have to click through like five minutes of like, do you want a Charlie Kirk coffee? No, just a normal coffee. Donald Trump. No, just a normal coffee. Like normal coffee. Do you want the Donald Trump coffee and it gets served in a fighter jet and it gets deployed out the back of it like in his meme that he did?

Despite the advancements in artificial intelligence, Nicol was quick to quash any notions of a fully robotic staff saying, we're not quite there yet. Yeah, they haven't taught a computer to have they-them pronouns yet, so no danger. More specifically, they haven't taught a computer to have they-them pronouns in one of three locations in like Peoria. Also, like, they can't, it's very sick because like they talk about the way they're framed is like, oh, like we're going. going to, but you're really far away from having like fully automated like coffee processing stuff. But like Blank Street, that's Blank Street's whole thing, isn't it? But like they have their baristas don't actually make the coffee. They have like machines and systems that basically do. And the baristas' whole job is just to sort of manage those systems.

Stand by the machine and have pronouns. Perfect. Ideal job. But basically mine as well. You could you could melt down the Blank Street coffee computer by just like giving them like a very strange custom order and then referring to them by the wrong pronouns or saying something like I would like to be you know I'd like to coffee to be personalized as like Charlie like Charlie Turk actually never give it to me yeah I was trying I was trying to make a bit about the mechanical tech but I feel like that got so got lost you know if you're at home make your own that's right yeah but yeah this isn't like new technology and so he's also like massively behind on this on this like thing that like no one else in the industry is really they they no one in

the industry is really doing this except for Blank Street. And like, there's not really a discernible advantage to it. Well, so what they say is that they're using this, they're putting AI in all the Starbucks to get more partners back into the stores and give people a great experience rooted in real craft. And the experience of most people at Starbucks is this is where I can go to like vent all of my Facebook anger at someone who's not allowed to talk back to me. Well, it depends on where you are because there's also like a lot of Starbucks, at least like in the UK and Europe is just like it's either the only coffee place that's available. Or it's in a roadside services.

Right. Or it's in a roadside services. Or it's just like, I don't know, I had like a fairly big Starbucks area like where I used to live. And it was like, again, like that's why I say it was like the only coffee place. And so its main purpose was to sort of like give builders like very, very sugary coffees. And I always found that very funny. Like the idea of, we've talked about this before where it's like old millennial or like, you know, woke lefties. Like, you know, all they want are like, you know, frapper, like these like mega chopper fackered penis.

But it's like, no, like the exact. opposite is true. But the second point is also just like that Starbucks was also the place where whenever I used to go to it, it was mostly occupied by like unhappy couples or school kids who had like nowhere else to go. Well, what nickel envisions is a future where friction is entirely removed the Starbucks experience. So again, yeah, that whole thing, like going in and having to deal with the pronouns and the fact that they won't write Charlie Kirk on my cup, it was like, it was like walking through sandpaper. It was so fructive. So potentially

integrating AI systems so seamlessly that customers might not even need to order at all. It's like a minority report, but for coffee? This is necessary? I sort of like walk into the Cerebro Starbucks thing and it shows me the locations of everyone on earth

who wants a Charlie Kirk Memorial Slab Juice. He suggested the user could simply talk into their phone saying, hey, I need to get Starbucks and I'll be there in 10 minutes. And A drink would be ready upon their arrival. Just something. I, yeah, just like, talking into your phone, like, I actually identify as some kind of hog

and would like, you know, some liquid poured into my trough. Doesn't really matter what kind, you know? Yeah, better have say, hey, extra cadmium. I'm trying to get big. And the idea, right, is that you have this app, and then the app records everything about you, then they can predict your coffee order. So, anyway, and combine that with, like, the fact that right now, everyone actually actually in the industry in AI.

I'm talking about like this really, I think quite important Andrei Carpathie interview, but he was just like, yeah, the cutting edge of LLM research is right now is that this is now as good as it gets. It's not getting better. Agents are never going to get better. The fact that it has no memories

and its context window always closes perfectly and then opens completely empty next time you use it means like, it's not getting better than this. And the fact that that's happening at the same time as Starbucks is like, fuck it, we're an AI company now. I mean, look,

I never like to say this is the moment that bubble pops because inevitably it's never when you expect but my God sometimes you read

something and you just have to get up and walk around for a little while What happens if like my sex robot wants like a frappuccino like how would the Starbucks

AI like sort of like What if I want to express my admiration for ever virginal AI movie star Tilly fucking Norwood or whatever her name is buying her

a Charlie Kirk coffee who's saying you're describing the plot of the movie her you're describing the ending of the movie movie her, which is they all get together. Yeah, they all, they all get together at the Starbucks. Yeah, well, you know what, I remember.

They're going to be, they're going to finally make it a place to hang out again as opposed to a place for either builders to get like 30 times their daily allowance of sugar, as is in UK and Europe, or for people to like have one side of an argument they've been having in their head for 14 years with a bewildered teenager. Can't wait. Thank you, Brian Nicol. Remember, the global village coffee house, aesthetic. I don't wonder that was.

Oh, the music. The Paneras. Like, I don't know. I remember it being very warm, very simple. Dare I say it's nostalgic, but it seems better than what it is right now. Return with a V. This is what they took from you. This is unironically what they took from you. Yeah. Art. Once the AI thing burst and like when you go back to having normal coffee coffee shops, I want one where like, it's just like some Greek guy that's rude to you and it only sells you like one.

And you can ask for, like, fucking, like, mega Frappuccino. And all he does is just give you, like, the one coffee that, like, coffee-flavored coffee with, like, some cigar ashes, like, sprinkled on there. In the sort of woke accords, the thing that will end the sort of, like, strife on the left and unify us against the right. The compromise is all coffee shops are like that, but the Greek guys do have to say their pronouns. Yeah, yeah. That's the deal. They can be rude to you as much as you want, but they do have to respect your pronouns. I'm on the negotiating team for the woke accords.

We're all flying out for it. Yeah. Well, a bunch of you are flying out for it. A bunch of others are being like, oh, they're flying, I see. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm really, because weirdly, I'm actually on the anti-woke delegation. You wouldn't even necessarily guessed that, but. No, it's you and Dennis Leary.

You've been united. We're the coffee-flavored coffee party. It's you, it's Dennis Leary, and it's Louis Blanche. Anyway, hi everyone, that's been a 13-minute cold open about Starbucks. Hold on, sorry, there's someone at the door. I'll be back in just a moment. Oh, sorry, it's the entire Maccabee Tel Aviv away fan firm group. Oh, we have to let all of them in because of otherwise we would be doing anti-Semitism.

Yeah, they've asked to come in and I guess they're like reverse vampires where if they asked to come in that they have to let them in, essentially. Well, I mean, I assume they just want to, like, peacefully enjoy a football game and not, like, smash anything up, right? Yeah, I think they're, they're, they've said they're here on a tour of independent podcast studios in the United Kingdom, and they're just going to, like, look at how we've hooked up the mics to the Dante array. Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Yeah, I think that's good if you. Oh, no, no, no, it's a model top cocktail. Okay, never mind. Oh, there's got a flare in his ass. Okay, we're going to have to pause recording for a second. Well, I mean, the thing is, the thing is, that guy, the flare and that guy's ass has a right to exist. The guy has a right to put a flare at his ass to defend himself. That flare has been in there for 5,000 years, okay?

Ow! No, just peel back the curtain? Pull back the curtain a little bit. Yeah, peel back this very greasy cups. We, yeah, the studio that we've been in that we have never cleaned. Please, peel back this curtain, scrape up a chair and join. us. Hey, why don't you wipe down a surface and take a seat. No, this is, this is tea. That was just a skit. The Maccabee Tel Aviv supporters firm is not here. They're currently what like all in jail

in Jerusalem or something or in Tel Aviv. And instead, this is TF, the podcast that you're listening to. We're very, we're very different from the TF firm, who are, who are a lot more violent than us, but not as violent as Maccabee Tel Aviv. Yeah, notorious hooligans, the TF podcast firm. Okay, shirt idea. We're just going to pocket that. But just because we're kind of by reputation, one of the more left wing podcasts in London doesn't mean that our fans

are necessarily. And really, the algorithm is kind of independent of the It's not even really almost so much about the podcast actually. It's a bit like the Chelsea headhunters. Like they started getting into like illegal activities via the organization of the you know what? I'm just going to introduce our guest. It's

Seamus Malikovselli. He's back. And Shamus, You're hosting, you're not just, you're not just here with a newsletter anymore. You're hosting a, a podcast now. Yes, I gave in to the want of every male over the age of, I think, like 23, 24. Yeah. Yes, me, Dylan Sava and our producer, M. Senisa, we are now producing a podcast called Turbulance, which is about the destruction of the liberal order since October 7th.

And we're very, dare I say it, we like it so far. We've been recording some episodes to bank, which we're going to premiere on October 28th, and I think it's going to be pretty good. I really hope that you get over the sort of thing that a lot of podcasts stumble with, which is how to open the podcast without getting a 20 to 30 minute cold open. Yeah, the second one is how you tolerate, like, your, you know, your firm. Like, you know, so the turbulence firm might be very different to turbulence for hope. Have you met your official supporters club yet? Like, do they seem nice? Or do you think that they bring brass knuckles to feeding?

I firmly believe in my own experience in meeting people who follow my work, they are usually more intelligent, much more handsome or beautiful than I am. I think we're going to keep that up with this podcast. I think we want that kind of audience. So what we're going to do is we're going to talk a little bit about, and in fact, you know what, when I say we're going to talk a little bit about sort of the, we'll start with, again, some of the Western world ramifications of the you know, ongoing atrocities being committed in, in Palestine. The ceasefire that wasn't, et cetera. Yeah, the ceasefire in name only.

And then we're going to talk about the region itself. I kind of resent a little bit the fact of being unable to ignore a football argument because it was basically made the all channels cause celeb of the entire United Kingdom in a way, I think, not seen since the fucking Suez crisis over the last five days. It's another one of the kind of curses that before Starma is that football is one of the only things he genuinely cares about. It's just that due to both his politics and how personally weird he is, he can't ever, like, say anything about it without it being either the most authoritarian thing you've ever heard or just the kind of personally strangest.

And this one's kind of in both camps. Yeah, so to catch you up on if you're in America, maybe you haven't been following this, Israel's second most racist football club, or sorry, Israel's second most racist football firm. Maccabee, Tel Aviv. You'll never sing that. Maccabee, Tel Aviv, they are supposed to play a match against Aston Villa as part of the Europa League, like Europe's like second rate league. This was supposed to happen. And then the West Midlands police issued an order saying, hey, we're not going to allow the away fans to come to the game.

Yeah, which they had done for like not even. West Midlands Police specifically, but which police in the UK do fairly regularly, like, couple of times a year for all sorts of, like, overseas fans. They did this for Legio Warsaw last year, I think. So not unique, not new. This is off the back of events of last year in Amsterdam, where this same fan firm basically appears to have started a riot by just being so, like, drunk and hooliganish. And, you know, it's a few things about this are, sort of darkly amusing. Number one is that when this ban was announced by the police, these bands come from a history of moral panics around football hooliganism that were

replete in the UK in the 1980s and the 1990s. And now you have what appear to be the entire British political mainstream coming out in favor in principle of football hooliganism because it has been made politically necessary to do so by the fact that this is something that will anything to make Israel seem normal. God, has anyone ever won British politics as much as Tommy Robinson has? I swear to God. No, I mean, Tommy is literally right now. He's a guest of the Israeli Minister of Diaspora Affairs.

And I follow the minister's telegram channel. He's interviewing him talking about, like, he's to the Israeli government, this man is the repository of all of the most incisive critiques of British society right now. Like, he's skyrocketed in terms of relevance in ways that really are quite frightening. Yeah, and you know what else? You know where Tommy Robinson's background is? You know why he is who he is other than probably tapped up by the intelligence services? Why he is who he is and does what he does is football hooliganism.

Yeah. He is a leading football hooligan. That's where his background is. Actually, I read somewhere that like he actually wasn't really that kind of like notorious a hooligan. And like there were actual hooligans that were annoyed with him. He was a fake fan He brands himself that way But like

Stealing Valour is really really fun Basically yeah Like they were like Yeah he actually wasn't really Like he was a bit of a pussy And like he's just kind of like Riding the Wave and like You know he's a charismatic guy

But they were just like Yeah you didn't really actually do any proper violence I read that like years ago And I thought it was so funny And obviously like thinking about the context now I'm just like imagine like being a fucking guy Who's like you're you've dedicated yourself To football hooliganism

And like that's your thing And like you know you sort of really you know, you've sort of like lost teeth as a result of it. And like you see this fucking guy. Someone called like Mickey De Terror or something. And you just see this fucking guy who like is like five foot six weirdo who like you know you just sort of

saw as like short and scrawny and like he's getting all the things that like you want or that you deserve. And I think that's just so funny. But like yeah, I think the point about we spoke about this a little bit with Eleanor fairly recently. But like it is sort of interesting to see that like the efforts to kind of like make is be or appear to be normal, like at a gargantuan task considering that, like, you know, they are still killing people and they are still sort of putting out like tons and tons of

content. And also I saw this video of the other, like, I think this morning of like an exercise class where like the women who were sort of doing like Pilates or something were doing it to like that, um, the song like, may your village burn. I don't know what the name is, but like that's a sort of like line. And that sort of like presented as like the kind of unofficial anthem of Israel right now, which I always got to say very, very normal. But like the point just being that like as the Israeli state has become more and more unhinged, which is, you know, very, very, you know, that's just just to sort of know how extreme like they started off with and how they've become. As the government kind of like tries to present Israel, like, as this like very normal place that's very like

deeply connected to like British Jews, especially British liberal Jews. Meanwhile in Israel, like, you know, pretty much every political party embrace Tommy Robinson coming in. Tommy Robinson then sort of like speaking to Israeli ministers being like, yeah, like, you know, you're, you know, the British government has failed you. Liberal Jews have failed you. I think like he called the deputy, what's it called the board of deputies? The board of deputies. They were like, yeah, they've also betrayed you.

You know, and they're not real Jews. And I was just sort of thinking to myself like, yeah, like, you know, you've done all this type, you've done, you know, as of Labor government, you've done all this stuff to sort of capitulate to these groups that like very, very transparently. Like they were being cynical, but they were also like very much, you know, they were very, like, be, you know, anyone with like a brain could sort of see what they were doing. You've capitulated and bent backwards to sort of appease these people. You've kind of like introduced draconian measures on protesting in like both like in sort of on the street and online in order to sort

of abide by the definition of anti-Semitism. You've done so much to basically say that like, you know, you are on the side of like Israel and that still isn't enough. And you and and this five foot six guy who like has stolen valour for being a, for being a football hooligan is undermining all of that and there is nothing you can do. What they can do is what they have been doing, which is preemptively agreeing with him, which is every organ of the British state and British mid. There was a fucking live blog about like the Maccabee, Tel Aviv banning scandal. Yeah.

And I saw like some new stuff where they were doing like these kind of like to a 25 minute segments and like spiked like to like one of a one and a half hour long podcasts all about this. And it was just like I was really kind of like I don't think this is as much of an issue as like you guys are presenting. But nevertheless, it is also sort of endemic of how kind of like the media, both traditional and new media, like, see themselves in terms of like being able to shift the debate and like sort of shape policy as a result. And like this Labour government, I feel like in every turn have sort of like really jumped the gun in terms of like they see what's happening in this sort of like media landscape and they try to sort of react to it in order to kind of minimize to perceive damage. Was this making you happy? Is this enough? I'll drink more from the puddle.

And they see that like this government is like really, really responsive to all the fucking whining that we do on this show. And like, you know, you can exaggerate as much as you want and they will sort of like appease you. In part because like they're so desperate to like increase their approval numbers that they are willing to kind of like really sort of jump the gun, particularly when it comes to draconian measures in order to prove that they're sort of like cracking down on like, you know, crime and stuff like that. But it's like the conclusion has always been like it's never enough. It is never ever enough. But the people, like, too, that Tommy Robinson is turning around and telling all these groups. The entire British state has failed. It's entirely compromised. there's a whole of government effort to agree with that, to say, yes, the British state has failed, the West Midlands police have failed, they're entirely compromised, the MP is compromised, Britain is an unsafe place because we're all just going to take it as read that the reason that these fans are being banned is because we can't keep them safe from all the political Islam in Birmingham. And then the punchline to this, of course, is they get into a football riot the day after, Keir Starmer says, I will commit to use the full force of the British state

to allow these like couple hundred guys to come in and like turn over cars in Birmingham, basically. I mean, these people are controversial within Israeli football. The Tel Aviv Derby got canceled. The Tel Aviv police clearly thought it found it expedient to close the event because of the threat of these people. I mean, something that I saw today really illustrates like what all these British politicians are attempting to let into the country, into Birmingham, a city that is filled to the brim with like, frankly, with Muslims. Like, what do you think people are going to do to these people? It's on the official website.

It's one of their chants. It's called the Rape Song. And here's some of it here. You sing songs about the Holocaust and also think it's funny to deny the state. You are Arab horrors. We are ashamed of you. At the end of the day, we will fuck you. We will fuck you.

And then we will drink your blood. In the town square, we will hang every communist. We'll take your girls who love to go wild. When we rape them, we'll shout. Today is the day of death. Today is the day of death. This is on their website. Yeah.

It's a chart that they do against Hapuel, who are like, nominally the left wing, like, Israeli because they, like, have historical ties to the, like, you know, like communist Zionist or, like, socialist, Zionists, like, associations. And so they're like, yeah, this is, this is treason to us. And they're, as I said, not even the most right wing Israeli football. club by reputation, because that's Betar. Yeah. Like, if Betar comes, are they going to get what, like, the Queen's guards escorting them

to, like, whatever stadium they're supposed to play at? This is astonishing. Well, no, you're just obliged to, like, let these guys riot and let these guys, like, attack you because otherwise you are participating in, like, a deep structural anti-Semitism that has made Birmingham a no-go zone. And if you suggest that any of this is like not even laundering a fascist talking point, just like outwardly embracing it, that that too is sort of like prejudice of you, you know? Jesus Christ, are they going to, like, what was the plan that they're going to come in and everybody's going to be like hunky dory with each other? No, it's going to be a fucking disaster.

I think the plan, of course, is to just allow there to be a disaster because one of the things all football hooligans have in common, regardless of where they're from, is they want to fight. they want to cause trouble. And then the only thing is, because the number one mission of the UK government, because I think this is one of the few things that, and we'll sort of use this to kind of flip into sort of more of the international dimension here, but the number one mission of the UK government right now is Launder is trying to maintain its place as an important player in Western foreign policy. And the only way it can do that is by having all of its stances be very similar to

the only actual important player in Western foreign policy, the United States, right? And so it is just like, you know, Starmer walks up, walks up to Trump and gets sort of like, you know, dangled in front of the podium and then shove back into line. You know, it's the same thing. And like, as I talk about this, not even as a coherent political project. I talk about it as a reflex, right? There is not a coherent political project necessarily at the top of Starmerism so much as there is a sense of here's what the people we don't like would want. And we have to rep, we have to defend the country. We have to defend the imaginary people who we think are proper British people. people against the people who we know that are wrong. And so they're unable to look into the content of anything. It's purely about image. I mean, I was thinking of this the other day, right? They say, you know, China is a government of engineers. America has historically been a government of lawyers. Now it seems to be a government largely of podcasters. And I think the UK is in a long time has been a government of PR people and lobbyists. And so it is constant reactive image management. In this case, the image they want to project is we are taking political Islam seriously, number one.

And we just, that's a loose thing that we can define however we want. It can encompass whatever we want. And we are going to take anti-Semitism seriously, which are we are going to, when it's convenient, largely conflate with Israel. And that means that we're going to be credible. But we're also going to burn, in order to pursue this PR strategy, we are going to look directly into and burn down. any institution that we think it might look good to attack. I mean, this is hardly the first time. As I remember, we talked about this one of the last times there was a number of protests in central London, actually. I believe these were also Palestine Solidarity protests, where the

government tried to make itself seem more harsh and serious by directly interfering in met police operational policing decisions and, like, accusing them of like being anti-Semites, like arresting people who are holding stars of David. And what I recall is the Metropolitan Police were like, you can't say that to us. You have to fuck off immediately. Do not talk to me. And it seems to be the same thing that we're doing with the West Midlands Police is being like, oh, all of that stuff that we brought in in the moral panic against hooligans in 1980s and 90s, we're actually, we're done with that stuff now because some hooligans are right. In fact, hooligans appear to be largely the foot soldiers of the transformation of the British state that we are gladly ushering in.

I'm sure that they'll sort of respond to this, you know, submission very well, right? They're definitely not going to kind of still kick the shit out of you anyway, right? Because obviously if there's one thing we know about football hooligans is that they famously respect weakness. Got a strong theology of suffering, you know? Also, international sporting bands were a huge part of the campaign against South Africa in, or South African apartheid. like banning them from international rugby actually was quite meaningful. But the thing is, I don't think Israeli society actually has a national love of football like South Africa has about rugby. I think it's actually quite empty of passions.

I don't think other than like, I don't know, bad Molly and trance music. Right. You take out your passions by like burning down villages in the West Bank, right? Like that's the kind of, that's the one libidional part of Israeli society as far as I can tell. I mean, there's a football culture. I mean, they have a lot of football clubs. but in terms of that actually translating into quality, I mean, we saw with the national football team

when they played against Italy and Norway in the qualifiers. Like, it's not, it's not really going anywhere. As much as I can tell. They won, I remember, like, back in the 60s when Israel played in the, in the AFC, when it still played in the AFC, they won the Asian Cup, but that was only because

there were like five countries playing against them. Like, they're really not good at it. Sorry to say. Yeah, but I mean, what's weird to see is the entire British government putting everything going all in on Israel's second most racist football firm to make their point for them. And then eating shit obviously on the river. You could probably, you could easily predict that. But it also contributes to this sense that nothing is true and the truth doesn't matter. And there is more and more of the world that just lives under the rule of power.

It just happens that the people who are exerting power here don't understand it and are quite stupid. bit. Yeah. And also, like, the stuff that moves the government to action now can be whatever kind of crank right-wing concern. I don't know if you saw this, but the East London Mosque was doing like a park run or something. Oh, God, nothing makes British conservatives crazy like park run. Yeah, but it was, um, so ostensibly, as, as the sort of press had it, they banned women, right, from this. And this has led to, of course, your usual house of right-wing outrage, but also, has therefore moved one of these kind of captured institutions, the Equality and Human Rights Commission to investigate.

And then the women's leader of East London Mosque was like, yeah, two women wanted to do it. So the whole thing is sort of like wildly disproportionate at the absolute minimum. But it doesn't matter because we may not have a sort of government of podcasters, but we have a government that can be moved by podcasters, just not our kind of podcaster. Yeah, which is arguably worse because like listening to fucking podcasts, Oh, my God.

No offense to anyone listening to this show. It's really, it's more of a, it's like government as sort of having its sort of concerns and actions dictated by it worse than podcast as bloggers. Yeah. Yes. Yeah, but I want to move on to talk about like about the region itself, right? Because there is a ceasefire, but it is one of these ceasefires that I think is entirely fictional as the Israeli army has continued killing, you know, at least dozens of Palestinians a day,

civilians and combatants alike. But there is this thing that is called a ceasefire, it seems, that could have been brokered by Trump that is supposed to be part of this long-awaited day after plan that it became very clear that nobody had from October 8th onward. So, Seamus, can you just tell us a little bit about what is this ceasefire that isn't? I mean, ostensibly, this ceasefire is supposed to, I mean, it did achieve the exchange of all the remaining living hostages in Gaza for hundreds of Palestinian prisoners that were still in Israeli prisons. I think something like 98% of Palestinians serving life sentences were released in this deal. I mean, it was significant even if it did not achieve the release of major leaders like

Barhouti and Sadat. After that, Israel moved behind what it called the yellow line, which represents a little over 50% of Gaza's territory, mostly in rural areas outside of urban areas. In the second phase, which is supposed, sorry, I should say it should be negotiated at some point in the near future. Israel is supposed to move behind another line so that an international force of peacekeepers can come in, which will then disarm Hamas and other Palestinian factions. And then there will be under the Trump plan, a transitional government of Palestinian technocrats who are apolitical, but are in fact governed by an extraterritorial board of peace, which is chaired

by Donald Trump himself, and Tony Blair is supposed to be involved with alongside a number of other American businessmen whose names escape me. I think this one Jewish person is supposed to be on that board as well, a rabbi. In terms of the actual sustainability of that ceasefire in regards answer your question. What happened yesterday before this recording was a, what apparently happened was a bulldozer and Rafah ran over an unexploded ordinance. It is unclear if it was an IED that had been planted there a while ago or if it was an Israeli bomb. It's not clear. Bulldozer ran that over, killed a number of Israeli personnel. Then the IDF claimed that no, it was Hamas fighters who had come out of tunnels and they had launched this incredible assault within territory that no

Palestinians were in, and then that justified them breaking the ceasefire for temporarily in order to strike Gaza more than a hundred times before then saying, actually, we're going back to ceasefire now, so, you know, no takebacks. So it seems like what this is, is it's a ceasefire at any point where there isn't shooting, and then when there was shooting, the ceasefire is off, which to me is the same as just a, the tempo of an attack. Technically, when you think about it, there were microsecond long ceasefires while all the, like, weapons were cycling. So when you think about it, it's, it's been sort of stop, start from the

beginning. Yeah. What it is is a ceasefire that one side is empowered to violate it will and can also put the other on the hook for, for like, claimed violations, whether that's Hamas sort of like attacking sort of like armed gangs, whether it's Hamas executes and collaborators, whatever it is, that can all get folded into this is sufficient reason for the IDF to start bombing again. And so this appears to be like, I don't understand what the political usefulness of the ceasefire is, except for just the general acceptance that this has to slow down. I mean,

Donald Trump Peace Prize next time around, maybe. I mean, he was pissed. He didn't get it this time. Really, it strikes me that the kind of, because this is not going to be a novel observation that Donald Trump is chiefly kind of a reactive organism, right? But he lost his temper with Netanyahu, right? And we were saying, we've been saying for two years at this point,

that this is a war that could have been ended by any American president with a phone call, having run out of patience with Netanyahu. And ultimately, Trump is now kind of testing the limits of that, which is he got pissed off one time, made one phone call, made Netanyahu apologize to Qatar. And now we get Netanyahu seeing how much he can kind of finesse Trump on it. Yeah. And to what extent is that it was Trump able to just decide, okay, I'm annoyed at you personally, this is done? Uh, instantaneously, uh, it seems like, I mean, after the ceasefire was quote unquote broken by Hamas, I mean, Israel announced that it would restrict all humanitarian aid. Uh, Rafa crossing would not be opened indefinitely. And then suddenly, maybe hours after that have been announced, Trump and the government tell Nanyahu, actually you have to keep to this. And so the rafa crossing is going to be open this week, at least for now. Um, and aid was, you know, the flow of aid was reopened.

And then there was, I can't remember who specifically said this, it might have been Vance, said that the American government is making decisions in Gaza now. This was something that was entirely within the purview of Joe Biden. Like, we knew this, but it's never been said so openly and unabashedly, like, no. The American government is the primary weapon supplier to you guys. The only way this work can continue is with American support. And thus, they put their thumbs on that scale and demand, actually, hey, you can't embarrass the president like this. immediately tearing up this thing. He went, look, this man with the Sharma al-Sheikh,

he hung out with the president of FIFA and here's Sarmer and embarrass all these people to sign a peace deal. You have to, like, when the ceasefire was initially broken in March, the one that was signed in January, it took two months for Trump to forget that he actually cared about this peace deal, that he touted

it as a victory. You can't, like, Israel is so impatient to get back to war that it cannot let things stand. Like, remember Iran who were with Iran when that suddenly

ended in the ceasefire and then suddenly I mean literally minutes after the ceasefire came into effect Israel started sounding sirens and claimed that there was an Iranian missile

coming towards and they needed to go bomb like minutes afterwards they did not want to submit to it and then Trump had to tell them to turn the jets back around I mean Ben Vier is right now

going on Channel 14 and being like yeah okay now that we have the ostrichs back let's go finish the job I mean, again, this is what he's, he's been remarkably consistent in what he's been saying, right? There's this tendency is not going, certainly now, now not going away. And in signing the ceasefire, it seems like almost what's happening is Netanyahu alienating, you know, the right wing elements of his governing coalition might actually end up being forced to choose between remaining in power and breaking the ceasefire.

Do you think that's likely? The thing about Ben-Givir and Smotrich is that, I mean, they place pressure on Netanyahu to get back into the war. Not that he needs much prodig, admittedly, but they are like the counterweights there to some element of some American pressure. But they also know where their butter is, actually, I don't know how that metaphor ends. Which side of the bread, their butter? What the fuck? What is it? Look, there's butter, there's bread.

It's put together in such a way. He put Ben-Fir on a slice of toast. It always lands Ben-Givir's side down. Yeah. Anyway, anyway, I mean, the thing is that the polls are coming out of the next election. I mean, there are talks about doing an early election, not next year. I mean, Ben-Givir gains, but smoke with his party, religious scientists, they get blown out. Nanyahu is not really doing well, not doing hot. They really don't, I mean, Ben-Givir might try to blow things up because he is the most, the craziest out of all of them.

but he alone cannot break up the coalition. It would require other parties. It would require Netanyahu to, I mean, I mean, there's also these pressure points with trying to draft the ultra-Orthodox into the military, more of them yes to the students. I mean, that could also break it up. They really don't. It's kind of, it's a bit, it's delicate. They can't just blow it up and then the next election comes around once the coalition

falls apart and then they get blown out and then this was all for not. They recognize that if they may be, I think Smoltec especially, he's a little bit smarter than Ben-Givier. If they are a little bit more patient, if they outwardly talk about how frustrated they are, then they can get their war. They can get the Gaza real estate bonanza that's what we're, that's a small difference talking about. They can buy their time, I think. Well, if you want to talk about the real estate bonanza, I mean, it seems like the, we're talking, we mentioned the day after plan. It seems a huge amount of the day after plan is something of a real estate trade show.

I mean, if you read some of the documents around the, the, the, the, sort of the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the. authority that will be that will hold that will hold power in Gaza until it's transferred to a quote unquote reformed PA because of course yeah this is the organization needs reform reform reformed reform they're not demanding like economic reforms or or IMF loans or even that Mahoud Abbas solely that he should submit to another election the current president which has been in power since 05 they're demanding what Nanyahu calls an end to incitement effectively the apolitization politicization of the Palestinian Authority to where it will never criticize Israel in any aspect of society whatsoever. It becomes entirely subservient to Israeli society and the

Israeli political directives, which is functionally impossible unless you are, as I imagine they hope are, is it going to happen, that the Palestinian population is expelled largely from Gaza and the West Bank, where it can become, I mean, Smokokk himself talked about that if If Gaza's Palestinian population is narrow to 100,000, 200,000, then settlement can be expanded without much opposition. That is the model that they want to follow in Gaza and the West Bank. Make it the minimum number of Palestinians who can be easily controlled and have all of their desire is entirely absent for the political discussion.

The way I've been seeing this, just as I've been sort of putting together the notes on this as we begin thinking about the day after, it seems seriously for the first time in years, is that this is the direct exact opposite of what reconstruction in the American South was supposed to have been, right? This is reconstruction if the American South won, basically. So this is, so the Gita itself, they say the commissioner will track PA, Palestinian Authority reform efforts in coordination with international donors. And again, what we're talking about is reform in the instance that you're talking about, Seamus, which is like depoliticization, A politicization, buying people fucking bus tickets to, like, leave the country. A source interviewed by Reuters said that the reforms that Tony Blair's plan expects of the PA are, quote, not cosmetic and that the reason that there's not a set timeline for them to hand over the authority of Gaza to this newly reformed PA is that the process will be performance-based. So, yeah, the PA, of course, is the organization.

You can argue they do need reform, but nevertheless. They need reform in a direction that is not going to be palatable to history. That's a great discussion. But they also, this is, this plan envisions the establishment of the Gaza investment promotion. and economic development authority to secure private finance for Gaza's reconstruction, saying it will be a commercially driven authority led by business professionals and tasked with generating investable projects with real financial returns. He's going to be like, do you want to build like a Trump casino in Gaza,

and then we're going to kind of like rattle a can in front of various Gulf states and be like, hey, do you want to build, I don't know, if I can put a TV station there or something? Yeah, massive AI Starbucks. Yeah. Are you, are you one of the glasses, guys? And here's the thing. If you are one of those glasses guys and you're one of those people or you're one of the people who commissions the glasses guys because you're like, I want to build some like interesting architecture that gets a lot of like attention, right? You then ask the question, how do you give me any kind of meaningful guarantee that Israel don't blow it up in a battlefield six level spectacle in like six months or a year or five years or ten years?

And the answer is, to know, because to be honest, it really seems like there is no effective lever on Israel other than Donald. Trump's capriciousness, which is not something I would bet a building on it. Now, there is restrictions on that. Now, you're talking about, you know, the threat that these might get blown up. That only exists if the Palestinians that are utilizing these

projects actually live there. That's true. When they're talking about, I mean, I have a, I have an image in front of me of 10 mega projects that have been suggested for this. It's unclear on the source, but I have seen this image of this graphic before. I mean, they're talking about things like the Elon Musk

smart manufacturing zone, the American Data Safe Haven, the MBZ Central Highway, which is the name of the Dubai, not sorry, the Abu Dhabi ruler, the Abrahamic Gateway, the Abrahamic Infrastructure Corridor. These are things that Palestinian workers would work on in the same way that Palestinian workers from Gaza in the 1980s would come into Israel, work on projects and then go back. But, I mean, they're talking about planned cities with AI powerings and, you know, and modern, but these do not appear to be things that will have a lot of autonomy to them. These will not be things that any sort of self-government would be allowed to take control off. I mean, the things that the prox, the anti-Hamas forces that IDF is building up in like Beidlachia and in Rafa with Yassarapu Shab.

These are not administrations in the way the you and I think of them. They are militias that have trucks and they have tents and they gain collaborators, but they are not rebuilding anything. They exist to tempt you with regular food and regular medical services in contrast to the services that were destroyed in your own cities. But there is no future being offered there. It is simply to exist and then you die off. And what's notable, because I've seen the presentation as well that you're citing, is that the vast majority of the companies mentioned in it. And this is like a presentation that's not just like obtained from like Google. This was like republished by the Washington Post and then republished again by Wired.

Like there is some, you know, journalistic rigor. You can presume that's gone in behind this is, you know, all these companies are getting contacted and they're like, we don't know what you're talking about. And I think that's largely because there is still a hesitancy. No, no, no. They don't want to be associated. They know what this looks like. I mean, the same way that like when Khashoggi was killed, lots of kind of.

countries pulled out of, you know, Davos in the desert and all these different infrastructure projects in Niam. But once that, you know, left the public consciousness to a certain extent, then they came back in droves. Then they started investing in Niam again. Then they started getting back on board with the PR offense of Saudi Arabia. That's clearly, I think, the hope here that maybe if they can change the discussion from the genocide that has occurred and is still occurring to rebuilding, which is much more value neutral, even positive, then they can say, hey, we're not actually participating in ethic cleansing here. We're trying to make a better future for them.

And then that's when they can hitch themselves to it publicly. Well, quite. And I mean, there's several versions of this proposal floating around, right? The one that we're talking about is kind of the most, I would say, like, tech guy fantasist. The one that's being linked directly to Tony Blair is much more Blairite. It's very like, we're going to create investment zones or you get tax breaks. and we're going to be a commercially driven authority led by business professionals. Palestinians are finally going to experience the joys of benefit sanctions.

Yeah, we're going to remake Britain, but without all of the pesky rights and existing institutions and existing houses in buildings that Tony Blair had to confront when he was prime minister here and had his utopian visions for this place. All right, so they're going to get like the, they're going to get the Marbleauch mound as well. They're going to get ID cards. Showing up in the wake of a genocide to do some kind of like median center-right nanny state stuff and be like, yeah, I mean, there will be an allowance of food, but it is going to be like, you know, sugar substitutes. Yeah.

Yeah, it's like when there is eventually a Starbucks here again. We've got Jamie Oliverin to assign the rationing. Yeah, it's not going to get like turkey twizzlers. Yeah. When the AI Starbucks does get built here, we're actually only allowing medium-sized. drinks as a maximum. That's like the first rule of Tony Blair's, you know, Gaza experience. And, you know, the other thing, right, is that this is not just Tony Blair. This is also coming from inside the UK government, where Hamish Falconer, the Middle East Minister within the UK,

recently said, and this is an official speech is published on the UK government website. You can find it there. He says, together, we are backing a Palestinian-led recovery and reconstruction. We must be ready to act to clear rubble to rebuild homes, set up infrastructure, restore access to education and healthcare. Even then, also just, even then, even when talking about a group of people who has undergone sort of the greatest horror of this century, probably, they still can't just say restoring education and healthcare. They have to talk about access to health care. They can't just say it. But it says Gaza, Gaza and Palestine more broadly is real economic potential. Human capital, great resilience, fucking say, a critical location in a global diaspora. And that potential must be unlocked. This is the conference about how we do that to. together, how we support the Arab Reconstruction Plan, how we unlock the vast resources needed, not just through traditional donor finance, but thinking creatively to bring in private capital. And the language that is being used by Falconer here is so strikingly similar to how

fucking Bridget Philipson talks about getting people back to work in the UK. It's like, they have one worldview. Yeah, they only have one mode, whether that's for talking to Palestinians or talking to Britain. Which is like, hey, we're going to unlock your potential. We're going to you access to health care. We're going to do that by like regulating what drink size you can have and, you know, giving you an ID card that zaps you if you don't go to your like, you know, work capability interview at a job center that doesn't exist. Yeah. And to do all of that is bad enough. But to do it specifically in the wake of a genocide that you haven't just been sort of providing political cover for, but you've been making money selling weapons used in is a level of

evil that I struggle to kind of comprehend. Oh, God. And so what I come back to with the ceasefire. When you want to look at it in totality, there is very little fire that actually seems to be ceasing, but it seems as though this has kickstarted the real estate bonanza private finance contest between whatever fucking tech goblin invented the AI generated Gaza reconstruction plan that we talked about initially, or just, you know, Tony Blair doing his, like, we're finally going to do Blairism but correctly. Like all of this is surrounding a real State Bonanza that because there's a quote-unquote fake ceasefire, people feel permitted to talk about. If I was to sum it all up, that's kind of the totality of what I see.

I think it's been a bit too soon since the ceasefire was signed to see if there's been a distinct change. I think that will become more manifest if we get to phase through negotiations. I should say that if. Right now Israel is predicating the start of those negotiations on Hamas returning all the bodies of the Israeli hostages, which they are endeavoring to do. But virtually the entire strip has been demolished, essentially, people buried under rubble, countless people buried under rubble, heavy equipment being restricted. They sent in, they're trying to send in, I want to say, like something like an 80 bulldozer strong Turkish rescue force to find these people. But Israel is placing restrictions on that because they think it might be

used for Hamas purposes. Yeah, they're all going to make killdozers. Whatever. It's, it's, they don't want this to actually come to pass. They got all the living hostages out. So the main political pressure on Netanyahu was removed. They could still claim that they're holding dead hostage bodies. And that can in perpetuity be a reason to go back in and to, to encroach on, on territory in Gaza, to bomb, to kill, to maim. And they don't ever really have to get to phase two if they don't want to. If they get to phase two, then they can hold that in limbo for however long they want to.

want to because inevitably Hamas is not going to want to accede completely to a Tony Blair transitional government. So I think it'll take a while. It'll get there, I think, to a point in which they can start talking about the stuff much more open because they have to if they're talking about phase two stuff. But that might be a bit. So basically, it seems like it's happened. It's happened with maximum cynicism. And it's happened in such a way that, again, is maximum cynicism that is on the part especially of the Western allies who are pretending that this is some kind of a meaningful breakthrough. I mean, when Trump talked about the ceasefire coming to pass, he did not refer to it exclusively as, you know, a regular ceasefire in the way that Biden might have talked about it.

But also I read through the transcript recently of Biden announced in this case fire in January. And it literally crosses out when Biden says Hezbollah and then corrects it to say Hamas on the White House official transcripts. Oh, God. For 10 years, he's had presidents whose brains don't function. Oh, God. Anyway, I mean, when Trump announced it on true social, he talked about 3,000 years of confit coming to an end using that old trope, which is untrue, but it's an old trope nonetheless. Yeah. Finally, we dealt with those Romans who encroaching on Judea. I mean, he is desperate for, I mean, just today he was talking with Anthony Albanese, the prime minister of Australia, and he said, basically, the Middle East is a piece, but they've got this little thing with Hamas.

They've got to figure out. It's like, that's the one thing they've got to figure out. And then the entire region will be at peace. Yeah. I mean, there's a singular positive, but there's also a ton of negatives that come with, with this, with this vision. The single positive is that he has got his hooks in this, his attention in this, and he actually wants it to continue to a certain extent, the ceasefire negotiations. It's been made personal to him now.

It is now personal to him. It's the same way that when Netanyahu wanted to break the ceasefire with Iran so quickly, I mean, you saw him come off the helicopter and he looked exasperated and he literally said like they don't even know why the fuck they're fighting each other like he saw it as a personal insult and that kept his attention on it for a little bit

just like when fucking when he meets with Putin and then Putin's like you know a 40 minute unprompted thing about Rurik the Wise or whatever fucking blade character he's into and and like Trump is just like I don't care

I mean this is the thing Netanyahu being difficult to deal with personally because he's a cunt is not new. I think often of the Bill Clinton quote where he gets out of a meeting with Netanyahu and says, who the fuck does that guy think he is? Who's the fucking superpower anyway? But Bill Clinton was beholden to a Democratic Party that needed him to be pro-Israel. So was Biden. So would Kamala have been.

Donald Trump is weirdly, thanks to American peronism, only answerable to him to. He could get out there and he could be like, it's all the Transjordan or whatever. And every single Chud, who isn't currently plotting to assassinate him, would be like, yes, sir, Mr. President, I will die in a ditch for you. Yeah, like he could get all of them donning green headbands and driving trucks into the U.S. like embassy in Beirut. Donald Trump could become an Islamist and it would work. The only thing is that his brain is melting from the inside.

it out. And so the Bidenism will take him sooner or later. And so we just have to hope that he stays mad at Netanyahu long enough to affect anything before he starts getting like Earthrider thanks to the Great Lakes. This is what is beneficial by the ceasefire negotiations. The fact that they are so often in the news that it keeps coming up and he keeps having to attend to them or delegate someone to deal with them. Now it's Vance's problem. Now it's Wittkopf's problem. Now it's Kushner's problem and he keeps being told about it. He doesn't have the opportunity like in January to forget largely about Gaza. Do you think that like all his projects like the big ballroom and like the arc to Trump are just like he's desperately trying to distract himself from like his actual job and like his frustration. I don't I don't want to like think about Gaza anymore. I just want to like focus on my like you know my big wonderful ballroom. That man loves the the trappings of being president more than anything. Yeah. And there is like an extent to which, like, I mean, obviously everyone knows this, but, like, I was thinking about this the other day, like, Hamas, like, really do, are aware of, like, his, like, his lack of attention

and his sort of, like, inability to focus on stuff. And, like, I did wonder, like, well, who is more out of, like, an advantage when it comes to sort of, like, taking advantage, I suppose, of, like, this man's low attention span? Because I guess, like, one of the points that, like, seems to kind of be coming out is that, like, even though everyone is basically fighting for this, like, senile man's, like, attention and, you know, his, like, to, like, get him to sort of show a semblance of interest in like global affairs as he does with like his vanity projects and his beefs and everything. What feels like the challenge of Israel is, and I think this goes right back to like one of the sort of beginning points of this episode, which is they want to appear

to be normal and European and like non-threatening and like, you know, this kind of, you know, the normal democracy that everyone like should support. But their behavior in the past two years in particular have shown people who have even like kind of broadly been sort of neutral when it's come to Israel to be like, no, no, actually like they've really, really taken it like. too far or like they've really committed stuff that like is quite frankly like evil and it's very, very difficult to defend that. But you also, they're also dealing with like both Israeli society and Israeli like political culture that really, really wants more violence and like is constantly drawing attention to itself because of like its inability to kind of like shut up or like,

you know, at least refrain like from their sort of tendencies even for a short period of time to like even kind of passively acknowledge a ceasefire. And every time this happens, this just becomes like Trump's problem again. And I do wonder whether like there is some point where like Hamas kind of are much more aware of like Trump's instincts in a way that like even if Israeli society, even if like Israeli politics like is aware of it can't really sort of indulge. And I wonder whether there is an outcome where like I don't think Israel will lose per se, but I wonder whether like there is a sort of outcome where like they don't actually get what they want. I don't know. Maybe that's like a bit like maybe that's like the most optimistic reading I can sort of come up with. The issue is is that I mean there were certain instances in which

When Steve Wickcoff first became Envoy, he told Nanyahu, I think, quote, I mean, to paraphrase him, like, don't fuck this up. It was very like straightforward and that was seen as a benefit. But then he immediately started playing the deception game with the Palestinian negotiators. There was Adam Bowler, I think was his name. He was talking to CNN about how Hamas actually kind of a reasonable guys. And then he turned out to be the main party in deceiving Hamas into letting Eden Alexander go and then started talking about how Hamas needs to release all these hostages and then like talking like a super villain in his communications with them essentially. Trump is different because he's not young and he's, I mean, like literally

his mental faculties are declining. Like he can't keep a consistent perspective like Whitkoff and Boler and all these different people have. I mean, Hamas has gotten a little bit better at this. The reason why the ceasefire even came to pass was because they found a way to word their response so brilliantly that it made Trump feel good while also not committing to a Tony Blair-led government. If they can get more direct messages like that to Trump, that may be beneficial to it. But Trump is surrounded by tons of pro-Israel figures who are much smarter than him and who are much more like coherently minded than him and will always have the last word with them. It may get into his mind occasionally when he sees that

nice fetch from Hamas, being like, ah, I guess I should go along with this. But the next day, they have, you know, Kushner comes back, Whitkoff comes back, any number of different purists when people come back, and then they can guide it back onto the rails. And I mean, I want to go

back to, just as we sort of come to the end here today, I want to go back to something November said on our episode with Eleanor Penny, which a couple weeks ago, that was like, sort of covered some, like, related ground to this one, which was, Nova, you said, this that you understand Israel as right now the shop window of the rise of global fascism. Yeah, sure. Right? Is like these are the shock troops. This is what they want to be doing. When the Samud flotilla

comes in, this is like they're acting out the fantasies of doing it to all the people who all the global sort of Facebook radicalized fascists all want to be doing. And it's like, I think that the idea that they've run too far out ahead of this thing is probably unfortunately overly optimistic. I think they are the vanguard. Yeah, well, I mean, I think it's an example, right, of time and again we've seen. I mentioned the ability to get whatever you want out of particularly American politicians by virtue of constant angry dissatisfaction and the combination of that and ignoring them and doing whatever you want and just kind of trying their patience over and over again. I, I kind of suspect that that's going to continue to be an effective political strategy. And you just keep

eroding things that would stop you and yeah makes me very depressed yeah you keep eroding things like for example the post-World War II global system of institutionalized cooperation yeah well because ultimately ultimately like yes there is a lot of like positive action in the sense of like stuff that needs to be done in order to keep Israel and like fighting the kind of wars and could you know perpetrating the genocides that it wants to perpetrate. Like, they have to be shipped the weapons. But some of that is so baked in that ultimately you can kind of view it the other way, where the only thing stopping them is the whim of one elderly pedophile.

God, this, this shit sucks, man. Comedy podcast. Like, I hate, I hate, it's, it's so, I said, I said this before, but it's so, I was thinking about the only train the other day. We are just ruled by syphytic morons. And we've been ruled by syphytic morons at least here in America since I was in high school. Like, that's crazy that we're still at this. So we don't have, even like a, I don't know if I take like a mind functioning fascist.

But like, I do remember a time in which the president could form like complete sentences. It's not outside of my memory. You know, they had like a consistent political line that didn't rely on like who talked to them last and hoping that they just stick with it. Like, God, man, what a fucking terrible way to live. I think, I think for next episode, I found a startup that, uh, sells a carbon dioxide inhaler as like a neutropic. Maybe we should talk about that at the beginning of the next episode. Hey, kids, do you want to get smarter?

Try to try the CO2 inhalers. Just like wrap your lips around the exhaust pipe in the car. Just for a while. It's going to make you feel great. You don't need these fancy gadgets? There's a button that you can press in your car dashboard that gives you the same thing. What if you own a Tesla, Seamus? Noss is now woke, right?

And it's like for pussies. And so you need to like, you know, you need like a new thing. Yeah. The company's called Carbogenetics. Oh, great. That's cool. Actually, do you want to take another like five minutes and just run through Carbogenetics? I need this.

I need. I want to understand. I want to understand. All right. Okay. All right. Carbogenetics. CO2 inhaler.

Supercharged your body with the power of carbon dioxide. oxygenate your cells improve your health by breathing CO2 and rich air well the thing is you're going to want more oxygen so the oxygen demand in your tissues is going to be it's important to get that up right

so apparently it's like what it does is you're breathing in it's got it and it is it costs thousands of dollars they take a firm which is like the American version of Klarna and they're like no it simulates apparently it's

simulates the effects of box breathing, except in this case, you can accidentally do too much and be harmed. You can simulate the beneficial mental and emotional effects of smoke inhalation. Well, I mean, listen, ultimately, when you consider it, you don't get much more relaxed than when you're dead. True. Build CO2 tolerance for resilience. The CO2 inhaler isn't just a quick fix. It's a training ground for your lungs. Lungs gym. You may call it a pack of cigarettes. but I call it lung gym. So building your CO2 tolerance into a superpower that rewires

how you perform and feel. Over time, regular sessions teach your body to handle higher CO2 levels with ease, letting you hold your breath for longer and stay cool under pressure. So it's like you're basically doing homeopathic training

for smoke inhalation and getting really good at smoke inhalation. You start with a gentle 1 to 2% dose, then you gradually climb to 7%. and watch your dirt skyrocket. Hold on a second. Hold on a second. That particular mixture of carbon dioxide and oxygen called carbogen, I think it's like 5%

is notorious for causing extreme anxiety. Like, that's the bit of which you can, you can pitch it so that, like, you can breathe in it, but it still trips all of your, like, I am suffocating reflexes. So I'm not thrilled about that having really any applications. well it's fortunately this is only being sold to like biohackers and tech pros so basically what's going to happen is like maybe that's what happens all the people who are working on aWS on the day of recording they all did like a little bit too much garbage and freaked out and unplugged all the servers yeah i i'm just i'm just reading i'm just reading about this and it seems like a really really really bad idea um well they say who's it for it's for everyone who's ready to to thrive. For example, the worn out warrior recharge when life leaves you drained. We're going to partially suffocate. We're going to dry waterboard a bunch of troops of PTSD. Yeah, they're going to, they love when you do that. The fitness fanatic push limits and recover like a pro. The stressed

soul. Find peace in a hectic world. That sounds like it's for dying. Find peace in a hectic world if your soul is stressed. I think they advertise the suicide pills and children of men like that. Just like a suicide pill that it's like advertises itself on the basis of you will have a horrible time and you're going to be scared the whole time you're dying. So the brainiac, stay sharp for every task or test again, like sharp in the sense that you think you're suffocating. The sleepless, drift off easy. Uh-huh. And wake up refreshed. Or the everyday optimizer, feel your best every day.

Frequently ask questions, is it safe? Yes, it is 100% safe. It uses beverage grade CO2. I don't think that's. the problem. Like, it's just like drinking a Coke. Is that the idea? Yeah, it's like, what if, what if you were dry waterboarded with only the bubbles in Coke?

Oh, wow. That's something I, what happened to just smoking? Why is this necessary? Just take vitamin. What the fuck is this mean? If I googled this, there's a suicide hotline show up. Yeah, I'm on the Aeroid Trip Reports thing for Carvagen. Um, I are passing out in slow motion, uh, near death.

question mark, a carvergium experience gone awry? So the other frequently asked question after, is it safe? And they're like, yes, it uses beverage grade CO2. I assume that's the vector of safety we're talking about. The next one down is, will it cure my condition? And then they say, it's not a cure. It's a performance in wellness booster. This device isn't tested for specific diseases.

Ask your doctor for medical needs. Then what's it feel like? A subtle warmth with deeper breaths. Some feel a mild tingle is blood-froll. ramps up, then pure clarity and perfect calm. Again, sounds like it's something to kill yourself with. Don't wait. Claim yours before they're gone.

And this, okay, before we move on, the other really funny thing is they're like, okay, yeah, look, we have the CO2 inhaler. But what about someone who wants a, what can only be described as the Carbogen Vacube experience? Uh-huh. Is that, is that what they do in like Berlin's sex clothes? they have like This would be irresponsible for a Berlin Sax Club

I Concerned about my condition The friend administering the gas Removed the mask around what would have been Breath Thirsty I had been thrashing about In a manner described to me later As being somewhat seizure-like

When the mask came off My lips were pressed together And turning blue from lack of oxygen So basically what they sell is Look the mask That's too easy to remove What if you got into an entire suit with a helmet that's slowly filled with garbage in.

I'm looking, Riley just sent me the video and this is, this is a fetish object. This is an inflation fetish object. This is, this is not met for your misconception. This is someone, there are,

there are some kink applications here. There's something, this is not made for, this is for sex. This cannot be made for anything other than, other than, yeah. I'm looking at this environment.

It's just like, Okay, wait, hold on, hold on. There's a great movie called The Yes, Men Save the World. And in that, at the very end, they're doing a fake presentation to investors about, like, giant inflatable orb suits. And they show a video of all these people, like, after global warming has flooded the world, they can all join together in these inflatable or suits and then, like, take on the world anew. It's like, this is what they look like, the fake suits. And they're going to kill you. So, why is tissue oxygenation and perfusion important?

Well, if you wear the carbogen fucking vacuum. If you wear the carbogen gimp suit, yeah. Yeah. If you wear the carbogen gimp suit and then also do, I guess, a form of breathplay that kills you. Yeah. Yeah. They say you actually lower hypoxia and increase the use of oxygen within the cell. So it's like, hey, we're by forcing you to not die.

Just like, yeah, just stretch that oxygen, you know? Really make sure it get. That's incredibly super. And you know how you can prove that like oxygen deprivation is bad for you? It's because if you deprive someone of oxygen for long enough, they fucking die. Well, you might say it's pseudoscientific, but they also say carbogen products have been talked about in such podcasts as how to beat cancer with Cancer Whisperer Dr. Q. And now trash future.

I'm going to keep reading here. My lungs still ate from the experience and there was a horrible stabbing pain in them when I coughed. diminished over a couple of days about 30 to 60 minutes after the experience I also became aware that my tongue hurt and a few hours later when I looked in the mirror I noticed what looked like a large bloody cold sore I may have bitten my tongue

when I was banging around or perhaps Carvagen's alteration of the acid alkaline levels of my blood contributes to my getting a cold sore yeah, hey maybe maybe it could be that side effect may include all of that maybe getting a cold sore

maybe banging around in a seizure like way and biting through your tongue and sinosis of the lips, you know? Yeah. Sounds like a good time Yeah. I mean, well I wouldn't recommend this. I wouldn't recommend this to people who are not doing this for sex reasons and I wouldn't really recommend this

people who are either. You should be much safer when you are having sex. Yes. I really recommend that. Doing unsafe sex which is not not wearing protection, but actually just putting

myself in the breathplace suit. Don't kill yourself during sex. I can't stress that enough. I'm trying my best not to. Jesus. Or at least don't use some kind of a pseudo-scientific, new tropic

fucking carbogen suit. Do it in a cool way like the guy from Kill Bill did. If you die in a sex accident, it should be a way that's like a fun story rather than a depressing, embarrassing story, you know? It shouldn't be this kind of

embarrassing. It should be like, Yeah, you'd never really catch David Caratine in one of these. This was dignified. Like some kind, just zip me into the suit like some kind of gooner astronaut. We choose to jerk ourselves off while choking ourselves and the other things in this decade, not because they are easy, but because we are hard. All right. You know what I'm going to say?

Pretty glad, pretty glad I found the Carbgenetics.com. We went long today, but I think we all needed to hear from Carbgenetics.com. So thank you for your patience, everybody. Yeah, and thanks to them for sponsoring this show. We were all sitting in the Carbigen suits, all of us, including Seamus, who has shipped one. And then I forgot to turn on the carbogen until like an hour and four minutes approximately. It was just a sort of quite straightforward, relatively serious interview until I was like, oh shit, the carbage.

I got to turn that on. Anyway, look, Seamus, as always, it's a pleasure to talk to you. Shame about what we often have to talk to you about. But where can people find a little more Seamus, including hearing you talk on an RSS feed that you control? Yes, they can go to Seamus-Hifeng Malikfzeli.com for my substack where I write about all things political in the Middle East, and for turbulence, you can go to turbulencepod.substack.com, where we will be dropping the first episodes on October 28th, eight days out from this recording. Whenever you're recording where you were listening to this, it might be different. I don't know. It's recorded on

Monday, October 20th. It'll be released at some point on Tuesday, October 21st. So do the calendar math appropriately. Maybe you're, hey, maybe you started listening at some point in like December and you have like a long drive and you're listening to this in December. Guess what? Turbulance is out and it's been out for a while. So you probably got a lot of episodes to catch up on. I think that's a great thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So yay. Hello to the future. How's life? Have we fixed everything?

Is garbage in everywhere? All right. All right. Look, Seamus, thanks a lot for coming on. Thank you to my co-host for putting up with a slightly longer episode today. Of course. And thank you to the listeners for listening to us. You can also find us on Patreon. You know all about it. It's Patreon. It's Trash Future.

It's 4 pounds 50 a month. another episode every week. Second episode this week. A couple of things, actually. I'm still kind of working it out. So, you know, stay tuned. But we'll see you there. Bye, everybody.

Bye. Bye.