TRASHFUTURE - The Devon Report feat. Kill James Bond

Episode Date: April 16, 2024

For this week’s free one, Riley, Hussein, and November are joined by Abigail Thorn and Devon from the Kill James Bond podcast to discuss the recent Cass Review into trans kids’ healthcare in the NHS. Well, call it a review, but it’s actually just top cover for conversion therapy and state-sponsored cruelty against all medical advice. We also discuss career weirdo Brian Rose’s decision to once again run for London Mayor, and examine some recent events in Palestine in which a thing happened involving some drones. It’s a heavy episode but it’s also… a fun one? Somehow? If you want access to our Patreon bonus episodes, early releases of free episodes, and powerful Discord server, sign up here: https://www.patreon.com/trashfuture *STREAM ALERT* Check out our Twitch stream, which airs 9-11 pm UK time every Monday and Thursday, at the following link: https://www.twitch.tv/trashfuturepodcast *MILO IN AUSTRALIA ALERT* Check out Milo’s upcoming Australian tour shows here: www.linktr.ee/Miloontour *WEB DESIGN ALERT* Tom Allen is a friend of the show (and the designer behind our website). If you need web design help, reach out to him here:  https://www.tomallen.media/ Trashfuture are: Riley (@raaleh), Milo (@Milo_Edwards), Hussein (@HKesvani), Nate (@inthesedeserts), and November (@postoctobrist)

Hello everybody and welcome to this free episode of TF. It is the free one. That's right. It was working on the voice work. Good Lord. Australia's really changed Milo. It is Riley, Hussein and November with the entire cast of Kill James Bond, Devin, Abby and November. How's it going everybody?

G'day cunts. Thank you so much for having me on. A returning champion, you know, it's always a pleasure. That's right. Mostly I'm just grateful to November for advising me, you know. We're all grateful for November. She really found us all, you know. Oh, no problem. This is the first instance of this ever happening on radio, as someone talking to themselves.

No, we're going to get into it. We are doing this free episode all about the cast report on making it illegal to be trans, on how apparently all of Britain is to be prescribed- as I understand it, the cast report prescribes all of Britain a cootie shot, essentially. Yes. We declare the hour of transgender wrath, the hour of transgender wrath begins now and does not end. Absolutely.

The thing is, right, everyone in Britain will now be issued a kind of like, girl toy or a boy toy, like a Happy Meal? And you will be legally obligated to play with that toy. Yeah. Correct. That's right. But, we're gonna get to that after a little bit of news. Yeah, and then me driving this fire truck I got around.

Hey, wait a minute! Throughout the whole recording, by the way, if you can hear November just going, brr brr brr brr, beep beep, around! It's fine, don't worry about it. The fire truck, I'm seeing this now, it has a little bow on it? Yeah, sort of confusing there. What are you, non-binary? You know what else doesn't have any gender is fire.

That's right. The people were astounded by her doctrine. Few of the elements do. Oh, some do. Some do. I won't say which. I feel like Earth is mask. Yeah.

I think so. Mother Earth. Air is definitely femme. Hydrogen is definitely femme. Anyway, god, I hope... what happened in the world, Riley? Look, I'm gonna take us in. Because the most important local election of our lifetimes is coming up on May the 2nd. This is the thing, right?

You might think that based on everyone in Britain being binarily gendered by force, this would be quite a depressing, like, angry episode, but... This is the election that decides what gender we all get to be, right? Yes. Yes, yeah, and this, we have some good news! Not only bad things are happening in Britain. But it's so important that you get out and you rock the vote, I'm inventing that right now, rock the vote, on May 2nd, if you live in London, because the opportunity for enormous political change is now upon us.

We said we would never endorse another politician after Corbyn. Right. No. We were wrong, we were wrong about that, and we found another one. Because our biggest, most special boy has strapped on his ombre suit, a thing I didn't know existed, has like put on the widest tie in existence. RILEY He has invented the quadruple Windsor, just

for this election, just for you. ALICE There are more Windsors around that man's neck than there are in the Royal London, and he is ready to campaign. RILEY Nice. more winds around that man's neck than there are in the Royal London, and he is ready to campaign. Nice. He's the one guy that will elude Derek the Clothing Guy on Twitter. Derek. Derek the Clothing Guy.

Derek the Clothing Guy. This is the one man that Derek Guy is afraid of. Yeah, that's right. This is a guy who has invented a tie knot called the, like the 50 in hand because it is, that's right. Electropolitics is back. We're now fully in, in again. We're ready to get our hearts broken again. Brian Rose has announced his candidacy for mayor of London. I fucking knew it would be Brian Rose.

Yeah. Well, here's the thing. He's our biggest boy. A lot of, a lot of politicians, right. these days are infirm of purpose, and like, so many people will be like, if you don't like this policy, I have others. And I think in these times, it's very estimable that we have a politician who is like, my policies are batshit, they will remain batshit the whole time. I'm running on the same platform, and that platform, it should be illegal for YouTube to discipline me in any way. Yes.

He's the piss guy, right? He drank his own piss? It's illegal to say that when he gets made mayor. But he... I'm pretty sure he posted about drinking his own piss. Just double check. Oh he did, but get your licks in saying that now. On the 15th of April, I commented that Brian Rose had drank his own piss. Just double check. Oh he did, but get your licks in saying that now. On the 15th of April, I commented that Brian Rose had drank his own piss.

I now accept that that was a sort of like, unmerited and offensive comment. On information and belief, I heard that he drank his own piss, I heard it alleged. Just now actually. I've had credible accusations. Here's the thing though, here's the thing. Multiple now in fact. All right, Prince. We've all seen like the trailers for the three body problem, right?

We know what's going to happen is Abby is going to then at a, at a Brian Rose struggle session, Abby is going to have to wear the big hat and be like, I alleged that Brian Rose drank piss on April 15th. It's essential. Actually I have a picture here of him drinking his own piss. Wow, okay. I just hold that up to look, my man did it.

Okay, well he is... Yeah. Okay? Okay. We did it and he's still alive, and his skin's looking like, fairly fresh, so maybe we were wrong. And he's gonna be mayor of London, so... He looks huge!

He's healthy, you know? Yeah. I can't say he's happy, he seems very miserable, but you should vote for him, for mayor of London, and see what happens. I can't say he's happy, he seems very miserable, but you should vote for him, Mayor of London. And see what happens. ALICE Yeah, last I recall, his policies were something about social media and how it should be illegal to ban him from it. And also crypto?

Is that still a thing? ZACH Yes, he wants to make London the centre of Web 3. Again. ALICE Okay. ZACH He wants to give every household in London some crypto as well, right? I mean, this shit, okay.

Oh my god, alright, this guy is living the worst possible existence, cause you google his name and his Wikipedia article is Brian Rose Brackets Podcaster. Oooh. That's rough for anyone, you know? Devastating. I would hate that if that happened to me. It's the reason why I changed my name to November, is because, you know, you avoid the disambiguation. You've got, that's what it is.

It's like racehorses. You can't have two podcasters named the same thing. Cause you're like, look, oh, I'm against Brian Rose. I love censorship on YouTube and I'm afraid of like, you know, the free market. You're like, no, he's going to come and he's going to be like, I'm just going to give you a hundred pounds of a token called London. That's going to be like fun money that everyone's going to be able to spend in London. Cool. What are we going to spend our Brian Rose bucks on? You know, you know what, like, if you're voting for Brian Rose as well, finally, he's willing to use the power that the, well, he's confused actually, because

it's the Lord Mayor of the City of London that has the power to reinstate YouTube channels. That's from like the 1300s. It's not the Mayor of Metropolitan London. Ancient prerogative, yeah. But the thing is, that prerogative only exists so long as he doesn't use it. If he actually does make them unban someone from YouTube, it triggers a whole constitutional crisis. So.

Yeah, yeah. It's sort of a gentleman's agreement at that point. He says, as your next mayor, I will fight for digital freedom of speech and take on our government politicians in Silicon Valley. And it's like, oh, you know, Susan Hall, she's like, yeah, she's gonna take away ULEZ, but Brian Rose is gonna take away Ulez and do that. Sadiq Khan is going to like, you know, he's going to enrich like, you know, four particularly micro targeted minorities. Brian Rose, he's going to enrich everybody with London Fun Bucks.

Yeah, with a hundred bucks of monopoly money. Look, here's the thing, right? Brian Rose, under Brian Rose, we'll all have so much piss that we'll have to drink it. But under Sadiq Khan, no one will be allowed to piss. That's true. And that's the difference. That's what you're voting for. If you're in London and you've got to vote for the election, you've got to vote for whether you want to piss. That's right. Put that on the billboards.

As if there weren't enough restrictions on us doing that already. I guess I do want to piss. Like I'm gonna wanna piss. Like, I don't need to now, but I imagine I will between 2024 and like 2028, you know? I mean, does he wanna drink mine? Cause now the cast reviews come out, I don't know where I'm supposed to put it. The other thing is, right, this is our first opportunity to get- Brian Roos, don't answer that. Well, not our first opportunity. This is our only opportunity to get another Eric Adams.

But for London. Like, imagine. London, London is a large city, things happen here, and the mayor is generally required to comment on them. What if fucking, like, shit happens and we have to wheel out the guy whose answer is crypto to, like, a serious crisis? I can't wait, personally. I can't wait to see what kind of nationalities Brian Rose claims to be, if he becomes mayor

of London. Also Croatian, weirdly. Yeah. Look, the problem is- In many ways London is the Zagreb of the United Kingdom. Isn't he Canadian? He's American born. He's American.

Yeah, sort of least Croatian Canadian. What the fuck does that mean? The problem is, right, Eric Adams was able to become mayor of New York because everyone knows that Bill de Bungalow managed to piss off the NYPD, which is his only job to not do, and so basically what has to happen is that we need to get Brian Rose in and against the Labour Party, we need to get entryism, but for Brian Rose, to make him the Labour candidate. I will say this, is that the NYPD do make the Met look bitch-made, in that the Met have

not been able to kick Sadiq out of office despite wanting to very badly. They want to so badly. And yeah, no dice. But like, I think that they could have a very close relationship with Brian Rose, and god only knows what would result. Oh, they would love him! Look, okay, so... We're gonna put all of the police helmet on the blockchain.

So look, I think this is, I think our endorsement is now pretty clear. Yeah. We're back on electoralism. It's the only way forward. In and against the state, Brian Rose, let's go. Yeah, we'd never do this again, but we, you see an opportunity like this come up once in a generation. Yeah. Long march through the institutions. Brian Rose, the long piss through the institutions of his digesters. Thames water, you know, they're struggling. What if instead all of that piss was shipped directly to the mayor of London? That would ease up the congestion in the sewers massively. Yeah. Why fix the creaking Victorian infrastructure where we can just have a podcaster, have a go and also enjoy the piss.

Yes! That's basically my campaign actually for one minute. Just let me have a go. Tarik Gai ruins his face off to reveal the Burgheim piss guy. Trust me all along. And now all of the toilets of London redirect to the mail's office. Second parallel system. Listen, if it works, I'm not gonna question it too much.

Why would I explain my masterstroke if there was still a chance of you stopping it? I've been drinking piss for 30 minutes! I became mea 30 minutes ago. Alright, alright, alright. Also I wanna talk about one more news item before we get to our core, our core report. Did anything interesting happen this weekend? Well, it did and then it didn't. So I'm sure everyone listening to this knows, but let's just lay it out.

Israel attacked an Iranian consulate in Syria, killing six people, including one relatively highly ranked IRGC general. Side note, we're going to talk about this in more detail with Seamus, who else, in next week's time. So more things will develop, but just, I want to talk a little bit about like, first reactions and more importantly, like, what have British politicians and pundits been saying about it? God yes.

Listener, if you've recently heard the four minute warning, that's why. Yeah. So basically this happened, and Iran said, okay, well, we're gonna have to do something, because we can't do nothing. Yeah, you have finally pushed us into a position where after our like, 16 previous final warnings, we are going to have to do something. Yeah. Iran got on the blower to the US and was like, for the love of god, you have to do a ceasefire

or we will have to respond to this, because everyone is fuming. And did they do a ceasefire? They did not. No. Which means, Iran was forced into the position of having to respond to this, militarily. Essentially what Iran did, like, November and I were talking about this beforehand... A beautiful piece of theatre, is how I would describe it. Yeah, this is so good. You have to be so good at war to launch like, 200 drones and a shitload of ballistic missiles at a country, and kill

as yet no people. Like, on purpose. Basically, to put, to push their missile defenses to their absolute limit and then stop right there. Yeah, to be like, hey, we've perfectly mapped your air defense, the next one could be ten times worse. They didn't even need to put warheads on some of these shit, man. They could have put like an old washing machine on one of them and just like dumped it in

downtown Tel Aviv. RILEY Yeah, I mean, they sent out like 200 drones and something like nine impactives, right, like, they could have saved a massive amount of money for just not putting any warheads on these things. Like, this... Yeah. On the other hand, because these all got intercepted by Israel, by us, by the US, by France, by Jordan, because we love to be in this shit, right?

We love to spend a sort of schools worth amount of money on firing an interceptor that destroys the drone with a washing machine strapped to it. And so, all of us did this, and then the US was left in this position of having to call the Israelis and be like, listen, we helped you out on this one, do not retaliate. We have the back channel with the Iranians, we're talking to them, please God do not do anything about this. And we're left in this position where the only person who doesn't want to let this go is Netanyahu. And in that respect, it strikes me as kind of a well-played piece

of regional power interest, right? It's like, everybody, everybody in the world is on the side of just fucking drop it, apart from these freaks in the Israeli war cabinet who are like, we gotta nuke Tehran about this. RILEY Yeah. And then, like, no, the freaks in the Israeli war cabinet, and then like, every British columnist, essentially. Yeah, Holden Bloodfeast, publican, 118 years old. Really, yeah.

To Athena Ghastly War Crimes, is just like, yeah, bomb them all, glass it. Again, right, like, if all you know how to do is manufacture consent for escalation and war, then responding to, I think, the second successful escalation to de-escalate maybe ever, where the first one was also done by Iran... ALICE Are we suggesting that Iran has like a kind of Civilization VI power, where they're the only country that can successfully escalate in a de-escalatory manner? ZACH Or more accurately, that.

NICOLAS Attack and receive! Yeah! That's how it goes, baby! ZACH Amazing! ZACH Yeah, the only country that has managed Attack and receive. Yeah. That's how it goes, baby. Amazing. Yeah. The only country that has managed to pull off the attack and receive, where again, you can even see it when I talk about the British response, right? Anyone who actually matters, who's actually close to power, is forced into this position

where they have to go on TV. David Cameron has to go on TV and say, we condemn what Iran did, and then get asked a question, a quite simple question of, well, what would you do if your consulate was flattened? And they'd be like, well, I guess we would respond also in a strong way. I'd like this interview to be over now, please, we all know what happened, please let me go. ALICE It's sort of this thing where Israel and Hezbollah's strategy of being the adults in the room, right, has, I think, paid off, although it's kind of too early to say, right?

It's always been frustrating, I think, for a lot of people in those constituencies to see Nasrallah, or whoever, come out and do the Star Wars CGI announcement of the speech, and then the speech is like, if you ignore my 16th consecutive final warning I will be forced to consider thinking about further steps." You know, meanwhile the Houthis are sort of establishing a no-fly zone with string. ALICE giving a speech that's just the test now on whether Biden still has a veto over Netanyahu, right? You lose it.

Yeah, exactly, like, the US used to, and maybe now it doesn't, I don't know. Like, what the Israelis want to do is probably blood curdling, what the US want them to do is nothing, and I think the sort of compromise position is, they wait six months and then they kill like the IRGC number 16. Like, the guy in the IRGC no one really likes, you know? Mhmm. They fire a standoff weapon to destroy the IRGC's office gym. Leaving IRGC Pam bereft and in morning double taps.

I R G C gym and I R G C. They took out the entirety of IRGC Dunder Mifflin, which has led the, which has led Iran. Oh my God. What Kevin just had his big Iranian Kevin had his big pot of Sagoosh and they made him spill it. And they had to react by taking out Israeli the office in the Negev desert. I'm just, I'm turning over in my mind the image of Israeli Ricky Gervais and I'm becoming

extremely concerned. Yeah, just makes David Brent look less racist. I guess that's Seinfeld. What you're seeing here is advanced warfare, right? Like, it's sort of perverse and beautiful in its own way that, like, the way that foreign policy happens now is you send the drone that takes four hours to get there, and it does donuts over your house, trailing a kind of banner that says, the next one's for real! Yeah, and then, one billion dollars worth of countermeasures are deployed.

It's unbelievable. The Iranian drones, they were flying over, it was supposed to do a sort of Iranian Captain Tom arrangement in the sky before they all got shut down, but they got stopped. Iranian Captain Tom's actions in the Iran-Iraq war have so many question marks over them. But they can't stop. I can't believe that his daughter-in-law was forced to tear down that prayer room she built outside of his farm. We achieved something that was like the fondest dream of the founders of the UN, right, which is, instead of a war, the way that we averted one was a kind of collaborative theatre-stroke-fireworks show

paid for by Iran, Israel, the US, us, France, and Jordan. Yeah, I'm actually pitching a movie to Iran? At the moment? I mean, to be fair, you probably would get more funding. Like, you probably have better chance of funding in Iran than you would in there. I'm not even joking. No, they seem like they're on the up and up. Got a very good movie industry and they are funding like interesting stuff. Yeah, absolutely. Okay. Well, I can rewrite. I could set it anywhere. Yeah. A separation too, but you could do lift two in Iran for sure. I'll revert.

I'll be Iranian Devon. I'm happy to do that. That sounds fantastic. I can't believe that Israel destroyed Iranian kill James Bond. I'm just updating the big like Devon reversion countdown that I keep in my home. Stuck for that. I'm not doing it, man. You can't, you can't get me. I know the whole Shahada. That's the way I, so I can't be tricked to the same thing. I have it memorized. Prove you know the Shahada. And also, just in case something happens on the road, I can say that shit fast as well.

The most lazy thing of Islam, you just leave it there. To not do it. The smartest time to revert is 360 days to Ramadan. I'm looking directly at my Quran over there, on the shelf in my room. It's right next to my Gundam. Only a matter of time. I wanted to say one other thing though, as well, which is, what is the likely UK domestic response?

Which is, again, columnist saying Israel now should try and invade Iran, to which I would say how. With who? They better have. I fucking want them to! Let's see! Okay, sure, and I'll just try and hike to the fucking moon, shall I? Yeah.

Good luck. Yeah yeah. We'll talk about this more with Seamus, but like, I dunno, if the US Navy tries to invade Iran, all it will do is create a- it will turn the Strait of Hormuz into like a lake, basically. Yeah, yeah. I mean, here's the thing, I do take the position that if you went, if the US particularly was like, we must invade Iran, regime change in Iran, or nothing else, immediately, they

could do it with like a World War I level of casualties and probably having to use nuclear weapons, and then, you know, fucking China just walks into Taiwan and the fabs get detonated and all computer costs 50 trillion dollars. I love computer. I use it for so much. Going on the computer is fucking hate computer. But, sorry, what I was saying, aside from- Premier Xi, please, invade Taiwan and make it so we don't have to go on the computer anymore.

Make it so we can have class outside. It's the only job in Britain is going on the computer. That's true. What I would say, we're going to talk about the actual like ins and outs of what happens next with Seamus, but the response here has been columnist clamoring for invasion or saying like Iran should never have reacted because Israel destroyed a terrorist. Basically like the most hawkish possible things you can say because they only know how to do one thing. That's like Andrew Neil's doing this, a lot of people who want Labour safe seats are doing

this. ALICE No one has ever loved nukes or conflict as much as the Labour right. Like, ever. It's like, you go to the kind of war-likers paradise, and it's like, a bunch of Japanese irredentists, various European fascists, and also four briefcase guys who came out of Labour students? Just chilling with Douglas MacArthur. LILLEE Beyond that, as well, the demand is for the IRGC to be made a prescribed organisation in the UK. So, I'm afraid November, a bunch

of your medals have been made illegal. ALICE I just bought these things. LIAM Shit! ALICE I mean, this is a stupid idea for any number Bunch of your medals have been made illegal. I just bought these things. Shit. I mean, this is a stupid idea for any number of reasons, not least because the IRGC is a branch of a military, you can get drafted into it, you can get conscripted into it. You can be made its gym. Yes! Legitimately, they can just take you off the street and be like you were doing the photocopying

in the Iranian Revolutionary Guards' Dundamiflun, now. And then you get killed by an Israeli washing machine. I've lost track of this bit on a sort of chronic level. Look, we're going to talk about this more with Seamus in more detail, but in terms of other pieces of choreographed political theatre, what else has come out in the last couple of weeks? A certain report, perhaps? Oh boy. Time for a jarring shift in tone.

We're going to talk about the cast report, right? So we can say, before we just talk about the things that it says, I think it's important to contextualize what it is and what it seeks to do. I'll just lay my marker down for this now, the things that it says, it's not that they don't matter, but that's not the most important thing about it. 100%. Essentially, the test that the cast report is making is, is it possible to get something that is, like, nakedly bigoted, terribly sourced, completely unsupported by evidence through the government, like LGBT organisations and charities and stuff, and

to an extent the public, right? And if it is, then it doesn't matter what's in it so much as it matters what's in the next one. Fundamentally, this is the same principle as the Islamic Republic of Iran's strikes on Israel. We're just testing the defences here. Yeah, Hilary Cass has dropped a washing machine on our lawn, and now our air defence is perfectly mapped, yeah.

In that regard, it's quite similar to a lot of reports made under this particular government, like the Sewer report, in that it exists not to actually be read, but in order to be cited in service of authoritarian aims. In this case the aim being to remove healthcare from trans people. Yes, because if you look at the actual methodology of it, you know, this thing took four years to write and it is incredibly shoddy, like it wouldn't pass it like an undergraduate science degree. And we will talk about the degree, like the insane shit that's in it, but it's, I think it's important to mention up top that the reason it doesn't make sense is because it

isn't supposed to. Yes. It is, it is deliberately trying to produce ignorance. That is its function. Yeah. And I mean, if you want to talk about the production of ignorance, I mean, I think that we can say sort of up top, how I read the CAS report anyways, was that it says, we don't wanna have conversion therapy, all we want to do is treat being trans as a kind of mental illness that can be cured by other

means, such as CBT or autism treatment. That's how I read it. Yes. To be fair, right, and I'm sure this is still current, was something that I experienced when I had my GIC appointments, right, like, it's something that, like, the system has absolutely not rid itself of. This idea that, like, particularly with children, but even with adults, that any GIC in this country was like, yeah, we don't care about investigating anything that's, like, else

in your life, here are your hormones, is fantasy at all, it has been. It would be nice if it, if they did work like that, but they don't. M- Quite frankly, the ultimate thing here is that this will never work because being transgender is not a medical issue. It's like being gay, it's a question of identity, it's about how you relate to yourself, how you want others to relate to you. You can do a complete transition in an afternoon by thinking really hard, if you don't want to do any medical transitioning at all. It's just that in the course of your transition you may feel that

like medical interventions need to be made to bring your your body and your presentation more in line with how you want us how you want it to be seen and medicine is just the field through which we make interventions on the human body. It's not a medical problem. It's not medicalizing it doesn't help us at all. It makes it much, much, much harder. And that's what we're going to talk about for the rest of the episode. So backing up Sally, nominally the CAS report, if you've never heard of it at all listeners, is an investigation being conducted by a lady named Hilary CAS, amongst various other crooks and rogues who we'll talk about,

into the healthcare of trans children in the UK. That's what it is nominally. In reality, it's actually an attempt to obscure many of the actual facts about trans kids' healthcare in the UK. So first of all, the Cass review completely excluded trans people from its governing board explicitly and deliberately. It placed some conversion therapy activists in charge of conducting its evidence review and also had conversion therapists on its from its governing board explicitly and deliberately. It placed some conversion therapy activists in charge of conducting its evidence review and also had conversion therapists on its advisory board. Some of those conversion therapists

met with government ministers and lobbied against a ban on conversion therapy, which is deeply worrying and also speaks against the report's independence. Hilary Kast also met with some Catholic extremists from the United States who have helped Florida's Board of Medicine dismantle trans health care with disastrous results over there. It's like DeSantis, they got fucking DeSantis people in.

They did. It's like we need winners, you know? Hilary Cass is meeting this week, Wednesday of this week, with anti-trans hate groups. The review refused to look at any evidence that was not published in English, which is an enormous amount, and any evidence that was not published in the last two years, except for one paper which used statistical fiddling to draw false inferences about the effects of HRT. She did cite some right-wing YouTube videos though. It also cites one paper in support of its points, which its own author has explicitly said, do not use my research to support this point,

it doesn't work. And the standard of evidence that they apply to pro-trans research is significantly higher than the standard of evidence they apply to any anti-trans quote unquote research. Speaking of YouTubers, by the way, I'm sure you all noticed this, that in the report itself they were like, ah, maybe people are becoming trans because YouTubers are telling them to. Yeah. There's so many unsupported assertions and unsourced assertions in the reports, well. I mean, the thing is, right- The influence of epic mealtime. It really does.

Yeah, bacon strips and bacon strips and estrogen and bacon strips, they slip it in like that. Well, Muscle's Glasses is quite a lot of my identity, actually. But the thing is, right, as much as we go back and forth about medicalization being harmful, it's also, like, just, it doesn't hold up even by those standards, right, like, it does not match the kind of evidence base that would be required from, like, any kind of serious medical treatment of any, any sort of, if you wanna call it a condition, anyone. And in particular, the thing that strikes me, right, was like, the sort of, why are there no double blind studies of transition?

Which is, like, an incredibly, like, sort of dense question to ask, and the answer is because it wouldn't be ethical to do that. Nor possible. Yeah, absolutely. Oh, I got the fake placebo vagina from my surges, falls off. Yeah, I'm in the control group! Oh no! Fuck!

Basically, just in summary, right, what we have is a report into trying to... It's a report that believes that tons of people are becoming trans, because, I dunno, because gender clinics give out hormones like a fucking vending machine. There's a specifically gendered version of this, because if you want to sort of reduce this down to the tough talking point that it's actually using, it's... and it says much of this verbatim, by the way. Transition used to be the province of hideous disgusting men, who we all knew who to hate, but now our beloved daughters are getting their tits cut off by the woke doctors. RILEY There's two kinds of doctors, sorry, there's

two kinds woke doctors. There's two kinds of doctors, sorry, there's two kinds of doctors. There's hormone pushing trans activists, and then there are the good doctors who are too scared of what the children in their care, to speak out for fear of being called transphobic. This was the other thing that I was gonna talk about, as far as the evidence base goes, right? Is that when you go through a GIC, one of the things that you have to be aware of is that there is a non-zero chance that the clinician you are talking to is not only contemptuous and bigoted towards you, but also about to like, leak a bunch of heavily distorted information about your case and others and the workings of it.

You say non-zero, the percentage according to the CAS review is about 24%, there are about 24% of clinicians in the UK who explicitly endorse the statement that trans children do not exist, and for some reason the review does not consider this to be what it is, which is grounds for immediate dismissal. ALICE Yeah, and they become these kind of whistleblowers and heavy air quotes into the workings of such and such clinic or whatever. But the major sticking point, right, was that, and this was the thing that Cass herself took really personally against GICs,

was that GICs would not release patient data to her, in order to, y'know, distort, right? And the thing is, what she wanted them to do was to release patient data on children, in their care, to her, an independent reviewer... Just someone. ...without those patients or their guardians' consent, or indeed knowledge, this is something, I submit, which no clinician in their right mind would ever do for any patient under any circumstances. Like, it just is incredibly...

Also, like, you can't get those guys to release any fucking data to anyone under any circumstance. They won't even release the lunch menu in the cafeteria without a six-year wait. Fucking GDPR, dude. You cannot get that information from a clinician, not the cafeteria thing, the pertinent stuff. And so what Cass does essentially, she says, look, we can't get this information, so I guess I'll just go to thoughts into things and stuff. We can't get that information. Hang on. Let me just... Okay, I've imagined some.

They didn't refuse to release that information to her because they're a bunch of like, wokes who like want to transition children. They refused to release that information because that was the last ditch of medical ethics. They have to not. They're legally required to not say yes to requests like that, they have to sign a thing when they become doctors. The fact that one of the clinics did is deeply concerning! Yes! Yes!

And in fact, that's the only advice the NHS should be getting, is the advice we've been getting for years, which is desegregate the fucking system! Why is there a separate thing that trans people have to do to get access to voluntary cosmetic surgeries? ALICE You already have general practitioners, you already have surgeons, you already have endocrinologists, why can you not connect those up without some dipshit in the middle who is leaking all of my information to a YouTuber? JUSTIN November, November, November. You're so naive. Don't you know, right, that boys play with

trucks, girls play with dolls, and then endocrinologists are exposed to a certain amount of testosterone in the womb that predisposes them to become gender endocrinologists instead of regular endocrinologists? Yeah. Holy shit, let's talk about this. But this is almost the thing, is that like, whenever any medical professional is like, well I don't know how to do this because, I don't know how to prescribe your hormones because no one ever trained me to do it, I'm like, do you not consider that a part of your continuing professional development?

Maybe? Is that not something you should seek out? RILEY Yeah, maybe look it up, dog? I dunno. SONIA Actually, my GP said that to me, and I said, that's fine, I've never taken them before. And actually a few months later he said, this has been really good, I've enjoyed doing this, you seem much better, and I said, that's fine, I've never taken them before. And actually a few months later he said, this has been really good, I've enjoyed doing this, you seem much

better, and I'm like, thanks man! That's how it should go! Do you want to avail yourself of, again, if you choose to interpret it through a medical lens, one of the most successful, least regretful sets of medical interventions we know how to make? Genuinely a lower rate of surgical regret than fucking heart transplants. Are you kidding me dude? Not that I've ever taken hormones of course. I just did this one day.

Of course. Yeah. You just close your eyes and then that was it. You thought really hard. But as a general project, the cast review is part of an attempt by conversion therapists to get ahead of a potential ban on conversion therapy by rebranding as exploratory therapists. Many of the things that it recommends amount to quote unquote exploratory therapy, which is conversion therapy and must also be banned. Several researchers have also talked about this. Anyone who tries to send you for exploratory therapy listeners, do not go.

No. Yeah, they're trying to explore the idea of what if you were cis and straight? Yeah. What if we just explored that for years? Solemnly handing you a fire truck. Play on this, motherfucker. You better look like you're enjoying it. The doll is electrified?

Why a mother? Earlier, Devon, you raised the point, why not just desegregate? And I think it's also important to bear in mind that the CAS report is part of a larger attempt by senior NHS managers, especially Jeremy Glide, John Stewart and James Palmer, who were all heads of specialized commissioning and their colleagues to avoid facing consequences for their... Sorry, this is difficult to talk about because it's emotional. The NHS has been told to desegregate since at least 2013. In particular, in 2018, patients demanded desegregation in a consultation that came to the desk of Mr. Jeremy Glide. Jeremy Glide refused to desegregate the system and I have to be careful what I say legally. Since then, at least five people have died on the

waiting list. At least two of them have been children. It is my opinion that NHS senior managers do not want to talk about desegregation, because if they did, they would have to acknowledge the fact that they were told to do it years ago. And if they had done it years ago, there are at least five people who would still be here. I know several. Well, just... ALICE Yeah, whom among us, right? The gender identity clinic system demands a great deal from you, in return for worse than nothing, often. There are a lot of ways in which this is much worse if you're a child, I understand.

And this is the thing, right? I'm concerned about this, I'm troubled by this, I've been sort of like, struggling with this on a couple of levels, right, because on the one hand there's the kind of broader slippery slope thing that's happening here, where it's like I'm not so worried about this as I am about the next thing, whatever the next thing is, right, and the number of trans children being treated, and even being weighted to be treated at GICs, contra CAS remarkably low. Like if you look at the actual treatment numbers it's like under a hundred. Which should have been under fucking subheading, to be like this epidemic that's taking our

kids away as like under a hundred kids. But on the other hand I also know how incredibly intense and devastating that process is for all of those people and their families. And yeah, it is absolutely social murder, and it's something that, like, now, both parties, including the one who is, like, crushingly likely to win the election with a bath party majority, are like, yeah, this report seems good, seems cool, uh, we'll definitely implement it wholesale. Fucking Stonewall!

Like, because, again, due to the fact that this is a ratfucking, right, one of the traditional things that you do with that is you publish a 393 page report at like 4 in the morning and then demand a comment instantly, and so a lot of organizations were successfully bushwacked by this and were like, well, we'll read it with concern and then come back with a statement. Stonewall went the extra mile to be like, yeah, this seems like it seriously addresses some, like, real issues. ALICE Fuck Stonewall, man. SONIA Yeah, cause the summary that gets sent out

with it is like, we want to improve things and make things better, and it's like, okay, well, like, cautious support on that. And then you read it and it's like, one of the recommendations they make is that nobody under 25 should be allowed access to gender-affirming care. Yeah, because the next thing down the sort of slippery slope is the sort of whatever legal challenge arises to like, Gillick competence. The idea that like, a competent person is able to make decisions about their own medical care under a certain... a competent person is able to make decisions about their own medical care. Which by the way means that no more abortion and no more contraceptives and blood transfusions as well for kids. All of that just gone. That becomes a matter of your parents saying so,

not you having control of your own body. Again, it just creates a different set of rules for a different group. Like this is like how for years in this country, gay men had an age of consent of 18 as opposed to 16 for normals. It's just the same again. It's like an 18 year old can drive, can get married, have a child, join the army, kill people in war, die in war, have a huge number of other voluntary cosmetic surgeries. But a transgender person is somehow

so uniquely unqualified to make decisions about themselves. So like, I get, so uniquely unable to comprehend object permanence that they shouldn't be able to do this up until age 25. And listeners, if you are particularly well off, you might be thinking, well, I guess, you know, we could just go private after all. Wouldn't that be an option? Well, yes, if you can afford it, it is. However, one of the other things the report recommends is that the NHS should consider punishing trans people who go privately by refusing to ever engage with them about any kind of gender care ever again.

How would I tell the difference? Yeah. So if you do go private, then it's like, oh, well you want your GP to monitor your blood tests? Oh no, sorry. Perhaps even, oh, I took my child to get private puberty blockers because I didn't want them to get conversion therapy? Well perhaps that will be considered a safeguarding issue now. And the other issue is also like private health care in the UK isn't really like, you can't really...

Oh, actually, I mean, I have like some limited experience from like family members and stuff, but you can't like have full private health care. Like At some point you do actually have to engage with the NHS. And so it's like you can get your, you know, you can sort of get your gender affirming surgery and care in that privately, but at some point you do actually have to engage with the NHS because that's how the system is structured. And so for the very basic things that as a human being you need to like, you know, survive, or at least like it would be good to have, like you're sort of essentially blocked off from those services. So it's like very much that as a human being you need to survive, or at least it would be good to have. You're essentially blocked off from those services. So it's very much a threat to your sense.

This whole thing, I think, listening to this, it strikes me as this is kind of just an attack on a trans person's right to exist as a person. And whatever way you approach this, there's no getting around that actually what this speaks to is the vengeful tendency of one where it's just like, if you were a trans person you just should not exist at all. Even the idea of like, oh, because I was listening to one of the BBC radios the day after it came out, and the argument that was being made by the reasonable person that they had brought out was like, well, you know, if, if like, you know, at 25, like, you know, you are sort of considered to like, you're in a much better position

to make like an autonomous system, which is like bullshit in and of itself as we, as we've spoken about. But at the same time, it's kind of like, well, at that point, you know, you're, well, I mean, it's like, you know, your ability to just sort of enjoy yourself as like a young person and have like the opportunities that you only really get in youth and to sort of have that without the stresses and without the kind of like real, you know, I think as you alluded to the, yeah, there's like the right to exist as a person. Like, fundamentally what this speaks to is just this desire to remove that right from anyone who like wants to engage with any sort of identity question at all. And as you mentioned, November, this is not just about

trans people. And it really is very saddening to think about when the point comes where it's like, oh, this kind of goes after anyone who isn't a straight white guy, but it's going to be way too late. Because again, it's very much the one thing, and my final point on this really is just about the implementation of CAS is very much embedded into the general healthcare system that this entire country runs on. And if you want to support state healthcare, it is something that ultimately you have to, except is probably not the right word, but you have to sort of figure out how to navigate that. Absolutely.

Yeah, I mean, I think you have to understand it as sort of the manifestation of a lot of older people's spite at the idea of any sort of young trans person existing, particularly. Like, that's the one sort of concrete difference about CAS as opposed to any of the other sort of weapons in transphobia's arsenal, right? That's the one sort of concrete difference about CAS as opposed to any of the other weapons in transphobia's arsenal, right? And I think as a 32 year old trans woman, they're not coming after me. They absolutely are coming after me. I'm just in the way, right?

They are- You're just in the way clutching your aching back. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They are triggered and owned by the teams who, you know, the teens who do not have aching backs like us, and are in fact daring to be happy in this country. Mmhm. I mean, it's worth being like, this is all about gender affirming care for children, right?

What is gender affirming care for children? Pre-pubescent children, it is entirely semantic. It is just about changing how you refer to a child, how you let the child present themselves. Because quite frankly, pre-pubescent kids are basically androgynous. Like, this is just how that works. That process is called social transition if you want to change that bit of yourself. Where it is medical is about specifically and only delaying, delaying the onset of puberty until the child has had more time to consider whether transition is right for them. Like, the pressure of starting puberty in the wrong body is traumatic.

It's horrifying. Like, when a child can see, like, can hear in real time their voice is getting deeper, can see hair sprouting in places they do not fucking want to. Yeah, I didn't love it. That is where rash decisions get made. That is where medical malpractice can come in. Like, that is where we need to be supportive towards these children. And I, this quite frankly terrifies me because I used to work with kids, I used to work with trans kids,

and I, they're just kids, dog. They're so normal. You just call them she instead of he, and then they just like play. They have fun with it. There's a specific bit of wording here, but I really want to pull up here, which is just in the opening in the chairs forward, where they condemn starting masculinizing or feminizing hormones in the mid-teens. And I really want to highlight that because if you have a transgender patient and you've ruled out hormone blockers, they are going to start masculinizing or feminizing hormones in their mid-teens. That's what that is, that's just puberty. Like, that's just what you're prescribing to them already. So here we see this belief that if you are born with a penis, going through male

masculinizing puberty, which makes irreversible changes to your body... Robb – Irreversible damage, one could say. ...is natural. Going through female puberty, however, is so beyond the pale that it shouldn't even be considered for like 24 year olds. Even if you want it, it's not your decision. Even if it's voluntary. No, no, no, no. The NHS will decide for you what kind of thing you want to do with your body.

I don't trust these cis motherfuckers to like tell me how I relate to my own gender because I've seen how they relate to theirs, and they're freaks. In fact, they may even prevent you from getting a haircut or changing your name, because one of the other things the report recommends is that social transition should not be attempted without clinical oversight. How? How will they decide what social transition? You got a doctor's note for that haircut.

How will they decide? How do you know? You just could be a boy with long hair! The NHS proposed that very thing in 2023, and it was condemned by WPATH, AsiaPATH, EPATH, PATH-A and PATH-AOTRO, which is to say every international transgender health care body condemned this as, and I quote from their statement here, unevidenced, ludicrous and dangerous. And listen, if you've ever met anyone in a medical organization, you will know

that's extremely strong language for a medical organization to use. And that's what the NHS has decided to go for. What are they going to do? Are they going to send a doctor to you, to like, your Fallout character creator? What the fuck are they going to do? I just imagined for a moment, I had a nice liberal moment where I imagined that we might get like one generation of trans people who didn't have quite as much trauma? And uh, no.

Well, unfortunately it's not this one, sorry. No, sorry. I thought we were going to perfectly balance it out, I thought they were going to get to transition and then we would get them with the climate, and instead it turns out they get all the same trans shit I did, and then we get them with the climate. Riley, I can tell you the answer to your question of what are they going to do. The reason that's in there is so that transphobic parents can go to schools that are gender affirming and cite the caste report as go to schools that are gender affirming and

cite the caste report as reasons why those schools should stop affirming trans students. Yep, yep, yep, yep, 100%. It's a poison pill. Or maybe as part of full employment, we're going to hire people to fall around parents into toy stores. All of us have like failed these kids so badly that this has even happened this much. Oh, also another thing to note here, obviously normal cisgender young girls also start taking hormone therapy in their mid-teens because that's what the pill is. Yeah.

Like, this is ridiculous. Also, you can get on testosterone as a cis male boy for failure to thrive, or whatever it's called in teens, to be like, you are too short and you're looking like fucking too weak. You're too soy. Have some testosterone. Yeah, have some gender-affirming hormones, bro. Yeah. Because you're cis, so it's cool, you know?

I don't know. We've established that so much of what it says is genuinely fucking bonkers. I mean, the part about social transition, I did stand up and I shouted, how? At my computer. You just have to interpret it as stop being happy. Yeah, it's bunk. This is not a medical document, this is a political statement. And the political statement is, you guys do not exist. Luckily the politicians have been very receptive to it.

Yeah, we talked about what it is, shall we now talk about the response? Something that I found interesting is that it has already been condemned by Path A and Path AOT Arroyo, I expect, oh and also a bunch of Canadian doctors too, I expect more condemnations from the international community will start coming in, I don't think that will change NHS England's minds, as established this is an organisation that can and does ignore the deaths of children, the condemnations of international medical authorities mean nothing to them, but may prove to be important at a later date. Yeah, for the fucking trial in the Hague, maybe. You know, these guys will be on Afternet

and Yacht. Well, when we do the Kelly Inquiry, yeah. Yeah. Distinguished podcaster. Yeah, dude, we've got Brian Rose to do it. Yeah, the Rose Kelly Inquiry, yeah. No, no, I'm doing it with him and it's the Rose and Thorn inquiry. Yeah, all inquiries have to be named after like your local pub. It's called the Devon Exploratory Report. It's three words and the last two are them all.

Yeah, hug them all. Give them a nice big hug. So, West Streeting has been one of the first politicians- SHAPELESS SACK OF HAM. Warn me if you're gonna talk about West Streeting. This piece of fuckin' shit. Genuinely, maybe one of the worst people going in British politics, which says something. It's a crowded fuckin' field, I hate him the most. My former MP.

Because the thing is, it's not even... I can stand hatred and bigotry and stuff, but the kind of- Oh, interesting, can you? I do, every day of my fucking life. But it's the weathervane thing of, like, well, I support the current thing, whoever is most willing to support me and make me minister is, yeah. And so Wes Riesing, late of the trans women and women, trans men and men, Labour policy,

has since apologised for ever having said that, and has now pivoted fully into, yeah, we gotta implement this fuckin' report, and also have separate trans wards hospitals, which is gonna be hysterical watching them find the money for. Just reading from this Devon report. I'm glad that Wes is practicing his apologies now. It won't save him. He went on The Sun's Never Mind the Ballots program with Harry Call, where he said- You wanna get a look at this Devon inquiry? It's nice and short, I just said it to you.

I was wrong to say that trans people are who they say they are. Essentially. He said that. And I say this with some self criticism and reflection. He's doing a right wing struggle session. Basically like, yeah, the license to be serious frontline politician in this country is that he has to do a right wing struggle session with Harry Cole. It says, if you'd asked me a few years ago, I would have said trans men are men, trans women are women.

This is all blown out of proportion. But now I sit and reflect and think, I think there are actually a lot of complexities and I would quite like to stay elected in a very right-wing Labour Party. It's a nuanced issue. It's actually so complex now. Yeah, it's so complex. I love when people tell me something's a nuanced issue. I really want to graduate Harvard. I'd love to be a nuanced issue. It's actually so complex now. Yeah, it's so complex. I love when people tell me something's a nuanced issue. I really wanna graduate Harvard.

I love to be a nuanced issue. He basically said, I want to stay important, and so this issue has become nuanced to me. He said, I take the criticism on the chin, and at the same time I also think that there's been some absolutely ugly rhetoric directed towards trans people who are at the wrong end of all the statistics. By you, motherfucker. The thing is, right, the way the polls are looking, the Labour Party could come out and say, mandatory transition for every kid assigned at random, and still win 600 seats.

Look, November, we gotta get the evidence base somehow. Yeah, the whole country. Britain has been an experiment conducted by, uh, yeah. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. They actually were in charge the whole time. So his comments about the ugly rhetoric are quite interesting because this is something we see quite a lot in particular from, from cisgender politicians who condemn the toxicity of the debate.

So we've got to take the heat out of the debate. That is a distraction tactic for them to avoid answering the substantive question which is, why is there a debate on this? Why does anyone except us have a say in what we do with our bodies? Mm. Abi, why are you so angry and toxic about this? He's spreading a lot of negativity. Just reading the Devon Report? See, that's the thing, the Devon Report is spreading a lot of positivity. It's got an exclamation mark at the end. He uses a lot of lines from the cast review. He says, oh, clinicians have been silenced

and afraid to come forward. We have had medical interventions. And again, one of, I think, the best kinds of survey that's ever given is one of these surveys where people are asked, Hey, what percentage of the country do you think is trans? I love these questions. 100% the day after the election. What percentage of the country do you think is an immigrant? What do you think your perceptions and always it's like, Oh yeah, fully 30% of the country's

trans they're in control of everything. They're going to trans me next is what they usually say. It's like 6% at the most generous reading. Yeah. And so when Sreding says, I think we've got to ask ourselves why it is we've seen medical interventions that have been given on the basis of very weak evidence. This is now on a per medical intervention basis, the number of column inches and like radio and TV minutes that have been devoted to talking about it is again

Like an Iranian drone to Israeli off the office Ratio right like there's they are it is per like what as you said earlier like a hundred maybe Well, yeah with wedge like as much as people exaggerate the number of trans people people also don don't care very much. Like, even people who hate us often don't care. When asked what's most important when they're voting, people tend to say things like the fact that I will never be able to buy a house, all the rivers are full of shit, everything is expensive, like, a yoghurt is a main in a meal deal now? They're not thinking about trans people in that context. And like, this is one area in which the Labour Party could exercise, if it wanted to, if it wasn't full of the most craven, most cowardly motherfuckers alive, some actual moral leadership.

And it is choosing not to, in order to pursue the votes of people who probably won't vote for it anyway, and who are gonna go to reform. ALICE Something else I would like to note is that Westreeting has refused over a dozen invitations to meet with trans people and be briefed on the trans healthcare crisis, as has Kirstama. He's completely uninterested in hearing our opinions on this. I imagine it's quite difficult to actually hear from us when you're trying to like, morally mandate us out of existence. Yeah.

They keep refusing to meet with me to discuss this report. Yeah, you keep getting stopped at security is the main problem. I gotta stop bringing those knives in. You want to show them your collection of IRGC medals too. He says, I want to send a clear message. Oh you are? Oh yeah. I want to send a clear message that under a Labour

government there will be accountability. You're not going to do that and get away with it. And accountability meaning NHS Trust refusing to cooperate with handing over the data of trans children to this external review. So again, what we have promised, as ever... Speaking here as a dog, I am going to allow the tail to wag me. What we're really saying is, right, is, oh yeah, we're going to ensure that young people are receiving appropriate and high quality conversion therapy, basically. Great. That's what the promise is.

Cool. Super duper. Yeah. And that the government is actually willing to step in and interfere in the, politically interfere with medical organizations in order to ensure that this happens. Not that the medical organizations were that good to start with, but no, I mean the cast review is just about them legitimizing what they've been doing for the last five years

anyway. What they're basically saying is we are finally deciding to reduce the quality of weight. I will say this though as a bit of optimism, this will not work. Trans people cannot be morally mandated out of existence, right? I'm afraid we are still here. Even if you actively try to kill all of us, it still doesn't work, because it's just a facet of human existence and identity that kind of re-emerges despite yourself. Yeah, something else that occurred to me is that they've had to, well, in a complicated

way, lie so much about the existing evidence in order to produce this report. If they do manage to just open these new services which offer conversion therapy, they're going to have to lie about the impact of that because conversion therapy doesn't work. And it's going to require so much maintenance of control. It's going to require covering up more and more deaths of patients on the waiting lists. And it's gonna take so much effort to do this. And they're gonna have to continually shut out trans people who are going to continually tell them fuck off this is my decision. That I just don't see it being long term sustainable.

I've no doubt they could do terrible damage in the meantime. But I feel like this quest of theirs is futile. ALICE Yeah, and it even makes them feel a bit bad. I think a lot about Keir Starmer sort of being shocked that Rishi Sunak was willing to kind of do the trans jokes in front of Brianna Jai's mother, right, because it offended him. And it's like, impropriety. Well, there's a lot more impropriety coming that he's legitimizing, right, and I think that he is gonna have to live with the consequences of that even more than we are in some ways. RILEY Well, I don't know what you're talking about.

King Canute very much managed to fight off the sea. ALICE Yeah, and they managed to legislate gay people out of existing in the 80s, I think. there's none left now, it's a shame. ALICE When a sort of incoming government gets captured by a deranged minority, bigoted hate group lobbying concern, that's always a really positive experience for the politicians involved, right? So it's very sustainable. RILEY It lasts a long time, I hear. ZACH Yeah, at no point do they ever... does the

whole thing just kind of burn out? No, no, no. Especially with like, a party with so many people dedicated to knifing each other, like, in it, like, the Labour right make the fucking Harkonnens look like a daycare centre, and as soon as they're actually in power, as soon as it's like the keys to number ten that are at stake, I don't know what's gonna happen, but I think that, like, there is the potential there for this to be a serious sticking point. Yeah.

Kirstam is getting really big and he's rolling around in a big vat of black goo. It's my Arrakis. Oh, let's all see if we can do Kirstam impression. Oh, Milo. In Australia still. Look, look. Oh the Spice Harvest. I call them to go further by handing over the spice. My planet, my Iraqis.

My dude, My dude. My dude. My dude. My dude. My dude. My dude. My dude. My dude. My dude. My dude. My dude.

My dude. My dude. My dude. My dude. My dude. My dude. My dude. My dude.

My dude. My dude. My dude. My dude. My dude. My dude. My dude. My dude. My dude. people will stop being trans. Yeah. How's, how's healthcare generally in this country? Yeah. And this is, this is kind of what is slightly amusing to me to the degree that like, if anyone sort of read this report or the way that it's been talked about, it's sort of like, we have this like incredibly efficient healthcare system that is being like corrupted by...

From the people that brought you waiting lists for gender clinic, it comes a waiting list for ambulance. Right. And it's kind of like, in one way, like thinking about trans healthcare is so interesting because it does sort of, it's a really acute insight into like the failures of the healthcare system in general. But like the way that it's been framed is kind of like, like, and the way in which like people like West Streeting talk about it, but by all means not just West Streeting, but it has like, it is very obvious that like part of the power that has come with like blaming trans people and sort of taking away the healthcare has

sort of come, they've sort of framed this as like, Oh, you know, it is, it is producing inefficiencies within the healthcare system. But it's like, number one, there's no evidence of that. That's like not true at all. Like the evidence that there is like sort of like sort of points towards the opposite. If anything is making our fragile healthcare system even more fragile, it is the people who cannot wait to remove trans healthcare but are very much going to be a financial pressure, if not even more so, in the next decade. Niamh – Desegregation would save millions.

B save millions. Yeah, and also just like all the attempted fucking reforms that like West Streeting still insists there needs to be more of. Millions must transition. I think, yeah, it is amusing to me how the way in which like this has kind of been used as a way to like scape, not only just to scapegoat trans people obviously, but to almost like plaster over the structural problems that no party has any intention of fixing and if anything like the, if you were you were to take West Street in by its word, is going to be infinitely worse.

It's not that there's long term structural problems, it's that the doctors are woke. The doctors have... the gender. That's the problem. Ahh, the ideology. You can kind of see gender care as a peripheral part of the NHS that it doesn't care about and isn't interested in doing the thing that it's doing with all the other specialist bits, which is firefighting enough to stop people from dying in corridors just enough to keep the heat off senior management.

Like, there's so much of this stuff, the NHS has been cut to the bone to the point that like... ALICE It can't even do gender-affirming care to people who don't want to transition or like, don't need it. It fails every gender, because it's failing at everything, and there are reasons for that. And no one wants to address this, and this is just, to me this sort of feels like, among other things, a very convenient way of neutralising what is effectively...

I mean, I'm so old I remember when the fact that GICs had these huge long and practical waiting lists was something that made them different from a lot of other bits of the NHS. Right? And it was, those things existed because, like, they didn't want to deliver that care, right, and they didn't care about the patients. Whereas now that's the experience for a lot of people, who they, you know, do care about. Yeah. Every time I tell anyone about what, every time I tell a cis woman about what the NHS does to us, that cis woman always goes, oh God, yeah, my doctors never listened to me either.

Yeah. Absolutely. That way it's very gender affirming. What Streeting is planning on doing is to say, you know, again, to, again, his whole strategy now seems to be to go on the sun, take, talk about, legitimise himself by saying that what he wants to do is going to enrage people who should be his supporters, and then sort of turning back to Harry Cole, one of the most pathetic, worm-bellied men in all of Britain asking for his approval. And then saying, I'm gonna enrage the left by doing this. I'm going to enrage my supporters by doing this. I appreciated Boris Johnson's strategy with Harry Cole a lot more, you know, just being

like, I'm going to fuck your wife. No, so, right. He says, oh, we're going to use the private sector to clear the NHS backlog, which again, like is... We can see the kind of situation that is going to be more common under the West reading thousand year reign as health secretary, which is- Can't someone else do it? A hospital was recently completed in Birmingham that was like a kind of nuclear PFI, where instead of just the NHS borrowing money from the private sector to build a hospital,

what they did is they have now collaborated with HCA Healthcare, a private healthcare provider in American company, in running a hospital that will use its... And then basically there will be a kind of profit sharing organization where some of the beds in the hospital, the majority of them, all of the articles about it take pains to point out. Of course, I'm sure this won't just be in the first consent manufacturing, the consent factory that looks like a hospital. It's already happening, even absent the building, right? There was this case quite recently where a woman had a colostectomy, right? Very, very simple operation. Like, absolutely routine. They removed her gallbladder, right? And basically, the NHS told her, in order to get this done

in a certain, like, reasonable time scale, it's better for you to, like NHS told her, in order to get this done in a sort of reasonable time scale, it's better for you to go private, we will pay for it, we will fund the private operation, right? And she's recovering in a private hospital and then gets sepsis and dies before NHS, patient transfer can transfer her to an NHS place which has an ICU, because a private hospital doesn't. Right? This is already something that's happening. It's already something that's happening on absolutely quotidian medical cases. So,

what chance does anyone with anything slightly unusual have, y'know? Actually, the NHS has already refused explicitly to move trans patients on the waiting list into private care, despite the NHS constitution saying that they should. It was the subject of a legal case which the High Court dismissed." Smoo fantastic. M I'm sure that won't continue. But this is what we're talking about is the blending of the private sector and the NHS, but the private sector to continue to work with the NHS has

to- S You have to get the worst of both. M It has to take profits out of the NHS to give back to HCA's shareholders or else it wouldn't be here. S Yeah, and by the way, all the clinicians in private health care are just like NHS clinicians picking up extra shifts. It's all drawing from the same pool of doctors and nurses. Every problem is the same problem. Just invest, please God, we need money. Please God, make it possible for people to train as people who work in the healthcare

sector. Make it possible for them to live on that salary. Is collapsing. Every local council has no funding. The NHS can't do shit. We need money. If you're very wealthy, you could get private conversion therapy. In general, there should be investment in the country. You could even see the sea change that Streeting means to bring about, which he's saying, oh no, I want to admit that internal markets for NHS services haven't made them more efficient. So his model, instead of bringing in the logic of the private sector to the NHS and then having it contract out to private providers, is to have them work much more closely together.

And I go back to this new Harbour Hospital in Birmingham, they say, oh, actually there's more beds for NHS patients in there. But what they're essentially advocating for is like, I think will turn into a system where it's like, there are hospitals with poor doors and rich doors, basically. It's going to be like the sky pool. It's already been mooted in Scotland. Like the clinical director of NHS Scotland suggested the idea of a two tier health system, where if you have more money you just pay for your healthcare. Yeah. And meanwhile, in England, they say, oh- Just fucking tax more!

Just tax and invest more! What happened to free at the point of care? You have to put money into the system, or it doesn't work! You could save a lot of money by closing these unnecessary gender identity clinics! Yeah, you've got a whole parallel NHS running over there, just get rid of that shit. What NHS? Yeah, what you do is you get rid of the parallel segregated NHS, you get rid of this idea of like, segregated trans wards and hospitals, and then you give every clinician a copy of

the Devon Report as a pamphlet. And that constitutes the like, CPD that you need to be doing, and then they know to prescribe accordingly. So I am Lisa Dalgoib. I will lead you to paradise. He can leave me to paradise. Going back, though, to the cast report and right. It's we can talk about like, what can you possibly do?

I've been told not to answer this question. Yeah, if you are a cis person, then both in regard to this and generally, the most important thing I can ask from you is to be as loud of a supporter of trans rights and trans people as you can possibly be, and get really annoying about it in every context with every person. If you're any kind of academic or scientist, then publicly condemning the cast report and its methodology could be very useful. It will be useful for building a case against it,

which could come in handy later. If you are one of the people who was involved in the cast review as just like a normal person and not as a psycho in particular, if you work at the university of York where the evidence review is conducted, your public condemnation could do a lot of good. If you are part of an NHS union, then publicly challenging John Stewart, Jeremy Glide and James Palmer, the people who will actually be in charge of implementing this barbarity, would be very useful. Ummm, what else?

If you're a clinician, your professional organizations could do a world of difference, and as well, this is something that like, explore the kind of latitudes of your own personal practice, because in some cases they're considerably wider than what we make them. What a beautiful phrase! I was just gonna say, break the rules. We know that there are one or two- You don't even have to, is the thing. Like, as far as these things go, you don't even necessarily need to be considerably better than a lot of other people doing your job.

S We know that there are some doctors out there who are good who will explicitly say, no, this system is fucked, let me give you what you want. S O There are networks that you can find and access, that record which ones. L I Particularly GPs. Like, if by any chance you're a GP listening to this, your authority in this area is like, considerably broader.

I'm a GP listening to this? Yes! Oh my god. If you are a GP listening to this, trans people have you on a list. That's just the case of it, I'm sorry. Not to kill, but positive or negative. We have networks, we have lists that say whether you are trans-friendly or not. That's it.

Make sure you're on it. If you are trans, oh... Survive, motherfucker. That's the most important thing. It is your duty to live. Absolutely. You cannot despair about these things, even when you're tempted to. The next generation of trans youth have to have trans elders.

You cannot let these motherfuckers win. You have to live. You wanna be like one of the old motherfuckers in Cloud Atlas, in whatever like post-climate apocalypse society we build, you have to live. Also, I believe it is legal for me to say this, the DIY scene has never been stronger. Yes. That's true. You're talking about music, of course.

Home taping is killing gender identity clinics. It comes with risks, obviously, but it is still less risky than conversion therapy. So... It's in some ways less risky than doing nothing. Don't let anyone send you to gender exporter therapy, that is conversion therapy. It's bullshit. I guess as well, if you're a trans kid and you're staring down the barrel of this, because I know a lot of trans kids in particular watch my work. I transitioned in my mid-twenties, and in some ways that was

much more difficult than it would have been had I transitioned at 14. But if the worst does happen to you, it doesn't have to be the end. ALICE Yeah, if you were like transitioned against your will, it does make you a much better podcaster, it turns out. RILEY You can transition at any any age and it will be fine. Stay alive. Yeah. And yeah, survive.

Do you know how many years you have left? Do you know how different the world will be by the time that you're old? You have to see it. You have to affect it. Stay. Come and see Hallie's Comet with us at Kill James Bond Live in 2063. Yeah, facts. Yeah, we'll do it. They Kill James Bond Live in 2063. Yeah, facts. Yeah, we'll do it.

They finally killed James Bond in 2063. Look, I think that's probably a pretty good place to leave it, but to the cast of Kill James Bond, I want to say thank you for coming on. Oh, it's my pleasure. It's been a pleasure. We have a podcast. It's called Kill James Bond. You can find it anywhere.

It's good. It's good as fuck. I love it. All trans. All trans all the time, baby. Also, if you want to see all sis but one, Star Wars the Acolyte comes out in June. Yeah, okay. Well, there's your problem as a podcast about engineering disasters with slides on YouTube.

10,000 posts is pretty good too. And maybe one day, Kill James Bond will watch the movie 13 Assassins, which I think would be very cool. Am I in that? Oh fuck yeah man. Holy shit yeah. Alright, alright. There are other reasons why we watch films.

This is my way of trying to affect the course of that podcast. I want them to watch 13 Assassins. Maybe one day we'll watch Shin Godzilla. And there'll be someone who... Stop suggesting things. I would love to. You mentioned it. Someone in your crew did mention it and I was just like, okay, yeah.

We will watch it. Yeah, 100%. Cool. All right. I'll wait for that moment to happen in 2063. Right. And we'll still have opinions about Shin Godzilla. Oh buddy.

All right. So thank you again to KJB for coming on and hanging out with us today. Remember, I welcome the bringing orders to the Northern Hemisphere, but I call upon Rabban to go further and pacify the uninhabitable Southern Hemisphere. We will be instating the recommendations of a Devon report post-haste. Thank you for your patience. We will get to you. All right.

All right. We will see you you. All right. All right. We will see you on the bonus episode in a few days, everybody. Bye. Bye. Love you.