TRASHFUTURE - The Nice Kind of Censorship feat. Aidan 'Taco' Jones

Episode Date: August 15, 2018

Fringe is ongoing and in this episode Riley (@raaleh), Hussein (@HKesvani), and Milo (@Milo_Edwards) meet with comedian Aidan ‘Taco’ Jones (@AJ_Taco) and discuss tech platforms’ recent decisions to ban insane right-wing conspiracy mongers. Is this a good thing? You decide. They also discuss the extremely well adjusted recent articles from Boris Johnson, Rod Liddle, and Brendan O’Neill. You can commodify your dissent with a t-shirt from http://www.lilcomrade.com/. You can also purchase useful kitchen implements from our socialist cookware sponsor, Vremi (https://vremi.com/). There was supposed to be an additional interview on this episode but sadly we have experienced audio failure yet again. Sorry, sorry, we’re trying to fix it. Nate (@inthesedeserts) produced this and has a special message to the long-suffering fans.

So we just got an interesting meal, me, a succulent, interesting. What a nightmare, not who's saying who's in the ball, but our friend Aiden who is not in the ball. And actually, we just did a whole episode with him, but you'll hear that later. Episode is a very good term for what just happened. He's like Tarantino. It's like the ending is first and the beginning in the middle. Yeah, in the middle. Now is after we've had that just interesting meal. Where we got a chicken Caesar salad. They could only have been described as

it was like it was a hell time line. Seizure, various ingredients in a swimming pool of filth. It was fucked up. It was it was hot meat and then boiled lettuce in a pool of oil and just bits of capsicum. There was some kind of come involved. Edinburgh, Edinburgh cuisine is not a cuisine. My friends actually from this is my fifth Edinburgh fringe, but a bunch of my mates from Melbourne came over and are like, one of my mates, Pete, we're going to London for a week after this thing. And he was just like, is the food in London better than please tell me it's better. And I was like, yeah, they actually have good food

here, but they just settle for such a low standard on their daily food things. You know, so I guess if anyone's listening to this in the past, please send a better lunch, because we are very ornery from having had a bad one. It was one of the worst, Pete. Yeah, it was really, really satisfying. Yeah. Yeah. It was somehow like both excessively crisp and excessively soggy at the same time. It was glued to the box. I tried to get the stuff out the middle by sawing it off the box with a knife, and I almost ate a piece of cardboard. Anyway, I'm ultimately saying is we're missing the food from the caliphate.

This is this is this is why I only stick to eating one meal, because I don't trust like things like delivery. So the only thing that I can say I will eat is just not like lightly spiced with salt as as washed down with a refreshing cup of soup. Personally, I I'm so happy that it's been revealed that Jordan Peterson only eats meat, which it has been revealed by the way. He only eats a hundred percent meat diet, and apparently his whole philosophy is just the late effects of Kreitzfeld Jakob disease. He must be just like shitting absolute bricks every day.

Only eats meat or eats meat in every meal. Not like only meat. He will not have bread. Only meat. Me 100 percent. So he has like those fucking KFC things that's like chicken. Double down. Yeah, the double down. He just only ate double down. No, he's like, oh, could I please have a KFC double down, but hold the lettuce? Yeah, it's like every time he takes a he see meat meat and greens, but then he then like he's a stop eating vegetables because apparently like having scurvy is completely rational. Yeah, every time Jordan every time Jordan Peterson

takes a shit, it sounds like an IRA execution. Welcome back to this episode of Trash Future, the podcast about how the future is trash. I said the fucking thing, but I didn't say the whole thing. I'm saying a new abridged version of it. And that's how that's going right now. My name is Riley. You can find me at Twitter on Rila, R-A-L-E-H is a bad Twitter handle. My name is Milo Edwards at Milo underscore Edwards on Twitter. My penis isn't small.

It's an abridged version of the penis. My name's Aiden Tarko Jones. You can find me on Twitter at AJ underscore Tarko or Instagram Aiden Tarko Jones. Yeah. And Aiden was joined us around this time last year for a discussion about housing. And this time he's just chilling in our house and just won't put the microphone down. We're a lot of drinks deep at this. We are joining us from the ball 30 p.m.

From the ball from the caliphate. I mean, I'm in the ball because I'm still in hiding after the soup tweet. They're still Americans who are like demanding that they know what cafe I work in. Are they trying to extradite you? They want to give me a piece of their mind and they want me to know that in Kansas, they wouldn't stand for people like me because everyone, regardless of whether they're black, white or Asian, eats soup from the same bowl to which I'm kind of thinking that,

you know, isn't that like a bit like unhygienic and isn't, you know, maybe, you know, maybe that's another good argument for socialized health care. I think that's a little bit talking. I think it's a little bit presumptuous to assume that everyone eats soup. You know what I mean? There are various regional cuisines that need to be taken into consideration in these kind of situations. Yeah. I mean, like, I mean, I mean, the only meals,

the only meals in like Brexit, Britain will be soup and like plain KFC double downs. I just can't believe that these chuds are prepared to give you a piece of their mind because from anything I can tell, they have not got much to spare. So, yeah, I just, just like, just like the muddy I'm in hiding, waiting for waiting for waiting for it all to just blow over. Who's saying Kasbani is the hidden Imam? I could, I could, I could probably get like arrested by like the Iranian, like secret police if they hear this podcast.

But then at the same time, that comforts me because they would have to listen to every single episode of the show. And at some point we'd have to explain all the dumb shit that we've said about like Virgil being a hack and what I don't know. I can't even remember what other stupid shit that we've said. Anyway, you can solo me at age Kasbani where I sometimes post smart stuff. I'm trying to do it more, but it always will go back to the sweet soup tweet. Oh, it will always, it will always go back to triggering the conservatives with soup.

So this episode, we've got a cool one coming up. We're going to talk about some, some news, current events, give our, our trademark, you know, sideways take at what's going on. And then, whoa, I'm walking here, but on the walls is sideways. Yeah, we're going to be walking here, but in the news. And then after this, we are going to speak with Molly Smith and Juno Mack who are at past to chips and fornicatrix on Twitter, who have written a very cool new book for Verso called revolting prostitutes, which everyone should read if they're

interested in like sex workers rights and like the creation of a sex industry that isn't just, you know, woke Bay, do whatever you want, but actually understands that like work is the problem. So yeah, do check it out. Do check out our interview. Keep listening, I guess, to the show. Yeah, the work is bad. Yeah, we're going to work now.

Maybe don't go to work and just continue listening to the podcast. Yeah. If you're on your commute, just stay on until Fadenbois. Fadenbois, please. My favorite, my favorite Essex youth gang, the Fadenbois. Just, just, hey, maybe stay on until Rodin Valley or Chigwell. It says so much about like the, you know, the social different substructures in the UK that like in Buckinghamshire, there's a place called

Cheshire Bois, which is called Cheshire fucking Bois. But in Essex, there's a place called Fadenbois, which is spelt the same, but is absolutely the Faden fucking boys. Pouring one out from a boys out here in Faden. What if you stayed on until Uxbridge or Hillingdon? Other places you could stay on till, stay on till them. Don't go to the center of the city to work. Just stay on to the other side of the city.

My uncle lives in Uxbridge. This is the same place that I'm from. Not fun fact. No. Anyways, guys, there's some shit going on. Shit. Yeah. For example, do you know that if you wanted to know your premier news source

for where to find if they're turning the frogs gay has been taken off the air? Have they? Have they done it? Have the frogs finally been turned gay? It's no longer news. My children will never know an ungay. Un-gay. That's very 1984.

Look at this. Look at those frogs fucking homosexual. My grandmother always used to say to me when I was a child. So, yes, fearless journalists in for wars have finally been taken off the air. Really? Yes. Wow. That's so wild.

Their YouTube channel has been deleted. Whoa. Their Apple podcasts podcast has been deleted. Spotify has gotten rid of them. Pinterest has gotten rid of them. Really? Alex Jones' head is about to explode at this very minute. Exactly.

Guys, I could take it all. I could take Spotify. I could take Instagram. I could take Twitter. But when they took Paul Joseph Watson off LinkedIn, that was me. Who am I going to endorse for having sexy as hell red ass lips? Who is going to endorse me for my skill at MAP sitter in front of a ray? Oh, yeah.

So they've been taken off the air and to be honest, I am of a mixed opinion about it. My opinion is not that mixed. It's mostly positive. Like it's 80% positive. What? Who took them off the air and how did they get took off the air? So what happened basically was that I think you'll find it was the Jewish conspiracy. It was the gay frogs.

It's a gay frog Jewish for Jewish conspiracy Alliance. No, so basically, like in short, what happened was that one major tech monopolist decided that after dozens and dozens of complaints because Alex Jones would like, you know, say shit like victims of school shootings or crisis actors or whatever and cause them to like be in a position where they couldn't go visit their own like children's graves because people kept harassing them and so on because it's like they just want to take your guns. They pretended all these school shootings are happening.

OK, your child is dead. But why are the frogs gay? No, yeah, that's that was a big, that's why it was a big thing. Well, after the Sandy, we're denying the existence of school should. Yes, that was a big thing. We said all school shootings are false flag attacks because the government wants to create a precedent to take away your gun. That is insane.

Correct. It is. Because that implies that the government has been training like child opportunities to shoot the other kids at school, which I think is a level of intelligence far beyond the current administration. Yeah. So so basically is it because people got complaints and then fucking who did it first? Hussein, do you remember who did it first? It was it was YouTube, I think.

Yeah, it was Google. Yeah, Google like took them down first. I think I think it was YouTube. Like Facebook like started to waver first and YouTube took it down. And then and and then like there was the dominoes fell after that as everyone looked at what everyone else was doing. So basically what happened was that the inside the inside story was that social media companies have kind

of been debating about whether like what to do if like channels like info was because they know that they know that the probably know the problems about like Alex Jones's channel. They know about like the conspiracy theories. They also know about like how like a lot of info wars people have been behind like doxing and stuff like that. So there's like a real kind of physical harm. So but they've been debating about this idea of like, should we like take

them off our platforms or not? And basically what happened was when YouTube decided and so YouTube like Google basically decided that like we're going to take them off the platform, there was no real like warning. There was no like strike system. They just took them down and that gave the incentive to everyone else to take them down, except for our friend Jack Dorsey on Twitter. Jack Dorsey, fearless fascism apologist.

Yeah, I mean, who not only like didn't take them down, but put like a free tweet defense of like their decision to do it, right? Because our friend Jack Dorsey just doesn't know when to stop digging. So like on his tweets, he said something along the lines of like, we're aware of like the problems of Alex Jones's tweets. But we also believe that like he is a kind of like critical voice at like a very urgent time of discussion, right? Which basically sets the idea that Twitter believes that all of Alex

Jones is like bullshit, like conspiracy theory stuff is completely fine and completely normal. But anyway, we're going to keep like deleting the accounts of like women of color and black women who like want to complain about racism on their platform. Here's the weird thing. There's this weird axis that's between Glenn Greenwald, who's usually very good and Count Dankula, who is 100% here today and in a live show. Welcome to the show, right?

We're they're saying like, oh, no, it's it's it's Alex Jones may have been an insane conspiracy theorist whose whole thing is just getting really red. But it's bad that these big tech monopolists can censor anybody. Yeah. And then and in Alex Joe and, you know, sorry, Alex Jones, Count Dankula very tastelessly appropriated the first they came for, etc., etc., a holocaust poem. But again, about a vitamin salesman. Count Dankula just made me think I want to suck your frog dick.

And then fucking and even Glenn Greenwald was like, yes, I'm not comfortable with the fact that, you know, there are tech monopolists who can just decide what we see. And so both of these people are sort of uncomfortable with it for sort of slightly different reasons. And, you know, that's why I say I I have a slightly mixed feeling towards it because, you know, Count Dankula is obviously a bad faith acting fucking moron who's who's famous because he taught a pug to be racist. And his actual title is the second Viscount Dankula anyway.

Whereas I think Greenwald has a point. But like, what's the point of defending someone whose whole thing is just telling emotionally appealing lies? So I think because, like, yeah, I kind of see I kind of see where the point I kind of see the point that's being made here in the sense that, like, you know, you may be kind of, you know, or, you know, famously famous liberals might be very happy. But, like, you know, big tech is like censoring or like taking down accounts. Accounts that, like, by the way, have been like, you know, you can make a pretty stringent case of them

breaching, like, various terms and conditions. But in any case, the idea that, like, any kind of big, big platform can shut down people's accounts, like, does this set a dangerous precedent? And I kind of think there's a disingenuous argument, largely because what we're really talking about is like tech monopolies, right? We're talking about, like, private sector, you know, private sector, like, big tech that have been given, like, lots of privilege, not just by, like, you know, liberal administrations, but even the Trump administration too, right?

That's why, like, so many of these tech CEOs actually do really like the Trump administration. You know, so the bigger question is really just, like, what do we actually do with, you know, how do you make, how do you make, like, tech more equitable and more accountable? And there are better solutions for doing that. Like, you know, we had a show a few weeks ago about, you know, making, you know, turning social media companies into, like, commodities, like, public commodities, or public enterprises. I think that, like, the way that Greenwald and by extension, like, Dankelo and all these, like, alt-right shitheads have been reappropriating it.

It's more just, like, they're framing it in, they're framing it in a kind of a case of, like, victimhood. The idea being that, like, oh, you know, if they come for us or come for you, as if, like, you know, there's a moral equivalence between, you know, an individual, like, tweeting about their kids on Facebook and, like, a guy who makes so much money out of, like, selling fucking, like, sugar pills and talking about, and talking about, like, how the frogs are, like, sucking each other's dick. Oh, yeah. It's because, like, the thing to remember also is that a lot of these, like, alt-right shitheads and, like, Greenwald, who's admittedly very good mostly and,

but he, they're all making the same point, which, like, oh, no, now they're taking everybody down. It's like, tell that to, like, the trans YouTubers whose videos have been demonetized and deleted for the last years, for the people, like, people like LGBT people who've, like, had all of their content flagged as adult and, like, hidden from teenagers for years. Like, it's not new. And the, I was going to say that the really important thing is also, like, when we talk, when we, if you want to frame it in that debate, then, like, it's really a conversation about power, right? Like, who has power on these platforms? And, you know, you've made the point there that,

like, the people, like, people who have been censored include, like, trans student, like, trans people, people of color, like, left-wing activist groups. You know, this has been, this has been happening for years, right? So it's only now when, like, these kind of right-wing chuds with these huge platforms, because they kind of tweet stuff about how, like, all the refugees are coming after their daughters and everything. You know, when they're the ones who kind of, like, are subject to that, that's when they kick a fuss. And what we need to do is, like, okay, censorship and big tech and tech monopolization, like, those are really important issues, you know, stuff that, like, is very urgent to talk about, but we can't let, like,

movies, like, right-wing shitheads, like, frame the debate, just in the same way that, like, the left, I think, were very, they were very, very, like, off the mark when it came to letting the right frame the conversation on free speech. Like, we can't be making these same mistakes again. I guess I was just going to say something about how these are private entities and they have the prerogative to, um, to censor their platforms the way that they want, but he makes a good point about tech monopolization and the fact that these platforms need to be in some way controlled by the government or by the people, because if they're, they affect, like, YouTube effectively holds the monopoly on video content, right? So, yeah. So, the thing that I was going to say

before is basically moot now, because you made a better point. That's the thing. It's like, it's like, every time something like this happens, it just re-emphasizes the point that these companies ought not be privately owned, ought be broken up, and then probably publicly owned. Yeah, totally. Because, like, the best way to- I love being publicly owned. The best way to-

Publicly owned by a publicly owned platform. The best way to understand them isn't as, you know, private startups who are inventing this side or the other, but they're now utilities. Yeah. Like, they're now, like, it just like, like, pipes bring you water, cords bring you electricity, YouTube brings you inflation. Shut up this month, darling. I want to see YouTube on the fucking monopoly board instead of water.

Who needs water? I want to see a video of a chimp pissing in his own mouth. That's the thing. Ultimately, Trashfuture's main goal has always been to nationalize team 10. Team everyone. Until that happens. Dude, I once saw a video of an Australian guy pissing in his own mouth in a punk concert, which is apparently a thing you guys do.

Yeah, apparently there's a thing in the Australian punk scene where if a show is really good, you take out your dick and you piss in your own mouth. I mean, I don't know which punk scenes you're referring to, but I mean, I guess there's like a G. G. Allen type thing where people will have certain reverence for bodily fluids. Like, I'm having a good time. Let me shit in my hand. I was recently on holiday with a friend who, you know, he's like,

it's weird because he's actually one of the more normal people I know on a day-to-day basis. When he gets a bit drunk, you know, he sort of has like, and we were in, we were in France and he really needed a shit. He was quite drunk and he said, I'm going to go poo in the sea. But what he actually did was he pooed in his own hand and then he threw it into the sea. That's incorrect. He was standing in the sea while he did that. So basically it's like, you're sitting on the toilet.

He threw it back into the toilet. There you go, shit. That'll show you Poseidon, you fucking dog. And then afterwards, just to annoy people, he pissed in his own mouth. Right. Look, that's real weird. So that's what we're trying to do for you. In some.

Right. I was also going to say that YouTube banning, you know, the trans YouTubers is something I'm conflicted about because obviously I want trans people to have a voice, but on the other hand, I also hate all YouTubers. So I kind of want them all to be banned. So really, I would say YouTube's mistake was in not just banning all YouTubers. So wait, you're not an all lives matter kind of guy. You're like a no YouTubers matter.

Exactly. No YouTubers matter. And all the YouTube. Go back to eBalm's world. That's what I said. So let's, I mean, I think it's like ultimately the problem with the sort of the good thing about the info wars ban is that obviously we don't need to restate this info wars is an insane conspiracy website that it's like tearing apart the fabric of our society or it's exploiting

weaknesses in the fabric of our society that we've created to just complete the tearing apart. But you would say that because you eat babies. I do. And you got me. Yeah, you got me. But it's good that it's banned, but the fact that it was so easy to ban is something we shouldn't necessarily be triumphalist about. I just, I genuinely don't want it to be banned because I find it so funny.

But I feel there are so many like shit right wing like spewing channels. I ban first put it put it put in the bread and an eel theme song. That's right. We are talking once a game about Brendan O'Neill. Big Brendan. The guy who has my favorite surf brand of all time. The highest IQ in all of Britain. Quicksilver.

Brendan O'Neill. We got the smartest, most logical man who understands that you need to affix your wallet to yourself with a kind of chain. Less can get stolen. Did you remember the days when O'Neill's was a brand of sports surfwear that everyone used to wear? No. Where is O'Neill's now? It was like Quicksilver, but also.

It got sued by Brendan O'Neill for being too rational a brand of surfwear. I'm sure many of our listeners will have seen that Boris Johnson recently wrote an article in the Telegraph whereupon he said Muslim women. Yeah, that was very convoluted. Unto therefore which in summation. Everyone here is fired. So from the person who doesn't own a stake in the podcast. Nate, please make me look good.

Boris Johnson, foreign secretary of the United Kingdom and overall OF has written an article where he has said that Muslim women who are wearing burqas and even though he mostly means knee cobs basically look like letterboxes and he wouldn't trust them more than bank robbers. Now, I don't like being fair to Boris Johnson, but can we be fair to Boris Johnson for one brief second before then ripping him mercilessly, which is that he did say, I want unreservedly women to be allowed to wear knee cobs and I think it's important that they are not bad. Wasn't that his initial point? Well, that's the thing. It's like it was his initial point, but then by everything he says

subsequently, you can understand that actually he doesn't really really wants to do is he wants to rile up at Islamophobic base in order to like energize his like eventual campaign for conservative party leader. But he also wants to give himself a fig leaf so that everyone else can't say he's racist. If I had a letterbox in the shape of a human woman wearing a neck up, I'd think I'd be doing pretty well. That's a very bespoke letterbox. You can't buy a letterbox like that. No, you absolutely cannot. No, what I hate about Muslim women is they're all bright red and full of post. So Boris Johnson wrote this article a few days ago and it has triggered something.

Here's the thing. I normally give the conservative party no credit at all. But to her credit, Sayida Warsi, who consistently calls out Islamophobia and the conservative party is not like every other conservative MP, including your beloved Sayida Warsi. No, I hate that out. Sayida Warsi was not like Sayida Warsi. That's why I said Nate added that out. Every other conservative MP, including your beloved Anna Subri has not effectively called Boris Johnson out because ultimately, they're kind of fine with it. However, Sayida Warsi has been, to her credit, a very vocal opponent of Islamophobia and the conservative party, which need I not remind you, is a lot of how they get elected.

Yeah. Sayida Warsi, a much needed reminder that Muslims can also be rich. Well, look, every day when I venture into my local WH Smith to buy water and I'm somehow blackmailed into buying a copy of the Daily Telegraph because the cashier will not just let me buy Evion. I just want Evion. They're like, do you want a copy of the Telegraph? And I say, no, I just want the Evion. But you can get your Evion cheaper by buying the Telegraph. Like, I don't want to buy the Telegraph. I only read manga. Like I say this to you every day. But are you sure you don't want to buy the Telegraph? The cartoons in it are really good. They're not really good, Sam. They're not. We've talked about this already. They're not good.

The guy who makes it, basically, he has paid too much. Anyway, the point is, is that I had to read this article in print. Or die of thirst. Which somehow makes it worse because you can't comment on a screen. You just have to make annotations on the side. So I ended up drawing a moustache on Boris Johnson, and it was very funny. But in seriousness, I think most of the initial takes have already been said. This is really just an attempt to push you over to the window. In that, I think the idea of, I'm not going to ban it, but I think I'm going to just insult people who wear it instead.

It ultimately serves as a very good defense for Boris Johnson in that right-wing chuds, like Jacob Rees-Mogg, or the goons who run West Monster, the Aaron Banks website, were basically able to say all the stuff that Boris Johnson wasn't anyway. I.e., we would have gone further and banned it. Actually, Boris Johnson is a really nice liberal because at least he won't ban it, even though he person disagrees with it. I think we recognize it, lots of people recognize it, but mainstream media goons who have been writing in The Times and stuff this week either don't recognize it or be refused to. The thing to remember here is that, and we're going to read from a quick article

from our friend Brendan O'Neill. The most edgy columnist in Britain. He has said, basically, there is a liberal criticism of Islam to be made, etc., etc., but the thing to remember is that there are, what, several hundred Nicabi women in Britain. If that, yeah. If that, there are, and I read this, this sticks out to me, there are in Quebec, a Canadian province of millions of people, 90, there are 90 of them in a province of millions of people. This is a tiny percentage of the population. This is a percentage of the population that is comparable to that of, like, I don't know, Catholic nuns. 19 Nicabi women, otherwise known as at least four blazing squads.

Catholic nuns, uncover your hair. What's going on there? Are you bald? We need to know. You look like a letterbox. You look like a basketball hoop. Someone may dunk on you and he may not know this. Right? Like this is with a capital H. This is a tiny percentage of the population that is comparable to other percentage of the population that otherwise wear different kinds of conservative religious dress of other religions, that the point of singling them out is either nothing or more insidiously to rile up a base that just doesn't like people who look different from them. Shall we have a quick stroll through Brenda O'Neill's article, Boris Johnson and the liberal

criticism of Islam? Shall we do that? I mean, I mean, we have no choice. Yeah, no. Shall we not? You have to. It's a thing. Shouldn't we? I'm literally say I'm sitting in like a big empty room on my own, like shouting at a computer screen. So yes, let's just do this, please. So Brenda O'Neill writes, with a fucking W you cretins, a truly bizarre thing happened yesterday. Boris Johnson was branded an Islamophobe and a bigot for writing in defense of Muslim women who wear the niqab in his telegraph column. Johnson said it was wrong for Denmark to ban the niqab and burqa in public places because the stage should not be telling any

free born adult woman, free born on the basis that slave born on the basis that that's still on the basis that that's still a possible way to be born. My sex slave women. Do you think you can take your niqab off your damn wrong free born adult woman, which he may or may not wear in a public place when she is simply minding their own business. Now, what is her business? Of course, he is. He is then he has made this claim and then he then said that, you know, you then said the following. However, the niqab and burqa are oppressive garments and and and O'Neill goes on. He said he dislikes the pressure some Muslim men put on Muslim women to don these black shapeless quote unquote modesty

garments and that some women who wear the burqa look like letterboxes. Some that's interesting. So really, really what he's saying isn't that the burqa makes women look like letterboxes, but that certain women have the attributes of letterboxes and some of these women choose through their own personal freedom to wear burqas. So really his issue is with the women rather than the garment. Some women have like raised like, you know, engraved like times of post collections on their chest. Yeah. All of it's like it's the point that Johnson is making, right? Is that had too many beers? Wines. No, the point. The point. The point Johnson is making here ultimately is is that he's like,

yeah, funny. Don't they look weird on the basis that like, again, no one else has ever looked weird on the basis of religion as though he's never seen the fucking pope. But he's not even able to commit to his position because he says some. He's not even saying it makes them look like this. He's still saying some to give himself a get out clause because he knows that he might be wrong. Some have tick ass bitties and letterboxes don't have those. My curvy post box looking wife. I love my curvy post box wife. Yeah, he's just a coward. Yeah.

No, it's it's all one of my postings today. Oh, it's come. I love I love my post box looking wife because she just lets me post all the time. Post it up. It's like, is he saying, oh, yeah, this is a really goofy looking religious adornment as again, as though he's never seen the Catholic Church. It's like, no, we've met at a special caller for everyone to wear. Women have to wear square hats that go over their shoulders. To be honest, I think those hats are really sexy and we've invented a kind of like special golden robe and shoes with a big cornice for our big guy to wear.

I find this I find this debate so difficult to really form an opinion on on the basis that like, like the liberal left in me is like, don't conflate the liberal in the left smile. Well, you know better than that liberal with a small l in the sense of being liberal and believing that people should be able to do what they want, which the left also believes in like, I believe that everyone can have whatever sexual orientation they want, etc. That kind of liberal, the good kind, right? Just fine, fine, fine, fine liberal with fine with we all agree. And I believe that, you know, everyone has complete freedom of religion should be able to wear whatever they want as part of that religion. That's not a problem.

But also there's another part of me which thinks that like, all religion is so inherently dumb that why are we even like, why like, and like, Muslims take a lot of heat, which is undeserved and that's a problem and it's all bound up with racism and white supremacy and what have you, but also like dressing up to please God is dumb. Yeah. I think, look, I think that that gets to like a core of it, which is we're there to be a Christian, a group of very extreme Christians who like, no, all women need to dress as nuns. And if they don't go out in public as nuns, it's a bad thing, etc, etc. I would oppose that. Well, then, but then, but then the, I mean, because, but I think ultimately,

like, really the big, but Boris Johnson is doing and and everyone's free to disagree with me should they so choose is what like, hang on, hang on, give me give me space to figure out how I'm going to so choose, which is that and which is essentially like, he is saying that, look, I'm concerned that Muslim men as white men often do, they're like, no, I'm concerned about Muslim men. I'm concerned that Muslim men are making Muslim women dress as letterboxes for reasons of I don't want anyone else getting a boner about her reasons of having a sick Halloween party. And but the thing is, I think if Boris Johnson and the conservatives were genuinely concerned about spousal about spousal coercion, understanding that spousal coercion is not

a uniquely Muslim thing. It's it's it happens to fucking everybody. There are tons of abused women out there who are controlled by their spouses, whether that's a lady who has to check in for every 10 minutes of where she is, or she'll get the shit kicked out of her, or someone who's, you know, made to wear something or whatever. But that the that this one garment doesn't necessarily indicate spousal abuse. And he's conflating it as though it does. And if you really want to free someone from spousal abuse, there is literally data that shows the best way to do that is to empower them economically. And I don't see Boris Johnson clamoring to sort of create social programs that transfer money to conservative Muslim women. So I don't think there's also

like a real lack of data to kind of show that women who like were previously like, you know, lived unbuckered free lives. You know, we're kind of forced to wear it upon marriage. So like, even I have a friend of mine who like runs like the biggest Muslim dating website, probably in the world called Musmach. And we were talking about this, we were talking about this a couple of months ago. And he's got a function on the website, which is like for women who like wear niqabs and stuff and want to get married. And he's basically kind of says like he there has been no case where like a woman who has been matched to a guy successfully, like who who doesn't wear a niqab like has been kind of all of a sudden like been forced to wear one, like

that's kind of like it's basically a non problem. Or it's a problem that's so minuscule that like you take it by as a case by case basis, and not as something as a trend. I think it's like what what it kind of what it what it was ultimately was like, it was kind of a rehash of like an Orientalist trope, right? The idea of like the liberated and the unliberated woman. And the idea that like, you know, if you show if you show like a lot of skin, but this, this is another thing too, right? Like so in this particular in this particular context, what he was basically trying to say is like women who show more skin are more liberated than women who like show less skin, right? But that's a really stupid and redundant argument, but partially because of

like the segment that you guys probably have like talked about next, right? Which is the idea about like, you know, clothes really do not number one, clothes really aren't like a good litmus test for liberation. And number two, like it completely ignores the idea that like fashion has always been like oppressive. And the history of fashion has like been one of it is route with like, you know, misogyny, you know, sexualization, sex like overt sexism, violent sexism, like, you know, in fact, you know, and fashion is like this huge British industry, like one that Boris Johnson will probably want to champion if he does ever become PM. So yeah, it's the same thing where it's like, it's like Brendan O'Neill is as quick to say that, you know, we should not

can we that we we cannot insult a woman for wearing the burqa, but then he's also out of the same side of his mouth will say that anyone who says that the tradition of like, you know, bikini clad grid girls at darts games or, you know, races or whatever, I guess the grid at a darts match. I don't fucking know. I don't know. I have no idea how these sports work. The cars line up with the darts game. I assume I don't I don't understand any of these sports and I don't care to Boris Johnson is the same guy who will say that no, no, we need grid girls. No, Boris Johnson, Brendan O'Neill and Boris Johnson, to be fair, are the same people say, no, we need grid girls. We it's all it's it's misogynist. If you don't have that, it's almost as though

it's almost as though scratch my head, sell me a bridge and take my wallet while an inspector people like Boris Johnson and Brendan O'Neill are just going to appropriate the language of, you know, people who are genuinely concerned with like, you know, genuinely concerned with misogyny, genuinely concerned with racism and so on, and just tool that language to sort of serve the opposite of its intended purpose. Hang on. Sorry, I have to go give my wallet to the wallet inspector for a second. Yeah, I completely agree with that. I get all I'm saying is that like the campaign to get grid girls to be at Yu-Gi-Oh tournaments is like a really important one to me. And you should be taking it more seriously. We need a sausage fest on the

grid. We need burkas for grid girls. Yeah, I mean, it's yeah, I mean, it's completely, I think that, you know, people like Boris Johnson are rightly met with like the fact that they are essentially just yet appropriating the idea of being concerned about women when really they're just like having a pop of the Muslims, right? The problem is, I guess, like, sometimes there is a point to be made that, you know, okay, there are certain structures which can be used in the oppressor of women, but that's also a very complicated issue. And that's often like, it's completely polluted with the problems of like white supremacy and people just not liking people who look a bit different. And also a conversation that shouldn't be like

led by a guy who like, you know, isn't necessarily like a champion for women's rights to begin with. Yeah, a man who looks like a scarecrow made of awful. I just have to quickly find an Andrew Lillico tweet. Andrew Lillico said, actually, sometimes the sexiest part of women is the eyes. It was just really horny about the burqa man. Oh my God. Oh my God. Oh my God. He was horny on main, but in like a super halal way. Brendan O'Neill's point of view is basically stupid. I mean, they're all stupid. But Brendan O'Neill is uniquely, uniquely asinine, which is basically like, oh, actually, what have you considered that other Nicob may be bad? Like, which is just, I don't know, lots of things are complicated,

fucking Brendan. And the fact that you just choose to simplify this into not Nicob good, Nicob bad, good girls, good, not good girls, bad, just shows that actually you basically don't care about personal liberation. You really just care about showing the totalitarianism anyone who dares to think in a structural way, which means you are once again, winning yourself the fucking gold medal of the dumbest British, British political pundit that fucking exists. Wow, man. Pairs Morgan, though. Second dumbest British political pundit that fucking exists. Call up the jewelry store, tell them, make me a grid. There's one, there's one more. There's one more take I want to read on this. This is going to be

quick before we hop in with with with with Molly and Juno, which is Andrew Lillico noted genius tweets about this. He says, you know, one thing I've noticed in practice when I visited majority Muslim countries, revealing was more common when you can only see their eyes. That makes women look really sexy. I'm feeling that's not entirely intent. Andrew Lillico out here, finna bust. Boris Johnson. Every time I look at a woman when I'm masturbating, I don't want to think about a postbox. What is up with that? Letterman bust. So Andrew, Andrew Lillico just out here trying to stay stiffed up about some HM letter boxes and just trying to stay hard, man. I've done a half a pill of MD and I'm trying to fuck this post box.

Stop killing my vibe, Boris Johnson. Trying to put my letters in the post, you know what I mean? Uh, Aidan, thank you very much for hopping in on this one. We'll include details to your show in the next episode and in the description of this one. There's so many details in the next episode. So many details. Lads, thank you for phoning in or hopping in. Thanks for phoning it in as usual. Yeah. And then let's enjoy our interview then. Subsequently, enjoy, but let's enjoy it with Molly Smith and Juno Mack, who have both written the book Revolting Prostitutes, which is out on Verso soon, where we're going to talk about sex work and all that good shit.

In the meantime, we'll see you later. Hi, this is Nate, the producer. You may remember me from all the times my name gets yelled and as followed by cut this please, we libeled someone again. We experienced some technical difficulties retrieving all of the files from the interview with Juno and Molly. So rather than leaving this episode hanging on the wire for the next week while we try to solve our terrible and completely on brand audio problems, we figured we would release this even though you were promised an insightful interview after 45 minutes of Riley and company drinking too much and talking and instead you will get nothing because that's the way it works.

However, if you want to attend Milo's comedy show, it is still ongoing during the fringe festival up until the 26th August. So go see Milo at Levita. It's on Queens Ferry Street Lane in the basement, of course, every night from 1815 onwards. You can also potentially encounter Riley. You might regret it. I will do my best to recover the audio so that we can have an actual interview in a normal episode of this very normal and very well produced podcast. But in the interim, I must say as the person who listens to this show in its completely unedited form, thank you for your patience. God bless you. In the future, when we institute fully automated luxury gay space communism, the four of us will be better at our jobs. I promise.