TRASHFUTURE - The Trinity of Melts

Episode Date: June 4, 2018

This week, Riley (@raaleh), Hussein (@HKesvani), and Milo (@milo_edwards) are back in the studio in the Caliphate of Tower Hamlets recapping centrist and extremist idiots' absolute dumbest takes on the Irish referendum results. They cover Christian ISIS, Classical Athenian democracy, and a lot of busting jokes. The gang also discusses Tommy Robinson’s recent legal issues, what sort of business literature is worth reading, and -- as always -- the ontology of soup and sauce. We live in neoliberalism and politics is over. Your only option to express dissent is to buy a shirt at http://www.lilcomrade.com/ Nate (@inthesedeserts) produced this episode slowly, deliberately, and with an ear towards avoiding a libel charge.

I am now live. You're not live. You're never live. You always say you're live, but you never are. Yeah, I'm live. I'm live for you guys. I mean, I'm not I'm not live for the listeners, but have we ever cared about our listeners judging by the quality of this show? Evidently not.

No, exactly. However, we do care about a little kind of music that Riley has rediscovered and it's going to be listening to all summer. Isis techno remixes. That's right. Riley has started listening to PC music again. Oh, that sounds like a recording of you throwing up into a sink.

No, I fucking love it. I love it more than anything else in the entire world. Before we started before we started recording, he he was like making me listen to some of this music. And all I could think to myself was I was like sort of this. It was like this mix between like the type of weird vaporwave music that dominatrix is make on soundclouds and the type of sounds you would internally make

as you were about to murder someone. And welcome once again back to this very hot day. Hot day in the caliphate of Tower Hamlets. Hot summer. Hot fucking babes. Hot dudes fucking Speedos in London. Fully respectable. Sure, Sharia, Sharia compliant Speedos. We are we are here.

No guests. Just us. Just some bullshit coming into your ears. The original original. Well, sort of the original lads. Charlie Palmer has been just has morphed into Hussain now permanently. He'll he'll come he'll come back when like someone when we're trying to do an IPO. So are we saying this podcast? This podcast is this podcast is like Facebook

and as much as no one's allowed to say white supremacy, but you're allowed to say Tower Hamlets nationalism or Tower Hamlets separatism. Yes, you're not allowed to listen to techno, but you are allowed to listen to PC music. I love it. I don't know why I just I fucking love it. I think you're probably listening to PC music. I think of him just listening to like music where all the lyrics is like really bland live identity politics.

Why would I listen to that? See, I only I only I only listen to I only listen to PC music and that only consists of two artists, which are Alanis Morissette and Corn. An ironic combination. The the iconic Alanis Morissette featuring featuring corn. It's like a wallet chain two minutes too late. Is isn't it ironic when you've changed your wallet to your pants,

but it's already empty when your when your magazine was founded with the name New Socialism or whatever the fuck. Oh, good. Wonderful. I'm going to be even I mean, what I'm going to do, I'm going to put a link to to a PC music playlist in the description of this episode because I just can't believe I haven't listened to it in so long and I can't believe how much I still like it. It's it also sounds like a sort of character from Balamori,

like a police station, like a policeman who's always like playing music. Like always that PC music. Sophie, I'm so sorry. What my clownish co-hosts are doing to your music. GFOTY, come on, Trash Future, please. I prefer the days when music wasn't so PC and everyone just listened to Guns N' Roses, ACDC. Yeah.

The streets listen to music that's explicitly about the thousand year ride. Well, yo, if we we got we got some anime soundtracks, we got we got some shit to we got some shit to cover today that I think may actually necessitate the playing of the least PC song in the entire world, Brendan O'Neill's theme tune, because we are going to be talking about him. But fuck it, let's do let's let's start.

Let's start by talking about the successful repeal of the Eighth Amendment. I think the overall editorial position of Trash Future is up. Fuck yes. Congratulations, ladies. You literally fucking pulled it off and it rocks. It was great because it was like, you know, in Ireland, it wasn't just kind of the anti-abortion, you know, the anti the standard anti-abortionists who came from like right wing religious wings that were supporting the anti-abortion.

Well, to keep the eight, but also very prominent members of like the alt right prominent members of like the American right wing YouTube intellectual dark web as they like to call themselves the biggest dumbest, smileiest Americans. Yeah. And they were like, you know, evangelical groups kind of linked the cock the cock brothers or the coke brothers, whatever you want to call them, who were like basically funding apps to, you know, you know, to try and mobilize the maintain the eight vote.

And they all got fucked over by, you know, they all got fucked over by very ordinary people and women who have been campaigning for decades, if not longer. So yeah, fuck, fuck for you. All right. Imagine all the people campaigning against the S vote were kind of like the Illinois Nazis from the Blues Brothers. I hate Illinois Nazis. What's the what I what I just what I could just absolutely love was just

gormless American Christians who've never left their country. Just flying over to Ireland being like, oh, gee whiz, don't you just love the Catholic Church? And meanwhile, they're like groups of people who like probably are affiliated with like the KKK, a major like anti-Catholic organization. It's like it's it's the the masks of the reactionaries are slipping and they're shown to be all the same people. You know, they're they're willing to put aside their anti-Catholic prejudice

to to fan the flames of their anti-woman prejudice. And that's basically just it. Now that's what I call organizing. They all lost and they lost brutally and they lost terribly. And it was beautiful to see. But there's there's a twist to this story, hasn't there? There is a twist to this story. There is a twist because because this isn't over when it comes to women

and what stuff is in their bodies. It's never over. It's never over. So we we just want to know what's in there. It's like when I go on the cheap and look like when I go on the tube and I very, very innocently and rightfully take out my tape measure. To measure the skulls of women on the rush hour cheap. I keep telling them I'm a harmless person who's just doing scientific research.

Yeah, you just want to improve society for women with certain kinds of brain pan. Now I'm banned from the set. Now I'm banned from the central line. So the mods of the central line decided your band turns out that the politically correct class and their PC music culture has won again. So what we've done is we have, just because the nature of our show is, I think, one of of criticality, we have assembled what I think to be a holy trinity of bad reactions to the up to the excellent referendum outcome in Ireland.

Because there's only because there's only one good reaction really, which is yes, good, this should have happened a long time ago. Yes, if your reaction strays from this, you may be in danger of a bad take. Well, it's, I got three. I got three here. Who do you want to start with? We let's let's start with John Milbank, the Christian jihadi. Let's spin the wheel of vaguely puse ham like material.

No, we can't we can't say that word anymore. It's we cannot say it because now the only people talking about it are like the extreme right. So it's like a situation where it's like if we're in a cartoon fight, like one of those big dust clouds, we've like stepped out of the fight and we're just sort of standing it and watching it because it's just like the right tangling with itself now. Okay, so John Milbank's take is Christians need to remember that

democratic decisions that negate the natural law have absolutely no validity whatsoever. The more regimes violate the natural law, the more they become tyrannies. One day they might have to be legitimately resisted by more than democratic means. Um, and this guy is a, I think he is a professor of some kind. He's a theologian based out of Nottingham. He is also one of the big brains behind this little project called a blue labor.

Yeah. Yeah. What can you explain to our listeners what blue labor is? I actually genuinely don't know because I thought it was a thing that happened in like 2015, but I think the principle which started with this guy called Maurice Glasman at the LSE and basically there's a whole unit based like the only blue labor people, the only people who will unashamedly identify themselves as blue labor, um, uh, with, you know, knowing that they'll

probably get laughed at, um, all exist at the London School of Economics. Um, and Maurice Glasman started it. Uh, and the whole principle was basically just like, it was one of the first iterations of like wanting to go back to like centrist left politics. Right. Um, but it's not even centrist left because a lot of their takes are just like really stupidly ridiculous, like verging on right. Jordan Peterson.

Yeah. Yeah. They're like huge fan, they're huge fans of Jordan and it's been at least 14 and a half minutes since someone started a centrist party in the UK. So they're like about time, it's about time. You know, they're big fans of Jordan Peterson. They have retweeted like stuff from like Stefan Molyneux several times. So they're, they're Brendan O'Neill labor basically where it's like they

reject all forms of, they reject, they reject Stefan Molyneux is like a Nazi, but with a chef's name. I think to be like a Brendan O'Neill type, right? You have to be, you have to at least be very conscious of what you're doing. Like there's a certain intelligence and like sort of knowing that this is, you know, there's a certain intelligence in that level of over stupidity. But I think with these guys, it's just like they're academics who want to believe that they're smart because they don't like their kids and they don't

like their grandkids. You know, there are types of people who are like, oh, you know, with, who really take the heart, the idea of that with age comes wisdom, even if like. But you know, Jordan Peterson got owned by a two year old child. The only issue is that like experience is that blue labor is just an organization that says, uh, if we want to be, if we want to implement any kind of economically progressive policy and we don't, that we need to get more racist, not that we need to get more economically.

They're like, they're like the big cheerleaders behind the whole like labor to this time, it's going to get racist. They're the biggest cheerleaders behind the whole like concerns about immigration stuff. Yeah, it's like, oh, it's like, actually we're going to win over, you know, what we should do is we should all campaign in blackface. That's how we're going to win over working class people, not by like giving them like better pay or more social coverage. No, we're going to campaign in blackface.

So anyway, back to John Milbank. Christians need to, and I want to emphasize this, Christians need to remember that democratic decisions that negate the natural law have absolutely no validity whatsoever. Ah, yes, the natural all natural law theory is like weirdly fashion, but he actually says that because like Ireland is just, you know, enshrined a woman's right to choose, um, that basically he's encouraging Christians to rot, to resist by more than democratic means, which I think implies violence,

which means that we finally have Christian Isis. Yeah, hell yeah. I mean, we did have Christian Isis, it's sort of in the 1980s in Lebanon with the phalanges move. You know, we were talking about this before we were recording as well, which is that we've now we're now in this position where it's completely fine and mainstream that Christian groups are less tolerant than hard line Islamists. And as a centrist Islamist myself, you know, someone who, someone who is

only here for rational debates and conversation. A normal everyday citizen of Caliphate. Normal everyday jihadism, you know, subscribe to my Patreon, it's under the link. You know, we take this position that if you're in a Western country, then you abide by like the laws of the land, right? The actual laws of the land, even when those laws change because of referenda. And what this guy is basically saying is taking a position that's even worse

than the fucking Taliban. Because even the Taliban are willing to sit at a negotiation table and say that we are able to respect at least a portion of the law. We're as fucking Jabhat al-Granpa over here. These Christians are just badass. They're anarchists as fuck. They look at the Taliban and they think hussies. Yeah, it's like it's, but the thing is also the great amazing thing is that the

Christians he's talking to are the like moon-faced Americans who, you know, never been outside of their small town and, and, and have come over to Ireland to try and like campaign to, you know, keep the Eighth Amendment on the, on the basis that at seven weeks old fetuses have a favorite Cohen brothers movie. And then, you know, the sort of people, people who are on the verge of death if they don't get like a Crestor injection every minute or the hardened arteries will just sort of shatter and then they'll go very pink and then very white. Right?

Like that's who is, that's who is Christian militia. Like imagine these people trying to run through tires. They would all either fracture themselves or in the American's case, just put their heads in the tires and ask if they've won the race. Anyway, I mean, it's an enjoyable irony that most of the most vociferous campaign is against abortion are themselves a great argument for it, isn't it? I guess, you know, there's, there's you know, we can at least be like happy to know that John Milbank is now the

intellectual force behind the Lord's resistance army. He wants to hook up these fucking people are going to hook up with Coney. That fucking rules like Coney, that's the great thing, though, is because he's going to be the comeback album of 2018. Because these Craig David of this year, because these campaigns are so deeply, deeply incompetent that like the way we're going to stop Coney is if the Lord's resistance army gets governed by these assholes, because they could fuck that up and only they could fuck that up that hard and it owns.

So yeah, that's that's number one take from from from Jabhat al-Grandpa. And thank you. Caller number one and blue and from the the Taliban and Melts party and blue labor. Our second take, the that was the father. That was that was the that was the father take. Welcome to the sun take SOM. You guys remember Matthew Goodwin, right? The man who ate the book.

This is the man who ate his Brexit book on live TV. Oh, fuck that guy. Amazing. Yes. Well, because when you said when you said the book, I assumed you meant something by J. Sheffield. Paul Joseph Watson also ate a book on on TV. No, he ate. He also ate sushi and milk.

Surely, if anything, he should have been a man. He ate raw fish and warm milk to own the lips. I hate that. I when he was is that when he dipped sushi and milk? Yeah. Oh, God. Yeah. So I mean, I do feel kind of upset by the hand. So more just like it's such a cell phone, like more than anything else, it's unpleasant for him.

Matthew Matthew Goodwin, a man who is whose diet is full of essential inks. Has said, referendums are suddenly back in fashion, not least among those who have spent the past two years trying to discredit one. Essentially saying that this is more or less the same as Brexit, that the again, the popular mobilization of like feminists and their allies to assert their rights over their own bodies to just have abortion as health care and a basic human right. Actually, it's the same as Brexit, which is not surprising coming from the crowd that thinks everything is Brexit and everything means Brexit.

And everything is reducible to Brexit. It's the same. It means breakfast, guys. It's the same thing that's got this sort of suffix on the end of every sentence. That oh, well, Trump and Brexit, Trump and Brexit, Trump and Brexit changed politics forever and everything has to be seen in that vein. Yeah. Nothing can exist like independently. Nothing can kind of exist within its own context and stuff, which is why

like I'm just waiting for a take about some random kind of, you know, fucking event in like Mongolia to be to be equated to like Trump and Brexit. The Trump phenomenon hits the Mongolian steps. The Trump phenomenon hits Chechen MMA fighting. Trump becomes like a horseback emperor of like the fucking Russian steps again. I told you, I for one am very excited for pastoralist nomadism to reassert dominance over the Caucasian steps. The pastoral nomadist party.

Didn't we talk about like on some episode a long time ago? Yeah. Didn't we have a talk about it with Phil Wang? Yeah, a long digression as to as to why we had to accept the idea that sort of nomadic pastoralism was probably an obsolete form of government in the Caucasian. As we know, the idea of a shirtless guy and a horse ruling over Russia is a long outdated concept. So but that's that's the mini version.

Now, here's the Holy Spirit of the of the bad takes because that Matthew Goodwin's basically the remainder who was like, ah, yes. Well, no, referenda may be maybe there. Maybe they they maybe they are are good, blah, blah, blah. Brendan O'Neill, on the other hand, has written an article in The Spectator, surprisingly, entitled Ireland's referendum shows that some people only like democracy when it gives them what they want.

So yes, that's the time when most people like democracy. That's not that's not unusual. To be frustrated with the system when it produces ends, which are just not desirable to you. Like, yeah, fine. Most people are frustrated with their wives only when their wives are like arguing with them, like, yes, OK, fine. Yes, it's the it's I mean, I'm sure there's a drill tweet about it.

But he says, so referendums are good now. The turnaround has been astonishing. The very people who have spent the past two years in moral meltdown at the fact that Britons were given a referendum on membership of the EU are now beside themselves with joy over the abortion referendum in Ireland. One of you guys tell me why this is completely pants on head backwards. Well, because first of all, most of the problem that people have with the Brexit referendum, although this is so overdone,

is that like the campaign was completely disingenuous. And most of the bases on which people voted was just like bullshit made up shit. And also that it was like incredibly narrow, whereas like Ireland, you've got like a landslide fucking result in in in like a referendum where people weren't being told that like abortion costs Ireland three hundred and fifty million pounds a week. Money that you put for abortion, put it into the NHS. We could be spending all of that on abortion.

We could be spending all of that money getting ourselves. We could be spend three hundred and fifty million pounds a week on abortions. Let's spend that money giving ourselves plastic surgery so we don't have such stupid skull shapes instead. Let's let's fix our sloping brow ridges. Right. Hussain Kezavani brow ridge clinic. It's that. But right. It's that there is there is a superficial similarity

and in that both of the both of the both of these sort of quite seismic decisions made by two English speaking countries were made via referendum and Brendan O'Neill. Now, here's the thing. Give give Brendan O'Neill some credit. Which is a phrase dangerous road to be going down. I really hope I would never have to say. If Brendan O'Neill some credit, he is pro-choice because he is a libertarian and many libertarians find ways to not be pro-choice.

Brendan O'Neill just loves raw dog in it. Yeah. And so, you know, it's so it's his belief in the outcome, I think, is more or less right. But his belief in its significance is just absolutely insane because he says that, you know, yes, well, the Liberals just like this one because it's a liberal thing they agree with, but they don't like the Brexit one because it's not what they agree with. Once again, I, Brendan O'Neill, have pointed out the hypocrisy of the liberal commentary

at because I am the smartest person who has ever lived. You theme song. Yeah. I mean, it was just, you know, it's not that surprising for him to like. It's for him to like take this position, especially because he thinks that it's surprising. He thinks that like, oh, it's very likely that, oh, he thinks that like this is a very contrarian take for people within his circle to have. And therefore, like, you know, he's an independent thinker and, you know, all that stuff. The real kind of form of idiocy goes back to what we were saying before

about the complete reference to like Trump and Brexit being the kind of the only thing that matters in our political discourse is if like no one else has had struggles and no one else is like, kind of like had these historical fights that they've had to like go towards, right? Everything is now diminished because it has to be referenced to like, you know, Donald Trump, you know, deciding to run for president while he was on the toilet one day or Brexit where a bunch of guys decided to like put a message on a bus while sitting on a toilet one day.

It's really toilet heavy. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and, you know, and really what it does do is like, it basically diminishes. It diminishes like this kind of decades long fight that Irish women have had. It diminishes like all the Irish women who have died as a result of like the anti-abortion policy who were like center of this campaign, especially in the last kind of couple of weeks, you know. But how many Irish women has the EU killed?

I mean, you know, come on, guys. Yeah. And, you know, it basically just diminishes that up to the point of like, oh, well, these guys, these people, these quote unquote women had a choice and you didn't undermine that you didn't undermine their choice whether or not they want to kind of, you know, carry children, they may or may not be ready to have. And that's exactly the same as wanting, you know, being annoyed that like the Polish news agent across your road doesn't like stock the right type of bait doesn't stop stock zoo magazine and like the type of bacon right time.

And so that's exactly the same thing. Brexit. It's just people being mad that they can't get that zoo or nuts magazine anymore without realizing that these publications have since closed down. It's outrageous. What the hell is a coal baster? It's outrageous. I can't see them tits magazines.

I have to go on this website. I don't want to hear these American women. Telling me how much they love it up, love it up, love it up the pussy. They call the fanny. It's called the fanny. And that's why Brexit happened. Exactly. So it's basically, Brendan O'Neill says, if you, if you are, if you continue to think

that sort of leaving the European Union is, is a bad idea and listeners to this show will know that I'm ambivalent at best about the sort of fight to try and stay in or at least to try and have a soft relationship. The EU is a capitalist club. It facilitates the movement of capital. It drains the poorer countries in favor of the rich, but it still does have many, many other benefits as well. We'll go into here because I don't want to talk about Brexit too much because everyone

does that every fucking day. It's that it's that Brendan O'Neill says, like it's Brendan O'Neill is doing the thing he does where he's being very logical, very smart, and he's earning every single IQ IQ link on his wallet chain. He's being full Rick and Morty pointing out that actually if you vote, if you voted remain, you believe that, you know, that the vote to leave the European Union was basically bad, that you cannot say that the vote, that the vote to secure basic human rights for Irish women was good because he, he either by ignorance or by sheer stupidity seems

to fail to see a difference between asserting basic bodily autonomy and getting mad at the polls, which is, I mean, also like this is just like this completely dumb, facile position that a lot of these absolute fuck sticks have in their head, which is that like you have to like love democracy for the love of the game, regardless of like the outcomes it produces, like it's so fucking dumb. It's like saying like, oh, you like football when your team win, you don't like it so much when they lose. It's like, well, no, like it's like this kind of ridiculous, like democracy is like a system

we use to achieve certain ends. And when it doesn't achieve the ends we want, of course, people don't like it. Like ancient Athens had referendums literally every fucking day and they had chattel slavery and women weren't allowed to leave the house most of the time. Like, do we think that's good because it's democracy? Like, is that a thing? Well, if you agree that women in Ireland should not have abortion, women in Greece should be like fucking chained to the house.

Like what? That's basically right. But I think that what you say also raises another point that was talked about by Melania McDonough when the Guardian decided to be fair and balanced and publish a no, a no, a no campaigner who said that now that Ireland has repealed the eighth, that's a bad thing. And she said it because, well, it's unfair because most organizations and people in Ireland were on the side of yes. So how could Noah have even had a chance?

It was actually her point of view. That is a galaxy brain fucking take right there. I was going to say it makes sense that Brendan O'Neill, like, doesn't really understand bodily autonomy considering the amount of times that I imagine he's found it difficult to, let's say, control his control his peeper while outside. Brendan O'Neill bodily autonomy is having the right to pull your trousers down to your ankles at the urinal. You know, while waiting outside a weather spoons, it is fedora and cord wallet

chains ready to explain to women what real liberalism looks like. Right. Hey, honey, you want to see something really liberal? But it's like, it's like, it's like the only they think that the only that society, they think that fairness in society means that every issue we need to be 50-50 on and then pick the conservative side because it's because it's right. Yeah, it's like, it's like that meme, right? Here's to the troops on both sides.

Here's to the here's to the troops on both sides of democracy from Matthew Goodwin, John Milbank and Brendan O'Neill, the man with a terminal case of galaxy brain. It's wonderful. I mean, I'm going to conclude, I'm going to conclude on this, this segment on what Brendan concludes. This all speaks to a quite terrifying attitude to democracy from on high these days, which basically says, if you little people vote for things we like, you can have them. But if you vote for things we don't like, like an exit from the EU, you can't

have them. You'll be made to vote again, or you'll be shut down, or you'll be called Hitler, famous Democrat. I mean, Hitler was a little person. Big man, the legitimacy of democracy is increasingly being determined by the whims and prejudices of small groups of powerful people. They try, they should try believing in democracy for real full time. Democracy is democracy. Alternatively, the course of actual politics is being increasingly determined by the

whims and prejudices of people. Exactly. And so by, by, by, by equating these two things, he's basically saying, no, we just have to worship process, except interestingly, where we don't, because, because the other, because the other, the other articles he's written, for example, are that Ireland's quote unquote, tolerant elite now demonize anyone who opposes gay marriage. So I guess you're not so much of a libertarian. Are you then, then Brendan, really, you're not, you really, you, you, you picked the issue that you, that you like, you like referenda, you think they're good.

You're now going to, again, seize on a decades long civil rights battle that has been won by, fuck you, the good guys are the good people, whatever. And now you're going to say, well, that means that Brexit has to be respected because Irish women fought their rights. You're now, everyone's like racism and anti is anti Muslim prejudice is now legitimized because fuck you. That's what the gay rights movement were all about, really. They were like, nah, Brexit's, Brexit's too big of a goal.

First we'll get gay marriage and then then we can achieve Brexit. So Brendan O'Neill from the bottom of my heart, go fuck yourself. Um, the people who know gay marriage, it's like, don't get gay married. Like very simple. Just don't do it. Like it's, you don't have to. You can not do it like other people are like, oh, I thought I had to suck dick. Now you've heard it before. You can not do it. It's fine.

No one, no Rocco Sifredi on this Mars. So I've got a few more. Hey, guys, you want to get gay married? You got to get gay married on Mars. You want to get gay marriage and do a Brexit, guys? I've got a few, a few things I want to hit now that we've done that. I've got a few things I want to hit. I wanted to, we have a listener question that I want to go through.

We've got the latest in the Chronicles of Stephen Yaxley Lennon or Tommy Robinson, as he calls himself. And then we have Elon Musk's meltdown progressing from stage three all the way into stage four. What people surrounding Elon Musk are being evacuated, decontaminated in special zones. Let's look, I'm going to get to I'm going to get like to worked up if we keep if we go directly from Brendan O'Neill into Elon Musk.

So why don't we do a listener question and then carry on? Elon Musk should have his own theme tune as well. Should we come up with one? Actually, why don't listeners come up with it? I think it should be something by the Lighthouse family. If you so, if you're a listener to this podcast and you want to suggest an Elon Musk theme tune, he's enough of a lower character now that we can have one sent in.

Yeah. Then I'd say send it to 10 to the DMs of the podcast account. YouTube link, please. And don't make it something I like. If you send PC music or techno, I'm going to block you. OK, special points of it from an an Elon Musk and a A.K. Arnold Schwarzenegger film. OK, we have a question.

Tons of love from the frosty upstate of New York. A general question. Do any of you have recommendations in organizational theory or stuff that's generally seen as business studies? And a question specifically for Hussein, how can coffee be a soup if soups are a sauce? I'm walking here. Jean or Jean Allen.

Jean or Jean. Thank you very much for your question. Hussein, start us off. Jean or Jean, first of all, fuck yourself. Soup is not a source. That's fan engagement right there. Soup is not a source. That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

Soup is not a source. Yeah, I'm sorry. Soup has stuff in it. Stas goes on stuff. Yeah. This is Platonism. And sauce is thicker. It's sauce is thicker.

So like if you're the ontology podcast, if you're drinking soup, it's as thick as a sauce. Like what's wrong with you? Like go get some help, man. That soup thicker, yeah. If you're joining, if you're, if you're drinking soup that's thick as a sauce, then you and John Milbank should get together to try and like, I don't know,

conquer a small country and like see instead some kind of crazy fucking republic because you are not welcome in polite society. Yeah, it's shit, man. That Donald Trump thick as a sauce. It's, it's weird. And the reason why coffee is a soup is because of the bean that it comes from

and the way that it's extracted and the fact that it's consistency isn't thin enough to be a broth. But it's not thick enough to be a sauce. Okay. It's a broth kind of a subset of soup or super subset of broth. They're definitely related.

Soup soups frequently contain broth, but broth can exist independently of soups. Yes. Yeah. But also soups, soups are like they encompass a lot of different things. So you can have a soup that's based off just one product, AKA tomato soup.

But if you add some milk into it, then that's another way you can add, you know, you can sometimes add milk into tomato soup as well. We say they're YouTube hungry because it's Ramadan. It is. I'm so hungry. I'm so fucking starving. You know what? I'm seeing like, I'm seeing all these like people,

these un, unhijabbed, un-burkered people on Bethnal Green High Street eating ice cream. And I just think to myself, maybe ISIS were right. And you just see them as giant ice cream cones. Yeah. I just, when it, when it's 5 p.m. and I'm walking back, when I'm walking back home, I'm just going to see people as like random things that I'm really craving.

And it'll be like really dumb cravings as well. So it won't even just be like your standard like ice cream or steak or something. Or do you think of something really dumb, like, you know, a stick of celery or like, you know, Pret Bone Broth. I love Pret Bone. They don't sell it anymore.

Do they not? Pret Bone Broth doesn't exist anymore. It was so good. It was dope. Wet Bone Broth. Bone Broth, man. No, that's actually what I call cup. The whole broth is wet.

Okay. But serious question. Milo, I know you accidentally went to business school briefly. So can you A, tell the story of that and B, give an answer as to any books and organizational studies? Because I have one and then we'll move on. All right, gather around kids.

It's it's fucking story time with Milo Edwards. Yeah, basically back in the day, it was, when was it? It was two, two, yellow, 14. I was, I finished my, I finished my undergraduate degree at one of those two universities that everyone's always talking about. And, and I really wanted to stay for an extra year just to like fuck about and do comedy and shit and sport.

And so I found out about this thing called the Management Studies Tripods, which is where you could do basically what was the MBA, but it was like a fourth year undergraduate course. And this course was basically, it was really easy to get onto and you could get a student loan. Okay, basically, yeah. So I ended up on this, on this course,

which was basically like 70% me and other like waste of fuckos who didn't want to do any work. And, but there was 30% people who were really keen and used to show up in like suits to lectures because they desperately wanted to work for J.P. Morgan so much. It was like their live stream. And so we used to just like dunk on those guys a lot

because they were fucking nerds. And they were also nerds of like the most pointless shit. So like all the lectures were just complete nonsense because pretty much all of the lectures were like jumped up former management consultants who'd gotten like PhDs from like the University of fucking Taco Bell or whatever the fuck in the US in things like efficient management and like random,

just things that just sounded like collections of sounds. One of them even had a, I had, I literally shit you not a black belt I'm doing square coats around that in something called Six Sigma, which is like an efficiency thing. And they give you like fucking martial art style belts in it. And so, and everything they used to teach you was either like complete nonsense

that it just wasn't true. Like all these like paradigms of business strategy, which then just proved to be, well then, but then the case studies would prove them to be untrue. Like, oh yeah, like being a dominant force in the market, like like Nokia was in telephones and then the iPhone just like fucked them. But they were like, they were like,

everyone had a Nokia and then suddenly no one had a Nokia within like a year, but anyway. And then, and then the other stuff they would teach you would just be like so obviously true that it's like, why would you even, they'd be like, okay guys. So sometimes if you raise the price of a product, people will perceive it as higher quality. And it's like, you are blowing my fucking mind.

Anyway, long story short, I scraped a 2-1 in that. And now I am a technically qualified business. I can do a business, I'm licensed to business. Ladies, let's do some business. This is I think as good a message as any as a lot of organizational studies or at least business studies are utter nonsense. But some of it can also be quite dangerous.

So this isn't really a book I'm recommending, but a book I'm recommending sort of that you be careful of and understand the roots of, which is Principles of Scientific Management by Frederick Winslow-Taylor. Is he one of the Nazi scientists? No, well, I can't say, I don't know what he was all about, but it was actually, it was a book published in 1911,

this guy Frederick Winslow-Taylor. And the whole idea was he was trying to create, he was looking at firms at the time and saw that employees would kind of realize that they had an interest in common of sort of slowing down their work so that the wage bill would have to be increased. So if your job is to move, you know,

X pallets of shit from one side of a room to another, you can require there to be more employees if you work more slowly. So in fact, the goals of the business, which is to move all this shit from one side of the room to the other, and the goals of the employees are completely at odds. Like labor and cap, shockingly, yes,

labor and capital are in conflict. Holy crap. But Taylorism is one of the key philosophies that has led to this sort of attempt to sort of control or fool labor into thinking that it and capital are on the same side. So by creating a hierarchical firm that has assigned sort of disciplines and punishments

that has very set down processes, but out from which you're not supposed to deviate, then what Taylor proposes to do is solve that problem. He's trying to square the circle of employees sort of slowing down work, collaborating, or doing things that are not purely processed in the workplace. Elon Musk.

Yeah, well, Elon Musk, he's also, I think he's Jeff Bezos as well. Like this really speaks of the Amazon firm, which is I think, you know, high tech Taylorism. And so I think if you're going to understand the ways in which organizations have kind of become so able to be so effectively anti-worker in the last 100 years,

the thing to do isn't to look at Silicon Valley, but rather to look at how Silicon Valley is just more and more Taylorism updated and updated and updated as the screws of control grow tighter and tighter and tighter. And the fact that your boss is now your motivational coach, as opposed to some tyrant, hasn't really changed the relationship of power

all that much, especially in the way that we're all controlled. So I think from a perspective, not from a perspective of it being a good analysis, but from the perspective of understanding our present moment, principles of scientific management is probably the best book to read. So anything to add on that? We never read anything that was that old.

We just got given like excerpts from like the fucking Harvard Business Review or whatever. We did like an operational psychology thing, which was like probably the least wanky bit where it talked a lot about like why people behave in the ways they do at work. And it was like kind of interesting because it was like written by actual psychologists

rather than just like fucking morons who speculate about stuff from having done like three years at BCG or whatever. But yeah, there was like a lot of stuff where like they try now the big fad is like trying to like motivate people at work and like get them invested in the work that they do, which is obviously like almost impossible

because the work that most people do is so terrible. It's like, oh yeah, well, if you fill out this massive spreadsheet for our huge corporate conglomerate client, then you'll get like a free beanie. Like is that, does that sound good? There's a book that I always refer to whenever I think about business things.

And it's this book that you might know, it's called The Game by Neil Strauss. I feel like it solves a lot of problems. I was just gonna say, if with you it was either gonna be the game or the Quran. I should really be the Quran, shouldn't it? Because of like Ramadan and everything. But no, I'm gonna go with the game.

Or anything by Deepak Chopra. I don't really read business books, so I'm not really sure. Okay, let's see, I'm hitting up against time here soon. So why don't we sort of just bust through the next? Why don't we just bust? Nice choice of words. We're gonna bust the show, just busting.

Why don't we just bust? Yo, okay. Hanking it really hard with the Tesla factory. Elon Musk's meltdown, here's the thing, in terms of the timing of this episode, we were recording it on Monday, the episode that you're on Sunday, the episode that you're gonna hear next

after we recorded this one with Dan Hancock's, we recorded it a couple days ago. So right now, as of the time of recording, Elon Musk's online meltdown has gone from stage three to stage four, where the offline enterprise that he has set up because he's mad at the news in order to carry out his promised online revenge,

it appears to be slightly exploding in his face. It's a moon laser. And so we're in stage four, which is the promised venture from stage three is inevitably an embarrassing failure. So his crusade to discredit the press in the wake of negative reporting about safety conditions and the safety of Teslas,

hit a snag when after he claimed to be the arbiter of truth, he recommended an article from The Knife of Aristotle, which is affiliated with NXIVM, that sex cult that that actress from Smallville was involved with. Oh yeah, that story was so wild that somehow in like the seven years between leaving Smallville,

she'd become like one of the main recruiters for like an incredibly dodgy cult. It's like he's being doctor logic, he's being, you know, epic bacon Supreme Emperor. My favorite adventure, doctor logic. He is being the administrator of the I fucking love science Facebook page. And here he is with all of his metrics

and his rational analysis. And he is retweeting basically a cult from like an article from like a swinging cult. It's hilarious. Oh, Roar, how is Elon Musk going to random lulls his way out of this scrape? Oh yeah. So I just wanted to do that quick little update

as well as say that it really does prove that my theory of online meltdowns occurring in four stages is basically true. In fact. It's not because he, the next, the big thing now is that he's basically like enabled a bunch of internet Nazis, right? So he's basically, he, he, he, he, he, he tweeted

at someone, who do you think controls the press? Oh yeah. And then all his app mentions were just filled with like alt-right people. Richard Spencer quote, tweeted him approvingly. He had a lot of like OVE memes and everything. Is there, is there stone cutters? We do, we do.

So he's basically now like enabled a bunch of alt-right people by following like the alt-right logic when it comes to the press, right? And just like with lots of, just with lots of, he's like centrist, liberal, like dipshits. He is just claiming that he was just having a bit of fun and that all he wanted to do was hold the press accountable and like isn't that a noble thing to do?

Well, we know what it is. This is what's something I think we were talking about before. The whole Elon Musk crusade against the media is basically one where he wants to do leveson in the States. But because it's the States, he wants to do a privately owned version of leveson. Yes. He wants to do, he wants to do leveson 2.0.

Leveson 2.0, Electric Boogaloo. You know, it's, it's that, well this, it's that for him media accountability means be nice to me, Elon Musk. And if you're, even if you're the article, even if you're an article that was put out by a sex cult, that doesn't matter because you're saying the thing I want you to say. It speaks I think to the emptiness of, of his,

of his belief system. Some smart people over at this sex cult. It's also like a very good taste in electric vehicles. It's, it's also a reflection of like tech bros themselves and how, you know, they've sort of been exalted in moderns, like modern society as being like the most intellectual, the most, you know, proficient and the smartest people on earth. And because he was able to launch like a weird car into space

and sell a bunch of like fancy techno cars or whatever, like whatever Tesla is, that he not only has like the intellectual power over everyone else, but he also has the right to be like the moral arbiter over everyone else. And he does so in like a way that, you know, with the way that you'd kind of be more akin to seeing on like 4chan, right, which is, oh, you know, because we disagree with a lot of what the press says, rather than like engage with like

points directly, rather than kind of really interrogate, because I think there's a lot, you know, I think there is a lot you can talk about when it comes to media interrogation and power and ownership and all that stuff, like those are really important conversations to have. The problem is, is when you reduce that conversation to like a Twitter poll, right? And effectively, that's what like Pravda, whatever he's

one of the cause it is, right? It's basically just like they're going to run a bunch of polls on who is more truthful or not. And then in the end, the only people that are going to come up on top are like Paul Joseph Watson and like Keemstar. Paul Joseph Watson eating a newspaper. Everyone's just going to get news from fucking Twitch streamers. A little pump.

I really want fucking Elon Musk to go full 4chan and decide that the solution to like dealing with the media is to like raid a bunch of Twilight chat rooms. You know, that's effectively what this site is going to be. And he's kind of, and he knows this. And that's the thing, like a lot of people are sort of saying that Elon Musk spends a lot of his time trolling and being funny and stuff like that, funny in quotation marks, because we've

spoken about his jokes and how bad they are on previous episodes. But obviously, like it's not this, even if it is humorous, it's like, even if he is trying to be humorous, it's this attempt at humor, which is inherently like quite vicious. And it's one where, okay, you've got this man who has a lot of power. As far as I know, he's still on like Trump's advisory board. So you still got left, I think he left, but he was for a long time. Yeah, but he's, it's very likely that he's still got connections

with the White House. He definitely is still kind of on good terms with Peter Teal. And we know what Peter Teal did with Gorka. We know what Peter Teal thinks about the media and we know that like his thinking about the media isn't like anything that uncommon in Silicon Valley. In fact, like it's pretty mainstream thinking in Silicon Valley. It's that it's that they, they have a kind, they have a belief system

that there is a truth out there. They have a positivist belief system in that by sort of applying technology, they can get to it more easily. And it's in his crowdsourcing. And that's effectively like, it's this belief that they've had since like the early 2000s about crowdsourcing being the ultimate means of getting the truth, right? And it goes back to these very big questions that we've had.

And we've, we've spoken about earlier in this episode about referendums and like how democracy works and like, you know, the kind of really weird, obscure, technocratic view of democracy, whereby it's ultimately like privilege that overrides like any sort of like moral duty when it comes to upholding democratic systems. I think that's basically right. And that basically nails it on the head enough for us to move on. Too smart.

To our final segment. No, let's be stupid. No, our final, our final segment. Stephen Yaxley-Lennon, in fact, you know what? I'm going to double dip in the spectator today. Stephen Yaxley-Lennon, aka Tommy Robinson, has been arrested basically for being a giant dumbass. He was arrested by the League of Shadows.

So now he's in some prison. And I really only said that so Milo could do the bait and brush it again. You adopted the race war. I was born in it. No, I should buy it. He is like Tommy Robinson is only going to escape prison when he can like climb out and jump over the fence at Belmarsh as all the other prisoners beneath him.

Chance, it's OK to be white. It's OK to be white. It's OK to be white. No, no, Tommy Robinson was arrested for the crime of speaking truth to power and being white and being British in modern Britain, where the PC police have made it actually utterly impossible. And also being under five police who produced some of Raleigh's favorite music and also being under five foot seven, which as someone

who's been arrested multiple times for being five foot six, like I completely sympathize with. So no, but why is cut jeans? I'm saying you kind of know why what why actually has he been arrested other than for, you know, being a heroic truth teller. Yeah. So there's a very simple reason, right, which is that number one. He's already on court. He's already on court probation.

And that was because he so since he's since he's decided to fashion himself out as a journalist, he has done. And yeah, a citizen journalist kind of identified himself as a journalist when he talks to sources, he identifies himself as a journalist. When Americans talk about him, they refer to him as a journalist. So he let's say for all, for all, Tommy Robinson think that journalism is like a gender and you can just be what you say you are like. Well, I mean, look, let's be charitable to him.

OK, let's, you know, this once we're being charitable to Brendan. We might as well be charitable to him. Yeah. Let's say that he is a journalist, right? Journalists have rules. You don't just show up outside a court when you get wind of like a case happening and then as the and then as a trial is still going on, you start asking questions to either members of the jury, people watching on the benches or worse, like actual kind of witnesses,

special witnesses, like there's a whole host of dangers that come with court reporting that make it very difficult. And when I was training as a reporter back in 2013, 14, part of my time was spent in court, where it's been hours in court watching and listening to cases to understand what you do and don't do in court. Right. There's this thing called contempt of court where basically like a whole like whole trials can collapse if the jury is considered to be prejudiced by any source of information outside of the courtroom.

That's the whole purpose of having a free and fair trial. And as people who respect democracy, people who respect the values of like, you know, legal systems, it's a thing that you abide by. And as a journalist, you kind of implicitly say so. The problem of journalism at the moment, among lots of things, is the fact that anyone can fashion themselves out to be a journalist and there's no professional accreditation to do so, which means that Tommy Robinson never had to do an NCTJ like I did,

never had to do like a broadcast media qualification, you know, never had to kind of get those professional markers to kind of show that you know how to be a reporter. Right. He's just a guy who works with a team who are good with cameras and he goes and like interrogates people and gets the answers that like his fans really like and they create content based that way. Right. So when you go outside of court and especially when it's a rape trial, especially when it's like a gang rape trial, especially when it's one is what

that was right and one that like is a racial like definitely racially like sensitive one, you know, there have been kind of like riots that have happened because of like race incidents inside courts, because people have provoked incidents from outside the space. And that's why courts are very conscious about making sure that people get their fair trial and put the restrictions on doing so. Right. He's completely ignored all of that. And he's ignored all of that for reasons that we know about.

But even if we didn't know what the reasons were for doing so, you don't interrupt a case while it's still going on. And the judge said very directly, like the case had not been finished. There was no sentencing that took place on the day that he was outside of court. So therefore, he was pretty much, you know, he pretty much violated a reporting restriction. There is a reporting restriction when it comes to cases that haven't finished. Right. And it's also why newspapers aren't allowed to report stuff and why

it's so fucking tedious to hear people on Twitter being like the media are reporting this stuff that's happening. Well, it's like, no, you can't. And there are very specific reasons for that, which journalists who have trained can tell you about. So now we're in a situation where his supporters, most of them, lots of them being Americans who aren't, who don't understand the British legal system and don't understand like that.

We do have court restrictions in a way that I guess US courts are not necessarily always subject to depending on what state you're in. Combined with British people who will literally just like support him no matter what he does, he could literally like take a shit on like a child's head and they would still support it as free speech for some. Our favorite, our favorite sort of free speech warrior and Nazi dog whisperer Count Dankula, who loves, loves free speech in all cases, except when people are celebrating that Tommy Robinson has gone to jail for breaking or is going

to jail for having broken the law. No, no free speech there. Thank you. No, it's only free speech. It's only free speech when you're dunking on my enemies. It's a mantra that I hold to, which is why I'm very happy if you dunk on Brendan O'Neill as much as you want. But the minute you dunk on my boy, Jake Paul, it's all over, man.

Moment anyone mentions the G word. Wait, does Tommy Robinson have his own like, Tweenie Bopper fandom anymore? At least he has a significantly diminished team. It's like a team four. Yeah, it's like team three or four. It's like we need all of these people defending like, you know, Tommy Robinson, because he's going to jail for one count of being brave. And, you know, how do you plead a hero?

And that's the thing. They're all kind of freaking out because they're like, oh, you know, so Lawrence Southern via another like right wing Canadian figure who doesn't understand how British courts work, who like in this to kind of, who like in the British police to being like a Gestapo. And if they were a Gestapo, they're like the worst, the most inefficient Gestapo in the world. If they're a Gestapo, they're definitely Colonel Clink's soldiers from Hogan's

heroes, he's always just getting pranked. But like the cop from Top Cap, right? You know, so she, she's just like, oh, you know, my friend is going to die in prison because the Muslims don't like him and they're looking, they're looking for any opportunity to beat him up and stuff like that. And it's kind of like, well, you know, maybe, maybe you sort of need to realize that like prison actually isn't good. And like, you know, supporting lots of supporting like, you know, supporting

immigrants who don't have papers to go to these maximum security prisons might not be the best idea, you know, why is Tommy Robinson so upset about going to prison given that, as we all know, they're like holiday camps. Yeah, that's another thing too, if you know, if people get what they want, and it's like, you know, it's a bloody laugh and then like, you know, why, why would they, why would he worry so much? I think it's one thing I want to do is I want to make it, I think I want to make it clear. I don't think my position is it's not that I'm happy that he's going

to jail because I don't think there should be jails. Right. So if I want to be morally consistent, which I do, then I can't celebrate someone going to prison when I think the carceral justice system is basically bad. But what I can point out is the sheer sort of the unmitigated hilarity of all of his supporters who like to campaign for like, you know, if a if a black or brown person puts a foot out of line, they should put in a cage for 20 years because, you know, otherwise the PC police when I can think that's fucking hilarious.

And of course my personal favorite, which is capital punishment for arbitrary things. I mean, let's remember that like Tommy Robinson just a few months ago were like, when like basically advocated for like the reinstatement of internment camps, like he said that without any sorts of irony, people actually did say to him, like, do you know what internment camp is? And once he saw it on Wikipedia, he was like, yeah, I still want them to take, still want them to happen, right? Yeah. So he's a big believer in prison. He's a big believer in like, you know, they're transformative nature. So, you know, what I say is in

the famous words of Cheryl Sandberg, lean in. What I'm personally, okay, what I'm more excited about is when he converts to Islam and jail. Yeah, that'll be dope. That'll be dope. Fucking smart. Yo, that's good. That's going to be sick. Tommy Robinson turning his most gammon shade to ensure the Muslims don't touch

him. Oh, he'll be, he'll just like join, he'll just join the rest of like, the ginger, like the ginger, like, you know, Islamic refit guys who Oh, he's totally like, that's the thing. He's going to go to jail. You know, there's a guy, you know, there's like a very famous Muslim preacher who looks like Tommy Robinson. I'm going to get you a picture of them now. You've never seen this two of them in the same place at the same time. Exactly. This is what I say. This is what I say.

He's playing both sides. He just wants to watch the world burn. I'm going to go, I'm going to go, I'm trying, I'm going to find it now because it's absolutely hilarious. Tommy Robinson with like a beard and a sort of like Islamic hat would just look like Ramzan Kedirav. Yeah, I mean, I don't know, I don't know where I don't know where to find it. Okay. If someone, if someone reminds me, if someone reminds me, I will send it,

I'll send it to them. Yeah, this is, this is, this is audience engagement right here. Who's saying we'll personally send you a picture of the, of the, of the, of the Islamist preacher that looks like Tommy Robinson. If your Elon Musk theme song wins, then you will get sent a personal picture of the Tommy Robinson Muslim preacher lookalike. We'll all sign it. We'll all sign it.

And a free picture of Ed Sheeran with Gigantism, aka Ramzan Kedirav. This is the new Trash Future offer. If you send us an Elon Musk theme tune and we pick yours, we will print off a picture of the Islamist preacher that looks like Tommy Robinson. We'll all sign it and then we'll send it to you. And that's going to be yours. That's going to be yours for you to confuse your friends with. And we'll think, we'll think of it, we'll think of a more special gift

if you get Riley a track suit. Oh, we can even make a meme of like Tommy Robinson and then the picture of the other guy next to him and be like you versus the guy. She tells you not to worry. Hey, you know what? If he makes a jailhouse conversion, who boy am I excited? And if he makes a jailhouse PC music, one of us. Who boy?

I'm also excited, but equally confused. All right, Tommy Robinson doing a racist version of the jailhouse rock. I got a bounce, fellas. Shall we call it there for today? Let's call it. All right, our family to yours. Our theme tune is Jinseng as always by not Jinseng. Our theme tune is Here We Go by Jinseng.

It's a great song. Check it on iTunes. Check it out early and often and commodify your descent with a t-shirt from Lil Comrade. Buy that shit. If you do get a t-shirt from Lil Comrade, you get custom text, send it in, and we'll shout you out on the show as and when I remember. And keep those questions coming. I like answering them later, everybody.

In the words of friend of the show, Jake Paul, Barat, Merch.