TRASHFUTURE - The Upzone of Interest feat. Dan Boeckner

Episode Date: May 13, 2025

Dan Boeckner’s in town, so he joins us to talk about the ongoing trade chaos, the new plan by the Charter Cities Institute to make a sparkling tech enabled immigration detention centre / San Francisco competitor on a very controversial Navy Base, and finally we look at the just-released immigration white paper, where Sir Keir Starmer KC Human Rights Lawyer and Saviour of Sensible Politics comes juuuuust close enough to quoting Enoch Powell to raise an eyebrow. Get tickets to Dan’s show in London on Sunday here! https://wegottickets.com/event/655273 Get more TF episodes each week by subscribing to our Patreon here! *MILO ALERT* Check out Milo’s tour dates here: https://miloedwards.co.uk/live-shows *TF LIVE ALERT* We’ll be performing at the Big Fat Festival hosted by Big Belly Comedy on Saturday, 21st June! You can get tickets for that here! Trashfuture are: Riley (@raaleh), Milo (@Milo_Edwards), Hussein (@HKesvani), Nate (@inthesedeserts), and November (@postoctobrist)

So, they say when God opens a door, he also closes three windows. With the door open to not only the first American pope, but the first Chicago White Sox fan pope, and in fact, the first pope from Dalton, Illinois, God has closed three windows. So this is a fond RIP to Simon Mann, who has died. This is also an RIP to the American experiment in creating an autarkical economy, April 2025 to May 2025, forever in our hearts. And of course, RIP to Keir Starmer's almost assured victory in the World Series of capitulation, which will now roll over into game seven as Trump basically gives up the majority of his tariffs on China. We thought Starmer had clinched it, but no, Trump's back in the game.

Nothing ventured, nothing gained, I guess? What got Simon Mann? Did his parachute fail to open over Yemen? What happened? He's not that old, right? He had a heart attack! Oh, fuck! Yeah, Simon Mann, the man on the ground in the 2004 Wangaku in Equatorial Guinea that

he planned with Mark Thatcher has died. Oh, man. They got him with the heart attack gun. Yeah. The Equatorial Guinea CIA got him. The JDPO-NCIA got him with the heart attack gun, I'm afraid. Weirdly well funded. Some call it just the normal CIA.

Yes, welcome to this free episode of Trash Future. It's all of us today, in fact. It's November, it's Hussein, It's Milo. It's Riley. And joining us in studio, it is Dan Beckner making his many-eth time appearance on this show and our many, many-eth time on the mics together. How is it going?

It's good. Every time I come to London, I land at the airport. I spend a normal amount of time getting to the city of London, like two to three or four hours getting to my destination. London like two to three or two four hours Getting to my destination and then I come see you guys completely jet-lagged. Yeah, that's right They're calling it the most dissociative podcast and feeling really normal right now And then we're gonna try we're gonna try and fix you by taking you to dinner where you will fall asleep in your plate

Exactly. Yeah, we got we got a We got a lot to talk about today. I was gonna make a joke about small plates. I couldn't think of it, I'm sorry. Well, because you're jet lagged from being a father. You're dad lagged. That's right. Dad lag is real. All I was gonna say is this,

I hope they take you to a normal place restaurant so that you can rest your head properly. I think we're gonna order everything on the menu, so there'll be a lot of small plates for me to put my head on Just trying to order something, you know is going to be a soft landing like a flown or The classic custom and I have a big bowl of marshmallows, please I'm kind of sleepy. Excuse me I'd like I'd like your largest raviolo. I've just flown in this morning

Largest raviolo. I've just flown in this morning. Yes. Hotels hate her. This one weird trick. If you book a reservation for eight hours and order a big bowl of marshmallows, they can't stop you from falling asleep. Can I order the big feather raviolo, please? That's why they're all mad at the refugees who are staying at the five star hotels in Skunforb or whatever, because they all get a big bowl of marshmallows. Honest bristens and our veterans to stay in restaurants face down in a big bowl of marshmallows. My dad Falklands veteran went into a travel lodge, ordered a bowl of marshmallows so he could have a kit, they brought him a bowl of cereal by mistake, he drowned.

He didn't look before he put his face down. I'm really looking forward to possibly going to Mangal too, and then seeing you fall asleep in the big pile of free bread that they gave you. It's gonna be great. But we have a lot of news to cover. I have one of the most unusually named startups that we're going to talk about. The bold promise. Well, you know what? It's going to deliver. All right. I promise it will deliver. All of the chips being pushed into the center of the table.

That's right. I'm going all in. Much like at the small plates restaurant, when you get your big bowl of marshmallows. Yeah, of course. And all of my eggs in one basket, so I can smash them with my face when I fall asleep. The capitulation of Trump on the China trade deals

means a few things. Number one, it means that our capitulation of Trump on the China trade deals means a few things. Number one, it means that our capitulation to him now looks yet more pathetic. Awesome. I'm really enjoying the beginning of the Chinese century. I'm fully prepared to open Duolingo Mandarin and fuck up once again. Because it really does seem like, it's all going very well for them, and not very well for the US. Particularly if you take American Pope, not just a rebuke of JD Vance, the most hated man in the world by everyone else in power, but also as a sort of consolation prize for

the decline of empire. NARES Well yeah, because ordinarily, you don't get popes from the global hegemon that much. Yes. Yes, exactly. You don't want a sort of lockout, right? You don't want the president and the pope. That's too much. I was on Saturday Night Live, was it, two nights ago, and as we were doing rehearsals,

I got it in my head that it would be funny, like a good bit that I could do would be to rip up a picture of the woke pope, get a sort of reverse chainade. Fight the real enemy. Fight the real enemy, which is the woke-ism in the Vatican. And I was told, and I tweeted about it, and I was told in no uncertain terms of my management that that was a bad idea. And then, when we went to the actual dress rehearsal, there were no fewer than three woke pope bits. And I was just like, come on. Risky, risky for SNL to do a woke pope bit.

Or to really talk about the pope. Agree. Yeah, also like, yeah, they probably wouldn't be, I don't know, I don't know anyone. Like, I guess like Pete Davidson, like, does Pete Davidson get did This Pete Davidson gets me the woke poke in the skirt like you know I think Sarah Sherman was gonna do a woke pope thing and they were like no, okay I am because the thing is nobody really like understands how woke this pope is or isn't and because I got really Invested in the conclave. I had like a parasocial relationship I'm sort of sitting over here like kicking a stone across the road being like, well, I don't know, he's pretty woke.

Free-woken, I guess. I think the joke is he's not like at all woke. He's less woke than Francis, and I think the reason, the only reason like the zone is being flooded by like people like Laura Loomer, just writing all caps, woke Marxist Pope. That was a tweet that she made a couple days ago. I hope that makes him woker. I hope that pushes him.

The only reason is because he hates Vance. That's it. So it's check. Check this shit out. The Catholic Woker. I like that. Oh, that's good. But so as I say, RIP to the American experiment in autarky.

You lasted six weeks, but what a six weeks it was. Yes. What if I turned off the also pilot and decided to fly the plane manually with every control surface, and also I change my mind about what I want to do with them every week. Every couple of minutes, I guess. What if what I do is I set every sort of slider to minimum or maximum and turn every button on.

Let's see what this does to the plane. Yeah. Yeah, pushing the big wings fall off button on every sort of passenger seat. Which is always having it pointed squarely at the ground. Yeah, pushing pushing the big wings fall off button on every every sort of passenger seat Which is always having it pointed squarely at the ground. Yeah 100% mmm-hmm. It's been it's been a thrill ride because remember you always have to remember right? They're gonna do I'm gonna do a couple sort of facets of this because you remember from the American side But they said was we're gonna reduce income taxes zero tariffs are gonna fund everything Everyone's gonna want to play with us cetera, etc, etc. And it's like, oh yeah, no, this was all just a negotiating position for China, it was actually

5D chess, they'd accept a 30% rather than a 145% tariff. But they still control many of the rare Earth medals, which they said they're not going to be releasing. Well, if you were a Trump guy at this point, you're in a sort of month-long sine wave between tariffs are based and art of deal. And you would switch between those two, whether or not the tariffs were on or off. And so, like, my question is, what are the children going to do instead of screwing the tiny screws into the iPhones as generational laborers for Howard Lutnick's than, like, generations of factory

owners because that plan now seems to have been reversed enough so that you won't make a material change, but not so reversed as not, don't make a material change in that sense, but not so reversed as you have not now done incalculable damage to the global economy. It's a, think about it this way. think about it in terms of climate models, right? Where there are different pathways and some are steeper than others. You still have a decline baked in, but this is the kind of mellow decline where you get to keep much of your treats, things get a little worse every year, but it's not the

kind of... Well, exactly, yes. Well, on the upside we did get a great Trump press conference out of this where he was like, we've got a beautiful store, okay, I'm the shopkeeper and we've got a beautiful store. Everyone wants to come to our store. Okay. He just wants to go shopping with the girls. It's so cruel that he has to be president. But what then flips that onto the other. So we talk about the UK trade deal, which makes this even more hilarious. We were the first people to line up in the capitulation line two days before

the strategy of retaliate was basically proven to be the correct one. So humiliating. Tamping out for the new iPhone, but for capitulating to Donald Trump. And all it took is importing a bunch of hormone beef. Yeah, well not just hormone beef. BA is now gonna buy Boeing planes, so... Oh, sorry guys. Yeah. Excited to, excited to A, die, and B, at least now I have a second kind of hormone beef with Kiyosama.

Yeah, yeah. Speaking of steep decline, importing Boeing planes... That's right. Also, I mean, this was astonishing, which was as well as part of this deal, which by the way, the rules now of global trade are that the trade war is now no longer raging, but the trade piece is all, here it is, it's 2017 Donbass, basically. We have a frozen trade war. The trade war that can be told is not the true trade war. Yeah. And I'll give you an example of how this is probably going to work, which is that under the terms of our deal with the US, right, the US is allowed to have oversight and out-effective

veto over any major Chinese investment in the UK. Oh good. I mean, not that they didn't already have and exercise that with Huawei, but interesting to see it formalized. It is now formalized in the sense that it can be like, all right, all of those manufacturing jobs that you saved at Jaguar Land Rover, again, it's like, this is not the largest part

of your economy, but it's one that's symbolically important to the government. All those jobs now, the US can just turn them off again. And there's a sort of semi-statutory or semi-sort of contractual method for them to now do that. Yeah. So there'll be like a carve out for like Elf Bar, which will no longer be produced in Shenzhen. And instead it'll be a return to 1890s London, but instead of like tannery vats, it'll be orphans storing a giant cauldron of poisonous nicotine juice.

Yeah. Yeah, of course. I work at the Elf Bar Factory, sir. It's my job to pour the blue ras into the big vat. It burns me skin horribly, sir. But it's worth it for the trade deal. Yes. It's worth it for the pittance that I earn on a daily basis. That's what Mr.

Stammer says. They call it the Elf Bar, but I'm actually quite ill. I'm going to get a job at the lost berry factory. I hear it's better. So basically now that we're entering, as you sort of point out, Nova, we're entering the Chinese century, I think pretty much faster than even like the top brass of the CCP expected. Like they thought we'd be here by 2050? Filed the Catholic Church and the Communist Party of China in the same box as big institutions I wish were woken. The Chinese CCP just sat around just being like, no, it's good, I just didn't expect it to be Chinese this soon.

It's like, no, we were clear on the becoming Chinese part of the timeline. Essentially it's a hundred years. We thought it was starting in 2050, but you know, I guess they're done. Obviously we've been Chinese for a while, but we just didn't expect everyone else to catch us up this quick. It's sort of your brother throwing the Xbox controller on the ground rather than waiting for you to say mum says it's my turn on the Xbox. It's like a stupid game, I hated it anyway, just after dying into the boss like the fifth

time. Like I fucking hate Dark Souls, it's actually too easy. I'm gonna go see my girlfriend, who's real. Anyway, so if there is to be, if there's proposed investment by Chinese companies in British ones, which again, there would increasingly probably want to be given- Oh yes, and to be clear, it would be investments that, to an extent, would also be susceptible to their own pressure, as we saw with British Steel, but may also work, as Huawei did, and the collapse of that Huawei deal was part of why you can't make a phone call in central London

anymore. Oh good. Yeah. I love living in a global city where you're like, I hope I'm not behind the park that blocks all the signal. Again, this is kind of not to even valorize one superpower or another here, but it is interesting that Britain's place here is basically we decide who we get to grovel to. Yeah. Maybe this is Stammer's position.

Maybe maybe actually he's the one who's playing 5D chess and he realizes that Britain's like future role is as a kind of like sniveling vassal state. And what he's actually demonstrating to the Chinese is that we are the most cucked nation on earth and therefore we're the most trusted court unit. Yeah. And by that, the most talented boot lickers in the world. Exactly. We'll lick your boots so much better than everyone else and that's why you should

give us a little chair. Yeah. It's like, well, it's easy, you know, like, you know, the business thing is very much like we will give you whatever you want, but just like, just talk to us, just, just like, give us some attention. Yeah, look, we, we just want to be involved. But we also, but crucially, both of these two, these two superpowers are quite jealous and we can't make up our mind. And we've, it's sort of like failing the art of the deal, right?

Because you, you don't play them off against each other. You just kind of frustrate both of them at the same time. Like, you don't give China their big fancy new embassy, but you also sort of like, don't give the US everything they want either, and it's just, it's a mess, the whole thing. It's the too-daddy problem. Yeah. Exactly. And it is amusing to see it play out in real time when you're looking at one side, specifically, you know, the British side, being so enraptured by, like, what the opinion of the Telegraph is going to be and how that's going to influence the, like, 20% of people that they want to vote for them to then carry it out this way.

It's also, it's not just the Telegraph, it's also the kind of instinctual Atlanticism, and the kind of pursuit of this dead dream of Atlanticism. And I really think that the best thing that we could have done after, you know, a successful Corbyn run or whatever would have been to go back in time, 20 or 30 years, and really in Colgate being a weeb but for China, in the upper echelons of, you know, the British deep states, right? Like, we should have been going around showing cool Chinese stuff to everyone on a PPE course. I wish Canada had have done that, but we're lost.

It's over. Yeah. The funny thing is, it's always worth remembering this, we did do that, we just, unfortunately, we wrongly targeted the artillery that fires the shell that turns you into a weeb for China, and it hit David Cameron and George Osborne. Or just another thing that they managed to fuck up. Yeah. Well, Canada did the same thing. It hit Stephen Harper.

To the tune of American Woman, Canadian mix. At least we have that one warehouse in Richmond that's part of the only North American node in the Belt and Road project that everyone seems to forget about. It's just, we wrinkle history a little bit, and Prime Minister Corbyn offers to become an external province of the PRC. Look, you don't have the one island, can we offer you another? Perhaps. Substitute Taiwan.

It's almost as good. It's not. It's almost as good. It's not. It's not. Also, I've held off on talking about him, but the one of the candidates for lead for leader of the Greens, Zach Polanski, is actually saying, well, now there's just no point in continuing being in NATO in its current form. So there's one non-Atlanticist voice in British politics and it's someone who might lead the Greens.

At least someone's fucking saying it. That's good. All right. No, let's move on. I have one more piece of news, which is of course an update on Adam Newman's business flow. Now you may remember Adam Newman started a business called WeWork and it went really well. Mm hmm. It went super good. Famously worked. Yeah. We in fact worked.

After he left WeWork, I assume parting on mutually agreed terms, Adam Newman received $350 million from Andreessen Horowitz to start another version of WeWork, but that's more geared towards apartments. Yeah, so he has $350 million for 20% of the company. Andreessen Horowitz invested even more. And they've used that to buy like five apartment buildings, which seems like not quite so many. No. Didn't we talk about how BlackRock owns about half of the rental, like residential rental

in the US? Yeah, so BlackRock owns a huge amount of residential rental, including a lot of single family in certain cities, but Adam Newman is basically, his strategy is take a pretty gigantic amount of money and then buy and remodel and fully furnish apartments in three buildings in Miami and then two in Riyadh. Wow. Riyadh, no less. Maybe not in Miami or Riyadh, but I've been in apartments like this, the kind of very

corporate, very sterile thing where it's like you just need somewhere to live that's by your office and it comes with everything, there is no personality that you can apply to it and they will charge you if you try, and you live in the box and it's usually a converted form of like office building which is completely uninhabitable. And it's like a deeply psychically sick place to live and it's horrible. I stayed in one of those in Toronto when my friend was filming a movie and I was making a, I was producing somebody's record and I was like, he said, you know, they're giving me this massive apartment, like you should stay with me. And the vibes in there were so rancid that we both were like,

let's just get a separate Airbnb. And this is, it was in like a sort of occult hell triangulation between the CBC building and the CN tower and like cluster of Starbucks. It was awful. Flow is a little different because it's, it's we work doing it, right? It's Adam Newman. So what he's done is he has taken circa 2011 millennial pink aesthetics. He has brought them, brought them into these sort of mid 2020s for the cost of only hundreds of millions of dollars, and then says, we have a bunch of AI software that enables us to manage these buildings without staff, possibly.

Let's see if that works. That's going to be so cool, because again, having been in some of these that have human staff, you need them if you ever want to say, get anything delivered, because part of the whole aesthetic of the thing is that the name of the building is the whole address. It's always like, VX, right? At whatever. And you just cannot get a delivery there, and you have to go and sort it out with the front desk. But I'm excited to see that that's gonna be replaced with something that is the Chaos Machine. So the idea here is to combine J.G. Ballard's high rise with the middle third of 2001 of Space Odyssey.

Yes, that's largely correct. The people who you will see coming in are largely like the people who put on the things that Adam Newman thinks are worthwhile. It's like, oh, it's got yoga classes and it's got tenant experiences. We could do beach cleanups and book clubs. Like it's him trying to do exactly what he did with WeWork, which is I want to make kibbutz living in America. Yeah. Basically, but doing it, getting his second go at it, cause he got so much money.

The yuppie kibbutz is one of the worst things. He says from day one, we, and basically, so this is, this is an update where he's now sort of mooting going public with it again. Changing, changing Twitter display name to Lanyard Kibbutznik. Grok, how long do I barbecue my dog for before it's safe to eat? From day one, we embraced the challenge of rethinking residential real estate from the ground up.

To achieve our mission of connecting people to their community, we needed to reinvent the entire experience. And so the idea is they want to try buying up whole neighborhoods. So far they've only bought buildings and then turn them into these like AI adapted living environments that you can only rent from, but you also get a cryptocurrency that you can like spend on experiences. I know, like not to sort of be controversial or anything, but I feel like, I feel like you don't really need to reinvent the way that people live, right? I don't think that's something that you need disruption for.

I feel like it's a fairly... It's nice having a home. It's nice having a house and no one... I used to work in a WeWork and it was sort of... I wasn't there during the peak period where like... Because there was a period of time where if you were in a WeWork, you had to sort of partake in at least like two things that they offered. So like you would have to do yoga or you'd have to do like fucking, I don't know, like Friday movie night or something like that.

They would like, part of your tenancy agreement if you were a company there or if you were like a contractor there was like, you have to do the shit that like we want you to do. And imagine like fucking, because that's like one thing to sort of like kind of be coerced to do it at work, but at least you sort of get like whatever. Cause like at the time they had like, you know, free beer and stuff on tap. So at least you could sort of do that. But like, imagine like Tristan is trying to like chill out at your house and then someone knocks on your door is like the most annoying guy in the world. And he's making you like, he's saying, well, part of your like tenancy agreement to live in this very expensive city is that you have to do fucking yoga flow.

Or whatever. I'm getting evicted from a building named The Cambridge in Riyadh for not paying Bitcoin to participate in my mandatory mocktail class. Oh yeah, that's right. We go to get mocktails after the yoga class and you can only pay in Bitcoin, but everyone's really pinchy. So it's just like, yeah, you've got to like pay 0.0665 Bitcoin. And I can't really spot you unfortunately. So you are going to have to pay that or at least like Venmo.

I didn't fucking know. Two times a month or else. That's right. So just so we know that is 0.0065 Bitcoin times 100 and to 740. That mocktail is $700. Yeah. In Riyadh, that's right. That's part of your rent.

Yeah, it's true. It has a single sheet of gold leaf curled artfully into it. It does have pistachio on it. So like, you know, about $1 increased. It has some kind of Dubai chocolate tie in. Yeah, yeah, yeah. With two locations in Miami and Riyadh, I feel like Adam Newman is really challenging

Pitbull on how serious he is about being Mr. Worldwide. They're calling it the most resilient to climate change company in history. It's also a list of what you can kind of think of as annoying cities. And there are a few brands that are like this. Like if you know the hotel brand The Standard, they... Nice hotels, however, a bit like this, and also if you look at the number of their locations, it will be a list of annoying cities for dickheads, right? London, New York City.... And so, it just, I feel like this is already a crowded space that Adam Newman is positioning himself in. Maybe this is part of the plan.

Maybe it's like a producer style thing and he's like, well, if climate change destroys all of the locations, the insurance money will bail me out. And that's actually the business plan. That actually makes sense. Yeah. He should hire me, actually. The Adam Newman update is Flow, it's now more clear what it is, where it is, and that he wants to IPO it. I'm really excited for the S1.

That's gonna be great. I'm very excited for the documentary. Maybe not unlike the producers, this will be extremely popular despite his attempts to make his own. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, everybody loves being coerced into going to the mocktail class. They're opening a third one in Transylvania, the Dracula flow. Startup. Startup is called Guantanamo Bay.

No. No, it isn't. Don't lie to me. I'm not lying to you. It can't be called that. In many ways, in many ways, the original Guantanamo was a startup, and they were moving fast and breaking things and breaking people. I mean, if you don't know anything about politics, Guantanamo Bay sounds lovely. It sounds like somewhere that there is the standard.

I'm gonna read from the white paper. Guantanamo Bay is a 45 square mile site leased by the United States under a long-standing treaty with Cuba. Yes, yes, I've heard this. Historically associated with a naval station and more controversially a detention facility, this parcel of federal land on the Caribbean coastline presents a striking opportunity. No. Come on. Fuck off. No, I will not. I will continue reading from

this white paper. Opposite opportunity to reassert US global leadership and reimagine urban governance. I'd love to do that. By transforming... No, I see immediately what they're trying to do. They're going to try and take all of these expensive, now mostly empty, former torture centers and go, what if we just put a special economic zone here and we built Singapore off of Cuba? It's terrible.

There's no American jobs torturing people anymore. They're doing it all in China. Okay, we need, we gotta bring it back. We outsourced it all to Egypt. We don't know how to do it anymore. That's a really good like third position communist type beat to be like, I'm like gravely offended by the Chinese government's human rights abuses because they're taking away jobs from American human rights abuses. Baba Vakian?

I mean, it's kind of true in the sense of like, they've already like outsourced, they've already outsourced like a good amount of butter to El Salvador, right? Support all the torturers, both sides. I just love to see good clean torture, you know? They call it extraordinary rendition, I say, I don't think it's that good. Yeah, pretty average rendition, if you ask me. Yeah, that joke does not get a laugh on the rendition flight. Using chat, GPT instead of reading the Kubarck manual front to back. Yeah, it's just making up position.

So by transforming Guantanamo Bay into a charter city, the US government can catalyze economic growth, manage immigration flows and project America's unpassed and parallel capacity innovation statecraft. I hate when I predict the thing. Yeah. Okay. So I heard the words manage immigration flows and I'm immediately thinking concentration camp.

Uh, yeah. With a twist. Oh, that's fun. It's not a twist. A little twist. This isn't just any concentration camp. This isn't your mom's concentration camp. Okay.

This is, this is the kind of concentration camp that if you asked the mayor of Miami to think up, he would invent. Oh, okay. There's going to be a flow there. Oh no. Guantanamo Bay. Let's go. Let's go.

This white paper exam is the practical steps by which Guantanamo Bay can be repurposed for advanced manufacturing research, development and real estate. Raising, raising hands. It is a former military site. Isn't, aren't all of those incredibly contaminated with everything because the waste disposal policy in the military is a private, go and bury those strange barrels. Yeah. It's like a, the new, the decommissioned New Orleans Naval base is uninhabitable for longer than Chernobyl. Like, yeah, yeah.

So truly there were some bad lieutenants on that. the Netherlands naval base is uninhabitable for longer than Chernobyl. Like, yeah. Yeah. It's all, it's like. So truly there were some bad lieutenants on that particularly. I'm gonna level with you here, November. The Charter Cities Institute, which supported the city Praxis, it supported the city also Prospera. Which is real. Yeah. It supported Prospera.

The same people behind Prospera are behind this, basically. And I did think this. I did think, but after the Charter City thing, like, this is like one of those fucking weird tech guy like fantasy. These stupid bastards, right? They have a sinister institution that tries the same evil plan in a different exotic location every couple of years. This is Spectre. They are Spectre. These are James Bond villains.

But this is also like another example of how they've also run out of ideas. I like this connects to like Adam Newman trying to do we work up the houses like the exact same thing. Ah fucking what's-her-name? Elizabeth Holmes is like husband like trying to do Fahrenheit nose 2 again. Like they're evil, but they also don't have any ideas other than let's just try the thing again and maybe this time it'll work. Yeah, if you want to have new ideas, be they good or evil, you must become Chinese. That's right. That's another James Bond thing.

Yeah. You're right. You are right there. Like the only place where new things are happening is in China. And meanwhile, like, you know, in the West, like we're just trying the same dumb shit over and over again. And it's like, yeah, this time we'll get the torture camp right. All of our guys are washed.

None of them can make a huge meal in a big cauldron with like a boat tour. None of them are drinking beer by swirling it around in a tornado. It's crazy how no one, no one even adopted that. So basically the other thing, that's what I think really is with the Charter Cities people, as you say, they have one idea and they're never giving up. They love that idea. And the fact that like none of it has really ever worked in the way that they wanted, right?

They wanted Prosper to be a real city by now. How long have they been doing this? Because like Google, Google cities was a thing. They tried it with Toronto. Yeah. So Google cities was more a bit more like Canary War for their, let's privatize a bit of an existing city. Yeah.

This is let's create a whole new city as a private company, essentially. That's cool. And the Charter Cities Institute is like Milton Friedman's grandson is in charge of it and Peter Thiel channels lots of money through it. Yeah, it's like it is it is fucking crazy when you start digging into it. Like there are a bunch of Habsburgs involved as well. Oh, great. Yeah, of course. A little map, a little infographic of Habsburg territory control gets a dot on the east end of Cuba.

This city only has one shriveled black testicle and its head's completely full of water. It's so weird that a city had any, really. Yeah, that is to be frustrating. But the thing is, if you have just one idea and their idea is charter cities, then you sort of try to update it to apply it to whatever is the monster of the week that's like politically popular, right? With Prospera, their thing was like, well, we're inventing Prospera post-COVID so that people can do remote work from Prospera. And then we're going to like have a manufacturing hub across on the mainland in Honduras.

And now it's detention and punishment. Yeah. This is the thing they were like, well, OK. We have to have another charter city idea, but we have to make it for sort of the Trump agenda. So I guess we have to have one that's going to be especially cruel to immigrants. So they say that Guantanamo Bay can serve as an immigration pilot housing prospective migrants who can be rigorously vetted prior

to receiving legal status. Looks like US purgatory. Yes. Yes. Jesus Christ. Awesome. Yes. Jesus Christ. Awesome. Yeah. And yeah, will they be cleaning up all of the barrels that they buried?

Presumably they will not. The site's location close to the Cuban mainland, they say, offers a symbolic advantage. This thriving free market enclave next to a stagnating regime, that stark contrast not only undermines Cuba's leadership, but showcases the dynamism of American capitalism. Oh my God. But what they're intending to show is like, if it gets built, which it won't again, obviously, if it gets built, what they would be intending to show is a bunch of people trying to move to the United States, trying to be model citizens while

living on uninhabitable land that you couldn't like, yeah, they say is more contaminated than Chernobyl for longer. That's your shining city on the hill for the people of Cuba. Sort of a metaphor, I suppose. Yeah. That's built on top of the torture camp. They keep going back to that, by the way. Well, the torture part, you know, thrills them.

That's a bonus. So it's like the high density residential is what we're going to build here. They say, we're going to accommodate a mix of families ranging from US workers seeking new opportunities, prospective immigrants being vetted, as well as single professionals in high tech and manufacturing, commercial and research development, including offices and light industrial labs, hospitality and tourism such as resorts or conference centers taking advantage of the Caribbean climate, especially if negative associations with Guantanamo Bay fade in the public memory. US workers seeking new employment. That's like camp guards basically, right?

Yeah. Guard, guys in the guard tower. Or they're like, oh, no, well, clearly, when we create the regulation free zone, a bunch of all of the best companies are all going to move to the hyper contaminated torture camp. The TFUS eventually happens and legally the first day has to be in Guantanamo Bay so they can vet the podcast. I mean, there's also like there's no various, there is like no irony in sort of saying that this

is exactly like what like, like fucking freaks in, like in Israel like want from Gaza, right? Yeah. Like they want to turn that into like torture, like they want to turn that into like a fucking free economic zone, Charter City on the top of rubble. Yeah. If I'm honest, I'm actually surprised that the Charter Cities Institute hasn't been more proactive in having that discussion and being very public about having that discussion with them.

Because all the people who are in who are working with like what Palmer Lucky, the CEO of Anderil, you know, the Hawaiian shirt fascist. Yeah. Right. That guy, he's very, he's promoting this particular idea because he probably wants to have some of his manufacturing locations in Guantanamo Bay because he probably thinks that would be cool and based in Epic. That's like an Epic. Yeah, it's an Epic thing to do.

I'm actually shocked that the Charter Cities Institute hasn't been more vocal, especially now that like guys like Smotra, they're like, oh yeah, no, we want to ethnically cleanse the whole thing. Yeah, I feel like they will any minute now because even Netanyahu is just like, yeah, they're not coming back. Yeah, no, there's, this's, that was never the plan. That was, that was always going to happen. By the way, speaking of UK trade deals, guess what we're still pursuing?

What's that? Trade deal with Israel. Yeah. Cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Famously very, very like easy countries to negotiate with. Oh yeah, very reasonable. 100%.

Over there. They could import their, their like pizza technology back to you guys. You guys like corn on pizza? Israel has recently been controversial, but we need fizzy water. We need falafels. Our fizzy water is too still. Yeah, so the side, I think we'll sort of go into this in more detail in the next couple of weeks.

But yeah, as Israel has announced its intentions to pursue a policy of full extermination in Gaza. Which were always its intentions. We said they were always its intentions. But publicly announced it. It was obvious. I'm not claiming that as a kind of like any genius on our part. Anyone could see that that was the plan. Yeah. All you had to do was actually watch an Israeli press conference rather than watch a British one about an Israeli press conference. Exactly.

And then our talking heads are going like, they're definitely not doing that. And then you can watch any quote from Israeli politicians, it's like, yeah, that's what we're doing. Or just hit, smash that translate button on Axe.com. The everything app. At Grok, is this true? Yeah. So yeah, we are fully pursuing a free trade deal with them. At the same time as we've like tried to limit exports of as few, it's funny, I was reading about this the other day.

I'll get back to Charter City in a second. I was reading about this the other day where we're like, the government is all, not only is it pursuing this trade deal, it's also attempting to find exemptions and loopholes for our arms export restrictions because we canceled a bunch of arms export licenses, but we're saying, no, no, we can't stop exporting F-35 parts to Israel because that could damage the global F-35 supply chain, the world's most important plane, the world's best and most important plane.

Well, now that there's so many F-18s at the bottom of the ocean, it's like, Yes, Thomas should write his own version of the deal. The art of capitulating. So, anyway, sorry, back to this. How do they propose this is going to work as an immigration solution? So Guantanamo Bay, they say, could become an immigration proving ground, enabling the US to safely and humanely accommodate certain migrants from high skilled talent to asylum seekers all while closely evaluating their contributions to the Guantanamo Bay economy. It's inviting.

We give a bunch of like white South Africans asylum and immediately send them to Guantanamo Bay Ellis Island. I'm coming around on this policy immediately. Yeah. So they say, migrants will be placed in a controlled environment, given job training, and then observed. Like mice. Yeah. Like mice? Yeah, like mice.

Okay, we're gonna put you in The Truman Show in Guantanamo Bay. I hate the fucking maze they always make us do. If it built on in the middle again, I can smell it, but I can't see the way through. So migrants will be placed in a controlled environment given job training and observed. High performers become prime candidates for you as residents, while those who disrupt public order can be repatriated quickly with no due process required." Oh boy. Is this sort of a 50,000 men enter, 20,000 men leave type thing? Yeah, what if we made it sort of a formal like zone of exception battle royale? Yeah. You know? Yeah.

It says also, the probationary period allows for thorough background checks, ongoing performance evaluation, and assimilation training. Yeah. Yeah. It says also the probationary period allows for thorough background checks, ongoing performance evaluation, and assimilation training. Jesus. We've constructed America Town, a perfect representation of what America is like and what we want like would-be American immigrants to know about America. It is in Guantanamo Bay. This is beyond parody. I feel insane and I don't know how to talk about it. Yeah. Somehow the Potemkin America is more real than the real America. Yes, genuinely.

Well, they could call it the zone of interest in the sense of like the zone where we're interested in you. Yeah, that's right. You wouldn't want a zone of disinterest. That would be bad. And that's the other thing, right? They're like, they want people to live... Sorry, the upzoning of interest. There we go.

That's a pretty good idea. They want people to come and live here, from America as well. And also from third countries, like who have no interest in going to America, who just want access to a cheap and motivated labor force. Number one, that's something that's a big part of it. And we're back at the zone of interest again. This is just Israel too. Yeah. There's like cheap, motivated labor force. Cause also it's like, big part of it. And we're back at the zone of interest again. This is just Israel too. Yeah. There's like cheap motivated labor force,

because also it's like if you quit your job or you try to organize a union, oh, that doesn't look, I've observed you and that doesn't seem very American. So back around to Columbia, you go, I'm afraid, right? So it's basically like an indenture essentially. You're going to go get indentured at Guantanamo Bay, but you also have to seem very happy about it.

Indentured, this is purgatory. Yes. Yeah, you're being observed. Oh boy, I'm being sent to Guantanamo Bay to be looked at professionally. I'm having to get an indulgence from the woke pope to shorten my time at Guantanamo Bay, brackets immigration. They say, we will establish structured and well-managed facilities in Guantanamo Bay to ensure humane living conditions and access to health care. I'd say I've heard that before, but I literally have heard that before.

Oh, they're going to ensure access to health care. That's better than mainland America. If you got to say that the living conditions are humane, like, you know that they're not humane. Oh, yeah, of course. I also remember, and this will sort of come up in the final segment as well. I always remember whenever we talk about immigrants who are put in positions of being hyper-exploitable, I tend to think of our discussions with Bureau of Investigative Journalism's Emiliano Molino, right? Where he reports on the conditions faced by often farm or care workers in the UK,

which are like hyper exploited sectors because the visas are especially precarious. Your relationship with your employer is also quite total because especially in the case of farm work, they tend to provide your accommodation and so on. And so they're like, yeah, we're going to give you an unheated moldy dangerous trailer. You have to share with like, you know, you're a single woman, you have to share it with three men you don't know. Right? We're going to do that. If you complain, we're going to immediately revoke your visa and then you get deported. Right? Now practice being American in that. Yeah, exactly.

You will go to, like, it's sort of like the flow building in that it promises humane conditions and forces you to go to a bimonthly Republican makeup class. This does feel quite like British Lettings agent, you know, like showing you the world's worst mold infested department and going like, yeah, it's pretty nice, just dual aspect humane. Sorry, what was that last bit? You could use the word concentration, I prefer to think of it as a starter camp. Yeah. They also say this will help with the renewal of American greatness.

Oh, okay. Converting a controversial prison site. It was controversial. Generated a lot of conversation. Into a beacon of 21st century prosperity and innovation. Underscores American resilience. Guantanamo Bay's success will revitalize the US brand abroad. Oh, okay.

It did do that, just another way. And will serve as a powerful reminder of how quickly the nation can pivot from war on terror to economic ambition. Again, and also it's like when you read between the lines here, again, it's like, no, we will get you a hyper-exploitable, immediately deportable, un-unionizable labor force that anyone can just come here and hyper-exploit as part of... Far more lucky, ideally. Yeah, as part of our paranoia about all foreigners. And it's like, no, all that happened is the war on terror expanded to cover everybody.

Yeah. What the hell did this one bit of Cuba ever do to anyone to be the locus of this much evil? Oh yeah. That's where Portal to Hell. Yeah. Got Portal to Hell in here. Okay.

Yeah. Oh, it's a big job, mate. You want to fill that in? Oh, it's easier, I'd say. Just put a bit of laminate over the top. No one's going to notice. So, witnessing a formerly isolated base morph into a flourishing city brimming with factories, labs, and safe living quarters.

Why do they say safe? It's like humane. It's so perturbing. Safe living quarters. Would you like to live not above a portal to hell? Because oh boy, do we have a living complex that is definitely not above a portal to hell. Is the epitome of America can do it? The statement to the world is unambiguous.

The US is not dwelling on the past, but will transform its dubious legacy into forward-looking success. Only looking forward. The Guantanamo Bay Company is not dwelling on the past! As well they shouldn't. Yeah. Truth and reconciliation. How about broadening the mission and making it profitable for Palmer Lucky?

I find the labs thing upsetting. Like, what are they? What are they? Why labs? It's AI labs. Okay. All right. Or biotech labs.

That's upsetting. Guantanamo Bay is safe for investment. I'm very, very excited to immigrate to America, but first I have to work for two years at something called the Umbrella Corporation. That's kind of sad. The metamorphosis from prison camp to prosperous city underscores the U.S. capacity for renewal,

signifying that even morally fraught outposts, they had to do like a synonym thesaurus for controversial. Morally fraught. Yeah, outposts can become magnets for capital, job growth and talent. Freed from rigid state, federal and municipal constraints. You know those constraints. A lot of people were subject to that

after they closed Guantanamo Bay. A charter city can test models for digital governments from Guantanamo blockchain-based property registries to AI-driven traffic management. If successful, these innovations could roll out across the country. Yeah. I mean, this is the book we read on Left on Red a while ago, the Palestine Laboratory, just coming slightly geographically closer. So yeah, this is the thing is like, not only is there

a sort of an inside the wire and an outside the wire, but there's also a kind of, like, there's a little test bed prison as well. So, they basically are like, look, zoning boards, regulations, city councils, environmental frameworks, don't worry about it. Guantanamo Bay is federal territory with little legal complexity. It's governed by the Department of Defense, and ultimate authority rests with the US government. Come to Guantanamo Bay to learn how to replicate lessons from it. They're gonna develop a new version of Ozempic in that lab that just turns everybody into the thing. So, Guantanamo Bay bypasses a large portion of regulatory friction.

Regulatory friction is just like ensuring that you don't get crushed while building the house. That's what regulatory friction is. It's ensuring that you have to get paid. Well, like, damn, is it just me or has the thing lost some weight? Yeah, looking good. Yeah, spelled pentacles. It also is like, yeah, a lack of laws means that the president himself could authorize pilot programs for labor regulation, like, quote, simplified union rules.

Oh, yes. Yeah. Here we go. Or flexible hiring processes or experimental wage structures. simplified union rules. Oh, yes. Yeah. Here we go. Go. Or flexible hiring processes or experimental wage structures. Yeah, late for work, you get thrown into the sea. It's however many hours you were late for work that year,

you have that many minutes dunked in a crane under the sea. It tied to a chair. Pretty cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they're like, look, detractors might ask, what would we do to prevent Guantanamo Bay from becoming a corporate fiefdom or lawless zone? The solution is to make baseline constitutional

perspective, or protections, excuse me, and create a mechanism for federal inspection. Baseline constitutional baseline? Yeah, it would be the Constitution, and that would be the law, the US constitution, because it's federal territory. And then the president would deputize like the secret service to come and check it out and make sure everything's fine. That's the plan.

Right. Yeah. The president could oversee periodic audits asserting that wage standards, anti-discrimination rules and core civil rights were remaining enforced. So, you know, perfect. And then finally, they're like, by the way, all of this, this like hyper real torture zone, this is going to be America's advertisement to the Cuban people. You could be, you could be like this. And that's going to topple, that's going to topple the Cuban government. Yeah.

Just look at the barbed wire through the barbed wire and think, wonder what's going on in there? Sounds pretty bad. Yeah. I am interested. Good thing there's no movies to compare that to, you know. I'm so interested in what's happening in this zone. The zone of innovation, I think we could call it. Anyway, anyway, look.

So before we go, I will go a little bit long, but hopefully not too long, is I want to talk a bit about the changes that have been announced to the UK immigration system today in a new white paper. Oh, are we building a concentration camp on the Isle of Wight? I mean, I don't love that you were touching the lathe when you said that. Can I briefly talk about my experience with UK immigration? Please. I landed at Heathrow Airport.

I had a ETA paper, which, you know, electronically is connected to my passport but we got it printed out and there was a choice to either go through the very long queue the electronic side or to go through proper UK immigration. Somebody saw me holding the paper and flagged it and was like go through talk to a human being you've got a work visa. I went through went up to the counter and the lady said what's this and I was like it's my work visa. I went through, went up to the counter and the lady said, what's this? And I was like, it's my work visa. And then she got kind of flustered and was like, well, do you need a stamp?

And I was like, I don't know, because I don't work at UK immigration. I didn't say that second half, but it was implied. She called her friend Andy over. Mm-hmm, like her buddy? Yep, a coworker. Doesn't work immigration, just good guy. She was like, Andy, Andy, and they talked for a while and then she sighed and said, do you think maybe you guys

want to go through the electronic side? And I was like, well, no, there's like a huge line and we were told to go here and she was like, okay, well, what date should I put on the stamp? And I was like, I don't know. The day's date. And I was just like, am I going to get in huge trouble for this? But you do need a stamp for a Wavies or I'm pretty sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that was my experience with the what is it called? Border protection services? Well, don't worry.

They're changing all of it to make it worse. OK. Yeah. Yes. We call them the border force. Border force. We like to make stuff sound tough. Yes. Even though it makes it sound way more wimpy, actually. Border force.

So border force. Basically, this immigration white paper was released on the day of recording. It seems to confirm, you know, the suspicion that, no, the suspicion for firm, obviously that Labour is pressing ahead with its strategy to systematically destroy a couple of parts of the British state that rely on people coming here from abroad in a way that's specifically set up to be exploitative and shitty, but it's not why they're attacking it. They want to make it better. We're going to kill your nan whether you like it or not. That's that sort of.

We've set up a system where the only way that your nan can be kept alive is by hyper exploited workers often from Eastern Europe or the global south coming in on precarious care visas and then like keeping your nan alive on the basis of a wage arbitrage. We've we said that's the that is the only way that the state is willing to keep the NANS alive is if it can put the responsibility on local councils, crush local council funding, and then basically every party agrees that immigration is too high, but also taxes are too high. And so we shouldn't fund anything. And this last bare opportunity of a hyper exploitation and wage arbitrage, we're taking that away,

but not because we think that the hyper exploitation and wage arbitrage is bad, but because we don't like the people are coming in from elsewhere. They're not become addicted to having a nan. Yeah, this, again, the idea that much like the American government is talks about like the American economy of like cheap goods and stuff

as an addiction that has to be shocked away. So too does the Labour Party talk about the UK's structural dependency on high levels of migration as an addiction that needs to be shocked away instead of something that comes about. Too many people are addicted to having Nan's. Yeah, that's it. That needs to end.

I love free-basing having a grandmother. Just getting real messed up on having a grandmother. Doing some nan with Hunter Biden. Yeah. Not a grandmother for me. I haven't any. Keir Starmer can threaten me with nothing. I'm on the methadone of having a grandmother where they assign you a great aunt. The migration white paper has some quite shocking rhetoric quite, like, you know, shocking rhetoric in it where it says that the UK risks becoming a quote, island of strangers. Yeah, this was the thing that struck me, right?

Besides being obviously Hitlerite, right? Something that evokes, you know, Enoch Powell. It's the only memorable thing I've heard Stalmers say. Ever. Right? And obviously we know that there's a ton of different shitty, fascistic things that, like, Starmer and Starmer's people do enthusiastically, but there's a really different kind of relish to this one that they're trying to demonstrate.

I mean, you hear the cruelty is the point all the time now, because it's an obvious observation, but like, in this one it's really kind of leaning hard on the is this cruel enough for you to not vote for reform. And there's a real bleakness to this because the reason why people feel atomized and like, distant from other people is not immigration, it's all of the other stuff that they will not fix, and which is only maintaining itself at the level that it is, because it's being held together with string and immigration. M- Yeah, exactly. It's like, taking apart the string is just gonna make the thing fall apart.

L- Yes, yeah. And I mean, if you look at the sort of like, the thing that drives me insane about this, because it's, you know, failing to learn any lessons from history, is the people who are most afraid of, and most hostile towards immigrants, are is the people who are most afraid of and most hostile towards immigrants are inevitably the people who have the least contact with them, because obviously there is no material basis for racism in reality. If you interact with people, then you are constantly having to fight the evidence of your own eyes and ears in order to stay racist. Whereas if you never do that, then you never have to learn that, like, the people that you want to be racist about are just people, and you can just stay in this kind of self-delusional, very very enervating and very, um, like, personally rewarding feeling, uh, like state of total

paranoia. And it makes me feel insane when you look at some neglected town, whether that's like Claxton or whether that's any of the red wall seats, that have very real, terrible problems and are also 95% white British, and then it ticks down to 94% and the handful of people there who still bother to vote for anyone vote for reform on the basis that they're going to shaft everyone harder. Well it just goes to show that you know a lot of racists aren't really serious about upping their game because if they were they would move to a very multicultural

area which would be like doing altitude training for your racism and then when they went back to claxons there'd be even more races. The only exception to this whole thing is the Dutch. They're always an exception. There's a class in there, even more races. The only exception to this whole thing is the Dutch. Like... They're always an exception. There's a few sort of a few different ways to approach this as well, right? You can think about this in terms of like what's being held together with the string because we've also seen that, right?

Because the assumption is when you look at a sector like care, higher education is another one that's being hit by the immigration baton, that when you pull away the string, right, in primary education, what happened is that teachers themselves had to start teaching classes of 50 kids. They had to start buying school supplies. They start buying their own textbooks. They were, they got paid less and less and less because teaching is a vocation. You will still keep doing it because that's what you want to do. Right. And so they relied on basically a further and harsher exploitation of the people who are working in that sector. And I think, if I'm guessing,

they're hoping that they can do that with the remaining carers, right? That it's like, okay, well, the care sector already stretched to a brutal crisis as of 2014, right? It's over a decade of being in brutal crisis, bit like the Canadian property market. Yes. Where it's like, we're going to say, okay, well, there's going to be no one new coming in.

So instead what we're going to assume is that because this is a vocation that the people who are doing it will just continue working harder and more and give more of themselves and spend more money in doing it for less. Because it's worth noting how care works as an industry. You can either work in a care home or you could be an in-home care or you work for an agency. You're an in-home care or you work for an agency, you get paid close to minimum wage, right? You don't make very much money and you get paid

for the time you're in the house of the person you're caring for and you're paying for your own travel between those houses, right? So you are making no money at all. And because for a number of reasons, right. Number one council, because council budgets have been, have been slashed so low. The only person that that really makes that that job really makes sense for is someone who's engaged in wage arbitrage, right? Someone who's like, okay, well, if I go there, I can make more money than I can, than I could here.

Even though the money I'm making there is sort of not enough to live there very well, I can then return and so on and so on. This is that's who that makes sense for. And that's the choice of several successive choices, not of like, the way it's talked about in the immigration white papers, like, oh, the Tories, they imported hundreds of thousands of people or whatever. Nevermind also that they spiked immigration numbers under the conservative party was because

of Hong Kong and Ukraine refugee programs, which this party is very in support of, right? Nevermind all of that. It's like, oh, well, the Tories imported all the labor. It's like, it's not because they relaxed immigration standards that like a bunch of British people didn't work below minimum wage jobs. It's because they made those jobs below minimum wage. Yeah. Right? It's because they degraded the sector so much that they'd only made sense for someone to do it out of a place of wage arbitrage. It makes me insane that it's like, again, it's like this cannot be acknowledged because the Daily Mail cannot stop writing about

immigration and blue labor is about doing what the Daily Mail says. Also, the other problem is that like you have to reckon, if you're going to do this honestly, but you have to reckon with the reality that so much of this country relies on labor exploitation, right? And I feel like it's a lot more than people realize in terms of like, I feel like there's sort of such ignorance over how most people live in this country, but the fact being, no one really gets paid a lot of money. That sort of declined massively. Big part of that is to sort of do with rents and to do with like housing instability. But it's also just due to the fact that you've got like a very old country, a very unstable

country. And the people who are sort of making, you know, like, you know, I was thinking about this the other day, just like, no one really uses the term essential workers, but like, remember when that was like a thing and like one of the sort of, you day, it's like no one really uses the term essential workers. But remember when that was a thing and one of the sort of, at least, therefore a very short period of time, a recognition that, oh, when society sort of closes down, there are still these people that have to go out and risk their lives and risk their health in order to keep society functioning. And they basically don't get paid anything and there's no efforts to really address that. And like the biggest crisis that like is looming, if not it's like already, I think it's like already here, arguably. But like if you want to sort of like kick the can down the road

for a little bit, like the crisis that's about to emerge is a massive care crisis, right? Because like, you know, you're looking at like, you know, five to 10 years until you kind of go from like having, you know, your parents or your sort of like that generation of parents who are, you know, they can still kind of like do most things, but 10 years is a very, and I say this like, cause I, I sort of cared for my grandparents a little bit when I was in my teens, um, in a very sort of like involved way. And like the amount of time it takes for a person to deteriorate physically is not, it's not that long, right? It's a very instant. And so like you really need to like a care system is one that does actually have to sort of reckon with the idea that like, no, like especially at a time of

like heightened public health issues. And the fact that most people, most countries have like gutted like whatever was left of their public health program is that like all this deterioration can happen really quickly. And if you don't have like the buffer in place, which includes like an ability to sort of get a lot of carers into a place in a very short period of time who know what they're doing. So you don't need to train them or you at least you don't need to sort of like invest a lot of money in training. If you wanted to seriously like improve care, care quality in the UK, and you wanted to use like whatever was left of a domestic way forced to do that. You would have to invest so much money into filling a gap.

It would suck it with everything. To make it work for five years, you would have to spend so much money, it would be unbelievable. And the thing that we know about living here is that no one wants to fix anything. So is that going to happen? No. Like all the sort of fucking reform and insurgents saying anything about like funding care and sort of training up young people to become carers. No, they aren't.

There's no intention of doing that. So then what are we left with? Like the reality of the situation. And we've sort of seen this lots of like, this has sort of been something that's been happening for a long time. And I feel like it's one of those things where suddenly like they'll come, they'll come this point like where suddenly like media people start to notice it. But the reality is like, you know, they have no intention of like training up a care force of any kind. So what will be left?

Well, what will be left is governments telling people that, well, you know, maybe you need to look after your own aunt. I sort of made all that. Oh, yeah. I mean, I mean, we have our own. We have our own version of that coming. But that's going to be it. It'll be either like, well, have you considered killing yourself if you don't have anyone to support you? Or if you have someone who, even if they're working multiple jobs or who's in uni or whatever, have they considered giving up their life so that they can look after you? And also,

we're not going to like... Because I feel like there is a small amount that is currently given to people who care full time for family members. But from what I understand, it's basically nothing. So again, it's very much like, yeah, if your Nan gets older, if your Nan gets sick or whatever, that's on you. And you're going to have to solve that problem. And good luck, I suppose. And maybe if you get sick of it, or maybe if you don't have time to it, she could go kill herself, perhaps. I'll tell you, the question that you're asking, which is what's the plan to replace the carers,

is specifically they say in the immigration white paper, we'll figure that out later. Oh, good. Well, because again, this is what I go back to with the teachers thing, which is the conservative government when they were slashing education budgets. And a lot of this is down to local authority budgets being slashed because that's who's

statutorily responsible for care, education, and so on. And you slash all those budgets, then they're like, okay, well, something will fill the gap. And with teachers, it was just teachers stretching themselves more. That ultimately is what filled the gap. Even then that's failing right now. They tried to do this in Canada, in rural communities with telehealth. Like I remember reading white papers about like how there was a, you know, it was the classic step one, telehealth.

Yeah. Step two, question mark, step three, healthy population. Yeah. It's basically like the burning platform thing. It's like, okay, we've created a situation every one where we basically created a Logan's run, but where you sort of just die at sort of, you know, 77, kind of no matter what. I'm dealing with this personally right now. Like my, uh, you know,

the community I grew up in was really small. All the doctors went away. Uh, there was telehealth with nurse practitioners replacing doctors and a couple of like a month ago, my dad had a massive stroke was misdiagnosed and then discharged from a hospital because they didn't have enough room. They were like, you're fine. Please get out. Yeah. He lives 45 minutes away from like any kind of like useful medical care.

So like, yeah, it's, it's real and it's frustrating. And I think like Hussein said, the real issue is like, we'll figure it out later. It's the fucking question mark part. Yeah. The plan is we'll figure it out later. It's the fucking question mark part. Yeah, the plan is we'll figure it out. I'm sure something will, look, obviously no one's just going to accept that all the nans die. So we're going to stop the visas for care workers and then eh, look, it's not like the nans are all going to die.

The invisible hand of the market will look after your nan. Yeah, the invisible hand. But I think another important thing to bear in mind, I'll be very quick with this, is just the nature of care itself is something that involves, or it requires an investment of time, and it requires an investment of practice, and it requires actual training to do that.

And so you can rely on the idea of, oh yeah, there are people who sort of go into this field because like, you know, they, like a dwindling number of people who actually like have empathy left and like who actually care about people. But then you're going to be like, okay, well now you're going to go to like more places. You have to care for more people.

And so instead of seeing like, you know, cause already like most councils and most like boroughs are like really stretched in terms of like how many carers they have. I have like a family relative of mine who I think works in like an adjacent field and I think she sees maybe like five people a day, which is quite a lot bearing in mind like how much attention each person needs like and you know, because considering that like for most councils, like the funding, which includes funding for carers, like kind

of goes again, it's like means tested, right? So they're probably going to say, but, oh, OK, you now need to go see 10 people. And yeah, you're going to have to pay for your own petrol. You have to pay for your own travel. Everything. Do more with less. Do more with less and do more with less in a sort of crumbling environment as well. Right. And so it's like, OK, well, yeah, you've got to go see 10 people. That requires you to be in your car for longer. But it requires you to sort of like drive on these janky roads for longer,

like, you know, being stuck in traffic for a longer period. It all connects, and the most frustrating thing is that you don't see this all until it happens, but by which point it's too late. But again, it goes back to, well, the issue must be that there are too many people, right? And that's what we're heading towards, I don't know. And as well as that, it's also, there's the ingratitude, right? Because there are plenty of people, as we know, because they're currently doing it, holding all of this shit together, who are willing to work in, like, horrible, degrading,

incredibly necessary jobs for next to no money, in horrible conditions, but they need to have some minimum floor of dignity and the quest of like, every British political party in my lifetime has been to try and dig through that floor and find out what's underneath. And so every possible personal characteristic or experience that you have in one of those jobs is steadily being leveraged against you to make you personally feel more miserable in the course of doing this. If you want to be a doctor and you're transgender, fuck you. You know, if you want to be a care worker and you're an immigrant, then fuck you too. It's always going to be some thing that

they can turn on you just to try and make the experience unrewarding and sort of like desperate in a different way as an extra little bonus. And to be clear, we're talking about one facet of the migration white paper, the one that I think is very important, but the whole migration white paper actually, in the foreword, Stammer himself writes, the damage high migration has done to our country is incalculable. Public services and housing access have been placed under too much pressure. Our economy has been distorted by preservers' incentives to import workers rather than invest in our own skills." Again, as though that-

Just write the fucking 14 words and get it over with. Like, at that point. Because what you're doing is you're taking this position that you wanted so badly of having this kind of, like, route into the national consciousness, and shoveling a bunch of neo-Nazi shit into it because you want to stay in the job longer because it makes you feel important. Even though you know that you are leaving no kind of legacy behind you except diverse kinds of failure.

NARESH And crucially, again, like, immigration, I can't believe I keep having to say this, immigration is popular. If you ask, is the health and social care... ALICE Well, for now, people like nurses now, but the way it becomes unpopular with everyone is people who don't pay attention hear the Prime Minister and then all of the press accept uncritically the framing that is otherwise delivered by whatever freaks and weirdos get into strange magazines to talk about the UK aesthetic or whatever. Well, it's like, and that's what I mean, right?

These things are actually popular. It's that they become political hot button issues in lockstep with the Daily Mail, Times, Telegraph, etc. etc, creating fear about them. And how many times does this have to keep working? I feel like the Washington generals. It's number one, right? This is a fake problem that's created by the press. Number two, the people who this...

When you ever you ask about a specific type of immigrant, students, workers, care workers, very, very, very popular, right? It's that the immigration that they can control, they're just going to try to push it lower, lower, lower, lower, lower. And that's also because nobody has made the case for immigration because Nigel Farage is the only person who's allowed to be a leader in British politics since about 2012 or so. I mean, the joke that I came up with was, I don't know, 12 or so. Well, I mean, the joke that I came up with was... I don't know if you remember this, but it used to be the case that every time Sinn Fein, the political party, were mentioned, they had to be referred to... This wasn't like formal, but like, always happened.

Had to be referred to as the political wing of the IRA. Sinn Fein, the political wing of the IRA. And since this, I've been thinking of the Labour Party as the political wing of reform. Because until reform are able to get elected, what this functionally is, is the Labour Party creating an acceptably elected landing strip for them. Yeah. Nigel Farage's voice is too sexy, so the BBC are making Keir Starmer read out his policies. And Nigel Farage's voice is too sexy to the BBC and making Keir Starmer read out his policies. And I think honestly, the UK's relationship with its high inward migration numbers is exactly the same as the United States's relationship with its persistent trade deficit. People all over the world are clamoring to solve the problems inherent to our system

in a way that's broadly favorable to us, in a way that's like, again, broadly favorable to us in terms of the terrible choices that the elites in charge of the system have made, right? Yeah, you are flying the plane and you're flying the real plane controls, but you're basing them off of what one of the coffee machines in the galley is displaying. It's a number that doesn't mean anything. In fact, it's actively misleading. It was chosen to become this focus of this kind of national like push for this because it's misleading. And it's incredibly misleading and it also but it's like just like Trump declares, Trump declares chooses

Yeah, the trade deficit as being like this is how poor we are. It's like no, this is the rest of the world clamoring to produce products in exchange for your IOUs. This is for us, this is the global, this is like parts of the global periphery clamoring to come solve the, or at least temporarily bridge the gaps that are created by decades of austerity and under investment. This is what that is. People are, people are for one reason or another clamoring to come and fix the problem. And yet that number becomes totemic. And that last ditch, quite cruel and exploitative, broadly functional, the last functional, worst, most inhumane solution, even that is too kind. That is too welcoming to other people. And again, they're going very long, so I don't want to go too much to other people. And again, they're so, I wanna go, they're going very long.

So I don't wanna go too much more into it. But beyond this, right? This is like reducing this, but also say, okay, well we're gonna rank migrants by like who gets to claim permanent residency sooner. We're gonna refresh the life in the UK test. We're going to have harsher English requirements. What's going on with the Isle of Man right now?

Because I hear there's like something going on in Guantanamo that may be. Yeah, that's right. The Isle of Nan's there. The Isle of Nan, baby. Look, we can't afford care anymore. So we we're going to put all the nans in the Isle of Nan where they can run in the green fields. I want to leave it there.

But, you know, this is just again, as you say, November, another in a legacy of what will be diverse cruelties and failures by this Labour government that every day finds a new way to plumb a new depth of moral depravity to largely act as an advertisement for Nigel Farage. Yeah. These Nazi motherfuckers, I hate them, I cannot, I will go on hating them until my last breath. Yep.

That's right. And you should too. It's free and it's easy to do. But hey, you know what's not free? The Patreon. TF Patreon. Five bucks a month, second episode every week. You know what else isn't free?

But very reasonably priced. Which is my show at the Victoria on May 18th. Right. This will be out by then. So if you want to see Dan and me and others, then please do buy a ticket to his show at the Victoria. Dan will include, send to me a link to where people can buy tickets. That's right. Yeah. And Milo, you have cities to name.

Yeah. So Trash Future Live show that's on the 21st of June. That's selling really well. There's also Glue Factory and Alliance by Donkeys the same weekend. There is also Trash Future Live at the Fringe, which is on the 31st of July. The pre-sale to $10 patrons has already sold out, I believe. And real regular tickets will be on sale as of now. Also, I'm going to be in Ireland. I'm going to be in Kilkenny, Dublin, Cork and Belfast.

Hey, so am I. June. Oh, that's Cork and Belfast. Hey, so am I. Oh, that's exciting. We can hang out. Yeah, that's amazing. All right, I hope our shows don't compete with each other but I don't think they. Probably not, no. Also 14th of June, Bristol,

19th of June, Refugee Action in London. Those are both big shows, please watch to get to those. There'll be some other whips and stuff, thank you. We are still doing more research into our Canadian tour. We found out that we might not need visas at all. Yeah, it's unclear. Yeah, so if you know, write in. Yeah.

Do we need visas? You guys should play Nanaimo, the armpit of Vancouver Island. Everyone has a fucking opinion about where we should fucking play in Canada. My opinion is you should play Nanaimo. You think we should play Nanaimo? People have said, oh, you should play Red Deer. You should play- Don't play Red Deer, that's the fucking- Yeah, well, people are fucking saying we should play everywhere in Canada. People have said, oh, you should play Red Deer. You should play Red Deer.

People are fucking saying we should play everywhere in Canada. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're saying, oh, you should. Yeah. Well, when's the NADASHQAN show? When are you going to be in fucking Dartmouth? Bye, everybody. Bye, bye, bye. Thanks for watching!