TRASHFUTURE - Under the Influencers ft. Taylor Lorenz and Elena Cresci

Episode Date: January 8, 2018

Hey Trash Fam - it's a new week and therefore a new episode. The gang (Riley @raaleh, Milo @milo_edwards, Hussein @HKesvani, and Elena Cresci @elenacresci) talks about about our progress through no pee january, the Spectator's list of reasons to be cheerful (they're dumb), the plan to replace the border force with "Dad's Waffen SS," and Toby Young's Defense of Toby Young by Toby Young. Taylor Lorenz (@TaylorLorenz), who covers technology and culture at the Daily Beast, joins us in the latter half ot the ep to give us an anthropological explanation of the YouTube teens - who they are, what they hell are they thinking, and what's next for them. (Spoiler alert - it's all weird and hyperreal). Here's the link for our live show on the 9th of January: https://www.facebook.com/events/1127552040709161/ xoxo Riley

That's it. Wait a minute. That's not the trash feature intro music. That's Riley doing an impression of the trash feature intro music in a structural device. I recommended he do not do for this segment. Thank you, Alex. Keeley, one of our regular hosts. No, we are here before the meat of the episode telling you, the listener, that trash future is doing a live show that we forgot to promote. It's depending on when you listen to this tomorrow, Tuesday, the 9th of January, today, in the past, or yesterday, in which case you fucked it. Who else is going to be at this live show? So, in addition to the fine, usual cast crew and guests of the trash feature podcast,

we have a wonderful mix of stand-ups, including Ivo Graham, who's been on Live at the Apollo and Mock the Week, and his show is, quote, polished, poised stand-up and a pleasure to spend an hour in his company. Ahir Shah, regular podcast, Edinburgh Comedy Award nominee, satirist, extraordinaire. We've got Samina Zara, a master storyteller. We've got Johnny Palam, who is a BBC New Comedy Award finalist, and this guy, Alex Keeley, doing the MCing, and then possibly also appearing on the podcast itself. The Facebook link to buy tickets is in the bio. It's at the Star of Kings and Kings Cross, and we would love to see you there.

8pm, doors at 7.30pm, Tuesday, the 9th of January, 2018, in, let's say, the year of our Lord. Jesus Christ to slash someone else. And just to give you a taste of what's coming, I will be revealing a product with the following description. Blank management made achievable and sustainable through a display-free and app-connected blank with results to back it up. What could that be? You'll find out if you come to the Star of Kings, Kings Cross, doors at 7.30pm, show at 8.00pm, five pounds, and all profits to Syrian refugee relief.

Fantastic. Anyway, thank you, and here is the episode we recorded with Elena and Taylor. Bass. Oh, can someone please tell me more about NoP January? I'm fascinated. Actually, there is an interesting meme that's been going around on some right-wing blogs about NoP January. Are they doing that thing where they're trying to get people to do a thing by pretending it's

a trend when it actually isn't? Well, no, this is free-blading. This is the newest right-wing copypasta. A Marine was taking college classes during NoP January before his imminent deployment to Iran. One of his courses had a professor that was an atheist and a member of the ACLU, which stands for the American Council for Less Urination, which aims to ban free peeing on campus. One day, the professor shocked everyone by walking into class,

looking up and stating, God, if you are real, I want you to come down and make me wet my pants on this platform. Several minutes tick by in silence, and when the 15 minutes that the professor gave God was almost expired, the Marine gets up from his seat, approaches the professor, and pisses down the front of his pants, and then the Marine simply went back to his seat. The professor, visibly shaken, asked the Marine, what the heck did you do that for? The Marine said, God was busy protecting America's military, who are out turning

mashat into dust, protecting your right to say stupid shit like that. So he sent me to fill in. And that Marine was type of young. Is he single? Because I'm looking for a boyfriend. I love the peeing Marine. He really does put that metaphor in Marine. Take a ride in Elena's fake Welsh accent taxi.

I learned so much when I come here. It's great. So I'm sorry to disappoint our YouTuber listeners, but this isn't the race science podcast. This is actually the race science business mindset podcast, baby. Yeah. This is actually trash future, the podcast, but how the future, if we do not implement fully automated, luxury, gay space communism is and will be trash. And also the crypto currency investment podcast.

Oh, I have something on that after this. First, I'm going to say I am Riley. You can find me on Twitter at Rala and you can follow the podcast on Twitter at trash future pod and whom I joined by from my left. You're joined by Milo Edwards. Once again, Troy, I'm from the not in the dang bowl. You can follow me on Twitter and Instagram at Milo underscore Edwards. St. Kizbunny.

I am four days into no P January. It hurts, but it'll be worth it in the end. It's hurt. It hurts, but it's righteous. Valor. Valor, baby. It's for the environment. Hi friends.

I'm Elana Cressy. That's at E L E N A C R E S C I spell it right. Make sure you follow the right one. I don't think there's another one. And I'm the token female. Follow her on Twitter. As I explained last time, I expect to accrue followers from this. That is my payment for coming on this podcast.

Yeah, guys. Actually, it's really important for our leftism cred that you do follow the woman, because if you don't, then we'll be described as sexists. And, you know, it's really important to us that quote unquote women. Don't find out that we're sexist. Yeah. So he's women we hear so much about online. We've never met them.

Apart from Elana. I've heard there's one in Canada. She's my girlfriend. You haven't met her. You don't know her. There's one in Canada. And she's posted the most bay selfie with I've forgotten the name of the president of Canada again, Justin.

Justin Trudeau. Also not a president. Genuine brain front. Prime minister, whatever. Prime minister. Nothing matters anymore. Search a feminist. There's one thing.

You do so many like gestures and faces, which don't come out on this audio. I only work. I only work in video really and truly to really get the full Elana experience. You're the closest thing to a YouTuber on this table. It's true. I just so badly want to be a YouTuber so badly. Okay.

One thing I want to do before we jump into the the wonderful politics content. And then our conversation with Taylor Lawrence is I'd like to do a shout out to Sally young at just a fish on Twitter who has given us a crypto kitty. Yeah, we have a crypto kitty. Yeah. I will one. Can I have one? All right.

That's trash future community. If you want, Elana will find on you, but she only take crypto kitty. Only crypto kitties. Thank you. I will do your GCSE coursework if you send me a crypto kissy. I need to feed my children. It's proof that irony podcasting gets you mad online pussy. I need I need to feed my children, but they only eat on the blockchain.

We put the we put the mad online into mad online pussy. Guys, shall we shall we jump into the to the content because there has been some excruable shit happening. British journalism shockingly. Oh, I mean, British journalism, which is a bastion of good. Oh, I just spoke over a woman. I'm sorry. See, you are British journalism.

That's what you're doing. That's literally it. As you can see from his beanie. Hussain Hussain, you have to say 10 Hail Marys not because it's religious, but because she's a woman. Hail Mary. So British journalism is trash. Yeah, exactly.

That basically I'm not in a future kind of way. No, not in the telegraph, of course, but hey, we all read. You know what? It's not my favorite bugger. It's not. It's actually a graphic novel. I once dated a guy at the telegraph. I would love to know what he thinks about working for a manga.

It's like you read through it and you're like, is someone printed out my grandfather's brain? What is going on here? Well, speaking of James Dellingpole, all of our racist grandfather actually. Yeah, he is. No, he is basically what if someone made like the liquid metal terminator from Terminator 2, but every time you shot that terminator, the liquid metal scattered into the phrase, it's okay to be white.

Wait, did you just pitch us a Black Mirror episode? Black Mirror. Oh my God. Is that in the new series? I haven't got through it yet. We're compiling like a list of Black Mirror episodes that when Charlie Brooker does come on, we can just spend the entire episode just like pitching stuff at him until he goes to bed. He has to come on this podcast.

If we compile enough Black Mirror ideas, we'll actually have evidence that we came up with them before he did and then we'll be able to sue Charlie Brooker. Hell yeah. I feel sorry for Charlie Brooker because I feel like Black Mirror, when he wrote the first series, wasn't banal. But then the world went so bad so fast that it became like, this is just like what's happening now. This is like not, it's not visionary.

Funny enough, something happened this week, which literally could be a Black Mirror episode. And that's about to, I guess. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Dude, you just completely forget. Famous online person, Riley Quinn. Yes. So we definitely haven't recorded the two sections of this podcast.

Our order in a way that's making this conversation really confusing. Absolutely not. So guys, James Dellingpole has, I assume, like Spittleflex shouted this into a recording device. He's given us nine reasons to be cheerful for the start of the year. Do we want to know maybe what a few of these are? I'm super pumped for this. I'm waiting to tell me more. James Dellingpole Christmas album, to be one of them.

James Deport the Poles. Okay. Number one. Number one reason to be hopeful. There is hope for the youth. Yes, I know we think they're all grisly little Marxist snowflakes. We're going to vote in Jeremy Corbyn. Yes, we are.

We're actually bears. But this is largely a product of brainwashing and poor governance. I actually never washed my brain for strength. It's no brainwash January. No, that's February. I only wash my brain with raw water. We're going to get into that on our Friday episode, actually. Yeah, James says, but he has hope that two of the teenagers he interviewed for his podcast,

I won't say their names, bright, hardworking, big hearted and able to absorb and process vast quantities of information at gobsmacking speed. Paul Joseph Watson, one of them. They actually have engorged hearts. That is so true. That's what Paul Joseph Watson probably looks like to James Dellingpole, is like a precocious eight-year-old. He looks like someone whose gob has been smacked.

That's why it's so weirdly red. Can't say it, but I'm trying to do the lips right now. Again, I'm a video person. He looks like he went to a backstreet plastic surgeon and went, make me look as much like Lionel Richie as possible. So I'm jumping on this. He's got lip fillers. I think he's got lip fillers.

Say no more, fam. Allegedly. Number two, the pun is mightier than the sword. If you really want to kill Nazis as the painfully earnest and increasingly aggressive left is always claiming it wants to do, the deadliest method is wit, humor and snark, not violence. I thought it was very interesting how the Red Army was able to deploy its joke cannons. The painfully earnest leftists in the French resistance

should really learn that the best way of killing the Waffen SS is with snark. An unsuspecting patrol of SS soldiers walking through, I don't know, the door doing was set upon by a series of Frenchmen who just said, ha, those uniforms make your legs look like carrots. Well, they fled back to the farm. I'm saying is that I'm a big fan of the Kamerouge podcast. What I think is really cool is how actually there was a plan to kill Hitler, where they were going to get Chandler Bing to just go and say,

could you be any more of a dictator and then the war would have been over. I just never respected Chandler Bing after he changed his name as product placement for that Microsoft search engine. It's like, come on guys, no one even uses it. Are we only doing friends jokes because it's on Netflix now and British Netflix? I have two more of these items I want to read and then we're going to get some news. Controversial opinion, I hate friends. No, I hate friends too.

I only watched your original friends. But here. How I met your mother. Here is no. How I met your mother is canon, that's fine. Here is number eight on James Delling Paul's list. Friends. I'll be there for you.

This is going to take a turn when the rain stops to fall. The face is going to be the black mirror. Okay, friends. He writes, Scott Adams, creator of the Dilbert comic strip and explainer of the Trump phenomenon, recently said recently said his politics had cost her about 75 percent of his friendships. Sounds about right. I thought to myself normally even so I look around at the miniscule, microscopic circle of friends I have left.

And I think to myself, you're great. You're all I need. Wait, are all his friends invisible to the naked eye? How many friends does one have time to see anyway? Hey, well, look, you know, at least no one told you life where it's going to be this way. At least, at least Toby Young will show up at his stag too. It's like a friends intro for James Delling Paul. And it's just like him.

And then it's like it cuts to the camera. And it's like someone it's like David Davis struggling to put up a pullout bed. It's like David Davis. So I think I think the whole friends canon is actually a giant black mirror in which it actually just fixated on like some guy in a coma. And he's imagined like all of this. This does give my sort of my favorite sort of conservative phenomenon is every time they talk about their social lives, they're all because Kirk van Houten pointing to his race car bed.

He's like, I sleep in a race car. I have like two friends left because my politics are awesome. I genuinely just think they're trolling a little bit now. Like surely they were the whole time. I mean, just right. The whole whole trolling is supposed to be funny. And it's not like it's completely believable that James Delling Paul only has two mates. And they're like one of them is Toby Young.

And one of them is like millennial woes from YouTube. Toby Young, who's like all right, Heston Blumenthal. And here's where Delling Paul's list gets genuinely schizophrenic. Because number nine is just this. I'm going to read the whole thing and we're going to have to try and get through it. Number nine, David Attenborough is wrong. By which I mean the Malthusian version he and his ilk promote in deceptively cozy programs like Blue Planet 2 is no way to look at the world.

This idea that we humans are the problem is the construct of the guilt-ridden liberal elite. Forget politics. Forget the big outside world as much as you can. What truly matters are the basics. Family and friends. Wait, is he accusing David Attenborough of being like a sea communist? He's basically saying that we shouldn't care about environmental destruction because we all have our family and friends and booze and hobbies.

James Delling Paul thinks that Pacific Rim is a documentary. Or if you're James Delling Paul, you at least have booze and hobbies. But he doesn't have any friends. So all he has left to do is destroy the planet out of spite. Oh no, he has one friend. He has Michael Gove. Did you ever see the video like the really weird video where Michael Gove just showed up in his garden?

I did not. That's absolutely bizarre. Is that a re-cut of it? I mean, it might as well be. Oh no, I have seen that. Yeah, it's so weird. It's crazy, isn't it? I may have to cut this out of the podcast.

But I'm going to have to have my friend about it. But a friend of mine said that he once went to a party with Toby Young because Toby Young promised that Michael Gove would be there in a gimp suit. I'm sorry. Wow. And then when they got there in the taxi, Toby Young tried to make my friend who was like, you know, the fucking 20 at the time pay for it. Michael Gove is swallow.

But the question is, was Michael Gove there? Yeah, he wasn't there at all. So now my friend has hated the Tory party ever since and is now a fervent Corbinite, even though he's like... That's the only reason. Because he didn't get to say Michael Gove. That's a take a lot. People are petty.

Politics is tribal. James Delling Pole is my sensei. So much for the tolerant laugh. So much for the gimp suit in that. James Delling Pole's only friends are people he meets through his James Glory hole. To which he inserts his James Delling Pole. Oh my God, fuck it. We're done.

Like the whole podcast is over. It was all building to that joke. Imagine just like everything in his house has that pun name. But I've actually, I've got away. I know there's the government is actually mooting away for James Delling Pole to finally make some friends, which is this article. They're going to give him a small rat, a James Delling Pole. He'll carry everywhere with him.

And he'll be his only friend. A really right wing aqueous rodent. Fucking hell. No, is that finally James Delling Pole is going to be able to meet people who she shares a common interest with because it was published in The Guardian that ministers are considering using volunteers to guard the UK borders. Hell yeah. Hell yeah.

I'm going to volunteer. You're going to volunteer. Well, what's sort of what's drawing you to this? Well, tell me more. The same wants to let all the ISIS guys in. Wave it. Come on, lads. All I'm saying is like my cousin's been away for a long time.

You're hoping he'll come back in the team 10 house. In the low gang. He's a team 10. As we've established on the podcast before, like Jake Paul's usual channel is actually ISIS propaganda. It's accelerationism. I really like the idea of hanging off, hanging around like the white cliffs of Dover,

wearing like Stone Island jackets, eating raw gammon ham. Of course. And just shouting. Of course. At the sea. I love that we're going to get seals apparently volunteering as our border force. But that's probably like, you know, this is just, this is just what I think is like the battle cry of the angry reds nude online.

No, the terrifying wretch of the Brexit. Like the battle cry of the kind of person who would be a volunteer border guard is just, I'm not racist, but. Ah, yes. My, my favorite thing about the volunteer. Are there any like, are there any like, you know, what's called perks for like signing up? This is what I'm confused about because like,

honestly, border guards don't have that much fun. Like, I don't know. You get to shove your hand in people's anuses. And you get paid to do it. Unless you're a volunteer. Well, yeah, that's just. But no, really now. Seriously, it's a tough job.

Like why volunteers? I'm so confused. Well, it's because, well, number one, they're, they're saying that they're considering doing this to plug, because the Tory party is committed to this sort of schizophrenic program of sort of cutting the national security and policing apparatus and also ramping up sort of a frenzied hysteria about immigrants and criminals. Now, the thing is.

I mean, practically, practically. What are they offering? Well, that's the thing there. They are, I think, and that's the thing. They're not offering anything. They're doing this to plug a service gap that they've created. And in a, by the way, an institution that shouldn't exist anyway. Well, they're doing this.

And they're, I think in real, in reality, the perk is the job. The perk is I get to, you know, tell immigrants to leave. I've always, I mean, I mean, right now I sell Avon, but I've always deeply deep down. I've wanted to be a racial profile. I can see why Hussain is so drawn to this, frankly. It's just it's very. Look, I have a hobby of measuring people's skulls.

I have a very boring job. It's filling out spreadsheets. And really, all I dreamed of was even becoming a cop, but I was too small. So now I'm going to exert my wrath that I usually just save for gaming in a different way. That's just it. Is these are these are all the guys who were too fat or stupid to become cops. Hell yeah. Like and who have lived a sort of life of suburban bigotry who will be sort of.

It's for James Dillingpole. Yeah. I mean, there's actually a really, really, really obvious like comparison here. This is dad's army, right? Yes. It's dad's army. I'm not the first to make this. What's also it's Sheriff Joe Arpaio.

It's dad's army, except the people in dad's army are the Nazis. This is the real horseshoe theory. I mean, like it's just dad's Luftwaffe. It's just like fantasy fulfillment, isn't it? It's just like these guys who read the mail in the sun and we're like, Oh, these like border guards, you know, they waste all our money, waste all our taxes. If I was, if I was doing, I just tell, I just like kick them out. I would just kick them out.

You know, it's just an entertaining fantasy. And my real question is like, look, if the government is going to entertain these guys' fantasies, then why on earth won't they let me do my shipping importation of body pillows? Exactly. It's ridiculous. Why do they always seize Brain Force Plus at the border? No, no, guys. Maybe that's what it is.

Maybe they're just good. It's not border guards. They just want to seize all your body pillows. I think they're seizing all the Brain Force Plus for themselves. Because the only way they could have come up with this idea is by doing four massive lines of Brain Force Plus. Do we know what's in Brain Force? Soy.

Soy. Are you kidding me? No, no, no, it contains Soy. Liberal tears. Soy, it contains Soy. Oh, wow. Basically, it's like standards. I think someone did a test on it.

And they were just like, this is standard shit you get from Holland and Barrett with like some, you know, gaming branding on it. And it contains more Soy. I would love to go to like a neo-fascist Holland and Barrett. But that's just it. That's what this, to go back to the border guards thing, the closest parallel with this is either, you know, Dad's Waffen SS, I guess, more than the Luftwaffe. They'd be the Waffen SS.

And, but the other comparison, I think, is Sheriff Joe Arpaio in the States. Snacks in his hat. Because, you know, I think it's David Clark. Sheriff Joe Arpaio supervising Stephen Seagal while he drives a tank through a man's. And who also wrote the preface to Stephen Seagal's book, Novel, The Way of the Shadow Wolves. No, Sheriff Joe Arpaio, he's just a guy from New Jersey who had this sort of paranoid fantasy about sort of Mexicans spilling into the country and destroying it. And so he moved to Arizona to get himself elected Sheriff,

so he could basically terrorize people. I was born in a place where people didn't accept racists for who they were. And I moved to a place called Arizona where a man can be whoever he wants to be, unless he's black or Mexican. So, yeah, I, for one, am excited to have a man who subsists on and looks like Gammon, try to jam his two foot circumference wrist in my anus. Well, you know, I wish you'd stop Gammon shaming, like really now. It's just not fair.

You know, you know, Britain first did this. They went to like Kalei and they were like, they went up to these Afghan migrants who were in the camp. And they were like, we know that you've had a pretty tough time. And part of that is like Britain's fault. We know, but like, can you just not come to Britain? And it was like, it was really, you know, big, you know, Paul Gold, his name is Paul Golding, right?

So he comes with like a Stone Island jacket and stuff. And he's like swaggering around. He's really tough and like this Afghan teenager who has no idea who this guy is. And just kind of look like his, the whole video, he just looks at him. Just like really perplexed until, and you can see Paul getting redder and madder and madder. And it was just basically just like, this is like the internet, isn't it? It's like these guys who get mad online. So they've decided to take a little break and get mad offline.

Going unplugged. Like that Rod Stewart album. And this is why I'm so attracted to it. Is Paul Golding the fourth Paul brother? Like J. Joseph Watson Golding. It's like Pokemon the second movie where Ash, who was in a coma, by the way, has to get all the mystical balls in order to know what you don't understand is there are all four horcruxes of Pope John Paul the second.

Coming back to bless us with his life. So my favorite thing about the volunteer Border Force is they will inevitably spawn a TV program called Celebrity Border Force, which is going to be hosted by Ollie Merz. The only man his name rhymes with polymers. It's going to be like episode one like Peter Andre cavity searches this Albanian man who looks suspiciously swarthy. While Janet Street Porter finds out how old this Syrian child really is. The worst thing about this is that it's so plausible.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry. Oh my God, I'm a phone. Your mum written by Charlie Brook. Guys, do we have time for a reading? Or do you have to go, Zane? No, you can do a reading. Okay. I would like to close out this segment. I don't read for strength.

I'd like to close out this segment before we get to our interview with Taylor back in time by reading probably the most self-referential article ever written on the spectator. This we're doubling up on the spectator this week. I'm going to have to subscribe to them eventually. Is this an excerpt from your book? If I just threw in the bin. Stop throwing my books in the bin. They're not good, but they don't deserve the bin.

Okay. Is that a picture of a mosque on the front of the room? It is. My old job was to like write Chrome translation. Was to was to write sort of introductions to different academic topics. And when it got published by Taylor and Francis, I was given a bunch of copies. Why the Muslims have to be stopped by R Quinn published by spectator publishing.

Hey, congratulations. Okay. So the this article is entitled in defense of Toby Young by Toby Young. It had to happen. The author byline is Toby Young. I mean, didn't Mark Jacobs by Mark Jacobs in collaboration with Mark Jacobs? Didn't Tony Blair do this with Mark Jacobs? Yeah.

Tony like in defense of Tony Blair by Tony Blair. Need for the Guardian, I think. Ah, Tony, please. I just made a big play to Dinga Magoo. This is Simpsons reference. For those of you who don't know, maybe some of you aren't smart. Is it is the opening of this article? I'm not smart enough.

Look, I know. I disrespected the bing. Okay. Now, as we all know, Toby Young, a lifelong failure. Who is not young? Yeah, Toby. Tomorrow, Toby old, in fact. Toby middle aged.

Yeah. Hey, Toby log off, maybe. Played by Simon Pegg in a film, a sort of about his life. Do you know about this? Simon Pegg played Toby Young in a film. Oh, what? In fact. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's called. And now Simon Pegg in character as Toby Young has been appointed onto the department for educations. What is it? Something for students.

Anime regularly. Office for students. It is the anime regulation board. Yeah. That's why I heard. Toby Young was faced with the choice many of us. Well, which is man can only serve God or gammon. He shows gammon.

So Toby Young. Toby Young has essential has been appointed on to a quango. Apparently there's one left of the office for students, which exists to promote free speech on campus and ensure students get value for money. Both things that I really think of when I think of higher education. Yeah. Also, Toby Young definitely thinks that quango is a word for women's breasts.

It is now. He says after his appointment, the twitch fork mob started trawling my website and gleefully tweeting links to politically correct things I'd written in the past. In one case, a 1990 1998 article for a New York lads mag entitled I was a lesbian for the night, which recounted my unsuccessful attempts to pick up a

lipstick lesbian by dressing as a woman and embarking on a whistle stop tour of Manhattan's LGBT scene. Wow. What's a lipstick lesbian? Like a feminine lesbian. Ah, right. A feminine lesbian woman. Yeah. So Toby Young is a actually an intellectual genius who

I thought was someone who goes who goes lesbian for lipstick. Not normally lesbian, but if there's lipstick on clearly engages in performant in performance art at challenging gender norms, obviously, when he's not busy looking like Humpty Dumpty. Did you guys see his tweets such that he's he's deleted like 50,000? He no platformed himself. He no platform.

He didn't. So I don't know if he was made to. That's a possibility that he was made to or because he is the kind of person who sort of he as you can probably read in defense of Toby Young by Toby Young, he is the kind of person that very much sticks to what he said before. So it's kind of kind of weird that he's gone back and deleted so many tweets. In defense of talking about women's baps by Toby Young.

Toby Young is actually kind of a you might say he's the ultimate feminist because he loves women so much. Dude, he is so obsessed with breasts. I need to be claiming which is that I was actually offered Toby Young's job on the condition that I would delete the tweet that was. I would delete all tweets with come references and I refuse to because I support freedom of speech. I will die by it and I will die in a pool of calm if I have to.

So proud of you, Hussain. Hi, mom. Does your mum listen to this? I think she says this is you picked a really so sorry. You picked a really interesting hill to die on. A very interesting and sticky hill to die on. It's not a hill, it's like a river.

So, Elena, I think you've prepared some. I have some of the tweets in front of me. They're all the boob ones. Okay, you ready? So what happened to Winkleman's breasts? Put on some weight, girly. Hashtag comic relief. He's body positive.

He does things size zero, Claudia Winkleman is, you know, it's not saying an unrealizable role model for the women of today. He just he wants her to be her full self. Okay, so have another one. Danny Boyle's wife's got huge knockers. Hashtag Oscars. But actually it transpired that actually it was Danny Boyle's daughter who was a minor at the time according to someone on.

No, it's Toby Young is no is a brilliant comic wit according to the foreign secretary, which makes him qualified for this role. And, you know, he knows that he has to push the borders in order to really maintain fresh comedy and be a social critic. It's just in this case, the border is the age of consent. Don't worry. Toby Young doesn't say inappropriate things about women, says Boris Johnson. By my famously high standards.

Okay, one more. And I'm not entirely sure what this is in response to, but I think it's actually better that I don't put it into context. So it just says actually mate, I had my dick up her ass. And he was tweeting at the same time, which is vintage 2009 Toby Young. And he's been he's been forced to. Well, sorry, I should clarify. I don't know if he's been deleted.

His tweets have been deleted, but not his account. No, possibly by aliens. We'll never know. But that's his excuse for this largely was that he he called this sort of soft and the sort of misguided opinions of a younger man of only 40. I find that incredible as an excuse. It's like it's like he's seen all these these 20 somethings get dragged for tweets they send when they were like in their teens.

And he's just like, yes, but I was younger then. I didn't know anything. And it's like, he was a meh efeb. No, I've been appealing to Roy Moore going back to the article briefly. He says the actual objections to him being on the board of the OFS are feeble. Furious academics such as Danny Blanchard, the left wing economist, etc. etc. have demanded to know what experience I have of working in higher education, which I think if you're going to regulate higher education is pretty reasonable.

And he says actually it's a benefit because he doesn't know anything about higher education. And therefore won't be bound by it's by the biases of people working in the sector who are burdened with things like knowledge. He said something along the lines of like the people who are the least qualified to tackle racism are victims of racism themselves. Yes, he did say that. So at least he's consistent. Yeah, like these qualified people should be given the most important job.

I want to see Toby Young's like ideas iPhone note where he's like gynecologists are biased by their training. They should be unbiased people like me. Look at the BAPs. Do you think gynecologists do? They look at your BAPs and say those are well nice love. That's how it works. Your knockers need reduction.

I think my gynecologist might not be union registered. Toby Young went to the nuts school of medicine. He's nuts. So he says the reason for all this confected outrage, of course, is that I'm a conservative and an open supporter of Brexit. Same. Because I've said and done some pretty sophomoric things in the past, you know, like the dick up the arse thing.

Fun tweets. And the government's opponents. The government's opponents think that they can use me to embarrass Theresa May. I mean, true. That's the one true thing he says in this article. The government's opponents who are at this stage basically everyone. Including many people in the government. Yeah.

I would love to talk to someone like someone vaguely high up in the conservative party, like off the record about what they really think about this. I'd be fascinated to hear because I bet you any money, there's like a lot of divide there because there always is. This is politics in 2018. I reckon even Theresa May knows that this is just completely fucked. And like they're actually appointing Toby Young because he's the only person in the country who still genuinely believes that what they're doing is good and fine.

So just like we want to put him under close observation to work out if it's possible. I think there may be. There's some truth in that because I think someone posted that like, you know, if you look at Toby Young stuff, he's consistently been supportive of consecutive conservative leaders. And like he's a friend of Michael Gove. He doesn't he doesn't shy away from that. He supported him when he was trying to like do his run for conservative party leader.

So I think there is some truth. There is some truth in that. But I think there's also there's something bigger in this, which is really like the state of conservatism, maybe not just in the UK, maybe in the US too, which is that it largely just exists in order to get people mad. Like conservatives will do stuff just to try and make liberals like go nuts. And largely succeed. And honestly, they do.

Well, they're very, very good at it. Yeah. Removing your health care to trigger the lids. And and and that's just but and that's just it right like I can only imagine someone would appoint Toby Young to something like if they wanted it to fail producers style, like like the OFS is basically this government's version of springtime for Hitler. Some people, sorry. Some people call it a joke.

I called it a black mirror episode. So I want to get because one quick thing on one of this Toby Young thing, one of his main sort of sort of statements that he's qualified for the role other than just that he was a failed free school governor who's actually been asked to dissociate from the movement because of his sheer incompetence and how much he ran his free school into the ground. The other big thing he thinks is that is that he's just because I'm a conservative. All of the left doesn't want me in this position of power.

How unfair and it's like, well, no, you're right. We don't like that's what that's politics. Tory's not a race. You fucking dullard. Imagine if out of fairness, we just wanted Toby Young in power. If you're going to have Corbyn, you should have Toby Young as well. I want that so much. I want a government that is run jointly between Corbyn and Toby Young,

and they have to get along. We make a sitcom out of it. Isn't that literally what the coalition government was? No, because the coalition government was really just two Tories. Poor Nick Clegg. But the Democrats in the States... Sir Nick Clegg. Listen to my real politic episode.

I have an aneurysm about that. The absolute night. No, what this is what the Democrats in the States are actually trying to do, where they're saying, ah, maybe we'll win if we just run John McCain. He's very popular after inventing the oven chips. The Democrats really like oven chips. They're going to run. And the smiley faces as well.

Yum, yum, yum. Because that's a lot of I think there are a lot of liberals who are actually taken in by this fallacy that if we have a balance of left and conservative views, we're actually going to get somewhere good. Whereas really, all Toby Young wants to do is ensure that Paul Golding has unfettered access to everyone's dorm room so that he can come in and just like read his Twitter timeline to you while he's asleep. To be fair, I would do that if I was allowed to.

The same does or when you come to my house and do that. I stand outside with a megaphone and I just read all my tweets and call her a coward. This is an anime. Everything's a manga. It's like an episode of Dexter's lab where it goes to sleep listening to that French language tape and then it gets stuck and he wakes up and all you can say is I'm led you from ours. Don't you mean that episode of Black Mirror? And then Elena wakes up in the morning and all she can say is come.

That's true. It's happened on many occasions. It makes it makes work incredibly awkward. And I know I've slipped into my posh gilford accent. Oh no, my cover is blown. My cover is blown. My cover. My cover.

My cover. So that's where I'm calling condoms now. Oh my God. A umbrella. Listen to our trenchant political podcast. Follow me on Twitter. It's so different now. You're not in the bowl.

It's so like we don't have to like pause awkwardly trying to hear the joke you're making. But that is what having sex with me is like. Just to say we have like DMs and very serious guests to come on. Oh God, you're right. Yeah. And like we were having this conversation. Follow me on Twitter guys. We were having this conversation of like what episodes should we send them and what

ones should we make sure they don't listen to. We should just get them to listen to an episode of the New Statesman podcast. That's your podcast. You should do that. James Delling podcast. That's really smart. That's so smart. No, honestly do that.

Like I like I respect that. I want to say one more sort of thing I think has popped into my head about the Toby Young thing. Which is because he's he's complaining that he's being unfairly targeted for being a conservative. It's but he's so perfectly incompetent that I think the only way to understand this is by imagining him as the burglars from home alone. But he's called the police because Kevin keeps hitting them with a paint can. That's how I imagine he breaks into the house and he gets hit in the face with a paint can. He goes so much for the tolerant left.

All right. Shall we transition to our interview with Taylor transition? Do you know how addicted I was, which it's now defunct, but Spencer Matthews used to have a blog on the Daily Mail and his blog was called Mail Online. No. Yes. It's Spencer Matthews Mail Online, like M M A L E online dot Daily Mail dot code dot UK. And it's one of the archives are so it's amazing.

I'm for one excited that the Daily Mail will finally be publishing a masculine voice. I mean, Mail Online is the name of my newsletter in which I talk about my very good pickup theories. Mail Online is also the name of my newsletter where I just talk about medieval armor. And like other crusading related topics like trebuchets, you know, normal shit. So I wanted to move on to the big, the big topic we were hoping to cover. Which is a little pump, which is the way in which YouTube has once again enabled some just completely insane and excruable shocking. I know, I know.

I mean, yeah, I'm hesitant to say YouTube. I mean, whatever. I mean, yeah, YouTube enabled it. But like, yeah, we all enable it. They're not the ones that were, you know, out in suicide forest. It wasn't Susan Wojcicki or whatever it was. Ah, the brothers Paul, Jake, Logan, and Joseph Watson. Sorry, we've killed Elena.

He's alive. So, um, imagine my shot when I discovered a lifeless body. So Taylor, just want to basically tell us, tell us in our listeners what happened. Just do a quick recap of this crazy. So Logan Paul, iconic vlogger, half of, you know, one 50% of the Paul brothers, Richard, Jake, and Logan, his, Logan's his younger brother. They're both vloggers. The whole family's vloggers.

And crazy uncle Joseph Watson. And anyway, so Logan's been on this sort of trip through Japan. He's been vlogging every day. He posts a vlog of his life every day. He's done that for over, you know, almost, I don't know, almost two years over a year. Um, and so he goes off. There's this popular, not popular, but it's like a tourist attraction in Japan. This place called Suicide Forest.

And it's this really beautiful scenic forest by Mount Fuji. And it's also, uh, has a sort of darker underbelly. It's a place where a lot of people go to kill themselves. So, um, so Logan and his vlog squad go there to hunt for ghosts naturally. They walk about 100 meters into the woods. That's what they were there to do. Wow. And is he working with Derek Acour?

So they, so they walk about 100 meters into the woods and they encounter a man who has recently hung himself. Like recently in the body was like hours old. Uh, and obviously, first of all, I'm so mad that I did not write this up right away because I have alerts set for, um, for Logan's videos. And, uh, and I saw this go up and I was like, Oh, it's a fucking prank. Like there's no way that that's real. Like it's a prank.

I'm not even going to watch it. Yeah. I thought the same thing. I thought the exact same thing. I was like, this is, this is fake. This has got to be fake. I'm not granted. I saw it at like 5am my time.

I didn't even, I mean, I'm watching it. I was like, Oh, it's real because you can see him just like totally like, just he's like completely unable to like comprehend what's happening and just keeps making stupid jokes. And it's just like so bad. But, but yeah, but the time, I mean, I initially I was like, okay, you find it a body. There's no way that's real, whatever.

Bye. And then, uh, then I kind of blew up online and yeah. So basically, I mean, here's the thing. These guys come across the body. They don't know what to do. They naturally start filming their reactions. Um, they, you know, they call for help. Um, but they also like take, take the vlog camera up to the body and are like

zooming in on the man's body and they obscured his face, which okay, fine. But they're like, this is somebody's loved one and they are just like, just completely like it dehumanizing this, this man who had, had just died. And so, uh, then at the end of it, you know, um, they do this kind of like Logan does this like kind of like phony PSA and blah, blah, blah posts it. Obviously there's huge backlash. He has to, uh, release several apologies. And then, uh, now he said he's taking, taking a break from vlogging for who knows,

probably just a few days. But I thought it was every day, bro. But that's, that is Jake. You guys are confusing these two. That was mainly addressed to Logan Paul. Yeah. It's like, yeah. What I find really sort of the thing that I sort of can't shake about this

is that, you know, it's, it's not like posting a vlog is something that you just sort of, you know, do overlook. It's not, you don't just film it and then post it. Like you have to go home, upload it, edit it. He like Logan had like ample opportunity for second thoughts. Here's the thing with Logan and he is just so ignorant. And so, and with all of these YouTubers, I mean, they're completely surrounded by enablers. Like they're surrounded by people that are either making money off them or, or getting,

you know, getting fame off of them. Like they don't usually have anyone to kind of like look at the content before it goes live or like say like, hey, this is a PR disaster. Like they don't have a lot of oversight. A lot of them don't even have press people. So I mean, Logan has a press person, but the press person is like, to set up interviews or do promotion around some brand deal he's in.

It's not to like do like day to day management and they need- The press person is like a golden retriever on Adderall. Yeah, these kids need like adult supervision. Logan's 22 and he should know better, but yeah. Am I right? Logan started out on Vine, right? Yes. He was one of those ones.

Yeah, yeah. We finally corner Logan Paul in the old mill, remove the mask, and it was Dapper Laffs all along. Oh, good. Oh, wait, do you know who Dapper Laffs is? I don't. It's Hugh. Who is that?

You're missing out. I feel like we shouldn't- No, I had to learn who Dapper Laffs was as a Canadian who just lives here. Everyone's favorite turtle neck satirist. Yeah, he is a, he only, in fact, he, um, and that this sort of links back into the Logan Paul thing pretty well. Because what Dapper Laffs did is he was a comedian who put on this character who was like, you know, extremely, you know, like misogynist and racist and stuff,

but he was kind of laddish, kind of a bro. And so, you know- It's like a British lads humor. Just like, oh, lads, we'll go for pints and we'll have a cheeky nando. But he used to, so I think, I recall he got into, he got into hot water because he dealt with a heckler on stage by basically suggesting that he would have sex with her against her will or something. He also had like-

I remember this. Yeah, he was the one who- Oh, I remember this, actually. Got a girl's bra off and then it's like, take your bra off love with like a knife in his hand, which he's since deleted. And so, but then what he did was he went on TV the next day wearing a turtleneck and I think unnecessary glasses to look extra contrite. And he said that much of what he was doing

was parodying and raising awareness about toxic masculinity. And this was on, this was on Newsnight, which is like the flagship news program in the UK, like on the BBC. It's like, so it's, it's up there with like the biggest news programs in the UK. Okay, but like Logan wouldn't even like have the, like, like that's honestly, like that's like, that's like more like PR spin than like, than like Logan would ever encounter. I feel like like that's like, like saying that you were actually just doing that to

like raise awareness of toxic, like that's so insane. But also like- He doubled back on it, I don't know. Maybe like six months later, like he did like this weird video where turtleneck dapper laughs was in heaven and then like he got, it was encountered by real dapper laughs. I mean, I love this. How do I know about this person?

I need to go to the big brother house now. And sometimes I hate this country. And he will be the most woke person in there. And there's a drag queen called Courtney Act who was on RuPaul's Drag Race and she's also going in and I'm quite excited about that bit. So go back to Logan Paul for a second. I just wanted to touch on the point that you said about like these YouTubers, I don't know whether like you'd call them naive or like just having enablers around them.

And some something that happened to you online was like, when you had made a comment about YouTubers expecting to get paid for media interviews. Oh yeah, that whole thing. Oh my God. Yeah. Let me get into that. Sure. So, so yeah.

So one thing that like I've encountered recently is like, reach out to YouTubers and they'll be like, they just don't. So, and I'm not talking about the Logan Pauls of the world who have press handlers. It's like people with like 50,000, 100,000 subscribers and I'll like reach out to them about something and they just, and they want to get paid. And then the conception is, which I found out apparently most people on Twitter think that anyone quoted in a news article is paid because they're helping create content, which is insane.

And also like news companies are going bankrupt left and right. So I just think it's hilarious that they think that like any fucking random quote, like like some person that's like, yeah, it's knowing a lot today gets like $150 or whatever. But, but yeah. So like I feel like it's funny because one thing that I didn't tweet. And I think people like, first of all, these like super right wing wackos retweeted it, which is what made it go viral and honestly wasn't as much of it up for debate. But like most of the time when I, when that happens, like I have to explain to the YouTuber,

like, so actually like, no, like we don't just pay anyone quoted, you know, but this is valuable for whatever, whatever, and it's valuable for a lot of reasons, right? Like shaping their public image, like, you know, explaining something, clarifying something, whatever, whatever, or just they want to profile. And all I've never lost an interview because we didn't pay them. Like I've never had somebody once I explain like, hey, so we don't pay like you like, oh, I don't want to do the interview. They're still all really hungry for press.

Like YouTubers are like the thirstiest people ever. Like they, they, you know, whatever. So, so, but it's just like this like education. And I think that that is because so many of them are not, they don't come up through the traditional Hollywood system where they like get a manager, they get an agent right away. It's like they're just like in their room vlogging and then someone calls them and is like, hey, so like, can you do an interview? And they're like, that's content.

Content is money. I need money. And this is like, so I saw the Jake Paul, Logan Paul, like my 2017 was awesome because I made tons of money videos. He bought a six and a half million dollar house and then made a school bus into a party bus. Same. No, into a cool bus. Which is a pun.

So it's good. Something your dad would do to convince you to go to school. They're making insane amounts of money and they're not making money from giving interviews. I mean, the irony is which I felt like at last because it was like all these like mainstream media haters that we have in the States being like, yeah, this system is changing. They don't need you. But it's like, no, they do.

Like you've seen case in point what Logan did yesterday. Like if you lose control of the media narrative, you're fucked as a YouTuber. I had a look on Twitter on the way here and I saw like quite a sizable number of like 10, 11, 12 year olds who were still kind of, you know, supporting Logan still kind of in your mentions as a low gag. It may or may not have included me. So yeah, I mean, they don't care, by the way. Like it's like, you know, I don't know what you guys were into when you're younger,

but I was like ride or die and sink fan. And like, I mean, JC Chasay could like murder someone in the street and I wouldn't care. Like, you know, like it's this whole thing where the it's, it's your it's like a crazy young pre-pupressant fandom that they don't, they don't really care. They're always going to give the star who they admire and who they consider honestly, like a friend, like the benefit of it out. So when Logan's like, oh, I'm so sorry. Like, well, I didn't know, you know, like I really, I really misinterpreted this.

Like they're like, oh, no, totally Logan, like no worries, you know, like, but that's like a, I see that as a fandom thing rather than necessarily an internet celebrity. Well, Logan didn't actually think the guy was dead. I thought it was Jake Paul playing Prank. I can't laugh at this. I'm so sorry. Which does all think Jake Paul would think would be a funny prank. As long as you leap out and say pranked, it's a prank.

Well, do you remember the, oh God, his name. Sam Pepper. Oh, Sam Pepper. Yeah. So yeah, when Sam Pepper did that whole like, I pretended to kill someone's friend thing and that blew up. Just want to say one thing though, especially about Jake Paul and Logan too. Like they actually go through a lot of like, they jump through a lot of hoops to remain

family friendly. So even though like, I mean, obviously this was huge. Missed up that video was not family friendly. And like, you know, Jake has done a lot of other shit that's not family friendly, but like they don't swear in their videos. Like they try to maintain a semi like, like they try to like basically not, they don't want to get demonetized from YouTube. They know how to play by YouTube's rules.

They also want to be family friendly enough that like they're not like too edgy where parents aren't going to let them, you know, kids go sign, like go to their pop-up shop and stuff. That's because ultimately like, and this is, this is sort of anytime the Pauls sort of come up, I sort of, I always, I always remember sort of the parents who are, you know, chucking money at, at bodyguards to try and let them into the shop to spend thousands of dollars on merch because that's why that much because this is the, it's, because it's, that's why I think it's sort of, it's, I think it's all sort of fundamentally insidious. Yeah. Well, parents want to make their kids happy. It's like, you know, and,

you know, I, yeah, it's, they want to make their kids happy. Their kids are obsessed and enamored with this guy. They scream and cry until they see them. And I don't know, you know, like I, I understand from a parent, it's like you're never going to understand what kids love. Kids also never idolize like the straight A boring student that just plays by the rules. Like they like the kind of people that speak back to authority or do crazy things or, you know, so they can live like that.

That's just how, how Jake and Logan Paul speak to authority seems to be, they just sort of, they sort of, they are, yeah, they, they are sort of, they sort of anarchic and unempathetic and they sort of, they, they sort of offend sideways and that, you know, causes and the, and so, and that sort of ends up reinforcing the authority of purchasing shit. Is that like sort of Dardest and Archaic Force? Like your parents say, go to school, get a job. I say, buy that merch.

Well, did you, yeah, my favorite, like his Christmas song, where he literally spells out the URL to his merch shop, spend a hundred dollars free shipping y'all. Okay. That's actually cool, right? Well, it's crazy. It was so surreal being in that. I mean, I literally did feel like I was in black mirror when I'm like in the merch shop, you know, and that song is playing and these kids are just like losing their minds over this guy. And like, it was just like, it was such a surreal experience.

And you realize the power that these influencers have over these young kids. And then the kid was like, mom, can you buy me this t-shirt? And she turned around and her mom was a phone black mirror. I'm wearing a team time sweatshirt. Brought by Charlie Brooker. One thing that I saw was people kind of saying, but oh, if Jake and Logan and like the rest of the team 10 gang and like, whatever, like leave you like YouTube's finished. Now, you know, there's two really interesting narratives.

So on the one hand, like you have all these right wing YouTubers, like Bill Mitchell and stuff, who are like, oh, if we leave YouTube or not Bill Mitchell, what's it like friend of the friend of the show? All these contingents of people who are like, if we leave YouTube and the platform is finished and therefore you need us more than we need you. And then on the other, I mean, and I can sort of see some sense in that, in that if those guys leave and all YouTube is is just like, you know, ripped Star Wars videos and like dads who do like weird.

It's what I use it for, which is ISIS techno remixes or like ISIS techno remixes. My current favorite genre of YouTube video is when someone takes the Skinner and Superintendent steamed hams clips from 22 short films about Springfield and does something weird with it where they're like, stretch it into seven minutes and put Metal Gear Solid sound effects in it. I've lost entire days to this. I guess I wanted to know, like, you know, as someone who kind of reports on this and probably thinks about what the future of these platforms look like.

Do you think that there is a risk that these guys will just say, you know, screw it, I'm going to leave and like go to jail or something? They're not going to go to gap. So the irony is that they need each other, Logan and Jake, and that they need YouTube as much on it to be honest, more than YouTube needs them. I mean, YouTube is a behemoth. Like you just mentioned, there's so many sub communities. This is not Vine 2014, 2015.

Like when those were the people driving the majority of views on the app, like, you know, YouTube is huge. And also what I think a lot of these influencers don't realize is how short their shelf life is, you know, unless they can successfully kind of like pivot themselves into more and more of a mainstream celebrity or like develop something that gives them a little bit more staying power. Like these kids, you know, the 12 year old super fan is going to be 16

and think that it's lame, you know, to still like Jake Paul. So it's, uh-huh. Yeah, anyway, basically no. Like when they're like, uh, like I'm leaving, they would never leave YouTube. I mean, if they did, that would, they'd be cutting off of their, one of their most biggest revenue streams. So they, no. So one thing you mentioned that I want to kind of follow,

you saw about the 12 year old fan. I also recently sort of saw that Jake Paul had begun sort of using child labor, child soldiers. A six year old has joined team 10. Ben Hampton. Is he like nine years old and richer than like all of us? He's six years old and he's probably richer than all of us. Yes. Or Jake's getting richer.

I mean, Jake takes a percentage of everyone's salary that joins team 10. So basically, yes, with Ben Hampton, he, his dad is this like super connected social media marketing type person and deals with a lot of these influencers. And, um, Ben is this like really energetic, kind of like cookie kid. And his parents started posting pictures of him on Instagram to kind of blow up on Instagram. And he just like idolizes Jake. Like he was in Jake's Instagram story, uh, this morning. And, um, you know, Jake just like jokes around with him.

And he's like, Hey buddy, like I pranked your car. And Jake's like, Oh, never. But Jake is like a weird, like fatherly figure to him too. Or like an older brother. Um, this kid's going to go full Steven paddock. I mean, here's the thing, like, and I, and maybe I'm too sort of like generous, but this, it's not like, okay, this kid idolizes Jake right now. He's six years old.

He's asked, you know, what, what do you want to be when he grew up? He says a vlogger like most kids today, like they idolize vloggers. Um, or like young kids at least, you know, who knows what he's going to be like when he's 15. I don't think it's like inherently bad to, um, like get your kid into the entertainment industry. I just think that you want to do it in a responsible way. His father does seem to like have limits around him. So it's not like, you know, it's not like he's like leaving this kid at the team 10 house.

Like basically Ben can come along with his father when his father is doing work or like shoots and stuff like that. Um, but like he's not like Jake, you know, he, this kid isn't living with Jake full time. Thank God. I don't even know how that would play out. But like, you know, he's not like the child of trash future. We put fentanyl in your pop tarts as a prank. It's hard because I, in one sense, I'm sympathetic to the struggles of like,

you know, like I can't imagine what it's like to be 20 years old and not have any guidance. And just kind of have all this money and all this autonomy and no one checking your impulses. Like it, obviously like it's a recipe for disaster. But on the other hand, I don't know, these people should know better. I feel like you don't, we don't really have a clear idea even from YouTube celebrities from like the really early days, like Lonely Girl 15 days. They're so different. Exactly.

It's completely different because like Lonely Girl 15, I would argue was one of the first, she was one of the first of this style of vlogging. I don't know. Yeah, but it's like so different. Like even since this whole like vine takeover of YouTube, which is honestly like really, like, I don't know if you guys watched the 2017 YouTube Rewind video, it's hosted by Lele Ponds and like it's all like vine, it's all former Vinders. And there's this whole kind of like click and generation of YouTube stars that,

that aren't at their heart and soul. Like creators or life casters, it's more about like drama, I guess. Like I don't know. I think there's something very different with influencers of today, verse 2015 or 2013 or certainly like 2009. So I think that the culture is totally different too. And the amount of money that they're getting is totally different. And the mainstream kind of legitimacy that they're getting is only growing.

And I just mean mainstream, like legitimacy is in the sense that like suddenly like these people have a really important place in culture and they're being relied on to like sell products or. And that seems to be just, so it's picking on something you said earlier, which is that it's now that it's now that these people sort of have no, have no checks on them. They have, they are behaving absurdly and that it's the drama that's driving this sort of incredible upward spiral of, you know, of wealth that's being generated both for the vloggers and for YouTube and, and, and, and, you know, shareholders like Alphabet and so on.

And it's, it is this, I think, outrageousness that might, that may, this is why I would say, would get into earlier, right? This is why Logan Paul films the dead body. Yeah. I mean, I, I saw a bunch of takes yesterday that were like, this is the natural conclusion of YouTube or like, this is what you get, you know, when you just let vloggers run wild on YouTube. And it's like, I don't know.

I mean, I, some people wrote better things than others in that line. And I was actually really mad. I've been working on this other story like all week. And I, all I wanted to do was like write shit about, uh, Logan Paul and my editor is like, no, you need to do other actual work. But, um, I mean, that is my also actual work, but I have had other priorities here. But, um, but I don't know, like, I don't, I don't think it's like necessarily just YouTube. Like these people are massive on like, they're, they're big on YouTube right now because YouTube's

allowing them to monetize. So that's the platform that they focused a lot in, but most of them are just as engaged, if not more in, on Instagram and they're extremely focused on building their Instagram audience. Like Instagram is a huge platform that they live and die by also and, um, and use, you know, when they're pitching themselves to brands and things like that. So, um, I don't, I don't know, like, yeah, YouTube is big, but I mean, Logan Paul specifically too, also was built this massive audience on Facebook. I mean, he obviously doesn't put as much effort into it as YouTube because you can't monetize it,

but, um, or he might even have, he might have like pre-roll and mid-roll videos, but he has, I mean, he has over 16 million fans on Facebook. So these people are like sort of like masters of social media and they can kind of take over any platform. Um, and so I don't think it's just like, I don't think it's just YouTube facilitating drama. I think it's like these people sort of like co-opting social platforms to, um, promote themselves and they promote themselves with drama, obviously, but. I do think the other thing, um, we should probably mention in regards to this is, um, it's again, talking about the inevitability of it. And what I, the first thing I did when I saw

it was I searched, you know, the name of the forest, which I can't pronounce. Alki Haggera. Yeah. And, um, there are just thousands of videos plus one really good vice documentary with a guy who goes around trying to convince people not to commit suicide. Highly recommend but also loads of videos in the similar vein of what Logan Paul set out to do, which is like, we spent, we spent a night in the creepy suicide forest. And I find it incredibly difficult to believe that any of them went in there thinking, oh, I hope, you know, thinking, oh, I hope we don't see a dead body.

I think they all kind of hope that would happen. I think they probably hope that there's like haunting and spooky shit that will happen that will like lead to better vlog content. Um, I almost feel like a, like a dead body is like kind of too edgy. I can't imagine that that Logan would have like wanted to find that just because I think it like clearly kind of fucked up the vision and the, I mean, most of what they do is like kind of like jokie, like teen, like, I don't know. Like, I, yeah, I guess I don't think that they'd necessarily, I think they probably would love to have like found a ghost or like had some interesting stuff happen.

They're modeling themselves. So Scooby-Doo, Scooby-Doo, right? We're back to Scooby-Doo. They're modeling themselves after the best blog of all time, The Blair Witch Project. Well, you know, it's funny though, like, you know, and also, I don't know, and I, maybe I'm guilty of this too. I mean, look, like drama has taken over YouTube in a, in a crazy way, but there's always been so much, I think people are paying attention to it now and it's getting mainstream attention because these people have a bigger place in mainstream culture. But, you know, vloggers fighting with each other and a lot of the other kind of stuff that fuels the daily kind of

like drama quota for YouTube, like, I don't know, like everything on drama alert, for instance, like that stuff has been happening for years. Like, especially in the gaming community, there just, there's like constant drama people swatting each other, people calling each other out, diss tracks on each other. Like, that's been going on for a long time. It's just that because these people have a bigger place in mainstream culture, it's bleeding into, like, the larger universe. And I think more like mainstream media is paying attention to it. Well, I think that's going to like last for long though, like as an aspirational YouTube of myself, I'm just worried that like my window is about to close.

You're late. I honestly, it's funny, like, I mean, a lot of the top subscribers, there was some study out recently, but like, you know, a lot of them actually have had, they haven't, they've sort of flatlined, right? Like, a lot of them have reached their, they're not growing exponentially as more, and it's such a crowded market. And because like every 15 year old window that the iPhone wants to be a vlogger, it's really hard to make your mark. You basically have to make your mark on a smaller social app, get really big there, and then become huge. So like, the biggest YouTubers now are like ex-viners, ex-musically people, kids that come over from Instagram. So, um, you know, I don't think, I think in terms of this, like, influencer culture,

like, maybe I think if the economy starts to get shittier, to be honest, a lot of it will seem kind of tone deaf. Like, I mean, I remember I was around in the 2008 recession, and I remember there was a lot of kind of, like, backlash against this, like, really exorbitant consumption with, like, Paris Hilton and, like, a lot of the early reality stars, like, sort of like, post-financial crisis, that all seemed very, like, strange, and I think, like, a different kind of stardom, like, a different kind of, like, celebrity kind of emerge. And I think that, like, if, I don't know, you know, we have this, like, crazy president in America right now, I think, like, if the country does take a turn, or, like, I think, like, a larger cultural forces will probably

force them to become irrelevant, or, like, this type of influencer to become irrelevant. Well, I'm calling it now, 2020 Republican ticket, Logan and Jake Paul. Un5 million dollars, no taxes, y'all. I mean, you joke. First of all, they're not old enough, they have to be 35, but you know Jake has already announced he's going to run for president one day. You joke, but I genuinely, genuinely think there will be, like, a YouTuber in the White House at some point. Guys, let's not forget when Obama invited, like, 30 of the biggest YouTubers, like, he invited, like, everyone on Vine, there's this, like, famous picture of them all in the White

House lawn, and people were like, one of these people is going to end up running our country. I mean, Jake Paul's, like, stayed the night in the White House. All right, social experiment, I'm going to press the nuclear button. Pranked. Pranked. North Korea, pranked. I don't know if you guys knew today, let YouTubers, like, interview all of the presidential candidates, like, Lele Pons, I think, like, or not, it was, like, Tyler Oakley and, like, I don't know, but they did this whole thing where they were, like, letting YouTubers

interview the presidential candidates, and it was just cringe-worthy. We are going to get, like, a weird distorted kids YouTube wrong heads president in 2024. Oh, God, the wrong heads thing. Like, one of, like, one of those toy freaks kids is definitely going to be class under. Oh, my God, yes. The one kind of wrong heads video I would watch would be one where it's just Jake and Logan Paul, because what difference does it make who has warheads? One has flat hair, God. Oh, no, can we, can we-

Logan's all looks like he-man from the cartoon. Oh, my God, he does. In his, like, apology video, I couldn't get over his hair. It was, like, I know. His hair is going so next level. It used to, like, it's always been this crazy thing, but it's, like, I don't know what he's doing with it now. It's true, like, hyper technological turbo capitalism is destroying the haircuts of the nation. I hope that, like, I don't know. I just, yeah, it'll be interesting. I mean, unfortunately, and maybe this is just me being cynical too, like, this is just only made the

more famous. So who knows, you know, it's like, you forget, it's, or somebody, I was talking to, this is, like, kind of a well-known sort of trope, but it's like, you kind of, like, get to know someone's name right from some scandal. And then, like, you know, six months later, you forget the scandal and you just kind of know their name. And then six months later, it's like, you see their name again, you know, I don't know, like, it's really easy to, I guess, just become famous and then write off your fame. And it doesn't matter if you're, like, famous for the wrong reasons. I'm writing a thing on Bad Baby, Danielle Burgoli. Do you guys know who she is? The Cash Me Outside Girl?

Yeah. Wow, she's in, How about that? She's done some interesting things with her fame, like, really, like, She's totally, right. So she's, like, totally, and first of all, this girl is 14 years old, but she's completely, I think, like, harnessed and pivoted herself, like, her, from public image, like, in a period of, like, like a year, like, she, I mean, also, she just gifted, she just paid off her mom's mortgage. And, like, it's so, it's so bizarre, we're like, this girl is basically,

like, famous because of this, like, public feud that she had with her mother. And, like, now everyone's, like, rooting for her. And she's, like, paying off her mom's mortgage. And she's, like, putting out, like, hit music. And, like, I don't know, it's just this, like, Funnily enough, there was a video of her, I think, dragging Logan Paul today that had gone viral. And I was just like, I was like, this is wild. I was like, I swear, like, six months ago, everyone was going crazy at her. And now it's, like, the other side, and they're cheering her on. She's now an establishment figure. I know people are like, what is, what does bad baby think of this?

It's funny though, like, I want to know her views on Brexit. Look, I, for one, think we need to give President Bad Baby a chance. Like, yeah, it's just, it's so funny how, like, these people can just be built up and torn down so much. Like, even Jake, it's, I mean, he's done some stuff, but it's like, I've seen him, like, idolized, and then, and then he gets backlash, and then he's idolized again, and then it's like backlash, and then it's like, wait, let's give him another, like, it's kind of like, I think anytime he pivots to your swings too far on one side, like, another side is like, what if he's actually good, you know, and then it's like,

Jay Paul, actually, a narco communist. Well, this is, this, this, I think the, this, what we think, the thing I think that's sort of really kind of been dancing around is just that it, it is now that it is 2018 stroke 2015, irony is dead, metaphor is meaningless, and the line between, and the line between entertainer and entertainment and audience is non-existent. Everything is completely literal, and, and, and, and sort of fame and drama and controversy no longer have any content. They just quite simply are drama. It's, that's why, it's why we go into Jay Paul's slogan. It's every day, bro. What's every day? What is it? Black Mirror. Vlogging.

The days of the week become a phone. The long dark shadow of late capitalism. Yeah. I think is what he's referring to. Because now I've realized the final step isn't Jay and Logan Paul becoming president. That's the penultimate step. The final step, the final step is, uh, it's Donald Trump becoming a YouTuber. Kim Jong-un refuses to buy my merch. Okay. Donald Trump is already an internet celebrity. He doesn't need to be co, he technically is one.

Sorry. Don't get me started on this. It's true. He is. That's true. He's basically, he's basically is our first influencer president. Oh yeah. I guess. Yeah. I mean, his fame incubated on Twitter. If it wasn't for Twitter, he would. I think, yeah. I think Jake and Logan will just like, yeah, like, I like the idea of them like leading a communist revolution. I mean, to be honest, I'm okay with anybody leading that particular revolution. Right. You know, you get guillotined in the first wave.

No, I'd be second wave. Do you know, do you know, before we started recording, he like showed us his ore? Oh, God. This is a fucking guy. Unfortunately, that's not euphemism. What does that mean? That's not a metaphor, but that's an actual. I wasn't here for this. I don't know.

Oh, yes, I was. I saw. Oh, sorry. I was here. Riley's ore is so unremarkable that you then forgot about it in time. I blanked it out after I called him posh. Riley's a communist, but he went to Oxford and he went and he did rowing there. You guys, one thing that I loved so much, which is like maybe why I loved Maison Chelsea, but like, I feel like in the UK, there's this like weird class system that like, I just don't understand at all. And like, wait, are Americans just hearing about this now? What do you, like, what do you see as like this as where this where this is going?

Like, where can we, where do you think this ends? What does it all mean? Where do I think it ends? I mean, I think honestly, I don't think that there's anything that like, YouTube is going to do to necessarily stifle this type of content on a platform. I think it's just going to become like culturally irrelevant and things will change. So I think that like, a lot of these tween kids that idolize Logan and Jake today are going to grow up. I think that, you know, hope, you know, change will happen in sort of like the economy or politics or stuff that will sort of like change the climate that these influencers operate in.

Like, they're so into this like public consumption and lavish lifestyle. And I think that like, eventually that will just seem dated and I don't know, lame to kids, eventually, hopefully, I don't know, I'm hoping. But I think that they're just going to become passe. Like, I think that this type of like drama and content and this like, classic kind of like vlog format that's, that's focused around like, I don't know, fights and diss tracks and stuff is just going to seem passe. There's also, I think that like, the nature of social networks are changing.

Like, I think that people are spending less time on these like big, broad based social networks. They're spending more time just like chatting with friends and engaging in other kind of apps and stuff. So I think like, I wonder, like, I don't know, you know, since Vine left and I guess there's been musically, but I haven't, I don't know that there's going to be another sort of like big mass social app that's going to facilitate fame. So who knows, but they're not going to go away anytime soon, unfortunately. Well, guys, sooner or later, to watch Logan Paul's videos, you're going to have to buy the internet controversy package from magic pie. So Taylor, thank you so much for coming on and chatting with us today. Yeah, thank you guys so much.

You guys make me wish I like lived in London and could hang out with you guys. Come roll. London sucks. I suck. Who's saying, who's saying never stops talking about anime. All right, later. See you. Bye. Oh, what's the doctor? Who knows? That's the noise Toby Young makes when he sees breasts. All right. This has been Trash Future. Thank you for coming on today. That's okay. It was weird as always. Yeah, it wouldn't be us if it wasn't.

I'm so proud of you guys. I'm so proud of you. Thank you. Say good night, everyone. Good night. Good night, everyone. Don't remember not to pee. Don't pee safely. Please. And if you, if you aren't peeing, just make sure you have an adult diaper. Make you pee on someone. Remember the motto, the motto of no P January is cystitis, not wristitis.