TRASHFUTURE - UnfAir KKKanada feat. Luke Savage

Episode Date: August 19, 2025

Luke Savage drops by to talk to Riley and Nova about the KKKanadian Government’s efforts to stymie industrial action by Air KKKanada flight attendants, and how it’s emblematic of his broader lurch to the right, which we also discuss. We end by discussing everyone in Britain’s new favourite holiday… Flag Day! Get more TF episodes each week by subscribing to our Patreon here! TF Merch is still available here! Trashfuture are: Riley (@raaleh), Milo (@Milo_Edwards), Hussein (@HKesvani), Nate (@inthesedeserts), and November (@postoctobrist)

I have some amazing news for Shadow Doge fans out there, which is, check this out. Brew Dog is fucked. Yes. Currently. The world's most annoying. and probably one of the most labor unfriendly beer companies. Oh, you mean the one that once sued another company for the rights to the word punk in a business context? The guys who launched equity for punks, those guys, yeah?

Yeah, the ones who made the co-working spaces with the indoor like ballpits and slides and stuff, that punk thing. Yeah, those guys, apparently, apparently. And I assume that this happened because of our, Nova, you're in my behind-the-scenes maneuvering in the shadows. Mm-hmm. We've been scheming. We've been plassing, certainly. We've been manipulating that the brew dog now is basically only accessible in

Weather Spoon's pubs. Where it belongs. That's fucking right. Derogatory. Yeah, so they've had to close all ten of their bars that they actually own in Scotland. I'm sorry for the job losses, but I'm also relieved in the sense of it's like the prison from Andor, you know, like. Yeah, so they are, uh, the punk IPA is down 52.

3%. So soon, soon, there is going to be only one shadow doge in town, and it's going to be us. I wanted to. That was just a little, a little, a little, a little, um, a little amuse bush. A little amuseboosh. It's trash future. It's an unusually short-handed trash future. Yeah, that's right. It is Nova and Riley, who are currently double-dragging it as the main host, joined by repeat guests and Canada expert and a recent dining companion of mine, Luke, how's it going? It's good. Glad to be with you guys. Nice to see. See, people are going to figure out at some point that the booking schedule of this podcast revolves around restaurants in Zone 2 London. In this case, this was in Toronto.

However, I actually... So like Zone 20, London. Yeah, based on who's coming on on the bonus episode this week, this is going to be two guests planned over dinner. So, you know, if you can taste, if you can taste it, that's what's happening. Luke is coming on to talk to us about various Canadian developments. I was there recently. I saw some Canadian developments,

especially, now, Nova, I don't want to shock you. I'm prepared to be shocked, though I'm ready. Okay. And if you're a listener, do hold on to something.

Uh-huh. Mark Carney has taken it quite, I wouldn't say alarming, but significant right-word lurch. Oh my God. This is the last thing I would have expected. I should say, for context,

that before we started recording, I was just kicked in the head by a horse, really hard, but this was the last thing that I would have expected from him, because he seemed so nice, right? He was going to be the guy who was going to stand up for Canadian values, like, you know, hockey and Mike Myers and stuff. And Canada was never going to be the 51st state. And he was going to forget everything he knew about being a Bank of England governor and sort of like, you know, be America's woker hat. Hmm. You know? And by the way, if you're

wondering, getting kicked in the head by a horse is how we sync up the recording. That's why it Sounds good. Yeah, the thing is the horse always kicks me on the beat after you say, Mark, which is kind of confusing, but you get used to it. Yeah, the rest of us clap. I don't know why you insisted getting kicked in the head by that horse. I'm living the dream, you know. Yeah, that's right. You know, that's just classic, that's classic Patreon stuff.

Well, here's the thing. These bits, they're not accessible to you any other way than me getting kicked in the head by a horse. So I hope it's worth it. Yeah, like 90% of the Patreon money just goes to horse upkeep. Yeah, conditions of employment, not dissimilar to a brew dog pub. Yeah, or not dissimilar to a flight attendant on Air Canada, which has, thank you so much. Masterful, Riley. Which is, I've been doing this for a while, which is not dissimilar to being a flight attendant on Air Canada,

who recently have gone on strike and then been given a, I would say, catastrophically unpopular back to work order and just another right word lurch by the Carney government. Oh, so he did a Joe Biden thing. Yes. Yeah, yeah. He's, he did the, he did like the least funny. Joe Biden things because I can't imagine you know what it is Mark Carney is not whimsical enough to thank Earth Rider for the Great Lakes I'm just going to put it out there

he's never going to do that kind of thing well I mean not least because you would have to do it bilingual you know yeah merci merci al uh fuck where's Nate yeah I also don't remember what the word rider is in French one second Chevalier maybe yeah

mercy a chevalier de la Terre yeah for a grand grand grand yeah for a la Grande Perfect, we nailed it This is inclusive And now we're getting some like funding From the Canadian government for this

Yeah, it's all good We alluded to Toronto So we're gonna get some provincial funding When Drake tries to curry favor with a new audience He's gonna try to use He's gonna try to like use our pro Toronto sent to Yeah, I'm sorry Drake podcasting ton

Yeah Oh yeah It'd be funny if it was with us That would actually be amusing I think we have like a vessing process that would not allow that to happen. At least I hope so. Yeah.

Anyway, anyway, this is what Carney has done. I think this is emblematic of, look, there are some times where we predict something, and I'm like, yeah, fucking crystal ball, we absolutely nailed that one. Other times, it's like, we predicted something like looking at a car speeding into a wall and being like, that car is probably going to hit that wall. Or if car halfway crashed into a wall, probably going to continue crashing into the wall. Neon ending up being kind of a damp scrim. Quib, they got killed by the very consultants that started it.

That's something I think anyone could have predicted. Mark Carney taking this extremely right word lurch, I am going to count it on the wall of successful TF predictions. It's going on the wall. The wall of hubristic, like, claimed prophecy that we have. Yeah. Yeah. It says, instead of saying, like, you know, know thyself on the top, it just says, we know

better. And then underneath it says, perhaps than the gods even. Yeah. In Greek. Yeah. Of course. In Greek that we have, don't speak. It's just sort of Google translated and guessed.

We can also French now as well, I hope. Lou Grande to Les Dieu. I'm so born at French, perhaps even more born than Le Dieu. Bigger even than the gods. So basically, we did predict it, but it's going on the wall, but it was not difficult to predict. So Mark Carney has ordered Canada's most beautiful women and gay men back to work on the planes. like dispensing snacks and like performing crucial safety functions. Well, you brought up, you brought up Joe Biden, Nova,

and I assume you were alluding to the rail workers strike, which Biden, you know, absolutely crushed and then sort of pretended it was the Republicans who crushed it. And actually, Mark Carney came out this morning, and he was asked about, you know, he was asked about the situation because, yeah, the union was ordered, I mean, they went on strike over the weekend. And within a few hours, the federal labor minister, who's actually now called the Minister for Jobs and Families.

There's no more Labor Minister in Canada. That's the kind of innovation Mark Carney's already bringing to the federal government. Jobs and families sounds exactly like something Morgan McSweeney would cook up when, like, Reform gets another five points on labor. My God. No, I mean, yeah, it's very much in that same wheelhouse. But so they directed the Labor Board to order the flight attendants back to work. The flight attendants promptly said they're not going to comply with the order.

And when Carney was asked about it this morning, he said, let's see, I got it in front of me here. He said, well, you know, I think that they've flight attendants deserve to be paid equitably. And, you know, I hope this can get sorted out as soon as possible, which is a little rich considering that he just directed his own, like, the call is coming from inside the house. The cabinet tried to bludgeon this union on behalf of the employer. And now they're sort of trying to have it both ways. It's pretty silly. It's not, I mean, it's no just watch me, is it? And we can talk about what are the flight attendant striking for, right? And when you talk about what they're striking for, it is any sort of class of workers that's been getting under inflation pay rises for years, like, of course, obviously they're going to strike. But with flight attendants, it's even worse because being a flight attendant is a lot more like being an Uber driver or a deliveroo driver or whatever than you might actually think it is.

because there's a huge, you're only really paid almost in piecework terms as a flight attendant. You're paid for when you are handing out the peanuts. You're not paid for when you're like doing all of the things that you might do before getting on the plane. Yeah, that's right. So, I mean, the issues at stake here, I mean, even by the standards of the kinds of things you would, you know, you're used to seeing in a strike situation, like outrageous executive compensation, low salaries for workers even who've been in their jobs for years. I mean, this is pretty extreme, even per the norm. This was a 10-year contract that was expiring. So it's a 10-year collective agreement.

So there's been no changes in the wages for flight attendants in the past decade. And since 2000, there's been 169% inflation in Canada. And as you were saying, Riley, the main issue at stake, you know, the management will tout these, you know, they're, whoa, we offered a 38% increase in wages over the next four years. That sounds pretty good until you realize that, yeah, the flight attendants are not paid until the plane starts moving. So that means all the time that they spend going to the airport, if they do safety checks and the plane's not moving, their pay doesn't kick in. So their position, which I think is a pretty reasonable one, and according to the polling that I've seen,

a majority of Canadians agree it's a reasonable demand as well, is simply that they be paid for the hours that the hour is that they're working. And just to put this in perspective, because I was astonished over the weekend watching flight attendants posting their pay stubs. So a full-time worker in Canada who earns the federal minimum wage gets $36,000 a year. And this is Canadian dollars, not American dollars. So obviously less. Now, because of the way that flight attendants are paid, an entry-level flight attendant at Air Canada, who is working full-time gets $27,000 a year before tax. The CEO of Air Canada, two years ago, his compensation was over $12 million, so that's a base salary of $1.3 million, plus the rest in stock options and capital gains, which are not taxed as regular income. They're taxed of 50% the regular rate. So just all of this is cartoonishly unfair.

Yeah. I mean, you say that, but have you considered that maybe the CEO of Air Canada is as useful to Air Canada's 400,000? 161 flight attendants might be. They're doing the work of 461 flight attendants. People don't know this, but actually the like, sort of capacity to dispense customer service is like, you know, really, really ingrained. Like the like package of peanuts like is in your lap before you even know it, you know?

Well, and if you've ever taken an Air Canada fly recently, you'll know what a good job is doing, you know. The seats are so spacious and comfortable. the tickets, reasonably priced, all of it's great. Flight attendants, very, very happy, well commentated. Everything's working great. Again, the other thing about flight attendants specifically is that that is a, like, gravely important job

to the, like, safety of commercial aviation, right? Like, if things go slightly wrong, you are depending on those people to, like, evacuate the aircraft for one thing. And it's like, in that situation, if you get on the plane and it says Boeing on the side and you think, okay, great, well, I'm going to die in the fucking plane crash, right? I want the person whose job it is to, like, get me in the, like, brace position so, you know, my dental records get preserved, or whatever, to be being paid for that time, maybe, you know? Like, and it feels, like, deeply, deeply ghoulish to look at all the kind of, like, inconveniences of commercial aviation and all the delays and go, oh, yeah, we're just not going to pay for all of those, even though you do have to be here and, like, wear the uniform and still work.

Yeah, it's completely absurd. And I guess a further piece of context here is that, you know, because this is a, so it's, you know, it's Air Canada. It's a private company. Used to be a crown company, but it was privatized. But it's still a federally regulated industry, which is why the, I almost said the labor minister, the minister for jobs and families. I mean, so this, they didn't even need back to work legislation here. They didn't have to recall parliament. They were able to appeal to a section of the labor code, section 107, which, you know, effectively means that, the minister can just send an email to crush a strike in a federally regulated industry if they can make the case that it's necessary to end a work stoppage in order to, quote, maintain or secure industrial peace. And what that means if you're the employer, in this case, Air Canada, is you can impose a 10-year contract on your workers that's incredibly inequitable and unfair. You can filibuster negotiations for eight months, which is what the company's been doing in the lead-up to this strike. And then when the workers finally, when the union finally calls a strike, you can just call

the big daddy federal government to come in and the minister of jobs and families will send an email and, you know, send them back to work. So, you know, it's like even more, like the dynamic here is even more slanted towards management than it would normally be. That's that old peace order and good government. Yeah. Well, the phrase industrial peace, right, is particularly goaling, right? And like, well, yeah, I mean, it's like under either the minister when she came out to do this, uh, do press conference over the weekend and say she was invoking section 107 of the labor code. I mean, essentially the argument she made was just an argument to never have strikes or never allow strikes in any circumstances because the very definition of a strike is it disrupts

industrial peace. So if the rationale is just, well, we can't let the piece of industry be disrupted. I guess we're never going to allow strikes. And like if we want to think about the, the sort of comparator case of the UK, which I think is quite illustrative. You know, there is, the, the UK government has lots of different ways to break strikes by public sector, uh, public sector employees, such as by threatening to say, okay, well, we're going to have the army do the bin collection, or we're going to have the army, uh, be doctors, or we're going to have the army do really anything else. Or we're going to, weirdly, we're going to have the British army be Canadian flight attendants.

Just like, why is a guy in and like a weirdly shaped? beret screaming at me and flinging handfuls of peanut. This is that very similar impulse among the national level governments to be basically just to get to decide what whose union really has any kind of meaning. Which to these people is ideally none of them of course. Yeah, well, of course. And I mean, I'd say the wording of Section 107 would be, I'm, I think the moment I heard it, I was like, oh my God, that is the most fucking Canadian thing I have ever heard.

It's like you are you are being forced back into. this big mangle in order to preserve industrial niceness. Literally, yeah. It's like, hey, we know that you're a little miffed about not getting paid for when the plane's on the ground, but, you know. Oh, sorry.

Sorry, sorry. Sorry, we're invoking 107. Sorry. Yeah, because I misapprehended this, right? Because I was always under the impression that Canadians had, you know, rights on account of being, you know, a better country. But it turns out that you actually had like a real

catch-22 situation involved, right? The whole time. The Canadian unit of public employees, right, which is, again, this like federally regulated union where that basically it's like, what if your union always had the sort of Damocles of like, oh, sorry, back to work, hanging over it in the form of an email. What they've done, I think, is again, and, you know, there's some, I've included in the notes here, just a video of some really, really classic trade union grandstanding, which is the CUPE national president saying, you know, we hear your back to work order. We are directing our members to defy it. This guy Mark Hancock.

And then again, in front of a crowd of cheering sort of flight attendants and other CUPE members has printed off the email in order to rip it to shreds in front of them. Sick. I love union grandstanding, actually. I'm a big fan of it, you know? Like, sometimes it's the only thing you can do,

as it seemed in this case. Yeah. Well, I think, yeah, and actually in the wake of that, in the wake of, you know, QP's defiance of the back to work order. I mean, so it sounds like they will probably issue a charter challenge. This will go to the court, so that won't be decided anytime soon. Because in theory, the right to strike is a constitutionally protected right. But since the union announced it would not obey the back to work order, the rest of the labor movement has rallied around it, you know, pretty incredibly, pretty quickly.

There's been this, you know, solidarity across the labor movement. There was an emergency meeting of some kind, I gather last night, organized by the Canadian Labor Congress. And a number of the other unions, including Uniform, which is the biggest private sector union in the country, are apparently going to be, you know, they're going to be sending people to the, to the picket lines, but also contributing financially, because of course, by going on a wildcat strike, QP is facing potentially very significant financial penalties and their ability to, you know, to weather the storm will really depend on the depth of their financial coffers here. So the feds, I think, are playing with fire because when Doug Ford tried to do this in Ontario, when he tried to invoke the notwithstanding clause in

order to eliminate the right to strike, every union in the province put themselves in a general strike position and the threat was withdrawn. So I don't know, we're not quite in that territory yet, but the federal government is certainly playing the fire here. Very, very funny for it to be Mark Carney kind of just like in the grayest way possible just like oops sorrying my way into a general strike and by the way

if you want to talk about support for a general strike I mean listen I'll support a general strike on against anything pretty much for any reason I want shit to look like you know 1919 Italy all right Nicoletta Bambachi all right so basically nine and ten

Canadians and this is again numbers quoted in the financial post not like These are not like sort of, you know, numbers from nowhere, believe that flight attendants should essentially be given their demands and 60% believe that they support the wildcat strike. You know, this is, there is a super majority? That's, that's, I was going to say, is Canada in a similar position to the UK where like every political party's numbers are, ah, fucker, these guys even though we hate them, kind of numbers.

Well, Carney himself currently has a 68% approval rating because he's only been prime minister for a few months and it's the summer and people aren't really paying attention. But this is the first thing that could potentially drag that down. And actually just some further polling here, I'm not sure if that was the Abacus poll. You were citing there, Riley, but Abacus, which is a, you know, thoroughly mainstream pollster, they did some polling. I mean, it was commissioned by Kupy. They are an independent pollster, though. And they found, yeah, 59% of Canadians agree. The federal government should respect the right of workers to strike, even if it leads to travel. Disruptions. David Coletto, the CEO of Abacus, he's written a post on Substack, kind of analyzing the

numbers, and he says, I think this decision may undermine the very promised Carney campaigned on in an era shaped by the precarity mindset. Canadians were seeking stability, competence, reassurance from economic policy, but also from how the government engages with the people who keep our society functioning. Now, if Mark Carney was to campaign on those terms, and I do think that's an accurate characterization of what a lot of people were seeking from a Mark Carney-led government, If it only took him 12 weeks to just sort of stumble into a general strike, you have to admit that would be pretty fucking funny. It's like also really good that on the numbers,

having both general strike and Mark Carney have comparable approval racings, which means the median Canadian voter is like, I like that guy, but they should shut down the economy, though. So here's the thing, do you know who you're describing? You are describing my dad. Okay. You were describing literally my father, who has basically been radicalized in like the Cardi Fedain

by how much he hates Donald Trump, specifically because of the 51st state stuff. He didn't give a shit about it, but like my dad did not give a shit about this stuff before. And as soon as Donald Trump started talking about the 51st state, he was like, I don't know, like stockpiling Claymore Mines. That's a joke. He's not stockpiling Claymore Mines. I don't think he owns any weapons, to be clear. If the United States tried to invade Canada or an ex-Canada, they would face a militant insurgency of baby boomers who would, like, be a fiercer foe than the Viacong.

Like, I guarantee. The Albu's up movement, like the Viacong had nothing on the elbows up movement. I mean, you see like the, like, radicalized liberal boomers are so much more likely to look at the right wing party and just post under their own name on Facebook. Yeah, we should kill all these people. Anyway, so this is my dad. He's like, yeah, obviously the flight attendants should be paid. Yes, they should strike. I also fucking love Mark Carney because fuck America.

Yeah, yeah, my dad, right down the middle. The other thing that I was thinking of when I was thinking about the flight attendant strike is the last moment of popular mobilization that stuck a wedge between a certain segment of the population and the government, I think was the trucker protests, basically, right? is like obviously the right wing version of this right it's a bunch of small business owners get dressed up in their sort of you know butchist most rugged costume and then protest against public health measures essentially protest against the idea that there are you know things we owe one another for example you know and i think the and we want to i want to get on to talking a little bit more in jen not just about the strike but about how like that reflects this sort of collapse of carnism only again like a couple months yeah it's like been a month yeah it's like been a month yeah

But how, like, these two events pose, like, unique challenges to the parties that are supposed to respond to them, right? Like, the conservatives were essentially torn to pieces by the trucker protests because, like, you split from, like, the, you know, Brian Mulroney sort of sensible urban, sort of sensible urban conservatives. And then, you know, the, like, people who are like, no, we're either in the Tories or the People's Party of Canada and, you know, who just edged it to the Tories. Those people all got split apart by the trucker protests. And now, like, that's the only right wing in Canada. And I mean, you know, the NDP doesn't have so much sort of political clout right now. So the only people who are really responding to the flight attendants is the liberal government. And again, it seems like once again, this is going to be a problem for them that doesn't go away. They're going to want to move on to talking about how they're going to govern, for example,

how they're going to use AI to make public services more efficient. But, you know, which again, Carney wants to do. He's exactly like Kier-Starmer. It just somehow like 5% more charismatic than Kier-Starmor. Which still translates to a 68% approval racing, which Starwood would have to, like, climb up to over a period of about 5,000 years at this point. Yeah. It's genuinely, like, astounding how much of it is just a personal charisma gap. And then you wonder why the Labour Party isn't plotting harder.

I guess the answer is because everybody else they have is worse. Yeah. What are you saying you wouldn't take to the streets for Yvette Cooper? Angela Eagle? The streets against Yvette Cooper. Yeah, Angela Eagle, not doing it for you? No, I, not a huge Angela Eagle head, I would say. Oh, no, you're not in the flock.

I know, I'm sorry. But I just think, like, that these two events can be seen roughly in parallel as key challenges to the Canadian right and the Canadian center, essentially. I think that's right. I mean, I think the context, the specific political context were different, but I, but yeah, I generally am in agreement with the parallel. you're drawing. I mean, with the trucker protests, those became very much anti-justin Trudeau protests. And the, you know, Trudeau government and Trude himself was really unpopular at that time.

Carney is still pretty popular because he's only just appeared. Most people had never heard of him seven or eight months ago. And then they saw him in that ad with Mike Myers. And they thought, okay, yeah, this guy, this guy might be okay. And then they got radicalized like your dad, like your dad did. That is a very real phenomenon. It explains, probably like 80% of the outcome of the federal election. But I think it'll be really interesting to see how this plays out because it already has the makings of something that could be very disruptive in a way that, you know, yeah, hurts the, hurts the federal government, dense its image. And Carney, you know, if you look at his personal numbers, the thing that he is, you know,

unsurprisingly pulls the worst on is people's perception of, you know, does he understand the struggles of regular people, which, you know, as a guy who worked at Goldman Sachs and then helped for 13 years and helped, you know, manage 2G7 central banks, it's probably safe to say he doesn't, right? So, you know, if this escalates, I think it could become, yeah, very, like in very short order, we could see a major crisis for the government. And I mean, part of the context here, and I think part of what explains why not just QPy, but all of the other unions are rallying so hard here is that it certainly looks like when the Carney government introduces a budget in the fall, they're going to try to very significantly cut the federal public service, possibly tens of thousands

of jobs. And so, you know, the unions have, I mean, in a sense, in relative terms, nothing to lose at this point by digging in their heels. And I think it's very good that they are. I mean, we're talking about the budget as well. I think that's a good place to move on, which is that Carney says he wants to spend an additional $9 billion on defense and is told cabinet ministers have to find between like 10 and 15% financial savings in each department in advance of this false budget. And Nova and I have seen this play before. We're very familiar with how this goes, which is this is going to begin to make governing Canada be an unpopular thing to do

because it's going to make the experience of being governed by Canada worse for more people. Yeah, but, you know, there's new stuff though. So, you know, that'll be cool. You can see some F-35. Yeah. It's not even hugely to deride the kind of need for those so much as it's just like you're choosing to do that by making every other kind of lever impossible to pull, you know? Yeah.

We're melting down all of the remaining doctors and using them as a kind of sort of substitute fuel. It's doing military Keynesianism and then getting in the car and driving like four hours and then go, oh shit, I forgot the Keynesianism. Yeah, I'll get it next time. It's just military. There's no can't. Indianism in this. Yeah. Well, the best, the best part of it is that in order to do all that

military procurement, it's like, where are they going to get that equipment from? They're going to get it from the United States mostly, right? I mean, the F-35, obviously. And the funniest thing about the F-35 is even after, even if Canada does get those jets, apparently because of how they're set up in terms of the hardware, if the Americans want to switch them off, they can literally just switch them off. Like, even once they're in Canada's possession, useless. This is something that, you know, sort of Trump said officially, but like there are like huge, huge kind of like supply chain issues there. And I think the only answer is you got to find the shed where one older Canadian man hid the last surviving Avro Arrow. This is what it's going to say.

We got to find it. I don't have an ulterior motive. I'm not just saying this because I think it would be cool. I think this is like an essential part of Canadian defense. An essential part of Canadian defense just so happens to be. a really sweet-looking plane with like a big central engine. Yeah, yeah. And they should let me like get up real close to it and like, you know, like, you know,

maybe like slap it on the side of the wing and call it a great bit of kit. Like that that's also essential. Like that's, you know, that's a strategic decision. Here's what I'll say about the Averroero does deserve the title, great bit of kit. Absolutely. So the whole idea here is that, again, so the reduced spending by 15% between now in 2029 cut,

as you said, Luke, tens of thousands of jobs from the federal public service, replace those roles with AI somehow. And that wording is, because Carney released a, he released the seven principles of carnism recently. The governance of Canada by Mark Carney. Early in his term, he released his mandate letter. And it says, okay, with the seven pillars of carnism are, I'm not going to do the joke, don't worry.

Establishing a new economic and security relationship with the U.S., building one Canadian economy by moving inter-provincial trade barriers, and expediting nation-building projects that will connect and transform our country. It's very funny that, again, he's talking about nation building. Weirdly. Yeah. Takea is on there as well, because I guess we have to ask you a few more questions. You know, is that, again, he's talking about nation building. Well, and he kind of ran on, we are going to revive Canada from its like doldrums under Trudeau.

And then already is talking about slashing federal budgets. He's already like, you know, going to war with organized labor. Like, this seems pretty much like a sort of, not even a broken promise so much as just a bold-faced swindle. Well, that's, that's how you get dynamism from a guy who, I assume, knows a lot about dynamism, right? Like, if there's one thing you're selecting for, for, like, you know, senior bankers, it's, you know, a really kind of, like, dynamic, unpredictable, kind of, like, move fast and break things, energy. Well, it's, yeah, I mean, it's very much the case that they ran on this kind of, like, they constantly talked about nation building.

They, the liberals ran ads. They had these very, very slick election ads with kind of wartime stock footage and, you know, like all this imagery of post-war housing construction. Mark Carney, even just the slogans he used, he kept talking about how Canada was going to reclaim its economic destiny, which is something that Ed Broadbent, who was leader of the NDP in the 70s and 80s, late friend of mine, he campaigned on that slogan.

So whatever people heard in the liberal messaging, they definitely did not hear like massive cuts to crown companies and federal departments. You know, it's just like this, like this is only nation-building, Like, if this is nation building, then, like, literally anything is, is nation building. Nation building is when you make the country, quote, unquote, more competitive, you know? Yeah. That's the logic here.

Mark Carney sat all of the sort of radicalized boomer dads down in Ashura to try and talk to them. Yeah, just like, you look at this and it's like, you're really about it. It's like, they gave an 18-year-old, like a shipping container full of cash and then put them in charge of the Iraqi Ministry of Jobs and Family. But by the way, by the way, I should mention there is also a minister for AI, like actually just, that's the title. And this guy used to be a CBC broadcaster. You might recognize this name, Riley. His name is Evan Solomon. And he was let go from the CBC in 2015 in this very weird and very Canadian scandal where it turned out he was brokering art deals, like he was using his platform to sell expensive paintings to people. And that story actually in, involved Mark Carney as well because apparently when Evan Solomon was selling this art to like, I don't know, posh people that he met through doing the news, he would, he had a code name for somebody that he kept referring to as the gov. And it turned out that that was Mark Carney. So now he's

minister for AI. Yeah. Amazing. And the role of AI in this new administration that again, this like sort of smarmy CBC guy, Smarmy X CVC guy is going to be pushing is, was replaced tens of thousands of federal public service workers with chat GPT. What could possibly go wrong? And so the next pillars of carnism are, of course, bringing costs down for Canadians, making housing more affordable by unleashing the power of public private cooperation. Hell yeah. Pretty good.

Why haven't we tried that before? Oh, yeah, especially not in Canada, the country that has the single worst housing crisis across the global north. Yeah, definitely we just need a little, just more private sector, just a little more private sector in our nation building. Look, when we involved Halliburton in the private sector, building programs in Iraq and Afghanistan, it went super well. They have the gas station now, okay? They hung out in a lot of great churas. It was fun. It was cool. Everybody got along and, you know,

if you were the minister of jobs and families, then you did get to get the shipping container full of cash and you did get to then have a really big house in Paris. Anyway, we also would say, oh, we're going to protect Canadian sovereignty by strengthening the Canadian armed forces. We're going to attract the best talent in the world to help our economy while lowering our overall immigration rates. We're going to spend less on government operations using AI so Canadians can invest more in people. in businesses and build the strongest economy in the G7. And if you're listening to this, you're a regular listener to this show,

think back to when, I think the last time we had Dan Davies on, we talked about Keir Starmer's four missions. Four of them are just in here. They're the same missions. The missions were after the pledges, but before the goals, right? Oh, sorry.

Nova, you might have mistaken. There were the foundations. Yep. You're missing the foundations, I'm afraid. Oh, okay. No, we had the pledges, and then we had the missions. We had the foundations,

which linked the missions together and then those were measured by a number of milestones. Gotcha. Okay. Was it in the Ed Miliband era that they literally had like a giant like men here or like stone tablet with the 10 pledges on? And that's the one which

gave us like the greatest novelty mugs of all time. I'd still love to have one where you have like a mug and it says like I'm voting labor for controls on immigration. Yeah. Yeah. But like you know how every social media app is just turning into TikTok right now?

You know, it's every, every global North government is just slowly turning into one another. Creeping global brisinnification. This is genuinely terrifying, the terrifying prospect of, again, you know, like the British kind of like derangement sweeping the world. But this time, it's not through a kind of like, you know, imperial iron fist. It's just all of the lips have just run out of ideas. And for some reason, when they do this, they go to the least popular one of them on a, you know, the last shall be first kind of deal and go tell us about how you achieved your success in making

everybody in your country despise you yeah like please prime minister stormer i know i only get to ask you three questions it's a humble supplicant however can you please review my seven priorities against your six milestones three foundations etc etc anyway but this is kind of what i wanted to if it was one thing i wanted to draw out of this long canadian conversation it was that We've talked about the U.S. elements of it becoming more British of some combination between like Anglo-Paronism, whereas in Canada, they're also rapidly becoming more British. Like, and I think there's a number of things that create this, right? Like, people reading and consuming similar kinds of media and similar ways will make them politically more simple.

Like, that will help you, that will help structure political, yours political beliefs. Right. This is how you get ideology, right? And that a lot of people's ideology, a lot of people's ideologies are coming from the same trash can. And so, you know, Starmer and Karnie and so on are trying to solve basically the same problems using basically the same tools, even though they can see one another resolutely failing to do it. And I mean, I think among Karnie who's a pretty arrogant guy, there is a strong belief that it's like, well, I'm smarter than that asshole Starmer who has totally fucked up the public private partnership to revitalize the housing market. Also, everyone before me fucked that up, but I'm going to do it, basically. That's the only

the explanation I could think of. He really is. You know, I just actually, I read his book that he published in 2021. Mark Carney had this bestselling book called Values and it's like value with like an S in a bracket. And like, yeah, I mean, one just does have the impression. Please tell me the S is a dollar sign. No, but it should be. Like ostensibly the point of that book is that, you know, the market creates value, but then there's other kinds of values like, you know, ethical and moral values. that are not captured by the cold, indifferent logic of the market, which sounds good until you get through like six or 700 pages or however long that book is.

It's a fucking, it's a tombstone of a book. And like all it's really doing is just making the case, like we just need a more enlightened business class. When he refers to, like the collective that he constantly refers to, it's like the most Mark Carney thing imaginable is he says, individuals in their firms. So like that's the, that's the vanguard of change. Like individuals in their firms must do,

X, Y, or Z. And I think Carney is a more self-assured person and many ways a slicker politician than Kirstarmer, but I think you're right, Riley, it is part of the same continuum of, yeah, neoliberal politicians who just constantly insist against all the evidence in the face of all the unpopularity and popular opposition to the things that they do, that we are just one weird trick away from restoring some kind of like, I don't know, collective abundance or, you know, broadly shared prosperity. And it seems like they will continue to gut the state. They will continue to gut civil society. They will continue to redistribute wealth upwards, like until something stops them. They're just completely hell-bent on this. Yeah. Well, and the thing that's going to stop

them is whatever like right-wing lunatic just roars into power after them. Like, we know who that's going to be in the UK. I think the only reason we don't know who that's going to be in Canada is because the roaring right-wing lunatic that was basically knighted by the press is a sort of odious and excreble dork that everyone hates. Who is also, you know, like sort of poisoned by association with Trump, right?

Yeah. Very much so, yeah. And by losing his own seat, he lost the seat that he's represented since 2004. He lost it by 4,000 votes. And actually, you know, just today is the as the by-election in Alberta where he's hoping to re-enter parliament and there's no question that he will.

On a write-in campaign! That's the funniest thing about it. He's contesting Battle River, Crowfoot, on a fucking write-in campaign against 200 other people who've largely signed up, I think, to prank him. Incredible. It's the longest, the longest ballot in Canadian history.

I think it's 273 candidates. Jesus. He is the most eminent legal. Like, a lot of people like to grandstand about like, you know, oh, I'm going to give you a swirly nerd. He is the genuinely most belieable right-wing figure that has ever existed. So, you know, he is basically like my open question, I think we may have talked about this even last

time you came on the show, Luke, is we know the script, right, that Canadian politics is following, which is the technocratic liberals have locked out any opposition to their left and are currently doing things like crushing unions, cutting the state, blah, blah, blah. And because the state wants what the right wants, the sort of roaring, fascist paramilitaries want. Generally speaking, the opposition to that will be framed in right-wing terms and a insurgent populist right-wing candidate will be sort of topping the polls kind of forever. And we just don't know who that is in Canada yet, I guess, unless somehow Polyev can restore his image. Yeah, I mean, he's in a bit of a precarious position as well. Like, there's no

question he'll be back in parliament. I think the question is just, does he get, like, the concert has got 80% in that writing in the election. So if he gets less than that, people are going to make fun of him. But he's going to be up for a leadership review in, I think, either November or January when the conservatives have their conference. And there have been some rumblings. There are potentially some challengers, although it's not clear yet if, you know, there's a coherent challenge in the works. And yeah, the other big factor is that the NDP has only seven seats in parliament, doesn't have official party status, and is about to begin its own leadership race. So, you know, the Carney government can do.

all of this unpopular stuff, but it's not really, you know, the opposition right and left is not exactly in the best position to exploit it. I cannot make a prediction about what's going to happen with the conservatives. They're in a total mess. And they're in a total mess despite having gotten more than 40% of the popular vote, which is something that they have never done this century. So it's all very strange. Yeah, yeah. It's Canada's, you know, it's missing a few of the pieces to do the usual sort of like late 20th century, stagnating global North economy to build the whole playset. So, you know, I'm constantly wondering, where's the rest of it? When's the rest of it going to come in? Anyway, look, I wanted to move on to one more thing,

a little, a little sort of reading-ish, a reading-ish, we're going to, we're hopping back over the pond. We're back in England. Because I actually don't, I'm really embarrassed. I forgot to celebrate it this year, but I just want to wish both of you and anyone listening, I didn't even listening as of tomorrow, I guess. So this is happy belated. But to you two, a happy Operation Raise the Colors Day in England. See, I thought it was going to be Strong Britain Great Nation Day, which we've also been fucking not remembering. Yeah.

So, no. So, and if you're listening, happy belated Operation Raise the Colors Day. So this is Operation Raise the Colors. You might be asking, what is it? It started out, look, this trend that swept the nation, right, that makes Labuboos and Roblo blocks look like, you know, the... Oh, everybody's doing it. Yeah, absolutely. Everybody's doing Operation Raise the Colors.

And it was, it started out as a mere Facebook page. No, really? Yeah, something like this on Facebook. It's this thing that we all do. It just started out on, on like, a face. That's crazy. Wow, okay. Really makes you think. And it's, uh, basically what's happening is, is the initiative, because it's an initiative. This is being written

about in the telegraph, has spread to towns and cities, including Bradford, Newcastle, Norwich, and Swindon with activists Put that on the side of the fashion house Okay, sure Wow, they got Swindon? Yeah, they got Swindon With patriotic activists Putting up England and UK flags

In defiance of council bands Listen, I know a lot of woke council workers worked very hard on those bands Of flying England and UK flags, right? And so I don't think it's fair to disrespect their labour like that, you know? This sounds very much like the British equivalent of the elbows up movement

Yeah, well, it's elbows up, but to non-white people. It's elbow up, but with the rest of the arm as well. And then it's just one of them, and it's just pointing in a particular direction with all the fingers. Yeah, you got to see our version of elbows up. It's really different. So basically, yeah, the article is called flags raised by patriotism campaigners removed by London Council. And like, we've seen, because I've noticed you seeing this Nova, lots of, like, newspapers and news aggregators being like, oh, the Southport protesters. Those activists.

Those harmless activists whom we all, you know, know and love and respect, you know, who just wanted to protest about, you know, the things. You don't want to get active. They always say, be active. I mean, here's the thing. I'm not as reflexively down on like the British flag as I might be or even the English flag. But because the effect of having been kicked in the head by that horse are kind of wearing off a bit because it's been almost an hour. I do, when I see someone making a really big deal out of it in a kind of like wagling their eyebrows, ooh, I bet this triggers you.

Are you triggered by this thing? I think to myself, maybe that person's part of the British elbows up movement. This is something that you see sort of, you know, discussed to death, right? I think it's worth thinking about, which is, it's like, oh, you know, how come the left in Britain seems to hate its own flag? Like, the Canadian left doesn't hate the Maple Leaf, blah, blah, blah. Well, I mean, I would venture an answer to this, which is that we've had several decades of explicit neo-Nazis trying to use specifically like ostentatious display of the Union Jack as a kind of like branding exercise. And then we've seen a bunch of like spineless liberal politicians immediately capitulate to it by cloaking themselves in said flag at the same time that they're specifically being like, I'm going to agree with all of those people about immigration, right?

And I think all of those things together, you might derive a reasonable suspicion of the flag from that, maybe. It's almost as though these concepts aren't just things, individual, unconnected things, just zipping around. Like, there is such a thing as the flag. And the flag has its flagness and it has its Englandness. And that's not connected at all to how, I would say, a pretty successful, as you'd call it, multi-decade propaganda campaign by fascists to completely co-op the flag. Aside from its use in like imperial, you know, war, like crimes in like Ireland and beyond, you know, aside from that even. Past and present.

Yeah, exactly. And but you say about spineless liberals capitulating because of course we had to, Operation Raise the Colors was never not going to get a comment from Keir Starmer. Oh, of course. Man loves commenting. He just, he loves to yap, you know? So. Fair enough. So Keir Stomber's official spokesman said, I haven't asked him about specific cases or specific councils, but the PM has always talked about his pride in.

being British and the patriotism he feels. He talked about that previously, and he's talked about it most recently, when the lionesses had their successful campaign in the Euros. That's really funny. Here's the thing. I took a walk through some of the comments, right? Which is an unpleasant experience. But Starman did all of this stuff, right?

Like, he really went hard on, like, flag on everything. All the party brochures. He was always being photographing in front of a couple of them. And he was, it was like really like, it was like Trump hugging it, you know? Like, he's really getting attached to this thing. like semantically. And for all that, his reward is all of these people in the comments still think that he's a gay Muslim communist, right? Who hates the flag and everything that it stands for because what it stands for to them is the stuff that even though he's doing, he's never going to do enough for them, which is, you know, like mass deportations, if not like machine gunning small boats.

Yeah, this kind of triangulation which like the, you know, the nominal British center left or whatever, seems even more addicted to than its American equivalent. Like, yeah, like, at what point in, like, you spend, like, a decade or more doing this and people on the right, in this case, like, you know, reform voters or, you know, the handful of people who might still vote for the Tories, like, they still, yeah, like, they probably, they all think Keir Starram was a communist, you know? All those same people in the United States thought Joe Biden was a communist or Kamala Harris was a communist.

Like, this just doesn't work even on its own terms. Yeah, well, the spokesman went on. The spokesman had more to say. They were like, you know what? You know, this is worth, like, four fucking skinheads put up a flag somewhere, and this is worth like a two-paragraph response from Downing Street being like, you know what? We love those guys.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We hate the councils that are enforcing laws that you can't just put a flag up on a council building, just like for fun, unless you work at the council. So, asked if Sir Keir was in support of people putting up English flags. A spokesman replied, absolutely, patriotism, putting up English flags. We put up English flags all around Downing Street all the time.

Every time the English football team, both the women's and the men's, are around. All right, two things, two things. First of all, thing one, please like me, please like me, please like me. Thing two, really funny that women's football specifically gets two mentions in this statement, a thing which all of these people also think is gay Muslim communism. Yeah, that was one of my favorites actually, which is like, you can think you can just Stormer being like, all right, care, this is the greatest needle you'll ever thread. We're going to support the skinheads who are plastering St. George's crosses all over the council buildings, while at the same time not alienating the liberals.

I would a little admirer at the end there. Yeah, it's like, what does skinheads like football? What are like guardian reading lips like women's football? So I like all football, all the kinds. The perfect synthesis. Yeah, I love patriotism putting up. I also like, we punish English flags all around Downing Street all the time. I'm really hoping for some kind of like negatively polarized left-wing backlash local election

because I really want a your party controlled council to actually ban every flag but the trans flag and make flying the trans flag mandatory. I would like that to happen quite a lot. Basically, what you're saying is you want to live in the nightmare world that like reactionaries and turfs create for themselves. where it's like, we've reversed all the bathrooms. Yeah, exactly. I do, I do. But I'd like it to be Glasgow City Council, you know?

Do you want to announce anything? If they're down to me as a candidate, I may as well just walk into the fucking ocean. There have to be better choices. So Downing Street went on to emphasize that the prime minister was not familiar with the events in Birmingham or Tower Hamlets, where the operation raised the colors was countered by. by jackbooted council workers who are just saying, can't put a flag up there, mate. Can't do that. Yeah.

Are you telling me that because of woke, I'm not allowed to climb this unsteady scaffolding and precariously hang a racist flag? Yeah, it's gone too far. It says, but I see someone's highlighted this next passage. I says, but basically when he was like,

look, I can't comment on individual council matters because all of this is down to health and same thing. I'm not going to endorse every flag, right? Just in general, I appreciate the principle seeing a bit of cloth last rank. Very nice. I'm a vexillologist, and I believe, I believe that...

I've been watching some CGP Gray videos. And I believe that it is perfectly sensible, even necessary, to amuse your enemy by flying the flag of a Portuguese trading ship. We need to record left on Red So I'm so excited to talk about Desolation Island. It's coming. I've been sick and traveling. I had to go back to Canada for a family thing. We're doing it.

We're on it. But he says, after he says, like, look, I can't comment on those councils. He says, but when it comes to the PM being a patriot, he's been very clear that it's important to him in the past. I love, I love like how equivocal, like they're triangulating within the triangulation. They're adding all these qualifiers and stuff. And the fact that it's not even Starmer himself, it's a spokesperson, like speaking in the passive voice. Like, the PM is on record that he is a patriot. And that, that much is clear.

Yeah, like, this is what you say. if you get discovered with like cross of St. George toilet paper, this is not how you respond to like whatever this is. But so campaigners were also seen today painting roundabouts in Birmingham in England colors after officials sparked fury last week by tearing down St. George's crosses in the south of the city over claims they pose to safety risk. Here's the thing, right? Just on a pretty basic level, right?

If you're in England, generally speaking, you already know that. you know that you are in England because of all of this stuff, you know, like Big Tesco's transphobia, right? Normal stuff, right? Why then do you need to be like, I need my security blanket color-coded bit of cloth to remind me that I am here, right? What kind of, that as a statement of identity

can only ever be a kind of like perceived defensive one or like I'm trying to provoke someone with it, right? Yeah, this is why it's like these guys are all filming themselves doing this all the, time because it's like, oh, I'm being a little bit naughty. And you're like, wait, why is that naughty? He's like, it's not naughty. It's not naughty to do this. Why would think it's not to do this? You don't even, you don't even need like a flag of England in England because that's what the England is for. It's just there. You can just walk around it, you know?

Tyrone, a cleaner who works for the Tower Hamlets Council, had been on Marshwall Road all morning, cutting down England and Union Jack flags from Lampost and dumping them in the rubbish. Number one, it's a union flag. It's only Union Jack if it's not a ship. This is, this is my hero. this is the dream job get paid to throw a bunch of England flags in the bin all day. Fantastic. But he decided to leave it around midday and finish his job

tomorrow due to the amount of abuse he and his colleagues have been receiving from frustrated locals. Again, huh, interesting. The patriotism campaigners, you're saying they were hurling abuse at the council workers who were like... Weird. That's weird. Odd. Huh. This is a fucking joke. One of them shouted before adding, we're just going to put them back up anyway.

Yeah, my job. My job is to official of the sullied union jacks excuse me union flags out of the bin and then hang them back up yeah of course uh really it's the it's the flag of um it's all jack and bins i mean i the ideal here is like uh town handlets council employs a separate crew of guys to like come out and do that it's like muscle confusion right yeah well it's that's canesianism yeah flag cansyanism um so tyrone told the daily mail look i was just sent here by my manager to take these flags down. I don't know the significance of these flags, but I've been taking them down and getting abused by people telling me to leave it. This is the most exasperated man in Britain. Yeah. I mean, listen, it's not, it's not a stupid decision if you ask me to be like sincere about it. But like, who cares that much? Jesus. Like, they ask me, they say, what does Britain become? And don't take them down. And the mayor is a wanker. And they get annoyed because they say Palestinian flags were left up for weeks and months, but the English flag gets removed straight away. But look, I'm just doing my job

and I'm not going to let them hinder me from what I'm doing. Doing two-tier justice, but on like tying a flag to a really precarious like pile of street furniture or whatever. Yeah, that's the thing. A lot of the flags that were getting flown were getting flown like from flagpoles, from council buildings. There was a council employee who went to put them up. This is essentially like the wildcat strike version of vexelology. Yeah, I've been displaying my patriotism by diving into traffic and try to attach those like big poppies to the the fronts of cars. And like the non-woke suicide bomber where instead of exploding, I just attach a flag to

something and then die. Like that's the thing. One of these people is definitely going to die from falling off of a scaffolding or something that they have climbed to just like go way. Yeah. But so I will come back tomorrow around 6.30 a.m. to remove the rest when there aren't so many people around who will get upset. Palestinian, Jamaican, English, whatever.

My job is just to keep the road clean. I'm saluting. Yeah, this guy, also, some of the stuff he mentioned as, you know, little bits in his sides, like two-tier justice, wouldn't you know it, talked about in the both the telegraph and the Daily Mail articles as this is just another example of that? I like, I like the idea that, like, it's disrespectful to the flag to, like, throw it into a bin or whatever. So you can, therefore, we have to do kind of like some cloth magic, right?

Where anytime a union flag is like tied to something, everybody has to like stop and salute it and then take it down and like fold it properly, right? And therefore, I kind of like this as an idea because you could get around a lot of stuff in Britain that way. It's like, oh, interesting, you want to you want to arrest me for shoplifting? We'll check this shit out as I deploy my union flag parachutes, right? Or you could have a specifically British version of caltrops that are just like a multi-sided shape that always faces a union flag. flag up. But you know what else this is? Before we end,

you know what else this is? This is American shit. This is just American. Thank you. Yes. No one used to care about this stuff at all. Including people who fancied themselves patriots, right? Like,

that's part of the reason why it was like why the far right was able to kind of corner the movement on the union flag specifically is because like even people who consider themselves patriotic didn't care that much about the flag itself, you know? I think it was only. once the brand of conservatism that was primarily about pissing off as many people as they could possibly communicate with it once, did anyone really start giving a shit about the flag? Because it's an easy post to do, you know? Absolutely. It's visually striking. It's an easy post to do, and you can be like, oh, hey, are you triggered? And then Katie Hopkins will talk about it. And

then there you go. You know, it's, it's low effort. It's low effort shit. Operation raised the colors. I think what you guys should do is you should start getting more daring with it, right? What's the unsteadyest platform you can hang a union flag off? Or like, how secure of a facility can you break into and make more patriotic? Doing the Area 51, they can't stuff all of this thing and just brincing towards the MI6 building. But it's just, it's just, yeah, like 400 guys all with flares in their asses wearing, wearing cross of St. George capes, all like, like, Naruto running over. Trying to climb the gates at Downing Street and just getting moaned down by the Met Police. It's like, it's like World War Z.

You know, and it's like flooding over the wall to try to hang across of St. George outside the like living room window in Downing Street. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like a flat roof pub. All right, all right, all right. Look, I think that's all we have time for for today. Yeah, we have to go and raise the flag over the studio. Yeah, that's right. Well, we have to raise the flag over other podcast studios.

It's like reverse capture the flag. It's plant the flag. It's infiltrate the flag. It's flag Keynesianism is what it is. That's right. But Luke, I want to thank you so much for coming on and continuing our examination of my Urstwhile home and neighbor across the pond, Canada. Canadian developments.

And where can people find a little more of you? They can listen to Michael and us, for example, but there's more Luke Savage to be had. There is indeed more Luke Savage to be had. Most recently, I joined Substack at Luke W. Savage. which is also my Twitter handle. So I will have more on, well, every matter we've discussed, more on the strike,

more on lots of other stuff there, too. Every matter? Every matter. Will you be talking about Operation Raise the colors? Every single matter will be addressed there, as will the, uh, yeah,

burgeoning movement of flag canesianism, which I plan to write on soon. Yeah, perfect. Is falling the furthest anyone has ever fallen, uh, in an attempt to raise a flag as I try to put one on top of the CN tower for some reason. this is for England

No I think the best one of that would be Red Bull sponsors like English Felix Baumgardner to like go up into lower I'm gonna hang a flag off of space The highest of St. George Cross has ever been

Look the earth is just a gigantic flat roof pub if you think about it and we could hang us Cross of St. George off of the whole ozone layer come on to let those aliens know who they're fucking with

this is all England. All right. All right. So yeah, check out Luke's substack. Check out Michael and us. Check out our Patreon. There's going to be another episode in a few short days that will feature another person that at least one person on the show will have recently eaten with. So do check that out. We're going to be talking about cars. And other than that, have a good couple of days. We'll see you soon. Bye everyone. Bye, everyone. Cheers, comrades. I'm going to be able to be able to be.