TRASHFUTURE - UNLOCKED Left on Read - Master and Commander

Episode Date: June 27, 2024

We've unlocked our discussion of Master and Commander to the free tier, and we've unlocked the sequel, Post Captain, to the $5 tier... so check them out, and if you like them, you can check out the next instalment - HMS Surprise - now on the $10 tier! November and Riley read the first in Patrick O'Brian's Aubery-Maturin series, and what follows is just under an hour of November and Riley loudly loving the first novel in Patrick O'Brian's Aubery-Maturin series for its painterly writing, obsession with mundane-seeming detail, and disdain for swashbuckling tales of derring-do... among other things! For the next two episodes... Post Captain: https://www.patreon.com/posts/unlocked-left-on-107016374  HMS Surprise: https://www.patreon.com/posts/left-on-read-hms-107016243 

She in naval chat rooms, posting Captain. ALICE A vast hello and welcome to another episode of Left on Red. It's Nova, it's Riley, and after sort of alluding to this on previous episodes, and having watched the film adaptation on Cale James Bond, we read Master and Commander, the first in the Aubrey Maturin series. And first of all, before we get into anything, the last time I talked about this, I got ratioed in the comments by people going, how the fuck did you pronounce that dude's surname?

And for the record, I'm not insane, there are, like, I've only ever seen it written down, and there are, like, in Spanish it would be maturín, in French it would be maturá, but the author and the BBC adaptations pronounce it maturín, so Aubrey Maturín. Well, I think that makes sense though, right? Because he's Irish Catalan, raised in Ireland, and then sort of somewhat in England. He has the weirdest accent, you know? And what might that sound like? Well, who could...

Hey, you know what you should do if you're listening to this? Try it on your own! Yeah. In public, ideally. If you're like, on the tube or something, listening to this, just break out an Irish accent, break out a Catalan accent, and kind of merge them together until you get a kind of, like, very early 19th century naval surgeon, you know? No, but, also, Nova, you have mispronounced another name, which is not Aubrey, it is Autism.

This is the Autism book. It's true. Autism is a developmental disorder, characterized by knowing a lot about sailing ships, wanting to know more about sailing ships, seeking to explain sailing ships to others. And so, you know, these are books that I really like. I loved the movie as well. And I'm coming back to The Master a long long long time away, which is so... this is my hedge against everything I get wrong, misremember, conflate, invent, is that it's been a long time hence, but we started over from the beginning,

we read the first one in a series of about twenty, because the whole thing is a... it's a Romain Fleuve? Fleve? It's a fucking, it's a long novel, of twenty books, and we read the first one of them. And I am sure as time goes on we will read the rest of them. Yeah, we just like, fuck off everything else and we just do a year of non-stop Aubrey Machirin. More naval stories, except for the ones on land, of which people often forget there are many. Yeah, it's sort of like, this is the thing, if you commit yourself to a sort of long story

of, like, the society of the early 1800s, there's gonna be a lot of it on boats, which is the thing you're most interested in, there's also gonna be a lot of drawing rooms involved. It turns out that often the things that happen in those drawing rooms are of far more political consequence and import than the things with the sails and the cannon and so forth. Well yeah, so this is... I think, let's go back to the beginning, right? Let's just say you are one of the three people listening to this who has has neither seen the movie nor read the books, and doesn't know what we're talking about. Patrick O'Brien is probably, is considered widely to be one of the best

historical novelists, kind of, ever. ALICE Yeah, genuinely. Like, reading his prose is like slipping into a warm bath. It's genuine, because very very few people write like this, and everything has this kind of lyrical quality to it. And there's two things that I really want to draw out about Patrick O'Brien's writing in this. One is the sort of turn of phrase, and the other, it's gonna be difficult for me because I have like 500 notes because I've highlighted every single sentence that appeals to me. RILEY You have highlighted Master and Commander in

its entirety. ALICE Yeah, I'm gonna be expensing like six packs of highlighters, I've used all of them. Yeah. But the other thing is that he picks and chooses his scenes very carefully, and there is nothing in there which he does not want to depict, and does not want to depict with this run of the sort of, like, very lyrical. And so there are quite a few scenes, like, for instance, if you've seen Master and Command of the film, you might remember that, like, a sort of, like, very important, very evocative

piece of that that shows you that Stephen Madren is like a talented surgeon, it's him replacing a guy, like, a part of his fractured skull on deck, with a piece of melted coin. The book does not describe that, it just glosses over and you find out about it with other recountings of it. And the same with other bits of this, if it doesn't interest O'Brien, or if he's not like... if it's not something that he wants in that narrative, he is perfectly happy. Where I think a lot of more modern novelists would be frightened to do this. To be like, this scene happens, we're gonna move past it and you're gonna find out about it later in a way that compels me.

Yeah, and this is one of the things that I think as well changes throughout the 20 book series is that as he goes on, Patrick O'Brien I think quite grudgingly will say, okay, fine, I'll depict the thing that you care about. Yeah, but I want to get back to my battles. I want to get back to my battles, or I even want to get back to my painstaking description of the second watch engaging in practice to get its cannon firing quicker. My favourite bit, and I've mentioned this before in this book, is Aubrey, who is in charge of, newly in command of this sloop, the Sophie. RIght, is it a sloop, or is it a brig with a quarter-ding rigged like a sloop?

ALICE For four more reasons it is a sloop. But he's sort of like, he's husbanding this allowance of gunpowder that he has in the hold, in the magazine, very very carefully, and he's like, well I've been issued this much and no more, but we should, at the very least, fire off a couple of cannon to get them used to it. And then in the very deepest recesses of his soul there's a little voice that's like, think of how good it's gonna smell. And it's just, that's such a perfect piece of characterization of Aubrey as a commander, it's like, somewhere deep within him is the kind of like, yeah, the gunfire, it smells really fucking

good. And so, it's a Master and Commander, is very little actually, like the movie of the same name. Yes. The book is an amalgamation of some vignettes from this book, then the ship from HMS Surprise, and then the kind of overall action of the far side of the world. It's kind of an amalgam of the three books. And also, the story that O'Brien's interested in telling really is almost sort of Robert Altman-esque in its, I'd say, in its lack of a kind of central structuring plot driven... if you get my meaning, right?

Yeah, it's a bit like a Bildungsroman, right? Because you start with Jack Aubrey, Lucky Jack, who, you know, our hero, Russell Crowe. Yeah, exactly. As, you know, he's trying to be promoted, trying to make his career, but it's not just about that. And also, just very quickly, because I was mentioning the lyricism the whole time I was talking about that, I was procrastinating, because I was looking for one specific phrase which to me exemplifies like the whole quality of the writing. If you like it, you're gonna love this book, if you don't like it then you know, you may find it difficult. It's a perfectly, like, workman-like sentence structurally, and what it's conveying is, you know, it gets you from one place to the other, but it's written like this. The Sophie came round fast and brought the wind onto her beam, healing over so that the

silk-black water lapped at her port-sills, she raced towards the nearest gunboat." It's just, it's so evocative. Like, silk black water is just like, it's... mwah. And it's all like this, there is not a single wasted sentence for the opportunity to like, deploy something like that. Yeah, well it's the, um, I'd say it's one of the things Patrick O'Brien does so well is he spends this entire book trying to give you the reader a sense of what it would be like. Because there is for whatever, for whatever reason, you know, we can talk about the reasons. In fact, it gives you

this wonderful sense of what it's like to be on a brig rig like a sloop of the quarter-tech in The at the very end of the 18th century and then for the decades following And I think one of the ways in which he does that one of the reasons hit the style of the writing is so important as you say like about you know, the the the the see the the description of the speed and feel of the vessel is Because that is ultimately what he's trying to do. He's trying to... You know how a chase scene is good if it gives you, in a movie, if it gives you the sense

of speed, right? Yes. O'Brien is doing that with quite evocative language because if water in the Mediterranean, because this is all set in the Mediterranean, As Lucky Jack and his men go cruising mostly, you can imagine, I think, the silk dark waters as being going past you so quickly that they look much smoother than they are. This is not the sea described from some third person point of view, but he drops you into the ship. And it lets it sort of whir around you.

And I mean, one of the thrills I get from reading it even, is the feeling of progression as Jack takes over this ship that is not in a terrific state. Yeah, it is his first command. And this is the thing, he is sort of like, at the start of his career, he's been a lieutenant, he is finally made Master and Commander of this sort of unimpressive, small, slow, fat ship, with a kind of dodgy crew, most of the best of whom have been abstracted by its last commander, because his commanding officer, Captain Hart, doesn't like him for reasons that we all get into. Because he's fucking his wife.

He's fucking the shit out of this guy's wife. And so every time Captain Hart sees him he's like, that's the guy who's cucking me. And you know, does not take it well. Crazy. Yes. But so, Jack's career, and what it means to be an officer of the Royal Navy in this period, this is something that really interests me in this book. His career progression is a sort of natural framework for the whole series, and you kind of... you feel it along

with him, but I think most especially here at this, like, most junior level, because the structure of the Royal Navy at this time is such that, like, you get your command, you're made Mastering Commander, you're called Captain as a courtesy, but it's not until you get an epaulette, which he gets drunk and then buys a sort of massive, mostly brass, sort of false-bullying epaulette. But it's not until you're made post-captain, which is the second novel in the series, that you are sort of captained by right, rather than by courtesy, and after that you promote by seniority.

And after that, eventually, if you live long enough, you will be an admiral. Because it works purely on, like, the navy is at this point in time very very bad at getting rid of officers off their books, and so you're still promoting, you're still sort of like having time in service, but the time that you become post-captain, that sets your seniority forever, and so his obsession, as soon as he gets this command, which is already kind of late, it's already kind of overdue because of his habit of things like fucking his commanding officer's wives, from that moment he is like, how can I make this next jump to post-captain as quickly

as possible to establish that seniority? And it grieves him every time someone else is promoted, because he is going to be junior to them forever. RILEY No matter what. No matter what he does. ALICE Yes. Absolutely. There is no meritocracy, or no pretense of meritocracy about it. I want to talk about junior officering, and I want to talk about command, because I think

this is one of the best books written about command, and about being a naval officer, specifically, but like any kind of officer, manager even. Like, don't read The Art of War if you're a business guy, read this book. Yes, yeah, because it won't necessarily give you advice beyond be daring and try stupid things and nine times out of ten you'll lose, but try anyway. It's more about the kind of emotional resonances of it, and some of these are things that are now kind of cliché, like the absolute profound loneliness, and some of them are, you know, I think much more meaningful, much more sort of novel, if you like.

But I do want to start with the loneliness, right? Because he exists in this position, like, he commands from the quarter deck, which is, you know, the sort of raised deck on the aft end of the ship, towards the stern, and this is sacred ground, right? And we see a few times when he is thinking that, like, he has this privilege of not being interrupted on it, unless it is, like, urgent, unless someone has, like, you don't... he has this privilege of not being interrupted on it unless it is urgent, unless someone has real business with him. He exists in this kind of boxed-off area, giving commands. When he tries to relax, I mean, he gets hosted by the wardroom with the junior officers and the midshipmen and the warrant officers. And there's a really interesting description of how, since he's there, they are obliged

to be deferential to him, and laugh at his jokes and all of this, and the atmosphere that it fosters is one where he knows that he's intruding, they know that he's intruding, and it just kind of makes it worse, you know? At every step, if Jack tries to... and I think it's also worth talking about the character, characterisation of Jack, not just as a good commander, but as a deeply flawed one. Which by the way, the movie does not do at all. No. No. And nor the sort of job itself.

And the bit that I really want to highlight is another one of my favourite bits in the bit that I really wanna highlight is another one of my favourite bits in the novel. I'll just read this quote. So Jack is doing paperwork. Which he fucking hates. Yes. There is so much of it, and it is all sort of like somebody quietly embezzling from somebody else, and he has to make people aware that he knows that they're embezzling.

But he says, there's the service for you, from clue to earring. The Royal Navy, stock and fluke. You get into a fine flow of patriotic fervour. there in Besling, but he says, there's the service for you from clue to earring, the Royal Navy stock and fluke. You get into a fine flow of patriotic fervour, you are ready to plunge into the thick of battle, and you are asked to sign this sort of thing. He passed Stephen the carefully written sheet. His Majesty's sloop, Sophie at sea, my lord, I am to beg you will be pleased to order a court-martial to be held on Isaac Wilson, seaman, blowing to the sloop I have the honor to command for having committed the unnatural crime of sodomy on a goat." And it's just, it's such a perfectly observed thing, you know, from the sublime to the ridiculous,

it is pathetic in the tragic, in the like, you know, dramatic sense, right? This is, at every state, whether it is the entire sweep of the novel, or individual engagements with different ships, Patrick O'Brien never allows anybody to get too enthusiastic about the service. Yeah, this is the thing, like, the sort of Hornblower novels are like, you know, swashing, buckling, all of this, and very seldom interrupted by, yeah, we have caught one of the racings fucking a goat in the goat house that we keep, for goat's milk. Um.

Or even, like, the sweep of the story of Master and Commander, is that Jack is, for all of his faults, of which there are many, you know, he is short-sighted, impetuous, he's much more sort of, I think, personally greedy, and less like a sort of philosopher warrior than he is in the movie. ALICE He's sort of, in many ways, reminds me of, I think he's like the way that Boris Johnson imagines himself. Because one of the things about him is he is endlessly, endlessly offensive. He says the most terrible things.

To some ladies, who overhear him saying, they'll be rampaging after having taken some prizes and gotten lots of money. Like, oh, they'll be rampaging around town with their pricks a yard long, then turns to some shoplifters and says- Way too loud. And then says, don't worry, they'll probably get here last. Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, the same thing with everyone, and he sort of, I'm trying to find the... Dylan was Irish, though you would never have thought so. Never to be seen drunk,

almost never called anyone out, spoke like a Christian, the most gentleman-like creature in the world, nothing of the hector at all. Oh Christ, my dear fellow, my dear Meturin, who is also Irish, I do beg your pardon, I say these damned things, I regret it extremely, I say these damned things, Jack went on, musing as they drank their bottle, and I don't quite understand at the time, and though I see people looking black as hell and frowning and my friends going psst psst, and then I say to myself, you're brought by the Lee again, Jack. Usually I make out what's amiss, given time, but by then it's too late. And the thing is, you kind of, you want to forgive him it, because there is, as Stephen deduces of him, there is no malice

in him, he is a perfect idiot. And he is just kind of cursed with this thing of saying the most offensive thing to anyone at any given moment, especially when it's most crucial, and then, like, legitimately not occurring to him that he has offended them. This is the guy who, like, I would let Jack Aubrey misgender me, is the thing. He would do this several hundred thousand times a day. Um. Yeah, but he would do it in, I guess, like, a fun way, and be really sorry when he realized that he'd done it. Yeah, exactly. And offer you, like, a bottle of Madeira or something, by way of

apology. And like, this is the thing, this is this kind of like, untouchability that like, people like Boris Johnson wish they had, think they have, and, y'know, because Jack Aubrey is a fictional creation, he can do this, and he can get away with this time after time, is to be like, well, y'know, he was Irish, but I never would've guessed, because he barely had any lucky charms on him, and he's just like, what? And by the time you catch up with him, and what he's said, you're like, he's already sort of like, red in the face and apologising. Yeah. All he really wants, he's just sort of idly mus- this goes back to, again, like, Jack

Aubrey is, as you get through Learn Through the Book, a supremely able captain, and a supremely unable interactor of with people. ALICE Yes. And there is a thing as well, that specifically in combat he changes. You know, Stephen says that he appears taller when he's sort of bearing down on the enemy. He gets this kind of dangerous look in his eye. And yeah, absolutely, this is like really compelling to me, you know? This is, I mean, I don't just want this to be the Patrick O'Brien fan hour, although

it is, because it's a great book. It kind of is. It sort of is, which is fine. I don't really have a bad thing to say about this novel, at least. Some of the others, you know, go, no, but like, this one? No, I think it's, I wouldn't change a word, you know? But this is because, I think, the way to understand Master and Commander, and the entire Aubrey Maturin series, is obviously not just Aubrey, but also Maturin.

Because where Aubrey is unable to interact with the world on land, Maturin, anytime he attempts to do anything other than sit in the hold of a boat, will like, walk off the side of it. ALICE Yes, yeah. He is a landsman, just by nature. Here is the bit about Jack in combat. Jack nodded, looking up and down at his two broadsides. He was a big man at any time, but now he seemed to be at least twice his usual size.

His eyes were shining in an extraordinary manner, as blue as the sea, and a continuous smile showed a gleam across the lively scarlet of his face. Well, Mr. Dillon, he cried, this is a bit of luck, is it not? Stephen, looking at them curiously, saw that the same extraordinary animation had seized upon James Dillon. Indeed, the whole crew was filled with strange ebullience. Close by him, the Marines were checking the flints of their muskets, and one of them was polishing the buckle of his crossbelt, breathing on it and laughing happily between the carefully directed breaths. Yes sir, said James Dillon, it could not have fallen more happily.

This is there about to like, go in and sort of in and receive broadsides from something, y'know? They fucking love it. They love this shit, yeah. But it's also, again, I think the difference between this and sort of more swashbuckling novel is that they love it, but that's not necessarily a good thing. ALICE Well, I mean, Maturin even actually says, well, to himself in his diary, they are strangely immature for men of their age and their position, though indeed it is to be supposed that if they were not, they would not be here. The mature, the ponderant mind does not embark itself upon a man of war, is not to be found

wandering about the face of the ocean in quest of violence." Which is a much more cogent sort of explanation of that than is in the film, I would say. The film gestures at this a few times, but... The film gestures at it, but also it's the... because the film does not show Jack as a flawed character, basically. Yes. Because the film does not show Jack as a flawed character, basically. The film shows Jack as an infinitely patient, infinitely insightful, and weirdly, extremely socially adept.

You're put in mind of the scene where they're at the dinner table and Jack diffuses a festering argument between Steven, who is about to make this point basically to the table table and Jack defuses a kind of festering argument between Stephen, who is about to make this point basically to the table and everyone else by sort of telling a joke about weevils, right? Well, at the same time signaling to Maturin, this is not Jack Aubrey of the books. This is basically the Jack Aubrey of the movie combines the best elements of Aubrey and Maturin of the books, and in fact becomes a less compelling character. ALICE This is the thing, that specific role of kind

of diffusing tensions is specifically highlighted as like a skill of warrant officers. Like the Purser, right? It's like having the ability to make conversation, because they have spent their entire careers in very very close quarters with a lot of armed and dangerous men, they have this ability that the officers kind of sometimes don't, of by necessity smoothing things over, of not saying the thing that they want to say which is offensive. And in particular, for captains, you see this again with the sanctity of the quarterdeck, and the refusal to ever impose on them, is this is both shown with other captains and described in Aubrey's inner monologue as something

that he is trying to guard against, is it can make you sort of pompous and unthinking. And Aubrey is in some ways lucky that his unthinking is only limited to bellowing something sexually offensive, like women of society, rather than something that gets him and his entire ship sunk. But I found the quote about Stephen falling into the sea as a landsman. So this is when they are engaging in a ruse to dress one of their junior officers up as a Danish officer to pretend to be a Danish ship to come in close to another ship to inspect the prisoners on it, to inspect people on it for some Irish Republican dissidents, basically. Also, when we bring in the character of James Dillon, who I think serves as well the crucial bridge between Aubrey and the men, who's the Sophie's lieutenant. We'll talk about Dillon, we'll talk about Ireland and the fullness of time.

Stephen is getting off of the ship onto a cutter, and Jack is talking to him. He says, oh yes, this is a perfectly legitimate ruse de guerre. Often we amuse the enemy with false signals too. Anything but those of distress. Take great care of the paint now. At this point, Stephen fell straight into the sea. Into the hollow of the sea, between the boat and the side of the sloop as they drew away from one another.

He sank at once, rose as they came together, struck his head between the two and sank again bubbling. Most of the Sophie's people who could swim leapt into the water, Jack among them, and others ran with boat hooks, a dolphin striker, two small grapnoles, an ugly barbed hook on the chain, but it was the brother's sponge, so two Greek sponge fishermen, that found him,

five fathoms down and brought him up, his clothes blacker than usual, his face more white, and he was streaming with water furiously indignant. It was no epoch-making event, but it was a useful one since it provided the gun room, the gun room being where the middle sort of midshipmen and junior officers would make their mess, with a topic of conversation at a moment when very hard work was needed to maintain the appearance of a civilised community. So this is, but this is, but at the same time, right? Steven is the one who on land is the only one who says to Jack, please stop fucking the captain's wife, the admiral's wife.

He's crucially, because they're based in Menorca, in Port Mahon. He's the only one who speaks either Catalan, French, or Spanish. Jack has no facility for foreign language. He says, you know, he speaks French but it don't answer. And so he's much more socially adept in that way. We should talk about Stephen Macharin, because the way that they meet... It's perfect for both their characters.

Yeah, this is the thing. I think, you know, the MCU stuff like this have ruined us on, like, origin stories, but this is a perfect little introduction to two characters, which is, they share a passion for music. Something which the movie does get. So Jack is ashore, watching this, he's taking a concert, at which the woman he is fucking, his commander's wife, is playing the harp, by the way, and he's like, clapping along on his thigh, and this sort of large, large man, both... I am gratified, by the way, which Jack is,

all the time, he's depicted as fat. He's like muscular and fat at the same time. He's beefy. Yeah, but, I mean, there's a bit in there which I also have highlighted, whereas what Jack said looking out from his plate, he had eaten two to three pounds of mutton. Um. Again, makes me feel strangely patriotic. But, yeah. And this guy sitting next to him gives him a very rude look, and says, if you really must beat the measure, sir, in a whisper, let me entreat you to do so in time, and not half a beat ahead.

I love that movie whiplash. Yeah, exactly. And like, so he sits back in his chair, which he's described as, like, enveloping his chair, which I like a lot, and he's still kind of, he can't quite repress it, he's like, tapping his foot, and Maturin elbows him in the ribs and shushes him. And this like, very nearly leads to a duel. He takes his name for this, and then by the time that he goes to meet him, he has been promoted and he is thoroughly drunk.

He's forgotten- He's too good of a mood to have a duel. Yeah, he's forgotten entirely about it. And they just end up bonding. I don't think that, um, there's this, I hate to talk about news in Left Unread, right, but there is a, there is a, at the time of recording, there is this plan being bandied about to have some kind of, like, counter Andrew Tate government trained influencer program. And I think they could just replace that with this book.

ALICE Honestly though. I mean, for instance, we see that... so he comes back to his inn, his lodging, quite dejected, and we see the reason that he's dejected is he won't even try it on with the maid anymore. This is a line, he did not respond with anything more than a mechanical jocosity and a vague dart at her bosom. What, just so sad, he's just... He's just, like, lightly trying to, like, grope this woman, who, by the way, to be fair,

is, like, coming onto him, but, like, he's, y'know, just kind of not interested. And then he gets this letter, and honestly, like, if the book hadn't already won me over so many times, this would be the place where it won me over. I think this is, for my money, the best depiction of receiving, like, life-changingly good news. If this is something that you have been fortunate enough to have happen to you, you will recognize it. Where he gets this letter, naming him Master and Commander of the Sophie, and he sort of

like, he reads it, and then he reads it again, reads it a third time, throws it away, walks around, picks it up, reads it again, and the kind of strange delirium, has far too many drinks, panics, thinks he's misread it, reads it again. It's just like, it's really really good. And then, of course, I have a quote, the first thing he did, in point of fact, was to cross the road to the naval outfitters and pledge his now elastic credit to the extent of a noble, heavy, massive epaulette, the mark of his present rank. And then he goes out and sort of stumbles across Stephen.

I'm also actually of the same note. It says, as the door closed behind him, Jack saw the man in the black coat on the other side of the road near the coffee house. The evening flooded back into his mind as he hurried across, calling out, Mr. Matron, why there you are, sir. I owe you a thousand apologies. I must have been a sad bore to you last night and I hope you will forgive me. We sailors hear so little music and are so little used to genteel company that we grow carried away.

I beg your pardon." Maturin says, well, why don't we have a cup of coffee? To which Aubrey replies, "...you're very good sir, I should like it of all things. To tell the truth, I was in such a hurry of spirits I forgot my breakfast. I've just been promoted." Yeah, and so they breakfast together and they find that they get along very well. And Maturin is, he sort of is forced to admit this with some reluctance, a basically indigent

doctor. Like, extraordinarily well-educated. A very, very capable doctor. Not just a well-educated in the sort of, as a surgeon, but a sort of, a man of science, the kind that we don't generate anymore. ALICE Yeah, he's a physician, he's a natural philosopher, and he's been left kind of in the lurch because he's been escorting a wealthy patient to Menorca, the patient has died and left him with no money.

So Jack kind of finds this out, and says, there was a pause, Jack filled their glasses and observed, had I known you as a surgeon, sir, I do not think I could have resisted the temptation of pressing you. Surgeons are excellent fellows, said Stephen Maturin, with a touch of acerbity, and where should we be without them, God forbid, and indeed the skill and dispatch and dexterity with which Mr. Flory at the hospital here- MR. Flory at the hospital here averted Mr. Brown's epiterial bronchus would have amazed and delighted you, but I have not the honour of counting myself among them, sir. I am a physician."

LH- The Mr. was not lost on me. AL- Yes, yeah. Stephen is quite a bit of a snob, and I think this is the thing, right, the enduring fantasy of these books for an audience of nerds, right, is, what if you had a big, bluff, stupid, dangerous, fun, caring friend who, sort of like, was willing to, like, induct you into this life of adventure, in which what remains for you is to be very clever, and not have to, like, adapt yourself to it, but in a way that kind of allows you to be a kind of, like, useful expository for the reader. We go back to the passage towards the end of the book, where Stephen just fully falls into the sea.

He's not met with fun! They're very concerned with Stephen, partly because it's like, to have a surgeon on board at just a normal sort of sloop like this is quite something. Yeah, he hacks off limbs, you knowknow, but like, to have a doctor, specifically. There's one bit that I really really like, I don't remember if it's in this one, or the next one, post-captain, but one of the things that Stephen does after they get their first big prizes, and they become a bit wealthier, is he buys in huge huge amounts of, like, spices, and things like this to mix into his drafts of medication.

Because sailors, and he sort of like intuits this, like to know with their whole body that they are being physicked, you know? The thing has to taste terrible, and like, sort of grip you around the throat, because you know that that's making you better. So he's putting these things in, quite unnecessarily, and that's, I think, one of the really perceptive things about Stephen Maturin. M- This comes back to, without Stephen Maturin, this wouldn't be much of a book at all, because

there needs to be someone who is looking at the sort of faint ridiculousness of Aubrey and the sailors. And I think then, let's, I think this is actually a good time to move on to probably the least ridiculous and most relatable of the Seamen, who is James Dillon. Yes, Lieutenant James Dillon, man going through it. So we... So we're almost saved from awkwardness by being killed in action aboard the caca fuego. Yeah, because this is the thing, right? Because it mixes the sublime and the ridiculous, there is a lot of ridiculousness, and I think

it would potentially slip into it. You would have the like, you know, fucking goats, things of this nature. And then, running into it is, oh, we have your new, sort of, like, executive officer, your new second in command. What's his name? James Dylan. Immediately Stephen Maturin, like, all the blood drains out of his face. And y'know, Dylan coming aboard, recognising him just the same. And throughout the rest of the novel Dylan is sort of tormented, and the thing that torments

these two men, the thing that unites them and divides them is Ireland, is being Irish. Because both are survivors of the United Irishmen, the Society of United Irishmen, and the sort of rebellion against British authority in Ireland. And this comes out very slowly, and they are very careful about this, and I think one of the things that I like about this is the unspoken delicacy of these conversations, because you're told a few times exactly how small a sloop is, or a brig for that matter, and how there is basically no such thing as a private conversation, and so there are a few times when these men find themselves alone together, and when they finally do and when they can actually sit down and have

a drink together, then they talk about this. And so, Dylan is from a much more privileged background, and he kind of denies it. He says, sort of, I'm not from much, it's four fifths of bog and one fifth mountain. And Stephen just quite coolly says, I have ridden across your land. Well, this is one of the reasons why, because Aubrey and Maturin are both in their own way enthusiastic characters. They are, Aubrey is enthusiastic for, you know, king and country and battle and all this. And Maturin is enthusiastic for learning and sort of fineness and sort of advancement, if not socially, then he is, when he sort of meets

in a- when they're taking prisoner aboard a French ship briefly, you know, he's all too excited to talk to their, their commanding officer about his theories of animal life and so on and so on. The doctor, yeah. James Dillon. James Dillon is the only unenthusiastic character, I think, only unenthusiastic main character in the entire book. And again, serves as an important audience substitute.

ALICE Yeah. Well, he was a revolutionary, but like, a curiously aristocratic liberal one. What he wanted, what he was in the United Irishman for, was an Irish parliament under the British Crown. Whereas Stephen, you get the sense, was a lot more radical. and because the United Irishmen and Ireland generally were continually infiltrated and sabotaged and suborned by, suborned isn't the word I mean, but run through with British informers, he sort of, out of loyalty, despite having been quite disillusioned, he has to like, go to Fitzgerald and sort of like, to say, call off the rebellion. You know, you would discover this is gonna end horribly.

And he says, um, that afternoon I spent more spirit than ever I spent in my life. Even then I no longer cared for any cause or any theory of government on Earth. I would not have lifted a finger for any nation's independence, fancied or real. And yet I had to reason with as much ardour as though I were filled with the same enthusiasm as in the first days of the revolution when we were all overflowing with virtue and love. Because I had to convince him that his plans were disastrously foolish, that they were known to the castle, and that he was surrounded by traitors and informers. And so Dylan, who is kind of like horrified and also disillusioned in his own way, but in a sort of much more forceful way, says, and would you not lift a finger even for the moderate aims? And this is the bit where we get

like unvarnished like right to the core of Maturon. I would not. With the revolution in France gone to pure loss I was already chilled beyond expression. And now with what I saw in 98 on both sides, the wicked folly and the wicked brute cruelty, I have had such a sickening of men and masses and of causes that I would not cross this room to reform parliament or to prevent the union or to bring about the millennium. I speak only for myself, it is my own truth alone, that man as part of a movement or a crowd is indifferent to me. He is inhuman, and I have nothing to do with nations or nationalism. The only feelings I have for what they are, are for men as individuals. my loyalties, such as they may be, are to private persons alone."

Which is just an incredible, like, show-stopping piece of characterisation to be like, this, you know, sort of, man of the Enlightenment has been so, so sort of like, quietly disillusioned that he is apolitical now. The hard way is, I mean, the way he describes the rising, right, the rising of the United Irishmen is, Dylan asks him, not having known, having come to it slightly later, was it terrible? Terrible. I cannot by any possible energy of words express to you the blundering, the delay, the murderous confusion and the stupidity of it all. It accomplished nothing. It delayed independence for a hundred years. It sowed hatred and violence. It spawned out a vile race of informers and things like Major Sir.

And, incidentally, it made us the prey of any chance blackmailing informer. And so this is just what happens. Dylan, sort of having had this conversation, having ended up worse, is then haunted by, you know, this attempt at rebellion. And when the Sophie is ordered to find these two, you know, disguised rebel leaders on a ship, he finds them and is blackmailed by them, one of them, who is a priest. RILEY Yeah. We don't miss, of course, that the blackmailer is a priest.

ALICE Yeah, a Jesuit priest. Like threatens to expose him as having been a rebel himself, unless he lets them go. And he gets off the ship, and sort of like, the implication is that, y'know, he was going to let them go anyway, but having betrayed his oath, not by his choice, has kind of ruined him. And as such, there's a kind of moral hazard, a moral compromise here, and so for the rest of his life in the book, he is just, like, off, you know? And this is something that Maturin is able to perceive, and Jack is only able to perceive the outlines of. Yes, yeah, because he doesn't know.

Hey, something's weird with Dylan, anyway, time to go back to my bloviating. Something's weird with this Irish guy, he didn't laugh at any of my Pope jokes. I mean, the other thing is, we see in Steven's diary that he writes that he has this kind of theory of mind, or theory of age rather, that like, at a certain point you kind of... some trauma happens to you that like robs you of, you know, your enjoyment of life, and it fixes you into becoming a character in the way that the senior officers we've seen are. You become kind of more two-dimensional because you don't have that fullness of experience anymore because it has been very harshly limited by prior experience, and it's heavily implied

that for Stephen this is the rising, right? But he sees this happen to Dylan, and crucially, he worries about this happening to Jack. Because it hasn't yet. He's still ebullient, he's still fulsome, he's still capable of changing his nature in some ways. And that becoming fixed, and that becoming sort of bitter and rigid is something that I think really pursues Maturon, you know? Riegel This is why the most interesting and most sort of like a normal book, if you like, part of Master and Commander is the saga of James

Dillon and his relationship with the service. I mean, again, just to take a longer step back, it's not lost on you that this guy who was in the United Irishmen, in fact both of these guys who were sort of associated with the United Irishmen are now in the English Navy. ALICE Yeah, I mean, the first hint that you get of this, by the way, is Stephen is up one of the masts being shown for the reader, and also for himself, like what the different parts of the ship are. And he has, like, a masthead explained to him, he thinks very quietly to himself, castle ray hanging at the one masthead and Fitzgibbon at the other, thought Stephen, but with only

the weariest gleam of spirit, which are opposing sides of the rebellion, so he's just like, you know, fucking hang all of them. Yeah. And this, but I think one of the other, one of the other things that is the theme that comes up again and again is that the Navy is kind of a place where you sort of wash up. You know, if you, if you've lost, if you have lost everything else on, on land, then the best place for you is just to kind of land in the Navy. And this is both high and low, right? This is Aubrey, who was completely and utterly fucking useless on land, then the best place for you is just to kind of land in the Navy. And this is both high and low, right? This is Aubrey, who was completely and utterly fucking useless on land.

But this is also Maturin, who is a penniless physician. This is also Dylan, a sort of rebel without a cause, so to speak. But additionally, this is even some of the sort of normal ratings, right? These are also people who do not have a place in the rest of the, sort of, normal ratings, right? These are also people who do not have a place in the rest of the world. With them because they've been pressed, or whether they're from quotas, or they've just picked them up off other ships. Or they were this fellow, Cheslin. Cheslin, who he let slip that his old job back on land was to be a sin eater.

Yes. Someone whose job basically is, if someone- it says, when a man died, Cheslin would be sent for, there would be a piece of bread on the dead man's breast and he would eat it, taking the sins upon himself. Then they would put a silver piece into his hand and throw him out of the house, spitting on him and throwing stones as he ran away. ALICE Yeah, and sort of like, of course the crew... What's the word? SEAN They call him a Jonah.

ALICE Yeah, the crew ostracise him, to the point that he can't eat in the mess with them, and so he is starving to death, for want of food. And it's Stephen who notices this and pieces this together, and the way in which he sort of saves his life, because this offends him as a liberal, is to reconstruct his identity, but he makes him his mate, the surgeon's mate, effectively. RILEY His loblolly ball. ALICE Yeah. Go wash all the blood off the floor. And this kind of works, you know, he like takes him under his protection, because they're

so fond of Stephen. It sort of, you know, it saves his life. Incidentally, by the way, when I mentioned the Pope jokes, I was not exaggerating, I have a quote here, this is Jack speaking, of course, I said, more of these damned Irish papists, at this rate half the starboard watch will be made up of them and we shall not be able to get by for beads. Meaning it pleasantly, you know. But then I noticed a damned frigid kind of a chill, and I said to myself, why Jack, you damned fool, Dylan is from Ireland and he takes it as a national reflection. Whereas I had not meant anything so illiberal as a national reflection, of course, only that I hated papists. So I tried to put it right with a few well-turned

flings against the Pope." LH- What I have is, when he's brought everyone back round again, and they are... when they've sort of sunk a privateer off of North Africa, Jack says, this is one of the more famous lines of the book, "'Come!' cried Jack, with a sudden inspiration, "'Let us drink to the renewed success of Irish arms and confusion to the Pope.'" LLMFAO. Yeah. Perfect incoherence.

Because it doesn't matter to him. The fact that, you know, he is a Tory by, like, politics and patronage and a little bit by instinct, but for the most part, in the same way as, like, Sherlock Holmes not knowing whether or not the Earth revolves around the sun, he doesn't need to know anything about Ireland, because it doesn't have much bearing to him, and every time that it does he is like, saved from it by Steven. You know, this is one of his flaws as a commander, but he has like, helpfully augmented it by becoming besties with a guy who has enough, like, knowledge to stop him singing offensive

songs in front of his crew. So, just seeing that we're sort of coming round to the end. We've talked not at all about any of the naval aspect, the actual strategic aspect, but it doesn't matter, is the thing. Just read the book, it's really fucking good. Yeah, this is like one of, I've given a few strong read the book conclusions when we've had some of these episodes. This is probably the strongest read the book I'm going to give.

Yes. Read the book. Read the book. Read it as a character study, read it as a study of command, specifically, and of duty. I do note the line, his duty was clear enough, the unwelcome choice as usual. And when Stephen sort of confronts him about a choice he's made in the course of this, he says, upon your own head be it then, and he says, certainly. And that kind of resignation and loneliness and determination is very very compelling to me.

And I think also read it just to get a sense of, just to get a sense of, I think, almost the social history of the Navy. I mean, one of the reasons I really like the way that Patrick Wyman, friend of the show, tells history is that he uses characters and stories to give, not because there might have been a herdsman in Mohenjo-daro who walked a certain path a certain way and saw a certain thing, but because it allows you to empathize with him. Yes, absolutely. Because it allows you to empathize with it. Yes, absolutely. If you can know, if you can have confidence that the history is right, then the artistic liberties taken by the author, I mean, many of the naval engagements that Aubrey commands

are based on real naval engagements that have happened. Yeah, HMS Speedy and Cochrane. Yeah, the HMS Goodship. Yeah, but this is the thing. Like, something occurs to me which I saw said of the book now series Shogun. Which we should really do. We should do some of the James Clavel like white boy fantasies. I loved those when I was young.

I thought I could become Japanese. We'll get into that, that's its own episode. But somebody said, the thing about this, you know this HBO series Shogun, it's got great world building. Which is funny, because it's Japan, right? What you're doing there is not world building, that is research. But in the same way that, like, if you had fictionalised this, like, this would be fantastic world building. What this is is world understanding.

And it's deployed very very effectively, both in the James Clavell, white boy fantasies, but also here. And I heartily, heartily endorse this. RILEY White Boy arrives in Japan and orders a samurai charge in perfect Japanese, shocks Damio! ALICE Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, white boy shocks brig-rigged sloop, by ordering broadside in perfect anti-Catholic bigotry. SEAN Alright, alright, this has been your $10 left on Red, we hope you enjoyed it everybody.

And we will see you on the other side! ALICE Yeah. Bye everyone. SEAN Bye everyone!