Triforce! - Triforce! #107: Cheese for Everyone

Episode Date: October 30, 2019

Triforce! Episode 107! Lewis had some fun at PDXCon and didn't eat cheese. This confuses Pyrion, obviously. Support your favourite podcast on Patreon: https://bit.ly/2SMnzk6 Music courtesy of Epidemic Sound. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Hello, everybody. Welcome back to the Triforce podcast. This one actually was going out on the 30th of October, so it will be halloween hallows still a day away we've also done a yog pod meantime did a halloween yog pod so the rival podcast you know we'll see which one gets the most downloads shall we whose side are you on i'm on my own side because i'm in both so right uh listen up so before we start recording sips was like lewis I'm coming to Bristol to see Ghostface Killer. Yeah. And I was like, all right, cool. This happened, yeah.

And you were like, I bought four tickets in case they ran out. And I was like, okay. And then you said, I've got two tickets left. And I was like, oh, who else is going? And you said, you are. I thought you said you were up for going. I was like, you don't have to. You don't have to go if you don, you are. I thought you said you were up for going. I was like, oh. You don't have to.

You don't have to go if you don't want to. OK. It'll be really fun, though. Trust me. It'll be really good. No, I'm up. I'm down. I'm up and down.

He's a legend. He's a classic. It's his official UK tour as well. You want to see all the venues he's going to be playing at on his official UK tour no but i i will listen to you tell bristol and london that's it two two shows yeah i heard t pain had to cancel his tour because lack of ticket sales so i'm glad we're supporting these um late 90s um r&b hip-hop acts what is he classic what's he defined as what's the genre he's like i'd say he's probably like uh he's got to be well part of the wu-tang they've got to be kind of like founding fathers of that that golden era hip-hop leading into what's now modern i think that i think the

zoomers shun them now but i think for a while there they were like considered you know the best but now the zoomers are they the millennial after post yeah they all got they they record their their beats and they mumble rap on their devices and stuff like that nowadays but uh right but back then back then you had to have some uh substance about you you know you were you came from uh some hard times and you had some shit to yeah to to rhyme about and yeah it was all grimy and dirty it was very grimy yeah but now it's uh like dog face emojis style is still very much like that you know there's still a very like 90s vibe to his his music so it's interesting to me because this is a new branch of a new music genre. Rap didn't exist really in the... I mean,

it barely existed in the 80s. It was kind of like a hip, a hap, a hippie, hippie, hip, hap, hoop, hip, hap. That was the extent of rap. They rhymed road with toad and chode and stuff. It was like the Will's Fresh Prince era. No, no. That was when it was actually, the 90s was like hip hop and rap music and gangster rap and everything really came out. But it was around in the 80s. Like Jam Master Jay. Jam Master Jay, yeah.

He's, you know, actually, I think he was... But now those guys are old enough that they can do like greatest hits tours and creaky old man on tour in his 50s still rapping. It's like, this is like when rock music and heavy metal now goes through that kind of because i watched that documentary about rush um which i really recommend if you've ever heard of the band rush uh which you should have they're yes hugely successful band that never got big hip like iron maiden never got the popular acceptance

because they were seen as too cheesy or too silly and a lot of music journalists turned their nose up at them. But Rush owns and Iron Maiden own and they're great and they still tour and these guys are old as fuck. And I think it's interesting that these rappers are not doing the same thing because they're old as fuck by comparison to, they're not some 19 year old with the number 69 tattooed on his face. You know, these guys are from a different generation and they're still going. old is that crowd gonna look at look at the rolling stones i mean jesus if you can stand to so a bunch of reasons they're obviously massively arthritic and

wrinkled up and weird they're like rubber they're like rubber puppets um i mean they look like something kept spitting image but but they were like, they're still, if you're a rapper and you start getting old, can you still rap or do you start doing the mumble rap? Is that where it's come from? I think you spend, you develop like your style or whatever, and then it evolves somewhat, but it still has like a foundation sort of thing.

So like a lot of like rappers that you hear from the 90s they still sound very much the same although their voices are like a little bit deeper because they've gotten older or whatever you know their bodies are starting to portray them and stuff like that but um i mean like uh like all the woo guys are like almost 50 yeah are they as good as ever i'm just wondering like yeah they're still as good but i mean does seem to because age doesn't seem to fuck over their guitar playing or necessarily they're singing but but i mean it's like anything you when you're when you're younger and you're uh and you're hungrier for things or whatever your your music your output's gonna be much different isn't it

like if you have something to say or whatever i mean these guys have been millionaires for decades now so it's like their experiences and stuff yeah They can go back to them and talk about the old days or whatever, but you know what I mean? Like most of them are like pretty happy and comfortable now. So like, uh, I guess a lot of their new music will be influenced by that more so than, you know, like, oh fuck, I watched my friend die and stuff like that in the streets. And you know what I mean? Like, I think it was like a lot more raw and desperate in the early days when they had nothing. And then once they become established and stuff, it changes. Is that why people liked it?

I mean, that's the thing with YouTube as well, right? And Twitch. The authenticity of the people is part of it, right? You want to believe that you are watching one guy in his bedroom. is part of it, right? You want to believe that you are watching one guy in his bedroom or, it's like almost allowing one or two people to have their own freed ability to get out to the masses.

I guess that's, I'm just saying that's the equivalent, you know, when it was like one guy from the hood or whatever, I don't know what I'm talking about. You know, coming up with songs that were genuine. I don't know. Or affected by his small area. It feels more pure, I guess. I don't know.

There's always been that, though, hasn't there? Rather than the manufactured kind of way. Everything's better before money gets in there. I'm telling you. Once these big companies come in and decide they're going to start molding people and producing people into oh we think you're a talent so we're going to mold you and come up with an image for you and all this kind of stuff and it fucking sucks man the music industry is is horrible there's loads of there's loads of people

getting ripped off by the big companies which sucks and there's loads of people having the creativity beaten out of them by fucking contracts and arsehole companies and fuck them all. Yeah, it is amazing how those arsehole contracts seem to be still a thing. One of the things that we do is, like I've always said, all of our contracts in the Yogscast with everyone are literally not worth the paper they're written on. Because if you want to leave or do anything, I just call my lawyer. I wiped my ass with mine the other day. But I'm never going to be that asshole guy who's like,

well, actually in the contract, it says you have to do this. It's like, well, it's just not worth it. Like to rock the boat and just cause trouble for everyone. I don't see why,

you know, it seems like, cause you hear about this, like, like, you know, like sort of teenage, you know, pop stars get signed to like lifetime contracts and stuff and, you know, terrible exploitative things or their parents take like, you know, all the

money and run off. It seems like a real common thing to happen. Kids stars, that happens with a lot because I think even to get your kids into that sort of thing to begin with I mean a kid's not gonna want to become a an actor or a singer or anything at that age they don't know what the hell's going on so that's like purely driven by the parents who then can see the the dollar signs in their eyes sort of thing right like you see like a lot of YouTube kids are like that now too you know like the ones that open toys and stuff just no way that they woke up and thought i'm just gonna get myself some equipment and i've got a really good idea

for a format and um you know i'm just gonna open up kinder surprise eggs and just see what's inside and just just let the camera capture the magic you know like fucking he's like a seven-year-old kid like it's totally his dad and mom putting him up to it thinking that they're gonna get a big payday sort of thing you know what i mean and then as soon as they get a big payday they're like we have to keep this going yeah of course but then the kid is fucked up going into later years because then the kid's like well hang on that's my money like where's all my money and the parents have just like pissed it up a wall that kid is fucked up because he's constantly he's constantly trying to open kinder eggs he's like burning out on him. He's got several YouTube channels going.

And one of his parents done with it, they bought a whole bunch of rustic-themed wooden ornaments for their house. That's all they got to show for it after it's all done. He's starting to borrow money to buy Fabergé eggs and open those up. Country home.

Home is where the heart is. With a wire to hold it up. You know, like those ornaments that you get? Like those rustic... He gets really fat and starts turning egg--shaped he's like humpty dumpty yeah he's all standing on a wall one day and he's like just i want to end it oh he falls off so how many how many youtubers do you think like i was gonna say like a lot of bands i was gonna say they're the best that they like the best that they produce is very early in their career because they're not jaded

they're not rich they've got they've got angst and hunger in their career because they're not jaded, they're not rich. I completely agree. They've got angst and hunger. Yeah, and they're not being interfered with. So I think how many YouTubers, their early stuff when it's raw and honest before they start going, hey guys, thanks, let me just take a moment to give a shout out to a sponsor, blah, blah, blah. And then it's like five minute intro to the video of them running over some product and then they talked about subscribing and then they talk about some other videos and they respond to some comments.

And then you get into the meat of their video. It was much better when it was just them thinking, what's this YouTube thing? Let me just chuck some shit out there and see how that goes. It's totally a cycle, right? And it does come out the other end and some people can transcend the cycle, but I think, yeah, you're right. Mostly it is someone doing it passionately. They love their thing. They're really excited about it. They put loads of work into it, loads of joy into it. And then they start realizing thing. They're really excited about it. They put loads of work into it, loads of joy into it. And then they start realizing that they could do it for a career. So they do it for a career, but then either it doesn't work out

or they lose the energy themselves or it starts having, you know, it's not making that much money. So they have to then feel like they have to push all these sponsors and do all this stuff. Or even if it is very successful and they're already loaded, they still feel like that's the route that takes. And then eventually they slowly lose their passion for it Or even if it is very successful and they're already loaded, they still feel like that's the route that takes them. And then eventually they slowly lose their passion for it until they find a sort of plateau of something that works for them,

which is probably different to the original thing because they've changed over time. You see it again and again on YouTube. I was talking about this yesterday when I was streaming, talking about selling out and degrees of selling out and stuff. And it's weird, isn't it? We're talking about, you know how like i'm playing minecraft now and for a while i was always like oh god i can't believe people still play minecraft it was a fad from like a while ago or

whatever but i've actually like enjoyed playing it recently because i've actually played the game properly instead of just you know recording it for youtube or whatever like i built some cool stuff that i'm proud of like i'm getting into like some of the different mechanics of the game and everything and it's just become like a bit like satisfactory or factorial or something you know like i'm just automating everything and building stuff and so i feel because i'm enjoying it i don't feel like a big sellout just for picking up a game that was like trending or whatever because i'm genuinely enjoying it right like i don't i don't feel like a big sellout just for picking up a game that was like trending or whatever, because I'm genuinely enjoying it, right? Like, I don't, I don't feel like I'm forcing myself every day to play it for money and for, you know, more followers or whatever. And there's like, there's, but there's a very fine line, isn't there? Like, it can just quickly become like,

I'm just doing this for the money, or I'm just doing this for the fame or whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, like Fortnite, you know i've been playing fortnight a bit and you know i've been streaming it and uh he's getting like to the top of twitch with my fortnight streams and you know i always thought that fortnight was just like you've been trying to join a pro team tsm lewis you're trying to become the next big 16 year old pro i mean now i'm getting into the mechanics of fortnight and i'm starting to understand it i'm starting to love it you know before i was just you know recording it for the money but now yeah you know i'm really i really love i really love the game yeah um i love the players yeah i've gone like the opposite way because i used to actually just record minecraft for the money because it was popular and i knew

i could make money and get views from it and now i still can but i actually enjoy playing the game now i thought you were playing mine Minecraft because your kid was playing Minecraft. Originally, I started, yeah, because he was getting into it. And we still play it. Yeah, I thought you did. You played together. And I thought that was quite wholesome. And I think that's a good intro.

And I don't think you need to justify it or anything. I never even suspected that you thought you were doing it for the trending reasons or whatever. Sometimes you find a game and you don't play it. I don't feel like I have to justify it it much i just find it interesting you know like how how easy it is to sell out um but then what actually constitutes selling out right and there's like varying degrees of it like selling out you're someone who's very paranoid about that idea because you you grew up with this like nirvana-y kind of fuck the man kind of attitude where you know selling out was seen as and still-y kind of fuck the man kind of attitude where you know selling

out was seen as and still today i'm very uncomfortable doing any kind of brand sponsorships or anything but i've come to terms with it because for a start sometimes you do one sponsorship and it pays the same as an entire month worth of videos well yes especially youtube these days fuck me yeah and then the other thing is like you know you do one and it's actually something you're kind of into anyway and it's like well i'm sort of probably gonna do i wanted to do something around this anyway so i think the important thing is and i like if i ever do any any um any any content really where i'm being paid for it if it's something i actively dislike or or don't want to play i need to make sure that um people are aware that i'm i'm

i'm not going to be nice about the thing i'm playing for money all right right like for example the crunchy roll thing well i don't think you should be doing that really doing like sponsorships around things you don't honest about stuff they don't want you to they don't pay you right but that's what i'm saying is i'm not going to go in and say like for instance let's say league of legends let's say riot for some reason offered to pay me money to play their game and see how great it was. That, to me, would be selling out. If I'm going to go against stuff I've said before or hold an opinion that's contrary to my real opinion for money, that's selling out. If someone's going to pay me to play a game I already play and say nice things about it, I'm doing that anyway.

Why not get paid for it? I don't think that's selling out i think selling out is when you compromise your values or change the way you're doing stuff like imagine if if sips his stream completely changed and he was like super upbeat hey guys welcome don't forget to mash that subscribe button and stuff i mean i have been doing all that as well and also dressing up like a clown but i still don't feel like I'm fully selling out. I don't think that's fully selling out, but yeah. It's close. Interestingly, I've made a lot of money off of other people's

Minecraft parody music recently as well, which I'm not sure legally where I stand on that. But it has been fairly lucrative because I hate them all so much. People are willing to donate a lot of money to get me to play them. I can't refuse. If somebody gives me 50 bucks to play a song, I to get me to play them i can't refuse right somebody gives me 50 bucks to play a song i'm playing that song you know what i mean they're selling out and then there's just like paid money right i mean there's a balance in there somewhere so everybody

yeah there is definitely a balance i do i do love money yeah i don't dislike money. So somewhere in there, there's a sweet spot. But I don't want to listen to those songs. I remember Jesse had a way of doing his brand deals that was like, you know, Jesse. Jesse sells out. I think it was even called Jesse sells out. It was really funny. And he just did a sponsorship every week. And I really respected that, actually, and really liked that attitude towards it.

I think that was really positive. I think my biggest problem with sponsorships is I would probably do sponsorships deals more often if they were offered to me because I truly believe that nobody wants to touch me with a barge pool. Like they just see me as some sort of like leper on the platform and they don't want to give me any opportunities.

They have tuned into your Twitch. Nobody want to give me any opportunities they have seat they have they have tuned into your twitch nobody wants to sponsor me so i mean so yeah so of course i can i can berate sellouts and stuff because i'm not getting any opportunities so i got nothing fucking ass this is the kind of fucking chat we have at the pub where we lament how old we are and like how we're not getting off on anything. And how it was all good back in the day. You can't compete with these young whippersnappers coming in there with their fortnights and their splinters. Oh, fuck me.

It does feel like we're a bunch of old prospectors. And these young punks have come in with their clever prospecting techniques. And we resent them. It's an interesting viewpoint as well. Because there's a lot of people out there more so than ever now it always has been popular thing for people to dabble in and try to make it on twitch and stuff like that but i think i think it's good to i think it's good if you're an aspiring streamer youtuber whatever to get some of these insights at least most of them are joking but um you know what i mean there's there's how often do you guys get asked for advice from people looking to get

into what fairly often but it's always like what what are some what are some tips i could use to do to get into it and i never know what to say because my whole experience and journey has been unlike many others like i was i was pretty much handed a fan base um and lewis one day just said to me do you want to play more video games and make money off them and i said yes he's like okay cool and that's how it started so like right i never got into any of this because i loved making videos and content and i wanted to dabble around with the platforms and stuff like that if sips sips would still be working in a bank Yeah, entertaining like the five guys that he works with and they'd be having a whale of a time

But no one else would you know, yeah, that would be how it would be set up There's a lot of people I really respect on YouTube Like I really love watching like Tom Scott's videos where he goes around the world looks at weird shit It's like a toxic I do like Tom Scott, but I think he's not funny, which I do find quite annoying. I don't think you have to be. Yeah, but he sometimes tries to be. And I do think he needs to get a fucking haircut, Tom,

because half the time in the video, he's just trying to get his hair out of his face. Get a fucking haircut or put some gel in that shit, dude, because it really fucking pisses me off. He is very clever. And actually, that kind of counts like for being a bit witty like you'll find that sometimes clever people are quite you know you see it on qi and stuff as well like the smart people sometimes although they're not obviously very

funny people they are quick-witted yeah and i think he's got enough wit to to keep it keep it fun yeah um i will say this i know he does a lot of prep i know tom scott does a lot of prep. And I have a lot of respect for that, that he researches it to the point where sometimes he's trying to explain to you, look, this is not the truth because there's different versions of what happened. Like he goes to that town, that mining town in Australia that's like everybody lives underground because it's so fucking hot. And it was like his version of that. He's like, I asked this guy and he said that. And I asked this guy and he said that.

So the bias is who do I believe? And then I present that to you and then you assume that's the truth. But I am wrong. I can easily be wrong. And I thought that was actually one of the best things he said in his videos uh he also does stuff like go underground into caves a lot and I find that very that gets my blood pressure going I can't handle that shit he went into a big oil tank to see if he could find the what is the most echoey room which I know is the kind of thing you think who comes up with that but that's amazing

it's like an oil tank that they used in world War II to store fuel underground and it needs to be underground so if we got bombed you know the fuel would be all right and he went in there and he made a noise and they had these very sensitive mics to detect the sound bouncing about how long did that echo stay in that room for since I had nowhere else to go which was quite interesting Cody's Labs uh Cody's Labs sorry he does some stuff as well like that that guy that guy is a bit of a bit like i i have a love-hate relationship a lot of his stuff is incredibly weird and boring and crazy like he doesn't really appear to know what he's doing a lot of the time yeah i did i want to

say this i want you to play cody bingo all right and the number one word you have to look for is precipitate he says precipitate all the time in his videos he's like we'll just let that precipitate out well the the sulfur will precipitate out from the nitrous sulfur fuck slide no problem i love the kermit the frog voice for the for the science bit so if you like that sort of stuff i recommend um v source obviously he just he's just all because v source did like a whole uh three seasons of this mind field for youtube premium or whatever and it's all just come up free on youtube and it's like really worth a watch because he's he's an interesting guy he's kind of gone a little bit less because sometimes vsauce does like the most ridiculous math videos of all time and you're like you've you've lost him

in like two minutes flat but it seems to be it seems to carry on i'm i'm annoyed by him because people keep saying you look like this because i'm bald and have some chin hair and glasses you're nothing watching him i'm just like he's like like a lot of things he's like a reflection of me who is much more successful so you know when you have like like a bad mirror i know what you mean you have a bad mirror and you know that you look all right in real life and the mirror is kind of fucked up and a little faded and maybe some of the backings come away and your mirrored image is like really bad and you think that this mirror sucks i am the the bad reflection in the mirror that you think oh god there is this there is this thing this this jealousy thing when i i sometimes sense it like when i see someone doing

something similar to me and i'm like why is that guy so much more successful and it's like this little this little jealousy annoyed kind of oh god i hate how good this guy is yeah yeah yeah i i get that a lot sometimes you hate how good guys are i love yeah so uh right we'll move on i what i went to paradox con this week oh Oh, yeah. So I've got some terribly long-winded anecdotes about what happened. Oh, yeah, that's right. Yeah. Did they announce a bunch of games that won't be out till 2021?

Fuck, I remember getting an email from somebody like months ago. Simon Callaghan. Months ago saying, do you want to go to PDXCon? I was like, yes, but let me confirm. And fuck, i never did and then and then it was all of a sudden oh it's pdx con this weekend oh shit i forgot to confirm so i i could have gone and i wanted to go i thought you told me you couldn't go no i didn't i didn't confirm it was just me and duncan it was the most lonely fucking i could have gone and it would have

been exciting right they announced CK3 which is huge fucking there's a guy called Simon Callaghan who always emails me right and I got I woke up and I looked and I had seven emails from Simon

Callaghan video first expansion of Age of Wonders videos Dolores with new expansions video Battletech and then I thought the last one was Crusader Kings 3

which is obviously the last announcement they made now a lot of people were like really hyped for that because they love CK I know you love CK too but the CK2 after like five years of expansions and DLC this is the problem with the DLC model inherently is unless the game is like a total rebuild reinvention it's like Civ suffers from this it's like well the new Civ coming out, but everybody knows it's going to be shit until four DLCs down the line and a bunch of patches and mods.

So surely Paradox have backed themselves into a corner. Crusader Kings 3, I would be excited. If I could see how they could improve CK2. This is actually the very first thing they said when we sat down and they were like, look, we've got seven years worth of DLC here. Yeah. What's going to be put in?

And they said, we're going to put almost everything in. Oh, please. Straight away. And I was like, exactly, how can they put everything in? But I think a lot of the shit that was added in the DLCs was stuff that wasn't all that important anyway. I think the main thing is that when you're setting up a game, stuff that was introduced in a DLC previously that some people liked and some people didn't,

I think you just need to have an option to enable and disable stuff, right? Because I heard that the trade places like Venice and stuff are going to be like base game, which they weren't in C in CK2. Like it was a DLC sort of thing. Some people are saying, I don't I don't like them. You know, I don't like how they work or whatever. I wouldn't want them in the base game or whatever. But I'm sure there's going to be an option to just sort of say, you know, don't have I think they've got an opportunity to simplify the game a bit to like for new players. I mean, there is there is a certain thing with

paradox games that they are you invest 200 hours in learning the fucking thing um so so i think i think having the knowledge that we have of ck2 is going to serve us well on ck3 i feel like i've not those hours that i've spent learning it have been wasted because it seems like a lot of the shits still the fucking same but also i think that the wrestling with the ui for me was a big part of ck2 and we've changed a lot of that um like just just being able to see stuff like classically like if you want to find out whether someone of your dynasty has married someone else it's like such a fucking fiddle to get through the ui and like and i think they've really just dumped like like drilled down on that i think the main thing about ck3 is that it focuses

on your dynasty and it's like the idea really is not for you to try and play it like you're playing civ it's to kind of be like these old school dynasties back in the day where you would marry off your family to as many families as possible and then you'd pop they'd all fucking pop up back and you'd be like okay this this great great grandson you know has got a fucking heir to the throne of bavaria and this fucking guy's now his he's sired all these children off in fucking sweden and he's you know he's now going to take over the king of that and before you know it you've got like fingers in pies all over the fucking place that's that's what it's supposed to be you know you're supposed to be all like knocking off people left right center and scheming and murdering and game of thronesing it really

rather than like you're rather than just trying to play slow expansion simulator. Well, I mean, you want to paint the map, but you want to have a tight dynasty while you're painting it. Yeah, that's true. My liege, dynasty report. Situation is tight. We've got a tight dynasty. We've got to have a tight dynasty.

We have some very tight children. The last run I had at CK2 was like the fucking best. Holy shit, it was so good. I owned everything. My empire was enormous. It was so big, I could not control it anymore.

It just descended into chaos almost instantly. But man, it was fun. Like a real civilization. I mean, that's the way the thing about power, isn't it? You think, oh, I'd love to be the king, but being the king is like this terrifying position of power

because everyone else wants to be the king and they're all looking to fucking put you down. You can't trust anyone. And it's like, you know, you're constantly living in fear. You know, often, like, people don't realize that, but getting to the top is like this position that you never want to be in. So, yeah, I don't advise it.

Anyway, it went to ParadoxCon. Saw CK3, thought it was okay. Or at least looks good for now. I think it's time for a re-event and a re-launch. It seems like... The other thing is they've actually got... I don't know if you remember this, but there's a guy called John Schaefer

who made a game called At The Gates. Fucking hell. I heard about that. I never played it. He went to work for PDX and then they got rid of him and he's gone back to making At The Gates and it finally came out and everybody was like, this isn't very good.

Has he updated it or something? Because I fucking kickstarted that shit. No, but one of the guys who was working on it, or at least At The Gates, I think has gone back and is working on CK3. or at least at the gates, I think has gone back and is working on CK3. And I think he's added the same tooltips in tooltips model to CK3,

which I am in love with. Basically, it's like a tooltip and you can click on things in the tooltip to teach you the game. And at the gates, that was the best thing about at the gates. It was the tooltips within tooltips. What a game.

That sounds thrilling. The same guy who's coded that. Look, I just saying just before before we move on tools with the tools that's what it's all about for me um fucking loved it um anyway so so went to paradox con okay first of all uh when first of all when we were traveling there i had that they obviously um the flights were booked by someone but i had to go from from bristol to amsterdam from amsterdam to berlin right and duncan was like oh god because duncan sort of didn't realize that this is what was happening when he turned up in the morning he was like oh we gotta go through amsterdam but they always lose my luggage and i was like i'm sure i'll be fine anyway they lost my luggage

oh my god how so in 2019 how does this happen but but... I don't want to jinx myself, but man, I've never lost luggage. I think it was to do with the fact that when we got to Amsterdam, the plane we were flying had some damage on the bottom. And they were like, yeah, we spotted some panels damaged at the plane. I'm not sure we're going to be able to take off. So we were waiting on the tarmac for like an hour. And then eventually they were like, yeah, we're not going to be allowed to fly. So we're going to have to get a new plane.

So everyone had to get off the plane and had to wait for a new plane and got on a new plane. Anyway, a journey that was supposed to take like three hours or four hours ended up being like nine or ten. So we got to Germany and fairly late. And I went and bought some spare pants and socks and a toothbrush, you know, just to keep me going. But in Amsterdam? No, in Berlin when we got there. But it was late.

And then we went to this. So they put on like a dinner, like a drinks and dinner on the first night. So it was starting at like 8 o'clock at this beer house. And I was like, oh, my God. So at this point, I'd only had like all I'd eaten like all fucking day was some avocado on toast. At like 7 in the morning. Because we'd been up since like 6. And I was like, I'll just get some chips and salad.

It'll be fine. So we got there. And it's like this fucking, they booked out like 70 people's worth of tables in this beer house. Okay. And there's beer everywhere. Okay. We can order beer. But they're like, don't worry, we're going to order food later.

So it's like, okay, cool. Can I order it now? No. Okay. And there's one guy in this beer house assigned to 70 people. One server. I don't know whether this is normal. Okay. And like each booking gets assigned a server i don't know whether this is normal okay and like

each booking gets assigned a server do you mean and it's like the standard thing like you're gonna get this group of people and but but when he was like talking to me he was like oh yeah i don't get tips i'm not gonna get tips or anything so i was like i just asked him like why are you the only guy and he's like oh it's policy or whatever and i was like and so seven what 70 drunk journalists and like influencers and paradox people in this beer house one guy trying to bring us that's ridiculous bring us beer and then finally he comes around to take a food order oh my god so i'm like can i have some chips and salad please like two hours go by and there's no fucking we're all completely drunk that sounds terrible no food

came what cool i mean i i hate that excuse it's policy yeah it's your policy and it sucks yeah he couldn't possibly i don't care if it's your policy how about this get five people to serve that many people even then it's going to be hard work like that's a lot i started making jokes to people about it like to try and lighten it up i was like oh i went over to the thing and i was like do you guys know there's only one guy serving 70 people here and the people at the at the at the front desk were like oh yes and i was like okay cool cool i was just like i was i was like deliberately hinting to anyone who would listen, like a little staff. But no one, they didn't do anything about it.

You know what I fucking hate? I don't mind if someone's busy, it's not their fault. But what I hate is when everyone can see this is stupid. Like this is bad. This makes no sense. You would never have set it up like this on paper, but that's the way it's ended up and no one's going to do shit about it. That drives me crazy. You can see this is illogical this is a logical really funny this is that you're losing money like

if we can order less stuff you make less money we're just sitting here for free yeah stupid that's what it that's what it was i think if they'd actually served us properly we would have bought loads of us anyway um so we went to went to paradox con and it's basically uh they they rented out like a huge um x raid pirate radio station in east in the east side east side of berlin which i feel like from my limited amount of driving around berlin the east side still feels a lot more run down than i thought it would be i mean i went and saw the berlin wall and did all the stuff so i know about the history and the cold war and blah blah blah. It still didn't feel like... It still felt a bit grimier. I don't know.

It's the architecture, isn't it? It's all very... My Minecraft playthrough, sorry to plug it again, but it features a lot of disgusting, soulless architecture like Soviet Russia. I'm just saying, if that's your thing.

Sometimes that's the style. I can get get behind it i didn't hate it i was just um just sort of berlin's so so such as still such a dichotomy really um anyway i got got went to this place and of course i think i think a little bit like because of course we've done yog con and i've done a lot of this stuff i sort of i only sort of saw mistakes really it was generally a really good well-organized con i think yeah but on on the first day it was it was pretty empty so there was like it was like a press day and they were just all setting up and stuff yeah and they showed us the game sort of before the the crowds arrived and because of that i think without the crowds the place was freezing cold um and all we had is like hot, hot coffee. Like there were no like room warms, warm rooms to go in.

So we're all there in our jackets and coats. Did they not have like a room filled with computers that, I mean, that would have just Well, the thing is, it was basically the way it was, it's a huge open mega warehouse with a stage in the middle and booths around the edge. So it was kind of like, but it was just like five degrees in there and so what me and doug were just like holding on to cups of coffee and just by about one o'clock in the afternoon i'd had like five cups of coffee oh my god why sweating brow sweat eyes open. I quickly realized how much I enjoy Paradox games. You know, I really enjoyed the morning.

So I enjoyed playing. I enjoyed seeing Age of Wonders and Stellaris and Hearts of Iron and BattleTech and the new stuff for all these games. They announced a lot of stuff, didn't they? I played that after Surviving the Aftermath. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Because it's on the.

It's. Yeah. It's pretty early. But it's yeah it's pretty early yeah but it's it's promising it it's surviving mars basically but in a different setting with with a couple of different mechanics and stuff but i think it's all right yeah for city builder resource manager sort of thing it's and it's they're all they're all fine all the games are good honestly and and you know i had a nice time everyone everyone's lovely but the berlin's nice and then um so they they got it got to like lunch time and they they sort of put on like lunch

for us obviously which is very kind of them to do that um but the lunch was lasagna right uh with that's it beef in it you can either have one of them was either lasagna or uh vegetarian lasagna so you you could have could have eaten it but obviously i i couldn't so i had some lettuce leaves why couldn't you eat it well because he's a vegan now can't eat cheese what's wrong with the what's wrong with it cheese what do you what's wrong with cheese look i'm not gonna complain i'm this is this is not the complainy bit okay cheese isn't a living thing lewis it's just i was totally fine um i'm not complaining but here's the bit i've complained

about so we we got to the evening and um they they had like a a party right for us and like so and so with like a buffet um and so the fucking the fucking buffet was like little dishes with something in them. So like, you know, a strip of beef on like some leaves or like a strip of salmon on something. You know, just tiny, small buffet things. But they had a large display of little bowls of a square of lasagna. And I was like, hmm, that lasagna looks strangely familiar. Is it all of the lasagna that wasn't eaten at lunchtime uh well that's fine you know what recycling what are they gonna do just chuck

it all in the garbage what a waste yeah but it was like a fancy like kind of it was like a fancy buffet with a lot of garfield would have had a fucking heart attack you would have eaten all that shit i was just like i was like okay fair enough but like i didn't want it at lunchtime i'm certainly not gonna want it now yeah well i mean some people might have loved it so much at lunch time that they were like fuck yeah dinner two second holy shit more of that amazing lasagna with those slightly wilted carrots i feel like i won the lottery today double helpings of lasagna wow so i i just googled up on my phone um local vegan place and went and took um spiff and jose and a bunch of guys we went there and so what is wrong with cheese though what's the deal cheese comes from an animal uh and therefore

vegans don't eat anything to do with animals like nothing that comes from an animal so i get that but but what what's wrong with cheese like what do you think happens in the manufactured cheese that's bad for animals well it starts it starts with uh with with milk right so it's is it because they make they take the milk from the cows and the cows might want to do something with that well they the cows only produce milk to feed their young. So a cow is purposely impregnated constantly to keep it producing milk that is then not given to a baby cow and bottled for human consumption. And that's why vegans don't drink it. Milk is fantastic if you're a baby cow.

But if you're a human being, a 36-year-old man, it's not the best. For the record, I'm not a vegan And for the record I'm a 39 year old man I drink tons of milk and there's nothing wrong with me Milk is not allowed to be called nutritious There's nothing wrong with me though Lewis I'm fine People are like oh you need calcium for your bones

Don't get me on the vegan agenda here I just want to understand What the issue is with cheese that's that is what i just said with milk take a little bit of milk yeah i mean what where's the harm i mean what would happen to these cows if they didn't make milk lewis where would they be well they know like their babies are normally slaughtered for um for like uh which what which which i'm gonna call it i think veal rennet and uh yeah veal i think yeah look i'm not gonna be a dick about it you know sometimes like if if if like it's

if i've given a cheese pretzel and i haven't eaten all day i will eat a cheese pretzel and i'm not gonna complain but what about i'm not gonna lodge a complaint with the airline about the cheese in it but well i don't care like at the end of the day i think if it's already done it's already done but i'm just i just generally avoid it when I don't have to eat it. You know, when I'm given no choice, I'm just going to eat whatever. But, you know, I feel like it's not good for you. There's this illusion that cheese is somehow healthy. I don't think anyone thinks cheese is healthy.

Well, like milk. All right, people think milk's healthy, and it's i don't think anyone thinks cheese is healthy well like milk all right people think milk's healthy and it's not just simply not i mean to be fair we we as europeans were able to develop lactose tolerance past childhood and that was kind of a big reason for us uh getting as far as we did because milk's like a really good thing for kids to drink it's got a lot of stuff in it that they would normally not get because kids don't want to fucking eat anything they just want to sit around it's certainly that's certainly true yeah i think if you're if your kid has a terrible diet you should also well i think every kid does though that's the thing but calcium is obviously the only thing going for it and even that you get from other stuff if you eat properly yeah if you but i mean rip for people who don't

eat properly which is the vast majority of you unfortunately i think milk is pretty good let's not go down the cheese problem i just i just want to understand the uh the logic behind saying i mean i i mean you know the argument against against dairy cows and and mass farming i i get it like i hate to see animals treated badly yeah i try to buy free range stuff i don't want to see sure so i don't want to eat meat from a cow that's been tormented yeah for my enjoyment and to make i mean i know that they do things like there's definitely more humane ways of doing it but vegans vegans don't see any of it as humane so they don't which is fair enough as well i i took my advice from this guy called dr gregor who wrote

a book saying how not to die and he basically was just he just puts together a lot of scientific studies on a lot of different people throughout history whether it's people who are on an island and don't have any animal products or you know people who eat different things like the mediterranean diet or religious people who don't eat animal products for religious reasons. And they just live longer, have healthier, better, happier lives by not consuming any animal products. So that's that's just that's how I follow. Yeah, my that's what I was what I believed in. And so you think I'm going to die early because I maybe I've been suckered in on the old propaganda bullshit. Let me tell you something. I can't even eat cheese.

You know what? If it makes you happy, who gives a fuck but i can't even eat cheese anymore i used to love cheese i disagrees with me now yeah i'm the same i developed some kind of i can't drink a lot of milk if i if i drink too much milk or anything like i get i get i'm i've developed lactose intolerance as i've gotten older which is standard like a lot of as you get older you know you develop your gutty works change right like i'm the same with a lot of a lot of different food a lot of different food that i didn't like when i was younger i guess my palate has now decided to accept it used to swallow a lot of cum well this is it and now uh now i find myself eating a lot of shit directly out of an ass um which i never had the stomach for before but now now... Triforce fans, that's 44 minutes and 14 seconds into the podcast.

People like to time these things. That's a new record, yeah. So apparently some vegans have an issue with honey. Yeah, well, it's the byproduct of a living thing. But the thing is, I've spoken about this before, not on here, but the other thing as well for for vegans is that you there's honey sport there's degrees of veganism as well right because some vegans are just like yeah okay i don't eat honey i don't have dairy or whatever i don't eat meat and stuff but

we'll still go out and buy unknowingly products that have like say palm oil in it for example which is which is super bad for the environment from the palm of the hand of a child well no it's it's not that it's the it's to get these things set up and to to get them ready for mass manufacturing you have to tear down like tons of forest rainforest everything yeah so so you have to take into account the the habitats of animals as well through all this so like any any component to mass manufacturing is going to have take its toll on habitats i agree so you you also can't really buy into that but a lot of people unknowingly do because we live in a western society you know we're used to getting everything in a can

instantly off the shelf where there's just an abundance of everything and whatever like we're conditioned in a big way but so like you have to think about all of that stuff too so honey all right it says here on wikipedia some vegans believe that exploiting the labor of bees and harvesting their energy sources of moral. I mean, we could pay them, I guess. We could work out. It's an exploitative process to take the bee who works for free and take his honey. It is morally.

Well, I mean, whatever. That's what they believe. I mean, it has no effect on you. I mean, you go buy honey. It does because we need bees. And I think beekeepers do a really sterling job of keeping bees alive and looking after them and raising awareness of the problems yeah that frankly your average bee is facing on a day-to-day basis and we need to be more aware of them we do yeah and the fact that some people don't consume any of it is a good thing as well like fair play

to them and then for all of the people who do that awareness is there as well it's it it's it's just good that that exists or whatever we're also really lucky to live in a day and age where there's so many alternatives like you know 20 years ago there wouldn't be a habit there's no alternative to honey my friend no but there's there's ways around everything now even like there's even like vegan cheese now there's you know we're making we can make like fake meat out of fucking mushrooms and stuff like it's it's the best time to to get into any of this stuff and it's a lot more sustainable the fake meat is now so good that i actually mrs f sometimes because she's she's uh she makes corn she's a conniving bitch i mean she's she's tricky i mean the thing is it's

better i'm just checking if she's still listening it's better for you. I'm just checking if she's still listening. It's better for you as well. There's far less cholesterol in it. Like, it is. But she sneaks stuff in there. Yeah. So she'll serve me dinner and I eat it. She's like, what do you think of that? And the moment she gets that little crafty look on her face,

I think, I know what's up here. And I said, yeah, it was good. You flip the plate and you suck on it. You're like, you bitch. You give me your fake meat again. That was made by bees who were paid minimum wage. And I'm like, oh, I can taste the morality in this. I'm not a vegan.

And I still eat honey and stuff. And I'm unlikely to change my ways in that sense. But I think it's good that some people um have cut all of that out of their diet and i'm glad that like those people have the the willpower to do it and are aware of the issues i'm sorry about my vegan agenda guys i i know a lot of people feel strongly about this and i feel like i get it like totally i would have like probably even like a couple years ago been like rolling my eyes at all this shit. I don't know.

It's just something which I followed it as a religion, and it could well just be bollocks, but I like it. It works for me. It makes me happy. If you're happy. Don't be mad. Here's the thing. You know when people say,

if you're not harming anybody, go for it. You're really not harming not only anybody, but anything by being a vegan. I would never argue. You're harming capitalism. I but anything by being a vegan i would never argue you're harming i've misused some vegetables though some vegetables have had a real bad time i've really cucumber did not see what was coming all of a sudden it was in this dark cave and it smelled like poop up there and it was where am i what is this man doing to me in and out and in and out faster and faster i don't know where i am covering me in this slippery substance what if we discovered what if we discovered that

vegetables and plants had a brain like we just discovered they had some some level of consciousness and pain which i know i listened to a thing on radio 4 where they talk to a lady who listens to plants yeah and they actually do make that's very radio 4 isn't it yeah and i mean you couldn't pick a more appropriate thing and it was it was uh it was quite sweet and um they found that plants change their behavior when there are bees around like they can hear or they're not here in the way we can but they respond to the sound of bees and stuff like that so there is some kind of communication going on and they'll talk to each other like if one of them uh a tree in like an area gets infected by something it'll sort of let the other trees know by secreting this uh chemical that the other trees then respond to so there is some level of communication now i i wonder how how far do you

have to take the definition of living things and intelligence and suffering along before you accept that we really shouldn't eat anything and we should just maybe we should just eat each other would be the ultimate no right but um you know like i i think i i think aiming to do just putting it out there i think i think i think thinking long term and trying to do things that are a bit more sustainable in the long term is never a bad thing, right? I hope you're right. I hope that they don't discover that actually tofu production is terribly bad for the environment. And I mean, it's just it's not being made en masse the way meat is. No.

I mean, the fact that they're cutting down rainforest to grow cows and stuff i get it like that that sucks yeah absolutely and and we do eat too much meat i get it's not it's come on no i know but there's there's degrees to there you know it's never it's never black and white right there's there's always there's always bits in between some people take it further than others and stuff it's just what how it goes right they won't have eggs yeah they won't even have eggs fuck eggs what kind of mayonnaise no cheese no eggs i mean you can't even have cream eggs because there's yeah lewis can't even eat chocolate uh he has to get vegan chocolate right because there's no i can eat dark chocolate oh yeah i guess so yeah dark chocolate's really nice actually i like it that's what's one thing i used

to hate when i was a kid now i love it i That's one thing I used to hate when I was a kid. Now I love it. I love dark chocolate now. I used to hate it. I used to not be able to eat it at all. Now I eat so much of it that I make myself sick. Yeah. Almost daily.

I've got a problem. Send help. Can't stop eating the chocolate. It's fine. I think everything in moderation. Eggs are not great, but as long as you don't have more than one a day, you'll probably be alright.

Have you guys ever played Rainbow Six Siege? Yeah. Oh, man. I've been playing it recently. I've developed a love-hate relationship with that game. I get owned from it very quickly. So many nerd angles in that game. I know. There'll be a tiny crack in a wall and I'm like, oh, what's this hole?

And there's a guy that shoots me. I'm like, what is this? A hole. Who knows these nerd angles? This is ridiculous. I love it and hate it at the same time. I love that you can like melee a wall and poke a hole in it

and then shoot through that hole at somebody. Right. I think that's awesome. But when somebody does it to me, fuck you hot dog juice drinking nerd track pan ass wearing fucking mom's meatloaf eating never leave your house sweaty fucking nerd never kill me like that but amen if i do it right hell yeah you got it's hilarious you got owned it's the best yeah no it's it's an interesting game i mean it's a tom clancy game so you know like tom clancy tom clancy presents rainbow six siege by tom clancy music by tom clancy written by tom clancy sign up now for 25 for 10 years yeah it's just uh tom clancy plastered everywhere but um but fuck me it's i can see the appeal i can see

why people like it there's lots of cool little gadgets and the operators there's quite a few of them they all have different abilities and shit it's like it's pretty fun i've been having fun with it i feel like i feel like you need mates you do yeah you've got to play with friends for sure i don't have any mates i don't play the mean either I've just become a fucking loner and he may just play single-player I've got a request for you guys if you guys want to play rust we have we're gonna be we run a server yeah and we wanted to do a thing with you guys for jingle jam where we had like an RP server and because we've been doing that when I'm streaming rust in the evenings we've been working in little storylines so one of the

storylines was that i got a note saying because i opened a shop in rust you can open little shops with vending machines and the cartel turned up emptied the shop left it intact but left a note saying shut this shop down you're competing with the cartel don't do it we were like oh shit and then it sort of escalated into this whole storyline i had to go and meet an informant who told me a way to bring down the cartel it was professor brian cox and he was assassinated while he was in the middle of telling me the plan so it was just like all kinds of really funny shit like that and the guys on my server just just did this they just came up with it and we just played along with it so it gave us the idea we should do this with you guys like so the jingle jam you come

in and play rust and we've we've got all kinds of shit prepared for you lads that sounds so that rust has been great um but my god i mean rust was in the jingle jam bundle previously right like i think a couple of years running i don't think it's in this year i mean i tell you what it is halloween like this this uh podcast going out and we haven't really spoken about anything spooky and stuff but i tell you what's spooky for me. I looked at... Basically, we have to submit the games for the Jingle Jam by the end of October.

It's the thing that maybe we can get an extra week out of it. Looking at the bundle, it's been so, so tricky. I had a spreadsheet and I had my dream list of games for the bundle. It was like 100 long. I did a sick uh the other day on the jingle jam bundle uh when i said that uh you guys are going to get artifact in there and uh and and also further to that because they just announced

a subscription model for fallout 76 that's going to be in there too right i just thought i'd make you aware of the burns just in case you guys were considering adding any of those two games because uh shame on you if you are because that's well no so i had a list of 100 things it was basically like 50 kind of like games that we know like publishers that we know like all the big guys like all the big games we play in all the course of the year all the things i've done tips on all this stuff and then we had like 50 things on like cosmetic stuff for like so we had every game basically it's like dota league uh tf2 path effects on every single game and like and i went all of them said no but we got a we got a customized

artifact card back in the bundle so oh you you fucking nailed it on the head. We got a customized Fallout 76 trinket that you can attach to your gun in Fallout 76 as well. It's so demoralizing because all the people we know are like, sure, we'd love to try and do something. We'd love to get something in. And then they're like, oh, we just couldn't get it through the big box or whatever. And I'm like, oh, for fuck's sake.

So the guy in the suit shut it down at the last hurdle. And it's like, just kill me now. So difficult. I know it'll be fine. And have like i think again it's going to be supported by like this real groundswell of like good indie games yeah it was the wrong year to try to push your free hong kong t-shirts for the uh bad timing that's gonna be one of the charities no so i don't know like it's tricky really i mean i i i don't want the jingle jam to be like an advert like a sunday newspaper stuffed full of like oh there's some vouchers and some oh i can give you some money off or you know i mean like i just i kind of want it to be authentic and like feel like people get like a good choice of things that

they've not seen before or like like it's supposed to be positive for everyone. I just feel like so, so much work from our end. And it's like so demoralizing. It's not easy, but I want you to bear this in mind. We have a great community when it comes to charity stuff. And I think that a lot of people have understood that the Humble Bundle is a bonus. It's a thing that so that we don't feel

that we're just asking people for money for essentially, you know, a good cause. And sometimes you feel like it would be nice to get something in return. And being able to give free games don't feel that we're just asking people for money for essentially you know a good cause and sometimes you feel like it would be nice to get something in return and being able to give free games is a great way of saying thank you for supporting it and a great way of raising money as well because people buy the bundle and all the rest of it yeah but i honestly think the community is just really good at understanding that this is important and the money we raise is really amazing and vital and i i hope that they support it regardless of how many artifacts card backs are in the humble bundle and I

Have faith I do too Thank you. Thank you. That's reassuring Unbelievable, I can't believe it it boggles my mind It's crazy. I mean even more amazing is riot games Have brought out their version of art like games they announced they've got a they've got a first person shooter coming out they've got a diablo like game coming out they've got a the card game that's just come out as well they've got tft like all of a sudden this company like the joke has been that they've had one game for like a over a decade now all of a sudden they potentially

have like eight and not one of them is original. Well done, Riot. But the thing is, I heard a year ago that they were hiring like a hundred people a week. But it's all people leaving. That's how you get quality. Isn't Riot just Blizzard

when Blizzard was good? Like, it's just people that have left Blizzard and they've gone to Riot. You're definitely going to get that fucking... I'd like to apply for a job. You're hired! Get in here!

You're the new head of business Huh? Might be wrong, but I'm pretty sure a lot of them are just ex Blizzard Like I think that I think people just jump ship from Blizzard and go to riot and that's like the career path for them or whatever We should start a game company. We'll hire anybody. Yeah, and we'll just take a game that's popular and make a copy of it Boom careful flex. Okay, careful game that's popular and make a copy of it. Boom. Careful, Flex. Careful. What's popular right now? Fortnite. Yeah, we'll just make a fucking...

We're working on a Battle Royale game but it's going to be good for it. We'll call it Yognite. Minecraft's popular. We could make... Hang on. Hang on one second here. Hang on. make uh we can make oh hang on hang on hang on there's a reference good anyway so um well lewis send me the list so i can add some more games to the list and maybe we can get some other stuff in the bundle yeah if you know anyone like uh what about what what if we get we could try to

get some tom clancy's Rainbow Six Siege. Sign up now for 25 Tom bucks. And also you can get a customized Lewis avatar put onto your Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Siege gun or face. You know what? I wonder if the Magic the Gathering guys would be interested in putting some card codes or something. Some redeemable card codes for Magic Arena. Because I did some stuff with that what you're into no i mean it's like it's a lot of personal no i just i know i did some work for

them i did a sponsored thing for them earlier this year and the the guy uh casey i think his name was in charge of the uk i'll hit him he's a nice guy yeah yeah slide into his dms that's what they say now slide in there lewis I believe they say slide into his DMs. What? I don't know why you want to put his shoes on. Hi, it's me. I'm just sliding into your DMs. Don't mind me.

Just slide me in. Fucking what is this? Right, we better go. Thanks, everyone. It's all fine. Don't worry. It's all working out. Much love. Love you all we're all working out much love

love you all much love peace and love everyone oh wait wait one quick announcement what what

oh no I forgot no that's right carry on see you soon see you later bye