Triforce! - Triforce! #114: What's the Deal With Hollywood?

Episode Date: February 12, 2020

Triforce! Episode 114! We've got some Blockbuster stories, Stand-up analysis and Hollywood reflection in today's Triforce! Support your favourite podcast on Patreon: https://bit.ly/2SMnzk6 Music courtesy of Epidemic Sound. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Please play responsibly. Hello! Hello! Hello! Hello! Hello! Triforce Podcast. You do that intro, but that's not the way you normally talk. I want people to know that. When we see you and we haven't seen you in a while, you don't go,

Hello, I am Lewis Brindley. Hello, nice to see you. When we get on the Discord, he's like, oh, hey. Just got to make a cup of tea back in a minute. Hey, guys. Well, look, it's just a little thing. I don't know. It gets me in the mood.

You know, you've got to psych yourself up for this. You do. You've got to put your game face on, put your game hat on. Do you do, like, when you're talking and stuff, do you do lots of arm and hand gestures like an italian no you should i'm much pinch your front finger pinch your thumb and forefinger together and wave your hands in front of your face when you really want to appeal to someone why i love that when you go to italy they really do they really do yeah they do it's part of the language to speak with they really do do that. But why? They really do do that. It's part of the language to speak with.

They really do do that. It's part of the vigor of that passion. You know, you have to do it as well, or else you don't get the message across. Honestly, words are not enough. If you could supplement it with hand gestures and, like, pictures, and, you know, graphs, great. I'm down.

I think we should all be more willing to do presentations. I think that's what that Mr. big song was about uh more than words the song more than words was talking about more than words is all you have to say that you love me. Cause I'd already know. Say, I mean, no. They just rhyme say, it's lazy. You can't rhyme say with say three times. Like there's, you could say way, blue jay.

I wonder how many times like people have got the wrong idea from words and it's led to like bad stuff to happen you know because it's not it's never clear like i was what i watched um 1917 yesterday which is um was it good i thought it was great yeah a lot of people have said that a 1917. Yeah. I really want to see it. I do really want to see it. I mean, I guess you've heard that it's shot in one shot. That's the idea. And that kind of really enhances the movie, actually.

It makes it feel a lot like Mad Max Fury Road or something like that, in that there's this constant thing going on. You know, it's always like a roller coaster, which is how I think movies should be. I think movies should be this sort of thrill ride, which kind of movies you think should be a thrill ride rollercoaster yeah you should go work in hollywood mate that's what that's their whole bang at the moment a pure movie like where does that leave movies like schindler's list but if like you're changing you imagine the critics came out of schindler's list a roller coaster ride of a movie. A non-stop wall-to-wall action.

Shot in one shot. I think it's, well, I just feel very strongly that it suits the medium well. I mean, you could do other stuff too, but I think that, I just think it's great, really, really good. It feels like a thing that feels like a pet project almost. Someone like, oh, it's going to be quite hard work for us to shoot it in one shot, but almost like a gimmick, though it could easily become like a pet project almost someone like oh it's gonna be quite hard work for us to shoot it in one shot but almost like a gimmick though it could easily become like a gimmick well did you see um children of men um have you seen that yeah why a long time that's a great movie and it has a few sequences in it that are shot as if it's a single shot because they're like it is they had

to use very clever um camera work one of the things they had, there's a scene where they're in a car in the woods and they're attacked from all sides. And the camera has to be able to come in and out of the car and pan around the outside of it, still looking in. And it's like, if you look at the behind the scenes, they built this massive framework to go on the outside of the car with all the jib equipment on and everything.

And then it's all green screened out and and digitally removed but it's it's incredible i i must say it must be terrifying as an actor to think oh god please don't let me just fucking sneeze or or like trip over or fart or something and ruin this entire shot and the rehearsals the practice everything has to be just right when there are special effects involved. Because later in that same movie, there's a big extended single shot battle scene where there's like 100 plus people involved and special effects going off. And it's insane. It's amazing. But I wonder if, like you said, it almost takes you out of the film because you're marveling at this technological thing or if you just almost don't notice you're swept along by it because it feels so much more urgent and like you're really there

i don't know which i think you're right like there is this danger that stuff will pull you out of the movie like seeing uh like sometimes a famous actor can do that like who you don't expect to be like we spoke about this on a previous podcast did we about unexpected cameos taking you out of the moment yeah because there was Benedict Cumberbatch is there as like an army officer and he

suddenly like turns around and he's and I'm like oh fuck me it's Benedict not Benedict again yeah sick of this guy

actually honestly really thought it was a great movie I would recommend it right yeah it's been out for a while now

so I went to cinema with Alex and it was literally just me oh that's perfect because I want to I want to go see it I might yeah it's been out for a while now so i went to cinema with alex and it was literally just me oh that's perfect because i want to i want to go see it i might see it this weekend i'll just go by myself and and go see it and uh because i like going to the cinema like middle of the day very luxurious about being the only one in the cinema yeah i don't know there are a few films i've seen that way and it always feels good yeah yeah it's like having your own personal cinema i feel like i feel like steven spielberg going out to like my backyard and just you know watching it in my own

fucking private cinema that we saw the uh the shining part two was like that remember there's like one dude in the theater oh you're right we went back in the middle of the day doctor that was fine yeah that's fine you know what? I saw the film The Perfect Storm in the Trocadero Center, and I was alone. Was that the one with Marky Mark in it? It had Marky Mark in it, and it had George Clooney in it. And I think it had John C. Reilly in it. Oh, right. And they're fishermen, and they're stuck out at sea in this horrible, perfect storm.

Which is a true story. It's a true story, although the film fabricates it. I used to work at Blockbuster video when that came out on video i remember we had like a wall of that stupid fucking uh well it was like a like dvd at the time right when it came out all right so so you worked at blockbuster i'm very curious yeah did you ever get in a shitload of copies of something and no fucker wanted to see yeah yeah there was a whole bunch of movies like that where i can't think of like specific ones but it did happen for sure so you blockbusters like this is gonna be all of them yeah and and it'd be like they thought like they

were anticipating that you know these copies of these would just be fucking rented out constantly or whatever and it was just like it was it wasn't like that so were there films that people that you you guys had like just one or two copies of that always seem to be out and people were always asking well um yeah like a certain movie would come out and if we didn't have enough of them then yeah you got debbie does dallas yeah there was but like a big movie if a big movie came out and we had tons of copies of it and a lot of them didn't rent out the week after that half of them would be on sale like like as previously viewed like it would like cut down like the rental wall sort of thing and then yeah yeah put them on because i remember like rental vhs's you used to have to if you were a rental shop you had to buy a rental vhs and it was like 100 quid or something like that and so it was quite expensive like um things i

guess it stopped the the from just selling them. Because the stuff that was rental was before it was available to buy or before it was available to be on TV. So they were more expensive and you could only get copies of them like that. And so they were kind of always a bit more valuable. But often you'd get these tapes like X rental. You'd be able to buy them yeah after a while when i started working at blockbuster it was still expensive but

shit quality yeah it was still it was still like tons of vhs like when i started working at blockbuster maybe a year after i worked there that's when dvds started like getting bigger and got to the point where we were just getting dvds instead of VHS. But that didn't last for very long because it fucking went bankrupt and closed down a couple of years later. Because at that point, that's when Netflix started. Because Netflix started as a mailing DVD service where you subscribed and they would post you DVDs to watch. And when you'd finished, you sent them back.

And only once you'd sent them back would they send the next lot out. So you made a wishlist of films, like here are the 20 films I want to see. And they would send you some that they had. So it was like, it was cool because you got this post, you're like, oh, what is it? What is it?

Yes. And you know, you'd got that film you wanted to see. You'd watch it and you'd quickly send it back to get the next thing on your list. It was great. Like it was really... Do you remember... It was so great.

Do you remember like, did you ever have like Columbia House and all that kind that kind of stuff you know where you'd buy like you could get like 12 cds or tapes for free but then you were in a year contract where you had to buy one like every month you like you had to buy one every month no i know i mean i i think the novelty wears off quick but i think the psychology of that is actually really powerful. The whole going to some physical place and putting your tape in the mailbox and then getting another one through the door and opening it up, that whole process is so much different to Netflix

where we have everything available to us all the time, but we don't want to watch any of it, and none of it's exciting. Isn't it bizarre? Yeah, you just become spoiled for choice. It's kind of like, I don't know if you guys remember those. They were like illegal game cartridges you could get for like Nintendo. And I think they had them for Super Nintendo as well, where you'd like plug it in.

You put it in, but it would have like, I don't know, like a hundred games on it or whatever. But they weren't translated or anything. were just like all japanese or or whatever but i remember like borrowing one off my friend thinking oh man like a hundred games i can't believe it and then i i would play like maybe five of them for like two seconds and then just move move on like because you just become so spoiled for choice that you just don't even care anymore it's just like yeah there's it's's not even exciting. Like you said, you're just like, whatever.

100 games. But also if they're all crap, you're like, oh. I'm like that with my Steam library now. I got all these games. I don't want to fucking play any of them. It's just like, I've got like 600 games in my Steam library and I could care less. Like half of them I haven't even played.

Honestly, like for me, it's been about looking at top lists, like top ten lists of movies, top ten lists of games, but also some other top ten lists of books and things like this. And I've been sort of working my way down these lists, and I've actually found a lot of joy out of that, just sort of ticking off, like, okay, there's these top five sci-fi books that I've never read, and I've been going through them.

Some of them are fucking super out of date. Bodega's still available, second edition. Nice. Big inspiration. And actually reading these sort of, it makes me realize how you obviously have read some of these classic sci-fi novels. How much you ripped off to use in your own book.

Gives me a context. It's good. This very retro thing, VHS, is that I remember, one thing I remember is that they would sometimes get a little bit, you know, glitchy and blurry and sort of, you know,

like that classic thing when a bit's coming up where there's either nudity. You get like audio warping and stuff like that, yeah. Where people have clearly paused it for a while. What about please be kind,

rewind the stickers? Yeah. You had to, that was the thing when you had to return when it was time to return your vhs tape back to the video store uh you had to rewind it like or you were considered i think some places actually find you yeah if you didn't rewind that they would open the box to see if the tape was in there because man there's nothing more annoying than getting home and

wanting to watch debbie does dallas um in the case and realizing that hang on this fucking asshole and didn't rewind it. It took a long fucking time. Like, joke, man. Yeah, we wasted a lot of time. Oh, my God. Just waiting for shit to rewind. Like to save batteries on my Walkman. I used to put a pencil through the hole of the tape and spin it. Yeah, that's what you used to do. If you put a pencil through the the hole and span it that would have taken you ages well sometimes you had to do that if you're um car car stereos were the worst for eating tapes right but walk some walkmans were

really bad too especially if they started running out of batteries oh yeah they grind slower and then they'd start eating up your tape oh my god that you know what? That sounds like such a trendy man thing to do, right? You can see a guy with his Walkman getting the tape out and then getting a pencil out and just walking along the street, rewinding it slowly. That's such a... It's that physical...

Again, it's that physical action. It's part of the reason why Tom and Barry still smoke. And I'm like, why do you smoke? Come on, it's 2020 like no one is smoking now like vape or something i don't know like get with the times and they're like well they don't smoke that much but they also like the physical action of actually rolling a cigarette they find it quite like soothing and calming and like the physical thing part of the reason that people like playing cards for real or rolling dice for real whereas when you do it on digitally it doesn't feel you know you're detached from that physical interaction that physical interaction is such a

big part of like that experience um and it's why board games in person are so much more better than them digital you know because i don't know like it's hard for a game to even replicate that action of rolling a dice and satisfaction yeah yeah although i do note that tabletop simulator has the one thing i really like to do when a board game is clearly over and you can flip the table in tabletop oh yeah no that is absolutely great i mean that is the opposite that's like an enhancement i mean that's something you can that's the wish fulfillment that's why at truck stops or like petrol stations or like um these these places they have these that gta based trucking games so a trucker can just drive like a madman go drive off the road

and then realize get it out of their system you know because sometimes i think when your truck i i assume i don't know i've never had to do a long haul trucking but sometimes i think when you're driving along a straight road for 12 hours or whatever in america you're just going to want to be like i fuck it what what would happen if I just drove off the road right now? I don't know if anyone would ever do that, honestly. No, I don't think people would do, but I think they get that stupid little idea in their head of what would it be like, you know?

Sure. And what would happen? Probably shitty, I guess. I think you could probably think that. It'd be really shitty. Certainly catastrophic. But then really bad. But it might just pop into their head like,

I could just turn this wheel. Like the idea of the crazy trucker who's got white line fever and you know his eyes are bloodshot and he's hopped up on amphetamines or meth or whatever the hell he's hell he's taking is i could just turn this wheel when he sees a car coming the other way but they don't always reminds me of that i can't remember that quote someone absolutely someone famous and much smarter than me and i've i always i remember that quote someone actually someone famous is much smarter than me and i've i always i remember that i remember the quote but it was it was that sort of you know mankind advances it might have been me who was providing safe outlets for their animal

urges you know so so you know like violent video games are you know a way to like satisfy yeah that's why nowadays the world is such a chill place. Well, comparatively it is, though, really. It provides a way to get your frustrations out. People are raging at Dark Souls and not raging at their mum. They still are, though. Not everybody plays. I don't know.

A very small portion of society plays Dark Souls. I think I'm positive, generally, about video games. Oh, I'm very positive. I very positive about this stuff and about like these types of things i think it's a good i'm generally positive about the world i think i think the internet is this scary thing by the way just before we go off this topic i noticed that there was like an uptick apparently i saw a news article that because of the coronavirus and all this like pandemic stuff yeah people have been watching world war z and contagion and all these zombie movies like like i love the idea that people are like oh the coronavirus isn't that exciting let's let's watch zombie movies you know what i wonder if it's necessarily i don't know if it's necessarily that they're watching them or

maybe netflix is promoting them because they're thinking this is what people want to see they're all scared of viruses. We'll get some more plays out of these. No, but I love it. Do you know what? Like part of, I mean, I'm terrified about, you know, this stuff as much as anyone is, and it's very serious. You should be careful, blah, blah, blah.

But I do think it's like a little bit of a tingle of like excitement that like people are, you know, there's zombie viruses out there. You know, I can see why people are. Man, there's a fucking billion viruses out there. Like, I mean. Oh, you're right. Yeah, absolutely. It's not, it's not scary, is it? Like, like, like a couple of hundred people have died. Yeah. But you got to remember too, that like this, this originated in a place with like, terrible fucking hygiene, terrible fucking standards to do with like the preparation

of animals uh for consumption and everything and it's like i don't know i i don't know what fucking people expect like like of course shit like this is gonna get out and spread and stuff like if people are just being fucking um not good about staying clean and hygienic if people are eating like I mean if you're eating like a fucking rat's ass well yeah

you're probably gonna get sick you know like realistically it's not even like eating a rat's ass it's like having

like on the counter of a convenience store you know it's like a little impulse buy a whole tray full of like deer

deer heads or whatever do you mean like fucking what all like are like deer livers it's like weird fucking shit like oh yeah just pick up a snack pack of 15 deer livers and i get what i get that once it's contracted it can it can spread and everything and they gotta they gotta be careful like i mean like a couple hundred people dying is uh is is is pretty bad but i mean i just i don't want to seem... I don't want to seem culturally insensitive over this either, by the way, but there's a bubble tea shop that I go to just up the road, and it's like a Chinese run play, it's a really nice place, really smooth, and they've got this big fridge, and well, half the menu's

in Chinese, so it obviously caters to the Chinese students and like the local sort of Asian population. It's great. Right. But they've got this massive sort of huge fridge. And in it is just you look at it and you're like, oh, my God. And it's like it's full of like like like be like beef, beef tongue. And, you know, sure. Pig pig kidney, like just just full of the most disgusting sounding meats. I don't think that you could think of.

And honestly, I don't think that in itself is at all a problem. As long as it's prepared, like in a clean environment. And so I think what's happening is that in a lot of places, like there's just a lot of complacency. You know, people probably aren't washing their hands as much as they should. People probably aren't like taking enough care with preparing some of this stuff um and then it's just inevitable that shit like this is going to get out and spread around you're right like that i think it's more likely to happen if people are if it's in the culture to eat sort of cheap

meats yeah i but not as a speaking as someone who's you know now a bit of an arsehole about that stuff, maybe I shouldn't be criticizing it. I think it's a worry if you're from that place, for sure. I don't think people should be eating rat asses, though, or biting the heads of bats and stuff. No, but I don't think people should be freaking out about this stuff either. They seem to. No, you're right.

That's the other thing. I think media has built this coronavirus up to be this vast threat. And I think people should take it seriously as well. But at the same time, I think that like... It's kind of the same thing with bird flu and SARS. Remember SARS and everything? And it's like... But you can't treat it seriously enough, really.

You should... People are gross. They're sneezing and fucking... Yeah, of course. I think everyone needs a fucking bit of advice on not to sneeze on their hand and then, you know, kiss someone with it or whatever. I don't know. Fuck. Whatever you're doing.

This is why when I use public transport, I try not to touch any of the poles. Right. That's a bit racist. Jeez. You should be touching them anyway. The poles. They're hard working. There's a dad joke for you. There's onecha jesus gotcha so no i i'm i just

like the idea that that's sort of do you reckon that stuff happens for other sort of things that people i don't know when it's of course it does i don't know when there's like a big murder murder spree going on people are watching a murder mystery yeah of course of course it is it's all people feed that kind of that i mean it's like part of our culture right like that we does it enhance the movie knowing that there's like a zombie apocalypse going on you know or you could like you could imagine it in your head like go to any bookstore and look at like the the categories for books and stuff the true crime section is massive and people have an appetite to read all of that stuff.

They want to hear all the horrible shit that happens. They're fascinated by it. They really are. So, yeah, every time something happens, like if there's a big earthquake or like the tsunami or whatever, I'm sure that disaster movies saw a huge uptick. Like it's just human nature right like i don't know we have these imaginations that do you get excited by it as well in a kind of

do you feel guilty about being excited by it do you see what i mean about what about disaster like i don't know about do you feel guilty about being excited there's a zombie virus going going on you know if there's i'm not excited about that though like uh so no i don't feel guilty about it because i don't it's not it's not something that interests me in the slightest like it hasn't prompted me to go and like i think some people are like eating their popcorn yeah like following it really closely and passionately and i don't know whether they should feel bad about that or not i don't think they should um i i think that it's just a part of it's part of who we are i'm old-fashioned like the new new series of kirby enthusiasm

started so i just oh i can't wait yeah there's two episodes out already it's good um i can't interesting i'll have to watch that it's very it's very themed around cancel culture this season so yeah oh is he is he a little bit politically incorrect kind of in modern terms like does he because some people are kind of quite unapologetically i don't think he's i think it's typical larry david in that it is massively exaggerated he uses things like i know one of the things he does is if he doesn't want to talk to someone he or he wants to piss people off he puts on a maga hat right now obviously in california that's like a oh my god you know it's like that that's really yeah yeah he avoids like a lunch date with a guy he doesn't want to have a lunch date with

another really funny thing this season is that he he has like an altercation with this guy called mocha joe who runs a coffee shop uh and he decides that he he is he's he doesn't like the way that mocha joe operates he's got wobbly tables and his coffee is cold and all this stuff uh so he he leases the place next to mocha joe's he's gonna open up his own spike coffee shop to put mocha joe under fuck me oh i love that that is such like a sweet sweet revenge thing that like yeah you dream about being able to do that stuff right absolutely like if you were opened just chips a competitor to just chips called not only chips or not just yes and that you sell chips and one other thing yeah nuggets nuggets yeah the thing with larry david is like and like

the formula of the show is that no matter what he does he he seldom gets away with anything right yes he never wins yeah something always comes back to bite him in the ass and it's and sometimes those are very intricately uh drawn out or whatever and sometimes they're like immediate but it's just it's just like the charm of the show right it just makes it but i also like sometimes he does get a win yeah and when he does it feels great right like it's very funny there's like this i mean one of my favorite episodes the the end to the episode is one of the funniest things he's in this this toilet like in the men's room and he's hidden something down the front of his trousers and this child comes in

and he talks to her and he gives her a hug and she feels the hard thing in the front of his trousers it's just like a pen or a torch or something and she looks down and runs out and she says to her parents larry david hugged me in the bathroom he's got something hard in his trousers and all you can hear is the entire room of adults going, Oh my God! And he just jumps out the bathroom window, and that's the end of the episode. And I mean, he's not commenting. He's not making some clever social comment. But that kind of thing is like your worst nightmare.

Yeah, he's just thinking, what would be the worst thing that could happen? It's like, what is the most awkward nightmare that could possibly happen to me? And there's no way to explain it. Nobody's going to believe him. No, there's no way out. Exactly. You run into these things in real life, like occasionally you're like,

sometimes they're close to happening. You're like, oh, fuck. Can you imagine if this happened? And that's what Curb is really about, isn't it? And it's setting up those... It's that exaggeration and almost like the worst possible scenario thing. Yeah. The way that he's... But it's well it's saying it is it's that it's that exaggeration and like this almost like the worst possible scenario thing like yeah the way that he's it's still realistic though you can

still almost see it could happen yeah the way that he's commenting on like sort of by the cancel culture and stuff is that you know is his manager jeff green uh has lost like a bit of weight and he's like a little bit more like uh not not so, not so clean shaven. So he looks like Harvey Weinstein. Yeah. And a couple, a couple of times in the show, women are like, Oh my fucking God,

why is that fucking monster here? And he's like, what the fuck is Jeff? Like, it's so fucking funny. So the funny thing is, is my mom had watched a few episodes of Curb Your Enthusiasm and thought that was Harvey Weinstein. It looks just like him. Oh my God. Because he really does look like yeah it looks like him same build same sort of like big face

and everything like it's i just thought it was so funny because she was like he's in that kirby enthusiasm which i was like no mom no they're two complete different people so there's like so there's that prop element to it that sort of like solidifies like his wrongdoings you know what i mean it's like every time anybody accuses him of something he's like no no come on it was innocent it was innocent and then they see him with jeff and then they're like oh fuck no it wasn't like you're you know you're an asshole you hang out with harvey weinstein um but like it's just like it's just funny stuff right like he goes on a date with this woman and like he has he

videoed like he he gets his phone and records his advances so he's like very very like like procedurally asking her if it's okay for him to put his hand on her shoulder and then can he like kiss her and stuff and she's like agreeing to it and then he's like basically like can i fondle your breast and she's like no he's like all right it's a no and i'm fine with that it's like all captured on tape it's fucking so funny it's awkward as hell to watch too but i mean that's part of the charm of the show i don't find it as um as cringy as i thought i would like i still find it i don't know why it is it's because he's such a he's such an unlikable character but at the same time there are times when you you were really

rooting for him because some of the people he comes across are so fucking unreasonable and obnoxious like everybody is he is half the people he bumps into are they're all very unpleasant apart from like a few people but yeah they all jump to conclusions they're very judgmental you know it's like some of the stuff he's like this is perfectly reasonable and other people see it not that way like i love the episode where there's the soldier and they all say thank you for your service thank you for your service and larry's like hi nice to meet you like why couldn't you thank him for his service larry and it's like becomes a big thing where he feels i don't have to thank him you know he didn't do it for me and all this kind of stuff. It was really funny.

Exactly, exactly. He's got a finger on the pulse of kind of, why do I have to be a sheep? Why are people really saying that? And it's the questions that we've all asked in the back of our mind, but we normally just ignore or don't care. He's the guy who actually just challenges every norm

and just says, no, I don't want to do that. Why should I? Explain it to me. And I respect that. Yeah, and most people's response is, you just have to. He just says, no, I don't want to do that. Why should I? Explain it to me. And I respect that. Yeah, and most people's response is, you just have to. He's like, well, no. A bit like you and your personal trainer, Lewis. That's the essence of stand-up. At least his generation of stand-up. Do you know what I mean? Like the kind of

commenting on why we do things. Yeah, like observational sort of humor. Yeah. Like the classic social commentary and stuff. I mean, that was where he came from, I guess. Yeah, it's not highly political, though, which is interesting. All right, so here's a question. Here's a question for you guys about stand-up comedy.

So I've watched quite a few episodes of comedians in cars getting coffee, the Jerry Seinfeld thing. Oh, yeah, sure. Which I really like. I'm a big fan of stand-up comedy. And like a lot of the comedians, and he gets writers on and stuff like that and actors that are all funny some of them are not so good like i don't know why he got seth rogan on the only thing that puts me off about that show is that those some of those guys

just like uh rate themselves way too highly you know what i mean i get it i get it if you're like a you know jerry seinfeld level comedian like you know one of the most successful all time or whatever but i hate when they start like talking shop about it and like sort of saying like this is how it should be and like you're not really a comedian if you're not doing this blah blah blah and it's just like all right you know yeah so that was my exact point was that one of the conversations that they had was that being being a stand-up comedian is the hardest job in the world that was what they said now i i that that immediately made me think fuck off there are much harder jobs yeah but have you seen that consider this how many really successful yes yes how many really

successful stand-up comedians are there how many there's quite a few but really not in the same way most of them just turn up do a few gigs and they never really make it there is a very small group of people you would consider successful stand-up comedians that can like really do well like there are a lot more singers and and musicians than there are comedians comedian a comedian can't um hide behind a studio like a musician can sort of thing right like like a musician just teach it a musician can have support with like a like a like a studio band who might be exceptionally good uh which could make all the difference sort of thing a musician can hide behind studio technology as well like voice changing effects like all that kind of stuff

um you can like i mean like they've proven time and time again with like X Factor and Pop Idol and American Idol and stuff like that, that they can just manufacture these people out of nothing and make them successful. But a comedian has to be not only funny, but like personality, likable. They have to be intelligent, like fairly witty and stuff like that you know there's there's there's a lot of like masteries involved but also you couldn't just go to school and learn how to be funny no like if you think about it there are far more doctors

there are probably more there are definitely more surgeons brain surgeons in the world than successful comedians like you can if you're smart you can learn how to be a brain surgeon you can learn how to be a doctor i'm not saying it's not incredible i think you can train to be a comedian as well i don't think you can i don't i don't but i think you you'd only do it if you had some sort of natural base of talent to begin with because right i think you have to start very young yeah like these a lot of these famous comedians have been were funny they're funny kid at school i don't know do you know what i mean and they've they've always like been trying to make people laugh for their whole life

and and often like i can see where they're coming from like with the hardest job in the world because i think that certain personality types are not gonna sit well with the the career of doing the same material every night to a crowd who are going to boo you or not laugh at some of your jokes and and crafting that thing and working and trying to make funny jokes it's tough to be creative and come up with material and do it to a standard that is like enough to make a living off of and the risk and the so a little bit like being a being in any art form like being in a band or something or being in some something where you have to or doing arts that you have to then sell

i don't know it's like that's not for everyone it's not a safe career is it being a comedian there's no stuff to fall back on a lot of them they're like i had to work for like i mean see louis ck is a good example the dude wasn't young when he made it to the big time. He'd had years and years and years as a stand-up comic, working all kinds of shit, and then he suddenly became really popular, and then it all obviously fell apart. But the point is, he wasn't like a young guy when he made it.

Some guys like Eddie Murphy was successful from a very young age. Yeah, he was. He was one of the youngest successful comedians around and was a huge Hollywood star. But a a lot of them you know it comes it comes later in in life he had when they've honed the skills yeah and i think um i think i i think like in eddie murphy's case and maybe in other comedians cases as well is that if they're lucky enough to start from a young age and work clubs where more established people are working they'll almost take them under their wing and like sort of you know what i mean like with eddie murphy i

mean there are absolutely skills you had like you know richard prior like had a lot to do with eddie murphy and eddie murphy used to say that he thought that richard prior just didn't like him because it was kind of like the a sign that richard prior was like almost done sort of thing. It's like, oh, here's this new black comedian who is basically going to replace you, Richard. And he was like, oh, okay, cool. But like secretly like, ah, fuck this guy. I'm not ready to like give up my crown sort of thing. I think it's very hard for people to do that,

to come to terms with, you know, decline of their industry. Or, you know, when you're on top it's it's everyone you know being the big thing and then not being the big thing and someone's always going to be climbing and someone's always going to be rise as falling and it's i don't know like people people aren't it's not part of our culture or education to to learn to deal with this stuff or even like know where to start yeah you know or people don't even think they have to and so people have to come to terms with themselves often or and some people have a lot of support of their family and stuff and and other priorities you know like there's there's good examples in hollywood of

people at the top of their career dropping out to be with their family or something like that you know for sometimes 10 or 20 years or even dropping off the face of hollywood entirely and other people just never stop yeah you know even into their like 80s and 90s they're always doing stuff like christopher lee or something he's never gonna fucking stop is he jesus no he's not but i mean the dude's standards are so low yeah like yeah it's like you can always buy it literally the lowest he'll do anything well that was a tax thing though right too he had to like he, like, in trouble and had to, he didn't have any money. He went bankrupt.

So he had to just do some quick work to get back in, get paid for his mortgage and stuff. He'd been doing shit for a very long time. But the weird thing to me is there are some actors that seem to have this really great career ahead of them, and it just, they stop being in stuff. Yeah. Like, I watched a thing about ed norton the other

day ed norton uh american history acts yeah he was the incredible hulk fight club fight club and it felt like ed norton was in a lot of stuff ed norton ed norton ed norton and then the last thing i can remember seeing him in was birdman he was he was playing a part in that as an actor who's a complete shithead to work with yeah and that's not that far from the truth because it turns out he's kind of a prick and a lot of people like i'm never fucking working with that guy again because he's extremely particular about the way he does things he wants to rewrite scripts and he wants it to have he changes his lines a lot and just says no no no i'm not doing that it's got to be this way and everything and that's it like people just won't work with him i mean there

must be brendan frazier is a classic example of a guy who was in a lot of stuff and everybody knew Brendan Fraser and then all of a sudden, the dude's not in anything. Like, he's just fucking done. Like, that's it. And it must be terrifying as an actor, especially if that kind of actor... Did he get blacklisted or something?

No, he just... He made a couple of really shitty movies. Yeah, I think he just was in too much stuff and, yeah, I just don't think he got many more sort of big opportunities after that the thing is he goes i think any any actor that pitches themselves as the lead whether it be a leading man or a leading leading lady in a in a film if you can't pull off lead anymore and you're not a box office draw you're done yeah like it's a real gamble like if you pitch yourself

as i mean brennan frazier you know lead man in quite a few movies and if he's no longer the lead man he's no longer a box office drawer but he's still going to want to be quite high up on the billing he's going to want to be front and center on the poster he's going to want this he's going to want that and studios would be like well no we don't need you we've got this other guy and people like him so we're going to cast him so then you need to be able to step back and say All right, I'll just be support roles. Yeah, but people gonna be like, oh shit. It's Brendan Fraser Didn't he used to be a leading man?

So it's like this whole yeah Like if you see someone who used to like if Tom Cruise only popped up in cameos now Very occasionally in some weird movie you think what the fuck happened to Tom Cruise's career But instead Tom Cruise is the guy Tom Cruise is like at the top of the course his face He still gets really big roles and stuff. Right. So he's positioned as a lead. He could never go back to just being a supporting actor.

I think that's about where, again, it's about where they've been, right? If they're going from something big to something small, sometimes that's even framed as just a passion project or like, oh, this famous guy is doing something he really wants to do. Even if it's like a small independent movie or something weird, you just think, ah, that's just something that he's interested in. They talked him into it or something.

Or maybe he knows the guy. Sometimes we assume it's like, oh, well, God, look at what Nick Cage is being forced to do. I think the only way back and this is true this is especially true uh for women is that if you've been like the either the lead woman in the in the film like as the normally in hollywood it'll be like the love interest or whatever you you then have this 20 or 30 year gap where you're no longer considered like i mean do you remember what's her fucking name renee russo rene russo sure yeah right

so she was in one of the lethal weapon movies yeah she was in a bunch of films yeah as like the hot woman who's like the love interest and then she's just kind of not in stuff for a while because she's not old enough to play the older maternal wise woman but she's not young enough to be loving yeah that's the. That's the thing with women, right? They, it's like, it's,

it's harder for women, I think in Hollywood, because the types of roles that they play and stuff, you know, like they, yeah, you do hear this a lot. They're either,

they're either young and like hot and all the magazines want to do like bits on them and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Or they're like, um, Judi Dench, you know what I mean? i mean like right uh exactly there's no in between there's no there's no roles in between that where they can

like really sort of um you know make a make a gigantic like uh right not once they've gone down that down that route of being the the i can yeah because if you look at someone like meryl streep say meryl streep's career has been pretty fucking good the whole way yeah because she's she's an actor first and foremost she's not she's she's she there may be romance in the film but it's not like she's on there because people can go oh fuck yeah meryl streep i want to go see her tits she's meryl streep you know what i mean you're admiring her because she's a great actor yeah and she she picks the right parts i mean megan fox whatever, she can't act for shit. I just want to see her tits.

This is it. Honestly, you see it. James Bond gets older every... The same James Bond, Daniel Craig gets older every episode, but his girlfriends or love interest in the movie stay the same. Leonardo DiCaprio is...

I mean, the movie version of it. He's like 55 now, but he won't date a woman over 25, because he's just like constantly uh recycling new ones yeah ricky gervais made a joke about him about and about the golden gloves being like too long it's like oh this it's like three hours long and uh and by the time it's over leonardo dicaprio's girlfriend will be too old for him or something like that it's pretty funny that kind of stuff is really true like you know you see it in hollywood remakes

where they get the same actors back but obviously but in in many cases it's like you know i don't know harrison ford coming back but you know his his his love interest of the original movie is now like 60 years old and it's like well we can't can't have him kissing her we gotta find someone you know a bit younger it's not like for example daniel craig's not kissing you know judy dench is it i reckon they should like i reckon they should do that though i reckon they should just put turn on its head i don't think they should do that i wouldn't watch that let's just let's just have some realistic relationships in these things i don't even really want to watch daniel craig kissing somebody young either though like uh i just don't really want to watch daniel craig full stop like i don't care what he's doing. The problem is Hollywood has this sort of responsibility to set the tone, right?

And often, like, it doesn't do a good job on this thing. If it normalizes kind of old guys kissing young women, that's how we get Donald Trump being normalized kind of thing with his, like, you know, young wife kind of thing. Like, it's kind of a bit, people are just cool with it because of Hollywood being so legitimizing it. I don't know. Hollywood has this role as a trendsetter and a ground level cultural influencer where it's like, this is what our society is like.

And a lot of things, like I've been watching a couple of YouTube channels about this. There's one of them popped up on Reddit last week about like the double standards of um like male uh sexual assault in movies you know if if like a if like a school kid is like with the south park and lots of people have talked about it before but like if a school kid is like you know a teacher a school a school a school boy and a teacher are getting it on the school boy is like oh well done high five you know whereas like if it's a school girl a teacher it's like completely you know demonized and

terrible you know there's this double standard then and hollywood kind of has helped to perpetrate that to some extent um we don't necessarily see men being taken advantage of by women you know it's almost like the men always want it or you or that somehow it's good and they're like, oh, you should be happy to get this. And obviously in many cases, it's not a good thing. It's not cool. And then people were not... If you're not consenting to this stuff, it can be very dangerous. But Hollywood has had a history of making you know it's certainly prison rape is a good example as well like we it's like so prevalent in Hollywood that we I mean I always I mean and part of it is that you know don't go to prison or else you get you'll get raped by a man it's like

whoa okay I I never want to go to prison because I don't want to get raped by a man but it's almost understood that that's like a ground level like if you're going to go to prison you're going to get raped by a man and so maybe in in prison, the prison officers are like, yeah, do you know what? There's a bit of man raping going on. It's all kind of cool. We allow it. Like because of Hollywood,

like, I don't know. It's, it's, do you see what I'm saying? Like the whole, the whole undertone. I kind of follow your point. Yeah, no, I don't. But like, but, but like the videos,

like even like dropping the soap and stuff has become this thing, which is even in kids movies like like there's like toy story and like spongebob are making jokes wait wait wait there's a drop in the soap drop the soap joke in toy story yeah there's they're everywhere they're like absolutely so prevalent like yeah but they're in all that's because in kids tv and and kids cinema and stuff, the good studios make movies that not only appeal to children, but they have very subtle adult humor in them as well. That's true, but I just find it weird that that's in there.

It is, but a kid would never be able to know what it is. That's true. Until they're old enough. And I will say this about the whole the whole drop the soap thing is the idea that just dropping the soap like that's it like you drop the soap you better pick it up wow that's it they're raping you well exactly they have to wait for you to drop the soap before they're like well if he drops that soap i'm going in otherwise you know wait wait lar, Larry, back off. He dropped a comb. That's not soap. It's a comb. It's not soap.

It's not soap. It is a Larry David thing, which makes you just pause for a second and be like, was that a prison rape joke that I just watched? Is that actually cool? Is that actually still, should I be laughing? You know, I mean, it's a little bit like you're a sheep, though. You're just laughing along. You're just, you know, saying to the soldier, thank you for your service again.

You know, is it something which we should be kind of more aware of now? It's like an in-joke sort of thing, right? Like, because you grew up in a time where, like, that joke was made or it was popularized. And 20 years later, the joke is made again in some new way or some subtle way or whatever. You're like, oh, yeah, that's familiar to me. Ha ha, I'm laughing sort of thing. It doesn't actually make it funny, but it's just what it is, right? So what are these people saying, that we shouldn't laugh at that or we should feel bad for laughing at that or question ourselves more or something? I think you should just be more sensitive to what you're joking about like i

think that if you continue to perpetrate a stereotype that is you know that if you go to prison as a man you're going to be raped um like it's it's a dangerous thing because it has this massive broad effect on society that you are trivializing male, you know, abuse and you are laughing at men who are more feminine or more, you know, for being inferior. Did you get recommended the same video I did that pointed out that there are an awful lot of instances in Hollywood movies where women sexually assault men and it's seen as like a kind of a jokey thing. Yes that's the one I'm talking about. So I watched that and there was a scene in there I think it was Mindy is her name Mindy Kaling she was in the office she was Kelly in the office the annoying secretary. She's the writer

as well. Yeah she's one of the writers for sure. So there's a scene I think James Franco passed out and she kisses him while while he's passed out and he wakes up he's like oh help but she's like sure shut up it didn't happen all this kind of stuff and the interesting thing is if those roles were reversed we would be like this is entirely inappropriate i mean if the if the male hero of a movie was sexually assaulting uh the female lead in the movie it would be seen as like holy shit what the fuck? How did this get made? But it does happen a lot. There is a scene in Horrible Buses

where Jennifer Aniston rapes one of her employees and it's played for laughs, like it's a comedy. So it is weird, like you said, how it's seen as something to joke about. And I just think a lot of the time, these movies are not written by younger people. They're written by older people. and you see the same jokes popping up and the same references popping up And it's just I mean, I'll give you an example

I was watching The Simpsons with my kids and if you look at the first few series of that It was made in the 90s bear that in mind like mid 90s. These episodes were coming out There were references to like things that happened 20 30 years. Yeah, of course the yeah but i'm thinking these writers are older guys they are who is getting these references like these aren't written really for the audience they're like so i think the same thing happens in hollywood by the time you get established by the time you're like the lead writer on a big movie and everything or a big tv show whatever you're older so your references are going to be older and your attitudes are going to be simpsons was designed for primetime tv and i remember when it came out it was everybody wanted to watch it like kids oh yeah kids especially but it had at lots of adult humor in it that kids just didn't

understand the references or whatever but they still loved it like it's one of those it's it's it's that formula right pixar does it really well like lots of one of those, it's, it's, it's that formula, right? Pixar does it really well. Like lots of, lots of studios do it really well where they, they can appeal massively to children and make this thing that children just want to have, or, you know, call their own or whatever, but it just has lots and lots of adult humor in it as well. That's subtle enough for kids to not pick up on it but it makes it uh entirely not tedious for you to have to sit through two hours of it with your kids sort of yeah you know what i mean simpsons is no different yeah it's very clever it was on you know it was on early

like it was usually on at like 7 30 8 o'clock at night so like yeah if you were 10 11 years old you were staying up to watch it like easy oh yeah yeah and like and you did we didn't have cable so i couldn't it was the popular thing you didn't go to school the next day and having not watched it or else you know what i mean like and i mean i i think it's hard like you look back at 20 30 years at these things and they are a product of their time and they're a product of the people who wrote them and we're a product we're not that smart we're a product of our cultural indoctrination if you like you know we've been brought up with things in a way that is that we find acceptable or not acceptable and sometimes we have to stop now and say okay maybe we shouldn't

be making jokes about this but sometimes you don't even realize i don't know if the joke sometimes is about that though that's what i like like i i can see the comedy in reversing a role like uh like like oh you, the context of that is sometimes maybe not amazingly well thought out or whatever, but there is definitely an element of comedy to role reversal, right? And sometimes the way to bring attention

to these role reversals is to satirize it, is to do an extreme example where people are like, oh, shit, yeah. Because in South Park, the way they did it was very much like aware. It was like, you know, because I think Kyle or someone goes to the stand, goes to the police and is like, you know,

there's a guy in my class who's seen one of the teachers and they're like, nice. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? It's very much like, it's very cleverly done. And so, but I mean, I don't think that we should like cancel comedy that we love because the writer or guy who did it turns out to be an asshole

or have views that we don't agree with. I think there is a lot of that, like a lot, for example. Comedy works best when it's on the very edge sort of thing. Like, you know we do find yeah like upsetting things sometimes quite funny and especially if it's presented in a clever way or like uh you know the it's it's it's odd isn't it like i think i think it's easier to watch comedy when you're not like uh affected by any of the stuff being discussed right and it And it's probably a lot more difficult when you, when you, when you take it more personally or are affected by the stuff that happens, you know, like I can laugh at a prison rape

joke because I've never been raped in prison. I've never been to prison before. So sure. You know, it's not the funniest goddamn thing I've ever heard, but like, whatever, like, like there's a whole, that whole segment of uh norm mcdonald on uh on that youtube channel and just the prison rape jokes from saturday night live and like his earlier stuff yeah honestly his stuff is they're fucking like he does he does that a lot where yeah he pushes the line but he does it because he knows he's gonna get a response it it it is funny his

delivery is amazing it is is very funny. Exactly. I don't want to devalue like that. A good comedian will make you laugh at jokes. And you can still enjoy stuff. I think that... Okay, a good example is like J.K. Rowling. And actually, for example, someone tweeted me this week saying,

you should unfollow Graham Linehan, who wrote like Father Ted and Black Books and stuff. And I think when i signed up to twitter about 10 years ago i automatically followed a lot of people who i was a fan or thought you were jimmy carr and bill bailey writes a show that you like no because i want to see funny tweets on twitter from them you know i want to i like father ted i want to see his funny tweets you know and someone tweeted me and said you should unfollow him um because he's done a load of anti-trans stuff and commentary and i i was like do you know what i don't think i've i i will i'm just gonna unfollow him i don't think it's worth the trouble he's i don't i don't

think that this guy particularly is obviously like i but it's a little bit in my head though i'm a little bit like oh father ted's now a bit tainted like harry potter's a little bit tainted by you know the thing is okay fine you've unfollowed him you've unfollowed him off the suggestion of somebody but you haven't you haven't unfollowed him for like the pure reason right you've just unfollowed him because it's like it's still tough in my head to rationalize pressuring me and i don't want to be seen as somebody who agrees with what this guy might have said even though i haven't looked into it that's what cancel culture is exactly i still think the main thing the main thing to do is if i mean first of all i don't want to know graham lenehan i don't care what his opinions are

i want to see something on twitter that's even remotely funny and related to father ted great that's why i followed him in the first place because of father ted you know what i mean like yeah i mean also twitter is real easy to be as puritanical as you like about whatever it is you believe in but i guarantee you even people you know really well there'll be something some opinion that they hold that you think what that's fucking bizarre like i can't get my head around that's weird that you are you going to stop seeing that person because there's something you disagree with them about? I don't know. I know lots of people whose politics are wildly different from mine or their opinions about all kinds of stuff are wildly different from mine. It doesn't change the fact that they're essentially a decent enough person that I can be friends with them.

I just think it's not worth analyzing with a microscope every single aspect of a person's personality because no one is clean. No one is going to come out of it and you're going to be okay with everything they say. And I don't think they're evil if they have flaws like that

or beliefs necessarily either. I think it's that they're a product of their cultural teachings, like what they have been informed of over the years via media and Hollywood and books and people and friends and family and surroundings and locales. If you're brought up in a local small village in India, I'm sure you're going to hold views that are intolerant towards something. And who knows what that is or views that are reprehensible in other parts of the

world. If you're in China and you're eating deer noses, fucking go for it. That's part of your culture. I think it's very hard of me to criticise that because that's something which they are not going to change their view on very easily. I don't even think about a lot of my biases until I watch a video on YouTube that tells me, maybe you should question this thing. Being there's so, being a scientist is about questioning. It's about constantly analysing everything you believe. But there's so many aspects of things we believe from religion to politics to people to, and there's so many like grey areas too, so many grey lines that come down. Like, and each case is different.

You know, every, you could say, oh, you know, that this is good for society because maybe prison rape fucking, you know, that this is good for society because maybe prison rape fucking, you know, discourages people from committing crimes. Maybe the people are so scared of being raped in prison that they won't do crimes. Like, you know, everything has like this other fucking side to it that, you know, you can't, I'm a bit of a contrarian. I love to try and argue and see the opposite side.

And it's so hard to do that sometimes. And sometimes I feel like I've been taken, I've been blindsided and i've learned something i'm like damn why have i been laughing at prison rape jokes for like 35 years i feel like maybe i shouldn't but then it's tough it's really like it's really and so i what i'm saying is don't be too hard on yourselves if you find that your your your beliefs are challenged you know I don't hold a strong belief on that though. Like, you know, like, like I, if, if, if that offends somebody to laugh at that and they're around me or whatever, I would apologize. I would say, oh, sorry.

You know, like. It's not worth clinging to that kind of shit. I'm a reasonable person. I'm not, I'm not going to fight for my right to laugh at prison rape jokes. I just don't care enough. But equally, I'm not, I'm not going to falsely support like trans rights and stuff as well by unfollowing somebody on Twitter

because as much as I support somebody's right to be who they are or who they want to be and freedom and stuff like that, these are things that don't really affect me. I'm not going to be as passionate about them as somebody who is affected by it, you know, or living that life or whatever, you know what I mean? I think there's a lot of like,

almost like false support for movements nowadays just to appear sort of like politically correct or popular or something like that and i i don't agree with that either i you know i think people that are coming out and and being like overly sort of supportive about something that they have nothing to do with or whatever is is is is not it's not a genuine thing it's it's it's a lot you see that and you see that in hollywood yeah of course you do they cast something and it's like the cast is like you can tell they've they've fucking they've brainstormed the shit out of how to get the perfect cast for essentially for to avoid bad reviews on on twitter

and in the media sure it feels disingenuous yeah that's you know it's not from the heart no they haven't changed they're just going with the trends it is it's a it's it's some sort of formula for like popularity or for money or sales or something like that and it doesn't feel nice it doesn't feel good like like yeah we should be on top of that stuff too i wouldn't i think you should somebody to support uh me with with with just about anything really but like you know what i mean like it's i don't know like i i think i think just i think it's important to just be yourself and not get caught up in the in the hype of everything you know what i mean like just yeah like and don't be an asshole yeah that's a better there's this there's this fear though there's this fear that if you it's a very animal

thing it's that if you change your mind you're seen as flaky or if you're seen as like you're seen as like um it's it's like a good thing to hold a hold ground and be brave and stand your ground and defend your argument to the last yeah and sometimes you've dug that hole so much you're like fuck i've you can't change my mind now or else i'm gonna look like an arsehole do you wonder if they're clinging on in the hope that they'll eventually be vindicated as well? He was right and he said it all along. I don't know if it's that. You're just hoping one day things will swing in your favor. I think people seem to value, and it's that confidence.

It's that kind of authority of someone who is just blindly confident. For some reason, people value that. It is weird. And people are scared to change their minds or be seen to be changing their minds. And you know what? No, but that's the opposite. You should be willing to constantly bounce back and forth.

I feel like this podcast would be way better if I could actually articulate my thoughts in an intelligent manner and not just being a dope. And this is what I said at the very start of the podcast is that words are not enough like we we i think we need we need graphs that's this week's that's this week's theme is the song more than words prepared speeches that are finally honed and crafted to not not not because but a lot of time people get the wrong end of the stick from this podcast they're gonna think lewis said this sentence and people are gonna take it out of

context and it'll and it'll mean something which is the opposite of what i meant yeah i know i think it's a very complex topic i i i i i do my best i i'm i i think i'm a reasonable person i don't think i'm overly offensive to any one person or group of people i i don't have hate in my heart for anything other than people who are sweaty at overwatch and other competitive games no you know what i mean like i'm not going out of my way to like spread hate or to spread misery or whatever i think i'm like a pretty easygoing uh you know happy-go-lucky sort of sort of person and a live and let live yeah and i think i i think or live and let die i think that's that's enough

i don't feel like i i need to do more than that you know what i mean james bond kissing judy dench next bond movie let's just get it i don't want it she died in one of the previous movies what not my little let's bring her back fuck it bring her back as a bond girl not my little judy i reckon she could rock she comes out of the sea in a bikini one of those big onesie old lady bikinis and james bond cracking a boner right there on the beach the 1920s where it's like where she's got one of those dressing screens and stuff she's 85 guys holy shit oh man can't be i it's it's it's tough nowadays isn't it's tough it feels like you have to constantly just say the right things and and not and and not say the wrong

things or whatever and i think that like i think it's a shame in some ways you know i think there's i think it's a lot of in in some ways a lot of like censoring like unnecessarily too i do wonder if people are as sensitive um as as the current culture would imply they are i think people are tougher i do think we should definitely work towards not excluding people with language and stuff like that, because it must be pretty shitty to constantly feel less than everybody else because of things that people are saying casually as just like part of all, that's just a thing that happens. And we talk about stuff in movies as informing public opinion and stuff like that. And I think everyday language and everyday attitudes do as well.

But I don't think that we need to be quite as eggshell, you know, sort of treading as we are in regards to people. Most people, that's the other thing to remember. Most people on the planet or even in whatever country you're in, just don't give a shit about this kind of stuff. They don't have a strong opinion one way or the other.

Most people I find have a pretty much live in that they've oh that's their business no problem you know i think yeah it's the specifics of going and telling someone you're not allowed to do a lot of the media that we that we consume a lot of the stuff that we read is very you're meant to believe that it's the vast majority speaking, but it's like anything, right? It's always- Yeah, I think most people understand that- It's always like a handful of people- Things are pretty decent. Things are going okay. Change takes time. I think a lot of the time, especially from, I mean, I consider myself a pretty progressive person in a lot of my personal views. People on my side of things,

as it were, want change really fast. And now and everything has to be exactly the way they want it. And public attitudes take time to change. They do change, but slowly. And I just think, yes, you know, it's all right to be impatient and look for change, but it doesn't have to happen overnight. As long as you can just gradually introduce ideas that everything is cool and maybe we can be nicer to each other and this is a this is okay and acceptable but it doesn't have to be like instantly you either do this or you're cancelled because all that does is is push get pushback and people think fuck you i don't you know people feel under attack that's what you want to get rid of so i i've always said for for a very long time that i feel like the ideas of the

left appeal to people at a base level, but we have the worst salespeople in the world. And we cannot sell our ideas in a way that appeals to people, even though sometimes they're in their exact interests. But we sell it as this, you've got to do this and almost like, how dare you? And you're wrong. And it's like, well, the right doesn't really do that. The right just hey even they make all these promises they lie and i'm not obviously not saying everyone on the right is a liar and everything but a lot of the current right-wing politics that you see and anti-progressive agendas and stuff um they make very easy promises which are we're with you and we're not going to tell you to change and these people are wrong that it's much easier easier- I promise I'm going to turn up to work most days. It's much easier to believe that you were already right, that you were right all along,

that you don't need to change, that this is some crazy shit rather than saying, hey, maybe we were wrong about this and we need to change. For the exact reason you said is people don't want to backpedal. They don't want to appear that they were wrong all along. It's very brave to come out and do that, even though it shouldn't be brave. I change my mind about stuff all the time based on new evidence. This is why scientists don't run the country because they appear as wishy-washy. They appear as, you know, we have theories.

Right. Because everybody says, oh, you should think the Earth was flat, scientists. Now they think it's round. They make up your mind. That's the whole point is that we changed. We figured it out. You know, and society should change in the same way. But instead it's seen as, oh, they can't say anything these days. And you just think, well, you can. You can say an awful lot of things these days. We're just asking gradually, and I would hope gently, some of these things are not cool to say.

But instead, everybody pushes back. Everybody's arguing and screaming at each other. Everybody wants everything to change overnight to their exact specifications, and you end up with a shit show. Why don't you like this podcast? Anyway, see you later. I'm uh just joking that was a good one uh man we ranted a lot today it was very ranty it was that was a ranty thoughtful to get off my chest i feel you know i don't know i just i've been thinking about this stuff and it's nice to talk to you guys every once in a while you have

to have a big blowout don't you just bear in mind that this was just a conversation between three people i'm sure if we listened on... Three old idiots who've watched a YouTube video. But if we listened on all of your conversations, I bet you say some dumb shit too. This is just an unedited splurge of thoughts and ideas and conversation. And just take it as that.

Don't think of it as some kind of manifesto. Yeah. Change the world. Vote for me. Raise up. See you guys next week. Love you lots. Thanks for listening. Bye. Bye, Change the world. Vote for me. Raise up. Bye. See you guys next week. Love you lots. Thanks for listening.

Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.