Triforce! - Triforce! #123: Twink, Twunk, Chicken or Bear

Episode Date: April 22, 2020

Triforce! Episode 123! Pyrion's lined up a fun quiz for us today! Can we identify all the different terms used in the gay community? Support your favourite podcast on Patreon: https://bit.ly/2SMnzk6 Music courtesy of Epidemic Sound. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Please play responsibly. Welcome to the Triforce Podcast! Woo! In the year 2323! Ha ha ha ha! The future is a bleak place. We wander the blasted landscape. I'm glad we survived! I'm glad we made it to the year 2323.

What kind of things can we look forward to in this? A quick death. Oh, nice. You have to play the theremin when you say that. Oh, sorry. Oh, let me get my theremin open again. It needs the backing under it. Ask me a question.

What's happening in the future? My theremin stopped working. Hold on. Oh, no. Why did this stop working? Troubleshooting issues. I'm not surprised. A future, Phil, that is the future.

I feel like every time they've had these expos, you know, the world... You're wrong! The future is controlled! The world expos. Do you know what I mean? Every time anyone has tried to show off the future or come up with futuristic ideas to do stuff, it's always gone wrong somehow, right? Everyone throughout history has always tried to predict the future and come up with these like the first time they ever tried to fly the plane remember it was like

a bicycle with wings attached on it and they were like they thought that was gonna work and then yeah it just crashed into a pile of garbage so interestingly i did read an article which was it was a they sort of, they had a paper from like 1910. And this guy had sat down and said, I'm going to try and predict, you know, this is the way things will be done in the future. And there were quite a few things that he was right about. There was a lot he was wrong about, but there were some things like people will be able to work via some kind of remote terminal. Like they will communicate with a typewriter and the message will be sent.

You know what I mean? They couldn't visualize. I mean, you couldn't imagine smartphones because they had nothing even approaching that kind of technology. But they understood you can look at stuff we do now and think there's a better way to do this. Wouldn't it be cool if?

I remember games. Didn't you remember when I was a kid, I remember playing games at my friend's house and thinking one day we'll be able to just do this. I'll be in my house they'll be in their house it'll work i don't know how like we had no idea what the system would be yeah there would be this whole network called the internet that was going to be constructed we'd all be on it like that was not a thing and the idea that i could be wirelessly onto it mind-blowing but you could

also imagine it if you were if you were a smart person i mean i have to see clogged didn't he come up with geosynchronous satellites? Wasn't that his idea? And everyone copied that? I'm pretty sure it is. What would have been more impressive is if in 1910, this guy was able to predict Overwatch porn. That would have been...

That would have been... Would have been something. Stunning. Yeah, I would have just been like, how did this guy do it? What would their equivalent have been? I don't know. Back then, it was like,

if you saw a lady's ankle, that was like, your load was have been i don't know like back then it was like if you saw a lady's ankle that was like your load was gone i think i don't know if in i don't know if i i think that was just the hoity-toity end of society that was ankle i'm pretty sure everybody else was just doing whatever the fuck they wanted and porn was a thing for sure i'm pretty sure one of the first films ever made was pornographic yeah i think a lot of uh they used to do like lots of drawings right and peep shows and shit pe lot of uh they used to do like lots of drawings right and peep shows and shit peep shows yeah they used to keep like um naughty naughty black and white sort of daguerreotypes or whatever they were called yeah that's right yeah hidden paneling under the look them up on the internet i mean if you want to if that's your your thing or whatever they're

yeah it's come a long way let's put it that way sorry so we were having a conversation i've noticed that my discord has become a place where a lot of people just hang out and chat because obviously i mean they've always done that but generally around playing games whereas now people are watching tv shows together and they're chatting on my discord and stuff like that like it's a real little community and i like that but one of the conversations we had the other day was about uh gay slang because one of my mods is a gay guy, and he's the go-to authority on, what is a bear? What specifically makes a gay man a bear? So he's gay, and he gave us the full lowdown. And I thought it'd be fun if we did a quiz, because like me, you guys are probably going

to be clueless about most of this Stuff so I've got a couple of tests for you guys that I've prepared ahead of time right so You each get a turn to answer each question. What what is a bear? This is quite an easy one Oh, right new stuff. What in gay sign if I think you refer to another man is everything in this gay slang Yes, so this is a this is a gay slang the gay slang quiz twink chicken cub twunk gay men i would imagine that i i don't know exactly what a bear is but i'd imagine that it would be somehow the dominant person in the sexual transaction or like just a big hairy gay man okay lewis uh yeah i think um it's definitely a kind of lewis knows already he's

is it more of a kind of i i don't want to be um rude uh but is it sort of a more of a type of gay man or sort of one of these sort of, I don't know, it is like putting someone in a box, isn't it? You can't ask questions No, so, just say what you think it is It's definitely, it's got claws he's got big teeth, he goes rawr! He might well do

So the description on the Pride website is, the bears, one of the oldest and largest subgroups of the gay community, bears are on the heavier side. They're muscular, beefy, chunky. They wouldn't dream of shaving their body hair. So they're covered in hair. They're big lads.

And they have a beard. And they exude masculinity. But they're apparently some of the kindest men you'll meet. Oh, cuddly. That makes sense. Now, here's a subgroup. What is a polar bear? Just an older bear whose hair has gone white, but still exudes masculinity,

but still is one of the cuddliest old silver foxes you've ever met. So like a polar bear. Geralt of Rivia. Yeah. Would he be a... Yeah. So what is... No, I don't think Geralt would be a...

He would... Well, we'll come to him later, but he would not be a bear. Okay. What is a cub? Oh, God. Is it a... A pre-bear, a bear-escent bear? Like a...

A pre-bear-escent bear. This is very accurate a baby bear as bears are typically older men the cubs are younger men who will be bears this isn't as difficult as i thought it was gonna be just wait it gets harder it gets harder okay it gets more difficult i should say right okay okay so here we go chicken slash twink slash twunk and I want definitions for each of those three. Chicken, twink, twunk. They're related, but there's a subtle difference between each. Right.

Right. But we know, we've heard of the twink most obviously. I think we've all heard of twinks, yeah. Right. Which is like a young, slightly effeminate. Yeah, slightly effeminate gay guy. Who is usually shaved and exactly um a bit a bit sort of old school gay a little bit flaunt flaunt flauncy flauncy you know i don't know that one i guess yeah sure yeah i guess not perhaps yeah yeah

maybe it maybe uses that um the stereotypical gay guy voice as well and doesn't care about it wants people to know he's gay right so a chicken is that is that what a chicken is then no no what is that that's a twink that you just described i think that was a twink okay what was the other one chicken twink and twunk twunk oh my gosh a chicken i'll help you out it's just a younger twink. Okay. Okay. So a younger twink is a chicken.

Then you've got twinks. Then you've got twunks. What's a twunk? What, just an older twink? No. Just like some ancient decrepit twink? No. Is it like your uncle?

Your uncle twink? Back in my day, I used to do cosplay as a mermaid and do ASMR. But now I'm too old. Is it like your gay uncle who helps you out and teaches you how to be a twink? No, it's a more muscular twink. So the example that Dave gave me was Justin Bieber was a chicken. Then he became a twink and now he's beefed up. He's a twunk.

Right. Has Bieber beefed up? He's a twunk. Right. What? Has Bieber beefed up? He's beefed up. Yeah. Oh, God. So here's the next one. An otter.

An otter. Yeah. Is somebody who's just covered in lube constantly? No, is this... I always think otters are slippery and like they look lubricated. I thought maybe that was just like a one for one. This man is just constantly constantly slathered in lube no it's not that no is it like in between the two between what two is it between the twink and the bear so it's like they have they they don't they're not fully shaved but

they're not like they're not like um but not they're-groomed, aren't they? This is exactly right. That is an option. They come in all shapes and sizes with all ages and all different kinds of facial hair, but they're not big enough to be a bear and they're not small enough to be a twink. So kind of medium build. They often trim their chest hair and manscape their bodies,

but they always have at least some hair. Right. Give me one second here. What is the, I i mean if we were to categorize ladies uh i was gonna come to that point after this i was gonna do that after this and i have an important question to ask all right trust me i've got this all planned out okay okay all right so good lord did that a wolf a wolf uh a very uh aggressively gay man maybe he's he's aggressively gay is it a gay man who preys on um a younger gay man and and eats them devours or or is he dragged back to his lair to feed his

family wait no but that's a bear right well okay a wolf is not it's not as big as a bear but i think it has something to do with insisting that they're not gay all the time, but they are gay. Okay, it's not that. So they're similar to an otter, they're somewhere between a twink and a bear, but the key difference is they tend to be lean and muscular and sexually aggressive. So they're sort of, you know, on the hunt sort of thing. So a wolf might be one that you would warn a twink careful that guy's a

bit of a wolf you know what i mean go for an altar ease yourself in anyway right otter otter's like a relationship whereas um no i know otter is a description of a person i think yes no all right yes absolutely right gym rat uh this is a fairly obvious one yeah that's the gay guy you see at the gym just all the time like he's obsessed with the gym well that is a term obvious one. Yeah, that's the gay guy you see at the gym. Just all the time. Like he's obsessed with the gym. That is a term that's not necessarily gay. I would have used that for other people. He looks like a young Dustin Hoffman, like a Ratto Rizzo, but is in good shape and goes to the gym all the time.

Constantly, exactly. A giraffe. This is a good one. A giraffe. A giraffe. A really tall gay guy. A very tall gay man. That's it. With a very long a very tall gay man i use that again these these last two i've used them for straight people um okay just casually like i find this weird because

i just don't i don't think of any people like even like gay straight no matter like i wouldn't describe anybody like like any of these no you're right putting put these categories it's unusual isn't it and they always they they do seem to sort of revolve around um like like sex in like either very obvious ways or loose ways as well right right i kind of like that after the quiz i kind of like it like if i was on a dating site you know and and i i'd you know i i was able to get more information than just you know if people were but right again just do the quiz and this is all part of the ongoing conversation just finish this for god's sake a pig a pig no one wants to define themselves as a pig uh so i guess that's something which is slightly derogatory. Is it a gay guy who doesn't take care of himself?

He doesn't groom, he doesn't look after himself. He's a slob. No, a pig is purely focused on sex, and they're often into the kinkier and perhaps seedier sexual practices. Right. That's a pig. That's a pig, okay. A chicken hawk.

A chicken hawk. So think back to what a chicken was. What might a chicken hawk be? Oh hawk. So think back to what a chicken was. What might a chicken hawk be? Oh, is it like a shark? Is that like a precursor to becoming like a wolf or something? No. Is it like someone who preys on young... Twinks.

Like fresherswinks. An older man who pursues chickens and twinks and twunks. That's a chicken hawk. Oh, right. So that's his type. And then that's pretty much it. The other ones I don't really understand. Right, okay.

Those are it. So that is a definer of what his type is. Do you know what I mean? Yes. He's into, it doesn't matter about their age, but it's about their body type that he's interested in. But there's body type, what they're into, perhaps a bit of their dating style, their personality, what kind of sex they're looking for.

So a lot of these will be on Grindr. So if you look on Grindr, it'll describe very simply, I'm a this, I'm looking for a that, bam. Right. And just like you were saying, I think it's a very male way of approaching dating, having a code, understanding, I pretty much fit into this

box and if i do i know what i'm looking for and that guy pretty much fits into that box obviously no one is precisely going to fit one of these categories but it's a vague idea and there are definitely really interesting you know i've seen guys that are definitely bears they fit the cat that would be the description and all right they might not be like a typical bear, but generally that's how you would describe it. Do you reckon people try- Twinks, you know, all that kind of stuff. Because obviously everyone is different and independent in their own way and wants to be. But do you reckon, and I don't know this, people, because of these categories,

try and fit more into them. They're like, I want to be, and do you reckon they can move as well? Can you change category? I guess you can. I mean, you can go from chicken to twink to twunk yeah presumably if you were an otter and it wasn't working out maybe become a bit more wolfy or you start off as an otter and you you know you end up end up as a wolf and then maybe later you become a chicken well maybe you can't change it though sometimes i guess some otters are just wolves because they um are more aggressive a wolf in otter's clothing yeah whereas i guess like sometimes you need to if you if you like the idea of a certain image or you're trying to meet the or you think that

that's something you'd like to be you can you know shave yourself a bit more and job done there you go but but i think it's interesting what you were saying about as as straight men if we were to categorize women as animals according to this very specific category and say i'm a this and i'm looking for that i think it would go down very poorly oh which is interesting because if if you were on tinder and we just had a heterosexual equivalent of describing who we are in animal terms like according to a very specific set of stereotypes and we're looking for a woman who identifies as one of these specific stereotypes i don't know if that would go down at all well in fact that would be it would be considered appalling yeah also i can't think of an animal that plays video games

so i mean maybe they're not all happy what are we what animal are we like apparently i'm an otter right no i think no apparently so you're like you're you're too bald you're bald you've got a twink head and otter body. I would say that you're more of a chicken hawk. I'm definitely not on the prowl for young men. No, every week you get two 30, 40-year-olds in here. That's the best. You're on the prowl for old men, for polar bears.

You're looking for some polar bears classic otter hairy chest but you know not have not hair everywhere but i'm not i'm not big enough to be a bear i'm not lean enough to be a twink or young enough i'm not a wolf so i have to have to fit into a group somewhere i think you're your own thing um like a naked mole rat the egg you're a naked mole rat that's what you are an a naked mole rat. An egg. That's what you are. An egg, maybe. Well, I mean, yeah. So like for, I suppose some of them do translate.

Gym rat, fair enough. Like I feel like you could, you could call yourself that as a straight guy. And I don't think people would blink, think that he was gay. Right. And I think that, and women could do that.

I think you could be a female gym rat, no problem. But I think that that, it feels like if it feels like if we're using terms like that, we need more. But then again, they'll just come naturally, won't they, in our conversation? I think people define themselves as introverts and extroverts. That's the thing that you see.

That's very broad, but it can give you a good idea of what kind of personality people have. And I don't know whether that is more useful because i guess in a sense a lot of these are physical appearance descriptors in the same way as blonde hair blue eyes you know hairy or not hairy but they're just sort of terms that are more fun i think aren't they i just thought it was interesting i just thought it was a really funny a really funny way of i mean and and if you look on Grindr, it is apparently just like that. Very list-based, very sort of targeted. This is what I am. This is what I'm looking for.

Yay or nay. Especially if you're a bear. You're like, you know, if you're a bear, you're like, oh, what should I have today? A salmon? Or should I have like a, you know what I mean? Should I have a hare? Which one do I want? Or, you know, today, maybe I hair which one do i want or you know today maybe i'll maybe i'll

go and like get a turkey or whatever it's like you gotta mix it up you gotta mix up your diet make sure you get all the good good stuff five a day sure it's like that gotta have a balanced diet definitely gotta have a balanced i guess if you're yeah i guess the wolves have the most balanced diet um of all i'm assuming but maybe they eat... But maybe they're not, like... Maybe they're not... Maybe these descriptors aren't enough to describe people. Of course they're not. But, I mean, for instance, I would describe myself as a nerd,

but that doesn't sum me up in one word, does it? Any more than calling someone a bear sums them up in one word. I just think it's interesting that this is definitively... You know, this is used. This is not, like, something that you definitively you know this is used this is not like something that you don't hear this is slang that that is actually used and apparently has a use yeah so i wonder how many like of these terms are like nerd for example i think on a dating app if you call yourself a nerd yeah that's just i think that's got a stigma as much as it used to no at all i think men um i

think men would be more scared to call themselves nerds than women would i think a woman calling herself a nerd doesn't feel like it would completely ruin her dating profile yeah i mean i think it would be very hard for a woman to ruin her dating profile with what she put in terms of the wording i think most men would just be looking at the pictures and thinking that looks great rather than thinking she looks fantastic and she's in the area and she's single but i don't know she put nerd you know what i mean i don't think that would really happen i wonder if this came about before sort of the era of pictures um you know before they sort of before grinder you know i assume that gays have been dating for 20 years or 30 years online at least on like um craigslist and other places before

grinder came along you think so but i mean also there was a lot more where there weren't pictures you know and so you needed that physical descriptor i'm science i'm science in it guys so it was also i think a lot more gay clubs and bars were were the scene because it wasn't i mean it's far more accepted now than it was even when i was younger so i think i think it's it's it's probably the online stuff is is a facilitator but i certainly think it's it has killed the um the gay bar and pub scene because they they just don't need their their own uh their own you own pubs to hide in anymore because I think people are more accepting. I would hope so.

Yeah. I mean, I found myself in plenty of places that were apparently gay bars, but were full of, you know, just normal people. Regular couples. Like, sorry. Do you know what I mean? It felt like people. I didn't mean it like that. We know what you meant, don't we? Well, you know what i mean like like it felt like um people people i didn't mean it like that you know what you meant um yeah well you know what you meant regular punters just not didn't realize it was um a gay bar at all or you know um and they were people

weren't being kicked out or you know women weren't being like sorry sorry love can't come in here or whatever but actually that's not the case because the gay bars cater to a lot of gay women as well i guess it i guess they never kicked anyone out i guess people must have found themselves in those bars accidentally all the time i don't know it's a very kind of tv show hollywood oh oopsie i mean like police academy where they go into the blue oyster i don't know if that ever happened on that running gag throughout like every fucking movie jesus christ i'm definitely out of my depth on this conversation i know very little i mean obviously we're completely clueless about this stuff. But it's certainly an interesting thing to have a look into and think. I mean, it's a very different world to growing up.

If you were gay, it would have been a completely different experience to growing up as just a straight guy. So I think it's an interesting glimpse into the way things apparently work for some gay people. But certainly the dating side of things fascinates me because it seems so simple it seems so much more pared down and efficient and simpler and transactionary and just like this is this is me this is what i want boom hit me up rather than the more complex sort of nature of well i think i think the role of the male of female was always different wasn't it men had to ask women out. You know, women were the, I've read this somewhere, I don't know if it's some bullshit,

but women are sort of the gatekeepers of sex and men are the gatekeepers of relationships. You know, so it's like almost like if you, women decide. I am the key master of Gozer. Exactly. I am the gatekeeper. That's it. So it's like when women decide when they get women decide when the man gets to have sex, but men decide whether that's going to turn into a relationship or not,

which is a strange dynamic, I guess. That is strange, yeah. But that's kind of part and parcel of that dating system. And it's really crazy to look at some of the stats on Tinder and see how it works. that dating system. And it's really, it's really crazy to look at some of the stats on Tinder and see how it works. And there must be that we know that there's wolves out in straight men, you know, too, because one of the things I saw on all these dating sites was that sort of 90% of the, the, the women are going on dates with like 10 or 20% of the guys, right? So it was always this,

um, top, the top 10 or 20 percent of guys are going on all all the dates so there must be a whole load of wolves out there just like um you know smashing their way through all the women just you know who they are you know who those guys are you know you've met before i mean they're the same guys who were dating all the girls at school and uni yeah there was a guy university we were then we'd go to the the uni bar or a club or something and there would be girls on him instantly instantly and it was like they were fighting over this guy and it was it was crazy and um he was just who you know if he met a woman and he wants to have sex with her she'd probably be up for it it was just that that was terrifying he was very it's not terrifying he was just very

tall and good looking guy i mean he just had just had, you know, he's very cool. A giraffe wolf. He was a giraffe. He was a tall guy. He was, I wouldn't even call him a wolf. He didn't need to aggressively pursue anything. It just came to him. He was just like a giraffe rooster.

He was just like strutting around. And then all the female hens would be like. All the chickens were a clucking for sure. Yeah. They were were they were just like yeah eyeballing pretty much what happens with me when i go up to that's why i don't go anymore it's constantly i just like come on you animals make a queue at least i mean geez this is too much for me the world of dating and the politics of that is this incredibly terrifying minefield. And it's all just full of awkward encounters and weird conversations and hungry loneliness.

To boil down homosexuality to Grindr is, you know, we're just messing about. Obviously, it's not like every single gay man is on Grindr night and day just pounding the buttons and saying, oh, I'm bare looking for this. It's just a completely different take on the dating app. Yeah, I think a lot of people get into relationships quite quickly as well. app and i think yeah i think a lot of people get into relationships quite quickly as well like after you know i mean i think that it tends to be um i think if you what you what what i've seen is a few people sort of use it a couple times then after a few days they found someone and they stick with that person right whereas other people are serial users and they are just on it for years yeah meeting me and they can't and they're kind of in that loop that no one's perfect or they're chasing something that doesn't exist or they're

chasing someone who they were with before who they perceived as perfect but no one's going to meet that lofty goal because they didn't spend enough time with them to see all their flaws or whatever you know i think that the most you're ever going to be attracted to someone is the, you know, the first time you meet them and then it goes, at least physically. And then it's always going to go sort of down a little bit in your opinion as you get to know them. And well, sometimes you can love them more. Sure. Some of the things they do, but generally, um, there's certainly that honeymoon phase, that sort of period of time where you're like you've met someone you're really in love with them and that is like very very powerful and when that falls a little bit if it falls too far that's when they break up and they realize that we can't we can't

be together because we're too different we can't you know rationalize these problems that that I have or she has or they have um together um and and so i always i always think of it a little bit like that like you have to continue and it's always people say relationships are work and i'm sure you guys totally agree that you have to keep um working to keep your relationship going it's not something which is you can just post on um you have to continually treat your relationship as if it is a new um a new one and go on dates it's a it's a very fine balance think of think back to when you've what you behaved like when you were dating and when you were first with this person and you i mean you guys know this more than anyone else i'm sure but you can't you

can't sustain a relationship over years and years and have it be the same as when you first met. You just can't. Because for one thing, you know each other way too well. The intrigue is not the same as it was when you were just starting out. So you need to find other ways to still be interested in each other and still. I mean, I think the main thing is if you can have a laugh, that is such a huge. Like if you have no humor relationship with your significant other, if you literally never make each other laugh, what the fuck? What do you do? I think they must be people...

You know those people who list their interests as running? Interests? Running. Yes, running. I know a couple of people like that, actually. Right. When I know people and I look them up on Facebook or whatever, or I'm chatting to them, I'm like, what kind of stuff do you like to do? And they say running. I think you are a very dull person. If you are listing that as an interest, I really don't want to know you because it's a solitary exercise. And I was watching a show the other day and there was this couple on there. I think it was location, location, location. In fact, it was. And the couple were talking about how they met

and they'd met on some exercise thing i don't know they were running up a hill or something and they were both like oh that was fun and i thought we should get married because we both like doing this and they showed both of them running with cycling and i'm thinking there's no conversation here if you're they're running miles you're just running and not talking running running running that's their hobby just a mechanical just motion of the arms and legs and then they go home and say oh that was a good run that's it how's that the basis for a human relationship we run together we don't chat i think they found each other that's perfect though it is great for them but holy shit what a dull couple they must be

no but that's fine you've got to find someone who's into the same stuff you are that's it i'm absolutely on board with that more power to them i'm very happy for them i am just saying how can you live that way you brainless animals look you know squirrels interest if a squirrel's interest was running up trees collecting nuts you'd say yeah well it's a squirrel. They're just simple animals. If a human being said to you, what's my interest? Eating well and running. Fuck me. That's boring. I bet you on your first day, you know, you and your lady wife-to-be were sat down together

and having a discussion about what, you know, what got you ticking. And she said, gosh, I love love a man i love a man who just looks like an egg um i love an egg but also i love a man who stays upstairs on his own doesn't bother me for years but shouts into the microphone drunkenly at his friends for hours on end i love a man who his gay friends describe as an otter even though he's not gay that's the kind of man i'm looking for i'm looking for that guy that's my that's my man no i know that you you two both make your other halves laugh regularly and vice versa you know you're both of your wives have a fierce um sense of humor and make you laugh not always which i think not always for the right reason

but yeah it should be it should be noted. I agree with that definitely as a thing. And I think it's not always going to click. Sometimes it's like a laugh of disbelief, which is not a positive laugh, really. It's like a... Mrs. F likes the fact that I... I mean, she laughs a lot at how clumsy I am. Like I said to her the other day, I always had visions of myself as being quite a graceful, almost dexterous person. I don't know how I had this idea because I'm

a complete bumbling oaf. The number of times, because I don't even notice, I'm banging into stuff, I'm knocking things over, spilling things. I'm always cracking my shin on things, literally just falling over. My eldest is the same she's exactly the same and and I was like oh where did she get this clumsiness from my wife just looked at me and started laughing just like you I was like really? I'm clumsy? And I am clumsy. You said dropping a plate. I'm a little bit like clumsy and cumbersome as well but I I always just chalked it down to my my large johnson it's obstructive actually yeah you kind of walk around like a rapper tripping over it all the time and

like just just just got a big ass johnson it's not my fault swinging around yeah so if you're a clumsy person just blame your johnson just just blame your big-ass Johnson on that. That's advice from Sips. I feel like it's easy to be clumsy and also sort of in our – just laid back. I think if you're just – I don't know, there's this sort of – if you wear a suit, you're all smart. You're all uptight. You're all robotic. You're all smart. You're all uptight.

You're all robotic. You know, I think that being laid back makes you more kind of clumsy. And because you're just not thinking. You're not like doing an operation with a robot arm, like precision moving like a cup into the dishwasher. You know what I mean? You're just sort of, do you know what I mean? I feel like if it doesn't matter if I'm a little clumsy, I think it might be a state of mind though. I think clumsiness might be a part of the laid back attitude. So I'm saying, you know, like the Bob Ross kind of,

you think people that are on edge are less clumsy because they're constantly like terrified and yeah. Yeah. I think so. People who are a bit more nervous of it that are also not clumsy. I think they're very very they're probably more precise yeah jittery people jitters we call them jittery people what do we call the praying mantises no what would they be we can't just keep using wolf for everything twunks what would a clumsy a clumsy twunk a clunk a clump and a big a big one would be a clump a fat one a clump you can't say that anymore you're not allowed to call people fat you're allowed of course you are especially i'm sure like people are quite cool with it like um isn't it called the fat

acceptance movement well yeah but and also like if you if you if you want to define yourself on tinder is a bit a bit of a bit fat go for it like i think a lot of people just own it they're like yeah i'm fat okay fuck you who cares they just like they understand they they've been told enough you know they get it it's not like it's not like what i'm fat like they're not suddenly surprised why didn't anyone tell me yeah they've been jesus they know all right um so i found out the other day that terry cruz is isn't actually bald he's not he shaves with a razor every day he raises his head right it would look weird with her though i'm used to him being that's exactly why he said he does it. However, I was appalled because I considered him one of the most successful bold men around. He owns the look.

Like you said, always known Terry Crews as bold. Terry Crews is bold, I thought. And he's rocking it. What a cool dude. Does it on purpose. And I'm officially announcing he is out of the bold brotherhood and we will not be accepting him.

The brotherhood of the bold. Do you have the ring of you have like the laurel the ring of laurels the laurel wreath crown thing around the edge of your head like the um do you have any uh picard yeah i have a very very much picard i spend it's getting more picard so i will be able when when it goes white i can fully go picard. I always found Picard I always thought of Picard as a bit of a as a bit of a twunk. No, no, is it an older twink? Yeah, he looked like no, no, no, looks like Picard looks like he would have been quite slender as a young man. Yeah, he is. Any become a twink, or a chicken is just a very young, skinny, gay man.

Like, you know, they're young. Okay, but the car's not young, so what would you... Right, a twink is slightly older. A twunk is just a muscular twink. Oh, right, okay, he's not a twunk then. So a twink that bulks up. He's not a twink, twunk, or chicken. There's no way.

I mean, he may be younger. He's like an older twink, though, I would say. I would say him now, classic chicken hawk, looking at him now, judging by what that list said right so these these lists were actually almost they were very physical actually i thought they were a lot more kind of i guess like like like stereotypical definitions of sort of gay gay men or like you know like me and sips were thinking like maybe they were in the closet or something like that but actually they weren't anything like that were they they were no

kind of judgments on what the way people acted or behaved or how open they were about it because certainly some people i'm sure are gay and and don't want to talk about it don't want to make a big deal and other people are completely the opposite and it goes i mean you know i'm sure some people are bisexual as well and some people are kind of just questioning um and and i think that it's it's it's it's nicer now i know that they're just really more physical labels um because that's something i can understand totally you know it's a very masculine thing to do as well isn't it like you said earlier yeah i really like it we should have it more categorize and order things according to a very

simple set of rules like like cricket or something, you know? So it's very, very straightforward. You're a batsman or you're a bowler. Right, exactly. Pitcher and catcher. Very simple. Yeah. Like, there's a whole load of slang. And some people can do both.

Do you want to hear some gay slang that you've never heard before? Sure. Yes. Yes, I do. Angel food. Angel food. Angel food.

Oh, my God. That's what I call my girlfriend. Because angels just want to eat her up. What? That's disgusting. A homosexual pilot currently serving in the Air Force. Oh, what? That's angel food.

A homosexual pilot? Yeah, currently serving in the Air Force. So it's a military thing. Angel food. Jeez. Basket shopping. Basket shopping? Basket shopping.

Oh God. angel food basket shopping basket shopping basket shopping uh is oh god is that someone is that where you go to a supermarket looking for other gay men much like some men go to a supermarket looking for single mums right so cruising wait people do that yes of course cruising all right but specifically it's examining their uh their private area through their clothing so trying to get a glimpse of what are they packing so in sips's case obviously they'd see his fucking huge johnson yeah it looks like a python with like and they'd start drawing over top yeah uh chapstick lesbian so you've heard of a lipstick lesbian right which is like a a lesbian who's very glamorous and sort of dolled up makeup all the rest of it. A chapstick lesbian. A chapstick lesbian.

A chapstick lesbian. Is that a lesbian who's just, yeah, sorry, is that a lesbian who's very masculine? I wasn't paying attention. No, so sort of sporty and athletic, so they might not be wearing makeup, but they'd wear chapstick. I thought that was quite funny. Yeah, that's quite a common look, isn't it, actually? All right, all right. Dishonorable discharge.

Oh, is this a premature ejaculation? That's quite a common look, isn't it? All right. Dishonorable discharge. Oh, is this a premature ejaculation? No. Is this a planned ejaculation into an unauthorized area? No, this is having a wank after you failed to pick someone up. Dishonorable discharge. Right. i like that one uh fish and chips fish and chips uh is that a threesome no i'll give you a clue i'll give you a clue it's used as a pejorative oh fish and chips oh no i still don't know is it someone who is uh fake fake tan they're like kind of orange no but i like that it's it's it was 90s it is 90s slang for the spouse and children of a married

quote-unquote heterosexual right lover So a guy that had a family. So his wife is the fish, the kids are the chips. So that's why. So it's like his beard as well. That's the other one, isn't it? Here's a good one. Full house. Is that where you have your entire body waxed?

Is that the entire full house? You've done everything. Is that when after you've done a dishonorable discharge, you yell out, Have mercy! Like Joey Katsopoulos on Full House? I've never seen the show, I'm sorry. Is it banging every man, every gay man in your local area and there's no more matches on Grindr?

No, I like that one though. No, this is having more than one sexually transmitted infection at once. Oh God. Oh God. Bingo. Oh man. Iron closet. Iron closet. Is that being so in the closet that you just can't break out? You're like super in the closet. Exactly. You're like someone who's in such deep denial, in super denial. So I guess Philip Schofield would be an example. He was in the iron closet. Philip Schofield, give me a fucking break. Iron closet.

I feel like he was the only one who didn't know he was gay. No, he knew. I feel like he's the only person in the world who cares whether he is or is not gay as well. Philip Schofield. Give us a fuck about that guy. Well, he's married with kids. Well, you just do what you have to.

I know, I'm just saying it was a story for sure. And he felt guilty. And, you know, you've got to come out. But he wanted to prescribe to a certain way of life. He wanted to have a wife and kids. And he thought he was, I think he was in denial, obviously, about it for a long time. And he thought he didn't, maybe he just didn didn't understand maybe he was by though as well maybe he just like thought it's very it's very difficult i'm very sad i'm a big philips gophil fan for

going back to the you are yes the broom cupboard days he didn't grow up here he presented kids tv for like 10 years right yeah and it was him and gordon the gopher in the broom cupboard which is kind of funny he was in the closet presenting uh with gordon the gopher and they introduced the shows and it was fucking great what's a gopher pflex gordon the gopher no what's a gopher oh i don't know i don't know what the gay sign go for a small man really it's like it's like the opposite of a giraffe he's got his own category you gotta look like danny devito as well yeah uh a nine dollar bill a nine dollar bill i think it isn't isn't it isn't there the thing which is you're as gay as a nine dollar bill isn't that a thing queerer than a three dollar bill would

be the right so a nine dollar bill is someone who's three times more of a flaming homosexual than three someone who's someone who is uh so so i mean this is the other question isn't it's like is this is the bit about how flamboyantly gay someone is you know because sometimes you meet men who don't want to give any impression that they're gay um and you know or very like a very uh straight edge straight acting is i think the the term used yeah i mean i had a teacher at school uh our english teacher who was extremely straight acting and he was also very good looking and all the mums fancied him and then they found out he was gay and they're like oh my god like all the single mums and everything were kind of upset sometimes they he was very straight yeah well i think it's still because they are a minority and so therefore

the assumption is when you meet someone well people get upset when they find out that somebody's gay are you on a fucking another planet of course they do but like women get upset thinking that like oh i could have had that one but he's gay like they get upset and there was disappointment but the teacher when he when he came out there were people saying they were going to pull their kids from the school right this is unbelievable all that kind of stuff there's a lot of still you know i think there is a lot of hiding and but they shouldn't these they shouldn't have to you know you shouldn't have to go into a school and declare that you're gay to everyone. And so therefore you're automatically considered hiding it.

It's a really tough situation to be in. I think you could see it even like in a professional business meeting, you know, even if like, imagine if there was like, what would he do? Like wear a little rainbow badge or a little rainbow armband. I mean, where are we going with this? I don't know why it's um anybody it's anybody's business really you know like i don't know why yeah why you feel like you have to i guess there's well we have to wait for the generation of of assholes and bigots to die out i guess um and that's the only way you would hope that those ideas i mean they're definitely

all all these changes take time right right? And it's always generational. I mean, if you went back and came out as gay in a school in the 19th century, you would be locked up. And in the 50s, you would be fired. It was illegal to be gay. Even incredibly famous people. I mean, look at what happened to Alan Turing in the 60s. He was given chemical castration and suicide in the end, didn't he?

It was terribly tragic. And that was a guy who was a war hero. the 60s right he was given chemical castration and suicide in the end didn't he exactly terribly tragic um and that was a guy who was a war hero this is modern times as well like i mean this is we're not talking uh you know this is not ancient history stone actually this is this is modern times we had nukes and fucking science and shit we had science we had all sorts of stuff in the 60s it's good all right geez people were doing all sorts of people were really sort of enacting kind of um there was this sort of thing i watched recently kind of um alan um what's his name bloody oh i can't remember his bloody name now he does he does these sort of documentary um style things using um adam. There you go.

He uses like, oh, he has all this like massive amount of archive footage and he puts together these documentaries that feel like conspiracy theory documentaries. And they look at the world in this really odd way. And so he did a couple, he did one called Bitter Lake.

He did one called Hypernormalization recently. And he's been doing it for like 30 years. And they're a little bit hard to follow, but also just really weird and wacky and crazy and interesting. And he did this one in 1992 about how science had been sort of grabbed after the Second World War. There was this sort of age of technocrats who sort of felt like they could kind of shape the economy with science and fix the world with science and make a better world with science and almost every single time it kind of failed spectacularly because it sort of got off got off track immediately and and people you know it went went all horribly wrong and it and it was

just sort of the idea that the government had to take a role in changing things and making things better, you know, after the war. Scary, isn't it? And it's really interesting. These documentaries are really interesting. What do we think it's going to be like in the future? God, well, it really does. It'll just be somehow. It's got in such strange eras, though.

You know, I think in the future, everyone will be categorized by animal so sips will be a like an anteater in the future people will people people will have to put their animals everyone's gonna be a furry um no i'm gonna destroy the planet it It's going to be fur acceptance, you know. No. Unfortunately for us, we are the generation, P-Flax, that does not accept furries. Flax, you're halfway there, man. You're not going to live long enough to see any of these changes.

Thank God. Things will be more or less the same up until you gradually just like... I'll be on my deathbed and they'll announce the new prime minister and it's a guy dressed as a fucking wolf and you'll be like way up to the podium and you'll be like i can't believe that furry is in there and your daughter will be like dad you can't say the f word anymore god you're so embarrassing he puts on his fursonas prime minister puts on his fursona to get up on stage and deliver the keynote speech to the nation sexy foxes

jeez well maybe that is i don't i don't think that's i i i don't think it's likely but well you never know though actually this like there's newer newer generations coming up but certainly the the the people in power now and that the people that are coming up directly sort of under them the younger generation of politician are just as crust crusty if not even more so than than than this current sort of reigning generation of politician right like you look at i was watching question time the other day and there's this tory Tory minister for something or other, youngish looking guy. You know, he's not, he wasn't, he didn't look as old.

We're getting sufficiently old, right? He didn't look like a really old, you know, like an older, crusty politician. This guy looked like, you know, younger. And then I found out that he's even younger than I am. But man, his, everything that he was saying and just like found out that he's even younger than I am. But man, his everything that he was saying, and just like the way that he was saying it, like, it's like they go through some like, factory or something. And they're just pre-programmed to be this way and act this way

and whatever. And I feel like if that's still happening today, like, it's never going to change. You know, there's literally there are institutions out there that demand that these people act in this very specific way in order to keep, like, the... Status quo. The natural order. In check or whatever. It is like brainwashing, isn't it? I'm amazed that these people exist. Because I'm like, you're of my generation.

And he's like, you know, I try and talk to him to him about i don't know anything that's from my generation and it's almost like he was from a different world or something or from a previous generation came from a different planet where all they did was talk about fucking it's like a planet of accountants or something who just have no compassion for anything other than like odega and the planet of the accountants profit margin play the theremin yeah it's really weird it's just it's it's utterly bizarre isn't it but but again like it's just so weird because you can either vote for him or you can vote for his counterpart in the other party who's exactly like him but just says more liberal things uh occasionally than than he does and it's just it's it's always close i think at heart most most of the country is

is pretty much on the fence about most stuff yeah and you just have to lean one way or the other and that's pretty much it yeah like there's you wouldn't call anyone in government over here particularly extreme. I mean, they're pretty same. No, of course, yeah. Because there's so much that goes into it. Nobody can get up there and be too extreme because then they risk alienating voters. So they have to just become... If you actually come out with a policy that seems more extreme...

Or even an opinion that is even slightly extreme... That becomes the soundbite, and that's it. That's you done. Because all your opponents have to point to is that one thing, and that's your ass. Well, the problem of this is soundbite policy. Everyone only has 30 seconds or a minute to make their point. And there are clearly, we've rambled for an hour

and don't get a point across. I think, obviously, it encourages... We don't have a point, though. That's one problem. It encourages... I think the problem is that complex problems don't have soundbite solutions. And most of the time, people don't even understand the extent

to which the problem is complex. They just want to hear a solution. And I think that's one of the things which you get from these big-mouthed politicians, you can promise a solution. And that's what I think the problem is, is that people think that their opinion counts for shit and it doesn't. Like, I'm sorry, but most people's opinion doesn't fucking matter and they should just shut the fuck up. That's pretty much it. Well, it's not that their opinion matters.

that's pretty much it well they think their opinion matters but it's like last week is that i said that that it's just depressing to even have an opinion you know because you it's being powerless to have to have to feel a certain way and have no way to solve it you know if your opinion is that you should your house is untied you couldn't solve that if your opinion is that the government should be doing this then you can't make any fucking difference like at all and you're never going to no and and even with all the all the marching and campaigning and money raising and donations and all that you won't make a flake of difference to the point where i mean why the fuck are they listening to the public they shouldn't do that they genuinely shouldn't do that the public gets the chance to vote you shouldn't go to them with every fucking policy and see what they think, because you're

never going to get a conclusive yes or no. And you're going to piss off a whole bunch of them and anger a bunch of them. If it's the right fucking thing to do, do it. How about that? Have some experts sit around and come up with some good ideas and then do that. We're going to do this. This seems like a good idea. This is our policy.

We're doing it. I don't give a fuck what the public thinks. What do they know? What do I know? I don't know anything about fucking economics. Why is my opinion suddenly important? Why is every cunt's opinion suddenly fucking important? Guess what, people?

They're not. We're idiots. 99% of us are idiots. Why do we matter? Our opinion doesn't matter. The only opinion we have is you decide whether I get to decide with a bunch of other people whether you're elected into power or not yeah that's it if you can convince me with a bunch of good ideas go for it but i don't have to you don't have to fucking explain them to me just say here's this idea we've done the numbers and it's a really good one it may not even appeal to you but you have to

trust us this will work cool i mean that's basically what they do but they suck so bad at it that's the problem they suck they suck the electorate's dick that's the problem they want to come out and get get their opinion and say oh oh you want that then we'll do this what else do you want no don't ask people people don't know they come up it's not people it's papers that's the thing they ask the papers what they want and the papers tell them yeah and the papers are the that's the thing the papers tell the people what is what is happening so people the people get the happening. Get the papers. So people...

The people get the papers. They get the papers. Get the papers. They get their opinions from the paper. And then they make up their own shit. They talk to their stupid friends. Politicians. Like I talk to my stupid friends.

People don't fucking know. Just shut the fuck up. Let the experts handle it. Why did we stop believing people who knew what they were doing and started trusting Joe Public? We're idiots. I think they are too, though. That's the problem. They don't know what they're doing. That's because Joe Public. We're idiots. Yeah, I think they are too, though. That's the problem.

They don't know what they're doing. And that's because the smart people were driven out of politics. Because unless you're a twat who can run his fucking mouth and say, I'm going to make Britain great again, people aren't going to vote for you. You've got to be a big mouth twat and know nothing. That is the eternal problem with politics. Because all of the people that would be really good in politics have no interest in becoming politicians so that so we're stuck with the dregs we're stuck with the

with the with the rejects this is part of the problem but i think it is it is also like we are living in a time where it's bizarre like the like the world we live in is kind of feels incomprehensible to a lot of people because it's so complex there's so many different even like we don't even really understand the the gay ecosphere you know how are we supposed to understand well i mean all it's taken is an hour-long podcast i feel like i'm an expert now and you know i think i think in so many facets of life. Well, exactly. All we need is about 100 more podcasts like this

that are really like a quiz, a quickfire quiz. Yeah, a quickfire quiz. On other topics. What's next week's topic going to be? I'll do another quiz next week. I'll surprise. I don't want to tell you what it is because you'll own up. You know what?

We should call it a segment on the podcast, okay? We'll come up with a jingle and we'll use some soundbites and whatever. You know what we're going to call the segment? Pop quiz, asshole. Pop quiz, asshole. And I'll play the theremin as an intro. Yeah, yeah. So no, I think I would recommend you watch some Adam Curtis.

It's hyper-normalization. It's a movie that's just weird. He did some like short clips for Charlie Brooker's screen wipe. Didn't he do the thing about fear or something like that? Yeah. They'll tell you one minute that one thing's happening and then the next day they'll complain about the lack of so-and-so. And it's like the two things contradict.

But it doesn't matter because you've already forgotten what happened the is from conspiracy theory to you know complicated like a man who's got two dozen browser tabs open in a major wikipedia binge there you go that's what someone described it as but it's like kind of it's kind of like this this mixture of history seen from this one guy an archive footage lots of weird people talking about things and it's kind of just just puts into into sort of into perspective how complex the world we live in is and how we're at a time in history where we've been through such amazingly ambitious and complex and modern ideas um and they've been tried you know in terms of

these planned societies and and scientifically planned economies and kind of in weighing up sort of the industrial you know like if if we get a lot of an industry going we build a lot of things we send those out to other countries and trade it's been good we've been doing it for thousands of years you know trade and all this build making stuff and selling and economies and stuff and business it's been going for a long time we're at this it feels like right now that we just kind of don't really know what we're doing or we're not trying anything new but but behind the scenes there is this whole like build up of crazy years of years of of trying different things and anyway it's quite it's just quite interesting if you're interested in history and you're interested in seeing something a bit conspiracy theory and a

bit weird and something to something to actually like tickle your brain yeah rather than just watching some fucking angry detective hunt a serial killer again or whatever we've talked about lots of this stuff in the past though about we have about you know how there's not been any sort of there's been lots of progress made, but all of the progress made like recently, whereas the difference was a long time ago. You know, there's progress made into like exploring space, getting into space and stuff like that. And none of that, none of that was or appeared to be commercially driven back then. You know what I mean? It was like, here's where we're gonna do this we're gonna pull

together all these resources to make this happen we're gonna fund the right people that need to be funded whatever but nowadays everything has to have like some massive commercial benefit in order for it to see the light of day right like it's all it's all everything's framed in terms of the economy and is it is it going to make money i i money? I don't think everything is as perilous as it... I mean, everything doesn't need to be this perilous. Do you know what I mean? Like work and everything, it used to be much simpler. It's been made more complex and terrifying.

And people are so scared of the economy because it's all hinging on so many factors. I think things used to be simpler. I think now it's so much more complicated that people are living in it and they're kept in this state of constant fear and terror. But the thing about the politicians is because everybody thinks their opinion is now so important and they've become used to arguing their case because of the internet, I think, especially

over the last 20 years, everybody suddenly has a platform, a forum or Twitter or Facebook or any of that shit that they think that their opinion is important. So they want to see their opinion reflected in their leaders. And the problem is, most people's opinions are fucking terrible. So you have leaders who go up, and what do people say about, he looks like the kind of bloke I'd like to have a pint with? No one was saying that about Anthony Eden. No one gave a shit. You know, nobody fucking thought that Gladstone was a bloke

they'd like to have a pint with. They were just thinking, yeah, he's a good man for the job. Now he's got to be your mate. Churchill would be though. He doesn't drink pints. He drank champagne in the bath. That's true. You'd have to get in the bath with Churchill. What does that make him? A polar bear or a...

I think he'd be a classic bear. No, Churchill was a pig. You know pig you taught you talking about he ate fucking the roast chicken for dinner like breakfast like fucking henry the eighth jesus christ um anyway let's fucking end this podcast he ate he ate just uh he he just had a mouthful of ass every morning for breakfast he would wake up in the morning and he would gaze into the anus of a young man for 15 minutes. And then he would eat that ass for breakfast right after. Part of champagne, Martha. And then he would wash it all down with some champagne from the bathtub.

Champagne. Champagne and fresh twunk ass. Oh, gosh. We shall rim them on the beaches we shall blow them on the landing grounds and in the fields alright I hope everyone's doing alright out there we'll see you next week

see you later lots of love. Lots of love. Bye.