Triforce! - Triforce! #146: Jingle Jam Tinder

Episode Date: October 7, 2020

Triforce! Episode 146! Lewis updates us on both Tinder and Jingle Jam in a confusing crossover! Support your favourite podcast on Patreon: https://bit.ly/2SMnzk6 Music courtesy of Epidemic Sound. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Conditions apply. Limited time offer. Well, pal, welcome back, everyone, to the Triforce podcast. Unbelievable. We live in a world where people allow other people to shit in their house. But listen guys, I have a new one for you. I've got a new topic further on from that last week's topic. I would like to present to you this topic. I love that. That was a great show last week. that that was a great show last week um would you okay how do you guys feel about you having somebody visit you and they stay at your house like sleep at your house and like shower and

every like they live at your house for like a week or whatever they come over who is it let's just say okay let's say your parents your parents are in town. They're visiting. What's your knee-jerk reaction? Is it, yeah, you guys can stay with me? Or is it, hey, you guys better find a hotel. My mom always stays with us. She's come up, I'd say, four or five times a year for the last 11 years. Sure.

Because she's on her own. The last time my parents were in the same room was in my wedding in 2001. Okay. And my stepmother was there as well. So that was kind of awkward. Okay, what about your dad and your stepmom? Would they stay if they came over? No, whenever they come over, they stay in a hotel.

Right, okay. And if they couldn't stay in a hotel for some reason? What, then would I let them stay? Yeah. Yes, of course. It's a blizzard. It's a blizzard outside. The car's broken down.

They need to use the phone. You wouldn't try to, like, say to them, like, maybe it's not a good idea to come over, you know? Like, maybe we'll come to you instead or something. They would have flown over from Florida. And I'm just like, well, I guess you guys better find a flight back. There's nowhere to stay. No, of course I'd let them stay.

There's no room at the inn. What about about a friend who but the stable is free how about how about a friend who is married and has two kids and they're in town and they're like oh so four of them where are we gonna stay and then you're like come stay at my house we have had we have had a couple with another with two kids of their own stay at our house, yes. Right, okay. I just want to see where we're at with all this. And so, period, Flax's family lay down in the manger and took a shit because the toilet, we wanted them to decide to use the toilet.

I just want to point out, I'm not the unusual one in this conversation. No, I know you're not. Who hates anybody coming to their house, staying, using their toilet, who wants to live this unbelievably private secret life. That's not most people. I love someone coming around and staying. I love it, but I don't like it for more than like a day. After a while, it gets a little tedious, of course,

but it's still a nice thing to do. Yeah, it's sort of my McDonald's chair philosophy of I want to make it comfortable, but not that comfortable. They don't want to stay on a day though right so i i have a sofa bed and you know but they're but it's but they're sleeping downstairs kind of in the lounge so it's not necessarily like i mean it's not it's not like a dedicated guest room i used to have one but people would just stay for too long it's weird i got so i i need to say though in north amer, this is a very common thing, as far as I know.

Like staying with people or having people stay with you. Like people come to visit from out of town or whatever, and you've got space, you put them up. Or likewise, like when I was a kid, we stayed at people's houses. It's great. They had kids and stuff like that. And vice versa. It's great. They had kids and stuff like that. And vice versa, people would stay. But now that I'm an adult with my own house and stuff, I don't really want people staying at my house, like unless it's absolutely necessary. You know what I mean? I can see it

being like this European Mediterranean wonderful thing, right? Wherever one gets together and has a nice time. But I think it always just throws off my rhythm a bit. We always go to bed either a bit too early or too late. And then realize you're not oh i can't go downstairs and get water yeah and everybody's got to use the same showering facilities in the morning it's like stake it up early they're banging around you're like oh what fucking time is it seven o'clock jesus christ and then you get up and you go oh hello you know in the dressing gown um i'm not mad about it like at a push i would do it i'm not like i'm not saying i would deny somebody like uh like you know out of sheer principle or

whatever i like it but i would try to like different i would actually go as far to say as i will pay for you to stay in a hotel so that you don't have to stay at my house i would go that far i do that with certain people like certain people that i don't like um you know like i don't want to say girlfriend's family but girlfriend's family right like you know it's got to be like it's a thing where they're just annoying and it's just easier for me not to have to worry about it and also that does ensure that they only stay a day as well because if i'm if they pay for a hotel that they feel like oh i don't want to make him pay for a hotel for more than a couple of days or whatever or that usually they feel like, oh, I don't want to make him pay for a hotel for more than a couple of days or whatever.

Or usually they often pay for themselves, actually. I don't tend to have to pay for those hotels. No, I've never had to pay for somebody to stay. I don't think I've ever actually had to pay. Yeah, I'm willing to do it if somebody's really strapped and they can't do it and it means that I don't have to host them or whatever.

I would do it. I mean, I've had a bunch of random people stay at my house when they've locked themselves out or they've had some leak or they've had something go wrong or they've had an argument with their boyfriend or girlfriend or whatever or my mom's had an argument my dad came down one time which is like turned up and was like i don't know your dad you're gonna have to put me up for a couple of days so i was like okay wow right that's a pretty your dad. You're going to have to put me up for a couple of days. So I was like, okay. Wow. That's a pretty bad one, isn't it? You know what?

I haven't had that with a family member, but I've had a friend had a big argument with her partner and he drove her here so she could stay with us for a week while they sorted their shit out. And I thought, that's nice of him. You know, I'm kind of assuming it's not that bad. He's very self-aware of the issues and stuff. You just need a break. They were obviously under a lot of stress at that time.

And I'm not going to name any names or anything like that. Joe, if you're listening, she was fine the whole time. You know who you are. I didn't touch her the whole time. I promise, Joe. She touched me, Joe, but I didn't touch her. She touched me in places I never thought anyone would ever touch me, Joe. Fuck.

Yeah, it's all. I mean, obviously, these are, I'm not saying that when I have someone I don't really know very well stay, it's immediately comfortable and I'm some kind of relaxed, you know, like you said, some Mediterranean. Yeah, of course, you'll come and stay at the house. You know, that's not me the house you know that's not that's not me because that's not most people but at the same time if people are going to stay they're going to stay like you know

if they've got no choice but ideally would you have somebody stay with you like I would say there are some people I would I mean my mum comes up to say I love that that's different if it's someone I don't really know then it is kind kind of if your mom and dad were together though would you want them both staying at your house like i would say i would have just my mom no problem because she

would like help with the kids whatever but i don't want my mom and dad staying like if my parents together together yeah hard work like i mean i've had my in-laws up to stay yeah you know mrs f's parents and uh i just hide upstairs yeah i mean yeah yeah that's understandable but like no i just like i also want to say about last week with the whole toilet thing and everything it's different for me i live in a place where everybody lives close by here comes the back track okay so from my point of view if somebody's shitting at my house there's absolutely no reason for them to be doing this because we're on side they they live at least 10 minutes away from home no matter where they are on the island you can't caveat it like that you were blanket no doesn't matter who

you're not doing well ideally it's a no no matter what but i understand like i'm not i'm not like fucking stand your ground dude and didn't you grow up in the the wilds of canada where it's 20 miles you stand on the border of your property with that magnum or shotgun whatever they're using it's not as bad as that no pooping you have a side on that people are saying that i'm crazy i'm not actually crazy not in that way yeah we're all a little in bed i am obviously but um when it comes to comes to people pooping in my toilet and stuff obviously if somebody's gotta go it can't be helped like i'm not gonna fucking kick them out of my house a flip-flop of boris johnson proportions are you are you

running for president sips is this it is this what you're trying to do you're trying to do you try to write just a second what do i say here what do i need to say okay thank you okay okay no i have no uh desire at this moment to commit to anything really um oh yeah good so so this so that this week um and over the last week i've been doing something new right which is new for me i assume not new for the yogs cast that is reaching out to people to ask if they will help with jingle jam right and the only experience that i can possibly compare this to is me going on dating sites right okay because i'm a nice guy because they've all said no do you know what lewis if it's that difficult and people don't want to do it just sack it off who fucking cares it's their tough shit isn't it like how much money have you made for charity over the years with all this how much like exposure have you given to people and stuff yeah fuck them if they

don't want it fuck them it's their problem they could go find the the latest fucking 10 year old screaming blue haired streamer to buddy up with and and just see how that goes that's fine now we're like that's what established i don't know why this is such a difficult thing like it's funny we've been doing it for like 10 years maybe you know what maybe it's time to to let some of the rest of us try and see what the issues are. I think that might help. Because I have no idea. Like, I always imagined. I'm picturing the time that they let Father Dougal do the mass

and the hearse is on fire and everybody's crying. That's not. I think you're, this is an analogy, okay? I'm an attractive middle-aged man, okay? Obviously, I'm on. Am i putting myself in your shoes or are you fine i'm a slightly a mystical no i'm you're putting your imagine i'm the jingle jam okay jingle jams we go for a while okay it's middle-aged okay yeah it's had some fairly average girlfriends in the past. Okay. And you can see that, right? You know that it's like, it's not ever dated anyone super hot. Oh, it had that one really good girlfriend though.

It did have a really hot girlfriend that one time. And that girlfriend said that being with that guy was great. They had a great time and it worked out great for them. Okay. It wasn't like, it was never a bad problem. The guy was great. The girl went on to do great things okay right it was like it was not a problem negative experience and none of this guy's previous girlfriends however good looking they are right have ever reported a problem

in fact a lot of those girls have tried to get back with the guy in later years. And the guy's been like, nah, I don't think I want to go back there. But thank you, right? Maybe. So he's not pushed it out the window, right? And no one's had a bad time. What are we talking about here? This analogy is going really weird. I am on board.

I am fucking lost. Well, then we represent the two halves of the audience. Okay, that's good. Wait, wait, wait. I just thought of something. We need to explain what this all means. So just in case there's people listening who maybe don't know what the Jingle Jam or the Humble Bundle is,

the Jingle Jam is an annual month-long charity fundraising series of streams that the Yogscast do. And the Humble Bundle is a pack of games that you essentially purchase with a charitable donation. Those games, you get all of them and the money goes to the charity fundraiser that is the Jingle Jam. That's just so you guys understand where we're coming from with all this. Was that a train in the background?

Yes, that was a train. Holy crap. What was that? The train is now arriving. It sounded great. You the background? Yes, that was a train. Holy crap. The train is now arriving. Yeah, that noise. You hear it quite often. It's a very iconic British train. Where is this going? And what are we even talking about right now?

I'm dating. I'm going out there, emailing people, saying, hey, are you interested in hanging out this year for Jingle Jack? And they're broadly into like the categories of like it was on tinder right they i would swipe up on everyone because that's what i do right um you're a guy you swipe up on everyone you just see what comes back okay right obviously the the top tier uh who you don't stand a chance with you know death stranding you know uh like

she's gorgeous but you know she's and it would break you if you went with her as well right it wouldn't work okay because you'd never you'd know there was a problem um wait she's is it still about too good looking yes sorry yeah so no but like for example like we can't have partners who are too new and successful and things like that because because otherwise it doesn't make any sense. We can't really have, I don't know, 10, 50 quid games in the bundle that are really, really good.

Because then we're selling the bundle for 30 bucks and it kind of causes some problems with that. Because we'll run out of keys and they'll be sold out in no time. We kind of have this limited idea of what the bundle is it's kind of it's not really scalable you know we we aim to get between like one and three million dollars but we don't have a mechanism in place for going higher than that and i've been trying to build that for years right but we can't find the partners to do it with

really no and there's a lot of reasons for that anyway it's incredibly complicated but i then sort of so the people who come back to me are usually really. No. And there's a lot of reasons for that. Anyway, it's incredibly complicated. So the people who come back to me are usually the people who understand that there's a lot of value in Jingle Jam. Like, there's a good guy here at the core. He's a man. He'll look after you. It's good.

The analogy's gone weird again. But a lot of people understand that Jingle Jam isn't a bad thing. thing it's like it's a good thing it's positive for everyone everyone gets great things out of it it's good for the audience it's good for the devs um sure they have to give keys away i gotta say when this analogy started i was there i was at the lakeside i was getting my canoe off the truck i was getting ready for the portage now i'm in fucking timbuktu like okay i don't know what went wrong with this portage it's like it's it's ruined sorry so like i basically and then so there's all these people who understand i don't want to go too deeply but i've i've talked to all these people who sort of understand that

jingle jam is worth it but they can't push it through within their own organization right so maybe they're maybe they're maybe they're they show a picture of me to their sister or their advisor, and they're like, oh, that guy looks like a serial killer. He's going to murder you. And so I have a thing. I look a bit like a serial killer, maybe, or an axe murderer. There's no reason for it. So are we saying that this is the reason why you're struggling

to get the Jingle Jam going this year because you look like a serial killer? I mean, if you got a haircut, that would help. It's because devs are terrified of giving away all these keys right um and obviously you know it's not really a problem we've never really seen reselling of keys we've never really seen any sales impacts from that like it's never been a problem but it looks like a problem it's like a red flag that people are terrified of right and so that is something which we obviously have to try and almost come out straight away and be like, hey, I know I look like a serial killer,

and I'm holding an axe, but I've never killed anyone. Right. I promise. Here's some past evidence that I've never killed anyone. I don't know. Do you know what I mean? I've never been charged.

So that's that. And then there's the lower tier of people who are just kind of frothing at the mouth or anything yeah who who are like i can't wait to be i can't wait to to i can't wait for all the money to roll in yeah in fact can you date my 75 year old gran i can't i can't wait to see my my bank balance skyrocket off the back of all this exposure. Yeah. I understand that as well.

Okay. Can you date also, can you date my, my 65 year old aunt? So, yeah, so, so I, and it's very hard for me then to turn down all of these, uh, these, these ostensibly Tinder dates who are like, uh, who are like, have got a picture of a, of a hot 25 year old but are actually setting up the profile for their single 45 year old mom or whatever do you mean right that that kind of stuff so in summary we're struggling to get humble bundle things this year is that the no no we're not i think it's going fine but i've just sort of sent out the first

wave of stuff i think it'll be great actually but that's the opposite of what I thought this was going to lead to. Yeah, I thought this was like a doom and gloom story, but it sounds like it's all fine. Well, but the thing is, we don't need everyone. I've hit up like 100 people. Jeremy and I found like 10 or 15 who were great, so it'll be fine. And I think it'll be a really good bundle

this year, actually, because I'm running it for the first time, rather than everyone else. So in fact, it might well be fucking amazing and way better than previous years so that's what i'm currently i'm currently brimming with confidence but yesterday i was the opposite i mean and then tomorrow i'll probably be again completely bipolar i see so and now so you have a good date one day and a bad date next week. One day you're getting lots of responses, another day you're not. So you're up and down, your mood is swinging. And it's also so frustrating because what happens is

somebody makes a promise to me. You know, like last year, a big games company, who I'm not going to name, promised me a game. And we were like, oh, that would be amazing. And he was like, yeah, definitely we'll get it. It's all going to be sorted. And we were like, fantastic. That amazing and he was like yep definitely we'll get it uh it's all going to be sorted and we were like fantastic that's so nice amazing thank you and we did loads of stuff for them we did loads of work we went we had our hair done we we took their mum to the hospital we we cleaned their house we did loads of stuff for them right it's like a thank

you for going on a date with us because that's totally how it works, right? And then they were like, oh, no, about that date. Yeah. We're going to have to pull out. It's not you, it's me. I don't know how anybody has the patience to do any of this shit dealing with game companies and stuff. Just the fucking pits. And then the other one is that the biggest thing is that

it's nice people at these companies who can't push it through the layers of boxes. Well, yeah, because they're lower down people. Because it all comes to you having to speak to the right person or know the right person. If I talk to someone, I can convince them that Jingle Jam is a good thing and it's in their incentive to do it. But they then have to do that to their boss. And they can usually do that. But then their boss has to then convince their boss.

And that is usually when it falls. It's a bit like handing a glass of water and saying this needs to get all the way to the end. And, you know, your motivation to hand that water further and further down the line without taking a sip or spilling some is lost. And by the time you come to the upper boss, you've got a guy who's not motivated

handing over a thimble full of water that's left in the glass to a guy who definitely doesn't care. It looks like it's been sipped along. He's like, I don't care about this. Do you? Nah, not really. Okay, job done. Stamp, no. Like, that's it. I'd rather have that than they just don't reply at all.

Yeah, no, that's true. But don't you think the not reply at all means that you've just given up on them? Whereas the people who do reply and say, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll try my best. Then you think, oh, cool, that's going to happen. And then it doesn't. Hilariously, though, it's a little bit like what happens where I meet these people or multiple times per year sometimes. Like, you know, I know these people really well.

I've met them at various conventions that I go to throughout the year. You know, they definitely know who I am because we've had drinks together a few times. And I send them emails back and forth every time. And when I send them jingle jam, you know, they definitely know who I am. Because we've had drinks together a few times, and I send them emails back and forth every time. And when I send them a Jingle Jam email, no response. I do a follow-up, no response. And I'm like, okay, I get it. But sometimes these people feel like, certainly this is the sort of thing that happens,

which means Sipsaw, when we went to Valve. I don't want to really complain about Valve, but they have a very much pop your your head up from the pack and you'll get whack a mold back down again you know it's very much people don't want to yeah nobody wants to no one wants to be the target nobody wants to do the standout thing to like bring attention to themselves like in that way sort of thing like i think people want to do something good where everybody's like this guy has done this great thing or whatever, but nobody wants to like... And I can completely understand it.

...come up with an idea that might put them in a... People want their security and it's easier for them to just say, it's not worth the risk for me to try and make this a thing, you know? Because I think it still, it feels like a risk for a lot of these companies, even though...

I was like, yesterday, some guy replied saying like his two two and a half year old game was was too new for the jingle jam and i was like i was like we've got we've had newer games of that two years ago do you know i mean like what are you talking about and i almost i almost was rude because i almost wrote like you know the jingle jam might help rejuvenate your shitty dead game but i was like i was like just you know what fuck you i don't care like if you're not interested some other way he's got some other method in mind to revive his shitty dead game so i'm just like i like the game but it is a it is a bit of a shitty

dead game yeah it's a it's a bit of a game that people take a look on steam at any given moment and you can find hundreds of games just like that well these are easy where's where's this at my dating pool so yeah so i've got a i've got a question for you let's talk about the uh the tinder dating how many tinder dates with different people would you say you went on and what and and i always i would also like to know was there like a like a consistent theme across all the dates because you brought yourself to these dates obviously so like i'm wondering was there anything that recurred consistently where you thought like hang on a second like all of these women have figured out that i'm

you know kind of dumb or whatever. Did you get any of that? Or was it like... So let's do part one. How many Tinder dates would you say you went on? Because I know a friend of mine who used Tinder and went on a bunch of dates and never spoke about it. Because you don't want to say to everyone...

I mean, first of all, why would you email your mates every time you have a Tinder date? It would be like, I guess it would be fairly constant updates and not very interesting and i don't know what you're looking for affirmation there or something like that people are saying go for it like how many times can your friends say that you don't even got another tinder date with a new girl tonight it's like well didn't you have three this week already and none of them worked out at this point it gets depressing but i want to know you're using tinder how many dates would you say you've been on with

it so how many days with different you know you see that this is like a politician's answer you know you see the um are you are you currently clasping your fist with just your thumb flat on top and pointing at me with that i'm pointing at you well well well the the real question here can i speak real can i speak can i speak please uh so Can I speak, please? So I read subreddit r slash data is beautiful a lot. And they constantly do these, I don't know what they're called, but they look like fat wedgie charts that splodge out. Sounds like the average Tinder date, am I right, fellas? Yeah, nice.

I did like a thousand job interviews. And then it sort of goes down into like rejected and accepted and then interview and then it breaks up again into like interview one and interview two. And then eventually at the end, they usually have like one

and it's like new job. Do you know what I mean? So it's like from a thousand to one. Are there like Tinder success stories? Like there's got to be, right? There's tons. People have met on Tinder and they're together now

and they're happy. Yeah. Oh, some's gotta be right. Yeah. People have met on Tinder and they're together now and they're, they're, they're happy. Yeah. Oh, there's some of them are fantastic. You know, we've got a couple of couple of couples in the office who met on Tinder, you know, probably even three or four years ago now and they're still going great. So no, it's like, I know a bunch of people who had good relationships through Tinder. Like still, still, still intact as well. Yeah. Yeah. All right. My brother makes wife online dating 12, 13 years ago well? Yeah, yeah. Oh, right.

My brother-in-law's wife and I were dating 12, 13 years ago. I mean, I met my wife online. It wasn't a dating site, but we met online and we've been fine. It's just a way of meeting people. There's a lot of stigma around it, but essentially it's just a way of making a first contact with someone who you otherwise wouldn't have had a means to meet. I just feel like with Tinder, it sort of like adds like a game gaming element to the whole thing yes which which i feel is like social thing hasn't it and quite a bit more casual focused as well a bit more like short-term kind of it's at least it gives that impression i

think yeah i mean they they don't want that to be the impression but it is like hannibal breast said it's just an app where you use it for geographical-based sex. Like, that's it. It's like, are you in my proximity? Yes, you are. Then we shall meet up and have sex. That's what he saw Tinder as. And the Tinder people were like, no, it's not that.

It's so much more. So I think it depends what you want to use it for. That's definitely more Grindr. Grindr? Let's not go here again. So, like, basically, Tinder is... Well, so i i think i probably i don't know how many people i swiped up on let's say it must be where does that wait a couple of thousand no no but how many how many actual sit down face-to-face he's coming to that did you go on oh well sorry

not up i mean i mean just swiped right whatever it is i can't remember this is why it didn't work you were swiping up yeah i was swiping the wrong way no up is super light did you take any did you take any women out for dinner like was that a date like did you go out

for dinner did you eat no never went out for dinner what was it drinks you went out for a drink coffee

coffee alright okay so just to meet in like a public place right or starbucks I feel like that would just be tremendously awkward like from the get-go

it's quite chill because you could you could do it at like lunchtime or you know like a like a like an evening like it's not like it's not like it's not it's a low pressure thing it doesn't take very long what's the measure on how well the data is going that the longer it lasts like if if they like gulp their coffee down in like one gulp and they're like gotta go like you know that you're fucked up right like yes yeah i think that is actually pretty and did you do that to anybody did you ever meet somebody where you're like fuck i gotta chug this and get the fuck out of here like so fast uh no not really did you ever make an excuse to leave and be like oh gosh that's work i've got to go i'll talk to you soon oh god my hemorrhoids are flaring i gotta i i guess i'm

just interested in people generally i i don't i quite enjoy meeting someone new even if i'm not attracted to them because i can i've they everyone you meet has something interesting to say and i feel like it's rude to kind of i people an impression that I didn't like. I'd be hopeless at that. I don't even want to know about people, really. Like, I would ask them a question. I would just fucking zone out. But can you imagine it?

Since you'd see someone on the screen, you'd be like, they look nice and very pretty. And you'd swipe. And then there they are. Yeah. Like, you've magically summoned them and then you can have a chat with them and maybe even sticky dick in them. Like that's pretty awesome.

That would be exciting. I love that. I feel like, I don't know, maybe I'm like old school or like sheltered or like, I mean, I've only like, I've been with my wife since like I was like in my late teens, you know what I mean? So it's like.

This is why it's exciting to me though because it's like i've never lived this life yeah no i i look at it completely differently i'm always very sort of like oh thank god i never had to do any of that stuff yeah thank god i've made it to the age i'm at now where i just don't even really care about it anymore and that i didn't have to live through all these awkward moments like I had girlfriends in school and stuff that's different at school right like you yeah yeah you're in a class with somebody or like your peer group is like like somehow you know like like circle of friends at school how they would like change around like sometimes people would join and leave or like there'd be

like crossover stuff like I remember i remember like in the summer it always happened right like you'd be out with your friends like as a teenager like at a skate park or something and you would just start hanging out with another group of people like oftentimes it was like other girls or whatever uh and then that's your whole summer would be just like yeah we just hung out with this other group of like random people that we'd never hung out with before and like maybe that didn't survive into like the next school year or whatever but it was just like fun for the summer right yeah but and like that that kind of worked because everybody was in the same boat you know like i don't know it just feels like with online dating

and stuff i can't get my head around it i can't imagine ever doing it or enjoying it. Or like, I just feel like I'd be so fucking awkward. And I would find the whole thing just really awful. Like, I'm glad I never had to do it. I think that it is not something that you go into blind. I mean, you often talk to people and get to know them a bit before you meet them. And so when you do meet them, it's not awkward. Like what happened with your wife? I'm sure the first time you met your wife, it was awkward for 30 seconds or a minute. Like when do you meet anyone?

It was weird, though, because we'd spoken so much leading up to meeting up. Exactly. Because we had to geographically. We were so far away. Like we'd spoken on the phone, like, you know, countless times, emails, everything. You know what I mean? We had like a really good rapport. on the phone like you know countless times emails like everything you know what i mean like it was we had like a really good rapport so when we when we first met for like for like a split second it

was a bit awkward but then it was just fine you know because like we kind of knew each other so it wasn't it wasn't too bad but with online dating like tinder and stuff i don't know if you really get that right you're just like you you get a glimpse of somebody and then all of a sudden like flack said you're just face to face with them i don't know i don't know like it depends i think i'd fuck it up every time like i'd say something stupid or whatever it would vary for me like whether you know they would a lot of a lot of people i spoke to just wanted to chat for ages like they never They almost like every time, some people I would mention, you know, we should get coffee

or, you know, we should exchange numbers. And that would be like it for them. That would be too scary. And they would be like, no. And then that would be after we chatted. Sometimes, obviously, sometimes that, you know, everyone's different, right?

And everyone wants something different out of it. And everyone's differently attracted to you or feels like they have a different speed to go at. And some people never want to meet up. They just want to chat forever and be this sort of pen pal or like a cyber chat or a fantasy. Or because maybe they're not real. Maybe they are, but maybe they are scared.

There's a hundred reasons. You can't tell through chat, you know, back and forth, especially when you're trying to like i don't know you're trying to be you're trying to be funny and flirty and this sort of you it's kind of really odd it is weird it's kind of i don't know you're you're behaving in a sort of slightly odd off way and until you get over that and just i mean you just have to try and be normal i guess and just be friendly um but at least i think so i i don't know i don't i'm not playing the game though maybe i wasn't playing the game right because i didn't

really end up meeting very many people in reality and you know of those they didn't really lead to anything that's probably for the did you ever meet one uh like a like a woman um while you were doing this, or a man, I don't know, where you went to have a coffee and they were really soft-spoken, really nice and everything. And then one thing led to another and you ended up back at this woman's apartment for more coffee, even though you just had a bunch of coffee. And then all of a sudden she turned into some sort of woman devil and she's like, I'm going to eat your fucking cock, bitch. Like it chased you around the apartment. Did that ever happen? Yeah, did that ever happen? God, I would love it if a woman yelled at me.

And you were like, no, not my cock, please. You're running away. Isn't that the ideal outcome? You were wearing like socks, like male sock suspenders like she managed to like fucking burn your trousers off and stuff no please um i honestly out of this weirdly i think i had more success talking about tinder and my experiences on it to other um women that i'd met in real life you know like i'd go to i'd go to um we were on holiday in i think vancouver or somewhere and i was chatting to these really nice people you know

chatting up chatting up ladies i don't know i feel like i feel like i got into better conversations and got further along in terms of actually someone who i might want to have a relationship with with someone that i just met randomly in real life yeah um but you had a cornerstone that you could all respond to a bit like if you were both vietnam vets and you met at a bar you could chat about danang or the uh the tech the tech offensive it's exactly like that yeah exactly man those helicopters coming over the hill fuck i've seen some shit, Reggie. I've seen some shit with my eyes. That woman on Tinder.

April 1971 in the Latrine Valley. Me and my guys got cut off. No fire support. And the birds had nowhere to land. We all had to take a bite of their shit sandwich that day. Tex was on the M60. And V veto was up front with the grenade launcher boy we got him cut him and cut us to pieces man this is such a this this is like video game writing isn't it i played i played mafia definitive edition recently and it's so it's fucking like it's it such a, it was really good. I really enjoyed it. But it's just like, it was just filled with mafia tropes.

Oh, it's so annoying. The voice acting was just not there. Like they didn't have like good, like I feel like if you're going to make this like really sort of hammy tropey game, like at least go nuts with like the accents. You know what I mean? nuts with like the with like the accents you know what i mean like get get people in who can do really good you know like fucking new york like italian new york accents or whatever but like i don't know there's just parts of it that just felt like not there you know like it just i think it's quite often it's 20 years old i know i know and like you know like the story at the time i remember

playing through it and thinking this is great you know what i mean but like, you know, like the story at the time, I remember playing through it and thinking, this is great. You know what I mean? But like, I don't know, like parts of it, even though like they've redone the graphics and stuff and it looks great and it plays really well and stuff like parts of it. You love Mafia. You love like the Mafia vibe. You love those accents.

You want it to be this kind of almost comedic world, almost like it's its own, it is its own setting, mafia era stuff, you know, with the, when the whiskey was Canadian. I don't know, I think it's been done though, right? All that, like Sopranos has done it well. Like there's been lots of that, that we've seen all that, but there's so much, there's so many like interesting stories that they could do and stuff but like i don't know they always seem to gravitate back towards these really sort of like

yeah kind of tropey sort of things you know like i gotta get out of this life and like i know that's like a part of it or whatever but i mean i don't know it's like i i i'd be up for something new you know like i'd like to play a mafia game where you start off as just a lowly lad, just a foot soldier. Well, Mafia is like that. You start off as a driver. Go and collect this money. Go and roust these guys.

Go and burn this bar. But it seems like it always very quickly turns into some big thing. Like I just want to be in the Mafia in the game. Just really boring day-to-day stuff. In a bar, someone says the wrong thing. What do you fucking say about me, huh? You think you're a big shot, huh? Smash their head in the bar.

Go to my car. Get a golf club. Batter them to death. Hey, motherfucking don't talk shit about me. You know. Yeah. Just day-to-day shit. You know, it'd be good if it was more like open world, open sandbox, but you had to like

kick up, right? because that's a big thing yeah you gotta make your payments like even when you're in the mob like no matter what level you're at you're always kicking up to somebody you gotta kick up if you if you don't if it's light or whatever that's a problem right now you borrow some money on and then you say the vig is killing me the vig yeah the vig is like the interest yeah i know it's a bit light but i'll get you next week some money. Really big on. And then you say, the Vig is killing me. The Vig. Yeah. The Vig is like the interest. I know it's a bit light, but I'll get you next week. What the fuck

you say to me? Tony, you're still on with that 10 grand I haven't forgotten about. Yeah, I'll get it to you. My horses ain't coming in at the moment.

That's all I'm saying. Like, it's always like, it's what amazes me in all of these things. I lost the spread. This fucking, this fucking nag,

it was just, it was just, it threw the race. I don't know why what's going on. It's like, why why did you you're in the hole for money so you borrow money to to bet on horses that's the whole point though that all the people that are like like it seemed to be involved or have any affiliation whatsoever always suffer from the same problems right yeah gambling like degeneracy like it's all it's always the same like they prey on these people right both to get them in to do the the dirty work and and and to fucking make money off

of like in the as a civilian right like it's always the same types of people the same people that are going to make these monumental errors of judgment like in their life it's like that i was watching casino the other day you know the film casino yeah robert de niro i found it on youtube oddly enough the entire film in hd it's been up for a while it's just like bizarre so i just stumbled across that i was like oh yeah i'll watch this and there's a bit where he goes casually watching a movie from literally watching a whole movie on youtube it was so weird um and uh there's a scene where he goes to a bookie and he wants the money and he goes in he goes hey you got that thing for me and he goes uh oh tony i thought you was laying it thought i was laying i ain't laying it no i want my money and he's like

oh oh i don't know what i don't understand you know and suddenly he's like how about i put your fucking head through this fucking glass he's like okay okay and he takes it out he goes oh you just fucking had it right there ready huh i was like it's just literally the guy's day is going around and collecting money that people owe him yeah or lending it to people and saying like oh yeah get it back to me whenever you can then when we play where's my fucking money like smack their heads on stuff what a life that's well but it is that's track of it all they just take it they just take advantage of people like that's all it is it literally is just taking advantage of people who are are just prone to making really shitty choices in life like it's it's the same with like uh like with with drug dealers and stuff you know

what i mean like they they have like regular customers they know these people can't help themselves or whatever well it's not like they're like uh you know maybe i'm not gonna sell this to you today i want you to get better no of course not like they're just they just fucking fully take advantage of them that's all it's terrible that's all it is yeah the like organized crime for the most part is the same as well like look at all the even now like all the covid uh scams and stuff like that like it's all it is all it is is just taking advantage of a situation or stupid people yeah that's all all it comes down to it's all it is. All it is is just taking advantage of a situation or stupid people. Like that's all, all it comes down to.

It's interesting. And it works. It almost created a culture of gambling and money lending. But then they, like you said, they take advantage of the people, even that are within that. Yeah.

Like people within the mafia owe money to people who are further up. Of course. Yeah. They set them up. They stitch them up all the time. Like they, cause they just know, like people can't help themselves, you know, like just like yeah we know like i know i'm gonna lend

money to this guy and he's either gonna pay me back way more than i lent him uh because he's gonna win big or i'm gonna fucking almost kill him uh to prove a point sort of thing and he's gonna be paying me off the thing yeah well that's it like i like the big the big thing was they get people um in gambling debts and stuff and they especially like used to go after people who had legitimate businesses yeah because then when they owed the money and they had no chance of ever repaying they'd say all right fine i'll take a cut of your business and then they would just run all of their fucking rackets through that business and just burn it to the ground basically like you know these are people's livelihoods generations of livelihoods just completely ruined because of just a couple of like fucking scams that's crazy yeah but their gang wars and stuff are also kind of interesting and it sort of it

makes sense when you think about it in terms of how you can rob other criminals because they can't go to the police about it right yeah well that's the that was one of the big things in goodfellas and in the book especially was that the the mafia is essentially it's it's almost like the authority and the police for people that are essentially corrupt and and criminals yeah so it's a way, it's essentially, let's say I'm running a real bar and I'm running it with a bunch of my friends of the mafia and we borrow money and all the rest of it to get it.

And it's a pretty shady joint and everything, or a jerk, all that sort of stuff. The whole point is, if I have a problem, I can't go to the police. I have to go to the mafia. Yeah, because what you're doing is already illegal. So they become the police for you. But they have a set of rules.

So it's like, it's essentially a framework for criminality. And so the bookies can run, they're legitimized by the mafia because that bookie can now operate and he knows that his debts will be paid because if they don't, he's kicking up to Big Tony. So essentially Big Tony is providing the muscle. it's essentially you're paying taxes to the yeah it's a tax yeah but if you have the same way you take you pay tax for like a service in society

you're right it's the exact same thing you pay a tax and they'll help you out if they can or whatever if you go to them and say look i would pay you guys this week but these five guys are not paying me their debts then they're like okay we take care of it they go to these five guys and they collect the fucking debt and then they get their money you get your money that's the framework like that's in an ideal scenario yeah but for the most part it's like that's not my fucking problem where's my money like it's you know what I mean it's like I think I think it operated very successfully I don't I honestly don't think you could operate it on that kind of mindless, give me my money, like, regardless.

Like, I'm pretty sure that no one would actually work with them. It probably wasn't, like, as widespread. I think that's another sort of trope-y thing that appears, like, in a lot of movies and stuff like that. You forget how big the mafia was. Oh, yeah, no, I'm not denying that. I'm saying, like, the whole mind mindless like oh give me my money like yeah like there's obviously there is strategy to it and stuff at times where it wasn't just i mean you don't want to put those businesses out you want

that bookie to keep earning he's a good owner you know and he's going to keep being a good owner i don't want to you know we want to keep an eye on him so they just want to make sure that you you're not stiff in them and they don't need that they don't stiff you so much you go under because they're gonna then they're gonna find another bookie yeah and that's a pain in the ass it's interesting it's interesting how something like that can be so organized and tight-knit but at the same time it is very chaotic as well like yeah it's a it's a miracle that it ever did work really when you think it's just the rules isn't it yeah like if you have rules and a chain of command and everybody understands those rules even if to all of us and i would hope everyone listening you would think i could never do that that sounds terrifying it's i mean if you're going to be a

criminal at least there's some rules and there's like an understanding of what's going to happen what's allowed what's not and because of the whole made man thing you can't just go killing another made guy without a good reason so it's like but i mean you know they're not all just killing each other of course yeah yeah it's like it's there were it's funny that there was like a like a code and rules and stuff like that but they were they were so often broken you know yeah but it's something yeah it is more than they would have other it is something i think that's what makes it so interesting for people to like from the outside looking in that there is this structure and this code and these rules and stuff because then people can kind of identify with it a bit

more you know and but it's like it's actually really frightening to think that people can can do that though like organized to that extent outside of like what we seem as like see as like a normal organization right like of society or like a company or whatever but like i don't know you think about some companies they almost operate like the mafia in some ways as well right like when you find out about all these like scams that they've been doing or this and that and the other and you just think really like i mean there are loose rules for everybody but in a lot of ways it is kind of a free-for-all out there, right? That's what you think. People are constantly trying to push the limits

or get away with something, right? I mean, look at fucking HSBC. HSBC is a prime example. Yeah, absolutely. Or, you know, doing illegal stuff internally, you know, and they sort it out themselves. Maybe if someone's done something dodgy, the company will help cover it up

and they don't want it to bounce back on them and so you know what i was talking i was talking to um this is when i was in the states some some older friends they're not they're not my friends are like family friends and they'd all work very senior corporate jobs and they'd retired subsequently but this company had like a corporate whistleblower had come out and said to the press or to the authorities like this is fucking disgusting and illegal and you need to do something about it and the company got in big trouble and i remember all the people i was chatting to about it was like three or four of them like older like i said they're like my parents

age sort of thing and they were like you just you don't fucking do that you don't go to the fucking corporate whistleblower fucking disgusting i was like geez that's like the that is just like the fucking mob it's like omerta you know yeah you don't talk you can never like if you're in a meeting and everyone else is like okay we need to do this terrible illegal immoral thing man my desk was filled with whistles i was just waiting for the opportunity to blow the whistle yeah absolutely fuck these stupid companies where is this corporate loyalty that people yeah i know it doesn't make any sense i've never understood that you think the company gives a shit about you they have all their own little tricks for keeping people like on board and

stuff we used to like at hsbc there used to be like a share save right right they fucking did away with the pensions because you know like your pensions the way that pensions are going and pension pots and stuff like that so in the end they were like all right anybody any new people joining the bank uh won't uh get a pension anymore but you could pay into this like share save scheme which was like a discounted stock in hsbc that you just like accumulate in your time working there sort of thing but it was just like another system for making it more difficult for you to leave the company right somewhere else right they'd hook you in with all these like things that you thought were like oh you know i'm looking at my portfolio and i've got like a couple of grand where in reality it wasn't a

couple of grand but you just were made to think that it was more money than it was because it was just another way to get you to to shut up and stay put you're not wrong you know like you know and that's just one example there's millions of things that like companies will do to just keep people uh under the thumb you know what i mean like not thinking about going to get another job because well they get all these benefits right you have all these benefits so you couldn't possibly it's too difficult now to go get another job stuff though you're talking about the bad stuff is like all the ideas that you know you've signed these ndas and we'll sue you or you'll go to prison oh yeah those are the worst ones yeah you know or or like you know those ideas or or you know like uh we'll we'll we'll make sure you can

never get another job and that's very hard if if you're you know if you've got family to support or if you've got any obligations to support no one you know most people are being held on the thumb just by that you know it's don't you know and they're good people too these these people i'm sure that there's tons of good people who are willing to bend their morals to pay for, to feed their family. Um, and so,

you know, I think this is it, isn't it? And, and a lot of the time, not everyone knows the full picture. You know, these guys have maybe seen a few,

a few memos that, so that a company is doing something dodgy. You know, big tobacco is a good example of, of, um, of that where, you know, these tobacco companies knew that nicotine was addictive and then it caused cancer and all these things for 20 or 30 years um before they you know before it sort of was all the whistle

was all sort of blown on it by a couple of people who were disgruntled ex-employees you know who had collected evidence over a long period of time in case they were ever fired and then risked their lives and and future careers you know to i mean it happens it happens in the games industry happens there like look at like blizzard recently where people were people like employees of blizzard were banding together to release information about how they weren't being even paid competitively in the industry. Like lower pay than most other studios. And this, like big you know billion dollar games like that you know rake it in like wow and hearthstone would be getting paid

at least industry standard but it's not even the case like there's like a it was like there's all there's this whole thing where it was like they were being paid low and it was on purpose too there was like memos from people saying like we're not willing to fucking pay like the standard rates or whatever. Like we're going to pay low, but we're going to offer all these benefits instead and all this shit. And it's just like, all right, well,

but I think people are willing to work at blizzard and take that though. It's almost like the management have been like, well, look, you know, you're basically working for Disney. So you get to come to the park every day and hang out with Mickey mouse. So why would we even pay you at all? Yeah. Do you know what I basically working for Disney so you get to come to the park every day and hang out with Mickey Mouse

so why would we even pay you at all do you know what I mean like you should be happy to be working here at all I think that's a big thing that companies have

is they think you should be so fucking delighted that they are even talking to you let alone that you're working there

what are you what are you what are you complaining about money what are you you're working man what do you what do you want you complaining about money i'm just amazed i'm amazed that the that that these companies like blizzard don't feel the need to or even the the the the the the the they've got an obligation to the people who did i'm not no i'm not in it for the money at all i could care less about my own financial situation i'm in it so that you can achieve your dream that's why i'm in it yeah like what the fuck that's what you need to say

the interview for the fucking money like what you know i wouldn't fucking leave my bedroom if i didn't need money i just fucking sleep all day and eat and whatever you know like yeah no i i'm here for any reason other than making money like fuck off that's crazy yeah i don't know like i don't know i don't know where companies get this idea that that you're actually meant to really like them you know what i mean that being being working for a company means that you're essentially now part of some family and and you can't turn your back on them or criticize them or question them because how could you you know we we've deigned to employ you and now you want us to treat you decently oh my god I can't even look at you right now it's like what the fuck like any company I've ever worked for apart from obviously when I work with you guys, I can't fucking stand them.

Like on the whole, I know that all it takes is one fuck up or one downturn in profit. Who do you think they're going to fucking fire? They're not going to say, oh, we couldn't fire him. No, no, we like him too much. Like, no, no, sorry, we need to make some cuts.

You're gone. They don't fucking care. There's no loyalty from the company to the employee. Why the fuck should the employee have loyalty to the company i do not understand it if you want to demonstrate loyalty to your employees good luck and that's awesome and i think that's how you actually build loyalty in employees yeah if you're just gonna fucking pay them the least you can give them the minimum benefits that you can and then be amazed when they're not happy and want to leave go fuck yourselves companies yeah you know i'm talking to hey on the topic of blizzard though

um did you guys hear that um that mike morhaime is is is back in the saddle he's created another company um now that he's he's left blizzard obviously who is he sure a while back the the uh the ceo co-founder of blizzard uh who left uh a while back um didn't really say much at the time, just said, you know, it's time for me to leave or whatever. A lot of people speculated that he wasn't happy with the whole Activision thing or whatever, but nothing really was said. And then a couple of weeks ago, he's announced that he started a new company with a whole bunch of ex-Blizzard alumni, like some pretty big names, people that have worked on some of their bigger projects and there's two studios apparently working on stuff as well and a lot of people are

pretty excited that this could be the return of the blizzard that everybody once knew and loved that has not really um loved much anymore sort of thing you know like i think any any any company that gets that big and has that much success is inherently going to be taken over by management and middle management running things into the fucking yeah well the the there's a couple of things with this um the first one being that um i don't think there's ever been a i i've i've left blizzard to start my own company and it's been a success like like most most like hellgate london um there's uh what's torchlight there's a whole bunch of games that were um were meant to be sort of like oh these are all ex-blizzard guys these games are going to be great that i'd what like i mean i

don't know if they were good and i never played them but like i i mean certainly they don't seem to be popular nowadays or i think one issue a lot of the time is that um just like it's not often that you get an author or a director whose career spans 40 years or whatever and they continually output really good stuff all that time yeah it just it's just really fucking hard there is a limit to how much people can do and yeah i just feel like especially with games if you're following like a rote script and a plan that has been made before then it's gonna be something like like cyberpunk announced last year that they were not going to do have a crunch for cyberpunk and they just said yesterday or whatever that there's gonna be is crunch from

now on right and so they went back on their thing because obviously the game's not finished but they've got this huge huge team now cd project red you know i think originally it was you know it's a relatively small company maybe i don't know that maybe it may be 10 20 i don't know how many guys made the first witcher witcher game but certainly not not very many and then you know they they it grew and grew and grew and bloated and bloated and bloated and you know. And, you know, you look at companies like Riot Games that make fucking League of Legends, right? Yeah. Which is basically done,

but they have 5,000 people working for them and 10 of them are recruiters to get new people in. I'm like, what the fuck are they doing? Well, they just announced like four games last year, but I don't know if any of them... Fair enough. And each of them has 150 or 200 people on them. It's amazing.

Anyway, I'm sure that's how many people they need. Whatever. Fuck it. But I just feel like those people are not being part of that process. You can't feel like you're invested in that product. You're just a cog in the machine. You're just a guy animating a snail. You can't feel like you're invested in the product. These people have no share in the overall success of that. I feel like the passion that you see from an indie developer, one or two indie developers making a game, and they make some incredibly amazing, really polished, really detailed, rich, full of life games that we don't see from AAA studios putting $20 million and 200 people in a complex out in somewhere in America where they all have

free fucking dinner parties on barbecues on the lawn every day together to try and make them all happy and get them excited about your product which you're underpaying them for or whatever. I don't know. I like the idea of a cooperative thing. I like the idea of John Lewis thing. I like the idea of, of John Lewis or whatever, who at least give a profit share to their employees. And that's what, actually, that's what we do at Yogs. Like we have 10% profit share

for the last like three years, which is basically 10% of all profits is split between staff. And it's like, I think it makes people feel like, or at least I think it actually gives people back a proportion of the success that they have created at the end of the day. Like as much as I somehow owed all of the money that, you know, because I created the company, I don't do any of the fucking work really. At least you're honest. I think that's something that we can actually... Can you imagine if big companies like Amazon or Blizzard or anyone gave any percent profit share back to their employees? How much money that would be?

I think if Blizzard gave a 1% profit share, every employee would probably get $10 million fucking dollars. Do you know what I mean? I don't know. Well, maybe not that much, but it's huge. They make so much money, some of these companies. Yeah, it's nuts. It's true.

And on a relatively small staff basis. And I feel like it wouldn't kill them to thank the people who've done the fucking work that's made them that money. I don't know. It's a weird, it's a fluid thing though, right?

Like I think that, I think you're, I think you've got people who would, it's almost like, it's like a perfect storm sometimes. Sorry, I'm trying to explain this, but I'm struggling a bit. I think with some big games that you've seen in the past, like the original StarCraft or even WoW when it came out,

some of these hugely popular games where it's just the right place at the right time, right? And the right people too. You have people who maybe that's the first game they ever worked on and they had a lot of inspiration from another game. The game came out at the right time. It filled a niche or whatever. Like there's probably like 10, 20 sort of like lucky things that happen with a game and the team that's making the game or whatever. And then I think when that game ships and it's out and it's done really well, these people then go down in history, like they obtain this legendary status as like, this guy designed this game, this is the best game. Can't wait to see what he does next and then he does another game and it just stinks right

do you think part of that is because games games if you think about it um i know that i think it might be the difficult second book though no i don't even think it's that i just think the difficult second book like you look at the guys you're of your time like if you make a game that's groundbreaking and fantastic 20 years ago, and you're still making that game 20 years later, it's now dated. Yes. Like you need to suddenly have a completely fresh brand new idea. And you get that a lot too.

That's really hard. They interview designers from like 20 years ago, and it just seems difficult for them to keep up with like what's happening now. You know, they're sort of like, they've got this idea of what they want to do. And maybe they've never still never done it. They've worked on other projects or whatever. But then you read this interview and you're like, fuck me, man. This guy's ideas are like literally 20 years old.

Like you can tell like he is the designer of that time. I completely see this though, right? Like there's this thing that happens where people, sometimes their best years are when they're passionate and their first projects and they've got motivation. You know, it's like they're fresh out of uni or school or wherever they are. And they're like keen to make a mark on the world.

And they've got ideas and they know how the world works. And they're sort of peak of like their, it's like a young footballer, you know, in their early 20s. They're like, they've got ideas and they know how the world works and they're, they're sort of peak of like, they're, it's like, it's like a young football, you know, in their early twenties, they're like, they're like, they've got it.

They're like, they'll be the best they ever are like mentally, physically. And they know what the world's like. They, they're in touch with everything and the mood and the general people. And they're also like somewhere in the middle as well of like the young people who really drive stuff and the older people who are going to adopt it

eventually, or at least they can they know that in their product of their time and they know what the world needs and they make these amazing things and that's that's they're the people who drive innovation but but once they've done that big thing it's hard for them to follow up again after i think it's very hard because they've because they're successful they sometimes like they've made that they've made their the mark they're secure they've got other priorities they don't need to do it anymore they're not motivated in the same way and like i do think it's like if you've had a book that's been a success and everyone wants you to write

another one and you're like cool man i'll write another one but you haven't been thinking about that book for five years no i'm planning it through in your head and coming up with it and you're like i can do another one sure the. The other one was easy, you know, because it was easy because it was easy because, because you'd had all this buildup to it. You know, you'd, you'd had infinite time often, like very often, right. When is someone going to come to a publisher and say, I've had an idea for a book, give me a year to write it. Um, I've not thought about it at all up until now, but, um, I'm going to do it, you know, thought about it at all up until now but um i'm gonna do it you know and that's often what it is yeah that yeah i can see that for sure i mean i don't think

in every case that that is the case but i think that that's a lot more common than than not i mean look at i mean if you look at look at bands as well how many bands first couple of albums were like amazing and then nothing they've done since then was really particularly good there are so many bands and band lifespans as well you know you think of some of like the really big bands um like even big big bands from like the 60s and 70s and stuff like that most of them were only together for about you know five ten years or whatever which is really it's a long time but it's really a short amount of time when you think how long it takes to spin up and get popular and reach yeah reach the heights and and

whatnot you know what i mean like most of these most of those big bands had like i mean the beals but how long were they together for like 10 years yeah like early 60s to like to late 60s yeah but their output was insane though yeah but they're like uh we're done like they're finished they know that they there's there's just isn't the spark there anymore they can't write more music together yeah they've run out well there was lots of like people think it's infinite but resources are finite even the human imagination well it's not just that but people are just people right the egos get in the way they had lots of internal conflicts with each other about all these little things that just started turning into bigger things and those little things become

the focus whereas when you're starting out the focus is we've got no food we have nothing yeah we have nothing and we're just happy to be doing this thing together like it's it's really weird isn't it but you can see how you know like when the Beatles started out, they were in their, you know, late, like late, late teens, early 20s sort of thing. And then their career brought them into like their sort of early to mid 30s, if you like. And you do a lot of growing up in that decade of your life, right? Like you change a heck of a lot. Like I got married when I was 23. I was talking to my wife about this of a lot like i got married when i was 23 i was talking to my wife about this the other day we got married when we were 23 and even from 23 to

31 when we had um like our first child fucking so much changed in those years and it's only it was only like seven eight years but like it was like night and day like because you do you do just become more of an adult as adult things start creeping in right all of a sudden you're you you're you have to be financially responsible you have to like feed yourself you have to feed somebody else you have to prepare things you have to plan stuff like you you get a lot more complacent with certain things like i think you know i think as well you get better at making decisions you have way more energy some of the things we did when we were younger i think what were we thinking and then yeah now i think you know the decisions that we make the larger decisions whether it be for you know the house or financially or all kinds of

from that big stuff down to smaller things you just start to get a better idea of like you've just got more experience you know how to not get ripped off, you know, what you're looking for when it comes to even simple things like we need to get some building work done. You just get smarter about Yeah, about those fine details of life. And I think, well, definitely, when I was in my my 20s, especially, I did all kinds of dumb shit. I was really unhappy. Like I had some great times and and i've enjoyed the complete absence of like at the weekend i can remember sleeping until like fucking midday oh my god yeah i have no reason to get up today so that's cool i think like maybe once or twice since

we've had kids i've slept until like 11 you know like i've just been yeah i've been lucky like my wife just left me to it or whatever. And even then when you wake up, you're like, Oh fuck, this is great. I woke up at 11, but actually all the shit I have to do is still waiting for me to do it. I just have less time to do it in now.

So like your whole day, you're just catching up so that everything can be done. Do you remember that thing your, your, your mom would always say, get up, you're wasting the day. And you'd be like,

yeah, I mean, that's, it's mine to waste. Don't tell me to when to wake up. And and you'd be like yeah i mean that's it's mine to waste uh don't tell me to when to wake up and then you realize when you're a grown-up you shouldn't feel bad you know you're an adult now you don't have to do what your mom says you know there's no shoulds right but the point is lewis that she was a fucking burger no one's gonna yeah that's the point the point is you don't want your parents to ever be right about stuff. Like when they're trying to. She wasn't right, really.

Because like everyone, you've got to understand, like everything you do is not a waste of time. It's contributing to something different. Not sleeping in and missing out on a whole bunch of things that I needed to do. Yeah, but maybe you needed that rest. Maybe that rest is going to mentally recharge you. So you'll approach a different task at a different pace. Like, I think I'm not saying you should wallow in your depression and slob out in bed all day.

But I think that you there is don't feel bad for the decisions you make. You know, sometimes they lead you to places that are OK or better. You don't know, again, like where these things are going to how these things are going to work out to okay or better. You don't know, again, how these things are going to work out, do you? No. Are you basically saying, let the chips fall where they may, everything will work out in the end?

Everything does end up where it is. No, specifically does not. Are you saying in a roundabout way, you've got to know when to hold them and know when to fold them? I believe that's what he's saying, yeah. And know when to walk away when the dealing's done. Yeah.

Right. I think be smart. Be sensible. But respect yourself as well. Look after yourself. Keep your pecker up. Don't beat yourself up, guys. Keep your peckers up.

Don't beat yourself up. We're living in this world where everyone's like, oh, don't throw away that milk bottle. Don't fucking kill a pigeon. And just dolphin all the stuff. Fucking get that stuck in his blowhole and just suffocate. You know, you're killing the ocean. You bad you feel bad all the time you're like oh i shouldn't turn this fucking light bulb in the planet's burning oh i shouldn't wear this

clothes it's made by someone in a sweatshop in romania uh who's underpaid oh i shouldn't buy this game it's made by these guys who make their guys crunch i shouldn't do this i shouldn't do that like if you go through this whole fucking life like like that you'll have a miserable time um you just have to like the opposite of things you've said fucking roll with it yeah i think like now you're sort of all the points that you brought up are legit things that you should be trying to model your life around like you've literally given me lectures about things i shouldn't do or should reconsider because of some some cost down the line and now you're saying fuck it all man you do you if it feels good do it this is this is a complete insane switcheroo flip-flop it doesn't

make sense a huge flip so i'm running for president do the do the close fist flat thumb one minute you're like fuck the man and the next minute you've got your capitalism t-shirt on um and i think the i think the takeaway is that even make capitalism great again with a combined 220 years on this earth none of us three know how the fuck that we're supposed to live or or act or behave or date or chat or eat or recycle we don't know anything we don't know what we're supposed to do we don't want to get up we don't know when to go to bed we don't know what we're supposed to do with with other people i've got all that kind of stuff figured out really like we don't know what our feelings are we don't know you're speaking for yourself here i've got most of this stuff figured

out honestly like uh yeah i've got good we know i've got good systems in place you know like i've got uh like i got a well-oiled machine over here i got a uh i got a fully crewed battleship and we are ready for war you know like the whole we're all just doing our whole team just knows how to do their best at all at all times over here like i feel like we got it all sewn up in that department but if when it comes to like tinder and online dating that's i'd say that's a gray area for yeah we wanted to know more about that but we have covered let's hope you won. Let's hope you won't need to use it. Well, you know what I'm thinking?

I might have a chat with Mrs. F and just be like, can I just go on some dates? Nothing will come of it. I just want to see how it goes. I would love to hear about those trip reports. You will not get a single date, though. I promise you. Thanks. That's my...

You will swipe up a... All right. Well, let's get you some good pictures. You need a picture of you next to a Ferrari I'm going to post exactly what you're going to get okay you should set this up

a white bathrobe that has some stains on it and stuff that you can pose it all my clothes have stains or holes in them I'm wearing a t-shirt right now that I have literally owned for 25 years i'm not even joking this t-shirt is like 25 years old and i'm wearing it right now do you open with the line are we gonna have sex at the end of this is that a good thing to open with uh no because you don't

want to catfish no one people you want to be like this is do you want to you want to open with i'm looking for just someone for as a friend a friend what the fuck i think i'd be straight up i'd be like i've got a i gotta be honest with you here baby um i just want to explore your hoochie coochie uh when all is said and done here i'm you know that's that is the goal either we're gonna have sex at some point this afternoon or i'm gonna have to get the bus to bone town with someone else that's pretty much with someone else right well that'll get you some definite hookups exactly but they'll be disappointed when they meet you p flex that you don't want to go through with it bust a brown through with what go through with the sex no they won't care they'll be relieved

well if you've got that far p flex i will I will say you're a lot better in real life because you're a big man. You're tall. You've got good frame. You know how sometimes when you see someone in 3D, they look better than when they are in 2D? I understand. All this flame is coming my way. Oh, we're going to need to get some better pictures done, period. Because, you know, you're in big trouble, mate.

You won't get any matches. Very, very rude. You know, Flax, you know where I think you would really shine in terms of having pictures done? Like kind of like Napoleon-esque. Anywhere with a light source. You got to get some of those white horse riding trousers with the boots and like a big feathery hat.

Because I think you got that regal look to you like already. Like I think you could get a pose. And I think the ladies would be swooning like if they saw you riding a horse like a modern day elvis presley oh man with a napoleon outfit on a horse i think that could work really well for you is golf sexy no not really oh shit no well i'm playing i'm playing today my first round at two o'clock so wish me luck i bought my clubs I bought my clubs. I bought my clubs.

I got my golf shoes and my golf gloves. Was this all off the back of PGA 2K21? Dude, I played PGA and I was like, it just occurred to me that golf might be fun. Like I quite enjoyed the game. And I was like, you know, I wonder if this would be as fun in real life. Let's find out.

So I did the lessons. And at the end of the lessons, they said you can sign up and join the club if you want to join the academy you spend a year as an academy member you get 10 free lessons with the pro you can play anytime you like after 1 p.m in the week 2 p.m at weekends in you come and i was like done signed up then and there bought a set of clubs they're sitting right here i went to the driving range yesterday near me what kind of clubs did you get to to the list no no these these are these are just wilson's links it was it was this whole set of clubs was 300 quid oh for a full set and i thought that was actually pretty good for something i'm going to use for years hopefully well i mean remember when we were talking about the air conditioning in my garage and i said that it was like two grand he says

too much yeah two grand i mean that's was like two grand he says yeah two grand i mean that's only a couple of sets of golf clubs really and you think this is going to keep you comfortable for a long time buy them by the way i bought them from the pro shop at the club to support the club okay i went i was talking to doug yesterday he was buying a dog groomer from amazon right and he noticed something weird that they were like loads of loads of these dog groomers you can just google it on amazon and they're. And they've got such weird names, okay? And they all look the same, but they're all different brands. So one of them is O'Mork, one of them Petking, Kleborg.

They're all weird names, okay? And they all look the fucking same. Sminica, do you know what I mean? Gosephia. They're all VAL. But they're all the same thing yeah from china yeah shipped from china they all cost like between 20 and 30 quid right which is quite cheap for a electric clippers right but if you go on like alibaba which is the chinese um kind of everything

so um you can get them for like two quid wow like two quid each and so it's just these chinese guys or selling them en masse to the sort of third party resellers or sometimes just most of them are even now chinese companies you can actually see the company so most of them i i looked at were in china but some of them were in lithuania for some reason right i don't know why maybe there's no yeah i wonder why but that's just dog clippers, right? But there's loads of them. Like, Rav's got sent a smartwatch by a fan, and I looked that up on Alibaba.

How much is a smartwatch that looks like a knock-off Apple smartwatch? How much do you think it would cost to make one? 150 quid it would cost. To buy, maybe. How much to make? How much to buy on Alibaba? 10 quid. A fucking dollar.

What? It's like $1. Like a fake Apple watch that actually has a screen, you can plug it in and it does stuff and it collects your phone. Like a fucking dollar. And I was like, what the fuck? Like the whole world is upside down. Surely the fucking ingredients in making it cost more than a dollar. They must do.

Well, this is what I thought. They have to. Even just mass manufacturing it, each thing must cost more than a dollar. They must do. Well, this is what I thought. They have to. Even just mass manufacturing it, each thing must cost more than a dollar to make. It doesn't. It clearly doesn't because they're selling them

for like $1.50 for like, you know, a hundred of them. How much profit are they making on that? Well, they must be making something or else they wouldn't be fucking selling it. Which is crazy.

You've paid for the fees and all this stuff. We live in this insane world. So I just wanted to bring that up just because because i blew my fucking mind because i've bought loads of wanky shit on amazon for like a 10 or 15 quid realize it's absolute shit but you know it clearly has come from can you these resellers and it's been made for a fucking penny can i can order yeah you can yeah you can order 10 dog groomers for $2 each. Fuck me, man.

And fucking, you know, for the same price as you ordered one off Amazon. It might take a while to arrive. That's an hour and 20, lads. We should probably give it a rest for today. All right, that's enough podcast for today. I'll let you know how my golf went next week. Into that. Okay, yeah.

We'll let you know about the golf. Keep us posted. I just wanted to share that madness at the end because it blew my mind. All right. Bye, everyone. Bye. Bye-bye.