Triforce! - Triforce! #156: Biopunk 2077

Episode Date: December 16, 2020

Triforce! Episode 156! Sips just wasn't hyped for Cyberpunk, Lewis is learning to organise his life and Pyrion questions the future of meat! Go to http://manscaped.com and use code TRIFORCE to get 20% off and free shipping! Support your favourite podcast on Patreon: https://bit.ly/2SMnzk6 Music courtesy of Epidemic Sound. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Hello, everyone, and welcome to a festive Triforce podcast. That's what we're doing this morning. I forgot where I was for a moment. Ho, ho, ho, motherfuckers. This is the sound of 10 in the morning for me. Ready? What do you suppose that is? Is that your piss jug from last night?

It's last night's piss jug. No, it's last night's. It's not. Last's not last night's piss jug is it a hot water bottle no it's not this is my heel oh he's got it most streamers are g fueled fucking flax is g fueled h you amazing so so as of when we're recording this jingle jam we're right in the middle of it but by the time this podcast goes out it'll be over and the other thing that's happened this morning is cyberpunk's come out um it's the it's unprecedented the biggest launch on steam of a game yeah well pre before this was terraria with 486 000 concurrent players that's wild cyberpunk last night was over a million yeah um and also i

mean a lot of a lot of people playing on other platforms as well because it's on gog which is sort of their own platform yeah it's it's the biggest game boost for gog i guess too i mean gog is actually pretty good but it's a great yeah it's a great little platform but i think that people are really attached to their steam library you know and it's so convenient and that's because you've got everyone on there already and it's all in the same place and i don't know tracks things as well which is it's kind of like just nice to see oh what have i done this month oh i've played this much of this and this much of this i don't know i wasn't interested in playing the game really at at launch like i'm still i'm still not overly like i got it I bought it but um I um

I noticed a lot of people got like early access to it you know like some some people like you know like the obvious ones you'd see like you know big streamers or whatever getting early access and stuff and then a lot of other people got early access to it as well and I'm just left wondering like uh where's mine like I never got any of the access this is like the twitch rivals stuff all over again like i didn't hear one thing from one person like nobody not even a whisper not even a hint so i'm just thinking maybe that's it maybe i'm done you know maybe 2020 is like been a good year for me but like at the same time maybe it's the last year you know what i think it is is that i think most of it is that they want it to go to youtube and if you're not like regularly uploading let's plays and playthroughs and previews and shit to YouTube,

that they just kind of take you off the list. Do you think that's it? No, I don't think that's it. I think it's, it's just, it's just oversight. I also,

there's so many content creators and streamers. Now there's thousands of thousands, you know, they can't hit every single one up or else they don't go send any copies. I mean, every chump in his basement is streaming now. So what if you send it to send it to sips you know they they got about in their garage they need to do what about chumps in their garages though like i feel like yeah okay chumps in their basements one thing but i'm a chump in my garage yeah that's a step up that's

better so i i was i got it last night and i played about an hour and a half of it and i played it again this morning as soon as I woke up. We saw. We thought you weren't going to flip it to an hour. I know. We thought you were going to be a no-show today. Luckily for you guys, I just glanced at the clock and I was like, oh, it's 9.59. Shit.

And I ran downstairs and hewed up, did the dishwasher and then came up here. I feel like I'm already a cyberpunk guy. You're like a teenage boy, aren't you? Just running downstairs. Oh, sorry, Mom. I'm going to play. I'll see you later. I've got friends.

All right, bye. And then you're back upstairs. I launched it. I bought it yesterday. I downloaded it, and I launched it. I didn't even play five minutes. I didn't even check out the character creator. I got into the character creator,

and I was just like, maybe I'll play this some other time. I'm really enjoying it. Well, it was like 1am when it came up, didn't it? No, I get it. Part of me is a bit envious. I wish I had that because this game is so hyped

and everybody's been looking forward to it and stuff. I wish I had that Christmas morning feeling about it, but I just don't. I've been there with Game Watchers before where everybody's hyped for a game and you're just not. And you kind of go along with the hype and get it and sort of try to get into it and it just never happened but you feel like i like i don't know what the feeling is it's not like jealousy or whatever but i feel like i feel like like i'm sneering at people that are like excited for it you know what i mean like i'm some sort of like like fun sponge or like no no i get you are

really not it's that it's it's you see overexcited the hype yeah the the it almost looks childish yeah yeah people are completely so excited about this and you don't want to be seen to be like that and it's kind of off-putting seeing this this kind of attitude towards it where everyone's into it so you almost don't want to be because that's how we were i guess a lot of people felt the same way about me when i was waiting for junkyard simulator to release which was my 2020 game you know like that that was my cyberpunk i was looking so did it come out well it came out like you know the the usual like the the prologue which is like the demo level, came out.

And it was really bad. Oh. Unbelievably bad. And I just had, I'd hyped it up so much. I thought it was just going to be this really awesome game that I could just dad out hardcore and like crush some old cars and stuff like that. And it's just not like that. They crowbarred in this awful tutorial that you can get stuck in you can't even get past it like at certain points it bugs out i love how this is your side it takes so long

to get up to the point where it bugs out as well and it's not enjoyable like you drive a car like you okay it's a game it's meant to be a game about running a junkyard and you have to drive a car down this really awful road that's bland as hell like the scenery and stuff it's just like i don't i don't know what they were thinking anyway i'm not like that bitter about it but that was my gonna be my christmas morning feeling right i like i wanted to launch that game i wanted to junk some cars i wanted to like sift through some garbage and everything and i couldn't even do it and and i was so disappointed and now i'll never love again is that what it is you've just had your

heart broken one too many times this year but not even just that one time but that one time is devastating enough i actually can't remember you i do remember you talking about it and and i remember thinking why is he so excited for junkyard simulator well i just thought it is very much your type of game yeah but i i saw the trailer and everything i was like this doesn't seem as this doesn't seem worth getting that hyped about i hope he's not disappointed and yeah sadly you were and sadly i was yeah another one another one that i really liked which wasn't disappointing we actually delivered was that hardship uh hard cock shit breaker um ship ship breaker you know that one oh yeah now that was good that that's that just did what it said on the tin bust ships you didn't have to drive down a road or anything you didn't have to did

you play tin can yet yeah i did yeah it's good it's good yeah I like the idea of it I just um I just didn't like the the feeling of not really knowing like exactly what to do I I feel like because you have to junk old parts in that recycling machine I found that whole system really clumsy and just a little bit off-putting either because it kind of felt like like you said but i i mean the the reason it's there is because you have to decide what you can live without sure so you're like i don't really need the on off switch for this set of lights and yeah i'll junk that you know and so i don't i don't think that that at the start you should need to do that though i think there should be one spare battery right like there would be in an escape pod i'm assuming right i mean oh

so you're thinking it should start off a little slower just have a spare so that yeah and then you can just sort of like get your bearings rather than yeah you hit an asteroid belt and all of a sudden it's like okay something's broken what do i do like i have to junk some old shit i don't know if i'm going to need this or whatever i just feel like ease ease you in a little bit and then ramp up the difficulty you know what i mean it's kind of like a little bit and then ramp up the difficulty you know what i mean it's kind of like a roger like in that way yeah because you are inevitably going to fail like there's there's no end game it's just that eventually enough stuff breaks that you you perish and it's like trying to get the longest score that you can sure but i mean the thing is

like from a pacing point of view as well getting up to the slogging through 25 minutes and getting to that one where the EMP thing goes off and then just melts everything. It happens and you're like, okay, yeah, I think I know what to do next time. But man, do I really want to spend 25 minutes getting to that point again? You know what I mean? Like it's like, I like roguelikes

and I like that sort of, but there needs to be more, right? There needs to be some, like if it's going to be like that and it's the 25 you have to there has to be some benefit for you learning that through a mistake or through dying and then restarting going back through 25 minutes again to get through right like a real roguelike would right because i kind of you'd have like some xp or some new experience or some new tool that maybe you could use or something but this is just like now you're fucking dead you've got to start 25 minutes of garbage just to get back to the

point to try it again you know i think i think what what makes it annoying in that regard is that um it's kind of a time-based game right so it's like it's not like like you said it's not like you've you've you've figured out this first bit like in hades say where you go through and it's not like you've you've you figured out this first bit like in hades say where you go through and it's a lot of the same levels over and over again but they're slightly different and you're improving as you go and you know like you said you're unlocking stuff um and i also feel like normally in a game once you've cracked that first bit you blitz through it but instead because of the design you still have to wait for you're just waiting there for five minutes or whatever. Yeah.

But I thought as a concept, I love the idea of being. Oh, the concept is fantastic. And I think it could be really good. It's clearly early as well. So, like, I mean, I'm not so sort of like narrow vision that I can't like see that it's going to be great later on. But with a lot of these games that are made by one or two developers or whatever, and you get the earlier versions, it's kind of hard to be excited about it because what you get is just so limited.

And you know that there's potential there, but then you just have to wait years for it to finally realize that potential sort of thing, right? I played some Don't Starve together yesterday, which I've played a lot of don't starve and i really like don't starve and i played some don't starve together a while back and at the time when i played it it was kind of like that right because clay are a little bit like that they're a great great studio but they release stuff really early and it's really bare bones for a long time until they just start getting into a groove of adding stuff. Like their content release schedule ramps up a little bit. Oxygen not included was the same.

And now, now don't starve together after like a year. Isn't it? There's so much shit. It's unbelievable. Like mind blowing how much stuff is in it. But at the time I remember thinking like, this is really great.

Like I love like everything that's in this, but there just needs to be more. And then you come back a year later, and there is tons more. And that's, you know, that's always like a nice feeling or whatever. But I just think Clay are really good at sort of doing the early alpha, early beta access stuff. These three types of games are all so different, right? I mean, you talked about Tin Can, which is basically a kind of it's like a puzzle rogue thing it's like a puzzle short single player kind of bomb game yeah you have to quickly fix things and you can't really add too much text it's kind of a one-off experience that's good right i love playing a game which throws you into a completely different

experience you're like wow i'm on a spaceship now right i'm doing things i'm trying to fix it i'm trying to survive and then like after two hours you're like yeah that was a good experience but i'm never gonna play that again you know and but whereas don't stuff together actually not include these are these are kind of longer like more sandbox type games where you can kind of take things at your own pace there's different ways to progress yeah there's lots of things to unlock it's a very slow slow, gradual effort thing. And then Cyberpunk, which is a multi-million dollar, the biggest game of the decade, drawing on every single genre of game that have been successful and popular.

It's the king of the action RPG, if you like. It's the pinnacle of what we've experienced over the last 10 years. And they can't really make it too different. They can't innovate. They can't try weird things that haven't been done before because they can't risk it you know it has to be familiar to people people have to know what they're going to get it's like it's very very polished it's got celebrity guests it's a story-based game sure it's got side quests like the witcher 3 but once you're done you're done as well and it's got a i don't know however long

our main campaign and however many side quests and And sure, they could do DLCs with another 10 or 12 hours of content. But again, it is that package of like, that's it. You know, how much time you were playing Don't Starve together with Glarms yesterday. Yeah. That base that he built is like something crazy. Oh, thousands of hours. It's like 8,000 hours. More hours than I've played any game on Steam in my, whatever,

however long I've had Steam for, however long I've been creating content for. Like I've played, say, a lot of Fallout 4, but it's only 400 hours compared to like the 3,000, 4,000 hours he must have played Don't Starve Together for. Jesus. It's insane. It's absolutely nuts.

The amount of time and effort that's gone into creating what he's created in that game. And that's the into creating what he's created in that game and that's the that's that's the difference right we have like these these these completely different experiences in games you know um hype hype hype and sort of like um collective uh hype thinking is it's such a weird thing isn't it because like with cyberpunk i understand the hype and i understand that cyberpunk is a franchise that exists beyond this game as well right there it's like there's like a board game or something there's something i know i don't think people know about leading into this right then again like has added to their excitement people know of cyberpunk genre right okay people know of like

the kind of okay that that you know that that net net hacker augmented kind of world you know it's certainly a popular fiction yeah yeah yeah trope which i have enjoyed you know i'm sure cyberpunk draws on some actual uh stories from somewhere like the witch yeah i thought yeah i don't think i don't think it's like something which people are already invested in the same way it It's not a Marvel Avengers game. Okay, but so some people are excited in that aspect. Some people are excited because they love RPG games. Some people are excited because they love story games and stuff.

And it's a weird one because I feel like I should be like that. But if I look back, realistically, if I look back to all the games I've ever played and the games that I've enjoyed and stuff, story driven games I've played in my own time, very few. I've played most of the story driven games that I've played have been on stream with like an audience that I can interact with, right? Like I played GTA 5. I would have never played through all of GTA 5 by myself in isolation, in a room without anybody to talk to without an audience or whatever I just wouldn't have enjoyed it you know what I mean I would have not paid attention to half the cut scenes or the story I would have just become very

task driven in the end with the fetch quests 90% of those games are just a bad long movie some of them do feel like that i mean some of them really stand out obviously but through so through content creation i'm more interested in playing story driven games but i'm pretty sure that i would never seek them out um in isolation by myself you love the witcher well i like the witcher but i liked playing it with it like knowing that somebody was watching me play it again i don't know if i would have played that just by myself not being a content creator for me it's completely the opposite i i would much rather have the private experience of playing the story and goofing about and doing what i want to do and taking my time and and you know fucking up and reloading and not worrying about it

and like i for me the idea of playing a multiplayer game or anything like that on my own is like weird like that's mostly what I play, right? Is multiplayer games. Yeah. That's like what I like playing. Whereas like the kind of games like Junkyard Simulator and stuff, I would only ever play on stream because I basically don't really enjoy them. See, I'm the opposite.

I would play those like alone or I love playing them on stream too, but I would play them alone as well. Like if I'm playing something alone, I'm playing something like Factorio or Satisfactory or something where I can just build stuff. You know what I mean? It's like playing, for me, it's like just playing quietly with Lego, you know? Like I just-

Interesting. I just, I just, that's, I've always been like that. City builders, management games, whatever. We're all quite different because I won't play the single player and I won't play the builder, but I'll play the kind of things that are in the middle like something that holds my attention through being a game but also has a decent story so like i mean that's why my last two games of the year were uh the outer worlds sorry the outer

wilds right right and um obra dinn you know because they were such good they had a little story that you had to uncover yourself yeah it was quite mysterious but also there was a game there i loved see i loved oberdin but i loved streaming oberdin as well i loved the interaction and stuff like and also i got stuck also oberdin if i played it by myself i really would have really enjoyed it as well oberdin just for me stands out as probably one of the best games i've ever played i just loved it it's amazing it's amazing it was it was so good um and what was that space station game i played this year that's quite short it was like four hours long it's quite old now um is it the one where you are like the robots and then it's kind of like a system shock kind of rip off that thing or not no but i can't remember god i've got so

many games on my steam library though holy crap you know what's funny about cyberpunk is obviously because the the idea of cyberpunk as a genre is so fixed in a way that i think if you describe say fantasy or sci-fi is not as fixed cyberpunk is very defined and it was defined by just a few things early on in its sort of genesis blade runner neuroman Yeah. Everything comes from that. So when I heard it was set in Cyberpunk, I thought, okay, you know, that's cool. I find that I like the idea of the body modification and technology and like corporations and everything.

But it's not like Cyberpunk 2077 has some brand new take on Cyberpunk. It is literally exactly what it says on the tin. It is Cyberpunk. So it is literally exactly what it says on the tin it is cyberpunk so it is just exactly large corporations if people are eating food on the street it's going to be some kind of japanese food or chinese food with neon signs everywhere loads of neon signs very blade runnery yeah um now i i quite like that because i really like the blade runner and Neuromancer. I read it when I was a very young man

and had a major effect on me. Like, you know, as a sort of future shock book, I thought, wow, this is like amazing. I can't wait for this future where you can just plug into some kind of crazy network where you can talk to other people because this is pre-internet. And I remember thinking, wow, this is just like unbelievable.

But it's weird because as a genre it hasn't hasn't changed it's basically remained this very similar thing i don't know how you push that genre though i don't know how you innovate on it you know it is really just sort of locked in isn't it it's kind of like medieval fantasy like there's a couple of different things that they've done with medieval fantasy sometimes like the game might be more tilted towards like it might be more magical or more magical or more like more satanic somehow like diablo or something like that like but like think about the difference between the witcher and kingdom come which was magic and yeah you know monsters and stuff and kingdom come was literally

a medieval story no medieval you yeah. No, medieval. You didn't like it? Just joking. Oh, dude, it was so scuffed. It's a game that I love to hate. I really enjoy it. It was so scuffed. I finished it.

I'm the same, actually, on that. But it was such a weird game, man. It was just... There were so many fucking infuriating aspects to that game. Yeah. And the combat has to be the worst designed combat. I've never played a game with worse Oh, just flex you got to cut that bit out

I mean honestly that just the fucking the the squealing neck bearded fedora wearing nerds are gonna all come out I mean, this is the best combat ever in any game I don't care, they're wrong In terms of in terms of 1v1 Combat I thought it was quite fun doing the duels and stuff like that But the moment you have to fight more than one person it's fucking awful i'm sorry but it is fucking awful it took me a long time to be able to kill somebody in that game and uh and when i eventually did it was just

so unsatisfying it was just the the sort of reward for the amount of effort that you have to put in you get so much armor if you kill the right guys you get loads of yeah yeah yeah in the end like It was just the sort of reward for the amount of effort that you have to put in. You get so much armor if you kill the right guys. You get loads of fucking armor. In the end, I had a good system. You've got to remember that your character starts off as just a peasant. Yes. So you literally cannot fight. Even if you know the moves, you suck.

So it is satisfying to see your guy grow. And by the end of the game you are like kicking ass yeah which is quite quite satisfying i enjoyed that but fighting against more than one opponent you ended up just having to back up constantly and all right you know maybe if i was fighting three people i would just continually move backwards over across a vast landscape it just feels silly yeah it doesn't feel cinematic it kind kind of felt like in terms of like jankiness and bugs and stuff, it was like a Bethesda game on crack. Oh, it was hilarious.

Like there was so many times where like I'd go and like interact with like the potion brewer and like fly up into the sky. Like I'd get off my horse and the horse would just like bug out or disappear or whatever. Like, I mean, and it was funny. It was good fun. Like I think overall the game is pretty good, but there were really some. There's a lot of scuffed stuff.

They're making a new one. Apparently there is going to be a second one. But I mean, I mean, I think they're a much smaller studio than, than, than some. I mean, when I think about Witcher 3 to me that was like there were bugs but it was such a polished game from the outset. And honestly I know people are saying there's a lot of bugs in Cyberpunk I haven't seen any yet. There are a couple of slightly odd design decisions. There's a big patch coming up for it apparently like today or tomorrow like a day one patch that's going to fix a lot of stuff. Well it

went gold about a month ago so you know a month of work is probably gonna have a lot of changes but i've enjoyed it i i've read some people saying that it's only so so i've enjoyed it because it's kind of like it's got deus ex stuff in it where you can i mean i've gone for more of a hackery route so my lad is like a nerd basically and i let's make him you know i can crack doors and i can hack this that and the other because i love that it's much more interesting to me to solve the puzzles and the fights that way but yeah i'm i'm like like the wow expansion i'm personally i'm not playing it but i loved i love seeing that people are happy with it and playing it you know what i mean it's a game that i've enjoyed in the past and i would never like i would never sort of like uh begrudge somebody having fun playing something, obviously.

I think to me, the game isn't so much about the actual game. And I also don't expect things to last forever in the same way that I played the new WAN expansion and I'm kind of done with it now and I feel like I'm happy with that. I know that the game has got bits of it that are built to come back every day and come back every week. And every time I encounter one of those bits,'m like it i die a little inside and i know that i do you know i mean like every time i encounter something and it's like you can't play again until next week i'm like well that that that is something that like makes me sad yeah um and but at the same time i do like flitting between different worlds and i think that's one of the joys that we have with gaming and with books and with other

things that, you know, I'm constantly one day I'll be, you know, in steampunk, kind of medieval steampunk, clockpunk, whatever it is, clockwork stuff, you know, land. And then the next day I'll be in hard, hard sci-fi space and everyone's frozen on a ship flying to another planet. And then the next day where, you know, somewhere else we're in fallout which is more like atomic punk isn't it you know and so it's again a completely different yeah i i much prefer that sort of setting i i i feel like i enjoy any any setting i really like survival games i like the sort of like you against everything um you know aspect you know like i think i'd enjoy cyberpunk more if uh you

weren't just like a citizen in some big blade runner city or whatever and you could just sort of do your own thing a bit more you know like have like a little shack where you could like collect stuff or do stuff with that stuff i know i fucking love it i love it i love i love i love I think you secretly want to be like a her somewhere I love the sort of starting from nothing stories you know like you're just like you live in a cardboard box and you have a couple of things that are yours and you

just work your way up through this It is very satisfying to buy a house in a town and put stuff in it there's some element of that which is very satisfying and I mean that's the openness of the bethesda games and versus kind of the the more locked in story of things like i played a bit of assassin's creed valhalla and that has a little bit of you know building and city sort of management and bringing back resources to sort of you know get your people out there and i i i think it's it's a these are great games and

wonderful to like it's nice to be suddenly a viking you know and going around doing that sort of stuff and i don't really i i'm not like overly like again i think i could play any game with any setting as long as like the mechanics so as long as it's set in a shack yeah it involves a shack in some way some sort of fishing or gathering or hunting or like um you could have a trophy room or whatever put me anywhere and i'm happy you know like i don't mind like if i can if i can like customize something or you know make my car look different to anyone else's car or whatever like those like little mechanics i i'm such a sucker for so here's one thing that i've been doing which is a bit weird i've got like um a little cupboard next to my

kitchen which is supposed to be like a pantry is this in real life in real life which i've never really experienced having before and i've just really originally used it as just storage for like all the extra crap that i've brought along with me like i don't know old vr kits and old boxes and you know i mean like you keep loads of boxes for stuff and you're like oh do i because if this what if the tv breaks am i gonna have to send it back in the box i've kept that you know you just keep this shit don't you um and i put like suitcases in there and crap anyway i remember i remember one time we went to america we went and visited this was when we visited maker america we went and visited this

was when we visited maker we visited this this there was this pr lady who knew the wu-tang clan and all this stuff yeah yeah she was yeah she was great lovely yeah really nice and we went and visited her dad who lived in this sort of retirement town on the lake it's where i fell into the lake and lost my glasses on the video anyway they lived in this house and in his garage i'm sure i've talked about this before he had like everything he had a really organized setup of everything he had he had um glasses as far as the eye could see he didn't have the one thing i lost no but he had like tins of stuff he had batteries he had toothpaste he had like everything okay so and sometimes you have a box full of old doorknobs some yeah honestly he had everything and sometimes when i'm you know in my flat i'll run out of something i'll run out of i

don't know let's just say toothpaste and i'll think back to that moment and i'll think why am i running out of toothpaste that guy if he ran out of toothpaste he could just pop into his garage and go to the shelf which was labeled toothpaste yeah but you live in an apartment though lewis you don't it looked like a little shop in his garage and i always but i've started to i've got a little shelf now in my pantry with all this extra stuff five five toothpastes on there well it's got like like extra it's like organized you're almost you're almost ready to run a house and have children lewis this is the first step you know buying more toothpaste than you need so that you have i think it's come from my developing way i've played games and become

more organized in use i used to play games a little bit like i i lived in a house where there was just shit everywhere. I didn't have any organizational structure. Like, you know, I've just had toilet rolls lying around, doing like the bottom of the shoe cupboard or whatever, you know. And anytime I needed a toilet roll, maybe there'd be one in there. Maybe they wouldn't. Okay.

Isn't it the worst though when you use the last bit of toilet paper and you're in the middle of like a pretty messy one and you've run out of toilet paper and you have to the middle of like a pretty messy one and you've run out of toilet paper and you have to get up with a just a shit full of like an ass full of shit and go and find another roll of toilet paper yeah you have to like gingerly put your pants back on yeah and you're like you're not sure whether you're gonna like yeah but you're you're really you you sort of you pull them up but not all the way up because you don't want your underpants to ride up into that everyone's done it everyone has experienced this at some point in their life so much yeah um like or you

sometimes at the office you'll do it and then you'll like stagger into the next store like with your trousers like half down oh you can't well imagine you're in the middle of the stagger you think the coast is clear and somebody comes in fuck me that's got to be awkward right pants around your ankles staggering that's the larry david shuffling from one stall to the other to get the toilet paper oh my god just bad decisions but no i so i want to try and avoid situations like that from now on by being more organized and um i i've started to take some steps and i don't know just it was just nice it just made me feel i don't know prepared you know just nice. It just made me feel, I don't know, prepared, you know? So I got some packs of rice and stuff. I'm not doomsday prepping.

I've only got a shelf. But I feel like I've got more supply. This is the equivalent in the drug world of the first time you ever smoke weed, though. It's just a gateway to then becoming a prepper. You realize this, right? But I think that would be kind of cool. Next thing you know, you're going to have a full bunker with like 20 gallons of spare ketchup down there and stuff.

I want someone, if there's on me apocalypse, obviously I'm going to just die straight away, but I want someone to break into my flat and find a load of supplies and be like, wow, this guy was a nerd. This guy had a lot of stuff, yeah. Look at all this weird vegan cheese that he's got. and be like, wow, this guy was a nerd. This guy had a lot of stuff, yeah. Look at all this weird vegan cheese that he's got.

This is never going out of date because it's basically plastic. Oh, I had a question for you, lads. Something I read in an article that they finally made lab-grown chicken. Yeah. Like they cracked it. I think they're Japanese scientists did it. Right. And it's like they cracked it. And think they're Japanese scientists did it right and it's like they cracked it and it's literally

Chicken that they've grown not from another piece of chicken, but just like in a lab with the ingredients. They've like made chicken Yeah, how many vegans? Would say yeah, that's fine. I'm switching back or you know, I'm happy to eat fat chicken Yeah, is it because no animal has suffered nothing no yeah nothing has suffered would that be acceptable to you i personally i don't see that as being any better than like micro protein based um you know meat free products i think i'd rather actually eat the micro protein based stuff because at least that just comes from yeah the mushroom based one yeah yeah and me too i i don't think i would eat lab chicken but the flavor would be the flavor would be chicken rather than mushroom no but i mean like the flavorings they put on some of this stuff

i don't know if you'd really be able to fully tell the difference like i think i think where people would want to eat chicken is because like you can prepare meat differently right like you couldn't buy fake meat and then prepare it to like a michelin grade um you know like a steak or something like that you know what i mean there's there's elements of a real steak that will always be juicier taste better um flavor infused with seasoning and stuff. I don't think you could ever get a meat free thing to that standard. So that's why I think people would still eat meat over not eating meat. But how many people would say no, even if it's grown in? Yeah, I wouldn't. Like, again, personally, I wouldn't bother. The only time maybe I'd be

tempted is that if they grew the chicken, it's like lab chicken, but it was like really plump and juicy and, you know. Yeah, yeah. It's indecisive. Whatever. I mean, eventually you will not be able to tell. But the thing is, I'm so far down this road now. I've been a vegetarian for so long that, you know, I just wouldn't bother. Personally, I wouldn't change over.

I guess for me, like, like yeah i don't need it like i i feel like i've not eaten meat for so long that i i'm not if if for example i went on a to a restaurant and they didn't serve anything but they did have some lab grown chicken i'd be like fuck it i'll try it do you mean i'm not gonna i'm gonna tear my nose up on it but if there was a a veggie or vegan alternative i'd probably have that instead because i'm used to it and also i'm not eating is a thing which i don't know maybe i'm not super in love with every food i feel the same i can just i feel the same i'm not i'm not attached to food and in a lot of ways i just find it it gets in the way necessary yeah i just feel like interesting i would just i've said this so many times before but i'll say

it again if i could take a pill in the morning that would fill me up and i wouldn't have to eat like for again for the rest of the day i would be happy like i i've known this about you for a long time tips and i'm not preparing food sitting down to eat food like i just like i can't be bothered i love food and i love you know i love eating stuff don't get me wrong it's one of the big joys of life but at the same time like i decided to become a veggie because of health reasons i just felt i just read and believe came to believe that eating animal products was not very good for you and i didn't need that extra worry in my life if you like and i just didn't just feel like it was necessary so i stopped and i don't i it was so once i'd stopped it was very hard to go back like actually thinking about eating a raw piece of

chicken kind of turns my stomach really a little bit the the whole um i think the whole i don't want to be feeling that way if i'm you know if i'm presented with a piece of chicken it will like make me go i don't i i mean maybe the the lab grown meat stuff feeds into other advancements that could maybe help medically or whatever at some point but like i just don't know what the point is when there's already alternatives that are that are fine you know what i mean like you can get like plant-based chicken products or whatever and it's like and they're fine they taste pretty good like you know you know what they you know what's in them for the most part you know what i mean like why why have they bothered to try to make chicken in a lab is i guess what i'm asking yeah what's the

what's the point it stops a lot of cruelty i know but like why not just try this plant-based stuff that exists already i don't think it's for us though is it no i know it's not for us but you know what i mean like i just i don't i don't i don't know why people are so it's obvious hell bent on eating cheaper no no no it's not just that i mean for one thing it it would it would solve a lot of the problems of things like the pollution caused by mass farming sure it would be much easier and cheaper as lewis says to just pour in a bunch of ingredients into a one end of a thing and it's it's your dream factory sips you put things in one end and something comes out the other that's literally

the whole point just creates more problems though it creates or creates it sounds like it does sound like a biological you know like it's like a biopunk you know how all of this like dystopian future you know all that like the big you know like like soy products you know like have become really popular right soy milk or like different alternatives and stuff like that any anything that passes a certain threshold and becomes like mass produced mass farmed and stuff just introduces new environmental damage right you know like look at palm oil now like palm oil is cheap it's in everything it's like a disaster it's it's just the new thing that is just going to screw us over somehow right like they've they've moved past um like old ways of polluting and have just found

new ways to pollute through mass production you know what i mean there's always going to be a cost i suppose environmentally but that but that's the thing a lot of people are fixated on the cost you know like you just said oh it's going to reduce the waste of chicken yeah no it just creates new waste like in other areas so we we move we move past like live chicken waste and we move into like some weird new chemical waste right but the whole argument of vegetarianism is that it morally, it's impossible to argue that killing an animal for food when alternatives exist is a moral position that you can take. You have to opt out and say, yes, I'm making an immoral choice, but it's my choice to make. That's the whole point.

So there's no moral argument for raising an animal specifically to eat it when there are alternatives that don't require you to kill something. That's the argument, right? So if you don't have to kill anything, morally speaking, this has to be a better solution. But you, in a roundabout way, do kill stuff, though. This is the argument I always make, like with vegans and stuff, too. You can't say that you're for animal rights and and for pure veganism on one hand and then on the other hand support things that destroy the environment and the habitats of these animals that you care so much for in the first place you

know i mean like so anything anything that's produced on a mass scale will inevitably destroy environment and habitats which is which is completely countering your point in the first place. Okay, but we do still need to eat. Of course we do. I'm not saying that, but I'm just saying you got to think about the point is we are going to have an impact. Can we lessen that? If this lessens the impact that has to be a positive step. I mean, we can't just say, oh, it'll be another problem. I'm sure it will be. It lessens it in the immediate, but then when it becomes mainstream, the impact becomes either equal or maybe slightly more or maybe just slightly less.

I don't know if that's provable. Well, I don't think it needs to be provable. I think it does need to be provable. I feel like it's just common sense. No, but you can't just say that. There's 8 billion people to feed on this right but if you look at look at cattle farming for example it's a big polluter a big polluter because not only do you have all this land dedicated to just cows and millions and millions of cows killing those cows then you

have the methane that the cows produce and all the rest of it that's obviously a bad thing now if you didn't have that side of beef production, whilst there might indeed be huge fields of whatever they make the beef out of, we would have cut out the methane pollution. Now, you're saying, well, there automatically has to be some other thing just as bad to replace that, because otherwise, how could you do it? I mean, I just think, well, then why try anything? Why try to improve anything?

Because it'll just end up some crops are definitely better than others like oats you know oats are obviously very low impact they don't need much water they're like pretty low impact but they do need the land don't get me wrong but for example almonds you know require like a hundred times as much water and as and as a result that's a big problem. You know, there are different crops, different levels of thing. And if you can, you know, make a beef that is made out of oats instead of, you know, beef, then fucking that's obviously a positive, you know, influencer on the planet. But my question is, what happens if we just don't need to eat pea flakes? What happens if we just become like Tesla events?

Yeah, what if we're just brains in a jar and we don't have to well we still need energy where's that going to come from space electricity right what's going to generate the electricity thank you emails i won't i won't piss and poo emails emails you have to you have to send a thousand emails thank you emails to power your jar brain it's like a it's like a dynamo yeah yeah you just have to constantly be productive right but oh my god could you imagine that would be it that's some fucking cyberpunk shit right well you've got to keep moving to to be fed otherwise you've got to keep working or else you just drop but you'd have to put in more energy than you get out or you die yeah so you're saying we first first all right step one elon i hope you're listening

i know he's a i know he does step one you need to invent a perpetual motion machine obviously yeah uh because otherwise we're gonna the if we have to run to generate the energy or send emails to generate the energy to feed ourselves now via via our cyber stomachs there's going to be we're going to be losing energy the whole time. Okay, now we don't need the petrol motion machine. As long as you're creating something. So imagine you're working on making, I don't know, something that can be given credits, right? Oh, so you're saying it's more like a payment system?

Yeah. Okay, so they're literally going to be monitoring you and saying, well done, you worked hard today. So you're working in the future box factory. And they press the nutrition button and you get some food yeah you're making the box you're in the box factory every box you make you know you have to make like 100 boxes but then after any boxes you make power you right i mean that is essentially how society works anyway because you have to pay for food i'm just saying we just cut out the middleman now it's direct to your stomach

yeah oh my god i don't think it's something that gets solved in our lifetime that's the thing like there's always going to be little steps like throughout i mean there's been tons of steps right since we were born up until now there's been changes and some of them have increased increased increased and become like bigger changes or whatever but like you know lab-grown meat there is is always like going to be a little bit controversial equally growing um human organs in a lab is is controversial like there's there's a lot of like people pushing back on it there's a lot of people who are for it because of the lack of i think those are organs for transplants and shit like

that like i think those those are just bumps in yeah but this this stuff this stuff just takes forever to to get oh yeah i forget about our lifetime it's not much it's going to change but i think in future we can see a general direction that things are going yeah you're right like look there's there's eight billion people on the planet and the planet is only so big and can only support so many people and you know but we also can predict that the population is probably going to level off at around 13 billion and so we could do some calculations on the back yeah just carry the four and uh you get one one repeating of course if you if you grow this many food and make this much water and you know use it this way you know you can sustain these systems for x amount of time you know and sure

like we are creating a lot of waste and we're we're using things up if you like um and and it can't carry on like that potentially forever but you know that's that's that's something that we don't have to worry about immediately because we currently still have millions of people who are dying so there's so much stuff that people just don't really think about. You know what I mean? Like, okay, you order something from Amazon. Say you order like a whatever, a new pair of shoes or whatever. The components that go into those shoes,

the whole production line has involved probably killing some animals along the way, producing a lot of waste, producing a lot of pollution and stuff like that the packaging that it comes in not only will it come in its own packaging but then it has to come in amazon packaging for for post as well which is um you know what i mean like how is any of this stuff sustainable amazon aren't growing their own forests and and then cutting down trees and stuff you know what i mean like some people do that and and it's good and it's a good step or whatever but a lot of people don't do it because it's still we're we're still in a society we're still in an economy that is that that is is looking to make massive amounts of money uh by doing things as cheap as possible

right and as as long as that exists, it feels kind of hopeless, right? Like it's never really going to get better until we can move past that. I think it feels like humanity is running a deficit, you know, at the moment. The technology we have and the amount of hungry people we've got and the amount of education we've got,

it feels like we're trying to just scrabble to feet and fix all the holes in the leaky bucket, you know. And I think that, you know, in the future, hopefully we will be able to make something. Maybe all it needs is for just the population of humanity to level off and start shrinking, you know. And people to be educated across the world and realize that, yeah, maybe we're not going to have so many kids, you know. I think that's the biggest thing. I think that the biggest thing you can do on your carbon footprint, you know, forget about all the Amazon packaging, forget about vegetarianism, forget about taking into the continental flights. The biggest effect you can have is not to have, not to do the one thing that we were kind of

naturally designed to do. That's the worst thing you've ever said. It's true. That is the worst thing you've ever said. It's true, though. It's weird, isn't it? Isn't it weird? No, it's not weird. You're weird. That's fucking hilarious.

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you and to your testicles you're welcome what else have you lads been up to this week oh shit i've been playing i've been playing a lot of among us which um i know but listen the thing is the the nice thing about it is you can't binge on it you You know, like I can't just fire up Among Us in my spare time and play it. Like you have to have an organized group. So it's kind of like a lot of the time you got like blue balls with it, right? So like I'm always like scrounging around trying to find a group because I want to play the game. I like the flow. I like the game.

But it's just so hard to get 10 people together to play it so like do you know do you know what the best thing i did in terms of streaming and i think like let's say um i stopped streaming let's just imagine i stopped streaming for some people of course that would be a great day but for me it would no come on i don't think anybody would think that's a great day you're you're like you're like a cornerstone of uh of like dad twitch let's call it a corner anyway of dad twitch um the the best thing that i did was the the sub discord and creating a community there yeah because i like we we do the in-houses on a tuesday night and there'll be like a ton of people waiting to play those games last night i fired up hell let loose for the first time in like probably four or five months, I feel like,

because there was a big new patch that came out, loaded that up. And straight away, there were 20 of us playing it. And if I want to play Among Us, and I'll just say something to Discord, I feel like that to me, like I've created a community where we sort of moderate the kind of people that we allow in. If people are assholes, we boot them out that that is the most positive part for me of streaming yeah and and off stream i know that i can get a game of of something going um that that's my solution is i haven't um i haven't done that so much with my with my community and and in a lot of ways i think what you've done is better because you have on tap a group for any game you can have right you have four people if you need them you have 10 people if you need them you can have 30 people if you need them for like hell let loose or something like that right like when we did rust and stuff we got loads of people for that so what i've been

doing with among us is i've been playing in a lot of streamer lobbies which has been really good but you know content creators are so fucking flaky it's impossible to organize like it's been i've been organizing like my own lobbies i've been partaking in other people's lobbies and stuff and it's been really fun but organizing my own lobbies has been really time consuming it's a it's a hassle right because everybody's really satisfying as well and then getting into other lobbies has been really fun too because you just meet other people you can make new like new friends that you might do stuff with or whatever and uh overall i think it's been really good but i think what you have is a lot more realistically sustainable right like like i said i mean

it's quite hard work you can do like when you want to play rust you can have a server full of people in rust but the thing is because you hang out with these guys and play games with them so much i could do that with my community and i know like my mods like and i played games and stuff but the wider community i haven't really gamed much with you know what i mean yeah but you don't play the kind of games that like we were saying like you like uh like people watch you for a very different reason yeah they watch me because they want to see me fuck up in a multiplayer game so they can clip yeah see with me i think it's because i'm i'm handsome i got my of course you are my camera on and they can see my face and they can see all my

you know when my brain is working and i'm solving like really intricate puzzles, they can see it. They can see it. And you just look even more handsome. With my big shitty beard. Fuck me. What a game, eh? Yeah, I get where you're coming from, I think. But it's satisfying to to to find

a group of people to play games with but at the same time like free flex you went through so much faff yeah like dealing with unpleasant people or people who don't quite fit no i just drama and effort of trying to we have to you have to have a clean out like you've got to manage the community i think that's how most people feel about me. Like when they organize the lobby and I turn up, they're having to deal with unpleasant people. They have to find something. You just, you know,

you've got to keep an eye on it. I think the main thing is that I've got really, really good mods. And I think, I mean, every streamer I speak to understands the value of, of good mods. Yeah.

And like, they're just, these are guys that I've known for years now and I trust them and they know what I'm going to like and what I'm not going to like. And what I'm going to say is like, that's unacceptable. But then also they'll come to me and say, you really need to do something about X.

So, you know, we sort of moderate the community as a, as a group. Um, it's, it's, it is,

it is a little bit of extra work, but to me it's very satisfying because it's just, it's so nice to have people that I can play games with and people that are funny and chill. And like we were playing code names if you played, oh, that's great. Yeah. Code names is really fun. Great game. Great game.

So last night or a couple of nights ago we were playing it and it's just great. I'm just off stream just hanging out because these guys are funny and they're fun to hang out with. And I like, I play games with them every day. And I love that. Because obviously none of my old mates from school and my real life old friends, none of them play games at all. To them, it's like a mystery.

We had a WhatsApp chat last night where I introduced them to the concept of OnlyFans. They'd never heard of OnlyFans. No idea what it was. Oh my God. And I was, like, explaining and they had all these questions, and I was telling them about all the various hot cosplayers I've met and showing them their Instagrams. They're like, my goodness.

It's like a whole new world. Oh, that's hilarious. Because it's just not something you'd ever read about or notice. It's not a dark corner of the internet, but the internet is so vast, and there's so many different avenues you could go down that if you don't there's no crossover between reading about the news or football and suddenly finding yourself on on a smut smut filled only fans it's like i just thought

it was funny that they it's not a cultural sort of uh thing that everybody knows about yet whereas to me everybody knows about like you know people joke about this kind of stuff but yeah my mates have no idea about it mrs f had never heard of it i had to explain to her what it was when i was relaying this story to her this morning but yeah it's just kind of kind of funny how uh how different uh my view of what the internet is and and everything like that and and the people that i think of as being on the internet are and the average persons uh of my age uh it's just completely different completely it's a completely different world they know nothing about and and it's it's really interesting to them as well they're like they're like so interested in

i think they're horrified and interested yeah it's like a uh what is that it's like sort of morbid curiosity about this but it's like the same as us it's like the it's like nice to go into a medieval this is their cyberpunk is me telling them about only fans and then discovering yeah maybe the uh the cam goes like yeah i wonder how people feel like i wonder how people feel like ordinary folks who play cyberpunk feel like cyberpunk is the future jimmy i wonder how many people because a lot of people watch like sci-fi stuff or superhero stuff and they're like oh they're really cool when we have superpowers won't it and i'm like what are you talking about we are never gonna have super strength that's not

gonna happen you know like we're not suddenly gonna be able to just have laser eyes who has ever said to you it's gonna be really cool when we all have super strength i don't know like certain people i've met though i really think we're gonna have super strength one day well i can't wait till we can jump over buildings in a single bound sort of like they sort of feel like oh science is really cool isn't it i wonder almost like kids you know like oh look could i get bit by a radioactive spider and no these are. You're talking to children. You're just going to go to hospital. I don't know. But a lot of adults are just big children, P-Flex.

They haven't, they don't really, in the back of their minds, I think they do believe that, you know, especially when you see stuff like in the Jingle Jam this year, we've got these open bionics arms, which are being supported. Have you seen that?

They have these really cool bionic arms that they've got and they look pretty cool and they seem to work pretty well. Very impressed. Anyway, I think we should probably put a pin in this podcast

because Sips has just dropped out of the channel. I think he got disconnected. Oh yeah, I think his internet's gone down again. And I've also got to do some stuff. We got some JJ into JJ.

Thank you, Sips. Sips just said, Sips is, but he says he's a desk. He's stopped. All right, thanks, everybody. Sips is saying goodbye as well. All right, bye.