Triforce! - Triforce! #161: Street Fightin' Woman

Episode Date: January 27, 2021

Triforce! Episode 161! Everyone is stupid on the internet and you shouldn't trust their opinions... including Pyrion's dad. Also, we join the hunt for the Nightstalker Richard Ramirez and create the next hit single: Street Fightin' Woman! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Hello, everyone. Welcome back to the Triforce podcast. This week, what have I done in like two sentences? I did nothing. Stayed at home, played video games. I shaved my beard off after I found out that it was really, really annoying. And then I realized how fat my face looks due to the lockdown. And I didn't realize. That happened last week. I'm sad about it.

And I'm wondering how long it's going to take to grow back. Didn't that happen last week as well? I thought that happened to you last week too. The shaving of the beard and realizing. Oh, probably. You had a fat face. back that happened last week as well i thought that happened to you last week too the uh shaving of the beard and realizing oh probably you had a fat face it's in fact it's in that case this week's gone by so fast that my beard hasn't grown back enough to no no i was just looking at myself in the mirror and i shaved my uh i had a semi-lockdown beard nice that i'd been growing just through sheer bone i saw yeah because Yeah. Cause you posted saying old,

really old looking old man or whatever. And it was like, damn that beard. It is. It is amazing. What a difference it makes to your face. It looks like, look at one of those adventurers of old cabin fever beard is yeah.

Yeah. Definitely a bit of cabin explorer beard. Yeah. But an Arctic explorer that didn't make it. Oh, they just found the emaciated skeleton in a tent with a little journal. a cabin explorer beard yeah but an arctic explorer that didn't make it i think it's that emaciated skeleton in a tent with a little journal the one that they've the one that they found in the uh tent frozen with his mouth wide open day 55 missing dota playing it in my head it was a really annoying earthshaker who called me a noob had Had a really good anti-mage run. Wish I could shave this beard off.

Scissors frozen solid for three months now. Day 57, Luke tried to shave his own beard off with his knife but cut his head off by accident. Thinking about Doge. That would be me. I've just been playing fucking

Tarkov night and day. I'm all over it. So can you describe to me why Tarkov is alluring? What is the addictive part? What is the one bit of the game that is the most exciting bit? Is it cording stuff in your inventory? What is it? I don't understand what gameplay is hooking you in.

Have you played it? No, I have. Well, yeah, I played it a couple of hours, but I didn't get it. Okay. No, that's fair. So there are actually a lot of different ways that you can play Tarkov, which is one thing that I like about it. You can play as more of a snipey kind of lad.

You can play as someone who, like a Chad, who wears all the big armor and goes and fights the other chads you can try and just like focus on quests and farming you know loot to make money rather than looking for fights you can do the rat play which is what i favor where you go in with very cheap gear and either try and sneak a kill on on a powerful player or pick over the bodies of dead, you know, geared up players, which is one of my favorite tactics. So if you imagine there's a battle going on between chads and they're like fighting pew, pew, pew, and I'm just the guy crawling in there and taking gear off one of the dead guys before they can loot him. And then I'll sneak off, you know, or for

having good keys to open locked areas on Tarkov that maybe other people aren't at yet and taking the good gear and stuff. So the appeal for me is the fact that there are lots of different ways to play and the way that I enjoy playing, which is rat Tarkov, sneaking in there, or just charging straight for the high value loot, depends on what I'm feeling like. Killing geared up players with bad guns is very satisfying. Like killing geared up players with bad guns is very satisfying. I would say the most satisfying thing is when you find a really, really valuable piece of loot.

Get it up your butthole so it can't be dropped and then extract. Like that tense extract is very, it's like a huge relief when you get out of the level. All your gear is, you know, secured. You can sell stuff that you found. It's a great feeling. it is a great feeling but yeah the best thing is when chad tries to kill you and you somehow kill chad that's my absolute favorite yeah that's always a a highlight for sure it's weird like it sounds like almost like you're describing an mmo or something where you are well it's meant to are just trying to collect stuff. I think it even more so will become an MMO in the future.

I really hope not, actually. I think that's the vision for the game. I know that they said that one of the things they want to add. So at the moment, Lewis, if you can imagine, each of the maps is like a separate raid instance. So like a raid in WoW. Yeah, and you have to learn them. There's nothing randomized. Everything's learned. Map learning. The loot is randomized. The loot's randomized. The spawns of NPCs are randomized.

It's like semi-randomized. And you're never guaranteed to know how many players there are on the map and where they spawn either. So there's definitely random elements to it. So the loot is sort of tends to be better in certain areas, but sometimes it's like, holy shit. Like, and other times it's just like, it's pretty crap. So it has that random element to it. It's definitely not sort of rigid. So it's got that loot boxy element to it

that say WoW has, you know, when you kill the boss, you want to see what loot he's dropped. So it's kind of like that. And killing other players obviously sometimes you kill a player and you're like holy shit like this guy had loads of stuff and and you get that and stuff and and also the the price of things is kind of dictated by the in-game player to player market the flea market as they call it so you'll suddenly notice that some item you've got a lot of is actually gone up in value for some reason like fuel at the moment is worth a bloody fortune for some reason. So it's just little things like that.

Also, there's like quests that you can do and you level up your guys. So there is a lot to it. Do you know what I mean, though, about the MMO thing? And like almost the gacha thing that you said, that seems to be the way the thing... I don't know what a gacha thing is. What is that? So gacha is the loot box well basically it means loot box it's gacha gacha machines are in japan they're these little ball machines you

see them here as well where you put like a hundred yen in like a quid and you get like a little fucking um all with a random thing from a series and it'll have like there's a sketch of machines in japan for everything but that's the the loose description for what um like gen should impact the mmo is but also almost all mobile games are like where you get loot boxes with random things in um i mean they were around when i was a kid you'd see them outside uh sweet shops or corner stores or whatever there's like a little i don't think you don't see them as much anymore it was like a glass um what do they call them like a like a sweet machine you put your coin in you turn the thing they still have them uh dotted around they're not as popular as they were like a long time but they're big in they're big in japan and yeah it's a sort of it's a kind of

mechanic of like i guess paying over the odds for if you like yeah potentially cheap yeah um but but it's also a kind of i don't know it must appeal to something human in our desire to collect stuff and and assemble all of them and also it must appeal to the sort of sunk the idea of you've spent money in this and they're real life money in this yeah or you're invested in it now and and you're going to put more in i don't know there's certain there's obviously some hooks to make it work and it's it's quite fun honestly like as a thing as well as a concept you can see why it would be like a fun a fun way to build you know a monetization structure you know it's definitely the latest one of the the evolution

of the of the um the thing and so yeah in a sense like that idea of you could find anything when you go in um is is very similar to to that i guess i've been interested in so i played a bit wow and i sort of quit again after i realized i don't know as soon as i start falling into the trap of yeah i've talked about this before but it's like as soon as i see something that i'm doing before i'm like i don't want to do that so i've tried over the last couple of months to play new games like this week i played um unavowed which is a point and click right um and i know that you know you've played a lot of point and click sips but man i i love a point and click i don't know there's something there's something good i mean sometimes the point they're they're relatively short so you can have

the story um the story is usually quite locked in so you can't really like you can't really change the it's not like a game where you can really change the ending to to heaven yeah but also there's the the puzzles are quite fun usually and they're obviously usually quite limited and you get this sort of abrupt bit where you you're stuck you're like okay do i use the the i've got a code and i've got a door and i've got a frog and i've got a stick like what what do i what do i do here right and then you you have to do something slightly cryptic um you know you use the stick on the frog and then it's like i don't think i should do that and it's like okay i use the frog

on the code it's like how is a frog going to decipher code? You're like, okay. And then you use the frog on the sausage, and it's like, oh, the sausage is now covered in frog slime. It's like, oh, okay. That's my problem with those games is that a lot of the time it was just repetition. It's a bit like a hidden object game. Essentially, if you just click on every single part of the screen, as long as it's not timed there's no real peril like it's like uh you know the number of rooms you can go to is limited you have a limited number of items in your inventory you just have to combine them

yeah and and combine each of those with each thing that you can interact with and eventually you'll get the puzzle i think that that's always been my issue with those point and clicks is that but despite that it's still sometimes very hard to get to that yeah i don't know how with a very limited i've been stuck so many times and i'm like i've been stuck in one room game with two items yeah and so no i love all those games i played all the cube escape and the rusty lake type games there i think they're sort of the modern point and click games and um they're really great and anyway this unavowed it was yahtzee's um game of the year from like a couple of years back and um they've made a bunch of other point and clicks actually which i've heard of um and never played but i'm i think i might make my way through them now because i really really enjoyed this it's kind of like um

like a modern it's like quite unusual that it's set in modern day because so many like game worlds are set in obviously either fantasy or supernatural or like some sort of weird future space or in space there's like very few games that are actually set when you think about it in the current day um yeah and i wonder i wonder why that is i think it may be because it's too difficult to replicate the mundane weirdness of the modern time jeremy when we look back at old times when we look back at old presidents and things like this like you know maybe it's just because we've had this recent issue but when we look back at things like reagan or george bush you know yeah that it was always felt i think at the time there was a sentiment that that was like a pretty embarrassing president to have you

know a celebrity president or yeah this kind of inept man i don't know i i think that but history has this fog of making them into these i don't know authority figures who are kind of you know and so i'm playing like call of duty i played them with the new call of duty and it's got like reagan in it you know it's a cgi reagan doing like doing his speech doing reagan stuff kind of like he looks like quite cool he looks like well i think it's like familiarity i you you know like especially with reagan i find he was on tv a lot when i was a kid you know like growing up in north america and and seeing him on tv a lot it just it kind of just takes you back to being a kid not understanding anything

about the world or politics or whatever and And it's almost like a comfort thing. But, you know, as an adult, when you read up about him and you look back on it, you're like, okay, well, I can see why people were so angry at the time and like why so much like sort of aggressive culture, music, everything came out of the time that he was around and the things that he did or whatever. But I mean, it's different for like i guess the generation that grew up um in in or around him you know it is weird yeah it's this fog of history that kind of gives things this weird i don't know authenticity no no yeah like i don't know like it cements them in in this in this place where you almost can understand them completely when something's happening right now maybe with donald trump and stuff it all feels so unstable and like what's what the fuck is happening whereas at least like when you're looking back at reagan you're like this is what

happened there and these are what people feel like it's the consent history you know it's almost been cemented yeah i feel like in some ways even trump being being so old, like, you know, he's quite old. He's like, you know, previous to previous generations from us. And we're like middle-aged or whatever. At the same time, I feel kind of like he's a product of the time, you know, like this day and age kind of demands like TikTok, soundbites, like they want to be outraged. They want people to say outrageous things they want, you know, like, and you had elements of that in the past, but never like now, you know what I mean? Like, I feel now it's at its worst. And Trump really played up to a lot of

that. I mean, I wonder whether we're going to have things set in this age, you know, in the sense that, you know, there was the age of sort of tape tape decks and kind of that that sort of shady sort of dusty cia sneaking around in post-world war ii bunkers you know doing their spy stuff you know i remember all that as a real cool setting right and then there was you know the 80s and like kind of and now we're in this kind of we were in the information age but now i think we're in the misinformation age yes where nothing is real everyone is lying there's just no one but knows what to believe everyone is just full of like i don't know why people are so hot for the for the lies i i understand i just don't understand the allure of a conspiracy theory. And it's not like it's a new thing.

People were doubting the moon landings 30 years ago. It's not like there weren't conspiracy theories before. But I feel like it's just taken itself to this other level of madness. And I wonder whether in the future people will look back on this and be like, well, did everyone just take crazy pills? Or whether it's just going to carry on down this road in the future people will look back on this and be like, well, did everyone just take crazy pills? Or whether it's just going to carry on down this road into the future. It's scary. I'm just wondering how this time is going to be cemented in history.

I think it'll be neither here nor there. I think it's one of those things that right now, it feels like a big thing. It feels like everything. that at now right now it's it feels like a big thing it feels like everything um but i i feel like even in four years time you know nobody's really gonna look back on the past four years as significant in any way like it's just incredibly optimistic of you like that that is actually i mean it's one of those things where maybe where maybe um maybe some things that have happened in the past couple of years will have a longer-term impact or whatever, but I'd say most things won't. I think COVID is something that people will remember back for sure, obviously. But I don't think anything recently of like recently before COVID is overly sort of impactful or memorable.

I don't think it's going to set the tone for like pop culture in 20 years time or anything like that. You know what I mean? But maybe they felt like that in the 80s, like you were talking about with like Contras, Tape Dex, the CIA and all that kind of stuff. I don't think anybody really thought that that was going to be the memorable thing from the 80s like well that's what I remember yeah well not remember but that's because I that's because I'm interested in reading about it and stuff but and I've been watching a few things about that on on the old Netflix and you know just just 80s crack and contras and stuff I don't know it's it's interesting to to read about this stuff and learn about it but i guess time is i watched a v source video about his he did this cool video about time um where he like um started the video by like shaving his beard off right and then

growing it back in like three months so he'd obviously made the thing made the thing over like four months or whatever that was quite a little gimmick but it was funny um i recommend you watch his stuff because it's kind of i don't know i don't know if it is optimistic though flax i mean think like what what do you think what do you think that's happened is it has like any legs or is gonna is gonna be mentioned like even even big things things or seemingly big things like Brexit and stuff already feel like they're forgotten. It's not. What are you talking about? I mean, I...

Well, no, you're right. Are you still thinking about Brexit constantly or even occasionally? Have you not seen what's happening? Like it's unraveling right now. People are discovering the impact and it hasn't even really begun to hit yet. You think people are just going to forget about it? like it's all the stories are about what a fucking shit show it's been even the papers that backed it were like we fucked this up and like you got that like all these ridiculous stories coming out about you know people not being able to get things

the shortage of of all kinds of things because of it and it's only just now starting to kick in yeah the idea that it's you know oh people aren't we forget about brexit well yeah because we've had covid it's kind of distracting a little bit but that's that's what i mean we'll ease into the shit show it's not like it's not like a hard stop where it's going to be like fuck the day everything changed because of brexit you know what i mean like it's it's going to be so gradual and probably terrible, but I don't think it's going to be looked back on as like a big deal. I think this period of politics can go one of a few ways. The most optimistic one, which I think is like your take on it, would be that the only reason we discuss this era would be as a kind of what the fuck. are kind of what the fuck and you do a thesis on the bonkers politics and you know what happened in 2015 to 2025 whatever like that decade of how everything went a bit nuts and now phew we're back

to normal now i think that's an optimistic take i think things are going to get progressively worse and worse from here well this is this is the attitude that everyone sort of starts to get though if they're not careful i think looking through history i guess with the time thing i was at v source was talking about it was very much this idea of like short time and long time and how something can you know you can have a day that feels like you've not done anything you know and it's and it's dragged on and on and you can have another day where you're on holiday and you do 20 things and it and it's over in seconds but it was like absolutely jam-packed full of stuff you know you remember it long and it felt short and you know anyway I think with

history we have these obviously key moments you know you like name a thing that happened you know between world war one and world war two you know or between world war two and the moon landing or between the moon landing and 9-11 or between between 9-11 and what's now, COVID? What's the big landmark historical event? Is Brexit going to be a tiny little footnote in history? Probably, yes, actually, in terms of the global memory of the world. I think COVID is going to overshadow absolutely all of that.

Because more people, more Americans died in the last year of COVID than in World War II. I heard that yesterday on Biden's speech, which is an amazing statistic, you know, to hear. 400,000 people in America have died of COVID. Two million people worldwide. That's a lot of, it's a really powerful, it's a really impactful thing. And, you know, we live in a really funny, scary time. And it's very stressful for a lot of it's a really powerful it's a really impactful thing and you know we live in a really funny scary time and it's very stressful for a lot of people i mean covid covid is of course going to be the big story of this decade if you like um and i think the impact will be extremely harshly felt around the world for a long time because for one thing but

also it's not just it's not just the deaths which is like appalling in itself the effect that this is going to have, we just had an economic crash in 2008, just about recovering from that, starting to get back to where we were. The amount lost meant that that decade was essentially a lost decade, if you like, because where we would have been if the crash hadn't happened,

we would have been better off as a planet. Economically speaking, the crash cost us a ridiculous amount. It vanished so much money that we've just been able to creep back to. Then COVID hits. Well, you say that, though. But in economic terms, yes, that's real. But we did step in at the right time to stop it all completely. Good business is falling apart.

What you have to have in a in a capitalist economy a cycle system where bad businesses are allowed to fail you can't keep running terrible businesses you know that cafe down the road which has never got anyone in it right keep borrowing money again and again the crash was that everybody fucking like felt the impact it wasn't just a bad business like that's the issue on average every sort of 10 to 15 years there there is some sort of correction or at least a chance for businesses to fail. I'm sure plenty of bad businesses are failing right now. I think the issue is when it's not a bad business and it fails. Yeah, that's the issue.

That's when we have crashes. And that's why the government is working on trying to give businesses these tied-over things and keep the airlines going and stuff because you know otherwise they're otherwise good businesses are gonna go under but just because all the airports closed and stuff and that's that would be bad and that's that's that's the kind of thing that really you know can be damaging for economies and that's that's what's scary isn't it yeah so i mean in terms of like looking back on this era some people will look back now i mean for instance one of the things I've been reading about lately is this QAnon stuff, right? It was like this guy who claims to be, I think, some kind of government insider who has like this grand plan and this day of reckoning and all this kind of stuff. Right, right.

And there's a whole bunch of threads on Twitter that are posting screenshots of these people on the QAnon message boards. If you don't know anything about it, go and look it up if you're listening to this uh although don't actually don't go and look it up but you could if you wanted to um it's q q anon is something which i think everyone probably has heard about it's the literally the weirdest conspiracy theory and the most the worst one the one which if you believe in it you probably also need mental help well i mean there are people running on it like saying i'm a qanon guy like as politicians like they're right at the top of that conspiracy theory madness right it's like it's like there's no evidence and it's it's just no but i think worse than that it's

telling it's like it's trying to act like a crystal ball and they're like wait for this day this is going to happen then that trust trust us this is this is the way it's going to be like they were saying that at noon on on inauguration day trump and the military were going to zoom in and declare martial law and resease power and chuck out all the bad actors arrest them send them to guantanamo i'm not kidding this was the this was what they were saying was going to happen and the message board is they're almost like some sort of cult yeah where the aliens are gonna come in and scoop them up and an awful lot of people now are saying i can't believe we were lied to

and you know i i'm i'm shaking i'm shaking and crying right now you know because they sort of they thought this was actually going to happen and what scares me is that it's not just that they thought it was going to happen they were like yes this is what needs to happen they are actively praying for a military coup in a democracy the democracy the leading democracy in the world they want a military coup they think the election was stolen my fucking dad thinks the election was stolen and i was like where is your evidence that you don't your evidence is this guy q who says some shit and you're like well i better believe that it's like how are you claiming that you're doing your research and you're we're the ones being lied to and you believe in some random

internet guy who's just saying this stuff and none of it's coming true and you're still like it's mad oh that's just mad that's crazy that it's reached into into your dad's brain there is a netflix thing i saw about that it was like like the sort of, I can't remember, it's actually called something like the corruption of my dad or whatever. It's just Facebook and I don't know where they get it. Why do dads believe all this stuff? It's like it is a really dad thing, isn't it? It's not just dads, though. It kind of is.

It kind of is, though, it feels like. It feels like it should be. I'm generalizing, but that is completely the kind of stuff that I think my dad would get into at this point in his life. I just think they're very, they honestly very trusting. He's older, he's retired. Maybe he's like seen some shit, you know, like, I don't know. It just seems like...

The brainwashing of my dad. Yeah. You know what I think it is? They didn't grow up with the internet the way we did. I mean, we understood the early days of the internet, and then we sort of had experience of the bullshit of the internet. You just do not fucking believe everything that you read. And I think they're coming from an era when if it's printed, it's the truth,

because that's the way newspapers used to be. They used to fucking print facts and stuff like that. And now nobody believes journalists. They believe some anonymous guy on the internet over the press what is happening to some degree you have to be seeking this stuff out too right like it's not like he's just stumbled across something that's just all of a sudden opened his eyes and changed his life right like he has to be sort of looking around for fringe sort of stuff it's on facebook it's everywhere but i think this has been happening in the background for for 20 or 30 years with fox news and with sort of you know certainly in america with the republic like the dividing of

the two sides of this you know there used to be a lot of crossover and now it's very divisive and very kind of angry and and i feel like this is just the next logical step in the missing from the propaganda war i don't know you know what i think it is is uh i've i've always said that i think that the issue with the internet that i have, and this is my opinion, is exactly that. Everybody has a fucking opinion, and they get to rate other people's opinions, post their own opinions and thoughts, and they shouldn't.

Most people should shut the fuck up and not worry about all this complicated shit like the government beyond, you know, the stuff that you need to to be an active member of a democratic society. You don't understand half this stuff. I don't understand half this stuff, because I'm not an expert any more than I would go into a doctor's surgery and say, you're doing that wrong. It's not my business, if you like. I'm not in the business of running a country.

Now, that doesn't mean I can't complain when it goes tits up. I absolutely should. But the idea that I should understand as a lay person, the depths of our economic agreement with the EU is ridiculous. It's incredibly complicated by its nature. It's a vast and complex system. Everybody now feels entitled to have their shitty opinion. Someone sees someone's shitty opinion that's ill-informed and idiotic at best, agrees with it, and now they have that opinion as well. And then you have arseholes coming in like Donald Trump, the dude knew nothing about how a country ran, didn't understand the rules, didn't understand what he could and couldn't do, didn't understand how America functioned, didn't understand international trade, knew

nothing, knew nothing, claimed to be a genius, knew nothing about it very clearly. I mean, for example, one thing that they'd been doing is taping back together all the stuff that he ripped up during office. He would read something and go back and tear it in half and throw it away. The president has to keep he has to keep communications and documents because it's a matter of historical record. And he's a public servant. So there is a bunch of people fucking physically sellotaping shit back together. I shit you not that he tore up it's laughable and these are the kind of people you get in charge when you give people the option to post this stupid shitty opinion and think it matters because if i put something on facebook and three

people like it i feel validated those three people could be the three stupidest people i know yeah i might have had my post liked by three morons and i think three likes wow that's amazing oh um on that topic i saw your post this morning and i left a like as well nice i'm not a smart person but i can at least see that i'm stupid people don't accept that they are just fucking thick we're thick stop making out you're smart and posting your stupid opinions as if they're fact and expecting to be told Why when is the coup coming? And then some guy says, uh, midday. Great. Yeah, I believe that. Why? Why are you believing some guy on the internet tells you there's gonna be a military coup in the United States and you're like, yeah

It's coming. You believe what you want to believe though. That That's the thing. It's not even a rational thing, right? It's part belief, and then there's hope that it's going to happen, too. Like, these people are kind of desperate, right? Like, everything that they wanted, everything that they believed in was being taken from them. being taken from them so of course they're just going to be like thinking that you know like you when you get when you're up against the wall you know you're you're just going to be hoping for like a miracle at that point right and i guess would a miracle be a military dictatorship for them a miracle how is that going to improve anyone's life well how is that going to improve your life it's it you know maybe it's just very narrow-minded. They think that it's somehow going to improve just their life,

which it wouldn't. I mean, you're talking about a person who just doesn't care about anybody but himself at all, and he's proven it a million times over, even before becoming the president. I don't know how. I don't understand the mentality of of supporting him and thinking that he's you know some sort of catalyst for good but like i think i think a lot

of people were very angry because an awful lot of america has had a shit time of the economically for a long time they feel abandoned and forgotten despite the fact that you know they fucking still live in america i mean jesus not like part parts of america look like the sudan or whatever and it's like you know just roving gangs and and raping and pillaging and murder and famine and everything no it's it's it but it's not what they view of america should be which was this kind of american dream you know you work you get the things you need you're not fucking broke all the time you're not you're not feeling shitty all the time you're your kids aren't addicted to opioids all the fucking time like it's not this vision of america that they've got of it falling apart i think like you were saying i think it's been

fired up by fox news highlighting every single thing that happens as well america's crumbling again i mean do you remember when their big story was the war on christmas and the idea that christmas was being eroded? Oh, you can't say Christmas anymore. Have you seen Christmas? It's fucking everywhere for three months. It's Christmas, Christmas, Christmas. You can't get away from Christmas.

Yeah. They're told that there's a war on Christmas. And so they think there is. Well, I think that, yeah, they're touching on something which is a very broad topic, and I think it is the squeezing of the middle class and the idea that, you know, an ordinary two parents working full time can't afford to have a mortgage and a family. You know, like the idea that the rich have squeezed too hard and that the minimum wage hasn't increased and people still don't, you know, you get sick get sick you have to pay you have to go to debt for five years you know the idea that that that is doesn't seem like the american dream and i think a lot of people are frustrated with that i think i think that the millions of people are not well you know the majority of people are sure the the richest of the folks you know i mean that's

something that people on any side of people are now saying oh now the american dream now saying, oh, now the American dream is I want a swimming pool. Where's my swimming pool? You know, the people are like, you know, where's my... How am I going to pay my debt? How am I going to pay down this? You know, there's this culture where you buy everything on credit. You know, everyone buys cars on credit and everything on credit. And it's crazy, really.

Like, you know, you see it a little bit here in, you know... We have a huge amount of consumer debt over here. A huge amount. People owe a fortune. Are taken advantage of, though, with these sort of things. But they kind of have to because they're not paid enough to live with their work often or looked after. Well, I don't know.

It's a troublesome thing. And I think that it is a symptom of the majority of the people not feeling like they can live comfortably here's what blows my mind is that the problems you're describing lack of health care jobs job like the average sort of salary if you if you look at the graph that shows salary increase over time compared to cost of living the amount that people, on average, has barely gone up in like fucking 30 or 40 years. Like it's such a flat line. And the cost of living and all the things that we need in a consumerist society,

you need people to spend money on things like phones and cars or it all falls apart. So, I mean, Fox did a thing where they said, how poor are these people really? Well, they have fridges, so they're not that poor. It's like you're living in America and you're saying that they have fridges, so they're not that poor. It's like, you're living in America and you're saying that people with fridges don't count as poor.

It's America. And a fridge is a modern appliance in a consumer society that everybody should fucking have. I think poor people have more fridges. I always see like three or four in their car. Yeah. They've got a lot of sofas out there too.

A lot of extra fridges, yeah. But it's like, that's now an indicator of poverty is if you've got a fridge can you really call yourself poor yeah yeah you can you've got a fridge dude like that doesn't make you a wealthy man fox news america's poor only have three to four fridges in their gardens now it used to be five to six in the 80s uh so we've got a sizable drop there that's how you count it man how many fridges do the poor have in their front yards on the subject of america in the 80s i watched a four-part documentary series on netflix

called the night stalker have you heard of it oh i watched that too yeah yeah yes i watched it oh my god i enjoyed it it was it was quite dramatic it was quite like... It was a little melodramatic at times, I thought. It was a little lurid. I also didn't think it needed to be four parts. Yeah. But holy shit. One thing that they didn't touch on in the whole thing, because it was kind of three episodes of him going on this killing spree,

basically, over six months months a period of six months or so and um sexually abusing uh adults and children attacking everything he did everything he did everything it was it was unbelievable to the point where i didn't believe it right i like they i was like everything in my head was like I don't believe that this guy done all that stuff. I don't think he done it. No, I think he definitely done it. Oh, he done it. Oh, he did it.

He was a very, very, very disturbed person. I think he just had been for his whole life. But one thing that they didn't mention in the documentary was that he, well, they mentioned that he passed away in 2013 but i think in like it must have been like 2003 or something like that he got married while he was on death row to well this was something they did a lot of in the documentary so he was this sort of dreamy looking guy his teeth dude his teeth yeah but apparently he had terrible teeth yeah and well the thing that actually you don't be most about this spoilers for the documentary is they went to a dentist and they

were like he's gonna he came to the dentist he said oh i've had a problem with teeth can i come back and so they were like sure you can come back what we'll do is we'll set up a little button in the we can't we can't stay at the dentist studio all the time we're just gonna set up a button so if the if the dentist sees you come in he'll press the button and then we'll get a call and we'll set a squad car around and we'll pick up this guy who's killed 10 people you know and raped a load of people and abducted a load of children and killed a load of grannies he's done all sorts of bad stuff what we'll do is we'll put a little button in for you um and then we'll we'll you can tell us if he comes back and obviously he comes back they press the fucking button and no it doesn't work it's amazing so the police don't don't get him and

then he goes on to kill a lot of 10 people i'm like oh that's so fucking 80s like he's so lazy the car that they have fucking i can't believe they didn't station a fucking cops in there i took them out the day they put the button in they he turned up amazing okay but the thing is it's it's this is the this is sort of like the the age-old issue and this is why in the 70s and we're supposed to congratulate these people for finding this fucking guy and i'm like you are shit but they're not though the system was completely fucked back then like these guys were just doing what they could given this the the situation i don't think so the

whole documentary was sucking off these cops saying how fucking amazing they were finding this guy and patting themselves on the back and they were shit for years and years and years and he got way more stuff next time you walk into a house where somebody has been raped and murdered and you're the guy who has to investigate it, weigh up what you just said as well. The fucking toll it takes on people in general having to deal with that shit and then to say that they're shit.

They're not shit. They were fine. I don't know. The problem is that police precincts back then did not share information, never spoke to each other. There was so much bureaucracy. There were so many more mistakes made by mayors and other politicians

leaking information and stuff. I mean, there's blood on everybody involved's hands, and it's because the system was dog shit. I mean, didn't you see the bit with the car where some other jurisdiction got it? Yeah. And they sat on the car for so long just saying, oh, yeah, yeah, we'll print it. No, no, you can't print it. Yeah. The sun melted all the prints and they only found one thing in there. And the amazing thing is that when they found the card months later of his dentist, then they realized, oh, shit, if we'd had this at the fucking time we would have

caught him a month ago yeah because he went to the dentist a couple of days after that and it was mind-blowing yeah yeah they had so much working against them yeah like the shoe the mayor saying we know his shoes yeah they what are you doing also it wasn't like it wasn't it wasn't an investigation that went on for years either like it was a thing that happened in like a year and a half pretty much in total it wasn't even that long his killing spree was like a few months wasn't it yeah it was like six seven months or so which is long enough i mean holy fuck i mean can you imagine i'm not saying can we have more killing no no no it's but like this was a short amount of time can you fucking imagine living in that city at the time this is

happening where every night like for a period of months, one or two of these crimes is being committed? You would just be like, so fucking petrified, right? But then he was a scary, it was a really scary, big, scary looking guy. But then the community sort of outpouring around it, you know, when like the manhunt was on was incredible. of outpouring around it you know when like the manhunt was on was incredible you know like you had people following the bus that you know people were yelling in the streets he's on the bus and people were like following the bus and he got off the bus and he was running and people were running him down in the street hitting him with a lead pipe and everything like it was unbelievable like because all of a sudden they just sort of they knew who they were after yeah and the information was out but he didn't have time to react to it because he was out of town or something

he came back yeah he was at his cousins yeah yeah he came back and he's like in a convenience store buying something he looks at the paper and he's plastered all over the front page of like every newspaper and all of a sudden it's him running after him and shit i mean that is like something from a movie the idea that you're buying some gum and you and the newsstand guy look at the paper and there's your face saying mass murder of you know this is him and you're just like could i have a pack of marlboro as well please and he's like uh yeah no no problem keep the change do you know where the nearest jet plane is so i can get the fuck out of here it was crazy fuck me man like it yeah it's crazy but honestly like i again saying that

i mean the documentary i know what you mean like maybe it was a bit hammy at points or whatever was fine but that dentist thing just irritated me so well that wasn't their fault that wasn't it was a huge fuck up but again it was just the way, I mean, he's one of many serial killers who got away, well, quite literally with murder, but were allowed to go on these sprees for long periods of time because of all of these problems with like the structure of police precincts, sharing information, just the cascading of information across like different bureaus or whatever you want to call it sort of thing. You know what I mean? Like, it was hard for them to even work together when one of the killings or two of them were done in San Francisco as opposed to LA. You know what I mean? It was like this big thing where they had to like come together and share information and everything and then even then they couldn't control what was happening because the chief in san francisco wanted to do one thing and the and the guy in la wanted to do another thing so it's just like it's just

impossible there's no consistency to it yeah it's so stupid so many things stacked against them it's crazy i mean i think i think one of the reasons that that would happen especially in america is because so many public offices are elected. So that feels like freedom. And great, we get to elect our sheriff and our coroner and all this shit. Sure. But all it really means is that every single thing that pops up that is good publicity, everybody wants in on a piece of the pie, wants to keep it for themselves, because that's how they get reelected. wants to keep it for themselves because that's how they get reelected.

Yeah. So rather than just do their fucking jobs, their first concern is and always will be, how does this make me look? Will this get me reelected? And that's like their focus. So the mayor coming out and saying, I'm going to fucking give you all the information

that we have on the killer, which was the dumbest thing ever. Yeah. Her primary focus is, how can I look like the concerned mayor who's helping? I'm not going to talk to the police. I'm not going to discuss this with the detectives in charge of the case i'm just going to fucking come out and do it because i'm the mayor and i need to get re-elected i mean obviously we elect mayors over here but they don't have anywhere near the amount of power

seemingly the mayors have in america yeah yeah so it's just like why are you electing the fucking sheriff like that's so stupid why don't you appoint the best most experienced person for the job rather than let the fucking idiot public decide which is what coming back to everybody thinks that their opinion matters everybody also there was i don't know who'd make a good fucking sheriff but it'll be the guy whose name i see with the um with the press lady who was like uh yeah i found the information that if i you know that was obviously key and i was just gonna publish it and so i just held it over the cop's heads and i was like well give me i'm going to publish this unless you give me something and it's like give me a story standard tell me some papers or i'm going to ruin your case and i was and she was just casually being like that's how

it is i love how she's reminiscing like that she's some sort of fucking hero of the situation when she was probably like one of the most damaging influences like on the entire case. I mean, literally threatening to ruin the case. I just found it amazing how that's the mindset though. That's the mindset of people. They're so blind to the fact that what they're doing is like unbelievably terrible. I think the worst thing she said was when she was like, you know, I have a cat. And every once in a while, the cat scares me at night.

Like I open my eyes and the cat is staring at me like after I've been sleeping. And then I imagine that it was the killer. I was like, yeah, but it never was for you. What are you fucking talking about? People have been fucking killed here, you crazy batshit insane person. And you're saying that you're quite happy to release stuff which lets him kill more people you're quite happy letting him kill more people that was the worst yet like oh she was she was unbelievably out of touch with the situation everything but it's

amazing like i love that's why i love these documentaries though because they really and then i think it was her editor like you know all this is going on and he's like oh you know she really was she really went through the mill you know you can see scars no she fucking didn't like what are you talking about it's she made it worse she did make actively made it worse like she has i don't think she was affected by any of this like you know there was no nobody and nobody in her family was was murdered or anything like well i mean it's just it's crazy to speak about somebody like that when there's people who actually were killed yeah it's nuts so no i i really enjoyed the documentary it was a little bit overly dramatic in places a little bit a little bit too sad in places a little bit too

like and there was some really gory stories yeah it was a bit it went it felt like it went a bit too far but that's why i thought it was too lurid and it was like everybody that got an interview to tabloid went on and on and on i mean you know obviously they wanted to show kind of how that was kind of how it was kind of replicating in a sense what it was like in a sense but there was this lurid fascination with the the criminal acts and the crime and certainly the trial there was very much like this this crazy hysteria but i don't think you address that by them producing something equally as lurid and sort of well i think they wanted to try and mirror the time in in the style i think if you're doing it as a sort of pastiche or parody of that then that needed to be more obvious. Instead, it just felt like,

it felt like I watched it because it was only four parts. If it had been 10 parts, I would not have watched it. It should have been two or three parts. They should have compressed a lot of the personal stories down a lot more because some of them were just not that interesting.

And I honestly thought that it was okay. But yeah, if you're trying to do something as a sort of, oh, you know, at the time it was very, that's what the newspapers were like. Let's see those rather than reproducing them yourself. Show us those lurid takes at the time. That should be the story.

Yeah. The historic, you know, sort of like, look at what the papers were writing. That would have been interesting rather than just saying, yeah, we'll do our own take on that. I don't think they were that clever. I think they just fucking, that's the way they did it rather than anything clever yeah because you have the source material there if you want to if you want to hark back to how lurid the details of

the pressure and everything show us more of that i would have loved to see more of the press coverage at the time and the paper coverage but instead they just sort of did their own where they interviewed these now old people talking about how fucking horrible it was. But too much, too much. It is strange how Jeffrey Dahmer and Charles Manson and Richard Ramirez had this kind of female sympathy, right? It's a psychological issue, isn't it? I don't think it was as big as they made it out in the documentary. They made it out like he was receiving sacks full of fan mail. But I think it was like a few just a few

slightly weird fetish women who were sending him letters saying how well even um even like stephen avery um has yeah like that woman married got married yeah like i mean i think it's i guess it's a thing but i it's i'm not sure the psychology behind it i don't know you know like even you know when they were saying that like women were sending him pictures like with their tits out and stuff like that um richard bonnie and clyde yeah no it's hybristophilia it's yeah i don't i don't understand that at all i i really don't get it but then but then to go on and um be so sort of enthralled by this person who you know has done all these horrible things and then like you know marry them or whatever is just seems crazy but then and then to and then to a couple years later get a divorce

because i think they got a divorce because she was like oh you know uh when i when i found out about all the stuff involving kids like oh okay like that was the tipping point for you like that wasn't wasn't just the multiple murders and home invasions it was it boiled down i mean fair enough i mean that that is horrendous but yeah that can't be the the straw that broke the camel's back should have been should have been like the big warning sign to begin oh my god it's it's like totally a scale isn't it right because you've got like the bad boy syndrome where people like like bikers or not bikers but leather jacket wearing or not just big guys like gangsters and tough guys and you know

but then you've got like even less far along the scale it's like people who are rude to servers in restaurants or like assholes yeah do you mean so there's like it's like a whole spectrum isn't there and i guess like i i mean i i certainly could see like myself being actually i i'm not really attracted to bad girls in a sense like like girls i don't know i've, I've never been into the scary, like grace Jones. Yeah. Sexy superhero girls.

Do you mean like I'm always a bit daunted and scared by them. Wait, wait, wait. So like captain Marvel intimidates you is what you're telling. Well, I was watching the crown. Right.

Don't tell me her majesty, the queen intimidated you. Well, she does a bit. And also Margaret Thatcher's in it. Because obviously she's hanging out with Dennis Thatcher, who's this kind of nice, soft-spoken, sort of gentle man who kind of hangs around with her.

Her husband, as they are also known. And I don't know. One groupie. He's got a hybristophilia for thatcher she's she's just such a bitch she took those children's milk i can't resist she let all of that garbage pile up sky high i love this bitch do you know what i mean like though like just, yeah, I feel like there's something, I just, it's not for me.

I feel like I'm struggling with my own assertiveness and masculinity, let alone. Well, I'll be honest with you. I like all kinds of women, strong women, weak women. I like all kinds of people. I just tend to like people who are actually nice and not murderers and rapists. I don't want the murder.

It's true. That's a turnoff. I guess I've never got the idea of that sexy trope of like Xenia from GoldenEye. No, that's a big turnoff for me. All of that. If you're a criminal, that doesn't do it for me. I mean, there's degrees of criminality you know if you're drinking a bit of weed at lunchtime or whatever right you know i'll still be attracted

to you probably so not the criminals but what about like she hulk um no see like i mean if she wasn't green i think it's just the the fighting but what if she had like fucking beautiful eyes that you got lost in all the time i mean what about like what about like a what about like a big what about what's her name the boxer uh ronda rousey what if her personality was just as ripped as her legs hey what if she just had a fucking turbocharged personality you're turning me i mean obviously we're judging people very um broadly here by saying that if they're large and fight or you know they're assertive that they must be a bitch or anything like that obviously you know that that's not right but i think if you're saying that if they had like if you knew them and they were just like a real bad bitch and sort of like big and aggressive and sort of punched people in pubs and things like that that that would that would turn you off i'm

just trying to mirror that in my head because of the the whole bad boy thing and i'm watching whether the bad girl thing works. I think if you're punching people in a drinking establishment generally, regardless of your gender or age or any other factor, I'm not sure I really want to be around you that much. It doesn't excite you though. No, it's not exciting. That's the thing though, isn't it?

It's different. It's different from the mundane. You come home to your boring wife and your boring kids. You work at the box factory every day. You wouldn't like it. There's a beautiful woman at the bar. Some guy goes to hit on her and he's being a bit aggressive and being a twat. She just sort of leans over, gives you a wink,

and then just clocks in one right in the face. Huge bar brawler up. She's smashing chairs on people. I would be attracted. It's like EastEnders, I guess. But I don't know how often that really be attracted it's like eastenders i guess but i don't know how often that really happens obviously i've never i've never seen it i don't think there's any that's very sort of um maybe hall i wouldn't even say hollywood i think it just happens in eastenders and maybe from time to time coronation street when they don't have like a hot

pie to talk about maybe very specialized pornography as well you may be yeah god no i don't know it's a weird one isn't it i don't yeah i like i i don't i think like uh i wouldn't be attracted to a uh like aggressive street fighting woman uh but then again i don't think i'd be attracted friendship wise to a street fighting man either or whatever you know what i mean like i i know street fighting woman there's a song i don't need any street fighting in my life it turns out i don't street fighting woman i can't resist your knuckles i really wish you'd stop maybe tone down the street and then we can be friends you know like if you want to be friends you gotta get your ass off the street and stop all of that fighting

oh man street fighting woman yeah i don't know if i want a street fighting woman or man or any fighting people whatsoever i'll take anything i just want to surround myself with people who are just you know laid back having a nice time taking it as it comes weed smoking you know weed smoking together and be friends through weed take it easy no more fighting on the screen isn't the whole idea that you can not necessarily change them but like you're with this dangerous person and you get to see a different side well that's the thing i mean that's an age-old thing too right a lot of i think that that's i don't want to generalize but I think that that is a it feels like a fairly common situation for women and men yeah yeah in a relationship right you've got this man who might be a certain way and you have a woman who thinks I can change this person and then inevitably they

can't change that yeah like i feel like that happens often enough you know so do you think though that the the desire and the belief that you can take someone who is clearly like semi out of control follows their own rules and all that kind of stuff and you can bend them to your will yeah it's almost an expression of your own ego and desire to dominate something like that. Sorry. And to go back, I think it works vice versa as well. I'm not just saying it's only women who think they can change men. And that's a bad thing.

I'm talking about like this guy picks his nose a lot. And she thinks that she's, you know, going to swoop in and stop him from picking his nose. Oh, you've got to tidy him up. But men will do that to women as well. It's for his own good. I don't think they do. I don't know. I don't know that women or men see the other sex as a piece of clay to be molded into the shape that they want. Mrs. F definitely did.

Mrs. F saw me as a lump of clay to be molded. She fucked it up. She fucked it up real bad. But there's definitely men that do it as well, right? Look at those ears. She did a terrible job you know like uh like like abusive men who sort of like you know will like dress their wives and stuff like that and or maybe maybe that's not the point maybe that's just like part of the cycle of abuse or something but like you hear about that too right i mean it's but i mean i don't think they're looking to change someone they're looking to purely control and dominate somebody yeah i think i think the best thing i've always thought is that the best couples are those who both are independent and better have have

lives separately but are better together um and come together and can join their two independently successful and happy lives and have these moments together that are positive you know i think when people are controlling the other yeah yeah there's an imbalance of like sort of power in the relationship or whatever yeah like you you obviously do have to give um but at the same time i think that there has to be it's hard to be to see that you're you're being controlled or being so yeah i think if you're in these situations but i mean you get some people just very sweet trusting nice people and they like and also a lot of these these sort of predatory types who look to to control someone and dominate them and ruin their life look for a specific kind of person who's trusting and sweet and nice and then

pounce on them like that's what they're looking for they're not looking for she hulk you know what i mean they're not breaking ronda rousey i also think people are sometimes looking for too much they think that you know this person who i'm looking for as my partner is going to be my my best friend and my lover and i'm gonna spend all my time with them and we're gonna have the same hobbies we're gonna do everything together like i think that can sometimes be um the wrong idea of going in to look for that oh It pisses me off so much when you see and again, to generalise, I will say it's mainly women who make a list of what

they want their partner to be like. Sometimes you do see couples who are like that and they're very happy, by the way. Occasionally, but most people are going to be miserable. It would be like saying, I'm going out to dig for gold and I'm not just going to find a little tiny bit of gold. I'm going to find the biggest load of gold that's ever been finded by any gold digger ever. I'm to dig it up i'm going to be happy ever after yeah there's

going to be a crown and a scepter i'm going to be now the king yeah they're going to claim me king of the realm it's like can you just fucking settle for finding a little bit of gold because that's i mean like most relationships you find someone like sip says someone nice you get along with yeah you're attracted to each other. No street fighting. No street fighting, woman. Just chill. Maybe a little bit. Maybe a little bit.

Like one weekend a year. That's something you have to sort out in the relationship. That's the power dynamic. You never let me street fight anymore. Oh, yeah, well, I'm not going to do the dishwasher. You know, that's the kind of level you're arguing about a dishwasher. She wants to be out there street fighting it's a problem but these lists he has to be this and he has to be that and blah blah blah and we have to be soulmates but we also have to spend time apart it's like good luck yeah what you're saying is i don't want a relationship just be honest i don't actually want

a relationship unless god himself comes down and decides he wants to date me on tinder that's that's what you're looking for you're looking for the impossible dream. So just straight up admit to yourself you don't want a relationship unless it's fucking perfect. God is like a criminal. He's done some bad stuff. You just damned yourself. What if God was one of us though?

Did you ever think of that? Just a slob like one of us. Just a stranger on the bus trying to make his way back home. Nobody's talking on the phone not even toby larone so all right let's stop yeah no thank you everyone yeah i feel like we've already i feel like we're like neck deep in shit right now that we've stepped into a lot of heavy ground lewis finally rounded it off with some nice heretical speech. So we should probably end the podcast. Yeah, no, that's a good idea.

Yeah. I thank you both for once again doing it. We've done so many of these podcasts now. It's 160. I think we've done. We've been doing this for nearly five years. If you love God, it's like Bonnie and Clyde because he's a bit of a bad boy. That's all.

That's all I'm saying. You're just damning yourself deeper, buddy. You're just digging into the dam. Digging right in. Look, all you need to do is go into a little church and be like, I confess. And there you go. That's only Catholics! Nah, I'll do that later. I'm here to confess to you in your holy light, I have been street fighting once again.

I didn't want to do it, but I've been out there and I have been street fighting once again. I didn't want to do it, but I've been out there and I have been street fighting up a storm. Lord, I'd be a street fighting woman. All day, every day, I am fighting on the streets. Take that, Lord Bath. And my wife's been doing it too.

And I love her for it. I love her so much. A match made in heaven. We street fight together. Three Hail Marys and a couple of prayers. That's it. Yeah, just a couple of lashings. What do they call that when you whip yourself in the back? A good Saturday night?

Is that a flagellation? Yeah, yeah. That's a flagellation. Just a big, huge flagellate. I love that. You should cut down on the flagellating. It's bad for you. You should pat yourself on the back instead, like Donald Trump does.

Somebody's got to do it, I guess. Man, oh man. I'm going to pat myself on the back more often. It's actually quite satisfying. Yeah. Well done, me. Good job, me. Good street fight.

Another street fight. Another ass whooping delivered Well done smashing that guy's head into that fridge Well done See you next time See you next time everybody Bye