Triforce! - Triforce! #2: Civ VI

Episode Date: March 30, 2016

In Triforce today, Pyrion shares his well thought out notes on what would make Civ a better game.  Triforce is a podcast where Lewis, Sips and Pyrion chat about pretty much anything they want. Enjoy! Production music courtesy of Epidemic Sound. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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welcome back everyone did you watch the animation i I loved it. Yeah. It feels so professional. It was never meant to be so profesh, but it is. When you say the animation, do you mean like the bouncing triangles from the last podcast? Or was there a specific animated segment? No. No, that's what I was talking about. That'll come later.

Those will come later. Bouncing triangles. What did you think of your caricature? I like the top of your triangle being quite shiny i like that i felt that was either your touch or someone who knows the pain and anguish of having a shiny bald head yeah projecting that yeah do you have the whole larry david thing where you're you're fond particularly fond of bald other bald people you meet no i don't really care for anybody that I meet. I really, really like women with lots of hair.

That's my thing. If I see a woman like George Costanza had that thing. He likes a woman. There's a great bit in Seinfeld where Jerry's saying to George, what are you looking for in a woman? He goes, I like long lustrous hair. Really long thick lustrous hair. It's very important to me. And then he strokes his bald head

subconsciously. And I feel like that that speaks void like you know larry david understands that being bold you are instantly attracted to very long thick luscious hair on women and if i see a woman with really thick hair down halfway down her back i'm like oh yeah just let me do you reckon that's to do with being a teenager in the 80s, though, P-Flags? No, because I'm not talking about big bouffant hairspray hair. Like hairspray queens, yeah. Yeah, not like that. I'm not into that.

Just a quick Google of 80s hair will bring up a whole bunch of incredibly fluffy... A massive array of mullets and weird sort of valley girl froze. Yeah, that's no good. Is that no good? So what do you mean there? Do you mean very long? Do you mean like twice the length? I just mean it has to be natural and it needs to be long, thick hair.

I like that. More like a Mediterranean sort of, you know, like. That kind of thing. Women from the Mediterranean always have very thick, sort of dark, long hair. Only on their head though, right? Yeah, yeah. It has to be head hair because we don't want the beards. I'm not about that bearded women, no.

Back sack and crack needs to be without hair as well my opinion right i'm talking i'm talking laser it's getting specific because women on the continent do have very hairy backs it's it's true fact i've seen it can you laser your crack is that a thing are you allowed to do that or are you allowed to laser your crack yeah let me ask you let me ask you a more important question would you like to have someone shoot a laser at your genitals because personally i'm not about that life what if it goes wrong it's a laser beam it's a bit it's a bit blofeldish you know what i mean i watched enough james bond to know that a laser beam um coming close to your groin is a bad thing

and usually somehow there's going to be a shark involved somewhere too so i feel like no laser beams near the crotch are like a huge no-no like i'm conditioned now jay's jay's mom did have that laser beam very near his crotch but he was fine afterwards so i guess you know it's not gonna be if as long as you've got like a little lead like pouch around your man man parts i know but james bond is only one example of a very it's like a coin what about all of those other international spies who didn't have the same good fortune james bond yeah i mean yeah's right. Mutilated genitals thanks to lasers. Think about it.

Like, Blofeld was like, yeah, I'll stick him in the old laser crotch destroyer. He just pops him in there. How many people would be through that before? We call this one the mangler. No! My balls! No! If you watch that scene,

Blofeld isn't even looking at Bond. He's like turning away, chatting to the guy like, hey, did you watch that scene Blofeld isn't even looking at Bond he's like turning away chatting to the guy like hey did you watch that uh new sitcom last night what do you think the guy's like it wasn't for me he's like hey I like that show if you want to like the girl with the bouffant hairdo yeah I love that big long hair and Blofeld's like yeah Tony two times did you watch the show last night yeah I watched it two times. Hey, forget about it. That's why he's called Tony two times. Because he watches everything twice.

He's got to. Yeah, he doesn't get it the first time. So he has to do like another pass to make sure that he gets it. It definitely was that bouffant hair. Like Elaine from Seinfeld had the big old, at least originally, she had that massive hair. But that wasn't necessarily what I was talking about. Here, let me just clarify, right? I'm not saying that I want a woman's hair to be... You like hairy women.

Huge. We get it. I don't want it to be puffed up with hairspray and everything. Like Jennifer Lopez's hair, right? Let's have a look at Jennifer Lopez's hair. Lopez's hair. Look at the googly. Yeah, yeah. It's thick. Yeah, at Jennifer Lopez's hair. Lopez hair. Look at the googly. Yeah, yeah.

It's thick. Yeah, that's some nice hair. And I like the way it goes kind of little, you know, wavy at the bottom and looks a little... Like the girl from that 70s show. You know which one I'm talking about? The one with the dark hair? I didn't like that show. That 70s show girl.

No, I know, but the girl with the dark hair, whatever her name is, had very thick, lustrous hair. My life was that 70s show. He knows how it was, and it wasn't like that. What is this historical documentation doing on television? I don't understand. So what have you guys been playing this week, games-wise? Have you done anything fun? Done anything good?

I'm going to start. I've been on a a point and click adventure game binge recently i picked up a game called shardlight which is like a sort of a throwback to 90s point and click adventure games very pixelated low res sort of um pretty good story uh and it's been good it's about like eight nine hours to finish it. But it was cool. I liked it. I really enjoyed it. And then Day of the Tentacle, if you remember that game from 1993, was remastered and re-released. That came out this week.

So I've been playing that too. So like I've just been playing point and click adventure games. Did they re-record all the audio for it or not? I think they did. Yeah, it's pretty good. Because I saw like a side-by-side comparison and they sort of all they did was update the graphics they didn't like re they didn't like try and redo it or the graphics needed to be updated they got rid of the scum interface you

know like so they made it more sort of you use the mouse to click through you know pick up look at all that there's a whole bunch of developer commentary there's a whole bunch of concept art you know pickup look at all that there's a whole bunch of developer commentary there's a whole bunch of concept art you know the typical stuff that they put into like a remastered you know grim fandango was the same there was a whole bunch of like little extras and stuff and it was the main thing is that it's now playable on a modern system whereas before you had to get a emulator and fuck around with a bunch of stuff or whatever. So it would have been harder to enjoy that game, which is like a classic, and now you can. You just got to pay more money for it.

It's a trade-off, right? The thing about those point-and-click games I had a problem with was when I used to play them, because I remember playing the original Discworld point-and-click. Do you remember that? I never played that. No. Man, it was fucking hard as nails and you

had to do the most obscure things like put the rat in the phone or something it was ridiculous like there were these ridiculous things that you just when i was a kid there wasn't guides you couldn't go on the internet you didn't know what to do and so no those games took me weeks to get through yeah no i remember being my friend played monkey island 2 when it came out he got it for christmas i think the year that it came out we were pretty excited and it took us months to finish it because there was just little obscure things that we got stuck on but we experienced those games in such different ways right as well like it would be this thing where it would kind of like be the we'd have my friend would have his pc set up in the lounge and you know his parents would come around and look

over their shoulder like we'd look we'd be like throwing in suggestions it was just completely different way of doing stuff it kind of wasn't this thing that you and i think nowadays the danger of having the guide there um you know at your fingertips basically means that you either try and play it hardcore and it can be really frustrating if you're trying to do it on your own or you can just get through the whole game in about 25 minutes because the guide shows that the game is actually really really short remember um full throttle i think that was a sort of point and click it was yeah yeah it was probably that was probably one of the last

lucasarts point and clicks that came out that yeah actually did well sort of thing it was i think that was sort of the when the genre was dying out because i think adventure games as a as a game genre now are are pretty much dead there seems there's always been like a couple that have come out over the years and people think that there's like a bit of a revival or whatever. But I think it's a type of game now that's just not as compelling as it was. Like I don't think people need that kind of game anymore with so much out there and stuff. It's nuts. Do you know what I think it is?

Is that a lot of games now have so much of that sort of at a puzzle element to them anyway that it like games back then were much simpler and you couldn't diversify as much so you couldn't have a shooter that also had puzzle elements and the discovery elements and that kind of stuff in it as easily because games were just not capable of being that big and varied yeah so i think if you specify an adventure game that's point and click it feels really simple and i mean for instance if you look at something like firewatch for instance which i wasn't a fan of it but it is essentially a point and click adventure that's 3d yeah so it's kind of i think it's quite similar in a way that um the games now have said well we can still do that but in, but in a different and more sort of expansive way than just having a simple 2D pixel art guy walks into frame, goofy line, goofy line.

It's an interesting – And you need to combine the gum with the guy's ear to steal his earwax and then use that on the machine. And it's just... Well, I mean, that's like... So there's different types of adventure games too, right? And the two that I mentioned to begin with, Shardlight and Day of the Tentacle, are at, you know, polar opposite ends. Because Day of the Tentacle is a LucasArts adventure game. From 1993.

For being very funny, well-written written kind of wacky and zany three-year-old game yeah yeah but a lot of the times the puzzles aren't really straightforward you know there'll be really obscure things that you have to combine together because they set up jokes and they they sort of add to the you know universe that you're in or whatever whereas shardlight's a much more serious game and the puzzles are a lot more sort of apparent. You know, like you use a crossbow to shoot something. It's like really straightforward. Whereas I don't think a LucasArts game

would let you get away with that. You know, just like, just the sort of thing that you would expect, you know, like I'm going to pick up the gun and I'm going to shoot it. It has to be some long convoluted thing that eventually leads to somebody else shooting the gun or something that sets up a joke or whatever. So it's a bit different.

But the point that Pirion made about Firewatch being a point and click adventure, I would agree with that. The difference with Firewatch is that because of the way that it was and the way that the game like sort of presented itself as an experience to you there was a lot more atmosphere in the game that you don't get in a point and click adventure game i don't think because you have such a different view of like a 2d adventure game right you don't feel totally immersed in it you know you're not scared to see what's around the next corner you're not scared by like a phone call coming to you in the middle of the night or whatever like you know what i mean like you have you have a different sort of view of the game versus firewatch you do feel like immersed you feel like you're the character sometimes you know

it's in the middle of the night and then the fucking radio goes off and you're like oh my god i'm gonna shit my pants like this is kind of scary and stuff which you don't get in like a point and click adventure game so it's a different experience i But I mean, they're all pretty good games. I also just think maybe people sort of have changed what they want from a game. Like maybe the mass market for point and clicks just isn't there anymore. Like how many Westerns get made these days? You know, not many. No.

And that used to be pretty much all that was made. If you turn on Film 4 or BBC 2 or whatever, you flick it around during the day for a movie, get made these days you know not many no and that used to be pretty much all that was made if you look at if you turn on film four or bbc2 or whatever you flick it around during the day for a movie it'll be a friggin western because they're cheap as chips and there's a billion of them and they're all the same right but yeah at that time people loved watching westerns and now westerns are super rare and they're all they only really come out they're like ultra gritty and grim and like uh or you know like true true grit or um what was that one called the thing is right this makes me think that it's bringing up all these memories because i remember

i think i've played every fucking point and click right because i mean i just brought up full throttle but i played all the broken sword games i've played sam and max i played all the monkey island games i think there's even a star trek point and click that was one of the first games i've played all of them and do you know what i i i have fond memories of all of them like in a way like i don't think i've enjoyed the monkey island games since about the second one but i know there have been about five because i've played them all and i i don't i think it's kind of this, it's a little bit like Sorcery, you know, the iOS game that's now coming out on Steam.

I think it's out on Steam very soon, Sorcery 3. And 80 Days, have you played those? They're great iOS games where it's almost like a story game with a little bit of a puzzle element in there. And, you know, it's got RPG elements in Sorcery and things like that because you do sort of bring a

little inventory and and it's like those adventure books so in many ways i think a lot of these early games were bringing a book into a sort of a virtual world yeah and adding like this extra thing and in the same way that a movie is a visual display of a story or a book or you know and these are these things are all linked i think that that we do you know what i don't think there's there's less of games i think there's just more of all games i think the gaming industry has grown 10 100 000 fold since 1993 and that's there if you want to get good point and clicks they're still coming out if you want to get space sims you know, Master of Orion's being remade. You know, we're playing it and, you know, we don't rate it particularly

because maybe we've just moved on since, you know, maybe we don't want a remake of an old game like StarCraft 2. I don't want a fucking remake of StarCraft. Fuck StarCraft. StarCraft needs to be innovated upon and made better. Like, fucking, the thing I hated most about StarCraft 2 was that it was starcraft right i wanted some fucking innovation i didn't want a remake of a game which i don't want to

play anymore i wanted i wanted like stuff where i didn't want to have to click a button for every single marine okay every other rts you right click on that button that builds a marine and it auto produces marines okay that's one of my tiny examples about why StarCraft II is shit, right? It's shit because it's just too fucking nerdy, too much clicking. It makes me mad because I think I'd like to play RTS. I'd like to play a really polished RTS.

I'd like to have a go at it again, but I don't want to play it, the most tedious game in the universe. I know. I feel like there's good balance, right? I think the thing with starcraft 2 and specifically when it comes to that is that they wanted to make it a idea not not accessible to but to appeal to pro gamers and to have that high skill cap and if you can just click auto

build that is that would be great for casual filthy casuals like you and me lulu but um when it comes to like playing that at a high level, it takes away a huge amount of the skill of macro and micromanagement that makes StarCraft appealing. I don't want to play StarCraft. I stopped playing it a long time ago when I got into Dota. But, for instance, to talk about making things easier, this patch is coming out for Dota, this spring cleaning patch,

that makes some things that in my opinion should be there to help people right yeah and they're like people are like this is making this is dumbing it down for the idiots out there what is this a mobile game now you know it's like no calm down it's just you click on a tower you can see the tower's attack range why does that need when are they gonna cater to are they going to cater to me, though, P-Flax? Okay? I'm a high-level player, alright? I don't need any of these features, so-called, quote-unquote, features that they're adding to the game, to make

it simpler, okay? I don't even need to be able to see my hero. I'm doing wrestling entrances to tournaments on a jumbo jet, okay? And what I need from this game is the competitive edge, okay? I need them to make it more difficult because I actually have 15 fingers and a highly developed brain as well.

God, blimey. Unbelievable. There's loads of examples. These changes are for kids. There's loads of examples in Dota. One of the classic examples in Dota is that you are running away from some guy. Let's say he's a guy with a stun, like a Vengeful Spirit. You don't know whether he's got enough mana or not,

but you can click on him to see how much mana he's got, but it's not shown above his health bar like yours is. There used to be mods and things like this in games like Heroes of Newerth that would add that. And there used to be mods in Heroes of Newerth that would add, for example, with Shadow Fiend. You play Shadow Fiend or whatever it was called in Heroes of Newerth. And you'd be able to see where the razors were coming down. And it would be this.

And do you know what? You can do these things. These things do exist. And they're on Dota. And they're called training games or mini games. You know, there's a mod in the Dota workshop where you can go in there and you can actually go to a thing and it will show you all the ward spawn boxes and you can put wards down and you can test and you can learn it's like a training arena so i mean i can see when people are arguing these don't need to be in the main game these these these arena bits but at the same

time they they they enhance the you want to make enough changes that enhance the game and allow the game to be accessible and fun without it being this tedious shit i don't want to fucking go into this stupid mini game like stacking camps in dota right it's cancerously bad it's no fun when your camp doesn't stack and and it's not because you, it's because you've clicked it at the wrong time. It's because you have to learn individually each camp, where to pull, when to pull, like how to pull, how many it can do. You have to learn that for like 15 fucking camps. And it's. But I mean, that's a really good example because that's something that I always just assumed.

And if you don't know much about Dota and camp stacking and stuff, I'm sorry, but I mean, I'm not going to explain it. I don't think either of these guys are into it either. Anyway, I would say that it's an obscure mechanic, okay? Somebody who's just starting to play the game or learning how to play the game will not know about that. And that sort of leads me to believe that maybe it wasn't intended design. You know, like, i don't think that when they were designing dota 2 as a game to be played they really considered that people would actively

do that or it would become this like staple high level strategy sort of thing it's something that i think players just started doing uh and it became like a popular thing to do and now it's become so part of the game but it's it it seems like kind of a now it's become so part of the game. But it seems like kind of a shame that it has become part of the game as well. Like, because it takes away focus from the fun elements of the game and forces you to do this really dumb shit in the game just to like sort of keep up

because you know the other team is doing it. You know what I mean? Like, you have to do it now. I really like it. I like it because it does add a tactical element to the game. And I think it would be bad to remove that kind of stuff or to not reward it. And the idea that you have to do something

because the enemy's doing it, well, then the response that you do to that, and we had this in a game the other day, is they stack the camps and you go as a group and steal their stacks. So it's like, or you can make your own stacks, or you can just lose because their carry is going to get more farm, or you can, you know, there are multiple responses to that situation.

And I kind of like that variety. And I also think what you were saying about how the camp stacking was probably an accident, I agree. It almost certainly was a simple check. Like, so imagine that you have these little areas in the jungle, which is sort of a neutral area, and there are monsters that just randomly spawn on the minute mark on that location. If there's nothing else there, either an existing neutral enemy or a player or an observer ward, right? So what you can do is go and attack the enemies.

They'll follow you out of the spawn box. If there's nothing in there, some new neutrals will spawn in you walk away the original neutrals now go back and you have twice as many there and you can repeat that like three four five times so you get these what we call stacks of guys yeah that is worth doing but it's also a risk reward because the enemy can come and farm them or you know i think that the broader topic here is i think it's a little bit like the psychology of gaming in a sense that you know why they put those little puzzles in Mass Effect or whatever. So when you're going or picking locks, right, in Fallout,

it's to break up the repetitive shooting, right? It's why in Wolfenstein, which I really enjoyed, actually, I didn't like, I finished, last week I talked about how I really enjoyed The New Order. I really enjoyed, actually, I didn't like. Last week I talked about how I really enjoyed The New Order. I really did enjoy it. I thought it was great. I feel like Wolfenstein is going to be something that we end up talking about every week somehow. It's just one of those things where it's like.

I played the DLC, right, which is called The Old Whatever. Is it any good? The Old Whatever. Wolfen something. The Old Whatever. I didn't enjoy it. It's crap? I didn't rate it at all. I didn't enjoy it. It's crap? I didn't rate it at all.

I didn't rate the DLC at all compared to the original game. It just didn't hold up to any of the... It felt like this thing that was like, okay, we better rush this out because we agreed to do one. And it was just unfortunate. It was comparison. In comparison, it wasn't good. But the psychology of these games is that it breaks up that pace.

And so I think that whether stacking in the jungle was intended or unintended i think that it gives players things to do that breaks up the fighting and the laning and it's a different thing you know it's that same thing you don't you just need a simple like lock picking mini game in skyrim to break up the wandering in the wilderness and the killing of undead you know it helps to have these little mini games in games you see them more and more um it is a bit of a psychology thing i think the one one thing just very quickly going back to what we were sort of talking about with point and click games i think some games have used the game and the power of 3d and the power of things really well like one one thing i would love to say is The Room on iOS 1, 2, and 3.

They're all great games. If you haven't played them, you really should. They are fantastically clever, little, good, really enjoyable puzzle games that could not be done without a computer. Okay? They just couldn't. I mean, imagine playing dota without a computer

no i'm sorry like in the sense that stacks of camps oh my god i need the paper clips oh geez in the sense that 80 days of sorcery are very they they're they're enhanced by being in a computer but but i think that it's so i I don't know, it's a room. It's just so unique. So do you have any games that you are absolutely in love with and you want to see more of and you can't play enough of? Me? Yeah. My imaginary version of Civilization

that I've been working on for about three months. Okay. I've been working on this imaginary version of Civ civ 6 and i've been writing this big list of documents and i've been thinking about is your like house right now like russell crowe a beautiful mind with paper everywhere and ideas and your wife is just like not not civ 6 again period jeez stop it stop talking about civ 6 but it's a great idea honey it's good it's good to make the big time sit my ass is gonna want to suck my dick after i'm done with this one if you come if you go into my living room i'm generally sat there in my underwear there's like

candles around and in in the middle of the living room there's like a framed picture of Sid covered in like kiss marks. And all my notes around that. And occasionally I say a prayer to Microprose Games or whoever made the original Sid. You got the candles. You got like the tribal music and stuff. History books are all like open at certain points and everything. I'm just like, they were wrong about the Byzantine era. I knew it.

This is going to change my notes about everything I'm like scrapping a whole wall just quickly so is this something you do in the shower or you go to bed thinking about and then you flip the bedside light on and you scribble some notes or I've started to take time out every day

instead of just napping I used to be on two naps a day because I love a nap in and up, right? So I trimmed that back. I respect that. It's great. I trimmed it back to one nap and then one thinking time, okay?

Meditation. Yeah, you could call it that. I just made it up. It's a completely new original idea, right? You can call it meditation if you want. I call it thinking time. Dad's thinking time. Yeah, patented period thinking time so i

just i lie on the sofa i i cover my eyes so it's like dark i'm listening out the kids are playing their drawing and stuff like that and i'm just like zoned out the tv's off and everything and i'll just let my wine sort of wander and i'll just think but i won't worry about stuff like i won't sit there my wife if she has any spare time she worries that's what she does with her spare thinking time is she frets and she plans and she thinks oh we should really get this done and we've got to worry about that whereas i just zone out everything and i just think i just let my mind wander and imagine stuff so i've started thinking about civ 6 i'm imagining sitting down and playing my imaginary version of civ 6 and the stuff i'd like to see in it and how i think the game will

play out and the stuff that i think has gone wrong. And I really think over the mechanics of Civilization and what I would like to change, and then how I would fit that into my version of Civ. Nice. This is amazing. It's been really interesting. I love this. It's been really interesting.

This reminds me of, right, when I was a kid, I used to love playing Warhammer. And me and my friend used to play Warhammer. We can't be more than about nine or ten, right? Right. And the time when I played Warhammer was the time when Necromunda had just come out, and it was this big thing,

and they were promoting all the game shops. And whenever you go into a Warhammer shop, there's always a cycle, right? It's like Blood Bowl. I think I missed Blood Bowl, right? Yeah, yeah. But you were a little bit older than me, so you were the Blood Bowl generation.

Yeah. But bear in mind, there weren't Games Workshop stores the way there are now, like all over the place. It was rare. There were hobbyist stockists that you'd go into. Well, there were when I was a kid. Model shops and stuff. So maybe it was a new thing then. So Necromunda was this sort of arena battle game.

Anyway, I built this whole thing up in my head as a kid because this is what kids do they're so creative and inventive anyway i wrote this incredibly massive long-winded story and document about how like you know about this gang that i created and how i envisioned it fighting and all these scenarios and all this stuff and i sent it all into um white dwarf who's the warhammer magazine And they sent me a very nice letter back saying, oh, you know, thank you for your great ideas. You know, I'm really looking forward to having a go at your campaign and stuff. And then I think they sent me another letter back saying,

we tried out your campaign. It was like so, so hard. All of our squad died. They were really nice and accommodating to my nine-year-old foolish self. But that's what I can sort of envision you're a little bit like now. You've just got this, you're like, it's almost like-

Like a nine-year-old Louis Brindley. Is that how they signed off the letter? You're a fool, Louis. It's sincerely Games Workshop, all of us. P.S. You will never work here, ever. You will never work in this industry, you clown. So I imagine P-Flex wakes up in the morning in the Buddhist temple on top of a lonely mountain in Thailand,

looking out over this wonderful landscape. And he descends to his brothers and they all nod and they're all wearing a t-shirt that's like civilization it's like kind of all they've got like robes but they're in a specific style and then

he sort of goes out onto the balcony and he sort of does a prayer to micropose and then he sits down his fingers pinch together like you're about to snap you know like this and um yeah you just go baba you do you sing the holy theme of the people yeah you like walk into a temple and sid meyer's just sitting on a throne and you just give him that knowing look and then out of nowhere like a lightsaber appears and you just chop his head off and then you sit down on the throne you're like exactly civ 6 motherfuckers now i will make civ 6 oh man so tell me do you have any examples yeah

yeah i've got the notes i'll give you i'll give you an example okay this is amazing so think about the way and this is true of pretty much all 4X games, all right? How do they handle population growth? Here's how they handle it. This is like a geography lesson. It's always just with the food, right? I didn't know what I expected. I didn't know what I expected.

Abundance of food. Just wait. So here's how they handle population growth, okay? You make more food and more people turn up. But that's not how it works. It's supply and demand. If you have more people, you need more food. So what I'm thinking is the population will continue to grow,

but you better have farmland there to support that population. And also think about this. It's not like the government says, you, go out and farm that field. They just, like, farmers farmers exist that's how they make their living same as people who are lumberjacks or cattle ranches or whatever that's what they do and the government benefits from it and tries to like protect society and so i want to be more about the macro management stuff rather than literally saying we need a road between this town

and this forest so i like the idea of if you're using a lot of trees, like if I want to build Spearman, we're going to need some trees for that. We're going to need some metal for the points and stuff. So you start off with a sort of vague view of your surroundings, but rather than have a, oh, I want to build a city here, but it's three tiles short of that forest and it'll need to be near this hill.

That's stupid. There's no forest and it'll need to be near this hill. Like, that's stupid. There's no way that people are going to go, it's just too far for us to get to that vital resource. I hate that. So I want it to be more about a province and the people expand so that you get an idea of the fact that, well, we're using this forest and we're using this river and we're using these hills, so we consider this part of our shit. This is our shit right here because we use it

so if you can you know legitimately lay claim to the fact that you're using a forest that's your forest that's how shit works it's not like there's a hard border that exists there's three tiles in this direction that direction that's bullshit it makes it like a board game i want it to grow in relation to the geography and how you use it i I mean, do you want your people to be kind of free, like free market? Because that's kind of how it's supposed to work. Yeah, no, I like that idea. Where you impose laws, like the one-child policy. So would your policy be like the six-child policy?

So you'd control how many kids people are having. Well, let's say you want to help grow the population. For instance, don't have any wars right wars should cost population that's where soldiers come from not from the end of the war not from a hammer kill men they don't kill women right but the point is that that is still population isn't it that is still population talking about wars kill women too like well yeah world war two civilian casualties made up the sort of bulk of the 55 million people worldwide that died during World War II. Oh, yeah.

But back in the day, we're not talking about like, well, modern war is very different. But even so, a lot more men died in World War II than women. Well, maybe. No, I mean, you consider that like entire cities were obliterated with carpet bombing and stuff. I don't think that that's the case. I think lots and lots and lots of people died. Troop losses, yeah. Maybe troop losses, you could say.

Obviously, they were almost all dudes. But either way, it's still costing you population. Men are people too, Lewis, you monster. All right? Yeah, that's true. But it's not quite so so i mean obviously yeah obviously you're going to lose population i think that's it makes sense period that that would affect your civilization yeah it would so so you're you've got your little city there you've got

like eight population or whatever you shouldn't just be able to churn out dozens of units because where are all these dudes coming from yeah you don't just make a bow and a man appears to hold the bow. So you wouldn't be able to have a civilization that's just expanding this vast military beyond the means of its population. So let's say you want to gear up for war, you're thinking we need some more people. So I'd have like, instead of just a city state, there would be minor nations and taking them out, you know, if you want to, you could do that. You get the whole warlord thing, you'd be more of a kind of – and that would shape your people. So decisions you make would shape what kind of people you have in your society. So if you're the kind of society that's going around crushing people,

dominating people, that's going to have an effect on your national character because you're known and your people are part of that system of oppression and conquest so you're not going to you know there will be benefits for instance perhaps in that uh scenario you might have less uh culture and artists and but you might be very good at like military science and production and stuff so your your civilization would be shaped not by some decision made on high like i'm going to be rational now because i've researched rational it's like well no because what have you done to actually grow to that point like if you've

built a lot of libraries and you've focused on science and stuff your civilization is going to be more of a scientific civilization and their their nature will be defined by their history so i i like that so i want to see it grow rather than just a simple of very board gamey choices of uh we're going to build it here so i just a simple, a very board gamey choices of, Oh, we're going to build it here so I can get this horse and that hill and that tree and that mountain. I want it to be,

well, we've been using that river and we've been using that tree. So that's our borders. Those are our boundaries and it grows and little towns and villages and shit. I love, I love all that stuff, man.

So I think that we just need to put you in contact with Fraxis, get you, you know, like the level of presentation, Man, so I think that we just need to put you in contact with Fraxis. Get you in touch. You know, like the level of detail that you've like put into this and the amount of thought that you've put into this. I do the same thing, but I want to redefine pornography. Like, I think that the staple sort of, hey, your pizza's here. Oh, but I don't have any money to pay you with. You know, like it's been done. When was the last time you watched any pornography?

We're sick of watching that pornography, okay? We want to see something new and fresh and like, you know, how about like two people working on an oil rig and it's like a forbidden love? That's the pornography I want to see, okay? I'm sick of the pizza boy. Have you not noticed the way porn has changed? There's a forbidden love that's the pornography i want to see okay i'm sick of the pizza boy have you not noticed the way porn has changed there's no story where's the story now it's just exactly there's a woman there she she shows you attention she shows you all her goodies and then some erect penis just hovers into view and boom we're out of this story you know and and the potty mouth as well it It's like, you know, come on, give me a bit of dialogue.

You know, let's have like a bit of lead up. Like, oh, gosh, looks like there's been a rupture in sector six. We better go check it. I've got a huge boner right now. Well, let's get it on. And then it just turns into O-Rig management. I would love to watch some of that. That's just an example.

You know, there could be like other stuff, you know, like what about cops on the beat? You know, be like, yeah, we got a 187 reported at Frank's liquor store. Can you copy? Sorry, I'm blowing a guy in the back of my cop car. Unable to copy. I have a code 69 going on in the back of his car. Yeah. Jesus. Code 69. Oh, my God. to copy i have a code 69 going on in the back of this car yeah jesus oh my god someone needs to clap for that somebody needs to get on all of this because i'm getting bored over here okay like the same it's the same shit over and over and over and like i want a bit of pizzazz pizzazz

i don't want pizza i want pizzazz okay like take let's take the pizza out of pornography okay never again should they make a pornography video or movie with that storyline in it they do I'm sorry like 20 years ago yeah you're just you're watching your 1990s VHS you're still watching VHS's over there I know i found them in my friend's basement they're my they were his dad's he had a whole stack of unmarked vhs tapes like in the boiler room of his house and then we we watched them yeah and that was it it was all pizza delivery and tennis lessons what fucking tennis lessons i mean come on nobody's having sex at a tennis lesson okay oil rigs though you never know you're out there you're isolated yeah you know it's just

two guys two dudes you know two guys out there you know working hard but playing harder it's and there's a helicopter coming in with a with a set of supplies yeah supplies just happens to be tennis coach yeah like a bunch of like masseuses and what are we gonna do with with all this lube oh geez looks like they got the delivery wrong again what are we gonna do with or 3 000 gallons of lube! Jeez! Oh, shit. Oh, man. Can I tell you more about my, just one more thing about my Civ VI thing? Because I want to see what you think about this idea, okay?

Okay, I'm ready. So, you know the way you've got your gold and you've got your tourism and you've got your research and all that? I thought another resource that you could develop and spend would be called authority. Okay. So your authority represents how well you've managed your people's needs and security and how much faith they have in you. And also the punishments you've meted out to sort of give you the authority that you need to do things like, say, build a castle. Because, you know, I mean, sorry, you build a castle, so you'd get some authority from that. So if you wanted to do things like change some laws or do something, your authority would be affected by that.

And you can then spend your authority on various things I haven't come up with yet, but I'll come up with it. But it's like a measure of your power and your influence and how likely people are to do what you tell them and be happy and not rebel, because you've got the authority level to keep them in check. And you get little quests from your population like there are some bandits fucking up my shipping route. Can you handle that? And you do it and you get some authority or you fail to do it and you lose some authority.

So it's kind of like a flexible resource as well. And I kind of like that idea of your authority is not based on how many fucking stadiums you can build because it's not like the lack of football stadiums and zoos is what's keeping britain from turning into open revolt it's the sense that there's an authoritative power in charge and our needs are more or less met that's what keeps us in check not fucking circuses you know what i'm saying well i wouldn't underestimate a circus at the same time though well it would have to be one hell of a circus sips i'm talking like the moscow city circus you know the dudes that can like contort and stuff you like that huh yeah that's a setting for a porno right that's a good that's a great one yeah we're just in from moscow for a circus oh i don't have any money to buy a ticket well will this do yeah it will actually fuck how about some pizza well

this guy again this guy just turns up yeah hey how about a bit get out of here you bum we're oil rig workers it doesn't make sense. How'd you get here? Come on. Man, your Civ VI ideas are pretty good. I'm not into Civ enough to fully appreciate them, but I think if you're a Civ buff, maybe those are really good. They'll tear it apart, but I don't care. I've got all kinds of ideas. I like it.

Do you know what? It's a little bit like your religion. It's your religion. It's your peaceful place right now. Yeah. People can't break that down. People can't tear that apart. They can't take it away from you.

They can't take it away from you. It's mine. Pyrrion's Imaginary Civ VI is a game that I play in my head, and you can't touch that. It's the MC Hammer of thought. You cannot take it away from me. Maybe with a laser we could get it. No, you can't laser it out.

It sort of makes you think, like, if you could play a game right now, even a game that doesn't exist, I guess for you it would be your Civ VI. Yeah, yeah. Just to see how it goes. I'd like to work on it. For me, I would love to. And some games have tried this before and failed. There's been a couple of different, it's got to be a city builder for me because I love playing city building games.

But I want to play a city builder that feeds into something, right? So you have like a city and like, I'm not talking like a modern city. Like I'm talking banished, you know, like old style, medieval Hamlet. And then you build it up into like a town and a city and stuff. But I would love to have something that I fed into that other people did, you know. So you'd have a region or like a county with a couple of little towns in it. And, you know, you could trade between the cities. You could make resources that fed into it. You know, somebody could sort of develop some sort of kingdom or something and decide to go to war.

And then they could come to you, try to get taxes from you or like resources from you. And you could say, no, I want to stay independent. I don't want anything to do with this or whatever. Or, yeah, you know, I'll supply this and stuff. And I think that would be awesome. I would love to play that. But I think that would be awesome i would love to play that but i think it'd be very very hard to make yeah and it'd be very hard to get it right but i just love that i love starting with nothing and building something but then that's something being useful towards something bigger you know what i mean because that is that is the problem

with a lot of these games is you build the thing and it's just there and now you have it and it's like what now like yeah it would be good to to then manage it on a sort of macro scale would be kind of interesting yeah or something like factorio you know you you land on a planet there's some resources you have to set up a system whereby you can just get all of these resources and it fed back into something you know it'd be awesome if they added like a factorial mini game to like eve online or something like that where you could just go off colonize like a little a cool little base on a planet extract like all of the resources but do it very efficiently and you have to sort of make it so that all of this stuff can leave the planet regularly and you know get to

where it needs to go and sometimes it can be intercepted by pirates or whatever and that would be awesome i would love that i would love to play that game but again can you imagine can you imagine playing civ where when your city gets to a certain point you have to go and city skyline that city that'd be awesome so you then spend 25 hours playing city skylines come back to sieve like three weeks later hitler on your doorstep with like 50 hours of snow while you've been uh building that motorway we're here oh shit i would love that that would be that would be like my dream game but again i think it'd be too hard to do and i think it would be it's not that the technology would hold it back i think

it would just be too hard to get it right so that people would want to play it and it would not be just a big fucking complicated mess of shit did you ever play a game it was it was a it was a games workshop game it was it looked like settlers of of Catan before Settlers of Catan existed. It was like a series of hexagonal tiles. Was it called Citadels and Cityscapes or something? Let me just Google this. Google it. He's Googling it.

So what else have you been playing this week, Sips? Have you played anything good this week? No, that's it. I played that, and off and on i've been playing the division which everybody seems to dislike it but for some reason i actually kind of like it so far i haven't gotten to the end game yet so yeah maybe i still haven't i still haven't installed it i will i will i promise but i'm so busy um i had no internet at home and so one of the things i was doing i've got internet now um so hopefully i'll no internet at home. And so one of the things I was doing, I've got internet now.

So hopefully I'll just be back in Dota. But one of the things I'd be doing every day is doing like one of the runs on Binding of Isaac. So they've added this in Binding of Isaac expansion after birth. There's basically this daily challenge, which Nilesy and Rithian are into. And did you ever play Binding of Isaac?

No. I've played it briefly, like not enough to fully appreciate how many, like people love that game, don't they? It's like a mini cult. It's pretty old school. Yeah. And like the way that it's a kind of,

in many ways it's like a bullet hell. And we're combined with a sort of very randomized RPG system of stacking items together and getting a lot of synergy. And, man, I've really enjoyed it. So this week I did mostly I just do the daily sort of challenges where it starts you with a character who's already sort of got an item or something like that that's pretty rare and unusual. And so you play the game and

every run is always totally different i've played maybe like 20 runs this week and every one i my character is completely different in in so many ways like one one of my guys is surrounded by orbiting like creatures who shoot shit one of them is like a giant fly. One of them like laser beams. Anyway, I finished it. Well, I killed Mum and Mum's heart 11 times. So then I unlocked all of the special stuff. And that unlocks the two areas from the Rebirth, which are the Cathedral and like Sheol,

which is like super, super hell. Super hell? It's great. It's like you go up to heaven and hell are the two sort of endgame-y places. So I killed Isaac, who's the boss of Cathedral, with the blue baby, which is like really hard to do. And that unlocks an item on Isaac called the D6. And so whenever a new item drops in a treasure room,

you can re-roll it. And so it's really powerful because you can basically say, oh, this is a crappy item, I'll re-roll it. And you basically get two chances to get something good that synergizes with you. And man, it feels great playing Binding of Isaac. You can become very you can become very very very powerful once you once you get a feel for the controls it just becomes very satisfying

to to go through the levels to and even like after i've played like a bunch of runs this week it feels like i've not even like scratched the surface of items so i've kind of finished the game in a sense i haven't i haven't finished the game in that I haven't unlocked hardly anything in the game. I've not really killed the bosses in Afterbirth or gone through that stuff. But I also killed Mega Satan, who's the boss of Geol. Mega Satan. He's fucking nails. And man, it's great because it's got really good progression

in that game. You know, you start off and you're quite noob and you have to fight mom and you do it and you win and it's like fucking fantastic and you're like man, that was really satisfying. It was hard but I did it. And then you do it again and it unlocks more stuff so it's like, okay, there's now two more

floors to kill with much, much harder things and another boss. And then after that it's like okay it's another floor another boss another floor another boss and it it kind of is it's great it's a little bit like i love that roguelikes that's that that game like the ftl the roguelike game where there's so many so many like randomized things that happen that every game is different and and sometimes you can get lucky and sometimes you can get unlucky but the best games are those like like binding wise that where even if you're unlucky there's still things you can do so for example there's like a dice room okay that you can find yeah and if you step on the dice it will re-roll all of your items

so i was like just the most gimped character right and i was like oh i'm just i need to restart because i'm just struggling through and then i found a dice room was like oh holy fucking shit i rewrote all my items and suddenly i'm like firing fucking laser beams that cover the entire screen i'm like i'm using a completely different set of stuff or like you know oh man it was it was amazing i'm i'm just i've been completely converted because I wasn't really a Binding of Isaac fan I thought oh it's too hard it's too complicated

I can't do it yeah I think I'm like that I've heard of it and I know bits and pieces about it but I don't have any appreciation for how good of a game

it is sort of thing yeah same here I haven't played it enough man I just I'll have to I'll have to share it with you because man I can see why Nilesy

has had such a passion for so long and a lot of people play a lot of Binding Bites. Yeah, a lot of people play it. Yeah. Yeah. I might have to try it out. By the way, Mighty Empires, for anyone wondering, was the name of the board game I was talking about.

Mighty Empires. Mighty Empires. It was an old, old Games Workshop game. It was still made when they did miniatures under Citadel Miniatures, which I think was a company that was presumably absorbed by Games Workshop to make miniatures for them. But it was, you had a bunch of hexes, like Settlers of Catan, you turn them all the other way up and then you drew them and you built a map. But what you were meant to do was then for each battle on the Mighty Empires map, the end goal was that that would then be a Warhammer fantasy battle battle. So you wouldn't just roll a couple of dice, you'd go spend a weekend fighting that battle between the orcs and the the men at the at this river crossing so you'd have to set up your

warm up fantasy battles map to sort of match the terrain that the tiles were on so it was like a way of managing your campaign that was the dream and i we were like this would never happen can you imagine it this was in the 80s when computers were still shit. And that's basically what Total War is and it's now. It's a game that exists. Wow. It just blows my mind. And here's Warhammer Total War

coming out pretty soon, isn't it? Warhammer Total, yeah. That's exactly, it is exactly what Mighty Empires was in the 80s in my imagination

and now here it is on the computer. Fuck. May 24th. Yeah, yeah, there it is. Only the AI will probably be garbage because, God bless them,

they can't code AI to save their lives, those boys, but they'll give it a go. Honestly, Warhammer is what Total War has needed for a long fucking time. You know, it's needed fantasy. It's needed big old ogres stomping around and, you know, giant fucking monsters and it's needed that that warhammer feel

to make it better because i personally not a fan of total war i've played all of them no i i really can't stand them though i can't stand the battles i can't stand the the the way it sort of functions and you know what the very first pc game i ever played was a game called shadow of the horned rat okay um which is a warhammer game and it was like a war it was like it's like total warhammer you know you had your a little army and it was a little sort of campaign army and you sort of fought i mean i remember it very nostalgically and fondly but i think if i saw it again today it I'd think it looked terrible. But that was the first PC game I had.

And I think that that sort of spoiled Total War games for me, because I was always hoping there would be these cool stuff, you know, and it wasn't. Total War was just pretty boring. I mean, I don't want to say war is boring,

right? And these battles are boring, but they kind of are boring. I mean, I don't want to say war is boring, right? But, and these battles are boring, but they kind of are boring. It was really good. I mean, Rome Total War, the first one, the originally medieval Total War felt really good. And then the second one was really good. Shogun, like the Total War Shogun 2

was the best that they've made, in my opinion. It was incredible. It was a genuinely really, really good game. But the problem is, all right, maybe you find the battles boring or whatever, but the AI in the battles is routinely at release, just unplayable. Like in Empire, you would have these sieges

and the game was broken. The AI would never attack. You couldn't leave your citadel because then they would easily win. So you just had to wait out the battle timer and it would be like you would have to tick the option that says please limit battles to one hour so you'd have to tick one hour and then fast forward the game and wait about eight minutes for it to fast forward through the hours everyone just stands there on the battlements and his guys all stand there watching from afar and that was like the

average siege in Empire for me. Or they would just go, hey, cavalry are quick. So they'll get to the enemy first. So the cavalry, the enemy cavalry just runs at you. You obliterate them. And then his infantry come to you. You obliterate them because you've got cavalry and they haven't. It's like, well, did you guys not test this?

That's the problem I have with the game is that AI is just awful. I think that this is the worry that I'm going to have with Warhammer. I think that it's not just the individual AI of that stuff. It's the individual AI of your own troops too, right? It's so fiddly to tell them exactly where you want them to be and they fucking make these weird decisions. There's a lot of weird stuff about charging into flanking. It's all just a bit messy.

I mean, I love looking at and reading about old battles on Wikipedia or whatever, and you see how these things went. Like a classic, like, oh, they were in a ravine and there was a hill on this side and the archers were here and they cavalry charged around the side. I want to play that, but this fucking game has always

made it so awkward and fucking shitty that it's torture and also you are controlling a bunch of identical faceless nameless minions who were kind of there's no invest you know invested feel to any of them you know i think even back in the day like when i played shadow of the horned rat that was the first one i played um the way the sort of campaign worked was that you started off with a group of horsemen and a group of infantry and they were they were named you know your guys and then as you as it went on you recruited other bands of people like a band of archers and a cannon and stuff like that and you could recruit like a bunch of pikemen and they would be named they would have like a kind of story behind them a cannon and stuff like that. And you could recruit like a bunch of pikemen and they would be named.

They would have like a kind of story behind them. And so at least then when you built your army, it felt like you were kind of going in with this thing that was sort of you were attached to. Whereas I think in Total War, it's more like I've got five units of halberds, five units of longer halberds, five units of short halberds,

five units of swords halberds, five units of mounted halberds, units of short halberds five units of swords halberds five units of mounted halberds five units of fuck off i don't care they're all the same it doesn't help me right there's no uniqueness there's no everyone you can have like light armored medium armored medium light armored medium heavy armored skirmishing light heavy armored medium fucking armored shielded who cares they're all they don't mean anything annoying i wish it was like just one like i've played so i played like very briefly total war games right and is it like a fairly common thing when you play it a lot to just auto resolve like the fights or is is is the thing with that game you have to

do because that's like the main part of the game that's what you're doing when you're also resolving by the way well you are skipping the entire game you might as well be playing fucking chess yeah because i just thought that maybe the game was really good like on a grand strategy level you know like making making a granary and you know having a you know dude become a king and stuff like that and i just found the i just found the fights really tedious in the end like sort of like lewis was saying you just have these columns of guys and they just seem to gyrate around against each other and it just didn't really feel that fun i just auto resolved

them all the time and then just some of them the ones that were obvious that i was going to win or lose i did but the big battles i mean there are there are some you can have some great battles in it really there's nothing quite like it but the problem is that you need to get all these community mods that actually fix the game because the battles are so miserably awful otherwise and the ai is so clueless and very easy to manipulate this is the problem i have with a lot of games ai is once you figure out what they analyze of about what you're doing it's very easy to manipulate the ai with sort of feints and things and they always buy it like they know if they code some ai they need to put in some

occasionally it needs to not respond that way yeah like instead of just having case x we do this case y we do that it's like well then i just make out like i'm gonna do this you guys do this stupid thing and then bam i just own you and the same point every time it's stupid i think what pisses me off about this game most of all right is that it's taking up that space in the game industry. In that these guys are known for making this game. Imagine a football manager. Football manager of the Kings is a football manager. There are not very many other people making football manager games.

Oh, there are, but they're all awful. Go on. Right. Oh, there are, but they're all awful. Go on. Right. The problem is that no one else is making these types of games because Total War is such a big pioneer in the space. And the things they do, everyone thinks, oh, I have to do like them. Because they try and copy what's...

And they shouldn't be copying this game. I'm angry about it being not what I want it to be. I was in my temple i find it very frustrating when they don't make a game when they don't make it for me but think about how many how many games are there like and endless legend endless legend is the first game to come along that's anything like civ in ages and it's basically a fantasy setting because otherwise people will compare it to civ like give me a historical 4X game that isn't Civilization that's come out in the last five years.

Yeah. Well, there's obviously this, the Europa Universalis and the Crusade Kings and all these things. They are very different. Colonization, which is made by the same guys, but still. It's not in the Civ V engine. It's in the Civ IV engine.

Yeah, that's true. So that came out around Civ IV. And the original is way better than the remake, I think. The original is really good. I remember playing it. There's actually an original. I was going to play it on the live stream. There's actually a Windows open colonization, open source thing.

It's a great game. It is a great game. But not as good. OpenCD. Man, I could play that. Yeah, we should play that i love that game we should yeah um period have you played factorio no sir oh man i think you might like it maybe it looks very micromanaging me and sips we have played 15 hours of factorio together yeah i saw the the every time i look on steam friends you guys factorio in it up and i'm like wow that must be good and then i watched a video of it i was like

i ain't got time we're finished now we did it we finished the game we finished it well done in 15 hours it was really satisfying it was really satisfying so much so that actually i've been playing it in my spare time as well because wow why not you know sometimes you just need to go back and make it better and i mean there was lots of room for improvement after 15 hours a lot of things i mean there was it i think if we play it again i think we should not have the drone network though i feel like the game loses its i don't know there's purity it's're right. It's like in OpenTTD when you get planes. It's just like, fuck it, I don't care anymore. I don't care about my network.

I don't, you know, just shove a million planes in there, move them from the farthest places and make the money and I'm done with this game sort of thing. You're right. We should ban drones if we play it again. But I think we should wait until there's some big community mods or big updates to the game. Because I think it will continue to be updated and added to hopefully yeah you know you know what my favorite bit about open ttd is when you've built a little station like i always

spend the money in building the bigger stations like in the middle of as close as i can to the middle of a city that's clearly going to grow. And then you play it for long enough and suddenly you've got this metropolis around your station and it's just trains. I love it. I love it. You should play it. You could encourage that, actually. You can encourage that by like building the roads,

like building roads for them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I like all that. Building like railway tracks over there. Building like bridges for them to expand to and stuff. I tend to sort of just base everything around one city when i play that game because i like that idea that you your your sort of links into the city are business are what are growing it sort of thing so like i'll always have a big

station and then lots of transfers that get people to the city and out this is what i'm talking about with getting into the rp though because then you can think about, hey, look, I'm a local businessman. You know, there's like billboards. Vote for Dave, 2016, regional councilman. That's right. I'm going to do stuff for you. I've got a little bit of money. I'm going to start a bus route. I'm going to work my way up.

I've got a wife. I've got 2.5 kids, and I drive a family sedan. Vote for me. There was a game in the early 90s called A-Train. A-Train. I remember that game. It was a bit like OpenTTD, but more on the cargo side, right? It was, yeah.

You had these little blocks that you had to shift around and stuff. That's right. You go pick up the blocks and move them to somewhere where they wanted triangles or something. Like you move things. It wasn't incredibly intuitive, though. It was a hard game to play. It was awful. But they still, it was fun.

It was fun because you built the city up. It was like that. So by supplying things to the city, you built up and you'd have these little warehouses of blocks. You'd move blocks. It was really cool. But they still make it. It's like a regular series in Japan, i think a train series oh it would be fucking japan and trains they love it so it's a series of train simulation games listen this a

train the original i click on that there it is right a train three was the one that we actually played that became known as a train in the west do West. Do you know how many A-Train games there have been? Let me list them to you, Sip. Are you ready? I'm ready. A-Train, A-Train 2, A-Train 3, MD A-Train, A-Train 4, A-Train 5, A-Train Z, A-Train 6, A-Train 2001, A-Train 21st Century, A-Train I, A-Train 7, A-Train EZ, A-Train HX, 8, DS, 9, 3D. 3D! I want to see it! Fuck! A-Train 3D?

That's too much A-Train for me. I've never heard of A-Train. But man, I could fucking play A-Train. I could A-Train. It was bad but it was also good. Do you know what though? If you have someone to hold your hand in these games, you can have such a good time. It really helped

that I was able to sort of get us like when we and tips play factorio i kind of because i played a little bit on my own so i kind of had figured out some of the stuff so we weren't like getting stuck right it was really nice to actually play a game with someone who knew what they were doing like me and doug played a board game the other night and neither of us really knew what we were doing. We'd figured it out by the end, but it took us about two hours of frustration before we really... Whereas if one of us had known how to play the game,

and could have, like, you know... It wasn't like a game where... But sometimes when one of you knows how to play, it's just a fucking stomp, OK? That obviously doesn't help. But, man, it's good if it's good to like bring along people to games that you love and share them with them because we've been doing that a bit lately the nice thing with factorio is that it's a bit of a puzzle game but it's something you do together

and like you know we we built a factory and we tried to make it somewhat efficient it wasn't at all we probably played the game wrong, according to people who play the game all the time, but it was really satisfying building our own thing the way that we thought it would work, you know, chopping and changing it when we needed to and making things a little bit more efficient if we needed to, or fixing problems that were there and stuff. But it's just nice working with somebody towards something right instead of having to be against somebody or you know just locked into some grind fest on your own you know where nobody can really help you and stuff like it was just it was really refreshing

actually it was a really nice experience and like i don't know ttd is a little bit like that too sometimes you know like you sort of, just the way that the game evolves as it goes on, you know, you're like, oh, you know, I need to use some of your track to like get across or something. And you know what I mean? There's always like these little sort of things that you do together when you're playing with people.

And it's nice. It's just fun. It's just a really good time. That's like when we did the Anno 1404, Lewis, and it was nice because you're not going... Working together that's the difference. I think you can do that on OpenTTD we can work on this, own the same

company and share the same trains and manage the same system. I think that we probably should because I think that that's how... You sounded very Swedish there. We should. This is like most of the games, the board games that I enjoy playing, kind of cooperative board games

where you work together towards the same goal rather than, you know, aim to knock the other people out. I think that building and stuff and creating and working together on certain games works way better. It wouldn't work on something like Civ, but that kind of feels like a different set up it would work in something like civ if you had a really brutal and competent ai to play against together you know where it was really a challenge you know and you couldn't you couldn't just sort of um pick up on ai patterns and work around them

sort of thing you know like it like like it was just a challenge sort of thing. I think if it was real time too, right, and there was this constant pressure to, you know, I think that's the thing. I think with turn-based, that doesn't lend so well to co-op. I think turn-based works well with versus, whereas I think in something like OpenTDD, I think we'll have a lot of satisfaction I think

the problem with open TDD as opposed to Factorio is that one of the nicest things about Factorio is that it had a very complex end goal which is build

the rocket and send it into space okay yeah that is something which open TDD and other sometimes other cult games sort of lack but Anno is a

similar thing like the one the end goal is is build a big cathedral which requires a whole shitload of stuff and i think that's what we did was it pflats we came to build like the monument and so yeah i mean it was super satisfying playing that car but it wouldn't have worked playing it versus i don't think it would have been really i quite like the idea that you're you're just trying to work together to build something rather than just try to fight each other.

And I say that having played lots of games like that. Creating yourself these goals and these milestones is so important, I think. And it gives you this real sense of closure. Because I'm kind of done with Binding of Isaac now. I'm like, okay, I've done what I set out to do, which was sort of finish the game unlock these items and you know I'll share it with other people and I'll I'll show them how much I enjoyed it and try and get them into it but in the same way like it's it's not like it doesn't matter you every

game you have to kind of get to some games I think are a bit problematic in in that you just play them forever because they don't have this end game closure but I think that variety is having played having had no internet and being able to play no Dota for a month it's opened my eyes to like other games that I'm missing out on

and so I'm not gonna come back to Dota in the same way you animal how could you abandon me you are an animal I think I will play it but I won't play it the way I've played it previously you mean you'll play it well? is that what you abandon me? You are an animal. I think I will play it, but I won't play it the way I've played it previously. You mean you'll play it well? Is that what you're saying?

I won't play it exclusively. He's going to get his game face back on, get back into the track pants and microwave meals. Get back in shape. He's just going to get right back into the zone the dota zone the the all push it to the limit yeah i'll run along and i'll be in a car ahead of you dangling some some some tangos or something from a stick just dangling the tangos you'll be running after them lifting logs yeah yeah working it out me and Pirian were talking about this before we started recording,

saying like general gaming habits, right? Like you pick up something, you binge on it for a bit, you really enjoy it, and then you get to the point where you're like, yeah, I'm done with this game. I may have finished it. I may not have finished it, but I'm happy enough with my experience from this game where I'm just ready to move on and play something else. Or, you know, sometimes you pick up a game three days before, you know, some huge release. Like I've done this before where I picked up a game and thought, fuck, I could really see myself playing a lot of this game.

But I started playing it three days before like a WoW expansion came out or something. And then it was like after three days boom like i'd never touch it again and it's not because i disliked it it's because it's the kind of gamer i am like i'm i'm pretty fickle in that sense where i'll pick up something play it for three or four days play it a lot and then just move on to something else because i've just it's satisfied my craving for for that you know like point and and click adventure game or building a city or just doing something. And then I'm like, yeah, I'm ready to move on. And then I'll move on to like a totally different genre or just pick up something that's new or whatever.

I like it, though. You know, I think the variety is great. Yeah. We're there for one. Like, you know, I think it's to do with memory, though. With everyone. I think it's to do with memory, though. I think if something isn't holding your attention,

like a book or something you're reading, you just will forget to pick it up. It will be there and you'll be like, I'll forget to pick it up. And then after a certain amount of time has passed, it will be too long to pick it up again. You think, well, okay, it's been two weeks since I last picked that book up. I can't remember where I was. Maybe I'll pick it up, but maybe not. And then you know it's it's like that with games I think well I'm guilty of this with with things like Skyrim and Fallout and um just stopping like one of the things I did on

Fallout 3 was I just stopped at a certain point I just didn't come back and I don't know why I just did and I obviously at some point I thought oh shit it's been too long and if I logged into that character i think oh fuck i don't know what i'm doing you know i don't want to go in like back into the game like not i guess what i'm worried about is that games have this difficulty curve right where they slowly ramp up and you know if you play them all in one go or regularly and you get through them that's how it's that's how it works that's how it's designed whereas if you take a two-week break like towards the end of the game like uh when you come back it's like oh i can't really remember what i'm doing i don't want to have to relearn skyrim and fallout are weird because they're open enough where you can sort of get caught up into almost insignificant stuff in the game.

Like I did this with Fallout 4 and to some extent I did this with Skyrim as well where I played it enough and I didn't actually complete the main storylines. And those are meant to be like the, you know, you do this, the huge arcing main storyline so that, you know, you complete the game if you like. But there's still a lot to do.

But I never did those because I was just too busy going off doing my own thing. And in a way, in my mind, I've finished those games because the things that I got up to and the things that I did that weren't the main storyline were enough for me. So, like, I did something really dumb. Like, I finally got a house in Skyrim. up to and the things that i did that weren't the main storyline were enough for me so like i did something really dumb like i finally got a house in skyrim and when i got the house i was like yeah fuck i you know i'm made i've got this huge mansion out here with like all of my junk and like all of the followers that i've picked up up until now and i'm done i don't feel like doing anything else in the game now like it always amazes me when you get people who still play that one game over and over again they play all the mods they replay it in different ways it's the same yeah it just blows my mind like i enjoyed well i could completely understand that

i'm just sort of like so fallout 3 was the thing that i did that with and people always said to me you know oh you know what about when you meet your dad and Liam Neeson and all this and I was like what are you talking about I never did any of that in Fallout 3 because I never got that far in the main storyline I'd obviously given up before that happened so when I went back and to Fallout 3 and played it with the mods and stuff I realized that I had done 97% of the fucking game I just hadn't done that 3% that was the main storyline thing that i didn't want to just you know like obviously couldn't be bothered to get around to fallout three was a funny one for me because i you know you get to you get to megaton whatever and you're

like yeah okay you know the main story is chasing in the footsteps of your dad and trying to find him or whatever and i completely just did not like i never went to like the dc sort of metro area i was just messing around like you know exploring finding stuff and then i happened upon the garage you know with and then underneath the garage there's like the the the part of the storyline the main storyline where like your dad in like that cryo chamber so i happened upon that and just skipped like everything leading up to that point like all of the storyline leading up to that point because i just randomly found this place and i started exploring it and there was a door that led into the vault underneath it you're like oh fuck this is kind of cool like what's this

doing here and then there's like a fucking cryo chamber with your dad in it or he's been like strapped into some VR thing or whatever. It's like, dad, what are you doing here? It's like, fuck, I don't know where I am with the story now. Like I've skipped. It feels like I've skipped like 50 percent of it because I've just found him down here. And then he just sort of like, OK, son, let's go fix the pumps. What? What am I doing?

It's so weird. Do you know what? I love that the fact that they've actually allowed you to do that. You know, I think that many times games will gate you and that will be permanently locked beyond a locked door that says, you, this door can never be opened or something like that. And then you'll come along with some fucking quest NPC and she'll be like, oh, let me just pick this lock. And then it opens and you go in there. It's like, oh, yeah. OK, so I was at this garage like outside the door to where my dad was the whole time.

You know, it's kind of. He was just in there. You could probably hear me fumbling around and swearing like at things falling down and stuff. But no, you're not allowed to go in. As long as you can get your head cannon like comfortable with that. That's OK. I think that's what it's about. It's about I like to make up these stories so you know i i like that that sliding doors kind of thing where those

those you know those missed opportunities just happened you know you're like like you know like like like we probably like who knows like period we may have met each other in life at some point like maybe when i was 10 and you were like 15 we were at disneyland you know and we were on the same ride or we like met you know know, we can't remember it. There's all sorts of these. I love those little moments where you see. Because I remember one of the particular ones I remember was that someone took a picture at Disneyland or whatever. And they found out that their future wife actually was in the background of that picture.

Wow. That's crazy. And so they were looking through their old family pictures and they realized that they had two pictures that were almost the same and they realized that they were in each other's pictures as kids when that shit happens you have that moment where you're and i mean nothing to that extent has happened to me but i've had moments where i've thought like fuck are people watching me like am, am I living like the Truman Show here or something? Like, what the hell is going on? Because like sometimes something happens and you're like, what the fuck?

Like, hang on a second. Maybe like, you know, maybe all along, like, you know, the government's just been like watching my every move. I'm like an experiment or something because that's just too crazy to have actually happened. Do you ever get that? No? or something because that's just too crazy to have actually happened do you ever get that no i've never had those moments in my life that were that crazy that i thought i was jesus and that the whole universe revolved around me or anything like that i think people well i didn't think i was jesus

but i thought hang on a second like this is just a little bit too convenient like maybe you know maybe i'm i'm fucking like the butt of some intergalactic joke or something, you know. Like maybe like I live in this like jail thing that aliens set up and they're all laughing at me because like I just fucking masturbate too much maybe. I reckon they were watching you through your iPad camera. Yeah, yeah. Didn't we talk about simulation theory last time? I thought we talked about this last time on the podcast maybe oh my god maybe this will be the new wolfenstein

maybe it got deleted from my memory yeah do you remember wolfenstein guys fuck has anyone played the latest wolfenstein game i bought it on the steam sale it was like two or three years ago for sure it was like four pounds and it was because I didn't buy very much on the

Steam sale at Christmas but it was that one day when it was like 80% off and Terps had told me that it was good because he was sick and he

played it when he was sick and so I thought if I ever get sick I'll play Wolfenstein and so yeah but my god it's like 40 it's like 50 quid

for the new order and the old blood on Steam but my god it's like 40 it's like 50 quid for the new order and the old blood on Steve but I bought it for like five nice so yeah I suggest that's an interesting thing I suggest like just keep in the back of your mind a game that you you you think is worth going to be worth playing and then have it installed in your computer in case of emergency I did that with Mad Max the Mad Max game oh yeah I was just like i i bought it for like three pounds or something it was in sale and i was like i don't know is this game gonna be good maybe i'll try it i liked fury road or whatever so i'll give it a try and it was like pretty good but i don't know if it was good because i only paid three pounds for it. Because maybe full price, I would have been disappointed.

Have you seen the state of the Steam store at the moment? Oh, it's a fucking disaster area. Let me list you the shit that's available to me. All right, The Division. So that's a big title. And then Chronix Action Champion, which is an awful title for a game I'm never going to play. Arma 2, which has been out for fucking ever. The Vive, which I've already pre-ordered.

Soccer Manager 2015, free to play. That's going to be garbage. Hitman Absolution, very old, wasn't very well received. Steam Link, don't care. Defcon, again, very old game, already got it. Steam Controller, not interested. Arena Cyber Evolution, don't care, free to play. Way of the Samurai 3, don't care. Club Manager 2015 revolution don't care uh free to play where the samurai 3 don't care club manager 2015 don't care battleborn don't really want to play that red crucible

firestorm free to play don't care and then pre-orders for the banner saga 2 and then i look through the other titles that are available and it's just there's just nothing until i get down to a certain title called one second let me just get the full title because i want to get i want to get this right it's called list are you looking at right now because i'm looking at top sellers right now right i was looking at all new releases okay all new okay well suggested so i want you to type in for me sips i want you to type in candice c--A-N-D-I-C-E, and look at the game, Candice DeBebe's Incredibly Trick Lifestyle. That's the name of the game.

Candice DeBebe's Incredibly Trick Lifestyle. This has mostly positive reviews. I don't know how. It's had 15 reviews, mostly positive. It was released on the 22nd of March, which was two days ago two days ago it is a adventure indie rpg may maze it actually uses the tag meme yeah yeah yeah so i don't know is candy's the baby a thing like no no it's just a piece of shit game that someone's made. It's like a gag, right? So they've made this gag game.

It's, I mean, just looking at it makes me want to uninstall all the other games I've ever purchased and just go live in a house in the middle of nowhere. But these games thrive off of YouTubers though, right? though right like because you know that a you know a game like this will be picked up by a popular youtuber and they're gonna load it up and be like what the hell like this is crazy and stuff and and people will watch it and stuff and the game will sell off the back of that because everybody will want to recreate that hilarious experience for themselves and is how much is it 339 so it's not yeah it's not 10p like bad rats was because bad rats is like one of the most sold games on steam but it's because it was 10p so like people would just buy it for a joke present to give to their friends and stuff somebody boy yeah it's like those movies though that are so bad that they're the most popular. Sometimes it's like the producers,

people fight over having the worst movie, the worst game on Steam. People proactively try to make the worst game, the worst movie. Candy's the baby's incredibly trick lifestyle. Have you read the About This Game? Yeah. Oh, read it.

What does it say? Read it out loud. All right. So here it is. Let me just go back to it all right i'm candy's in it that's me up in the photo the biggest one as i am well important and this is an action rpg all about the incredibly trick lifestyle and me and my mates so basically i was going to get myself a new fake tan one day when an evil singing sensation named crystal turns up and starts causing havoc in it naturally i wasn't having that and tried to stop her sadly i failed and she stole my mate's tan and business and so on i kind of didn't want to read it just fucking a unity edge in piece of shit that's been thrown together in about five seconds flat

you guys you guys are slamming this i just bought it and did you actually? I did, yeah. Because I hate myself and I want to die. So, no, I didn't. I didn't just buy it. But I don't know. Like, how did this get mostly positive 15 reviews? Because they got their mainstream over it. It's obvious. Nobody else is going to ever buy it.

No one's saying, oh, this is a hilarious, lol, this game's so bad, it's good. It ain't. There's a review saying, oh, this is hilarious. Lol, this game's so bad. It's good. It ain't. There's a review here that says, just simply don't. Full stop. I like that. After 6.4 hours as well,

this guy actually probably finished the game. He finished the game. Yeah. Fair play to him. Well done, sir. Yeah. I've got a thing here.

Thea, The Awakening. Recommended by Andre D. Oh, yeah. dancer oh i've got a thing here thea the awakening recommended by andre d oh yeah he's one of our dota friends yeah yeah he's written a fucking like two-page review of this game yeah he does that quite a bit yeah what candy's the baby's he's played it and he likes it it's got very positive reviews over 706 reviews that's you know know what you know what i find interesting i like the whole queue thing that steam does and it's funny sometimes like i'll explore my queue for you guys today all right you ready for this yeah i have 11 remaining okay so smite is my first one i already fuck yeah i played it ridiculous uhiculous. Second, Total War Warhammer, which I will never play. But fair enough. Pre-order.

So that's a pre-order. Homeworld Remastered Collection. I vaguely remember playing Homeworld back in the day. How old is Homeworld? It's pretty old. But this is the remastered collection anyway. Next up, Dark Souls 3. I'm not a fan of Dark Souls.

I've tried to play dark souls in the past and i've just i didn't find it like very enjoyable i can see the appeal though i i get the hype and stuff listen dark souls we could just talk about very sick 10 seconds about dark souls is that when i've played it you you do want to smash your controller on the on the ground and you do you throw the controller because it's so frustrating yeah bullshit but when you pull off some insane fucking skill combo you feel like the most your most biggest badass in the world it's really really weird yeah it goes from i i get that yeah i just don't want to experience it like i don't want to go through the negative to

get to the positive but it's like playing the appeal it's like one of those mario maker games right where you die 50 times but eventually you you come you come through like the perfect run you slowly learn and then you become a master that's what it's like that's dark souls all right next up path of exile which is you know that like better diablo according to people i've been meaning to try it but i haven't diablo for nerds it's cool it's in my my queue cs go i've never played it it's apparently pretty good i mean i used to play a lot of counter-strike back in the day but i haven't played it like recently and i certainly haven't played cs go um what's next next up uh polaris sector which is a simulation strategy forex space grand strategy game i've never heard of it before

but there you go oh it's just newly released 50 yeah it came out two days ago same as with uh candice the baby um so those two are neck and neck now. The final four, Way of the Samurai 3, which I think Pirion mentioned possibly in the new releases. I did, yeah. Sheltered, which kind of looks a bit like This War of Mine. Remember that? Yeah, yeah.

This War of Mine was awful. I hated it. Oh, I liked it. I thought it was good. Hyperdimension Neptunia Action Unleashed. I mean, Steam, literally, I've never played an anime game once in my life. And this one is quite clearly an anime game. I don't know why you're recommending this to me. Unless maybe you think I need to try something new or whatever. You know what, Sips? I'm in the same boat somebody bought me hatofu boyfriend as a joke i never installed it and since that point every time i go to my thing it's all how about some fucking

anime period i'm like no like i want to take don't show me this shit ever again if a game don't show me that i don't know i want to say here's a tag i don't ever want to see anime if the tag anime appears banish it from steam for me my personal view it's invisible battle fleet gothic armada which isn't even out yet so it's a pre-order thing i guess and finally arma 3 okay which i've never played that was my cue i don't know why i mean there's better games on here to recommend to me that i might buy but like none of those i would have bought i don't think except for what do you think about like the curators and stuff do you follow any of like the the curators the people who like you know yeah i do and it's just a lazy way of

because i i still read pc gamer and i still read uh rock paper shotgun as well yeah and it's just a lazy way of getting almost like a recommendation or a review out of them you know if i don't have time to read it or i've fallen a bit behind on reading it or whatever. I find it kind of useful, but at the same time, it's such a weird thing, you know? Like nowadays there's so many games coming out, like more than there ever has been before, right? Like there's such a huge amount of choice of games to buy. There's all these early access games coming out,

indie games coming out. There's all sorts of shit to try. And because we do what we do, we tend to, you know, my Steam library is fucking huge. Like I have so many fucking games that I've never even installed, you know, like let alone even thought about playing sort of thing. And it's weird. I feel like I'd love to go back to the days where i was genuinely excited about a game coming out and reading about it and you know months later it finally came out and i would play it and you know experience it enjoy it and then sort of move on to the next thing instead of just

being inundated with thousands of games and having all these like mini experiences but never sticking to anything like it's yeah it's hard to explain it's really weird but i think it's weird because a game will come along that i become obsessed with like say dota and play constantly uh xcom to finish that like i've never finished games and i could not wait to finish i just wanted to see what happened like i was really caught up in the the story and the my guys and trying to finish the game and see all the monsters and bosses and everything and get all the levels i i really really was a really really into it and i'm hesitant to start a new one because i know they're going to bring out the expansion so i'm like when the expansion comes out i'm going to start again do the whole thing again

and stuff like that yeah there's a lot of mods for x-com too though like i like i watch a guy play it he's just done a playthrough on legend he's completed the game it's very enjoyable to watch his name is christopher odd if you if you want to watch it as well and he's going to start season two soon uh which is just going to be another playthrough but he's got a couple of mods this time so like he's got he's got like the uh like the blade mod so that your rangers never miss with their swords and it just makes swords a bit better

because they're kind of shit. And just things like that. So just a couple of little things to just make the second playthrough a little bit different. And I think that's a cool thing. XCOM 2 is really great, isn't it? Yeah.

So let me give you my queue because I haven't looked at it in a very long time. Okay. But I've got 12 titles on it. Factorio is on there. Yeah. Which I know you guys are recommending. The Division is on there,

which I know we were talking about maybe playing. Stardew Valley, which I kind of want to get into, but at the same time, I just really don't fancy just having to lug potatoes around in a barn. Like that's too close to my real life anyway. For some reason,

fucking Hyperdimension Neptunia is on this shit. I did not fucking add this. I'm going to click not interested. That is out of my list now. It's a fucking conspiracy, okay? I bet you they've paid money to appear in everybody's fucking queue for like a week or something and you'll never see it again because like that what the fuck i don't own a single game yep that is any way related to that game and it's like yeah

it's it's utterly bizarre i i arc survival evolved but again, I just bought it as well because I hate myself. So I bought an anime game. For some reason, Night Online, like with a K, Night Online. I think that we have had a great podcast. I'm going to just bookend this now. Wait, we're not done with Periods Q. we don't start rambling off about it. We're not done with Periods Q.

I don't want to hear about what Periods Q is. You check out games. I don't want to promote these games that are probably shit and don't deserve even us mentioning. Yeah. You check out some games. Do you know what?

I actually care a lot more about the people who've actually reviewed stuff. So based on Andre's fucking essay about that game i'm gonna pick that one up and have a go and then which one hyper dimension xu or whatever okay listen before we bookend we have a couple of questions we'll bat through them quick okay all right real quick all right quick fire round first one is from a man or a woman named jet uh top game so far for this year, quickly. XCOM.

Oh, yeah, XCOM 2 is so good. Yeah, me too, XCOM 2. XCOM 2, in my opinion, is a masterpiece. Like, it's a fucking great game. And if it doesn't win Game of the Year for 2016, which it probably won't, but I think it should because it's fucking great. It's brilliant. It's really, really brilliant.

Next. Van Lutnant asks, this is a question for all of us again uh what are your opinions on a trip to new zealand i get asked this all the time for some reason like too far no thanks yeah me too too far i've got family and stuff i'm not interested in sitting on a plane for like 24 hours or however long it takes to get there. I am desperate to move to New Zealand and live there forever for the rest of my life. I think that when I get sick of this, that's where I'm going.

Cool. I'm going to be there. I'm going to become a hobbit. Completely out of left field on that one. Like two to one. Two people who just don't want to go because it's an inconvenience. I was hoping to get me and Duncan

were hoping to go to New Zealand this january but we ended up not doing it because of various things so maybe next january next winter we want to go there um i mean don't get me wrong i would like to visit maybe do a convention or something but it's so far and i'm so lazy yeah that's you're happy where you are yeah Yeah. All right. Next, NP Manga Cat asks, this is a bit of a, well, it's probably going to be a quick one, but what is your opinion on having a relationship at a younger age, 10 to 15? Just curious. What do you think about that? You know, first time you ever kissed somebody, was it within that age range 10 to 15 the thing is you can't have a meaningful relationship between the age of 10 and 15 because you don't have a fucking clue about anything that life has in store for you or anything right like no um so when you're even from 16 to 30 you still don't really have a clue so that's true yeah but most relationships don't you know kind of really bed down to them until their mid-20s more power to you though if you enter a relationship between

the ages 10 and 15 and you stay with that person until the day you die as long as you are between 10 and 15 as long as you're happy that's cool but I think between the age of 10 and 15, I think you should just go out and have fun and do shit and not worry about relationships. Just fucking drink Mountain Dew, eat Doritos, play video games. Play lots of colonization. Be a filthy basement dweller. Whatever the kids are doing these days, playing colonization or whatever. Listen to music, go to the disco, I don't know.

Do a roller skate with your friends. Anyway. Next one is from this last one. The Vault 13 legend asks, well, first compliments, love the Doritos podcast, bravo lads. That's nice, thank you. And asks, what is the worst job you guys have had and why? Can you guys think of any jobs that you've

had off the top of your head that were terrible all of them uh yeah i didn't mind my jobs but i had a paper route when i was really young and i was forced to do it to like teach me the value of work and money and stuff like that i fucking hated it and i used to dump all of the newspapers in a forest by my house um and then go to my friend's house and play Nintendo instead. Nice. Oh, my God. What a fucking guy. Well, yeah, but I come from a place where it's like minus 40 for six months of the year.

And fucking hand delivering newspapers was the worst. That is the worst time of my life, I think. That is the worst time of my life, I think. The worst time of my life is being forced to stand out on a sports field in primary school with shorts on in the middle of fucking winter and having to run around in the absolute freezing ass cold with shorts on. Fuck you. Fuck you for making me do that. Whoever, Mrs. Burge or whatever your name was.

Yeah, where are you now, Mrs. Burge? That's right was yeah, where are you now Mrs. Burge, that's right I'm on a podcast and where are you probably just like retired and having a nice time or whatever but still the shorts you fucking miss, can't believe it got anything else, P-Facts

worst job, bad jobs honestly I've never had a job I enjoyed apart from this one so I hated all. Honestly, I've never had a job I enjoyed apart from this one. So I hated all of them. I hated working. All of them. I hated working for some arsehole. And pretty much every job I had, every single manager I ever had was just an arsehole.

There's just something about being a manager that attracts arseholes. You're not my manager. You're not the boss of me. Cool. Little do you know. Go on. Go on then. Fire me, Lewis. I'll walk out of this podcast right now yeah sorry that's fair enough like i'm saying this is literally you know in terms of jobs i've had i've worked in a warehouse one summer just it was a pharmaceuticals warehouse so the truck the truck warehouse is pretty good though i worked in a warehouse I enjoyed it. It was awful it was two people it was me and one other guy

and he was he was at least at least mentally backwards possibly. And they had a massive over delivery of lube. Oh yeah and me and this guy didn't know what to do with it. We just had so much lube. Oh, man, the lube. So anyway, on that bombshell, I suggest we say goodbye. Thank you for listening to this podcast. It's been about the same length as last time, surprisingly. The time just went by a lot quicker this time. Thank you.

Let us know if you enjoy it, and we'll carry on doing it. Hopefully we enjoy it. We're going to have to figure out a way to um monetize this in some way uh but we'll worry about that in future podcasts let us know what you think we should do yeah lewis wants to go to new zealand so we have to somehow get some money i do eventually want to ship him off yeah to go there so yeah we'll need some funds the downside of him going to new zealand is that once he does that we probably won't be able to do this podcast anymore so you have to weigh it up and no more dota so yeah so donate if you don't like the podcast and don't donate if you want to see it continue in a weird way right yeah okay that sounds good see you next time everybody bye