Triforce! - Triforce! #220: Sips vs Adele

Episode Date: May 18, 2022

Triforce! Episode 220! Lewis is ready to rise up for Van Gogh, Sips doubles down on his dislike of Adele but luckily Pyrion knows a singer that feels the same! Support your favourite podcast on Patreon: https://bit.ly/2SMnzk6 Music courtesy of Epidemic Sound. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

pickaxe FanDuel Casino's exclusive live dealer studio has your chance at the number one feeling winning which beats even the 27th best feeling saying I do who wants this last parachute? I do

enjoy the number one feeling winning in an exciting live dealer studio exclusively on FanDuel Casino where winning is undefeated. 19 plus and physically located in Ontario. Gambling problem? Call 1-866-531-2600 or visit connectsontario.ca.

Please play responsibly. Manage expenses with the new TD Low Rate Visa Card. With an 8.99% promotional interest rate for the first six months, the new TD Low Rate Visa Card can help find some balance. Learn more at td.com slash low rate card. Conditions apply. Limited time offer. Hello, everyone, and welcome back to the Triforce podcast. Welcome back. Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen. We're here.

Welcome indeed. Pirion, how are you? I'm fine. Do you suppose if you kept a lot of cattle, you could call it a prodcast? A prodcast. You'd have to, well, you can keep cattle without having a prod, though, right? Like, you don't necessarily need a prod, so... You'd be mad to try.

You would be mad to try. Yeah, I know, but... How do you move them around? You need a prod, right? Well, I mean, you could probably train them, right? Like, over time. It would be difficult, but... I feel like maybe cattle prods are even banned now, dude.

Nah, they're still around. They seem like a pretty dangerous, like, pretty cruel thing, man. Let's have a look. Cattle prods are even banned now, dude. Nah, they're still around. They seem like a pretty dangerous, like pretty cruel thing, man. Let's have a look. Cattle prod. Okay. Oh, gosh. Cattle prod. An electric cattle prod, also called a stock prod or a hot stick.

A hot stick. Is a handheld device commonly used to make cattle move. Right. Or does it make them move or does it make them move? Very good. Move. The use of the electric cattle prod has been debated by many people. Organizations such as PETA contend that the use of cattle prods is as much mentally harmful as PETA.

Is it PETA or PETA? I say PETA because I'm British, but if you're American, you might say PETA. PETA. Oh. Yeah, but you'd say PETeter right you wouldn't say petter i would say peter most farmers i would say better and that the short shock is minutely felt and soon forgot well do you know what we they should be fine with them being tased then you know i'm sure that that that time you were tased was quickly forgot it's not. It's not a big debilitating tase, though, right?

It's kind of like, it's more like a little jolt. Yeah. Like, when you're getting tased, you're incapacitated for a time, right? I mean, I think there's a lot of, there's a voltage difference or an amperage difference or whatever. Yeah. But also the things, like the little needle clamp things that stick into you and continually. Yeah. They don't do that to cattle i think they just i think it's like a little spark like a like almost like just a little like a static shock right these are some big strong animals you know

yeah but they don't know what's happening to them though right but i doubt the farmer is gonna try to do something that's gonna harm his product that would be like you know if your fucking machinery is broken down at the old box factory you decide to go smash it with a sledgehammer to teach you the lesson i don't think you would i'm not saying i'm not saying i'm i'm pro or con electric cattle prod i'm just saying i can't imagine that they would be that bad because otherwise why would you use them i'm sure some of it are really bad. I guess it did develop into the taser. I saw a lot of tasers being used at the old

Four Hours at the Capitol documentary. I watched it recently. It came on Netflix. Have you seen that? Oh, my God. It was crazy to see these people who were very dumb, very sheepish. They were sheep, basically,

running through into the capital getting tased um that's what we should so it was fine to use the tasers on them i guess but they were like there was just just i guess the people at the capital think it's some sort of museum or at least they did you know no i i think they they genuinely thought that they were going to overthrow what they saw as a corrupt election. No, no, no. The people protecting the Capitol. The general sort of police malaise.

You know, the laziness that's set in the security teams. Well, who the hell is going to rush the, you know. It would be like storming the House of Commons. It's just not a thing that you would imagine. And even when there's these gigantic, terrifying waves of people protesting, And even when there's these gigantic, terrifying waves of people protesting, it feels like a very thin line of police is often... Yeah, I mean, you're not putting your best guys on that duty, are you? Because, you know, how often are you going to run into trouble, really? And oh my God, they definitely did turn up in force later on.

But I mean, like, and I guess it was all a very sudden thing that happened. Well, you think, though, the whole thing is a really thin line. Like, I don't know if you've ever had this before, but I went out to, well, to the garage the other night. You know, like, I have to leave my house to go to my garage. But it was late. It was, like, 10 o'clock at night or whatever. I stepped outside, and it was just, like, super, super quiet. It was one of those, like like really still nights, you know.

And the area that I live in is like fairly built up. And I just thought like, it's crazy, right? Like everybody's just at home chilling right now. It could be so different, right? Like people could just be out there doing like fucking God knows what. But they don't. Like they're just like probably at home watching TV, just like having a snack or whatever, getting ready to go to bed. And it just makes me think sometimes how lucky we are.

But also how – I don't know the word, but it just feels like one little thing could tip the balance at any time. That's the famous saying, isn't it? every civilization or society is only three meals away from revolution yeah there's no motivation for people to go i suppose not yeah i guess we're just all like really you know uh pacified at this point with like you know all of our our stories and our netflix and and other people do delivered food to our house and stuff yeah i don't even think it's like modern living i think it's just that human nature is to avoid conflict yeah to chill and as long as you've got enough to survive or this is the thing it's not even on an individual level you need a lot of people to be fucking hacked off or furious for

some reason yeah to have any kind of big thing i mean if you look at it like i've been to the house of commons and there's like two police there on the main door with mp5s or whatever man did you do a huge flex while you were there and just watch porn on your phone while you were like sitting there or no well no because i'm not a tory m, so I wouldn't do that. Nice. So yeah, I saw that and I thought, when you see that, you think, if there was a genuine threat, the threat that they're looking at and that they're worried about is the lone nutter or a couple of terrorists, right?

That's what they're protected for. No system of government is really set up to defend against 10,000 people. Because any revolution, if you like, if you want to call it that, whether you're pro or con it, you could still call it a revolution, any kind of insurrectionist act. The fact is, government and the function of it hinges on the fact that most people are not going to be doing that ever. As long as you can avoid, and this is true whether you are a democratically elected leader or an absolute despot nutter, it's very hard to motivate people because it's

scary. Yes, yeah. Even if it's 10 guys with guns versus 1,000 people without guns, are you willing to charge them and very, very likely die if you're near the front? Most people are going to go, no. They're going to throw some rocks and go, we're not happy, and then go home. But it was so interesting watching this four hours at the Capitol because all these protesters were just, I mean, obviously it was partly led

by these group of proud boys who were kind of, they're very stupid, but also big men, obviously almost entirely unarmed or just armed with things that they've picked up locally you know maybe they don't need actual arms all they need is definitely did come in a and fucking b you know with guns loaded safety off you know ready to like mill anybody so fascinating to watch like once they some of them get into the into the capitol building they're like it's so it's, suddenly they're in this museum, right?

And it's like, you know that they have a certain aura about them, these sort of places, right? It's kind of almost like a holiness, right? And some of the most effective security guards were actually the ones who were like, oh, come on, don't break that.

Jeremy, look, don't do that. Or the ones who were just actually standing still. And so if the security guard was like one of those guys at the Buckingham Palace, you know, the guys who stand stock still and just blocked away, like they would often be fine, right? Weirdly, like the protesters wouldn't punch them or attack them or like try and try and push them out the way if they just stood in a force whereas if the if the if the cops looked like they were scared or they were backing off or like they were raising weapons or

they were like doing engaging like in a different way then very quickly like people would just be like they're not they're not they're not protecting it we can we can reclaim the house. And they would just sort of barge their way through or charge their way through. And certainly, like, a lot of the time, it was just guys saying, just unarmed guys, big guys striding at a security guard. It's so scary. Him not wanting to shoot or attack that guy,

that guy not really being armed or even wanting to harm the security guard right but but like just through his sheer force of like aggression like physical like just just posturing like scarily it caused this kind of strange and so so obviously yeah it was it was a it's a very strange documentary it's full of um a very strange event yeah the whole thing is bizarre right like like you know there was almost like a certainly a battle for battle in certain areas you know where these guys are scrapping like hand-to-hand writing you know um for for hours um and those different different kinds of of rioters gravitated towards different sort of areas.

And therefore you had areas where the rioters were more, I'm not going to say chill, but less likely to be violent. And then the more violent ones were all sort of grouped up and let's get them! Sort of those guys stuck together. So you had pockets of absolute nutters and pockets of people who were just sort of caught up in it. Absolutely.

There were people who were there with their mates with the with a with a with a goal and that was to like just call just to be fighting you know to be angry to like like the people who turn up to a metal concert to go in the mosh pit you know those were the kinds of people who were who were there and then there were also people there who were just trump supporters just wanted to be part of it there were also people who kind of wanted had an agenda and wanted to to make a like the the moose guy or whatever the shaman you know he was there to be seen and take pictures of him you know yes he's constantly trying to he's got like a series of sort of people with him who he's hoping will take pictures of him and film him and he's constantly gravitating towards the

cameras and and standing on things and hoping to get it's really interesting other people are kind of i mean that's that's exactly what i tell all my fans when they saw those pictures of me there and i said you know i'm trying to insert myself into history just like forrest gump did in the movie you know what i mean like i want to look back and i want to have a montage of all those you know historical events i was present at or whatever you know what i mean I want to look back and I want to have a montage of all those, you know, historical events I was present at or whatever. You know what I mean? You want to be there. You want historians to go through the photos of the era.

I wasn't there supporting it. God, no. I was there just to be seen. Yeah, exactly. You know, like, you know, I got, Nixon gave me a Dr. Pepper. I can't help it. In a hundred years time, there will be a conspiracy theory. Who is this strange middle-aged man who is at all of these major historical events just waving to the camera?

Every sighting, he's wearing shorts for some reason as well. In January. I mean, these events have all taken place years and years apart. And this man has the same pair of shorts every time what's going on what is going on yeah it could be the start of a new conspiracy that's right it doesn't make i mean the the the documentary doesn't really make it's not great in terms of trying to understand the motivations but it certainly does provide such an interesting series of some unseen um documentary stuff footage because i i guess it's

like there was nowadays there's so much that comes out around an event that sometimes you don't really get a cogent kind of like viewpoint of what happened or even like get to see all the good bits in one uh 88 minute long sort of film but oh man it man, it's just so interesting just seeing how it sort of, because they obviously had, it was like an onion, right? The Capitol. It had kind of like all these layers of security. And as one would fall, you know,

they'd fall back to the next one type situation. But it started to get to the point where they were like unsure where their layers of security actually were, you know, because they had never had to think, oh crap, what is, what's the next thing we have to fall back to um yeah yeah because it's different when it actually happens right like you can be as ready as you can be sort of thing but when when when shit's going down it's it's really different it's almost like it's almost

like such an unbelievable thing though that people just wouldn't think it would be possible. Well, yeah. I mean, look at 9-11. You know, like big buildings full of people. You know, they had all of the documentation that they needed for emergencies and how to deal with stuff and whatever. But imagine your job was to go to to the capital and say look imagine what would happen if 10 000 protesters came and you stormed the capital everyone would fucking laugh you your face out there they would not take you seriously at all they wouldn't respect you at all

they wouldn't implement any of your planning at all they wouldn't they wouldn't put any funding down to to to to to to provide any i mean all very consistent with the rest of my life really um i feel like no but like that you'd be you'd be accused of being some doomsday guy or some conspiracy theory guy jumping for planning this this future of it but i guess i guess it it does feel like it's it's a low chance you gotta be that one guy on reddit though who comes up with this crazy idea and then just keep saying it keep saying it keep saying idea and then just keeps saying it, keeps saying it, keeps saying it. And then eventually, somehow, by some miracle, it either happens or part of it happens. And then he gets that five minutes where he's like, I've been saying this all along.

You know, like, there's people like that out there, isn't there? Who just, like, come up with some. It's so true. There's always someone who'll say they predicted it, like the people who predict absolutely everything yeah and then you know they the 365 predictions when they get one of them right they're suddenly you know on the news like a horoscope dave fuckface who correctly predicted this event you know thinks this about this and obviously he's got his other complete bullshit yeah um but but i guess like you know this is you can never plan for these things but i think i even like donald trump i'm sure

never thought that the capital riots would take place the way because i think he was so used to spouting these rhetoric you know yeah and like just sort of saying things i feel like you can apply that to every aspect of of donald trump though right like i don't think he ever even expected to win like i like it just the whole thing was just so absurd right like i think he just thought oh well it is it is the strangest thing it really the whole way it's all panned out the whole thing him running and winning and then everything that's happened since and then they're just this like this this dormant part of society that just was

enabled by him as well which is is weird right because like pre there they've been around but just never so um in the front of everything right you? Yeah, it's amazing. It's wild now. There are people in Congress now who literally could be one of the people that was at that... You know, they're that nutty. They believe in everything, all these conspiracies.

There's so much more awareness around them now, I think. It's scary. They've probably been there all along. It's so weird, the irrational... I mean, I feel like this this is in a country, though, where we also just accept bullshit. Like a lot of the religion that goes into the politics. A lot of people are very much believing in the bullshit of religion.

It means they can also accept the bullshit of everyone else. It's so clear to us that it's bogus. But at the same time, on the other side of the world, also accept the bullshit of everyone else you know it's so clear to us that it's bogus but at the same time on the other side of the world we're fucking upgrading the large hadron collider and you know fucking doing like things that are very these look i looked at the upgrades to the large hadron collider it's so complicated um the stuff the stuff and so pinpoint precise and such such incredible technology you know getting free like but that's just even the idea of like taking this like three mile long or half a mile long circle of

tube tube that has to be so precisely yeah you know it is you're preaching to the choir here i've played like hundreds hours of satisfactory i pretty much know what I'm doing, so. You know what, it kind of makes me think that, I've been playing a lot of Civ VI lately, and I feel like if you could divide things up, it would be like, one nation is going for the science victory, and they're pouring everything into the app, and the other one is just having open revolts and revolutions and, like, is, you know, we've got this fucking war going on as well, It's all kicking off. But then there's one bunch of people just quietly trying to figure out

what's inside a particle and crack fusion power. And I just think, surely one of these things is obviously beneficial to everybody and one is insane. And we should focus more on the thing that might actually help and save us

and make lives better for everybody rather than being complete cunts all the time but that's not the way things are i think it turns out that people and getting people getting groups together and dealing with this shared history of idiocy that we've got hundreds of years of that is still massively problematic it turns out that's actually harder than fucking finding the higgs boson or whatever i mean like like the job of of like trying to bring people get them to actually fucking not hate each other or like i don't know be awful it's impossible yeah sometimes it feels like we're at tier two and we're trying to unlock tier nine right and it's just like what are you going to do with with all that forbidden knowledge

like there's which tier specifically well no well we're making like some people like like well it's a little bit like how in the expanse i really like the expanse universe because it's futuristic right people we're on mars and we're you know building spaceships and stuff and yet everyone and all human factions are still bickering away yeah with each other you know they can't there's always someone there's it's politics right so it's one person being mistreated and knowing they're mistreated and then being dicks about the fact that they're being mistreated you know and having this often let's face it's the working man you know like those guys the belters they're just treating like shit they're they're out there working hard they're just trying to put food on the table yeah or like you know space space ice cream fancy united nations of

earth playboys in their big mega mansions you know plotting and scheming chuffing on all the air and water they want and jeffing all over the place i mean come on exactly yeah so i i love that because i guess like i want my so i like my sci-fi classically as all of us this is a star trek kind of the idea that everyone in the future is somehow better and it's smarter and bolder i felt like star trek there was no real um it was it was it was more like if if you were human and you worked on the starship that's all you really saw but everybody seemed like pretty comfortable they seemed enlightened didn't yeah they all seem pretty smart you know they all seem like oh we've got rid of money we got rid of poverty yeah they all seem to be well fed from their um holodeck um we got rid of racism here's

my question right uh this utopian society that he created, and long-time listeners, I do apologize because I'm almost certain we've spoken about Star Trek's lack of money before, but it is interesting because people see that Star Trekian utopia as the inevitable goal of humanity. We are united. We are one planet.

We are all getting along. We can replicate anything we need. We've got infinite energy. We are united. We're one planet. We are all getting along. We can replicate anything we need. We've got infinite energy. Money is gone. You don't have to worry about that anymore. Everybody's taken care of. And I don't know where we get all these resources from, but I guess space. We went out and mined stuff. We've got all kinds of mining stuff in space, whatever. Sure. Loads of stuff in space. Yeah, tons of space. So I guess they've done that. The idea that there would never be a group of people who would say,

I hate the fact that Vulcans live on Earth. You know, we should get rid of them. You absolutely would have those people. And there would have to be some kind of democracy. Otherwise, the Star Trek universe must be a totalitarian dictatorship. Well, that is the Star Trek universe, though, right? The final frontier is racism, basically. They can't get past it.

Like, everything else, they're enlightened in every other way, except they just will not tolerate aliens. Like, they hate... Well, but in Next Gen, that's not the case. Because in Next Gen, there are aliens on the ship. They have a Klingon as their security officer, right? Yeah, I know, but I mean, come on, everybody's got, like, oh, yeah, my mailman's a Klingon, you know?

Like, it's that old one, right? Some of my best friends are Klingons. My best friend, I know plenty of Klingons, you know? No one is, say, calling Worf, like, pasty-haired behind his back, though, are they? No, but, in the original series, Bones McCoy is extremely racist towards Spock. You blue-blooded bastard! Yeah, he's constantly... He's always here with his stupid Vulcan head.

Fucking stupid. Hey, stupid ears, come over here and do an analysis on... Yeah, dickhead. That's why Bones is literally like that all the time. Hey, analyze this, and he's giving him the middle finger and stuff. Like, come on. Kirk's just like, Bones and his racism. It's like, what the time hey analyze this and he's giving him the middle finger and stuff like come on just like bones and his racism yeah so what the fuck well i think that's a product of the 60s though right like we were still just casually racist in the 60s and so i think that you know

view of what humanity thought that they would be is right just racist forever no the next generation tried to be really squeaky clean but what it did cleverly was it used data as its outlet so data would like malfunction sometimes and then just be like more racist for an episode and that was that was the next generation's way of like you know just having an outlet to vent sometimes. Because they couldn't make Riker or Troy or Beverly Crusher. I mean, she's a mum, for Christ's sake. You can't be racist when you're a mum. But see, Data malfunctioning all of a sudden, he could turn up and he'd be like,

hey, hey, Wafflehead, you know, or like, hey, Big Nose. And they're like, what the hell's wrong with Data? It's, oh, shit, some circuit malfunction malfunction again and that's the whole episode basically and then we deleted racism in 21 22 at the conference of you know back to normal yeah you're telling me that there are episodes multiple episodes where the entire premise is data malfunctions and turns into a race yes of course yes that's exactly what i'm saying captain i've just noticed that uh jordy is black no no replace jordy's human he wouldn't say anything about jordan jordan jordan jordan jordan but jordy has a race no are we saying that the the skin color essentially

differentiator has been that that has been overcome we're so he's speciest yes yes right that's the that's the type of of i've met a lot of humans who look more fucking alien than any of the aliens in star trek you know yeah i think it's at that you got you got to make aliens weird if you want to be racist against them right like put them in bags or tanks or like make them all make them you know 70 feet in size you know you got i think the problem with star trek was that all the aliens were all too fucking human and so it was it was very easy for us to not be weird right the reason was that there's some ancient civilization had seeded all these worlds with humanoids and they all evolved so differently i believe i like any trekkers out there can that was a bit of a that was a bit of a back

and the older universal translator very handy to me yeah very very handy and the fact that aliens know don't know how to kiss uh is oh speaking of kisses and talking about the original series having racism in, remember they had, at the time this was the height of the Cold War, and they had, so he was meant to be like, oh, we're chill with the Russians now. And Uhura was the first interracial kiss on television was of course Captain Kirk and Uhura. And they had that episode where the guys were were half of their face was white and half was

black and it was depending on which way round the way in black was they were like those white on the left black on the right bastards will never be in charge how dare you you black on the right white on the left son of a bitch you know they were like at odds over that division which i assume there is a cookie in the states called the black and white cookie, where it has black chocolate icing on one half and white icing on the other. And it's like a big cookie. It literally looks like that. So I assume one of the writers was buying one of these one day, saw that cookie and went, what if I could write a really shitty episode about racism and point out its stupidity? And yeah, all the other races, like you say, the Klingons, are like, despicably evil. And in the new series, it's the Ferengi.

And they're, you know, oh, they're just bad guys. They're definitely not meant to be like Jewish people. Is it Ferengi or the Romulans who have like big fucking satellite dish ears and like the pointy teeth? They look like Vulcans, because they're related, aren't they? The Romulans and the Vulcans are basically the same people. Yeah, they came from the nearby... Anyway, I was thinking about this because I went to the Van Gogh interactive exhibit.

Van Gogh. The guy outside was like, you coming in for the Van Gogh exhibit? And I was like, man, every fucking time. gogh exhibit and i was like man every fucking time but it isn't i'm covered in shit and and vomit all the time and like falling asleep standing up and this guy's going to a van gogh exhibit come on so let him be free it was in london um in like a big warehouse and the idea is is that they um they have these big projectors and they sort of project all of his art up on the walls and so like starry night and so you're in there and it's kind of this it's like it's like there's a few like it's just like a big gallery with lots of pictures of all

of his stuff and a bit of history and lots of things on the wall you know those things on the wall where you stand there and read them and you're like oh this is fucking boring and then yeah there's a big room and they just it's really interesting because it kind of immerses you in his art. Right. And it's very stylized. But it reminded me in a lot of ways of, even though this all happened in like 1880s, 1890, it's all very kind of similar.

Like you'll see like he painted like these landscapes they look the same as now you know he painted like a street the landscape looks the same as now or the paintings so you're saying like things ain't changed that much obviously obviously all the landscapes look the same but but even architecture like he paid he paid like a lot of cafe scenes and any star's in there? Well, there was like, yeah, there was almost honestly, I was like, some of the pictures that he's done that are very famous, you know, could be still, you know, an image of what you would see today,

you know, walking around any kind of European city with the cobbled streets and a cafe with some, you know, some nice chairs outside it. It's kind of very familiar. What if in the future, when all these corporations are richer than we could even imagine now, and there are trillionaires out there and stuff like that, which is coming. What if they just went and bought all this art and they now own it and they can do what they like with it?

What if Starbucks bought that cafe picture and just changed it paid someone to paint the word starbucks on the cafe and then exhibited it could you imagine that happening i i think they'd be furious if that happened people would be losing their mind they'd be thinking it's like van gogh would people actually give a shit yes because i don of course they would be sad or worse I'm telling you most people don't give a shit most people would not give a shit are you mental yes I am

I don't think people give a shit I think sadly most people would say never heard of him mate and they wouldn't give a shit I think that's the point of Van Gogh that everyone's heard of him and therefore no van gogh i think that's the point of van gogh that everyone's heard of him and therefore he's overrated you think that i don't think i i guarantee you a lot of fucking people have no fucking idea who he is i watch these videos where they go and ask people

which continent is so and so in and they have no fucking idea what's the capital of france don't know mate germany you're like they're people are fucking idiots van gogh cut his ear off didn't he but you can show them one of his paintings and say who do you think this is oh no idea mate and you can show them anything and they wouldn't even i probably probably wouldn't you know necessarily know who well i'm not an expert i'm gonna look for trademarks though right like my like my thing i always thought if i was ever going to become uh like an artist my thing would be one-legged three-breasted women like somewhere in all of my paintings you would find one right and it would be scary always painted that little bug in all the corners of

all his his uh books and things you're saying let's chuck big old three tits one leg in there yeah so 100 years time man on the street is gonna be like oh yeah chris lovett's i remember he's the one with three titted women in oh yeah love rose yeah yeah that's me i'm just saying i think i think from our closeted middle class perspective where we're very uh you know comfortable and we we know about things like van gogh and stuff like that i think a lot of people genuinely wouldn't have a fucking clue and it would be a story for a week and we would be horrified but i guarantee you most people in the world wouldn't give a shit and starbucks would think look at all this publicity we've got

i don't think they'd give a shit i don't think it would affect their sales i don't think people would be like banning starbucks for like art crime i think people would be like mad as hell well you went to a gallery let me ask you a question how busy was it it was it wasn't it was the gallery thousands of people there it was an interactive experience no but it was busy they had to like literally people queuing around the block to see this no because i went to thorpe park not long ago and getting in was a fucking bastard. More people are going to go to fucking Thorpe Park. If you tore down Thorpe Park, you'd have a revolution. People don't care about this stuff.

The matters, they don't care. They just want to go to Thorpe Park. We're overstating it. Most people don't give a shit. Most people were more upset about the fucking Super League with the Premier League. That got people out on the fucking street. Don't take old football away. But if you said, we're getting rid of all the Van Gogh paintings

and put the Starbucks there, they'd be like, that's fucking stupid, man. I don't know whether it's too much more money or sense. But they wouldn't take it to the street. They don't care. I think any lesser artist, sure, right? If it was any old fucking chump. But I feel like there's a couple of artists

that are just so culturally bound because of the ear thing and because oh he was mental wasn't he went he's crazy but he shot himself didn't he um you know because of his he became you know i i think that everyone knows van gogh your kids will know have heard of him right because he is part of our cultural fabric right that? He is some kind of touchstone, landmark moment in history and art and interpretation of what things look like, right? Yeah. And a quirky story. It's so near of what a weird thing that sticks with you, right?

Like, you know, name something that fucking, I don't know, some other famous artist did. I can't even name another famous fucking artist. Do you know what I mean? Like, Huygens. Name something that he did. Or, you know, one of the other Dutch masters. Bob Ross.

Yeah, what did he do? You know? He painted a whole bunch of banners, like fucking hundreds of episodes worth. Yeah, but he was a quirky guy. He had this big hair. He had that weird demeanor. You know, he had this, like you said,

it has to be the, they need a gimmick. I hate to say it. And I hate to say that Van Gogh had a gimmick that he fucking cut his ear off and was very mentally ill, poor man. He had a tough time. Like, it was a very sad thing. He was clearly clearly extremely accomplished

painter who struggled with mental health who took him uh and showed him what people think of his art in the future so he's fine but he didn't kill himself then no he went on to the future and doctor who saved him yeah imagine doctor who brought him to this future and made him read youtube comments about himself that'd be that'd be pretty good, right? If he was a content creator today, you could be the greatest artist of all... Mozart, right? Van Gogh, all of them could... If they were content creators nowadays, the YouTube comments, there'd still be people

that... Like rubbish, sounded like his last one. We need some new stuff from Mozart, this stuff's a bit samey. It would be like that. Yeah, it would. I think people do not appreciate fucking anything in their wankers and shitheads and idiots. I'm one of them.

But people did that at the time. Van Gogh never sold a painting when he was alive. And same thing with all these other people. I'm sure like Vermeer when he was doing those fucking beautiful photorealistic paintings and they were like incredible. Everyone was like, oh, he's just using some fucking cheat, isn't he?

He must be using some Oculus Exclusus, you know, like that fucking thing where you, you know, you have the beam of light coming through and it projects it and they paint over it. He's just painted over it. You know, I'm sure everyone was fucking given a hard time. And, like, Rembrandt was probably everyone was like oh it's not all that good is it so imagine that lewis this is at a time when there was no alternative there were no photographs there

were no films there was no instagram there was nothing none of you tiktoks basically if you wanted to go see something that looked like you know something and like like a painting that was it you had to go look at pain man even music though and even then they didn't like it what was it what was the first my point what was the first way that you could listen to music without actually being at a concert was it like that was it a gramophone or whatever like the the one the the crank one that that that that plays like the the record and then they i mean, they had those music boxes where you could go... Yeah, yeah. No, but I mean like you think like some of these like, you know,

old, old, old school composers and stuff. The only way that you really could have listened to them is to be there, right? Yeah, yeah. You'd actually have to go to the concert. I mean, they didn't have festivals where he played open air in front of a million people like the Rolling Stones do or whatever. You know, it was all very... No, I think they did, though.

I think they had, like, those open air concertos with candlelight supper included and stuff. Yeah, but that's all fancy dance given to that. That's not your average bloke, is it? No, that's true. They had amphitheaters and theaters and areas to play music and speak and things. They had these events, but I mean, it was you're right, like in a sense you know, I think what, a sense I got from

Van Gogh. Would you go, okay, I've got a question just before you continue. I've got a question for you though. I'm just going to talk shit without having any knowledge. Go on, you cut me off. Okay, imagine you live back in time and there's no way to listen to music other than to attend a live show would you go see adele live yes what is this again you're so wrong

about this of all the wrong opinions we've had your obsession with adele being a show that no one would enjoy is insane. It's insane. It's one of your worst takes. You would go and see Wu-Tang live, right? And you have done. Oh, yeah. You know, you have to like it. Do you know what I mean?

But you wouldn't, if you got, are you saying if you got free tickets to Adele and it was just around the corner, you wouldn't go? Yeah, I would not. So let me point this out. Someone called me close-minded. Somebody called me close-minded on reddit they were like parents so close-minded i don't think i'm close-minded if i just didn't say anything you could say i'm open-minded but god forbid i give an opinion my opinion is i think adele's pretty bloody good i'm not saying i'm not shooting down the wu-tang clan i'm just saying i think she's pretty good how is that close-minded?

If Wu-Tang was opening for Adele, would you go to the Adele concert? I would, yeah. I'd watch Wu-Tang. I'd leave after the opening act. I'd fucking leave. I'd be like, all right, show's over. What if the Wu-Tang was on, but Adele was playing first? What if she was opening for them and you had to sit through her?

Kind of like an Eminem dido sort of thing like yeah sure i don't know i i i guess i i guess i would like put up with it or whatever but okay what is yeah like what if they work the wu-tang clan into all of her songs what like change the beats around and like you know and then they come in yeah they sort of rap over the top of it or whatever i mean i can't think of anybody who wouldn't want to see that so i would just yeah no i would definitely watch that i think it would spice it up maybe that's what i think you would be tapping your feet along with the beat just like every old dad at a disco i think that's what i think hey do you

know what on this topic i was watching I watched the start of the Beastie Boys story on Apple Plus just like a documentary about the Beastie Boys and one thing that struck me was um the intro is like there's like there's like this kind of like five minute montage you know intro like with like some of their songs footage of them and stuff and this all leads up to the format of the show which is the two surviving members of the beastie boys um kind of like hosting like a live at a live venue they're on stage almost like they're doing a ted talk but like you know telling the story of the beastie boys sort of thing so they both come out on stage and you can see the audience and stuff

and uh you know like sabotage is playing or something like that and they come out on stage and you can see the audience and stuff and uh you know like sabotage is playing or something like that and they come out on stage and they're quite a bit older now you know like these guys are like probably in their 50s now or whatever but um the the the thing that struck me was when you look out in the audience it's it's like it was like a sea of my mom and dad like it's just like all these like balding old old people like wearing yeah well you know all these clothes and stuff and like i guess at the time they were kids when when beastie boys were like you know churning out the the bangers and stuff mike d is 56 yeah i know it's crazy it's crazy to think though isn't it they're not so much boys as a jet as gent you'd

really struggle to find in that audience any young people right because i guess it's just um like we were saying about like mozart and stuff like that you you listen to the stuff that's of of your time i suppose right like the stuff that you listen to uh and then you probably just carry on listening to i mean we've talked about this a lot but um you know what i mean like like kids now are listening to to what's popular now right the same for mozart people said i loved his early stuff you know when he was eight that stuff was great but now he's 12 yeah rubbish yeah he's really crap now yeah yeah it's it's it's a weird it's a weird one but i mean it's it's interesting too i guess but

man ill communication when that album came out yeah uh in 1994 i was just i was approaching like i was like 17 i think yeah maybe i was 18 and it was just it was so fucking good it was yeah like i was absolutely it was the soundtrack of the start of high school for me. Like it was just that album came out and you heard it everywhere. Like every skate park, somebody would be playing it. Like, you know, outside or whatever. You know, you go to school. If you took a bus to school or whatever,

you'd hear somebody would have it on their Walkman or whatever. You know what I mean? Like you just, you heard it everywhere. It was huge. It was just this like massive massive album that everybody everybody loved and it was uh yeah it's it it's it's funny to think but and now you know all those people that loved it are like in their 50s now and going to the beastie boys story live live event thing which is fine you go into the wu-tang clan yeah exactly yeah i mean all the guys in all the the the wu-tang clan members are in their 50s now

like uh i was watching uh i used to listen to a lot of like uh like no effects like kind of like skate punk when i was younger as well sure and those guys those guys are still performing and stuff. Like, they did this backyard party performance thing during COVID. And, you know, like, there was people there, like, masked. It was outdoors. But they were just playing some of their old songs and stuff like that. And these guys are, like, you know, mid to late 50s. Like, they're still, you know, they're still just doing the same old shit. You know, you can...

It is funny to see punks doing this stuff. They still have like, you know, mohawks and stuff, but they're just a little bit fatter and a little bit saggier than they were. And visibly, you can tell that most of them have really struggled through addictions and stuff in their life as well. But which is, you know, it happens. You know, some people weather it worse than others, I guess, or whatever. But I don't know.

It's kind of nice. It's like reassuring in some ways too, right? To think, oh, you know, these people are just still doing the same stuff. When people were going to see, like, Barry Manilow and stuff like that from that 70s era and the audience was all,'s for a lot of these acts people of that age man for me i don't know if this is right but that scene in goodfellas where he takes uh what's her face to um is it helen what what's her name the the karen karen when he takes karen to that show uh at at that uh at that place right where yeah it's like at the restaurant at the

restaurant and they and you know like the the waiter has to bring the table over and set it all up quickly and stuff. Bobby Darin or something, I think they go to see him. Yeah, I can't remember. And he like sends him champagne and stuff like that. People going to see Manilow must have been consuming Manilow in that manner. I will not accept it any other way, right?

That is of the time, I feel like. You know, you dressed up, you wore a suit. consuming manilow in that manner i will not accept it any other way right that is what do you mean of the time i feel like you know you dressed up you wore a suit it was like a big a big event and you went to see him at like this dimly lit venue where they had to bring the table out to you and stuff like that no i think he was like he was very popular with with women yeah he was like a heartthrob barry manilow um and i mean you of course, they didn't know he's gay. So as I understand it- Wait, what? Yes, of course.

I don't know if you're being serious. No, I'm not. I'm just joking. No, yeah, but it's- So yeah, I don't think they went... I mean, Barry Manilow played big stadiums and big concerts. Yeah, he did, yeah. He was a big artist.

He was, yeah. I don't think he played that little tiny venue. Maybe early on he did, but then I think he was a resident in Vegas for fucking years and stuff like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I think it's just the style of music. But when we were growing up, when we were growing up, that was seen as old people music. Yes.

And the Beastie Boys was completely different. Yes. So my question is, when you go to see the Wu-Tang Clan or you go to see the Beastie Boys if they played now, would it just be an old crowd and young people would be saying that's old no absolutely i mean when we went to see it still sounds relevant when we went to go see ghost face in bristol i would say that the demographic of that crowd was probably like uh it was you yeah mid 30s early 40s easy like it was people who were teenagers when when Wu Tang So my point is would young people and I'm talking teenagers and people in their 20s have any interest in their music

Would they see it as old person music? There are a lot of young people now who think that music now is rubbish Yeah, and they still listen to stuff from the 80s and 90s as being like the golden age They probably I know lots of people that say that especially when it comes to metal and rock and stuff like that it seemed nowadays as not being like a thing i think some people view 90s hip-hop as like boomer music like uh which is kind of kind of odd but i you know i guess it's changed a lot right there's multiple generations though right like i mean mean, when I was growing up, my mum listened to certain music, like The Beatles, which was fine.

You know, I think that was... And that still... It's transcended the kind of... Everyone can like The Beatles, right? Some of their stuff is almost timeless, right? And fuck Kate Bush, do you know what I mean? And fuck a bunch of the other stuff that... What the hell?

Hold on, slow down. You're not a fan of Kate Bush. No, I'm not. Man, I'm glad that you floated in with this bad take because I feel like the pressure is off me for having the Adele bad take now. How the fuck can you not like Kate Bush, dude? I don't know. I just never got it.

Oh my god. Oh my god. I think that was because it was something my mum liked Right And therefore I didn't like it Because You're not a fan of like Wuthering Heights

Or Running Up That Hill Or Babushka It wasn't my It wasn't that music That was hitting You know I was listening to You know

Gagas' Paradise and stuff Right He was listening to Kate Bush He was listening You must listen to Kate Bush Let the bodies hit the floor. She's incredible.

She is incredible. I am a big fan of Bush. I'll look it up on Spotify. I'll probably like it. Kate Bush was kind of discovered and produced by one of the guys from Pink Floyd, right? Like, wasn't he related to her in some way or something? But like, kind of discovered her and and and then yeah also like produced her first album and promoted her heavily at the time as well i'm sure this is true i was very much you

know in in the mid 90s early 2000s that's when i was this that's when i was discovering music and also i was at school and so it was important music it was important to to like the music your peers were listening to you know this may be Strokes and that kind of stuff. Well, I mean, that's what teenagers are like, right? And you carry a lot of that with you throughout your life. What was your music snobbery of the time? Like, you know, as a person who was like, you know, say 14, 15 years old, you started listening to, at the time time what you thought was like serious music right

important music you kind of transition from like listening to joke music to or like kids music to just like normal music you're right in your eyes it's like it's like it's like the ramones right it's like it's like people think teenagers so there's certain groups of teenagers who are the music aficionados right and they have they're the ones with ramones t-shirts who don't actually like the ramones um and and stuff like this you mean like like that there's certain bands that do have this reputation pick floyd's good example as well of people who are kind of the the the the the the artist's choice you know almost like uh the artist's choice, almost like the artist's favourite artist.

And I'm not saying that they're not good. They're not necessarily mainstream though, right? You know what I'm saying? Yeah. I remember being slightly snobbish towards The Offspring. Remember The Offspring when they came out? Oh, they were shit. They were, yeah. were they were very popular when they came out remember like self-esteem and all that and i so like a lot of those bands like papa roach yeah and limp biscuit

and all that shit i i really hated it what did they call it new yeah new metal yeah i left me absolutely cold it just seemed so i think the start of all that was kind of- It seemed like none of them ever fucking washed. No, I feel like this- You know what I mean? It just made me think of the insane clown posse, stinky crotch, stank-ass bitches, just disgusting fucking smelly fucking disgusting... But I thought Linkin Park were a great band.

I loved Linkin park when i was a teenager you know parker a banger mate that's that's fair but new new metal i feel like maybe i'm maybe i've i got this wrong but i i feel like there's there's a correlation between new metals popularity and uh and and professional wrestling at the time as well i bet that's really funny that's interesting because i feel like i feel like wwe or was probably wwf at the time and uh and wcw helped popularize new metal big time right like because they used the music went with it that was just like go-to genre music for every entrance for a wrestler at the time right like it was it's angry music right but it's also kind of modern so you don't feel like you're just playing acdc again

like it's something that's current so young people will like it but it's also angry and wrestling fans always seem to be like screaming like they're about to tear someone apart uh so yeah that's that's really interesting that's my take on it i always see it that way as well but for me i feel like nu metal kind of started with like with uh rage against the machine right like their sound was just so different to what you were kind of used to in in the 90s i don't know if i'd consider them nu metal i don't know they were so different though like because they were very different because nu metal to me always had like kind of almost a bit of hip-hop to it right like like just like the beats and like the just the the the cadence and

stuff too all right so would you put well what do we call the red hot chili peppers chili peppers is no but what was the name we came up with them for the other week we called them the the chili willies or something i can't remember now oh fuck well either way would you say that they were new i don't know i mean red hot chili peppers i feel like are man i don't know i don't know how to categorize like i would probably categorize them sometimes as pop right like because some of their songs but certainly their earlier stuff their earlier stuff yeah it was very demeaning had it had rapping and stuff like that like that was not an uncommon thing and you would say Anthony Kiedis's singing was not the classic

rock style it was different I guess so it was weird they're like a they are a rock band they have to be and I feel like they've experimented a lot too like i'm not but do you think that they had a big influence on new metal because they were and still you know for a long time they were massive i guess so and i think they were very influential yeah i don't know like i don't know i really don't know enough about them as a band you know like i'm i'm obviously familiar with like some of their bigger, more mainstream songs or whatever. But like I've never owned a Red Hot Chili Peppers album or listened to a full album or, you know, like I wouldn't say I'm a fan. Like some of their songs I like.

So what about Porno for Pyros? Do you remember them? I remember Porno for Pyros, yeah. And bands like that. So when you think about bands like that, I feel like that was a, and the Red Hot Chili Peppers, that was a very California thing. Yeah. They were always tops off, very tan, lots of tattoos. Yeah.

You know, they looked like a bunch of surfers. And they played a sort of, not softer metal, but different from the classic metal that had been around in the sort of 70s and 80s and as the 90s came out they became different red hot chili peppers porno for pyros like a new wave of metal you might say man what uh remind me porno for pyros like what was like a big song of theirs like i can't like i i remember the band but i just can't remember any of their music um what about um we'll make great pets Do you remember that one? We'll Make Great Pets, oh maybe. I don't know.

I have to go back and listen to. I'll recognize it if I hear it, but it's been a while, like again. Yeah. I mean, they weren't like enormous or whatever. They weren't like the Red Hot Chili Peppers, but they were pretty big. I mean, there were a lot of bands around like that California rock sound. But I think that was what led into Limp Bizkit stuff and insane clown posse that kind of but that was more of a i could be talking absolute bollocks here but this is how i feel about it when our

music knowledge ends right like oh man for me for me like late 90s is kind of like it drops off and ever since it's been like yeah there's some stuff now yeah i went to a gig a couple of weeks ago for a band that's still going and relatively young yeah no i wish i did listen to more music i think it's like i i think it's not as common but it i mean for sure it happens you know like i guess the thing is i do listen to a lot of music but i don't know who it's by music is fucked up now it's on i listen to spotify but i don't listen to a lot of music, but I don't know who it's by. Music is fucked up now. I listen to Spotify, but I don't listen to necessarily specific bands. You can consume a ton of different music now, like never before, right? I listen to weird genres, like Nintendo, Edge, Cyberpunk Pop.

I listen to weird fucking mix-up playlists, and I find a song I like, and I play song radio, and the place fucking random shit i think that's the noah band the album is dead the album i'm sorry to say it but the album is dead yeah like you can be a well-known artist but nobody could name one of your obviously there's exceptions to this but in the general sense yes i agree but albums used to be fucking everywhere yeah right obviously smoke and oakum i know in general people consume artists track by track and you want to have a whole bunch of different tracks by a whole bunch of different artists rather than waiting for a big new album to drop and that whole album has taken like three years to put together now it's like album album album album album tour tour tour tour all at the same time. So I feel like there's a been a big change from the big like

Defining album of a genre and a sort of generation. Yeah, like like sergeant pepper, for example Yes, although that that's not the only one. I'm obviously just an example nowadays artists They do bring out new albums, of course But the idea that people only can see music by listening to an entire album is people don't just buy albums they buy tracks or they just listen on spotify or it's changed i am interested in the concept of of an album though and and like uh like the flow of an album and if people do it and they do it well i still think that that's great you know to listen to an album from start to finish because that's kind of the way they intend you to listen to it. Right.

But bear in mind, back then, like we're talking tapes, CDs and records. You put that on and you have to listen to the whole thing or you have to find one track, listen to it, take it off the record player or take the tape out remember you right put another tape in so really the album experience it was defined by technology rather than people's taste yeah yeah yeah there's there's i can't think of a time when i have actually put on music to listen to that music specifically it's always to when i'm doing something i guess like a podcast. I'll give you, here's an artist for you. He's very young. He's been around for a few years now, but he's very young. He's like 27 or something. And he's got, I think he's got two albums.

27. So he's very young. He's very young. His name is Sam Fender. He's British. He's excellent. Is he British or is he British? He is from Newcastle. So he's British he's British. And he's absolutely brilliant. I saw a couple of my lads put me on to him. He's really, really good. He is like a British version of Bruce Springsteen. The sound is very similar. Saxophone, drum, rock. He sings about real things like you know, his life and things that people are worried about,

and genuinely moving lyrics. He's brilliant. He's absolutely brilliant. So yeah, I think he's the closest thing I've heard to Bruce Springsteen. Does he have any Adele diss tracks? Because I would be 100% more interested. He does not. I fucking hate Adele.

Everybody put your hands in the air If you fucking hate Adele. Everybody put your hands in the air. If you fucking hate Adele. She's so fucking boring. Who the fuck would even go to an Adele concert? They'd be fucking bored. Fuck Adele. And if Wu-Tang opened for her, I would only go to see them and then leave. It's like very specific.

Oh, man. That's catchy. Dude, I'm definitely going to check him out now. I haven't heard that little demo. I'm glad you got permission to play that.

There's a saxophone solo in there somewhere too, yeah. Oi, period, mate. If you want to play me new Adele's diss track, you go ahead, mate. Keep covering the fucking

Trace House podcast. I fucking hate Adele. Oh, man. I think we should probably leave it there thank you everyone bit of a weird little chat today but I enjoyed it we covered a lot of bases, music, Star Trek politics, art all the staples of the podcast

it's like a true icing on the cake episode. Yeah. All right. Well, love you. We'll see you next time. Thank you for watching.

Peace. Goodbye. Bye.