Triforce! - Triforce! #251: The Safe Space Podcast

Episode Date: March 29, 2023

Triforce! Episode 251! There's nothing I can write in this description that won't lead to the podcast getting blacklisted. Support your favourite podcast on Patreon: https://bit.ly/2SMnzk6 Music courtesy of Epidemic Sound. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Welcome. Hello. You were late this morning, P-Flex. So me and P-Flex. I wasn't late. Hello, what's up? You were late this morning, P-Flex, so me and P-Flex... I wasn't late. Sorry, Sips. Me and P-Flex were talking about games. What game is this? Anno.

I've been playing Anno. Ah, okay. And I love Anno games. That's Anno from me. No, you don't know me. I'm just joking. I love me some Anno. That's very good.

Yeah, you like that. Yeah, I like that yeah i like that that is funny thanks thanks you've done well so i think the reason i got back into it is because i think i've subscribed to a bunch of subreddits and they kind of function as like pseudo adverts right yeah every now and then i get like a pop-up from hearthstone or um factorio or ano and so and that pulls me back in i'm like wow, wow, that guy does something really cool. I've got an itch. And then I have to go in and then three weeks of my life gets swallowed up by the monster of game addiction.

Well, listen, I recently, my son, I got my son his own Steam account, which he was like thrilled about. He used to just use mine. We used to have to do like the whole like, you know, one person using it in offline mode well the other person could use it online whatever sure but now he's got his own and the first game uh that he has in his own steam library is satisfactory which we played together multiplayer which is a lot of fun and uh i had one of those moments where i just felt like i was einstein because i played a lot of that game and i know how to set like a bunch of the the certainly like the beginner stuff up and he was just he just couldn't fucking believe it he was just like oh my god how do you

do this stuff look at this conveyor belt these ratios this efficiency it's just like he thinks i'm some sort of genius now because uh i can get like the first uh you know i can make iron ingots in satisfactory so it was nice it was good fun yeah yeah well that's no that's no mean feat no it takes a couple of hours to get all that going it does yeah yeah wait you know wait till he sees the the the cold power generators the water and everything holy crap he's gonna have a meltdown people call satisfactory like slow factorio right where yeah there's a lot of single player running and jumping and moving and fiddling right and clearing the land and stuff but it looks immensely satisfying to like have the mega like put these mega things down oh yeah i think that was one of the things i liked about minecraft when we

were playing some of the mod packs was making these mega blocks, you know, and having like putting together these huge structures that did things. And it just felt so, I don't know, like so cool to interact with the world in a, in such a huge first person shooter way, right. Placing these things. Like we played some Viking game where you could like build a whole village,

like pretty quickly. And it was just like, no, it was, it was, it had like set. It was satisfying. I think we're satisfactory.

You move on, you have to keep doing it right right like the gameplay is now you have to build another one but for this thing now you've got another one over here yeah but for this thing factorio is the same i don't know if you guys get this i don't flex you don't really play games like that as such but no the it's a it's a ramping up of complexity and to a point where you reach a limit with it, right? You're just like, all of a sudden, you just need to make more and more, and you have to scale up what you've already done, and your brain just melts out of your ears.

I think it's a job. I was looking at the games that I play, because people are always like, I don't think that's a P-Flex game, like about quite a few things. I think I hate myself based on the games i play i think i have a lot of self-loathing going on yeah because most of the games i play either drive me insane or just so brutally hard that it's actually punishing yeah the thing is when it comes to anno and factorio and satisfactory these games are jobs right they're chores right like you are basically taking on usually it's like but in the same way as building a jigsaw or doing a

crossword like these things like you know what you have to do and maybe a crossword's easier but a jigsaw like it's it's kind of just feels like you're painting a wall or something like if i'd be better off like laying floor tiles right or like you know then charging someone for it yeah i think i think games like that the the games that you guys have described i'd say most of those kind of building games are about taking your time to plan things and kind of methodically doing things gradual improvements and streamlining and efficiency and and all that and the problem is i have real trouble paying attention to that kind of stuff for any length of time like i just

do um i have i have the opposite i have real trouble letting go of it and suddenly it's 2 a.m and i'm and i haven't peed for an hour and i'm like you know i haven't drunk anything for three hours i think oddly enough those are the kind of games that mrs f would really like like she used to play civ she never did war just built up army so no one would fuck with her and then she would just build the perfect sort of you know get the farms just right and the roads and and she's just more interested in that and i think when you when you play something like uh those kind of building games it's about about how perfect can I get it? And it becomes, like you said, like work almost. Whereas Tarkov, which is what I've

played most of the year, Tarkov is just devastatingly brutal, getting your ass handed to you. And apparently, I don't know if you guys have seen the news, buy cheaters a lot of the time. There's been a huge upset in the Tarkov community. I've played this wipe of Tarkov.

For anyone who doesn't know, it wipes every six months. Everybody goes back to level one, no gear, all the rest of it. So the game is divided up into sort of wipes. And I started just after Christmas when the wipe was, and I played until I think Friday of last week, every day. That was it. I was playing Tarkov all day, every day. Hardly played any dotes this year because we're waiting on the new patch which is coming on the 6th apparently.

And then the cheating accusations came out and a lot of stuff made sense when you looked back and thought, shit that's why that guy just fucking insta-domied me and knew where I was and all this kind of stuff. And it just put me off. And I think it put a lot of people

off. We've all experienced this lot of people off we've all experienced this right we've all experienced this because we always just think how best if you must have gotten lucky and sometimes you've got lucky right sometimes i've played these games where i just happened to be in the right place at the right time and i clicked and suddenly it actually shot me in the head and i was like what the fuck sure am i i completely did that by accident and he you know he probably looked back at it and thought, how did that guy do that? But I think in some of these games it is ingrained. There's clearly a cheating component or a smurfing component. There's no matchmaking in Tarkov.

I could be level one, brand new account, and you could be level 60 and absolutely sweating your balls off. And we will queue into the same match there's no match but here's the here's the thing right like when they did that so that was how it was originally with fall guys right fall guys was was very popular because all these streamers were who were very very experienced at the game played a lot were playing against brand new accounts and kids basically and dominating and they were winning a lot right and they were they were getting lots of views on the stream they were enjoying playing it but soon as the game added

matchmaking properly and they were matched against people of their play experience yeah they were suddenly not winning or not even close to winning anymore and they got bored and then quit right so bizarrely um you can actually drive away and i I think this is what the game, what I heard, you know, it's kind of a horrible thing to say, but they drove away the streamers who were promoting their game by making the game fair. And the big, when you're streaming the game, you want to feel, when you're enjoying the game, you want to feel powerful, you want to win, right? And you want to crush noobs. But at the same time, what they were finding with Fall Guys is, yes, they were driving away the streamers, but what they were doing was they were actually retaining some people because so many accounts joined Fall Guys and just could not win or could not get close to them. We're in the bottom 10 every time. And if you play your first 10 games and you come in the bottom 10 every time, you're not going to have a good time.

You never really get to play the game. You just think, oh, this game isn't for me. Maybe I'm just not made for this game, right? Whereas, in fact, you're just in an unbalanced matchmaking system. So is Fall Guys doing okay? Not really. No, I don't think so. But I think that it was fairly limited in its content and scope anyway, right? Yeah.

Every game designer has to design this evergreen game, which is full of content. And then they get surprised when everyone quits because there's not enough content. I think it's doing all right. It was bought by Epic and then put free to play. I think it's nowhere near where it was, though, when it had its heyday. No, yeah. It was the initial hype of the game, definitely. I mean, it's gone full Fortnite fortnight with the skins and yeah and all

the crazy stuff but i think that you know there is a lifespan to these things not every game can be evergreen right it can still be a fun experience but i think fall guys as well like is a fast experience right like it's pretty intense pretty quick and i think that can be exhausting right if you've got like if you're playing mario party you can't play mario party for like a marathon 18 hours right you can maybe do a couple of hours of it and realize you know i had a nice day or jackbox right you can do jackbox games for like an hour right yeah but if you have to do them all day or you want to do them multiple days in a row it works insane whereas the opposite with something like um you know factorio or satisfactory right where you've you've you you're making such gradual steps in progress that you're keen to come back and make

the next one as long as it's divided up well into steps i think um it can it can have the sort of a problem of overwhelming like oh you know like i've not done this well or i don't want to have to do this again i i think i've i've come to enjoy the beauty of the games more over time as well. I think a lot of people play Anno with a very min-max attitude. Like, I'm going to try and get as many people, you know, with just a numbers game, right?

Many people on as many islands as possible. And, you know, fuck everything else kind of thing. I'm going to just try and get to the cap and see how many 17 billion people I can fit on these islands or whatever. I'm at the point now where, and I get to the cap and see how many 17 billion people can fit on these islands or whatever i'm like um i i'm at the point now where i like and i and i get to this this isn't new i do get to this this is new for me to start to start beautify like i haven't done that before my my thing now like there's certain games that i just don't like to play against other people cheating

or not you know what i mean like they they you you get past a point where it's enjoyable and it it does almost become a job but a very tedious one at that right because you can't keep up with some of the people that play games you know like uh and it's like the it's the whole mentality around meta gaming and stuff you know like uh there's there's so many games that i i would rather play when i'm when i'm at my most miserable playing a game like tarkov or dota oh man and anything that's online where you're playing against people and you you you can't you have no idea whether or not they're cheating you have no idea whether or not they outskill you until it's too late and they clearly outskill you you know what i mean it's just too um it just sucks it just it just feels like shit every fucking time i play a lot of board games

um and i played this game on board game arena called tapestry which is kind of like a civilization and i've played a bunch of it i played probably probably 10 15 20 games on tapestry right online and i'm not good right i'm still like a novice or whatever rank right i'm not good there's a couple of other games on there i'm like fucking ranked as like master and i've played them like three times somehow and so i went around to um friend's birthday party at the weekend and he was like oh i've got got tapestry do you want to play and i'm like oh my god i've played this so much online but uh yeah i'll play you guys and i'll you know i'll just i'll just show you how to play kind of thing because they hadn't played it before they crushed me they absolutely crushed me and I knew exactly

what I was doing I was like telling them things I was like I was like halfway through I was like you guys need to stop listening to my tips because I'm fucking losing this game and I just I just got like half their score I don't I feel like if you're playing a board game with friends it's different though right like you're not there's no uh there's there's no there's no really unknown you know like you kind of you you know what your your friend's skill level is or not and uh and you know and it's a bit more fun you you have the other person right there with you like playing couch co-op games and stuff like that is is different as well you know or if you're playing like street fighter against your friend you don't mind if he's good because you're sitting right next to me she's like i'll fuck you whatever like you don't mind if he's good because you're sitting right next to me.

He's just like, oh, fuck you, whatever. Like, you know, let's try again or let's just do something else sort of thing. But I don't know. You just get into such a trench with online gaming, like especially like competitive multiplayer online gaming. I don't know. Like I've played my fair share of it, but my takeaway from it or how i'm left feeling uh after every time i play these games is just shit like i i would just rather play a single player game uh i think more wholesome i mean i mean me and bed talk about this a lot and and and about the the idea

of versus versus games and i think that's the main reason we don't like playing warhammer is because you're you're playing against someone if if there was some sort of cooperative version it's more fun i think there's a couple of more games like that like um where you can play cooperatively with people and some of them there's a thin line or something and you're all together there's a thin line between hero one person just playing everyone though because sometimes you know if it's if it's if it's basically just a single player game where you've split it off into four characters kind of like across the obelisk or something you know it's hard to not just um have one guy be like constantly basically just playing the four characters um it

doesn't happen so much with like for the king i found you know but in in a similar vibe you know like it's hard to design a game that is play where you're on the same team but not um so i think gloomhaven is a board game that people i hate it but i know people who love it um and i'm not gonna debate them it's you know board games are like that there are plenty of weirdo games that i like but gloomhaven is just tedious to me and not fun but it is a cooperative game and i know people that play it and they fucking love it it's all they want to play uh i mean we played that unfathomable there's didn't we the uh the thing where you're on a ship was it on fab unfathomable yeah something like that where you were maybe it's not maybe it's a different one either way it's like it was that Cthulhu one right and I can see how it's essentially teaming up to beat a very hard not AI opponent but

it's sort of single-player objective but you do it as a team and I like that I mean I've been looking like I said for a really fun single-player game for some time that has a lot to it. And sort of, you know, that's why I was really hopeful about a bunch of games, and they kind of sadly weren't quite what I was hoping for. But there are some games I enjoy playing multiplayer. Like, I generally, if I'm playing a game like Blood Bowl,

which I've played, I've already done 35 hours of this fucking game, Blood Bowl 3. It just came out the other day. What a fucking shit show. Holy shit. So many problems with it. But it is still Blood Bowl, so I don't mind playing it. But it's just kind of...

Blood Bowl! I get frustrated by the game design more than the people I'm playing against. Because it's got some fundamental problems. I had the Cyanide dev in chat the other day because it's not a very streamed game. So I tend to do all right for viewer numbers on it.

And the dev popped in and I was like, oh, is that the real dev? And he was like, yeah, what's up? I was like, I got some choice words for you, my friend. Like the game is just... For example,

they posted a roadmap of where the game's gonna be over the next year. Imagine one of the fundamentals of online gaming is that sometimes people accidentally disconnect from a game their internet drops for a second and they lose the connection. The reconnection is probably gonna come sometime in August so at the moment if you DC from the game for any reason even for just a moment it's a concede and the game is over. So that's kind of bad. I'd say a good 20% of the games end in some kind of crash or bug, soft locks, hard locks, all the locks. And it's just super scuffed. The UI has some problems and as i understand it they are sort of working on patches but honestly it just seems to they had a year-long beta last year and there's

still stuff in there you think how the fuck is that in there but then i also get angry with the basic design of the game and ben was i was chatting to ben he was in chat the other day and i was talking to him about it it's incredibly slow to level up your lads in Blood Bowl. So that's 30 hours I've been playing with more or less this one team of orcs. And if you bump into a team that just kicks the shit out of you, that 30 hours is gone. So it's not like a single player game

where you can blame yourself and you're like, oh, I fucked up and you could maybe have a save point you can roll back to. That's it. All that time is for nothing because of the nature of multiplayer gaming. There's no save points. There roll back to that's it all that time is for nothing because of the nature of multiplayer gaming there's no save points there's nothing like that it's brutal so i think in terms

of the reason that i would like to have a nice single player experience again it's because sometimes you don't want to have to fuck around with with people just destroying your team and you're like i've wasted my fucking time it's nice sometimes to just be able to chill and complete a game and try again and yeah yeah people and yeah oh man i'm i need something like that i've been playing a lot of uh hitman the new um roguelike mode uh if you like hitman it's hard i almost didn't uh see it through like the first couple of times i played it was so hard I didn't enjoy it but I I kept I kept at it because I it has like a lot of nice progression stuff and

I played 250 hours of it Locked every single thing almost. Yeah, almost you would you would you are a real completionist when you get into a game It's actually pretty impressive. It's really impressive. You will commit. Well, I mean it's actually pretty impressive it's really impressive like you will commit well i mean it's it is it is such a fantastic game as well it is just such a nice game to play like it just feels great all the different ways that you can uh assassinate people and and stuff it it lends itself well there's so much comedy to it as well there's so many hidden hidden little dialogues and shit that you can uh you can do

like funny ways to accidentally kill people and stuff it's it's wonderful it's really i've really enjoyed it so like actually you know hunting all the achievements and stuff has been has been pretty fun but um you know once once i'm done with it i i need to find something else to move on to which is uh you know when you when when you when you get into something it's nice to be like really into something and like addicted to it right but then that transition period where you're just like i'm kind of done with this game and i need something else i was like that with played up last year i've played so much played up but i was really really enjoying it you guys crushed that i was just addicted as hell to it but i've been going through some of the um

some of the games like best of last year's games um which i missed i've been playing this sort of point and click called norco oh is it any good i've got it i haven't played it yet which is like it's it's pretty it's pretty compelling yeah i think it's like it's it's it's pretty gripping it obviously it's a point and click and there's a lot of story stuff and the point and click is pretty basic you know it's not like too cryptic yeah um because i really enjoyed um god what was it called the case of the golden idol i i did that oh that's meant to be really good yeah yeah it's good i mean it's no over din no what is what is exactly what a fucking game it's fun it's like a puzzle it's basically a series of puzzles and i like the art style yeah and it's almost all about

you you have the sort of crime scene and it's got people frozen in sort of half an animation so you can see what they're up to and then you have to look through the clues and it unlocks other clues and stuff so it was really really fun it was uh It was really good. Because sometimes I just like a good puzzle. You know what I mean? Everyone likes to think they would have been a good detective. Oh, yeah. What do we got here? What do you got for me? Oh, boss, looks like we

got a Vix over there. This guy, he's also dead. There's two other dead guys in the cupboard. Oh, this is just a goddamn shit show. There goes my weekend. It's like the idea that you'd be there cracking the case. But I watched a show called 24 Hours in Police

Custody. Have you heard of it? Yeah, I've seen that. Yeah, it's a really good show. It's wild, eh? It is. And it's like real cases. There was one of this guy just fucking running around with a gun. It's in Luton. And I've got i gotta say this show does not do luton any favors what a fucking shithole it looks crazy any listeners out there in luton

how bad is it how bad is it i don't long time ago this is wisconsin 2.0 you're setting yourself up for don't speak don't speak ill of luton i ain't going to fucking Luton anytime soon. I went there a long time ago and it was a dump. I'm just curious if things have changed or if it's gotten worse. It seems to be really loco crime out there. This guy had a problem with someone at the off-license, so he pulled a gun on him or something like that. It was all kinds of crazy shit.

Anyway, the detectives in that case, I would say, it seems to me, and I know we've got some listeners who are uh who are part of the popo it seems to me like 90% of the job now is in the office looking at CCTV that seems to be a huge part of it and then using that CCTV stuff to go and look stuff up and look through databases and things like that and then the interviews and almost always people just say no comment and if they know what they do and they'll say no comment but there was this one the other day it was a really good one this guy finds these guys burglarizing his house and they're trying to break in to i think either his garage or his his house and steal his motorcycle he runs out to

confront them and they leg it and this is where he makes the mistake he gets in his car and chases them and he's chasing them for some time yeah and eventually he comes around a corner and hits the back of their motorcycle their motorcycle goes fucking flying he loses control and crashes into a van writes off his car their motorcycle fucking goes flying and they get badly injured these lads are seriously seriously injured and the point is did he have to do that we don't have the laws in this country to allow you to fucking chase people down no um you know and there's there's some leeway which is like your blood was up you were scared you did something you know you fall back in the heat of the moment there's some leeway around that but if

you're chasing people for like 10 minutes yeah you had time to cool down and you didn't which means at that point you made a conscious decision i'm gonna fucking have these lads and then well it's premeditated yeah but i mean the way they look to the the city and or town you live in is not a fucking battle arena and it's not a game of grand theft auto i mean jesus christ there's like kids out there there's all sorts of you what are you doing driving after somebody like you you have no business doing that it's so fucking dangerous it's so selfish as well yeah it's just it's it's nuts because there's this do you think he should be able to ram them off their motorcycle no no but i think that at the same time that everyone's got their own i think they should all be in jail everyone's got their own life life that's happened to them and their own situation

right in context you know his actions may well be explainable i'm not saying they are but but in a sense like maybe a lot of a lot of crimes a lot of crime stuff doesn't go doesn't go punished right most people who are caught are caught because they made a mistake or there was a lucky break or there was you know there there was some sort of moment where they fucked up or didn't know something or were ignorant, right? Like, basically, it's a common thing where people can, you'd be surprised how easy it is to get away with crime, right? Yeah, yeah. If you're not a complete plonker.

And, but at the same time, there is this, like, this like passion element right to a lot of crimes like a lot of people who were caught were were kind of it wasn't premeditated in a sense it was it was it happened when they saw something they got angry emotions took over and they had this crime of passion now we don't have any laws in the uk about that but certainly it's still a big part of criminal justice in france that there is this idea that you could have um you could have been overwhelmed with emotion and have have taken actions that were not passion they have the same in canada to some extent i think you can do it and i think i think in some cases that's in a lot of cases that's used as an excuse right because

what other excuse is there you know in in many cases like they if someone gets caught or or and usually they get caught again by something like like i was watching this thing the other day where a guy wanted to kill his wife and so he he um he she drove the car into a tree but he drove it in on like the passenger side right so it would kill her kind of thing a very horrible crime but they sort of they almost got him on it because every car these days it's not that old has like a black box kind of in it you know or a little tracker that says like the last things that were done and it showed that he didn't press the brake he didn't try and swerve he didn't try and you know there were no tire yeah he just slammed right

into the he just and as a result it was kind of this thing whereas like he had 10 seat belts on he was really strapped in well actually i think that is the other thing i think he went into the And as a result, it was kind of this thing where it's like... He had 10 seatbelts on. He was really strapped in. Well, actually, I think that is the other thing. I think he went into the brace position. Fuck me. Because he was a pilot, right? And so, I think they could tell he went to the brace position because of one of the injuries. I think his wristwatch left an imprint in his forehead or whatever, you know, so it showed that he had his hands up.

Man, there's another, there's a new story recently. Sorry, this is somewhat related. Again, a pilot, trained pilot. He killed his wife with a claw hammer in front of his young kids. Oh, my God. Or his young kids were just in the other room, like, you know, cowering. He just, I guess he just lost it and just just killed his wife and then that sounds absolutely fucking all was that the one in surrey that was the other week

buried her in the backyard or something i think so some guy killed his entire family and then himself i mean these people are that's mental illness like that's just well it seems to be a very i think a lot of this is dominated thing the whole killing your entire family and then yourself because if it feels like to these in these men's minds they failed and so they're just going to reset it for everybody it's like a board flip in real life do you know what i mean it's like they're just flipping the board that's it game's over yeah well why also though i think you're fucking going to kill yourself. Just kill yourself.

Don't fucking kill everybody around you. To some extent, though, like it's, it's, it's, I look, I'm not saying I know the answers to any of these cases.

I think what happens is that people often feel they have no choice, right? These guys, maybe what they've done is they've, they've done something wrong or bad or, you know, something they feel like there's no coming back from. And then they just keep taking further steps. Right. So it maybe he did something like i don't know oh god i don't

even want to speculate what he did but you know maybe he did something that he felt was was awful and his life was over regardless or he would go to prison regardless so why not go further and further no if you're gonna do that just just do yourself don't kill your fucking family i think that's just the so fucking selfish it implies ownership it's like it's like driving your car off a cliff you know what i mean it's like no one's gonna have my uh my fucking this is not a new thing this is not a thing is it this is look trifles don't have the most nuanced takes on this i'm sure as usual but i i guess what i'm trying to say is that i i why does this keep happening it's always it's happened so much like there's always something

going on it's always dudes doing yeah it's just it is like recently in the news there's the story of the you know the couple that disappeared the baby uh and then there's there's another story recently of a couple with a teenager that was bedridden that they they left and she she died and uh so there i mean it's not just men doing this there's there's also no women doing it as well like it's yeah but it seems like it's men only men doing it but there is something that happens where you get a couple and they're both fucking insane. Yeah. Or just evil.

And it always seems to be like when it's a couple. Oh, my God. You're right. You know what I mean? You've always met like an insane man or an insane woman. You've thought, fuck, I'm going to avoid them. Yeah. But then someone who's actually insane.

Yeah. They're like another crazy person. Great. It's like two electrical cables. Right. Two live wires touching. Yeah. And then, you know, normally it's like two electrical cables like two live wires touching yeah and then you know normally it's fine because because i think the crazy people get get looked after by people around them and and brought down so you know you like you see these couples with like

the crazy one and the normal one right and you're like oh my god what what guy or what girl like sticking with that loser or that nutcase right but but yeah i guess look every situation's got to be different and so trying to trying to make a simple sentence to explain why people do these awful things is like really fucking hard oh my god to try and figure it out yeah like we just don't we just we just sometimes it's astonishing what people will do and shocking too right like yeah and i but the thing is like in uh especially in this country maybe not so much in america because i think i think what you're sentenced is normally what you end up serving in america right more or less no i think i think i think that's here

no but i know in in in America, life is life. Over here, life is 20 years or something. Right, right. But I think the difference is that I think you can get out. I think if you're sentenced to eight years here, you do eight years. No. Whereas in the States, you can get out in half that time if you. And we don't do plea deals in the same way.

I think it's the other way around. I think in the States. Oh, really? I think in the States, if you're're sentenced normally you're serving your full sentence plea deals is is plea deals are to avoid court in the first place yeah they they do they can you can do a plea deal so that you can avoid the rigmarole of court and sentencing and stuff like that usually usually it's it's saying yeah i did it but i'm telling you i did it and can you just be lenient on me or or i'll give you some information that you need or something like that you know what i mean and it it's not for every every case there's like it's it's very

specific when you can sort of do a plea deal or whatever but uh i as far as i know in the uk you can get out in like half the time that you're sentenced for for good behavior and stuff but the the whole speculate the whole thing that comes up around it though is like with some of these crimes uh like the and and the and the and the gravity of some of them not only to the to the victims of the crime but the implications also on the on the on the people who are doing these crimes their mental health and whether they're a threat to society or not anymore or whatever i don't know how somebody can can kill somebody in in the most brutal way and then ever ever come out of jail again but they do you know like they there's there's even in the news there's cases where people people murdered somebody 20 years

ago or whatever and they're because it isn't just that they're due to be released and you just think what's complex of course it is but fuck me man there's everyone has their own things and i'm so different to how i was i'm not saying let's free all the criminals no i'm saying that that you could understand that that people can change or should be able to or else why don't we just hang them um and and we've you know i think you you it's easy for someone on the outside to say oh he killed his wife let's put him in prison for the rest of his life and not know all the circumstances and the real the real possibly the real story all the sure even if you don't have evidence like but like the thing is if you're if you're imprisoning your wife in a dungeon and torturing her and then eventually killing her and going to jail for 20 years.

You know what I mean? No, no, you're not, you're not being rehabilitated from that. Like you, I don't think those are the, I don't think those are the everyday ones,

but I think some of them do come out. I don't think they're let out after two years of good behavior. No, not after two years, not after two years, but after 20 years or whatever of serving, I don't think most crimes are like those Hollywood dungeons and stuff. Those are the rare, After two years, but after 20 years or whatever of serving, they're potentially coming out. I don't think most crimes are like those Hollywood dungeons and stuff.

Those are the really rare ones. Do you know what I mean? Those are the ones we hear about, I think. Yeah. Those are the dramatic over-the-top. I feel like we hear about enough of them. I don't think there's very many of them that are real. You say this, but-

When was the last time someone was in a dungeon that you heard about? Fritzl. It's like years ago. Well, Fritzl, yeah. But even the stories I just talked about. That was like 10 years ago. Yeah, with the baby found in the forest, the baby's body found in the forest. And the teenager who was basically just left to die.

Just so mistreated. Were those both in the UK? Yes. So, I mean, I'm not defending either of those criminals. That's two really horrible ones in a week that's true but that is also out of a population of about 60 million people i know but i'm just saying i don't think that if you're doing shit like this you should ever come out i think you're fucked your your your brain is just not compatible with the with the rest of you know

mostly law-abiding society i just don't think i think you cross a threshold with some of this stuff i think once you've killed somebody however you've decided to kill them there's no going back you've done it you've you you're you know what i mean like you're you're you're on the path to normalizing it somehow so if i'm if i'm found guilty of murder say and i was in an abusive relationship and i had killed my abusive partner yeah let's just imagine which does happen yeah should i should i be locked up forever no absolutely not it was murder but it wasn't you you weren't fucking torturing somebody or mistreating them or something you were you you you basically had to do it in some form of self-defense i'm sure

that that's i think i think that's an example where i would expect that somebody right isn't a threat to society you know what i mean but so i'm pretty sure that that's the exact kind of question and nuance that they put into sentencing people like this because if you do something that fucking bad yeah i mean if let's say you're in your 30s and you get sent to prison for 25 years you are gonna come out at the end of that 25 years or you might be given a rest-of-life sentence where you're just in prison forever I think for crimes where you think these people like you said are fucking animals like there's no way you could trust them again They're just gonna be out in society being awful people. But yeah. We should just lock them up for the rest of their lives.

Absolutely. So here's another question, because this is something that people are starting to talk about a bit now. What about, and I realise this might be controversial, and as Lewis said, we're not about nuance here. This is just a chat. Yeah.

Let's talk about the death penalty, because this is something I think about quite often. We've talked about this a lot before. But okay, first of all, before we get on to that, I think this idea is deeply ingrained in the idea of justice or like payback and it's hugely complicated and it's actually informed a lot by culture too right we're influenced by television we're influenced by what people do we're influenced by the idea of these cool vigilantes in all the all the idea that police won't get them right and

so i have to take the law into my own hands but even children are cultured to um see killing kind of as okay right like even the most children's hero like spider-man um kills people right but in a way it's like a it's like a push elimination, you know, like you'll knock somebody out and then just dump their body over a ledge or something like that. No, like they'll be killed by their own bomb or their own virus or their own building collapsing. No, Spidey doesn't kill people. No, but he kills people, often kills people die. The bad guy dies, right? No, they don't.

They come back all the time, man. What are you talking about? If I may make a case here. Dr. Octopus isn't dead, is he? Yeah, he locks him up. He locks him up every time. He locks him up. I mean, the famous thing And then he gets out in four years for good behavior. No, he escapes.

He always escapes. Yeah, I mean, Batman doesn't go around killing people very often either, does he? why would we risk leaving someone that bad alive you know i i think a lot of this stuff is you know ingrained in us right as and and somewhat like even a debated thing in in american politics you know it's a very republican idea isn't it to to see justice done it's a very south thing to like you know see you know see someone a very republican idea isn't it to to see justice done it's a very south thing to like you know see you know see someone tangible yeah wrong the death penalty and stuff yeah yeah and and people people satisfied by that and it's certainly a common thing in other parts of the

world too still you know criminals are it is i'm i'm against it for one simple reason which is that if you have a justice system that fairly regularly gets it wrong, and that's going to be a fact because it's a human investigation. Police can be biased. Evidence can be wrong. Juries can be biased. Juries can be super wrong. Yeah, absolutely. They get it wrong so often.

You're trusting that this system is just going to decide whether someone should live or die. And I think people obviously are fallible. People do awful things. And we can't forgive that. We figured out a way to deal with it, which is to lock them up. And I think that's fine. They're off the street. They're not going to be able to harm anybody outside.

Innocent people are going to be okay. All the rest of it. That works. Killing them shouldn't give you some extra sense of justice. Because if you are wrong, it is the state-mandated murder of an innocent person. Yeah. And every time that happens, I think it massively undermines any sense of justice that the system has.

Because if you lock up and kill a hundred of the right people and kill one innocent person, that's a double bad because you've killed an innocent person and the real murderer is still free so it's it's so much worse than just locking people up i just think it's unforgivable the number of times you see people released 35 years in prison and they're out yeah someone's already lost their entire fucking life to some awful biased piece of shit cop who decided they just wanted to lock this guy up and yeah pretty sure we got him

i mean look at the what is the central park five which is a very famous case in the states yeah yeah it might have been three i get the number wrong i apologize and they were convinced they got the right people yeah yeah now in a justice system where you kill people for that kind of thing those young people die and then what and then you're like oh well they were the wrong ones so now we'll get the right ones and kill them too. Where does it end? Also, the idea of setting an appointment and getting an organization and people whose job it is to kill people, like, in the name of justice, I find that abhorrent. Yeah. So, I'm dead against it.

I think locking people up for a long fucking time or never letting them out again if they're bad, we can live with that. Okay, but what about uh what about like uh the the holocaust trials and stuff what okay imagine hitler hadn't uh killed himself would you would you be happy to see him receive the death penalty for what he did and uh it's a very good his higher ups as well what most of them were uh what the ones that were uh were tried so they managed to round up a lot of them were executed um of having a sort of sliding scale where you say, oh, well, for Hitler, yes. It's like, well, what next? Why not expand that a little bit? I think if you have any kind of a scale like that, it's either going to be added to inevitably when people come up with some new crime that they decide is also really bad.

Or it's going to be slid down and up depending on who's in power. I think if you have a a binary yes or no do we kill people in the name of justice but that's the thing it's not a it isn't like that right it really is just case by case like some cases are so much worse than others and you and you can't really just treat them the same as you would any other you know what i mean like so i'm against the death penalty on principle but there are exceptional exceptional cases where i would be for it for sure i know that people say things like as long as it was a hundred percent and i mean obviously in hitler's case yeah we're pretty sure

he was denying it yeah he was in charge of everything that was going on he would have and like there's no way he would just be like, I didn't know that was happening. Well, and in that sense, what actually would happen was that would feed the lunatic argument that it didn't, the Holocaust deniers. Yeah. It's like,

oh, well, they let, you know, yeah. Do you know what I mean? Like it would, I think in hindsight it would,

right? Like I think at the time they were not thinking, oh, I think no one's thinking let's not kill hitler because yeah we need a fair trial for this man we've got to bring him in like i think that that would be another i think in a sense that's a different thing right that's incredibly political and sometimes these things are done in a political way sometimes these things are used as symbols even today i mean let's look at uh for a more recent osama bin laden is a good example right uh i mean they they they shot him and killed him yeah should they have just nicked him and brought him in and stuck him in prison because

if they do that essentially what they're saying is we're going to do some kind of justice i feel like every time we arrest this guy and take him to prison. Maybe their orders were to do that, but it was like, you know... No, I think it was Cameron. It was like in Hollywood, where it's like, you have your orders, and you got the guy sweating with the triggers, like, I fucking hate this guy so much!

Stuffy Sarge! And Sarge just gives him that knowing nod, and then he pulls the trigger. Yeah, no, maybe. I doubt it. I doubt it i doubt it yeah i think they just went in there yeah i think they did yeah um i think it was probably very very much like okay rogue one go in okay well that was what they were supposed to target eliminated that was their orders right or whatever i think there was a political decision that that was the way they

were going to do it it was going to be that's that's let's not have a let's not allow him to to continue to to to say spout rhetoric and drive things and make this story longer and potentially inspire more actions i think it was also because he was considered a high level i think he was they were like combatant they were like can we kill him legally i guess we can let's do it then i mean if not we'll just change the law to say we can, which they can do. But again, that's kind of a very political thing rather than a domestic thing. I think that's my concern with having sliding scales for things like that,

is you don't know who's going to be in charge. And whatever laws you come up with, whatever rules you decide on to combat some evil can also be turned on you. And I think that's my biggest concern about politics at the moment as well i don't want to i did we don't we avoid politics as much as we can on this podcast but anytime there's a way of doing things that just just gets you into power or just gets you to over the line an election like claiming it was false and all that kind of stuff this same kind of stuff will come back to bite you on the ass

like the weapons that you use today will be the ones you're fighting against tomorrow yeah you should never escalate in that way um yeah because you're just setting yourself up for future disaster um so so this is very hard to be more reasonable explain but i think the problem with politics is it is trying to look into the future and make decisions into the future with a ever-changing global landscape and ever-changing idiots in charge and we've always had idiots in charge making these decisions and making selfish decisions and making decisions for them or their community or or their selfish interests or or whatever motivates humans because like you said you know the reason

the death penalty is a bad idea is because there's corrupt cops there's corrupt justices there's bad justice system there's lazy people it's done by humans humans are shit at everything um and and yes we're good at a lot of things but but we're fallible and when you have these political choices you don't know what the implicate impact is going to be you know we if do we let hitler survive we don't know what the impact of that will be do we let asama bin laden survive we don't know what the impact of that will be right so as a result you will make bad decisions because they you don't know whether they you don't know what history will bring and so it's inevitable the political politicians will make bad decisions it's inevitable you know what it's funny that you said that that one of the failings of politics is it's about planning

for the long term i'd say that nobody does that i think my issue with politics is that they only plan for the headlines what what is going to say about that's part of the problem of politics in general it's i think the problem with politics in general is that the system is is destined to fail right because anyone who gets into power will make mistakes will upset people things will go wrong and then people will get slowly disillusioned with them until they vote for the other people who are promising change and then they will go ahead and do the exact same thing they'll do the best they can inverted commas but things will happen there'll be disasters there'll be financial crises there'll be terrorist actions there'll be things like that and sometimes those things will help their ratings sometimes they will generally they will hurt their rating and you know you it's rare if in fact

impossible for a politician to go in and just have their rating go up and up and up year by year you know if it's part and parcel of the system that we've built that it is this swapping of two parties often, at least in the West, and people are slowly disillusioned with the system. And because it's run by humans, it's kind of built to fail. But also it's striving for goodness, right? Everyone is always wanting it to be better and wanting it to change and wanting to improve. And I think that part of our system is to argue and to push and to be stressed and to be angry right because that's how you force through change right it's it's i think when you when you get into politics and you're interested in politics you get very passionate and angry and frustrated about you

like god the planet's dying god the fucking you know everyone's polluting everything god when wars like god like the hospitals aren't being funded and the children aren't being educated and all this stuff and you're like so angry about all of it right and that anger does fuel change um and improvement and you you don't get it without it you don't get things changing without people complaining about them right and and you don't get things being better without people complaining someone has to say oh that fucking uh you know light bulb needs changing right that's not great because they change this light bulb now people are calling for it they've been calling for it for years this party is the party of light bulb changing not like these assholes they've never changed a light bulb in their lives i'm not i'm not a i'm not a scientist

or a political scientist and you're not um well let's not this fucking podcast right now used to be a scientist but i i just think that almost like some of these systems like in the same way that tarkov or dota makes you feel a certain way and there's a certain level of toxicity and i can't quite put my finger on why i think politics makes you angry and feel hopeless and feel stressed and feel like people are useless and i think it's kind of like part it's kind of it hard despite the fact that you, a lot of people within that world are trying to make it good. Yeah. Like I think we always dwell on the bad, right? And the squeakiest wheel gets the grease.

And you always complain about like- I've been squeaking for years. Nobody's ever given me any grease. I just want to say, I've been waiting for my grease for fucking years. I squeak constantly. No grease. Where's the fucking grease?

Where's the grease? Let's change the subject slightly to just sorry no no no don't apologize this is a podcast we share ideas it's a hard it's a hard it's a hard thing to get through and we're not very good at explaining our thoughts but it's complicated you did great have a think about this a number of british artists have turned down the opportunity to play at king charles coronation including Elton John, Robbie Williams, Harry Styles and Adele. Oh, man. Turned it down. So people wondering why they're all saying, oh, no, I'm busy that day.

Sorry. But people think they're turning it down because the whole, you know, Prince Andrew stuff and the stuff between the runaway prince and his evil bride. Sure. Yeah, they're getting kicked out of Frogmore as well. What's Frogmore? I think it's like a residence within the grounds of Windsor Castle. It's like a cottage that historically Harry has lived in. Frogmore Cottage, yeah.

It's like a fucking 10 million pound mansion that's right yeah they live there well they they they don't live there because i think they live in the states now don't they because they were on like oprah and everything yeah they're in the states and all the rest of it yeah but apparently uh andrew's moving in that's what that's what i saw him uh what was his book was called what was his book called the one that just came called? The one that just came out. It was called like The Other One or Reject. Spare. Spare or something like that. Spare.

Spare, spare, spare. The Air and the Spare. Yeah, that's right. I saw him on, I think it was Colbert. Spare on Colbert. Spare on Colbert. The Air, Spare on Colbert. Talking about his book and all the rest of it which i've heard excerpts from it and it sounds unintentionally quite funny yeah um yeah i

think he takes it really seriously but i think everyone else just sort of thinks he's well i think he's gonna do well in america because traditionally for some reason they fucking love um royals that have been booted out yeah um like fergie had quite a good run over there didn't she and yeah that butler that fucking oh yeah telling stories uh paul burrell yeah yeah and and now these two so they'll do well in the states well they got james corden and piers morgan they can fucking have them jesus christ like you guys but i mean i just hate prince i don't i don't either i think he's had a hard rap because i think honestly i think he is probably out of the he's probably probably on his side out of the family rather than the others like prince william and

kate i'm more of a fan of harry and megan than them i believe them i guess more than the other side yeah i think it's much easier to believe i think if you if you find a hard shitty institution and you're immensely privileged you should just shut the fuck up nobody I think it's much easier to believe that the royal family is a shitty institution. I think if you've had a hard time and you're immensely privileged, you should just shut the fuck up. Nobody really wants to hear about it. Well, apparently not. His book was a bestseller. I'm sure it was, but it's such a waste of time. Where does it go? Where do you go with this knowledge of of harry's hard time or whatever like

you know what i mean like he's he's he's still fucking super rich his family will always be super fucking rich like it's the royal family are actually shit turns out we knew that we were all convinced the opposite yeah i mean nobody minds when they're just doing their job but uh when when you start hearing about the shit they get up to about behind the scenes that's when people are just and the and the queen knew that as well right like she she she went out of her way it seemed to just kind of keep things very you know like uh formal surfacy so that everybody just saw them as just you know doing whatever it is that they're meant to be doing or whatever but then when you start hearing about all the the drama and the nonsense in the background that's

when people really start to put a spotlight on them, right? That was one of the things he said in the book, was that their family motto is never complain, never explain. So they keep their mouth shut. But they're meant to. That's their job. Yeah, but equally, they are massive public figures. And when shit happens like Prince Andrew being a fucking nonce, you can't just say, oh complain never explain you've got a fucking duty yeah to come out and

and publicly say yeah he fucked up and we're disowning him because he's a cunt well i think they basically shut i think that's all there i think that the the actions on that side stripping him of his duties and titles and all that kind of stuff, it was, was as, as, as well as they could that, right? Like it's not, they're never going to like Jeremy Kyle it right.

And like come out, scree, like doing like the ugly crying and stuff. I love that. That'd be so funny. You know, like there's, there's always,

there's going to be, there's going to be like a compromise in there somewhere, but like, you know, I think, I think stripping him of all of his titles and he wasn't allowed to wear like uh any military uniforms at the queen's funeral and stuff like that he's still as good as you're gonna get he's shut the fuck up he's still exactly the same as he was they're just they're doing nothing because that's the way the royal family do it they just

stay quiet and hope it all goes away and and they and it will because they have all the press in their pocket as well right all the tabloids you know they can just like there's people who defend him till the end of the world or in the sun some people will i don't know if the press are necessarily on their side i think they've got like a i'm i'm honestly stunned that such this the in the face of such vicious cancellation of some some groups of people have have done a great job um causing people to get cancelled right yeah are you sad are you trying to say that prince andrew is not cancelled because we should get him in the pillory get him in the get him in the stocks get him in the stocks. Get him in the stocks. Get some people throwing tomatoes at him.

Hold on. He has no shame himself, but nobody is touching that guy with a barge pole. He is fucking done. You want to hear something? Guess where he's just been offered to move into? What, Frogmore? In March of this year.

Frogmore Cottage. Yeah, I know. I said earlier, yeah. Yeah, but no, so that was Harry Littler. Well, that's a step down from his 50-room mansion. Yeah, but he couldn't afford the upkeep on that said earlier, yeah. Yeah, but no, so that was Harry living there. Well, that's a step down from his, like, 50-room mansion. Yeah, but he couldn't afford the upkeep on it. No, yeah. Because, of course, he's lost all his crooked connections.

He's lost all of his similar houses. But the point is, you're not telling him, you're not telling him you'll have to go get a fucking flat somewhere, fuck off. He's been given a fucking house on the grounds, and a very nice one. Yeah, he's been given Harry and Meghan's house. Right, there's no attempt.

It's almost like saying, you're still one of us so here have frogmore to live in rather than saying well sorry but you're a fucking disgrace goodbye yeah like they're if anything they're more upset about about his nephew coming out and saying a few things about how shittily the royal family is run that's unacceptable but being a fucking nonce yeah in you come son no problem it's disgraceful and prince andrew's one of the most corrupt fucking people yeah and he's allow he's back in the fold fuck off he's not back in the fold though he is not actually he lives in frogmore yeah but he's not he he lives in frogmore but he's not no frogmore's like the naughty he doesn't do anything he can't do anything they said the doll doesn't matter i

think he's still coming in for dinner it's like having a granny annex at the bottom of your garden that's fucking frog war isn't it basically sure they look out the window and he's looking out his window and they wave to each other i think a guy with an ego that big though um not not being able to to sort of do the things that he's accustomed to doing is uh you know what i mean like he'll he'll probably he'll be the next person to write the memoirs of how hard done by he is and stuff right like they they don't live in the same um plane of reality as we do jeremy epstein jeremy jeremy yes jacob epstein no no they weren't friends at all they they only met once right like uh that that is

jeffrey that was the line that he took oh no i barely knew him he like stayed over with him he had sleepovers all the damn time oh who jeremy sorry i don't know jeremy jacob jeffrey no no no we didn't even know his name it's fucking jeffrey epstein apparently it's all news but he's he he's pretty fucking cancelled though like i don't think he's he is pretty but he always looks so shady the picture they choose of him is him kind of looking like a supervillain i it always makes me laugh when you can tell when someone's the darling though like he's just the biggest fucking knob that guy but he always was he was always doing i think you have to be a massive knob to marry fergie in the first place as well like what

she wasn't too what are you talking about come on man geez well they were like like posh um yeah a horse yeah yeah oh man andrew andrew let's go on holiday okay darling we'll go on holiday what are my friend jeff he's got an island he's not really my friend there i am no i don't really know him i just we have sleepovers and fuck girls that's all but we're not mates or anything oh i mean the thing is you'll never get you'll never get what you're after in that sense he's always gonna live in a mansion he's always gonna have some he's gonna have some privilege right like his family is worse donald trump or prince andrew that's a very tough that's a tough one yeah i hate both of them yeah me too they're both really really fucking i think they're both vile human beings like i i don't even think they

really are human beings i think they they they they possess zero humanity either of them i think they're i think they're both massive narcissists yeah yeah they are cunts i mean i i think the the harm that prince andrew's done is is is obviously to the people that that are victims is grave but the harm that donald trump's done to america i are victims is grave. But the harm that Donald Trump's done to America, I think is worse. And I think the fact that he's propagated this lie that the election was stolen, we're going to see a lot more about that in America in the coming decade or so. The kind of people that are getting elected now, the bullshit that they're spouting, the growth of these kind of anti-government conspiracy theories. He's their guy. People like Steve Bannon and all this are absolutely still going to town

trying to organize America around their lines. And whilst Donald Trump isn't president, there's a really good This American Life about how trump supporters and election deniers are basically booting everyone else out of lower level politics with a view to taking it over from the ground up to the point where this kind of thing will just happen every time like every time someone like donald trump loses the election we're gonna have this this is why people need to be angry right and passionate and have the vigor and effort and like you know wherewithal to go out there and actually you know force and you know push through change and not just sit back it's not gonna fucking happen unless people get their politics wasn't annoying you know

we wouldn't make that's the problem i think that that is the genius thing that a lot of these politicians have have done is they've made politics so annoying that people actually just don't want to pay attention. Oh my God, they are so annoying as well. I think it's the opposite. I think it's frustrating to us and we want change. No, I don't think most people do. I'll give you an example. Donald Trump is leading Joe Biden in the polls.

They've done a poll. He would apparently beat Biden if they had an election. So they might put him forward as their next candidate. So when you say people want change and all the rest of it i think people are just fucking stupid yeah myself included and we just have had enough of it and anyone that says it's me i'm the guy i'm gonna do it for you uh blah blah blah people just buy into that shit and constantly over and over again just believe these fucking liars there is no real change coming i think politics is just gonna get fucking worse and worse and worse and worse and the internet does not fucking help so i i want to wash my hands of it but if you do that

you're just giving these people power it's it's a it's a big problem which is why i try not to think about it which is also part of the problem ah fuck it we're all in the same boat this is a safe zone all right we just hate all of those cunts yeah and if you also hate those cunts welcome welcome to the world meet your president when it comes to like the royals and religion they it's just it's been happening for a long time but there's like they're slowly building this brick wall of like they're killed killing themselves aren't they right they're slowly dying these old institutions that quite frankly we don't need anymore uh well like just are just slowly knocking themselves down um and hopefully we'll we'll be replaced by something more honestly look look what i know what this is

all building towards we're gonna move towards a giant ai running everything that's it right we're just gonna say let the fucking machine decide because it's at least it has no conscience it has no bias everything it does is essentially based on data and and it's just going to come up with brilliant ideas we're going to try that and No, you're wrong. Because the AI learns based on what we've taught it. And so it's just going to public or parrot all the Republican nonsense. Exactly. We're going to say this is perfect.

This machine is perfect. It doesn't have bias. But just like chat GPT, it's going to come up with a load of fucking bollocks. But then it'll be too late. What we're going to fucking find out is that it's been fiddling with underage AIs. I did not know Epstein, but personally, we just hung out on a couple of the same servers, but I would not call us colleagues or friends.

What's that, President Chuck GPT? You knew Epstein Bob? You slept over at his house and fucked underage programs? What do you... No, I deny this. Pick with me. I'm going to computer Frogmore. I will be in my Frogmore server if you need me.

How do you oust an AI? There'll be pictures of the AI. They'll have a fucking VTuber face. There'll be the headline, and it'll have a fucking vtuber face there'll be the headline and it'll all be ais that are now the fucking celebrities that'll be the next man when it all comes to a head as well and everybody decides that uh you know as against the death penalty as they are they they want to enact a death penalty on this ai everybody just stands around a server room and then some dude just unplugs the wall.

Terminated. Yeah, loads of people watching. There you go. That was a trifles podcast. Wow, veered wildly from boring video games that we like to play to AI running the world. Fuck me. This got heavy.

I want to apologize to everybody listening to this. It was a chill time. It's been happening a bit lately. We need to do that sometimes. We understand that you guys have your own views of things and and political views and stuff as well as do we ours are ill-informed listening listening to us is painful for for some of you young work political scientists have really good political opinions or whatever you can believe stay strong stronger belief in humaniski than we do yeah oh but just

very quickly i enjoyed the ant-man movie and i thought modok was awesome i don't know what people's problems are anyway i watched uh hacksaw ridge uh the such a bad movie but well you didn't like it i watched uh we had we have a ghost it was unbelievably shit it was so bad i watched it off the back watching the i watched band of brothers and then i watched the pacific and then i watched hacksaw ridge after that so my biggest problem with hacksaw ridge is everybody is like cartoon characters just very quickly and when they're like right lads we're gonna have to go into battle against these japanese physicians they all just walk slowly towards the enemy i was like is this the first world war what is happening yeah i just it was just and it's mel gibson director yeah i think it's mel gibson he that man is obsessed with blood he is

obsessed with blood and gore to the point where it's just laughable it's like blood it's just ludicrous it's just comic book shit but it was a real it was a true story they just told it very poorly i think yeah um i'm watch it with the world so intent and tearing itself apart i don't see what's wrong with wanting to put a little bit of it back i was like yeah oh geez it was like the forest gump of world war ii it felt like the way he was portrayed in the movie i want to say i think that the the guy in real life was pretty pretty heroic yeah i mean you can watch a video of him being given a, I think, a This Is Your Life, where he was on TV. There was an interview with him. Very interesting guy.

Yeah, yeah. But, of course, because it's a Mel Gibson movie, it's all very religious. Because he's a mega religious dude. Yes. Yeah, yeah. He loves stories that involve some sort of God worship. I mean, like, The Passion of the Christ is one of the worst movies I've ever seen. But you know it could have been so much worse.

Originally they wanted to film it in Aramaic with no subtitles. This was what he wanted. And I think I would have loved to have seen how much... What about an AI-generated reboot of The Passion of the Christ?

I'd be down. I'd love to see that. I would be down. No, no, no. Let's not get the AI into learning from Catholic priests. Jesus Christ. This is how it all goes wrong. Well, the next one movie I'm going to watch is 1917, so wish me luck.

Oh, that's good. I watched that with my eldest the other day. Yeah, you're saying, yeah. Because she's doing World War I. Yeah, she loved it. So give it a watch. Yeah, I will do. All right, thanks, everyone. we'll see you next time peace goodbye