Triforce! - Triforce! #57: Rats, Gnats and Fat Cats

Episode Date: November 15, 2017

Triforce! Episode 57! Lewis is the Rat King, Sips has been watching some great TV and Pyrion went on a safe driving course!   Music courtesy of Epidemic Sound. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Hello everybody and welcome back to the Triforce podcast with me, Lewis, and Pyrrhin Flax. Hello. And Sips. Hi. We've been away a little bit and around a bit. Yeah, it's weird to be back actually. God, we haven't spoken. None of us have talked for weeks now, right? It's been weeks.

Well, you went to BlizzCon. I did, yeah. How was that? Sips? Did you have a nice time? Yeah, it was good. I think it was probably the best one I've been to, actually. I really enjoyed it.

I think, like, announcement-wise, it was fairly exciting. Like, the announcements were pretty good, I guess. But, like, I don't know. I've been enough times now where I know what to do and what not to do. And, you know, it's good to meet up with people that i only see like once a year at blizzcon and it was awesome it was really really good i really enjoyed myself who did you go with was it just you and shin yeah just shin shin was over there already because he went to twitchcon with barry um they got to meet all of their streaming heroes and and that was nice. And then Shin just stayed on after and then met me there, and I flew in.

We met up, and we hung out all weekend, went to BlizzCon, and then we went home. It was really good. So what was your highlight? My highlight was probably the opening ceremony. We didn't watch it in the main hall this year. We went because they split the, like Hearthstone had its own hall. There was the main hall. And then Overwatch had the big arena, you know, where they normally have the StarCraft II stuff.

Yeah. So that big arena was an Overwatch arena. And so what they did is like the announcements. Every game had an announcement except for Diablo. But so the big announcements for each game were done in their separate areas. So the Hearthstone announcement was done live down in the Hearthstone area. But you could watch the whole opening ceremony down there. Right.

But then the segment about the game was done live down there. So we went down to the Hearthstone thing and watched the whole opening ceremony from down there. And then when the actual Hearthstone expansion was announced you know ben brode came out on the stage and and it was all live and stuff and did you see the new expansion did you watch the did you watch the fact it's going to be vanilla that thing no no uh for hearthstone there's a new expansion coming out uh next month and um it the the style they did it in was like uh you know like an old school like dungeon crawler that they're introducing this like this single player roguelike mode sort of thing

so the whole presentation was done like uh do you choose left or right do you want to go down the the do you want to go in the door that says you know certain death on it or do you want to go down the the tunnel that's basked in flames or whatever and then you know the audience he like put it to the audience to pick and like everybody just picked like the the obvious like treacherous ones or whatever but the whole interaction was amazing everybody was like screaming and going nuts and stuff and it was just it was really good it was really well done and it was just really fucking funny and stuff and that was good it was really really good it was a good weekend i enjoyed it immensely yeah yeah because like i i sort of didn't really feel like going after last time i felt like blizzcon was a bit of a bit of an overwatch centric event it felt like and they had become yeah like that was like a lot

of new people had come into blizzard and there was sort of a bunch of the old guard sure but kind of mostly new overwatch players and i'm not a big over there was sort of a bunch of the old guard, sure, but kind of mostly new Overwatch players and I'm not a big Overwatch player. I know a lot of people are and they're very into their Overwatch.

But it definitely is divisive. I think people don't necessarily play all Blizzard games. They either only play Overwatch or they only play Hearthstone or they only play WoW.

And I think that WoW is one of those games which you play WoW, you don't play other games it feels like. Although Duncan's been playing Destiny 2 lately because it was on the Blizzard launcher.

Yeah, I tell you what, that was a marketing masterstroke. Is it a Blizzard game? It's an Activision game. Activision. And Blizzard. I don't think Blizzard, didn't Blizzard buy back their shares from, oh, they brought back their shares,

Blizzard actually brought back their shares from Vivendi, I think. They were owned by Vivendiendi but I think they are still combined with Activision. We might have to Google that. Activision acquired Vivendi and through Vivendi acquired Blizzard but Blizzard, like you said, I think

Blizzard own all their shares so they're under the Activision umbrella but Blizzard still have just do what they like. They don't line own all their shares so they're they're they're under the activision umbrella but blizzard still have um just do what they like they're not they don't they don't like line into activision they don't have to do like anything they don't want to do sort of thing i think that's how it works yeah people are saying good things about destiny 2 yeah i bought it i'd say i wasn't going to like the night it released i was playing hearstone. I looked at my friends list and, like, everybody's playing Destiny 2. I was like, oh, well, maybe I'll pick it up and try it out.

Because, like, you know, if everybody's playing it, it must be good. And then, sure enough, it was pretty good. Like, I don't know, like, if I'll play a ton of it. But it's nice. It feels good to play. The gameplay is pretty nice. Like, it's, you know, visually, like, very nice. I think it gets a bit grindy near the end of the game which might be off-putting to some people but

me i i like a grind so so i don't understand what type of game it is though like a grind would you mean is it like is it yeah is it an mmo or it's it's it's an mmo it's it's kind of like an mmo it's like there's there's spots in the in the world where you stage like like the town if you like sort of thing where there's like vendors and stuff and that is you see a lot of people like in those areas yeah but then you sort of filter off from those areas into instances that you can either go into with teams or you can just go into by yourself and sometimes you go into them by yourself and you bump into other people um it said you could well what he said to me was you can complete the game

in six hours and i didn't really understand what that meant well you can you can level cap the level cap is 20 so like you go through you shoot things you get xp you loot stuff you know there's better guns and better armor and stuff and like stuff. And yeah, you could complete the game pretty quickly, but then there's an end game as well. There's raids and better loot and stuff like that. The problem I have with these kind of games is that it always comes down to getting better gear in order to get better gear.

You have to get this, and then you go and fight these guys, and then you do this. I never really understood what the long-term appeal of that was compared to something like like the mmos like when i played wow i played it to get to level 60 so i would have a chance to do those things yeah and once i'd done them i felt i'm finished like i have completed the game i don't understand why people like i've got to do it 30 times to try and get this shoulder piece, which is marginally better than the one I've got. I never got that.

I never understood that. I think Destiny 2 is the same. A lot of people will play it, get to the max level, do a couple of bits and pieces, and then they'll probably be done with it. But these other guys, there's more and more challenges, and there's probably leaderboards and stuff like that that keep people plugged into it and playing you know like eve i got it eve i understood because you you

there was no end game the end game is we conquer the galaxy and you're never going to do that but it's it because you're fighting other players you get animosity building up between courts and you're like oh man we've got to beat these guys and that here's the thing is the long-term draw i don't think anyone ever plans this right we're humans and it's a bit like taking drugs right you ask people why they take drugs and it's just like i do it because it feels good because i like it i don't know i can't explain it i just i just like it and there's certain things that that we're we're organisms that have evolved in a way that we have to survive in the world. And now we put into this thing where we're sat down in front of a video game. I've never thought about it this way.

It's super weird. I didn't realize that we were humans. I've got to say that came as a big surprise to me. But what I'm saying is that some of these games, I think originally, like in World of Warcraft, for example, the way it was originally built was that you would gear up in order to be good at killing other players. So you'd kill the enemies, the monsters together,

in order to get the very, very good gear that would let you kill the other faction and be really powerful and be overpoweredly powerful, right? So back in the day, your gear that you built, this is how MMOs worked before WoW too, you'd play the PvE game to be good at the PvP game. But the PvP in WoW was like... Going to PvP with your super was like, there was nothing. But that's the thing. Very quickly, people realized that PvP and PvE were very different things,

and people actually didn't care. People would PvE just to get the good gear and show off, and they didn't want to do the PvP part of it. They didn't need to. And in fact, the PvP people felt like they didn't want to do the pve bits they just wanted to fight other players they didn't want to do that so it ended up diverging into two very very different end games the pvp end game and the pve end game yeah and and and that it's just an evolutionary thing of the game has evolved and to scratch the itches

that we we that we want. Any game, any book, any story, you get to the end of it. What's the point? You've read a load of words. It's not about getting to somewhere. It's about the journey. It's about having a nice place to live.

World of Warcraft especially, like Flax, you were saying you wanted to get to level 60. Everybody does want to get to level 60. That's the point. The point of the game is to get there, I guess. And it's a fun thing to do. But depending on the guild that you're in and that was the thing for us we were in a good guild with a lot of people that we liked hanging out with so even though we got to level 60 there was always something else to do and some of it was not like achievable instantly but

you wanted to hang out with the people in your guild and you would just log in every day and sometimes i would log in and just literally run around stormwind and just chat to people in guild and not do anything you know what i mean like it was like a it was just like a visually um nice to look at chat room yeah basically at the same time this game has a subscription fee it wants you to come back it wants you to keep playing it's there's not an end there is there's built in to be not an end it's like it's like if a movie has a cliff fee, it wants you to come back, it wants you to keep playing, there's not an end. There's built in to be not an end. It's like if a movie

has a cliffhanger at the end to set up the second movie because they want you to come back and pay to see that one to find out what happens. Or, you know,

it's a TV series, doesn't end because they know they're coming back and they want to get people watching the next series, they want to get funding for it. So they deliberately don't end.

They keep dragging out this thing to string people along because that's how they make money and they're profit making and it doesn't matter as if you're enjoying the experience but i think that sometimes people um don't realize that this is what's happening and so they get sucked in to this this thing they get they get trapped in in the games like too many people i think play games too much and and the point that they don't enjoy it anymore and it feels like a chore yeah um and so you have to be hyper aware of that with games these days especially when they're when there's there's loot boxes and things like this you have

to be kind of kind of you have to be careful not to be sucked into one to be one of those people who spends an insane amount of money on a free game sure but um and doesn't really get anything out it's you know because it's not it's time and place though too like we're older now we're like you know like back when i used to play wow i was in my early 20s like i had a job and stuff and you know i didn't have any other responsibilities other than than that so i had a lot of spare time and that's how i chose to spend my spare time now that i have a lot less spare time i don't spend my time doing that like i'm just saying that like there's other things to do like i think that for example with with something like uh wolfenstein right or doom those games have sure they keep bringing out dlc every year or new new expansions or new new

versions of them but at least when you play wolfenstein 2 which is really good by the way um you know it's over in the 12 hours that you play it yeah it's it's over in the 12 hours and then you can move on and yeah and that experience is codified and and cut down and it's like I think it's more like having a movie and going to see a movie that's going to be over and yeah there might be a sequel yeah compared to watching an ongoing TV show. Playing WoW is like watching 12 solid seasons of The Sopranos and enjoying the mall sort of thing. But it's a much bigger investment. I was going to say EastEnders. EastEnders, yeah, that's it.

Yeah, EastEnders, you're right, never ends. But there's so many little addictive hooks that keep you in and hook you in. Of course, of course there are. And kind of in a way, for me diminish the experience slightly by nature of giving you that addictive quality. I don't know. That's my personal feeling on that. Anyway, these games are very addictive.

Beware of them. Yeah, but on the flip side of that, something like Diablo, which is meant to be just as addictive doesn't have enough of those hooks to keep people playing it. That's because it's not greatly well designed though. I think that if it was more aggressively designed, it would be very effective. And I think that we will, you know, I feel like with games, we've talked about this before a little bit, but I see it as a thing

which, you know, the things that do well are the things that are the most addictive. You know, it's like the most popular drugs are the ones that are the most effective at making you high. Cripplingly addictive, yeah. Yeah, because they're the ones that will sell the best. It's not rocket science there. You donpplingly addictive, yeah. Yeah, because they'll sell the best. It's not rocket science there.

You don't want the ones, you know, have you ever played that game Contagion, I think it's called, or something. There's a game where you have to get a virus that spreads around the planet. Oh, Pandemic. Play Gink. You can't get the one that kills them in 24 hours.

You want to get the one that lasts a month so they can get on a boat there's no symptoms it's like shit themselves silly on the boat yeah you want to shit on the boat you want them to shit on the boat yeah they've got to shit on the boat it's the same with drugs shit on the boat you have to have a balance it has to keep them alive long enough yeah to right i Right, I get it. I get it. I remember reading one of those news stories

about those cruise liners that set sail and everyone's all happy and they're ready to have a good time. And then they get like halfway around the world or wherever they're going and everyone starts shitting everywhere. Yeah, that happens a lot on cruise ships apparently. It's so scary.

And then when they get home, they have them like offshore, like they're too smelly to dock. They just keep them there for a bit while they keep an eye and i guess some people go out wearing hazmat suits to make sure that it's not a horrible plague that's gonna kill everybody and they're totally shit they got the power washers and they just give them a good old hosing down and just imagine that as a holiday you're on this ship everybody's sick and shitting everywhere and puking and everybody's miserable and they're poking at you with hazmat suits like in the the bit in et where the guys come and put the the plastic over the house and start looking for et it's like that

shit what a fucking holiday and they're all on that boat everybody's on that boat shitting themselves feeling awful and they're playing wow as well and you know they're all blaming each other they're like it was that guy looked a bit sick when he got on i reckon it was him he wasn't me i'm just pasty i don't go over that right it's always one guy who's poorly paid overworked doing the food right cooking the food and he's like i can't i'm sick but i'm gonna have to go to work so i need the money and he goes in and he's not very well and he sneezes on all the food or whatever or maybe he doesn't maybe maybe he does his best but that's how everyone gets sick he's not very well and he sneezes on all the food or whatever or maybe he doesn't maybe maybe he does his best but that's how everyone gets sick he's shitting a lot and some of his

particles reach the food yeah through his through his polyester pants or whatever i think it's also the water the closed water systems that they have yeah can sometimes go awry so you've got these tanks of water and and stuff like that bacterial beat yeah stuff gets in there like that's how lead is it legionnaires disease that's how legionnaires disease gets around yeah apparently it's something to do with like uh water being sort of like um like left out in the sun sort of thing for too long or whatever like yeah i thought that was some rats some dude died like last summer i think um, from Legionnaire's disease. Let's have a look at Legionnaire's disease.

He'd had like their garden hose. It came down to their garden hose was filled with water and it was left out like in their backyard for like weeks. And apparently the conditions were like perfect for it to just breed inside the water, inside the hose. And then, bam, he went to like water the garden and like accidentally drank some or something and then he was like dead a couple of days later oh my god yeah so it's just naturally found in fresh water yeah scary but i mean i don't think it can kill

you unless you are like weak weakened by like yeah i mean he was he was older like he was like in his 70s or whatever so maybe he was just like you know it overwhelmed him took control of his mind body and soul and that was it happens a lot because there's like i went to bath uh the baths baths bar and there's like a big um you know the big baths there yeah the roman baths and um they with they they don't let you swim or touch or go anywhere near the water because it's got this um amoeba in it. It's like the brain-eating bacteria. It's called brain-eating amoeba. And I'm like, what the fuck is this?

But it's like a real thing. The brain-eating amoeba gets into nagleria fowleri, it's called. Right. And it gets into sources. And once it's contaminated like a source, that's it. It's unremovable right so they can't get it out

of this thermal bath in bath it's just they're forever what a shame so nobody can enjoy like a nice fucking

soak a warm soak they could but they wouldn't remember it in six months time is the problem no after their brain has been eaten

and stuff fuck so I think a bunch of kids like died of it it causes like meningitis like symptoms I think a bunch of kids died of it. It causes meningitis symptoms. I think if you get it, that's it. There's no cure as well. You're like, you just fucking die.

It just eats your brain. God damn. Well, that's not how I want to go. There's a couple of ways that I'd be quite happy with going, but not that way. Not that way. No brain eating. Oh, shit.

Thanks. Yeah, eating. Oh, shit. Thanks. Yeah, talking about rats, they say that you're never like 10 meters away from a rat or whatever, don't they? In London anyway. Yeah. I don't know if that's true these days. Most big cities I would assume that's the case.

Certainly like on the one hand, I've heard that the amount of biomass in the earth, I mean biodiversity is decreasing as well, but like generally biomass. So for example, like I live in Clifton, right, which is this sort of slightly nicer area of Bristol. Oh yeah, what's your address? I live in the basement of this place. And I got an email yesterday from the estate agent. And he said, let's read it actually. I'll read the email because it's kind of worded in a way

that is quite annoying. So it says here, hi Jen, Steve, the painter has just alerted us to the presence of a rat. As we are dealing with an issue of public health, urgent action seems to be required. And it says here. What are you going to do? It says here, the rat was probably attracted by a recycling box left by my landlord's tenants outside their front door, implying that it was my fault, right? That the box of cardboard

left outside my front door was the source of this rat, right? Like I've caused some sort of rat infestation here. It just shows how up is like this is like the ancient greeks used to think that animals just sprung from the ground like they didn't understand that that and insects and stuff like that just appeared i can't remember what they called it but they thought that they didn't realize that animals that were very small

became bigger you know they just thought insects just spawned right they didn't realize about the whole life cycle of animals and stuff and it's like people thinking if you put rubbish out a rat just is beamed down from the mothership in orbit oh pizza box with a bit of cheese spotted send down rat number 584743 slash b7 on my way commander they beam him down and he finds the cheese and someone's like oh my god God, the rat invasion has begun. No. They fucking, they're there all the time.

You just happen to see it. That's it. I'd be more surprised if there wasn't a fucking rat down there. Christ. Like, I'd be more worried about that.

In the house, I understand. I'd be leaving like plates of cheese out and I was, you know, I was hoping to get some round because I've been missing them

I'm thinking I need a pet you know I'm a bit lonely down here get rats in yeah it's fucking you live in a city or you live anywhere

there are rats in the countryside people think they're in the city you go to the countryside you see all kinds of fucking animals out there and rats are one of them I remember I was sitting in London

outside the cinema waiting for some guys to turn up and I was in one of these like parky square things outside waiting I was there in London outside the cinema waiting for some guys to turn up. And I was in one of these like parky square things outside waiting. I was there for about half an hour. Anyway, I was having like a McDonald's chips. So I was sat outside of McDonald's basically on this square. And there was these bushes behind me. So a little wall, a circular sort of bush going around the square.

And so it was like a circular bush and then like grass in the middle. And obviously like shops and stuff around the square. So it was like a circular bush and then grass in the middle and obviously shops and stuff around the outside. Anyway, I looked around and I saw this movement out of the corner of my eye, as you do, when you see a spider, a massive spider, run across the floor or something in your place. That happens all the time to me. In the basement, I get a lot of critters. Anyway, so I looked around and caught this thing.

And it was like a whole family of mice. It was like daddy mice, mummy mouse, and like three little mice. Like doing, just running around this like circle and like nibbling on all the bits of obviously McDonald's rubbish and stuff that people leave in there. And I wasn't freaked out by it. I was like, oh my God, that's so adorable and so nice. Like to see like animals actually you know in the wild

it was cute it was nice I don't know they might have been rats actually rather than mice but anyway they looked they're just living

their fucking lives man they're just trying to get on they don't understand why food is wrapped up in paper and stuff they eat all the discarded bits of McDonald's burgers

and stuff you know what that disturbs me about modern life is that especially you get a lot of people, like I consider myself someone who's concerned about the environment.

I don't want to die in a flaming ball of misery and pollution and everything like that. I was surprised even Michael Gove, arch-arshole of the universe, Michael Gove is in The Guardian today saying, we've got to do something about the bees. We've got to ban neonicotinoids, Fertilo, all that stuff, all those pesticides and everything. They've got to ban something about the bees we've got to ban neonicotinoids all right uh fertile all that stuff all those pesticides they gotta ban them they have to ban them because he's

killing the bees and he's killing all the other flying insects we've got to sort this shit out i'm like wow me and michael go over green something fantastic yeah he probably just doesn't have he probably just doesn't have shares in the company that produces it so he's jealous there's no money in bees you know what i mean so? So he's not involved in the honey companies. But as it is, that's something I can agree on. Everyone can agree on that. A lot of people agree with that, but they see a fucking rat, they shit the bed.

Guess what? That fucking rat and his family has probably been living in that area for generations. A generation. Just living their fucking life. They do a job. If you ever see bits of food in the street, you don't. You know why? Because Ratty McRaterson and all his little ratty buddies take care of that shit. in their fucking life they do a job if you ever see bits of food in the street you don't you know

why because ratty mcrattison and all his little ratty buddies take care of that shit you think the street sweepers are out night and day yeah all the garbage no rat friends trust me they have a lot of friends as well in in high places literally because the rats of the sky seagulls are also helping them clear the streets of just about anything they'll literally fucking eat anything they will it's honestly it's the the bubonic plague was a disaster for rat pr and they've never recovered they've never recovered i mean i i think that they're they're pretty pretty cool rats like sure i'm sure they i'm sure they spread disease man i don't think that they're cool actually do you know who else spreads disease human fucking beings and we still let them walk

around don't we yeah they do it all the time they go on a cruise ship and they spread their diseases to each other and they're shitting on a boat yeah fucking constantly it's i just hate the double standards people are all oh i'm gonna save the polar bears and they're like oh there's a rat no they're your friends too they deserve life we just happen to build a city where they would have otherwise been living you got to get along you got to get along man come on you got to get along they can they they're hard-wearing rats right they can live in like really atrocious conditions and they yeah they'd be able to survive long past humans like becoming extinct oh yeah they'd fucking love it

if we became extinct honestly well they would not not now they're spoiled now because they get all of our that's true they get all of our scraps and our poops but they'd love it for a while and then they'd be like you know what it was fucking good when those idiots were around chucking mcdonald's french fries in a now yeah now they don't have anyone chucking mcdonald's stuff on the ground so they they gotta eat berries and stuff they gotta go back to basics they gotta go back to nature did you guys you guys watch blue planet too have you watched that show uh it was on the other day and we watched like a bit of it but not not all of it oh man i fucking love that show i've watched

like all of those uh the bbc nature documentaries that are just mind-blowing. This is like the pinnacle of technical documentary making. The techniques that they use, the technology, the camera people, the lengths they go to to get the shots and everything, it's incredible. But it's all the little facts that Attenborough chucks in that you think, what? He'll chuck three mind-blowing facts at you in the space of like two minutes. Like in the last week's episode,

they're deep, deep, deep under the Arctic ice, right? So there's like, not the Arctic ice, but they go down the side of this iceberg and they're like a kilometer down and they land in this mud. And he says, this mud, which is made up of the snow that rains from above of tiny particulate matter of organic stuff

lands here and forms in some places a bed of mud up to a mile thick. A mile thick of just organic sludge that's just there. And then he says

and this organic sludge covers around 90% of the planet. You're like, what the fuck? Like 90%? And then he's like, he hits you with another fact. You're like, what the fuck? Like 90%? And then he hits you with another fact. He's like, here at this coral,

underground coral thing in the sea. I can't remember what he called it, but it's that. It's a coral thing. And he tells you, first of all, this coral, he shows you a little tiny bit of coral. It's like waving very cute and sweet. Coral just waving in the currents of the ocean.

Very slight current it grows about a hair's breadth per year and then it pans out and there's a coral the size of a fucking bus and you think and he says this one is probably about 4 000 years old so you're like shit there were people building pyramids in ancient egypt when this coral was just a little nubbin on a rock and now here it is is 4,000 years later, this majestic coral. And he just chucks that at you. And you're like, what do I do with this information, David? Where else can we go from here?

And then he says... Go on, Dave. Yeah, he's like, guess what? 90% of all life on Earth exists in this area, like under the sea, this deep sea area. 90% of all life on Earth is deep sea. Like, we're just, we are the scratch on the surface of life up here on the surface most shit is happening in the ocean deep down i was like holy shit attenborough you blown my fucking mind once again and i'm trying my kids are like dad why are you saying wow i was like a mile of organic sludge girls can you

believe it and they were like how big is a mile i was like oh shit i have to relate this to them and distances and scales that they can understand you know how far school is from your house yeah imagine that times like 50 like wow man they're like how big is that i'm like yeah all right this is this is tough so it's amazing it's it's hard to explain but yeah they don't get it fish They love to have sex with the coral. Right, changing the channel, girls. Let's watch something else. They put their little fish sticks into the coral.

And for every one of them that has sex with the coral, one of them must die. It suddenly goes very dark and sacred, doesn't it? The ultimate sacrifice. I mean, there was a fucking show we were watching the other day with the baby seals. And they're looking at the baby seals seals and they're marking the baby seals with paint and my kids are like oh look at the baby seals and they're like but tragedy struck next

week and i was like brace yourselves and a storm hits the island and mrs f was like girls go in the kitchen and the lady's like some of these pictures may be distressing we're like run to the kitchen now so they run to the kitchen and there's like there's all these shots of these dead baby seals who we've been we've been seeing like a week later the seals are like their little brains are smashed on the rock and they're like yeah this is this is this is nature kids and i was like all right girls you can come back now like i just don't want them to see that you know i mean they give them a few years yeah god damn it's always like that's the problem with these documentaries like it always suddenly takes a

dark turn doesn't it because nature is pretty fucking cruel and brutal they love to chuck that shit out so that's yeah so i've been watching the apprentice okay on oh god it's still going it's still going the uk one the uk one yeah? The UK one, yeah. It's still going. It was just something, it's just something every once in a while, my wife watches it all the time, and she's like, you want to watch it with me this season?

I was like, yeah, okay, sure. The Apprentice is one of those things that ordinary people, ordinary UK people, when they come into the office and they work around the water cooler chat, the equivalent of that, they talk about The Apprentice, they talk about Strictly Come Dancing,

they talk about Bake Off, right? Oh my God, though. Fucking shows. Fucking The Apprentice, they talk about Strictly Cup Darts, and they talk about Bake Off, right? Oh, my God, though. Fucking shows for all people in the UK. This is so frustrating to watch, though, because I don't know what is going through these people's minds, like, ever. They're so fucking dumb. Holy shit, they're stupid. It's crazy.

If they were dumb, but you felt like they were there as part of a learning experience or they they were humble and they were like yeah no that's something i need to improve on yeah but they're like no mate i'm the best salesman in history and i can prove it and you're like what they they they do everything they can to like cushion the blow right like they like you've got video evidence of a guy saying something and he's just denying it. He's like, I never said that. I said this. And it just makes it sound a little bit better than it is. Right.

And that's all. That's all it is. It's just a little tiny bit better just so he doesn't look like a complete steaming moron. Right. Yeah. But like you just rewind it like five minutes and he just literally said that and it sounded just as bad as it sounds like being brought back up to him. he's just denying it he just he just flat out denies it you just think oh for fuck's sakes like come on you you know and all these people are come from business

backgrounds too right like they're not kind of it's not it's not just people pulled off the street who you know have never like run a business or anything. At least these people have built a business or something, right? So you think they have some experience. And I get that some of the tasks are out of their comfort zone or to do with industries that maybe they know nothing about or whatever. But they're so simple. It's just fucking common sense, right? Oh, my God.

It's infuriating to watch. To just say something about that point. It's the same thing in politics and business. It's just a thing. It reminds me of that fucking song from ages ago by Shaggy, It Wasn't Me. It Wasn't Me. And so it's like, it was definitely you,

but all you've said is it wasn't me. And that's enough to get you off, unbelievably. It's fucking crazy that is like the confidence to just just lie even in the face of overwhelming evidence oh god okay so often just gets you through it's like poker like you know you just you just bullshit people enough even though like sometimes they're showing you that they haven't got you a good hand and they're just saying i've got you i've got you beat and that's enough often just to fucking convince people so it's unbelievable so the one last night okay the task was they had to go to bruges and they had to do like a a tour of the city any kind of tour okay of the city um for people on a cruise ship okay so so they went

on to the cruise ship they had to sell 16 tickets to people on the cruise ship to go on this tour okay and they had to come up with the tour uh and and and you know take people out uh the people if they didn't like the tour they could request refunds so like it affected the bottom line sort of thing uh and then there was opportunities uh in and throughout for them to maybe make some additional money through like selling some like souvenirs or something right yeah and like a couple a couple of them are clever enough to like to think outside the box and and that and it's it's interesting to watch them right but so the other ones is like oh god so one team decided that they were going to do a historical tour okay of bruges none of them know anything

about the city okay so i don't know why this was the idea and then they nominated one person to become like the expert to know like about some of the sites that they were going to go to and she didn't have a fucking clue and she was just like oh you know i really struggle with historical facts and stuff i'm not like i'm not going to be good on this. And the person who was in charge was like, no, no, you'll be fine. You're funny and stuff. It'll be great. And then they got lost.

They actually got lost. And the people's faces that were on the tour, I had to look away sometimes. It was so fucking embarrassing. Oh, my God. Why would you do a historical tour? It's so stupid. And you're not even Belgian. I know. embarrassing oh my god why would you do a historical tour like it just and you're not even belgian i know this is uh a building quite an old looking building judging by

the uh what does that say it's quite old that one isn't it look at that everybody take a picture of the old building what is it let's go inside and find out i thought this was a tour a guided tour god and then at the end they're like okay we need to get like we need to buy some cheap souvenirs and like sell them for more to make some more profit on top because at the end of it they're judged by how much profit the whole thing is made right so ticket sales um souvenirs and whatever else whatever other scheme that they've come up with to make some money sort of thing so they go into like this crappy souvenir shop and they bought 50 key rings and they were just fucking the worst key rings you've ever seen okay

and they put them all into like a plastic bag and they were just going around the boat after and they were trying to sell these key rings to people and it was just like holy shit like just get me on the show i would i would do stump shit like that no problem i'd happily be on your show like oh fuck's sake it was crazy like it's just nuts i can't believe they just don't all get fired like it's you know you know what you were saying about how they have a business background here's my thing with that right a lot of fucking people consider themselves business people or entrepreneurs and what it means is i'm a bit of a wide boy and i've i sold a few used cars and i've got my nose in a few shitty businesses that are going to crash and burn like

most businesses do if you were a fucking businessman and you were as good as you say why aren't you out there doing it why are you on a fucking tv show with alan sugar why don't i mean this they should go on there and be like this this is what I want to do, and I've got some big ideas, but I haven't got the capital to get it started, and I need some guidance and experience, and I really want to do that, and I think you'd be a good guy to work with. But second of all, why the fuck would you want to work with Alan Sugar?

I've used Amstrad products, and they're fucking garbage. That's a personal opinion, not shared by the Oxcast, I'm sure. But let's be honest, the Amstrad home computer back in the days of the Commodore 64

and the Spectrum the fucking Amstrad was the worst my mate had one it was like a shameful thing to have the Amstrad CPC as opposed to

the Spectrum or the fucking Commodore the 64 was solid man it was it was he just sells this shit to other shit companies, right? So he has these business dinners or golf course meetups with other CEOs who are like, yeah, we need to order some new phones for our entire company.

All of our warehouse is full of underpaid, you know, phone, annoying phone ringers or whatever, you know, harassing phone call guys need new new phones let's i'm ordering 2 000 if you're you're fine do you know what i mean it's like it's like it's all idiots yeah it's just fucking assholes 2 000 it's all these stupid shitheads you know who've somehow made it to the top through sheer luck yeah but they it's all set set up boxes for like digital tv and satellite tv a lot of those were made by Amstrad, and they fucking suck. If you've owned one of those set-top boxes a few years ago that crashed all the time, didn't fucking work,

miserably slow menu, horribly small hard drive, probably made by Amstrad. They're just junk. It's junk. And he says as much. He says, I just make cheap shit to sell. I just want to sell a lot of it. Like, that's their whole angle is, no, it's not the best, but it's fucking cheap as chips. Like, that's his whole angle.

Having said all of that, though, this is our perfect segue into introducing our special guest this week. We got Sir Alan Sugar on the show today. At least Alan Sugar is somewhat self-made. He started with nothing. He was basically Del Boy, wasn't he? Yeah, he was. He started off with a stall selling electronic goods. I mean, that's the thing.

I cannot hate the guy because he is what he is. That kind of makes him at least somewhat respectable as opposed to some of these other people, I guess, like Trump, for example, who inherited a vast fortune. I mean, he's the absolute rags to riches tale, right? But the thing is, I don't know why you'd want to work with him.

That's all I'm saying. I'm a self-made man. Brilliant, go for it. I think the whole apprentice caricature of him is not too far from the truth. Oh, no, that's him, yeah. But I don't know. I think they make him look a lot more confident in the Apprentice. He's always been this Del Boy, white boy, like, a-hole.

You should follow him on Twitter. He is fucking unintentionally hilarious on Twitter. Amstrad, you know Amstrad comes from his initials, right? Yeah, yeah. AMS Trading, yeah, yeah. I've initials right? Yeah yeah. AMS Trading. I've read his fucking biography mate.

It's hilarious. You have? Yeah I've got it somewhere. I can't remember what it's called but I bought it because I love

the character of Alan Sugar. It's not a character it's just him but he's one of those guys the problem with people

who've done that self-made I had nothing and now I am is they never stop fucking telling you about it. Like they're fucking obsessed with how successful they are and how fucking great they are

and you should suck their dick because they started with a stall selling CDs and now they're making a billion pounds a year doing it. It's like, yeah, all right, mate. We get it. You're a successful businessman. You're still an asshole.

I don't care. Being an asshole's got me where I am today, lads. You know what I mean? And when I'm driving around in my fucking Mercedes Benz, you can think I'm an arsehole. You're like, that's Alan Shiggy. Yeah. Just be nice, you know.

Don't be a dick. And all the people that work for him, they're all scowling, miserable people, grey faces. It's like, God, why would you want to work with those cunts? They seem horrible. I know. Oh, God. I'm glad we got the C word out, because that's just all I'm thinking about. phase it's like god why would you want to work with those cunts they seem horrible i know oh god i'm glad we got the c word out because that's just all i'm thinking about like watching these shows like thinking like this whole experience is just it's just so awful no wonder we play video games

all the time oh god fucking get addicted to video games just don't try to get because i think i prefer doing that than when i watch these fucking tv shows, man. It just stresses me out so much. Well, hey, listen, though. On the topic of TV shows, I watched the first season of Mindhunter. And that shit was fucking awesome. Yeah, I like that. I quite enjoyed it. I liked the David Fincher camera angles.

I liked the sort of slow burning, but also slightly kind of dark undertones of the whole thing. I mean, I feel like... but also slightly kind of dark undertones of the whole thing. Yeah. Sort of. I mean, I feel like. You got to hit that pussy before it turns into mom. Fuck me. Fuck me. It's so fucking dark. Holy shit.

Oh, God, the interviews with the serial killers are so good. Yeah. I didn't realize. I didn't realize. Like, I'd never heard of Ed Kemper, but he's a real guy, and that all really happened, which is fucking nuts. All those guys are real guys. Yeah, yeah.

I didn't realize. My mom watched it. She said, oh, I hadn't thought about those names in years. But yeah, they really, like Richard Speck, that was a big one. I kind of feel like it's really interesting. One of the things they said was that the nature of those crimes is a reflection of some change in society. I don't know if it was in Mindhunter,

if it was an article I read about Mindhunter and about how... It's a lot about, yeah. That was the theory at the time, right? Yeah, the police hadn't faced this before. Where the fuck is this coming from? I don't understand why people would want to kill other people at rant. Yeah, that's it. They went from operating on motive, like pure motive,

and it was always like a jilted lover or like, you know, there's always a reason for a killing. There's always someone the victim knew. Yeah, there was always a motive. And I think there had always been like sort of serial killers, but they just never, it was never frequent enough for them to bother classifying it or getting behind it or whatever.

You're trying to figure it out. And I guess this whole show sort of explores that side of the FBI where they finally decided, like, hang on a second. There is definitely some psychology here to be considered. And there's patterns. So sorry, this series is about... I love how we all know about it we were just diving in I'm sure everybody's

watched it though it's like really highly rated everybody's probably raving on about it give us a summary Lulu just for anyone who hasn't it's set in like

the dawn the late 70s the dawn of criminal psychology and profiling of the first what they call originally

I think they call them sequence killers they coined the term serial killers in the show which is quite quite nice and profiling of the first, what they call, originally I think they call them sequence killers. That's it, yeah, right. They coined the term serial killers in the show, which is quite nice. And it's got some sort of, I don't know, it's got the classic kind of grizzled detective FBI agent and a young righteous guy.

Yeah, like Bill Trench is fucking awesome, isn't he? He just wants to go golfing. He's smoking everywhere. He's smoking on the plane and stuff he's like yeah perfectly cast it's just it's excellent it's really cool it's really nicely done this sort of late 70s with they capture it perfectly they really do back in the days where you could literally go to an airport and just get on a plane like it was a bus or a train or something you know you didn't you didn't like have to go through yeah that lax attitude facilitated so much cocaine entering the United States in the or a train or something. You know, you didn't, you didn't like have to go through hours of security stuff.

That lax attitude facilitated so much cocaine entering the United States in the early 1980s. Like it was insane. It's crazy. Like I think the way airports almost felt like a hotel. Like when you check in,

you just have to fill out that little form and show some ID. And they're like, right, off you go. It's like the same kind of thing. They're all nice and happy to see you. And there weren't that many people flying flying that was the other thing that people forget is that flight was just not like a common form of travel no it was like if you were fairly wealthy and going on holiday you know i mean a lot of americans still to this day don't have a passport

and travel overseas they travel internally but even then you know people took the greyhound bus and there were trains and stuff and the greyhound bus and there were trains and stuff and now flight is so cheap and there's so many airlines competing with each other the price has gone down my god that you can just do that but back then i mean jeez i remember flying when i was a kid the airport was never as busy as it is now now it's always fucking busy oh and every flight seems to be full like every flight seems to be fucking full i'm like it's a tuesday morning why are there 200 people on this plane like where the fuck are they going i know where i'm going where the fuck are they going i'm the only one that matters here fuck it's just like when i'm driving i'm driving it's like 10 o'clock on a sunday morning and the roads are full i'm

like where the fuck are you all going well this is this is exactly what it's like i constantly think that as well there's so many people in the fucking home i have to be here you don't yeah what the fuck are you doing yeah that's my first thought it's incredibly selfish but i'm literally like where the fuck are what are all these assholes doing on the fucking road go home jesus yeah gotta send out a memo to everybody that you're going to be using the road so that they can clear the way. I would love to have that power. Just going to be, I just tweeted out. I just tweeted out, driving to Bournemouth this weekend.

Fuck off, everybody else. Stay off the fucking roads. Everybody stays off. I want a clear journey. I don't want any traffic. I don't want to get stuck. I just want to go from A to B. Well, I'm driving to Bristol on Monday.

I'm driving to Bristol on Monday, I'm driving to Bristol on Monday, but it's not going to be till the evening, right? So I'm going to be driving down like 8 o'clock or something like that. So I'll get down there pretty late because I've got to wait for Mrs. F to get home, and then I load up the car and everything, and off I go.

So that should be great because sometimes driving to Bristol is wank, like it's just busy. But what I used to do when Babby Flax was a tiny Babby and we were having the loft redone so we'd have somewhere to put her, the house was completely torn apart by the work that was being done. And Mrs. F was on maternity leave, so she took tiny Babby Flax and lived down in Bournemouth for like three or four months or something like that.

And I stayed up here working. I think it was like three months. So I've stayed up here living in like the building site of our house. And when I finished work, I finished work at about midnight and I would drive straight down to Bournemouth in my Saab 9-3, which was just the best car I ever had.

And I would be able to drive down to like an hour flat, like just foot to the floor all the way down. And the only thing I would see is trucks, like postal trucks that's it just carrying the post not a single other car and that spoiled me because now that's all i expect every time i get in the motorway i'm like this is just going to be clear run all the way and it never is it never it's really satisfying when you do get a clear road though and you're just like oh there's nothing like it you drive like you you don't have anyone to gauge your speed

against though uh and sometimes you drive a bit too fast i that was in those days i drove much too fast i i went on it i got caught um speeding one time unsurprisingly uh when i was i was down in kent and they pulled me over and they like i was driving along at like 40 because i thought it was like country roads but i was still in the town by like half a half a mile that the speed limit stayed because there were there were houses behind this big row of hedges you couldn't see the houses because of the hedges but this copper suddenly appeared like a sniper with the gun from like behind the hedge and i was like oh fuck he's got me signal for me to pull in and he was like all right sir just wish to caution you i have using the laser weaponry that I've got here,

detected you going at 40 miles per hour in what is a 30 mile per hour zone. Now, I'm cautioning you. And I was like, yeah, all right. I said, yeah, well, I did it. I fucking admit it was me. The exact same shit happened to me. And they made me go on a course. Oh, did they?

They said you can either have three points on your license and a fine, or you can pay to go on an anti-speeding course and i was like well fucking go on the course then so i go i had to go it was like a full full three or four day course in ealing and mrs f had to take the week off work because like it was right in the middle of the day oh god she took a week off i had to go to this course it was a pain in the ass to get to and you have to sit there in this classroom for like two hours like for three or four days a week and they lecture you about how shitty a human being you are for speeding and everything like that but the thing is the guy was nine points on her license and she had to go on a

course she was like almost because if you get 12 then you're you're fucking yeah but here's the thing lewis that that's interesting your mom getting caught speeding because we were in there and the instructor made some really, really interesting statements. In a David Attenborough style I should now blow all of your minds. I shall now blow all of your minds, okay? Number one, the average age of the people in that room was like older than me. There was a lot of old dudes in there and some older ladies in there and like I was one of the youngest people in there.

Were they all road rangers? With speeding, with speeding with speeding they're all you think it's gonna be all like people were sort of smoking like kind of but it's not it's like your mum it's literally right little old little old ladies you think would be like you know not tearing around the place exactly they're the ones it's that those older guys especially doing the fucking drink driving oh i've been doing it my whole life there's no problem my dad used to do it and like no problem we'd go to the bar and i'd say how are we getting back it's like i'm gonna drive i was like you've had like four beers he was like everybody does it around here it's like what else we're gonna do get a cab and they were like laughing i was like please yes

let's let's do that but that's how they are like the older guys like i'll speed if i want i'll drink drive if i want who the fuck are you to tell me but he said the safest drivers we've got are young people like young young people 17 to 24 25 are much much safer statistically than older drivers with all these fucking years of experience which i thought was really interesting well it's like a complacency thing i guess no i think it's just a change in attitude like our approach when we're teaching people how to drive now is a lot more about the younger the new drivers are in a lot more accidents though right no i don't think that's why the rent that's not rent that's why the insurance is so high no it's just people you know it's because you've got all the no claims right so there aren't that many accidents for one thing

right there the road traffic go our roads in the uk are the safest in in europe right and i'm way safer than america literally every time i'm on a motorway in the UK, there's an accident that's like causing traffic delays. Have you been to America? I always thought it was like teen drivers were like twice as more. I don't know about accidents, but a lot of those would be things like inexperience at driving, but not necessarily speeding, not necessarily drink driving,

but things like skidding, taking a corner fast than they should, not responding to stuff that's happening, like stuff like that. Those might be accidents caused by younger drivers, but a lot, lot less of them are speeding. Hardly any of them are drink driving. And I just thought it was really interesting. Like he was literally saying, you are the fucking guys who've been caught speeding right here. He said, this is not an uncommon sample. It's almost all older people getting caught.

It's not all these younger kids. They're not the ones driving like maniacs, which I thought was really interesting. But the fact our roads are much safer, younger people have been brought up with this whole culture of you do not drink and drive. And alcohol is the number one fucking cause, I think after tiredness or it's tiredness, alcohol then tiredness,

tiredness and alcohol, one of the two, of accidents, right? Drinking is a fucking disaster when it comes to driving. So when you're driving down the motorway, you'll often see like a caravan at the start of the road that's had an accident or a car's gone into the back of another car or whatever. But that's more like traffic rather than bad driving. That's just fucking too many cars on the road. Everybody's just not paying attention. That's the problem. Whenever I go to the States, I see i see fucking oh my god one time we were driving to the airport it was raining so bad visibility was about 10 meters all right just rain was that heavy we're driving along and my dad's

laughing because he can't see he's just like this wind screw up to go full speed we literally cannot see he's just laughing because it's so ridiculous. And we come around this corner and the weather clears a tiny bit. And there's a fucking car on its hood, like upside down. Oh, fuck. On the grass, just down this little embankment. The guy obviously just missed the corner, gone straight off the edge of the road, just flipped the car, was just lying there, like still steaming because it had just come off the road. We were like, holy fuck.

There's a dude that's just been flipped upside down. It is amazing how blind people are I saw a car flip upside down One time Like I Go on you tell your story in a second I completely Understand that mentality right

Because when I was driving home all I wanted to do Was get home and I didn't care Weather's terrible who cares I've got a car I I'm on the road. I'm in a modern world. Nothing bad can happen. But honestly, I know that I understand that psychotic mentality of just not waiting five minutes for the rain to let up.

People just, they don't think. Just fucking driving like a lunatic through the most dangerous weather conditions ever. Because people just think they're invulnerable. Being inside like a ton of metal, you know, behind a windscreen, you know, makes you think that you're... I think sometimes driving a car, at least when I was driving, sometimes didn't feel real.

It felt like playing a video game or something when you kind of detach yourself from reality. And it's also fucking boring, man. Like it is boring. Motorway driving, you're just... You just turn the wheel a tiny bit. It's's like it's like there's nothing to it at least in the town you know you're having to slow down you stop and you're alert and stuff but on the motorway or if you're like on a bike you know or like a motorbike even on a motor but you're much more aware i'm

sure yeah you're outside essentially way more dangerous yeah you're traveling at 70 or 80 miles an hour outdoors like i'm indoors in my car you're out you know i was saying my car like fucking doing like 100 on the motorway and just like and i like not really aware of like what i was doing which was you know rocketing along what you're doing a ton of metal anyways what what was the story about a car flip it over in front of you so I was like 12 and we were driving to Toronto. And in Canada, you've got like... So it's like 16 hours driving. Yeah, well, it's like six hours from Ottawa.

So it's a pretty long drive. In Canada, you've got like in the cities, you've got like big highways, like the freeway type thing that you see like in America or whatever. But then out like in the in the countryside, you've got these, they're like the equivalent of like a roads, right? They're like, two lanes, one way, two lanes, the other. You can drive like pretty fast on them. I think the I think it's like 100 kilometers an hour speed limit or whatever. And, you know, they're just they're just meant for you to get like from city

to city sort of thing, you know, like they sort of bypass like like a lot of towns and stuff. So we were on like this road driving like fairly fast. And there was like two cars ahead of us. And then like the the second car like ahead of us, ahead of like the one directly in front of us, I mean, was like this pickup truck. We were just driving along and we were just chatting or whatever and then all of a sudden this this truck just like veered off to the right and then flew up in the air like it was crazy it was like really surreal like it felt like time just slowed down flew up in the air and like flipped over into like the into the ditch so we like stopped and like this

is before there were cell phones and stuff somebody had to go find a pay phone to phone an ambulance and stuff. And we were waiting around like for the police to come so that we could say like what we saw or whatever. And it turned out that this guy just like I think he just had a stroke or something at the wheel. And then that was it. It's just like, boom, like right off the road. And then, yeah yeah flipped over like i think he was okay actually surprisingly because it was like the car was like fucking completely upside down and flew up like into the air pretty high because like on the side of the road there was like a bit of like um it wasn't like hedgerows

but like there's like a little bit of a almost like you know like a ramp of grass or something yeah and so it just doesn't take much right because he was going pretty fast he just like went flying and um it was just really fucking surreal but like it just shows how quickly things can happen like all that all that need to happen is that guy briefly fell asleep and lost control or like had a stroke or was like drunk or whatever but like yeah it's pretty fucking crazy scary so so by the way i just looked it up we're actually we're actually third in safety in the this is in the world by the way wow with 2.9 road deaths per 100 000 people in 2015 that was that's pretty fucking good now beating us into sorry i thought

we were first i thought we were first in europe at least but sweden is marginally better than us with 2.8 deaths per 100 000 to our 2..9, so it's pretty fucking close. The number one safest place in the world to drive? The Federated States of Micronesia. Sorry. Who fucking cares? Basically us. Where there are no cars. Yeah, literally. That one tractor killed 50 people last year. It was a disaster. Incidentally, by the way, I saw Jersey in the news this week.

Oh, yeah. Don't. Don't. How do people on Jersey feel about the fact that Jersey is a tax haven for Apple's $250 billion of cash just sat there? Well, I mean, it's not new news. Panorama sort of make it out to be like, oh, we've uncovered. I mean, literally the industry over here has been built around this for like 50 years yeah so it's not like it's not anything new like there's obviously a lot of people with a lot of money squirreling it away here and in other tax havens

the thing is the the big the big uh repercussions of this though is that there's a they're circulating and compiling like a black list of non-compliant tax havens okay right so and jersey's fairly confident that it's not going to be added to that because it is very regulated over here they've got a lot of regulation they've got they've got a surprising amount of transparency as well and in like the past past few years at least in the past i think five years or so, the American government sort of requested access to records over here and in other jurisdictions as well, tax havens, so that they could see where American companies were squirreling away money and avoiding tax because they were having so many problems with it. So I don't think it's as bad as they say that it is. I mean, there's obviously some moral lines there. Like, you know, there's a lot of money potentially not being put back into the tax system. But equally, you know, they're talking about guys like Lewis Hamilton, who was like, you know, dodged like a $4 million tax bill on a private jet that he bought or whatever. But, you know, he's still paying tax.

He hasn't avoided all tax. Like he has to pay income tax at some point. He's going to have to pay some corporation tax at some point. Like, you know, not all of his companies are based in Jersey. Here's what I don't understand, right? I can't, if I'm an employee or even a self-employed like I am in this country, I cannot just say, hey, my business is located in the cayman islands so anytime i get paid anything you know i'm working at mcdonald's oh yeah please forward my check to my bank in the cayman islands

it's like what why should i not be able to benefit from that system as well if everybody did it it'd be fair but there'd be no tax tax paid. So the fact that these massive companies, I mean, Apple is, by the way, the richest company in the fucking world. It's still not enough. No, no, no, no, no. We have to hide all our money. Why the fuck can I buy something from Amazon?

It's 100% legal, though. That's the thing. For Apple, it's a no-brainer. You hire two guys. Absolutely. You say your job is to make us money. Put it in Luxembourg. No, make us legally pay the least amount of tax that we have to pay. Right, exactly.

Okay, all we need to do is set up a load of shit, these things that are totally legal, 100% legal, because they're just loopholes. And bam, we pay 3% tax instead of 50% tax. Right, but to me it's not a loophole. Why wouldn't we do that? If I buy something in this country and it's delivered to me in this country, I should have to pay fucking tax on that.

And the guy that fucking made it and made the money, he should have to pay tax on it. I understand that. Like ethically and morally, it's 100% right. But it's easy not to because it's legally not a problem. This is the problem. I think that we're in a situation where the richer you are, the less tax you pay.

Yeah. And it's always, it's kind of bullshit, but it's a systemic problem. But the other argument is that rich people pay most of the tax in this country.

They do. Of course they do. Because it's percentage-based. Exactly. But I think it's like 70 so exactly so but like i think it's like 70 people who don't earn money in this country are not paying any fucking tax so their feeling is we already pay enough why should we have to pay more that's the way they see it but i mean the thing is if you look at the underfunding and everything i hate that phrase though that rich

people pay most of the tax that seems to me me to just be bullshit. But also, rich people have 97% of the wealth or something, you know, of the global wealth. Right, right. Yeah, if you have that much

of the wealth, surely you should pay 97% of the tax, right? If you have 97% of the wealth, I don't understand how, sure, you're paying,

what, 51% of the tax, but having 97% of the wealth feels wrong. Yeah. So, no, I don't agree with that. The argument that a lot of people make about the tax thing is, apart from the fact of saying, oh, well, we already pay most of the taxes anyway, is, oh, it's perfectly legal. And it is. You're right. It is.

And I think that should change. I think it should change. But the thing is, the reason these papers are important, my mates were like, how is this news? And like Sip said, it's an open secret. Everybody knew it already. You know, everybody knew people were hiding money offshore. But now that we can name them and actually point to them and say,

it's that guy, that's pressure. It does put pressure on people. And eventually, as names start to come out, we can actually really examine this. And, you know, once it becomes a fixed thing in people's minds that these people, that guy over there is actually doing this. This is how much he hid. Maybe something will be done about it when it's just a nebulous idea that, yeah, we know, we know. But what can we do?

It's much harder to motivate people, I think. When it becomes like a PR thing, that's when they that's when they'll actually do something about it. Yeah, because they don't want to look bad. Like they know that it's not great. And then when people find out about it, it looks terrible. So they scramble to like, you know, fix it or, you know, they'll probably announce in a couple of weeks that they, you know, are fully compliant and that they paid this much tax and they rescued 20 baby seals from a sinking barge one time. And, you know, like they'll do everything they can to sort of like gussy it up and make it look better than it is or whatever.

But yeah, there's definitely some moral lines that like people need to think about. It's a problem. Yeah. And I think the anger of people will get on top of it. But it's a little bit like the open secret thing. You need to just get that in the open. Like look at Kevin Spacey. It was an open secret that he was gay in Hollywood and stuff.

And I don't know, like open secrets just have to be acknowledged and then suddenly it spirals out of control. That thing is so weird. The whole Kevin Spacey thing is bizarre. Like I don't even I there's so many questions for me like about you know the stuff that's coming out and the fact that like House of Cards

is potentially axed now off the back oh it is axed no it is it is fully axed for fuck's sake and there's a film that comes out in six weeks and they've edited it so that his entire part in the movie has been replaced by another actor yeah i'm wondering i'm wondering if it's good i think christopher plumber so i'm wondering if do you remember that episode for the fallout boy episode of the simpsons where the editor says it's all right we can do it all in

post and he cuts it all together and there's a shot where he goes i think they are creeping up on his fallout boy and it cuts to a shot of millhouse just in a normal room sitting on a stool he just goes yes like is that gonna be what they're gonna do with kevin spacey's honestly i don't know i haven't read enough about it so i don't know all the ins and outs like i don't know if he's a dangerous pedophile or or what like it i mean but what i did read was that apparently he was at a at like a massively cocaine and alcohol fueled party and was, and invited like a 14 year old boy to this party. Yeah. When I was 14,

I was not going to cocaine parties at like barely even alcohol parties either. Like it was, you know what I mean? Like how, how did this 14 year old get into the situation where he was being taken to this party? I mean, if I don't know the details of it, I would be love to be invited to this party.

But you wouldn't want Kevin Spacey sexually assaulting you at that party, would you? I think is the problem. Well, I know. Yeah, but did, but was there, I mean, I don't know. Maybe I won't say anything because I don't know all the facts or whatever. But, like, I always thought Kevin Spacey was a pretty good actor and stuff, and I'm just surprised by all this. But the classic problem here, Sips, is that there's no smoke without fire in some of these cases.

Right. And, like, you know, this is like a bunch of other people have come out to say, yeah, Kevin Spacey did creepy sexual – He's a creepy guy.vey weinstein thing right heavy harvey weinstein was this serial sexual predator basically and the classic what you expect to happen in hollywood right it's like you know you want to get a job in my film how about you suck my dick it's like literally that i mean it's not yeah that's a that's a thing right people like sleep their way to the top it's not. Yeah, that's a thing, right? People, like, sleep their way to the top. It's such a stereotypical, horrible thing that's been reigned in Hollywood. But it is a thing.

Like, there is a lot of desperation in Hollywood, right? Like, you go to L.A., like, and you meet people in L.A., and you're like, what do you do? And they're like, oh, I'm an actor, but I'm bartending and stuff. And, like, I'm sure that these people do things that they wouldn't normally do to try to get parts and stuff like that i think it's pretty well documented actually that this kind of shit happens but is it right that's the question is it right it's not right it's not right no and there's a lot of these horrible predators out there and the problem is is that it's difficult to come out with it because if you're just if you're an actor and you want to get a job you don't want to spend ages going to court

or accusing some big-named guy and get yourself blacklisted. The whole culture, unfortunately, is one of silence, which means that it needs to be broken down and people need to be able to speak out about this stuff and not just falsely accuse people either of anything because then it turns into some sort of witch hunt where it's like, oh, she's a witch, he's a witch, blah, blah, blah. out about this stuff and and not just falsely accuse people either of of anything because you know then it turns into some sort of witch hunt where you know it's like oh she's a witch she's a witch blah blah blah it needs to be it's really tricky but the whole it's tricky yeah the whole

fucking the timing of it isn't ideal either because some of it seems like you know some of this stuff happens like decades ago and then and then finally somebody speaks out about it and i guess maybe you know like i've never had to like endure the trauma of like uh sexual assault or anything so maybe you know maybe i always just think that you know if something bad happened to me i would i would probably speak about it almost straight away you know what i mean like like if it if it was if it's really bad or like you know i mean we think we think we would. I'm sure most people think they would. That's what I'm saying. I think I would, but luckily I've never been in that situation, so maybe I would be ashamed.

I think this stuff does stick with you for a long time and doesn't heal quickly, and I think that people are affected by these assaults and things for their whole lives. So we do need to, like, it's such a difficult subject. Did you guys see, you know this Preeti Patel, right? The cabinet minister,

I think she was a foreign minister, right? Or minister for foreign development or something. She goes out, she's done this thing that she shouldn't have done where she had these meetings without revealing them. Essentially, she was having meetings

as a minister of the British government without telling the British government she was having these meetings. That's a problem. She's on her way way back she's going to be fired when she gets home because she's on holiday or something she comes home she's at the airport there's fucking a billion press camped out there and then they're all shouting the british have been fired click click click click click click click she gets in a car and they're driving it straight to number 10 to get fired by theresa may no doubt and the bbc has a fucking helicopter following her car down the motorway with live shots of a car on

the motorway as if we couldn't imagine a car being driven by a human being on the motorway to another place we gotta have live shots we go now live to our chopper in the sky over a motorway watching a car it i mean it's fucking ridiculous yeah it's so dumb we are sounding like dads now with this political 24 hours news is the worst it's so bad like the problem it's it's everything is is very inflated it's such a difficult topic too and it's so easy to task someone's name or or these days you know everyone is keyed to post accusations you know as news stories to and and you know but but they're not keyed to post retractions when it turns out that john ronson wrote a book about it didn't he john ronson's book so you've been publicly shamed that's very interesting which is about exactly what you're talking about so

if you people are interested in it read that and this has been going on for over an hour my friends this is uh friends wow yeah chums i mean i may live to regret you know appearing to support kevin spacey because again i don't know enough about it okay i don't i'm just saying so take everything that i've said about kevin spacey with pinch of salt because i don't know all the facts okay it might turn out that he is like the most prolific sexual predator of our time it's tough and I will I will definitely not support him if that's the case okay but because I'm just saying like the films that he's been in no no but and and also I'm very aware I'm very aware that that there is a lot of like hoo-ha made of stuff like especially relevant stuff you know because all the Weininstein stuff was

has just happened and everything it's relevant to that sort of thing you know it's everybody's going to be on this like you know um you know sexual assaults in hollywood sort of you know thing now and everything and i i just like i don't know some some of it feels witch hunty but you know what again i, I could be wrong. Let's catch the bad guys. Let's catch the bad guys and not tar all the regular folks, I think, would be a nice thing. Oh, by the way, one final thing. You guys, you've watched Curb Your Enthusiasm, right?

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Right. You know Larry David's friend, Jeff, his chubby friend, Jeff, right? That's his name? Is it Jeff? His manager, yeah. My mom thought that was Harvey Weinstein.

She was like, oh oh he was so good in that Kirby Enthusiast I was like which episode of that was he in she was like he's his friend he's in it all the time

I was like no man that's like a completely different guy he was so funny she was like I can't watch that show now no and that I was like it's not him

unbelievable that is actually really funny oh that bombshell yeah peace out everybody thanks for listening we'll be back next week for some more until then stay safe stay frosty go fuck yourselves and um good night don't drink and drive yeah and don't flip your car on the highway either fuck right we love you. Bye. Goodbye.