Triforce! - Triforce! #66: Fatal Attraction

Episode Date: May 2, 2018

Triforce! Episode 66! MonkaS! The guys struggle to understand emojis, relationships and more!   Music courtesy of Epidemic Sound. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Hello, everybody, and welcome back to the Triforce podcast With me and Sibs and Pyrrhim Flax Coming at you live and unchained on 26th of April 2018 Hey Lewis, I lost my dildo, where could it be? Are you tired of losing your dildo every five seconds? Well, try the new JML Dildo Tracker. That's right. Never lose your dildo again.

Proudly sponsored by dildos. Hey, I always lose my dildo, PFLAX. What about you? Let me tell you something, Lewis. I stopped losing my dildo some time ago. Thanks to, what was it called again? Dildo Tracker. The XLMS.

Co.uk forward slash um triforce podcast so never lose never lose your dildo again i lost my dildo deep inside my my number one bays bunghole number one can't find it for days god damn if it wasn't for dildo tracker dot html i would have gone to work with this thing in my ass. I didn't realize it was up there. Thanks, dildotracker. Do you find yourself using street language like number one? I consider that to be the young people's language of today.

It's not street language. That's the new nerd language, isn't it? It's like dumb internet language. I don't think people use that in real life. I think it's cool. I think it's cool. All the Twitch memes and the emotes and stuff. Do you not think all the cappers and stuff?

I added some new emotes to my channel recently because people were complaining. I've subscribed to BTTV, which is Better Twitch TV for anyone that doesn't know. And it's like a website that adds a load of extra stuff into your Twitch channel. So you can subscribe to BTTV for like three bucks a month or something and you then get access to a bunch of emotes. Like all the popular ones like Monk Ass and Pepe Hands and all that kind of stuff.

The people, for some reason, they fucking love to use them and some of them are pretty funny, right? So I think it's interesting that the acronyms or the names of those emotes have now become things that people just say. Like, we were talking the other day about something, and someone said, oh, man, MonkaS. And MonkaS is like Pepe looking really nervous, right? Yeah.

And I thought, can we not just say I was really nervous? Like, people have languages being compressed into what single word or even syllable yeah can i can i use that expresses an entire emotion oh ellie jiggle oh yeah exactly well so bade was something my friend said for a long time so bade i guess it's because you can't see the faces of the people that you're talking to right and so like sometimes when you know i'm sat in a live stream room or something playing a game or next to someone you know they'll sometimes look at me sideways and you know and it'll be like a visual message right and i think that you could do that with emotes that you can express this kind of very specific like you know like nervous face without without having to say

i feel nervous right now yeah well that's the thing there's no you can't convey emotion or anything over a chat room right like that's always how did we manage on the phone then phones have been around for a hundred something years you can hear the tone of voice and stuff yeah but they're always a little bit formal as well. Like, even this conversation, because you kind of have to, you kind of have to, sometimes language is always limited, okay? Like, the context

and complexity, it's massive. You know, it's like in Italy, you know, you can't learn Italian without learning all the hand movements, for example, you know, because Italians gesture

and gesticulate and do this wild stuff. And it's very important when you actually see Italians speaking that you also see their hands because it's part of the language. And that's because the more complexity, the better, really, because it helps you to convey exactly how you're feeling. If you're seeing someone talk and they've got this expression on their face,

then you think, okay, I can understand way more about what's happening here, I guess. You don't even really need to talk sometimes sometimes you can just do gestures and facial expressions and that that's enough right we could just talk entirely in emojis that's right we can just do real life emojis to each other serious face serious face smiley face you know you that the no the knowing look i like the knowing look you know that the the knowing look is such a, it's such a, like an artful facial expression, isn't it? Because it just, it just clicks, you know, like something happens, you look at somebody and they give you that look and it's, and it says a thousand words.

So that's how I think that's my problem because I don't know anything. So I can't do the knowing look. I try to do the knowing look and they're like, he doesn't know. Oh, I can picture you doing the knowing look. The unknowing look I've got. The knowing look and they're like he doesn't know oh i can picture you doing annoying the unknowing look i've got the confused look i can do confused real yeah the unknowing look is a good one too you know like harry you know a beautiful barry boy he says ruffle sometimes instead of laughing he'll just say ruffles i think this is a man who spent too much time in twitch chat ruffle he'll say and i'm like was it funny because you're not laughing you're

saying ruffle yeah but that's more of a kind of like cynical kind of yeah it's become a kind of cynical way of saying like ah you know something like this you know you know what i see the other day my six-year-old uh was actually ruffling like it was that like adults don't do that no but if kids find something so funny they'll fall on the floor she was rolling on the floor and laughing and i thought this is the actual ruffle this is where and i'm thinking where from people people type ruffle far too casually because i saw it in real life and let me tell you something most times when people type ruffle i don't actually believe that they're anything like as close to that kind of hysterical laughter that she was uh she was in well and i'm gonna have

to do that lol was that was the was the original right that was the first that was the first sort of like internet shorthand back when the internet was i remember every year and when people typed lol i think they actually were lolling i always type ha ha ha i try to avoid me too i still do yeah i i still it's a habit thing. It's not because I think I'm too cool to use lol. I just, I used the internet before lol existed and I used ha ha ha instead sort of thing. Yeah, I think if I've actually laughed out loud in real life,

I'm never going to write lol. I'm going to write, you know, ha ha ha ha. But I thought that lol was reserved to laugh out loud and there couldn't be any other meanings. But people use it to say lots of love as well. Like my mom does. And I think older people on Facebook use it. And it's confusing sometimes because there'll be a post on Facebook that says somebody's died.

And then you'll see like a whole bunch of replies saying lol. And you think, oh, my god, these people are brutal. This person's died. But actually they're saying, we're sending lots of love to you or whatever. It's weird. I don't think that they're allowed to do that. I don't think they should be allowed to do that.

It's LOL, laugh out loud. It's always been that. Don't try to change it. Find your own new thing. I'm terribly sorry to say your nan's gone into hospital again. Lol. Lol. From mom.

It's a classic. It's confusing. I don't know. I'm sure that there's words in the English language that both mean something terrible and delightful at the same time. I can't think of any of them off the top of my head, but it's very confusing. And I think that there should be some police policing done.

We should have it. Can be good and bad, right? Like you can call someone a pussy or you can say, man, this pussy is so good. Pussy's got a lot more positives than negatives though. Like pussy cat. You call someone a pussy. I mean, if you ever like old people tend to refer to,

like, do you remember Mrs. Mrs. Slocum, whatever her name was? Mrs. Slocum from Are You Being Served? Oh, my pussy is ever so hungry. You know, and people were like, what? And laughing. Because she's literally just saying, my vagina really needs some cock right now. But she got away with it by just saying, oh, my pussy's, he came in the other day, my pussy was soaking wet. And the audience would laugh.

And I'm thinking, I feel like nowadays people would say that it's just smutty. But back then it was meant to be like innuendo. But that's not really innuendo. She's literally just saying my pussy is wet. Like it's kind of ridiculous. It was lazy. But I think that it's a kind of, that is a bit of a joke of that she's out of touch kind of thing with modern lingo. And I think that those jokes are always going to work.

I think what you end up finding is when you get a community of people who speak the same language, if you like, they're going to, you're going to understand what monk ass is and stuff. And you're going to, you're going to understand. And it kind of what it does is it acts in a way to stop other people from entering that group necessarily. You know, they're going to have to, they're kind of not one of your clan, if you like. necessarily you know they they're they're gonna have to they're kind of not one of your clan if you like do you know what i mean it's it's not exactly hiding it from a police or anything um but it certainly kind of helps to form like this kind of companionship

amongst people because i think everyone is is does well on twitch they type a lot of emotes and and you know they know what these are it's it's it's not a bad thing do you think like gifs are like another thing that you mean yeah um let's not do this again giraffes pussy is an interesting one pussy is let's stick to that an awkward one to say in certain contexts right yeah you wouldn't say to your oh, I can't wait to get up in your pussy tonight. Like, because it's awkward. I think you can. You never say that.

I think you can. I think it's a funny thing to say. And it's awkward to hear it too. But when you say it in that really flat way, it's so funny. Oh, hey, honey. It's awkward to hear it too when people are talking about, oh, you should have seen her pussy and that's awkward too if people say that and then in porn as well when the when women are like oh my pussy

and stuff it's again awkward super awkward but i have no problem saying the word pussy to describe somebody as a pussy like say don't be such a pussy like it it doesn't bug me at all i don't feel bad about using that word at all in that context but i feel tremendously awkward using it in pretty much any other context i think most of the other only time i'll use it is is is ironically sort of thing most of the most of the words that we have for describing uh the vagina right the vajayjay there are very few that are sexy like pussy is probably the closest we've got and i know some women that hate that word yeah you're not gonna i mean if you said i mean it depends on the the kind of sex you want to have

if you said to me i want you to destroy my cunt right now right if that was i wouldn't want that one either but i mean, some women would go for that. Some women would go for that. But it's not hot. It sounds gross. I'm not prudish or anything, but I just don't want somebody... I wouldn't say, like, want to touch my cock. I wouldn't describe my dick as a cock either. Like, it just sounds...

How would you describe it? Just call it my dick. I want to play with my dick and my balls? Would you like to touch this object in my pants? Would you like to engage in some sexual activity with my penis? We need a good phrase that you could say. Like, I just say, do you want to have sex? Like, that works for me.

Yeah, that's true. Well, again, I genuinely think it is, again, like you said, it's different with everyone. And I think it's how comfortable you are. And I think if you could, like, a lot of this is, a lot of it is fun anyway, right? And if you're going to, if you're hanging out with people who know you, and you could pretty much say anything in a joking way to someone who knows you. And it's not going to, they're not going to think you're serious.

But sometimes maybe you've got to get serious and you've got to pick your right words. Yeah, because let's say you're a barber girlara girl and you want to say i mean you could just say hey would you like to come back to my place and have sex you could say that and i guess if she wanted to as long as you didn't say something too stupid like i want to get all torn up that ass you know something like that and she'd be like that doesn't really seem appropriate coming from you and in this setting since we're, you know, at a dinner party. I mean, you need to find the right approach. Do you want to come back to my house so I can break your ass like dishes?

Stick my ram right up there, tush. You want to lull this cannon? You need to find the right way. How many sexual encounters have been turned down at the very last second? Just as that final hurdle of saying hey do you want to come and have sex yeah cool let's go how many have fallen down based on the choice of phrasing yeah i think i think those encounters are falling down all along that road though there's gotta be you know there's gotta be these you you know when you talk to someone

and they say something and it's like oh that's a bit of a fucking red flag what the fuck right but that's the thing sometimes those red flags don't come up until really late. Sometimes you'll know someone really well, you'll know them for years, and suddenly they have an opinion that you think, holy shit, I didn't know this person at all. I really thought I knew this person, and now it turns out that I don't because of one thing they've said.

Like if I'd had a friend for years and they suddenly say... I think that's usually when they've got a polarised position to you. The people you like tend to be people who agree with all of the things that you think. Or enough of them. I seldom agree with you guys. Imagine if someone just suddenly said they're a flat earther and they always have been. You'd be like, what? What are you talking about? And they'd be like, no, no, it's a conspiracy, dude.

The Jews run everything. You'd be like, oh my God, this never came up. And now it turns out that this person is crazy. The Jews run everything. You'd be like, oh my God, like this never came up. And now it turns out that this person is crazy. The Jews run everything. Holy shit. Jesus Christ. That came out of nowhere. Well, I mean, I suspected.

But seriously, like imagine if you were at a bar and you know, you're getting on great with someone and they ask you to have sex and the way they ask you is so fucking clunky that you're like, oh man, this was going somewhere. I think there's definitely a point that you could cross where you're probably in the mood to hear anything though you know with just like the promise of sex and the excitement around like a sexual encounter and

stuff you know if they turned around and they're like yes let's go do it but sorry in advance if my pussy stinks a bit you'd be like oh whatever let's just go let's fucking go let's get let's get this done with but yeah i guess it's i think women are more on edge than men though i think men are like fucking we'll do whatever but i think women are more like kind of they're very much like i think they're always thinking that you're going to be an axe murderer or they're going to get like you know maybe yeah like tied up in a dungeon or something you know i think they're always a bit and so they're always looking get tied up in a dungeon or something. I think they're always a bit... So they're always looking for any red flags.

It's weird. It's probably a good thing. Holy shit. The difference between men and women in what men find attractive and what women find attractive, those differences are always really interesting too. We'll be walking down the road

and sometimes you're walking down the road and you know you you know sometimes you're walking down the road with your wife or your girlfriend and you'll see you'll see a woman walking towards you and she's dressed very provocatively right but she doesn't always look that great it's just very provocative clothes you you know, or lack of clothes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, but sometimes my wife will say like, oh, did you see her?

I'll be like, yeah, yeah. And she'll be like, do you find that attractive? And I think like, I don't know if I do. Like, I think my dick thinks, yeah, that looks okay. But in terms of actual attractiveness, and if I was attracted to this person and wanted to enter into a long relationship with them or whatever, I don't know. You know, like sometimes you see somebody and you think, oh, shit, I would love to spend the rest of my life with that person. You know, they just look like nice and wholesome and stuff. But I mean, here's the thing. I mean, we're saying that

it's married dudes yeah and you and me have been married or with someone for a long time so when i see a woman i'm thinking yeah how i wonder what she'd be like to be married to but i mean if you're like 22 and single you see or or you know maybe you're older than that you're thinking i wonder what that would be like to be married to what is strange but i do sometimes wonder that when i see other women i think i wonder what she'd be like to be married to. I wonder what she's going to be married to. I do sometimes wonder that when I see other women. I wonder what she'd be like as a wife. What fabric softener she uses. Fabric softener.

I wonder what kind of dishes. Is she good at doing the dishes and cooking? I wonder if she makes a very mean macaroni and cheese. I wonder if she can mend a torn bit of clothing like a knee. I've been looking for a good wife. I hope she has a good family. Do you guys know what I mean, though? I hope she has a strong back with which to till the land.

I think men are definitely attracted to things in women that are different to the reasons. We try to imagine that women are attracted to the same types of things, right? Like men not wearing many clothes. Are women really attracted to that or is it more of an emotional thing? I feel like it's a more emotional thing. Do you know what I think the thing is? Because most men aren't chiseled and good looking and stuff, right? Most women, to men, obviously just for the sake of clarity, we're all talking about heterosexual stuff because that's what we know.

Please also understand that we have all got no idea what we're talking about. Yeah, this is just a laugh. We're just having a conversation. You don't need to fill Reddit up with some comments and some fucking bullshit. So just shut up and listen.

All right? Okay. And you might learn something, you youngins. Yeah. Fucking listen up. Jesus. Got a combined, like,

90 years of experience here. Right. So fucking, we are one grumpy old man What if you want to post on reddit at length about it? Just do you you do you just go for it? Yeah Flax or my down is ready. I tell you that I'm just gonna hammer that down button I'm gonna get all my many Russian bot accounts to down vote you as well. So good luck Thank you great. So here we we go you were saying like do

women want to see men not wear much i think the thing is most men generally speaking when i'm walking around i'm looking at other dudes you know when i see them and i'm like most of them are not in great shape you know they're like no they've all got dad bods they all look destroyed by life don't say like a lot of them are massively henpecked as well. That drives me. I hate that. I hate seeing a henpecked guy. What's a henpecked guy? How do you spot one? The guy that's just shambling along behind his partner, holding all the bags and doesn't say anything.

His head is down. He just looks like some sort of weird slave or something. I hate that. Let's come back to that complex question. So you're walking on the street with your your wife and she asks she sees this hot woman coming along and she says to you you know do you find that woman attractive and that question you know she might as well put an emo on the end of it because we need to know what she actually fucking means without seeing her face without

seeing like because that question it's a fair question i've asked the same thing you see a guy that looks a bit like Brad Pitt. Oh, yeah, I do that all the time. Some asshole. And you say, like, do you find that guy attractive? Like, because I feel like I find him attractive a bit. And I'm just curious if other people agree sort of thing. It's not a jealousy thing.

It's not a trap or anything. I'm just trying to understand what is an attractive dude. Because I find it hard. Like, I'll see a dude that I think, I'm sure Mrs. F would like. Like John Cena looks like an attractive guy to me. He's a big guy, nice guy, great body and all the rest of it. I'm sure Mrs. F would like John Cena. Oh no, he's much too big, much too muscly.

And I'm thinking, I don't think dudes are that picky. Genuinely. I don't think men are as picky as women. I think guys just want to seize anyone in a bikini or something. Yeah. Possibly stripping. As long as she you get a reasonable face she can wear what the fuck she likes i don't care and also for men i feel like it's not even

it's it's it's partly that but i think more so as well it's the it's it's women appearing to be very available or like being like really up for it sort of thing but not but unavailable unavailable especially in london if you go up north in in the uk i'm sure it's true every country's got a region i'm gonna say the women are looser but they'll chat to you they don't have a stick up their ass in london and a few other places if you even talk to a woman she's like get the fuck out of my face if you go i mean we went out to manchester right a whole bunch of us and the girls who just started chatting to us at the bar they're like oh hey where are you that's from you're from Bournemouth blah blah blah chat chat chat and there

was no assumption that we were hitting on them we were just having a chat with them but in London and places like that if you talk to a woman you don't know in a bar she'll assume you're hitting on her or she won't want to talk to you it's my mates my single mates have found it much much harder to get girlfriends in London than in other parts of the the country like easier parts of the country I didn't I didn't want to put it that way looser parts of the country yeah I know I know when the pussy flows free like the land of milk and honey nice but yeah there's there's an attitude thing I think there is that question though the hemp act guy yeah right his his wife is asking in that question you know do you find her attractive with the with the underlying underlying message like you find

sandra at work attractive i mean no sex for you for a month exactly for looking at this woman you know there's there is this stereotype of that though right yeah but i think that's born from like uh lack of confidence in your relationship and probably some some some unhappiness too i think there's probably some disappointment and unhappiness there a lot of people it's amazing what people put up with too right like some people get have these long ass marriages forever and ever and ever and they you know they're awful and then they're in their 70s they're like i fucking hated you all along yeah but now i'm stuck with you now we're pensioners together we're in this for the long run and you just think jesus i know it's like i know i know

you have to stay together and stuff but christ almighty at some point in your life you have to just choose happiness right you like you can't you can't just be miserable your whole life and i mean some people just want to be fucking miserable your whole life and i mean some people just want to be fucking miserable it's true but i mean some people get so codependent that it's almost like you ever seen shawshank redemption you've seen that movie right it's on all the time i've seen that movie so in that movie there's that guy who becomes institutionalized because he's been in there so long and he can't live on the outside world and i think in a way some people get into a relationship where the boundaries of

their life are defined by that relationship and especially when you're in a marriage or a long-term relationship uh you tend to structure certain tasks and certain responsibilities between you just you know in some ways especially traditionally the woman would do all the housework and stuff like that that's not the case anymore it's still it's still not not even in general even even when both people work women still do more housework every week that's like statistically but in terms of like responsibilities there are certain things around the house that i do there are certain things around the house that mrs f does and it's rare that she would do one of those and i would do the other right yeah so if you suddenly and also she knows certain things about you know who you know when birthdays are is a prime example right yeah if we you suddenly and also she knows certain things about you know who you know when

birthdays are is a prime example right yeah if we ever split up no fuck is getting a birthday card ever again i have no yeah i'm the same i'm i'm hopeless at that kind of stuff but there's other things like financial things or standing orders that we've got set up on all this kind of stuff or things that are in her name things that are in my name and stuff i see that's just an example of how because your life would fall apart. Exactly. Because you don't even know what she knows. Because at this point, because we're so codependent,

what difference does it make if it's in my name or her name or she's responsible or I'm? It doesn't matter because we're one. We are joined as one. So do you think that the institution of marriage kind of traps people into unhappiness? No, I don't think it's i think it's the opposite i think marriage is is the best thing that society has ever come up with

and i think the the lack of it is is actually a big concern i'm not saying that i'm not a religious person so no but marriage is it makes a huge difference to the quality of life that you're going to have and your children for sure it's crazy yeah and and it's and it's vital for children to you i think children have to have a mom and a dad or two dads or two. They need two people. Two people. That's it. To take care of them.

Because it's so much harder otherwise. They feel safer and there's, you don't, if you're being raised by one person, it's tough for one person to raise you. But also there's no, how do you say like there's no there's no compromise on values right you you've just got just the this one person's values instilling you and that's it and if you're lucky that that person is is is good and and somewhat stable or whatever great you're lucky but sometimes it it's good to have another person chime in and say no no come on you're being too hard on them or right you should you don't, don't do this. Let's do this instead.

It teaches you a lot. And have some sort of plan. Yeah. Compromise is a huge thing. Also, you know, the funny thing is, is seeing your parents argue,

not, not like screaming and throwing plates, but arguing and discussing something and, and, and having differences, I think is a really useful thing for kids as well, because they understand how to argue. Yeah.

And they understand that people can have arguments and still be friends. Of course. So I mean, like my mom raised me and my sister from when I was about eight years old. So my sister would have been about five and a half, six years old. And she was a single parent. And I've seen exactly how hard it is. I know exactly how hard it is. So I don't think that promoting single parenthood is a good thing at all i think it's

really bad really tough and if you want to look at the poverty rates and crime rates and drug use rates and alcoholism and everything is worse outside of marriage especially when you have kids you can be single being single is fine but if you have children i think it's super super important that you're in a relationship and that's really what marriage is all about it's entirely that's what it's for i think even worse than that sometimes is when you have small kids and you're a single parent and then you meet a partner and you're bringing basically a stranger into the equation in into raising your kids like a lot of problems come out of that too yeah you don't really know this person and this person comes with probably baggage too you know if you've got

a couple of kids you're a single parent you're in your 30s or whatever and you've met somebody around the same age as you chances are they've also come out of some sort of broken relationship have some kids have all this baggage and stuff as well and i don't know i think it's i think introducing new people into the mix further along down the line can be very, very hard. I mean, don't get me wrong. I'm sure it works. Absolutely. I'm sure there's like some great success stories.

There are YouTube compilations you can watch of kids giving adoption certificates to their sort of step parents. So, you know, their father has left their mother or vice versa. And they're being raised essentially by someone else's like their surrogate dad or mum and they're giving them adoption papers like for their birthday and it's very heartwarming and everything you know it's very very sweet um and i think it shows that people especially kids really really really need parents around especially both parents i think it is so important but for the reasons we've mentioned that might that might this this might just well be an opinion though right because i'm pretty sure i saw studies that showed that the kids in single parent families were not necessarily any different to kids raised in in well kids are durable and but kids are very durable and

i don't think they were showed to have any less happiness or less skills or less education or anything less. I think it's very much... I don't know where you read that because I've read The Officer. I think that we can't make these opinions necessarily without them being backed up because I think a lot of kids

I don't think we can cast judgment on these things without science behind them. I don't know what science is. My experience is anecdotal, so it's not evidence. But I mean, I've definitely, definitely read. I will find them if needed, but I've definitely read that single parenthood is really bad. I'm a big counter-argumenter, right?

And if I don't know the science, then I'll try not to... Of course, no, you should question it. And you should say, you know, let's find out. In the same way, I think that, you know, we shouldn't necessarily force families together. I don't know the science, so I'm going to counter you with even less science, if's find out. In the same way, I think that, you know, we shouldn't necessarily force families together. I don't know the science, so I'm going to counter you with even less science, if that makes sense.

Yeah, exactly. You don't have the data, and I've got less. I've got even less than you do. Take that, bitch. As a casual argument to what you guys have been saying, like, you know, I don't think that families should be forced to stay together for the sake of the kids

if they're going to hate each other. Absolutely. Because I'm sure that's probably worse. That's probably worse. Yeah. Unless, again, there's some sort of compromise

where it's like, you know what? We know we don't have a great relationship, but we're going to stick with it until the kids are big enough and then we'll part ways. Just become swingers.

Or at an age where they understand or whatever. I think that's more common than we realize. stick with it until the kids are big enough and then we'll part ways just become swingers are at an age where they understand or whatever but that's i think that's more common than a lot of people are good friends for the sake of the kids and then you know when once they're in high school or whatever piece honestly like the thing is that these days what we're finding is that people are marrying later they're having kids later and as a result the people as a result when sort of divorce rates in a sense i think have been dropping because i think people have been more educated and more more sure with their decisions yeah i think we used to get married and have kids a lot earlier and you know i can't think how much i've changed since i was 21 you know imagine most people got

married when they were 21 i was 25 oh back in yeah i was 23 when i got married back in the day though like my grandma got married when she was like 18 and she already had like right a kid on the way and it like this is back in like the 1940s or whatever but like it's it's it's definitely changed a lot i think i mean people people are taking more time i think to have careers but especially women are having the average age is now 32. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, but previously women didn't work.

So it was different. They didn't work as much. And they would give up their job when they got married. So all they had to do was get a job, get a flat somewhere, meet a guy, get married and then have kids. Like that was the archetypal family for a long time. So nowadays you've got women going through university a lot more, getting jobs and careers. And then they have to meet the right kind of person who's going to be able to...

I mean, basically they need to be able to afford to have fucking childcare and kids and shit. I think it's mostly the empowerment of women which has changed this, though. It's absolutely changed, yeah, of course. They want to get a career and a job and they don't want to spend this time giving it up to... But is that empowerment or is that just equality with men

because it's that's what men have had forever yeah i feel like i i feel like it's great on on the one hand and then on the other hand i just think jesus do you really know what you're getting yourselves into like you really want to fucking toil away you could have stayed at home stinks it sucks fuck me well yeah i mean obviously women got what they wanted but uh You could have stayed at home. It stinks. It sucks. Fuck me. I mean, obviously, women got what they wanted, but... You didn't know what you wanted. You wished for it. Welcome to work. It fucking sucks.

Well, yeah, I read an interesting thing about paternity leave. Did either of you guys get paternity leave at all? I didn't have a job, so no. I was pretty lucky, yeah. My place was really good with paternity leave. They gave me tons of time off. And then even after the baby was born, a couple of days, I had to just phone in sick because my wife was just like fucking dead from the massive culture shock and just the process of giving birth and stuff. So they were they were super generous.

They gave me lots of paternity time. And on top of that, just a lot of random sick days and days to just adjust and get on top of things and stuff. It was pretty good. Do you think that was healthy for you to have when you came back to work and things? Did it help you be a better employee and stuff? Was it a good thing?

No. Not at all. No. It's just necessary. It's just good for you. I just had to be there to help. There was certain things that just needed to be done and certain situations that had to be resolved and stuff.

And it was just nice to have the flexibility to do that. But I was fucking dead when I went back to work. And I've been dead ever since for the past like six years. I think I was working, but I quit. I mean, my job finished very quickly after the baby was born. Like I was like, I worked for a few more months and then I was done and just looked after the kids ever since. Not just.

I do the fucking Triforce podcast. Well, yeah, I mean, that's a full-time job. Full-time job, baby. 7,000 hours of Dota. That's taken years. I looked at your Dota buff the other day and just seeing your games played. And there's very

few days when you've not played Dota in the last eight years. Five years. It's crazy. It's pretty scary. There were a couple of days on there. I was looking at it and I was like, what happened on these days? It was like three days where you played 18 games, 19 games

and 18 games of Dota. I was like, how long is the average game? Like 45 minutes to an hour maybe? And you played like 18 fucking games. I was like, Mrs. Flax must have been away that weekend. I mean, this weekend she was away. So the weekend just gone. She took the kids down to Bournemouth for the weekend to see her parents.

And I was like, this is the dream. No, no, I was really good. I actually went out to the shop. I planned it all out. It's the most planning I've ever put into anything in months. I was like, she's away? So I went to the shop on Friday and I bought loads of supplies

and I bought meals and stuff and I didn't just buy sloppy stuff. I bought a hell of a lot of booze so that counteracted all the good stuff. And then you played six games of Dota. I literally just sat and played Dota forever. And then you played six games of Dota. And then I literally just sat and played Dota forever. And then you played six games of Dota on Saturday and six games on Sunday. And we did Hearts of Iron.

We did Hearts of Iron on a Saturday night for seven and a half hours. We did a multiplayer game. Hey, Lewis, do you have a website where you can tell what I did this weekend? Well, for this, exactly. Isn't this a wonderful resource? Like, your wife knows that you're not cheating because she's like, all right, well, you've been playing Dota every day for eight hours a day for five years.

Yeah, there's that too. But I mean, the thing is, a lot of people are like, all you do is sit around and play Dota, but it's such a cheap hobby, isn't it? It doesn't cost anything. It's free to play, baby. You're not out drinking.

You're not out, you know, spending a ton of money here, there, and everywhere, taking your number one bae to the movies and then for a hot meal afterwards and then a couple of drinks and stuff. Flamin' up, juicy pussy. Then just like a Jack Cameron hit. Shoving your gigantic ramrod into her love hole and stuff. You're not doing any of that shit.

You're just sitting there playing a game for free. It's so cheap. It's such a good hobby it's such a good good hobby to have you know what though my eldest daughter my eldest daughter is it's just as bad as me when it comes to games in terms of just one just wanting to play them all the time like that's all she wants to do she is we got her a nintendo switch for her birthday so i'm kind of enabling this addiction because yeah i i'm there with her you know what i mean i've always played games i'm sure you guys are the same i've always played my son is the exact same we have the exact same situation at our house and she her her mentality is exactly the same as mine is that she'll play a multiplayer

game doesn't really mind if she wins or loses she tries to win but it's not like this devastating crushing oh my god i'm so frustrated like my mate used to bite his Xbox controller Like that in fury or is it super nintendo controller had teeth marks all over it from where my Ice I I took a super nintendo controller one time I was playing super metroid and you know that like the sticky wall jump What you where you jump up on a wall and you stick to it. And then you have to jump wall to wall. Yeah.

I'd been playing it for a while. My hands were very clammy and sweaty. So doing the sticky wall jump was proving to be quite difficult. And, man, I got so fucking frustrated. I took the Nintendo controller by the cord, spun it around really quick, like on a short cord, spun it around really quick, and then, like spun it around really quick and then like whacked it on the ground and it smashed open and smashed everywhere oh no yeah it was it was pretty brutal i had to like try to screw it back together and then it didn't quite work again so and back then it wasn't like i'll just go on amazon i'll get one delivered tomorrow

i had to wait like wait like a week before i could get a new controller and stuff it was terrible holy fuck sorry i was just i just got lost in dotabuff then i was just looking at your stats I had to wait like a week before I could get a new controller and stuff. It was terrible. Sorry, I just got lost in Dota buff then. I was just looking at your stats, period. I had a nine win streak. I had a nine fucking win streak and then it got busted. Oh my God. Glorious.

So I don't know if I'm allowed to say anything about this, but I suppose I can say that for some reason, I've been really interested in Dota again. And I don't know, it's like when I played Hearthstone, I got really into World of Warcraft. It's one of those things where it just sort of brings you back into the fray of that world. And I'm just thinking about Dota, and I might have to start playing it again.

It's weird. It's happening. But I'm a winning player now, Lewis. I've got a little taste of it in my veins. Yeah, that's how I'm like. I need to warn you, Lewis. If you think you're going to be playing with Flax, you better bring your A game

because he doesn't suffer fools like you. I don't have an A game anymore. Then you're out. At best. Yeah, Flax got mad at me for being bad at Dota and said he wouldn't play with me anymore. You said on stream that you can't have two Tards or something like that.

I saw that. Someone sent me the clip of you saying look i'm bitter because i was rejected so i was i saw that so there's this twitch clip of of you saying if you have one bad on a team it's okay if there's two bads on a team this this is the other thing can't carry those people yeah i mean i've been playing actually with it team, the other three can't carry those people. I mean, I've been playing actually with my viewers a lot. That's why you don't play with people. I've been playing a lot with viewers, especially in the morning, because I've got a regular crew that I play with in the evening, like Munt and Cinny and Plague and guys like that.

And in the morning, I mix it up. I play with pretty much anybody. And mainly because most of my mates are, you know, the guys that I normally are at work Or at university or whatever, but there always seem to be these strange people that are around at 10 a.m On a weekday morning or 9 a.m. On a Monday They'll be like I can easily get four guys that just want to play there So but some of them are like so bad. It's actually made me miss you guys like worse than me oh way worse oh dude i played

with a guy i feel bad for you he had less than 10 games of dota okay let me tell you something when we got him in the stack it was a guaranteed win because he was he was really trying and he's actually improved like you can see him getting better while he's playing and he only plays witch doctor it's the only hero i've ever seen him play right he's called ye man he just plays this hero and he really tries and he he's a trier and he supports properly and he learns and he listens everything i was like this is the dream because he drags us right down to a lower bracket so yes he's an anchor he's never going to win the game for you but it makes the games a lot easier by having him do you want i mean like he he puts you in a lower skill bracket game and it says at the beginning a little disclaimer pops up that

says please remember to be patient and understanding with newer players that's what dota 2 says to you now when ye man and guys like that are in the game which i think is fantastic um so i don't mind playing with bad players the problem i have with playing with you guys and you too in particular okay yeah is you don't give a shit no you literally couldn't care less you don't listen to anything anyone says you don't really want to win you just go off and do your own thing and if and every time i remember when i was playing with sips like he walks into just blind uphill there's a hero there that kills me he's like oh fuck me like he can't oh this game is so bullshit oh he could just kill me because doer is not a fair game and sometimes your hero will just

die to this hero that's it this hero kills your hero and there's nothing you can do about it other than not be in that place or or you know you have to be already winning the game and be more farmed than them and i think most games try to keep it even if you look at counter-strike i if i have a pistol i can kill a guy with an orb right it's just that's the way the game goes you can just outplace someone doter is not like that doter is very different your hero sometimes just kills the other guy and there's nothing you've just got him and i think for a lot of people and i think for you good for you sips especially that's very frustrating yeah because you play you play a lot of games with a loter, and you play a lot of single-player games where it's not the same. I think that is it.

I think that it's about fairness. I think the thing about Dota is it's incredibly complex, right? Like, when I'm playing a miniatures game, right, and there's a dice, and you hit on fives, you know that's a one in three chance of you hitting, right? So you're thinking, okay, five fire ten shots, three and a third of them are going to hit. So, you know, on average, that's a five to wound, so one third's going to.

So I'm going to do one wound on average, okay? And then he's got an armor save. So I could probably do a wound if I shoot him with these ten guys. So you roll your ten, that's your decision made. And it's kind of an intelligent thing, whereas with Dota, it's all so quick and so fast. And the levels are 125, and you don't know what items they have, you don't know where they've put their skill points,

and you're not quite sure how much damage these abilities necessarily of every hundred of heroes do and so you don't necessarily know if you're going to go up

on a 1v1 with someone am I going to kill this guy? and sometimes a lot of times you'll blink in you'll start hitting this guy and you'll realise oh fuck

I completely misjudged this there's no way I'm going to be able to kill this guy and you're like do I hope that someone will turn up and save me do I like back out

and like then and it's added to the mix by the fact that there could have been another fucking invisible guy like just around the corner or he could have spooked us out the fog

and you have to try and weigh all these things up and then and as a result it's kind of this thing that just kind of it becomes this sort of a feeling

that you just get for the game right you just get rather than it being like a concrete decision backed up by any kind of numbers by any kind of sensibility by something you could be trained in and learned like if you went through all the damage tables and stuff and you kind of learn i mean sure you can on a tabletop game you kind of know roughly how good units are against units and you'll osmos that stuff in but but in a sense like we're used to playing XCOM and things like this where we're like yeah I'm happy taking an 80% shot

yeah I'm happy taking a risk on this one whereas with Dota it's like I'm never sure and that frustrates me in a sense and the only way

you really get it is through doing it the guy who plays Witch Doctor he knows if he can play enough games like with Hearthstone

you just develop a sense for timing and stuff I think that's the way I ended up getting legend in the way they recommend playing these games you just play the same fucking deck because what you do is you learn all the fucking scenarios and when i got legend it was because i knew every single thing that could happen i almost i was the same you just like know your matchups you know which one's your favorite in you know what what's coming you know what's like one in 10 games as well it's so important and knowing what to mulligan against you know sort of predicting what deck somebody's running and mulliganing correctly against them it's nice to be able to to do that

and think okay i've achieved that but with with dota there's so many factors there's so many things there's so many different things and i feel like the other thing about Dota is I'm always a little bit scared to become good with one hero because then I've put my MMR up too high with that and then I'm no good with anything else

and it's like okay I can only ever play this one here and that's not how I like to play Dota I like to play with random heroes every time

like I like to play Hearthstone but when I play that I never leave rank 20 because I never leave rank 20 at Hearthstone if I'm playing random decks I never leave fucking you know shit tier mmr with dota because i want to play a different hero every time and i'm never willing to to learn and by the time i've learned a bit on every single hero i've forgotten what i've learned i think i mean you know the other

thing is that dota is not a game that anybody fully understands like a patch will come i mean there's a patch tonight right there'll be a patch tonight that changes the game again and even the guys who sped, the pro players, the very top pro players have an understanding of the game that varies between team and person. So captain A, captain B, captain C will all have a different appreciation of what they think works and what doesn't and how and they're like you'll hear them talk, there'll be a team that's doing great and i say oh yeah we could beat them all you have to do is xyz and they have they feel that they have a counter the other teams don't have that if this was a game where you could have perfect understanding there would be a mathematical guaranteed way to win like there is in in a lot of games like say poker there is an optimal way to play poker right absolutely so and there is an

optimal way to play to play a lot of games um yeah but dota doesn't really have that because it's it's there's too much going on it's too much there is an optimal way of playing every game and if you're wondering where to find out uh more information on how to play games optimally, look no further than Twitch chat because everybody there is an expert at the game. Okay. So Sips, you stream a lot. I've never played this game before, but I think if you do X, Y, and Z,

you surefire win. You stream a lot, right? I stream a lot. I try as little as possible to read chat and people say to me, does Pirin interact with his viewers? Like, does he ever read chat? Because I hardly hardly ever read it but I seem to have a sixth sense for when someone is shit talking me or saying something mean normally I'll take it completely out of

context but I'll happen to look at chat when someone has said oh fuck off or this guy's such a tool and I'll be like banning that person and then realizing my mistake and unbanning that person but I hardly ever try to look to twitch chat for advice this brings back the conversation about um chat emotes though too because sometimes people say something and if there's a kappa at the end of it you know they're just being sarcastic right but without it you're like holy fuck this fucking guy i'm gonna ban him he's dissing me on the net the worst thing for me is that now that i've played with a lot of the guys in my chat that like talk a lot i've played with them i know they're terrible and they're lolling and saying oh you should do this you should do that and i'm like ruffling i'm like how fucking dare you dude

you suck and like i was playing the other day. I was playing Counter-Strike. Yeah, seriously. I was playing Counter-Strike last night and this guy's in chat telling me all this stuff I should be doing. You're wasting too many nades. You're doing this, you're doing that.

I was like, can you shut the fuck up? I'm just playing CSGO with my mates. And he was like, well, what's wrong with some advice? I said, all right, imagine this. You've got your car out on the driveway. You're fixing, you've got the hood open. You're fixing something. You're doing your best job. I mean, all right, imagine this. You've got your car out on the driveway. You're fixing, you've got the hood open. You're fixing something. You're doing your best job.

I mean, this was, people don't fix their cars on the driveway anymore, but they certainly could in the past. You're out there fixing your car. Some guy's walking down the road and just stops and starts telling you what you're doing wrong. Now, you don't know if this guy's a fucking mechanic. Maybe you're mowing the lawn, right? And he's like, oh, no, you don't want to be going horizontal

across that fucking lawn, mate. You want to be fucking doing it vertical. You want to be doing it. Yeah, it's always like a Londoner that has to come in, even if you're nowhere near London. You could be in Texas. What are you doing, mate? Oh, no, mate, you're doing that all wrong. You want to go vertical stripes.

Vertical, not horizontal. What are you doing, you mud? You mud. Jeez. Where in the Congo? Where did you come from you don't want to go that close

to the verge mate it's gonna fucking you get you get a cat so to me

that's what twitch chat is kind of like people think they stop by and we're just all

friends but I don't fucking know you there's a there's a

guy in my twitch chat called backseat gamer and every once in a while he chimes in and he's

very funny like I was playing Kerbal Space he chimes in and he's very funny like i was playing kerbal space program and um he donated and he's like sips i've just taken a lunch break from my very busy job at my career at nasa doing astronomy and particle physics and stuff just to tell you that you are fucking stupid you suck at this game and you should play it the way that i want you to play it it's so funny it gets me every time i think like we because i played um we played space hulk yesterday on on battle boys which is one of the streams where we sort of play games and board games great great stream check it out um and tom tom we were playing space hulk and

obviously this is a game that tom and ben have played and i played back in the day but obviously nowhere near as much as they did and it felt like tom was going into the game with basically perfect information right he kind of knew the game so well that because we were i was going down the right hand side with my terminates he was going the left hand side and he was doing stuff that was that was crazy right he was like oh yeah if i do this guy i can like spin him around shoot spin and shoot turn and like cover and i was like just chomping my marines down like a like a 10 year old you know playing the warhammer for the first time and tom was like just going in there like some sort of masterclass and i think that he played that game enough that he knew his limits inside and out and

at that point boundaries at that point though it, it almost became a game of chance for him because he knew what all of the situations were and he knew how to play as good as he could and it just was bad luck that did him in. If you rolled a dice and it didn't hit, then he lost the game. It didn't feel like it was a game anymore in that sense. It felt like a coin flip because he knew the game so well that obviously his decisions were all locked in, in a sense. sense right it felt like a coin flip because he knew the game so well that it obviously like

his decisions were all locked in in a sense right whereas with something much more complicated like poker or or dota uh i think that you're the osmosis of the world that that's around you it is still like key like you just have to immerse yourself like so much in the game and play so much of the game that you're just you know another level you know what i like i like playing games with with tom because he he's a very funny guy but he does also understand games like he he's not he's not like some mega try hard but he definitely knows how to play you know what i mean like when you play games with tom ben is the same and they're both very understanding with people who are shit at games.

I'm shit at games. So when I come up there and we play a board game or something like that, and Ben or Tom is in charge of it, they're very, very good at dealing with me not knowing what the fuck I'm doing. I like that. I need that.

They're also very much, I think, they get tempered by people like Alex, right? Who is this guy we play with, who is, his sort of attitude towards games is that he doesn't give a fuck about winning. In a weird way. Some people don't give a fuck about winning for different reasons.

Shin just wants to troll. He wants to make a laugh. He wants to kind of... And Sips too, to some extent, has always been this guy who doesn't really care about winning. He just wants to kind of make weird shit happen. Right.

It's almost like trying to get the game to tell a story. It's like, let's see what story we can get from this game because that is more interesting and funnier, definitely, and more memorable. If you have a really weird game, like if we played Civ and all kinds of weird stuff happened, we'd remember that much more than just a straightforward everybody playing to win.

Like every month of Iron Game we've ever played. This is a weird one. But I don't think any of us are necessarily coming at it with the angle of of i want to make this like fun for other people or i want to make this fun to watch like i think a lot of people still come at it with the angle of i want to make it fun for myself and the way that i want to make it fun for myself is not to win it's to to just like get immersed in this in the world or make up stupid stories or come up with stupid anecdotes that enhance the storytelling of that world,

which is why I think we've seen this rise of D&D and that type of thing because it lets those creative people who don't necessarily want to win, because with D&D, sure, you win, but you kind of know you're going to win because it's kind of fixed that you're going to win any good gm is not gonna let your characters die whereas you know in in space hulk you've got your favorite fucking space marine bam he's dead you know fuck you i don't necessarily want to lose but i like creating a shit storm if i can you know i like i like creating a situation that seems almost impossible to get out of because it does make for a good story,

but it just makes for a fun time playing the game too. I think you're a different kind of troll to Shin, definitely. There's plenty of times in XCOM where I'd taken a move that was catastrophic, but then just scraped my way out of it sort of thing and or you done yeah i can see that like you'd either taken an ability that was just just just mathematically worse or yeah you've done a move that was mathematically but it was fun deliberately and at some point it fits into the narrative sort of thing and yeah i like those moments that's about karma though too right it's about sometimes you this is when you're playing a game you have to be like i'm just doing this i know

it's wrong but i'm just doing this and i think that some people um are different character types and they will never take those wrong decisions in a sense right i like the idea of discovering something about a game that and you know you know that this game is being played by millions of people and everybody's probably come across it or at least like a good portion of the people playing the game have come across it but i i like to sometimes think like i've done this and and nobody really does this and it's and it's paid off and i've discovered some new quirk to the game or something even though i never do like it always just ends in some sort of failure or whatever but i like the idea sometimes

all you need to do is just yeah to see the idea blossom and then you extrapolate forwards like in a sense like one of the things i've been trying to push in storytelling is like you know if you if you if you set something up the audience sees it to its conclusion right so if you say you know if you get a guy drawing a gun on someone he says i'm gonna kill you it already in your mind you've seen that guy getting killed and so you kind of in a story for me like you can't kill him at that point right you've almost like for me because it's just not it's it's like an inevitable so you know unless it's unbelievable i don't that's a bad example but so often like you know the best twists come when everything you think is leading towards this end where you're like, OK, I see where this is going.

I've predicted it. Aren't I smart? You know, I figured out who it is, you know, and then, bam, it's not. Yeah. I played a game of CK2 one time and I was Sardinia and I was quite happy to just own all of Sardinia. I conquered it. I held on to it. And I was just the whole game. I was just like, yeah, we're just own all of Sardinia. I conquered it. I held on to it. And I was just, the whole game, I was just like, yeah, we're just going to keep Sardinia.

We're going to see what happens around the rest of the world, but we're just going to hold on to Sardinia. Make Sardinia great again. This is going to be our stronghold sort of thing. We'll build it up and stuff. And I wasn't too worried about what was going to happen the rest of the game. I just wanted to hang on to Sardinia. And then over the course of the rest of the game. I just wanted to hang on to Sardinia. And then over the course of the rest of the game,

I end up inheriting Burgundy. So I have to run all of Burgundy as well. And then Sardinia gets invaded. So I had to take it back. And it just, when you set out with like a very small goal, just the rest of the game can open up sometimes and, you know, take you to places you never thought you're going to go in that playthrough of the game.

And I just think that that's exciting, and it's a fun way of doing things. I usually have small, dumb goals that I like to achieve, and then that usually just leads on to a bigger sort of meta goal. It's nice to play games that allow that. Yeah, that's true too. Well, that's all we've got time for because we better go. There's no one next week because me and Sips

are away in Seattle. Yes. Have a great time, lads. Have a great time. We don't know what we can talk about with regards to that, but we'll let you know when we get back and hopefully give you a little run now. Seattle is great. Seattle is great. You guys will love it. Get some chowder. Go down to Pike's Place. Don't go to the big place

on the board. I heard Pike's Place is really good.'s okay it's okay recommended pike's place the closer you get to the water the worse the restaurants get but if you there's a little there's one place i can't remember what it's called i can find the name out of it for you that does bread bowl soups just like a bowl made out of bread it's like the the yeah you just eat the bowl when you've done the soup that is the best the best chowder I've ever had. And I say that as apologies to New Englanders everywhere, but that is the best chowder. The chowder.

Chowder. Chowder. Well, there you go. The chowder. Thank you. This podcast is sponsored by chowder.com. And The Simpsons as well. Make sure you watch brand new episodes on fox.com

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it's good for your pussy just pour it in there alright see you later goodbye Pour it in there. All right. See you later. Bye. Goodbye. Bye.