Triforce! - Triforce! #99.8: Time to Meet the Cheaters

Episode Date: July 10, 2019

Triforce! Episode 99.8! Aimbots, hackers and all the people that ruin games... we want to hear from you! Bodega: Tales from the Bodegaverse available here: https://yogsca.st/BodegaBook Support your favourite podcast on Patreon: https://bit.ly/2SMnzk6 Music courtesy of Epidemic Sound. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Hello, everybody, and welcome back. Don't tune your dial. 99.8. Triforce FM. That's right. We're not going to get there. What was that? We're not going to make it.

There's a month to go, and we have at least four more to do before the big 100, so it's going to go into... You can do 99.11. Lads, we're into decimals. 99.91ads we're into decimals we're into decimals it's infinite numbers 99.999 99.9999 bingo bingo boingo i don't think it's confusing for the people at home at all i don't think so either it's i feel like it's a lot of lead up and hype to something that i don't think we can deliver on at all though like how can we top

all of these podcasts weekly pretty much and also the jugs that we sold to people there's the there's it doesn't get better than that I don't think yeah but they know that you know you buy a lemon you know it's going to be a lemon right this podcast is a lemon they know it's going to be bitter it's going to have a rough exterior it's only going to be useful for a few things. So that's it. They're not going to be like, why isn't this a melon? They know it's a lemon. I don't know though. This is the internet we're talking about. Expectations

are wild on the internet. Nah, they're loyal viewers and listeners. I guess. We've made it this far. If you're still listening, you're in. You know what I mean? I wouldn't say this podcast was a lemon. I'd say it was a lime. It's sour, but it's close. It's You're in. You know what I mean? I wouldn't say this podcast was a lemon. I'd say it was a lime, right? Yeah, you're right.

I was way off. It's sour, but it's close. It's British. We're limeys. I would say that this podcast is like a used dildo that doesn't appear to have any shit on it, but smells really badly of shit. That's my... Holy shit. Yeah. I don't know why it would smell like uh shit so bad you know but it looks like one of those enveloping shit smells too you know

like it enters the room and all of a sudden the whole room is just swamped with that smell do people put them in dishwashers like as on its own would you wash it in a dishwasher you'd have to wash it at some point right you're you wash it in a dishwasher you'd have to wash it at some point right you're inserting that into your body like you probably have to get some dettol on that do you swing it in with the your underwear in a in a washing machine does that ruin it is there some kind of thermal plastic that melts if it gets too hot could you dishwasher a dildo that's the question is there like uh is there branded dildo wash like can you get just like a bottle of shall we look it up i'm gonna dildo wash yeah let me get a little incognito

tab here hold on you just wash it in the sink with some hot water and you just like you know really just fucking rub it dildo cleaning how to clean sex toys you gotta rub it clean oh this is from glamour magazine i'm sure there's a fluid you can buy yeah um semen um from any good dildo cleansing fluid tm yeah yeah well you don't want to use anything too abrasive it's got to go back in there yeah you know and you want to keep your bum hole the most basic way is to wash with warm water and a gentle but disinfectant soap or a damp cloth. If you're using soap, be sure to rinse well and dry. Laying them flat to air dry is excellent. But if you have kids, pets, or roommates, you may want to wrap them in a towel to stow them away post-haste.

This is a very efficient way to clean stainless steel items and most silicon. You probably have to do that with your fleshlight too, right? You have to get that cleaned out. I mean, that even more so. Yeah, because I imagine imagine there are specialty wipes there is and then you can run a uvc germicidal light over it to make sure it's making if you're fucking a piece of plastic how fucking picky can you be give me a break is it like cleaning out a i don't know like something like a blender i that it's got i mean but obviously the complete opposite of a blender yeah um don't mention fleshlight and blender in the same sentence please but but in a sense like some of these blenders kind of get

quite like dirty on the inside yeah they get all gunked up in like the the mechanical parts right like the blades yeah you get like all that fucking gunk underneath like the creases of the blades. Good Lord. We should have put a trigger warning at the start of this. I can't imagine that anything is worse than what we're talking about right now, actually. Do you know what's worse? Can openers. Can openers.

Why do can openers get so dirty? Well, because there's a lot of splashback. Because the vacuum seal of the contents of the can. The pressure always sprays into them. You don't see it, but lots of gunk flies out. So it gets onto your can opener. Before you know it, you've got a crusty, rusty, weird, gunky, gunkied up can opener. A guy in the office, Will, who makes Cave Blazers, he makes his own food. Now that's obviously unusual.

When you say makes his own food, I'd say anybody does that when they cook, even making a sandwich. He makes his own food okay now that's obviously when you say makes his own food I'd say anybody does that when they cook even making a sandwich he makes his own he makes his own cheese chili sauce how do you make his own cheese oh fuck was that the guy who made the fermented chili sauce last time I was in Bristol that's right sit and fucking um Paul opened it and it it exploded everywhere it went yes everywhere I couldn't believe it it and it exploded everywhere. It went everywhere. I couldn't believe it. It was like the blender blade.

It was just fucking in places you would never imagine it could even reach. It went like, you know, like where the Death Star exploded. It had that Saturn ring style explosion. I love how there's like little pipes and stuff. That was in the special edition, the ring effect. They added that. That was not in the original. That ring of kind of debris and shockwave is something you see in movies.

That was, imagine that with chili sauce. Like it did a ring around the entire Games Night room. Yeah, it was bad. Like fucking everywhere. It was insane. I couldn't believe how. And it looked really orange. It was like neon orange, this stuff.

It was dangerously orange. I've got a lot of respect for people who make their own stuff like that, like chili sauce. And man, it's good stuff. It's not, I mean, it's weird. I don't know if I have respect for people who make their own stuff like that like chili sauce and man it's good stuff it's not i mean it's weird i don't know if i have respect for people like that i just feel like yeah okay good for you got more time than i do if i if i had more time maybe i would do dumb shit like that too i don't have respect for people that do that what are you what are you doing that takes up so much time man i don't know i need to do an inventory but i certainly don't have time to ferment chili sauce like i don't i just don't have that time in my day like i i couldn't devote even

one second to that but it's a good diversion it's a good like it's a good it's a good thing to look up it's probably not that hard you know i always thought that it would be nice to have a little greenhouse in my backyard but not like a crappy plastic one that you buy at B&Q or whatever. I wanted to make a really nice one, you know, like have one kind of like out of the, you know, the like the orange grove or whatever that they have in the Godfather, you know. Something picturesque, organized, and with a mist sprayer in there and a little place to hang my tools and gloves. This is very doable. We can make this happen. This doesn't have to be a dream.

This doesn't have to be a beautiful dream. I like how you started off this anecdote with that way of saying things like, I've always wanted something, but also I'm never going to have. Well well this ties back into why i don't ferment my own chili sauce though i just don't have any time to devote to that you were just telling us you were a little a little you need a little break there's your summer project build your best dude i'm going away though like i'm gonna be away for the whole break i'm going man listen to this okay I'm going to be away for the whole break. I'm going, man, listen to this, okay? I'm going to Telford, like next week,

I'm going to Telford for the weekend. Yeah, I know, nuts, eh? God, it's going to be fucking crazy. Is that for Coxcom? Yeah, and then I get back from that, and then in like a week and a half after I get back, I'm off to Lisbon for a couple of days for this bachelor party

and to hook up with some of my Canadian friends. So I'm there for a couple of days. I get back. I'm back for one day. And then I'm off to Bristol for a week for YogCon and like a mini family vacation. I get back. I got like two weeks. We're back for like two weeks. And then I think I'm coming back with you, though, aren't I? From after YogCon, I'm coming back to Jersey with you for a week. Okay, well, I guess Lewis is coming back with you though, aren't I? From after YodCon, I'm coming back to Jersey with you for a week. Okay, well, I guess Lewis is coming back here for a week too then. I didn't realize, but there you go. So now Lewis is going to be here for a week.

So I have to do that. And then shortly after that, we're off on another family vacation. But this time a proper one where I'm not going to be at a convention the whole time for like a week. And then I'm back for like a month and then we're off to San Diego for TwitchCon. Wow. So I got a lot of travels coming up soon. Reflect, maybe, you know, make some changes, make some make some life changes. Maybe I will build this greenhouse that I've been talking about, you know, I might be away for three weeks over the summer, unfortunately. So how's that greenhouse that you're gonna build? three weeks over the summer unfortunately so how's that greenhouse that you're gonna build get built well i i don't have room for a beautiful greenhouse in my garden because

we've got a little london garden we don't have one of these big fancy jersey gardens right um so i've got to go to leicester not far from telford next week to play magic the gathering then i'm going to i'm sorry i'm sorry about that i'm sorry i feel sorry for you both about leicester and magic the gathering then i'm going to ibiza for a week with the kids which should be fun then it's yodcon nice then are you just going clubbing you know what's the ibiza trip that's ibiza isn't that like a famous party he got invited by the minister the ministry of sound invited him out especially him and his kids the actual minister of sound came to me and said I'm here from the ministry of sound hear ye hear ye I the minister of sound

cordially invite you to the island of Ibiza wee that's exactly what happened everywhere he goes there's a tiny speaker system just pounding out some banging house music yeah yeah I love the idea that you're going

from Magic the Gathering to Ibiza. Yeah, I know. That's like both ends of the spectrum. Then it's Yogg-Con, of course. Oh, another completely alternative end. Wait, so you don't know Ibiza before Yogg-Con? Yeah. Nice.

Well, he's got to get himself, you know, some stories to tell for the Triforce 100. And then there's like summer holidays with the kids around and all that kind of stuff. And then potentially TI if I get invited this year, which would be like two weeks in China. Oh, it's China this year, isn't it? Yeah. Good Lord. Good God. Internationals in China. That'd be amazing. Which city do you know? It's in Shanghai. Oh, okay. Which is where you were before for the major. Yeah. Was the major like a test? It was not a major. Oh. It was just like a tent? It was not a major. Oh. It was just a smaller tournament.

Wasn't that one the one that was a total mess with like T-shirt and all that? That was the Shanghai major. Right. So that was when James Harding was publicly fired. You weren't there? I was not there. Thank God. It sounded like a messy one. I went to China in 2018.

I think December 2018. It was freezing cold and it was a very small event, but I'd never been to China before, so I thought, yeah, let's go. And I've got my cool Chinese visa in my passport, which has the Great Wall of China on the visa, which was nice. And yeah, I think it's still valid, so I can go if I get invited to TI. If you guys are away, we still have to keep this podcast up. We're going to have to find time to do it

because I really want to, like, you know, we got Patriots now. We don't want to lose the momentum. They're expecting it. But mostly, I want to just, I want to find out what's going on. I want to talk to you in China and, like, be asking you all the questions

about what's going on, what's all the spicy food, like, what's all the tall buildings. I'm sure we had a massive discussion about this last time Flax went to China. We spoke about and and everything yes we did don't get me wrong i'm up for talking about it again but i'm just gonna no no you're correct i don't want to get into the whole shanghai thing well listen sips we repeat ourselves a lot in this podcast we should try not to those what i'm saying well i don't think it's gonna stop because we just i think i'm the worst

offender for it too like the bath plug story probably told that story about fucking I don't think it's going to stop because we just... I think I'm the worst offender for it too. Like the bath plug story. Probably told that story about fucking... I don't think I've heard the story about the bath plug. Do you want to go into it? No, please. You know what? Talking of insufferable people, I was thinking today about how other people think about the rest of us.

You know what I mean? Yeah. So I was taking my kids to school. Their school is sort of down a little cul-de-sac. One of the roads you can get there is like a little cul-de-sac. And some parents drive down right to the gate, drop their kid off, do like an 18-point turn to get out. And it's really annoying. So this one guy was coming out of the road.

This other one was coming down it. And there was nowhere for either of them to go. So they both stopped. And neither of them was going to budge an inch. One woman was just sitting there in a car with her arms folded staring at the guy very like very slightly shaking her head and he was just sat in his car like with his his chin rested in his hand just looking at her sort of eyeballing her and there was like total lockdown and i'm thinking these two people have just had enough shit today yeah rather than think like some idiot cut them up in the road so they're gonna think that guy's

an idiot they're like man people suck and i just think how quickly we go from trying to think about everybody's individuals to you're having a bad day to that's it i'm blaming every single other human being on the planet and you're all in trouble yeah i just wonder what that snap where that point comes where you just can't bear like you literally chuck everybody in the same tub and drown drown them that that's the feeling in your head is i don't want any other human beings to interact with me i'm sick of everybody i feel like you just described perfectly the uh design and development process for team fight tactics i think i think riot sat down and thought fuck everybody let's fuck here you go eat shit here's a here's this game like i i think the people that that made that

game hate everybody and want them to be miserable and then they and then they made that game it's like the man is the manifestation of that in game form god it really is however i see you've been playing yeah like uh i had like a bit of a mini binge on it but i think i'm done now i think i'm over it you gotta add it's too fucking random like the items and stuff just the carousel thing is fucking garbage too like there's there's it's nice looking and it plays well and it's auto chess but there's just certain things that just suck about it i don't know i thought underlords handles the item thing quite well in that it gives you a choice of three when you win the item rounds and some of them buff your whole team, which is quite nice. Yeah. And I did think it was decent. But the problem I have is what happens

if I just don't get good units? Like what are you meant to do? Because everyone's like don't never reroll, don't reroll. So I won't reroll. Yeah, you spend the whole game fishing for like the one guy you need, and you never get him. Right, but even then, all I'm getting is garbage units. Everyone's like, I could have a level 2 Slardar, but Slardar's garbage. Everyone says he's garbage.

And then I could have a level so-and-so Drow, but I don't have any other hunters, so what's the point? So why am I being offered these pieces that literally mean nothing to me? And I feel like what would be good is if you could spend a little extra money and get an get an extra piece so it's like this piece isn't on the board but you need it but it's three times the cost or something you know what i mean so rather than just fucking re-roll balance the game so much though i think that the balance of the game is that it is so fucking random like and and i think as a basis for a game you're just you're you're back to being annoyed like you were in in like hearthstone and stuff you're just at the mercy of of total randomness

aren't you some people love that i think that i think you're right i think you're both right actually i totally 100 agree with everything you guys said i love auto chess i love the mechanics i love the idea of it. But it is a crapshoot. Yeah. You know, if you just don't get lucky, or your opponents do. You know, I went into a fight yesterday and there was a guy with like

four level fucking three heroes or whatever. I was like, how have you managed to get this? You know, I can barely string together like a fucking... I don't think I've seen... You know, you have... But that's part of it is and it's one of those things it's weird if you're not getting the things that you need you're meant to

pivot out and you know it is all about other stuff or whatever i'm sure there's a skill and if it's like where i stop whining but yeah i agree like there's not enough decisions i just don't know how how committed i am to the pivot you know what i mean like i i feel like if i'm getting to the point in the game where that's what's got to happen and i am to the pivot you know what i mean like i i feel like if i'm getting to the point in the game where that's what's got to happen and i have to be actively thinking about that i'll just play something else honestly life is too short fuck i hate that it's like i i mean there is a ranking system and there are definitely people that are very very good yeah and if you watch some of the guys on on streaming that are really really good they they win or they finish

top two or three very consistently yeah yeah it appeals to people who play cards and stuff right it like it's like it's like people who play poker and stuff like that you know there are i think it's definitely strategies to it if you you know if you're fucking rain man and you're counting all the toothpicks and stuff or whatever but like again you just have to be up for doing it i think i love i love playing these types of things and you know what i think that we give it we we we talk about it almost give it too much we expect too much from it like you know i play a lot of board games and a lot of these board games i sit down i spend like two hours learning them like you know i played this game at the weekend um it's like a deck building card game right called brass empire and i've been playing some games with some of the guys in the office.

Brass Empire? Brass Empire. Brass Empire. Brass Empire. Oh yeah. So you'll get a flashlight. I would fucking, I play that every night. I'm just looking it up on Steam right now.

And it's not on Steam. It's a board game. Curses. And so, well, Swin Sips was down. We played Terraforming Mars. Oh, that was fun. Hey, you know,

there's a Steam edition of that and it's not that bad. It's not amazing. But there's also all these board games on iPad and they have been for ages. You know,

I've played, you know, just tons and tons and tons of them and they're good, like, for a couple of games. You know, you spend,

first of all, you have to learn the fucking game. Everyone has to learn the game, which takes like two hours. So the first game, no one has a good time because everyone doesn't really understand the mechanics. I disagree.

I think the first game is pretty fun because you're learning how it works and stuff. But there's always some guy who knows how to play because he's teaching you or he's slightly more cleared up. Maybe, yeah. So therefore, he just spirals out of control. You don't realize.

Anyway, the first game is always a write-off, okay? But from then on, you have like two or three games that are good, and then you're done. You don't really play. You're like, do you want to play that board game? Nah, I've already really played it. I've seen all the cards once. But when it comes to Hearthstone or some of these other games,

like the Dota Chess, we seem to want to keep thinking that you've played them hundreds of times like what like why and i think it's the games companies have to like try and hook you in and keep you playing with small rewards and unlock some cosmetic things they have to trick you i mean essentially it's a mobile game you sit down and play for a bit and then you're done right yeah that's and that's what that's what you that's what i think i my my attitude towards gaming has become more of that. I think where I get to with a lot of games and certainly where I'm at with team fight tactics is, um, I, you know, I'm joking. It's, I think it's, I think it's all right.

I think it's a, it's a pretty good game. I think they've done a pretty good job with it. Like, uh, and like when I say I hate it, I'm just a bit salty because like I lost the last game I played. Exactly, I think you have to pick up on that though. You have to pick up on the fact that when you're not enjoying something well I think the problem I have with with uh with specifically a game like uh with auto chess is that I get to a certain point where I I like I don't feel like I'm terrible at it you know I'm not like I'm not placing last every time or whatever some games you just get really unlucky and you do or whatever. But like I think if I try hard, I could consistently like, you know, place pretty high or whatever or even win.

But I'm sort of at the point now where I'm more frustrated than enjoying it because I just don't know how to get better. And I don't know if I want to get better at it either. You know what I mean? You get to a point when you're playing a game where you're starting to get frustrated and it feels like you're not enjoying it and you have to really think to yourself okay am i really just not enjoying this and like it's time to move on sort of thing or or what you know what i mean like i think i think you have to get to the point where you're saying yeah it's frustrating i know i'm making mistakes and i know how to get better and i'm willing to do that or you know I've just done with this like this is just not enjoyable at all anymore I remember when

I was younger I would um certain board games and miniatures games too when I was at school I would obviously be only really be able to play them when I was at home and so when I was on the bus I'd have to read the rule book or when I was at school I'd have to like in my lunch hour I'd have to like or you know I'd have to like make notes and stuff and plans and read other people's thoughts about it and chat to my friends. And I like that was a different way of playing games to just just the sort of the way I can play them now, which is just be into the game. Like, very rarely do I have to come out of a game and read a guide or read a forum post

or read it while other people are talking about. So I'm not exposed to that kind of osmosis of like discussion around something and so i'm very like isolated where whereas like it didn't well i think i think if i had like a like a real job where i was like i don't know where i was able to like do stuff differently like i i realized that because me and sips been playing path of exile but i realized i didn't know where I was able to like do stuff differently. Like I realized that cause me and Sip's been playing Path of Exile, but I realized I didn't know what the fuck I was doing. I was just enjoying it. Yeah.

I enjoyed it a lot more when I was just blindly enjoying it, figuring out the mechanics and having a fun time. I, I, I really resent having to read guides and stuff. But I've, I've learned more now and I've, I regret not having learned more a bit about it.

I feel like, but then again, I feel like I had to read an instruction manual. Games are different. There's so many different weird things for different people. You know what it comes down to, lads? It comes down to this. We're not very good at games. None of us. No.

It's us three. I'm not talking about all the listeners out there. We're just not very good at games. So what we really want is a game that challenges us enough that we can still win and we feel good about it like we don't want it to be too easy because it's too easy even a chode like me can beat it we want a game that gives us just enough challenge but it's still beatable so that we feel some kind of sense of achievement but that game would still be too easy for everybody else games that are hard are hard for us but they're super good and fun for the people who are good at games. So these games have to be difficult

or they're just too easy for most people. We suck! We're the wrong metric! You do need randomness to overcome that though. Like sometimes it's nice to play a board game with my parents and they have a chance of winning through randomness you know not you know and that's that's fine. People quite like a bit of randomness, you know, not, you know, and that's, that's fine. Like people quite like randomness. It feels like a slot machine. Like, you know, your units come up in, in, uh, in, uh, Dota Underlords or Orchests or whatever. And it's like, oh shit, I just got a level two Terrablade on turn three. This is ridiculous. You know? And that's, that feeling is like hype. People quite like that bit of randomness. So it's like opening loot boxes and shit. You know, people love all that shit. They like a bit

of randomness. I think like what we did was like we, when and sips played terraform mars we went through this this phase though because we played it for a couple of nights and so we played like we played the first game we played we didn't know what we're doing second game we played was pretty good third game we played you know after we just finished it we were like okay these cards are terrible yeah you could start people were actually starting to get salty at outcomes by the third game. But then we brought like a new player in and he didn't really have it. He hadn't been through that learning experience.

And so he was like, always just going to lose every game to us. And because we discussed which cards were good and bad and stuff. And then the next game, we were like, we shouldn't really be using these cards because they just make the game unbalanced. And then we started changing the game. And at that point, I was like like let's fucking find a new game i mean it was like it was this weird process of of and it happened really quick you know as well because it was and it's not that simple of a game it's you know it's got fucking two decks of 200 cards each and they're all

different you know it's got lots of stuff in it. But we quite quickly realised how things looked and what was good and what was bad. And it felt like they hadn't balanced it necessarily very well. And maybe they couldn't. Like, I mean, that's the nice thing about digital things that have been around for a few years, that they've had, like, the ability to tweak and change and adjust them and balance them into something

which is more, I don't know, like, scratches those itches, is fair, but also is fun. You know i don't like you want a bit i don't know how um like a flax i could group you in this as well i don't know how people play the same game for as long as they do that always blows me away you know like uh people that like i used to play a lot of hearthstone and i so i'd watch a lot of people streaming it as well. And I haven't played Hearthstone for like the longest time. I haven't been interested in it in a long time or whatever. Hearthstone's been out for how many years now?

It's got to be like, what, seven? Six. Six or seven years. I thought it was five or six, but yeah. And some of these guys have been playing it like every day since it came out. Yeah. Like every day without fail came out yeah like every day without fail and yes sure some of them like stream it and they make a living off of it or whatever

but like holy fuck the amount of like the sheer amount of hours that they put into like that game i mean i put a lot of hours into hearthstone but nowhere near as many as like a lot of people sort of thing right and like you with dota like how many hours do you have in dota like 8 000 hours or something like that yeah oh it's crazy like i think the the most played game i have is dota and i'm not sure like how much of that is just leaving the client open during like tournaments and stuff and stuff like that not actually playing the game or whatever but even then like it it's like not even it's like oh just over a thousand hours like like i i seem to be i seem to cap out on a game at like three four hundred hours and that's like it has to be exceptionally good for me to play that much this was definitely a thing from wow

too even back in the day when i knew you weren't as hooked on wow as other people were in a sense like you were in the same boat, but you would just go away. You'd be like, oh, see you later. I'll see you in, like, six months. Yeah, yeah. And you'd just be gone. For, like, the next expansion or whatever, yeah. And it's like, I think that's a good thing, though.

I think, I don't know, I think there is something with the business, though. Because I feel like you, Pflax, you know, you do know that you do Dota for a living. You're a, you know, high-level commentator. You, you know, do know that you you you do dota for a living you're a you know high level commentator you know cast and host tournaments it's like it's like part of your income so you just to just to just to finish what i'm saying though i'm not i'm not using it as an excuse to say that's why i'm bad at games but i feel like if i played like the same game a lot more for example i'd be a bit better than i am now sort of thing but i get to a point with a game where i'm just like i just played this like way too much or

just enough and i'm ready to just move on to something else or whatever you know what i mean like so i'll have a lot of games that i have like a couple of hundred hours in and most of them are like you know dad games like oxygen not included and stuff like that right right uh but you know what i mean, like Oxygen Not Included and stuff like that. Right, right. But you know what I mean? Like, I get to a point where I'm just like, I've just done like as much as I really want to do in that game and I'm done. And I don't really want to play it again. Or like sometimes I'll feel like playing it again. You know, like something like Prison Architect or, you know, some shit like that.

I can come back to again after a couple of months and be like, yeah, sure, you know, whatever. I'll play this again sort of thing. But like an online competitive game, like I, whatever, I'll play this again, sort of thing. But like, like online competitive game, like, I don't know how people play that that much. Like, I guess there's like factors to it. But me personally, man, I would just burn out like so quickly. Me, it's for me, it's, if it was a single player game, I wouldn't be able to play it that much. I mean, the weird thing is

I'm not like a massive try hard um who spends all their time studying and thinking about and practicing and all that kind of stuff but when i do play games i really want to win like i really want to win everything that i that i play like i really enjoy winning but because i'm lazy i don't actually want to put in the work to improve or learn right so like when it comes to dota i every time I play it, I mean, I am getting very, very slightly better over the last seven years. But I mean, when I compare how I am now compared to five years ago, I was genuinely awful. But now I mean, like I'm average, like I'm an average Dota player.

Sometimes do some good stuff, sometimes do some bad stuff, but pretty average. But given that I'm old as fuck and learn a brand new game from scratch, I don't think that's too bad. And you think about when you're 18 or 19 and you're obsessed with something, it's a lot easier to just absorb every aspect of it and throw yourself in. I see my kids doing it. My eldest is really into games, and when she wants to learn something, she'll get every source of knowledge she can

about it, absorb it, read it. She's reading it while she's having breakfast. She's reading it as soon as she gets home from school.

We haven't sent her out to work yet. And, you know, she's watching videos about it. She's obsessed. So her current thing she really wants to play

at the moment is actually Dota. Right. And I know that if she really, she wants to play against bots and that's all

I'll let her do until she's like probably about 15. Because it's so toxic. Definitely won't let her use a microphone. Oh my God. But so she, I know that when she starts playing Dota, which she inevitably will, she's going to be way better than me in like two years.

Like way better. The reactions will be there. What do you mean two years? Two days? No, no, no. It takes a long time. No, no, no. You're overreacting yourself. No, I'm telling you. You're an old no no it takes a long time no no no you're overreacting yourself

no I'm telling you it takes a long time to learn oh my hands are all arthritic I don't know how I can still play daughter she's not gonna

the thing is she will sit and read the patch notes like that's the kind of stuff that I can imagine her reading she is a massive nerd bless her and she will

100% love reading about every single hero and all the counters and all the spells and all the details and all the interactions, and it will all be stored in her Galactus brain to remember. But it does still take time to just learn everything, because there's some stuff you just haven't seen. Like juke spots and all that kind of stuff, and all kinds of little things, like snatching the Aegis the first time you do that, timing it just right, knowing where the enemy team is, it's all experience.

That's not Twitch reactions, That's literally just experience of, oh shit, I've never lost a game that way and now I know. You know what I mean? So yeah, I reckon in two years she'll be able to crush me when she starts. Are you hoping to train her into a future... I'm hoping not to train her. I really don't want to affect her with any of my bad habits. So what I want to do is... Yeah, she won't have a chance of flex trains. She'll need to be trained by somebody good. What I wanted to do is learn the game by playing against bots

so that she understands the controls and basically what some of the heroes do. And then to just start playing games and see if she gets better. Watch people play. You know, I'd be happy for her to watch tournaments. Like, I'd put it on the TV if there's a tournament on. And I'll watch it on Twitch on my telly.

And they love it. The kids are glued to the screen. She loves it. And she's got a million questions. So she's super into it. But if a new game came along now, it would have to be really fucking good for me to react like that.

Like, exceptionally good to knock Dota off that list for me as the best game. I don't know how... I don't know. I literally... I want to play it straight after we finish this. i i will like i'm going to start streaming and play dota but so what is it is it you you i get that you genuinely genuinely want to play it and you

enjoy it and stuff but do you feel partly invested in it too like you feel like no not not at all i don't feel like this is for my living the amount of time that you've invested in that game does that sometimes put you off trying other games where you're like i don't want to play this game because i don't want to get into it because i'm already into this other game like does that ever factor in no like sometimes i've taken two weeks off playing dota like i played like when i played xcom yeah i fucking loved xcom right and i streamed it all the time yeah like i'd stream at the weekend and for like eight hours just xcom uh every morning every evening xcom xx xcom and i literally just took an extended break from that

because xcom was so good but i can't just keep playing that over and over again because it's it's too samey doter it feels like a different game every time and when when you pull off a game winning play or when you you're about to lose and you turn it around it's too exciting like winning a really close game of dota there's nothing like it yeah um so in games you know obviously sex is better and being really drunk and stuff like that but i mean in terms of games very specific yeah yeah i don't know man i think owning noobs on the uh internet though is like definitely up there fucking noobs do you reckon if you were into something else like in a big way your daughter would be into that in the big way um do you think

it's just because you're doing it that she's no no no she she is very contrary like she's into pokemon i hate pokemon i've told her i hate pokemon she still loves pokemon she she's very willful she likes something that's it she doesn't care what you think or if she doesn't like something she's like no not doing it you're like it she doesn't care what you think or if she doesn't like something she's like no not doing it but it's really no do you reckon she would have even

heard of Dota if it wasn't for you no probably not but I mean she's seen me play other games and be like what are you playing

and I tell her and she goes huh no interest she's really interested in card games that I play like when I play

magic or something or artifacts she quite likes those because she likes cards right she likes Pokemon cards she collects cards so she's interested in card games Yeah, she's we had a poker home game and she watches play poker and she really liked that

She wanted to play straight away and I was like, well, we're playing for money sweetheart. So you should probably One of those like green see-through visor things on and a cigarette hanging out of your mouth. Smoke hanging, a pool of smoke at the table. I'm not kidding. You got any money? Me and the boys are playing for money. You pour it out like a glass of whiskey and you're like, see what this tastes like.

If you can handle this, then maybe you can handle the game. Wow, that's a whole other level. Get my 10-year-old drunk and steal her pocket money at the poker table. You're ready for parenthood, Lewis. I tell you what, my friend, with that attitude. It's going to be good. So I think that's, I mean, there's something very physical. Does she collect the physical Pokemon cards?

Yeah. So there's something very nice about like board games in a sense that just holding a dice or a card in your hands, like there is something that transcends like the the i mean it's not even not like in vr it's not it's not quite the same you know there's something strangely you can play a lot worse of a game is what i'm saying on like a table with friends but i think it goes to what you were saying about um why people like and what sips was us is how do people play Underlords and how do they play whatever the League one is called and all this stuff?

How do they do it? It's so random, but it feels like collecting. I guess so, yeah. It feels like doing some kind of Pokemon style, got to catch them all, collecting shit. Like if you showed me the Pokemon mobile game, Pokemon Go a few years ago and said this is going to be massive, I would have said, what?

It's ridiculous. Just walk around and click on a thing. It's stupid. But people still play that shit yeah people love random bonuses happening that they feel like they've won something even though it's just stuff on a screen it's weird i feel like uh in a game like dota or like a game like csgo i feel like um i feel like the skill curve is more understandable you know what what I mean? I feel like I understand that there's things that you could do to become mechanically better at aspects of those games.

Whereas something like team fight tactics or Dota Underlords, like auto chess. It doesn't feel like it's in your control. Yeah, I feel like you get to a point where you're just sort of like, okay, I can only use so much and then I really just have to luck out. Like even with the best strategies and the best foresight or whatever i really have to get lucky at certain points and like maybe there's an element of that to dota in counter-strike you know in dota you might be setting up for big team fight you might luck out that one of their guys is out of position or

something like that yeah but you feel like you have a lot more control over it just with raw skill you know like yeah i mean if you look at the guys that are really, really good in Dota, they're so much better. And they're consistently so much better that there is I mean, there's a very obvious skill gap between me and say, miracle, right? There's no luck element there. He's just so much better than me. And his reactions and the the way he can assess what's happening on the screen in a microsecond, whereas it takes me a good length of time to sort of... the old brain delay thinking, you know, what's happening here? Or what are we, you know, it's like there's a, my brain is processing things a lot more

slowly than his is when it comes to Dota. That is a skill. That's something you could practice. Like he's done nothing for 10 years, but play Dota basically. He's got thousands of hours in it. And I guess a game like Auto Chess, that experience and ability counts for something, too. Being able to read the board,

like being able to sort of read a game of poker and stuff. But there is more luck to it than Dota, I think. I think so, yeah. I'm just like, it's a weird one because I've been playing it a lot recently. I'm just trying to like, I'm trying to, I feel like I'm done with it. Maybe I'm not like totally done with it.

It's interesting, but I don't know It's frustrating. Here's the thing, right? I I wonder like these people who play hearthstone every day and every day what they what they miss out on and obviously they they they're missing out on the big portion of Things okay, and God knows what it is like from it from a sense of like you're not you know Going to social events or doing pottery class or hanging out with friends. I don't know.

Time is like a resource, okay? And you spend it on the things you want to spend it on. But just within gaming, I think that I've found that through doing like today I played and playing different games, there is like a limit. So when I try to play a different game every day, I find that I end up playing quite a lot of similar shit or quite a lot of bad shit and well i guess playing a lot of games every day you you probably are acutely aware of like the current trends in

gaming as well because if you're playing a lot of similar stuff you know that everybody is just like oh this is the new like fucking genre that everybody needs to be playing so you all of a sudden you probably notice like a massive influx of like samey games or whatever you know what talking about games reminded me there's a story that uh that tom tells he told me because him and ben used to play games in bristly that's how they met right was playing board games and stuff like that like i i didn't know hit that tom and ben go back as far as they did but way before all this stuff, they used to play games. And they used to go to this games club. And there's a game called Starfleet battles. Have you ever heard of it? No. Yeah. Okay, so it's a board game with a hex map. It's all paper tokens. And they've never made an online version of it that's

any good as far as I can tell. But it's super nerdy. And I love playing it. And it's very technical. And you have your grid your hex map and you've got your units and then you've also got a sort of sideboard piece that's like a cut out a paper cut out of your ship and it's got all this you know they've got this many photon banks and this many phaser banks like a grid yeah it's like a piece of graph exactly and when you take damage you have to cross off systems and stuff like that in certain orders, depending on where the damage has come from. And you can select where the damage goes. You can repair stuff. You've got damage control, et cetera, et cetera.

But the other thing is you have to assign energy. So you've got your reactor and you assign energy to parts of your ship. So I'm going to put it all into the forward shields because he's in front of me more into the forward shields. And we're going to have some impulse power and some warp power and all this kind of stuff. And there's like life support and all the rest of it so tom had just sat down to this game so we wanted to play this game he didn't really know how to play just picked it up the guy explained the rules and they got all the board they got everything set up they got everything ready it's taken a while to get everything together explain the rules and they sit down

and the guy's like right everybody assigned you know it's assign our energy and he does and because tom hasn't played it before he forgets to assign any energy to life support so the turn starts and the guy says right you didn't assign any energy to life support your crew is dead and he was like oh sorry can we do the guy goes no no that's it he's like okay game over the guy won that was that and tom was like fuck this because like the guy just took the win against a brand new player rather than actually just say, oh, yeah, yeah, just take a point off energy and you're just learning the game. The guy just took the win. And I think a lot of people play games like that

because to them winning is so much more important than having fun. It's the same in Hearthstone and anything else. They play against a newer player when the new season starts and they roll them with their disgusting deck and the guy has no answer and has no idea what he's doing. And they love that.

I meet people like that all the time. Yeah. They're called cunts. Yes, but they exist. They have to have fun too. Lewis, think about the cunts. They exist, but we actively ignore them and work hard to not invite them to anything ever

or shun them from events. Right, of course. I hate those kind of people. They exist, though. They exist all the time. It's amazing how many people like that I meet as well. Like, you will not, like, do the most amazing, like, things that just boggle your mind.

You know, like, they have no social skills whatsoever. Yeah. They live for that win. And they're probably going to go write it in their little fucking Starfleet Battles diary. Won a game today when this complete noob forgot to assign any power to life support lol plus one for me in the win column just just take the w and he's happy with that doesn't want to actually play you know doesn't want a competitive game just wants the w it's just that's people man that's

the same people that will not back up when you're going down a cul-de-sac and they come the other way arms folded they're just going to take the w you either back up when you're going down a cul-de-sac and they come the other way, arms folded. They're just going to take the W. You either back up. They don't care if they have to spend five hours there and the police are called and they're banging on the window. They're not moving. That's a loss. Sometimes, though, like it's the opposite, right? You meet this guy and you play with him and he is like discussing like every move. You know, he'll be like, oh, OK, so you're thinking this.

So I'm thinking this. And it's almost like you're doing training or something together you know because it's kind of like you're you're you're playing against each other but you're also playing with each other in a sense that you're you're it's weird like weirdly yeah not competitive playing games with ben is like that because i've played games with ben and he's like okay here's how the game works and every move you do he'll say right you've got to remember, blah, blah, blah. And don't forget, you could have done this. Like he really is helpful. And I think the reason is that Ben actually wants a good game.

And that's all I want ever is a good game. Like when I play Dota, I want it to be two even teams and we go against each other. That's why I hate Smurfs so much. That's why I hate cheats so much is because I just want a really good close even game. And win or lose lose that's fine like I'm going to try my best to win but if we lose a close game or win a close game it feels the same to me we had a good game and that that's the essence of it but for some people winning is much more important even if they have to cheat or take advantage of your lack of skill to do that

there's something nice in in having a pure game yeah and it's when you have, like, most games you can kind of play, even if you're quite new to them, you can think, okay, I'm going to collect germs. I'm going to collect all the plants and terraform Mars with plants. That's going to be my strategy. And you're going to go down that route. And if it doesn't pan out, then RNG or whatever, or just I didn't do it well enough or whatever.

I missed an opportunity or I didn't draw this card or I didn't do that you know you can kind of most games have that thing and it feels like you can I like games like like like like like board games some board games don't work like Monopoly doesn't work because people get kicked out and and then it's not inclusive the best games are the ones where you don't quite know until right yeah yeah everybody's in it till the end and then you tally up scores or whatever I don't like I don't quite know until right at the end. Yeah, everybody's in it till the end, and then you tally up scores or whatever. I don't like board games where someone gets knocked out. I hate that. That's why I hate playing tournament poker.

Like, I want to play cash poker, so that if I get knocked out, I can just buy back, and the game continues. I just want to be playing the game. You know what I mean? That's why... Yeah. That's the essence of a good game,

is it should be... There can be a leader, but it's not like you're out, you can't win. I think it works better for different games. But a game like Monopoly, I think it's impossible to have a good game, right? Yes, it's impossible. Like Monopoly by design is that everybody is just a cunt, right? It's meant to be, right?

Yeah. So it's a different game. But like something like Terraforming Mars, like I would never dream of sort of being so no nope the turn is over no you can't redo that you can't do you know what i mean like you're sitting around a table with your friends playing a game like it's not i don't know i want to meet those people and find out more about them you know i want to don't you want to talk to them i've said this as well when i used to play apex i want to meet people who fucking install aimbots and cheat and stuff i want to meet like one person who who actually has gone out of their way to do that and yeah what

what are they enjoying playing like five games before their account gets bent like it's yeah who does that like like is it are they sad are they embarrassed about it are they unapologetic about it is it really weirdapologetic about it? Yeah, it's really weird, isn't it? Do they actually get a thrill from cheating more than they do from the victory? Are they just trolling? What is going on? What is their regular life?

Are they perfectly normal people everywhere else? Because I've written an article about these people who online troll, but you wouldn't know they're online trolls. Perfectly normal people. They have jobs and families and responsibilities. Everybody says they're a trustworthy person. But when they're on the internet, they just go out of their way to troll people. Right.

Like that's what they like. They just turn into a monster online. Weird, isn't it? It's really weird. Yeah. I don't know. I feel like if I met some of these people face-to-face, instantly it would click. The minute they open their mouth, I'd be like, yeah, okay.

I can see why you do the things that you do sort of thing but maybe i'm wrong maybe i'm wrong yeah but you know what i mean i just get that sense that there's like a type out there and like i have this feeling that i've met this type of person before and i've chosen not to surround myself by these types of people as well but i could be wrong like you said it maybe it's just like a regular ordinary person that i you know that i work with that i really like but then when they get home and they they got their gamer tag on it's just like they're a completely different person they're it's they're impossible to know did you guys watch uh black mirror the new series no i haven't seen any black mirror yeah ever have you played Striking Vipers? Do you want to go on it tonight?

Okay, thanks. Okay, but I get to be the dude. Pretty good. I sent you that VR thing, right? So one of the episodes, this guy sends a game to his buddy to play Striking Vipers, which is basically Mortal Kombat, right? Right.

But it's the VR version of Striking Vipers and it's super immersive. You, right? But it's the VR version of Striking Vipers. And it's super immersive. You put this on and it's like you're in the game. So when you get punched, it hurts. Like you can feel the impact and stuff, but you can do all the moves. So you're like transformed into this super agile ninja or whatever. But he picks his character, which is this dude. And his friend, as usual, picks his character, which is like this hot woman.

And they sort of start fighting. And then as they're fighting at the end, they each other right and it's like oh shit and they they come out of the game like oh my god what happened and then they start having wild sex every night when they play this game before realizing holy shit what's happening like are we gay but they try and the guy the guy quits and he's his friend is like i've tried having sex with all kinds of people he's like i even had sex with the bear character with the bear because he's just trying to find this thrill and all it's basically The whole game is ten of this big orgy So all these people that are playing the multiplayer games get together in like 4v4 matches and just have sex and that sounds like the most

Awkward TV show ever. I how can you watch? It's it's a really good episode it's actually quite well done so wait so they're all like independent episodes of each other right yeah similar format to like uh goosebumps where it's like or like twilight zone or something yeah it's like each episode has like a weird sort of theme to it and like the theme might be if you don't get enough likes on your on your youtube video you'll die or something like that or like just some dumb shit like that right yeah it's generally i'd say black mirror is categorized as near future or present and tech fear like fear of technology and and like maybe we're taking this

too far and some cautionary stuff and looking at the extremes of current technology and sort of trends so is it is it good though worth? Absolutely fantastic. It really is. Like there are some duffers in there, you know, like the old Twilight Zones or whatever, there was some absolute honkingly bad episodes. But they're generally really, really good. Like Black Mirror is a great- There's no like continuity between the episodes. There's no like art or anything.

No, no, no, they're completely standalone. I mean, the most recent series is really good. Well, there's actually he said there's actually references to like crossovers. Like sometimes you can see little snippets of across, because they're all apparently in the same universe. Yeah, yeah. Because I know like, I keep referencing Goosebumps

because it's the only show that I can think of that's anything like, I'd never watched Twilight Zone or anything. But like, I think in Goosebumps, they used to have like company names and stuff like that would be the same. So the universe stuff would be intact, but the characters and stuff were always different. Anyway, I think what P-Flex was getting at was that he'd rather bang Ben in a video game than just some random guy. Or maybe you learn it in a video game and a guy just punch one shots you in the face

instead of like, you're like leaning in for a kiss and he just sucker punches you. Get the fuck off me. No, I can't remember how we got onto it, but I thought it was a really funny episode. Are you jealous of the fact that I said Ben is cool and I didn't say you're cool, Lewis?

Absolutely. Absolutely. I just know, I just, if I was loading up Striking Vipers and Ben was there, just saying, you know, if I was loading up Striking Vipers and Ben was there, just saying, you know, maybe the future is different kinds of love. So in Striking Vipers, the hot girl character that he played,

which hot girl character did he play that resembles the most, like a Street Fighter 2 character? Like are we talking like Cammy? She was like the Chun-Li kind of Yeah, Cammy, more like Cammy or Chun-Li, yeah, that kind of character I'm just trying to visualize I'm probably going to watch

Oh really, this might help out later Yeah, help me later Make sure to wash it off though Yeah, I'll get my disinfectant soap Don't leave it on the Dildinfect We need to come up with a

cool name for dildo disinfectant dildo wash like dild dildy clean dildoff it's got to be a catchy name I feel like there's I think dildoff directed the latest

Black Mirror series with dildo cleanser there's a... I think Dildolf directed the latest Black Mirror series. I feel like there's a market we can corner here with Dildo Cleanser. There's got to be a cool name that we come up with. You know, like VIPoo. I thought that was so clever. What's VIPoo? It's like this fucking thing that you spray in the toilet. If you're like at a party or something, you take a shit.

Because, you know, when you're at a party, you might need to take a shit. Because I guess you didn't take a shit before you left your house to go to the party or whatever so there you are at somebody's fancy beverly hills house party yeah you're in this unfortunate position whereby holy fuck i need to take a shit right now in this person's in this mansion's bathroom so in you go you drop a real stinker and then you have the vip you spray it in the bowl and it traps the smell inside the toilet bowl so that when the next person comes in they can't tell that you've just dropped a uh a steamy one ahead of them wow that's a very specific market yes because i mean you'd have to assume your friends don't have air freshener in the bathroom and if it's a fancy house, why wouldn't it?

I think it creates like some sort of membrane or something. Like it's, yeah, look it up. VI poo. It's called VI poo. I'm surprised you've never heard of this. I've already carried around wet wipes. I don't want to add to my bank of toiletries. Well, I mean, guys, Yongkon's coming up and, you and you know there's gonna be a lot of people there

there's gonna be at least a dozen people there who are like i really look up to these guys and they might not look up to you so much anymore if they go into the bathroom after you've just been in there you've decimated it you've had like too many ciders or whatever and you're coming out you're like uh you're going in there oh yeah i was i need to go to the bath i'd give it 35 45 minutes before i'd go in there realistically i don't have any respect for this man maybe you're right because we're sitting down like the stuff we carry in our pockets because you know i've got like a card for my my apartment i could just beep the card on the door and i've instead of keys and i've got like on my phone i can have my cards on my phone now so i don't really need a wallet so i mean i'm like i'm running with like two less pieces of kit than i used to so if i fill those up with a little spray vipoo yeah and sweat wipes i think

that i have a better you know what i'm surprised by as well like uh you know cyberpunk is coming out pretty soon and you know like well next year well what you know soonish anyway oh and you know that you had games like deus ex and games that that deal with you know augmenting your your body artificially but making it better right and i'm surprised nobody's decided to see where this is going add like an another sort of bit of skin to your tummy area, like a flap, like a kangaroo flap. I think you're talking about a colostomy bag. No, no. I'm talking about like a pouch that they stitch on to the front of your stomach.

Okay. But it can like camouflage sort of thing. So they put like the belly button on the outside of the pouch so that if you took somebody's shirt off, you would never be able to tell that there was a pouch there but you could just lift this little flap put your passport in there maybe like the card for your apartment you know like if you got mugged you didn't there's certain things on you that you didn't want anybody to find you know like if you're walking down the street in the hood or whatever and you got like a wad of cash you put it in your sock right so that

when somebody mugs you they're like give up the goods and you're like i wad of cash, you put it in your sock, right? So that when somebody mugs you, they're like, give up the goods. And you're like, I don't have anything on me though. And everybody, the situation is so intense that they forget to check your shoe and your sock. And that's where all your stuff is. So you're basically saying

you want a cybernetic bum bag. Yeah, like a cybernetic kangaroo pouch that you can hide valuables in on your body. I got a few questions here. Number one, that's going to get pretty smelly in there pretty quick. You're talking about an armpit on your stomach. Yeah. That's not good.

Well, it could be another deterrent. It's like a part of the defense system. The other problem is... All right, I know you've got a kangaroo pouch. Let's look at... Oh, you carry like a fucking spray in your other pouch to keep your belly pouch smelling fresh. It's like when people say

that you should be able to get your bank details, you know, just go beep with your thumb and that unlocks your account. If you do that, people are just going to cut your thumb off. Like I want that stuff. No, but see, again, people aren't just going to be cutting people's thumbs off left, right and centre.

Really? In the near future when half the country is broke as shit and they're going to be cutting thumbs. Your thumbs are going to be off in a heartbeat. Yeah, well you know what? They're going to go straight to your bank. You get a fake thumb with your fingerprint on it and you hide it in your human kangaroo pouch. Nobody will find it. I don't need my fucking thumbs. I'm not a console gamer.

I just WSAD in mouse-A-D and mouse control. Have you tried using a mouse without a thumb? You need to use your thumb print for identification, though. That's what, you know. So you need your thumb for that. But if your thumb gets cut off, you could make sure that you have a backup thumb that you hide in your kangaroo pouch

that nobody will ever be able to find. I feel like that's a win. That's enough podcast. Jesus Christ we'll see you next week thanks everybody bye thanks see you later

bye