TRIGGERnometry - "$250,000 on Surgery to Become Korean. I Regret It" - Oli London

Episode Date: December 22, 2022

SPONSORED BY: Ridge Wallet. Get up to 40% off with our link https://www.ridge.com/TRIGGER from now until December 22nd! After this time, use code 'TRIGGER' for 10% off! SPONSORED BY: easyDNS - domain name registrar provider and web host. Use special code: TRIGGERED for 50% off when you visit https://easydns.com/triggered/ Oli London provoked outraged headlines last year when he publicly identified as Korean. Going on to identify as a woman, he spent $250,000 on plastic surgery. But now, he’s had a change of heart… Join our exclusive TRIGGERnometry community on Locals! https://triggernometry.locals.com/ OR Support TRIGGERnometry Here: https://www.subscribestar.com/triggernometry https://www.patreon.com/triggerpod Bitcoin: bc1qm6vvhduc6s3rvy8u76sllmrfpynfv94qw8p8d5 Music by: Xentric | [e-mail] | https://www.xentricapc.com/ | Channel ID: UCo_8zzSxKeL3arKWVuP8wdQ Buy Merch Here: https://www.triggerpod.co.uk/shop/ Advertise on TRIGGERnometry: [e-mail] Join the Mailing List: https://www.triggerpod.co.uk/sign-up/ Find TRIGGERnometry on Social Media:  https://twitter.com/triggerpod​​​/ https://www.facebook.com/triggerpod/ https://www.instagram.com/triggerpod/ About TRIGGERnometry:  Stand-up comedians Konstantin Kisin (@konstantinkisin) and Francis Foster (@francisjfoster) make sense of politics, economics, free speech, AI, drug policy and WW3 with the help of presidential advisors, renowned economists, award-winning journalists, controversial writers, leading scientists and notorious comedians. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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legacybox.com slash keeps a safe. I didn't get it because I was thinking, you know, if someone can change their agenda, which for many women can be very offensive, you know, why can't I say I'm Korean, I'm not hurting anyone? I've got to a point now where I realize that wasn't making me happy. It was an addiction. I've thankfully beat that addiction. I think you're actually incredibly brave because you did all this in public and then within

a very short period of time said, actually, no, this is wrong. Interestingly enough in Korea and China, a lot of people have surgery to emulate Caucasian features, so a higher nose bridge, double eyelid surgery, so I don't understand why people, you know, have an issue with me having these surgeries to look Korean when everyone in Korea is trying to look, you know, westernized. When you just give a kid a phone and they have unlimited access to the internet, what are they seeing on TikTok? And if they're seeing that from age three till they're a teenager, you know, that's 10 years of indoctrination. We should support all people, but, you know, keep you. kids shouldn't be, you know, forced or pressurized to do this from kindergarten. I wanted to cut it off completely to transition to become a woman.

And is that one of the points where you went, okay, maybe this is starting to get that. Yeah, I was thinking, you know, that's something I could regret. I might miss that one. There's a balance that needs to be struck between the rights of the individual and also as well, realizing that this is a mental illness. Absolutely. Are you tired of using bulky old wallets giving you a bulge where you don't want it to be? My old wallet was massive, so it brought all the ladies to the yard, which was a huge distraction

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I'm Francis Foster. I'm Constantine Kishen. And this is a show for you if you want honest conversations with fascinating people. Our guest today is an online personality who's best known for transitioning to being Korean and then most recently detransitioning back.

Ollie London, welcome to Trigonometry. Thanks very much. It's a real pleasure to be here with you guys. People who won't know your story will might be quite shocked by what I just said. It sounds a bit crazy. It does sound a little crazy. So before we get into the conversation itself, for anyone who doesn't know who you are, didn't follow your story, who are you, how are you where you are? What has been the journey through life that leads you to be sitting here talking to us?

By the way, our first in-person recording in the studio. So welcome. Wow. I feel so blessed to be the first person. And beautiful studio, by the way, guys. So I'm Olly London. And for those people out there that don't know me, I'm a social media personality. I do Instagram, TikTok, YouTube.

I also am a K-pop singer. So I released my own Korean pop music. Some of it's in English. Some of it's in Korean. And a lot of people know me for my extreme obsession with Korea, which I've kind of got over now. I've kind of moved on from that. But I was very obsessed with Korea. I used to live in South Korea for a year.

And I became infatuated with a specific K-pop star called Jimin. and I model myself on him, so I started having surgery to look like him, and then I got to a point where I was, you know, kind of getting addicted to the surgery, and I thought, maybe I can be Korean. I love Korea. Why not? Everyone else can make their own pronouns and genders and identities these days, so why not? And obviously, I got some hate for that, and, you know, I've kind of grown from that and trying to learn, and, you know, now I'm trying to just be myself.

Yeah. Well, it's a lot to take it. It's a little bit more complicated than that, isn't it? Because, I mean, you spent a shit ton of money and you had loads. Like, there's surgeries that I could probably need to do that aren't cosmetic. Right. That I'm like, you know what? I'll do that when I really have. Do you know what I mean?

Most people avoid having surgery. You had a lot of them in a short period of time. You spent, according to some people, like a quarter of a million dollars doing it. And also, as you say, you pissed off a lot of people, particularly Korean people who were like, well, you can't just transition to being Korea. You know, you can't just like be another ethnicity, nationality. So why did you want to be Korean or this particular part? Did you want to be Korean or did you want to be like this guy?

What was the rationale? It started out. I was living in Korea for a year. And then slowly over time, I just became really in love with Korean culture. And I felt really happy. For the first time in my life, when I lived that, I felt like I belonged somewhere. I felt like I fitted in. And, you know, Korean people accepted me.

And I wanted to be a part of that. And it's actually not very unusual what I did because foreigners that live in Korea, they all get the surgery, they all change their hair, they start speaking Korean, they start acting Korean, everyone does it in Korea. It's just like an addiction. K-pop is such an incredible phenomenon. And if anyone that's lived in Korea, they fall for this. And, you know, they want to be Korean.

They might not say it publicly like me, but they all feel that way. They all try to identify that way. And they even become Korean citizens as well. So, you know, the Koreans actually didn't really get pissed off at me. Do they not? They were actually, even to say, this day, they're very grateful that I'm always promoting their culture. Sometimes they think, okay, he's a bit wacky, but you know, he's fun, he's entertaining people, he's spreading

K-pop. But really it was kind of more of the woke culture that took offence to me, you know. Oh, did they? But, you know, I find that weird because they're the same people that preach about acceptance, about, you know, not judging people, about anyone can identify however they they feel inside. And, you know, I generally had an affinity with Korea. And I was like, why not, you know, everyone else can identify. Some people actually identify as clowns and they use clown pronouns. And it's like, yeah, it's true. What are clown pronouns?

Uh, circus, I guess. Pronouns that I use are they, them, she, her, and clown self. This is Cyprus. And Cloud mentioned not having people use Clown or Clown self pronouns for Clown. And so in this situation, I would make sure that I exclusively use Clown pronouns to talk about Cyprus. So Cyprus knows that I see clown's self for who clown is, and I want clown to be hearing those pronouns more than the other ones out of my mouth. So like I thought if someone can identify as a clown, you know, why can't I identify as

Korean? What's the harm in that? Right. And of course, you know, it had a backlash. And, you know, I didn't get it at the time. Now I kind of understand it more. But I didn't get it because I was thinking, you know, if someone can change their gender, which for many ways, women can be very offensive. You know, why can't I say I'm Korean? I'm not hurting anyone. I'm doing something that makes me happy and I'm showing my love for a particular culture. What was it about Korea that made you fall in love with their culture? Well, there's so many aspects. If you're in Korea, it's the music, it's the Korean dramas, it's the people, it's just the whole culture as a whole, the history. It's a beautiful country,

rich in kind of history and it's just an incredible place. So there's so many aspects. But yeah, really the people I fell in love with, the way they looked, but also the way they behaved and the way they act, they're very kind and sweet. And yeah, I did thought, you know, I was always unhappy in my looks. I thought I want to look a different way. Why can't I look Korean? Why can't I look like a pop star like Jamin to feel happier inside? And I've got to a point now where I realized that wasn't making me happy. So now I'm just trying to be myself and, you know, I'm the happiest I've ever been. Why were you unhappy of your looks, Ollie? So when I was a teen at school I was bullied, like all the time, every day. Like, some days I wouldn't go to school. I would

try and make myself sick, so I didn't have to go to school, but my mum would still make me go to school. In which, she was doing the right thing. She didn't realize I was getting bullied. But yeah, I used to get bullied. You know, people had had a really big nose. I used to have very bad acne and very bad skin. So that really led me to have severe self-confidence issues, you know, self-esteem issues. And I just felt really bad about myself. So when I had an opportunity in Korea to have surgery, you know, there were surgeries literally everywhere. I was like, you know, maybe I can actually be happy. Maybe I can look good.

You know, maybe people can look at me and think, oh, he looks handsome or he looks nice. So you had, so how did it start? Because is it right to almost frame this as an addiction to plastic surgery that you had? You know, I'll admit it. It was an addiction. Yes, I'll admit it now. Thankfully, I'm pretty much over that addiction. I'm not considering any more surgeries.

I'm kind of just trying to be content with who I am. And there's a lot of surgeries I regret, you know, I don't have much movement in my face. I actually have metal in my face and my chin. My chin was broken and my cheeks. So there's things that I regret. And, you know, I can't take back the past. It was an addiction. I've thankfully beat that addiction.

But, you know, is it any wonder people get these addictions with things like social media that, you know, kind of feed this. We have the Kardashians. We have K-pop stars. And, you know, they all have surgery. They don't like to admit it. They all have surgery. 90% of K-pop stars do.

And, you know, it's become a norm. So is it any wonder people fall for this addiction? Yeah, well, you know, I should say a couple of things first. The first thing I should say is that I think you're actually incredibly brave because you did all this in public and then within a very short period of time said, actually, no, this is wrong. And you're now speaking out about transitioning and all of this other stuff that we'll go on to talk about. So while, you know, I'll be honest with you, five months or six months or wherever it was ago when the story, the story. first came up in the news. You know, Francis and I do this satirical comedy show three nights a week called Raw. And this guy from London decided to be Korean. We were taking the piss because it's

kind of, it's a crazy story. Of course. But I actually think that, you know, you should know that when Francis and I are asking you about this, I think your story is probably wackier than most in terms of the type of transition that you went through. But it's actually quite emblematic, I think, of what a lot of people are potentially being exposed to because you talk about being bullied, you know, when I was a teenager, there were kids around me who would have been bullied every day and didn't want to go to school.

But none of them decided at that time that they needed to transition and be something else because it just wasn't available. And you mentioned social media. Where did you get the idea that the answer to your problems would be to change yourself physically? Well, it firstly started in Korea.

You are inundated with billboards absolutely everywhere. When there's more plastic surgeries than there are supermarkets in Korea, it's literally insane. The district in Gangnam, which is kind of the plastic surgery capital of the world, there's probably about a thousand clinics within a square mile. That's how crazy is. So it's basically, it was kind of put in your face everywhere that you can look perfect, you can look beautiful, and everyone in Korea was doing it. And I had that self-esteem issue. I was so unhappy. And I thought, maybe I can be happy as well. Maybe I can look like that billboard. Maybe I can look like that advertisement. And, you know,

we see that a lot across Asia, you know, plastic surgery is a booming business. And interestingly enough, in Korea and China, a lot of people have surgery to emulate Caucasian features. So a higher nose bridge, double eyelid surgery. So what I was doing was obviously different. And it only started as a nose surgery. I just wanted to fix my nose and then it kind of became an addiction. But what I've been doing is kind of the reverse of what's been going on in Asia. So I don't understand why people, you know, have an issue with me having these surgeries to look Korean when everyone in Korea is trying to look, you know, westernized. That's such a good point because obviously they do do that.

The thing that I worry about, maybe I'm getting old now, but I just think, you are. Yeah, that is true. You still look great. Thank you, Ollie. But where's the duty of care for the surgeons and their clients? How do they discern that this is an operation that is needed and is merited? And how do they discern that, you know, that this person is ill?

Maybe they have body dysmorphia. Maybe you were not doing the right thing by your patient. So a credible doctor would actually have a psychologist on hand. So with a good doctor, you would have a psychology appointment before the surgery, a consultation, which would be about an hour long and it would go really in depth to your family history, any issues with substance abuse, any issues with body dysmorphia. So you go through all that. Not every doctor has that, though. It depends what country. No, I've had surgery, I think about six or seven countries. I can't remember. So I kind of go around the world because, you know, the UK, the doctors are quite strict and they weren't really telling me what I wanted to hear. So I was going to foreign country.

So what were they telling you? What does that mean? A lot of them were saying no. Like some doctors wouldn't perform a nose surgery on me because I'd already had my nose done and they didn't want to do revisions. They said it's too risky. Or some of them were just too conservative. And, you know, I wanted kind of an unusual look and they wouldn't give that. So, you know, I found a way to find somewhere that would do it. You know, I was going all over the world. And, and, you know, And, you know, I think young people, if they really want to do something, they do find a way. And, you know, I have found in the past doctors via Instagram, you know, one of the doctors, I nearly died. Like I had a gynacomastity, which was removing all the fat from my chest.

And basically, I was in agony. I couldn't move for days and days and days. And I had these tubes inside my body to drain the blood. And without warning, I didn't even know they were there, to be honest, without warning, he ripped them out one day. I had no morphine and stuff. I was literally in agony. I was like shaking so much. And that was in Armenia. So, you know, I'd gone to that country because I couldn't find a doctor here that would do what I wanted.

So I think that's the risk. Young people will find a way to get these surgeries and there's not always checks and balances. So I would say from experience, you know, for young people, they're really, really sure about something. Think about it for a few years. You know, if a girl wants to get breasts as a woman or someone wants to change in those. If it's really been on their mind, go to a good doctor. You know, don't kind of skip things and go to like a doctor that will just say yes to everything, because that's where things can go wrong.

And so moving through, you've had these different surgeries to make you look more Korean. And then when do you go, you know what, I'm not sure I should have done this. How does that happen? Well, actually, it kind of developed, because I got to a point, I had more surgery last year. I had so many surgeries.

I think I went under the knife three times last year. I had the eye surgery, and that's when I said, you know, I feel Korean. Why not? If everyone else can identify different ways. And then earlier this year, I actually underwent 11 surgeries in one day. And, you know, I'm very happy with the results now. It made my face at the time more feminine. And, you know, I was unhappy still.

And I thought maybe I'm trapped in the wrong body. And it sounds crazy. But, you know, I became trans for well because my whole life, you know, I was always a bit more feminine. I didn't fit in. And I generally thought, you know, if society is saying, oh, it's normal to transition and stuff. I kind of fell for that.

And I was like, okay, maybe I'm meant to be a woman. Well, may I stop you that? Sorry. You say society saying it's normal to transition. How did you get that impression? Because we all live in our own bubbles now, don't we? Like, the bubble that I live in, I don't think that is the common thread. Do you know what I mean?

So when you say society says it's normal to transition, what do you mean? So basically, if you go online on any social media platform or indeed in the school system in America, kids are being taught from a young age that transitioning, you know, do you feel? can do it as a kid. Obviously, I'm an adult, so I transitioned as an adult. But, you know, when you've got everyone around the world, educators, people on social media, celebrities, you know, normalizing this and saying it's easy as one, two, three. No, I thought it was an easy thing. And I had the facial feminization. I was actually going to go do body surgery as well. Thankfully, I didn't, you know, but when you have that constantly pushed, particularly online, I spent all my time

online on social media and stuff. And, you know, it's so easy, it's so normal. You know, maybe So that's what you're being told. You're being told having surgery is easy, it's normal. And also transitioning, you know, if you're feeling lost, if you're feeling confused with your gender, it's because you are trans. It's because you're trapped in the wrong body. So I thought that I was trapped in the wrong body. So I thought, you know, maybe the Korean thing is not right. It's maybe it's actually the fact that I'm in the wrong gender. So I transitioned. I had facial feminization. I had, I mean, my forehead bones shaved down, my eyebrow bones shaved down, had another eye surgery, chin, cheek fat removed here, like, did so.

many things. And you know, I love the results now because it looks nicer than I was. But at the same time, I just feel like I could have done more to myself. I was going to go to Thailand and do the body surgery. I could have died. And I would have also been left with deep regret for the rest of my life. So, you know, I just think my message is, you know, not to stop people doing these things. People want to do it. If that's what they really believe, do it. But just, you know, educate yourself on the risks. And also, don't rush into things. You know, don't do something because it's trending or because people on social media are saying, do this, it's easy. You know, for kids in America when they're being told by influencers or schools that, you know, at age 12, take puberty

blockers, we can give you a double mastectomy. When it comes across as it's easy. And they don't realize, you know, there's a lifelong consequence. These kids will be on medication for the whole life. There's a lot of health implications. There's not enough research. So that's the reason, you know, I'm trying to share to try and help people. I'm an adult, but people are being, children are being misinformed. So come back to the story because I interrupted you. I just felt that that was an important point to flesh out. But you have all these surgeries and you thought you were trans for a while after thinking you're, and when do you go actually, you know what? Maybe I'm neither. Maybe I'm just. Well, it was again, it's about four months ago. So I got to a point where I was

still unhappy. I was thinking, okay, I became Korean, I became trans, had all this surgery. Now I'm thinking about doing more surgery, irreversible surgery that I really can't change. Is this what I want? You know, I'd look in the mirror every day and I'd have the surgery and for two months I would be so happy. It's weird because when I have the swollen face, I actually feel beautiful, sounds weird, but that was when I feel my most beautiful. And then after that wears off, I kind of feel like, oh, I look too normal.

So it got to a stage where I'm thinking, okay, am I crazy? Like, have I got body dysmorphia? Why am I doing this? You know, I was losing relationships with friends, family. You know, everyone was moving away from me because they were so upset with what I was doing. and obviously people online were upset with me and stuff and I'm thinking, what am I doing to myself? So I actually was lost and I was thinking, I need direction in my life.

So I thought, let me just go to church. I hadn't been to church in years. I used to go as a kid. I was actually raised atheist, but I used to go as a kid at a church of England school. And I just went into church. It's like, let me just have some peace. Let me sit calmly at the back and think and reflect on my life.

And that was a defining moment for me. It was like, you know, stop what you're doing. just be happy with who you are. And then I started going to church more, I started reading the Bible, just the teachings of Jesus. And I realized, you know, it's like, just be, you know, be the way you're born, you know, stop doing all this crazy thing. Because at the end of the day, it's not fulfilling me. It's not giving me happiness. It's harming me. It's harming other people. You know, what's the point of all this? It doesn't even matter what I look like. It's what's inside that counts. And that's when I

also had an awakening. It's like, you know, I actually regretted what I was doing online on TikTok and stuff because maybe I was persuading people to have surgeries or maybe I was persuading people to become Korean or whatever. And I felt, you know, actually I have a moral responsibility with, you know, I've got two million followers online. I have a responsibility for these kids, these people that look up to me. I need to send them a good message, you know. So that's why I've kind of been trying to do some activism to try and spread love and positivity in the world and just to try and, you know, spread a better message rather than, you know, getting surgery is cool, being Korean is cool.

You know, I just felt bad for what I was doing. This episode sponsored by Maximus Tribe. You train, you track, you eat right. But if you're over 40, you've felt it. The results don't match the effort anymore. That's not willpower, it's biology. Hormones drop, metabolism slows, your body stops responding the way it used to.

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into measurable results, go to Maximus Tribe.com. That's maximus tribe.com. Did nobody at any point sit you down and go, Oli, I really think you need to talk to somebody? Yeah, a lot of times, like my family friends, I stopped talking to a lot of my family for, you know, multiple times for like weeks of the time after surgeries.

And I would never inform people I was having a surgery. I would just go and do it and post it online or, you know, whatever. And because I thought, you know, I don't want to message individual people and say, oh, by the way, I've just had another surgery. You know, I'll just put it online. My family will have to deal with it that way. And that was actually very irresponsible of me. That was wrong of me.

I put people through a lot of pain and suffering. And, you know, a lot of people tried to stop me. but, you know, I'm a very headstrong person. I don't really listen. I should listen to people, you know. I should start, I'm trying to grow as a person. I should start listening to people and taking people's advice. But at the time, it was like I was so headstrong.

I was hell-bent on. I want to look a certain way. I wouldn't look like a K-pop star. And then I was thinking, okay, I want to be trans. And it's, you know, I'm a bit crazy, but like I go through trends. Like, I go through phases. And, you know, young people are going through phases now where they have gender dysphoria.

And they're very confused. And, you know, as a teen, it's a very confusing. time, you do question yourself. And that's a very normal thing, but we shouldn't have as a society be telling kids, you know, go transition, go get a surgery when they're a kid. You know, I believe if people want to transition, do it as an adult. Absolutely. I support all people, but I just don't think we should be pushing a narrative on kids and minors when it's not healthy. You know, they may have gender dysphoria. We need to give them love and comfort and support, but we shouldn't be encouraging, you know, doing things to themselves.

Do you think that you had gender dysphoria, Oli, when you were thinking about transitioning? Yeah, obviously, I'm not a kid. I was, when I transitioned fully, it was actually earlier this year, so I was 32. So I definitely have gender dysphoria and probably an identity crisis of some sort, because I've had quite a few different identities. So yeah, I definitely think gender dysphoria and just very low self-esteem and body dysmorphia and it's become increasingly common to have these things in the US, medically diagnosed as around 270,000 teens that are medically diagnosed with gender dysphoria

in terms of kids identifying as trans or non-binary that has doubled since 2016, according to research from the Williams Institute at the UCLA. So it's like there's studies being done on this. So there's basically a real increase in the last couple of years in people identifying in different ways, people with body dysmorphia and social media obviously has a huge impact. You know, we see everyone uses a filter. We look up to people like Kim Kardashian, you know. And you know, some people love her, some people hate her. But at the end of the day, so many people look up to her. She's got over 300 million followers. She has a lot of surgery. You know, is she sending the right message to kids? You know, that's up to them to decide. But I feel with the kind of social media's rise,

like TikTok and stuff, people are developing these, you know, gender dysphoria and body dysmorphia based on this. It's weird because you said, well, I'm a little crazy, but, you know, we've spent some time with you before the interview. I think some of the stuff you've done is crazy. I agree. But I don't get the sense that you're crazy at all. You seem actually like a pretty grounded, sensible, normal person to me, which I think is kind of part of why, to a lot of people this is such a concern, because someone who, okay, low self-esteem, okay, you had bad experiences at school, you didn't enjoy going to school. A lot of children throughout the entire history of the human race will have experienced both

of those as teenagers and going into adulthood. And sometimes, you know, sometimes it takes an entire life to work out who are you? What are you supposed to be doing with your life? What is your purpose? What is the job that you want to do? That's all part of human development. But now we have such powerful technology, both in terms of the surgeries, but also in terms of the social media, the spreading of the message.

that if there's something wrong with, if you feel something is slightly not quite right with you, here's a whole range of options for you. You can do this, you can do this. And I think that's where a lot of people's concerns comes in because it's almost like you give your child the fun. You have no idea what's going to end up happening. Exactly. I mean, your point is like thousands of years, you know, it's normal for a teen or kid to question themselves to question their identity, to feel left out to want to fit into the society. So, you know, if people watching this, when they're a teen, you do try to fit into the with the cool kids in school, right? So if the current cool kids are trans or non-binary,

you also want to be like them because you want to be part of that social group. So there's a lot of psychological elements to it. But again, with kids having access to phones from a very young age, I mean, you know, kids four or five, they have phones, they have TikTok, which is very risky because, you know, the parents can't monitor them all day. It's not healthy for their development. It's better for them to be reading books, doing sports, you know, doing art, going to museums, you know, that's more healthy. That's what I grew up with.

And I'm sure most of us grew up with. When you just give a kid a phone and they have unlimited access to the internet, what are they seeing on TikTok? And if they're seeing that from age three until they're a teenager, you know, that's 10 years of indoctrination. They are going to believe that. And that's also a risk with things like TikTok is, you know, the algorithm, it's obviously TikTok is owned by a Chinese company and there are risks with that as well because the algorithms promote certain views, you know, politically, culturally, socially, and over time this can shape children's opinions on things. So, you know, if you're getting constantly on an algorithm,

someone that is telling kids to transition like Dillam Molfany, the influencer, you know, kids are going to want to do that because it's trending and they constantly see it. It's normalized for them. So I think that's the risk of technology. And I think kids, I'm sorry, parents should pay better attention to what their kids are doing and maybe, no, limit their access, you know, let them go on YouTube, let them watch, you know, cartoons.

or videos or whatever. Triggernometry, exactly. But, you know, just be careful. You know, I don't think a kid should have TikTok or Instagram. You know, I mean, of course, with teens, they all want to do it. All their friends have it. It's kind of hard for parents to stop them. But when you're a kid, you shouldn't really be using those platforms

because there's a lot of harm online. I completely agree with you. Which are the worst platforms for this? Because I can't imagine too many kids are on Facebook. Facebook seems like an older person's thing. Twitter. again, not really. Is it primarily TikTok and Instagram?

Yeah, I mean, Twitter's more for adults. I mean, you do get kids on Twitter, like there's a lot of K-pop fans on Twitter and stuff. And, you know, Twitter can be quite a toxic place, so it's not really the best place for a kid. Yeah. With all the views expressed on there. So, yeah, it's mostly TikTok.

I mean, TikTok is very fast. You've got the 15-second videos. People constantly scroll through, and I spend hours sometimes, you know, at night, just lying in bed, just scrolling through it, and you just can't turn it off. And there are some people that describe it as a digital. digital fentanyl because it gets you hooked. You know, from first use, you're hooked and then

you're constantly on it all day. And, you know, whatever videos they're seeing, you know, it's not right for a kid to be on a phone all day when they should be doing other things. They should be at school. They should be doing their homework. So TikTok is the main platform they're using. And again, the risk is certain views can be promoted on there, which is, you know, what kids are being exposed to. And TikTok can be a fun place. There's lots of dance videos. There's lots of cute videos, but there are videos that kids might see that aren't meant for kids. And TikTok, I will give them credit. They do a lot of things that they don't show alcohol.

They don't show cigarettes. There's certain things you can't show. So I will give them credit for they do protect children. And I believe you have to be 13 to be on the app. So they do take some kind of responsibility with that. But you know, a kid's a kid. If they want to go on something, they'll find a way, like a VPN or something. Now, I completely agree.

And you said something just earlier on in that point, which I found quite shocking. Are the trans kids are cool kids now? Yeah, so in, like particularly in America in schools, being trans or non-binary is considered cool and trendy. And if you're not in one of these groups, you're not cool. It's like if you're a male or a female, you're not cool anymore. You're kind of so like last year. So it's like it has become a trend in some schools where, you know,

if you're not part of the trans or non-binary group, you are then an outcast and, you know, you feel left out. And I feel that's one of the reasons why kids are feeling the pressure to, you know, be non-gender conforming, you know, have different pronouns or whatever just to try and fit in with their friends. Because this has been a complete about term, because when I went to school, I mean, it was not that long ago. I'm sure people will say that it is. But, you know, the worst thing you could be was to stand out in any way,

particularly if you were gay or bisexual, the abuse that you got was horrific. And now to see it completely go the other way, it's shocking in a way. Well, yeah, I'm obviously, you know, I'm happy I support all people, so I'm happy that people that identify different ways can be accepted now. I'm really glad to hear that. And, you know, 40 years ago it was very hard for a trans person to be trans. So I'm glad they're able to live how they want now. But the issue is, you know, like you said, years ago, it was not as common.

And there were generally people that were trans and they would have to go for a lot of hardships to get where they are. But now there's no checks and balances. Now it's easy. You can just self-identify and go into a woman's toilet. And there are cases where men just put on the dress, they go in a women's toilet and assault happens. There was in Virginia in America in Loughton County, a boy wearing a skirt went into the women's bathroom, raped a girl. And, you know, there was no justice. So there are real issues with that. But it's also important to be sensitive. You know, we have to understand these kids that are going through, you know, their teen years. They might have identity struggles, they might have issues, but, you know, it has become a trend and that's the

issue. You know, we should support all people, but, you know, kids shouldn't be, you know, forced or pressurized to do this from kindergarten. We've explored this issue with a lot of people and there's a range of opinions. And I can see that your approach, understandably, is to have compassion for people who, who feel that, you know, they need to transition or they have gender dysphoria and all sorts of things. And I totally get that. But on the other hand, some people would say, well, I mean, the question I want to ask you, I suppose, is this. Do you think it's possible to change your sex or do you think it's possible to change your ethnicity in the way that you were tempted to

do? Well, you know, when I announced I was Korean, I thought, you know, one of the reasons I thought that was okay was because people are changing their gender all the time. Sure. So what's the difference between changing agenda or saying that I'm from Korea. Yeah. No, on the contrary, what I was doing was kind of almost made more sense. You know, I was, I was, I was, I love this country. I've lived in this country. I identify as that culture. It's almost made more sense. So, you know, I, again, I'm compassionate. I accept people want to live certain ways and that's fine. But also, we have to look at, you know, there is biology. It's just science. You know, there are, if you're born a certain way, you know, some people change over time. I think a lot of that's a societal pressure. You know, it's from a young age there.

Sorry, what I'm getting at is, and you mentioned biology, if you did, no matter how many surgeries you did, if you did a DNA test, none of them would show you up to have Korean ethnicity, right? And likewise with sex, it would be the same process. And this is where a lot of the feminists, you mentioned women who are concerned about this. Their argument would be that, yes, have compassion for people with gender dysphoria or body image issues or whatever it is that people are going through and get them the psychological help that they need. But there will be very few people, actually, particularly if it's become a trend, as you say,

who are genuinely in need of trouble. transition, a lot of it is confused young people. And if we pretend, as you said yourself, as a society, that you can change your sex or your gender or whatever, you can change your ethnicity, then of course children and sometimes adults will look at that and go, as you did, well, if you can change it, why can't you change, do you know what I mean? So do you believe that it's possible to change your sex or it's possible to change your ethnicity with surgery and hormones and whatever? I mean, I don't believe it's possible to change. biology. You know, I think it's kind of what I did. I just had plastic surgery to look Korean.

Yeah. It's exactly the same. You're having plastic surgery just looked like a woman. Yeah. You're having plastic surgery just look like a man. It doesn't change what's underneath. It doesn't change the way you're born. So again, if they took a, you know, a gender test, it would show their biological gender. But I took a test, it would show us, you know, British. So, you know, there's no real difference there. And, you know, again, people want to look a certain way. That's fine. They want to live a certain way. That's fine. But don't impose on other people, because that's the issue. And there are a real. And there are a lot of the issue. And there are, again, generally people that are trans out there, but their voices are silenced by these kind

of people, these trans activists that have hijacked their movement, and it's actually made it harder for them to be trans, you know, because they're getting hate online and stuff, because people, these trans activists have caused so many problems for women. They've caused so many problems for kids. And it's very offensive to women what some of these activists are doing. You know, they're trying to silence the word women, Cambridge Dictionary just updated their official definition of man and woman yesterday and it's no longer says that it's the biology you're born with. So I know you can't change a biology, you can't change your gender, but you can look a certain way, you can feel a certain way and you can live your life that way, which again is what I was

doing. I had plastic surgery to be Korean. Someone will have plastic surgery like a woman. What's the difference? Ollie, there's a balance that needs to be struck between the rights of the individual and also as well, realizing that this is a mental illness. Absolutely. Because, and look, I read online, correct me if this is wrong. You said that you wanted to cut or reduce the size of your penis because in Korea they have smaller sized penises. Is that true or is that just nonsense?

That was actually, it was misquoted. So basically, I was going to transition. So I had the facial feminization. So I was going to actually cut it off. So I was going to go to Thailand and cut it off, you know, to look like a Korean woman. So, you know, it was miscrotes that did some interview in Newsweek and they miscrotated it. So they said I wanted to cut a little bit off. I wanted to cut it off completely to transition to become a woman.

So that was the kind of issue. It was misquote. And is that one of the points where you went, okay, maybe this is starting to get a bit of far. Yeah, I was thinking, you know, that's something I could regret. I might miss that. I might miss that one. It might be a bit of a weird adjustment. So, yeah, that was again because I was suffering from gender dysphoria.

And again, it is mental, it's a mental health issue. You know, plain and simple, it's like people need love and compassion, but we need to address it as a mental health issue, not as, you know, a trans issue or whatever where, you know, kids want to do this. You should support them. If you dare question it, you're a bad person, you know, why can't we question this happening? You know, why can't we question the erosion of women's rights for this very, very small minority,

which is like 0.3% of the population? See, I completely agree with you. And to me, we're not really striking that balance. Where we're talking about people's feelings, and of course people's feelings are important, Ollie. I'm not discounting that. But when it comes to people literally chopping bits off themselves, changing their bodies,

living on medication for the rest of their life, and in some cases, shortening their lifespans. Making themselves infertile. Making themselves infertile. At what point do we step in and go, I don't think this is a good way of living or a good choice? Do you see what I mean? Absolutely. I fully support, like, I think in America, we need in all 50 states legislation to stop gender-affirming care in teens.

Because currently you have, in places like Oregon and Los Angeles, you have 12, 13 years old. They're going for these surgeries. The doctors are making it so easy. And they get $70,000 per surgery for the full body, by the way. So there's a lot of money involved. So, you know, we need to have laws to protect these kids, you know. If somebody, you know, we should be giving people psychologists appointments. Years and years ago, if someone was generally trans, they would spend four or five years going to doctor's appointments, having psychology appointments,

to make sure that that's really what they wanted. Now it's as easy as, you know, one, two, three. You go into the doctor, they say, what would you like to be today? Boy or a girl, and, you know, they give them a prescription, they chop everything off. And it's like that, you know, we need some kind of legislation in place. You know, it's who cares about people's feelings

when there are people, kids that are being, you know, mutilated in my mind. It's no different to female genital mutilation that you have in some cultures. in Somalia, what's the difference between that and cutting a child up in America that's 13, you know, all under the kind of trans umbrella? Yeah, and if you were a child of that age and you had grown up in this time with access to TikTok and Instagram and all the rest of it, do you think that that would have been your path? Oh my God, I mean, I can't imagine. I mean,

it's bad enough of me now of, obviously, being Korean and being trans. I can't imagine, I can't imagine what I would have been, you know, I've probably been an alien or something. So yeah, I think it's now, it's like, it's so difficult for kids now. you know, but kids shouldn't be learning these things. It's fine to learn about love and acceptance of different people, like LGBT, that's a very good thing. But you know, we shouldn't be some schools in America, there was this case recently, this university dean, was teaching 14-year-olds how to use dildos and butt plugs, like, sick, really, really sick stuff. I had like our LGBTQ plus health center come in.

They were passing around butt plugs and dildos to my students, talking about queer sex, using blue versus, using spit. Meet Joe Bruno, Dean of Students at the prestigious Francis W. Parker Private School in Chicago, which happens to charge $40,000 per student. They're just like passing on dildos, butt gloves. The kids are just playing with them. They're like, how do you, how does this work? How do we do, like, how does this work? That's a really like a whole part of my job. Parents might be stunned to learn that Bruno's version of love and acceptance means handing out sex toys to underage, underage students.

It's amazing. And everybody's cool with that, like the plugs and the dildos, nobody complains. I mean, if the parents found out, would they? No. It's queer sex.

This is the drag queen that came in. What's her name? Alexis Bevels. Alexis Bevels. And just hung out in my classroom. Was there? Hung out in my office. You have so much freedom, so much,

wiggle. So much freedom. So much money. I mean, you just to do you do. stuff. What's he's okay with that too? They don't know. They would.

It's like we wouldn't even like run it by them. Like why would I run it by them? They would be like, oh my god, that's wonderful. How old with the kids that with the classroom? 14, 18. And funnily enough, the university issued a statement and they actually sided with him as opposed to the kids. So they're actually abusing these kids. They're teaching these kids things.

So there are certain things that kids need to be protected from. You know, that is just beyond shocking. You know, again with the balenciard. scandal when they had kids holding bondage bears. How are we allowing this? Thankfully, everybody was speaking up, but how has this become so normal that the person that speaks out is cancelled? The kids aren't protected. The kids are the victims. They constantly victimized. The schools protect the people teaching these things to kids. And it's not right. So we need something in place to stop these things. Florida is a great

example with Governor DeSantis. They actually passed the bill to kind of protect kids from being taught certain things such as, you know, transitioning and stuff from a young age. And that was, you know, dubbed the don't say gay bill. But really, it's nothing to do with that. It was, you know, Ronda Santis supports the LGBT community. Florida supports the LGBT community. But that was more of an issue of indoctrinating kids. They didn't want certain things to be taught in kindergarten, you know, which I think is a good

thing. We should have more legislation and laws like that. But sadly, when you try to pass laws like that, it's suddenly you're homophobic, you're transphobic. that's not the issue. Most people aren't homophobic. Most people just want the best for kids. Most people want to protect kids. You know, if someone's kid is gay or lesbian, most parents would support that these days, which is which is fantastic. But you know, what people don't support is kids being taught these things in school, like how to use a dildo at age 14, like these

really shocking things, you know, that should be kept out of the classroom. Well, you bring up an issue that I think is one of the biggest, and it's almost like an underwater hidden concern of people because until recently you weren't allowed to talk about it in many social media platforms like Twitter. You and I were talking in the car and the way here about the fact that you can now use the word groomer online, for example. And I know that for a lot of people, part of the concern is that this has all become very muddled. We've kind of slept to walk our way through let's not beat up gay people in the street,

which I think we'd all agree was a bad thing and definitely shouldn't happen and people should treated equally no matter who they love and all of that, which again, we'd all agree with, to like, your children should, if your child says they're trans, that means they're trans, and if you question that, you're transphobic, through to, as you say, children being taught all sorts of sexualized stuff that's not really about LGBTQ at all. And it seems to be about something else in Thailand. You mentioned this teacher, but didn't we have this, was it the family sex show in the UK? Yeah, we had the family sex show. I don't know, did you follow of this? With the trans person with the piano?

I don't think it was... No, no, you're talking about a... No, no, no, yeah. That's a... Yeah, it's a different thing. No, no, there was a family sex show that was in Bristol, in which at some point all of the actors were encouraged

to remove their clothes to the level of nudity that they felt comfortable with. And the audience range, I think it was starting from five or seven years old, something like that. And the lyrics were, I have a penis,

in my pants, touch it, touch it, touch it. And I think when people see that kind of stuff and combined with the stuff that you're talking about, and also, you know, I don't know if you saw Matt Walsh's documentary. Yeah, what is a woman? If you look into the history of how some of these ideas came about, they were pushed by outright pedophiles. Absolutely. So you put all that together. Do you think there is an element, obviously not all trans people, not even all trans activists, but do you think there's an element of this, which is, you think there's an element of this, which is about early sexualization of children. I mean, absolutely. I mean, you look at anything in the media in Hollywood movies, in fashion, like with Balenciaga, everything is about sexualization

these days. And the thing is, these people, like these trans, radical trans activists, they have actually hijacked the LGBT movement. There's a lot of LGBT people that don't want to be associated with these people. They've really taken that movement. And, you know, if anyone dares call someone a groomer, you are transphobic, you're homophobic. That's not correct. People are just calling out what they see, which is grooming. So when you have a fashion brand trying to normalize the sexual exploitation of kids, you know, glorifying it. And with Balenciaga, they had a Supreme Court document which was trying to, you know, pass a law to say that digital child porn was okay. You know, and that's become so normal. We see it every day in movies, even in cartoons. In school,

you have drag shows in America. Again, people always say, oh, you're homophobic to try and stop these drag story hours, all these drag shows. But really, no kids should be going to a drag show where the drag queen or the artist is stripping, performing twerking. And, you know, I've seen videos in Florida, there was a bar where a drag queen was twerking, holding like a three-year-old girl's hand. And they're basically naked, basically naked. And Florida moved to revoke the place's liquor license if they did not stop those drag shows. And I believe they've stopped now. But, you know, again it's it's cast as oh if you dare speak out against screaming you're homophobic and it's not the case at all it's literally there's so much exploitation out there right now and there are people trying to

normalize these things like calling predators um minor attractive persons you know the language that even the washington post new york times you know these kind of woke newspapers there was washington post recently they did an article praising this play that was about pedophiles and they were saying you know maybe this is a good thing so they're it's like they're trying to push this agenda you know that okay to exploit children when it's never been okay in history and it never will be okay. I mean, I completely agree with you. I will say that that it's nothing new. I remember Charlotte Church, the singer. I can't remember what newspaper it was or magazine did a countdown until when she was legal. Wow. Not surprising. You know, and so, you know, if you look at back and rock and roll,

Chuck Berry, sweet little 16, you know, there've always been those elements, those people in in our culture who have been trying to do this. And thankfully, we now have stopped that element of it, which is very worrying that there's another element creeping into our society. I don't remember being talked about buck plugs in school, I promise you that. It wasn't a thing back then, but they've become very more brazen now. You know, they're very open. They, you know, they don't even want to hide anymore these people.

I mean, if we look at what happened with Jeffrey Epstein's Island, if you look at the flight logs, how many Hollywood celebrities and powerful people were there? It's very, very shocking. And, you know, people that are, you know, loved by millions of people, they see this. And, you know, what were they doing on the island? So it's really, they don't... For legal purposes, having a very nice time. Exactly, of course, yeah, enjoying the tropics.

Most of them, you know, why have these people become so open? They don't want to hide it. I mean, again, their best example is the balanciography recently where they really didn't want to hide what their agenda was. They had all of these horrific signs about child abuse. Their stylists had images of, you know, child abuse on their... Instagram absolutely shocking torture. The artists they were taking inspiration from were doing, you know, pictures of children being tortured and they're amputated. And it's just like deep.

But, you know, they don't hide in the shadows anymore. They're more open because they feel that over time and time, years and years, they can normalize this. And, you know, if you look at examples in the past, when a certain type of people want to normalize something, you don't do it straight away because people reject that. They do it slowly over time. They put it in the pop culture. in the magazines, the fashion shows, until slowly it becomes normalized that, oh, it's just another child holding a bondage bear. Oh, it's just another child with a trans drag queen naked. Oh, that's normal. We see that all the time in music videos. I don't have a problem with that because I see it all the time. So that's the issue is they've become so brazen and they've pushed it for years and years and

years and it's almost becoming normalized. And, Ollie, you mentioned this Dylan Mulvaney, Dilmovini, who's been to the White House. Yeah. And this is a person who's, again, an online influencer on TikTok. Yeah. I'm feeling my age as I'm talking here. This is a trans person on TikTok who promotes being trans, basically. Is that fair to say?

Yeah, but they do more of a caricature. So they actually started out as an actor and a comedian, and they saw they were getting a lot of views. This is my belief, and a lot of people hold this belief, they started out as a caricature mocking women, you know, holding up tampons and joking about, I can't wait to use these. Basically, just stereotyping women, you know, like high heels, the blonde hair, I'm such, you know, a dixie blonde, basically just mocking women. And they saddle out like that. And, you know, the trans lobby will always say, oh, you should never question someone that identifies as trans.

Yet they were questioning me. He wasn't, they kept, keep saying, oh, he wasn't really transsexual. Like, I was wearing dresses. I was doing the makeup. I had the facial feminization. I had the extensions. I was doing a lot more than Dylan Mawveny. Dylan Mawvany has grown their hair and had laser hair removal. That's it. You know, which, you know, if she generally feels that way, okay, whatever. But, you know, why are people saying that I wasn't trans yet? Dylan's done literally nothing.

Ollie, can I interrupt you? Because this goes into, and believe me, I've been on the other end of this question I'm about to ask you, because when we have someone who's very strong and clearer on this issue like Posi Parker, who we've had on the show, right? She's like, why do you keep calling this person she? It's a he. Yeah, yeah. So is it, if I get longer hair, and I mean, if I got hair, I can't afford all the hair

removal that it would take for me to not have body hair. But if I did all that, right, would I become a she? Am I a she? You'd still be the way you're born biologically. So this Dylan person, surely they must be a he then by that definition. Yeah, they are. They are. Yeah, they just want to identify as a woman.

And, you know, they identify that way. okay, but what they're doing is they're actually mocking women and they're parodying women. And do you think there's a danger as well? Because if people, as you, again, coming back, I'm just rehashing what you've already said. If you would watch stuff like that and it influences you, it influences people, it makes you go, well, if you can do this, why can't I do this other thing? Do you think that someone like that is actually doing damage to other people? Absolutely. I mean, it's harmful to when you have a platform to do that. And again, that's why I do regret in the past my behaviours because I feel like maybe I was influencing people in the

wrong way. So I like, I have a deep, deep regret about that. And that's why I'm going to church. I'm trying to redeem myself and trying to move on and trying to help people now. So, you know, people that have a platform, any platform, whether it's TV, movies, you have a moral responsibility to send a good message to the world, you know. So I feel it's very harmful for people like Dylan to portray these stereotypes, to mock women. And, you know, when a kid sees Dylan Mawvany with the President of the United States. You know, that means, wow, maybe I can do that. I just need to grow my hair and identify as a woman.

I can meet, you know, Biden, because, you know, Biden seems to be inviting all sorts of people at the moment. You won't have an interview of a real journalist, but he'll invite all these people. He just had a drag queen at the White House who just tweeted that kids can suck their dick, you know. What? Yes, a drag queen that was at the White House recently.

Biden invited loads of drag queens to do with the Marriage Equality Act, being passed. This drag queen tweeted very recently about kids can suck my dick on Twitter. Basically, all the conservatives were calling them out for being there, and then they responded by saying, oh, kids can suck my dick. And I'm thinking, this is the, this, you know, when these people are going to the White House, what message does that show to their followers that, oh, if I say that, if I do that, I can get an invite to the White House. Wow, this is so cool. You know, and kids are very impressionable. They fall victim to this. They want to emulate people like Dillan Mulvaney. And they think, you know, oh, this is fun. You know,

Dylan's making millions of dollars now mocking women. You know, he's got to deal with Tampax. And, you know, maybe I can be like that. Who's got to deal with Tampax? Yeah, where's he putting them? Exactly. I guess up his nose, I don't know. But yeah, so he's got to deal with Tampax.

And Tampax had backlash for that because they're getting trans people to promote their products, which is, you know, it's obviously they want some attention. The brand, you know, it's a controversial marketing tactic. But at the end of the day, it's a joke because they're going to lose all their customers, all their customers are women that actually menstruate. and actually have periods. People like Dillamolveni will never experience that they'll never go through the suffering a woman has to go through. So it's deeply offensive for Tampax to do something like that. You know, if I was a woman, I wouldn't buy Tampax anymore based on them openly mocking women.

How big a problem is it? And to an extent, this is a challenge that we face, which is audience capture. You're an influencer, you're online, you've got a huge, you know, you've got a huge audience. You make your living from being online. You put out content, there's some content that really flies, and you think to yourself, well, just do more of that content. And before you know where you are,

you've gone down a particular route or rabbit hole or pathway, and all of a sudden, you're not where you were, what you wanted to be. I mean, yeah, I kind of fall for that as well, because I think, you know, most people on social media, it is an addiction. People get very addicted and they fall into it. So people like Dylan,

again, started out acting. They were in Broadway, the Book of Mormon show, started acting, they were desperate to be famous, and then they realized, you know, suddenly they put on the wig or whatever, and they were getting loads of views, loads of interactions. And, you know, when you come out as trans or whatever, you called stunning and brave, you get all of this appraisal,

which I also got, when I announced I was trans, I got so many, all these people that were hating on me, suddenly were like, oh, we love you, we accept you. I'm thinking, how ironic. You wouldn't accept me when I was Korean, but now suddenly you accept me for, you know, becoming a woman or whatever. So it's just crazy.

And what does it like to go through that journey where people were openly mocking you? You were this figure of fun. You then, and you were a viral sensation, to then transitioning where people were saying, you know, this is stunning and brave and blah, blah, blah. And then to go and then to take the third part of your journey, which is to go, I've made a mistake. Well, you know, I think it's the best thing to do when you regret something your life is just to accept it and admit it. And, you know, I have apologised for past behaviours,

you know, but also, you know, people, they get so carried away online. You know, I do K-pop music. People take offence to me, singing Korean songs, doing fun music videos to entertain and make people laugh. And they get really caught up in it. I'm thinking, just enjoy the music video, have a laugh. I'm trying to make people smile. You know, when COVID was happening, I was making so many TikToks to make people smile, you know, because we all need more happiness in the world. I'm trying to always project positivity to the world. So when I was having people, canceling me, oh, you're racist, you're doing this. I'm not. I generally feel this way I felt Korean at the time, but I just want to make people happy. Is there anything wrong with that?

No, but what does it mean to feel Korean, Oli? Well, you know, I think a lot of foreigners that live in Korea do feel that way. It's just you are endeared with that particular culture. You love that particular place. You feel at home with those people. So I just felt like I fitted him with that particular group of people, that particular culture. And, you know, I have apologized for extreme obsession in the past, but at the end of the day, there's no real harm in that. You know, if people assimilate into a certain culture, you know, let's say you lived in Japan for 10 years, you'd feel a part of that culture, right? You'd feel a part of that societal group.

You'd probably... Yeah, but you'd never be Japanese though. And Oleg, I'm not having to go at you because, like I said, I have a tremendous amount of respect for you being able to come out and go, you know, I made these mistakes, I regret them, I'm on a different path. And this is the only thing human beings have when we make mistakes, as we all do. And some of our mistakes are more extreme than others and some people go further than others. So this isn't in any way having a go at you. But I would say that, you know how you were saying,

well, if I can be a woman, why can't I be Korean? I suppose the reason it is, in my opinion, still quite dangerous to pretend that somebody can be Korean. Like, look, I was born in Russia. Yeah. Right. I came to this country. I'm a British national, but I would never say that I'm English. Correct. It sounds good in his accent. Correct. Get out. But do you see what I'm saying, right?

So the reason I bring this up and the reason I do think it's actually harmful is if you say, well, why can't I be Korean? Fair enough. Let's say, fair enough for the sake of argument. Someone else go, well, if I can be Korean, why can't I be a different age or a different sex? And it's a never-ending cycle of essentially lies, right? are lying to ourselves because the truth is when, you know, I am someone who came to this country

from another country and you came to Korea from another country. So we're quite similar in that way. But no matter how much surgery I do, I don't think I'm ever going to be English. Right. Right. And likewise, I don't think you could be like someone who's in love with Korean culture and fully embedded in it, a foreigner who's really made themselves part of that, that world. And I think that's something Koreans probably really like foreigners coming in really respect in that culture. But I think we should also not pretend, if you don't mind me saying, that you actually are able to become a different ethnicity because it's not true. Would you agree? You know, I've got to that point now where I've accepted who I am. I've accepted my identity and I've kind of moved on from that past obsession I had. But again, I was going on what I'd been taught that, you know, if you can have 500 pronouns,

I'm just going to be Korean, why not? You know, I just thought, why not? And that's why I'm saying, it's maybe not... I've realized now that, you know, that was not healthy and it was not natural, and you can't just suddenly do that because, again, you said people can identify as a different age, and that's a very dangerous thing. Right.

But again, when you have the culture that says you can be trans, you can change gender, no, I just thought, why not? You know, I love this country. No, no, I'm not having to go with you for the past. It's just you were talking now as if... Yeah. And this is why I think, if you don't mind, me saying, I think it's your responsibility now to kind of go, well, you can't change your

ethnicity. Yeah, I've realized that now. Do you know what I'm saying? At the time, obviously, because I was struggling with... Yeah, yeah, no, I get it. Yeah. But I think now you're, you're allowed, to do what you want to do. I'm just saying, from my perspective, as I sit here talking to you, I think it's actually, it would be a good thing for you to go, you can't change your ethnicity, no matter how much surgery do. From a response, you know, we talked about responsibility. I mean, I'm trying to be more responsible now. I'm trying to speak out on things. And, you know, like you said, I agree with what you're saying.

And I do take responsibility for my past actions. And I'm trying to learn from that and grow. And that's in the spirit in which I offer that bit, which is, I know that you're in a totally different journey, which is why you're here, which is why I said I have a lot of respect for you. I just think you have to have clarity with people listening and watching about, like, you went through what you went through and you did it for reasons that seemed correct you at the time. but I think this is where someone like Posey Parker has changed my mind quite a bit where it's like you've got to be honest.

You've got to be true and go to wherever that honesty takes you. And I think in your case, from my perspective, it takes you to you can't change a sex and you can't change your ethnicity, even though I thought I could and I did it for my own. And I did think I could at the time because again, everyone else can do whatever they want. So I think we need to more challenge what's going on in society now and stop all this craziness, you know, stop all this self-identification and men going into women's toilets and just, you know, just try and accept who we are the way we're born. That's what the focus should be now. So that's the message I want to project us, you know, just be happy the way you're born.

And, you know, I get some people will still be unhappy. They're still want to do surgeries. But, you know, maybe don't do anything crazy like I did. Maybe don't go to the extreme and just try and learn to love yourself. Because the end of the day, it doesn't matter what we look like on the outside. It's what's inside that really matters. Oli, when I listen to your journey and when we're talking, it seems to me that what this is all about really is acceptance. You just wanted to be accepted. Right.

Was that really at the heart of all of this? Yeah, that's really why, you know, I never felt accepted in society. I always felt very different and ostracized. So that's why, again, when I was in Korea, that was the first time in my life where I actually felt accepted and loved and, you know, welcomed. And I never felt like that before. So why is that? Why was that, Oli? I don't know.

I guess because I was always. different to other people. Like I was always very kind of at school, I was always very quiet. Again, because I was bullied and stuff, it was very quiet. I was very unique and weird to some people. You know, I didn't fit in with the trending people or the cool kids at school and stuff. So I just never fitted in. I was always a bit of an outcast. I was always a different thinker. So I feel that's why I felt kind of, you know, that it wasn't accepted. So that's why I thought, you know, becoming Korean or whatever, having the surgery would make me feel accepted. And actually it had the opposite effect. I started getting, you know, horrible hate on

line and stuff. And, you know, I just, I've never wanted to be hated. I just want people to accept me for who I am. And thankfully, I've accepted myself now, which is part of the journey. And I hope other people can accept, you know, the real me that I've finally found. Well, look, it's been great having you on on that happy note. We've got, as you know, a couple of questions for our local supporters. But as always, we've got one final question, which we ask all our guests, which is what is the one thing we're not talking about as a society that you think we should be? I mean, we've talked. We've talked. on these subjects today, but again, child exploitation, because there are a lot of people that

either turn a blind eye or don't see what's really going on. So I think we need, as a society, collectively, everybody to speak up, you know. It shouldn't be a conservative or Democrat issue. It should be everyone, you know, speaking up for the protection of children. So we can't allow this constant indoctrination with fashion brands, with Hollywood movies, with, you know, the mainstream media allowing this narrative. So we all need to speak up and protect kids and, you know, and call out these things. Like you said on Twitter, the word grooming is being used again. And, you know, rightly so. We should be able to call out these people and, you know, protect kids. That should be the number one priority.

I think everyone can get behind that. Most people. Yeah. Yeah. Not Valenciaga. And before we go to our local's questions, if people want to find you online, Oli, where is the best place to do that? So Twitter is Olly London TV. Instagram's London, Tick-Tik-Tock at Olly London. I can't think we've got YouTube. YouTube, Olly London. So yeah, it's kind of mostly Olly London on most things. All right, Olly, thanks so much for coming on and talking to us. And thank you guys for watching and listening.

We will see you very soon another brilliant episode like this one or Orr Show. All of them go out at 7pm UK time. And for those of you who like your trigonometry on the go, it's also available as a podcast. Take care and see you soon, guys. Whether any medical professionals along the way who suggested you shouldn't get these surgeries, who explicitly said to you. don't do this.