TRIGGERnometry - An Immigrant's Love Letter to the West | Book Launch *Live Recording*

Episode Date: July 13, 2022

Join us for this special live conversation, as Triggernometry's very own Konstantin Kisin discusses his first book 'An Immigrant's Love Letter to the West' with co-host Francis Foster.  Plus live Q&A - Send your questions in via Superchat and PayPal: https://www.PayPal.me/triggerpod BUY the book here: UK - https://www.primrosehillbooks.com/product/an-immigrants-love-letter-to-the-west-konstantin-kisin-pre-order/ UK - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Immigrants-Love-Letter-West/dp/1408716046 USA - https://www.amazon.com/Immigrants-Love-Letter-West-ebook/dp/B09RQMRZHQ/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1657648056&sr=8-1 Find TRIGGERnometry on Social Media:  https://twitter.com/triggerpod​​​ https://www.facebook.com/triggerpod​​​ https://www.instagram.com/triggerpod​​​ About TRIGGERnometry:  Stand-up comedians Konstantin Kisin (@konstantinkisin) and Francis Foster (@francisjfoster) make sense of politics, economics, free speech, AI, drug policy and WW3 with the help of presidential advisors, renowned economists, award-winning journalists, controversial writers, leading scientists and notorious comedians. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

So yeah, so I remember when you said to me that you wanted to write a book, and we were talking about it, and you said that the title was going to be an immigrants love letter to the West, and that really struck me. Why did you call it that? Well, first of all, in some ways the title is a bit of a compromise, because I don't know if you saw the Sunday Time Review, which was broadly positive. Yes, it was. One of the criticisms he made was, well, what is the West?

And actually, if it were up to me, and it wasn't just about marketing, as well. I would have called it an immigrants related to the Anglosphere because that's really the countries that I'm talking about. I'm not talking about France. Not least because the French have a very different conception of freedom and where it comes from and, you know, partly the consequence of the French Revolution is they obsess about reason and rationality, whereas in the Anglosphere there's also an appreciation of tradition as a source of wisdom and a source of knowledge. So it should be called, first of all, an immigrant's love letter to the Anglosphere. And actually, one of the things that, one of the reasons I wanted to call it that

was it harkens back to Yuri Besmanov, who I showed you some videos of, if you remember. Yes. Which were very powerful. He was a KGB defector, which talked about the way the Soviet Union was demoralizing and dividing Western societies, particularly in the American society. And he wrote a book called A Love Letter to America. So I wanted to reference that with the book. And my book is very much making the point

that he was making in his own time, which is you can mess around with all of the crap that you and I spend every week discussing on trigonometry, all of this division and all this cultural bollocks and all of this sort of in naval gazing and obsessing about internal stuff that doesn't really matter.

You can do it as long as you don't have enemies, as long as you don't have people who are coming, as long as you don't have people who are willing to challenge that. And I've been saying to you, to be fair to you, you coming from outside the West somewhat and visiting countries outside the West yourself, you know this. The rest of the world isn't like the West. No.

To put it mildly, right? And the things that we want isn't necessarily what people outside the West want and the methods of behavior that we have here are not necessarily the methods of behavior that people have elsewhere. So if we continue to obsess about things don't matter, I mean, it strikes me as interesting that the last time you and I were sitting down like this

and talking was the day after Russia invaded Ukraine. Well, these events are not disconnected. I mean, I said to someone, I think it was Chris Williamson interviewed me for his YouTube show. Dump plug rivals, man. And I was sort of saying, you know, that Russia's invasion of Ukraine, wouldn't have happened or certainly wouldn't have happened the way that it happened or when it happened if it hadn't been for the culture war and that sounds like a bold claim and people go you're a culture warrior blah blah blah well if you think about it Donald Trump failed to get reelected because of the cultural war in some way right you could there's no question about that now if Trump doesn't get reelected we've had Putin's former advisor andrea

on the show saying by the moment Biden got elected this process started right now this isn't a partisan point about Biden or Trump or whatever. My point is, what we do internally in the West affects how we are seen elsewhere, and it affects the consequences which we then suffer, which we are essentially inflicting on ourselves. So my point is we've got to lay all this nonsense to bed and actually start to focus on very real problems. I'm not just talking about the threat of Russia, the struggle with China.

I mean, look at what economics is going to come back to the four. You and I have both talked about this, which is one of the reasons we're going to be getting more and more economists back on the show. Interestingly, that's how trigonometry started, of course. And that's because there's big problems. And people aren't awake to what's going to happen. The rise in fuel prices, the rising food prices, what we talk about is inflation.

No one really gets what it's going to be like by the end of this year. I think people are starting to get it now. What you have... I remember when Nigel Farage was actually sitting in that very scene and he said... And he actually said very similar words to use, which was, I don't think people understand what's going to happen when those bills hit their match

and I think it was in April or May or whenever it was. And he was talking about energy prices. He was indeed. But add to that fuel prices. And now you've got a global food crisis going on. Food prices are going to go through the roof. You and I just interviewed only an hour ago, Peter Zahan,

about all of this. So the economic future is going to be very challenging for a lot of people. We can't afford to be banging on about gender fluid lesbians being oppressed or whatever. Do you know what I mean? And that's kind of why I wanted to write the book. I wanted to remind people that what we have is great,

what we have is valuable. We shouldn't throw it out just because some race activists want to complain about, you know, air conditioning and off, or whatever it is that they're banging on about. We've got to lay those issues to rest, and we've got to move on and talk about the serious stuff that actually makes it different to everyone's life.

But don't you think the fact that we're obsessing over these trivial mundane issues? We went to visit your family in Armenia. And I remember sitting down with them and they went, well, what are people talking about in the West? And I said, well, one of the big issues, actually, is what is a woman? Yeah.

And she just looked at me like I had lost my nut. What? I was loving you explaining it because my whole family were just sitting there going, what? No. It is not possible. What? It is not possible. What? It is not...

And they were all women as well, which... Right, right, but the point is like, none of the shit is worth talking about. None of it makes sense. But we've got to a position where we're having to address GCC biology before we can actually talk about stuff that really matters. And that's a problem, Francis.

If the prime minister of this country is being asked what a woman is instead of what his policy is or her policy is on, you know, dealing with the cost of living crisis or the housing crisis or all of these other real problems, they're naturally going to spend their time talking about that and less time thinking and worrying and fixing the problems that we've actually got. I mean, look at the leadership race now. You know, you and I, for example, both quite like Kemi Badenock because she's good on cultural issues, right?

But I don't want the next prime minister of this country to be good to be able to define a woman. I've got higher ambitions. Look, I completely agree. But doesn't it show that there's something quite rotten at the core of our society? And the one thing that maybe is perhaps the truth about this is the reason we've been able to focus so much on these trivialities is our lives have been great. Now, it is my fear and suspicion that that may not be the way that it has been in the next 10 years. I think we're all going to get a lot poorer. Our lives are going to get more difficult.

I think the stability and prosperity we've enjoyed is genuinely under threat. We've seen some of the interviews we've already recorded by having yet put out. The end of globalization, it has some benefits, of course, but in the short term, it's going to be very painful for a lot of people. And perhaps that will be one of the things that does away with the culture war somewhat is it forces people to focus on things that matter. And what are the things that matter? Well, I think at the moment it's very clear what matters. One is international security. That's been thrown completely in the air by what Russia is doing in Ukraine

and some of the other moves that are happening. We don't know exactly what they'll look like. And the other thing, of course, is economics. I mean, people are going to starve around the world from the famine that's coming. We're fortunate in the West to probably be spared that. But you're seeing various things. that are happening around that, whether it's in Holland, whether it's in Sri Lanka, wherever you want.

And the other thing, of course, is the cost of living is going to go up massively. And when that happens, you know, we think about it as like, oh, we can't afford as many avocados or whatever, or as many meals out. For a lot of people, it's the choice between heating and eating or whatever it is. And that's a genuine fact.

You know, there are a lot of people, pensioners, for example, in this country. Now, I know they all voted Brexit, so they deserve to die according to some people. But in reality, I mean, there are some of the most vulnerable people in society, not least because they're not able to control their income. They can't go and get a second job or a third job or whatever to supplement their income. They're going to be in a lot of trouble.

And how we deal with that is much more important to me than, you know, Dr. Shola and Good Morning Britain banging on about how someone's offended her. You know what I mean? No, look, I completely agree with you. And the really interesting thing about your book is that it's doing. It's been released yet and it's doing very well on pre-sales, like the reviews have been great, it's already been, it's already gone for a reprint.

It's already had a reprint, so why is that? Well, before I answer that, I should say just how incredibly grateful I am to, and this is mostly our fans. To me. Yeah, I'm very grateful to you, mate. But I am so grateful that, you know, people have the trust that I'm gonna put out that something worth reading, my first book, no reason people should think that I'd be some great author, but I feel like

I've written a book that's worth reading, particularly given some of the historical context that I give that people may be unfamiliar with about my own family, the history of the Soviet Union. I think even from just if you're interested in history, it's hopefully a good book to read. But to answer your question, you know, like you say, thousands of copies sold before it's even released just in the UK alone and more in America and elsewhere, I think people really I realize that we've got a problem, man. I think people realize that this lack of confidence in ourselves,

this lack of gratitude for what we have, it's gonna cause real problems and it already has. And I think some of the divisiveness we see in society is because we don't feel like we're pulling in the same direction. And that's why, if you think about even the word debate, we talk about, well, the importance of debate, right? But would you say that what happens on a morning TV channel that I've been on and I've done those debates,

Is that really a debate? Is that two people trying to arrive at a conclusion by testing each other's ideas? Not really. You know, those are two enemies fighting and trying to win. To me, a debate is more like what me, you, and Anton have around the studio when we're talking about sometimes quite difficult subjects and, you know, you put an idea forward

and I put the opposite idea forward and Anton's got his own idea and we sit around and we talk and then eventually we either come to an understanding or we agree to disagree or whatever. But that's a debate. And the reason that works is we're all pulling in the same direction. But if we've got to a point as a society where we feel so disconnected from each other that our fellow citizens are our enemy, that we don't want to get to a common understanding.

What we want is to destroy them. What we want is to humiliate them. What we want them is for them to lose. That's not a recipe for a healthy society. And most importantly, it's not a recipe for a society that's going to be able to defend itself or project its power internationally, which is what we have to do. And obviously social media has been,

when it comes to this particular issue, you're more positive and social. Follow me on Twitter. Yeah. I mean, you're more positive than social media than I am. I'm a lot more negative about it. But, I mean, that's been a disaster for debate, surely.

Look, you say I'm more positive than you. I think I'm just more realistic than you, which is it's not going away, right? Yeah. It's not going to wait. You hesitate to say yet to that because you'd like to smash. See, there isn't a place you could go with a hammer and break it all down anymore. No, sure.

It's not going to happen, right? So we have social media, and it's up to us to learn to use it. I think we will eventually. I think there will be regulations and rules in place that allow it to be a place that's healthier. And I hope that, you know, depending on who gets elected, that may be more restrictive or less restrictive. And of course, you and I both have tremendous concerns about.

about the regulation, but we also think some regulation will have to come in to deal with it, right? Social media hasn't been great in some ways, but on the other hand, look at what we do. We give people an opportunity to listen to somebody talk, and I hope that what we do on Trigonometry is facilitating genuine discussion, and we wouldn't be where we are without social media,

without all these technologies. So I really think it's about learning to use it properly, and I think that we will eventually get to a position, where we're able to do that as a society. Like I say, you will require the tech companies to modify things, it will require regulation, and it will require self-restraint too. I mean, the way I use social media has changed

in the last couple of years, I used to just love trolling people on it and pissing. That doesn't sound like you, mate. But actually, if you look at my Twitter now, I really don't tend to do that anymore. It's quite rare for me, because I'm trying to be a bit more sensible, a bit more responsible with the way that I use it,

and I think a lot of people are feeling that way, actually. So I think a lot of the solutions will come come from people themselves taking responsibility for their actions. Yeah, I do know what you mean. The part of social media that I... just makes me deeply uncomfortable, and it's this knowledge that our brains are being hacked.

We're shown the most outrageous content because that's the thing that we're going to engage with because it stirs our emotion. And if you feel angry about something, then you're going to want to do something about it. You're going to be... You're going to get into an argument and you're going to spend more time on the platform

and we'll know how it goes. Do you not worry about that? Of course I do. All I'm saying is it's not going away. Yeah. It's like, you know, when the printing press was invented and all these publications came out, again, people who had mostly illiterate

didn't have a chance to read anything like that. And it caused, you know, 150 years of religious war and conflict. So that may happen. Yeah. No, well, good to be positive, right? But you know what I'm saying? It's like the only thing that I can do about that is be responsible with what I do.

and advocate for policies, which I think will mitigate some of those disruptive factors. That's all either of us can do. And I'm trying to do my best, and I think you are as well. And we've got a great interview with Jaron Lanier coming out about that. Yeah, absolutely. And that was a thrill of one of the fathers of virtual reality to talk to him about, you know, the way the internet started, the utopian ideals it had him now where it's ended up. It's a brilliant interview.

Plus, a white man with dreadlocks. Can't go wrong. Yeah, exactly. Definitely a vegan. We don't know that. He might not be. He lives in California, mate, course. Definitely a vegan.

But looking at your book and reading your book, there's an affinity between us in that I think it's because the reason we see the way, the world, the way we see it, in particular the West, is because we've seen something else. Whereas I think part of the problem is that if you're born into this system, well, this is just normal, isn't it? Yeah, you think it's never going to change, you take it for granted. I absolutely agree with you, and that's why I wrote the book because I'm trying to give,

You know, I really, you know, I think there'll be people, of course, who see me as, you know, this culture warrior and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But actually, I've written the book in a way that I hope it will be really easy for people who normally might disagree with me to read. Because I want them to see the West through a foreigner's eyes and understand what in Russia, we have a saying, everything is understood in comparison. If you think the West, let's say Britain in particular, these racist evil countries, the question I always want to ask is, compared to what? This is one of Thomas Sol's great questions for dealing with progressive thinking. Compared to what, at what cost, and I can't remember the third one now, right? But compared to what is a crucial thing.

If you're comparing it to some utopia, maybe you could argue the West isn't as good as it could be. But if you're comparing it to every other human society that's ever existed, we're actually actually doing really well. And that's what I wanted to get across to people. And you know, as you know, probably the most controversial chapter in the book is about slavery. And I make the point in every interview that I've done that, you know, a lot of people are running around saying, oh, we talk about it too much and whatever.

I actually think, and I'm sure you'll agree with me as a former teacher, we don't teach enough about slavery, but what we do teach is only one tiny aspect of it, which is the transatlantic slave trade. But if you put that in a broader context of the human experience, most people don't know that human beings were the first good that was ever traded. Slavery has been with us since the beginning of time. And the only thing that makes the Western attitude to slavery unique, really, I mean, there was a few things that were to do with technology, the ability to transport large numbers

of people across an ocean, although the Saharan slave trade was doing that across Africa, not on ships but on land. But it was really the fact that we ended it. the West ended slavery, when it was happening in Russia, when it was happening in Africa, when it was happening in the Middle East, when it was happening everywhere. The colonial powers actually spent an awful lot of energy

and money and time ending it, and the Trans-Saharan slave trade, which had a higher death rate, which had more slaves involved in it, it only ended because the West came in and basically made it stop, right? So yes, we must understand the terrible periods in our history when we've done the wrong thing

or did things that we know now regret, but it has to be seen as a part of a bigger context. And I think that's really important to get across the people, which is why I use the example of my grandfather who was taken to Germany as a slave laborer during World War 2, or my great-grandfather who was kept in a gulag because he was useful. He was a slave. Like, this isn't as simple an issue as Dr. Scholar screaming about it. Do you see what I'm saying?

Yeah, and also as well, it doesn't take into account that there's more slaves than ever at the moment. Modern day slavery. Right. But we don't seem to want to address that or talk about it. There's not many careers to be built on talking about that. That's the problem. Yeah. And I think that is part of the problem. But one of the things that I've noticed in the West more

and more, and maybe it's just become more aware of it or it's become more prevalent. I'm not sure which is which. It's just the self-flagellation. This constant apologising, which is also, it's not just the fact that people in the West do it. It's if you're Western,

middle class and white, and all of a sudden, it seems for large swaves of these people, they go around apologising for things that happened hundreds of years before they were born. Doesn't make any sense. No, it doesn't, but what I think has happened there is, I talked about this in my first interview of John Anderson, I think it's weaponized empathy.

I think people have worked out that people in the West, particularly people who are comfortable, who grew up with genuine advantages in life, like money and an opportunity to go to a good school, and two parents and all of these things, they feel guilty. They've been made to feel guilty because probably they don't have that many struggles

in their life on the sort of historical perspective scale. And so they need something to sort of invest themselves emotionally into. And there are some people who've worked that out, these activists have worked that out, and they're pushing this agenda, knowing that they're going to persuade people. And that's why you've got Garry Linnaker, who clearly doesn't know a thing about a thing,

didn't know anything about anything, so football, banging on about this stuff constantly, because he gets the likes and the dopamine hits and the whatever. That's why it's happening, because it's weaponized empathy, and then it's rewarded. If you go around self-flagellating, people are going to pat you on the back and say,

oh, well done, right? Whereas if you say, actually, I'm not responsible for something that people did 300 years ago, you're automatically a bigger, you're racist and all this other stuff. So that's disincentivized. But if you think about it, you just pause for a second just take stock of what we're talking about I use this in the book even in the Torah the one of the oldest scriptures which is no by no means progressive

let me tell you right sure it's got a few problematic passages yeah it's probably a bit transphobic it talks about how children must not be punished for the sins of their fathers and fathers must not be punished for the sins of their children we we have gone backwards so far we are now in pre-historic times in terms of our attitudes to things we're literally trying to hold people accountable for something relatives of theirs did that they never even met and in most cases they aren't even relatives for answers they are people who just happened to have the same skin color not even by the way the same ethnicity like you right you are descended from Irish and Venezuelan people right I don't think you

your ancestors would have been that heavily involved in the slave trade, yet someone would look at you and go, well, you're responsible, you need to apologize and you need to pay reparations. This is, ask backward idea that is millennia, like when they were just herding sheep, they knew this was wrong, and we're doing now in the modern world.

It seems to me that, and it's one of the things that we're doing, one of the things that you talked about in your book, that you put it more eloquently than me, it seems like we've got, the West is this block of Jenga. You know, the game Jenga? Yeah. And we just seem to be pulling out pieces randomly

without even considering why the piece is there or actually what it's upholding. That's a great metaphor, and that's exactly how I feel. Mate, I didn't need the book, just that little metaphor is good. But that's it. That's it. And, you know, one of the things I talk about, right, as you know, at the very, very, very end, It's literally the last passage of the book,

is my grandmother, who was born in a concentration in the Gulaig, and when her parents were eventually released, anyone who was a prisoner in the Gulaig was not allowed to live in the major cities of the Soviet Union. They had to live in the periphery, in the small towns far away from the center. And the only people that lived in these remote towns were people who'd been in the Gulags as prisoners,

people who'd been in the Gulags as camp guards and the local native population who were very small. So basically you had, let's say a town of 10,000 people and most of the people there would have been former prisoners in the Gulag. And a lot of the other people were guards in the Gulag. And my grandmother's family lived in the same landing

as a family where the man had been a guard in one of these camps. And when Stalin died, there was a big revelation the Cruzev exposed the cult of personality they condemned all the atrocities and the excesses they said it was not the party wishes it was Stalin himself

and whatever and they basically apologized and exposed what had been happening and a lot of these men who had been guards in the camps they ended up shooting themselves because they so believed in this ideology they so believed that they can demonize people that they

disagree with that, oh, they must be in the camp for a good reason, right? We're justified to condemn these people. We're justified to treat them like their second-class citizens, to talk down to them, to call them names, to bully them. We're justified in all of this because we have the right ideology. And this is kind of my invitation to people who are maybe not naturally aligned with some of the stuff that you and I talk about is don't be one of those people. Don't be one of these useful idiots who goes along with,

treating people badly because you believe you have the right ideology. You're not a good person if you're sending J.K. Rowling death threats. You're not. You're not a good person if you're demonizing people who voted in a referendum in a different way to you. You're not doing good. You're not helping. You're making things worse. And likewise, by the way, on the right, it's the same. You know, every time you genuinely attack people or to dehumanize people who are of a different point of. view to you, you're not helping. Now, you and I will joke and we're comedians and we will satirize and whatever, and that's all fine, you know. But I think that there's lines that we don't want to cross in the name of ideology, and it worries me that here in the West, we're doing that a lot.

And the example I give, you know, the Americans obviously were the first to develop a nuclear bomb, and the Soviets were nowhere near. Do you know how they got one? No. There were two, particularly, there were two very big names. I think Klaus Fuchs is one of his names, and there was another one, two people who were involved in the Manhattan Project in the United States, who were sympathetic to the Communist cause, and they basically gave Stalin, the Soviet Union, the nuclear bomb, because they were ideologically supportive of the regime. That's what ideology will do to people.

That's why one of the opening bits of the book is I talk about how living in the Soviet Union taught me never to buy into someone else's ideology because it will make you always, always make you violate your own principles and make you do bad things. This is actually what I found interesting about Douglas Murray's review in The Telegraph, which he was very generous with. He quoted that line because I think that's true. And that's why, you know, when we talk about the direction of the show, we've all, we never wanted to be on the right or on the left.

We're trying to explore each issue on its merits and not be ideological because ideology will always blind you, whatever that ideology is, whether it's progressivism or conservatism or liberalism or libertarianism or feminism or whatever area you have where you're looking at things ideologically instead of from the basis of the fact, you're going to find yourself doing things you don't agree with later in life and that's why I try and stay away from it. And it's also as well, it strikes me, look, it's all people who follow a particular ideology. When you're so certain about something,

100% certain, it's a dangerous place to be. You should always have room for doubt. You should always have room for doubt because we're all fallible. We're all human, we're all flawed. None of us is perfect. None of us is all seen.

None of us is all knowing. And that's a problem for me with a lot of the ideology that you criticise is that phrase. We're on the right side of history. And my own response is, how do you know? Yeah. How do you know?

How do you know about people 200 years are going to view you? You know, if you look at the way we look at people 200 years ago, it's not favourable. So what makes you think you're any better? I agree. I agree. And I think that's why you've always got to be careful.

This is why I think it's really important to constantly be checking with yourself about your actions. And I'm not saying my action is always perfect, by the way, but I am constantly doing this and going, are my actions the actions of a person that I like and respect? Because it doesn't matter what your ideology is. You can believe in progress and equality and all of this stuff.

But as you and I know from the comedy industry, there are lots of people who believe that and bang on about it while groping women in the green room, right? And it's the same with almost anything. It's like, like I say, if you're a hateful person, I don't care what your ideology is. I don't care how accurate it is. You are a hateful person, right?

And that's my worry with ideology. That's how you can excuse yourself for being a nasty person or a hateful person or a person that attacks people. Or as in the case of our former guest, James Cavarini. You know, he has a fundraiser with Jake Arralling and people now smashing in windows in his restaurant. or writing one-star reviews or whatever,

you know, you've got to check in with yourself and go, this isn't right. Why am I doing this? Why am I attacking people? Why am I trying to smear people? Why am I destroying people's careers? Now, as I say, again, you and I mock people that we disagree with. We mock stupid ideas and we will always continue to do that.

But I'd like to think we've never gone after anyone's career. We've never tried to destroy their livelihood or anything like that. Because I think that's really when you need. know that you've got to the wrong place. And part of the problem as well with this ideology, in all ideologies, is that it's a really easy way for people to mask who they truly are, where they go, oh, I'm this progressive liberal, and it's a fantastic cloak

for this behavior that is despicable and vile and wrong. And we've seen it time after. after time. Like we joke about it in our own industry and comedy. A former industry. We always said it's always awoken comedians that the biggest perverts. Because what a fantastic way to cloak yourself then by pretending to be virtuous. Yeah, exactly.

And so that's why I think it's really important not to buy into any ideology and to think those things through. But I also think, you know, I wanted to write the book because I want to lay these issues to rest. So like we said at the very beginning, we can focus on the things that matter. I think that's really important. And that's one of the reasons, you know,

we talk about certain issues that people would consider progressive, but not as much as we used to, because I think we'll continue, obviously, to call out things that are wrong on both right and left. But as I say, I think we've got a lot of bigger fish to fry at the moment in society, and we've got to focus on that. And I think people are waking up to that, slowly but surely. You know, it's all very well.

screaming at Twitter that somebody has missed, you know, not used the correct pronoun, et cetera, but if you can't afford to fill your car up, does it really matter? Exactly. So that being the case, looking back at the Soviet Union and living in that, what was it like growing up in that country, in that system? Well, this is one of the reasons that I think the book is so relevant now.

I mean, my grandfather, Zawkes, I've mentioned about five grandfathers at this point, and they're all different ones. My grandfather, who lived in the UK, who moved to the UK. The reason he ended up in the UK is that he criticised the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. And when he did this, he was made unemployable, ostracized by many of his friends,

and eventually was forced to leave the country and find a new job. How unfamiliar is that to the 21st century Western countries? someone expressing the wrong opinion being made unemployable and ostracized by their friendship circle. Not that unfamiliar, right? No. So I'm afraid we're adopting some of the worst elements of that society. And there will be other parallels when people read the book and read about some of the things that used to happen. I think you will open their eyes because to most people they think that what's happening in the West now

was new and unprecedented and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, but it's really not. Even if you look at, you know, I know many of our audience will know this because I've talked about this before, but for those who don't, political correctness isn't something that happened in the 1990s and pissed off Richard Littlejohn and Kelvin McKenzie and other tabloid editors, political correctness comes from the Soviet Union. I have a whole chapter in the book about speech and how it's being misused now and the way that words are being changed. And political correctness was a way of preventing people

from expressing an opinion that was counter to the party life. Does that sound unfamiliar? Not really. So this is my point. We are adopting some of the worst elements of the very societies that we spent decades trying to defeat. But it wasn't, like all societies, there was a lot of negatives with the Soviet Union,

but there was also some positives as well. Well, again, I talk about, there's a whole chapter in the book about this, and it was my first ever article that I wrote. It was called Growing Up in a Progressive Utopia. It was on Quillette. And I talk about how little wealth inequality there was, the fact that there was universal health care, education was free,

and in fact, university students were paid to study and all of this stuff. But the cost of it, in my opinion, wasn't worth it, and I detail the cost of it in the book. Yeah, and the little things I just found fascinating, where, you know, well, you didn't really, have a choice about what your career was. No, no, no, you went to university. You may get a choice as to what to study.

And then from there on, you were assigned the job, and you would go wherever you were sent. And that was it. And what happened if you went, well, actually, you know what? I don't want to be a biochemist. I always really wanted to be a school teacher. Look, in different stages, it would have been different. It would have been dependent on the bribes you could pay,

on the connections you had. it was all sort of based on that. But generally speaking, you would get a job assigned to you and you would go and do that job. Do you know one of the things that I found so interesting is when you talked to me about service culture in the Soviet Union and how the way and how in ex-Soviet countries, the service is always atrocious.

Let's talk about that a little bit. Well, this is how you know a Chinese restaurant is actually authentic as if you get shared service. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. In the Soviet Union, the reason that even now, when you go to that part of the world, the service might not be great in some places. It's changing now because the people who are like that are sort of dying out,

or at least not working in restaurants. It's usually younger people. But the reason it was unfriendly and hostile was that the waiter was the one who had the power because they could give you a plate of food that had a lot of meat on it or not much meat on it. And you couldn't really do anything about it. So they were the one that were in charge. It was the same with people who would sell something to you in a shop.

They could get bribes of people to get the right goods and stuff like that because everything was scarce and therefore they had the power over the distribution of it. So in many ways it just incentivized corruption. Of course it did. Yeah, of course it did. Which is one of the reasons Russia remained so corrupt today. And all post-Soviet countries really, particularly other than the Baltics where the problem is less. because they were never really fully part of the Soviet Union that long.

You know, and the last time we were here, we were talking about Putin and we were talking about the invasion. And you saw that coming. Why? Well, especially what was it? Was it the background? Was it seeing the way the West was going? What was it that made you or that gave you that particular insight?

Well, after 2014, he was clear that. he was clear that Putin was going to carry on with what he was doing because there was no pushback from the West. I think after 2020 and Biden's election, it was clear that this was going to be an opportunity. And I think also, like I said, seeing how divided Western society was, I actually think in some ways Putin perhaps made the same miscalculation that I made,

which is I overestimated how divided we are. I thought we're more divided and the response would be less. strong. The response has actually been quite unified other than Germany from Western countries. So I think it was those three things, really. The fact that the United States was taking its eye off the ball with all of the election stuff that was happening there, the fact that the West was being perceived with Russian help, by the way, of being very divided and unwilling to assert itself, and the fact that Putin already took a piece of Ukraine in 2014 and there wasn't really much pushback. So going back and focusing on the things that are happening and the issues that

we're talking about, the big issue is of course, and we've touched on it before, what is a woman? And what we saw and what we've seen recently is this alliance between conservatives and gender critical feminists. Yeah, that was never going to last. No, no, absolutely not. And it's starting to break apart or certainly for at the edges. No, I think it is breaking apart. Yeah. You see now J.K. Rowling having spats with Matt Walsh and all of this. Of course, it's breaking apart.

I think one of the reasons, actually, is that I think the gender-critical feminists feel that they're winning. You know, you've got the Maya Four starter, the Kira Bell, you know, you've got candidates now who are talking about this for running for leadership of the Tory party. You're seeing other changes happening. And I think they sort of think they don't need the conservatives anymore. and that's maybe one of the reasons that they're willing to be a bit more confrontational about it. But the other thing is very interesting. We obviously just recorded an interview with Louise Perry,

who I was very impressed by, who is a feminist, who's written a book called The Case Against the Sexual Revolution. And one of the things that you probably noticed that she was sort of talking about chivalry and not actual equality and stuff like that. And I think, you know, this is probably going to annoy some people, including in our audience.

But it does need to be said. like the problem with feminism is feminists never wanted equality they talked about it but that's not what they wanted and I don't blame them for it by the way I don't think equality in that very narrow sense is necessarily what the right solution is but it was like I mean I'll prove it to you no feminist wants equality because think about this right if you you and I are friends and we like each other but let's imagine that we didn't and I you came over here and spat in my face yeah right the chances are I would hit you that is the code because

between men, we all know it, we all approve of it, is fine, it's the way it's always worked, blah, blah, blah, blah, right? There's not a feminist in the world who says that if you were a woman and you came over here and spat in my face, I should punch you. There's no one who's gonna defend that. If a feminist is asked about that, they'll say, well, male violence, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,

and basically they want you and me to become a little bit more like them, right? And what the smart feminists are starting to realize, actually the sexual, revolution has been really bad for both sexes but especially for women especially for women and i think that's part of the other reason that this alliance is fraying or breaking apart because now that i think the gender critical feminists feel like they're making progress they're like oh shit these guys that we've been aligned with they're not on our team which they're not by the way they're absolutely

not and also they're starting to realize that equality wasn't really all it was made out to be no you know and that's probably going to be the next conversation that we all have as a society because I've always, you know, feminism is a weird word because it means all things to all women, right? There's about 53 different ways of doing feminism, some of which I really agree with and I think are great and some of which I think are damaging and destructive

and quite pointless and just people who are angry at the dad. And we're going to have to work out a path through that as a society because driving men and women apart, which some feminists have tried to do, I'm not sure that's a good outcome for society either. So, as I say, the smart feminists are starting to realize that actually we're going to have to change the conversation a little bit. And I think that will be one of the next things

that we talk about on the show in a big way, I suspect. Yeah, and it's also the role of the family. You sometimes wonder that you see all these people having these pointless conversations on Twitter. No one's really having kids anymore, and you think, well... I am. Yeah, you are. May, when are you going to get started?

Let's get Poon Poon in here. I don't know. When Anton and I get a surrogate, but anyway. Mate, we've talked with Louis Perry about how bad that is. Yeah. How immoral and unethical that is. And I agree with it, by the way. It is. Absolutely it is.

But you do think would people be having these pointless conversations if they had a family? Right. If they were able to settle down, if things weren't the way they weren't. Now, look, you know, you can always say, you know, you can blame a variety of external factors and ultimately your life is in your hands. Yes, I agree with that. But the reality is it's becoming more and more difficult for people to start a family.

And it's creating a wealth of problems that we're seeing right the way through society. Well, that's why I have a whole chapter in the book about the housing crisis. It's not just a book about how the woke are idiots because I don't think there's any value. And I'm trying to talk about how we get to a better society and fixing the housing crisis

is going to be one of the main ways of doing that in this country. It's essential. And this is what really pisses me off about Michael Go ahead. is when he talks about woke people. And I'm like, you're a housing minister, mate. You want people to be conservative,

yet you're not incentivizing them to have to be conservative because they've got nothing to conserve. They've got no assets. So you can shut your mouth. Not that I am a big fan of Michael Gove, but I think the problem extends slightly beyond him. We've seen, you know, we're not doing what we need to be doing for decades on that issue now.

But he's done very little to resolve it. Admittedly, like everybody else in the opinion. But, and so the point is, it's that I think what we talk out a lot on the show and what you talked about in your book is, you know, going back to that metaphor, you know, of Jenga, of pulling things apart. But isn't the problem that there's these people, there's a lot of people of our generation and younger who feel they've got nothing invested in society?

Yeah, I think that's true. I do also think, as you know, you know, I've always been someone who was very interested in personal development and making the most of my life and growing as a person. I do think the circumstances are more difficult than they've been in the past, and I also think they're going to get even more difficult, but I also think that's a reason for people of our generation and younger to work harder, to be more creative, to be smarter.

You know, we can all sit here and complain about the state of the world. If there's one thing I know is if you want your life to be better, you're going to have to do something about it. And that's a great thing about the way. isn't it really that's the thing about the West is almost everywhere else you have to have family connections blah blah blah blah blah in the West if you're smart if you're talented if you're driven if you're creative you will make it and that's always my message to people especially young people young people do

not hear that enough man I didn't hear as a young person enough you live in a society in which you can make it you can make something of yourself and that's one of the reasons that you know I'm I love living in written as you know but I am also very inspired by some of the American ways of thinking as well because that go get it attitude to me is inspiring I think it's really important and I've tried to have that as part of our ethos here on the show you know we've made a lot of ourselves from a very low start I think it's fair to say and I think partly is that you and I both have and Anton as well have that attitude like we want to get better we want to make the

show as good as it possible I want to write a book you're going on a stand-up till We're doing live shows. Like, we want to do stuff. We want to create stuff. And I, that's always the message I have for young people. You know, we talk about in sales and all these people. Like, no one's going to give it to you, man. You've got to go out and you've got to work for it.

And that's so, I hear you on the housing crisis. I know it's a big problem. I have a whole chapter in a book. But also, everybody's just, you're going to have to step up if you want something. Yeah. You just are. And this is a problem is that we've been incentivized to play victim.

Yeah. And I am saying in the book, it's not good for you. Don't be a victim. You're not a victim. Everyone's a victim and no one's a victim. It's not helpful, especially if you're a victim to think of yourself as a victim. It's really not gonna make your life better.

It's just gonna make it worse. So instead of that, focus on the positives, what can you do? What can you create? What can you make that's of value to other people? If you do that in this society, unlike most others, you will succeed. And I think that is a great point to pause it.

And what we're going to do is we're going to collect your superchats, your PayPal, send them through, and then I will look through them during the break with my glamorous assistant, Anton, and we are going to put your questions to Constantin. So, send through your PayPal's, send through your super chats, and during this very short commercial break, makes it sound professional, doesn't it? We're going to collate them, and we're going to put them to Constantine. Thank you so much for watching, guys. We'll be back after these very short adverts.

See you soon. Hey, Constantine. Do you love trigonometry? I'm from Russia. I cannot love anything. Apart from vodka, miserable literature, and a horrendous downfall of my people. But yes, I find trigonometry satisfactory. And do you like live shows?

Of course, but only if it's Chekhov play about collapse of Russian aristocracy as they face death and obscurity before the glorious might of the proletariat and the beautiful revolution. Okay, mate, well, if you like Trigonometry Live shows, then get your credit card out for the lads because we're coming to the Edinburgh Festival this August. We have only booked two shows, August 6th and 7th,

because if we do more, the comedy industry will treat us, like the Tsars and execures. That's right. We're going to be in Edinburgh for two days only. Saturday's guest is Andrew Doyle, which is sure to sell out. Our other guest is Leo Curse, which means when Nicholas Sturgeon hears about it, she'll ban us from Scotland herself. Tickets are sure to sell out, and when they're gone, they're gone.

Click on the link below and we'll see you in Edinburgh on the 6th and 7th of August at the Gilded Balloon Teviot. Come and see us before hordes of left-wing comedians try to put us in Gullag. We hope you're enjoying this is. incredible interview. Did you know that you can ask guests your questions? That's right. When you join our locals' community, not only will you know who we're about to interview, you have the opportunity to ask them your questions.

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and the opportunity to have a meal or a call with us. Click the link below or go to trigonometry.locals.com. and join the community. That's trigonometry.locals.com. We'll see you there. This episode is brought to you by Netflix's remarkably bright creatures. What if a Pacific octopus held the key to a mystery that could heal your heart? Well, that's Tova's reality.

An elderly widow working at an aquarium. Tova forms an unlikely friendship with the cramudgeonly, Marcellus, whose remarkable intelligence leads her to a life-changing discovery. Watch remarkably bright creatures with your remarkable moms this Mother's Day weekend. Only on Netflix Meath. Hello guys and welcome back. Remember that you've still got a chance to send your super chat and your PayPal's through and you'll be able to ask Constantine questions directly.

Do we want them to buy the book by the way? Oh yes and you want that is a good point. Is it? Yeah, it is a good point. So if you buy you can also buy the book and the links are in the description. So buy yourself a copy also available on Amazon. and Kindle and as an audio book as well. Francis, I would say, like, obviously,

I really appreciate everyone's already put the book and people sending Superchance and all of that. The one thing I would ask is if you do plan to get the book, get it now because any sale between now and Saturday gets registered for the Sunday Times bestseller list, and I think I'm very close to being on it, if not already on it, but it's close. So all the sales that happened in this week

are like really, really important. And so if you're planning to get the book, or you're planning to get it for a friend or a family member, but now would be a great time from my perspective. But, you know, I appreciate everyone that's supporting us already. Absolutely. So get the book next month, guys. Now, now get it as soon as you can. So, but thank you everybody for watching. Go for it.

We have got our first question. It's from Emmy Baker Lana. And she says, hi. I love a bit of EBL. Yeah, absolutely. So, so do we all. She says, hi, Constantine. Now, you and your wife have become parents. How will you keep your love letter relevant to him? that he's been born here and won't have had the experience you've both had in your own lives. Well, one of the things that I'm very keen on is that he spends a lot of time with both

our families in Eastern Europe, my family in Armenia, and sees a different world. I know that, for example, you were born in this country, but it was your experience of being in Venezuela and seeing that country that had sort of helped you understand the broader context. So I'm hopeful that, I doubt Nikolai's children will have that perspective, but my children, I think, will. Yep, great first answer. Eleanor Stanesby asks, what part of your book am I going to cry at first?

Hmm. I actually think the preface. Really? Yeah. I cry when I read the preface. There you go. Because I put a lot of, a lot of my, a lot of my biggest fears into it, I suppose.

And also, you know, I wrote it in a way that I think is kind of quite emotional, you know. And yeah, like I say, it's kind of, I hope it's not prophetic, but if it is, then we're all in for a rough time. Okay. Zoe Selanky asks, when writing the book, did it help you come to any new conclusions that you weren't aware of before you know one of the things that writing the book was really helpful is because I had the focus that I wanted I wanted like a random person on the street to be able to pick it up I didn't want it to be some sort of like culture warrior treat treatise you know what I mean so I wanted it to be able to

be read by people who had a different point of view to me rather than just you know throwing red meat to the base if you like it forced me to really examine my arguments and to make sure that they that that I was making a good argument instead of just making fun of stupid people who are on the other side of me. You know what I mean? Because that's very easy. Yeah. I really wanted to make what I thought was a good and persuasive argument that would win over somebody who was a neutral. Excellent answer. Our next question is from Mr. Winter. Oh, great. He says, looks like he's got his big boy pants on today.

Despite the fact that your pamphlet will fill pound land faster than your headline is receding. And despite my book, published when I'm 25 is better. You've done well. So that was the first part. But then he wrote a second part to it where he says, Bigotry aside, well done, my friend. I wish you all the success at Decay and West can provide. My question is, can we stop the tide we stand against?

I think we can. I really do think we can. And that's why I read the, if I didn't think we could, I wouldn't bother writing the book, to be honest. I wrote the book because I think we can. I actually feel that the pendulum is slowing. I don't know if it's swinging back yet. And I have to say, you know, as much as I'm concerned

about making sure the pendulum slows and stops, I do worry about the overswing because for every revolution, the counter-revolution is just as ugly. So I suspect it's quite likely that five or ten years from now you and I are sitting here talking about the evil right-wingers who've gone too far, which at least will be a more natural place for us to be.

Exactly, because... Back to our roots. Yeah, because you're Jewish and I look Jewish, so... Exactly. But you know what I mean? Yeah, of course. I'm concerned, we've got to make sure that in opposing some of the craziness of the left, we don't become crazy ourselves.

I think that's really important. Absolutely. Richard the horse, and what a great question from a horse, says, was one thing from another culture that you think the West could learn from or should implement? Oh, there's no question. And you saw it when you came to... Armenia. It's family. Large families connected through generations, cousins and brothers and sisters who truly love each other and spend lots of time together. We are becoming very atomized in the West.

And I think Ricky Beckson made this point. We talked about how actually a lot of the ethnic minority communities in the UK do have that cohesion and family connection that we are losing. And I think that's really, really important. And I know that it's, you know, one of the most meaningful things in my life like I love my life right the way I love what we do here I love the friendships that we've built with you and with Anton and with other people you know I'm I'm loving everything I loved writing the book I love the fact that it's not even how yet and thousands of people have kindly bought it and I'm going to read it like it's incredible my life you know my wife and I've just had a baby he's wonderful like I love everything but the

fact that I live far from my family is the one thing that you know it's difficult. It's genuinely difficult. And if there was one thing I could change about my life without losing all the good stuff, it would be that. And I do think that far too many people, particularly as families get smaller, as we move after we, you know, leave school or whatever, we're becoming very disconnected. The number of people who end up in a home when they're elderly troubles me very much. It's not how we should treat our family. It's not how we should treat our parents. I'm not judging anyone for the individual circumstances. I'm just saying at the level of society,

the disconnect between different generations is not good, man. And if there's one thing that we could pick up from more traditional cultures, it's preserving the family. It's preserving the big family over generations and over time. That's, to me, that's really, really important. Now, of course, I feel like what we have here is kind of a family, but it's not the same. No.

You know, it's not the same. So, yeah, I think that's really important. And the other thing, you know what it is? Muslims are right about gambling. Horrible, awful, awful vice. No, a joke, generally is. Amy Vowse, who lovely, lovely supporter of the show, she asked, was there a specific moment

when you realize you love the Anglosphere and do you have a favorite historical Anglo figure that you look up to? Hmm, that's a good question. favorite historical figure I don't know what I would say is I am really really interested in the history of the American Revolution

because this was a time when people came together and then they were forced to conceive a new society almost from scratch in very very unusual I would say unique circumstances really and because of that they were forced to think about the way a society should be organized

in the way that we in Europe really don't We're sort of like, oh yeah, you know, everything's worked out. We don't really have to have these conversations. We can just sort of argue about the tax rate and, you know, what a woman is and whatever, and that's it. So I'm really interested in that period, and there were a lot of figures who contributed a lot to the way we now think about things that come out of that period. But in terms of when I realized that I was very, I mean, love is, of course, in the title, but I really think of it more as gratitude. you know and I sort of feel that every day since I became an adult and was present to the difference between what we have here

and what we have elsewhere you know and I tried to you know we talked about it with Richard Granon I think it was that we every time we have a meal here we say grace even though none of us is religious because it just connects with that gratitude that I think is really important to have particularly if you're as fortunate and as genuinely privileged as we all are Mm-hmm. So, Cass 8-228 with a very generous super chat. Thank you very much, Cass. And you said, Francis degenger you were talking about is called deconstruction. It is a Marxist tactic, in brackets, post-modernist, that is meant to tear it apart society, hence her name.

It is meant to deconstruct society so a Marxist equity regime can be in stork. He's got no question. I think he's just making a point. The man paid $100, let him make his point. Yeah, exactly. So that is a point. Cabeza del Vassil, meaning the head of emptiness or empty head, whichever way you want to interpret it, says, if the West were to write you a letter back,

what do you think it would say? And the second question is, what if it was written by Mr. Winter? He would say something about Priti Patel on the second one. I don't know. You know, I might sound cheesy to some people, but I genuinely feel very grateful to be here, as I think you know. And I would just hope that if the West were to write a letter back to me,

it would also appreciate that I've tried to make the best of my time here and contribute to the society. And I feel that even doing the show, not to forget about it going on YouTube, just in terms of the fact that you and I have created something here that employs like, you know, probably the best part of it doesn't people at this point, right? That have a meaningful job that they love and enjoy contributing to. that to me, you know, that's enough. I hope that I'm contributing and I hope that, you know,

I was very touched when Douglas said that he, you know, I express gratitude to the West and my appreciation for it and he said we're lucky to have him. Like, that to me means a lot. Yeah, absolutely. Kieran Joseph says, wondering if FF could, oh, FFF, no, if KK could sign a copy in Edinburgh. I'll sign it as well, mate.

Yeah. Two full one. Yeah, if you come to the live show, I'll come outside and definitely sign it for you, no problem. Perfect, Kieran. So there we go. We're gonna look through. We've got PayPal's as well, don't we.

Well, you do have PayPal's. Gillian Colucci, we do the very Italian, eh. This is not tarot, but we will do the X and then, you're here. Exactly. It says, I increasingly encounter people lacking the skills to form an argument. What modification can be made in social media spaces to help rebuild these skills

and get back to proper human discourse? I don't think it's about social media, I think it's about education. If you're not taught to think at an early age and think through arguments, I mean, would you agree with this as a former teacher? Yeah, we're not taught how to argue. We're not, we're not.

Actually, we started to introduce it. At school? At school, like we did as a group of teachers in the last year of primary school. And we taught our children to have discussions, to, you know, to represent one side, to represent another side, and to listen. But I don't think that goes on in a lot of schools,

Well, one place that you would have noticed it going on a lot is when you came with me to Armenia. Yeah. In my family. Yeah. This is so much of where this all comes from, and it's about parenting. Yeah. In my family, there was a culture of discussing ideas

and debating things and things sometimes getting heated, but no one crossing lines. No. It was just a conversation, which is what you and I often do, Anton and all of us, right? You have to educate children from a young age how to have these discussions. If you don't, you can't then be upset

that they're not doing it. Oh, that I completely agree with you. So, we've cracked through a lot of them, a lot of the old superchats. So, we have got one from Francois Grief. Frenchwif? He's from South Africa. He says, I'm not going to do the rest of it in an accent.

We'll save that for all. Legal immigrants to Western countries are almost always overachievers. Musk is the best example. Yet legal immigrants must jump through hoops to get into America. Britain, Oz, etc. Liberals, on the other hand, and as a general rule,

want to give illegal immigrants an easy entrance. Why do you think that is? And he says, by the way, it feels weird not being allowed to troll two top comedians. Well, I think we've got to be careful. I don't think it's true that everyone on the sort of liberal left wants to make it easy for illegal immigrants to come here. But the reason those of them that do is, look, the right and left both have problems and they're different in nature.

The right is sometimes too cold and clinical and analytical and lacks compassion where sometimes necessary. The left's problem, which is to Franco's point, is they have too much heart and not enough head. And so they're well like, well, I want everyone to have what we have, which is understandable. right but they're not thinking about the practical consequences I think that's where they're coming from and by the way I I'm in favor of allowing a certain small number of refugees who are properly vetted to come to this country but I think illegal immigration is an abomination it shouldn't be happening the fact that you've got people getting into boats and going over the it just shouldn't be happening they're jumping the line they're breaking

the laws of this country. We don't know who they are. We haven't made sure. Look, Francis, I'm a Democrat. If the people of Britain vote to have an open border, I mean, I think that's an idiotic idea, but they're entitled to do that. And if the people of Britain vote for restrictive immigration policy, they're entitled to do that as well. And the problem we have now is that the policy that was that the politicians keep talking about and running on when they stand for parliament and they stand to be prime minister is not what we're getting. And I think that's a big problem. It's a big problem that's storing up a lot of resentment for later. Oh, absolutely, because it puts a pressure on everything. It puts pressure on housing. It

puts the pressure on public services. No, but my point is something else, which is, forget about all that. It's whatever your view of it on immigration is. We're not getting what the people voted for. Of course. That's, to me, the biggest problem. And then, of course, the other stuff, you know, it's a separate issue. So, this is from Karen. And she asked, do you think all the trivial social justice warrior shouting and bullying is being used to distract us from the real problems in the world that really matter. You know, keep the privilege in the West dumb and numb and therefore control the masses and take our freedoms away. Well, I think, I don't know whether there is like a global conspiracy to make that happen,

but that is definitely the consequence for sure. That is absolutely what's happening, Karen. We are distracted, we are divided and, you know, we're missing some important things that are going on in the world right now. We are, we're missing lots and lots of important things. We've just got another one sent through. So here we go. There was about five or six, mate, so. Yeah, we've cracked through a lot of them. And some of them, there was, there was just trolling them

from Bloody Skies. Bloody Skies, yeah. And a few others. Yeah, ban him. Ban him, ban him. So this is from Liam Pulus, or Pools. He says, do you think. You foreigned up his name, yeah, Poulis.

Hey, Liam, Poulas. Yeah, he said, Certifrika. Do you think there is a correlation between increasing multiculturalism and increasing polarization in a country. Can the American Constitution cater for modern radical ideas? Well, two separate questions. I don't want to comment about the American Constitution because it's very much out of my wheelhouse.

But in terms of multiculturalism, I always try to make this, and this is a really important distinction, Francis, between a multi-ethnic society, a society in which there are many people of different ethnicities and a multicultural society, a society in which people are encouraged to retain the culture

which they brought with them from a foreign country. A multi-ethnic society can work absolutely fine as long as people have an overarching common identity that they can all unite behind. For example, we say we're all British, or we're all American. But the moment you start making society multicultural, that is to say, well, look, if you've come here from Russia,

you don't need to become British, You don't need to teach learn the language. You don't need to integrate. No, you live with other Russians in a small ghetto, eat Russian food, speak Russian, don't learn the local language, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. That's a problem. And we have pockets in this country, as we talked with Ed Hussein about. Yeah. Where there are certain communities that have integrated incredibly well.

And there are certain other communities often coming from the same geographical area who've become a world unto themselves, who are insulated, who have their backs turned. upon the rest of society, who practice different customs who want their own legal system, we can't have that. That is a recipe for disaster. Completely agree. Sveng Helga haem,

there's people who are watching this who don't watch Rawho, just like, why are they doing that? And he asks, I still get blank stairs when I use the term, the West. Do you think we'll be able to bring it back fully

into common usage? I think so. I haven't encountered that problem particularly but if you were here at the beginning I made the point that of course the book is called An Immigrants La Letter to the West but I was really talking specifically

about the Anglosphere because I think it's different in the way that it does things to even the rest of the West we don't want to associate it with the French and the Germans No absolutely not mate and according to our guests today Peter Zahan just not looking good for the Germans

you're going to have to watch that episode it is absolutely brilliant Bloody Skies goes, what was wrong on my question? He says there was no reference to pegging and anything else was, I just can't say it, bloody skies. So let's see what we have got left. I think that has got... Anton, is that it, everything?

I think that's pretty much everything. We have run out of time. Guys, thank you so much for joining in. Our plan is that we're going to be doing a lot more of these. We're going to be constantly and our talking. Yeah, I'm going to write a book a month, guys. Yeah, exactly. We're going to be doing a lot more talking about the state of the world as we see it,

the challenges that we are all going to face. Thank you so much for tuning in to this very special episode. Our episodes normally go out on Wednesday or Sunday. That's great. Do we want them to buy the book, though? Yes, I'm going to get to that in a second. Well, maybe they've all switched off by now. Tell them to buy the fucking book.

Buy the book. The link is in the comments. Unbelievable. It is a great read. An immigrant's a love letter to the West. It's a brilliant, brilliant book. I have read it. We have all read it. We urge you to buy it.

Dougie, it's a... Dougie loved it. Douglas Murray. He absolutely loved it. And the Sunday Times. And the Sunday Times. And Peter Bogotian. And Peter Bogotian.

And my mum. And your mum. And your dad. Actually, neither of them particularly read it or liked it. But yes. So make sure to buy it. Thank you so much for watching us. Episodes always go out Wednesday and Sunday 7pm UK time.

It's also available as a podcast. Thank you for contributing. Thank you for watching and thank you if you're listening. Take care and we'll see you soon.