TRIGGERnometry - Ariel Pink: "I Lost My Career for Attending Peaceful Trump Rally"

Episode Date: December 12, 2022

SPONSORED BY: Ridge Wallet. Get up to 40% off with our link https://www.ridge.com/TRIGGER from now until December 22nd! SPONSORED BY: Manscaped. Receive 20% off Manscaped products when you use the code Trigger20. Check out their products: https://www.manscaped.com Ariel Pink is an American musician, singer, and songwriter. Frequently cited as "godfather" of the hypnagogic pop and chillwave movements, he is known to have influenced many indie musicians starting in the late 2000s. Visit Ariel's Substack here: https://arielpink.substack.com/ Join our exclusive TRIGGERnometry community on Locals! https://triggernometry.locals.com/ OR Support TRIGGERnometry Here: https://www.subscribestar.com/triggernometry https://www.patreon.com/triggerpod Bitcoin: bc1qm6vvhduc6s3rvy8u76sllmrfpynfv94qw8p8d5 Music by: Xentric | [e-mail] | https://www.xentricapc.com/ | Channel ID: UCo_8zzSxKeL3arKWVuP8wdQ Buy Merch Here: https://www.triggerpod.co.uk/shop/ Advertise on TRIGGERnometry: [e-mail] Join the Mailing List: https://www.triggerpod.co.uk/sign-up/ Find TRIGGERnometry on Social Media:  https://twitter.com/triggerpod​​​/ https://www.facebook.com/triggerpod/ https://www.instagram.com/triggerpod/ About TRIGGERnometry:  Stand-up comedians Konstantin Kisin (@konstantinkisin) and Francis Foster (@francisjfoster) make sense of politics, economics, free speech, AI, drug policy and WW3 with the help of presidential advisors, renowned economists, award-winning journalists, controversial writers, leading scientists and notorious comedians. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Choice Hotels gets you more of what you value. Comfort in. It's calling your name. Save on the stay. Oh, and free waffles are yours to claim. Book direct at storeshotales.com. You went to a peaceful protest on January the 6th, which was not connected to the riot. That's right.

You weren't involved in that. And that was the moment when things went south. There was hundreds of articles, I think. in papers across the globe that placed me in the headlines at, you know, at the scene of this crazy event, which I don't support it. You know, I don't, I wouldn't storm the capital. I'm like, I'm not an idiot. My label said, we won't be working with Ariel Pink anymore from here on out. I pretty much found out that way. I believe that there was an actually, there was a behind the scenes, there was actually an agreement behind the the moneyed interests, that basically a roundtable that said,

we will not allow any kind of positive speaking of Donald Trump. Do you think a lot of the strength that you're feeling is because you lament in America that no longer exists? Yeah, and I lament the career that no longer exists as well. I'm just trying to explain why I think they would want to destroy someone like Donald Trump. Of course, without their being in. Because they've been brainwashed, because they don't believe in. countries because they don't believe in money, because they don't believe in borders, because they want to destroy the, they don't believe in a country. Those people should not be eligible

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where he attended a peaceful rally in support of President Trump on January the 6th. He was not involved in the riot in the capital, but his career took a dramatic turn. Anyway, Ariel Pink, welcome to Trigonometry. Thanks for having me. I got your intro right. I think the facts we got in there, we're going to talk about all of that before we do. Tell our audience who may be familiar with their work, but many won't be, Who are you? How are you where you are? What has been the journey through life that leads you here to sit and talking to us about this?

Well, I've, I have, I'm an indie musician, an indie, I guess, yeah, I started in the, started in the 90s, but I started in earnest professionally in 2004. And I've had a very steady sort of a sense. It's just been very slow. Billboard hits or anything like that. But yeah, it's been a, it's been a blessing to be able to do what I'd love to do. And I haven't had to sell my soul or anything like that. I mean, you're being uncharacteristically modest for an American as well. You know, you've collaborated with some incredible people.

You're described as the godfather of several genres of music. Like, you've had a pretty stellar career. I mean, yeah, I mean, I'm not, but I'm, but I'm, I definitely, uh, uh, don't see it that way. I mean, I see it as a privilege to work with these people. Sure. And, and, uh, uh, I just think of myself as being a very lucky person, which is why I was, you know, a patriot in the first place. So if any, if I could make it in my own little way, I feel like everybody can.

So, um, and you did make it and you were doing really well. I made it enough, but I didn't make it good enough to, get myself out of the mess that I found myself in. But yeah, so my career was going swimmingly, you know, with the odd hiccup and, you know, season of bad press here and there. I mean, there's been haters since the beginning. That's part and parcel of my whole appeal is sort of like just people just didn't like me since the beginning. That's perfectly fine because I wasn't made to, I was in the, I was in acquired tasteist, I suppose.

But yeah, nobody was ever, you know, felt, you were never going to make a lot of friends by being an Arab Ping Fan. I think it's sort of like, you know, appealed to individuals in their groups and their friend groups. And it was always like, you know, oh, do you like that guy? You know, that's like, that's the one person in the friend group who likes that, you know, and maybe they'd see some other people that are like them at the concerts or something like that.

I don't know. It's hard for me to like, you know, wrap my brain around what my appeal is and and who's listening and who isn't and all that kind of stuff. So I kind of don't like to even think about that. Well, whoever it is that these people who like your stuff, irrespective of that, you had a great career. Yeah. And we'll talk about President Trump and why you supported him and all of that. the thing that I want to get to quite quickly is you went to a peaceful protest on January the 6th, which was not connected to the riot.

That's right. You weren't involved in that. And that was the moment when things went south. Right. Well, I mean, for me, they went south the next morning. Yeah. I imagine. So what happened?

Tell us. Yeah. So, okay. I hopped on a flight last minute with my buddy and fellow musician John Mouse. We both wanted to go show our support. There seemed to be a feeling that we should go because we, well, I'm not going to speak for him, but I was definitely pro-Trump. Why were you pro-Trump?

What? Why were you pro-Trump, Ariel? Well, that's, do you want me to get there? Let's get to that in a second. I think we should carry on. So we got there and, you know, 9 a.m. on the day of the rally, which is what we were there for, it's basically like a concert, basically. Like, you know, with with cue lines and everything like that, you know, at the Capitol. It was very structured.

Yeah, there was their security there. But there was also a, you know, more or less free for all of, you know, just basically like a gaggle of people. you know there's a 500,000 people or something like I don't even know how many people were there but it looked like it was a lot and uh it was a very very um energetic uh not unruly uh crowd of people you know mostly white all that kind of stuff but there's like you know the odd there's lots of people there but i'm just giving my impressions of it so um but it was it was it was people that were basically um that liked him a lot like we needed like i it. So it was cool to see. What I noticed was that there weren't any, there weren't any, like, news vans or anything like that or any reporters at that event, really. There were some in the, in the, the bleachers where they were kind of like, you know, filming him. But there was no, there's no journalists or anything like that, you know, on the scene, you know, kind of like,

you know, there was no, like, vans on the lawn or, like, you know, basically people, like, reporting on it. So I thought it was, I thought that was very strange. And I made a mental note of it. Otherwise, it just seemed like it was, you know, just a huge population of people. It was, like, a lot of people there that were going from the White House lawn all the way past the Washington monument and just, just in mass. And that was done around noon, I think, is when he was done. And I said that, you know, I stuck around the entire time. I got lost from John and my friend's Alex Lee Moyer. So I was basically like, you know, kind of like half-heartedly listening to his speech when he gave it.

And it was kind of like there was like a multi-tiered event. It was like, you know, like there was an opener. There was a Donald Jr. was performing that day. and so was Giuliani and all this kind of stuff. And it seemed like it was like a big, a big rah-rah-rah-rah fest. You know, it was almost like, you know, almost childishly jubilant in that kind of sense.

And there was talk that people were going to go, you know, afterwards or at some point they were going to go to the Capitol and then there was going to be some sort of like other protest at some point, which I, to me, it was like I saw the, I already came to see the main show. Like, I already saw it. I can go home now. I mean, I don't need to go to a protest. That's boring.

Yeah. So, after this ended, we went to the hotel to meet, you know, sort of rendezvous with all all the people that I wanted to see. We ended up in a hotel room. We took a few shots of us just hanging around and hanging out in the hotel. room and and and I pretty much saw them off you know I said I'm gonna stay back you guys I mean I'm just I'm gonna I'm kind of tired I'm just my day's done I can die now happy you know and and so yes then I you know I quickly you know shuffled off to bed they went out they came back

they woke me up I said how to go guys and then they're just like oh it's cool some people got in or whatever I was just like okay great I didn't didn't miss anything thank goodness I knew it was but there was no there was no indication that there was any kind of I didn't I wasn't even aware of any kind of chaotic exchange or anything

or anything like that was out of the ordinary the rest of the day I spent you know trying to hail a cab you know back to the Airbnb with John and we were just kind of like ended up just walking the whole way just walking through town there was no there was no feeling of of emergency or any kind of just you know chaos or anything like that on the streets it was just basically normal day so yeah so so then we went back to the to the Airbnb and you know we didn't really we I can't even remember what we did

just basically turned on the TV and just kind of like, you know, they hadn't, keep in mind they hadn't called the, but Mike Pence hadn't called the election yet, you know, he basically hadn't called the count or whatever, confirmed it or anything. So, so there was no reason to suspect that there was any kind of, I wouldn't have even, it occurred to me that there would be a coup because it was too early for that, you know. I thought that, that might happen, maybe I would, I would, would imagine after something was called and you know against you know in if the election is called in favor of Biden and then people then then then you would imagine yeah I mean maybe they were holding maybe people were holding on to a chance that maybe like he wasn't going to call it like that

would so I wouldn't expect them to to riot before you know right so that night I think I got a few tweets or direct DMs sent to me and it was the first stirring of what was to come I suppose which I didn't even understand was really the case

I mean I guess there was like somebody that like probably fancied themselves a reporter for you know from Italy or from variety I don't even know where they are where they're from but they were just like what are you doing there are you know are you there for real and like i thought it was like it was like word got out well it's weird weird as one i didn't get one sighting on the street and nobody recognized me and i didn't feel like

i was worthy of being recognized among these people so um so i very happily just like i said yeah i'm here to support the president blah blah blah now little did i know that that was that was what had been stirring and with the narrative that had been sort of that have sort of taken shape in the mainstream media and really I think it really happened overnight really and was that this was an insurrection and that this was like a disaster of the dark you know of the biggest proportions known imaginable I didn't even know that they were referring to

anything that happened at the Capitol I I thought, like, you know, like, I wouldn't have said I was, yeah, I'm there. Yeah, I was there. You know, like, I mean, it was just, it seemed like it was just so leading. The questions were just like, why are you there? I'm like, I'm in D.C. to show my support for the president, blah, blah. It just sounded like I was just basically, like, you know, just standing, you know, like, piling. But, uh, but, uh, but yeah, no, I mean, I didn't even know until 7 a.m. the next morning the you know there's hundreds of articles i think in papers across the globe that placed me in the headlines at you know at the at the scene of this this crazy event

which i don't support it you know i don't i don't i wouldn't storm the capital i'm like i'm not an idiot uh but anyway um but you know i you know and i and i feel for the people that actually just, you know, got sucked into it. I mean, it doesn't take that many people to just sort of like, you know, do something, start something and then a bunch of people just basically follow suit, you know. So I feel like it's, you know, it's a shame that there's people that have been sitting there in jail for as long as they have without any kind of real trial. But anyway, so yeah, so then, so.

The next morning I was, you know, texting with my record label, and they're just like, you know, they're like, I'm so pissed. What are you? Why didn't you tell us? And I mean, I'm just kind of like, why didn't I tell you what? What are you talking about? And they're like, you could have told us. You could have told us that you were going. And I was just like, I mean, it still wasn't clear to me what the whole thing was.

I wasn't like listening to the mainstream media. I was just getting my stuff together and about to leave. Arrow, sorry to interrupt. I'm really interested in everything you're saying. A lot of our audience would be quite politically, they'd consume a lot of media, they'd be aware of what's going on in politics. What you're saying about this part may seem almost beyond belief

that somebody wouldn't realize how significant that was. But you're not actually that interested in politics, are you? I'm not a politically applicant. No, not at all. I've never voted. This is the only election that I ever tried to vote for, vote in was, well, there's two. There's, I think it was a Nader.

Ralph Nader. I voted for him. Never voted for anybody after that. And then, yeah, and then I voted in 2020. But I didn't vote in 2010. So you were genuinely unaware that you, going to a Trump, even a Trump rally, would actually, because forget about the quote-unquote insurrection, there are a lot of people to whom attending a Trump rally for a musician would be

seen as controversial. Oh, and I mean, but I don't hang out with those people. I mean, as far as I know. Yeah. I mean, like, you know, controversy. Yeah. I'm just a little surprised that you were surprised that your label would, would text you that.

Well, I'm surprised because not two days prior to that, like, you know, we were talking. I mean, these guys are people that know me, supported me, had my back. I've been pro-Trump in. I was never shy about it, although I think people probably thought it was trolling at first. You know, people don't take me seriously when I say anything really, so, which is fair enough. but really it was uh you know we we had spoken not not a week prior to to to my going there and and they had given me the reassurance that they you know that they would never have any issue with my right my freedom to actually vote for the guy you know we can disagree on it and all that

kind of stuff and we we was it was totally civil there was never any kind of like you know we never were at blows with each other. I mean, I don't believe in that. I was just, you know, just call me a contrary. You know, I have my reasons for why I voted for him, and I should be able to do that, even if I have no reason to vote for him. That's pretty much how I feel about it. Fair enough.

So keep going. So, so, so, but all of a sudden, they were kind of like, they had, they had, the, the, the tone changed, and it was like I had done some extremely bad thing and that it was a huge misstep. But basically they got inundated with the cancel mob and they basically had to field it. And they were so angry about it that they had to basically find an outlet or they had to blame it on somebody. And they think that the best person to point to was me because I was the headline. So obviously like I must have like, you know, tripped their wires and basically done something to to invoke the wrath and that's that's you know it was a big wrath and I I couldn't have been

worry unaware of it so um from my perspective it was very kind of oh well you guys are you guys are low lives if you think I mean why don't you call me why don't you talk about it you want you ask me what's going on what happened you know what happened you know they didn't even bother doing that they basically were immediately down my throat and and then and And them, not just them, but my friends, literally everybody that I had in my circle who was basically, you know, who knows my feelings, mind you. They'd never given me any indication that politics would ever be a sticking point. So there's no reason for me to actually, in my mind, there's no, there's nothing to, you know, if people want to say, like, how could you not know, and how could you think that, like, it was okay to vote for this? guy, well, nobody that I know was ever telling me otherwise. Nobody was telling me that, like,

you know, our friendship was on the rocks because of it. And in fact, I had nothing but enthusiastic people that thought, you know, that were mildly amused by it. And for all I knew that they felt the same way or not, you know, but I was, oh, I was just used to, I was happy with, the fact that, like, I was the only person in Hollywood that pretty much was outwardly pro-Trump. That thought that was pretty amusing and a pretty strange. I mean, I feel like I'm more famous for that than anything I've ever done in my career, which is odd. It's not, you know, I've grown up in Hollywood and there's always some conservatives and some, some, there's always like, you know, a few Republicans in Hollywood that, you know, but it didn't seem to matter in the past.

so people didn't have to be secretive about it. And there was, you just, you just didn't know what people, really, who they voted for. But it really didn't matter because it's one or the other. And we got along. There's never a problem. So for me, I didn't, you know, there was something unique about, about the environment or the sort of the cultural climate that was, that made me, want to actually vote this time. So it was obviously something that I was aware of that, you know,

like there was just, there seemed to be a very, a psychology that was descending on people that I knew, that I felt like I needed, you know, I needed to do something about or like stand up in some sort of way and say something about because I didn't like cancel culture. I didn't like what it was doing to people. that I knew. And I didn't like the way it made everybody so feeble

and almost it made everybody a passive enabler by virtue of the fact that nobody could do anything about it. So basically everybody just sort of folded to it. And I thought that this was a very weird phenomenon because it seemed to me that it was almost illegal in some sort of sense. I'm surprised it never happened prior to that. It just seems like, you know, why didn't this come up at any other time in my life?

And I feel like we've had protections in place to guard against that in the past. And somehow those protections actually got like got stamped out or ignored and are not being exploited by, I think it's just, it's kind of too big to fail kind of mind. mindset that's basically like taken over everything and it's taken over the legal system too. Well, I know Francis wants to ask you about Trump and all of this other stuff, but just to wrap up this part of the story, January 7th, 2021, you wake up, you have these conversations with your label. How quickly do you then find that you basically don't have a career anymore? Within 24 hours, I got, I saw there was a statement that went out on Instagram that said, my label said

we won't be working with Ariel Pink a.k. A.k.a. Ariel Rosenberg anymore from here on out. So I pretty much found out that way. Wow. And without a phone call, without anything.

And from there, that sort of made the whole issue of whether I was or wasn't at the insurrection. a moot point because basically it confirmed it in the minds of everybody. And so that was when, you know, essentially that became a viral article in itself. It's like, oh, he gets dropped. And very quickly that sort of gave the green light to every troll in their mother to basically come out after me.

And it basically put me on the receiving end of death threats and the likes of which I've, you know, I'd never experienced before and hatred that was just, that was unleashed. Of course, you know, it was, it was unleashed on members of my family. It was unleashed on those closest to me. Everyone that was in my circle ran for the hills. I mean, I mean, I mean, I've made new friends. And I have a wife and child now, and people know me now. she stuck by me but

but very few people stuck by me and it's not just it's not just on on political lines like you know I haven't really spoken that much to

my buddy who I went to to the rally with so I mean they all got scared they all I mean they didn't want to get their my stink on them I mean it's it's assassination by association. So that's what happens. Everybody's basically like, you know, running for cover. Well, the guys you went to the rally with distanced themselves from you. Right. They didn't

know. They were scared that they're going to, they might have a, I mean, I'm guessing that this is, they were scared. They were scared. They didn't want to have people, the FBI out their doorstep. You know what I'm saying? I mean, he was actually at the thing. And arguably, Arguably, he's one of the reasons that, like, you know, that they assumed that I was there because he did a selfie or something like that and posted that. And then they saw that they knew because of the photographs in the hotel room, they put two and two together. They assumed, there was no eyewitness saying that I was there. That's the thing.

Okay. So they just, the reporting on it basically took me. Everybody was basically making up these things because they needed to make them up. And this is the feeling that I've been getting from, chiefly from the left, the left wing media for quite some time now. I think they still do it egregiously. I mean, you know, I'm sure the right wing media, I'm sure Fox News does it too, but less so, I think.

But there seems to be a, they don't care about the facts. anymore. And they're expecting me to like actually believe that they can actually, that they, they can actually be accountable for things. I mean, I mean, it would make a big, it's an important distinction. If I wasn't there, if I wasn't there and I wasn't attending and it wasn't part of the most, you know, the most, the darkest day in the history of the United States, which is what Biden says that it was, okay, like since the Civil War. Don't worry about it. He's forgotten about it already. No, about, well, everybody's, but everybody forgets it.

I mean, he's, he's not forgotten about it. He came out like the Darth Mall in the latest thing, you know, saying that, that MAGA extremists, you know, not, not, he's not even, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's like, Republicans are good. Republicans are okay now, but, like, it's the mega extremists. And, I mean, that's, when you say that, that's, what do you, What is that, what are you setting up? What do you, what do you got down up your sleeve?

What are you saying? And I've seen the smear campaign that they've done over the past. I mean, they haven't, they haven't repatriated anybody. They haven't gotten on any. They haven't unified the country. He's supposed to, you know, he's supposed to unify the country. But he's only, only stigmatized and ostracized, as far as I can tell. You would have thought that.

By now, my friends would have came to their senses and realized that the coast is clear and maybe like, you know, they flinched or something like that. And it would come back and say, like, sorry, we weren't there for you, blah, blah, blah. But we know that that's not the way the world works. And there's probably a lot of shame there, which I'm, or maybe there's just still a lot of anger from them. A lot of them probably have to, like, have to convince themselves that I did something to to provoke their

their distance and their you know to get to make them weary of ever talking to me again so and I know for a fact that there are certain certain people that I know that were just yeah they kind of like some of them did you know they had basically do some sort of social thing they had to go onto Twitter

and by virtue of the fact that they were associated with me and known to be associated with me. They had to, in order to, like, you know, save face or, like, they even get back in the good graces of their circles, they had to make some sort of gesture, like, you know, like, it's so sad to see Ariel go down this path. I knew the drugs were, you know, were, I told,

I knew that he was going down the terrible path, and the drugs have just gotten to him. He needs to go back home and take it, you know, and reassessing. his life and I hope this is a wake-up call for him. Ariel, why is it that, now, the very famous Hollywood actress and star, Curse Ili, passed away a couple of days ago now. Oh, I hear about that.

Yeah. Yeah. And she made a point because she was a Trump supporter. And she said the words, it's fine in Hollywood to smoke meth and sleep with hookers, but it's not fine to vote for Trump. Why is that? That's the question. I mean, I wouldn't venture to know the answer to that.

It is the facts. Yeah, why can't, why is Hollywood, you know, when half the country, like, you know, voted for him, arguably more. Because I guess the question that I'm trying to get to, Ariel, is artists, they're meant to be the free thinkers. The whole purpose of art or music in many ways is to see the world through the eyes of someone who looks at the world slightly differently, who looks at the world slightly askew. You'd think that that that was the case, but apparently there's not the case anymore. And that's, and there was never, nobody told me. I mean, I might have never done it if, like, I basically realized what was, what was, what was risking. I didn't realize how thoroughly,

everybody, I underestimated how, just how enslaved my, my, my friends, my peers, my entire city, how everybody would just basically, was, because what I think it is is that, like, people just really care so much about what other people think about them now, more than they ever did before. In the past, I think they've cared about it, but there wasn't a big enough, I don't know, I just think that like, you know, something about social media kind of probably makes people hyper aware of what they appear like to other people. And that makes that some sort of anxiety sets in. And people literally will, they'd rather, you know, jump in the ocean than actually risk losing their friend group. Hey, KKK, do you believe in spring cleaning?

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Get 20% off and free shipping with the code Trigger20 at Manscape.com. That's 20% off and free shipping with the code Trigger20 at Manscape.com. It's time to throw out all your old hygiene habits and upgrade your life. You say that, and they're very like strong words, you said that people were enslaved, your friendship group were enslaved. Now, I imagine that a lot of your friendship group are artists. What effect does that then have on us? art and the art that you are creating and the art that Hollywood creates if people are enslaved?

Well, I think that's, you know, these are the questions I need to be asked and I'm not, I don't know. I don't know what it means. I don't, I just know that it can't be good. I don't think I would ever encourage somebody to go down the path of self-expression if, uh, with, in this climate, I mean, I, you know, and I never thought I'd ever say that. I never thought that like the First Amendment was, was that up for debate. I thought it was one of those just those pillars of American democracy. I just never thought it would even ever be up for question. But now you hear people, you know, saying that, like, you know, free speech is like, you know,

it's a right-wing conspiracy. It's a right-wing thing. Do you point. Yeah. And as if it has anything to do with partisan politics. It's like it's the first amendment. Every other amendment afterwards, it's not like it's like down on the list, not like 26 or like abortion rights.

Like everything flows from the first amendment. The only way that you have a constitution is by stating that thing. And so if you throw that out, I don't understand like what you think you have after that. I mean, do we have a republic? well no it's it's it's to me it's it's in my opinion it's a no-brainer i mean i'm not even that political but like it's just i could see i understand like what would happen if like we started to ban things the same way that uh you know other countries seem to ban things and it seems like it's you know freedom of speech seems to be a good a good way to sort of a

sort of a good baseline for basically what you want to call it. Like allowing people to say things, and I've said lots of things. You know, and I didn't, if I had I known, I never expected that those things would come back to haunt me especially. Because I, but I was definitely like, you know, I was taking the temperature always of the free speech that I had in the platform that I had. And I felt like I could be pretty, I didn't think like I had to basically, be honest as much as I allowed myself to be unvarnished. You know, like I basically was just able to free associate in many interviews and I got this, you know, you can look up my interviews, you can see what I've said. I never thought that those things were going to be used against

me later on. I mean, I was exercising my free speech and, you know, I'm not worried. about people, you know, coming up to me and saying, well, you said that, you said that. Do you believe that? And it's just like, maybe I do, maybe I don't. It doesn't matter because there's free speech and I can say it. And nobody's going to deny me that because there's free speech. I mean, as long as I don't do anything. But surely, Ariel, the pushback to that is, yeah, but free speech does have certain consequences. If you say something, people will never to be think, well, that's what you believe in. Therefore, you are, that, that, I've said that, like, I love the Westboro Baptist Church.

Now, you know, I got a lot of flack for that at the time, too. I mean, it's... Really? Yeah. I can see, mate. That's kind of a... Well, but, I mean, people don't really investigate it. They think I'm just being edgy and are just being, like, provocative, and I am. But, like, there's more to it than that. I mean, they are human beings.

They have a reason for being that is sort of, like, not talked about. I'm I'm I'm what they do is they sort of they like to tell people that they're they're going to go to hell but they're telling people that don't believe in heaven or hell that they're going to go to hell and it gets these people upset they shouldn't be upset because they're not going to go to hell they don't believe in it but they are managing you know it's a family of lawyers they're just these people are they're they're provoking people to basically physically assault and basically seizing on that weakness, I think. That's kind of like what I liked about it, was that it was basically calling people's bluff and basically like anybody that basically would attack them for saying, you're going to go to hell. It's like, who cares what they're saying?

If you're going to, you know, what is the big deal? Like, I'm rubbing your glue. Whatever you say bounces off me and sticks on you. It's just words. And you need, the confidence. Consequences are that people get physical. They get driven to do things and then they think that, you know, and then these lawyers probably like, you know, their whole reason for being is basically like just seizing on that. And I mean, I don't think it's a very noble purpose, but I think that it actually has a very American thing behind it. But surely, aren't words a reflection of your character, Ariel? Like, for instance, you know, you say that you were being provocative and you are a provocative person.

and I would say that you're a contrarian. I mean, world-class contrarian. Yeah, exactly. That goes to the American modesty. So doesn't that then reflect your character, the words that you use reflect your character, like what you said about Westboro Baptist Church, doesn't that reflect slightly who you are and the way you think? It reflects on who I was or what I was saying at the time.

You could extrapolate all sorts of things, but the consequences of that should not be, you know, I could say that I did something totally illegal. The fact that I didn't do that thing should make it clear of consequences, I think. I mean, I mean, like, I can say, what I'm saying is that people, what's true and what isn't, and what's honest and what isn't is a very, very, it's a murky area, it's murky area. What I'm saying is that, like, things are not always what they seem. Don't judge a book by its cover. Read between the lines.

And maybe I'm wrong about lots of these things. All right. Well, speaking of being wrong, since Francis refuses to ask him the bloody question, I'm going to ask it, which is, why did you support Donald Trump? You say you're not political. You say it's not something interesting. I felt like Donald Trump, I related to all these people hating on him. I'd experienced that kind of, that kind of, that kind of, that kind of, that kind of media attention

that, that he got. I mean, he got it so much worse than I did ever. Yeah. But, but I had, but I know, I'd been involved in media long enough to know exactly what they do. And I'm no stranger to the, the sort of, you know, the sort of a lynch mob out there. like, you know, liable to sort of, these hate campaigns that they try to do to smear something. You take somebody's words and basically, like, you know, recast them as the enemy to basically

make them stumble and make them like, you know, a flinch or screw up or say something even more, you know, and make themselves to sort of like, you know, prove them right. and essentially, you know, it's like a, the media really likes to take, take down its, uh, its subjects. And it likes to bring them up and then it basically loves to take them down. And so, and it didn't really work for me, for them. I mean, with regards to me, I mean, first of all, I was never anywhere that, what's to take down.

I mean, I never really got anywhere. Nobody knows about me. But, but, but, but the point is that, like, I, I had experienced, uh, a, uh, an intense smear campaign on me that was completely holy out of the whole cloth, you know, without any reason. I'd experienced several of those. You know, and people saying that I was a misogynist, people say, people, yeah, referring back to the interview with the Baptist Church,

that I like the Baptist Church, that was a big deal. I mean, I've said something like I didn't, I didn't believe in, I didn't believe in gay marriage or something like that. I think it was like I didn't believe in marriage actually. So they just thought, far less controversial position. Yeah, no, exactly. It's strangely enough. Yeah.

But, but, but, but, so, so these are just, you know, these are just things that I said. Yeah. And that's the point is that like, you know, people take these things way too seriously. They take what people say. It's happening with Kanye right now. I mean, I, and this is a hot topic. is what he's saying is he an anti-semitic is that is that what we're talking about it's like well in my opinion as somebody that's been attacked and stigmatized by the media and by the guy's got

he had a family he has he's been he's been called crazy by everybody by the media he's he has he has to basically redeem himself in the media's eyes i mean that's just you're just basically like, you know, you're just like poking at this person. You're not going to, he just does not know. I feel sorry for him. I mean, I feel for the guy because I know what it feels like to basically have the world against you. Okay, but hold on a second. Hold on a second.

And I'm not excusing him. I know you're not excusing him. And I feel sorry for him as well because I don't think he's very well mentally. Okay. And I think there are people using him. However, if you go, no one is poking him. He chose to go on all those podcasts. He chose to say, I like Hitler.

And Alex Jones is there going, I know you're just trying to be shocking. And Kanye says, I'm not trying to be shocking. I like Hitler. I think in that situation, you can't expect people not to push back against us. Well, let's sue him for a trillion dollars. I mean, I mean, that's what they did to Alex Jones. I mean. Yeah.

But Alex Jones defamed people. people whose children were victims of... Did he? Yes. That's what the court found. That's why he's being sued. That's why he's going to have to pay $1.5 billion. But that is a different separate issue.

The Kanye thing is... See, this is one of the problems with, I think, with our societies. We've got to a point where we're prepared to like people just because they're saying, fuck you to the mainstream, right? So this is why I was curious why you like Donald Trump, because... Sorry, you didn't even say you. like Donald Trump, why you voted for him. And the answer you gave is, well, I know what it's like to be smear.

We all do in this room. We've all been smear. I think I definitely, well, if I'm going to be honest, I mean, what I felt was that I really, when we voted out, when we didn't, when we voted him in in 2016, I think that was the, that was a memorandum. That was basically like a, a, that was. That was us saying that we didn't want that regime that had been there prior. We all thought that we were all told that we were told that he had no chance of winning by the media.

The media in, and I'm talking about the right wing and the left wing, was in unison and hated one person, okay, before he ever stepped foot in the White House. And they accused him of all these things. and they really just did it was the first time that it occurred to me that the media was actually in the pocket of a specific party and more than that that specific party was also the other party

it was just basically controlled opposition they were against him because he was an outsider and they thought that they could just basically tell you what you were going to do and the difference between like I think between now and then is that I think that they were, I think there was a level of wishful thinking

on the part of the media and liberals at the time. They were basically saying this is what's going to happen, this is what's going to happen because they hoped that that's what was going to happen. Now, when they said he's not going to actually have another four years, they were saying there's no way he's going to have another four years. We're not going to let it happen. And that's the impression. And they meant it. What I'm saying is they made sure

that there wasn't any chance of that happening. Whereas back then, they were just saying it hoping. And I think that that's what, that's the extremism that you've sensed nowadays and the sort of heightened tension everywhere is because of that. And that's the thing, that to me is what's really the difference in all this. And, um, sorry.

Go, go, go, go free. Go, you go and then I go. Okay, cool. So, um, all of that makes sense to me. I personally, I'm not a fan of Donald Trump. Neither is Francis. Neither are I care. No, it's fine.

Yeah. But I agree with you entirely. And I've written a lot and talked a lot about the fact that he was not treated fairly, the suppression of the Hunter Biden laptop was an outrage by the big tech companies. A lot of lies were told about Donald Trump. I am not at all comfortable with the fact that both sides in 2016, the Democrats, they denied the results of the election. Hillary Clinton is on record saying he's an illegitimate president.

So I agree with you that he was not treated fairly. And that's because of the visceral hatred that a lot of people felt toward him. Right. And so your reaction to go, well, these people are all demonizing this guy, I'm going to support him. I understand. But I also think it's quite a sad state of affairs that that is how we make our decisions about who to vote for. Would you agree with that? Well, you know, from what I, I know it sounds, it sounds kind of like, you know, just as bad. But I'm intending to feel like the people that get canceled these days have a, have. have a funny way of being really decent people. And they're being canceled almost because they're decent. Do you think Donald Trump's a decent person? I'm inclined to think maybe he actually is.

I wouldn't have thought so before, but now that I start to see, when I see Winston, stuff like Winston, people like Winston getting canceled, me, other people that I know, the only thing that they seem to have in common is that they're sensible. And I think that, like, you know, there seems to, it seems the canceling. You know, like, I mean, there's always been, you know, I think the right wing, the difference is that the right wing, like, doesn't really have the power to cancel anybody. They might want to. 20 years ago.

But, hang on. But even then, even then, even then. But they canceled Milo. Milo Unopolis was canceled by the right, and Milo would say that in his own world. Well, that's different. What I'm saying is that they don't have, they can't cancel anybody on the left. Okay?

They, they, they, I expect to see a bunch of people at a Maryland Manson concert always, you know, in the parking, basically like, you know, protesting it and trying to like, you know, stop it from happening. It never happens, okay? Because they don't have the power to do that. And I, I, I, but I applaud their, their efforts.

They might want to cancel that. I mean, I think everybody wants to be able to cancel. They don't have the power to. The left has the power and they use it. So they basically, in my opinion, they have a responsibility to use it wisely or to use it sparingly because it's an abuse of power. The right doesn't have the power to prevent a personality like Donald Trump to come in on the Republican ticket.

Because basically they are, they've been kept weak. by the Democratic Party as a matter of strategy, they're basically, the Republicans have been toothless since the Clinton era. And that's been their strategies. They're just sort of like, you know, have the suit come out every election season while then you have, you know, Clinton come on in our studio hall and fucking play a saxophone and basically go them out of the water. And, I mean, they're just there to make Democrats look good during elections. season. And that's that's how it feels. I mean, they're just, they don't have any charisma.

They don't have any appeal. They don't really have any, they don't have any message, that kind of stuff. So what I appreciate, I mean, and Donald Trump was a Democrat prior to, prior to this. So what I appreciate is that he wasn't as bad as they said he was, as they feared he was and as they accused him of being before he even stepped foot in in the White House. They never gave him a chance. He didn't destroy the country, although they just wanted to say that that he did. But he didn't, he didn't have any designs. He didn't kill people overseas. He didn't put this in war. He's not that bad as far as I was, I kind of liked, I kind of liked not having, not being at war for four years. It was nice while lasted.

Ariel, it seems to me, like listening to you that you feel that we're being manipulated. Yes, I do. Why is that? And who, who are the people and who are the ones doing the I think, you know, I'm not going to name names, but it's been out in the open since since as far as I can remember. I mean, like, I mean, is it any, is it any, you'd understand too. Like, I mean, I, I, I've toured the world. I've, I've been touring the world regularly, like, like, 100, 130 days a year, on average, I would say, for 20, years or very 18 years I would say up until uh yeah a little bit before the pandemic so I haven't towards since then um but uh so I've spent a lot of time abroad and I've been you know I've I've

been to places that I never would have thought I would have go I've been to Alon Bataar I don't think anybody in my city has ever gone to Olaan Bataar I don't think anybody in rock and roll has ever gone to a little Llan Batar I've been to I've been to Moscow in the St. Petersburg. I love these places. I have audiences everywhere. I feel like I need to call each one of them, all my fans in these places,

and apologize for things that my government does. And I feel it's unfair, and they shouldn't have to suffer. And I feel a deep empathy for for I mean I just feel like you know we can be wrong sometimes

you know we gotta just admit it if we don't if we just I'm I was I'm pro American but like I can't do it anymore man so who come back to the manipulating point

because I think this is I hear a lot of people saying stuff like this but they never really explain what they mean and you just didn't either which is okay well I'll say what else, I'll be more blunt about it. When I was in my, you know, in the late 90s, I remember a guy named Bill Gates coming out and saying, you know, some of the big, the biggest worry for humanity is, you know, overpopulation.

And basically, we need to reduce the population by such and such. And this was just something that he just said multiple times. I remember it like it was yesterday. Then you have the pandemic happen and he's behind the vaccine. And he's out there basically pitching the thing and saying that this is going to save lives. And I'm thinking to myself, what if it saves lives? What if it works out? What if these things actually save lives?

What will happen to your prediction about what will happen to your vision of the future where you say that we have to like actually reduce the population by a significant amount? I mean, this is to save humanity. To me, it seems like the whole program has been sort of pushed on us. The whole climate stuff. And this is where I get, you know, I'm probably your garden variety, tinfoil hat, QQ, QNon kind of style conspiracy theorist. But this is out of their mouths. Why would I ever like listen to that guy for health?

when I know what he thinks is like, you know, the prescription for our future. When I know that basically he's already said that, like, you know, climate is the most important thing. And yet none of our, you know, deals across the world in the past 20 years have reduced any carbon emissions. It's only been exacerbated. And this is with, I just don't understand. I feel, I'm starting to feel like it's, and I feel like they're panicking because they start to realize like how, how intensely they pushed these things on us. They were, they were being alarmist. They're trying to basically push these things into the foreground.

Like we have to get, we have time out guys. We got to focus on saving the trees, saving that, you know, getting rid of these greenhousemen at the beginning, basically reduce the population. all these things that basically, to me, seem like they were a little bit, I mean, it's just they set it up. I mean, they basically like, who's the they? So we've got Bill Gates on the board. So Al Gore, the same person that basically gave us the, who pitched the internet and gave us, you know, gave everybody, you know, said there was going to be this breakthrough in communication. And gave us, gave everybody a sample,

taste back in the day, the whole world, and got everybody hooked on it. And it seems to me like it's almost the control that they have been able to affect in the results globally. It took about 20 years, but I think they've really, they've honed it and they've, it's meant, you know, they've been saying, this is where it's going, this is where it's going. You don't have a choice. AI is going to, it's a boogeyman that's like in the distance. It's there. It's like, it's like, Well, why don't we turn it off then? I mean, why don't we turn around? I mean, like, what I'm saying, like, why do we think that's a good thing?

Is it AI dictates all of our choices? Why is that a good thing? How is that going to work out for our country as an American's? How does globalism, I mean, is that not globalism? The Internet is global. How does that not, how does that not, is that a free speech platform? Yeah, it's pretty free speech. It's unpleasable.

But how is that not going to do that? to destroy governments worldwide. How's not going to interfere? How is that not meant to interfere and destroy? I know. I hear what you're saying, but what about, I mean, it seems like this is the eternal story of humanities. We invent technologies that break the existing order.

But we seem to have, there seems to be a predestination that's sort of like. Why do you say that? What's the predestination? Where, wherever they say it's going. Like it's inevitable. So where are we going then? Where they say that we're going. Which is what?

We're going to have a, a, a very, you know, what they say, I guess it's a, we're going to go. What is the Great Reset thing? It's like you're going to be, you're not going to own anything and you're going to be happy. You're not, you know, they're the digital currency. They're getting rid of money. It's all, it's all been decided in advance. And I think that like, it seems, I mean, if that's, not the case, then I'm wrong, you know. But it seems to be that like everything's been

that's accelerated ever since Donald Trump got in power. Do you think Trump was an antidote to that then? Do you think he was one of the people fighting back against that? I think he was a mistake. That's just my personal opinion. If I'm wrong, then he was a plant. And either way, it's still the fault of the other side. So basically, there's still, there's still the bad guys way the other. The issue that I have with this way of thinking, Ariel, is I just don't think human beings, any human being, is that competent or that intelligent to be able to create this kind of, this kind of like... Conspiracy? Well, yeah. It's not conspiracy, though. It's, it's, I don't think that, like, the people on the left are aware that they are basically colluding in these ways

out of some sort of like knowledge. I don't think it's like an intellectual thing. I think it's a, it's a, it's a, it's, they, they are willing it. I think I, the power of the mind manifests things. And I think that like it's, it's a, it's a strange thing where you have basically everybody acting a specific way. And then all of a sudden, everybody's basically acting in unison against some other party.

And it's so easy to basically like turn everybody into, you know, a sort of a good faith policeman, you know, for their social order or whatever. But this is the point I'm trying to make to is this is the entire story of humanity. It happened in the Soviet Union where I grew up.

It happened in Nazi Germany. It happened... That's right. We don't want it to happen here. No, no, of course we don't. It happened during the Salem witch trials. It happened in almost every civilization at one point or another because human beings are tribal. Human beings are largely conformist.

human beings are influenced by a small minority of people to believe things that aren't true. And this is what happens. But once you start to say, well, they have orchestrated this, this is where I struggle to see it because you're making claims that to me, because of what Francis says, just seem quite unrealistic. Like to get a bunch of people, you don't have to call it a conspiracy. Like, we run trigonometry, which is like a small YouTube channel with like 10 staff. Let me just finish this point, right?

We can't get a fucking episode to go out on time. Now, we are probably not as smart as Bill Gates. I'm just saying that human... Yeah, you are. Okay. Well, that's very kind of you to say, or maybe unkind of you to say. But my point is, it's hard to get anything to be the way that somebody intended. And human beings are very complicated.

And I agree with you that when you look out into the world and you see, like sometimes I look at the way people on the right and the left talk about certain issues and it seems like that you know that NPC thing that people talk about, non-player character where people are not thinking. They are regurgitating a line that they heard somewhere else. Like I just

did a bunch of articles and tweet threads about the Hunter Biden lap story going like, no, no, this is a big story. Elon Musk putting out what happened is a big story. And all the negative replies, they're literally copy paste. Like they say the same stuff and whatever.

But do I believe that they got handed out that talking point at, you know, some kind of meeting with Bill Gates? Probably not. Do you know what I mean? Do you believe they're real people? Most of them are, yeah. Right. Okay. So then don't you feel like it's at that this is the most, it's funny that at this time, you know, not any other time prior, that at this time it's necessary to have these discussions the way that you're having them intelligently.

And to, and to, it's really important. but it happens to be the same time when the powers that be seem to have a new ability to basically like shut down people at will whenever they want to. Well, this isn't, again... Is that a coincidence? No, no, no, but hold on. But again, this is... You're not taking history into account.

No, but 500 years... I am. I am. Okay, but 500 years ago, the government had way more power to shut you down than it does now. They'd rip out your tongue physically. I get it. I get it. I get it. I get it. But you're saying that like either we're not going anywhere.

Are we getting somewhere like, you know, are we going? Are we just, are we just cyclically just doomed to basically become tribal people? Yes. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Then what is the point of having the First Amendment in the United States, for instance, okay? Why has this not happened yet? Okay. What I'm saying is we've gotten rid as an American. And I don't know, you know, I know you guys have. England is probably a dream in comparison to Russia. That said, I quite liked America. And America has been the sort of like, you know, for better or for worse, has been sort of like the sort of the big dad on the scene, the big guy on the scene that basically the whole world is sort of like, you know, been sort of captive to and then, you know,

basically, you know, they're basically molding itself to the values that we have. Yeah, we consume your culture. Yeah, yeah. And you guys, and you guys are, you know, doomed to sort of repeat it in a sense. And so, so, well, well, you know, there seems to be some sort of consensus at this moment that, like, that's on its way out, right? There seems to be, like, an understanding and an accepting of the idea that, like, the United States, they had their time and now it's time for them to take a sleep. and for some other, they can go into slip into number two, there's got to be another number one. And if this is just cyclical, it's what happens to all empires.

And that's... And I think that that's what is being willed into existence. And Trump definitely opposed that. Yeah. That's what I'm, yes. That makes all perfect sense to me. That's why. But when you start talking about they, when you start saying that this is all planned, that's where...

No, I don't say it's all planned. I'm saying that it's willed. What I'm saying is that like it's, it's kind of like the stay puff marshmallow man and Ghostbusters. You know what I'm saying? Like, try to think of something benign or don't think of anything. Clear your mind. And then all of a sudden, this giant state puff marshmallow man comes out

because the guy thought like the most harmless thing he could possibly think of and it's basically trampling over the whole entire town. So is your argument, just to clarify, that there is, that there are elites as like Al Gore, Bill Gates, these type of people, well, and we can all agree that they're elites. And they are willing that we move towards this different way of living with AI, where we're monitored, where we're silence, where we're controlled. They've been saying things as if they're basically inevitable things that are going to happen. That, you know, when you think about, like, you know,

when you think about these robodogs that they're going to, like, unleash you know, like to do certain things, when you think about digital currency, when you think about all these things that basically, like even just two years ago, you really didn't even actually hear about until two years ago. And they're just basically accelerating all this. And the people that kind of like bark at,

like, you know, the prospect of these things happening, they're called, you know, like kind of like conspiracy theorists at first. But then it's basically, it starts to like basically gain traction because people just basically get exposed to it more and they basically, knowing the psychology of people, this system basically knows exactly how to basically like just like, expose people to these things and make them extremely suggestible. So basically, everybody's, you know, nobody's really in control anymore. Basically, there's some other apparatus that is

stripping us of our own autonomy and in dragging us along, whether we like it or not, along this path. And I don't know what is responsible for that, but I don't like it. And I like I like autonomy. I like being able to decide my, what kind of music I make. I like to be able to like say what I say. You know, I like that,

that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, uh, that, uh, that nothing that I've ever said has been that controversial. It's just been just kind of like, just, just, just playing, playing around. Just fucking saying things. It's, the consequences, well, I've always been my butt. I mean, I basically, it's like, no, I've never heard anybody. Nothing I've said has ever made somebody do something crazy.

It's always just been like, oh, oh, Ariel really step in it this time. No, no, this love of freedom and autonomy and wanting to push back. I mean, as Francis was saying earlier, it's the job of artists, it's the job of people like you. I'm on board with all of that. I think that that's brilliant. I'm just wondering why, and the reason I'm discussing this with you is I think you're very articulate about it. And I hear this thread of thinking a lot online from people.

There's them and they are trying and they're willing and they're doing this. I'm us. What I'm saying is when I say them, I mean, I'm just... Well, no, you said Bill Gates and Al Gore. That's not us. No, but no, it's us. It's you and it's you as well. I mean, I wish I were Bill Gates.

I mean, the point is that like, I'm not, I'm not, I don't have the power to stop it from where it's going. Right. Yeah. What I'm saying is, it's all of us. We all, but, but the, we're. world has not been decided, is not, is not a foregone conclusion that, we shouldn't actually take, we should, we take it for granted. We think that basically these, these, these authorities know what they're, what's going to happen and know what they're talking about. And they talk

about things and we believe that they understand things more than we do. And I totally understand. You should meet some politicians. Believe me, they don't know what it was. But they act like, they sound like they do, and they talk like they do, and it's very scary because they probably do in some way. And maybe we're not appreciating it, because we're basically like writing them off and calling them, you know, kind of dumb. But like we're the ones that are the suckers. See, I'll tell you.

It's, to me, it's painfully obvious that, like, what is happening to our culture and everything is artificial. It's not like, it's not organic. It's, it's been, it's been, it's been, it's been, it's been, it's been, it's been, it's been, it's been, it's been, it's been, it's been, it's been a steady campaign of hatred against specific one person by, my, my, my, by the media. It sounds to me, you know what it feels like to me? It feels like somebody that's basically trying to cover up something. That's what it is. It sounds like somebody that's trying, that feels guilty. about what they did or not feel guilty, but basically is somebody protests a little bit too much. It feels to me like they're trying to desperately cover up something that they did, that they were afraid he's going to experience. May I offer just a counter explanation that I think is just easier to sell, right? Which is this. Donald Trump broke every moral code of the progressive left. How?

He's obnoxious. He says things you're not supposed to say. He's politically incorrect. He is brash. He is the embodiment of a form of masculinity, which you're not supposed to have in the modern world, right? Masculinity, bad, femininity, good, right? He challenged the point that you made, which is a very good point. He challenged the idea of managed decline.

This is something that Steve Bannon and Donald Trump both talked about a lot. He challenged the idea that America is supposed to, you know, take a nap or take a rest or whatever it was, you said, to go down. and he represented both politically in terms of policy but also dealing with the border. You're not supposed to talk about it, right? Just like in this country, you're not supposed to talk about. But why aren't you supposed to talk about that? Because to those people on the left,

these are subjects that are just out of the realms of the... They're globalists. Okay, that's fine. I totally agree. So they're not for countries. I agree. Okay, so then we should... Let me ask me this. why it's a presidential election for a country.

I'm not voting for the ruler of the world. I'm voting for the ruler of the president of the country. For four years. I get it. I'm just trying to explain why I think they would want to destroy someone like Donald Trump. Of course, because they've been brainwashed, because they don't believe in countries, because they don't believe in money,

because they don't believe in borders, because they want to destroy the, they don't believe in a country. Those people should not be eligible to be president, okay? I'm sorry. It's just people, they're against parents. They're against men being, you know, the nuclear family, okay? That's offensive to them.

Since when is that the case? Okay, there's nothing okay and don't, he's not offensive. If you listen to what he said, you'd realize that he's a lot more practical, sensible. I listen to a lot of what John John said. I always, I've always been very fair, but I'm trying to explain to you why people on that side of the political. I understand why, because their minds have been corrupted and they don't really have that much agency. They don't, and also they're younger, okay. Typically, Democrats are younger people because they don't have much to the, they don't own very much.

They got nothing to their name, so they, there's not, they want, they don't mind like living, you know, eating from sardine cans and living with 10 people. You know, they need each other, obviously. that they need to get their life together. But like when you own stuff, when you're like, basically when it comes down to it is, I mean, like, what are conservatives? Do you think they're just like, you know, like a rednecks with a with a chip on their shoulder

about different races? No, they just basically people that basically, conservatives in general are people that basically have grown to have a family and basically they have a house, they own a house. And taxes really make a big difference. Taxes make a really big difference at that point. When you own a house, when you have a family to feed,

it's not like when you lived on your own and you were making a killing, working at some agency or whatever, and you just didn't have any overhead, okay? It makes a huge difference. The taxes is like such an easy kind of like, you can understand why people that have like a little bit more money, need that, need, the taxes start to really, really impact

their ability to live when they have more expenses. And when you just, when you just ignore that fact, when you, when you have basically one party that's basically exploiting the, the, the sort of, the lack of, the lack of resolve, the lack, I mean, basically, it feels just very exploitative. I mean, I mean, because, because to me, the elites are, are, are, are Democrats largely by and large. At the moment. Yeah, at the moment. So it says it's ironic to me.

Hey, Francis. If you were a member of the public, would you like the opportunity to ask incredible guests like Bill Burr, Jordan Peterson, Sam Harris, Adam Carolla, Brett Weinstein, John Barnes, Douglas Murray, Nigel Farage and Lionel Shriver, your own questions? You bet I would.

And what do you think the best way to do that would be? Probably stalking mate. You'd have to corner them in the supermarket, probably run near like the sort of frozen food aisles, and then just bark questions at them before they can escape. Not the American ones, as they have guns. And you'd have to be extra careful with the females, as that's how I got in trouble last time.

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Trigonometry.com. See you there, guys. I'm listening to you talk and your passion, Ariel, and look, I get it. Do you think part of it is the fact that you live in Los Angeles, where you are at the very, almost very epicenter of this ideology? You're 45 years old. You were there before and you suddenly saw it creep in. And not only did you see it creep in in one of the, you know, in one of the wokenest places in the world, you're working in one of the wokeest industries. And you see more and more of your friends, adopt this ideology. Well, it never was that. It wasn't that. It wasn't woke. I mean, there's only...

Oh, sorry, like the progressivism or the ideology that you're talking about. I'm... Do you see, and you're more sensitive to it because you're quite literally at the center of it, plus you've also described yourself as a contrarian. Do you see what I mean? I'm the most liberal person that you've ever met. I was born and raised in LA. My values are...

I've met one... I don't think I've met one conservative in my entire life, okay? Like, I mean, like that... that I am like is like the people that I was raised around or my friends, we have the same values. I mean, I mean, I'm more liberal than anybody that has canceled me, okay? I mean, I know that for a fact.

I mean, I'm a rock star. I was raised in LA. I don't know anything else, whether I wanted to actually, if I wanted to be, if I wanted to be a, you know, a Puritan or if I wanted to be anything that's associated with the, With the right, I probably wouldn't know where to start, but I'm just, I'm as West Coast liberal L.A. as you can imagine. And it is my home. It was where I was born and raised. I don't know. I didn't come there from another small town to make it or anything like that. I'm a country bumpkin. That's all I know. And I've never lived anywhere else. My family's there.

So I never left. I embody the liberal ideal, which up until five minutes ago was the liberal ideal. Now it is a woke police state that I'm basically shunned from and that they, that does not embody any of the virtues that that it, that only five minutes ago it was touting. Well, it was completely illiberal. That's why we oppose it, because it's illiberal.

So when you say, is that because I'm in L.A.? I don't think it matters that I'm in L.A. Because the fact that I'm from L.A. is what did me in. And it's not coming from L.A. No, no, no. Francis's point is you saw the biggest transformation, right? You were living in a place where the culture changed so quickly. Not just L.A.

so badly. Silicon Valley. Of course. So what I'm saying is in California. California witnessed the entire transformation of that state, the United States, and of course through big tech, which comes from Silicon Valley, those values leak out onto the rest of the world. Those values were like sort of like whatever it happened in L.A.

Sort of like this, there's a feeling that it would happen everywhere else in the world 10 years from there. Yes, exactly. And so it seems like it's on the forefront of things. And so maybe there is something about that to me that is a little bit like kind of like a, uh, uh, uh, wants to sort of like, you know, ring the bell and be like, hey, wait, wait, wait, look, this is where it's going, guys, maybe we got to turn back right now. Yeah, sure.

That's what that's, yeah. But I guess the reason we're having this entire discussion is basically this, that I think, you think, because this transformation has been so dramatic and so rapid and so unnatural and so counter to your values, you're going, well, this must be somehow, you said manipulated or these people are involved. Yeah, I think it's artificial. Artificial is the word, right? And I think an equally credible and probably certainly to me much more credible thing is we've had a gigantic technological transformation just like the invention of the printing press.

Hold on. That allows for a different type of communication which is more suited to certain ideas than others because this is the problem with social media. Social media naturally rewards certain types of ideas over others. And the ideas that are rewards ideas that may sound good but are impractical. So, for example, you go on Twitter and you say, there is no difference between men and women. On Twitter, that works. It works on Twitter because it's not real life. You can say there's no difference between men and women, and there'll be a shit ton of people who agree with it because they like that idea, even though it's completely untrue, right?

So you have a technological transformation that leads to the propagation of certain ideas, and that does not necessarily have to be the product of a conspiratorial... Do you think that it's market demands? I think that, as I say, I think it is a technological shift that changes the way we consume information. Like you are a different person on Twitter than you are in real life. So am I. So is Francis. So is everybody else.

Why is that? Because the technology channels us into behaving in particular ways. It's like when you're driving your car and someone cuts you up, because you're behind the windscreen, because there's that distance, you behave in ways that you wouldn't behave if you were face-to-face. It's a different medium. altogether. It's not real life. It's what I'm like on paper, you know, or like when you read about it.

Exactly. It doesn't, it's a completely, it's a different thing. Exactly. It's like a piece of, but that's, but that's, that's the same. Listening to my music is, is not me. You're going to get a different, what I'm saying is, these are different realities, but what I'm saying is, I think you get, what I'm trying to say is, that might be true, but I think you're giving,

you think that like cancellation and these kinds of things are driven by people's opinion, and I'm trying to tell you that I don't believe that the people's opinions are actually the driving force of any of these campaigns that basically have. It's tribal. No, they're actually, they are convincing themselves.

They're the recipients. Somebody gets canceled for whatever, for such and such reason. The people that basically see the person get canceled need to feel that they basically have an opinion about the person being cancelled, so they basically want to think that they had a hand in canceling them, when in fact it's the other way around. They got canceled by some mechanism

that is beyond anybody's awareness or control. They don't understand what it is. They're not canceling. They want to think of themselves. We want to think of ourselves as sort of having a say in this thing, but there's some other mechanism that's basically giving us our thoughts and our opinions,

and we are basically rationalizing it because we think that we have a say in this. We don't have a say in this world. But isn't that dull as of what happened to you? You said yourself, you went to this rally. People conflated you going to a rally and being part of the riot, right? And then your label got a shit ton of pushback from people. And you got a shit ton of pushback.

And that's why they dropped. What happened was that there was articles that went out. Right. Without any confirmation, without any corroboration, without any reason, without any eye witness. Because they were looking for a scapego, right? Well, I mean, if they do that, they usually get into lawsuits. Okay. What I'm saying is that like there's no ethical journalism.

What they do is they basically are, they're a, there's a, there's a board. It's got hit, they can hit people whoever they want. They basically turn their attention to this person. We don't care about the ethics or the consequences of doing this stuff. Arrel, this is what I don't get, like you say there's a board, right? That means there's a room in which there's a board and then there's people who are going, let's pick on this person now. You think that's what happens.

Well, why didn't they correct it? No, no. Just you think there's a room with a board where people pick out a name and go, let's go after this guy. I think what there is is there's a wide scale, a wide scale,

sort of like, we cannot let him win. So we have to, there's a, I believe that there was a, an actual, it seems very weird to me that I was the only person in Hollywood that was outwardly pro-Trump, okay? Every single magazine, every single institution,

unless they were already like, way right wing as far as they were concerned, you know? That, you know, like that's, these people are like hopeless, okay? Owen, a news, whatever, whatever the other, whatever the other epoch, you know, whatever, whatever it is. those things are already like right wing and slanted as that but then there's like everything else

in New York Times there's like every single other I mean every single magazine and every single publication that could not ever if you were if you could not be pro make an argument you couldn't you could not but doesn't mean there's a room with a board in it where people pick out there I believe that there was an actually there was a behind the scenes

there was actually an agreement behind the elitist the moneyed interests that basically a roundtable that said we will not allow any kind of positive speaking of Donald Trump

allowed in our institutions in our magazines or in anything that's, there's like a like a, like a, the moratorium basically that was just like basically like you cannot do that and it was unspoken. They didn't announce that. A room in the board is not unspoken.

No, what I'm going to What I'm saying is that there was nobody that basically pushed back against that. No, I agree with you. So why is that? But that's group think. That's group think. No, it's not. No, it is.

It happens in comedy. Group think happens all the time. Hold on, hold on. It happens in comedy. In comedy, there's a certain way of thinking. But no one sits down in a room with a board and goes, let's go after trigonometry. Let's go after these people. I get it.

Okay. So, listen. So, so in light of the group think, there's people, thank God, there's people like me that are basically there to throw a turn into the punch bowl. Okay. Sure. As long as they're allowed to do that. Sure. But I'm not allowed to do that.

You are here. No, I'm in another country. I'm a man with, I'm telling you, it's not allowed in my country. And you, you don't have pre-s. Come and live in L.A., man. I'm telling you, you guys, do not. You got, the whole world is free speech now, okay? You guys have to say, you took that from us.

We basically, I, everybody stands for that. they appreciate that. You don't understand what happens when the first world, when the United States loses that thing and when they cancel people because of it, okay, they would cancel people because of what they believe in, okay, when they cannot say, when they cannot vote for a president,

if I had known that it was illegal to vote for Donald Trump, I probably wouldn't have voted for him. But the understanding was there. I basically, I was that I was not allowed to do that. We are sympathetic to you. That's why we're having this conversation. I know, I know, but what I'm saying is... Let's just focus on the part of what you're saying

that I'm very hopefully, respectfully and gently trying to challenge, which is the idea that... And the reason that I am having this discussion with you... I understand what you're saying, this is something that a lot of people say, and I think it's important for people who like each other as we do and who are interested in each other's point of view to have this part of the conversation.

The fact that there's group think and the fact that there's conformity of views, I find as abhorrent as you do. The fact that somebody cannot vote for one of the two presidential candidates without having their life ruined is abhorrent to me. And what happened to you is atrocious, right? It should never have happened that way. The way you were treated was awful.

That does not mean that there's, I'm using your words now, a round table. It does not mean that there's a room with a board on it where they pick out who to go after. It just means, in my opinion, that there are people who have a certain worldview. and I know many of these people, right? And they're not nearly as competent or capable as you'd like to think, believe me, right? And they just have a view that there is the right way to see this

and they act accordingly. So, for example, I have a friend who works at one of the major publications in this country, who I know from before I started trigonometry and him and I disagree very frequently. In 2016, when the Hunter Biden laptop story was published, I was tweeting saying,

this is really important. This is a big story. And the cover-up is bigger than the actual story. The fact that the big tech suppressed it is the bigger. And he got really angry with me because he just wanted his guy to win, right? And that is how these people think. That does not mean there's a room with a board with a round table.

There's some kind of cabal. There's some kind of thing. I just don't think that's the way that it happens. But they have also, like, admitted all that stuff, though, too. What? They've admitted what? Oh, you know, I mean, there's that article about, like, you know, like, how, how, how there's that, you know, the secret story on, on how the, how the Democrats, like, you know,

banded up with, uh, with, uh, these, uh, these different groups, you know, like, and they, to, to, to, to, to, to collaborate to basically. Yeah, I read that article. Yeah, yeah, right. So, so there's, so. But they didn't admit that they sit, sat down in a room. Of course, these people talk to each other. We talked to each other.

We had dinner last. I'm saying. I'm saying. I'm, all I'm saying is that, like, there was an agreement. That's all. I'm not saying that there's anything more nefarious than that. You said there was a board in a room and you said there was a round table. There was a there was a Zoom call.

Okay. I mean, what I'm saying, I don't know what you're getting at. What I'm saying is there was an obvious, there was like, it wasn't just, it goes beyond,

it goes beyond, you know, determination to win an election, okay. I mean, I can give them, I can give them props for like, you know,

going far and above and doing what was necessary in order to win, okay? I appreciate it. Sorry, Francis, you go ahead, man. Yeah, no, are we, I'm finishing. No, no, no, no, no, no, it's not. When I talk, I've got a lot of empathy for the way, for what, for what you talk about, Ariel, because I see, I'll be honest with you, mate, I see a lot of myself in you.

I used to think that I was the most liberal guy and, you know, in the old-fashioned sense, you say what you feel, you lived a lot. I'm not liberal anymore. Yeah, no, but you are, you are. No, but we've, but we've, you are. No, but we've. change words. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Do you think a lot of the strength that you're feeling is because you lament in America that no longer exists? Yeah, and I lament a career that no longer exists as well. I lament, I mean, I've always been about, I'm not progressive at all. I mean, I'm like, you know, I'm like the future is worse than the past. I'm like the, you know, all the best stuff already happened. It's hopeless, basically. And you've got to love it while it's, you've got to love it while it's here.

The moment is the youngest you'll ever be. It's not going to be better. You got to appreciate what you have and hold on to it and hold on to what you love the most. That's what I believe in. I don't believe in progressive causes or anything like that. I think the whole world, I mean, we grow up and then we die. There's the human arc of experiences of very, tragic thing. And so I believe that hope might be a hyper vigilance in terms of like, you know,

things going in a certain way is pretty, pretty naive. I think that like there's probably things are just going to get worse. But we probably won't know the difference. We'll be happy slaves and all that kind of stuff. But I'm here to basically, to say, let's do the impossible and turn back. That's what I think is necessary. I don't, I don't think we should make a virtue out of change or any of those things. I think that the change is inevitable. It's like it's not your friend. That doesn't mean you should worship it.

I think the human spirit is a lot more the fact that we can stand up straight while the winds of change try to blow us and tear at us. But we stand, our spirit stands firm and straight and does the impossible, you know, against the sands of time, against the winds of change and all that kind of stuff. I think that that's what's amazing about humans. And I don't think it's about us being in pods consuming shit. And history is littered with people that have individuals that have done things

that basically have changed the way that we think and that those things are great. I don't think that that's, I think that like we've done a lot of good. despite the bad tidings. I think that like, you know, I think that history is like a, is weird. Like, I think that there's been a lot of bad in a sort of a catalog of massacres and terrible things, but I think that we can get to a place where we aren't like that.

And I kind of think that, you know, we should stop all our head. Yeah. And because what you're talking about is you worry where we're heading, but there's still hope there, Ariel. Their hope is getting extinguished by the day, but yeah. It's pretty much gone now, and I hate to say it. I mean, I'll take whatever life gives me. I'll go wherever I'm wanted, if that's China or Russia, so will be it. I mean, I will go.

I'm sure I'm not going to be, I'm going to be okay, and all that kind of stuff. I'll be welcome here. So I'll go wherever I'm wanted, but I don't. I didn't think it would happen in my lifetime. As in what would happen in your lifetime? Oh, that I would become, you know, seen as some sort of, some sort of danger or harm that I did something wrong. And, you know, you can just like punish me and not say anything, not, not be, you know,

I mean, it's like, whatever. I mean, nobody's at fault for whatever happened to me. It's just, it's just, I'm collateral damage on basically like just like a mistake, okay? and like I get it. But there's no recourse for me. And it's not like I've rather almost be found guilty of something, do my time, and then get out of jail, you know, after a certain mind. This indefinite kind of like, you know, there's no, I mean, I don't know if I could get a job at Starbucks.

Okay. Like that, like that. They don't let me in certain venues in L.A. You know, I can't go to concerts. I can't go to restaurants. This is my hometown. And there's no explanation. I mean, is that legal?

Is that legal? I mean, should I, should I, no, it's not that it's not that it's not legal. That's what the people think. So, yeah, what are you going to do, Ariel? They don't feel safe with you there. Yeah. Okay. So that's, I think it's, I think it's pathetic.

It is. It's a pathetic thing to support. I think it's a step, it's, it's once, it's pretty much the end. And not pretty much, yeah, the end of, it's the old world. And now it's the beginning of the new world. I guess I'm in that limbo state where it's like semi-denial, semi-morning grief, you know, like I don't know what it's going to come, but I didn't think that it was that. I didn't think it was the end.

Well, not happy knock. Arrow, listen, man, it's been really great to discuss this with all. Thank you. I hope you know that, you know, how much I certainly empathize with what's happened with you. And I really like your, particularly when you talk about cancer culture, I think you're making a very valid point. Like this thing you just said about, I'd rather go to jail and do my time and come out and be clean,

is really gets to the core of some of the issues that we have with this whole thing, which is like it's extrajudicial punishment. It's outside of the legal system. It's meant to get around it. And the consequences are not exactly clear and no one knows, you know, when do you come back and how do you come back and do you ever get to go to, you know, your favorite restaurant or make music and get it out. But maybe it's because I'm a bit more of an optimist than you. I think this will change. I hope you're right.

I think, and I also think that, you know, there's a reason that you had the successful music career that you had, which is your very talented musician. No, and there's a reason why this happened to me and it's like a this is a it's a cocoon and I'm going through metamorphosis. Yes. I will blossom into something else.

Yes, you will. That's exactly what I was going to. That's absolutely and I'm and I'm still to be somebody at my age knowing that that can happen still is actually a very thing to be hopeful for. I just had a kid and I'm extremely,

to know that if you're still filming? Yes. to know that um to know that uh that uh that that that i that that i that i that i'm experiencing the the biggest happiness the you know this the like i mean this is like this is like this is what it's about this this um to experience uh the happiness that i feel at the same time while this is all happening you know but but to have a daughter and it's like uh i never thought that that would uh happen at my age so yeah yeah it's a blessed man I've got a son first one as well that's similar to your daughter six months six months

it's incredible it's absolutely incredible which is one of the reason and it's also made me a more positive person as well because I now feel a responsibility to actually fight for the world that I want my children to grow up in and that's what I wanted to say is I think this metamorphosis that you're going through you're going to come out of the other end you'll see the world with a different vision and you'll be able to create more of the brilliant work that you've been doing to this point. So I hope so. I wish you all the best, man, and I really appreciate your time. Thank you.

So if people want to find you online, Ariel, where's the best way to do that? Right now, yeah, you can go to my substack. I've got a substack. It's called, you can just go aerial, arylpink. Dot substack.com. And you put your music out on there. I'm using it as a repository for all sorts of unofficial. recordings and stuff like that. So it's

just basically a huge dump that I'm putting on everybody, you know, and it's lots of people have always been you know, lots of, it's for diehard fans as well. But it's also for me to sort of like just

just to put things out that I never have and to just sort of just to sort of give back and shut people up to, you know, about, you know, what I'm doing and stuff like that. They feel like I'm, you know, just lingering and feeling sorry for myself, I don't. It's not how I'm always making music. It's just nobody's going to hear it. No. People will hear it. Substack and hear the music. Yes, and tell people as well.

Ariel's a brilliant music. Paid subscription if you are so kind, but you don't have to have one necessarily to hear lots of stuff. So, all right. Well, we've got one final question for you, and then we'll ask you a couple of questions from our supporters that only they will get to see on locals. Oh, great. So the final question is always, what's the one thing we're not talking about, but we really should be. Okay, let me think about it. I should have thought about this before. Let me think that there's

the one thing that we should be talking about that we should be. God, man. That where is my mind? I don't know. That's a good thing to talk about. Listen, man, we did a long interview, so it doesn't matter too much.

Do you mind if we do the audience questions? Of course, course, we're going to be. What we're going to need to do is to sign off to the camera. Oh, shit, yeah. Okay. Ariel, thanks so much for coming on, and thank you guys for watching and listening. We will be back with another brilliant interview, probably not quite like this one, but brilliant nonetheless. At Aurora Show, all of them go out at 7pm UK time.

And for those of you who like your trigonometry on the go, it's always available as a podcast. So take care and see you soon, guys. Has your experience with ostracism made you think less of American society? Did it prompt you to consider moving to Israel or Japan, for example?