TRIGGERnometry - "Black People Don't Need Saving" - Adam B. Coleman

Episode Date: November 17, 2022

SPONSORED by Ridge Wallet. Use Code “TRIGGER” for 10% off your order at: https://www.ridge.com/TRIGGER SPONSORED by BetterHelp - online counselling and therapy - get 10% off your first month using our link https://BetterHelp.com/TRIGGER Adam B. Coleman is the author of 'Black Victim To Black Victor' and has written for many publications including The New York Post, The Daily Mail and Newsweek. Join our exclusive TRIGGERnometry community on Locals! https://triggernometry.locals.com/ OR Support TRIGGERnometry Here: https://www.subscribestar.com/triggernometry https://www.patreon.com/triggerpod Bitcoin: bc1qm6vvhduc6s3rvy8u76sllmrfpynfv94qw8p8d5 Music by: Xentric | [e-mail] | https://www.xentricapc.com/ | Channel ID: UCo_8zzSxKeL3arKWVuP8wdQ Buy Merch Here: https://www.triggerpod.co.uk/shop/ Advertise on TRIGGERnometry: [e-mail] Join the Mailing List: https://www.triggerpod.co.uk/sign-up/ Find TRIGGERnometry on Social Media:  https://twitter.com/triggerpod​​​/ https://www.facebook.com/triggerpod/ https://www.instagram.com/triggerpod/ About TRIGGERnometry:  Stand-up comedians Konstantin Kisin (@konstantinkisin) and Francis Foster (@francisjfoster) make sense of politics, economics, free speech, AI, drug policy and WW3 with the help of presidential advisors, renowned economists, award-winning journalists, controversial writers, leading scientists and notorious comedians. 00:00 Intro  10:03 Glorifying Absent Fathers  19:59 Is the Identity Crisis Caused by Broken Homes? 24:48 George Floyd & White Supremacy 32:45 Are Activists the Solution or a Problem? 43:36 Issues with Modern Feminism  47:55 Will Positive Changes Occur in the Younger Generation? 57:48 The Mixed-Race Experience  1:01:18 What’s the One Thing We’re Not Talking About? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The narrative went from this was a incident that is unfortunate. And maybe we need to look at police reform to the narrative of black men are constantly in fear. We're always in danger. And that racism is the number one issue affecting us. How did we get to this point in just a matter of days? To me, it felt like a panic attack. To me, it just removed our individuality. And we just became this collective that was just weak and feeble.

For men, we are stronger. We are deadlier. I mean, it's the truth to say that we can inflict pain much easier. And we are dangerous to society if we're not under control. And the job of the father is to control the energy of the boy. I think gangs are a result of lost boys. And then they grow up to become lost men. And I think one of the things that a lot of people don't understand,

especially women don't understand about men, is that we're purpose driven. So I think purpose is extremely. important for kids and I think if you're talking about like gang violence in particular that's that's one of those areas that you see what happens when you don't give young men purpose if I label someone as a white supremacist then what then what you know they they did it to themselves they cried wolf too many times so I'm I'm one of those people who actually doesn't want to fight the

language I'm gonna use the language I'm just gonna redefine it if the leftists get to redefine words if they get to redefine racism redefine blackness and whiteness and all these different things, then screw it. I'm going to redefine it too and use it to my advantage just like them. Are you tired of using bulky old wallets giving you a bulge where you don't want it to be? My old wallet was massive, so it brought all the ladies to the yard, which was a huge distraction and got in the way of my esteemed work on trigonometry. Ridge wallets have an incredible solution for you.

This is mine, sleek, stylish and with an industrial look to it. He can fit 12 cards with cash on the back using a clip like this one or a strap. We've got one for the whole team. I've got one. Francis has one. Even our producer Anton has one, but he's from Liverpool, so he flogged his on the black market. The great thing about Ridge is that they give you a lifetime guarantee, which means if you want, you can have only one wallet for the rest of your life. Ridge are so confident in the quality of their product, they will give you 45 days to test drive their wallets.

That means you can get the wallet, use it, and if you don't like it, you can return it within 45 days. Because Ridge are such great guys, they're going to give you 10% off and free worldwide shipping and returns. To take advantage of this incredible offer, go to ridge.com forward slash trigger. That's ridge.com forward slash trigger and use our special code, which is, of course, trigger. Hello and welcome to Triggernometry on location, whilst our brand new studio is being built. I'm Francis Foster. I'm Constantine Kishin. And this is a show for you, if you want honest conversations,

with fascinating people. Our brilliant guest today is a writer and the author of Black Victim to Black Victor. Adam Coleman, welcome to Trigonometry. Thank you for having me. Listen, thank you for having us in your Airbnb here in London. We were supposed to have you in the studio,

but life got in the way. But we're really excited to have you on the show. Tell everybody before we get into it, who are you, how are you where you are, What has been the journey through life that leads you to be sitting here talking to us? So many journeys. I would say that I generally say I'm a typical American. I was working a regular IT job, but kind of got involved in the cultural war,

just watching you guys, watching other podcasts and just learning. And there became a moment where I felt like my voice, someone who was actually saying things that I wanted to be heard, wasn't actually saying it. especially after the death of George Floyd. The narrative went from this was a incident that is unfortunate, and maybe we need to look at police reform to the narrative of black men are constantly in fear,

we're always in danger, and that racism is the number one issue affecting us. And I thought that narrative was insulting. I thought that narrative was incomplete and not true whatsoever. The number one issue facing black Americans is, family. We have a dysfunctional family issue as far as separation goes. And I wanted the opportunity to talk about it and write about it, but write about it in a way that is of substance. You know, there are people who I generally agree with, maybe even conservatives who talk about family

values and the importance of fathers and men, but I always felt like it was incomplete. They said it like it was something that people were just supposed to know, rather than explaining so people fully understand the ramifications of not having both parents within the home. So I wrote my book to actually tell my personal story and also examine and analyze a whole bunch of different areas of what we would consider black culture. But I'm very open about my childhood and how it affected me. And I think it sticks out for people who read it because most of the time people don't talk about this thing. They pretend that everything was fine. You know, they made it through. I'm alive. And everything is fine after that, but I wanted to paint a realistic picture that my life was tumultuous because my father wasn't there.

We were homeless multiple times. I remember a woman who came to my mother and said, you can stay with me in my trailer. I have one room. And so myself, my mom, my sister stayed in one room for at least a month or so before my mom got back on her feet. But I remember bouncing in out of hotels, you know, just to have some place to sleep. Meanwhile, going to school and my mom's working. So, you know, having one income earner within the home can put you in that risk of going in and out of homelessness and in fighting for survival. But I just couldn't stand the narrative of single parenthood as being this wonderful achievement.

And no matter what you do, everything is fine. And we're incapable of saying that, hey, maybe this isn't the best idea for your children. And we've put so much on female empowerment that we ignore the kids. And one of the interesting things about your story as well is you became a dad at quite young age yourself. And so here you are 21 years old. You haven't had a dad, or as you talk about even a male role model your entire life. And then suddenly you're supposed to teach this new creature how to be a man. Right.

How do you do that? Well, the first thing I told myself is that I wasn't going to be my father. I remember specifically holding my son thinking that. So it's a pretty low bar because my father wasn't there. So you just got to be there. That's got to be there. That was basically the starting point. So, you know, I always just tried to be the father that I thought I wanted for myself.

So I have a lot of communication with my son. You know, I talk about spanking. But from an aspect of why was I spanking? Do I really need to spank my son? And he was pretty young when I decided, like, I don't want to do this anymore. And I realized I was repeating behavior that I learned from when I was a kid. Because my mom, you know, she's managing this boy. And all she knows is physicality to keep him in line when she didn't actually have to do that.

And my son and I are very much similar. We're both sensitive. We're both very, I don't want to say, like intellectual, but like introspective. And so you don't need to hit me. You can explain to me what I did wrong and I won't do it again. So basically since I said, I'm not going to spank him. I just stop spanking him. And he's 17 years old now.

And we have a great relationship because we talk and we communicate. So, you know, it's those different things that I just tried to figure out what works and what feels natural. And much of what I talk about is what feels natural for men. What feels natural for me as a man? And once I started going towards what felt natural, everything kind of just fell into place. But as far as becoming a man for myself, I've said I've probably been a man for about five years, and I'm 38. And it's because it's this long, arduous journey because I'm starting from ground zero as an adult.

And figuring out that maybe I need to constantly improve because I'm failing over and over and over. I'm failing in relationships with women. I feel like I'm not being the best father. Even though someone might say, you're doing a great job, I don't feel like I am doing the best job. So it's just constantly reexamining my life and wanting to constantly improve to become the person I am today.

And what does it mean to, Adam, to be a man? Ha. I would say confidence. Confidence is number one. being very sure of yourself, protecting people, especially people you care about, people you love, protect your children. That's why I talk so much about the need to, you know, fight against mutilating children because our job as men is to stick up for our kids and not allow perverts to come in

and tell you to, you know, chop up your kids because they feel off. You know, we need to protect our families. We need to protect our children in our society. But as far as being a man, I mean, those are just a few things that are highly important. And we were talking about single mothers. And as a teacher, I saw the effect that not having a father in the home had on young boys. Why is it, do you think, that we just keep perpetuating this myth? We're unwilling to criticize women.

I mean, I think it's as simple as that. When you have one sex that is infallible, then nothing ever changes. You can only have change when you can recognize mistakes. But if they don't make mistakes, we can't change. And everything that they do is perfect. You know what? It's weird, because I agree with you that, yes, there is a taboo about making criticisms of female behavior. But I also think that single parenthood is quite often, as it was in your case.

Well, look, I don't know. Maybe it wasn't, but quite often the fault of the man, actually. And it's the man that wasn't there and the man that... Now, look, you might say the woman, you know, behaved in certain ways that made sure he wasn't there. But often it isn't. Often it's just a man who can get away with having kids with multiple women. So is it really a case of it's like the women's fault that they're single mothers or... Or is that...

Maybe that's not even what you were saying. So that's actually a great point to bring up. And I'll use... I don't think I'm talking too much out of turn, but I'll use my mom as an example. Not too long ago. I asked my mom, did you ever want to get married? She said, no. I always wanted two kids.

And so for me, that tells me that she wasn't marriage-minded. She just wanted children. And some people might say, that's fine, that's her prerogative. But is that the best scenario to raise children in? And we know statistic after statistic, that's not the best way to raise children. But that is what she wanted. And my father was married, just not to her. my father was always married.

And so she picked a man who was unavailable to have two children with. And so, you know, this is not to be harsh with my mother. I love my mother. But the reality is that she didn't make the best decision. And my father wasn't there because he was never going to be there. He was a married man who had his own life. And I believe he had children as well. He was never going to be involved in my life other than paying child support through the state.

So as much, I hear what you're saying. And we're very quick to say, did be dads, there's a lot of questions we had about women who specifically do not want to get married, and that's becoming more and more prevalent. They're finding ways to freeze their eggs, they're finding ways to find some sort of way that they can have children, but they're not asking to have families. And that's different. I agree with you on that. That's a very good point. Yeah, and because we don't talk about enough the effect that not having a dad has on kids. So what do you think the effect is of fatherlessness in homes?

Oh, man. Boundaries. You know, there's the boundary aspect as far as understanding. I'll use boys as an example since I was a boy. You know, boys are, they're like high energy. They're like a high energy mass. And you need to teach them how to control their energy. Otherwise, they can hurt people. Right?

There's a reason why Rough and Tumble plays so important for boys, especially, is because you teach them boundaries when they go too far. You also teach them how to control their emotions. Someone who's ready to assault you just like that is someone who doesn't know the boundaries, who doesn't know how to control their emotions. And so that is why you see violent offenders typically come from single-parent homes. They usually lack a male authority figure to teach them how to control that energy. It's different for girls. But for men, we are stronger. We are deadlier.

I mean, it's the truth to say that we can inflict pain much easier. And we are dangerous to society if we're not under control. And the job of the father is to control the energy of the boy. So for me, you know, thankfully, I think more genetically, I'm just a calm kid. I was always a good calm kid. But the other side of that is that I was very vulnerable. And when I was about five, we moved out of Detroit where I was born, and we moved to suburbs, and we moved to actually four states before I was 18.

But I always asked, what if we stayed in Detroit? I know the state of Detroit public school system, right? And Detroit hasn't changed much since the 80s when I was born. So what if I had stayed there? What would have my life been? What would I've been surrounded by? Would I have been a statistic? Would I have been dragged into these different things?

Because I know me and I was vulnerable. People could have led me into different directions. And I didn't have a male authority figure to say, you need to leave these people alone. And some might say, well, your mother can tell you that, but it's different coming from a man. Yeah. Yeah.

And when we talk about, in particular, black boys and their vulnerability and also as well, the fact that they're more likely to be murdered, they're more likely to be murdered by other black boys. Do you attribute that to fatherlessness and a lot of black boys growing up in a home without a father? I think gangs are a result of lost boys, and then they grow up to become lost men.

Gangs are some sort of group association with male activity. It's just flawed male activity. And I think one of the things that a lot of people don't understand, especially women don't understand about men, is that we're purpose-driven, right? If someone said, your job is to take this hammer and nail things, you've been given purpose. It doesn't matter that it's a simple activity, you've been given purpose,

and so now you feel useful in society. But what if no one gives you purpose, right? You're kind of empty, and so you're just searching for something. That's why gangs are attractive to lost kids who were never given purpose, never shown how to excel in particular areas. they feel useless. They say, what's the point? That's why you see kids who just kind of act out in class because they're like, what's the point of paying attention? I have no purpose in this particular environment. I might as well go out there and do whatever. So I think purpose is extremely important for kids.

And I think if you're talking about gang violence in particular, that's one of those areas that you see what happens when you don't give young men purpose. And do you think the problem is as well as role models? They don't see, you know, they look at, at the role models and who are the role models that they're going to be aspiring to it, somebody maybe in sports or entertainment, but the reality is very few people make it in that arena. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And honestly, for young men, your role models should be your father, right? Should be a healthy father figure. And that's what, that's how I see like everything to the prism of family. I see the very start for men is your father. It's supposed to be your father, and he's supposed to be who you're mimicking. And he's, you're supposed to reflect with

puts out and become something productive within the society. But if that's not there, then like you said, where do you get it from? And a lot of people get it from local. If you're in a negative area, someone who's local to you, whether it's negative or positive, you're just searching for some sort of purpose, something to mimic. And if you see that something works or appears to work, then you're just going to go in that direction. But I think as far as role models go, it needs to be fathers.

And I think we've honed in too much on the role model aspect of just saying any man will do. Right? And actually, that's part of the problem with a lot of women who do end up in single parent situations. They say, well, I need to get a stepfather because any man will do. Right. And it's not the same. And they don't understand that on top of opening up all different types of vulnerabilities to kids. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp.

Do you want better mental health? I'm from Russia, we don't have mental health. So how do you deal with mental health? You drink vodka, then go out and wrestle bear. If you live, you feel better. If you die, you're not real men. What about the bear's feelings? It's Russian bear, it has no feelings.

People don't always realize that physical symptoms like headaches, teeth grinding, and even digestive issues can be indicators of stress. And let's not forget about doom scrolling, Not sleeping enough, sleeping too much, under-eating and overeating. Sleeping too much, under-eating. This is Western disease. Therapy has really helped me in my life to concentrate and focus. It's really important to have someone impartial who you can talk to

about the tricky issues that you're struggling to deal with. Therapy has played a really important role in helping me to deal with my ADHD and become better in all areas of my life. Why is he telling them how weak he is? Drink vodka, feel better. BetterHelp is customise online therapy that offers video, phone and even live chat sessions with your therapist. So you don't have to see anyone on camera if you don't want to.

Trigonometry funds get 10% of their first month at BetterHelp.com forward slash trigger, especially if they're not real men. That's B-E-T-T-E-R-H-E-L-P.com dot com slash trigger it's an interesting set of interesting points that you make i think as a new father myself that's one of the things that i'm thinking about all the time is like oh wow like someone looking to me now i've got to be the you were talking about this earlier you've got to be the best version of you because you are now a role model to other people so you've got to get your own emotions under control you've got to you know you've got to be conscious about how you are in the world right um but moving

On slightly onto the sort of broader political stuff that you touched on earlier, we interviewed a woman called Mary Eberstadt a while ago who wrote a book called Primal Screams, how the sexual revolution created identity politics. And her central argument is essentially this, that if you have generation upon generation of children grown up in broken homes, essentially, you know, if you use that term, of course they're looking for some kind of group to belong to. Of course they want to go, oh, I'm black, therefore other black, you know, all of that. Do you see that as a contributing factor to this identity politics stuff that we now see in society?

Yeah. You know, I noticed that the people who, for example, I notice, I notice people who grow up in two-parent homes, happy two-haired homes, and how they're not so much in love with, you know, the pigmentation of their skin. They're in love with being, whether they're a Christian, being a mother, a father. They have so many other things identity-wise that are more important than the color of their skin. And I see the opposite. I see people who grow up in dysfunction who are looking for some sort of group association, group identity. I even went through a phase of that where I'm searching for who am I, you know,

and I got into a little bit of the, I would identify as like a neo-Marxist kind of stuff, listen to those speakers. Who were you listening to? Like, for example, like Tim Wise, for example. And I was like, oh, he's this guy's kind of interesting. I don't know him. What's his message? Oh, you know, white supremacy.

I mean, yeah. And he actually happens to be white, but him among other... A lot of them do. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's true. But, you know, just listen to other speakers and stuff like that. I remember hearing the new age term for racism, power post privilege. Right, right.

You know, and I remember hearing all these different things. And then I started believing it a little bit. And then I looked around me, I was like, but that doesn't match my reality. And that's why I kind of moved away from it. Wait, Adam, sorry, I know I keep in trouble, but I'm just really curious about this part of it. how does someone who is listening to these kind of narratives look around and see that it's not, what did you see that wasn't congruent with that worldview?

Well, if I'm perfectly blunt, my son is mixed. My son's half white. I've been a relationship with women who are white. My wife currently is black. You know, I've grown up in neighborhoods where I'm the minority. I've grown up in neighborhoods where I'm of mixed other kids. So my reality has been, Like, people are people.

And so this idea that there's like this legacy of white people who are just passing on generation and generation to hate black people. I'm not seeing it to the level that these people are talking about. And I think one of the things that I didn't like is that they're preaching animosity. Like, they want me to feel resentful of, not of this person's issue, but of their grandparents. And theoretically, their grandparents, because maybe it wasn't their grandparents, all, I know their grandparents were in Italy. And now I'm supposed to hate you because of someone from, you know, to me, it just didn't make any sense to live my life in such a resentful, angry kind of way.

And I'm troubled by people who are preaching that. They're preaching, don't forgive, right? Don't forgive these people who had absolutely nothing to do with what you're doing, who are laying all types of excuses for someone's personal failures. It reminds me of a conversation I had with a family member of mine who, you know, he doesn't preach this per se, but he would consider himself pro-black. And I said, you know, all right, fine. But let's just say this. Does it help you to have multiple baby mamas? Right. If you think the white man is oppressing you, how does it help you to have two baby mamas and three kids?

Does it at all, right? How does it help you to have a separation in a family? It doesn't. You have one income earner in the house. How does that help you when you could have two? Right. If white people are setting up a system where we're going to make less, why do you have less people in the household who can make less?

You know, so I'm just being very logical about the situation of the world around me. Even if you want to be pro-black and believe in all this stuff, let's go back to family, build up the family, and you'll change all different types of outcomes. I think that's a great message. So talking about thinking logically and not thinking logically, summer of 2020, you brought up George Floyd. This terrible thing happens, and it was a terrible thing that happened. And the world goes absolutely apeshit. You said you had some thoughts about that that weren't being reflected.

What was your take on that? My take on it was, well, for me, I'm one of those people who likes to sit back. and watched the reaction of people. So not even, it wasn't necessarily George Floyd, but it was the reaction to George Floyd that I was reacting to. And it was like watching people, let's say they were black,

people that I knew who had happy, successful lives, all of a sudden became victims. And it was like they were talking about a world that they were not living in whatsoever. And I'm just like, how did we get to this point in just a matter of days where everybody, to me it felt like a panic attack.

felt like America was having a panic attack. And as someone who suffered from panic attacks, just looking at like a rational view of the world. And I'm like, but look around you, everything is actually fine. Like, this is unfortunate, but this black person has nothing to do with you. Right. And so look at your world. Let them fight that fight with George Floyd.

But your world is not George Floyd's world. And I want people to realize that. But it just felt like the media was all in on using basically black plight as some motivating factor that you must go out into the streets. And apparently it's okay to burn things down. It's mostly peaceful anyways. So I just had a problem with, and I'm going to use the group identity, them labeling black men as being in constant fear. And actually, it reminded me of an article I wrote for the New York Post talking about, actually, actually Jonathan Capehart, who wrote this op-ed after Buffalo's mass shooting, which they say,

you know, there's white supremacists who targeted a black neighborhood and shot the people. And that's highly unfortunate. But he made this vision of black people constantly in fear. And he's hinting at leaving the country himself. This millionaire who lives in D.C., he's not leaving the country. Right? But at the end, he makes himself the hero and says, I'm not leaving. I'm going to stay here, right?

And I thought to myself, white supremacy is the constant picturing of black people as being fearful, scared, incapable, and the only way they can succeed is by white people's good grace or the government coming in and doing something for them. To me, that's white supremacy. And that's what I was watching. I'm watching white supremacy happening in front of me of them saying, look at these poor, black people. We need to do something for them. You have white intellectuals who, you know, the Robin DiAngelo's and all these different people who are coming out and say, look at the black

play. We have to do something for these people, right? And I'm saying we could do for ourselves. Like, and just because I am black doesn't mean I share the same experience as this other person. Just like you're white and you don't share the same experience as every other white person. Like, to me, it just removed our individuality and we just became this collective that was just weak and feeble. and everybody must do for us, and everybody must say our narrative and speak for us. And then what made it worse is that we have the black bourgeoisie that goes out there and repeats these narratives because they get social benefits from them. They get the affirmative action out of this narrative, right? Because they always benefit from it.

They get to go to the Ivy League schools and have their kids go to the Ivy League schools because they fit that quota, right? It doesn't benefit any other black person. Just like it doesn't benefit any other black person when a black head coach gets hired. and they become a millionaire all of a sudden. How does that benefit me? But I'm supposed to clap and cheer of the benevolence of the NFL for hiring another black person. So there's a class element to it as well that I constantly bring up.

But that story with Jonathan K. Pissed me off so much that I wanted to say that he's the blackface of white supremacy, not Larry Elder, right? And if we're going to have blackface of white supremacy, then this is the guy who's doing it. And he's one of many who does it. Adam, doesn't it worry you that we just bandy the term white supremacy about just willy-nilly? And you think this is actually something very, very serious.

There are white supremacists. There are white supremacists here. There's white supremacists in America. And all we do when we use this term over and over again is we just devalue it. Yeah. And I think we should devalue it because it's not that much of value anyways. If I label someone as a white supremacist, then what? Then what?

You know, they did it to themselves. They cried wolf too many times. So I'm one of those people who actually doesn't want to fight the language. I'm going to use the language. I'm just going to redefine it. If the leftists get to redefine words, if they get to redefine racism, redefine blackness and whiteness and all these different things, then screw it. I'm going to redefine it too and use it to my advantage just like them.

Because I think we shouldn't. fight language as hard as we're trying to because it makes it seem like we're hiding something, right? I'm not a white supremacist, you know, like, it was like, oh, white supremacists would say that. And so we should actually use the words to our advantage because you can, right? And that's the magic of the English language. How do you use the words to your advantage? I use it to my advantage by redefining them, just like how they use it to their advantage to redefine it. The reason they're able to get away with racist narratives is because they redefine what racism is. And so it's our job now to redefine the redefinition of racism back to its appropriate point.

It's our turn to use their lingo and use it against them to prove our point as to what we're actually trying to say. So give me an example. Well, the white supremacy aspect. To me, I'm not going to fight white supremacy. I'm not going to fight the usage of the word and we use it too much. I'm going to leave it in the lexicon and redefine it because now then they're on the back. of saying, well, you know, we'll just use another word. You know, it's like, all right, fine, bring up another word and I'll fight it if you try to redefine it.

So I want us to battle the definitions of words and keep redefining it. Every time they redefine it, we do it again. Rather than trying to say this word shouldn't be used as much because it minimized, no, it's already here. People use these words. I remember years ago, no one ever said white supremacy. Now they do. So we can't get people to not say it anymore. The only thing we can do is redefine it to its appropriate usage.

Do you not think as well that it's very dangerous when they use these words? Because like I said, there are genuine white supremacist. And they will just say, well, everybody's a white supremacist now. Therefore, what does that mean? So they can kind of hide under the cover of this word being misused or misappropriated. Well, here's the thing. I think we genuinely have white supremacists, but we don't define it the way that it should be defined. I think the majority of social progressives are white supremacists.

So that's why I actually think we should keep the word in the lexicon because these people are. You know, a lot of them are the black elite who cate for them. They're the white elite who are socially progressive, who are in all of our institutions. They're part of government. They're part of the media. They have influence in our society. They're in Hollywood. They're actually white supremacists in my eyes.

Hold on. White supremacy in its actual definition is the belief that the white people are genetically, inherently superior to everybody else and should have power in society because of that. So how are social progressives white supremacist under that definition? Well, I would say they're white supremacist by action, right? So if you say the only way that Adam can succeed is if I do something for him. that places you above me. Correct. It makes you stronger than me because I can't do for myself.

And that is the environment that we currently live in as far as in the media and as far as how even the government operates now. Poor black people, they need our help. No, I totally get it. And I think one of the things you talk about in Black Victim to Black Victor is the idea of having a victim requires a savior. Absolutely. And so this ideology is particularly appealing.

to certain people who want to be victims and want government help or other people to look after them or whatever. But even more so is really appealing to people who want to help the poor downtrodden black and brown people. Exactly. That is actually going to be the topic of my next book. It's the saviorism aspect of it. That is something that is motivating a lot of our society, regardless of race, people who want to save the world. People who want to save the unfortunate transgender people who are being maligned. Everybody just feels like they must do to save other people. But they're giving the illusion that they're only doing it to help other people, but they're doing it for themselves.

Right. No one's asking them to do it. They're taking it upon themselves. They're forcing other people to become activists and take these initiatives. They're doing it to promote themselves. It's not a selfless act. It's very selfish of them. do so. And it's very narcissistic. I think that's the best way of putting it. It's very narcissistic

vision that I must do for other people because they can't do for themselves. And they'll use every angle, every statistic, every possibility to make sure that people understand that I must do these things for society because I must save society. But don't you think as well, Adam, there might be a more kind of basic explanation to it, which is it's much easier to save someone else or than to actually deal with your own problems. Because dealing with your own problems, let's be for it's fucking hard. Whereas going and, you know, fighting for the world or whatever else, you know, you don't have to deal with the fact that maybe you're not good at X, Y, and Z.

Right. And even fighting for the world is an empty gesture. Like who is actually fighting for what? Is you holding a picket sign, actually changing much of it. anything? I mean, it's very low bar activity to change something. Who knows? Is sitting in the middle of the road actually going to stop climate change in your vision? But you just feel like you must do something, right? And it puts you at the center focus. But it's even more damning when they put themselves at center focus. And it hurts other people in the process,

right? They're willing to do it despite it hurting other people. They're willing to do it despite how it makes other people look, how it inconveniences you from going to work. They don't care. They want to sit in the road because me saving society is more important than you going to your job and to support your family. So it's a much more, I would say, malevolent kind of activity that people don't really recognize, or at least they haven't been able to define it the way I'm trying to define it. But I think it's much so saviorism that is just.

just plaguing at least America and probably here it's plaguing our society and the most powerful people have it the worst yeah yeah well we import all your crap so no doubt whichever where america goes we'll get it but it sounds to me like in some ways what i'm hearing out of our conversation is actually the answer to this savourist activism isn't counter activism actually it's perhaps promoting some very old-fashioned things Like the ones we've been talking about from the beginning, which is family, you know, agency, the idea that your job is to better your own life and to improve yourself as opposed to looking out into the world and go, oh, this is what needs to change and these people need my help with this.

Actually, look inside, you know, are you a parent? Are you a good one? What are you doing with your life? Are you trying to get better, et cetera? Is that how you feel this needs to change? Or do you think that there's more structural stuff that needs to happen as well? I think if you're going to change anything in society,

you have to start within your own home. That's why I always go back to family. If family disappears and the vision of family disappears, then our society disappears. I think that is the number one thing that we need to focus on. And I think it means something when we're watching things that look incredibly different than when our grandparents live through.

And then we're looking at aspects of society who was like, this is terrible. Like, it just doesn't work. It doesn't functionally work. And when I tell people that the United States is number one in single parenthood, and I look at all these different areas, and I know that what happens behaviorally for kids who grow up in single parent homes, what they're more likely to do. You know, people like to say United States incarcerates the most people.

Well, guess where these people come from? Like, you think they're just happy one day and woke up and just started breaking the law, start hurting people just cause? Like, no. A lot of times it is a cycle that leads down to this point where they get caught up into something. They feel like they have no other choice or they have no control of their impulses because no one taught them how to control their impulses. You know, you have all these different things, these different areas that come down to what happens that the family affects the rest of society. And then for the people who fail to properly raise their children, to manage their family, the rest of us.

pay for it, right? You now have to pay more security for your home because of a degenerate who grew up in a dysfunctional home now wants to take your stuff, right? You now have to be worried about your safety as you're walking down the street at night because someone who's coming from a messed up home who's now addicted to cover for that pain is now trying to take something from you or willing to harm you to get what they want, right? The rest of society pays for the failures of families. And I don't think people fully understand that. Hey Francis, if you were a member of the public, would you like the opportunity to ask incredible guests like Bill Burr, Jordan Peterson, Sam Harris, Adam Carolla, Brett Weinstein,

John Barnes, Douglas Murray, Nigel Farage and Lionel Shriver, your own questions. You bet I would. And what do you think the best way to do that would be? Probably stalking, mate. You'd have to corner them in the supermarket. probably run near like the sort of frozen food aisles and then just bark questions at them before they can escape. Not the American ones, as they have guns. And you'd have to be extra careful with the females, as that's how I got in trouble last time.

Do you really imagine you're going to get Douglas Murray near the frozen food aisle? If you want to ask our incredible guest questions and have access to phenomenal behind-the-scenes content, then you have to be on our locals. That's right, for only $7 a month, You get incredible extra content, behind the scenes footage, giveaways, and also the chance to be part of an incredible community where you can meet and hang out with like-minded people.

You get access to our American vlogs as we travel across the country interviewing our heroes. An extra 20 minutes of our viral Sam Harris episode, as he discusses his approach to COVID. We're also going to start doing giveaways of exclusive trigonometry merchandise like this, a poster from our Edinburgh show signed by both of us. And also, a House of Lords Teddy, which you can only get in the House of Lords, signed by the one and only Baroness Fox. Locals also gives you access to an incredible online community. You can share memes, talk about the latest episode, or even make a new friend.

Just one. Exactly, more than both of us have, really. People are now doing meetups in their city because they love locals. In fact, some people enjoy. it so much, they prefer it over the show. They prefer Locals to Trigonometry. If I have to get them executed, I'm the one that goes to jail. Right. Go to Trigonometry. Dot Locals.com. Only $7 a month for all that incredible content. Trigonometry. Dotlocals.com. See you there, guys. It's a tough message to hear, but it's a necessary one. Do you think we're ever going to have this

conversation in the mainstream in an open and honest fashion? Or do you think we're always going to just try and brush it under the carpet simply because it's so difficult to hear? I think there's always a bowling point. I think the fact that I'm sitting here talking to you about this is a good sign. And I see other people who are starting to talk about the importance of men, importance of fathers, how it's affecting them, how it's affecting their kids. I think feminism has brought a raw deal to families and especially to women. I think feminism hates women, to be honest with you. But I think that aspect of just going full force into feminism and to say women are infallible

and just not caring about how this viewpoint affects children, how it affects the fathers, how it affects anything else between this bond between the mother and the father and children, and just going towards high individualism, high individualism, high, you know, self-preservation, like no sacrifice. You know, it's that kind of, it's kind of a sick world that we're promoting, that we're saying this is perfectly fine because this is what this person wants and everything is fine because of it. It's like, no, we had rules for a reason, we had boundaries for a reason, we had standards for a reason. I remember years ago when I was a kid,

someone who would have a child out of wedlock was sometimes looked sideways. Now it's like, no one cares. And that is part of the problem. And we're not willing to criticize people who are involved in those particular situations. I actually agree with almost everything you said, but I'm just, I want to ask you what you mean when you say feminism hates women. Feminism hates women. Because we have feminists to watch our show. And I think the difficulty with a statement like that for me is there's about 73 different ways of people.

being feminist. Yeah. And at the basic core of it, you're talking about men and women should be treated fairly and equally. Yeah. I've got no issue with that. No issue with that either. So what kind of feminism are you talking about and what do you mean exactly?

I would say, because everybody has the different waves, I would say modern feminism. So modern feminism hates women because it tells them to be everything that isn't natural to being a woman, right? It says, in order for you to succeed in the world, you must be like men. So you must be aggressive like men, but they always come out to be too aggressive, because men are usually successful men are measured in their aggressiveness. It tells them to get rid of marriage, right? It's all about your career.

Well, actually, men have careers in marriage, right? So it sends them all these mixed messages, and I think a lot of women end up hurt because of it, and they're unhappy because of it. You know, I consume all different types of content, and I sometimes watch content. where women are in their midst, the late 30s and the 40s, who are regretful because they did want children, but they were told not to have children, or they did want to get married,

but they were told that marriage is old-fashioned and you don't need to get married. You know, they're being told to do things that isn't natural to them, and they're now regretful when, you know, they start to leave that bubble of feminism. And it actually, feminism really promotes things that benefit men,

especially very successful men or men who are able to swim the women, so to speak, or who are very attracted to women, they get sex from it. You know, we're no longer allowed to criticize female sexuality whatsoever. And if you want to have sex, have sex, but now it's like, it doesn't even matter if it's reckless sex. It doesn't even matter if it's sex work. It doesn't, none of it matters anymore. And so who benefits from it the most? Men, men who can get a lot of sex, they benefit from it.

So I'm asking myself, like, how is feminism actually helping women today? It's not really. They're unhappier. They're taking more pharmaceutical drugs, at least in the United States. They're taking a lot of pharmaceutical drugs to suppress this uneasiness. I don't see how it benefits women whatsoever. It's an interesting point that you made because one of our best recent interviews is with a woman called Louise Perry, who's written a book called The Case Against the Sexual Revolution.

and I think she's going to be over time develop into almost like a Petersonian type figure because in the same way that Jordan Peterson had a message for men that they have not heard but really needed to hear, which is your job as a man is to get better and improve your life. Stop whining. Get on with it. The only way you're going to get anything

is by being different, is by being better, is by working harder, is by being true to who you are, et cetera. And that's why I think Jordan Peterson became such a huge figure because he came in at the right moment with the right message. And I think Louise, who is talking about actually,

she puts up in a more delicate way than you do. But her message is similar, which is, we've been sold a lie. Women, and I totally agree. And when I, you know, as a new father, I see the transformation of my wife becoming a mom and how fulfilled she is doing that. I think a lot of women haven't been reminded,

at least, that that option is still there. You could be a mum first and do other things second, and quite often that will be the most fulfilling thing that you do do. And that's okay. And society hasn't been good at communicating that to women, I think. So I think you're right. And I think you're going to start to see that change, as you say, our generation of women, who are getting to the point where they're not quite childbearing age anymore. Disappointed in some of the choices they've made, that is going to feed down into the culture.

I wouldn't be surprised if like people who are in their 20s now start having kids younger, actually, despite all the difficulties, the housing crisis and all of that. But speaking of the younger generation, I wanted to ask you if you think this will naturally turn, or do you think it's not going to be a kind of action-reaction type of situation? I'm optimistic, but I don't think the change is going to necessarily happen with within this generation. I think it's going to be the next generation. I think sometimes what happens

is you have to see the mistakes of the previous generation to realize, like, maybe we shouldn't do that. Progress is good when it's good progress. To progress, just for progress's sake, it doesn't make any sense. If it works, then let it work. And I think

the nuclear family works. but we're being told that it doesn't, and we have to ask a question, why are we being told this, and who is perpetuating this message, and why are we even listening to these people? Who controls this narrative? And so that's why I think it's important

that we disconnect, right? We disconnect from social media every so often. We disconnect from the television movies, because they are putting out certain messages. They are showing that men are weak, right? And women are just super strong, and they have no story arc as a superhero. You know, they're showing these particular messages, but when you disconnect from it and then you go and look and just ask yourself, like, who's happy?

Like, who is genuinely happy? Right. And I look at people who are in long-term relationships, they look happy, right? There's no... Some of them. That is true. I'm just joking, and I know exactly the point you're making. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I would say the happiest people are the people that I've seen that who are in long-term success relationships. the most depressed, the most depressed, the unhappiest, tend to be people who struggle with relationships. And they struggle sometimes because of their own doing. A lot of times because of their own doing. And they're moving away from things because they feel that it is beneath them. Like, for example, it's perfectly fine to cook for your man. Like, that doesn't make you beneath him. That's actually something that is of a gift.

And it's also fine that if he protects you, like that's not beneath him. That is something that he's doing for you as well. Like we have exchanges within relationships, gives and takes sacrifices. You know, these are naughty words these days. But I think it's important that we sacrifice for each other. That's how you have a successful family. And how are you going to be a selfish parent, right? How does that work?

You have to sacrifice for your children. You have to be willing to say, you know what, I'm not going to do this because they're more important. And I think that is the magic of becoming a parent. That's what made me a better man growing up was saying, like, I got to stop messing around, and I got to take maybe some risks, but I got to do whatever I have to do to make sure that my son is good. And so you asked before, like growing up, becoming a man, a lot of it had to do with my son and having him early forced me to say, this is bigger than me. And now today, now that he's 17, for me speaking up and saying something,

is the most important thing for me to do because I don't want him to say how come my dad didn't say something how come my dad was sitting back and acting like a coward meanwhile he's telling me these things oh this is crazy and I didn't do anything about it and it doesn't seem like it it takes a lot of effort to really just like say something

you know for me to sit down and write a book and I had never written anything before and to go into it and express myself and put it out there. Part of the reason I wrote that book is because of my son. I wanted to write a book years prior,

but I didn't know what to write about. But the reason I wanted to write a book is because I was thinking about my legacy and what I wanted to leave for my son. So my son is my legacy, but I wanted to leave something that he can always remember and be proud of his father about.

So that is part of the reason why I wrote my book, and he read it, and he understands his father much more after reading this book. And I'm just trying to show people like, do something. You know, I'm an IT guy by trade. And if I can get up one day and just sit down and write and express myself and put myself out there for criticism and be critical of the world around me and have some success because of it, like why can't other people do it?

But, you know, you have to become an example for your kids. If you sit back and you cower and you cry and complain and you do nothing about it, you're teaching that to your kids as well. So I tell my son to question everything, including me, and do something about it. If you don't like how something is, go and do something about it. But don't sit there and complain, right? And if I'm going to tell him that, I have to do it as well. Right. Right.

It's interesting that you mentioned that because having my son had the exact same effect on me right away. Because I went, okay, look, I oppose identity politics because I just think it's racist. Right. Right. Right. And I've always done it and I've always said it and I've taken the risks and we've done the show together talking about it or whatever. But the moment he was born, I was like, wait, there are idiots out there who are going to judge him this pure thing that is just pure potentiality. He hasn't said a word.

He hasn't moved. He hasn't done anything. All he does is eat and poo, right? But they've already judged him. Right. That's wrong. Right. I'm not prepared to live in a world in which that's happening and I haven't said anything.

Right. And actually same thing for me. My son is mixed race. And, you know, I remember years ago I asked him, like, do you see yourself as black or white? And he says, I do see myself as Daniel? Right. And I'm like, that's a fair answer. And it's unfair to put kids who are in mixed race situations to pick one side.

And, you know, I think it's just an unfair world. Like you said, the identity politics creates. rather than seeing us as humans with superficial differences. Because that's all it really is. My son looks like me, but just a little bit lighter skin. But he is a good person. He is a good kid, and he's going to grow up to be someone who is beneficial for society. And that's all that really matters.

You know, group identity, humans are group related. You can't defeat that. And sometimes it's good. Nationalism, sometimes it's good. we're always going to find some sort of group orientation. That's how we survive. But it's when it runs amok. It's when it becomes the only thing that we care about and the only thing that we focus on

in saying that we are completely different because you have more pigmentation or less pigmentation. That's when we start going down a realm that feels dirty, in my opinion. And it doesn't even matter who the perpetrators are. It doesn't matter if they're black or white, Hispanic. It doesn't matter what they are. There is something wrong about wholly prejudicial. people based off of characteristics.

And I think we've seen what happened in human history when we went down that path wholeheartedly. And also as well, the thing to bear in mind, Adam, is in a few years this is not going to matter because we're all going to be transracial anyway. We're going to be able to identify as whatever we want. Yes. Following in the footsteps of the great man, Justin Trudeau. Yeah. Yes, the great Justin Trudeau.

Yeah, I think, I would say this. The reason I'm speaking out is because I feel like the average American doesn't have a voice. And I feel like I am much of the average American. I'm much of the average American economically, life experience. And obviously I went through some things that maybe other people didn't go through. But I always felt like the average person. And when I talk to other people, they're average people too. And we have like all these narratives that are being created by a certain group of people about us.

But I'm like, none of these people are like this. Like I've been, like I said, I've lived in four states before I was 18. I lived in Tennessee as an adult. But I've seen all different types of areas in different people. People are people. You know, this idea that people are just waking up waiting to hate somebody, you know, overall, that's our mainstream viewpoint as Americans. That's not the America that I live in.

And we're painting this picture. And the American people don't have a voice. within the media, within society that is being projected like, hey, we're fine, we're good. Like, I really don't care that Adam is black. Like, he's black, that's fine. But I care that he's a good person and all these different things. You know, we were talking about Tennessee. One of my favorite things about living in Tennessee was that people would just come up and talk to you.

You know, and being from New Jersey, I'm not used to that. But I would be standing in line in some lady. She was an older white lady. She'd just come and talk to me and start telling me about her family. She didn't care that I was black. She saw me as a person there, and she was just communicating with me. And that's been my experience for a lot of different places that I have lived at. Obviously, I've had some racial incidences, but I could count them on one hand, thankfully.

Maybe some people have a little bit more, or maybe some people misinterpret things. But overall, Americans are generally good people who just want to go to work, take care of their kids, and have enough economics to do some extra things. But this idea that we're these highly sinful people who are just waiting to do things and have these malevolent thoughts. And I think that a lot of it is actually projection by the people who are delivering the message.

And one thing that I want to touch on, which your son would be able to speak about, is the mixed-race experience. Because if we start looking at everything through a racial lens, Then we'll go, oh, this person is, you know, darker-skinned African-American, therefore they have this experience. Therefore, you are more privileged because you were lighter because... And it's just never ending, isn't it?

It just never ends. It never ends. And then, I don't know if you guys heard of, like, the one-drop rule. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We actually kind of have that still. So just explain to people who haven't heard of it what the one-drop rule is, please, Adam. So the one-drop rule is, like, it's basically, I'm probably going to butcher it a little bit,

But it's basically like if you have one drop of black blood, then you're black. So it doesn't matter anything else. It doesn't matter if half, you know, quarter is this, a quarter is that, quarter is that. Well, a good example is Barack Obama. Half white, the first black president. No one called him mixed race until after 10 years gone by. Exactly. And if someone meets my son and he's pretty light skin.

But if they meet him and they find out that I'm black, then they would say, well, he's black. Right. Right? Or, you know, there's, you're a quarter black. You know, it's just like everything is about the one drop rule. And it's a weird dynamic to constantly see. And I almost feel like it, it erases people, like it erases people, people's individualism to kind of see things through the prism of how much blood do you have? What blood do you have even more so? But it's a natural consequences, natural consequence of tribal group identity because if some groups are better than others or some groups are worse than others then naturally people will want to be in a particular group

or will be forced to be in that group as opposed to just go, I'm Daniel. It's an interesting point you talk about, you know, people, the people, when we interviewed Bill Burr, when we went to America, this is the point that he made, which is like he started playing all these black clubs and initially as a white guy who maybe hasn't been in that environment, you're going, oh, these black people, blah, blah, blah.

And then once you're used to it, you start to see, oh, that's my, that guy just like my friend Steve, who's an asshole. You know what I mean? And that's really the simple message is people are people. And look, I think we've all really enjoyed this conversation. I think the conversation about family and parenting and masculinity and all of that is going to be a big part of not only the conversation going forward. I actually think it's a big part of the solution too.

I think if we can do what you're talking about, which is focus on encouraging people, not going back to the 1950s, but actually going forward. What is the constructive view of the future? Well, it's got to be, you know, becoming a new parent has opened my eyes to how anti-Natal our society is. It's incredible. I remember reading your book going,

oh, he became a dad of 21. Wow. What's so weird about becoming a dad at 21? It's what human beings have done for millennia. It's completely normal. Yet in our society, we think of that as some kind of crazy thing. Right. You know? So anyway, I'm really glad we had this conversation.

I think what you're talking about is going to be a big part of the way this issue gets talked about, but also a way that some of these things get resolved going forward. So I really appreciate you coming on the show. Thank you. And as always, we've got one more question for you. Which is, what is the one thing we're not talking about, but we really should be? The vulnerability of children in single-parent homes to sexual molestation. I'll go back to this.

I try to end on a positive thing. It's a fucking hell, mate. Jesus Christ. You don't know. Maybe there's a great joke at the end of it. Let's do it. No, there's no. I gave him all this uplifting stuff about he's doing the right thing.

Let's talk about pedosh. Yeah, let's talk about. All right, there we go. But we joke, you make a very good point. And my friend Holly, who used to work with Brett and Heather, Brett, Bert Weinstein and Heather Heying, she always talks about this as well. So go for it.

Yeah. Basically, I don't think people understand the safety aspect when it comes to having someone who is an adult, especially a male, brought into the home of a child that is not theirs. And how much vulnerability that leaves, because predators look for vulnerabilities. And men who are looking for children to basically prey off of, they're going to look for single mothers.

That is a reality. And I remember having this conversation on a podcast, and there were three guys there, and I was explaining how this would all work and how this is a major vulnerability. And when I finished speaking, one of the guys said, you basically explained my childhood to a T. Everything that I explained as to what happens,

to these kids and how vulnerable they become, he basically went through. And his story is the silent story that people don't feel comfortable talking about. So for me, there's the childhood behavioral aspect, but safety, right? Children are safer with both of their natural parents within the home. Obviously, they're a good step parents. They exist, right? But I cannot deny the statistics that exist when it's not even, close, how much danger children are in when they're along with a parent who is not their

biological parent, whether it be physical abuse or sexual abuse. Yeah, and a lot of times as well, this is a really tragic thing, and I saw it as a teacher, just kids, a moment they hit 16, stepdad doesn't want them around, out they go onto the streets. Yeah. And then they become part of the homelessness problem. Right. And a lot of the times those kids are super vulnerable and they fall through the cracks in the system, and it's heartbreaking.

Because they haven't even started yet and they're already minus 500, whatever it is, it's heartbreaking. Nice uplifting episode, everybody. No, I joke because just to ease the tension, but actually, I think you both make a really important point. I'm so glad you brought this up.

It really needs to be talked about. Adam, Black Victim to Black Victor is the book. So great to have you on the show. Really appreciate it. We're going to ask you a couple of questions that our local supporters have submitted that only they will get to see. the answer to. But for the moment, thank you so much for coming on the show. My pleasure.

And thank you guys for watching and listening. We will see you with another brilliant episode like this one or Raw Show. All of them go at 7pm UK time. And for those of you who like your trigonometry on the go, it's also available as a podcast. Take care and see you soon, guys. How do you start a friendly conversation to change someone's self-perceived victimhood?