TRIGGERnometry - Cancelled by Woke Church of England - Calvin Robinson

Episode Date: May 30, 2022

Broadcaster and political commentator, Calvin Robinson, joined us in the studio for a special live recording to talk about how his ordination in the Church of England was blocked recently, owing to his political views. Join our exclusive TRIGGERnometry community on Locals! https://triggernometry.locals.com/  OR Support TRIGGERnometry Here: Paypal: https://bit.ly/2Tnz8yq https://www.subscribestar.com/triggernometry https://www.patreon.com/triggerpod Bitcoin: bc1qm6vvhduc6s3rvy8u76sllmrfpynfv94qw8p8d5 Buy Merch Here: https://www.triggerpod.co.uk/shop/ ADVERTISE on TRIGGERnometry: [e-mail] Join the Mailing List: https://www.triggerpod.co.uk/sign-up/ Find TRIGGERnometry on Social Media:  https://twitter.com/triggerpod https://www.facebook.com/triggerpod https://www.instagram.com/triggerpod About TRIGGERnometry:  Stand-up comedians Konstantin Kisin (@konstantinkisin) and Francis Foster (@francisjfoster) make sense of politics, economics, free speech, AI, drug policy and WW3 with the help of presidential advisors, renowned economists, award-winning journalists, controversial writers, leading scientists and notorious comedians. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello and welcome to a very special live episode of Trigonometry. I'm Francis Foster. I'm Constantine Kishin. And this is a show for you if you want honest conversations with fascinating people. We are here live with our brilliant and returning guest. It's one Calvin Robinson. Welcome back, man. Thank you, thank you. Honestly, the most referenced show that people talk to me about is your show. They say, I've seen you on Trigonometry. I first heard about you on Trigonometry, so it's good to be back on this show.

All right. Well, you've managed to be on. to get yourself cancelled yet again in your life, so you're back on the show. But it's been a busy time for you. And just before we get into everything that's been going on, for people who are not familiar, who are tuning in, maybe you heard a bit of the story, don't know who you are, just give us everybody a little refresher of your background, where you're coming from, et cetera. Who I am in 30 seconds. I've been training for the priesthood for holy orders in the Church of England for the last couple of years, reading theology at Oxford. I present and sit on panels on G.B. news and occasionally write in the broadsheets and tabloids.

That sums up. Yeah. And you're a very prominent conservative commentator. And I would say one of the things that I find interesting about you is you comment on some of the cultural stuff that we also talk about, but you do it from a very restrained place. You're not some massive culture warrior who's going around being provocative for the sake of it, which I think probably reflects the faith journey that you're on as well. So you've come into prominence yet again in the last week

because you've had some issues with the Church of England in which you were training. So just give everybody the whole story from the beginning. So I think you've hit the nail on the head there in that I do comment on the cultural wars but from a faith perspective. It's all about the faith for me. It's all about putting Christ at the center of everything that I do.

And I fight the good fight for that reason because I think that our society is running down the wrong direction and it has been for the last few years it's chasing wokeness. unfortunately, I believe the church is also going down that path. In so many ways, I think I mentioned last time I was on about churches closing throughout the pandemic in a time when there was a great need for people to have someone looking out for their spiritual well-being. The churches said, we're not just closing to the people, we're closing to priests.

You can no longer come in and pray for your parishioners. We've seen that cathedrals have said you can only come in if you've got a medical mandate to not use key technology that's going to trigger your platform. We've seen the church take on board critical race theory. So this is something that I opposed quite loudly in that they put out a report called Lamenta to Action, which took on board a whole load of critical race theory language, anti-white sentiments, you know, quotas for ethnic minorities, all of this kind of stuff. I said, this is incompatible with our faith.

Why? I get that there's a topic of conversation here that's not just national but global around black, Black Lives Matter. We have to be a part of it. Of course we do, because we're faith based on justice. But we can't take on board neo-Marxist ideologies in order to address the issue. We can't. You know, the church, they stood up and said, we are institutionally racist. Without any evidence, nothing to back it up, just we are deeply institutional racist. These are the words of the Archbishop of Canterbury. Now I said to my bishop, the Bishop of London, I don't think that's appropriate. I think that's quite divisive because, of course, there's so much racism going on in the world and in the country and potentially in the church. but that's individuals.

That's malicious or ignorant individuals that need, you know, the consequences of their actions need to be brought to them, not the entire institution. Don't paint us all as racist. Unless you've got some evidence to back that up, then I'll hold my hands up and say,

okay, maybe it is. But, you know, the Sewell report came out, the CRED report that looked into racism and racial disparities in our country. Didn't find any evidence of racial, institutional racism. It doesn't mean it didn't exist. It didn't find any evidence of it.

So I turned to say, to go along with the lines of that, that racial disparities aren't necessarily a sign of racism, but are things that we need to address on a wider picture. What social economic factors are at play tend to be geography, class, background, education, all of these things come into someone's situation, not just their skin colour. And if we put it all down skin colour, we're dismissing the wider problem, and we can't actually solve it. So I said this, and the very upper-middle-class, white, metropolitan, liberal elite spirit, Bishop turned around and he said, but Calvin, I can tell you as a white woman, the church is

institution racist. And I'm like, okay, where do I go from here? Because it's very difficult, that level of not cognitive dissonance, but choice. It's a choice to take on board an ideology and not to consider other perspectives. And part of the ideology is actually, you know, taking on board the lived experiences of ethnic minorities. And I, as an ethnic minority, I'm standing up there saying, I want to give you my lived experience. And they're saying, no, no, no, that's the wrong type of lived experience. Just as they're always saying, you know, you're the wrong type of black. We want the black people that we can pat on the head and say,

good black person, you're falling in line with our way of life and with our thinking. I find it patronising almost to the point of racism actually. In order to prove their point that the church is institutioning racist, they said, actually, Calvin, we don't want to hear your point of view and said, we don't want to see you anymore, you're gone. So, Calvin, how long has a church been following this path? Was it like a lot of organisations and institutions, it all came to her head with George Floyd and the BLM demonstrations?

Had it already been going down that path for a while? It had already been going down that path. So I think it was 2017 when the ABC, the Archbishop of Canterbury stood up and said the church is institutionally racist. And then they put out this lament to action report around the time of Black Lives Matter that backed up that statement and pointed to his saying that in the general synod as evidence. And then they recently put out a contested heritage report, which advises clergymen how to remove potentially harmful statues and monuments from their churches.

And it said that this country is institutionally racist, and it referred to the Limit to Action Report as evidence of that. So it's a cyclical, you know, leftist approach to academia that evidence isn't actually evidence. It's all anecdotal. It all points to each other. But this idea that statues and monuments can be harmful by just being there. I get that people can take offence to anything, but, you know, offence is taken, not usually given, especially with inanimate objects like that. But these statues that we have up,

they're usually honoring something that someone's contributed to our society and or they're usually there to represent someone who's died. They're not there to say this was a perfect human being. And in fact, if you're a Christian, you acknowledge that nobody's a perfect human being. There's only ever been one perfect person, and that was Jesus Christ himself. Everyone else has fallen, everyone else has flawed individuals.

So we all have pasts. So this idea that, oh, somewhere in his past, his great-grandfather had links to the British Empire, therefore he needs to be removed because this is colonialism, that's a nonsense that goes against the faith. And so does the whole of critical race theory, this idea that white people are either overtly or covertly racist creates a new kind of original sin. It's a sin that only white people can commit, therefore, again, it's anti-Christian because we're all sinners. If there's a sin that white people can only commit and white people cannot escape, either it's overtly or covertly happening,

then there's no repentance, there's no forgiveness, and there's no salvation. Again, that's anti-Christian. All of this goes against our faith. Even the scripture itself, in Galatians or Acts, when we hear that there's neither Jew or Greek or that we're all made of one blood, one nation, the Christian idea is that we're united.

Our identity is in Christ. It's not in our immutable characteristics. Our skin color is irrelevant. So the people that are really pushing this, the church has doubled down today, actually. they've put out a statement, say, we back our efforts to support our anti-racism task force. Again, what's an anti-racism task force?

Why does a church have one? Sure, the better thing is for us to just not be racist. But it's that tribalism, isn't it? You've got to be in the anti-racism camp. Otherwise, you must be a racist. It's like, actually, no, let's take a step back. Let's look at the bigger picture. What the church has done in these reports,

they've said, you know, every leadership position in the church, must have 30% UKME people being put forward on a short list. Now UKME is the church's language for BAME. It's the UK minority ethnic, which is obviously the same as black and Asian minority ethnics, which is basically not white. If you're not white, you part the same club. We're all think alike, we vote alike, we talk alike.

That's how they see us. But of course, that's not true. But the idea that 30% of every leadership position in the Church of England needs to have an ethnic minority, shortlist, well, roughly 12 to 14% of the British population is ethnic minority status, but half of them are Muslim.

So that leaves... Let's get some Muslims in the Church of England. Diversity of folk, count. One vicar held up a plaque recently saying, we are all Muslims now, and I kind of think that's the way we're going. But that leaves 7% of the whole population. If you're in

somewhere like London, you've got a good chance of getting 30% on your shortlist, but if you're somewhere up north or down south, not so much the case always. It's an arbitrary number. But then they're also going down the roots of affirmative action or positive discrimination. And I don't think there is any discrimination that is positive. But wherein that they've just had an election for the general synod, the governing body of the church of England, anyone could put themselves up for election if they're a member of the church. And they're saying, actually, we need to co-opt some brown people on as well,

as if to suggest that ethnic minorities can't put ourselves up for election. We're not clever enough to do that, or we don't believe in a democratic process. So they have to co-opt some. five members on who happened to be UKME, that's backwards thinking to me. Calvin, look, we agree with you on this show with all of that completely, whether it's neither of us as church goers, but it's a principle, I think, that applies universally. But what I think, look, people are allowed to have different opinions,

and if someone wants to believe in critical race theory, that is entirely up to them, right? The problem with your case, from what I can tell, is your views were quite well known within the church, And as you went through your training, for which the church subsidized to some extent, as I understand, actually people behind your back were having conversations by email, which you've since discovered about how you must be prevented from advancing and all of that.

And to me, if people in the Church of England believe in critical race theory or want to implement some of these progressive work ideas, you know, it's a free country, do whatever you want. The problem is when people like you start to be excluded. Now, I know you will have your strength of feeling about some of those, ideologies as we both do as well. My point is what I'm getting at is it's not so much the case that you know they had these ideas and you had different ideas it's that like with many other institutions now and we see this across the board your ideas are not allowed to be had that are not allowed

to be expressed and you have to be pushed out. Talk to us about that. I will. I would go a step further and say if these ideas are counter-scriptural that they have no place in Christianity so anyone to believe in critical race though if they want to I would say it has no place in the church but My argument has been silenced, and it came to the end of my training. I'm just finishing now, and I was put forward to a parish, to be an assistant priest, that position got taken away, and I asked, you know, why, what's going on? One of the bishops, and I won't mention any names on here, because I don't want them to sue you, but I'm happy for them to sue me, because I will just release all the evidence and make it all public,

but I don't want them to sue you guys. But one of the bishops said, you know, it would be too turbulent, Calvin, because people might complain about your views. I was like to think my views are mostly Christian, and if you don't think they are, tell me which ones aren't. But if people are complaining about my Christian views, then surely I'm doing something right. But anyway, show me the complaints,

and I'll try and improve my practice and not be as offensive. And they refuse to show me. So I put in a subject access request, which enables me to see any communication about me within the church. And that was a big surprise, because this was all new to me, that I saw from these communications that bishops have been talking behind my back for the last couple of years, before they even sent me to training.

Very mind, they just paid 20 grand to send me to Oxford, and it's not their money, it's the money that the poor old ladies in the pews that they've used to send me to Oxford. And before even sending me, they decided that they didn't want me to be ordained. And the biggest cause that I could see from the communications is Calvin does not believe in institutional racism. Calvin does not believe in institutional racism, therefore we should keep an eye on his ordination process. wink-wink. It's the kind of he doesn't not agree with our politics, therefore do we really have a place for him?

And that worries me because obviously I've got a platform, I can expose all of this nonsense, but what about all the other conservatives? What about all the, whether politically or theologically conservative that have been silenced and pushed out? And since I've spoken up, I've had so many people, like laymen, there's, you know, people

in the congregations, but also clergymen priests that have reached out and said, you know, this is happening to me, I can't speak out because I'm relying on the stipend. You know, I get stopped, starved out or I've been bullied out because of this. I can't talk about it yet because my case system ongoing. It's ripen. It's everywhere and it's so demoralising. And it's very upsetting. And I use that word purposefully because one of the bishops has come out today with a statement. So in all the media, they haven't given any statements otherwise other than there's no place

for Calvin because we don't have enough slots in London, not spaces in London, which is an outright lie because I had a space that was taken away and there have many priests that have offered me spaces to train with them since. But anyway, that's the statement they put out. Today, one bishop has put out a statement in the church times, which is the mouthpiece of the church in England, because it's reliant on the money from the institution. It's very much establishment. Liberal media. And one of the bishops put out a statement saying that actually Calvin is, well, I'm not trying to get too personal, but Calvin is incorrect on this. Or my understanding of these conversations was incorrect. I'm like, okay, sure, I put all the information out there. But I lost my train of thought on where I was going with it. You're talking about the church times and the statement that they put out today.

So before that they were saying that there's no space for you, but now they've said something different. Yeah, yeah. Anyway, we'll come back to it. The thing I was going to ask you. Live television. It's like GB News said. No, the thing I was going to ask you, Calvin, is I'm not a Christian. I don't understand how these things work.

But I would have thought that if I think of priests or preachers off the top of my head, that I think of, that I would recall. I'd imagine quite a few of them would have had offensive views for some people in a society at the time in which they expressed them. Probably starting with Jesus himself, I would have thought. Let me pour you there before, I forget what I've just remembered. I use the word upset, and I'm very upset about this situation. The statement that the bishop put out through the Church Times,

and bearing of mind they haven't put a statement out anywhere else, not in the telegraph of the Times, the mail on Sunday the Express, but the Church Times put out a statement saying, I'm just having to hear that Calvin is very angry about the situation. it's the gaslighting when have you ever seen me angry ever like that's not how I put myself across and that's in line with

when I've had conversations with them saying I find this all very disappointed because it's not in line with our teaching and I say look Calvin it's not what you say it's how you say it and I find that so annoying because I try to at least be compassionate I try to be very moderate so I'm not one of these people that's very shouty

or you know going over the top so I don't think that's the truth I think it's a dishonesty Don't you think what's very interesting is I would see you as a classical conservative? And to be religious means a lot of the time you are conservative by nature. So in many ways, you're just reflecting the views of your parishioners who are both religious and conservative. I don't understand what is controversial about that. Trying to. I'll draw both of your questions together because I think Jesus Christ was controversial.

I think he rebuked people quite often and said, you're wrong on that. He was polite, but he was very abrupt. So that's wrong, this is the way, because he is the truth. And, you know, actually, he did get quite angry at times, turned up the tables in the temple when money laundering was going on. I do think his statement was controversial. I think his whole message is controversial. It's actually the most scandalous message in human history

that God came to earth as man in corner and died for our sins, for our salvation. It's quite out there. I don't know if we can tell the story without being controversial. And the bishops say, you've got to appease everybody, you've got to be more peaceable. And I don't think you can appease everyone. I think it's a divisive message. We're here to warn people of what's to come and to warn people away from badness and point them towards goodness, to point them towards Christ. It's quite simple, but it is divisive, it is controversial.

I completely agree with you. But let's focus on that point about your views. have we got to a place where a person can have mainstream conservative opinions that reflect his parishioners and at the same time be forced out of the church? Because small-see conservative views are, there might be mainstream and they might be in the majority, but of course it's a silent majority still. And the very vocal minority of the liberal elites or the woke people is seen as the normative. And we know it's not because you get so many people contacting you on a daily basis to say what their views are. But when all you see in here in the mainstream media and in

politics is that liberal elite perspective, that metropolitan liberal perspective, people start to believe it is the appropriate one to have in a public space. And, you know, people have compared me to other trainee priests that have been going through similar stuff. So there's another black or ethnic minority person who got ordained last year, actually, that put out a statement and again I won't mention any names, where he put out a statement saying that the cult, that whole idea about celebrating Sir Captain Tom Moore for raising, what was it, 32 million for the NHS?

Amazing. What a great man. What a patriot, you know, served our country more than once. But said that that was a cult of white nationalism, suggesting it's white supremacy to support this chap. 30,000 people put a petition together to say, please don't ordain this man because he's a racist. The church not only ordained him,

They've encouraged him, supported him. Right. And actually... So this guy is getting ordained. This guy's ordained. This guy's ordained. I'm not. Because he sees the right sort of racism.

He sees anyone that's white as racist and sees this country is racist. And I don't think that's true. I think individuals are racist and they need to be held responsible for actions. So Calvin, what is this about really? Because, you know, I've watched a few like Yuri Besmeanov lectures about demoralization and all of that. And I can't help but think that if the church is going down this part, we really have got to a point. where all the institutions and the systems and the structures

that were designed to keep the good things about the society that we have in place. Now, look, I suddenly would not argue the society doesn't need to move forward and adjust to the times and grow with technologically. We grow and embed all of that into how we live our lives. But I also think tradition and history and past and all of these things have value too. And yet we are seeing across every industry now, it seems, in every field, in every element of our lives, this creep of these new ideas that are undermining and destroying those things. What do you think this is about?

I think progress isn't linear. I think we can go down lots of different routes in life, but that's how they get you to say, well, it's 2022. Of course, X, Y, Z should be the case, as if, like, because it's this year, we're better than everyone in the past. Of course we should think this. But Eurobesmanov was absolutely right, as was Gramsky, as with this whole idea of the long march through the institution. and dissentrism, it has taken place. You know, I can see it in front of my eyes. We're talking about the church today, so I'll use that as an example.

Out of 116 bishops, only one of them overtly put their case before Brexit. The rest of them were either silent on Brexit or overtly supporting Remain. So there's massive disconnects between them and the general public. But even amongst people within the church, the congregations, 70% of normal laity voted for Brexit. So that's even more than the general public. So that disconnect is very, very clear there. But, you know, Yuri Besemov talked about this entreeism and what's going on

and how they're going to infiltrate our public institutions, our public bodies. In the church, it's not just the bishops. It's the people who selects the bishops. In this country, it's down to one individual to put forward names for bishops. Technically speaking, Her Majesty the Queen chooses the bishops on recommendation of the prime minister. But that's not how it works in practice. One individual, civil servant, puts forward the names.

And this is because Gordon Brown was embarrassed about, you know, being a Scottish Presbyterian, responsible for bishops in the Church of England, so he's stepped back from it. And obviously our monarchy is now constitutional, so she doesn't make an active decision. So this civil servant, who's just retired after 17 years, and we've got an even worse one in now,

has been putting forward liberal names for bishops constantly over the last two decades, and that's why the role of a group think, you know, they're in echo chamber, of a group think mentality. But don't you think, Calvin, that this is a perfect example that church and politics shouldn't mix.

the church shouldn't get involved in politics in any shape or form yes and no I think the reason we have the Lord's Spiritual in the House of Parliament is because they're supposed to be the moral compass of the nation and if the government is putting forward something that's anti-Christian the Lord's spiritual actually supposed to say look this is a more moral case because it's still supposed to be a Christian country

whether people want it to be or not but they're not doing that they are getting party political and the bishops are campaigning against government policy because it's conservative. You know, like the Rwanda plan and saying it's ungodly and then they're moralising the special COVID medicine and saying, to be a good Christian, you have to

take this. Did they really say that? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, to be a good Christian. If you love your neighbour, you will take the special medicine. That's inappropriate. That's overreach. Jab for Jesus. Yeah, absolutely.

It's wrong. You know, people should have an individual right to make a choice based on the data available for that particular medicine. there wasn't a lot of data available. So I understand why some people chose not to take it. But the church has no place to say, to be a good Christian, you have to. That makes me thick. But it's all over the place.

It's in every issue. It's in trans. It's in race. It's in gender. It's in sexuality. Do you think part of the problem is that, and look, we're not just talking about the Church of England here, we're also going to invoke my voice, a Catholic church. You look at the history of a lot of the church,

and there's quite a lot of... you know, how can we put this real serious crimes committed? And do you think part of this is just guilt looking back and saying, we've really messed up here, we need to really make sure we're hot on all the subject matter and all these political topics so that no one can ever accuse us of being racist, sexist, etc? Perhaps, but I think they need to look at,

they need to get back to the core message. What is the church for? What's it about? It's about Jesus Christ. It's about evangelising, it's about disciplining the nations, And it's about teaching people the truth, the way and the life. It's as simple as that. They just need to return to the book, returns to the Bible, do what it says in the Bible, promote those messages. If there's a big fad going on in the secular state, let the politicians discuss it, let them bang it out, bash it out.

But the church doesn't need to keep getting involved in party political matters. And this is why I have come to a conclusion that actually maybe the church women needs to be disestablished, maybe it needs to be separate, to take the church away from the state, so they can actually have people going to the church if they want. want to look after the spiritual well-being, but not have the bishops involve themselves in part of political matters. And Calvin, do you think maybe an alternative explanation to the one that Francis posited is that we know that the Church of England is not doing well by historical standard?

It's in decline, let's say. Do you think there's maybe part of it where they sort of like everyone wants to capture young people nowadays, television, comedy, young people, you know, we've got to get the young people And so maybe if we go woke, we're going to get the young people to join the church. They're all now. If we've got a trans flag on top of the spire, then everything, then we're going to get the people to come in and pray, which they're not doing. 100%. It's the same as the BBC, isn't it?

It's like attracting an audience that doesn't actually exist. They're trying to be overtly woke. They're trying to be very liberal, progressive, and think, this is what the young people want. Let's attract these, you know, let's get the trendy young people. It's like, I'm one of you, fellow kids. It's that whole name, isn't it? It's so cringe. It's embarrassing. And the church shouldn't be trying to chase societal norms anyway

or on any of these issues. Because the church should be counter-cultural. It should be an alternative, to put it scripturally. It should be a shining light in an ever-dorpelling world around us. Because people are sick and tired. A lot of people are sick and tired of what's going on around us. We're sick and tired of being lied to. You know, being told there are 99 genders,

or you can identify as a horse if you want to. I'm using a ridiculous example, but this is stuff that's actually going on. People know the truth. They know that it's just male or female. People know that, well, if being white doesn't make you a racist and being black doesn't make you a victim. And when they get sick and tired of what's going on around them in the state,

they should be looking towards something different, alternative. But if the church isn't offering that, where are they going to go? Well, this is why people end up in these stupid things like Extinction Rebellion. Because not only are people looking for a truth rather than the truth, people are also looking for a sense of belonging, a community, a place to be, a family. and if these wacky groups are offering it and the church isn't, they're going to join the wacky groups. What really bothers me about this situation as well, Cameron,

is like, as I said, I'm not a churchgoer. I don't go to church. It's not an important part of my life. But I also, I don't want to live in a society where it was the same. Right? People should be allowed to have Christian conservative views. Like, we have Christian conservatives that work on the show, right? And we have arguments and disagreements over the dinner table

as we talk about this stuff. And it's interesting, and it's the spice that adds to, the mix, right? Difference. But it seems to me like all the institutions, they've all got to be the same way, right? And there would have been a past in the 1930s or 40s where it was the other way around. It was all like that, right? But it seems to me like we're overswinging in the other direction where everything is becoming homogenous and everyone has to think the same, otherwise you're evil, big or whatever. Absolutely. I have very strong opinions on these things, but that doesn't mean I'm right. And I'm willing to debate them and have my ideas challenged. But it seems

the opposition isn't. So in these emails I saw from the bishops, for example, when I championed a petition against lamental action, that ridiculously CRT-infested report, the bishops had a conversation amongst themselves and said, well, it looks like we're right on this, then if Carlin Robinson is opposed to it. That's how they're affirming that they are right. They're not engaging in conversation. They're not saying, actually, here's an ethnic minority within the church

that has a different perspective to what we're used to. Let's take that one on board too and look at the wider picture. It's like, no, this is a right wing loon, so we must be right. I just can't believe because you've never been someone who shied away from what you believe in you've always been very forthright you've always been very honest

so I then look at it and then go why did they bring you in exactly why have they invested all this money in order to you know to give you this training and wonderful education at Oxford in order just to basically prevent you from being ordained it doesn't make any sense

no it doesn't because I suppose for them to say no they'd have to be open and honest at some point and they've never been open or honest with me. Even now when I sit down and have conversations with the bishops, it's very political. You know, have you ever spoken to someone where they can give you 100 words and you still don't get a meaning from it?

I'm like, I don't know what you're trying to tell me. I try to say what I mean and I mean what I say, and I really respect when other people can do that. But when they're talking around a subject and getting all political, it tells me they're actually a politician and they're not a pastoral figure. But they've never been open and honest. At the beginning, they could have said,

look, we don't think you're a good fit for the Church of England. We're not going to take you forward to training. But then they might have had a discrimination case or something. They might be afraid of that kind of thing. But even now, they've not said, look, we don't want you in the Church of England, or we don't like your views. Again, it's not we don't like your views. It's how you say they lie around the topic.

Oh, they say, you know, come back in a year time or two years' time and see if things have changed. You know my stance on these issues. You know what kind of person I am. You know what I stand for. You don't seem to like any of those things. I don't know if they're going to have changed any years. just be honest and say we don't want people that are conservative politically or theological

in the church we are looking to go forward as they call it in a liberal progressive way if that's your preferred route just tell me do you think there needs to be some kind of legislation from the government and I know that you're probably not very this is the left in him coming yeah it is yet the government involved regulate regulate it but I think it's come to a point now why is it acceptable to discriminate against somebody with legitimate political opinions simply because you don't share them, but you can't discriminate against race, sex, gender and all of those things, which I agree with? Why is it absolutely acceptable to disagree with somebody, to say to

somebody and discriminate against them because they have different political opinions? I mean, you have a good point. I don't know the argument against it. I've been saying for a long time we need to get rid of the Equality Act. I don't like the protected characteristics idea. But the other argument is just flood it with more protected characteristics. You know, political ideas could be a protected characteristic and then people might have a defense. As long as it's used as a defense and not as a weapon. And you know, Kimmy Badenox's really good on this and saying it's been used as a sword far too long. It should be a shield. And I get that argument, but this is the problem with the legislation. It's not always interpreted in the way it's

intended. Calvin, we're going to get questions from you guys in a second. So send in the superchats if you want us to pose your questions in a few minutes for Calvin. But what I was going to ask you, Calvin, is, do you think there's a problem for religion in general and for the church in particular? Because what you're talking about as the role of religion is to articulate and pass down certain, let's call them from your perspective truth. Things that are true, they are the Word of God, and there's a rigid certainty to them. Yet the world that we now live in increasingly is very,

subjective it's your lived experience it's your feelings it's your truth it's your and so there is an inevitable contradiction between those two positions and it seems that the church is now moving in that direction and you are one of the people who's going no no no that's not the role of the church do you think that is the conflict of the heart of this I do think you're spot on there and I think that's why a lot of people are lost because it's helpful to know that there is a universal truth that we're striving towards or the pursuit of knowledge whether you're Christian or enlightenment, it's the same angle,

whereas nowadays it is all subjective is your own, your own truth. If you own your own truth, you invent your own reality. That's pretty much a fantasy. The problem there is that you expect everyone else to take on board your fantasy. And that's when we get into cases of so-called discrimination or offence or hate crime

because people aren't living in your reality. I don't think that's acceptable. But what the church should be doing is teaching the objective truth, which to a Christian is God, is Jesus Christ. but, you know, so many times people say to me, the church has changed its teaching on homosexual marriage

or on abortion or whatever, and I'll say, no, it hasn't. The church has just stopped talking about these issues. The teaching remains the same. The doctor remains the theme, because the Bible remains the same. You can't change these things. All that's happened is the church has become embarrassed about the faith,

because it doesn't want to be seen as bigoted or whatever, or out of date or out of fashion, so it stopped telling people the truth. And now people don't know it anymore. And that is such a good point, because the reality is, if you're going to interpret the Bible in its most literal and its most honest way, you can't possibly be woke. They're fundamentally incompatible.

Yeah, absolutely. And that's why we have the problem we have, because people have stopped returning to the Bible, including the hierarchy of the Church of England. But you mentioned, is this at the end for the faith in general? I don't think it is. I think there are many, many solid Christians in this country, not as many as they used to be, but I think a lot of that is people are always nominally Christian

because it was the dumb thing. As English meant, you were Christian, whether you went to church or not, you're just a Christian. And now it's not the dumb thing, it's quite unfashionable to say Christians. So all those nominal Christians have moved away from, they're not only longer in the data. But the actual Christians, the practicing Christians, still are thriving.

And the problem we have is the monopoly of the Church of England. Because it's established, you know, Anglicanism is a broader movement than just the Church of England, but people see it as synonymous. Now, if it was separated, Church of the State, and the Church of England didn't have a hold on all the churches and on all the institutions and all of that business, other Anglican bodies could thrive.

I think that would be helpful for the people of this country. As well as Roman Catholics and other denominations, they'd have more of a foothold in the country if it wasn't all down to the Church of England. All right, so before we go to our audience questions, Kevin, what is the future for you then with all of this? because you know whatever people think about your views

I don't think anyone can deny that you're exactly the sort of person that should have a voice in our society they can disagree with your views but I think you're intelligent I think you're articulate I think the way you communicate your ideas is helpful rather than unhelpful

which there's a lot of going on at the moment right you have a prominent voice people listen to what you have to say like whether people agree with your views or not you should have a role in society certainly in my opinion Thank you. So how is that going to manifest itself now?

Because this is what you want. I know you're going to be hosting your show on GB News and you do other stuff, but I think the church is where you want to be. So what's the future hold for you now? Absolutely. So I don't feel called to full-time broadcast. I love having a platform and I love using GB News to spread the good news, but I don't think I'd ever be a full-time broadcaster.

I'm called to ministry, and I get to do that partly through broadcast, but I'd love to do that in a parish setting. and I also think there are a lot of people in this country that feel that the Church of England has left them rather than them leaving the church. That's how I feel. I feel the church has left me. It's gone woke, it's gone anti-Christian,

and I feel like I've stayed the same. So what I'm going to do is plant a church in London for people who think similarly to myself, that want to be Orthodox Anglicans, they can come along with worship together on a Sunday, have a good time, and just be true to the faith. All right, guys. Well, we're going to come back with all your questions

and some more from us in a second, We're going to take a quick break. I'm going to do that now and we'll see you back here in a couple of minutes with all your questions. Hey, Constantine, do you want better mental health? I'm from Russia. We don't have mental health. So how do you deal with mental health? You drink vodka, then go out and wrestle bear. If you live, you feel better.

If you die, you're not real men. What about the bear's feelings? It's Russian bear. It has no feelings. People don't always realize that physical symptoms like headaches, teeth grinding. and even digestive issues can be indicators of stress. And let's not forget about doom scrolling, not sleeping enough. Sleeping too much, under-eating and overeating. Sleeping too much, under-eating.

This is Western disease. Therapy has really helped me in my life to concentrate and focus. It's really important to have someone impartial you can talk to about the tricky issues that you're struggling to deal with. Therapy has played a really important role in helping me. to deal with my ADHD and become better in all areas of my life. Why is he telling them how weak he is? Drink vodka, feel better.

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Hey Francis, what do you think is the best way to advertise a business? That's easy. All you need to do is spend shed loads of cash on an advert that's going to be promoted on a dying medium light TV, then simply sit back and watch all your hard-earned money disappeared down the toilet. What about advertising with Trigonometry? Why would I do that when I can advertise on ITV3 for the measly sum of 20 grand and be watched by six people? Because Trigonometry now has over 350,000 subscribers across the different platforms and gets 2 million views and downloads a month?

That's right. You can place an advert with us and we'll promote your brand on one of our episodes. Your advert will be written by two professional comedians. Yeah, that's right. We're hiring two professional comedians. When we make our ads funny and engaging to the point where some people say the ads are their favourite parts of the show. Yeah, we probably shouldn't admit that, mate. All you need to do is contact us on marketing at triggerpod.com.uk. That's marketing at triggerpod.com.com.com. Advertise with us and we'll get your business cancelled.

Hello and welcome back to the second half of the interview where you get to ask your questions to Calvin Robinson. That was very smooth, by the way. You just had your thumb up for about two seconds. And then you went, hello and welcome back to. Anyway, we're going to take your questions. If you want to ask a question of Calvin, send in the super chat. We're also going to do a bunch of questions from locals. If you're not already on locals as a support, and make sure you get on there.

But anyway, fire away, Francis. Okay, so the first one is from Napoleon Blownapot. What does faith offer that atheism cannot? Everlasting life. simple as that. I mean, if you don't believe in something greater than yourself, where do you get your humanity from or where do you get your accountability from?

But also Christ offers us everlasting life in God. So I think that's something to look towards. It was actually one of the points I was going to make when we were having the conversation earlier because as for the 50th time, non-church-going person, the one thing that appeals to me about a faith-based structure is the reminder that you're not the center of the universe

and that there is something above you. And that is important, whether you believe in a bearded man in the sky or not, that without that, human beings are lost. And we find ourselves in a very dark place very quickly. But if everything's subjective and you get to choose your own everything and there's no truth, then that's the only way to be, isn't it? This is a counterbalance to a problem. So the left tend to be very collectivist, and they depend on the state to solve all the problems.

And on the right, we tend to be more individualistic and say, you know, the individual has their own freedoms, their own rights and responsibilities and their own choices to make. But then the individual becomes the God. And we are in the same problem as the left. So the faith meets somewhere in the middle, actually, and say we are individuals. And we all have our own rights and responsibilities. But we're all also obliged to take care of each other. And it's communitarianism, isn't it? There's a central ground there.

And I think with most arguments, there is a bit of a nuance. And the faith provides the nuance for societal issues. And I think that's one of the problems with our societies. Even on the left, it's all about me. It's all about identity, who I am. And it's just constant focus on the self. That just ultimately means you're going to become very miserable. Yeah, it's just what it's narcissism, isn't it?

We see that everywhere. That's what the whole trans movement is. That's what a lot of these issues that are arising at the moment is that people are putting themselves at the center of their own universes. They have no accountability. They have nothing higher than themselves to humble them. So of course, everything just gets blown out the window. People are very miserable, very unhappy, and mental health crisis is shooting through the roof. All right. Well, so we've got a ton of questions on locals. So usually we just do two and put them out on locals only, but instead we'll

do a bunch of locals. And we've had some super chance. I've seen that. Thanks, Anton. So this one is from Short Bird. And she says, I'm going to do her question. question in reverse order because the question is fairly interesting and provocative perhaps but she also she also says just wanted to say that although my ideas on aspects of life differ massively from calvin's i really like him and wish him all the best he comes across as a very decent man wrong i know but she does say why does calvin not believe in women being ordained well what have you got against birds make yeah it's not in the bible the christian faith is based on the bible if it's not in the bible that it shouldn't be happening.

People try to make it about equality and human rights and all that kind of stuff, but it's not about that. The Bible says that we are all equal, but that doesn't mean we're the same. We're very different. The rules between men and women are very different. We've seen that in recent years,

as we've seen more and more men transition into women and just destroy them at sports because we're physically stronger. There are physiological differences. There are physiological different differences between men and women. But hold on, how does that relate to this? Because Christ chose men to be his bishops, to be his apostles.

That was a very active choice. Christ chose when he came to work, when he became man and connor. He chose when to be. He chose how to be. Everything was on purpose. And he had very important women in his life, the Blessed Virgin Mary. You know, he didn't say to her, you will be the first pope.

He chose Peter. There's a reason behind that. Okay. So the next question is actually a very good one from Clank. He says, or they say, how should Christians today find communities of people who aren't ideologically biased and are open to intellectual discussions? Does this mean expanding your church beyond London? Well, so the first part of the question, turn off the internet. The internet is the devil's playground. The internet is why we are so. siloed and tribalised and so set against each other because we find our own little group.

We find people that are like us, think like us. We interact in that little echo chamber. I'm talking about the right as much as the left on this because we find a comfort zone. And we're not used to engaging with people that are different to us anymore. Whereas the answer is to go to church. You've got young and old, black and white, male, female. It's the hub of the community. It's your next-door neighbours who might be in an entirely different line of work to you from

from an entirely different background. That's what's important. That's where you get diversity. Just go to good old-fashioned church, turn off the internet. I know I'm saying this on a broadcast on the internet. Don't turn it off, stay right here. But to the second part, do I need to go outside of London? I think I'll probably start very local.

I don't even think I'll stream at first, because I just want people to come and be, at least to be centered in a place. Eventually I might do some broadcast as well, but we'll see. And Bloody Skies on Local says, is the reason for the creep of wokeness in the Church of England anything to do with them now having to hire or not sack agnostic or atheist vickers.

He says, it was rather surreal having a conversation with the vicar that conducted my father-in-law's funeral about his lack of faith at the village pub afterwards. That makes me so sad. It really does. No vicar should, I mean, if they do have a faith crisis, they should see their spiritual director. They should not be putting that onto the parishioners.

They're there to preach about God. They're there to tell people that God is true. God loves them and God is here and present with them, an ever-living God. So to suggest that that vicar is having a crisis, he needs to seek help elsewhere, that's inappropriate. It makes me very sad to hear that. I mean, doesn't that just say a lot, though,

about the state that the church is in, where you've got a vicar who doesn't even believe in what he's saying? So what's the point? I know. I feel like you can get by, if you don't believe, if you are agnostic or even atheists, you can get by in the church in the world. It's when you're affirming the faith that they get worried. it's back to front

it is completely back to front it's just very very sad okay so next question is from Cabesa de raccio which means easy for you to say

yeah it is it is it is easy what does it mean it means empty head okay and they say and the question is who is your favorite church father and why

and what would they say about the culture today. Well, one of them would be Augustine. I don't think he'd have anything nice to say about this, probably because he started the Church of England. Aquinas was very anti-woke on a lot of these issues. I mean, read any church father, and they're very affirming in their Catholicity,

in their Christianity, and very counter-cultural. Benedict, the Benedictines were, you know, the first proper... monastic movement of living outside of the world. So we're called to be in the world but not of the world. And they were like, you know, we need to set something separate. So we need to be that candle in a dark window ledge that people can see and get attracted to. I know that there is an alternative to the nasty or horrible secular world around them.

So I don't know which one would be my favorite, but there are lots that are inspiring. But of course, I try not to have heroes because when you have heroes, you fall into idolatry. if there's one person's to look to it's Jesus Christ Very on brand I was going to say Calvin Do you think the church has got an image problem In that

If you make fun of another religion That is seen as punching down But we see it with stand-up For instance if I went out and did a lot of jokes On the stage about Islam Things are going to get quite spicy To put it mildly and not just from Muslim people,

there's going to be from people in the audience. Whereas if I go on stage and do a lot of jokes about Christianity, I mean, that's... It's kind of hacked, to be honest at this point. You wouldn't really get many laughs because it's been punched at so much. It's a bit Nish Kumar, isn't it?

It's a bit, you know, unfunny. The bread rolls, would be out. No, I think you're right. It's that's self-flagellation. It's because we are a Christian country. You know, we're anti-British, we're anti-Christian, and that's appropriate, that's acceptable because we've got such a terrible history.

We need to move beyond it. I understand there's probably been a few years of over-correction because we have had some horrors in our past, but we've reached a point now we've got to come back and the pendulum's got to swing the other way and we've got to be proud to be British and proud to be Christians, not too proud because it is, but enough to be supportive and patriotic. Yeah.

Someone called Woman on our local, so she's a bigot, says party time. imagine that it's a party would you rather be enjoying yourself with 10 atheists from the free speech union or 10 Christians from the higher echelons of the Church of England? Easy, free speech union every time that's what I do most of the time

with free speech union people. There we go. Francis, do you want to do another super chat? Well, I could have some more local questions. So let's see what we have got. We have got, okay, got some more coming in. Let's have this.

So this is Ikiyke, and he says, Neil Marxists are going after freedom of speech and freedom of conscience. Shouldn't the Church of England be worried that freedom of religion is next? It's a great question. And then the second part of that question is,

are you worried, Calvin? I'm very worried. I really am. With the conversion therapy bill, they want to ban prayer. Freedom of religion is going downhill. Conversion therapy is already legal. You know, electrocution is already legal.

rape, corrective rape is already illegal. The only things that are additional really are therapy and prayer. And once they are in the legislative, once they are laws in our land, they will be used against us. You know, at the moment, if you have a young man, for example, who say, I want to live a life in Christ, I want to live a celibate life until I'm married to a woman and I'm being, having impure thoughts. Please pray for me. That would be illegal under the bill. it would be illegal for the person to pray for them.

Likewise, if you're an adult who's married... Wait, why is that illegal? Because it's conversion. That's what this bill is. It's about not being able to support people in conversion, whether it's sexuality or transgenderism, because it's seen as coercive. Ah, right, okay, I see.

So they don't want people to be persuaded. Like, this is a mass thing that's going on. We're going around persuading people not to be... Actually, we're sending them straight off. to get their bits chopped off and converted or giving them puberty blockers, which I think should be illegal, because there is no such thing as a trans child. If an adult wants to make a decision to do something with their body,

that's up to them. But for a child, they should be supported and loved and encouraged by their parents, and to have their body mutilated is an offence. It's neglect and or abuse. But anyway, we have reached the point where freedom of worship is being threatened in this country. Already in Scotland, they had that bill. I forgot what it was called now. but you could be reported for a hate crime

in your own home for preaching the gospel if someone finds it offensive. This is the way we're going. It is incredibly worrying. I find that bill shocking. I find that bill absolutely shocking. And the thing that I find possibly even more shocking is that there hasn't been a massive ferrory about it.

Well, even worse than that, a load of people signed a petition against it saying, look, these are the dangers of it. You're going to make it illegal for people to for people or even illegal for someone to give someone therapy if they choose to take it. The church, a vast majority of the hierarchy of the church, petitioned against the petitioners, saying you guys are bigots and xenophobes and racists and homophobes and transphobes. It's like, no, we're standing up for scripture and you guys are actively opposing us.

What is going on? Well, Calvin, very much on that point, and this is a conversation that we often have in here with our Chris O friends. EBL, who's a big supporter of us, she says, How does the Church of England stay relevant in the society that has changed measurably over the last 50 years in terms of social norms and how people view themselves and the world around them? Where does it stand firm and where does it need to bend? And this is the conversation we often have because some Christians have a very sort of that hard line interpret like you perhaps. This isn't in the Bible. This isn't in the Bible.

But the church does change over time. I think we'd all recognize that the church now is not the church of a thousand years ago, right? For shame. So you actually think we should go back a thousand years? Relevance is irrelevant. It's not our job to be relevant to the secular world around us because, like I said, progress isn't linear. So we make mistakes. You know, Rome fell in the end.

And I feel sometimes it feels like we're at the fall of Rome again in our Western society, where we're up is down, bad is good, right is wrong. So we shouldn't be chasing these norms. We should not be trying to be relevant. We should be static. We should say this is the faith passed down to us from the apostles. who Christ chose, this is our universal Catholic faith, apostolic faith, and we are here to evangelise based on scripture, not based on anything else. And we do worship, we still worship things, but we worship completely different things now, don't we?

In particular, the acquirement of material goods and possessions, people believe that if they have wealth, success, particularly financial success, that somehow it's going to make them happy. Send us a super chat. Yeah, please do. Maman was in the Bible. Nothing is new. We've seen it all before.

All of these issues were in the Bible. You know, if Jesus Christ came to us today, he'd be cancelled. The church wouldn't accept him. They'd think he was too controversialist. They'd think he was too outspoken and bigoted and all of these things. They'd probably shout, crucify him, crucify him, just as they did 2,000 years ago. John Bryce says, do you think workism is now irresistible, sorry, or are there effective strategies for pushing back against their ideology?

I see lots of people describing wokeism, but few discussing how to actually resist it. You know, I'll say the same thing I said last time I came on. We all need to stand up. We don't need to stick our heads about the parapets. Some of them will get chopped off, but that's a risk we have to take. We have to be marty for the cause. And if we all stand up, they cannot cancel all of us.

But until we stand up, they're going to keep pushing back. And they are the vocal minority, and they're the loudest voice in the room. So we need to drown them out because we are the majority. Well, I agree with you completely, and there was a question from somebody on locals about how you became motivated or what inspires you to do that, to stick your neck out. Just had enough, really had enough. Even when I was teaching, I was writing publicly about the left-wing indoctrination that I was seeing. And, you know, there are other people that call themselves a secret teacher or this and not wanted to disclose who they were.

I thought, no, I want to own this. I truly believe what I'm seeing in schools is wrong, and I'm going to put my name on it. And that's what led to be to where I am today. And we see, of course, there's this big Twitter account, lips of TikTok or whatever, which exposes what a lot of, in America, teachers are saying and what they're teaching their kids. Is that some of, I mean,

probably wasn't quite as extreme when you were teaching, but is that the type of thing that you were starting to become aware of? Absolutely, it's harbournes. But I think if parents saw what was being taught in schools, they'd be going to nuts. But, of course, we just send our kids off and trust it's all going to know right. It's going to be rosy dory, and they're just going to teach them the ABCs and the ones plus ones equals twos. But no, two plus two now equals five.

And the teacher is telling the kids about their own sexuality and what underwear they're wearing today. And I'm not even making this up. This is a legitimate example. What underwear they're wearing? Yeah, there was a teacher recently that wore a male teacher that wore ladies underwear, and he started a club talking about sexuality and he wanted to come out to his kids. Was it pansexual? One of these made-up sexuality is any.

You know, ten years ago, if someone had done that, whatever their sexuality, you go, that's a nonce? You know what? Yeah, it is a non-s. It is a non-s. It's grooming. This is a big problem in the left. There's a lot of grooming going on. All of this sexualizing young kids is grooming.

We used to think it was illegal and nasty and wrong, and now somehow we're supporting it as progressive. And this is what I mean when I say progressism isn't literally linear. Because we're seeing, you know, what was that play that Lawrence helped get cancelled? Oh, the family sex show. Yeah, the family sex show. Those words should not go together. it's demon. Come on. The church has a big

presence. Careful now. Sorry, Calvin wouldn't want to be associated with any sort of. What was Cornwall? There's going to be at least two people having a meltdown about this. I'm going to get someone messaging me. That's all right. This question is, it's a little bit more left field. It's from the King's Lobotomy and he says, can you ask...

Some great names today, but... Yeah. Can you ask Calvin to talk about his walkout on the now famous Oxford Union vegan speech. Oh my gosh. So I'm all for open debate and I'm all for disagreeing well. But at some point you have to say this is lunacy. There is no common ground to be made here. And this was what happened.

So this was Michaela Peterson. I went there to support her. She was debating. She's a massive carnivore. She was debating a favourite eating meat against some vegans. And most of the arguments were sound. I don't agree with them, but there were sound arguments. And this woman got up.

I can't remember her name. where she's from. But she said that eating meat is colonialist, white supremacy, racist, sexist. Is there another is another is, I missed out? There's always another one. But it was all of them. And I was like, cannot engage with you. This is not realistic. This is not, you're living in a fantasy world. There's nothing to be gained from listening to this lunacy. I just got up and walked out. I spoke to Jordan Peterson afterwards. He was laughing his head off at it. But obviously, he had to stay in support Michaela. But it's just, there has to come

the point we say enough is enough. I'm not going to entertain your lunacies anymore. You know, you're not in the real world. And that was one of those examples. Yeah. And Cameron, we've got a question from our big supporters, Res and Pez, and I think it's she that says, Mr. Robinson, will atheists be welcoming your church? Would be quite happy to debate the Old Testament teachings as an ex-born-again Christian. Now, I warn you, Ronell is pretty feisty. Oh, lovely. Everyone is welcoming my church. Church should be welcoming. and inclusive to everybody. What about non-Christians?

Everybody, but they're welcome to be changed through an experience with Christ. That is true inclusivity. It's not about watering down my values, or the church's values, or Christian values to make anyone else feel comfortable or to not offend people. They are welcome to come,

but they're welcome to be joined and changed through an experience in Christ. A Minecraft, by the way, says, please just send love and support for our Calvin. You're like the NHS, man. Every Thursday, we're going to bang some pots and pans for you. And punished opinions as well with the two quid superchats. What of the problem of apostolic succession in church?

I have no idea what that means. That is another issue. So the way that Christ chose the apostles, because it's a faith written in tradition. So the Bible is the Word of God, but the Bible comes from tradition. It comes from many different stories put together. And it was told, it flew word of mouth before it was written down.

And as the apostles started to die out, we started to get these things written down. but the apostles have handed this tradition down to us in form of the Bible and other practiced in tradition. Now, when someone is consecrated a bishop, it's said that it's handed down from the apostle to the next person to the next person to the next person to the next person. That's the lineage. That's apostolic succession. And that's broken when we ordain a woman because it's not a valid order because women can't be priests or bishops. There's plenty of leadership rules for women. being a priest in persona Christi, in the person of Christ, in the person of Christ, is not legitimate and not valid.

Therefore, apostolic succession is being broken in this country. And then if a woman bishop ordains a man, that man would not be validly ordained in many people's eyes. So it's quite problematic. Well, there we go. I think we'll wrap up there. Calvin, thanks for coming back. All the best to you with what you're doing and the new church. And I think there's a lot of people who are looking for something that's untainted by ideology at this point.

Because the one thing I suppose I would imagine is even in the way that you conduct yourself, you would be welcoming of people with different opinions, and you wouldn't be excluding them. And I think there's quite a lot of people who there's an appetite for that, let's say. There's an appetite for it in terms of conversations on YouTube, and I'm sure there's an appetite for that in terms of the religious space as well. So all the best of luck to you. I'm sorry you've had this experience, but I know you'll come. out of it stronger and better so thanks for coming back on the show and we look

forward to seeing you again and thank you guys for watching and listening we'll be back with raw in literally a couple of hours the first one since we've been away so we'll see you in a couple of hours take care and see you soon good bless