TRIGGERnometry - Cancelled Comedian Speaks Out - Nick Dixon

Episode Date: October 11, 2021

Nick Dixon is a stand-up comic and comedy writer. Find Nick on Twitter @nickdixoncomic and watch his fantastic set at Comedy Unleashed here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crhvwfX8CLQ Get TICKETS to TRIGGERnometry Live with Peter Hitchens here: https://leicestersquaretheatre.ticketsolve.com/shows/873620658 Join our exclusive TRIGGERnometry community on Locals! https://triggernometry.locals.com/ OR Support TRIGGERnometry Here: https://www.subscribestar.com/triggernometry https://www.patreon.com/triggerpod Bitcoin: bc1qm6vvhduc6s3rvy8u76sllmrfpynfv94qw8p8d5 Buy Merch Here: https://www.triggerpod.co.uk/shop/​​​ Advertise on TRIGGERnometry: [e-mail] Join the Mailing List: https://www.triggerpod.co.uk/sign-up/​​​ Find TRIGGERnometry on Social Media: https://twitter.com/triggerpod​​​ https://www.facebook.com/triggerpod​​​ https://www.instagram.com/triggerpod​​​ About TRIGGERnometry: Stand-up comedians Konstantin Kisin (@konstantinkisin) and Francis Foster (@francisjfoster) make sense of politics, economics, free speech, AI, drug policy and WW3 with the help of presidential advisors, renowned economists, award-winning journalists, controversial writers, leading scientists and notorious comedians. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Great to be back at London's foremost Nazi comedy night. I don't even follow certain sections of the media, but this is where all the hip-young Nazis hang out. So that's cool. If Hitler came back, this is what it'd do, by the way, to start a monthly comedy night on a Tuesday. So it'd warm me up with a few dick jokes, and bam, hit you with the juice off.

So... Hello, and welcome to Trigonometry. I'm Francis Foster. I'm Constantine Kisson. And this is a show for you if you want honest conversations with fascinating people. A brilliant guest to date is a comedian and a friend of us from Comedy Circuit Days. Nick Dixon, welcome to the show. Good to be here. How's it going?

It's great to have you on. Listen, we obviously know you very well, but for anyone who doesn't know you, tell everybody a little bit about who you are, how are you where you are, what has been the journey through life that leads you to be sitting here talking to us? Wow, the journey. Okay, I'm Nick Dixon, I'm a comedian, and I do things like GB News, write for Spiked, a talk radio, all the things that the comedy world hates. I do them all.

And the journey to know. I just, I started doing comedy 10 years ago, doing open mics like everyone else with mentally ill people. And then I, um... And then you moved up to the circuit with mentally old people. With other mentally old people getting paid slightly more. Yeah. Yeah.

And that's how it works. And now I'm here today. What a journey. With mentally ill people. Yeah, right. Exactly. So yeah, it's just different levels, isn't it? But yeah, that's about it.

I mean, you know, that's the whole story. I do comedy and other bits. Short podcast, wasn't it? Nailed it. But listen, the reason we wanted to get you on, I haven't been doing any comedy for last two years. Francis is working up towards doing it all, but again, hasn't really been doing the circuit.

Right. And because of that, that distance, I think, has given me, like, a layman's perspective almost, where I'm, like, looking on Twitter or turning on the TV once in the Blue Moon and seeing the new version of the Mass Report and just going like, the question I think a lot of our audience have in their mind

is like, why is comedy on TV so shit? Yeah, well, I know what you mean. There's this divide now isn't there between. I'll tell you what, there was a really interesting thing the other night. We were doing a comedy on-leash pilot. Do you already know what comedy unleashed is? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so.

But it's worth it because we've got fans in America. It's a free speech comedy night in London. Yeah. Done. Yeah, it's a free. And we were doing it in East London. in Bethnal Green. It's quite interesting. We were filming a pilot to try and get on the TV. And on the same night, by chance, I found out it's by pure chance, they were filming live

at the Apollo in West London over in Hammersmith. And I was like, this is the divide and live comedy. So you've got the divide between the BBC, which is, you know, some of the comedians are good, but the criticism would be why are people on there? Are they good enough to be on there? And then you've got us over here trying to do our thing. And there's criticism of both of them. But that's this weird divide in live comedy where like you say, people think comedy on BBC is a bit rubbish. So we're trying to do something different.

But to be fair, I'm trying to be really fair. There are actually some good comedians on that as well. I wasn't saying there aren't brilliant comedians on the BBC. What I'm saying is the standard of some of the things that you see on there is very low. Way too low for a production with that sort of budget, with access to every comedian that they could possibly want. They don't seem to be picking the best.

is all I'm saying, in every position. It's like a football team that's got a great striker, but the defence is useless, for example. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, I know what you mean. I've been in huge trouble for suggesting that we should just pick comedians based on their ability alone as individuals.

I got in trouble for that. I know, it's a crazy idea, isn't it? That's controversial now. But yeah, I suppose, yeah, I mean, look, I try and stay out of it now. I just do my thing. But, yeah, there is a criticism that the BBC are not picking the best people

because they're using other criteria to select them. What do you think the reason is? I'm being very cautious. That's what I'm saying. When I was in the game, right, I sort of had an idea of what that was. But it's been two years. I genuinely don't know. All I see in my own experience, and this is, again,

maybe I was a little bit too full-on when I said, oh, it's shit and whatever. Some of it is shit. But my main thing is, I'm seeing people on TV that when I used to run a comedy club would email me in to ask for an open spot and I would say you're not quite ready. Yeah. And I'm seeing those people now on television. Yeah. Yeah. They haven't really improved. Right. So the question I think for me is how has that happened. But for an ordinary person who just watches TV and thinks that's what comedy is, I think they're asking themselves, how is this happening? Yeah. Yeah. And it's obviously because there are

other criteria. There might be other reasons they get picked other than their ability. Then they've got the right agent, you know, they're the right flavor of the month type thing, whatever the reasons are. And I'm sort of, you can tell, I'm slightly reluctant to speculate on them because I got cancelled for doing almost exactly that quite recently. It's still quite recent. So I'm still feeling that pain. So I'm kind of being a bit cautious on saying what the reasons are, but we can all imagine what they may be, but they're not always who the best comedians are. Some of them are, and then they get through. And then you complain if you complain about it, they're like, well, what about this guy? And they cite one person who is actually good. And you're like,

Oh, yeah, fair enough. So, you know, you sound bitter talking about it. And I'm not busy because I'm not even trying to get on that stuff. But yeah, there's definitely a low lowering of quality on the BBC. And they've seen it in the viewing figures. You know, Apollo used to be a big deal, didn't it, with Michael McIntyre. Everyone watched it. Now it's something that's on BBC 2, isn't it? And barely anyone watches it. Well, certainly the viewing figures have gone through the floor. Why do you think there are certain acts who are genuinely legitimately brilliant that we see week in, week out, and they do very, very well, but television isn't interested in them. They don't even get a sniff of it. Yeah, they're not seen as sort of viable. It tends to be older acts who have been going on time. They're very good, but they're not new.

They're not cool and they're not got the right agent, and they're not the right, you know, They might not be diverse, whatever it is. So that's what it comes down to mainly, isn't it? And a lot of people notice this difference between UK and America. Where in America, they seem to respect comics who have been going a long time, who are really good, and we don't have that. We just don't have that. We don't actually respect stand-up as a medium in this country.

It's not the end of the world. I'm not going to write an open letter, but we just don't respect it. We've seen with Norm MacDonald, people like that, we've seen Louis C.K. before the incident. The respect Bill Burr, the respect that people have. have for comedians in America, for stand-up. It's an American medium. So they have massive respect for stand-ups who've been going a long time and like really good and like killers. And it's all about, are you a killer in the clubs? We just don't have that here. We don't

have any respect for that, I don't think. And why do you think that is? Why do you think we don't respect the people who have been doing it for don'tkeys years who then are just master craftsmen at what they do? Yeah, I don't know. I generally just think it's we just don't understand the medium. In America, there's a tradition going from like Richard prior and onwards, this kind of confessional medium. It's an American medium. We just don't have that. I don't know where, stand up in this country. I don't know where it comes from. It's a mixture of like music hall, working men's clubs.

And then there's like the Oxford satire tradition. There's these different traditions, but we just don't seem to respect stand-up. I don't think we really know what it is. I don't think TV, but they discovered what it is with Michael McIntyre. I don't think they really get it. And I don't think they get what great comedy is. And actually the audience would love to see these people we've all seen in the club. who smash it, who are older, probably.

They'd love to see them, the audience, but they just don't get a chance because TV people are only interested in who the new cool person is. It's interesting because we talk about representation a lot, and we were just talking about this year in the studio before you came, but actually, like, a comedian

that nobody watching this will have heard of, like Jeff Innocent is an older white guy, right? He represents way more people than a Russian immigrant or whoever else. But me being on that would be considered diversity, whereas him wouldn't or would be considered representation. Do you see what I'm getting that? There's a big constituency there

that I would argue is probably underserved by what's happening at the moment. Yeah, yeah, because, I mean, reality is it's something like an 80-something percent white country. He would probably talk to loads of people in a country, but yes, but he wouldn't be allowed on, probably. So that's why we get things like other channels, isn't it? Probably like G.B. News and all these other channels

because the BBC is arguably not serving people, even though that's their job and we're all giving them money to do it. Right? We pay for it, don't we? I mean, unless you just don't pay, which we won't go into. But, you know, that's why... You realize this is going on the internet. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I pay.

I pay. I'm saying there's other people in the country, I've heard, you just don't let anyone in when they come to the door. But actually, well, people know the country... If the people are watching all the countries, would they even understand the license fee? It's such a bizarre thing to try and explain, isn't it, to other countries? It's like, well, basically, they come around and they make you pay to watch TV. You're like, I'm sorry? They make it, yeah, and you have to pay it. You have to pay it,

yeah, even if you don't want to watch it, yeah, yeah. Isn't that weird? It's like, we have to pay for this TV channel, or we used to be you could go to jail, allegedly. I'm not sure they've got that anymore, but there's a big fine, isn't there? Well, yeah, there is. And then, you know, and they always end up carting some old granny off to the, you know, to the court and putting her up there because she hasn't had the money to pay in the last two years. Yeah, I just find that bonkers. I mean, you're trying to explain that to people. You have to pay this.

And what's really extra weird is that all the comedians and people on the BBC then berate the audience for being Brexit voting scum. And it's like, they're paying your wages. Isn't that strange? And are you in favour of the B? Well, I've got to be so careful because there's still a very tiny chance

that might get on one day, but I almost certainly won't at this point. Am I in favour of it? I think it, I'm not in favour of the licence for you, model. I think it's anachronistic and sort of quasi-communist. It doesn't really make any sense. So, I mean, I don't mind the BBC, but I don't see how the license fee can work in 2021. I don't think it can work in 2021. When you look at all the different competitors, when you look at Amazon, when you look at Netflix, when you look at all these different platforms, producing

really great content. And, you know, the BBC still does some things which are very good. But you look at the vast majority of stuff, taking comedy as an example, and it's low quality. Right, right. And the idea that you have to pay for it now, it just seems out of touch, like you say. Yeah, you've got Netflix, Amazon. Yeah, so I think they'll be in trouble. And that's why you've got GB News. Now you've got Talk TV coming out. You've got other people trying to compete. How do you feel about those channels? Well, we've both been on GB News. I like GB News. You know, and there's things that I disagree, you know, that they've done that I disagree with. But there's things that every organization has done that I disagree with. Why do you think that everybody in comedy sees the the start of GB News as the coming of the Fourth Reich or the Fifth Reich, or whatever it is. It's bizarre, isn't it? If you look at... Yeah, Brexit was the Fourth Reich. Yeah, yeah. We're on to the Fifth now. Or the sick. Oh, I don't know.

Isn't that crazy? So you've both been on? Yeah. Yeah. I'm a regular on there. Are you? Yeah, and I make sure to tweet it as well so they all fucking know about it in the industry. Oh, good. I've seen you on there once on, I think Mark's show. Yeah, yeah. I've been on quite a few times as well. It's funny, isn't it? the outrage about GBC News and all the boycotting and all this stuff, it doesn't make any sense.

If you actually look at what it is, it's actually just an incredibly liberal channel, isn't it? It's got like free speech, it's got massive diversity. Isn't it just incredibly liberal? Well, if you look at the old school meaning of the term liberal, then I would argue that, yes, it is incredibly liberal. They have, you know, they try and have a priority of views on there. They have a diversity of presenters.

You know, you get all different genders, races, et cetera, et cetera. Yeah, yeah. I'll turn on. I'll be like, I'll turn on to the dreaded GB News, and it's three gay guys and a trans person discussing like vaccine passports openly. I'm like, what's the problem here, guys? What have I missed? It's like, this is not this far right channel. You know, and I actually think that they kind of know this. This is one of my little theories is they know that it's not actually that bad,

but a certain part of society just screams loudly. If the Overton window tries to get pushed an inch to another side, you know what I mean? They're like, no, no, no. And they scream that loudly because they don't want to. any change was actually, if it was really, I almost think if it was really bad, it would be allowed. If you notice how people like Richard Spencer seem to be like allowed, like they stay on Twitter, these quite extreme figures, whereas something like GB News, which is actually not extreme at all, it was just meant to be an alternative to the BBC that isn't quite meeting its remit.

They all scream about it. I almost think it's because it's quite moderate that it's actually more of a threat. Do you see what I mean? Yeah. So, you know, because it's more mainstream, because it actually might appeal to a whole section of society who feel that they've been undeserved to actually have pretty mainstream opinions, it's more of a credible threat and therefore it's more likely to be attacked. That's why I think, because why else?

I mean, if it's got these terrible viewing figures, they all keep pointing out, oh, GPDOs, no one watches it, and it's terrible, it's like, why are you talking about it every day then? Do you know what I mean? If it's just rubbish and ignored, why are you constantly tweeting about it? I mean, I also think that... You're tweeting because you're on it.

I mean, it's also the fact that I think outrage is just, it's rewarded in the current climate. If you're outraged about something, it's going to get the views, the clicks, the whatever's. And obviously, G.B. News had some issues with the launch, to put it mildly. So that would have contributed. But listen, let's go back to talking about you a little bit, because you mentioned being cancelled, so to speak. What happened? What did you say, Nick? Did you say that we need more Nazi comedy or? That was it, yeah.

Yeah, I made a big push for Nazi comedy. Where every punch on is Zidjors. Yeah, yeah. They'll just clip that out now. All my haters are like, see? What I did, I did a terrible, terrible thing, guys. Someone messaged me. A fan, if you like, someone tried to get me on a gig, which I didn't ask for.

But they just said out of the kindness of their own heart. Then they sent me the message and said, oh, I tried to get you on this gig. But here's what the guy said. And the guy had said, something like, I like Nick, or I'm aware of Nick. He said I'm aware of, but quite a big difference. He exists. I believe, I believe he exists. But we're not really booking too many straight white men.

And he said something like, I should have got the exact phrase, but he said something like, for one of a better, not that we're going, he said, we're kind of looking for the opposite. And he goes, and when I say opposite, I don't necessarily mean a gay, disabled, black woman in a wheelchair or something like that. This was it, this was not my quote, by the way. This was his. So he goes, we're looking for the opposite, and we're not really looking for that.

And I just thought, this is a bizarre message and kind of funny. So I just shared it with all identifying information taken out, right? So you couldn't find out who this guy was. I just crossed out any possible thing, because I'm not in the business of starting pylons against people. So I did that. And I just put it like a very wry tweet. It was something like, I should get it right, but it was something like I dream of a day when I'll be judged on the content of my character, or at least the content of my content.

So it was a wry allusion to Martin Luther King. I always get it. But I thought this will get like 40 likes, which it did. And nothing of it, right? It's just a minor tweet. I was like, I received this pretty funny. You know, nothing. But then the Daily Express picked it up. It's just the, just the, sorry. Yeah, yeah, because you know how this goes. The Daily Express picked it up. And then I was like, oh, so I said a couple of things to them foolishly thinking, well, I'll just say something. And then, of course, it comes out in a crude sort of tabloidly way and like, well, I didn't mean it like that. And then, and it...

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Yeah, exactly, exactly. Straight white man complains that straight white men aren't getting straight white gigs or something like that. It was just something ridiculous. And I'm like, oh. And then I was like, oh, because I thought, should I do this? Nine times out of ten, I would say no, it's not worth it. Then I just thought, let's just see what happens.

Definitely found out the answer to that. So stuff happened. So then the telegraph getting touched me. And I'm like, oh, the telegraph now. And I'm like, I'm not going to talk to him. I'm just not going to talk to anyone. And my mate said, well, they'll just print it anyway, which they did. Then I get a message the next day, you're on the Jeremy Vine show.

I'm like, oh, it's on Jeremy Vine. But not saying, and they're defending you, which would have been the key piece of information. I just got, you're now on Jeremy Vine. So it's just escalating. And I'm going, oh, apparently they were defending me. And Jeff Norcott was on there, like alleged, defending me. So actually, both the papers and the show defended me. but yeah it was just this escalating thing

that I don't know if you've been in one of these things you probably have but they get out of control I have yeah you've been in one yeah you know how it just escalates and you're just thinking what now and you can't really handle it I didn't know how to handle it because you're just one person and the whole into suddenly the whole comedy industry is attacking me it's a national news story my tweet

it's upset and it just and you don't really know how to handle it I sort of had a stress response because how can your body really process what's going on and even though logically I'm like this is just happening on the internet and I had everything muted. Logically, that's the case. But sort of physiologically, I was sort of freaking out. It was hard for me to sleep and stuff

because it was like it was really stressful. Because I had comedians messaging me, are you okay? We ever had that? Are you okay? In a very different way. I saw the last interview on Trigonometry. Are you okay?

Are you sure? You used to be such a nice guy. Yeah, yeah. One guy messaged me. Then another friend of ours actually messily and I thought, this guy never asked if I'm okay. I won't even say it as well. I was like, this is, there must be a problem.

And another friend just goes, oh, it's just because I saw the Chortle piece. I'm like, the what? And I hadn't even read it. So actually, what I've admitted to mention, and I don't get two in the weeds of comedy, but there's this comedy website called Shortle. Blog.

Blog. There's a comedy blog called Shortle. I can tell you guys love it already. And everything was fine until they picked it up. So actually, everyone ignored that express piece. They completely ignored it. It was only when Shortel said, hey guys look at this idiot that we can attack now which was probably specifically done for that

purpose so then the whole comedy industry attacked me and then i got all the comedians saying are you okay and some quite big comedians attacked me including ones that had always been nice to and about my whole life and i got on with them one of them had even given me a nice quote about my comedy and then he threw me under the bus to nearly 400,000 people which i thought was interesting And this is someone who goes on about mental health awareness all the time. And even someone who admitted they were suicidal because their TV show got canceled and they got attacked a few years ago. And I'm like, but now you're doing it to me.

I'm like, that blows my mind that someone can do that. The lack of empathy. You know what I mean? From the hashtag Be Kind Brigade. So Nick, I don't really, I mean, I think for a lot of people watching, I don't think they really would understand what you do. done wrong there. You pointed out that somebody who books comedy had said, I know that Nick exists. I'm aware of him. I'm aware of him. And presumably that he's good at comedy. But I won't

book him because of his demographic characteristics. Right. Is that what they basically said? That's what they said. And you made people aware that that had happened. So what have you, what boundary of you cross there? Like, where's the right wing? bigotry in what you've done there is what I'm trying to get at. Right, right. And that's the interesting thing. No one has been else to ascertain what I did wrong. That's what I'm, and everyone's who, everyone normal who's looked at it like normal meaning not in comedy has looked it and gone, what did you actually do? And I've gone, great question. Great question. I talked about on Taurop Radio, Mark Dolan, he's like, what have you done? The only offensive part

comes from the promoter who's written gay, disabled woman in a wheelchair. It's like, you haven't said that. I'm like, I know. So it's like, what have I actually done? Mine was the old-fashioned liberal notion that we should be, we should be judges in individuals. Call me naive, right? But I was saying that if you had two gay comics on a bill, for example, let's say Andrew Doyle, Scott Capiro, just two examples we might know. I would never say, oh, it's two gay people. They can't be on the bill because I would just see them as in the completely different acts, right? Well, they're completely different styles. Right. So it never occurred to me. I just think, well, let's put them both on. I just say put everyone on. I don't,

who cares about that? The individual style is what matters in comedy because it's it's about the individual persona, right? That's what I thought. So that's all I would. ever saying, that is the liberal position, but that now gets you called a bigger online by a lot of people. Especially comedians. Yeah. It was shocking. I muted, like I say, as much of it as I could, but one sentence, I did see one thing that said, yes, Nick Dixon is a bigger, but, and I was like, I'm sorry, what? And it's just like, I couldn't believe it because I'm just going, that's someone defending it as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know, there was a but, yeah. And it was like, But the sentence almost didn't make sense to me.

After a few days of not sleeping and looking at all this stuff, you're going like, almost the words didn't even make sense to me because you see your name taken so out of context. And everyone knows, I'm just a nice guy, everyone knows that. And I'm seeing this going, Nick Dixon is a big, I'm just going, who is this guy? Nick Dixon.

So it was so divorced from reality, and it got so out of hand. But I was like, what was bigoted in what I said? I just couldn't figure it out. I was saying, let's just base it on merit and let everyone, Like I made it, maybe as a crass analogy, it was like, look at the England football team. It's merit and it ends up very diverse naturally because it's merit. That was my argument. But I just don't see what's so bad about that.

So let's talk what we're actually talking about, Nick, because there's something underneath this conversation that we all know is there. Okay. And we don't want to address, which is what you really pointed out is comedy is not a meritocracy, much like the media, much like anything else. And people's identity has become an important part of whether you're considered fit for a particular job. Was that, is that a fair description?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And you pointed this out, and I think there are two things going on, and tell me what you think about this. Number one is there are a lot of people who've brought into the idea that because people like you, who look like you, not like you, but who look like you, used to be on the TV quite a lot.

That now means that you should not be given opportunities and other people who don't look like you who didn't have opportunities in the past now should be given opportunities. So there's a group of people who just think we need to flip the discrimination that used to happen, right? Number one. Number two, there's also a lot of comedians who do look like you, but most comedians look like you, let's be honest, because blokes tend to be more attracted to comedy and blah blah, blah as a career who know this is happening, who feel bad about what's happening, but they have spent

their whole career pretending it doesn't exist. And so when you say there is discrimination, which is what you're really saying, people are being picked not only on their skill set, they then feel like, well, I've been suppressing this shit my whole life, and this guy has now said it, and now he makes all of us look bad because we've all been suppressing it this whole time. And they get angry at that too. That's my interpretation. So you've got these two groups, which both are angry with you. The first group is angry with you for pointing out that discrimination is probably not a good thing, old-fashioned. I know. And the other one is angry because they've been pretending this whole time that what's happening is right. And you've kind of gone, it isn't. Right. So there's a, yeah, there's a few layers in that. You're right. Well, one is the fact that you can make the argument that you've, you've pointed out there of it's been one way now we need to redress the balance. And that's fine. You can make the argument. I was making the different argument. But you can actually make the argument without calling me a bigot and a shit comic, I think, because, you know, that's neither here nor there, whether I'm any good or not.

or what my views are. You can make that argument. That's fine. Just make it calmly. So I don't necessarily, I think that's fine if that's what you believe. The second point is, is more sort of complex, which is the people who have known it was like that for years. So the people that attacked me, one comic sort of mocked me and referenced the fact that there are lots of straight white men on TV. And he listed a series of people who have been on since the 90s. I'm like, yeah, mate, I know you're on the TV. You're a millionaire. It's well done. His defense was, well, we're doing well, It's like, yeah, what happened is there was all these straight white men on TV. There was probably too many of it.

It was just them. They, if anyone, were the ones keeping other people out. Now they say, right, now we've got to have diversity. So a generation of people of my generation, it's like, no, we can't have you now. But they're still keeping all the old white guys. They haven't gone anywhere. It's kind of like if the England football team still had Gary Lineker in it. Do you know what I mean?

They're still all there. And they're like, no, we're keeping our spots. But now we're changing the rules. So those guys are very. very sensitive because they know that they're trying to keep hold of their spot, which I think is what you're implying. So they're the last people that want to change anything. And then, and then I, when it comes down to me pointing it out, I wasn't even really pointing out. I was merely reporting on something that had happened to me, which is a key thing as well.

I was just sharing something that had been sent to me. That was it, really. I wasn't even making this massive point. Then in the... Well, I mean, he did bring a Martin Luther King, Benz. So I read, but that was a joke. That was a joke. Remember jokes? It was a, it was a, It was at least a wry comment. You know, I wasn't seriously comparing it. Come on, man. I think you were making a point, which is a legitimate point to make. But I was making it in a light heart.

Yeah, of course. And then in the paper, it sounded more serious. The funny thing is, like, Nick Nixon just bittery, can't get work. It's like, guys, I left one of the best live agents in the country. I barely want to do gigs out of London. I've been desperate to not have work for ages. I've been refusing work because it's annoying to go to Leeds, but everyone's like, he's just bitter, he can't get work.

That's the accusation against, whenever you make a point like that, it's just immediately they attack you and say he's rubbish at comedy and he's bitter and he's a bigot. And the idea, by the way, that I'm calling me shit at comedy is a great insult. When I've done nearly 2,000 gigs, I've done gigs in Preston, Frog and Bucket. You don't come out of that thinking you're amazing. Do you know what I mean? No comic is just there thinking, well, I'm just amazing. Because you do so many hard gigs, you have a very realistic idea.

Like some days I think I'm amazing. If I have a great gig and the next day, I think I'm terrible. No, but you are a very good comic. There's not denying that. And we'll make sure we put a little clip of you at the top of the video. so people can see. You are a very good comic. Well, thanks, man. I mean, that's up to people to judge, but that is completely irrelevant to the argument,

I think. He's just shit. It's like, that's not really the point, guys. Anyway, and everyone knows it happens, the thing I pointed out. Yeah. Everyone knows it, whether you like it or not, agree with it. Everyone knows it happens. That's why I think people are so sensitive about it. Like, how can he admit this happens?

But everyone I know has had some incident where they've been refused something because of these other characteristics other than their ability. So why is it taboo then? Why is it taboo to then go, this thing that we all know happens, happens, but why is it that we, you know, that the moment someone makes a tweet about it, makes a comment about it, references it, they get shouted down, they get, you know,

piled on, all the rest of it. Why does that happen? Yeah, it's a great question. It's just because it's just, like you said, it's just a taboo topic, especially to say that you're white, it, it just, race is just such a taboo topic now, isn't it? You can't even say, well, it also, by the way, And the requisite self-awareness was lacking in the article I did. But no one cares about the plight of the straight white male comedian.

Let's be honest. Straight away, that's an absurd. It sounds ridiculous, doesn't it? Because it's not that high on the list of the world's problems. Like, guys, I'm struggling here as a straight white male comedian. When's my type? You know, it does sound ridiculous. And yet it is happening to loads of people.

But it's just a very unsympathetic plight to talk about. And the other thing that happens with me is people think, oh, well, he's from public school or grammar school. It's like, no, no, I went to a shit comprehensive state school in the north. But apparently people don't think that about me because I can talk properly or something. You know, they don't expect northerness to be at a read and stuff. So there's this extra level. This is what I realize.

There's this extra level. Everyone assumes I'm this thing I'm not. And Andrew Doyle has it all the time. He gets called a right-wing public school, straight white man who cut. He's like, he's a gay left-wing guy from a comprehensive school. So you get this image of me out. He's worked incredibly hard. Right.

To get academic qualifications, to become a great comedian. It's one of the hardest working people you ever meet. True, true, he is. And exactly, and I'm not. But I make some effort. But yeah, but there's this idea, and that's particularly unsympathetic if people think you're a sort of right-wing public schoolwork,

which I'm none of those things. Hey, KKK, do you like music? Yes. But only if it's on Balalaika and we have returned from successful day bear hunting. Okay. Music must only be played in group when we drink the blood of our enemies. Well, if you're interested in rock music, then Elite Vitria is a band for you. They're an alternative rock band that stand up against cancel culture and the creeping authoritarianism in society.

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a lot of people get piled on is if it's a, you know, people who come from, and they're not Oxford's educated, et cetera, et cetera. And if they question the narrative, it's somehow more acceptable to pile on. Yeah. Yeah, I do think there's an element of that. I think if you're just not really known, like I'm basically unknown, and so for a famous comedian to attack me, it's so easy, isn't it? It's just so easy.

And it doesn't lose anything. They gain a few virtue points from the industry or a few likes on Twitter. and they can destroy my week, and they can make my life a lot harder. But there's no loss for them because you're just beating up on an unknown person. It's bullying, basically. It used to be called bullying. That's all it is. But it's very easy, isn't it?

So why have we come to a place where bullying has become virtuous, where dogpiling someone, destroying their reputation, is now seen as a morally correct thing to do? When I was a primary school teacher, if kids did that, you'd be like, well, that's bullying. Yeah, I know. Carry on. Yeah, I know. That is the shocking thing. People can bully online while putting hashtag be kind and they're the good people. That really bothered me at the time. I was like, these are the good people allegedly. And they're just not. But it is, here's a really, this is me being really fair. It is quite easy to join a pylon on Twitter. And even accidentally, because after that happened to me, I was like, right, I'm going to get really strict about what I tweet to make sure I'm not anything like these people. I basically stopped tweeting.

because I realize the way the medium is, even if you quote tweet someone, even if you take a photo, some people maybe deserve it, Matt Hancock or someone, but even him, I was like, you know, government officials maybe deserve it,

but it's like, it's so easy if you just quote tweet someone and go, look at this idiot, but then if a thousand people have done that, that's going to be a very hard day for them, but you don't think about it at just two seconds. This sounds like some sort of advert now, doesn't it, for like, mental health awareness or something?

We should be playing like soft piano music under this. I'm like, guys, think about what you're tweeting. Yeah, make it black and white as well. Yeah, and I'll ask you. There'll be a picture of you just in the kitchen making it. We've all tweeted something.

But do we really think about it. Yeah. But you know what I mean? It's very easy to join. So I become ultra-aware of not being like that myself. And I'm not like that, but I don't even be 1% like that because these people are scum.

Come on, these be kind people. It just blows my mind. Like I said, it's comedian. I won't necessarily name. You can all do your research. But to go on about mental health awareness, I almost message him. I was like, what have I done to you?

Why did you do this? Because I was just so baffled because I've been nice to my whole car. I was like, why would you set 400,000, nearly 400,000 people on me? What do you think that's going to do to me? You know, I just, I almost messaged that. And then I just thought, nah, I'll just,

we'll have a charity boxing match one day. It's funny you mentioned boxing because the point I was just about to make is I was talking to somebody who's quite help in the publishing industry the other day. And I was asking them how they manage this sort of thing because in publishing is very common. for people to get piled on and people get told, well, we're not publishing this book

because it's got problematic opinions or whatever. And he made the point, which I thought was very astute, that people choose to get upset about different things. So he was saying, when we publish a book by a gender-critical feminist, right, people have a massive freak out, and they demand that that book is canceled and whatever. When we publish a book by Mike Tyson, a convicted rapist, no one says a word.

And I think your situation actually speaks very well to that point, which is people don't actually care that you've done something wrong in real life. What they care about is you've exposed the system that they support. You've exposed the ideological system that they are on board with. And you're pointing out the floor in it, Riley as you did, comedically as you did, highlights that the system is flawed. and that is dangerous, much more dangerous than being a convicted rapist in their mind. Did you see what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

You're threatening their ideology. Yeah. That's what it's all about. It's amazing, isn't it? That's such a big thing. Again, like the attacks on GB News. It's all an ideology. It's all, and that's why it's so serious and so hysterical.

Imagine they could just make their argument calmly, though. That would be interesting, wouldn't it? Just make the argument. I mean, but you're saying it, because I'm pushing the buttons of the... But what's underneath that? Why are they so vehement about that ideology? Well, my opinion is that their ideology is based on a lot of emotion,

a lot of we wish the world was perfect, or we need to do this and we need to do that. And they've talked themselves into doing a lot of things which are blatantly wrong and unfair, but they have to pretend that that's equity or whatever the word is nowadays. And so they can't calmly defend that because there is no rational defense for it.

The only defense for it is to scream and shout until anyone who opposes it either self-censors or gets cancelled. Right. And yeah, that's the weird thing about ideology, isn't it? You end up supporting the ideology for its own sake. Yeah. And then all the tenants that were supposed to go into it, thrown out the window.

So the whole idea must be compassion. Let's say it's the left-wing ideology. It must be based in things like compassion and empathy, especially for the underdog or the underclass or something. And then somehow that leads to attacking me online. How is that in line with that? What have I done? You know, I mean, just some unknown comedian from a state school.

And it doesn't make any sense. But yeah, it's all done in the name of, like, say, something like equity. Yeah, well, you are the enemy of the ideology. And the ideology will deliver compassion. Therefore, if you oppose it, you must be destroyed. And you deserve no compassion because you're threatening the worldview, the ideology. Amazing. Just with a little tweet about the comedy world.

It's mad, isn't it? Comedy world. You're a dangerous man, Nick. Yeah. It's so strange, isn't it? I know, like you said, like the audience probably don't care too much about the details of the comedy industry. has got very weird, hasn't it? Yeah. It used to just be comedy. You were funny or not.

And now it's this whole... Well, I suppose in England, since the 80s, it was... I suppose it was left wing, wasn't it? It was against Thatcher and stuff. But even then, it didn't seem anything like it is now. No, it doesn't seem that we have transgressive comedians anymore. You know, comedians on TV, you'd think to yourself, whoa, I can't believe they said that. If you take the American example, you know, someone like Chris Rock,

or Bill Burr, you know, you can name lots of American comedians. You can't name that many British ones that regularly get on TV that say transgressive things that come out against this ideology. Yeah, although even Chris Rock has gone on that kind of journey from really interesting, edgy comic in the 90s to this slightly woke, last special and is now pushing the vaccine. Whatever you think about the vaccine, he's now fully on board with the establishment, isn't he? So you could argue.

So if you go back to his 90s stuff, interesting, it'll say things like, I've got things I'm conservative about, I've got things I'm like Democrat about it, wouldn't even say that now. He wouldn't even dare say that, which is interesting. But yeah, we definitely don't have it. And you guys have even stopped doing it because of this. Is that right? No, Francis is going to carry it. This just takes up too much of my time. I'm working on a book now and whatever, but I might come back and do my own show. I'd never do the circuit again. And was it because of busyness, or was it because of you just couldn't fit into that world? I hated being on the circuit from the moment I set foot on it.

Right. Mainly because of the people. that you're surrounded by. I never had anything in common with them. But at the moment, it's just busyness, you know. And also, I did my Edinburgh show in 2019. It went very well. I was pleased with how it went. I kind of felt like I'd drawn that line.

I'd got to that stage, and I didn't have anything left to prove, really, to myself more than anything. And now with Trigonometry is a full-time job, the book I have to work on, it's taken a lot of my time. So I've just been focused on this. I might come back to it, you know.

Okay. And Francis, you're obviously working on your tour. I'm working on my tour. But also as well, I got sick of not being able to talk of what I wanted to talk about. To discuss a subject. So I wanted to discuss. I really just had enough of it. It got to the point where I just felt that I was self-censoring.

He's got a great 10 minutes on the Muslims. Yeah, exactly. I mean, it's just all banter, mate. There's some comics doing that. Nicholas DeSanto's doing that. Yeah. And Nicholas DeSanto ended up nearly getting fired from his job with the BBC as a result.

As a resolve, other comedians sending emails to his name out of this time. But someone told me you said something about it. A friend of ours a day said you'd put some tweet or something and you just said, you're welcome to it, guys. I'm done with the comedy world or something. Did you do that? Yeah, yeah, yeah, pretty much.

Pretty much. Because I've just, there is only so long that you can play a game where the rules are stupid, where you start to make yourself become stupid by playing the game. Right. can go on for so long, before you have to make a value judgment, you think, am I going to carry on with this and waste time? And time is precious. There is a limited amount that we all

have. Am I going to carry on doing this? Am I going to carry on seeking, carrying the favor of people that I have no respectful, who in ordinary life, I would not give the time of data. But somehow, because I'm in this industry, I have to play the game, I have to be obsequious them, I have to listen to their demented opinions as if they hold any value. I just don't have time for it anymore. Right. And was it that you just saw,

so you didn't respect the people and you saw, did you see no hope in that direction for you? Or, you know, like they would never accept you anyway. Number one, they would never accept me. Number two, they would never accept my politics. Even though actually old school, I'd probably just sort of slightly left of centre, right on some things in terms of culture.

Like, you know, I believe that, you know, there's two sexes. You know, there's men and there's women. that's it. Bigger. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah. And that doesn't mean that we can't have

respect for trans people and we can't support them. We can't be empathetic, all of those things. But you can't deny biology. And, you know, and if you said that on the comedy circuit,

you'd be finished. I wouldn't open with it. As comedians have wanted to say. But this is the thing, Nick. It's like, what Francis is talking about, this is the thing that

it took us a few years to get heads round doing the show. We are genuinely not right. wing, but somehow the idea that there's two sexes or that maybe open borders isn't a sustainable policy or whatever other culture war issue or not cultural war issue you come up with, like the sensible, rational, mainstream opinion is now like, right wing! And it's just not. It's just not.

I'm probably closer to a social democrat or something I realize here again. But in the culture sphere, which is incredibly progressive to use that, their term. The moment you drift anywhere from that, you are immediately considered evil, bigger, like you, you find yourself in this position. And so, the truth is

life is sure, as Francis says, and all is going to happen, you're going to live a few more years, and then you're going to die. That's it. Well, what happened, I had a similar thing to Francis where what bothered me is, comedians telling me for years, oh, be careful about that, mate, don't say that. Not even on stage, just offstage,

some of my opinions, I like to put or did like to put on Twitter in the past, not so much now. But I'd just speak my mind, but they'd all say, oh, mate, don't say that. And at a certain point, I thought, do you really want to live like that? Isn't that cowardice? Do you mean, as a man, do you really want to go around living or as a person? But especially, do you really want to, just for whoever has watched this? But do you really want to go around living in a state of fear about what you say all the time?

Exactly. Because, like you say, some person you don't respect anyway might see it and ban you from some imaginary thing you might have got in six years. Yeah. I'm like, I can't live like that. Yeah. That's how most comedians live. All comedians live like that.

Right. And they always tell me, well, I wouldn't say that. And the things I'm saying are not even bad, but they're just an opinion. And it's like, ooh, about everything. I'm like, I can't live like that. And the comedy world forces you into that. Francis, I remember when we, in the early desert trigonometry, he messaged me saying, I don't think you should say this.

Yeah. And that's not because he's a bad guy. It's because we're all in that world. Yeah. Yeah. You feel like you're constantly being watched by other people. who may give you an opportunity, an opportunity being a gig in fucking Cuntingdon on C for 100 quid,

right, on a Saturday night or whatever it is, 150. Or that one day you'll get on the Apollo and get 15 grand months. But you want. But the thing is you want, you know. And I got the whole thing handed to me on a platter one day because I was walking to a gig and some guy was, had an altercation with some guy on the street who called me a packet. Right.

Which is... I've apologized now. He does that joke every time. Well done. And I got home and I got an email from a comedy promoter saying, Hey, Constantine, I'm sorry, we're going to have to cancel your spot this Saturday because we've got too many straight white men on the bill. Right.

And I was like, okay. You know, now I see. Do you know what I mean? It's just a... But you didn't tweet that. No. That was smart. So you were getting it from both sides.

getting attacked for you. It's a joke, man. The whole thing, ironically, the comedy industry is a joke. The structure of it is a joke. The whole thing of it, it's a rigged game, and, you know, it's like George Carlin used to say, and you ain't in it. It's a small club and you ain't in it. And that's fine, because now, luckily, we have our own tools that we can create our own shit. But you ain't in the club. Yeah, I mean, now I'm thinking I've said too much. There was a slight chance I could have been in the club. But it was just like, no, no, because what I started to do. doing, yeah, I'm the same. I started just speaking my mind and doing all the, and there's all the other channels for that. What happened to me is during the lockdown. Without that, like you said,

that sort of voice of like, oh, what was the comedy world thing? Because that had gone because I was not doing comedy and I was just at home. I then started writing articles for Spiked and I suddenly wrote seven articles like, oh, this is brilliant. And they're quite good. And I was like, oh, I can do this, which I never would have done before. And they would be called, you know, right wing by the comedy in the street, even though they're Marxists. So that's another weird one to figure out. Some of them are Marxists. I started writing these articles, and I did talk radio, then I did GBNEs. And these are the things that if you get cancelled, they're going to still have me on

because they probably don't care because I'm probably being cancelled for something stupid anyway. So I just stick with the things that like me and where I can go. But yeah, but it's unfortunate because it'd be nice to be on TV and say, hey, I'm doing GGB, that's nice, isn't it? And people to go, yeah, well done, without having to feel weird about it. And it'd be nice if you could just do both. Imagine that if you could just do BBC and GV News and no one thought it was a big deal. Because it's all, let's be honest, it's all showbiz, really, isn't it?

Isn't it all really showbiz? There's not that much difference is there between GB News and BBC, really, is there? It's a person reading out some opinions or some news. Is it really that different? I think there is a difference. I think there is a difference, but I don't know if it's as big as we think. I mean, someone once said to me, Jesus was in showbiz. Slightly blasphemous, but I saw it's point, right?

Isn't everyone, we're all a little bit in showbiz here just doing the same? Isn't it just a person saying an opinion on the TV? Yeah, look, there is a good point to be made about that. The thing that I find for straight is not really the comedy industry, though I hope they all burn and die, right? And hopefully I get successful enough and rich enough that one day I can make that dream come to fruition, right? But it's what happens to the art form.

That's what really annoys me, is what happens to the art form. Because when we both start, and I imagine you as well, I've fell in love with the idea of the comedians, this sort of transgressive force, saying the unsayable, tackling subjects that we, you know, that we all knew to be true, but didn't dare speak.

That was the role of the comedian, the Hicks, the prior, the Carlin, the Bill Burr. And I'm thinking, where are those guys going to come from now? Yeah. Where are they going to come from? That's what the comedian was, a sort of loaner figure, telling the truth, getting last, that was what it was all about.

That's what we watched growing up. Now it's this other thing. It has to be. everything that's to be fair and representative. And I got in trouble with saying, why does comedy have to even be representative? I don't even get it. It's just, why can't it just be comedy?

I don't understand. Once it became this important social media, I mean, in this country, it happened with Michael McIntyre, they found out, the BBC found out we could make this cheap programming, relatively cheap, loads of people will watch it and they love it. And then they thought, hmm, how can we turn this into social engineering? You know what I mean?

It wasn't enough just to say, oh, it's comedy. It became too important, so it became a tool, a political tool, as opposed to, just being the art form that it is, that it used to be. Yeah, and do you think we're ever going to get back to that time? Do you think we're ever going to get back to that time where we see these transgressive figures and they become mainstream again? Or do you think it's different now?

The media landscape is different. The internet has made things different and that's just the way it's going to be. Yeah, I do struggle to see how we get back to that. Because we're in this, like you say, Internet, well, we're in this, it's this fractured culture. Everyone has their little niche, which is good in a way, but you don't have that centralized narrative. So it is hard to see how you get these big comedians who are just trying.

It happens a little bit like you say in the US. You do still have them a bit, don't you? Occasionally with someone like Bill Burr, although he's a bit tamer than he was, but you do have it. But I wonder about that. That's why I was thinking about this split between Live at Apollo and Comedy and Lease. And I was thinking, can these two ever come back together

and just be comedy again? Because a lot of the comedy at comedy is just normal comedy. Yeah. And that's actually all we're trying to bring back. Because it just to, this reminds me of a tweet a while ago by, I think it was Richard Tice and he was saying it was on the radio. Him and Lawrence Fox were saying, we're going to have a pub and it's going to have British food, no masks, blah, blah, blah, free speech,

all these things. I was like, yeah, fair enough. And I was like, hang on, that's not, that's not the answer. No. No, we don't. Nobody needs right wing comedy. Right. Just, you just need good comedy.

Just comedy. That's it. That's it. That's it. And whoever brings that, we'll get respect. It's like, oh, these guys brought us back normal comedy. So if that's the right wing, then great, they'll get a win there. But, yeah, we don't need right, the antidote to all this, whatever, so-called woke comedy, whatever you want to call it, is just comedy.

And that's all people want. Some of my YouTube videos that do okay from comedy and least, people like, all the positive comments are all about, oh, proper comedy again. That's all it is. That's all people want. Just normal comedy again. Yeah. Yeah, it's this idea that, you know, that we're all in separate factions.

Now we do comedy to cater to left-wing woke people. Now we need comedy to cater to right-wing people. Right. I don't care, and I don't think the majority of audience members, I don't care about comedian's political views. Right. I disagree with Stuart Lee politically. I think his political views are demented.

I think he's a very good comedian. Brilliant comedian. Yeah, brilliant comedian. I will sit and watch Stuart Lee and disagree with him and enjoy his comedy. Right, right, exactly. And that should be a normal view. I was thinking about I did a gig in Cambridge a while ago. And afterwards, a guy comes up to me and goes, oh, you were really good, mate.

No, you were really good. It was really nice to see. You weren't just sort of doing like a rant. Like, the others were all like, it was a rant. You sort of do it. And I just went jokes. And that was it. I was doing jokes.

I was just doing comedy. But everyone else was doing just a political rant about why the audience should feel bad. And it's like, all I'm doing is not that. I'm just sort of pretending that doesn't exist. You know what I mean? And even in, you mentioned Edinburgh Festival. Even there, you can get reviewed almost on what you're not. Yeah.

Like the year that the Me Too thing was a big thing. If you didn't address that, you'd almost be attacked for that. But all you were really doing, what I've just been doing with my comedy is just pretending none of that exists. And occasionally I'll reference it. If I'm at Comedy Unleashed, I'll do a sort of political or culture war type reference. But mainly I'll just do my comedy as if that's not a thing. But it's more, for me, it's more my apparent offstage music get me in trouble.

But anyway, here we are. Do you think the audiences are just, they're getting to the point where, and this is what I worry about. I was talking, you know, with a friend of mine, and we sat down and were watching this comedian on the latest stand-up show, and I was foaming at the mouth in rage. And I was saying, as a punter, who was just looking at that...

He's taking this all very well, by the way. Yeah, yeah, yeah. A lot of foaming, a lot of burning. You're all right, mate. So I just send you one of these messages. Are you okay? Do you want to swap chairs with me? We can interview you about your anger, mate. Yeah, no, all you're going to see is my vein.

Left side's my better one. John's swap. But he was making the point that when he was watching this comedian who wasn't particularly good, that he would just look at it at that and go, oh, that's what stand-up is now. I'm not going to go and watch it

because it's not good. That's what I worry about as well. Yeah, it can only damage the whole medium for everyone. And everyone knows this. Actually, even the agents know this. Even the big agents that run things like Live at the Apollo

have said the BBC are destroying this. because the agent doesn't want it destroyed because they want to make money. Yeah. But the BBC has their agenda and it's this public thing and they've got this social engineering agenda. So yeah, the agents don't want it.

The audiences don't want it. I don't think the comedians really want it, most of them. And yet it happens anyway. Well, there we are, Nick. Unfortunately, we've got to wrap up, mate. We've got one more question for you that we always asked. But I wanted to ask, what's next for you? What are your plans?

What are you going to do? My plan is really a lot more G. Maybe it may as well double down on that. while we're there. He's got a column and bribe bar. Yeah, yeah. And I'm still doing stand-up. I'm still out there, doing the gig.

So that's it, really. It's just to do more of that, do more writing, you know, articles and stuff, and keep doing stand-up. And, yeah, because I still got clubs that book me and love me. So that's great. I'll keep doing those and just, you know, this weird little niche.

I mean, I don't know where it leads, because it's this new niche, which is sort of the comedy-on-leash world of whatever. that is. So this is new niche. I'm just exploring and see where it goes. That's my hope that that, actually, the current kind of pressure cooker and restrictive culture can get pushback from something like Comedy Unleashed where you get people coming through who are actually willing to be transgressive. And when the numbers are there to back it up, eventually it takes off as the new

counterculture. That's my hope. That's my hope as well, yeah. But it's a strange world. You don't really know what that career is. You're just in. the dark really, you're just sort of hacking away. You just, because it doesn't really, there's no structure that exists there because it's a new platform. Like we did that comedy in each pilot and they're going to try and sell it. We have to make our own distribution platforms and things like that, as you guys know. Yeah, but I think that's very exciting because when you create your own platform,

you have true freedom to be who you are, say what you want, write the comedy that you want because you're no longer answerable to these gatekeepers. Right, right. I'm just hoping for better gatekeepers as well. Things like GV News, Talk, Radio, Spike, these things I do, they're sort of gatekeepers in a way, but in a much different way. But like I say, or just do it yourself, which you guys are doing, which I should probably do more of, but hey.

But Nick, thank you so much for coming on the show. Before we do some questions for locals, we always ask our one final question, which is what's the one thing we're not talking about, but we really should be. Now, what's the one thing? Do you mean we as a culture? Yeah.

What's the one thing we're not talking about? Well, I thought it was straight white male comedians not getting gigs, but that was a huge mistake. That turned out to be a huge mistake. You're not allowed to talk about that. We almost can't talk about anything, can we? I mean, there's almost nothing you can talk about in the culture now without getting in trouble.

So I don't know. I mean, the part of the culture that we inhabit, we kind of talk about whatever we want on here, so far away. Well, the thing is everyone is talking about. So like this trans thing springs to mind, people get in huge trouble about that. I just think, I think we are talking about everything,

but anything you talk about, there's going to be two sides, there's going to be immense conflict on Twitter straight away. I mean, there's this idea of the silent majority. I'm not even totally sure it exists. But I think we are, I can't think of anything we're not talking about because we are, someone is talking about everything. But as soon as you say anything,

you're going to have immense pushback and immense hatred online. But I can't think of one topic that's not brought up. I can just, I just think of a range of topic. that aren't, you're not allowed to talk about, which is virtually everything. In the mainstream. Yeah, but everyone is talking about everything, but they're just, but they're not allowed to talk about any of it. That's my position. Does that make any sense? Yeah, yeah. I guess what you're saying is there are lots of things that you're not supposed to talk about,

but people do talk about it, but it's scary to do so because the risk of cancellation, parlor, whatever is always there. Right, right, right. So we're always talking about everything. We're always talking about race, always talking about trans issues. We're always talking about all issues. We actually are talking about them, but in a very, in a very heated atmosphere where you can't actually talk freely about them. So that's what I think is happening. Yeah. It's a very good point. It's a very good point. Nick, if people want to find your work online, where would be the best place to do that? Well, it's at Nick Dixon comic on Twitter, Nick D-I-X-O-N comic on Twitter, Instagram, all those things. I've got my Spites articles. I'm on Medium. Nick Dixon, you find me, I'm doing, you get

I get paid if you read my medium articles. So they're inspirational article. They're more like uplifting. I did one about my fitness journey, guys. It's very uplifting. So yeah, but at Nick Dixon Comic and you'll find it all. All right. Nick, thanks so much for coming on.

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