TRIGGERnometry - Dan Wootton - Will Harry and Meghan Destroy the Royal Family?

Episode Date: August 4, 2021

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I don't believe any of the coverage of Megan has anything to do with her race. Nothing, absolutely nothing. It's a narrative that she has created, and it's a narrative that a lot of people sadly create now in order to try and make them immune from criticism. Hey, Francis, do you want to keep your online activity private? Yes, I don't want anyone to know. I secretly watch BBC comedy. Ugh, embarrassing. That's why you need Surf Shark VPN.

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Look, we've done the lockdown COVID doom and gloom. Let's talk about something more lighthearted, because you're a big fan of the celeb goss. You love a bit of the royals as well, Megan and Harry. And please forgive me for what will sound quite rightly as a slightly snobby question. Really? Yeah, from me, it's very unusual. But why do people care about that sort of stuff? Because you love it and you're very good at covering it. And when I'm on your show, we talk about it. And there's always a, you know, with Harry and Megan, there's a bit of a political angle which we can talk about and they say, well, why do people care about this sort of stuff more generally? Well, it's interesting because you say I care and I obviously do care to a degree. I would say that the last couple of years has changed where I'm at, though, because obviously I was very in. a celebrity-focused world. And I think a lot of people probably over the course of the pandemic have reconsidered what's important and what we care about. But obviously, as a culture,

we care significantly about celebrities and about the royal family. And I don't think there's anything wrong or shameful about that. And actually, you know, one thing that I want to do with my show on GB News, and it's something that I always would do at the Sun as well, is acknowledge that we can cover lots of different news and you don't demean something by also covering something that actually people are talking about because what is news? What is news? News is what people are talking about. So, you know, the Kardashians ending their e-reality show is news. You know, that is big news. They have changed pop culture. They have changed the way that we consume social media. They've genuinely changed the way a generation behaves. So,

them ending that show to me is really significant news. The royal family, obviously you're completely right, they take on a different dimension because everything they do is history. It's history, you know, and it will be written about for decades and centuries to come because of the cultural structure we have in this country. And obviously it's been an absolutely torrid and unprecedented time, the most unprecedented time for the royal family since the death of Princess Diana in 1997. And certainly for me as a teenager when Princess Diana died, I was 14. I mean, you know, there are two news stories that I feel like define my teenage years. And obviously one is 9-11.

And the other is the death of Princess Diana. You know, it was such a moment for this country and such a moment in culture as well. And it absolutely changed culture. It changed our relationship with celebrities and the world. But it also changed how we are as Brits because her death brought out a whole other sort of idea of expressing public emotion and feelings. And I think, if anything, it was sort of the end of the British stiff up a lip. And then, of course, you have Harry and Megan. and what they represent, I think, is the woke culture coming to the royal family.

And my God, it has been a culture clash like none other. It's interesting that you say that. For me, I think the reason that people latched onto it so much is because it represented the generational divide. You have the divide of, you know, the queen, Philip, duty, country, etc., etc. you put your role before yourself. And then you have the woke, which is, you know, it's about my feelings. It's about how I see the world.

It's about protecting myself, keeping myself safe. And the two just don't fit, do they? No, of course not. Of course not. And Megan was a celebrity. I mean, not a huge celebrity, but she was a C-list actress. But the point is she understood the power of the media. She understood the power of social media.

She absolutely understood the power of celebrity. And she came in and blew it up. She blew it up. She didn't care about royal tradition. She said all of the right things at the start. But her behaviour behind the scenes, and of course I was covering it very, very closely. And it was a fascinating period for me

because obviously I'd been, when Meghan entered the Royal Family, I'd just been editing the bizarre column, which is the big celebrity showbous column at the sun. and I'd left that and Megan entered and it was this fusion between royalty and celebrity. So I was sort of perfectly placed really because I knew Megan's story and I knew people who knew Megan and I knew what sort of person she was and I knew how fame hungry she was and I knew all about her and to see her enter the royal family and the royal family just literally unable to cope was just fascinating. It was fascinating. And, you know, I broke story after story about it and people cared.

You know, people cared. And obviously it culminated in me breaking the story of Meg's at. And, you know, she, they released their statement, announced and they were leaving the royal family about, you know, eight hours after I'd broken the story. So it was, it was a crazy period. And Dan, so we're talking about the royal family. We're talking about Megxit. We've also talking about the escapades of Prince Andrew. Are we seen the slow death of the royal family? Because I think for myself, once the queen dies, that's a major question we're going to ask ourselves as a nation. What is the purpose of this family? Yeah, guys, we're going to cheer up this episode after 40 minutes of lockdown by talking about the sovereign dying. There we go. No, I really don't think we're witnessing the death of the royal family,

but I do think the royal family is in crisis. I don't think it's an extestential crisis, but I think it's a crisis and it's a big crisis and the publication of Prince Harry's book next year is a bomb that is about to go off and everyone knows it. Prince Charles knows it. Prince William knows it. Kimilla knows it. And it's going to be very significant. It's going to be very, very significant. And I don't think he could bring the royal family down, but he could do more damage to the royal family. Is he going to name the royal racist? What's he going to say about his relationship with Camilla, what's he going to say about his dad? And it's obviously very different to the situation with Princess Diana because Princess Diana wanted to bring her husband down and she

wanted to bring Camilla down, but she didn't want to bring the world family down and the institution down. And I sent something quite different with Harry and Megan. There's something quite Republican about their actions. And that's really quite disturbing because what the royal family is they have no idea what's coming. They have no way to control this couple. And Prince Harry knows everything. And I don't get the sense that he wants to hold stuff back in this book. I mean, I know I've obviously reported on them very closely over the past couple of years. My expectation is that they'll be very careful not to say anything that could look offensive to the Queen or Prince Philip. But outside of that, I think it's game on.

Gloves are off. Gloves are off. So you talk about knowing people who know Megan and being familiar with. So what's the dynamics there? Like because people talk about she's come in and she's kind of taken him to a different place mentally or sort of almost taken advantage. Like what's the dynamics there in your opinion? Well, look, I've always said, I don't believe you can play Megan.

You know, Harry's the Prince, isn't he? Harry's the Prince. He's the one that had all of the past. I don't think you can blame Megan. She's had a huge influence on him. She's clearly a very manipulative human being, and she's got him. And I think, look, I judge people a bit.

I know everyone's situation is different, but I do judge people a bit based on who's in their life from their childhood, both in terms of family and friends and school friends. And I know in my life, so I just think about me, you know, my family and my friends from school are everything to me because they know me better than anyone else. And my goodness, they would be the first people I would have at my wedding at any cost, you know, and Megan had her mum. She had her mum. And every other person who was with her at that wedding were friends that she had made post becoming famous in suits, you know. So the PR for

Burbri and the membership manager at Soho House. You know, that's the, That's a very particular type of human being, isn't it? And, you know, I've got to know Megan's sister, Samantha, and she's had a lot of flack, but I got to know her very early on. And what I would say is that everything that Samantha was saying, and at the time, remember, she was just accused of being a troll, you know, but everything that Samantha warned has turned out to be true, you know. Don't let her in, Harry.

She's going to tear you away from your own family. And that's what's happened. That's what has happened. You know, Harry doesn't have a connection with his own family now, apart from his grandmother, really. And Megan doesn't have a connection with her own family apart from her mother. So, I mean, it's a fascinating dynamic. It's a fascinating story. At the end of the date, they can do what they want now. But why do they still have H-R-H titles? I don't get that. I just, that's what I don't get. Why does Megan release a book? and say Megan, the Duchess of Sussex, you know, if she meant what she says about not caring about the royal family, wanting to be her own person, wanting to be a modern feminist, then surely it should be Megan Markle. That's what I don't get. Everything they do trades off the royal family. It's a very weird dichotomy. Do you think that the criticism of Megan was based in racism? Because there's a lot of people go, look, right, you can say what you like about Megan. She hasn't done anything illegal. And then you look at Prince, you know, allegedly with his best mate Epstein flying around the world. Why is he not

receiving more criticism? Well, I have very strong feelings on this. So let me tackle the sort of two things. So I'll tackle Andrew and then the racism if that's okay. So Prince Andrew, the media, and I get it all the time. People say to me, why are you not covering Andrew as much as Megan? like, well, number one, I have. And number two, without the media, specifically my old newspaper, the news of the world, which spent weeks and weeks exposing Prince Andrews' relationship with Geoffrey Epstein. Without the media, there would be absolutely no knowledge of what Prince Andrew did with Geoffrey Epstein. Nothing. Every single revelation about Prince Andrew has been entirely driven by British newspapers. So the news of the world, the mail on

Sunday, the sun primarily. And for a long time, the establishment and the royal family just wanted to ignore that story. They just wanted it to go away. There was no desire to bring down Prince Andrew. It was only reporting from British newspapers that exposed the story in the first place. And then, of course, it was the catastrophic car crash interview by the BBC with Prince Andrew that actually forced the Queen's hand and finally got him sacked from the royal family. So this idea that the British media has somehow tried to protect Prince Andrew. It's just laughably untrue. And you can probably tell it makes me really angry because it's a narrative that's used by Megan supporters. And it's just so wrong. The second point on the racism, I'm also really passionate about

because I covered that wedding. And, you know, I was there at Windsor. And I've never seen, other than the 2012 Olympics, I've genuinely never seen the country more united or happy or more celebratory. Oh my God, we got behind Megan. The British public loved this woman. We totally embraced the idea of a multicultural royal family. The whole country stopped that day for their wedding. There were street parties. I remember going to one after the wedding.

everyone was on cloud nine. The newspapers ran page after page after page about how incredible Megan was, about the potential impact that she would have on the royal family. You know, Megan never wanted it to work. She never wanted it to work. And she always was trying to construct a narrative of racist coverage of her. And I find it craven and weird and sad. Because it doesn't exist, you know, literally people point to one headline about avocados and one headline that referenced that movie, what is it, you know, Compton, you know, straight out of Compton, referring to the fact that she was from a particular area. And actually, if you go and read that article, I think it was by Rachel Johnson, you know, Boris Johnson's sister, it was actually a broadly positive article. So, I'm sorry,

find me the racist coverage. It doesn't exist. It's a narrative. created by Harry and Megan, it's manipulative. Because remember, I mean, and I'm not saying this is necessarily right, but huge amount of negative press about Kate Middleton. I remember it. You know, this is the point I always make. Waity, Katie. Yeah, well, I remember, yeah, that and also I can't remember,

and I don't want to get it wrong because of the libel laws that you talked about, but some tabloid journalist on question time talking about coverage of her and sort of this is way back when. But he said literally, and I remember this, because even I was slightly like taken aback and shocked. He went, look, all she needs to do, right, is go out there, show a bit of leg. And I was like, she was getting slammed pretty hard

just for like trying to have some semblance of a private life. And there's a history of this in terms of female, outside of females entering the royal family. Princess Diana, I mean, hardly an outsider, but you know what I'm saying. She wasn't a member of the royal family. Sarah Ferguson, Fergie, coverage of her absolutely brutal, Duchess of Pork, you know, negative headline after negative headline. Sophie Wessex, you know, exposed by the news of the world and a sting

by the fake shake, all of these princesses that enter the royal family got bad coverage. So, look, I'm not defending that. Maybe we need to have a broader look about how we treat females entering the royal family as a society. But to claim that it's racism because the same thing, happened to Megan is just wrong. And actually, you know, being there reporting it for the whole time, it took a long time before any negative reporting happened about Megan. I probably was one of the journalists that started it, but it was based on her behavior. So I broke, and it was very difficult to do at the time because all of the coverage of Megan had been positive. This is a thing, but I broke a story and it became known as Tiara Gate

and it might look small in the scheme of things now but at the time it was very significant because I was the first person to break that basically the Queen had warned Harry about Megan's behaviour and it had all come from this bust up before the wedding about Megan wanting to wear a particular tiara which the Queen didn't want to lend her

which feels very royal and ridiculous, doesn't it? But within that story, I also revealed that Kate and Megan had fallen out over the way that Megan was speaking to staff at Kensington Palace. And we now know there were bullying claims against her on the record to the HR team at the Royal Family. I mean, the point that I'm making is these are not stories constructed by the media. You know, the media was reporting what was going on behind the scenes. And it actually took many, many months for us to uncover what was going on. And I think there's a lot that was going on that still hasn't been reported on because the bar that you have to reach to report on the goings on behind the scenes of the royal family is very high.

You know, it's very high because you're under a lot of pressure as a journalist if you get anything wrong connected to the royal family. So, yeah, so that's a very long-winded way of saying, I don't believe any of the coverage of Megan has anything to do with her right. race. Nothing. Absolutely nothing. It's a narrative that she has created and it's a narrative that a lot of people sadly create now in order to try and make them immune from criticism, which I think is quite dangerous, is it not? It is very, very, very dangerous. Because it would be like me saying, you can't criticise me because I'm gay. Because if you criticise me, it must be homophobic. that's literally where Megan is at. But it's a tool of choice, as we now know, for quite a lot of people.

And what's interesting to me, I am not someone who's paid almost any attention to this stuff. But, I mean, let's start with the fact, I am darker than Megan Markle, right? So the idea that people are, you know, I remember that wedding, and I actually remember thinking this is a bit over the top here, to be honest, how we were just like obsessing about this wedding and blah, blah, blah. It looked to me like she got pretty good coverage, but quite a few people actually, you know, lost jobs or got into trouble by making the comments that you've just made. And I don't think you will now. But there was a moment in time where I think Pierce Morgan got in, and God knows, I disagree with Pierce Morgan and a lot of stuff. But he got into a lot of trouble, in my view, unfairly.

Lawrence Fox got into a lot of trouble for, again, making the same point. Like, why was there this just desire to tear down? on anyone who made the point that you just made. Well, yeah, I think because the narrative became that if you were criticizing Megan Markle, you were racist. And Pearz accused her of lying in the Oprah interview, and it was particularly hot and heightened because ITV had become a big proponent of mental health,

which is very ironic given the way that they treat people. But anyway, that's a whole other story. But that'd become a big public proponent of mental health. health. And a lawyer just breathed that. So I'm sorry of relief, mate. Yeah, I'll go into that another time. But, um, but, you know, it's provable that Megan told a number of lies during the Oprah interview. It's provable. And Pears lost his job, or he, he left because he refused to apologize after Megan directly complained, we believe, to the chief executive of ITV. And you know what? Do we live in a world where

because you're a princess and because you're a mixed-race princess and because you claim you've suffered from mental health issues, we believe anything you say? I mean, isn't the job of journalists to expose public figures telling fibs and porky pies? No. Not anymore. Not anymore, Dan. And on that wonderfully upbeat note, thank you so much for coming on the show.

we're going to be asking some locals questions. But our last question is always, what's the one thing we're not talking about, but we really should be? Well, I think this is probably quite a curve-based on everything we've been talking about during the show, because it's not related to any of it. But I think it is about tech addiction. I'm absolutely convinced it's going to become one of the most important stories over the next 20 years. I think I'm addicted to my phone, right, in a way that is genuinely quite scary. And I think for young people that have grown up literally from two years old, not doing anything other than touching technology from the moment they wake up to the moment they go to bed, there's going to be a whole load of mental health and societal challenges around that. And we just don't talk about it, do we?

everything now that we need in our life is contained very often in a phone. And it's breaking down lots of social interaction in society. It's causing lots of relationship difficulties. And, yeah, I think tech addiction is something that, I mean, you see companies like Apple sort of are aware that this is going to become a big issue, which is why they've introduced things like screen time, where they tell you how much time you've spent on your phone. But I see it. doesn't stop me doing it, you know, just because I know I'm addicted, it doesn't mean I'm not addicted. Do you see what I mean? And I think it's going to become a huge issue for the big tech companies and also social media as well,

because all of them play into each other. So how do we still use technology and harness the brilliance of technology without losing the importance of human interaction and what that brings us all? And I think especially with the pandemic and having people, especially young people, locked up at home for the past two years, I think the ramifications from it are huge. And I think it's going to be a big story to come. But at the moment, it's just not being covered. Dan, thank you so much for coming on the show.

Ironically, if people want to find you online, where would be the best place? Probably via my social media. So I'm at Dan Woodson on Twitter and Facebook and Instagram. And of course, your G.B. New Show remind people where... Yeah, and GBM News Tonight Live is on 9 p.m till midnight, Monday to Thursday. And of course, Constantine, you're with me every Thursday night. So if you're a fan of trigonometry and you want a bit extra dose of Constantine, you've got to join us on Thursday.

And GB News, you can download the app wherever you are in the world as well, so you don't even have to be in the UK. And it's free. Fantastic. Dan, thanks so much for coming on. And thank you for watching at home and listening at home. We will see you very soon with another brilliant episode like this one, or a raw show. All of them go out.

P.M. UK time, which is 2pm Eastern. Take care and see you soon. See you soon, guys. We hope you've enjoyed this incredible interview. Remember to subscribe and hit the bell button so that you never miss another fantastic episode. And if you believe that the work we do here at Trigonometry is important, support us by joining our locals community using the link below.