TRIGGERnometry - Dating Advice for Men From a Woman

Episode Date: March 26, 2020

Kezia Noble is a leading dating and attraction expert and author of 'The Noble Art of Seducing Women'. Support TRIGGERnometry: Paypal: https://bit.ly/2Tnz8yq https://www.subscribestar.com/triggernometry https://www.patreon.com/triggerpod Find TRIGGERnometry on Social Media:  https://twitter.com/triggerpod https://www.facebook.com/triggerpod https://www.instagram.com/triggerpod About TRIGGERnometry:  Stand-up comedians Konstantin Kisin (@konstantinkisin) and Francis Foster (@failinghuman) make sense of politics, economics, free speech, AI, drug policy and WW3 with the help of presidential advisors, renowned economists, award-winning journalists, controversial writers, leading scientists and notorious comedians. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello and welcome to Trigonometry. I'm Francis Foster. I'm Constantine Kisham. And this is a show for you. If you're bored with people arguing on the internet over subjects, they know nothing about. In Trigonometry, we don't pretend to be the experts. We ask the experts. Our brilliant guest this week is a leading female dating and attraction expert for men. Kesea Noble, welcome to Trigonometry. Hi, thank you for having me. It is great to have you here. And before we get into the meat of the interview, tell us a little bit about who I'm How are you where you are? How do you find yourself sitting in this chair telling us all about

what you're going to tell us about? Well, as you said, I'm a leading female dating and attraction expert for men. I only help men. Don't help women because that would be the blind leading the blind. I've been doing this since 2006. I have my own company, my own team. I have I think I have 30 people working for me. They're based in Britain and the US. I run courses. boot camps, seven-day mastery programs, and I have my online training programs too. I'm a published author. I have a YouTube channel that's had 70 million views. Oh. Yeah, I know I didn't get the silver thing that they sent through and you get 100,000 subscribers. Do you not get that? No, I didn't. I'm 400 and something thousand, so I thought I was going to get something like a gold, but you can only get the

gold when you hit a million. Right. And yeah, that's my life in a nutshell. Do you get demonetized YouTube? Yes. Really? Yeah. You get demonetized? Yeah, for some videos, yeah. For what? How to get a girl into bed super fast. That one didn't, you know, they didn't like that one. Right. But some of them are really random, like how to not run out of things to say with a woman, demonetized. I know. Random. Yeah, well that's horrific shit that no one should ever see. Google likes boring conversations. And terrorism. Yeah. Yeah. So I was watching one of your videos. I think it was about something to do with how to compliment a woman. Oh, yeah. Okay. And you were talking about the fact that just saying something like, oh, you look lovely or whatever, is shit.

It's shit because it does not communicate your real intent, right? You were saying you need to make it more sexy. So, okay. Well, I was going to quote you a specific example. I know, but do correct me. Okay, so if you, okay, there's two types of compliments. So there's one which is you have to make the compliment feel very detailed and bespoke. That doesn't necessarily mean that you have to sex it up. So you could say something like, oh my God, you're adorable. You look like a Disney, I don't know, princess or something. I can't put my finger on it.

It just shows that it's a little bit tailor-made for her and it's a little bit of thought. I love the way that, you know, you put your asses. outfit together, for instance. I love the fact that you know how to do makeup. So many girls don't have a clue about how to put on makeup. It's specific. It means you've noticed something about her that she's put some effort in. It's that detail.

If you say lovely, beautiful, attractive, it's generic. You could say that to the next girl. And she knows that. But something specific always what we found creates a better reaction. Now, the part when you sex it up, that's if you're like in that nice sky zone. So you were talking about this and you were talking, you're sitting down with some,

you're a man, you're sitting down with a woman, you're having a conversation, everything's going well, you need to take it to, you need to sex it up, you need to take to the next level. And the example that was given in that video was,

like, I think your legs are very sexual, something a compliment about her legs. Yeah, your legs look hot. Your legs look hot. Something like that. Now, I'm not on the dating scene, but I know a lot of people

just in the look at Francis's face. Like in our world, right, certainly among comedians or whatever, if you went out for a drink with a female comedian and you thought you were getting on and then you made that, I mean, that could literally kill your career permanently, right? Then don't go out with somebody. That you were in the same industry. Or I wouldn't use that maybe somebody that you're going to see again and again.

and again. But at some point, I mean, you are going to have to escalate it. So if you're not going to do it verbally, then you have to do it physically. You are going to have to go in for the kiss at some point. Yeah. Right? Yeah. So some people would be like, well, I'm going to test the water and see. And look, you know something? Let's just rewind this for a second. If a woman is attracted to a guy and he turns around and says, your legs are fucking hot, she's going to like it. She might say, oh, it's a bit cheeky. Yeah. But she's going to like it. If she doesn't fancy the guy, she's not going to like it.

So it's your way of testing the water. So if she's like, like that, a bit uncomfortable after you said something like that, you're like, well, I'm not backing down. You've got beautiful legs. You don't back down, but then you can know, okay, she's not that interested right now. If she just kind of goes, really, do you think so? Oh, no, they're awful in my legs because it means she carries wanting to talk about it. That's a good sign.

So I'll give you example, if a guy, and I've had guys I've put in the friend zone, and then like trying to get out of the friend zone, I'll be like, okay, so wow, you look so hot. And I'll be like, thanks. And I'll go back to your friend zone. So they go, thanks. Because what we do is we shut it down. Like, okay, thank you. That's so cute.

Thanks. So adorable. Shut down. Don't bring up anymore. If it's a guy I like, I'm like, oh, really, you think so. Or, oh, I'm really insecure about my legs. It's meaning, can you validate me a little bit more? Can I hear this a little bit more?

because it's the way we're talking about it and you were saying that a lot of your fan base is actually based in America I imagine with some British guys isn't this excruciatingly difficult going compliment her

because we're so bound as British people we just can't even express ourselves emotionally they find it more difficult yeah and plus we've been well guys have been watching Hugh Grant movies and thinking oh that's what women like no they don't and even when Hugh Grant does it

in those movies, they don't, women do not fancy that kind of guy. Unless he's showing like other elements, you can be like this really good guy. A lot of people think I'm trying to teach guys to be the bad guy. That's another common mistake people make. But I'm teaching guys to just show that they're not one-dimensional nice guys. Like I've been on dates with men, my ex-husband, for example, and he was like very perfect, you know, like, just, came from a good family.

He was really polite and just treated me like a lady. And I enjoyed it, but I was like, something's missing. I don't know what it is. Something's missing. Maybe I like bad guys. Maybe I'm just one of those women. I'm just going to end up with some awful guy. And we were having dinner.

And I was about to tell him, look, you're a really nice guy. But there's just no chemistry. And he leaned in and I thought he was just going to say something like pass me or something. He was like, oh, you know, I can't wait to fuck you or something like this, yeah, really. But he was like totally unapologetic about it. Can you pass me the red wine? I was like, ah, that was the missing piece.

You've got to be bold and show that other side to you. Otherwise, the girl's just going to be like, yeah, he's just another nice guy that I can't see anything happening with, you know? Because it's amazing. It's bold, but fortune favors the bold, right? Yeah, absolutely it favours the bold. I just can't imagine a lot of British guys doing that. You say that, I can imagine American guy.

Like, you know, I can imagine a Latino guy. Yeah, I mean, they'd say that after 50 seconds. But I can't imagine a British guy saying that and delivering those words comfortably unless they were absolutely battered. I've experienced this in British guys. It's less so. British guys, I wouldn't say they're, yeah,

they're not so good with women. And I... They've got the banter, which is... good. They got the banter. They got the humour. Yeah, when it comes to sexual escalation, there is an insecurity there. There is that hesitance I've noticed. And so... Can I ask you questions? Yeah, go for it. Oh, this is going to be good.

How did you get with, I don't want to know like the whole story with your, how you got with your partners, like, oh, how we met. But there's got to be this point where you first kissed. Yeah. Now. Okay, I know this is going to be like a little bit private, but fuck it. How did you have your first kiss? Were you plastered? Were you drunk? No, so I'm sober. There we go. Most of the time. Most of the time, yeah. And no, I met my girlfriend doing comedy. So I ran a gig and she was just starting out doing comedy.

She wanted a spot. She wanted a spot. There we go. Yeah. Love is transactional. That's what you need. She wanted something, I needed something. It is, absolutely, bless her. And then I was up at the Edinburgh Festival

and asked her if she wanted another spot. Again, this doesn't make me... This is a slow burner. You know what you're talking about? This is a slow burner. Yeah, exactly. This is Francis ruining his career live on air and I'm enjoying it, and so is our producer,

so is Kazza. Everybody's happy. Yeah, I'm mentoring myself, mate. Fucking hell. As long as you didn't grab her ass at some point without her consent. Yeah. Well, you haven't even, anyway,

you haven't even heard. I can't believe I'm telling this story. That's good. Get off your chest. Get off your chest. Hang yourself. Great. Okay, so we were at the Edinburgh Festival.

And then I said to her, would you like to go for a drink? And she went, yes. And then she brought her friend along with her. That's a bad sign. Yeah. So then I brought my friend along. And we ended up having a really sort of awkward conversation.

We then carried on to a bar and she bought me a shot and was just like, go on, have the shot. I'd been about, hey, mum's sober by this point. I had the shot. We then got on great guns. She went home. I carried on drinking. I had to be taken home. For the rest of his life.

Nothing happened that evening, no kissing. No, no kissing. And then I had to be taken home. And then from there, from the end, and then from the rest of his life. on we just started hanging out and slow burner slow burner and then uh we were i was just like we were walking down the road and i thought fuck it i mean if it's gonna happen it's gonna you know i've got to try something so i leaned in i kissed it bold yeah you had to be bold at some point and you just went for it now what if she'd have said oh excuse me what are you doing uh i would have been like that makes

sense let's carry on walking but you know how many guys wouldn't have done that they'd have just carried on and on and maybe they would have thought, oh, you know what, I'll do it when I'm really sure she likes me. And then they wait and wait. So many guys have waited, wait, waited, wait, and waited. And it's been like month, two months, and then she's found someone else in the meantime. Or she'll be like, oh, I actually, because you never, you know, you never did anything, I just presumed you didn't like me. Or they just start seeing you as just that eternal friend. So you did a bold move. That's good. But you had time to play with here because, you know, you kept giving her this spot on this.

Good, no, but that's good. You're using your resources. Why do we have to say me too? Like, that's what people do. Women use their looks to lure guys in to dates. You know, we use our looks, right? Well, this is what I was going to ask you, but I'm curious what you make of feminism in the car.

Do you consider it? Look at that face. Are you a feminist yourself? I'm a single mom. I take no money. from my ex-partner who's a multi-multy millionaire okay so he doesn't pay any child maintenance I run my own company left school at 15 I've never I've been out with very wealthy men never relied on them for money or anything never been

sponsored by anyone so I don't know is that that sounds like a feminist to me that does sound like a feminist without preaching to other people so when Some people say, are you famous? I'm like, but I'm kind of living that life of a feminist. I'm just not preaching about it to other people. You're a bad feminist. Am I? No, but that's my joke. No, no, it's fine. I want to know. Am I a bad feminist?

No, you're not. But I guess... So what's a bad feminist then? Well, I was only joking. No, no, no. I don't get offended by anything. I don't even if you mention my weight or anything. Your weight is brilliant and your chin looks great. My joke was more based around the fact that a lot of these feminism and other movements,

they seem to be about preaching rather than living. This is exactly the point that you're making. So I actually think someone like you is a good example. I'll give you example what happened. Okay, so I put something on social media, which is it was International Women's Day, which I think it's just, I think it's cringe. And I think International Man's Day is cringe. And international anything day is a bit cringe.

Not all of it, but the man and woman day is a bit cringe because I was watching this thing unfold on social media of International Women's Day. And it was like, it was a lot of cupcakes and things involved. Like a lot of people posting cupcakes and stuff. I was like, ugh. And I said, I'm sorry, I just don't agree with this whole International Woman's Day. And oh, my God, the backlash I had from the feminist movement. I don't know who these people were. A lot of them had blue hair.

And they targeted me on Facebook. look. I didn't know what they're up against because I've got like all these followers that were just, you know, slacking these people. I was like, no, no, no, I'm going to respond properly to these people. So they started calling me a penis panderer. I said, that's brilliant. I'm a penis panderer. Hashtag penis panderer. I've never heard of this one before. They said, you're just pandering through the penis, the way you dress, you are hashtag part of the problem, all this. And I wrote a great response. And first of all, I made sure that I made sure that I was in a very provocative kind of penis pandera position,

you know, my bikini on looking really like vulnerable and things. And I put on there like a message saying, yeah, maybe I'm a penis panda. Maybe I love men attention. I do. I really like men attention. But also I am a single mom. I'm also somebody who thinks feminism is essentially a good thing.

So why do we have to like classify? What's this identity politics all of a sudden? Why can't we be many things? things in that sense, like on my left wing, right wing, you know, like, there's lots of different aspects of both that I agree with and I don't agree with. And it comes down to this. So I wrote this message saying, you know, in my life, there's a lot of guys who have kind of, you know, fallen out with because they've underestimated me, whatever, they've said when I'm angry that I'm hysterical, the kind of usual stuff that women moan about guys. But it's like, the people

have actually really helped me back and been women in my life, my own personal experience. It's like women haven't given me the leg up at all. It will help me. I found that men have been better allies to me than women. But anyway, I put this response out and actually it went a little bit viral, a little bit viral. A lot of people sort of reposting going, this is real feminism. What she's doing by herself, all this, this is real feminism. And that was from both men and women.

Look, I spend a lot of time telling you what's wrong with the world. So let me tell you about something that's actually right. Sleep, specifically getting more of it, better quality. The kind where you wake up and feel like a human being, rather than someone who's been thrown down a staircase. Most mattresses are just layers of synthetic foam and crossed fingers. You're spending a third of your life on the thing, and most people have no idea what's actually in it.

Avicardo green mattress is different. Their mattresses are certified organic. built from natural materials designed to actually support your body properly rather than just hold you in one position until morning. The craftsmanship is real. These are mass produced objects. Someone has put thought into them. I'll be honest. I'm not the person who thinks carefully about where he sleeps. My dating history will tell you that. I'm the person who's been on the same mattress for eight years and called it fine. But the older I get, the more I notice that fine isn't actually fine. Your body tells you, if you're going to invest in anything for you,

your home, your bed is the one that pays you back every single night. Avocado products are made, not manufactured, and thoughtfully crafted with real materials to deliver lasting comfort and support. Go to avocado greenmatress.com slash trigger to check out their mattress and furniture sale. That's avocado green mattress.com slash trigger. Avocado green mattress.com slash trigger. That's why I made the joke that you're a bad feminist. because actually I think someone who does that,

they are a good feminist, and it's the people running around shutting down everyone else. And like you say, it's fascinating that you bring up identity politics because this is something we talk about all the time. And this is exactly where we are coming from, which is the simple understanding that people are much more complex

than these simple categories that they get thrown into. But the reason I brought up the feminist issue in the first place is you were talking about using looks to get attention and stuff like that. And there seems to be some, Some people now who just say, no, this doesn't exist. Men and women aren't using their looks for different things or men aren't using status to get female attention

and all this kind of stuff. Right. But they are. Right. I don't think they should actually. Yeah. I think if a man has game, then it doesn't matter if he loses all his wealth and his, you know, accolades.

He will still get women. That's why I teach guys. I teach guys game. I teach them how to be attractive to women, no matter what the circumstances are. So you say the word game. What does game actually mean? Okay, game. Just to be, you know, good with women. The skills.

Yeah, the skill set. We had a famous guy, not super famous, he's in a soap opera in England. And obviously because he's famous, it's like, goes out, gets women. It's super easy. And he's like, he came to us, I was like, you don't need any help. Yeah, but I want to be able to learn how to attract women when I'm in another country. country and no one has a fucking clue. So I am. And also he says, I know this is not going to last. Right. And, you know, the ex soap opera, because we've had loads of like ex soap opera. Oh, because for them, the crash is bad, right? Yeah. Oh, I can, I can see that. You see, women have something else. Women lose their looks. Whereas guys, you know, if they lose

the thing that is usually a career or it's money or something like that, that's when they fall to pieces. So he came to us and he said he's going to go to South America for like a month and he just wants to know how to poor women because he won't be able to rely on his status at all. So that's what we teach. I don't think guys should rely. I don't think women should rely. Like I've started losing my looks recently. I know I'm so beautiful. No, but I've noticed. It's a little thing I've noticed. I'm like, well, I've got to just work much harder on getting richer by people and just like work on my personality it's just like that's it

I have to work on my game now my looks are fading and so with guys I just think don't rely on the accolades and the success because that can go tomorrow rely on your game and do you think we've started

and it's become I've seen it grow more and more and especially because I used to be a teacher in schools is a victim culture have you seen the victim culture creep into men and you know essentially blame everybody else

apart from themselves Yeah. Yeah. So, have you heard of the Red Pill movement? Yes. So I had Coach Red Pill. He's a very smart guy. I had him on my podcast.

And he had me on his show. And basically the Red Pill movement, the guys and Midtow, which is men going their own way movement, they don't like women in general. And they don't like me. So when I went on his show, the hate I got was worse than the hate I got from the feminists. They were like, she's a cum bucket. But that's what she's good for. She looks like a blow-up doll, all this kind of stuff. She's fake.

Hope she gets AIDS soon. Really, really, I mean, it doesn't bother me at all. Because no one mentioned my weight. That's good. Not one person for fat. So it's fine. No, but really, it doesn't hurt. Because I've been in this movement,

I've been in this industry for so long. You should see what some of the old forums used to say about us. He used to do pictures of us and all sorts of shit. So you kind of numb to it. You don't care anymore. Anyway, sorry, to digress. I went on his show and he put a video up saying, never take advice from a woman.

And then he did something quite controversial and put me on his show, asked me a question. So I was like, you know what, come on my podcast, see what happens. And he came on. And I challenged him, just as he challenged me. And I said to him, you know,

I've looked at the guys that you're teaching. And you're right. You know, there's a lot for them to be pissed off about with women. and the Me Too movement. And, you know, I get it. There's frustration there. But at some point, you've got to say, there's nothing I can do about this.

There's nothing I can do. This is an external issue here. I have to just work on myself. Because what's happening is they're like going, fuck women. Fuck women. truth in it. I'm not going to lie. This is quite controversial me saying it, but there's so much truth in it. Like how the dating balance is completely skewed in favor for women and how men

are being encouraged to be more, more beater by society. This is shit. This is terrible. And they have a right to be fucking angry about it. But play the game. Play the game. So when students come to me and like, oh, but women expect this and that might play the game. play the game, work on your skills and you will cut through this. Because women are fundamentally still attracted to the same things that they always have been. Yeah. Which is? A man who has a strong sense of character, a strong reality, who's unapologetic for who he is.

That doesn't mean in an arrogant way, but it's not someone who's trying to apologize for everything that they do. Someone who is comfortable with himself and who is unapologetic about and... almost honest about his own personal trajectory in life. That's very important and the choices that he's made. It's fascinating to me that you say that because sometimes my wife and I have like, she wants me to do something and I'm like, no, I'm not doing that. And she's like, no, no, I really want you to do that. I'm like, no, I'm not doing that.

Like what? Take the dog out. I don't have a dog, but it might be. It's something that I'm entitled not to do if I don't want to. It's not like an obligation that I actually should. It's a sexual thing. No. I did not expect you to go. I was going to make that joke

and I helped that. Thank you. Yeah, yeah. Oh, you should have done it, man. But well done, Kezi. Thank you. No, it's literally like, can you go there and pick this thing up

instead of me because I forgot. Something like that. Okay. Whatever. And if I can, like, consistently refuse to do something that I don't want to do for whatever. Or it might be like she's got some new vitamins that she wants me to try.

Let's say that, right? She's like, oh, you need to, you need to take these vitamins. And I'm like, no, I don't want to. Okay. She's like, no, you've got to. I'm like, no, I'm not doing it. And she's like, no, no, you really have to. I'm like, no.

And after a while, she'll go away. And then two minutes later, she comes back and she'll go, you know what? I really love the way you really know, like what you stand for. Yeah. That's cool. She's qualifying you, by the way, which is cool. She's regaining the, she's using a little trick, actually, that I teach guys to you. How does she qualify me?

Is it the fact that she comes back and acknowledges the fact that I've stood up for whatever. but by doing that, she's taken the power back? Is that what I say? Yeah, she's qualified. She's validated your behavior. Right. So I call this the diffusion technique. It actually doesn't diffuse, but I wrote that in my book.

It's called the diffusion technique. And it's sort of stuck in now. It's actually called the negative attraction technique. So a lot of guys will be like, I don't want to get into a really serious topic with a woman because we might end up arguing. It starts becoming heated. And then, you know, she's just going to lose interest. I'm like, no, no, no.

Keep that going. It's good if it's heated, okay? Get her to invest some passion into the conversation, even if it's negative, and then shift that into a positive energy by, say, get the book. Just say to her, look, you know what, let's stop. Me and you are never going to agree on this, right?

And she goes, right, so she's on the yes ladder now. We could sit here and argue about this all week, and we still won't agree about it, right? She goes, right. But you know what? That's what I actually really like about you. You don't back down. Don't you think other people, they just agree and just sort of like bend their own reality in accordance with someone else's, just nod their head.

And you like me, you just, you'll stick to your guns. I love it. So what you're trying to say there is, we are both passionate people and everyone else. It's like not passionate. So that's a way of flipping it around and creating attraction. Now, your... My wife's got game. She does.

No, she does. but she wasn't doing it to create attraction unless you had angry sex after and there's too much information. But what she was doing is she was like thinking, I can't win this battle. So I'm going to kind of like win the war and show that I am,

she's just using a tactic to say, I like that about you. You know, pat you on the head. I like that. But I think it also comes back to your point, which is that women do like a man who stands up for what he believes, who has a strong sense of what is...

Reality. And again, to guys out there, never bend your own reality in accordance with the girls, ever. She's very aware of it. She'll say something. The guy would be, you know, shifting his opinion. She's very aware of it. It's like, oh, God, he's turning into the head nod of the one that agrees of everything she says. But it's a great point that you make,

because you can tell when somebody's being fake. It just can, and it just becomes this interesting. If someone just goes, look, this is what I think. These are the reasons why I think. If you don't like it, that's fine. But this is where I am. Automatically, you have an emotional reaction to it. It means that you're more comfortable with who you are, and it's showing that that's what it's conveying,

is that you're comfortable with who you are in your opinions, and you've bought them out. That's just little things like that, just make someone more attractive. Absolutely. Let's talk about something else. Let's talk about the difference between boys and girls, because I know you've got a little boy, and I used to be a teacher, so right the way from 4 to 18, and people go, there's no difference between the genders?

Huge difference. It's a lot of crap. Huge difference. So let's get into it. So when I had my son, I was totally like those people thinking, oh, I know, I think that if you just keep giving toy cars to boys and action man to boys, you know, they're going to end up being more aggressive. And if you keep giving dolls to little girls, you know, they're going to be more maternal.

Now, I just let my son have wherever he wanted. Like, you want a doll, have a doll. Just point to that you have it. When I go out with him, I'm like Richard Gere, you know, just whatever you want. And at first when they're really young, he really will play of any old shit. It is gender neutral, all the toys. But then they start getting to a point where two years old, I noticed, that's the shift. The boys start wanting to play with other boys.

Before that, they don't care. The girls want to play with other girls at nursery. The boys are playing. This is going to offend so many women. Fantastic. Boys do want to build things and destroy. They want to make, they like the Lego and the bricks more than the girls. There are the exception to the rules.

There are the little girls who love building, I know. God bless them. And there's little boys who really hate all that and love brushing, you know, the doll's hair. Again, it's exception to the rule. The boys were immediately with the cars. And even the nursery workers were like, we have to hide the cars from the boys. because they just zoom into the cars. God knows why.

I still can't work out what the thing is about the wheels going around or something, what it is. But we were girls just didn't want to play the cars and the boys wanted to build things and then they wanted to smash it all up. Where are they learning this? It wasn't from me.

But it wasn't. And I spoke to that, and I had a conversation with parents because I found this so fascinating. So I spoke to the other moms of the boys. I'm like, where do they learn this? Like, we're not smashing stuff up. We're like you.

We brought them up, not gender neutral, but with kind of like no aim to make them like tough boys at all. And they end up like that. So now he's at school. And when the like school gates open, the boys just go in there and they're making this kind of very prime noise when they're going in there. I'm not going to do it. It's really unattractive noise.

But it's like, destroy. That's the noise. All of them. They're just going in there and they just want to destroy the whole school. And the girls are just standing in like, why is this madness? I'm a West Ham fan. I get to see it every week, that primal,

er. But it's actually, you know, you mentioned... There's no getting away from this point. This is not me. I wish I could come and tell you something else. This is my experience.

I have never tried to make my boy like, oh, you know, come on, champ. I don't use things like that. I just bring them up, like, whatever, you know? Just be a nice person and do what you want. Well, exactly. And it's funny that you mentioned that you noticed that at a particular time,

because actually the research, there's a guy called, he's actually Sasha Baron Cohen's cousin or brother or something, their relatives who does research on this. And they do research with day-old infants. So they're literally, the moment they're born, they offer them a toy that's either like an object, like a truck or something or like a piece of wood or whatever, or like an anthropomorphic, like a human-shaped doll or something.

And even at that age, one day old, the girls reach for the human. shaped object more. It's the same with monkeys. You do the same experiment. It's extensive research, though. Because I think you've got to do a lot of... Yeah.

Well, it's the same with monkeys as well. They do the same experiment with monkeys. Female monkeys are more likely to reach for the kind of monkey-shaped thing. I had no idea. Male monkeys are more likely to reach for the stick or whatever it might be. Well, it's evolution. It's evolution. Men evolved to manipulate objects, to hunt, to do all this.

And it's the patriarchy. It's ingrained in all of us, mate. Yeah, I mean, yeah, when they're in the womb, they're getting in... With all this patriarchical bullshit. Yeah, the toxicness. I knew I was having a boy. Maybe he sensed it.

Yeah. He was getting ready like that. She knows I'm coming. I better live up to that boy kind of image. But it's also, do you think nowadays as men, like we have to sort of deny our masculinity a little bit? You shouldn't, but that's what society is trying to do to you guys. And could you go into that a little bit more?

I get why they're doing it because they want to empower women by putting men down. And I don't think it needs that that should happen. I don't think that, I don't think you need to do that in order to empower women. I feel very empowered. I've always felt very empowered. I've never, I've never looked at men as my superiors or inferiors. I've looked at them as my equals. Not this, you know, I don't get where these, I mean, okay, there's women that have had

terrible experiences with men. But I have too, actually. I've been, I had a relationship with violent. The guy was violent to me. So I've had my fair share, but it doesn't mean I go and say, every single man's violent. That was a bad relationship. But I've always seen men as my equals.

And I think that's a good thing to think. And I don't know why we have to make men into our subordinates with what society is trying to do. It's like that's the way to raise women, to empower women. By denigrating men. Yes, I've noticed it in adverts a lot. Why are the men always looking so stupid in adverts, incompetent? Okay, men are a little bit more incompetent.

with small children than women. I've noticed that. Not all, not saying they're bad fathers, but it's just little details. I found men sort of... Terrible at breast feelings. Yes, it's awful at breastfeeding.

No, but it's just... I don't know. I don't think... I think women maybe are on the whole a little bit more... Oh, what's the word? Forgotten... Paying more attention to detail

when it comes to very small children. But it's also because... I think part of this is... So, for instance, early years teachers are always women. I remember there was this drive to try and get men in. Oh, but it's less so, by the way, my son, he had a male one. He was the best one that he had.

You see? It's changing, which is good. No, but I think that's good. I think men, you know, becoming nurses and looking after children's a good thing. I don't think that that's the part that's belittling men. I think it's when women are treating men badly and laughing at men and humiliating men on adverts and on TV. that becomes an issue. And this is where we come back to what you were saying earlier.

Does that make sense? No, yeah, absolutely. It's not me going mad. You've seen this. Absolutely. So when they make fun about men looking off the baby, so there was an advert recently where the men left their children in the buggy because it was for Philadelphia cheese or something.

And it was this whole big uproar. And I was like, that's not a bad thing, actually. It's like we all know that men are not so good with small babies as the moms are. They pay less attention to detail. So I was like, that's not the issue because men, it's more like when the woman is kind of like making the man look stupid in every day-to-day life that I think is the issue, rather than things that have always been there. That makes absolutely perfect sense. And what I was going to say is it takes us back to what you were saying a little bit earlier, which is that there is a group of men now who have become resentful, bitter, resigned, who've taken. disconnected from society, you've disconnected from dating. And as you say, I mean, you could argue they

have some legitimate concerns, but my feeling on it is they need more game. I've always thought this about any part of your life, wherever you're not happy about something, your career isn't going as well as you want it to be. You're not getting, you know, as comedians, you're not getting to play the clubs that you want to play or you're not getting to where you want to get to. You've got to get better, you know. Every part of life is it's on your show. shoulders, get better, get better. Right. But with this, it's now something to say, you know, it's like just give up.

Yes. But do you, okay, what's your thoughts of this? I don't like the internet dating. I don't like it. I know people have found happiness from it. I don't do it. And I think it's okay as an option, but it shouldn't be the only solution to finding someone. If a guy doesn't look good, how is he going to meet anyone from

online dating if he can't have a good picture of himself. What if he's like disfigured? Like he's been in a terrible accident and he's disfigured. Who is going to click on his photograph going to, yeah, I'll meet you. It's just not going to, okay, you might get some people, but it's going to be very, very rare, okay? It's, it's, this is just, it's sad. By being honest, it's not like a fetish out there for disfigured people. So when it's like a fat person, I should say overweight person, or whatever is politically correct. We are called trigonomics. We are called trigonometry. So say what it was.

Fat people who can't stop eating like those ones. You know, I had it's whole thing. Katie Hopkins came out there. Yes. But, you know, some guys are like, like a big woman and someone like, I like a big guy.

But someone has disfigured or looks really bad. Okay, physically just bad. They haven't been blessed with looks. They're just not, they're just going to be swiped. Yeah. They're just going to be swiped. And yet, that guy could have amazing game, amazing chat.

He could be so funny. And because his only way to meet women has now become through dating apps because of hashtag me too, which has tried its best to frighten men into not approaching women. If that's his only way of meeting women, he's fucked.

He is fucked. Because what you really teach from talking about you is the art of connection. I give you example of disfigured. We had a guy, sorry for interruptions. It's fine. We had a guy who was in a wheelchair, okay? He came to us in this wheelchair, and it was through, it wasn't an accident.

But he used to be able to walk. It was a medical condition. And he had this wheelchair, but it was, like, built in a certain way where he was, like, raised quite high. And he's like, I want people to see beyond the wheelchair. I'm like, no one's going to see beyond the wheelchair. It's there, okay? It's not like, you know, my, like, you've got, like, a pimple or something. You've got this huge wheelchair.

He's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, but, you know, I want to get my personality through. I'm like, okay, the wheelchair is your prop. You talk about it. You talk about the elephant in the room here, okay? You make it work. It's part of your act, just like you guys do, part of the routine. And so one of our guys, he's very good at one-liners. He turned around and said, look, you've just got to go up to him and say, I suppose you're wondering why I'm in this wheelchair.

And then the woman's, like, really thinking, yes, I would like to know, but she didn't want it. obviously. It's like it's because I got this enormous penis. I need a special machine to take me around. Now, God, feminist and hashtag me too, you know, people would be like, oh my God, you can't say something like this. Okay, okay. The girl knows every girl that he used that line with burst out laughing. She could see he was a funny guy. So you're now you're looking at this is a funny person, not someone in a wheelchair. So when all these people go, and you shouldn't say things like that, you shouldn't talk about your penis like this. What should he have done? What should you have done? What's a better solution? Oh, well, he should have just been himself. People can't see me on the wheelchair unless he shows that he's got this funny side.

That's his funny side. That's his humour. Do you see what I mean? No, absolutely. So there's this great area. Everything for them is very black and white. Yeah. You know, you mentioned the word penis is harassment.

Was that really harassment? That example I just gave you? It wasn't. It was just like it was a joke. So that's what I mean. Like, if this guy had just used dating apps, which he was going down that route and he's like, oh, I'll just use my face

and take away the wheelchair. I'm like, she's going to see you and it's going to be awkward. It's like, okay, I'll take the photograph of my wheelchair. Then I was like, okay, you're going to get less people wanting to see? I'm sorry, it's a harsh world out there. That's the reality. But do you see what I mean? So he now knows how to talk to women

because of us, but what's happening is they're trying to I don't think they're not purposely trying to force it, but what's happening is those of people are saying, you know what, let's just use dating apps. It's easier. No one can do me for harassment of dating apps.

But then it's a massive letdown because you go meet this person and nothing like their pictures. This is why I don't use dating apps, by the way, because there's been so many times I've been in a bar and a guy's walked in, not my type, not my physical type. And it's just the way he moves, something he says, some behavioural trigger. I don't know what it was. It just made me go, hmm, that's interesting. I would never get that from a one-dimensional photograph.

No, absolutely. And we're talking about jokes now and negging is a big thing and I see a lot of guys doing negging. Where do you stand on it? Do you agree with it? Because sometimes I see a bloke doing it and I'm like, mate, you just sound like a fucking prick.

Yeah, you've got to do it properly. So if you're being, you know, if you say to a woman something like, I'm trying to think of like, I don't really teach negging. I use double-sided compliments rather than nagging because negging can come across like an insult.

That, for most of them are just like, exactly, you're being a jerk. So I use double-sided compliments. Like I'll say to a guy, say to a woman, look, you know, you look great. Use a very vague compliment and then add on a detailed suggestion of how she can look even better. So, you know, you look great. This is actually not a joke. So sort of, it's not comical.

But it's kind of like, it's a spin-off from negging. You say, you know, you look great. But you know what? If you're wearing, and I'm sorry, I love stripper high heels, like those really tacky plastic was, I'd be making a move on you now. And something like that actually says to the girl, you are sexually escalating with her, but you're not. You're saying, you look nice, you look hot. So you're sort of cushioning the blow. I want to be there when you say that to Ellic. Oh, mate, she'll eviscerate me. If you do it properly, it works. I mean, look, I mentioned the

plastic hills because, you know, some guys have this fetish. They do like it. Most guys don't, I found, but some guys are like, I really like girls wearing those. Turkey Hills. I shouldn't say it because it'll make me look like it is a fetish and I've got really bad taste. I'm like, no, no, no, own it. Do you remember that Chris Rock? Yeah, clear heels. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no, he had another one which is when guys want to do anal. No. It's like, it's like, oh, please, please can I do it? Please, just a little bit or something. Or something like that's like anal or something like that. And he said the other guy's just like totally unapologetic for what he wants, what turns him on. I don't think it was anal. I think it was

something a little bit more personal than that even. But he was just totally, he's like, be unapologetic about it. That's your thing. That's what you want. And the guys that's kind of like unsure and uncertain about showing what his desire is, you know, what his fetish is, that's going to then look creepy. There's no such real thing as creepy. It's basically, if you come across uncertain, ashamed or embarrassed by what turns you

are, that will come across as creepy. The guy that's like, this is what I'm into, take or leave it. The girl might say he's too bold, that's a bit too confident, but she won't say creepy. That's the guy's biggest fear is being a creep. It's the biggest fear. All our students, it's bigger than rejection. It's like, okay, I can handle a rejection, but not if she's rejected me because I'm creepy. Do you think that's got worse than the age of social media where someone could go,

oh, this creepy guy, you know, whatever else? No, I haven't seen that. I haven't seen any evidence of that. Oh, that's interesting, because I would have thought that we were the age of, you know, reputation, online reputation, that they'd be more worried about it. I have, honestly, I have, I've been very honest throughout this whole interview. So I would tell you if I've noticed, no. I think this might be a personal fear. Yeah, yeah, it's just me.

Just your fear. But you're right. I think that is. But it's interesting, like, I'm just processing some of the examples that you're giving. And admittedly, I don't go out and try. and meet women, but I just, it sounds very kind of non-2019, if you know what I mean. And I wonder what you make of this, like, I mean, for example, actually the question I was going to ask you is about these people who are in sales or who are part of this men go in their own weight thing. You presumably, your advice to them would be to up their game, right, and to get better and to go out there and learn how to meet people's opposite sex.

They don't even, yeah, it hasn't, the level of game that we were teaching in 2006 hasn't evolved because it's essentially still, it's the same principles. That's interesting, so it's the same principles. Nothing has really changed because deep down women want... The only thing you've got is you've got less competition now, guys, because all the other guys are on scrolling through apps. Our students are cleaning up right now. They are cleaning up.

Time to end our relationship, right? sign up I've got no game I'm terrible with men that's why I don't teach I don't teach women to poor men you don't teach women to pull men

it's fucking easy for a woman if you're a good looking woman you don't need oh come on you don't need a game no you just walk in

everyone's like yeah that'll do great no what really okay so um I take students into strip clubs to prove this to them

I love strip clubs um and I take them to this particular one. I said, which woman do you think is doing really well here? And they always picked the five foot ten blonde, you know, the most striking, beautiful woman in the room. I'm like, look at her, because they put their money in this heavenly money and they put their money in a garter. I'm like, look, look by the end of the night who's got more money in. That one or that one. And I'll

point to a girl who's plain, really like plain Jane. And they're like, all right, fine, you're on. I said, and watch them work the room. Now, guys in the go to strip clubs, they're there, to see tits and, you know, that's it. It's just, it's purely aesthetics. That's why they're in there. Okay, it's visual. And yet, the plain girl will make most of money. You know why? Because she has game. The other one's relying on her looks. So she will get the initial dancers. Guys will go and say, I want that one, you know. And she'll do her dances and she's got no chat. Boring as shit. And then this other girl has had to rely on her game and her banter and her wit. and that sheer ambition, that desire.

Okay, and that she's coming from a very positive place, the other one, very positive. Like, I'm going to kill it tonight. I am going to clean up tonight. And all this combined makes her almost like a machine, this girl. The guy's like had his three dancers when she approached him. He's like, what do you want? She's not even that hard. Like, what do you want?

You can see that's the initial, that's her initial, the reaction that she experiences. and she just plows, plows. And suddenly it's like the guy's just spending all his money. And I'm like, watch. This is guys who are only interested, supposedly in look. And that girl is running rings around the good-looking girl. That's the power of game.

If a woman can do, imagine what a man can do because women are less visual. Apart from me, I'm pretty do. I'm a sucker for looks. But even me, I've got my limit where I'm like, okay, he's just boring. I can't fancy this guy, even if he's really hot. So I take them to the strip club and only when they see this happening, do they get it?

They're like, yeah, it's all game. Well, the appeal of your courses goes up and up and up as we get more details. You understand. This has been a one hour infomercial with me. I've been sneaking that it has been one hour because our last question, and thank you for the interview. We've really enjoyed it. Our last question is always the same, which is what is the one thing that no one is talking about that we should be talking about.

I've got two. You choose, okay? It's either scrolling through phones. Okay, people really need to talk about how smartphones are the source of all evil. Okay, this needs to be addressed, not internet, smartphones. Or we can talk about cats and dogs. You pick. Let's go to smartphones.

Yeah, let's do smartphone. Oh, right. You put the hard one. I'm saying, please pick cats and dogs. Okay. So, you see this whole thing about anxiety and depression that's coming out? I'm really kind of, I don't know about this. I'm in two minds about this one because I think a lot of anxiety and stuff is coming from those

fucking phones. And I'm just like, put away your phone, look up, smell the roses, enjoy life, you know, and you'll be less anxious and you'll be less depressed and you'll be human again and you won't be like some walking zombie. I just don't think it's being talked about enough. I think everyone's got, everyone's just kind of so lost. in this phone just walking around like this and I see people with their dogs. This is really sad.

People with their kids, it's even worse. The people, they're walking their dogs and the dog's sitting there. And they're looking at their phone and dogs got the ball in his mouth waiting for you to throw the ball and you're just on your phone. And I see that because I have a dog. So I walk my dog a lot of time and I never look at that phone. I really don't unless it's like I've got to do something. And I just see people not talking to each other, people in restaurants on their phone,

people ignoring their dogs, ignoring their children, just looking at their phone. And I just think, this is, this is the breakdown. This is it. It's not the internet. It's not social media. It's having access. I have social media, but I have no social media on my phone, apart from Instagram, which someone else looks after.

I have no social media apps on that phone. I can live without it. I can go home, log on when I have to update or check something. Remember the old days? You have to log on on your computer. And it was like, it was finite. You know, it was like, all right, hour. I've got to go into another room now or something, right?

When it's that, you know, infinite kind of information, entertainment, that access to it, I think that's destroying society. You did manage to get the dogs in the answer. I feel really strongly about this, and I did a whole episode on it. It's just this, look at it, look at when you go out, look at the restaurants, look at teenagers, not talking to each other. I used to love meeting my friends when I was like 12. That's like the happiest point of our lives.

you know, 10, 12, I'm seeing my friend, you know, I can talk, I can play with them. And it's when the parents can kind of say, you know what, you're old enough now where I don't need to entertain you, you can entertain each other. First thing they do is give them phones and they're sitting there in silence. I see it all the time. And if I do something on my phone, I actually say to my son, I'm going to be on it for two minutes. I'm going to ignore you for two minutes. I've got to finish his text or something.

And he knows, I don't just sit there in this kind of like a vortex of scrolling. see it all the time and I think it's causing anxiety, depression, it's breaking down our social communication, the way we feel, just everything, every little bit's been poisoned with these smartphones. I totally agree. It's a really good point. Let me ask you a bonus question, actually. Is that a bit crap, everybody?

Sorry. Do you agree with me on this, apart from you? No, no, I'll agree with you on this. We all agree with you. We've had loads of guests talking about it. Oh, sorry. No, no, no, no. I don't mean it in that way. We've had several people mention that it's important and we couldn't agree more.

But listen, guys, I've done something about it. I don't use the phone, so you can do it too. You can do it. Don't use the phone. Just only in emergencies. The question I was going to ask you, I was at the Edinburgh Festival for the whole month this year. And another comedian had a dog there since you brought up the subject of dogs that she needed walked while she was doing a show. and a couple of times I took the dog.

I did not realize how much of a pussy magnet, a dog is. Oh my God, it's more effective with Aston Martin. We did the test. So my friend has an Aston Martin, and he was like going around, and I was in the car, and I was like, all the girls are looking at him. What is that? And then I was like, watch this little guy coming along down the street. He's got, what was the French Bulldog.

I was like, watch all the eyes go on him and just like away from you. And he's like, no, and then Aston Martin will do his job. It's James Bond's car. It's fine. And he just didn't exist anymore. It was that dog. I leave my, sometimes my friend borrow my dog. Like, can I just borrow your dog?

When I go to a bar or pub or something, then you have the dog on their lap and just like all these girls around, say, you know, talking about the dog. And I just think guys need to capitalize on that. I teach guys to get a dog, approach women when you're walking your dog and they're walking their dog. It's a great way to meet women. There you go.

There you go. If you're an insult, get a dog. Yeah. On that happy note, we will see you in a week from now and goodbye. Thank you. See you later, guys.