TRIGGERnometry - "DeSantis Will LOSE to Trump" - Dr Sebastian Gorka

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Starting point is 00:00:36 SelectQuote.com. That's selectquote.com. Select Quote. We shop. You save. Full details on example policies at selectquote.com slash commercials. This is a KGB officer who persecuted Christians for a living and is a thug and a murderer. I still don't understand how anyone who has at least a triple-digit IQ, can say the Russian Federation and Putin are the good guys. What do you make of the fact that a lot of people on your side

Starting point is 00:01:09 are celebrating a 21-year-old who's stolen secret documents, and they're calling this person a whistleblower. Worse than that, they're calling him a hero. My theory is that they are whispering sweet nothings in his ear saying, you're the guy, you're the guy. You're the guy. And he's being exploited by the establishment rhino class. Do you think he stands a chance?

Starting point is 00:01:36 No. And I'm sorry, Ron DeSantis doesn't have the balls or the maturity to do it. So for me, the reason I am voting for President Trump and supporting him, I need somebody to come back into the city and burn the corrupt shithole to the ground. Hello and welcome to Trigonometry on the road. from the USA. I'm Francis Foster. I'm Constantine Kissen. And this is a show for you if you want honest conversations with fascinating people. Our fantastic and returning guest today is an author counterterrorism expert and of course former deputy assistant to the president of the United States.

Starting point is 00:02:27 Dr. Sebastian Gorker, welcome to Trigonometry. Welcome to the Gorka headquarters. Oh, thank you very much for having us. We've had a couple of great days doing fun stuff, but here we are doing serious stuff. Now, we've been friends for a long time. We know you well. A lot of our audience do not. And one of the things they won't know about you is the background, the backstory, your family's history that informs a lot of your views. So tell us who are you, Seb, and what has been your journey through life? Well, my journey through life is informed by who my parents were and what they suffered during World War II and after World War II.

Starting point is 00:03:01 So my parents were kids in Hungary, in Budapest, suffered under... Nazi occupation at the end of the war. And then after the war ended and communism was imposed, my father was a young college student who wanted to resist the new regime, created a secret student organization of Christian students who were patriots, eventually was betrayed by Kim Filby, one of the greatest traders of that Cold War period, one of the Cambridge Apostles, was arrested at the age of 20, tortured and given a life sentence in a communist jail. He served six years, two years in a prison coal mine, two years in solitary, and then was eventually liberated by the Freedom Fighters of 1956.

Starting point is 00:03:49 He escaped to the West with a 17-year-old daughter of a fellow prisonmate, who ended up as his wife and my mother, and they made it to the UK. I was born and raised in the UK, my first language was Hungarian, and then when the war fell, speaking Hungarian, having a bit of a bit of background in national security because I served in the British TA in the Intelligence Corps. I got a job working for the first freely elected Hungarian government in the defense ministry. So I packed up, moved from London to Budapest, spent five years in the Hungarian government, met my wife in Europe and American, started doing some work in counterterrorism for the American

Starting point is 00:04:26 government doing a training course out of Germany after 9-11. And then one morning in 2008, literally my wife and I worked. woke up and said, it's time to go, we've done our dues, we've tried to help Hungary get back on track, moved to the US, ended up as a professor of irregular war for encounterism for the Pentagon, wrote a book called Defeating Jihad on the ideology of groups like al-Qaeda and ISIS, and that propelled me to the White House to work for President Trump. Now I do a daily radio show called America First, three hours of political commentary, and a weekly TV show for Newsmax called The Gorker Reality Check.

Starting point is 00:05:04 That in a very, as brief as I can make it is my trip and my thing is strategy, politics, conservatism and understanding the threats to the good guys in the West. Well, we'll talk about all of that. And when we were on Rogan last year, having come from here, actually, I described you as a Trump attack dog, which I think is fair. You have a reputation for that. I think the telegraphed called me Trump's pit bull. Right.

Starting point is 00:05:30 That's a great way of saying it too. And we're going to get to President Trump later. But actually, we wanted to start by talking to you about, A, national security and foreign affairs, but B, also what is happening within the Conservative movement and the right around those issues. So what have you made of the way that some people have responded to Putin's invasion of Ukraine on your own team? So before I joined the White House, I was teaching for the Marine Corps. and at the same time I was moonlighting as National Security Editor for Breitbart. I didn't need the job.

Starting point is 00:06:07 Okay, Bannon saw me speak somewhere, invited me for a chat, said, will you be my National Security QC guy? And I said, I'm not really interested. And I threw out a stupid number. And he said yes. And that's when you go, oh, crap, okay. So the reason I was in principle interested in doing that, what, 10 years ago, was because of the porcity I saw on the right of,

Starting point is 00:06:31 serious discussion on national security. Because back then, you had two options. If you are a conservative in America, you could be a crazy neocon saying, let's invade places and turn them into democracies at the end of a gun barrel, which is lunacy, the wolf of it is of the world, the Bush administration. Or you could be an isolationist and say,

Starting point is 00:06:51 screw everybody, we don't care, anything beyond the Pacific and the Atlantic is irrelevant, and they can all go to hell. And I thought, you know, you can be a little bit more nuanced than that. There is a palette of options. And the idea that you can isolate yourself from the rest of the world after 9-11 or in the cyber age is just as stupid as thinking you can turn Afghanistan into Switzerland. So that's why I did it. Today, 10 years later, it is by magnitudes worse on our side. It is, this is perhaps beyond everything the left is doing to this country,

Starting point is 00:07:24 in my estimation, open borders, millions of illegal immigrants, fentanyl poisonings, on and on and on the economy. For me, the thing that galls me the most every single day. And I have people on my Twitter feed, you know, get in touch with the radio show, who call themselves conservatives or Republicans and who say things like Vladimir Putin is the savior of Western civilization and a great Christian. And I'm going, you do know, you don't have to be a Cold War child like me, but you do know this is a KGB officer who persecuted Christians for a living and is a thug and a murderer. And people are saying, oh, well, he's justified in invading Ukraine because we provoked him. What? What are you talking? A nation like Ukraine, which has ranked 22nd in the world in military power,

Starting point is 00:08:21 is threatening a nation ranked second that has more than 4,000 nuclear warheads. And you're telling me we provoked it or Ukraine provoked it. So I am horrified. We had this discussion over cigars last night. I still don't understand how anyone who has at least a triple digit IQ can say the Russian Federation and Putin are the good guys. So to answer your question in brief, we have a lot of bloody work to do to educate people on my team about the reality of geopolitical. And you don't have to be a geek about it like me, just a fact. Well, let's do that then, because the interesting thing is that I think, as you say,

Starting point is 00:09:09 not a lot of people are educated on either way. What is the national security interest for this country in supporting Ukraine? So you can answer that at a very prosaic level that is intuitive, and then you can go to the geopolitical level. The prosaic one, look, everybody's gone to school, okay? Okay, or everybody's being a member of a club or the Boy Scouts or the football team or what have you Everybody knows what a bully is Everybody's seen a bully operate now When does a bully stop being an asshole when you break their nose when you bust them in the nose

Starting point is 00:09:44 If you don't stand up if somebody doesn't stand up to a bully on the playground or in Eastern Europe The bully proceeds to continue to bully the vulnerable the idea that whatever reason or excuse is provided, a nuclear-tipped nation with 11 time zones can break a taboo that has been in place since 1945 in Europe, which means you must not aggrandize your territory through use of force is dangerous to every decent nation, every decent person.

Starting point is 00:10:18 And if you want to go to the Wonkish level, do your homework about Vladimir Putin or any aspect. I love the bio-lab stuff. Oh, really? The bio labs was the reason. Who's thinking built the biolabs? The Soviet Union built the biolabs. It wasn't Condoleezza Rice and George Bush that built the, you know,

Starting point is 00:10:39 bio labs. So get a little bit of your factual ducks in order. But specifically, a little bit of homework. Who is Vladimir Putin beyond a KGB officer? A Siloviki, a member of the Nomenclatura's National Security Enterprise. He's a man who's since becoming president for 21 years has been giving speeches about the illegitimacy of Ukraine as an independent nation, the illegitimacy of the Baltic states, the illegitimity of Poland as an independent nation, that all should be subsumed into the Rodina, into Mother Russia.

Starting point is 00:11:12 And you think, well, those are the states that border Russia. Those are the states who are fully paid up members of NATO. So you think this won't have consequences that a man who has already proven that he will keep his promises to use force to take territory, wants to take Poland, the Baltic states, he must be sent a message.

Starting point is 00:11:36 You are not permitted to do that. And if you just want to be very pedestrian about it, he's a bully who has to be given a bloody nose. And, Seb, what would you say to those people who provide a more nuanced argument and go, look, we have been an antagonistic presence. in that area of the world. And Ukraine is a buffer zone or a buffer nation,

Starting point is 00:11:58 and it's rapidly becoming more westernized. He sees this as a threat to Russia, and he sees himself encroached on practically all sides by pro-Western nations. Right. Encroached by what? What is the quality of that... If we're going to use the language of moral equivalency and the terminology of the Kremlin propagandists,

Starting point is 00:12:19 what is the encroachment? It's the encroachment of... Western values of representative government. That's the problem for Putin. The Putin, it isn't, we're an empire invading Ukraine, invading the Baltics, invading the, I worked. My job was to get Hungary into NATO

Starting point is 00:12:36 when I worked for the Hungarian Defense Ministry. We were desperate to get back in. Why? Did we want to be a satrapy, a slave state of a, you know, a Western Empire? No, we wanted to be part of what? A member of a group of nations that is part of the West, that has representative government, that has free markets.

Starting point is 00:12:57 So again, let's translate it into prosaic terms. What is NATO? What is the EU? They're clubs. Nobody's forced to join the EU or not. Nobody puts a gun to the prime minister's head of Sweden and says, you must join. You have to want to join, and you have to hit certain membership requirements. In NATO's case, it's very, very easy.

Starting point is 00:13:21 read the 14 points of the Washington Treaty, it just says, you must have a representative democratic government and you must contribute to the collective defense of the club. Okay. Well, if Poland wants to join, if Hungary wants to join, if Ukraine wants to join, why does another nation that's outside of the club get to have a veto? I mean, imagine if you're into movies, right? Like me. You joined the BFI, the British Film Institute.

Starting point is 00:13:50 I was a member when I lived in England. What if your neighbor said, you know, he's a bookworm and he thinks he's a Luddite and he thinks that movies are evil? Would you be okay with your neighbor saying you have no right to join the BFI voluntarily? You say, are you on drugs? Excuse me? No, I have a right to join any association that I can meet the requirements of. So this whole idea that we're an empire. How did we gobble up these nations?

Starting point is 00:14:21 They applied it. It was tough for Hungary. We had to bump up our defense spending. We had to say, yeah, these are the things we will contribute within a year to NATO. We will have a training center. These are things that are voluntary. But another nation that's outside gets to stop you. That's just nuts. You know, I agree with you on a lot of this stuff, obviously.

Starting point is 00:14:44 But the obvious counter argument to this is if Mexico wanted to do. join the Warsaw Pact? Would America just let that happen? That's a Cold War context, right? So America would do its downdest to stop that, but there would be no moral or other justification for us to invade Mexico to stop that. We would cease to be America. If we said Mexico has decided, if there's a referendum, if it's not some kind of dictatorship. If Mexico decided the idea that, what, we're going to invade you to stop you doing something you voluntarily want to do, we might use force if what happened in Afghanistan happened

Starting point is 00:15:31 in Mexico. What happened in Afghanistan, Christmas of 79? The spats and ours were deployed, went in and assassinated the prime minister. And then the tanks were holding and said, oh, Afghanistan is now part of the broader association. The fraternal people's of Afghanistan. Oh, yeah, friendly nations, right? So, you know, it's, again, what is missing with these arguments is the moral content. It's the obvious fallacy of the Tromskyite Michael Moore moral equivalency, that, you know,

Starting point is 00:16:01 the West is just another version of the East, or NATO is just another version of a Warsaw Pact. No, it's not. When you joined the Warsaw Pact, you were told to join the Warsaw Pact. Give you one interesting example. What was one of the biggest problems with NATO? It's a wonky phrase called interoperability. We're all free nations. And everybody had their own vested interests and proclivities.

Starting point is 00:16:24 I'm a gun guy. We had, at the height of NATO, a dozen different kinds of assault rifle for troops, right? Brits had the FN, America had the M-16, the Belgians had, you know, FNC. Why? Because we chose them. And they also packed. How many types of guns did you have? One. Good old day.

Starting point is 00:16:46 Good old IK. And then how many types of uniform? Think about this. Across NATO, everybody had, it was a nightmare. We had DPM camo in England. The French had their kind of uniforms across the whole of the Warsaw Pact. You had the massive hats, the big appellets. Why?

Starting point is 00:17:08 Because you didn't choose how to defend yourself. You were told by the Frunza Academy, you were told by the general staff in Moscow. You will have the T-72, you will have these uniforms, and you will have an AK. There's no moral equivalence. There's no qualitative equivalence to East and West, despite what Tromsky and others would have, you believe. And, Seb, what do you say to those people who go, look, we're funneling billions to Ukraine? Look at what's happening in our inner cities.

Starting point is 00:17:34 Look what's happening with the fentanyl crisis. Look what's happening with the unemployment. Look at the debt. How can we possibly justify this? Yeah, this is like the Tucker Carlson wing of... of the party here. And it's intuitive, it's a seductive argument. I mean, think about just, I did the figures for my TV show recently. If you add up all the combat deaths by suffered by the United States since the end of World War II, so that's Korea, that's Vietnam, that's post-9-11, Afghanistan,

Starting point is 00:18:03 that's Gulf 1 and Gulf 2. If you add all of the war fighters killed in combat for over 70 years, it's 7,000,000 combat deaths. Last year, according to Biden's CDC, the Center for Disease Control in America, according to this regime's CDC, 110,000 Americans were killed by overdoses, mostly from fentanyl. So you go, what? More people, more civilians died in 12 months in America because of open borders than died in 70 years of combat, in Southeast Asia, in Afghanistan. So it's kind of like, whoa.

Starting point is 00:18:44 But that's not how politics works. These aren't mut- you can't, as we say in America, you've got to be able to walk and chew gum at the same time. Just because we have a border crisis doesn't mean that Ukraine is irrelevant and doesn't mean that if we don't do something about it now, it won't get worse. What are we going to do if he invades the Baltic states? I mean, we have an Article 5, Britain, the US has an Article 5 commitment to the Baltic states, to Hungary, to Poland.

Starting point is 00:19:12 If they are invaded by another nation, they are obliged. We are obliged to respond, which during the Cold War meant what? Nuclear war. Are we prepared to do that? Or should we do something about it now to make sure it doesn't get to that point? From the beginning of this conflict 14 months ago, I wrote a piece, I think it was for Breitbart on my substack, where I said, we must stop this, but not by boots on the ground. I don't want the 82nd airborne to be deployed to Kiev.

Starting point is 00:19:40 It's Kiev, by the way, guys. Okay. You know, Kiev, you don't say, Paris. Okay. I've said from the beginning, we must help them help themselves. Mm-hmm. And the argument I used to kind of take the legs from under conservatives

Starting point is 00:19:56 who say, screw Ukraine is, oh, okay. Is 1776 important to you? The Revolutionary War that created America? Oh, it is. You believe that America should have split from King George And what would have happened if Spain, France, and Holland hadn't supported Washington, George Washington. Where we are sitting now would be part of the British Commonwealth. Damn those French.

Starting point is 00:20:26 No, seriously. So just to translate it, I don't want to fight for Ukrainians because we're not an empire. But to help them fight for themselves is what we should be doing. your first point, shoveling plain loads of cash to an immensely corrupt regime. Look, I think Zelensky's... It's Eastern Europe, of course is corrupt. It's dumb. So at the beginning I wrote an article, three things we need to do.

Starting point is 00:20:53 Number one, we need to supply them with the means they need to protect themselves. Mostly ammunition. They need artillery pieces. Number two, equipment which they can actually use. This asinine thing that we're sending them, Abraham's... tanks. Abraham tanks have more than a dozen different types of fluid to run them. A T-72 has oil and diesel, right? Ukrainians don't know how to use, haven't had the training for F-16s or whatever else. We have stockpiles of Warsaw-era, Warsaw-packed-era stuff in Hungary, in Poland, the Czech Republic, Slovakia. Give them equipment they can use. Number two, and the third

Starting point is 00:21:31 one is provide, we are peerless. America's ISR, so our intelligence, surveillance, reconnaissance, capabilities or satellites, nobody comes close to us. Give them the real-time target data packs so they can make the Russians bleed in Ukraine. That's what we do. But not pallets of cash, not billions of dollars in the space of one year. That's where, that's my nuanced approach between the isolationists and the send their 82nd airborne. My brother-in-law died suddenly, and now my sister and her kids have to sell their home. That's why I told my husband, we could not put off getting life insurance any longer. An agent offered us a 10-year $500,000 policy

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Starting point is 00:22:32 For your free quote, go to selectquote.com. SelectQuote.com. That's selectquote.com. Select quote. We shop. You save. Full details on example policies at selectquote.com slash commercials. Hello, saver. Whether you're saving for that trip to the tropics or saving for an emergency, now is the time to take advantage of Wells Fargo savings options. Wells Fargo offers savings accounts that can help you save towards your goals. So, what are you saving for? visit a Wells Fargo branch or Wells Fargo.com backslash save to open a savings account today. Wells Fargo Bank, N.A. member FDIC. Now, Seb, at the risk of giving you an aneurysm, what do you make of the fact that a lot of people on your side are celebrating a 21-year-old who's stolen secret documents and published them that is detrimental to the United States and the Ukraine?

Starting point is 00:23:35 interests and they're calling this person a whistleblower and... Worse than that, they're calling him a hero. So I saw this the day you guys arrived in the US and I tweeted it out and I said, do I tweet this because the flack I'm going to get from my side? I said, yes, I saw it, I'm going to tweet it. I said, are you seriously... We have quote unquote, conservatives who are calling this Massachusetts National Guard Airman.

Starting point is 00:24:05 Not only a whistleblower, a hero. Well, A, you should look up the definition of whistleblower. Because he didn't give the documents to Matt Gates, one of the most anti-establishment conservatives on Capitol Hill. He didn't give them to Breitbart News to publish, or he didn't give them to a committee of Congress to investigate. Whistleblowers actually a legal term in America. It comes from the Whistleblower Act.

Starting point is 00:24:30 You have to actually go through a formal procedure with the opposition to get it out, right? What did he do it? Who did he show it to? 26 guys on his Discord gamer chat room. He was flexing to his buddies to look cool. It wasn't about helping responsible government in America. He was trying to show off. He was a punk.

Starting point is 00:24:56 And people say, well, but it's good. The truth is out, but the motive doesn't matter. Sorry, the difference between self-defense and murder, motives matter. Okay? We have problems with how this war is being managed. This administration has no idea what they're doing when it comes to geopolitics. To quote Obama, this is not apocryphal, you can look it up, to quote Joe Biden's former boss, never underestimate Joe's capacity to F things up. And he has demonstrated that for the last two years. So, yeah, this guy's not a hero. He's not a whistleblower. He's less problematic than I'm going to piss people off. Snowden was or Assange.

Starting point is 00:25:40 But none of these people are heroes, none of them. And it's not because I'm defending the deep state or the establishment. Don't get me wrong. I have a reputation for hating the establishment. But this guy didn't do it to help anybody. He did it to make himself look cool with his buddies. And we now know that there were foreign nationals on their discord, including IP addresses from Russia.

Starting point is 00:26:04 That's a problem. Seb, I'm not part of any side. I know, you guys don't like tribes. Yeah, I've heard that many times. Yeah, so, but, you know, in the 90s and the naughties, you know, you had the left, you know, and I associated with them, and they had these funky ideas, and you were just like, well, they're progressives, you know, they are what they are,

Starting point is 00:26:27 they're going to have these funky ideas. The right, I mean, they were always kind of boring. They always had their own way of looking at, the world and, you know, conservative and all the rest of it. But your lot have gone mental. A lot of them have. What, the left hasn't gone mental. The left have gone mental, but your boys have gone tonto as well.

Starting point is 00:26:44 What's going on? Why is this happening? Tell me who first, because there's a lot of choices. When it comes to tontoes on both sides, there's a lot of choices. What do you find the most nutty? So I have no problem with people saying who are isolationists and go, America first. I get that I understand. I may disagree with it, but there is a logic behind their argument.

Starting point is 00:27:07 But just things, but the depths of conspiracy that they see in Ukraine and saying things like, oh, you know, this is an example, you know, crisis actors, you know, Zelensky's wearing combat trousers, therefore it's not a real, whatever they're saying. And these are people on the right, and they've become more and more anti-establishment. But not just, you can be anti-establishment. but with arguments that patently don't make sense. Well, we should have started filming yesterday because I think we're discussing this till the wee hours.

Starting point is 00:27:42 I've actually developed a new TV show that deals exclusively with this problem of conspiracies. It's called Conspiracy Chronicles. I'm not pushing back, but my response would be this is not a conservative phenomena. This is a Western civilization phenomenon. Well, I agree with that, sure. Whether you believe a 14-year-old,

Starting point is 00:28:04 girl can become a man or whether you think, as some people on our side would state, President Trump is still secretly the president and there are 5,000 unsealed indictments he's about to deploy to arrest the deep state. They're all insane. So you have Q or on and you have blue or not? Blue or not? Yeah, right. So why do we have that? Many reasons. I would, but the two biggest ones is the failure of the education system. The primary problem here is critical thought. There's clickbatory and there's online tribes that you cannot get out of once you're in because the individuals in them do not have the barest tool set provided to them by the schools they went to to have critical thought. Let's stay with the bio-labs thing, right? Putin has

Starting point is 00:29:00 had to invade because they're about to launch a biological attack on Russia from Ukrainian labs. Okay, so if I have a modicum of critical thought, I'll punch into a search engine Ukrainian biolabs. And I want to find what, the source of them? Where did they originate from? And when I found out what, they are part of bioprepairat, the biggest illegal chemical and biological weapons empire, which is created by the Soviet Union before the ink was dry on the the treaty with Nixon banning all chemical and bio. Before the treaty was dry, they were building the biggest illicit WMD complex in the world with labs that were making anthrax, making botulinum, making chemical weapons.

Starting point is 00:29:45 And they put them where in the satellite republics, including Ukraine? When it all fell apart, Christmas Day 1991, which is a great Christmas present, there's legacy capacities. What did the West do? Ooh, the Soviets have been cheating for 20 years. You know what? To protect us from maybe some of this stuff getting into the wrong hands, like, oh, what, terrorists?

Starting point is 00:30:10 We should find out what the sores we're doing in these labs. So let's get a bit of money and say, oh, you need a new microscope, you need a new printer. We'll pay for that if you let us come and have a look what you were developing illegally for Moscow. Now, that might take you, what, 30 minutes? But to say, a nation with nuclear weapons is afraid of legacy capabilities they built in those states when they were captive nations. It's just stupidity.

Starting point is 00:30:43 It's rank ignorance. The second part, which is the exact, you actually added a third one yesterday. The second part is what has the general public learned in the last, let's go from Gulf War I, last 32 years about government. In the UK, in the US, everywhere in the West, what do they learn? They lie more than we even imagine they lie. From dodgy dossiers to Russian collusion of President Trump, the vast majority of the conventional wisdom is being shown to be fallacious and deliberately so.

Starting point is 00:31:23 So there has developed not a skepticism to the establishment's narrative, but but a cynicism. If the BBC says it, if the White House says it, if Tent Downing Street says it, the first thing my reaction should be is it's a lie. It's the opposite of the truth. Number two. Third thing, and you pointed this out, social media.

Starting point is 00:31:45 Social media, I mean, not only do you have access to the things you would never know 30 years ago because somebody held up an iPhone while, you know, Jay-Z was doing something she shouldn't have been doing, right? he was doing. You also have what? The dopamine, outrage, clickbatory that incentivizes what

Starting point is 00:32:09 in media today? Speed, not truth. I need to be the first person with that story. Whether it's real or not, it doesn't matter. I need to be the first person so I get the clicks, so my advertisers happy. Those three things together

Starting point is 00:32:23 are the key reasons for why today conspiracy theories are out. of control on left and right. Yeah. But I'm going to sort out the right so you guys can swear out the left. I don't think they're going to let us that. We're not as popular on the left as we once were, as you probably established.

Starting point is 00:32:44 But also people like Tucker as well. Yeah. So Tucker, you have to put it, you have to know a little bit about American history. Tucker is a revivification of the America First of your of 80 years ago. Or if you want to be a little bit less, less. you know, problematic because that movement had racist overtones. The Buchananite. He's a hardcore neo-Buchananite.

Starting point is 00:33:06 Pat Buchanan was such an isolationist. He lives not far from here, famous conservative politician around for president. He actually has written books saying America should never have got involved in World War II. That branch of conservatism is being resuscitated today by, you know, the people who like Tucker. What I find odd about that is I think, you know, 100 years ago, that made a lot more sense.

Starting point is 00:33:31 But in the world that you live in now... Today's world of dreadliners and internet. It's ridiculous. Yeah. And Seb, one of the things that I found interesting is your former boss, who we're going to get onto in a second. He argued that the war in Ukraine would never have happened if he was still in office. And I agree with that. As you know, I was not a massive fan of his, but I agree with that part of it.

Starting point is 00:33:55 I'm glad you put that in the past day. because you're on that. Yeah, I'm all MAGA now. We got it, we got it. Absolutely. Absolutely. No. But what troubled me about what he said at the same time was essentially the read I got from what he said is,

Starting point is 00:34:11 I would have forced Ukraine to give things away in order to have peace. And to me, that's a Peaseman 2.0. Yeah, I haven't read that. I haven't seen that, but it's one of the most amusing things. I often, you know, everybody wants to know about my, wherever I go, whatever I want to talk about, sooner or later, what's he really like? And they want to know about him.

Starting point is 00:34:32 And when I get asked, what would President Trump do now about Ukraine? I just laugh, I chortle, because it never would have happened. Let me give you one example that nobody talks about. When we were in the White House, we found out that there were 300 Wagner group guys in Syria. Now, these aren't independent contractors.

Starting point is 00:34:50 These work for the Kremlin, right? They were, you know, they're the deniable little green men for the Kremlin. And President Trump found out that they were destabilizing Syria. What did he do? He did something, not even Ronald Reagan, or any president, since they stormed the Winter Palace in 1917 did. He told the Secretary of Defense,

Starting point is 00:35:07 kill them all now. Within 48 hours, 300 Wagner Group mercaries were pink-missed. Vladimir Putin didn't even hold a press conference. He so shat himself. That's what the bad guys think of my informer. boss, whether it's little Kim in North Korea, whether it's the Muller's, whether it's ISIS, or whether it's Putin. They fear this man, which is good, which is good, because he loves America and he's not a dictator as the left would have you believe. He loves

Starting point is 00:35:40 this country. I'm not sure about he would have told them to give stuff away, and even if he said that, I would say it never would have happened, so it's above-vo irrelevant. You never, Look at the last 16 years of politics. When was Georgia and South Ossetia invaded under Obama? Under George W. Bush. When was Crimea taken under Obama? Then there's a Cezura and there's for four years. Putin doesn't do anything.

Starting point is 00:36:10 What were those four years? Oh, when we were in the White House. That's weird. So the guy that we are told is the Russian puppet of Putin. under his tenure, Putin didn't invade anybody. We leave the White House. Biden surrenders in Afghanistan. And I know what happened in the Kremlin.

Starting point is 00:36:31 The second, 13 of our war fighters were murdered by ISIS in Bagram. And that last jet takes off with literally people hanging on the wheel well. Thousands of people dying, clinging to our aircraft. Vlad said, all right, boys, get the tanks ready. We're rolling. So it never would have happened under President Trump. And that's why we need him back in the White House. And how do you solve this now?

Starting point is 00:36:57 Final question on Ukraine. How does this get resolved? As soon as this man is reelected, if conservatives can achieve that, the conflict will stop immediately in terms of active engagement, and President Trump will engage. And behind closed doors, he will do what he does the most. He will be very undiplomatic, and he will make you very clear that this cannot continue. The question is how does Kiev respond to that? You are far better versed in that.

Starting point is 00:37:33 You've been there, you have family there. I don't know what is conscionable for Kiev right now, what isn't? Are they prepared to write off Don Bass and Crimea or not? I can't predict that. But President Trump will deploy the art of the deal in very undiplomatic terms behind closed doors and tell Vladimir Putin that it must stop, otherwise there will be, all he does, he doesn't go into detail,

Starting point is 00:37:56 so there will be very serious ramifications for you as a nation. And Putin will acquiesce. Will Kiev acquiesce, and under what terms of who controls which territory, that cannot be predicted? You said if this man is re-elected. Yes. So let's talk about that.

Starting point is 00:38:15 Yeah. He's way ahead of DeSantis in the polls. However, this is something that when we got a little tour of the Capitol the other day, someone said to us, Desantis is further ahead than Reagan and Nixon before they announced. So how good, I mean, right now it's looking good for President Trump. Yes, very good. However, he's just been indicted on 34 charges. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:38:42 Does that help him? Does that hinder him? Well, it has so far. It's given him a bump. He's now the highest he's been in a long time since January the 6th. Joe Biden has sunk to the second lowest he's ever been, 42% popularity since he became president. And also, I don't know when this is going to air, but in the week of the indictment, since the indictment, President Trump raised $12 million as a result of the indictment.

Starting point is 00:39:06 So whether it's polling, whether it's money, this has given him a boost, the likes of which you don't get with a TV ad campaign or 100 rallies. So he's doing well. whether he wins or not is a function of one thing predominantly. Let's remember, this is the man who received in 2020 more votes than any incumbent president in history. 74 million Americans voted for President Trump. This is a really piquant fact.

Starting point is 00:39:34 He's the only president in history to ever get more votes in his second election and not to win. Which is really weird, isn't it? Not only that, he's a man who was vilified, for four years nonstop by the establishment, called a racist, a misogynist, an Islamophobe, a white supremacist, and eventually a Nazi, despite that coming out of the tap 24-7,

Starting point is 00:40:00 he received 10 million more votes in the second election in 20 than he did in 16, which is quite remarkable, and more votes from the black and minority community than any Republican since the 60s. So the basic foundation, the core of his success demonstrably mathematically is there.

Starting point is 00:40:21 The biggest problem is how we run elections in America. When I came here, elections were held on Election Day. I was sometimes traveling, and I could request an absentee ballot. In the state of Virginia, the Commonwealth of Virginia, where I live, I would have to prove why I cannot vote on Election Day. I would have to have a note from my boss. I would have to, you know, I'm sick from a doctor,

Starting point is 00:40:41 or my boss needs to be out of the country. I would have to prove. Before the last presidential election, the Democrats managed to engineer that 81 million, million ballots were sent out to people unrequested. Not, I'm sick or whatever, just en bloc sent out that would be sitting on the stoops of houses, in apartment blocks, in piles, ballots. And that is a recipe for disaster. that the temptation to distort that and President Trump warned us and on top of that we are meant to believe

Starting point is 00:41:19 that an aged individual who is a career politician for 47 years who clearly has some cognitive issues received more votes than the first young, charismatic, black president something is problematic here something doesn't make sense but the question of

Starting point is 00:41:41 will they be able to keep in place in Democrat-controlled states the COVID justification for mailing ballots and for where I live in Virginia, which is asinine we now have a 45-day voting period. It's not election day. It's a month and a half of voting.

Starting point is 00:42:00 I mean look the part I'd agree with you on is the fact that you don't get a result on the same day doesn't make any sense to me the fact that, you know, voter ID is a controversial issue makes no sense to me at all. Well, it does make sense if you want to steal elections. Okay. On the other hand, though, the fact that a president like Joe Biden,

Starting point is 00:42:21 who I don't think commands the love of the people, let's put it mildly, would get so many votes can be quite readily explained by the fact that your former boss is very off-putting to many people. Now, you may dislike that fact, but he is... But that's counted by the fact that he received more votes than any incumbent president. Oh, he did. And at the same time, you could argue that he provoked a lot of people to vote for the opposition too.

Starting point is 00:42:44 So, but what's, then if he didn't win last time and the Democrats have been in charge for four years by the time the next election happened, let's say, we'll talk about the Santa separately, but let's say he's the nominee. What's the route to success? Well, the route to success is what the president has said in his recent truth social video posting, which a lot of concert is a problem. problems with for obvious reasons, but we have to out-organize the Democrats. The Democrats have an amazing ground game.

Starting point is 00:43:16 They have machinery to collect mailing ballots. So we could talk about this for hours. Before the last election, and this is illegal by state statute, a private entity, Mark Zuckerberg's foundation, dropped that we know of, officially, $450 million to help run elections locally. Now, what did that mean? It meant a private entity, which is not permitted, state governments must run elections, was training people to, it's called harvesting ballots, go to places where mailing ballots have been mailed to,

Starting point is 00:43:50 and collect them, and collect them, and bring them to the polling stations. Not only that, they created a system of ballot collection drop boxes, where if you couldn't be asked to mail your vote in or go, to the polling station, within five minutes of your home, at a library or whatever, there'd be a big box that you could drop it in for weeks and weeks and weeks. But the problem was they were all in predominantly Democrat districts. So you made voting easier in Democrat strongholds. And then you have the Nesh de Soussa's movie, 2000 Mules, where we have obtained the public

Starting point is 00:44:28 footage of the CCTV cameras of people dropping literally bundles of ballots at two. or 3 a.m. One guy who's tracked through his cell phone going to 16 different drop boxes in one evening, sorry, who's that? Does he have 300 relatives who are sick? These are happening in states like Georgia where you are, it is a crime to deposit somebody else's vote unless they are a member of your family. So what the president said is, we've just got to be as organized as they are, in those states where these things are still permitted. Because we're a republic of states, there are differences between how elections are run state by state. What has happened since 2020, in many states where the Republicans are in control of the state legislature,

Starting point is 00:45:20 they banned a lot of this stuff. They said, no, we're going to have a voting day. If you're sick, you've got to have a doctor's note. If you're traveling, its boss has got a certified. So we've got to clean it up to get back to where we were, so it's fair, it's transparent. And where we can't clean it up, we've got to out-organize the other side. That's what the President Trump has said, and I'm worried, because the RNC, which is the Republican National Congress, which is the establishment party of the Republicans, they're just oxygen thieves. I mean, they're just they couldn't organize a piss up in a brewery, and they're not getting stuff done. This is getting solved at a local level, which is good, but it's not enough. So we've got a year and a half

Starting point is 00:46:01 to fix it, will we? I have no idea. Hello, Saver. Whether you're saving for that trip to the tropics or saving for an emergency, now is the time to take advantage of Wells Fargo savings options. Wells Fargo offers savings accounts that can help you save towards your goals. So, what are you saving for? Visit a Wells Fargo branch or Wells Fargo.com backslash save to open a savings account today. Wells Fargo Bank, NA, member FDIC. Politically Georgia Podcast is your essential news source. providing in-depth analysis and reporting from Peachtree Street to Pennsylvania Avenue.

Starting point is 00:46:43 Listen to the Atlanta Journal Constitution's trusted veteran political voices. Now streaming five days a week. Hosted by Greg Blustein, Bill Nighott, Tia Mitchell, and Patricia Murphy. Tune in weekdays at 10 a.m. on W.A.B.E. 90.1. stream at AJC.com forward slash podcasts. News and analysis five days a week from Politically Georgia Podcast. What would you say, Seth? And look, I have a lot of sympathy.

Starting point is 00:47:08 for this argument and I agree with it. Policy-wise, there was a lot that I agreed with, with Trump. There was. You can, it's all right, look, I know you're on camera, but it's okay. Right now you can tell everybody you're a conservative man. Maggie is your heroin. I'm good, I'm good with him. Come out, come out, now.

Starting point is 00:47:29 There's a lot of people say- Trigger everyone, right now. Listen, it's an archaic reference, but as a movie buff, you'd like that. I think at the moment, people think I'm the Rock Hudson of the Conservative Party. I've been in the closet that long. They're waiting for it. Oh, my gosh.

Starting point is 00:47:45 Yeah, obviously, I don't want to be outed quite like Rock Hudson. No, that was a little bit comfortable. Yeah, but anyway. Would a more modern reference be the Phillips Schofield? Yeah, yeah, yeah, apart from, yeah. You're going to be crying on TV before long, man. Exactly. All right, what's the argument?

Starting point is 00:47:59 The argument is a lot of the policies, particularly geopolitics, particularly international. There's a lot of people who'd be like, I don't like, but I can't agree with what he's doing. Right, right. but the divisiveness, the language, the tweets, is that really what we need in a country that is more than ever divided? Yeah, I hear this all the time.

Starting point is 00:48:21 The first reaction is I have a friend who runs an amazing website called American Greatness, Chris Baskirk, he's a regular on my show, and he said the indictment has changed the minds of everyone he knows who had that opinion, who said, ah, Trump, but... They said once he was indicted by Albin Bragg on this made-up you know business record misstatement that was you know trumped up into a talked up into a felony they said screw it

Starting point is 00:48:53 they're persecuting this guy and they've come back into the fold and these aren't average people Chris is talking about big donors who who were conservative but had issues with the staffing my argument is the following and it's not pragmatic it's not pragmatic it's principle based Let me just slightly modify what you just said. There is no policy. If you're a conservative, there's no policy, if you love this country, forget concern. There's no policy you can disagree with when it comes to President Trump in the last four

Starting point is 00:49:21 years, in macro terms. Biggest, strongest economy we have ever had a relatively closed border clamped down on illegal immigration, revitalization of NATO, not just our military, we finally got the freeloaders to pay their share after 40 years of the military. not paying their share. Then we had the crushing of ISIS. Obama had told us, ISIS is a, quote, generational problem we just have to get used to. We came in and we took the lawyers out of the way of the Green Berets and the SOCOM.

Starting point is 00:49:58 And five months later, the caliphate was gone. So whether it's national security, foreign affairs, immigration, the economy. Oh, and how about this one? time in history. We were selling other people energy. We were self-sufficient for the lifeblood of an economy and we were exporting it so we could thumb our noses at Opekinet and Russia and everybody else. So when it comes to everything you could pick, whatever your issue is, yeah, yeah, that's good. And then you're going to bitch and moan to me about mean tweets. Well, slap yourself in the face. Really?

Starting point is 00:50:36 So for you, decorum or style on social media is more important than a strong economy, a safe nation, a close border, ISIS crushed. Well, then you're a moron. Then you're on an adult. You're a child. Now, don't get me wrong. You know, this is me in the White House in the Oval Office. When I worked with this man, I went to, you know, public school in England.

Starting point is 00:51:02 I did, went in the debate club, stiff up. upper lip and all that stuff. His style took some getting used to. The language he used in the Oval Office with me made me blush a few times. So what? Really? That's your metric for who you want to lead the country. And I just say, slap yourself in the face and grow up.

Starting point is 00:51:30 But there are a lot of people. There are a lot of people for whom that is the metric. I know, but hang on. shit. The problem with my argument, and this is where I'm going to advocate against myself, is that my buddy, Andrew Claven, says, yeah, but you've got to win elections. Well, that's my point. Right? I don't have a reasonable answer to that, because you're not going to change a 76-year-old man's way of behaving. You're not going to rein him in. You're just not going to reign him in. I have a very personal argument for why I support him and why I will vote for him.

Starting point is 00:52:05 And it's this. The situation in this city, in federal government, inside the most powerful judicial and intelligence enterprise the planet has ever seen, meaning the FBI, the CIA, the NSA, the DOJ, is frightening to me. And I do not become fearful easily. My life changed inexorably when I was on holiday on the beach as a eight-year-old kid. I was playing on the sand with my action man and my dad who was a bear of a man I mean he was on the national rowing team

Starting point is 00:52:44 two years down that prison coal mine loved physical exercise, a lot of swimming and he comes out of the ocean and he walks up to me towers over me and I look up at him and I see something for the first time ever that I hadn't noticed before on his wrist I saw these white lines

Starting point is 00:53:01 and he was far too young to have like wrinkles on his wrists so like an idiot I said, hey, Dad, what's that? He said to me in Hungarian, that's where the secret police bound my wrists together with wire behind my back so they could hang me from the ceiling of the torture chamber. Your life, that is when you arrive at a fork in a road

Starting point is 00:53:22 and your life diverges. Because at that point, for me, evil wasn't, you know, Saruman from Lord of the Rings. It wasn't Wiley Cayedu from a cartoon. From that moment onwards, I understood evil exists. It's real, it lurks in the heart of men, and we must do everything we can to stop it. I couldn't have expressed that, but my father started to tell me his story over the years. So when I came here 14 years ago, and I'd have conservatives who were born in America's sake,

Starting point is 00:53:54 oh, the commies are here, socialism has arrived, I would openly laugh at them. Really? Communism in America, let me tell you about the scars on my dad's body. We'll talk about communism. I don't laugh at them. I don't ridicule them anymore. When a pro-life preacher outside of Philadelphia who protected his 12-year-old son from a loony at an abortion clinic

Starting point is 00:54:23 who was effing and bladding in his face and shoved him away from his child is charged with the misdemeanor assault, has that dismissed completely at a local court? No, you're protecting your child. Four months later, Federal agents from this city deploy with M4 carbines in ceramic-plated hard vests at his home and arrest him in front of his wife and seven children on that dismissed misdemeanor,

Starting point is 00:54:55 which he finally won in court, thank the good Lord. We have political use of police. when a misdemeanor business misstatement misdemeanor charge from eight years ago, which expired due to the statute of limitations, six years ago, is now magically alchemically turned into 34 felonies by a Manhattan district attorney who received a million dollars from George Soros' funding via a cut-through NGO. After he said on his campaign for election,

Starting point is 00:55:30 My number one priority is to put President Trump in prison. I don't laugh at my fellow conservatives. We have police state tactics. Not far from where we are sitting, there is a jail in D.C., in the heart of D.C., where there are people still in prison from the January 6 riots, didn't kill anybody, didn't do anything that goes beyond a slap on the wrist and a fine, who have yet to be arraigned before a judge. The U.S. Constitution, which is based on British principles, is clear.

Starting point is 00:56:02 Every human being has a right to swift justice. You must be charged within a matter of days to be told what your crime is. They've been in prison for two years, some in solitary, without being charged. That is not a mess up. It is a conscious decision to politically use the tools of the state. So for me, the reason I am voting for President Trump and supporting him, I need somebody to come back into the city and burn the corrupt shithole to the ground. And only, there's only one man in America who cannot be reelected if he becomes president.

Starting point is 00:56:47 There's only one man in America who's been president once and is running again. In the Constitution, you can only have two terms. They can be separated, but two terms. Every other candidate from Ron DeSantis to Nikki Haley would want to be reelected after their first term, which means they're going to behave, not do anything radical. I want radical in the name of democracy, republicanism, equality before the law. I want radical changes. I want departments of this city to be moved out. D.C. has become 93% of D.C. voted for Hillary Clinton and Biden.

Starting point is 00:57:23 That's like Saddam Hussein's electoral popularity. 90. If you are charged with a crime in this city and you are known to be a conservative like me, you're toast. You are done. The jury pool is going to just send you away for as long as they can. That's not right. I want the CIA to be reformed. I want the FBI to be abolished. I want the Department of Education, Department of Agriculture, the State Department, to be moved to Montana, to South Dakota, where patriotic Americans live and where the permanent state bureaucrats who think they know better than the people will not want. want to live and work. Whether it's Brexit, whether it's Modi, whether it's Orban, who I'm not a fan of, but we can talk about that separately, whether it's Maloney in Italy. There is an international philomena

Starting point is 00:58:07 that must be understood. It is the reassertion of the will of the people, and the elite must destroy that. That's why Brexit was tried, how many times they tried to annul Brexit? Why? How dare you choose that, British people? That's the problem.

Starting point is 00:58:25 And it has come to a crescendo point where I only see one person who has a chance. And I don't even know if you can do it, but who has a chance to somewhat bring the will of the people back into politics. But, Seb, there are the people as well who will say that Trump's behavior after he lost the election wasn't acceptable. His rhetoric was inflammatory. It was divisive. and he put American democracy in danger? Yeah, I would say 81 million mailed out ballots and sending the FBI to arrest pro-life preachers, that's the real threat to democracy.

Starting point is 00:59:06 I would say having a Speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi, who we've got rid of, for four years. Four years openly refused to call the man elected by 64 million Americans president. She called him the current incumbent of the White House. That's the threat to the Speaker of the House refuses to recognize the writ of the people that the left has become the threat to democracy.

Starting point is 00:59:29 Why? Because everything they say about us, they're actually practicing. Right now, not far from where we're sitting, are the homes in Virginia of the associate Supreme Court justices. These are the most powerful legal minds in the world. Democrat and Republican. The Republicans live in Virginia. Their houses have been picketed since the decision.

Starting point is 00:59:51 on Roe v. Wade in abortion was leaked. It is a crime, a federal crime in America to picket a judge's home because you're exerting political pressure on somebody who is meant to be apolitical. The Department of Justice, under Biden, refuses to do anything about it. Nothing. One airman leaks, you know, top secret documents because he's flexing. And you see the footage? An FBI SWAT team in full battle rattle in an APC arrested a 21-year-old kid in full battle

Starting point is 01:00:27 rattle. But the Supreme Court Justice is Holmes. We had one justice who was almost killed by a pro-abortion activist traveled from California to Virginia with a gun, with a Glock, with a knife, with zip ties to kill him and his family. This isn't a theory. This is a real threat. So for me, the left is by far the biggest problem. No, but Francis' point is something else, which is that, look, whatever you, I didn't think

Starting point is 01:00:52 what happened on January the 6th was a good thing. I also didn't think it was an insurrection. But if you were designing an election from scratch, that's not how you'd want it to end up. Yes, I agree. And so the outcome of that is that, you know, when we had Farage on the show, he said there are no votes to be won on January 6th. Yeah, no, absolutely. I thought, I mean, I was broadcasting live when January 6 happened, and I had a former U.S. attorney

Starting point is 01:01:16 on air who was responsible for securing the capital when he was the U.S. attorney. And we were watching it in real time. And I admitted to myself, and I said it on air two weeks later. President Trump's political future is, it's on a threat. The best thing he could do is disappear for a year

Starting point is 01:01:35 and not say anything, which of course he didn't. But my response is the following. Even if your opinions are justified, Kind of irrelevant because you know what I like? I like the will of the people Let the will of the people decide. We have you know, I have been explicit. I work for President Trump I support President Trump, but you know what I want a primary I don't want Ron DeSantis anointed because he's not so mean on Twitter I don't want President Trump anointed You don't? No, because I hear a lot of people saying oh DeSantis should stand down, you know he needs to get behind the president

Starting point is 01:02:13 You don't want that I would like if he had the balls to do it. I would like if he had the balls to do it which apparently he doesn't seem to right now, I want him on that stage. Look, let's be serious. I'm a political junkie, but 2015 was epic. Can we just thank the good Lord for one thing Donald Trump did, apart from call out the lying fake news media? He made politics fun again. Yeah. How fun was politics. I would like to see not 17 people on the stage. Let's have, you know, 27 people. And the toughest guy or gal, you know, duking it out is the last person standing. And I've said from the beginning, you know, I'm an immigrant to America, but I've heard of this thing called primaries. Let's have him. Anybody who wants to run, Vivek,

Starting point is 01:02:55 I love Vivek Ramoswami, super smart guy. I'd love to see Vivek. I told him on my show. I would like you to be the Jared Kushner of the next Trump administration. I want you to be the, you know, the business innovation, forward thinking, cabinet member. I don't think he's got a shot at presidency, but you're a smart guy. Come on in, join the club. But I'd love to see him on a debate stage, you know, test my boss, come up with some, you know, creative combinations of ideas. But no, I, to your point, yeah, whatever happened on Johnny Sixth and however the president responded afterwards, which was suboptimal, let's put it diplomatically, okay, he's declared. So let the people decide.

Starting point is 01:03:36 Oh, sure. Yeah, completely. So with that in mind, primaries, competition, which I like that you said that because that's how I feel about democracy. I don't understand why people wouldn't want certain candidates to run. Right. What's wrong with DeSantis? Um, so here's done a great job in Florida. He has, but why? Why? Everybody loves Austin Powers, right? Because Ron DeSantis is the minimi of President Trump. What he's doing in Florida is like a scale-down version of America first but applied to one state. So, you know, as Bill Ma said

Starting point is 01:04:10 recently, why would you go to the tribute band's concert if the OG band is still playing? Good point. Why would you vote for the Mini Me version who can kind of do stuff at that level on the state where there's no background in foreign policy, no chops on Nash security? Why would you, it's a pig and a poke, it's, you know, you don't know. So let me, first say, I want him on the platform. I want him on the primary. But here are the problems with Ron.

Starting point is 01:04:38 my buddy who has the morning show here on radio who is my show prep keeps millions of people sane he was talking about Ron Distantis running for governor way back when whatever it was three years ago and he said this three-term congressman from Florida and we help each other out and I was just about to text him live on air and say Chris

Starting point is 01:04:59 what are you talking about three-term congressman you've got to have your fact-checkers do their work And then I thought, okay, hang, before I press send, I'm going to Google his CV. Oh, yeah, Chris was right. He'd served five and a half years in Congress. And me, a political junkie, had no idea. If you've been in Congress for three terms, and I haven't heard your name,

Starting point is 01:05:28 odds are you're probably an oxygen thief. Secondly, a couple of issues that really deserve me. One of his biggest backers now is Ken Griffin. Ken Griffin is a billionaire hedge fund tech guy or what have you, who is a never-trumper who was Obama's biggest bundler. Excuse me? Why is Obama's, if you're concerned, biggest campaign funding bundler,

Starting point is 01:05:57 one of the biggest people funding somebody, who's supposed to be the new Donald Trump. My fear is that they are whispering sweet nothings in his ear saying, you're the guy, you're the guy, and he's being exploited by the establishment rhino class, the Republicans in name only. And I've looked in the camera on my show and said, Ron, run for president, good on you.

Starting point is 01:06:23 Don't let yourself become a tool of the establishment that hates populist, MAGA, America First, whatever you want to call it. And the last thing is, this is where he tanked in the last few weeks. His flip-flop on Ukraine, this is the guy who has to prove most that he's good on foreign policy as a former Navy officer. His flip-flop on Ukraine within 72 hours was a disaster, and it showed in the polls. And then most telling of all is his response to the leak of the indictment against President

Starting point is 01:06:53 Trump. His first press conference on the Monday after it was leaked on Saturday was catastrophic. A, he decided not to talk about it, despite the fact that President Trump lives in the state he is the governor of in Florida. Then in the Q&A on some thing about tech, a journalist naturally said, could you react to the leaked indictment to President Trump? And twice, not once, twice, like a churlish little punk in the schoolyard, he mentions, well, I'm not going to comment on hush money for porn stars. Grow up, Ron. If you're a conservative, you believe in law and order and that lady justice is blindfolded. So you're going to make fun.

Starting point is 01:07:36 I know it's kind of fun to dig and say hush money for porn stars. But not only are you the governor of the state in which the citizen resides who should have equality before the law, whether he's a former president or not. Secondly, and you have to know his background, he was a JAG. He was a member of the judge advocate general corps for the Navy, which means he was a prosecutor. He was a lawyer. If anyone should have something to say about politically aggressive prosecutors doing things that are shady,

Starting point is 01:08:08 it should probably be a former military prosecutor. And he paid the price. And in the polls, he's between 20 to 40 points behind President Trump. But good luck to him. But, you know, not impressive so far in these issues. President Trump and Ukraine. Do you think he stands a chance?

Starting point is 01:08:29 No. Nobody does. Look, Kissinger, not a big fan of Trump, although he used to hang out in the White House almost every weekend. He loved to be back in the halls of power when we were there. Kissinger has said, and he's been around. I mean, he's been around.

Starting point is 01:08:45 He's been around. He said he hasn't seen anybody mobilize Americans like President Trump does since FDR. When Kissinger says the power of this man to mobilize Americans, it hasn't been seen. since Roosevelt you probably should pay attention

Starting point is 01:09:04 and let's just be empirical one of the funniest things about the campaign in 15 because I'd be advising President Trump on national security is I'd go to Trump Town to the campaign headquarters with some regularity and I'd be in there constantly overhearing the conversations of yeah we booked Mr. Trump for this high school stadium but it's already overflowing we've got to go to the next one

Starting point is 01:09:25 get the local state football that the popular they were constantly having to cancel engagements and go to bigger venues because this is the only man in America who can announce tomorrow I'm going to Miami or Poughkeepsie or anywhere and fill a stadium with 60,000 people. Biden could get six, Ron, maybe 10. This man anywhere, even in Democrat states, so can get the people. I flew with him on Air Force One to Youngstown, Ohio. Youngstown is the Rust Belt.

Starting point is 01:10:02 Okay? It's the part of America that's been destroyed. We were riding in the convoy to the stadium. And on the left, all you saw was disused, empty, shattered steel mills. On the right, families dressed very modestly, standing on the pavement, waving their stars and stripes. We got to the stadium. Boss was in the back, glad-handed with the VIPs. I decided to go into the pit of the stadium and meet with the people of Youngstown.

Starting point is 01:10:30 And the selfies and all that jazz. When President Trump and Melania came out on stage, it was electric. He couldn't start his speech because for minutes, the crowd spontaneously were chanting, USA, USA, USA. This in a town that is 90% Democrat, the people in that stadium were Democrats, the dads, the dads, the dads, the dads, were Democrats, their granddad were Democrats. That's a force of nature. Whether you like his tweets or not, the fact that working class Americans who have been betrayed by the Unipati for 60 years, look at this billionaire as a guy who cares, it's an unstoppable force of nature. So the difficulty is, and I'm not even playing devil's advocate here, which is kind of my job,

Starting point is 01:11:21 but actually this is what I genuinely, a question in my mind is, there are two elements to winning an election. One is what you're talking about, which is mobilizing the base. Right. The other one is persuading the undecided. Correct. And that is undoubtedly the problem with President Trump's approach. Right.

Starting point is 01:11:43 Now, you made the point yourself, and he articulated very well at the last election. He mobilized more of his base than any incumbent president. history. But at the same time, he's still lost. And his ability to persuade is extremely limited now, I think, because of his rhetoric, but also January 6th and also the indictment, right? The people who are the undecided, they're going to be harder to win over for him. And the reason people are talking about DeSantis is that they see him as very competent in terms of the things he did, particularly COVID. I think that was a big deal for a lot of people, the things that he's done there. and many other things that he's doing in Florida.

Starting point is 01:12:25 And on top of that, because he does not have, you're right, he doesn't animate people in the same way, but animation can go in both directions. So he doesn't off-put as many people, or put off as many people as President Trump does. And that's why I think a lot of people on your side are saying, well, maybe if we just get this guy, who I agree with you. He is in some ways taken on a lot of the gestures of President Trump.

Starting point is 01:12:52 and the finger and all. Well, I'm making fun of the press and everything. Right, right. But he isn't going to have the toxicity, and as a result, he's a better candidate to actually try to heal some of the divides in this country. That's the argument. So, you know, to be the bastard or to sound like Trump's pit bull, I'm not interested in healing divides.

Starting point is 01:13:14 I want to save the nation. Healing divides... Isn't that the same thing? No. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. It's a difference between, in military terms, there... There's a tank five clicks away over the horizon that can blow me to smithereens, but there's a guy in front of me with a gun with a baynet and he's about to put it in my guts.

Starting point is 01:13:33 The situation in America right now is there's a guy with a baynet coming for me two feet away. When the FBI is doing what they're doing, when parents are being targeted by the Department of Justice because they dare to say we don't want pedophilic pornography in the school library, we don't want racist concepts like critical race theory to be taught to 10-year-olds

Starting point is 01:14:00 and we want our kids back in school without masks. And the FBI has actually created a threat tag. It's getting technical. But they created a whole terminology to use Patriot Act counterterrorism tools to target parents. And now we know Catholics. A recent memo was leaked from Richmond FBI headquarters,

Starting point is 01:14:22 FBI, a field office, saying, watch out and make sure you surveil Catholics who go to traditional masses, especially Latin masses, as potential threats to America. Not BLM, not Antifa, Catholics. There has been no attack that I know of since I've lived in America that was because of people who went to Latin Mass as Catholics. The bayonet is inching towards the sternum of this nation. I'm not, we can heal after we stop the corruption in this city. The political weaponization of the most powerful government in the world must be stopped.

Starting point is 01:15:07 And I'm sorry, Ron DeSantis doesn't have the balls or the maturity to do it. And there's one man who's lived walked through the arena for six years now. who has more potential than anyone to fix it. And to your point about winning, there is a very, I mean, we're all political junkies. There's a very disturbing fact in American politics. Between 20 and 32% of the electorate decide who they're going to vote on

Starting point is 01:15:37 in a presidential election in the last eight days. Which blows my mind. I mean, you're in a tribe, yes, you are in a tribe. You're in a tribe as well as I am. We love the West. But the idea that you could go from, You know, Jimmy Carter to Reagan in the last week before an election, like kind of flip a coin, he's like, what?

Starting point is 01:15:58 My contention, my hope, I can't prove it, is that things will be so, so bad in 20 months' time that the undecideds, the middle of the road, will vote for President Trump, not because he's mager or because he's going to drain the deep state, but because, I mean, I don't if you follow this in England. Recently, we didn't have baby formula in America. We had a baby formula drought. You went to the local, you know, Safeway, and the shelf was empty.

Starting point is 01:16:37 This is the only nation on God's Green Earth that put 12 men on the moon. We went there six times, but we don't have baby formula? We had a disastrous train. accident, chemical waste, inferno. It took the government 14 days to go to the site of the disaster, as if the people in this Trump working class district didn't really matter. If you look at inflation, if you look at the incapacity of kids to buy property and start on the ladder, it's going to get worse.

Starting point is 01:17:18 So my hope is it's not cool campaign ads or polite tweets that are going to save us it's going to be that so many people are going to say, I'm sorry, the pendulum has to swing back. We'll find out if that happens. We will. One last question before we go. Let's talk about your political hero, Joe Biden.

Starting point is 01:17:38 Slow Joe, Beijing Biden. Is he going to run again? He thinks he is, and Jill, you can doubt out Jill. Jill has voted on. on that one already. I cannot believe the DNC, the Democrat National Convention, will allow him to. How do you stop a man who is the president from running? It's a tough question. So... You indict him. I saw it. So I'm approaching your question with logic. So the left is no longer driven by logic.

Starting point is 01:18:15 I cannot predict for you what an irrational entity will do. He's running. His wife thinks he's running. The DNC looked to be throwing him under the bus continually. The whole classified document thing, that didn't come from the right. I have utter certitude that the whole secret documents in his garage, in his office, that was from somebody on the inside who wanted to get rid of him. Can they get rid of him? No idea. But he thinks he's running.

Starting point is 01:18:44 So there we go, Seb. What a pleasure. Thank you so much for coming on the show. If people want to buy your books, if people want to find you online, where's the best way to do that? Yeah, so I'm everywhere except the fascists of YouTube. So you can find me on Sebgawker.com, Sebastian gawker.com, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, Seb Gawker or Sebastian Gorker, and of course my substack that I promise I will write more frequently. That's Sebastian gawker.substack.com. The latest book is The War for America's Soul. So you can find me anywhere.

Starting point is 01:19:18 Daily radio show you can listen to on your iTunes, Apple Podcast, is America First. And then I have a TV show on Newsmax as well. And Seb, before we let you go, and not only let you go, but before we go to locals, where people have submitted their questions that only they will get to see the answers to, as always, what's the one thing we're not talking about that we really should be? Well, I'm going to give you two. Generous. I know, I know. You're in America, but we do things bigger here.

Starting point is 01:19:45 Number one, and you might take umbrage here, it's the transgender thing. But one aspect of it. The idea that doctors who've taken the Hippocratic Oath are mutilating minors is the essence of evil. I don't want to talk about transgenderism in general, but medical professionals harming children, in many cases, children must be stopped and these people must be punished and put in prison. The second one is a philosophical one and it came to me in the depths of COVID, cowardice. This nation was built on rugged individuals and the pioneer spirit. You drove with me through the deep countryside of West Virginia.

Starting point is 01:20:40 You saw the spirit of, these are people that, you know, Sally Forks, young man into the wilderness and create. The idea that a nation that was founded and celebrates that myth, that narrative, of fortitude, of courage, was shut down by the likes of Fauci, beggar's belief. The idea that we were told that for a disease that has really only a disease that has really only a threat level applicable to those with serious comorbidities or a certain age cohort. We were told to shut down all business. Unless you're Walmart or Amazon, you will shut down.

Starting point is 01:21:27 The fact that only, you know, this restaurant owner in California, this gym owner in New York said, screw you, I get to feed my family and my employees get to feed their kids. The fact that it wasn't tens of thousands of Americans who said, no, I will assume the risk. It is my decision. It is my employee's decision. The fact that we genuflected at the altar of Fauci and fear, for me is what we have.

Starting point is 01:21:53 We have to find fortitude and courage again. And this isn't an American thing. This is a Western civilization thing. You know this from your industry. Why is your industry dead? Why is comedy dead? Cowder's. That's what it is.

Starting point is 01:22:06 So we need to talk about what it means to have courage. And I'll give you one story and then we can move to locals. Before the election, I was invited with my wife to speak at a conservative event at the Trump golf course here. And it was a gala, so, you know, black tie. And I arrived early, my wife was going to speak, I was going to speak. We arrived to the ballroom. This woman sees me from across the ballroom. Rashes over to me in a lovely ball gown.

Starting point is 01:22:35 It says, Dr. G, Dr. G, can I get a selfie? And I said, of course. Jim, take the selfie. And afterwards, I said to what I said to everyone that takes a selfie with me. Don't forget to tag me when you post it. Suddenly, her visage changed. She got old doer. And she said, oh, I can't put it on Facebook.

Starting point is 01:22:56 I can't post it. My husband, he's self-employed, and this part of Northern Virginia is so Democrat. At that moment, a little part of me died. An hour later, when I was asked to stand up in front of 400 Patriots, to make a speech, I talked about this woman. She was there. I didn't use her name, but I said the following.

Starting point is 01:23:23 If you do not put your name to the values you say you hold, you do not hold those values. And you don't deserve or have the right to describe yourself based upon those adjectives. It's a very simple calculation. You can't say, I'm a patriot, I love America, I'm a conservative, or I love the working class and I'm a labor voter, if you aren't able to actually associate you with those values.

Starting point is 01:23:54 So man up and live your values. A woman up? If you must. Dr. Sebastian Gorka, thank you so much for being back on the show. And thank you for what you do. I told you guys privately. You guys are unique. You are providing a service nobody else is doing.

Starting point is 01:24:14 and there's a reason I have said publicly on numerous occasions. The best podcast outside of America is trigonometry. So I salute you guys. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Join us on locals where we're going to ask Seb your questions. Thank you for being here for watching this. We've got more amazing interviews coming from our American trip and more.

Starting point is 01:24:35 So take care and we'll see you on locals very shortly. Take care and see you soon, guys. Because this isn't YouTube, we can talk about this. Sean G says, seeing as Trump reckons, the last election was rigged. Hello, Saver. Whether you're saving for that trip to the tropics or saving for an emergency, now is the time to take advantage of Wells Fargo's savings options. Wells Fargo offers savings accounts that can help you save towards your goals.

Starting point is 01:25:07 So, what are you saving for? Visit a Wells Fargo branch or Wells Fargo.com backslash save to open a savings account today. Wells Fargo Bank, N.A. member FDIC. Politically Georgia podcast is your essential news source, providing in-depth analysis and reporting from Peachtree Street to Pennsylvania Avenue. Listen to the Atlanta Journal Constitution's trusted veteran political voices. Now streaming five days a week. Hosted by Greg Bluestein, Bill Nigott, Tia Mitchell, and Patricia Murphy. Tune in weekdays at 10 a.m. on W.A.B.E. 90.1. Stream at AJC.com forward slash podcast.

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TRIGGERnometry - "DeSantis Will LOSE to Trump" - Dr Sebastian Gorka

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