TRIGGERnometry - Explosive Debate: Biden Vs. Trump with Destiny and Dr Sebastian Gorka

Episode Date: May 19, 2024

Trump or Biden? Dr Sebastian Gorka and Destiny go head to head! Dr Sebastian Gorka is a former Deputy Assistant to President Trump for strategy. He has lectured for US Special Operations Command, the FBI’s Counterterrorism Division, and the Green Berets, and has briefed the CIA, the Defense Intelligence Agency, and the National Intelligence Council. He is the host of the radio show ‘America First with Sebastian Gorka.’ Find more here: https://www.sebgorka.com/ Destiny (Steven Bonnell) is an American live-streamer and political commentator. A social democrat, he often engages in political debates in which he advocates for progressivism and liberal politics. He is the host of the ‘Bridges Podcast’ which is available, along with many other kinds of content, on his YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@destiny SPONSORS: Watch the Munk Debate: Is Anti-Zionism Antisemitism? Live June 17th. Join today to live stream. Click here: https://munkdebates.com/anti-zionism/?utm_medium=email&utm_source=triggernometry&utm_campaign=debate170624 Buy gold and earn interest on it! https://monetary-metals.com/triggernometry/ Join our Premium Membership for early access, extended and ad-free content: https://triggernometry.supercast.com OR Support TRIGGERnometry Here: Bitcoin: bc1qm6vvhduc6s3rvy8u76sllmrfpynfv94qw8p8d5 Music by: Music by: Xentric | [e-mail] | https://www.xentricapc.com/ YouTube: @xentricapc Buy Merch Here: https://www.triggerpod.co.uk/shop/ Advertise on TRIGGERnometry: [e-mail] Join the Mailing List: https://www.triggerpod.co.uk/#mailinglist Find TRIGGERnometry on Social Media: https://twitter.com/triggerpod https://www.facebook.com/triggerpod/ https://www.instagram.com/triggerpod/ About TRIGGERnometry: Stand-up comedians Konstantin Kisin (@konstantinkisin) and Francis Foster (@francisjfoster) make sense of politics, economics, free speech, AI, drug policy and WW3 with the help of presidential advisors, renowned economists, award-winning journalists, controversial writers, leading scientists and notorious comedians. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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The analysis is childlike to defend Trump, right? Well, there were no wars, right? Wars don't just come out of nowhere. There's a buildup for how these things happen. So what he just did is he said the conditions for the largest slaughter of Jews since 1945 were created by President Trump. A lot of the stuff that he did during his presidency was kind of. of a buildup to the frustrations that would obviously come out on October 7th and that horrible

terrorist attack. It's because nobody fears the senile old man in the White House who talks to dead people and thinks his wife is his sister. That's why the world is on fire. The question I want to ask you is a question I can't ask you on YouTube, which is about January of the 6th and everything that happened around that. Do you believe the 2020 election was stolen? So to say that he went along with the peaceful transfer power is just a lie.

Well, they did because he left the White House. Yes, after he failed to steal the election. Gentlemen, welcome to the debate. Seb, Steven, thank you so much for coming on. Obviously, we want to focus exclusively on the election that's upcoming. And one of the things we agreed before is that both of you get a chance to set out a positive case for your candidate. It's something that we never hear anymore because everyone just criticizes the other person. So given that Biden is the incumbent, Stephen, do you want to start us off?

Yeah. Why is he good? I think that Biden is a good president because I think that he's shown that he's willing to defend and strengthen our institutions. I think that the United States is only as strong as the institutions that we have. You can have parchment guarantees from constitutions that say you're afforded X, Y, Z rights, or you know, you're guaranteed in the United States to be able to do some particular things. But at the end of the day, if we don't have a government telling you that the food is safe, or this medicine is safe,

or your car is not going to explode at the end of the day, I think that none of those things actually matter, the parchment guarantees. So I think that Biden has done a really good job at kind of reaffirming our institutions, whereas I feel like Trump was a bit more negative towards them. The second thing is I think Biden has done a really good job at being able to actually bring different people

in Congress together to pass legislation. I think that bipartisanship is really important right now, considering how divided we are. You've got things that Trump said about infrastructure for four years. that never got done. The closest we got to infrastructure building in the United States under Trump are tariffs, which are basically just taxes on our own citizens, whereas Biden was able to pass the IRA and the Chips Act, which both have fostered a ton of new manufacturing that's been happening in the

United States, which I think is really cool because we're finally building stuff again. And then I think that the foreign policy under Biden, I think that our aims right now are a lot more noble than they were under Trump. I think that regardless of your feelings, our participation with supporting Ukraine against Russia or supporting Israel against the situation in the Middle East is a lot more defensible than endless drone wars that were trying to hide in Yemen, you know, fighting in Syria, whatever other, you know, the photo opportunities with North Korea, the back and forth with Iran, whatever kind of mixed bag of undermining the United States Trump was involved in when it came to US foreign policy under him. So those be my three big ones. I think defensive institutions, ability to bipartisanly pass

legislation, and then more noble foreign policy aims. Perfect. I will come back to you to probe with some of those things. Seb, what's your case for Trump? He loves America. He doesn't hate America. It's really that simple. And he understands the institutions are either broken or corrupt. And he's not a member of the political elite. He wasn't in politics for 47 years like the current incumbent in the White House. He is not part of the quote unquote political elite that clearly detests our nation and Judeo-Christian civilization. There's a reason that working class Americans from across the nation voted for him in 2016. There's a reason that recently in Harlem we saw what? We saw a black 10-year-old child chant out, we love you Trump, which was then picked up by all the

adults around that young boy because they see in that man authenticity. He's not a machine career politician. He's not somebody with 21 shell companies funneling money from communist China, Russia, the Ukraine, into his sons, dodgy dealings, and then into the Biden family. He has authenticity and he loves America. The first time I met him, I've told this story on your show previously, I grew up in the UK. It was a very different culture for me to meet this reality to you.

TV star in his golden tower in New York. But within 30 seconds of sitting down with this man, I realize two things. He loves America and he hates political correctness. That is the antithesis of the political class, whether it's rhino fake Republicans or the institutionalized Democrats. And that's why he's trouncing Biden in every significant poll in America. People see a man who understands America has lost its way. The elite on both sides of the aisle have betrayed American, especially American work

and we need to fix it. That's why. And do you, is it really true that like the Biden and the people around him hate America? I mean, isn't that an extraordinary claim to make? It is. It's kind of perverse. But if you look at everything they've done for the last three and a half years, answer the question dussly, what else would you do for three and a half years if your ostensible goal was actually to destroy America? What would you do differently? Nothing. You'd open the borders. You'd give billions of dollars. to the greatest state-sponsive terrorism in the world, Iran, that every Friday chance death to America.

You'd undermine our relationship with our closest ally in the Middle East, Israel. Stop sending them the weapons they need to save themselves from the bloodthirsty jihadists that killed more Jews than we've ever seen since the end of the show at the end of the Holocaust. You'd make it harder for Americans to live their lives. When on the first day of the Biden administration, you ban the exor keystone pipeline extension. You say no more fracking, no more energy exploration on federal lands. And what do we have? We go from $1.80 a gallon of petrol to now we have in California $6. When you're a man who lives on how much it costs to put a full tank of gas in your car,

if you're a worker, if you're a plumber, if you're a carpenter, you've crushed tens of millions of people. That is only possible if you hate the nation in which you live. Think of this thing. It's set up by one person. Don't listen to me. Don't listen to Sebastian. Listen to Biden's former boss. Five days before he became president, he said, we are going to fundamentally change this nation.

I know you're a married man, Constantine. Don't tell your wife you want to fundamentally change her because she won't believe you love her. You'll be on the couch or in the doghouse, okay? you don't love that which you wish to fundamentally change, and that's what the left has become. Well, there you go. I'm getting marital advice as well. Stephen, there's quite a lot there. I'm going to come back to some of the points you made in your opening and let Seb probe with them as well. But there was a lot there. Do you want to come back on that? Yeah, I mean, I disagree with almost every part. I think that I don't think Trump loves America.

I think it's pretty obvious that Trump loves himself. I think even Trump fans will admit that Trump is more in love with himself than any other individual entity that exists on this planet. I always think it's really funny. I think one of the most interesting things that happened with conservatives is this idea that they found a common man who's not a part of the elite to champion their causes, and it happens to be a billionaire real estate mogul from New York City that was essentially born with a silver spoon. I think that's incredibly interesting. When you talk about, like, I mean, we could go into family stuff.

I think it's interesting that people are so critical about Hunter Biden when Kushner is signing multi-billion-dollar deals with Saudi Arabia, when Kushner was working in Hold on, but that's what aboutism, right? That's not like Hunter Biden could be a bad guy and Jared Kushner could be doing whatever you say he's doing. Does it not? Sure, I'm not. It's not a one aboutism because it's not a defensive hunter. I think it's more remarking that it's interesting

what conservatives that are fans of Trump are selectively skeptical of, that if Biden had created a position of the White House for his son Hunter to work under, and then he had sent his son to go and negotiate on behalf of the United States, and then afterwards his son was signing multi-billion-dollar deals for companies that he worked with, This is like Burisma, but 100 million times worse because it's in the official capacity as a government worker while being related to a president who didn't divestate.

I guess all I'm saying, sorry to interject. I really want you to get the time. But I just, that argument could be played the other way. If Donald Trump had had a son like Hunter Biden who was doing what Hunter Biden did, everyone on the left would be outraged too, right? So you can play many people on the left talking about Kushner that much, considering how crazy those deals are. I mean, people have talked about it less. It's true. Sure. For Hunter Biden, I mean, Marjorie Taylor Green has pictures of him in Congress.

I don't know if you saw that. In terms of like, what would you do if you wanted to make the country worse? I mean, I could think of several things. I would encourage my supporters to lead an insurrection on the Capitol. I would try to say that the election results weren't real. I would plan that the election was fake before even coming into office, which he did before his first term. I'd probably start to gain notoriety or popularity in the political world by suggesting that the current president was born in Kenya, not the United States. A lot of people forget, but that's how Trump initially.

picked up his popularity. It was with the birth certificate stuff with Barack Obama. I think that when you talk about wanting to fundamentally change this country, I don't think Biden wants to do that. I think Biden genuinely loves the United States. I look at somebody like Donald Trump, who undermines basically every single part of this country, whether it's the legal and judicial system, whether it's trust in the voting process, whether it's NATO, whether it's U.S. impressions or the U.S. reputation abroad. Yeah, I think that Trump fundamentally has no respect to for any part of this country. That's why he suggested suspending the Constitution so that he could look for voter fraud. It's why before getting elected, he said that people that burn the flag

are one of our most important First Amendment protected rights should have their citizenship stripped for them, which is insane. And I would also probably try to undermine the current sitting president and the current sitting Congress by telling them that they're not allowed to get things done on the border because if we keep that as a real problem, it'll help me in the next election cycle, which is why we weren't able to pass any bipartisan border legislation to actually fix the asylum problem that we have right now that the current government's hands are tied on. Ted? I just, most of that is just absolutely reasonable.

He loves himself more than anything, any other human being on the planet. Yeah, that's why he's facing 730 years in prison right now because he wants to be president again. He could have just gone off back to his private life, running his businesses, but no, he actually said a few days ago, I'm prepared. to go to jail and make that sacrifice any day because the constitution is more important than my freedom. That sounds like a very selfish individual, absolutely. Do you not think, though, I think it's a fair critique to say that Donald Trump is narcissistic and so he would want to go back because he feels that he was badly treated.

The reason he didn't get re-elected was the election was stolen and he wants to show the world that he's, it's a personal ambition project rather than... At the cost of going to prison. Well, some people want to sacrifice themselves so everyone can see how they've been badly treated because they're so obsessed with, you know, looking right. I'm glad we're so good at psychoanalyzing people from the outside. Just saying, that's what a lot of people would think. But let's look at the facts.

He wouldn't be where he is today if he wasn't running again. That's just, we know that. This is an attempt to steal an election before any vote is cast, whether it's the Fannie Willis corrupt prosecutor in Georgia, whether it's the person, Letitia, James or Alvin Bragg, funded by George Soros during their campaigns because sadly we elect these people in America and who campaigned, campaigned on putting President Trump in prison. How perverse is that? And with regards to he did it all for himself and he did nothing for America or destroyed

America. Do you have any idea how much energy costs went up under the Trump administration just for average families? The president doesn't influence energy cost that money. He does when he shuts down fracking and all licenses for oil exploration on federal lands. Don't, don't, don't divert. USOL production is at an all-time high, so that's a non-point. Absolutely not true.

It is. We're energy independent right now. You're making stuff up. Okay. People go look at up. How much did energy go up? Do you know, under Trump? Are we counting the last year under COVID when the entire world was slowing down?

Over four years. How much of the energy got? Do you know? I'm not sure. 4%. Do you know how much has gone up in the last three and a half years under Biden? I'm not sure. 28%. Who's destroying America?

But that's also a global trend. But also it's a function of what we created. When we're in the Trump administration, for the first time in our history, we were net exporters of energy. Think about what that does for the lifeblood. An economy requires energy. I know it's a scary, evil thing for the left, but oil and gas is how you run an economy. It's how you get food to people.

So when we became the first time ever a net exporter, or talk about the other aspects of the economy, we have the lowest unemployment for minorities in the United States since record keeping began and the lowest unemployment for women for 70 years. Look at what we have today. I mean, it's absolute, the fact that most families in this nation cannot handle a $500 emergency. They don't have $500 worth of cash. That's why Harlem is shouting.

love you, Trump. I don't know if you saw President Trump after he had to leave the court last week. He delivered pizzas to the firefighters in Manhattan. It's really interesting to watch that video, not just of how he was received by those people who run into fires to save Americans. One of the firefighters actually audibly says in the background, save us, Mr. Trump. That doesn't happen if the man's selfish and if the economy's absolutely superb. It happens when you let in 8 million illegals in three and a half years to crush the working man and woman in America. Stephen, even as a fair observer, you would have to say, and feel free to come back on the points I've made as well, but the immigration issue, the illegal immigration issue, seems to be

much, much worse under President Biden. Would you agree with that? Yes, we're facing unique issues right now, yeah. So why would you want to re-elect a man who has allowed this many illegal immigrants and despite the fact I think it's fair to say the vast majority of Americans agree that this shouldn't be happening. I think that there is, when it comes to border stuff or immigration stuff, I think that most of the disagreement, I think that we, I think for America, I think we generally agree on most things for what the immigration policy should look like. The problem is we have a very unique problem right now at the border relating to asylum seeking and the federal government's hands are tied in terms of how you can deal with those people.

So with the way that the law works right now, if you're an illegal immigrant and you come up to the border. You see that like the encounters have gone up dramatically. Well, so was the actual catch rate of people coming in. Like not that many people are sneaking past the border guards. The reason why is because you don't have to actually sneak into the country anymore. You just have to show up between a port of entry or maybe even at a port entry now and go, hey, I'm here to seek asylum. And once you've done that, it's like a get out of jail free card and you're basically, they have to take you in. They have to process you because of how the federal laws on the books are right now. And then because we don't have enough judges to

actually go through all the cases, you're given basically a slip. You're saying, hey, please show up for your trial, and then you basically release them into the country. Some people would try to say that, like, Biden does catch and release. We have like a catch and release law, but we don't really. It's like a combination of pretty complicated things on the books for how we deal with asylum seekers. Now, Biden and the Democrats in Congress wanted to deal with this, but Trump was literally telling Republicans in Congress, do not touch the border issue. That's why the bipartisan bill, the Republicans had largely approved of a few years earlier, got completely shut down. because Republicans don't want to close this issue.

Again, in classic Trump fashion, which is putting Trump ahead of the country, we didn't do anything about the border because Trump was telling Republicans not to fix a particular issue because he wants to win reelection. That's an issue that Biden and the Democrats tried to solve, but we couldn't do it.

Look, I want to hear Sebs' answer to that and other things you're about to say, but just I can tell you someone, look, I was born in the former Soviet Union, I don't live in America. I can promise you this unique set of circumstances that you're talking about, like every other country in the world, pretty much, except Western Europe, is able to have a border, right?

You can't just turn up to the border of Russia or China and, like, walk in and then be like, oh, can I please? That's not how it works. It's not, look, the idea that a country has a border has not been controversial for very long. This is a very new thing. And the fact that the number of people has skyrocketed since President Biden was elected, you can't put that on the Republicans. Well, I'm not putting anything on the Republicans. What I'm saying is what I'm putting on them is the refusal to fix the actual issue, which is passing legislation to do it. And the last huge bipartisan bill that died in the House was supposed to increase the amount of judges we have to work through asylum seekers.

It was supposed to change the standards that we would use to evaluate people claiming asylum. And it would have been, and it would have increased funding basically for every part of the board of security. Wouldn't it be easy to just erect a physical barrier that prevents people from going into this country except at a port of entry? No, it wouldn't do anything. This is the frustrating thing because the issue is what I said. the issue, if you look at the vast majority of people that are coming in and you talk about things like catch and release, it's asylum seekers. These are laws on the books that have to change. You can go to a border right now as an immigrant and just like, hey, I'm like claiming

asylum. Can I come in? It's nothing to do with laws. And then that's the issue that you have when you're trying to deal with our current immigration issue is the asylum seeking process. And you say that like, well, other countries have borders and they don't have to deal with this. When the Syrian refugee crisis happened, I'm sure you remember, because I think it was probably a big motivating factor for Brexit, even if it was in the background, they were tons of refugees that were streaming into Europe. And there was a huge crisis. You saw a lot of right-wing parties gain popularity because of how unhappy people were. In Sweden, you've still got residual issues relating to those immigrants. You had the AFD rising of popularity in Germany.

You had Marie Le Pen becoming popular again in France. I totally agree with you. But the problem is that all of those decisions about letting those people in, they were political decisions. And that's why people are frustrated because the decision to allow a million refugees into Germany was a political decision, after which Angela Merkel admitted that multiculturalism doesn't work. It's not like the countries fail to have a border. It's that politicians choose to create a situation where millions of people flood into the United States. I agree. But that's the choice that Trump and the Republicans have made right now when we've said, hey, we can change this with bipartisan infrastructure or with bipartisan immigration legislation. It was on the books. It was,

or it wasn't on the books. It was a bill. It was ready to be passed. It would have addressed all of these issues, but Trump told Republicans, do not pass this bill. I need this as an election issue, and he didn't. Even though this bill had, I wish I could remember the name of the, the Republican that had co-authored this, but this is like a basically a Republican-authored bill that would have fixed all of these problems. I want to give you more time on the other points. Oh, I will say one also. Yeah, please, please go. Because conservatives love to bring up the lowest unemployment for minorities under Trump and blah, blah, blah. We have the lowest unemployment for minorities right now under Biden. The idea that you would look at unemployment and use that as

like a win for Trump when unemployment under Biden has been the lowest that it has been in all of U.S. history. And it's after rebuilding an economy, not like soaring ahead of like historically low interest rates year after year, which kind of led into a lot of the issues that we experienced with inflation and having to tighten up interest rates and everything. The economy under Biden has done exceedingly well. It would be nice if we had a Democrat come into office that wasn't trying to clean up the mess of the last conservative. We had Obama come in after Bush's, the end of Bush's presidency, which was a 2007 housing crisis, which was like an international financial issue. we had Biden come in after Trump's horrible mishandling of COVID.

It would be nice if we could actually get a Democrat to come in and run a clean four years instead of cleaning up the mess of the last conservative and then still trying to compete on things. So obviously you heard my interjections about immigration. And I think they're fair, certainly from my perspective. But the one thing I have also heard, including from many Republicans who might be mutual friends of ours, or people who are high up in the Republican Party, is that Donald Trump is playing politics with these issues right now in order that he has a better chance of winning. Do you accept that? No, I don't. Let's talk about this canard that the left wants to fix this. And they had legislation

that a rhino fake conservative sponsored in the Senate. The legislation stated that if you sign this into law, you will allow at least 5,000 illegals into America every 24 hours. Of course, we're going to say that's garbage. That's insanity. The idea that they in good faith want to fix this. Let's just look. In preparation for today, I called up the former commission of customs and border protection. And I asked him, what is the situation like? Let's just talk about one statistic. Because, you know, eight million illegals, it's hard to even fathom. In the last three and a half years, they have intercepted 47,000 felons at the border. These are criminals coming into America. That is a 99% increase over our four years in guidelines.

government. Let's just say 100% increase. Besides that, they found 160,000 felons, convicted felons, in America, including 4,700 murderers and 8,000 gang members, one of whom murdered a beautiful 22-year-old nursing student called Lakin Riley in Georgia. A man who murdered her after he was a sidelied into America by Joe Biden's system, was then arrested for endangerment of a minor in New York, and Alvin Bragg, the Democrat, DA of New York, led him onto the street so he could murder this 22-year-old. Let's be clear, they created this. You're right. It's policy decisions. My parents were real refugees, real asylum seekers, because if my dad had gone back to the land of his birth, as an escaped prisoner from a communist prison, he would have been shot on site.

Not, you can't say eight million political prisoners are coming across the border into America. And let's just use the stats of the left. The United Nations, hardly a hard mager entity. Human Rights Watch, not exactly America first. What have these organizations stated about the deluge, the invasion of illegals across our border under? of Biden, between 50 and 60% of the girls and the women are being raped or sexually assaulted by the coyotes, by the human traffickers. It is absolutely empirically a statement of fact that Joe Biden has become the largest human trafficker in human history. The party of... Come on, sir. No, come on. He's not... Numerically. Come on. Numerically. No, no, that's not what I'm

disputing. I'm disputing the idea that he's a human trafficker. Totally. His policies. It's happening under his watch. His decision. Let's talk about what he said. No, hold on. He's not a human traffic.

He is. That's ridiculous. His policies have made his government empirically. You can't argue with 12,000 illegals a day. 12,000. To call someone a human trafficker in place, they're doing it on purpose. They are doing it all purpose. I'll tell you why.

Because they are so bigoted and so racist. Remember, this is the Democrat Party, the party of the KKK, the party of the Jim Crowley. This is the party whose activist murdered the first Republican president, Lincoln, the great emancipator. This is the DNA of the Democrats. The Democrats are so fundamentally bigoted. They believe if they wheeled in millions of illegals because they're brown-skinned, because they're black-skinned,

when we amnesty them and give them naturalization and citizenship, they will vote for us because of their skin color. This is CRT at its core, critical race theory, and that's why they're doing it. This isn't an accident. You don't open the border as an accident. You know that. And this isn't because of humanitarian stuff. Let's talk about why it's happening technically and why he is the largest human trafficking.

Finish the point, and then I want to say something. How do these people come into America? Do you know what CBP1 is, Stephen? CBP1 is the app that illegals download on their way to America. It's funded by you and me, by American taxpayers. They're sitting in Mexico. They're sitting in the Dominican Republic. They're sitting in Afghanistan, and they download an app where they pre-clear themselves.

You tick a box, I am Mickey Mouse and I'm an asylum seeker. When you cross the border, you say, hey, I'm registered and you'll let into America. That's deliberate, Constantine. That's not accidental. That's deliberate. And these people aren't political refugees. Okay. Why didn't you build a wall when you had the chance?

We tried to, and we were stymied consistent. You know what President Trump had to do? This is the insanity. He, he, he, the protestations from the establishment were hysterical. We had to repurpose DOD funds and say the border is actually national security issue if you've got terrorists coming across the border. We had to repurpose national security funds to build the border and buy the steel to build the war.

That's, and that took us over a year. What does Joe Biden do? He comes into the administration and the, the steel. members that we had bought to secure them border. He sold them for scrap iron. That's why it's deliberate and that's why he's a human trafficker. This episode is brought to you by Netflix's remarkably bright creatures. What if a Pacific octopus held the key to a mystery that could heal your heart? Well, that's Tova's reality. An elderly widow working at an aquarium. Tova forms an unlikely friendship with their crumudgeonly Marcellus, whose remarkable intelligence leads her to a life-changing discovery.

Watch remarkably bright creatures with your remarkable moms this Mother's Day weekend. Only on Netflix May 8th. The talking points are funny. I think it's really funny. I think if you're listening to this in video form, I think you should rewind because I think Seth accidentally gave away part of the plot. It's funny because you described that border bill and you said that it allows 5,000 illegal immigrants to come in the day. Minimum.

Wrong. That was the maximum cap. No. One of the issues that we faced. I did. I did. I did read it. It's classic.

You should read it as well. No, I did read it. And it's funny because what you'd said later on was that we were seeing numbers sometimes in excess of 12,000 per day. The reason why that bill was so important, one of the things that would have been nice is it would have actually placed a cap on the amount of people that were coming in and claiming asylum. That 5,000 per day would have said that once we hit this cap, we are not processing anybody else. You could have the most legitimate asylum claim in the world and we would not allow you into this country, which was already about to be challenged by a ton of legal people around the United States. And I think the international, there were international bodies as well, because whether or not you can cap a asylum secrets is still an internationally debated topic. But that is what that legislation seek to do.

If you feel, again, so passionately about the border, why didn't we pass any bipartisan infrastructure or bipartisan immigration legislation? Why did Trump shut it down? Because you have to have the other side acting in good faith. You can say that. I did. You did. If you really truly believe that the other side is at fault, then it seems like you need a candidate besides Trump. wasn't able to get anything done when he was president.

You just said it yourself that Trump had to repurpose DOD funds to do it. Trump had a larger margin in Congress. Trump had all three branches of government and accomplished less than Biden did when it came to legislation, when it came to the border, when it came to infrastructure, when it came to foreign policy, when it came to almost every single aspect of running this country. And Trump was the one that came in saying, I'm the business guy. I can bring people together. I can get these things done because I know how to get people to work together.

And all I hear from people, once Trump left office, it was, well, the deep state got me. And it was the other guys. and that I couldn't do anything, and I had to take money from the DOD to do it, and I couldn't figure anything out and blah, blah, blah. And now that he's out of office, supposedly running for America, despite the fact that what he's really running for is so that he can pardon himself from his crimes and be immune from, hopefully, state charges.

What he's really running for, yeah, is to save himself. And that's why he didn't care about the border. That's why he tries to continue the border problems. He wasn't able to fix it when he was in office because he's more concerned with his reputation than actually bringing people together to get anything done. I just don't understand how, even if you believe everything that you've,

said that asylum seeking is an issue, that illegal immigration is an issue. Even if you believe that these are issues that are brought by Democrats intentionally and they're destroying the country, which are all ridiculous claims, Donald Trump is not the guy to fix them because he already proved that he couldn't do it once. All right. So we can go back and forth saying, I read this, I read that. Look it out for yourselves. Everybody can do that, okay? I just want it to be common sense. Does anybody with a straight face have the capacity to say, yeah, the Democrats are strong on border and immigration and Trump isn't. I mean, it just, it beggars belief. It's reasonable. That's one of the weaker points Stephen made, but I think a very strong point that he made

right at the end. One I'd like to hear you answer is Donald Trump, you say, didn't build the wall because there was a lack of support from the other side. They were not acting in good faith. Okay, well, you think there's going to be more good faith after he gets elected, let's say, in 2024? Right. I'm not sure it's the good faith. That's the problem. He seems to paint President Trump. No, you said this earlier. But let me just unpack it in terms of what's possible or what is it. I said this when I was in the White House. I said it after I left the White House. Donald Trump won, the election, despite the GOP, not thanks to the GOP. I mean, this is the oddity. I mean, this is what Americans forget. And I find it funny that I have to, you know, remind Americans

who were born here, unlike me, a legal immigrant, that Donald Trump, the American people did something utterly historic in 2016. Because prior to that, every chief executive from George Washington to Obama was from the same class. They were either senators, congressmen, governors, or retired four-star generals, every single one, from George Washington to Obama. Then what do the American people do in 2016? They say, we've had it with the swamp, the establishment, the rhinos, the Democrats. They elect a man who's never run for any office, not county dog catcher, a guy who has no political background, and they say, F you to the establishment, we want him. That's actually historic.

Now, that's what the president had to compete with. When we walked into the White House on January 21st, I said this publicly back then. There were less than 20 of us in senior positions like myself who were actually America first and MAGA, right? because it was, it was, it was an insurgency, it was, it was an insurgency. The establishment hated President Trump. We had people inside the building who were actively subverting him, even his former chief of staff.

That will not happen in a second Trump administration because the president understands what Reagan taught us. Personnel is policy. We can't have, you know, people betraying the will of the American voter inside the wire, inside the building. It's more than just, oh, well, he didn't pass legislation. He actively had people who believe in the footsie under the table with the other side. I'll get my cushy lobbyist job after I leave Congress.

That's changed in the last eight years. The Republican Party now is MAGA, is America First. There's a few holdouts and rhinos who are leaving like Mitt Romney. But the situation for getting even more stuff fixed is much brighter than it was when we walked in in 2016. Stephen? Anything you want to say? Populism usually takes a pretty predictable route where people are frustrated with a set of circumstances, which, to be fair, there's a lot of things to be frustrated about,

and what you do is you turn to a strong man who promises to deliver you from all of your evils, to deliver you from the pain and the suffering of whatever around you, because he's the one source of truth, the one source of goodness, the one guy that can get the job done. That's what Donald Trump sold himself as when he came into office, And like every populist, he came in, he overpromised, and he underdelivered. Trump failed on every single conceivable metric when it came to being a president. Besides, and I will admit, he is very funny.

He's very funny. He's got good stage presence, and he can work a crowd. That's why the nicest thing... The economy was pretty good, during his period, until COVID hit. The economy was good, but I mean, like, you can Google markets. You can look at indicators. Like, everything had been hitting all-time high since 2013 under Obama, right? Ever since the economy crashed after 2007 instead of recover, that same recovery happened under Trump.

And it was happening with pretty low interest rates. And it was just a carry on from Obama's administration. People will say, well, the economy was really good under Trump. What did Trump even do? He did a bunch of tax cuts and that's it. Let me answer. Let me answer that quick. And then as a quick thing again, I'm sorry, but my managerial experience in the ordinary world outside of the, I guess the YouTube world I live in now,

is limited, but I was a supervisor in a restaurant. If I was given a shift and all my tables were dirty and my manager comes in and she sees my restaurant, it's my ass. I'm in trouble. I can't say, well, these employees were working against me and these guys didn't show up and these guys didn't call in. She's like, okay, well, you're getting paid the big bucks. It's your responsibility. You're the leader there, right? When Trump was coming into office, because I am an ardent capitalist, the only redeeming quality I saw was, well, okay, he is a business guy. So at the very least, maybe he's got some comprehension in terms of how to get people with different opinions to actually work together. And he is the most divisive leader in like all of U.S. history, or at least recent U.S. history.

The idea that, you know, even his former chief of staff was against him, like that's a point in favor of Trump, these are your people, you're nominated. How is it that every person that's worked with him? How is it that his former attorney generals, his chiefs of staff, his personal friends, his personal allies, when you have this many people around you that are saying to the rest of the world, don't trust this guy. this guy is no good. I don't work with him anymore. I don't trust this guy anymore. Like at what point do you look at him? You're like, okay, well, maybe it's not actually the deep state, every single institution, all of the media, all of the world, all of academia, and all of the politicians against him. Maybe it's just kind of like a bad person. It's not very good at getting his job done. This is, it's like you live in an alternate universe. I know you're on YouTube

and that those are your qualifications. We're all on YouTube seven. I know. I'm not. No, I'm not. I've been banned. I've been banned on YouTube, right? So, you know, I take that as a mark of honor. I'm on Rumble. So let's be this idea that he failed at everything. Yeah, that's a great description of Joe Biden, from mortgage rates to inflation, to the price of energy, to surrendering in Kabul, to the invasion of Ukraine to October the 7th. Yeah, massive successes in the last three and a half years. Let's talk about my bailiwick. Let's talk about national security. We had been told by our predecessor, Obama, that ISIS, quote, is a threat we just have to get to learn to live with. Can't be solved, just going to live with it.

When we came into the White House, President Trump got the lawyers out of the way and unleashed J-Soc and Delta Force. Within five months, the caliphate of ISIS was gone. Caput. China, we initiated a trade war with China. We facilitated the rise of NATO to such an extent that under-President, Trump's presidency, defense spending shot up by $400 billion inside NATO. The guy who was going to destroy it actually saved it.

Then we look at, oh, I don't know, the Middle East, five peace accords, five peace accords, in less than four years. These are meant to be failures for us. Let's look at the international environment. Under Obama, Ukraine, Crimea, taken. Under Biden, again, a second invasion, hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians and Russians dead. The largest loss of Jewish life since the Holocaust in Israel, and then the absolute surrender and betrayal of the Afghan people in a withdrawal that made Saigon look like a small incident. These are supposed to be the successes.

And as to this, oh, he's the most divisive. It's so peculiar, but I find it in case. I find it impossible to remember my former boss giving speeches in front of iconic locales such as Independence Hall in Philadelphia, bathed in red fascistic light, with Marines standing flanking him, labeling half of America extremists and fascists and preaching to us about white supremacy in his state of the union address. That really brings us together. This is the man who told us, Biden said on his inauguration, I'm going to be. bring you together by calling half the nation white supremacists. When the real racist problem in America are the Democrats on the campuses saying death to America from the river to the sea if you're Jewish,

that's the left today. Radicals who hate America. I go back to my original point. And then this strange idea of populism using this label as a smear, some kind of pejorative, I don't know. I remember the good old days where if you had the popular support of the people, that was a good thing. I don't like the elites. They stink. They're corrupt. But a guy comes along who has popular support. No, no, no, the elites will decide. Just like Sam Harris destroyed himself on your podcast when he said, I don't care if Hunter Biden had dead children in his basement. The plot against Donald Trump and the election in 2020 was, quote, justified. That's the left. That's the other side.

Those are the divisive people. I want to talk about a couple of things you raised there, which is foreign policy, geopolitics, et cetera, and also what's happening on college campuses, Stephen, as well. I would like you, before I go back to Stephen, to address you the one point that he made, which I think is worth exploring, which is we say this guy knows how to get things done,

and you say you had all these people in the White House and elsewhere who were working against him. What about what Stephen said, which is he just seems like an asshole that annoys everyone, and people can't work with him. Well, look, I've said it many times before. It is absolutely remarkable what he achieved in really, not four years, two years, despite the people who are subverting him

because they represent the elite class. What were those achievements again? The strong second we've ever had, lowest unemployment. No, like things he's done, not things had happened. What do you mean? What's the difference? So, like, if I stand outside and a tree grows, I would say that I grew the tree. Oh, yeah. If I planted the seeds to the tree.

He did nothing in regards to the climate. I'll give you the example. You said he did nothing with urge. Why said he did the tax cuts? Not his responsibility. When we came into the White House, the president had a modest goal. He said, I've had it with the growth of the state, you know, the burden on the average American.

60% of businesses are small businesses in America. I want to get the monkey off the back of the guy who has the family company. So what did he do? He said, I'm not going to sign any executive orders as president unless. for everyone I sign, two are rescinded. I want to have a redress of the balance, the abuse of executive power. We said, okay, sir, not the end of the first year, by the 10th month of the first year. That figure wasn't two to one. The figure was 22 to one. We had rescinded 22 executive orders for every new one the president's side. That's how you unleash the economy. And that's exactly

what happened. When you allow federal government lands to be used for energy exploration, when you say, yes, Excel Keystone Pipeline, when you block Russia's Nord Stream, that's when you unleash the American people. And that's on President Trump. Let's just finish this point, Seb, which is about the fact that Donald Trump is not able to lead the country well, because he's not able to bring enough people with him to buy into his vision. And instead, you had constant turmoil internally. And it's not just rhinos who were leaving. He was people like Steve Bannon. No, he didn't, he didn't leave. He was fired by the, by the chief of staff who was an actual seditionist, right? John Kelly fired him. Steve didn't want to go. So why didn't Donald Trump overrule him and said, this is my guy

on TV? Because he trusted Kelly. This is a four-star general, right? This is a guy who was in the Marine Corps. Sadly, he didn't know, he didn't have buddies in the swamp. But now, after the last seven years, let me assure you, because this is my number one concern, and I've discussed, discussed it with the president. He knows who to trust and he knows who not to trust. Therefore, he will achieve even more, God willing, if we reelect him in November. All right, Stephen, go for it. We'll do a few minutes with you. And then I want to move on to geopolitics. Yeah, I can incorporate that even. Yeah, the idea that Trump, a billionaire real estate developer from New York, didn't have friends in the swamp, which is very funny to me.

And the political swamp. Wasn't he literally in pictures at Hillary and Bill Clinton's wedding? I mean, like, the idea that you're living in Manhattan. It doesn't mean you're running a political campaign. No, but you have the connections. He's a realtor. He's a billionaire realtor. Who doesn't, has never run anything in government. How would you know who the good bureaucrat is and the crappy one like Foucher?

How would you know that? You're building real estate. Because real estate. Do you know a lot? You're in media. Do you know how to create a cable TV show? I know a decent about real estate. And I know that real estate is one of the most tax advantaged things.

I know that real estate has some of the highest integrations with city. Does that mean he knows who the secretary of defense should be? Would I, well, if he doesn't have any of these ideas, then you're making a very strong argument for career politicians. This is why people that tend to do politics, stay in politics, is because they're actually able to know these things. They understand these things. We need more of them, Stephen.

Well, considering that Trump, again, failed in every conceivable metric, and you weren't able to give me like any strong things that he actually succeeded. I just listed him. I said that he rescinded executive orders. Like, that is a measurable increase. Give me something like the Chips Act. Do you not think that matters, though? I mean, for the people who want to reduce the size of

government, that would be a thing. It's a service thing. I would encourage everybody that here is, there's two lines that people, there's one really common line that politicians always say, it's politic speak, which is funny that Trump utilized it, but it's this, I'm going to go line by line through the budget. I'm going to go line by line and I'm going to get rid of all wasteful spending. First of all, this is just fiscal stuff, okay? This impacts your budget, which, by the way, Trump ran record deficits when he was in office, so budgetarily he still failed. But this doesn't improve your economy or unleash your economy. It's not like we were rescinding significant executive orders that was destroying our ability to actually succeed. If anything, I would say that the most successful business that we had growing in the United States were our tech companies, that Republicans are constantly trying to undermine and destroy by getting rid of Section 230, which would make us you could sue Twitter when somebody posts something on Twitter that I don't like. So, no, the idea that Trump was unleashing the economy by rescinding some irrelevant executive orders that had no impact on the economy anyway. And the fact that he was still running these record level deficits, even though the economy was exploding all three years, at least under his presidency, is ridiculous.

Oh, man. If we want to go foreign policy, Jesus, almost every, almost every single decision that Trump made under foreign policy was either a form of kicking the can down the road or it just did nothing. We talk about like the historic stuff that happened with the Abraham Accords. I'm sorry, but the Abraham Accord started because Netanyahu was on the verge of annexing the West Bank and the Gulf states were like, this is probably not a good idea. And a lot of people are going to be mad. And then Kushner hopped in and there were official conversations that were essentially facilitated. eventually you start getting these bilateral treaties that are signed between Israel and other countries. But these bilateral treaties did something very important that's happened with other treaties with Israel, and that is that they undermine the Palestinians.

They didn't include them in any of the conversations. So when you look at what happened on October 7th, and then you look at Biden, you go, man, this must be Biden's fault. It's like, okay, well, didn't we just have a historic round of talks with countries in the Middle East? How is it that the Palestinians were excluded yet again from these talks, you know? And the idea that Trump was some strong partner in the Middle East when in 2019, Iran literally was shooting drones and missiles over into Saudi Arabian refineries and the United States stood by and did nothing. Or the idea that we're going to stand here and we're going to say, oh my God, in Afghanistan, you know, we pulled out and we abandoned our people. One, that timetable was sent by Donald Trump. He had a round of talks called the Doha talks that happened with the Taliban, and the Afghanistan government was completely excluded from those talks.

When Biden came into office, we'd already been drawn down to historically low numbers in Afghanistan. we had almost no military presence left over there. When Biden came into office, basically the last thing, the only thing left to do was to follow through on Trump's time table, which was to pull us out of Afghanistan. Hold on a second. Just on that particular thing, didn't you just say that if you're managing a restaurant and your boss comes in and sees a messy table, that's on you? And yet in this situation, you're saying it's Donald Trump's fault, even those Joe Biden that did it. Nice. There is, it's not nice. And I'll explain why. If you take over and you, I'm just trying to be fair. No, that's good for you. It's a good question. It's a good question. If you

take over a restaurant and you're the manager of a restaurant, you bought a business, and somebody comes in and they say, hey, I'm going to actually, I'm going to sit here with me and 20 friends, okay, because that's what we're going to do. And I go, well, no, that's bullshit. And they go, well, actually, you bought this restaurant and we signed a contract with your last boss that gave us the right to do this for a year. Well, if you buy a business, generally you also inherit, along with the assets and liabilities, prior agreements you've signed as well, or the previous owner did. With the Doha agreements, we were on a timetable to leave. Now, could Biden have increased the troop presence and fought against that withdrawal. He could have, but then at what

cost? Remember, it only takes one or two attacks against U.S. soldiers by the Taliban to have the United States thinking, like, well, shoot, do we need to stay there for another 10 or 20 years? I agree that the pullout could have gone better. I think that there were people that should have had the opportunity to leave that country that worked with us, that should have come out, that didn't get that opportunity. But like, compare that to say, because remember, this is done under a Trump timetable. What is Trump's excuse for abandoning the Kurds that? that we fought alongside in Syria to a Turkish onslaught. There was no excuse for that.

There was no reason for that. But he did that with, I don't even know because he said, why don't I want to be in the Middle East anymore? And then he what? He obscured all the information relating to Yemen drone strikes that we were helping Saudi Arabia with, as opposed to Biden, who said we're no longer going to participate in the Saudi-led coalition in Yemen, which was, I think, an improvement.

We axed the Iranian nuclear deal, and then we replaced it with nothing. I guess ostensibly that's supposed to keep Iran from pursuing nuclear weapons. We had historic photographs taken with Kim and our leaders for nothing, I guess. I've heard Sebastian claim in the past that they stopped ballistic missile testing. That's not true. That you can literally go on the Wikipedia and read, test, test, test, test, test after the dates. Pence and, I believe, Taylorson were both complaining about those talks because literally nothing got done in North Korea. Yeah, every part of Donald Trump's foreign policy, it was a

disaster. Let me give you a narrative that is popular. with people who probably don't agree with you, which is that the main thing about Donald Trump is that people around the world, and I can tell you this is true, people around the world feared and respected him. They didn't like him necessarily, but they feared and respected him. And the fact that you have Iran backed people from Gaza committing October 7th, the fact that Putin felt able to invade Ukraine, the fact that China is getting more muscular on Taiwan, this This is a sign of the perceived weakness of the United States under Joe Biden.

And you can take that at whatever level you want all the way through to sitting down a chorus from Joe Biden and going, this guy can't finish a sentence. If we want to say that the United States has a weak foreign disposition right now, I think I would probably agree with that. But I don't think it's because of Biden. I think it's because of how divided we are internally. And I think when you look at a country and you see that they're fighting with themselves, like, okay, well, let's come over here.

I wrote a whole book about that, so I definitely agree with you. Because like when I look at any of these particular issues, and it's easy to kind of like paint a story if you just like name some things and you don't really dig into them. Like we talk about Iran, right? And we say, well, October 7th, Iran was bold enough to, you know, do foreign proxy training for troops in Hamas. Okay, well, Iran physically literally attacked Saudi Arabia under Donald Trump and nothing happened. So why would we imagine that they wouldn't back Hamas as well? It's not like Trump destroyed. It's not about imagination.

It didn't happen. Well, no, that attack did happen. Iran attacked Saudi Arabia and Trump didn't. October 7, which is bolder than October 7. Sure, but from an Iranian perspective, that attack was bolder than October 7. What about Ukraine, etc. Yeah, for Ukraine, Donald Trump didn't, like, the Crimean Peninsula was inhabited by Russian troops the entire time. Donald Trump didn't do anything to stop that. Donald Trump didn't care about that. It's not like we'd pull anything out of there. Let me just do this bit. Yeah. That's a bit different though, Stephen, because in in 2014, as Seb said, correctly, under Obama, Russia took Ukraine. and started a civil war in eastern Ukraine.

Yeah. Steve wanted us to invade. To recapture Crimea at that point would have meant literally World War III. So nobody could have retaken Ukraine. It's not like Joe Biden's position when he was elected was we're going to help Ukraine retake Crimea. Yeah. So what I'm putting to you, and I think it's a fair question, is isn't it the weakness of the withdrawal from Afghanistan? I think we'd both agree it was calamitous.

whoever's fault it was, that's where the debate was, signaled weakness to other people who wanted to capitalize on that. Yes, I agree with you. The internal divisions in America contribute to that. But ultimately, isn't a large part of this the signaling of weakness that invites challenge? No, because again, I would say, pointing to Ukraine, it's not like Russia stopped their military activity in Ukraine because of Trump being in office. The invasion just hadn't escalated yet to where they were doing a full on actual on the ground's military invasion instead of the more support and stuff they're doing in the down. Under Trump, post the 2014 taking of Crimea and once the Minsk Accords were in place, there was no hot war going on in Ukraine. There was still

the civil war in the Southeast. That war has been raging for like 10 years. The conflict, you think there was a total, sustained? Didn't those Minsk agreements last for like months? The, no. Minsk one and two? No, look, I have a lot of family in Ukraine. The region, I understand very well. Post the Minsk Accords, there was no hot war going on. For how long? Well, until the invasion, basically. Until the invasion. It was pretty stable.

Now, I'm not saying there wasn't the occasional people, but it was broadly, there was a ceasefire in place. People were not killing each other en masse. Okay. That I can tell you from. I'd have to go and I'd have to, I would look at it. Is out of his depth? Is that out of my depth?

Okay. I mean, we can focus on the Middle East more if you want. But yeah, no, I just, I don't think that, I mean, Trump, you know, we talk about NATO. I think that Trump was constantly like NATO skeptic on the international level. I think a lot of people expressed a lot of fear for that. Well, he wanted them, he wanted other nations within NATO to contribute their fair share. Yeah, their military percentage of GDP funding. Which they were not doing. And he was saying,

we can't continue with NATO if America is the only country that's actually paying its way. Sure, but the idea that the leader of NATO would be publicly undermining NATO and saying we might have to pull out our stop at people. I think there are more diplomatic ways to pursue those conversations. He never ever once said he was going to pull out forces. You just make stuff up, Steve. And you've got to stop it. Like there was hot fighting in Ukraine. Focus on the issue. Come on. No, this is important. Give us the fact. Because this is, this is an era where you can win if you want.

So give us the fact. This is tactics. He just floods the zone with stuff that's false. Let's address the stuff. Let's talk about it. We can go claim by claim if you want. Well, that's what I'd like to do. When we were in the White House, and you know this, as opposed to what Obama did,

Obama after the invasion of Crimea, the jewel of Ukraine stolen, what did Obama do? He sent blankets and night vision devices. If you don't believe me, look it up. Blankets and Night Vision devices. When we came in, I don't understand this. Steven's positing that we should have invaded. I've never said that. Oh, well, there was land in Ukraine that the Russians controlled

and Trump didn't do anything about it. What, one intervention? I didn't know you're a neocon, Steve. When we got into the White House, did I say that we should invade anybody? You said that Trump did nothing about the land taken by Russia. I said that Russia didn't run away from Crimea. They didn't fear.

And you said there were. operations were continuing. Garbage. There were no military operations in Crimea, in Ukraine or on the border. Crimea was captured. The whole thing is military operations. There were no military. There's constant is right. There was no hot war. You're just making stuff up. When we came into the White House, we deployed javelin shoulder-launched anti-tank weapons to Ukraine. So they could defend themselves. And for four years, it's interesting. The diminutive KGB colonel did nothing. The idea that, oh, I'm going to kind of explain away what happened in Afghanistan. Let's break Afghanistan down for a second. Yes, there was a timetable for President Trump, but it was conditions based. If the Taliban hadn't met those

conditions, there would have been no withdrawal. I was part of those negotiations. Let me tell you, there would have been no withdrawal without those conditions having been met. Instead, because he wants a photo op for the anniversary of 9-11. I mean, what a cynical. Biden wants an anniversary, 20th anniversary photo op that I won the war in Afghanistan. So 13 of our servicemen are murdered by ISIS at Kabul Airport. Thousands, thousands of Afghans, also our interpreters are left. You see a plane take off with hundreds of people hanging on the fuselage. And how do they leave?

Oh, we're going to get the military out and then we'll somehow get out the civilians. the rank dilettantism for the photo op that you don't even leave from bagram, which is a military airbase, you can actually defend. You go to KIA in Kabul, indefensible, and you have a complete circus, well, not a circus, a tragedy of a surrender. And then Putin goes, okay, lads, rev your engines. We're going to invade Ukraine. Then Hamas says, ooh, yeah, let's kill hundreds of Jews on Israelis. soil. That's on Biden. And so let me put an argument. Payne why I'm curious for that? What were the conditions based for that Afghanistan agreement, for the Doha agreement? Well, the conditions that you feel like the Taliban, name a couple.

Control of Wardak province had to be stabilized. We had to have her rat, have less Iranian influence. I'm not going to go into any more details because they're classified, Stephen. Okay. What you're saying is just not true. One of the, one of the big reasons, One of the big reasons why that pullout was so catastrophic is because because the Afghanistan Army wasn't, and you can read all this, there was a huge report that was done by the United States, analyzing the failures for why that fell so fast. And part of it was because the United States had negotiated away some of the land that was previously controlled by the Afghanistan government to the Taliban. We didn't even tell the Taliban about that. So the Taliban were to roll into cities and say, by the way, we agreed to this and the United States said we could have this. And at some point, the Afghanist army is like, screw this. And they just started to endhole retreat from these areas.

Let me put a challenge to you, Seb. You mentioned giving javelins to the Ukrainians, et cetera. I mean, as you well know, and by the way, it's interesting that even though we all three from different kind of ways of seeing the world, actually on Ukraine, there's quite a lot of agreement in this room, ironically. But there are a lot of people on your side who have bought this idea that this is Ukraine, the reason the war in Ukraine happened is that Russia was provoked. It was provoked by the expansion of NATO.

It was provoked by the giving of weaponry to Ukraine. So what would you say to the people who say, well, yeah, Donald Trump gave stuff to the Ukrainians, and that's why Russia invaded. The right window treatments change everything, your sleep, your privacy, the way every room looks and feels. At blinds.com, we've spent 30 years making it surprisingly simple to get exactly what your home needs. We've covered over 25 million windows and have 50,000 five-star reviews to prove we deliver. Whether you DIY it or want a pro to handle everything from measure to install, we have you covered. Real design professionals, free samples, zero pressure. Right now, get up to 50% off with minimum purchase, plus get a free professional measure at

blinds.com. Rules and restrictions apply. I don't think we need to go down, you know, a kind of rabbit hole on this. You know my stance. You know, there's me, Dennis Prager, and, you know, Claibor and Mark Levine. That's about, you know, the three conservatives who are strong on Ukraine. We reject the Tukharite isolationism, the neo-Bicananite isolationism. But the whole, I mean, you're the expert. You're the guy who translates Putin's speeches immediately when they're giving.

And this Hori Kahnard that we encircled Russia or that U.S. presidents have provoked this great champion of Western christendom called Vladimir Putin is asinine. I mean, you know better than anyone for 22 years since he became premier, Vladimir Putin has been giving speeches on the fact that Ukraine, Poland, the Baltic states are all legitimate and need to be parts of Russia. He's been planning this ever since he, you know, walked into the palace in Moscow. Can I ask a personal question? I'm curious. I'm not personal, personal politics. My mom came from Cuba, and my mom and dad were in the Air Force. When I grew up, my parents hated China and Russia for understandable reasons. My mom flew on the looking glass mission, looking for basically nuclear missiles, doomsday, end of the world type stuff. And yeah, the fall of the Soviet Union, the Iron Curtain was a monumental in the world. And it sounds like you have similar feelings about Russia, which I'm happy to hear. Does it bother you or does it give you pause that so many fans underdown the world? Trump, that so many of the people that support him seem to be so either skeptical about supporting

Ukraine or fallen in support of Russia because they see them as a stronger, better country, that champions Christian values better, or doesn't submit to the woke mob better, and that maybe it is their right to own Ukraine, and the U.S. provoke that? It bothers me that there are such voices on the putative conservative right. I have come to the conclusion they're not numerous, and they have nothing to do with my former boss. Let me tell you a story about that. We've heard for seven years still. Hillary was doing it a few days ago, that he loves Putin and Russia collusion, Russia collusion. One story. It's so amusing that there are people who are such experts on the Wagner group now,

right after the fake coup. We were experts on the Wagner group in the Trump administration. We informed President Trump very early on that there are 300 Wagner groups special forces guys running around the Middle East destabilizing the region. We weren't neocons. He's not an interventionist, but he's not an isolationist. He's the perfect balance between the two. And he said, what? Putin's got hundreds of guys running around the Middle East. That's not good. I'm not going to invade the Middle East. I'm not an interventionist. But he told Secretary Mattis, kill them, kill them now. Four hours later, every single member of the Wagner Group's special forces deployment was red mist.

What did Vladimir Putin do? Nothing. He crapped his pants. He didn't even hold a press conference because he was afraid of what President Trump would do next. That's what President Trump understands is the use of force, not intervention, but when you cross a line, when you destabilize regions that are already destabilized enough in Syria, when we informed him, this is now declassified, that there was a second chemical weapons attack being prepared by the Assad regime, what do he do? While Xi Jinping was having chocolate cake in Mar-a-lago, he dropped 52 cruise missiles on that airbase and turned it into a sheet of glass and whispered into Xi's ear, I think you should know what I just did in Syria. That was a message for Xi, for Putin, for Kim in North Korea.

for the Mullers in Iran. That's why for four years no new wars. I don't understand why you aren't happy that for four years we had no new wars under Trump. And now you think you can blame, you can blame October the 7th on Donald Trump. You can blame the invasion of Ukraine for a second time under a Democrat president on Donald Trump. It's actually an insult to intellect. For four years, the world was safe. And now we have a world on fire. But yeah, the guy who's in court today in Manhattan, it's his fault. It's laughable. Anything you want to say? Both the situations are just completely and totally misrepresented. The attack on the Syrian airfield, they had advanced warning of that attack. There were no soldiers there. They did chemical weapons. Trump said, we're going to bomb your airport. This is the one we're going to bomb. We'll give you a little bit to get out. And then we bombed it. And that was it. That was it. That was it. That was it. It was a big, business as a business as usual. The idea that was some huge strong show of force is hilarious. No chemical weapons were used again.

And the Wagner group, I mean, this operates as a paramilitary organization. Of course, Russia is not going to claim direct responsibility, at least prior to the Ukrainian war for any activities that they do. That's fine, but Russia's not going to claim Putin. He's not going to claim personal responsibility over any of their. He didn't even hold press conference on 300 Russians being killed. Of course he's not, because it's the Wagner group. That's the whole point.

Also, the Wagner. Talk to me about the wars. The people that were eliminated. The people that were eliminated. Was that Obama? The conditions for the wars were being created. But the Wagner group that was, the Wagner members that were destroyed in the Middle East

wasn't Trump saying there's people in the Middle East, let's get them. It was them attacking the U.S. position in Syria and then getting destroyed by U.S. air support. That's what happened. Constantin, this is exactly what I feared would happen. This is Alice in Wonderland through the looking glass.

Donald Trump is not responsible for anything good he did for four years and all the awful things that happened in the last three and a half, yeah, those are his culpability. It's insanity. It beggars critical thought. I think that like to let me just real quick, just on one thing, okay, because it's, it's frustrating because like the analysis is childlike to defend Trump, right? Well, there were no wars, right? Wars don't just come out of nowhere. There's a buildup for how these things happen. So we've talked very specifically, just on one event. Also, keep in mind, when you say, like, I don't want to go into the weeds or get into a rabbit hole,

It feels like it's because you know you're wrong if you actually get into the details of things. When you look at October 7th, what are things that Donald Trump did to signal how October 7th would have gone? Well, when Iran attacked Saudi Arabia, he did nothing. He showed strong support for Israel by moving the embassy to Jerusalem. And we signed the Abraham Accords, which were mediated them, which were bilateral negotiations between Israel and other Arab countries that didn't involve the Palestinians whatsoever. How do you not look at these three things? This is like, wow, I need to respond to this. You will.

That are relating to October 7. Like, these are the types of things that lead to that type of violence. This is actually disgusting. This is dishonorable. It's a lot of adjectives for the facts. Now, stop it for a moment. Okay, just stop it because you've just blamed President Trump for October the 7. I did not blame Trump for October 7.

You said, no, stop it. I'm going to respond now because this is your debating tactic. It's not a tactic. You're like an ADHD version of Ben Shapiro. You throw out stuff out there. And then it's all garbage. But beneath it is actual venomous, venomous illogic. Is that what history is, venomous, illogical?

Will you just shut up for two minutes? Seth, hold on a sec. Let me respond to him. You have to respond to a single point. Guys, both of you stop right now. First of all, Seb, you got to stop insulting him. Secondly, when he was talking, you were interrupting a lot. I tried to stop you.

Now you were talking, he's interrupting a lot. So let him interrupt. So what I'd like for both of you to do is just make your points in a slightly calm and more. respectful way. Go ahead. Right. So what he just did is he said the conditions for the largest slaughter of Jews since 1945 were created by President Trump. That's horrific. Good response, sir. Stephen, chill for a second, both of you. Said, go ahead. It's almost like a blood libel.

It's really, you know, the fact that this man, let me talk to you about who Donald Trump is. for 23 years swamp politicians of left and right broke a promise to Israel. Bill Clinton said, I'm going to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of the Jewish state, and I'm going to move our embassy. Because of that statute, every six months for 23 years, the incumbent president, Clinton, Obama, and Bush, had to send a diplomatic missive to Jerusalem saying, sorry, I know we promised this, but we're not doing it now. When my former boss was chosen by 63 million Americans to be the chief executive,

he said, I'm doing this. By the way, a man whose daughter is Jewish, whose grandchildren are Jewish, he held a meeting of the National Security Council at principals level, not the bureaucrats, but the actual cabinet members. And he told them all, I'm moving the embassy and I'm recognizing Jerusalem. Only three members of his cabinet, shockingly, supported him, and his Secretary of Defense, this man who had very carefully built his reputation as Mard Dog Mattis, was petrified and told the president, Mr. President, don't do this.

You will ignite World War III, and I don't have enough Marines to protect our embassies. What was the president's response? He said, I'm doing this for three reasons, Jim. Number one, I promised the people of America who elected me during the campaign. Number two, for 23 years, we've told the Israelis we're going to do this and we haven't. We have dishonored our oath. And three, it's the right thing to do, Jim. We moved the embassy and no bombings, no slaughter of women at pop concerts in the desert,

no men being beheaded with blunt garden hose. I watched the unedited video of what happened on October the 7th. Strangely, none of that happened. But when Joe Biden comes in, surrenders Afghanistan, and Ukraine is invaded, then we have, suddenly, we have 1,300 Jews massacred. No, it's not Donald Trump. fault that he recognized Jerusalem, moved our embassy. It's because nobody fears the senile old man in the White House who talks to dead people and thinks his wife is his sister. That's why the world

is on fire. And don't you dare blame President Trump for what happened on October the 7th, because that is despicable and you know it. Stephen, there's other stuff I want to ask you about, but I feel like you should have a right to respond if you want to. Yeah, there's not a substantive analysis. I mean, it's a bunch of virtue signaling. It's a bunch of, oh, how dare you? I saw the videos and blah, blah, blah. But the reality was, is Donald Trump was an idiot when it came to foreign policy. He didn't understand the intricacies of any of the situations that he nor his administration were involved in. And a lot of the stuff that he did during his presidency was kind of a buildup to the frustrations that would

obviously come out on October 7th and that horrible terrorist attack. It's funny that you were even slightly prescient without realizing it by saying that like, well, if we move the embassy, there's got to be World War III. Yeah. moving the embassy and showing that kind of support for Israel while they're continuing to kick people out of neighborhoods in East Jerusalem, while the rest of the Arab world is having this huge separation between what their people think, because a lot of Arabs aren't really happy with Israel. But the leadership is kind of like done with the conflict and they want to move on. But it's continuing to antagonize those types of things. It's the Abraham Accords, again, these completely cut out the Palestinians from any of the conversation whatsoever. Donald Trump was a man who loved cheap victories.

The idea that I can get bilateral peace between Israel and Saudi Arabia, who for all intents of purposes had already basically normalized like conversations with each other. You don't think it was historic? No. The Abraham Accords? No, absolutely not. The impetus for the Abraham Accords was if you look at what's going on in Palestine, there's a big part of the West Bank called Area C that Israel is holding on to. And Netanyahu was essentially signaling that he was about to start to formally annex parts of these. So they've formally annexed the Golan Heights a while ago. you've got East Jerusalem is more or less formally annexed now by Israel, and now they were going to start to encroach into Area C's and formally annexed that, because I think it's kind of the goal for Israel. And the, I think it was Qatar, I think that might have been the first ones to say this, but

like, we need to talk and do something because if this happens, it's going to be catastrophic. And then Kushner inserted himself into this process, and then we got the Abraham courts out of that to delay essentially the annexation of the West Bank. But again, it was a cheap win without solving any actual problems, because the big stickler right now, at least in the Gulf States, and in the Levant is Palestine and Palestinians. And Trump got us no closer to any of that. Again, a cheap win, whether it's the Abraham Accords or the Doha talks with the Taliban,

in exchange for an actual real solution, which would have been lasting peace solved for Afghanistan or an actual deal that involved the Palestinians. Donald Trump wanted neither of those. But, man, we sure got a lot of really good stories and moving speeches about it. Again, I want one sentence. Just one sentence or one word.

I want the viewers and the listeners to note his choice of it. words which is very telling. This man labeled October the 7th the result of frustrations. The murder of women and children and grandmother mothers is justified as the result of frustrations. You got your sentence. I didn't mean it in an dismissive way. I'm just trying to make sure that you both have the right amount of time and being fair. So the one question I think that we ought to be thinking about in terms of the geopolitics side of things is Donald Trump could be re-elected? Or Joe Biden could be re-elected. How do you think Joe Biden is going to improve the

global situation? I think we all accept that the world is on fire in terms of everything that's going on. The conflict in Ukraine, the conflict in Israel and Gaza. If Joe Biden is re-elected, what gives you hope that he's going to resolve these things in the way that you talked about, having some kind of long-term solution to these very complicated, difficult issues? How do you think he'll solve that? When I think of the three hotbed spots right now, in my mind, I'm thinking China and Taiwan, I'm thinking Ukraine and Russia, and I'm thinking Israel and Palestine, I think of the three hotbed foreign policy things right now.

When I look at Joe Biden's behavior for Ukraine, I feel like it was about as well as it could have been in that we were able to gather a wide amount of support across Europe. We were able to energize our allies. We were able to add to our NATO roster. We were able to raise a lot of money and send stuff to Ukraine, while at the same time drawing like a very clear, like, listen, we're supporting them, but we're not going to have troops on the ground. We're not going to do no fly zones. We're not going to do anything crazy. Nothing that's going to set us on some road that we can't turn back from to go to World War III, but we're going to support them as much as we can, basically. I wish the support would be a little bit stronger. I understand the support would be a little bit stronger. I think for the most part, I think Biden's handling of the Ukraine-Russia situation. May I pose you just that? Because on that issue, my perspective is slightly different in that I understand the hesitation about offering more help and it's a lot of money and it doesn't enjoy as much domestic support as it did at the beginning of the conflict, et cetera.

But I can tell you what's happening on the ground now is even though these bills are very controversial in America and they're hard to pass, that's $61 billion. It's not going to make any difference on the ground. Ukraine is losing. I'm sad to say this. I was very keen advocate of us helping them. I don't know that I would agree with you that that strategy is going to be effective going forward. What I'm saying is if the current way of dealing with that situation continues,

what will happen is Ukraine will keep losing hundreds of thousands of men, as Russia will. Ukrainians will lose and lose territory. And eventually they will get a worse deal than the one that they might have done a year ago when the Ukrainians made huge advantages thanks to the weaponry and the support that the United States provided. So how do you think Joe Biden is likely to resolve that situation going forward? Because I will put it to you, what's happening now is not working. Okay, I haven't heard the same, but maybe we talk to different people or see different things. I've got a lot of friends that go back and forth through the front lines.

And I've heard there were huge complaints relating to a amount of shells available or what they thought the support would look like. So, for instance, sometimes you can't advance, not because you don't have the weapons to advance, but once you advance, you don't think you have the supplies to maintain that advance. Well, that is what's happened, right? They retook territory, and now they've been sliding back. Now, I'm not saying the artillery shells they're going to get now are going to make no difference, like, in small situations. But on the big picture, it's not going to make any difference.

Ukraine is so good to be. S-16s are supposed to be online, I think, by the end of this year or maybe even in the next few months. I mean, I'll be honest. I mean, I'm not going to be delusional. Ukraine winning, I think, is still probably like a less than 50% chance thing of happening. And when I say win, I mean, like, at least take back Don't ask in Lou Hensk. But the – I think there's an important question to be asked about, like, who is to tell Ukraine not to fight?

Like if we have the ability to supply them with weapons and if we want to stand by them for as long as they're willing to fight, does not send an important message to, say, China, where we would say we would support Taiwan or we would support them in whatever capacity that we feel is responsible until we feel like the fight is completely over, rather than like, well, we're a democracy, so if you can make the war last for a couple years,

it's probably going to be unpopular, we're going to pull out, which is historically like a strength or a weakness that democracies kind of have. So I think that showing support for Ukraine is important in two ways. One is the moral way that if they want to fight, they should be enabled to. It's funny, I hear foreign people express more concern over people dying in Ukraine in this war than I've ever heard Ukrainians express. Like, I'll hear people all over there be like, oh my God, these poor Ukrainians, they're dying. We need to stop supporting them. And then

I hear Ukrainians say, we want to fight. Russia is taking our territory. My wife's Ukraine and my mother's Ukraine. I'm very concerned about Ukrainians dying because I have family and friends on the ground. Now, at the same time, I've always said from day one, as I think you both know, is Ukraine needs the support that we were giving them to get the best possible deal because they were always going to lose territory. So I guess what I'm saying is how is this conflict going to come to the right, the best possible end for the Ukrainians, which is what I care about, right, under Joe Biden? How is he going to, in your opinion, resolve that? Because throwing some artillery shells at them when they get desperate every now and again doesn't seem to me like the root to what we might want

for them and also for the interests of the West. As the crispy chicken sandwich from 7-Eleven, people always call me loud. And I'm like, yeah, I know. I'm crispy. Did you expect me to whisper? If you want quiet, go eat some soup and reflect. Like, I know I'm a handful. I'm bold, I'm juicy.

Throw some pickles and barbecue sauce on me, and baby, I'm a whole meal. And with seven rewards, I'm just $4. Quiet, no. Krispy, saucy, and $4? Very. Only at 711. Valley 36-2326, participating stores only well supplies last the app for full terms. Yeah, I mean, I think that the path forward is to supply them as much as, and as long as they're willing to fight.

And then once it seems like the fight is done or Ukrainians lose the will to fight or it's basically positioned itself into a war where no gains are being made or lost, then at that point you look for some kind of offering or some kind of peace deal. So Ukrainians would obviously, Ukraine would negotiate with Russia, with somebody mediating. I don't even know who would mediate that. But I mean, that's basically all you can do. But I'm not sure. I don't know significantly more, I guess, what the U.S. could. do in that case. Well, I guess what American people, I imagine, would want to know is, like, if we vote for Joe Biden again, how is he going to make this problem go away? I guess that's how

most people would just be thinking about this. Well, I mean, unfortunately, it's not, it's a, I'm going to ask him only same questions, by the way. Yeah, I don't think there's anything the US person who does make it go away. We could tell Ukraine, like, we'll stop fighting right now. What we could say to them is, look, we've come to the end of the road. There's clearly the domestic situation as such that we're not going to be able to give you much more, it's time to start looking for the deal. Do you think is it the U.S. is place to say that if Ukraine wants to continue to fight? Well, the U.S. is to decide whether the U.S. is going to provide weapons or not, and then Ukrainians can make their own decision. But I'm saying, like, if Ukraine wants to

fight, should we say, well, we don't want you to fight anymore? We're going to pull that. No, what I think we're misunderstanding each other on is this. If the president of the United States was to say to the Ukrainians, we are not going to provide you with more weapons, the Ukrainians would then have a choice to make, they would not make the choice to keep fighting. Yeah, of course. But that's what I'm asking, I guess, is like, is it? Because we're essentially, we truly are making the choice for them, regardless, right? Like, if we continue to support them, we're at least enabling them to say yes or no. But if we say, okay, well, we're kind of pulling out, then you guys are done fighting. Like, is it the United States' place? If we have the opportunity

and the means to help, should the United States say we're done? Well, that's what I'm asking you. So I guess... I don't think we should. And I don't think Biden would. So what I'm hearing from you is, if we, if the United States votes for Joe Biden, he will continue to give them support at the level that he can muster in order that they can keep fighting or not, depending on what they want. That would be my assumption, yeah. Okay. I don't see that changing.

And on this side of things, is there anything more you want to say before I go to Seb? For, yeah, for, I mean, for Israel, Palestine, I think that is an incredibly touchy issue. I don't think that Trump has the ability to navigate that. No, no, focus on Biden. What would Biden do to solve that? Oh, for Biden, like, I mean, I think that Biden has done a good job at providing support for an ally, which I think is always important because the United States needs to be seen as supporting people they say they'll support, while also trying to reign in Israel a bit. So I think we were saying that I don't know how true these conversations are, but as of recently, I think Biden was telling Israel that like if there's a huge wrapper rate, if a bunch of people start dying, like we're going to start to condition some of this military aid.

I know that initially when they announced their invasion on the seventh, I think that we encourage them like, you need to wait and chill for people to actually move out of northern Gaza before you guys start attacking. I know we've pressured them a lot to allow more humanitarian aid in, that Erich's Crossing opening, I think it was a really good thing, the port, the humanitarian aid port that's being built by the United States. So the Navy Corps, the Engineering Corps. I think that was a really good idea. I would hope to see more of that. But I also imagine that this conflict is probably going to be mostly done by election season.

The Rafa invasion is happening. And then after that, I don't know what else there is to do in the Gaza Strip. But I feel like whatever that situation looks like afterwards, whether that's Israel occupations, in Gaza for some short period of time or whatever, I think it looks better under Biden because I think Biden is more likely to tell Israel like, hey, you're not going to start building settlements here or, hey, you're not going to do this or that because he's already sanctioned some people in the West Bank who are building outposts. I think that Biden would have a better handle on controlling Ukraine there, rather than Trump, who I feel would give a little bit more unconditional

support. I'm controlling Israel, I think. I don't have I just said Ukraine. Yeah, you meant Israel. Yeah, okay. Seb, if we, if the people of the United States vote for President Trump in 2014. How is he, you said the world's on fire. 24. We're all getting everything wrong. Let's start again. If the United, the people, can't do it. If the people. If he wins, if the good guy wins. I'm neutral in this debate. You just wrote a book on saving Western civilization. I did. I'm not sure. Electing Donald Trump is the only way to do that. But if the people of the United States elect

President Trump again to be their leader, you said the world is on fire. How is he going to extinguish those fires and bring peace to the world. Well, at the risk of talking about what I did in the White House because they're just stories, but you know, I think they matter historically. Come on, be the bigger man. Come on. I used, I got this question asked all the time when we were there saying, what's President Trump's national security stance? What's his foreign policy stance? What makes him different? And I just spent two and a half years teaching the Marines

at Quantico and I just stole their motto. I said, under President Trump as commander in chief, no better friend, no worse enemy. And it's exactly what we did. The bad guys around the the world were petrified, good guys felt safe, whether it's Israel, the UK, NATO nations, they understood American leadership was back. With regards to specific conflicts, President Trump has said what he's going to do in the Ukraine. He will end the fighting very rapidly by behind closed doors saying to Zelinsky, look, I know you want your country back, but you have to sit down and negotiate. It is, you know, it has to happen now and I'll help you.

And then he says to Vladimir Putin, the obverse of what you were positing. He says, you need to sit down now with Kiev, or the aid we have given already will be minuscule to what I'm going to give, Zelensky. May I pause you there? Yes. Because this is an important thing to tease out. That is one of the reasons that I, that to me seems like a credible way of solving that confidence. I've said this from day one. whoever does that deal has to go in with a carrot and a stick.

Correct. How is Donald Trump going to go in there and make the claim that he will quadruple or 10x, the aid that's already been given to Ukraine, when half his own party basically supports Russia at this point? I mean, that's an exaggeration. It's a not fair thing to say. But you know what I mean. But that's not a public discussion.

I very specifically said behind closed doors. Why would Putin believe that threat? Because he's made a measure of this man for four years. He understands that this isn't about bluff. When you decide to use chemical weapons, will turn your chemical weapons base into a sheet of glass. If you're planning to kill 600 U.S. servicemen in the Middle East, will kill you with a drone as you're on your way to meet the puppet prime minister of Iraq.

That's what we did to Qasem Soleimani. I know. He knows the words mean something. Yes, but I'm just saying if Putin's thinking about it logically, which I believe he is, then he will say, look, Donald Trump is saying to me, he's going to throw the kitchen sink and give everything Ukraine that they possibly could get. But at the same time, I see the internal divisions that we've talked about already. How is Donald Trump going to sell this to his own party when half of the people involved

are really against helping Ukraine at all? And that seems to me like a not particularly credible threat, even if it's coming from Donald Trump. But again, you're mixing open political communications. with what is done behind closed booms, diplomatic. He doesn't have to go to Congress and say, I'm about to tell Vlad this, and you better back me up. That's not how it works. Yeah, let's just clarify this.

What I'm saying is, let's say that they are sitting behind closed doors. Why would Vladimir Putin believe the threat? If he knows that Donald Trump can't then go back and actually sell the 10x of supporters of people. Because it's a risky bet to say, you know, he can't communicate this to. his base and I'm not going to take him seriously. That's a very dangerous. I mean, you know, did you watch the Victory Day parade yesterday in Moscow? With one tank. Yes, I did. Not just one tank.

It was one T-34. Not even the T-80, right? During the Cold War, it was scarred missiles, it was ZS3-324s. It was hundreds of tanks. One tank from the 1930s. I don't think he can risk hundreds of thousands of Russians on the off chance that, you know, he may not get that support from Congress. I'm just going to bluff him out. Let me ask you a different way. Do you think it's credible to argue that Donald Trump could get the Republican Party to 10x support for Ukraine? You think he can sell that?

You think he can... Well, look, he wrote the art of the deal. The party is really his with Lara, you know, co-chair of the RNC, with a lot of the rhinos. actually resigning or not running again this year. It's, I'm worried. But it's not the rhinosur the problem on Ukraine. No, no, it's the isolationists. But I don't think the isolationists can go up against President Trump and say,

yeah, sorry, you want the election, you're the president, but we're going to, you know, we're not behind you. You think he can take the party with him on that? I think he can, but I think the more important thing is he can convince Putin behind closed doors that, dude, don't risk it. it's not worth it. And with regards to everything else, it's really quite amusing now that we're six months away from the election, I'm doing more and more international media. And when, you know, the news agency of Sweden or Poland or whatever comes and they say, so what's it going to be

like if President Trump wins? And I always say, were you alive when he was president? It was only a few years ago. It's going to be a redo of that. So whether it's China policy, it's going to be a very forthright, robust economic trade war with China, whether it's the United States. Whether it's the The Muellers, it's going to be, you know, the swinging sanctions regime we put in place that almost had the whole of the economy of the IRGC on its knees by the end of the Trump administration. With regards to NATO, we'll be back to what the current Secretary-in-General, Stoltenberg, who is a former left-wing prime minister and minister of the environment said, is absolutely what it should be with increased spending in every member meeting its 2% of GDP target

force goals. So if you want to know what it's going to be like, it'll be like the Trump administration the first time around with the special addition of the deal with Vladimir Putin to scare him into negotiating. And then with regards to Israel, Israel, it's pretty obvious. This is the most philosemitic president since 1948 in the rebirth of Israel. And I expect President Trump to give Israel everything they need. And how will he look to settle that issue long term? because obviously that's an ongoing conflict that has been. I feel like the world has come to a point where everyone is horrified by what they're seeing, irrespective of what their political position is,

the fact that that conflict is happening is horrific, and it has reached horrific levels of mass killing, right? Right, but we also have people on, you know, US campuses who are, you know, chanting from the river to the sea. So they may be horrified, but they're actually on the wrong. side of that conflict. Look, there's no, with regards to the Middle East, we'll try and revivify the Abraham Accords, but with regards to Gaza, we have to be very blunt here. They have to kill every terrorist, every single terrorist responsible for October the 7th. But if you look

at every poll, there's been three significant polls taken since October the 7th of Gaza residents. And between 72 and 78% of the residents support what happened on October the 7th. That is not something that is militarily soluble, right? You have an environment, you have a population that supports genocidal murder of women and children. I think the long-term solution, it's an un-American answer because it's not really a solution. We tend to think we can solve everything. It's a far more European one. Israel, after October 7th, has to kill everyone responsible for that attack, and then they will be responsible for the security of Gaza for the possible future. Not Hamas, not anybody else.

Israel. Do we then not go back to square one where essentially Israel is living with a population who are being badly treated or feel that, let's just use neutral language, who feel that they're being very badly treated, they're oppressed, they're going to rise up against it and we're just going to have more terrorism. and all of this horror is just going to continue. I'm not saying I have a better answer, by the way, just to be... But, you know, this was my thing for 20 years, was counterterrorism policy.

Effective counterterrorism is about attacking two things. It's like any enemy, really. You have to attack their capability to hurt you, and you have to undermine their will to hurt you. The Israelis have been very good at the capability thing, right? We take out their chief bomb makers. We interdict their supply of arms from Iran and elsewhere. where the question is the will thing. Will you create more terrorists?

There's no really good solution to that. Why? Because the Arab states of the region don't want any Gazans. I mean, Egypt does not want any more Palestinians. Jordan is full of Palestinian, quote unquote, refugees. If the Arab Muslim nations don't want that problem, Israel has to contain it. It's not neat, but it's the best thing they can do,

given the conditions that you have more than two-thirds of the population are pro-terrorism. Well, gentlemen, we've had a great hour and a half. We've got one segment that we still haven't covered, which is what's happening on U.S. college campuses. I imagine you see that very differently. That ties into the election because of Biden and Trump and how they've responded to that.

We're going to go to locals to talk about that and answer questions from you guys, which I will be putting to both Stephen and Seb. Head on over to locals right now for the rest of this debate. The question I want to ask you is a question I can't ask you on YouTube. which is about January of the 6th and everything that happened around that. Do you believe the 2020 election was stolen? So to say that he went along with the peaceful transfer power is just a lie.

Well, they did because he left the White House. Yes, after he failed to steal the election. I sold my car in Carvana last night. Well, that's cool. No, you don't understand. It went perfectly. Real offer, down to the penny. They're picking it up tomorrow.

Nothing went wrong. So what's the problem? That is the problem. Nothing in my life goes. a smoothie. I'm waiting for the catch. Maybe there's no catch. That's exactly what a catch would want me to think. Wow, you need to relax. I need to knock on wood. Do we have wood?

Is this tablewood? I think it's laminated. Okay, yeah, that's good. That's close enough. Car selling without a catch. Sell your car today on... Carvana. Pick up fees may apply.