TRIGGERnometry - Fiery Israel-Palestine Debate with Bassem Youssef

Episode Date: April 14, 2024

Bassem Youssef is an Egyptian-American comedian and television host, often dubbed 'the Jon Stewart of the Arab world'. Bassem has been an outspoken pro-Palestine voice in recent months, and has made some high-profile appearances on Piers Morgan’s show. Check out Bassem’s website here: https://www.bassemyoussef.xyz/ Go to https://givesendgo.com and raise money for anything important to you. Check out Barro’s campaign here: https://www.givesendgo.com/barro SPONSOR: https://GETSUPERBEETS.COM Use Promo Code: TRIG to get a free 30-day supply + 15% off your first order Join our Premium Membership for early access, extended and ad-free content: https://triggernometry.supercast.com OR Support TRIGGERnometry Here: Bitcoin: bc1qm6vvhduc6s3rvy8u76sllmrfpynfv94qw8p8d5 Music by: Music by: Xentric | [e-mail] | https://www.xentricapc.com/ YouTube: @xentricapc Buy Merch Here: https://www.triggerpod.co.uk/shop/ Advertise on TRIGGERnometry: [e-mail] Join the Mailing List: https://www.triggerpod.co.uk/#mailinglist Find TRIGGERnometry on Social Media: https://twitter.com/triggerpod https://www.facebook.com/triggerpod/ https://www.instagram.com/triggerpod/ About TRIGGERnometry: Stand-up comedians Konstantin Kisin (@konstantinkisin) and Francis Foster (@francisjfoster) make sense of politics, economics, free speech, AI, drug policy and WW3 with the help of presidential advisors, renowned economists, award-winning journalists, controversial writers, leading scientists and notorious comedians. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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No surprises. That's Verizon. Best Network based on Route Metrics, Best Overall Mobile Network Performance, U.S. Second Half 2025, all rights reserved. It must provide a recent consumer mobile bill in the name of the person who gave me the deal. Additional Terms, Conditions, and Restrictions, Supply. If you were the Prime Minister of Israel on October 8th, what would you do? If I'm the Prime Minister of Israel like Netanyahu, I'm a killer, I'm a mass murderer.

I've been killing Palestinians all my life, and I've absolutely had no pushback, so I would kill. What should Israel have done in your opinion? That's all I'm asking. Not this? But why are you arguing with other people who are not here? No, no, but the argument is crazy. Just talk to me. When I tell you, not this, you tell me, so what, as if I have to come up with a solution? The Israeli governments throughout their years have always chosen.

close military conflict and they are not interested in peace. As a matter of fact, they're talking openly about the end of days. Basm, great to have you on the show. One of the reasons is we haven't talked about the Israel-Palestine situation. Enough. Nearly enough. And actually, we haven't for the reason that when October 7th happened, we had a few people on because we were in America. It was easy to access the people we wanted to talk to. And those are mostly what you would, I guess, say, is a pro-Israel perspective. And we've struggled to get people on since who are sensible and who want to present a different argument.

So it's great to have you on. And I guess the way I feel is, I think we see two main perspectives being talked about in both mainstream and actually new media as well, which is, you know, there's one side which is genocide, genocide, genocide, and the other side is, you know, October 7th, therefore Israel is allowed to do whatever it wants. And I think that's kind of not where most people are

from speaking to people here in the West. I think a lot of people feel that what they're seeing out of Gaza is horrific, absolutely horrific. And on that hand, they also feel that what they saw on October 7th was horrific, and they sort of expected that response because that's what most countries would do, is what I hear from a lot of people. What do you make of that, and how can we add some nuance to this discussion? What do you mean most countries will do? So most countries will go and kill 30,000 people.

No, most countries would kill a lot more. I mean, if you look at 9-11. So we should be happy with 30,000. I'm not saying happy. I'm saying this is what people feel would happen in response to something like October 7. Just from speaking to normal people. Whether it's right or wrong. But why are we resetting the clock at October 7th?

I'm not resetting the clock. But here's the thing, because it's either like October 7th. But what about October 2nd? What about September 15th? The whole idea of like people think that there was like a ceasefire before October 7th. That's not true. Three weeks before October 7th. Israel won Gaza three days straight.

And there was no music festivals to do that. I mean, before October 7th, there was 434 Palestinians killed in the West Bank, which is not even in Gaza. There was like 70 kids killed without October 7th. The thing is, you only see October 7th, but the fact is, like, if you're a Palestinian, what options do you have?

You throw locks, your kid, you throw rocks, and your limbs would be broken. you join armed resistance, you're going to be called a terrorist and killed. You don't do anything and you sit in your home and your home will be confiscated in England, be confiscating the West Bank. You boycott BDS and you don't have a job. So what are supposed to do? And the fact is...

But that argument plays both ways is what I'm saying to you, which is why a lot of people are kind of conflicted, which is why I don't... There's no conflict because before October 7th... Let me make the point, basically. Because I don't want to have like a big argument. I'm interested in your perspective, but I have to put the question to you that I think a lot of people would want the answer to, which is, if you were the Prime Minister of Israel on October 8th, what would you do?

You see, that's again, you're resetting the clock. You are, you are judging people what you do for their reaction. Before October 7th, there is a total of 100,000 Palestinians killed and injured. You cannot keep pushing people to the limit, and when they react violently. Okay, what happened to October 7th? No, let's accept your argument. What happened October 7th? Well, I'm going to ask you that in a second, but let's accept your argument.

For the sake of argument, I'm not saying this is what I think, but for the sake of argument, let's say the October 7th was a perfectly justified uprising on the basis of all the terrible atrocities Israel is committed. Let's say we accept that. You're the Prime Minister of Israel on the 8th of October. What would you do? Yeah, because if I'm the Prime Minister of Israel, I will do exactly what Tintiniu does because Israel has been doing more stuff than this and was getting away with it, who's getting away with murder. But that's what you would do, right? Israel just killed seven international workers from the UN. And you know what they did?

I'm sorry, you know what? It's war. I mean, mistakes happen. We're sorry, guys. Up yours. Do you not think that's true, though? Of course not, because there is a history of Israel killing international workers and UN with absolutely no consequences.

If Israel today stopped the Gaza war, you know what would happen? Israel will be applauded. Thank you so much for just kidding 30,000 people. We're so happy that you just killed those amount of people. And there would be no consequences for you. the murders and the war crimes that Israel have been doing for six months. It's crazy. You think, like, you ask me what should I do?

If I'm the prime minister of Israel like Netanyahu, I'm a killer. I'm a mass murderer. I've been killing Palestinians all my life and I've absolutely had no pushback. So I will do exactly what they're doing. I don't mean if you were Netanyahu. I mean, if you were the prime minister. If I was, I wouldn't have done the stuff that would have led to October 7. Fine, but that's not really where we are.

That's not the reality of the situation. No, the reality of the situation that you want to corner people in October 7. and you forget what happens before. I'm not trying to corner anyone. I'm saying, you just asked me if I was the Prime Minister of Israel. If I was Netanyahu, no. I would do that. If I was Basim, I wouldn't have done the stuff

that Ninteneo has done that would lead to October 7. Fine. What I'm trying to get out with you, I don't have an agenda. I'm trying to understand from a normal person's perspective who's not as informed as you are, right, I'm not as informed as you are, how to think about this issue, because I'm telling you, this is what a lot of people think. If I'm a normal person,

How would I accept that like my family would be killed, injured, and kidnapped every day before? Everybody talks about the hostages, which is terrible, of course. But you know that there's 5,000 Palestinian hostages in the Israeli prison, but we don't call them hostages. They are prisoners because they were arrested by people in uniform, because they were put in prison institutions. So we don't call them. But at the fact of fact, they are hostages. They're taken, they're kidnapped in the middle of the night from their families and they're put in the prison. and half of those 5,000 people in prison,

there is no accusation against them. If these are not hostages, what are they? We talk about trade, but we don't talk about the sexual violence that has been committed against Palestinian women for all of these years, but we just take Israel word for it. We don't talk about murder,

and we don't talk about the murder daily. Since October, in one month, after October 7, in the West Bank, 40 children were killed. If 40 children were killed here in London, the whole world will be like up there in arms. But nobody cares because they are Palestinians and their blood seems to be not.

not as equal or not as precious as Israelis. I'm not talking about your opinion. I'm talking about how the word is doing. But what I'm trying to get out with you is, you see, we're getting stuck in that same dynamic that people often have when they're having this discussion where the pro-Israel people have their points and the pro-Palestan people have that point.

Who's doing the killing, Mahabibi? Who's doing the killing? Who's doing the killing? Who's stealing the land? Who's pushing people out of their homes on every single day? Who's putting another human beings in a concentration camp conditions and bombing the shit out of them for 50 years. And then you come and talk to me about October 70s.

I'm just putting a very simple point to you, which I think is a fair point. Which is? Which is that a normal person who's looking at the situation, they agree with you in that what Israel is doing is atrocious and looks horrific. And nobody wants to, I'm a father. I don't want to see babies being bombed. It's horrific. And yet it happens.

And yet it happens. And yet it continues to happen. And it's horrible. And yet my tax money and your tax money is. You've got to let me finish the point. You are acting as if I'm some kind of hostile interview, which I'm really not. I want to get to the bottom of what you think, but I'm trying to put the mainstream, ordinary, uninformed person's perspective to you, which is where I'm coming from, right,

to try and unpack some of these arguments. So, yes, the normal person is, and I went to the pro-Palestine protests here in London several times and talk to people, and that's what they all say, you know, what we're horrified about what we're seeing. but you also have to be able to see that any country, any country, you say any country that's treated like Gaza and the West Bank would react in this way. Okay, let's accept that. But I put it to you that any country that was attacked the way Israel was attacked would also react in this way, right? So if I'm an ordinary person, I'm kind of, I don't know what to think about these two things. Is that a fair argument?

No. Tell me why. Because again, you are talking about like if that happened to us, October 7th and you forget, you forget the atrocities that have been happening that led to October 7. I don't. I don't forget. Okay, so the thing is, it's, you're really putting me in that same position. How can we react? It's like, look at what have you done before October 7th? And let's say, for example, you reacted badly. How long can Israel go in? And then we go in into the position of like, what's that proportionate response? We've been asking what's the proportionate response

since the death toll in Gaza with 3,000. Now it's 33,000. The thing is, there's a proportionate response. The thing is, there's no number that's enough. If this could go on for a year and you'll have 300,000 Palestinians killed and the world was still asking, but what would have Israel done? Because we don't ask these questions when the question still has to be asked

because whatever the background, whatever happened before, the question still has to be asked what Israel should have done. Exactly what they have done. That's what they should have done. Yeah, yeah, let's continue. Kill Gaza, kill the people

and then after they're done, let's go to the Westback and kill 300,000. Yes. Yeah, but. Because it's, I'm sorry, because if this is the kind of conversation, like, what Israel that I have done? Remember when Israel was saying like, oh, it's not us that bombed the Ahele Hospital.

It is the Hamas. Since then, they, they bombed 36 hospitals. Does that, is that okay? Hold on. You're acting as if I'm justifying anything. No, I'm not. The question, the question is very weird. What could Israel have done as if,

As if there has no other choice. No, no, no, what could? October 7th has happened, right? It's happened. What should Israel have done in your opinion? That's all I'm asking. Not this? Okay, but not this, okay, what should they have done?

Not this? That's a negative. I'm asking in a positive sense what they should have done. How should they have reacted? My answer didn't change. Not this. But that isn't... They are mergers and they are violating international law.

they are violating every single international peace of law UN resolutions. And then you're asking me, what else should they have done? I don't understand the question. No, no, no. I'm not asking what else they should have done. I'm saying if a country is attacked in this way, how should it react? Maybe they stop doing what other people to do it, so they will not be attacked in this way. Okay, so you think that the Prime Minister of Israel, in the situation he's in when X number of

his own civilians have been slaughtered, is in a position to say, okay, we'll just, stop doing whatever we're doing, we're not going to respond in any way. You think that you should do that? No, no, no, no, let's let him continue killing. I mean, you're asking, your answer, your question is like, it's like you're going in and you are nuking a whole country because you've been attacks, like, what else would I do? But hold on. What else?

But this is, I mean, look at history. Like, would you say that, um, what the Allies did in Germany in World War II? Oh, the Dresden conversation. There's not the Dresden conversation. We dropped 50 Hiroshima. as a month on Germany for a year and a half. And that's good. Who said it's good?

This is the thing. It's like this is because this is the same talking points of Israel. Look what the Allies did in Dristan. What did they're there? It's just the fact that like something horrific that happened in the past does not justify what you're doing in the future. No, I'm not saying that something horrific happened in the past justifies what we're doing in the future.

And by the way, I'm surprised about the way this conversation is going because before we started, you were like, I'm a big fan of you guys. And I really am keen to have an honest conversation. It's very inferiorating. The question when you ask people, if you're in Israel position, what you should have done? Again, you are asking me to quantify the reaction of the atrocity that's been happening all through. And what else? No.

Like, if your only choice is killing children and killing unarmed civilians and this, show me one war, one war where 80% of a place were destroyed, 50% of the victims were children, and 100% of the population were displaced, and then you tell me you don't have any other choice? I didn't say any of those things. All I'm saying to you is there is a reality of where we are, right? And whether you like it or not, whether I like it or not, I don't like it or not, I don't like it, right? But it's not going to get solved by pretending that Israel is in a position. And how could it be solved? I have no idea. That's why I'm asking you.

But you say not like this and you don't give a positive. Well, I have no idea either. But what is happening, Israel is a rogue. That's a fair answer. Israel is a war criminal. and has been getting away with murder and genocide for years and the international community and international world is letting it get away

with murder and genocide every single day and then we are left with, sorry to say, a useless question of like, what's the proportionate response? What else can I do? If it's your country, what you have done? No, you ask if you are Netanyahu, what do you have done? And I would tell you, if I was Netanyahu, and the whole world is letting me do whatever I want,

I would do it. Netanyahu, I said if you're the Prime Minister of Israel. I wouldn't have done the stuff that have left to October 7th. I sense is you're a very different person to Benjamin. Well, if I am the Prime Minister of Israel, I wouldn't have done the stuff that would have left October 7. I totally accept that. But my question...

If you're the President of the United States, if you are Tony Blair, if you're in the would you go to invade Iraq because... Absolutely not. I was on the streets protesting against him. Exactly. I didn't support the war in Afghanistan. I didn't support the war in Iraq. But 9-11, if you are in America, how could you know,

not invade Iraq. Because they had nothing to do with 9-11. That's exactly. That's exactly the answer to your question. Yes, except Hamas, which controls Gaza, had everything to do with October 7. And what about the killing is happening in the West Bank as we speak? Completely wrong. So why is he doing it?

I think the reason we're having this conversation as well is you think I'm arguing with you. No, I'm really not. My answer is not directed to you. It's directed to the narrative. But you're speaking to me. So let's speak to me, right? So your answer, I take it and correct me if I'm wrong to my question of what's the positive way forward is you don't know because it's impossible situation. Because no.

Other than Israel should stop what it's doing. No, because it's useless. I have to say it's useless because I have lost hope. That's a good answer. Let's talk about that. I have lost hope. Because you have a country that's getting away with killing children on camera in front of everybody. And everybody's like, too bad.

I don't think of any of Irons like that. Really? Have you watched Kirby, the spokesman of the White House? We say, like, we've seen Israel killing people. It's like when they're investigating. It doesn't speak for me. I'm not a fan of course. But me and you and Francis, we're not the people in charge.

The people in charge, the people in power, the people who are holding the strings, the people are really making things happen in the world, don't care. I don't think that's true either. They don't care. I think they care. They just don't know what to do like you and me. No, they don't care. They look at Palestinians as lesser group of people that it's okay to kill as many of them as possible.

There is not a single country in the world. You talk about Iraq, you're talking about, there has not a single modern warfare or old warfare where the kind of the kind of casualties we've seen happening on daily basis in front of everybody. It's happening. And nobody's doing anything about it. So that's why I lose hope. Like the thing is like, is, okay, what kind of what will be the number that will make you say, okay, that's enough? It's not a bad number. A hundred, exactly. Look, we killed half a million civilians in Germany because we felt that that was the only way to end the war. Again, that's a bad example. And we shouldn't do it because we evolved.

We as humans. We cannot say we enslaved like millions of black people and that should be the, and that's okay. But that's a different example. If we stick with a Germany example, we did have to do that. No, you didn't have. Yeah, we did. Did you have to, did you have to rape two million people, two million women? Of course not, but that's a different thing.

Why? Because destroying infrastructure. like factories and railways and... Did we need to drop to atomic bombs? In my opinion, yes. In my opinion, yes. So basically, in order to end the world... That saved life.

In order... That saved probably hundreds of thousands of lives. Absolutely. It did. Absolutely. Because Japan, even after the bombs were dropped, the Japanese military tried to stage a coup because the emperor wanted to surrender.

They were going to fight to the death. Invading Japan would have cost hundreds of thousands of lives. So this kind of argument justifies whatever damage we do to other human beings. No, not at all. So basically killing 30,000 Palestinians will save more lives. I don't, I didn't say that. But that's the argument.

No, you said what number is going to be where we say enough, as if we reach a certain civilian casualty and then we're like, stop. I'll give you the answer. There's no number. Correct. To more, if a million Palestinian killed in one day, people will not care. Because people stop caring about those people. I don't.

Because we were told that those people are animals, they're terrorists, there's Hamas or Hamas sympathizers or Hamas voters and they should be wiped out. I'm not talking about you online. I'm not talking about you. But why don't you talk to me? I know, no, no. I'm talking to you as people.

But let's talk about my opinions or what I'm putting to you, right? I don't think Palestinians are animals. I don't think they're bad people or anything like that. We're talking about the situation as it exists. And yes, you react differently for the death of Palestinians, for the death of Israelis because... Do I?

Yeah, you do. How so? Because in October 7th, which seems to be our starting point. It's not. 1,139 Israelis were killed and I don't know, 170. And I said that's wrong. Yeah, of course, of course.

But then you're asking if I was the prime minister, what I should have done. But you never ask yourself if I was Palestinian, what if I ever done? Because here's the thing. Sorry, I ask that question again. If you were Palestinian, how could I react to that daily atrocities to me?

But I already said for the sake of argument, for the sake of argument, let's accept that October 7th is a legitimate uprising. I'm not saying it's a legitimate. I know you're not. I'm not saying. I know you're not. If you're a Palestinian and you have all of your family. Do you know what for the sake of argument means? Yes. We're exploring the idea. So if you're the sake of argument, if you're a Palestinian in the position of like all of your family were killed, all of your... I'd be on the front line. Okay. I wouldn't be killing civilians. You wouldn't? No. No. But if you were a prime minister of Israel, you would kill civilians. I didn't say anything about what I would do if the prime minister would have Israel.

What I'm saying is if I was someone in Gaza whose family had been killed, I'd be very angry, obviously. I'd probably be angry. But you will have the civility not to kill civilians. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. But if you have a prime minister, I will not. Why would I kill women?

I'm the prime minister of Israel. I will be justified to act with no civility because what happened. No, but why are you arguing with other people who are not here? No, no, but the argument is crazy. Just talk to me. You're here with me. I know, but the argument is crazy. Why?

We are trying to find justification. or other ways for Israel to react differently, as if it is the only way. Can I just say, because when I tell you, when I tell you not this, so what, as if I have to come up with a solution for the murderous prime minister who's been killing people for the past six months? No, no, no, no. Look, you're interested in peace, right? Is that fair to say?

You want the killing to stop. So do I. So do most people. And that's what I said to you at the beginning. Most people want the killing to stop, and they're trying to work out in a very difficult... I mean, there's a reason it's been going on for as long as it's been going on. It's complicated, and it's difficult. No, it's not complicated.

It's not very complicated. It's a group of people who took up other people in and continued killing them. It's not that complicated. It's very obvious. Well, if it was that simple, it would have been resolved by now. No, it will not be resolved because people who are evil have the power and you cannot do anything in order to change that. I mean, they are killing you in your face and you're telling... You try. You try. Can I just say, firstly, this reminds me of my childhood.

Thank you, guys. Whose mommy and whose daddy? That's the question. Yeah, I mean, well, I don't see gender. It's 2024. Having said that, I think it's very important for people to understand, because obviously passions are very high when it comes to this subject. What is it like for the ordinary Palestinian before October 7th. What was it like? So just explained what is it like to live in that area?

What rights do they have? What rights are they being denied? Etcetera. Because I think people need to understand. So there's this kind of like image that, oh, we disengage from Gaza. We left you guys to do whatever you want. But actually you disengage and then you put a siege. There was no access to air, sea and land.

Everything has to go through something. There have been actually a time where Palestinians were put on a calorie count. So the kind of food that was admitted, the kind of... Bassem, can I just ask a question? I know this is very passionate to you. If you could just slow down slightly because people... I'm sorry. Yeah.

So basically, I know that they've been used a lot like an open air concentration camp or prison. 2 million people lived in the most concentrated, more dense area in the world. And you have no rights. They have no rights to travel. Everything has to go through another authority that controls your food, your electricity, your water, some parts of Gaza, you're only on two hours a day to get water. I mean, you can go on and on and on. There's just like, books like written. If you're living in the West Bank, your land is being taken away from you, being eaten into your land every day. Your house

could be just like settlers can go in, take your land and kick you out. To go through like a one kilometer distance, you have to go to like seven or eight checkpoints. You're, as we speak right now, there's two units in Hebron. And this is something called Yehuda Shole, who is the founder of breaking the silence. He's an ex-IDF soldier. He's like, as we speak right now, there's two units on an eight-hour shift in Hebron, that their only mission is to maintain the presence or make their presence felt, which they can go into your house, a house that intelligence tells you that there's no threat. Goes in separate men and women, ruffle the feather, go, raffle everything, break everything, go from house to house.

This is like the daily life of Palestinians. They have no humanity. They have no rights. Even if you are in the West Bank, I'm not even talking about Gaza. You are not allowed as a Palestinian to have any fertile land in area sea, which is all of the fertile land.

You as a Palestinian, your water share is one-fifth or one-sixth of a settler. You're not allowed to dig for wells. You're not allowed to dig for water. You're not allowed to actually, even if you, it's a very inhumane way. has been going like this for 75 years. And nobody's doing anything about it.

So at a certain point, and you as a Palestinian, you can, IDF soldiers can come in take you, put you in prison, put you on administrative detention for month and even years. There's something that's been in jail for 10, 15 years with absolutely no accusation. Israel is the only country in the world that tries children in front of a military court

with 99.7% conviction rate. There's nothing, that never happens. anywhere. So that is the, that is even, I didn't even scratch the service. And, and when you, when you do that on daily ways of a 75 years, at a certain point, people will crack and people will throw rocks. If you throw rocks, you and you're a child, your limbs are broken. If you are a Palestinian and you take a dagger and want to fight back, you'll be, of course, killed and you've been labeled as a terrorist. But what happens is that they are responding to the daily terrorists that has been happening for years and nobody is scary because we have already decided that those group of people

do not have the right of equal living or equal right and that's very distressing I'm I'm not at all like I don't like Hamas by the way I don't like the whole idea about Islamization of the conflict because I think that's the worst thing that like putting religion is become Islamic against Judaism that's wrong okay great because because Palestinians also there's a lot of Christians and those Christians are also the rights are taken away. Even if you're a Christian from England and you go there, people will spit on you from the Jewish side

because they think, like, you know, Christians are, like, are less than them. So it's not just like a Muslim against Judaism thing, right? So we have all of these rights taken away as human beings. And at a certain point, you will rise. At a certain point, and I talk to this about, like, it's so easy killing and oppressing people, remotely has become so easy. You're sitting behind a screen.

whether you're remote and you're flying a drone, you kill them. So, and this kind of remote, we became so, you know, at the, at a certain point, we had to have a sword and I have to put all of my force to drive into your body, right? Now it's like, pimp, and a whole block is gone. And I make this example in many other podcasts. I say, if I go and take a knife and I kill you, I'm a terrorist. But if I'm sitting in my $64 million F-16, pushing a button, dropping, an $8,000, $18,000, $18,000, a bomb on a whole blog decimating you. That's war.

Yeah. If I go in and I kidnap you, that's terrorism. But I go in with my units and I kidnap 100 people per day and put them in my prisons and have legal background because of my course, help me and put you in a prison. That's not kidnapping. That's imprisonment. I'm really glad you made the point about Islam and Judaism. I have family who come from the Middle East. My grandfather was Lebanese. He was Lebanese Christian. And this conflict is much more complex and people who boil it down to Islam versus Judaism.

It's quite a facile way of explaining what is actually a very serious, complicated conflict. So that is the situation for the average Palestinian. And as we've said, we've only barely scratched the surface. Now, what role does the government in Gaza play? Something like Hamas. How much control do they have? how much, how do they rule that particular area? Is it a democracy, all of these things?

No, it's not. I mean, like, this is like a group of people who are popular. By the way, I apologize for if of my reaction was a little bit over the top. No, but, Bassem, just on that, the only thing to, I hope we can talk better on is I'm really trying to understand your perspective. I'm not trying to, like, drive talking points or anything like that. So maybe when we talk more later, I hope we can do it in that spirit. You don't need to apologize. No, but I think the reason I reacted, I have to understand,

because I've been hearing these talking about, what else can we do? But they're not talking points from me. And I have more questions for it. But here's the thing. I mean, I don't want to go to the history over there, but like when this is an image that happened, there was elections. It was a free election. Hamas took 53% of the vote, not even the vast majority.

When that happened, there was like a boycott and then Israel put them under siege without any bullet being shot. And the story is, the story that has been put into people might, we disengage, they elected Hamas, they killed Fatah, the other Palestinian authority and they started throwing rocks at us. That did not happen. There was like a whole 18 months between the election and the stoppage of ceasefire. And in that area, Israel went in and killed the head of the security forces in Palazis. time. So Hamas retaliated and kidnapped Jalat Shalit. And then there was no more ceasefire. And then Israel attacked Gaza. So the whole idea about like we let them go, they voted Hamas and they tried to attack us. That's not the truth. Now there is a local authority which is Hamas,

which is of course like they're trying to govern Gaza, but how can you govern a place where you don't have any access to the outside world when you're on the siege, right? And yeah, and if you put people with their backs to the wall, they will have resistance and their resistance, you'll not like it because it's resistance. It could be about what you call it Islamic, you call it terrorists, you call it jihad, you call it whatever. If you, if a foreign country came in London today,

came in England and occupied you. We'd probably roll over, mate. No, there will people that will be militarized and they will use religion and they will have Jesus, and they will have the cross, because people but when people pushed into the world they would be radicalized

Yes, of course right So you cannot just push people into that situation And then we talk about Hamas right Netanyahu In 2019 there was a recording

of him bragging about financing Hamas He was talking about that openly People talk about like how Palestinians were given many opportunities And they gladed away And yet you have Netanyahu

On record saying that he has personally sabotaged The Oslo Accords So you have all of these in front of you You have all of these people taking like, we're not going to have two-state solution. Palestinians don't have the right to exist. Palestinians don't have the right to have a state.

And then you're talking about the reaction, and then you focus on that. So every time you tell me Hamas, I will tell you, Nathan, yeah. Every time you tell me October 7th, I'll tell you what happened before. Every time to tell me what should we do now, it's like, I don't know because you have made this happen. You know, like, remember you've marched against the war in Iraq. How did that work for us? How did that work for the, is the world saver after all of the trillions of dollars being said? all of the British soldiers and the American soldiers that were killed,

all of the people who killed in Afghanistan instead, did that actually work? Iraq didn't attack us is the difference. You have to accept that it's a different conflict, right? Absolutely. But again, you went in and you made an excuse, the WMDs that never existed. Agreed. Yeah, right, yeah.

And then you are now making other excuses. And you're making other excuses to dissimate that. If even if Hamas attacked you, it does not, it does. not justify killing all of those people, disseminating a whole region, a whole city, a whole place. I don't think anyone feels that that's,

well, no, I'm sure there are some people who feel that, but as I said, I think when we started the conversation, I think most people are horrified to what's happening. Yeah, but rightly so. But here's the thing. There is a certain narrative that stayed in people's mind that made them justify what happens. First of all,

the number of people that dead were October 7. And yet, nobody's talking about the Hannibal directive and how the Israeli forces that were actively involved in killing many of the hostages. And this is my problem about how the media covers this. Do you have Israeli channels and media like artists and Israel Today and Channel 12 who talked openly about the choice of the usage of the Hannibal directive that have inflated the number of casualties from the Israeli side

because their own troops were bombing or shooting at the kapoorz? So what do you think is the... Let me finish this. And yet, the Western media went with all of the killing that happened October 7th, and nobody talked about the Israeli reports. You talk about the gang rape, and then the Israeli report and the decaditated babies, and the Israeli reports like that didn't happen. And yet the Western media did not even translate these reports.

And yet these stories were the reason that people accepted the massive killing of Palestinians because, like, oh, look at what happened. They raped people. They decapitated babies. They killed all of those people. But if you knew these information, you said, wait a minute, this is truly a disproportionate response.

Yeah. What all I'm asking, all I was going to ask you is to flesh out what you think happened on October 7th. Because when I went and spoke to protesters, there was a whole range of opinion.

Some people said it never happened. Some people said it's a full flag. No, no, of course they happened. And then you were saying some details didn't happen. So I can tell you. How many people do you think were killed? According to the Israeli reports, the official Israeli reports, the papers that were submitted even to International Court of Justice,

1,129 Israelis were killed, 1,129. Out of those, 735 for civilians, and the rest were military and police. So, 735 civilians. Babies, one baby were killed under the age of one year, which is Meela Cohen, 10-month-old, no-decapputation, a total of 49 children. that were killed under the age of 49, not 40 decapitated babies.

There was no gang rape. Of course there might be like sexual violence, but like the whole idea about systemic that did not happen, again, according to the Israeli papers that were submitted to the International Court. So now we have the truth. 735 civilians. I don't know, 17,200.

I don't know how many people were kidnapped. Now, if you look at these numbers now, does this justify 30,000 people killed? No. but you created like this shock value at the beginning. Rape people, dechabitated babies, cutting people out of a couple of babies out of their wombs.

That didn't happen. Okay. Well, I'm relieved it didn't happen because it sounded. And again, that doesn't mean that what happened is good. No, no. It doesn't mean that that happened is acceptable. But what I'm saying, that when you go in the people with an outrageous story.

Yeah, yeah, no, of course. You are making, you are priming people to accept what will happen next. Interesting. Let me just ask one point in this, because you mentioned earlier, you know, what would happen if London was invaded by a foreign country? What would happen if London was invaded by the Irish? The Irish have reasons to be angry with England, right? And they had

murdered 749, did you say, innocent civilians, and didn't decapitate but killed a baby. You know, if you say people with their back against the wall are going to react, then how are people going to react in that situation? By the way, my example that I said about London, you know, what, like a foreign country come in and disseminated country, I would be here, London or England are actually the position of the Palestinians. What I'm saying is if you come in and you have your whole country like invaded and your whole

military is disseminated and you have nothing, you will have resistance forces that will be radicalized. I understand. So that was my use. But my argument is that like if London was attack now and London's still powerful and can retaliate. Yes. Yes. So I guess what I'm saying is

if during the IRA and the troubles in Ireland where we did have terrorism in this country, They had launched an invasion into northern England and slaughtered 750. But actually, it would have to be, what's the population of Israel, about 10 million? So it would have to be six times that. So they slaughtered over 3,000 people, 3.5,000 people, innocent people, didn't decapitate them. Let's say there was no gang rape. How do you think England would react?

Well, I don't know. But the thing is, using these arguments, I think it's a distraction to what's happening right now. Because basically what we're saying, I think these are all ways to distract the conversation about like, let's talk about what England would say and let's forget the killing that's happening on the day. No, no, no, no, no. No, it's precisely because I care about the killing of innocent people now that I think we have a responsibility to try and think about how these intertwined and intertangled mutual claims of violence and whatever get untangled. That's what I'm saying, right? So I think the reality of why we're having this argument is I'm interested in trying to find out how this gets sorted out. But I will answer your question about what if the RAA or whatever England comes in and kill 3,000 people are right? You're missing something. Did actually England do to Ireland what Israel is it to Palestinians for 75 years?

Yes. Yes. For 75 years. I would bet I would bet my life. You should speak to some life. That England did not for 75 years kill. 100,000 Irish people. You should speak to some Irish people.

No, no, in the 20th century. Did they kill 100,000 people in the 20th century? Probably not, but that doesn't mean that the Irish people didn't have very strong reasons to feel. Some people felt that their terrorism was justified. Of course, there'll be lots of people that disagree. Anyway, I guess the question in terms of moving forward, like how do you move forward is what would you like...

So let's say, again, for the sake of argument, Israel stops bombing, pulls out, What would you like to see happen from there? Because you talked about the plight of the people in Gaza and in the West Bank. Let's say that all of that ends. And you talked about land. And this is one of the things I always find interesting because obviously this is where there's such a big conflict because two peoples are making a claim to the same land.

What should happen in terms of like when you say give back the land, which bit of land? Well, first of all, if the worst state, stops today, the first thing we knew, do we need to have Israeli officials being, you know, arrested and put to be tried for their war crimes. Okay, let's say that happens. Okay. And then let's talk about the bigger picture. Right.

Okay. Let's talk about the bigger picture. Like, what's the, what, in your opinion, what is the, what's the origin of the conflict? Why is it problem? This is why I said at the beginning. I'm asking questions from the point of view of an uninformed person because I'm uninformed. Okay.

So you're going to have to tell us what you think is the solution. Well, a shorter... For example, on Ukraine, I think I know about it. I'm from the area. It's something I've spoken to a lot of very well-knowledgeable people about. I've read lots of books about it. I can tell you what the solution is for Ukraine, the war on Ukraine. And I said it on day one of the conflict.

I said how it would end, which is probably how it will end. Right. So what happened if Ukrainian refugees fled from Ukraine came in here and claimed 20% of the land of England? Would you give it to them? Probably not. No. That's exactly what happened after the Holocaust. You have people coming from Europe. Okay. Coming to Palestine. So how does this get solved now?

No, no. To get solved, we need to talk about the orange. You have people coming in. 1947 there was the partition. Of course, the Palestinians said, like, why are we giving 55% of our land to 30% of the people that 20 years ago? They were not even in that country. So of course, they said no. So Israel said, like, well, no, we're keeping it. So they had the war. And of course, Israel won. And now he says, like, well, you lost it. have any claim for it now and then after 1948 Israel took 78% of the land leaving only 22% for the Palestinians with that's 67 all of that was gone and now Israel comes like well we gave you these these these deals and he didn't say it but it was already a horrible deal so you can't you can't tell me like no no I'm just telling you like those Ukrainians who wanted 20%

you didn't want to give them they ended up taking 70% of England and it's like well we we told you we want only 20 now we're going to take 70 No, but I cannot accept it. So the whole idea about plans, and now it's become, and I have to be a, I cannot really kick out like nine million Israelis who've been there. But that's why I'm asking.

It's already there. It's already there. But at a certain point, the Palestinian authority accepted 22%, which is the Oslo Accord. And even that was thus sabotaged by Israel. So you are basically in a position where the Palestinians have to,

they are pushed into accepting, really bad deals time after time after time again. And even that deals are not even honored by the Israelis. Because they're on paper the Israeli should not, the Israel should not take the West back. And yet the West Bank is being disseminated into little Gaza's. They are being disseminated by the illegal settlements that has been deemed illegal. But everybody, including the British government, including the American government, and yet the Israelis are doing it anyways. So basically, you are put in a position where whatever solution we can come up with, it's not going to What you would like to do is go to the settlement that was agreed in Oslo Accords.

I mean, that's a starting point. And what was what was what did Israel and and Gaza and the West Bank look like under those agreements? Well, under those agreements, I guess, again, I'm not an expert like the whole of Gaza and they're going to be like a land swap from inside Israel. And then the West Bank should there was like even on the table that was like the Palestinian will take 90% of the present West Bank, which is now that's not the need the example because the West Bank has been eaten up by all of the settlements. So that was the Oslo Accords. But then you have Netanyahu on record. It was like, well, you know, I could

claim any part of the West Bank as a military facility and I can take it. So I have effectively sabotaged the Oslo Accord. So that's what you'd like to go to as a solution. Again, but that is me and I'm not a Palestinian, but I say that at least a starting point. But you have bigger points that I have absolutely no idea how to solve. Like for example, the right return. You have to remember... What do you mean by the right to return? There are seven million Palestinians outside the land of Palestine that's been pushed and have been refugees all over the place.

You have 2.5 million of them in Jordan. You have half a million in Lebanon, half a million in Syria. You have like all over the place. Those people, their land is there. And under no circumstances, Israel is accepting that those people that come back. And I don't know how to solve it because Israel, of course, will not accept the abduction of seven million Palestinians. And of course, because that will change the demographic.

So I'm telling you, you're asking me about the solution, and I'm telling you, I can tell you, I can come with whatever solution, but it will not work. Because there is Obama in his book, he said, the problem of the Palestinian-Israeli conflict is that one part is so strong and the other part have nothing. One part have all of the support of the world and the other part has nothing. So even in communique, if you have all of this power, why would you give up any of the stuff that you have earned, right? I have, I pose no threat to you. All of my, my, my, my, my power will not even leave a dent in, in yours. So why would you give up anything? Because I would

suggest that the reason they would give up something, Basim, is because it doesn't matter if you're winning a war. You are still a population under war. You were still suffering. You're, you were still under direct threat, no country wants to be at war permanently. So it is in the Israelis' interests, I would argue, to come to some kind of equitable solution. However, do you see what I'm saying? I know, but like this is the logic. Yeah. This is like how normal people talk. There is a there is a book by an Israeli author. I can't remember he said like in the in the in, I can't remember the book I'll remember. It's an Israeli author and he talked about

like actually Israeli society know nothing but war. For all, for 75 years there's been, war is the only thing that's been winning them. They're getting away with stuff that nobody is actually pulling them accountable for. So for them it is winning. It's just going into continuous conflict and if that has to come at the expense

of some people feeling unsafe, so be it. But the fact is you just like a couple two ways, totally unprovoked. Israel bombed the Iranian embassy. in Syria. That's an act of war. That's an act of war. They are dragging Iran into it for absolutely no reason. They are dragging other people to war as if they are telling people, fight me, fight me, fight me. And I know it sounds ridiculous and sounds crazy, but that's what's happening. Give me another explanation for this. I guess their explanation would be that Israel backed Hamas

into attacking. Iran. Iran, no, Iran. Interesting slip of the time. So, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, You see, with that logic, with that logic, with that logic, American embassies and British embassy all over the world are not saved because they are backing Israel and all that war. You see how that logic can create, go into a like destructive result? No, but you said give me another explanation. I know, but the explanation doesn't mean it makes any sense. You understand?

I understand where you're coming from. But that explanation is very destructive. It's very, it's very worrying. Because now you're dragging. So what else? You're going to go and go. and hit China, Chinese embassies and Russian embassies, you want to drag people into war?

It's very dangerous. It's very dangerous. And the fact that you think, like, oh, because I want peace for my people, it doesn't seem to work for them. Because look at the history of the Arab-Palestin, Arab-Israel conflict. Not a single time that Israel gave a plan unless it because of, like, they had to lose it for war.

1973, they gave back Sinai because the Egyptians crossed the canal and went into war. The Oslo Accord, it happened because of the Intifada. Then 2006, it disengaging because they were having too many losses in their ranks. They withdrawal from Lebanon because Hezbollah, like, it was like too much of, too many casualties from the Israelis. Israelis don't understand anything other than the language of power. And they have never given land out of peace and out of the goodness of their heart. So they're always in a continuous conflict.

And they're pushing the world into that conflict. And it is just like, it is very disturbing. But you say the Israelis, it's really important that we also separate the Israelis from the Israeli government because there's a lot of people in Israel who disagree vehemently with Netanyahu and his actions and his policies. This is a very interesting point because when you say this, why do I don't, I hear that distinction when we talk to about Gaza? No, no, no, no, I'm not talking about you. But I'm not, we've got to talk to us. I'm not talking about you.

Because this is very exact because when you talk about Gaza, it's like, oh, because they have elected Hamas. I'm not talking about you. I'm not talking about you. Again, I'm just, for the viewers, I'm making this kind of thing. Even though the majority of Palestinians support Hamas, there's still a massive difference between Palestinians and Hamas. And even though the massive, like, the majority in Israel,

actually, they go, they have Israelis preventing aid trucks from going together and they're like happy about you have you have Israelis in tic-talk making fun of by Palestinians killing you have Palestinians like in the flag day openly telling Palestinians that you're going to be killed so whatever okay the Israeli government so the Israeli government the Israeli government has been cooking for the war I think this is an important point Bassam and I'll explain why some follow the noise Bloomberg follows the money because behind every headline is a bottom line Whether it's the funds fueling AI or crypto's trillion dollar swings, there's a money side to every story.

And when you see the money side, you understand what others miss. Get the money side of the story. Subscribe now at Bloomberg.com. There's people on the other side of the argument who would say pro-Palestine supporters, and I've had arguments with them, oh, they're pro-Hamas, you know, they're Islamic fundamentalists, Look at them. You can see these clips of people chanting for jihad and whatever else. And I go, that is a very, very small percentage of the people. I think what's really important to detoxify the conversation, Bassem, is to say there are governments who are acting in this particular way. There are supporters of those governments. But that doesn't mean that necessarily all of the people

in that area support the governments or those actions. Who has the power? The government, of course. I mean, all of these Palestinians and chanting, no matter how bad is the chanting, which I don't agree with, they're just the people in the street chanting, waving flags. None of them has weapons. None of them goes in with a military arson that is supported by the biggest military answer in the world and they go in.

So the comparison doesn't make sense, right? The comparison between someone who has all of the power, all of their arms, all of the weapons, and we're just people like shouting in the street or like writing comments on Facebook. So that's one thing. But anyways, I will go with you. The Israeli government, the Israeli government throughout their years, have always chosen force. I have all chosen military conflict,

and they are not interested in peace. As a matter of fact, they're talking openly about the end of days, which is something I want to talk about, which is something that actually bothers me. I come from the United States now, and there is like a documentary on the internet called Praying for Armageddon. It is the most disturbing document I've ever seen. It's done by Norwegian director, and so on YouTube right now.

And they're talking about how in the American government, you have politicians, senators, and congresspeople talking about openly about the end of days, about the rapture of the second coming of Jesus. And on the other side, you have the Israelis flying in five perfect red hafers, red cows, because on the 10th of April, they're going to sacrifice one of their cows, because that is actually going to be the signifying the building of the third temple. And you know what that means? Like a whole, if they're going to demolish the al-Axamos can build a third temple,

that's going to be very detrimental to the world. Now we have people asking for the second time. Can I just stop you because I didn't understand what you said there about the third temple. Could you just explain that? So the Israelis believe that there's the third temple should be built because there was two temples that were destroyed. One by the Babylon's and one by the Romans. And now this is basically the third temple. And they claim that the third temple is under the Iqsa Mosque, which is the mosque of the rock or the dome of rock,

which is a holy site for the Muslims. Okay, and where is this place? In Jerusalem. This is in Jerusalem, the holy city. Right, okay. So basically they claim that they need to demolish that the mosque and build a third temple. And they have been in search for the red hafers,

which is perfect cows, red cows. I'm not making this up, you can look it up. There's something called the Temple Institute in Jerusalem and supported by the government. And they have flown five perfect cows from Texas a year and a half ago for $500,000 and now they are preparing them to being sacrificed when they turn three years old in the 10th of April.

You can look it up, it's there on the internet. And they are going, when that happens, they're going to burn it, have the ashes, put it in the water, and whoever take a bath with this water is a purified Jew and they can build now the third temple. Now, why am I saying all of this? Because in the other side,

you have people, someone like John Hagi, who is the founder of Christian United for Israel. Each year they have $7 billion annual budget to affect politicians in Congress in order to support Israel. And John Hagee has himself has paid $80 million for Israel, not, of course, his money, that's his money for his congregation. And all of that, they are talking about the second coming of Jesus,

the rapture, the Armageddon. And it is crazy because the Christians think that when the second coming of Jesus come, all of the Jews will either be killed or convert. And the Jews believe when the Messiah comes, everybody will be enslaved by the Jews. And all of them is going for the Armageddon and the end of days. And you know why is this so scary?

Because me as a Muslim, I've been always told that my religion is violent. You're talking about end of days. You're talking about jihadists. You're talking about all of these crazy stuff. And now the modern world, the Western world, is led by a superpower whose politician believe in all of these biblical revelations of the end.

end of days and it is scary. Everyone should be worried about that. I know that sounds like a conspiracy theories but I'm not. These are like people in government talk openly about this. And you have now that they have all of this preparation of what's happening in like in, I don't know, a week from now. And people are talking actively about like pushing the water over the brink for an end of days war and it's very scary. But it's not going to happen. I mean, by the time this interview goes out, April 10th would have come and gone and we're still going to be here. April 10th is not going to be the end. It is going to be the beginning of events that have been talking about openly everywhere. And I know that I sound like a conspiracy theorist right now, but you have

to watch these documentaries and you have to watch these politicians talking openly about that. And it is, it's not something to be taken lightly or be making fun of because if you have people talking about openly, like, okay, remember when we were criticized ISIS and Qaeda, how they're bringing a religious scripture into politics? Yeah, the theocracies, yeah. And you have now, De Thiniyahu talking openly about the Amalik, and talking openly about the Amalik is the people that were there before in the Biblicalan day, and they have all of the right to kill their children, their wives, everybody from the Amalik, it's fine, they're justified, and when you use that in a political context, that is scary. It's like having the

the president of Egypt or the king of Saudi Arabia or the king of Jordan talking ISIS rhetoric. That's going to be scary, correct? But now you have the leaders in Israel talking openly about this scary rhetoric and nobody is flinching, nobody is talking about anything. Nobody is telling this is dangerous. You understand what I mean? Well, I find this a very depressing conversation because it just makes me think that, I know you disagree, but it just makes me feel that this is really unsolving.

because, you know, I talk to people in Israel or people who've been to Israel recently, there's no appetite for a two-state solution with people who used to be for a two-state solution. And in Gaza, I imagine there's no appetite for a two-state solution either, right? And Hamas have said they'll do October 7th again. So it just feels to me like it's just going to go on and on

and it's going to get worse. I know, but like you always have to think about who has the power. The one who has the power, want to have all the solution or the one who has the way out of it. The power is a difficult. thing in the modern world because also I feel like Israel is losing the PR war. It's winning the war on the ground.

I'm sure you think that. But what I'm saying is what you mean by power will change depending on the circumstances. So Israel has the military power to dominate that situation. But if the entire world pulls back its support for Israel, it will no longer have the power. And so that's kind of, I think, where we are. It's very difficult to tell ultimately how this is going to go. But we're, What I sense is, certainly from this conversation is, there's not a solution inside. Israel possesses more than military power. Military power is just a byproduct of the real power that they have. And I'm also talking now as an American citizen.

I'm someone who, like many Americans who have to deal with taxes, the IRS, we have to pay our taxes. And when we see hundreds of millions of dollars that go out every year to Israel tax exempt through charity works to help to build the illegal settings we just talked about. There's $200 million from tax exempt money, that's when that is power. When you have Christian Zionists in American government

talking openly about supporting Israel, that is power. And when most of those people are having very questionable motives, you actually should worry about the Jews more than anything. Because many of those people who support Israel, they hate the Jews. They are openly anti-Semitic, but they support Israel. You see that it's an oxymoron, correct? Yes.

It's very weird. Like, for example, Robert Spencer, he is the founder of outright in America. His people went in Jacksonville and said, like, Jews will not replace us. And yet he is applauding Israel for the ethnic cleansing of doing Israel, and he said, like, Europe should do the same. When you have someone like Elise Stefaniac, who was a congresswoman or a senator or whatever, she was very famous for grilling all of the Ivy League presidents about anti-semitism, anti-semitism, and yet she openly support Eric Paladino, who said openly that Hitler is the kind of leader that we need nowadays.

What is he, is he the hypocrisy? Most of those people who talk about like, supporting Israel, they are anti-Semitic. It is crazy. And it doesn't make any sense. And the fact, basically, you've seen people who are pushing for our. like a military force because that serves their what they think about what the end of days

will be about like the second coming we need to support Israel but they don't care about the Jews you see you see how we are being being ruled and pushed by crazy people in power it's more when I say people in power it's not about military force it's much more than this it's when you have something called

the Friends of the IDF this is the biggest charity organization This is in America. Each year they raise somewhere between $60 and $100 million for veterans of the IDF. These are American people, American artists, American actors. I wonder how much money is being given to American veterans. This is the kind of support that's so the power is not really military. The military is a by-pire product of all of that.

But I would say, Basin, that these fundraising efforts are going to become more and more difficult, the more more that people see the suffering, the casualties, the misery that is created, because it becomes harder and harder to justify. May I disagree with you? Well, absolutely. A lot of people do. The last six months, it has been the highest donation that's ever been made by these operations working inside of America for Israel.

Each year it's been doing like 50 to 60 million. The IDF this year, like, raised $100 million. Because they work on fear, because they don't speak to me and you. about the people who are concerned about that part of the place, and they are actually believed that there is an existential threat, so they raise more money. Zaka, which is a rescue group from Israel, these are the group that behind all of the decapital babies, they raise $50 million, out of fear more green. So no, they are raising more and more and more money. So as an American, as someone who belongs to that country, I'm concerned about that kind of money. I'll give you an

example of how power is not just military. You have AIPAC. Before in 2021, they didn't involve and really paying people running for office. They just worked with already elected officials. After 221, they have bragging about pushing people into American politics. You have bragging about their 40 Democrats winning in their primaries. They are actually punishing people who don't support Israel. They have put $4 million for the opponent of Andy Living, who's a Jew running for Michigan Congress seat.

Just because he didn't support him. Israel and he's a Jew. So this whole power is much more than military. It is the kind of support that they have no matter whatever they do. All right, Basim, it's been great. I'm glad we managed to have a more constructive conversation as we went on. And I'm sorry again for the... You don't need to be sorry. I really appreciate that we were able to work through that. And actually, I think it's good for people to see that I think we all come to things with certain expectations and talking points and what other people are going to say. And by the way, you know, when the Ukraine war happened, I found it very personally difficult as well.

And I would go into conversations with that kind of attitude as well. And so I understand it. And I don't take it personally. I'm glad you were on. I'm very grateful you came on. You're busy guy. We'll continue the conversation with questions from our supporters on locals. But before we do, we always ask the same question.

Well, so one thing we're not talking about that we really should be. The one thing that we should not be, though. That we're not talking about. Not that we're not processing. We should be asking that, that's right? Yeah, what shouldn't we be talking about? It's like a free hit. Like what is the world not talking about that it should be?

Or what should we be talking about more that we're not? Right now? Yeah. Oh, it's always in the bag. I think it's the sort of all evil, money in politics. I think that's the biggest thing. That's the biggest title of Western democracy. If you are, go out into, I don't know how it is in England.

Maybe I feel it more in the English. United States. But if you go out and you vote for all of those representatives and then at the end of the day, they end up not following you the person who gave the vote, which is the crux of any Western democracy, but they go after they follow the special interests lobbies. And that shapes their decision. That's a big danger. I didn't vote for pharmaceutical company over the military industry. I didn't vote for the NRA. I didn't vote for AIPAC. I didn't vote for those people. But yet, my representatives is actually creating legislation that serve those people, don't the voter. That is the biggest thing that we should be talking about every single day because if that is the promise of the Western world to the rest of the world, which is democracy, this has been undermined by the money that is being corrupting this kind of election operation, whatever it is.

Basim, the bells of Westminster, Sarabi, are ringing to say enough. So we will head on over to locals, head on over there, join us, because we'll ask Bassem your questions, and will probably continue. the debate. It seems to me that Gaza itself, not the West Bank, but Gaza, would be better served as an autonomous region of a larger power, i.e. Egypt. Do you think that's an acceptable solution to the current crisis? And if yes, do you think the Palestinian people would accept it?