TRIGGERnometry - "How I Got Cancelled" - Andrew Lawrence

Episode Date: June 3, 2020

Andrew Lawrence is a comedian known for his work in stand-up, radio and television.  Support TRIGGERnometry: Paypal: https://bit.ly/2Tnz8yq https://www.subscribestar.com/triggernometry https://www.patreon.com/triggerpod Find TRIGGERnometry on Social Media:  https://twitter.com/triggerpod https://www.facebook.com/triggerpod https://www.instagram.com/triggerpod About TRIGGERnometry:  Stand-up comedians Konstantin Kisin (@konstantinkisin) and Francis Foster (@failinghuman) make sense of politics, economics, free speech, AI, drug policy and WW3 with the help of presidential advisors, renowned economists, award-winning journalists, controversial writers, leading scientists and notorious comedians. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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See you on the roof. Hello, and welcome to Trigonometry. I'm Francis Foster. I'm Constantine Kissen. And this is a show for you, if you want, honest conversations with fascinating guests. Our brilliant guest this week is a wonderful comedian, Andrew Lawrence. Welcome to Trigonometry. Oh, thanks for having me on here.

It's great to have you on. It's the best review I've had for a while. I should be a Guardian journalist. Just to give you one good review. So anyway. One decent comedy journalist. Yes. It will be a long time before that happens.

I'm afraid. That one's for you, Steve. Yes. Steve, no. What's his face? Bennett. Brian. Brian.

Brian Logan. Oh, Brian. They're all the same. Yeah. Anyway, they're all the same. All these white men. The racism has started already. Perfect.

All right. What we wanted to talk to you about is the sense I get from you, there's, you want things to be fair and meritocratic. Well, this is what. Throughout your career, you felt like that wasn't happening. And there was a particular moment, I think, where all that came to. into a head for you. Tell us about that.

I think, yeah, you can get to certain places. There was an element of meritocracy to it. I was certainly very naive, and it is very naive to think that, you know, it's a business. And I didn't think it would work on merit, but that's all I had. Well, if I work hard, if I work hard, I'll get there. If I'm working hard than everyone else, and I'm better than everyone else, more talented than everyone else, getting a bigger reaction on. more laughs on the night than everyone else, which is the only way it gauge these things,

then I'll make some sort of progress. And the only progress I really wanted to make was to have some sort of quality of life financially and do my own touring shows. I wanted to play to my own audiences in sort of art centre venues, and I achieved that. And I still do that. So I achieved what I wanted to do, but I became disillusioned because I thought it was a more kind of, morally, that it was a better industry than it was, and a more, that there were values there, because it certainly, there is a face to the comedy industry, there is a front to it that, especially now, that there's something ethical going on, that these are good. people, which is not the case. It's like many other businesses.

There's a lot of nastiness, a lot of corruption going on. And you expect that and you just try your best, you work hard and you see what happens. But yeah, I certainly got disillusioned. But I did a show in the summer of 2014 at the Edinburgh Fringe, by which time I'd parted company with the big powerful agents that I'd been signed with and I was now with a smaller, small independent agents because I knew I'd sort of, I'd sort of been chewed up and spat out. I knew I'd had my run.

I'd had my run and now they were moving on and sort of leaving me behind and it was someone, other people's turn. It was the next thing was coming through and people were bored of me now. And that was all right as long as I was making a living. so I'm the smaller more independent agent I went up to Edinburgh with them and a really good Edinburgh

really well received show predominantly kind of five stars and four stars and then a few quite nasty reviews towards the end of the festival quite political reviews

the show I did was called Reasons to Kill Yourself I saw it was a great show and the first the 40 probably the first 40, 45 minutes of the show was just gag, gag, gag about

about being quite miserable and quite depressed naturally as a person and about death as well. And then... I never would have figured you for that kind of person. Then the last 15 minutes of the show was

I I stopped doing the gag, gag, gag every 22nd and it became a lot a longer form bit for the last 15 minutes which allowed me to kind of talk about my experience in stand-up comedy and how I've been quite naive and I'd given a lot more of myself and sacrificed a lot more than I should have, thinking that there was the element of merit would see me through, and that it hadn't worked out. And that's, you know, a side effect of that was the relationship I'd been in with someone.

I'd lived with her for nine years. And she had also started out in comedy the same time as me. And she'd won a Channel 4 writing competition. and they'd done nothing for nothing and she'd had nine years of misery and no income nothing and it's sort of you know they ruined her life really because you know this this guy running channel 4 we'll have this new comedy writing initiative and it's a national thing we'll do it but then we will just once it's done it'll be good for me it'll be good for my career because I've done this thing but whoever wins we just won't care about it.

then we'll brush them under the carpet. But so that relationship came to an end. And I was, I was, I was, uh, I was, uh, I sort of angry for her. And I was, um, I was quite sort of feeling sorry for myself. And it was a, it, it, it was a powerful show, I think. It was very, very funny for those 40, 40, 45 minutes. And then that last 10, 15, um, I felt like I was saying what I wanted to say. But also, what I, what I, was,

I felt a lot of other comics and a lot of people coming into the industry. I wanted them to hear before they made the sacrifices and commitments that I had made, I suppose. So it went very well, and the Edinburgh Friends, nothing came of it because I was done. I've had my run, and it didn't matter how well I did up there. I was sort of, you know, I was yesterday's news and I've been chewed up and spout and that's fine because I was still doing one I was still on tour and

October that year I posted and I was sort of starting to post more on Facebook and Twitter than I had previously You can see where this is going if you don't understand the storage

I was going to say that's always a good idea as I have found because so many of the people coming to see me of course they're following me on social media you, whatever if I've got, whatever it is, 20,000 on Twitter or whatever. No, no, well, I don't know what I've got.

But there's a lot of people that buy tickets and try to be funny all the time and try and engage with those people on social media. And that's what I was doing all the time. And one post that I put on Facebook got picked up by certain people within the comedy industry. quite successful people within the comedy industry who were really pissed off of what I'd said

and sort of and decided they were going to go on a bit of a run with it What did you say Andrew? Because I wasn't, as I said, I wasn't a comic at the time

so I didn't follow it. Well, there were three strands to it. The first, I think, it was about how panel shows there have been too many cheap and easy jokes about UKIP on panel shows and that

I felt like it was out of touch I felt like this was 2014 before we'd have a referendum on Brexit I felt like it was out of touch I felt that this is why I put in the post that actually UKIP were resonating with a lot of people and I think comedians are a little bit in a bubble

and they hadn't That's a mild understatement They were sort of alienating people by not realizing that. And I said that people, also people were getting on those panel shows, not based on merit, but based on the fact they were ticking boxes, equality and diversity boxes, which is true and remains true. it's a primary it's a primary reason for people being booked for comedy panel shows and for stand-up shows

on the BBC and on Channel 4 and the third strand of the post was that following on from saying a lot of people resonated with UKIP because a lot of people were quite upset about in recent years there have been a math uncontrolled level of immigration, which

would put enormous strain on public services, on housing. And it had been a cynical thing. It had been something that had been done to push a lot of unskilled labour into the job market. So wages for the poorest, lowest pay people could be kept artificially low because there were such a those jobs and zero hours contracts could be rolled out and those are the three strengths of the post but of course within that there's a lot within that that you can use if you want to if you want to go for someone if you want to attack someone there's a lot in there you can use to say oh you're this you're

that this is this is you know this is you're saying that but that's but what you mean is this and and And this was right at the start of where that became a regular occurrence on social media, on Facebook and Twitter, that there'd be these sort of mass kind of pylons where people would go for someone who had expressed a viewpoint that they didn't agree with and sort of manipulate what they had said out of all proportion and try to smear in. discredit them and it became I think that was at the start of that and of course it happened to so many so many people but it was a shock, an enormous shock in comedy because it was right at the start

of that. Well you kind of got cancelled before that was like the cool thing to happen to you know what I mean? Yeah I think you're a trailblazer I don't it's difficult because to know

the extent and there is an extent to which I was cancelled there is an extent to which after I put that post up, it affected me workwise. Definitely, I lost a lot of work because of that post. I lost a lot of work because of that. At the same time, I can't say that the... I don't think it cost me any sort of, let's say, TV work. or further work.

I had a sitcom in development and I carried out and went through with the BBC Radio for, but I don't think it cost me any work in broadcasting because the parameters had changed there and they wanted people. There was an equality and diversity agenda, rightly or wrongly, I don't care. But that's how it is. They wanted people who were ticking certain boxes

and ability or comedic ability was secondary to that, to that political agenda. and so I was out of the door already because of that. So putting that post up, you know, wasn't going to affect that. It certainly, I was just out on tour at that point. I wasn't doing club gigs because I didn't need to. I was just touring, but there were certainly venues that wouldn't book me,

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Well, let me ask you something, because are you happy with the way that you phrased what you said in that post? Because I remember when we had Simon Evans on the show, a great comedian, one of the things he said is that a lot of people in the comedy industry agreed with you and he did. Yeah. But the way you phrased.

some of the points that you made, which, in my opinion, are perfectly legitimate, valid points for someone to have, whether I personally agree with them or not. The way he said, he felt the way you phrase some of that, something about female comedians

pretending to be comedians or something. I don't know if that's the right quote, but he felt that he was much more difficult for people to defend you. Oh, it's very loaded, but that was where the humor was in it. And don't forget, the only reason, the reason why I was putting these posts up on Facebook and on Twitter

was to try and entertain and amuse the audience, my audience of ticket buyers who come to see my shows. That's who it was for. It's not me phoning up comedians or agents or TV production companies or sending them an email or... You're a bit of shit, mate. Exactly. You're only there because you're a woman.

Well, they saw it. because it's, yeah. They want to look at the pages up to them. Someone else shared it. Someone shared them. And, um,

which is fine. But, you know, it wasn't intended for them. And there's no, no reason why they should have bothered it with it anyway. They might have looked it and thought, well,

I don't agree with that. I moved on. But they didn't want to do that. They wanted to do more than that. And, um, uh, the expression I used,

I think, very difficult, 2014, I said that, um, comics were being booked for comedy shows based on their gender, ethnicity, sexual orientation. And I think I said there were women posing as comedians on panel shows, which there were. There were comedy panel shows with comedians, and there were women who were comedians on there,

who were open spots essentially who were doing open spots or middle spots at gigs who had been fast-tracked. How things haven't changed. For me, that is a harsh way of putting it, but I'm afraid you are, if you're an open spot or a middle spot

who's just starting to be paid at gigs and you have been fast-tracked in Thelive at the Apollo, which was what was to mock the week, which was what was happening then because they wanted female comedians. If that's who you were, then you were still learning your craft. You were posing as a comedian.

You weren't there yet. You were getting there. But, and it's certainly a harsh phrase, but if you're reading it, as someone who comes to see, goes to see comedy, buys tickets for an Andrew Lawrence comedy show, it's,

the harshness of the phrase is quite funny. Because the very fact that I've written the post at all is, is risky. Back then it's even risky because it flies in a face so much

of what the mentality and the ethos of the comedy comedy industry was and was back then and is now it was so

such a sort of biting the hand that feeds you exercise that's where the humour was the audacity and the cheek of doing that that's why it was funny

which is is galling to have to explain it. It's galling to have to explain it because people got that and then people chose to ignore that as well and when Simon Evans says oh I didn't agree with what he says.

That's not what you said actually. No, he said I didn't agree with the way he phrased it or whatever he said then he's missing the fact that it wasn't intended for him and it wasn't intended for the comedy industry.

Why on earth would I bother wasting my time putting a post on on social media for any other anyone else than the people who buy tickets to see my shows and also it's not as if I was the first person, the first comic to criticise and take

the piss out of mock the week. I think a lot of people have been saying it was bad for a very long time and continue to say it's bad. Online a lot of comics So you put the post up and you saw the reaction there must have been a bit of you, Andrew, that must have thought, for fuck sake, what have I done here? Do you regret putting that post up?

I felt, no, I don't. Well, if I didn't, yeah, I wouldn't have put it up if I'd known the reaction. It's still up there now, say the content of it I'm happy with. And I regret a reaction. If I knew the reaction,

I wouldn't have put it up. But at that point, I felt detached from the comedy industry anyway. At that point, because all I was doing was going and this was the extent of my job was I was going to art center venues. I didn't have a support act. I didn't have a tour manager or anything like that. I'd go to my art center venues.

I meet the technician and we work out the lights and the sound. And I do my show and I go home. So I was detached from the whole comedy industry and had been for probably probably a year or more. because I wasn't really seeing other comedians, socially or other aura gigs. I wasn't doing TV or radio, really, at that point. I was just doing those tour dates. So, and these people who were suddenly, comics,

who were suddenly leaving comments or messaging me on social media, many of whom I'd never met before in my life, and some that I had. I thought, well, what are you talking to me now? I haven't talked to you in years, you know. Feel free to come and chat to me any time on social media, but I don't know idea you're even following me or looking at my posts. And so it was odd.

And my reaction was, well, just leave it. I'm not really, I felt like I wasn't part of, I felt like I was apart from it, you know, that it had never been my politics, the politics of the comedy industry. I don't really, I don't know what I am. It changes all the time politically. I'm quite, I don't, so I'm quite, you know, without sounding potency, I'm quite nihilistic. I don't really, I struggle to find any real sort of meaning or have any real fixed views constantly. You know, at different times, I think, and I think different things, but I'm not really committed to.

Someone just want to see the world burn, Andrew. Well, I'm not, I'm just not really committed to anything, do you know what I mean? I'm not really, which is nihilism, isn't it? I'd always felt sort of an outsider in the stand-up industry to that degree, in green rooms, in dressing rooms. And on TV things, I felt like an outsider, but then you step on stage and it feels like you're at home. You know, you feel, well, this is it.

I know where I am, what I'm doing here. This is perfect. I don't want to do anything else. But that, I know what my politics are. I don't have any fixed politics. All I knew was I wasn't that sort of sanctimonious, self-righteous, sort of faux liberal thing that has existed in comedy long before any of us started. But I felt like I could do it anyway.

I was allowed to do standard comedy. I didn't have to be that thing. But maybe I did. Maybe you do have to be that thing. but so but it was very much marketed Andrew is when it happened as in Andrew Lawrence

has now gone right wing Andrew Lawrence has now turned to the dark side well I think that that was there was one particular journalist at the time picked up on it specifically which was

a guy called Steve Bennett who runs a comedy website called Chortle and And when I put this Facebook post up, I think there were three articles about me on the homepage of the website. It's very unusual because I'm not well known. You know, even at the peak of the work I was doing, I'd go.

I still occasionally get recognised once every, probably once every couple of weeks. Someone's, oh, you're that comic. And then it might happen every, if I was out and about, maybe once every three days or something but and I'll wear a hat all the time anyway

because I hate all that but I wasn't well known so there was no there was something extra there the fact that he picked up and he thought I'm going to run with this and I'm sure he was getting hits

it must have been that he was getting a lot of hits on his website for it did the same thing with me when I turned down that contract he did exactly the same thing and there was no there was none of you were going to make a joke about Steve Benny

you can't miss this opportunity No, no, no, no. I'm just saying it never happened to me because I'm a good person. Not like the rest of you, pricks. But Andrew, what really happened with you, it seems to me, is that you tread on a landmine, which maybe you weren't even aware of at the time, which is we all know, and even the people who advocate for the diversity thing, they know what they're doing, which is they're promoting people who are not. And I don't say this as a criticism of them because it's not their fault.

But there are people who are being pushed because of, as you say, they tick a certain box. And you seem to me like you tread on that landmine because maybe you hadn't realized how toxic an issue it was because you were really saying the emperor's naked when no one wanted to hear that. I don't mind, do you know what I don't even mind it? I don't even mind that people get opportunities for that reason. What I want people to do is admit there is happening. Yeah. Because there's other people who are.

on getting opportunities because of this political decor- this political agenda. So if you're that person who's got this opportunity, because you've ticked that box, at least have the humility to acknowledge that and know that. And actually, some comedians do to great comedic effect. You know, I think Romish, Anganathan, who I love, I think he's a great comic. he's a nice guy he went on I saw him go on a few shows

and he'd open by by by uh by saying don't worry guys doesn't matter whether I'm funny I'm only here at the ticker quality or diversity box or something that I think it's very funny but he also knows there's truth to that as well and he he knows that and he's saying and I respect that and and also

I've seen I think I saw it's his joke. I've seen other comics do it, but I'm not going to give them credit for doing it because he's the first that I saw do it. So I have respect for that. And I think I'm a real believer in that popular expression, stay humble or be humbled. And I just want people to admit it is going on.

Because he is, isn't it? And it's all a little bit clandestine. Yeah, it is. And, you know, and then we see people getting promoted and we're like, hang on, I just, you're not that good. I've seen you struggle. You touched on faux liberalism, which I find really, really interesting within the comedy industry. And that everyone pretends to be liberal, everyone pretends to be woke. Why have we got this pressure when really comedians are always dreadful people?

Yeah, well, there's, it's, um... You only think that's... because you work with me I think it's an odd thing isn't it, to want to devote your life to go step on stage and trying to make strangers laugh

and I don't think it I think a lot of the time it doesn't come from a good place yeah it's very difficult the whole sanctimony the self-righteousness

the faux liberalism the posturing You think, is this knowingly deceitful? Are they knowingly putting on this front? Or is it a sort of, is it a sort of mass hysteria? Is it a cult? You know what I mean? Because I like to, if you've got a little bit of faith in humanity,

you think I don't want to think that it's a deceit. They're doing it because they think it would help their career. I don't want to think that. I want to think it's because it's got into their head. It doesn't have to be that devious though, Andrew, does it? Because, like, I was talking to somebody at a comedy club the other day, and he was saying to me, I really like the way you talk about politics because I can't do it. And I was like, what do you mean?

You can't do it. And he went, well, I'm just a straight white guy born British. Therefore, if I start talking about my opinions, I'm going to get destroyed. There's also just an element of, like, survival instinct for some people. Do you know what I mean? Object fear. Yeah, well, it's not like they've sat down and gone, oh, what's the best way to advance my career?

They maybe just don't want to get crushed. The trouble is if you're a good comic, you go for what's difficult. Yeah. What's the one thing, people? What's the one thing? No one's talking about. Where there's Jeopardy and me making jokes about it,

because if you get it right, the risk-reward thing is, if you tackle that subject that could ruin you and you get it right, the reaction the whole room explodes laughter

people doubled over with laughter if you get it wrong 10 years ago you probably die for the rest of the gig didn't matter you start again

at the next gig if you get it wrong this now could be your whole career over it could be as a comedian so

the risk reward is much greater but there is a positive to that in as much as it's quite quite an exciting time to watch those

comics say those things and take those risks where you think this could ruin you but you're getting it right and it's hilarious because if those comics said the same thing 10 years ago if Patrice O'Neill who's made probably arguably the best

of all time, one of the best of all time Patrice O'Neill said the things he said whatever it was I don't know why can't I harass you Well, yeah, if he's whatever, whatever he, the things he said on stage, what are we going to say 15 years ago, he said them then and they were and he was brilliant. If he said them now and get or go away with it, which he would, imagine how much fun it would be because of the jeopardy and the joy they would give you thinking you can, you can do it. It's like the Chappelle special or Ricky Javais.

Yeah, at the Golden Globe. Exactly. People are crying out for it. Watching those Chappelle specials in recent years, this is exciting. He's going to, he's going to, but Bill Burr as well. And Andrew Schultz as well. Andrew Schultz in this country, would not, if he was starting out, he wouldn't get a gig.

He'd be blacklisted everywhere. He would be blacklisted. He would not play anywhere, I think. Okay, so that's a great point. So he'd be, but why do you think we have this urge to blacklist people? Is it? I don't know. It's a difficult word in a blacklist.

It might be, it might be the wrong. Or, you know, or suddenly, you know, shun or whatever else. Punish people for having the wrong opinion or the wrong type of comment. But you see, it's all done very carefully. There's nothing. So much of it isn't overt. But you see Alistair Williams talk about how I can't play the clubs. The clubs he used to book me won't book me.

And my career is over because I put this video up about Brexit, which was a funny, funny video. You should watch it if you haven't. Alistair Williams, Brexit Burger King's very funny video. And he says, I put this video up and now my career's finished, comedy career is finished. And I'm sure a lot of people look at that thing. Really? Yeah, you're sure? I think you're playing up to this a little bit.

But I know because I've been there that. Actually, there are clubs. There are clubs that won't book him now. And for him, the difference between those clubs that won't book him that were booking him, who are not booking him now, is the difference between making a living and not. So by putting that video up and these clubs not booking him anymore, he's not able to make a living from stand-up potentially, which means he can't focus on what he's doing full-time.

He's got to find some other source of income. And it's very, very damaging to him as a comedian, developing, going to do gigs and writing and coming up with new material because now he's got a lot of money worries about how he's going to pay his bills when actually his diary should be full. Every weekend should be full in his diary because he's a good comic and he delivers and he's reliable. And he's not controversial.

He's not, he can, you know, you can, you can look at some of the stuff he posts online and I think he's controversial, but you put him in a club anywhere on a weekend and he'll deliver and he's a very reliable act. So people should book him. And I know he's, he's not lying. There are clubs that, because, you know, when I are touring venues, some of them stop booking me. And even this time around, and my tour this time around, I send them a copy for the blurb for the show. show to promote the show that they put on their website, whatever it is, a hundred words or something. And based on that, not a word of the show. They haven't seen the show. I don't even know what the show is before, or what the content of the show is before they booked

in. Two venues on this show on this tour, booked my showing, contracts all done. Got the copy for the show. I said, we're not doing this. So they had to pay me a cancellation fee.

because they weren't cancelled on the show which is fine I don't have to make the journey you found a great way to cash in cash in on your notoriety money

it's the it's the I but then I came to doing playing less and less touring venues so I thought

I want to stay sharp I'll go back and do the clubs but then when I went back to try and do the clubs clubs that I'd headlined for years and years

regularly suddenly suddenly I couldn't wouldn't talk to me wouldn't return my emails my phone calls nothing they wouldn't talk to me

and frozen out by by some bookers who know that if they put me on the bill I've got the TV credits that'll sell the tickets they know I'll deliver because I've been doing it so long they know I'm not

particularly I'm not controversial they know that and this is the thing I'm not Even the Facebook page, I'd never put anything on social media that has got me suspended or any kind of ban from social media. Never, not once. I wish we could say that. And yet there's this false impression out there of me of being a controversial comedian, which has been generated by this journalistic input. At the time I put that Facebook post up, the Chaucer website, Steve Bennett, guy who runs,

had put three aftercalls about me on the home page of his website, which is unusual because no one knew who I was really. I'm not well known. And he sort of, he was obviously getting hits for him, probably predominantly from people within the comedy industry. So he ran with it and made a lot more of it. than there was, and made it into something a lot more controversial than it was.

And then, I think the independent as well at the time, which was still on newspaper rather than just an online blog, published some stuff about me as well, because I thought, well, this will get people clicking online, which was quite far removed from anything that I'd put up on social media, but they're one of the clicks. for their advertising or whatever. Speaking of advertising,

before Francis asked you our last question because we're out of time. You're about to go on tour at the time this comes out, you may already be on tour, which is called Pale, Mail and Stale. Great title. Pale Mail and Stale Tour.

So where can people get tickets for that? I'm sure you'll be at least as funny as this interview, if not more. Yeah, I saved all my best stuff. How do people get tickets to see you? You know, you can come to my website, Andrew Lawrencecomedy.comedy.com. It's just a staggered tour.

Yeah, it's all on the website if you feel like coming along. All right. Go to see, Andrews is a very, very, very funny comedian. There was one question I wanted to ask, which before we wrapped up, and I kept trying to ask it, kept going away. The thing I loved about your comedy,

I still am a massive fan, but when I first, as an open spot, one of my favourite comedians, genuinely. And the reason was, because you would have with your jokes I would describe as a beautiful savagery to the way you write. And I look at Mock the Week

and I look at a lot of these, you know, satirical panel shows or people on TV. And it's fucking boring. Comedy to me should be about saying the truth, however unpleasant it may be, and just hitting that bull's eye. Yeah. And that's what audiences,

that's what deep down we go and see comedians. That's why we worship the point. prize of Patrice O'Neils, your Bill Hicks's, you know, your Joan Rivers, people who come out, why has it become so boring? Well, you know, I think always the sort of comedians you're talking about are predominantly American comics and I think there's a lot more you can do in America as a stand-up. I think for a lot of years

not anymore but when I started out probably until four or five years ago the BBC was was what you what you aim for and to get on there you had to

you had to water down what you do and I did that and a lot of acts did it as well and because you know you want to earn some money you don't want to live in a dump and you know if you've got a family you've got kids to support and mortgages to pay and nursery fees

you love stand-up but you've got to find the money from somewhere and if you're looking the further you go away from stand-up to look for alternative streams of income the worst you get a stand-up because you need to be giving it your full focus it's you can't do it half-assed it's you have to give it everything, absolutely everything to be good at it, to be really good at it. You have to, there can't be anything else, I think. Andrew, so before we let you go, the last question we always ask is, what is the one question that no one's talking about, the one issue that no one's talking about, that we should be talking about?

Yeah. Do you know what? It's difficult, because it's all out there, isn't it? It's all out there somewhere. There's too much talking. There's too much talking. all right that's it we're shutting down down to

our imagery end the conversation hashtag no debate I think there needs to be more discussion about social media and how it's

regulated or not regulated as the case may be and about I think and a lot more exploration of its impact on people's people's lives. I think we're just scratching the surface of that.

I think things, the Facebook and Twitter and Instagram are now having a profound impact on a lot of people's lives. And I think there has to be some acknowledgement of that, first of all, but I think there has to be a lot of discussion about that, not enough discussion about that, I think, takes place. All right Well, thank you. It's a great answer

and it's actually very, you know, it's very prescient because as a former teacher I've seen the effect, you know, children completely addicted to smartphones or the rest of it

being right until 2 in the morning 10, 11 year olds. But thank you very much for coming on the show. Andrew, people want to find you on social media, ironically enough, where can they do that?

Well, my, I'm at Andrew Lawrence on Twitter, I guess. I love the way you had to think about. It's your own name.

Yeah. By the way, well done on getting the fact that you're a former teacher into yet another episode. Yeah, absolutely. Good stuff. Yep. As always, make sure you follow Andrew. Check my his very, very funny stand-up. Make sure you go see him on tour.

Really, really great comic. Deeply problematic. Deeply problematic. Mail palest, there you go. And as always, follow us at TriggerPod, YouTube, Facebook, Twitter, etc. And we'll see you in a week's time with another brilliant episode. Take care. See you next week, guys.