TRIGGERnometry - How We Got Iran's Nuclear Secrets - Ex Mossad Director Yossi Cohen

Episode Date: October 1, 2025

Yossi Cohen is a former Mossad Director (2016–2021), known for leading daring operations like seizing Iran’s nuclear archive and helping broker the Abraham Accords. | Venice AI: Private, uncensored AI https://venice.ai/triggernometry - use code TRIGGERNOMETRY to get 20% off a pro plan Triggernometry is proudly independent. Thanks to the sponsors below for making that possible: - Cape - America's privacy-first mobile carrier. Click https://cape.co/trigger - Promo Code: TRIGGER33 for 33% off - GiveSendGo - the free speech crowdfunding platform https://www.givesendgo.com/#triggerpod Join our exclusive TRIGGERnometry community on Substack! https://triggernometry.substack.com/ OR Support TRIGGERnometry Here: Bitcoin: bc1qm6vvhduc6s3rvy8u76sllmrfpynfv94qw8p8d5 Shop Merch here - https://www.triggerpod.co.uk/shop/ Advertise on TRIGGERnometry: [e-mail] Find TRIGGERnometry on Social Media: https://twitter.com/triggerpod https://www.facebook.com/triggerpod/ https://www.instagram.com/triggerpod/ About TRIGGERnometry: Stand-up comedians Konstantin Kisin (@konstantinkisin) and Francis Foster (@francisjfoster) make sense of politics, economics, free speech, AI, drug policy and WW3 with the help of presidential advisors, renowned economists, award-winning journalists, controversial writers, leading scientists and notorious comedians. 00:00 - Introduction 01:22 - What Is Mossad? 04:17 - Criticism Of The Israeli Military On October 7th 12:57 - Why Did The Military Response Take So Long? 17:10 - Why Had Mossad Not Infiltrated Hamas? 20:25 - The Mindset Of An Operative 36:00 - The Stealing Of Iran's Nuclear Secrets 47:07 - Did The Strikes On Iran By The US Destroy Their Nuclear Programme? 50:14 - Why Does Iran Want A Nuclear Bomb? 58:03 - How Big Are The Threats To The UK From Terror Cells? 01:12:02 - What's The One Thing We're Not Talking About That We Really Should Be? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

You're very, very critical of the Israeli military when it comes to October 7th. Correct. What do you think were the key failings that caused that to happen? Well, why have Israeli secret services not infiltrated Hamas? Why isn't there a guy there going, hey, they're going to launch a fucking attack? Why didn't that happen? Based on your intelligence, based on what you know, why does Iran want a nuclear bomb? The biggest coup of your career as Director of Mossad that we know about, at least,

was stealing Iran's nuclear secrets. Yeah. I mean, no exactly what's happening in this kind of world. I think that there are hiding the filthiest secrets of Iran bring it home. We brought a lot of

documents on this, a lot of videos and hard disks. I mean, amazing stuff. We've been surprised ourselves. So what did you find? If you've ever wanted to ask one of our guests a question, now's your chance.

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Thank you very much for having me. You're the former director of Mossad. Your book is called Sword of Freedom. It's good to have you on the show. Thank you very much. For our audience, you may be less familiar with the world of the secret service and so on. What is Mossad? Well, Mossad is an intelligence service.

I mean, working outside of the Sterev, as well. I mean, in comparison to the other organization that you may know, I mean, the MI6 in the British version of the James Wonders, as we call it, or the CIA. all right I mean the and these are the like the equivalence of the Mossad Mosadd is an intelligence organization quite a big one I mean in comparison with the others the many quantity of the people the quality of the people is amazing and we operate outside of the state of Israel I mean behind the enemy lines as we call it I mean we don't do anything inside the country your foreign intelligence service absolutely and

can you explain the intelligence infrastructure of Israel there are other organizations that do other things Shinnbet and others How does it work? Who handles what? Okay. I mean, it's very, very easy to define like in the UK. I mean, there is the internal service, I mean, which is the Shinbet, the Shabakh, as we call them today. They do internally, they do whatever is connected to our local security from within. It is like terrorism, local terrorism, counter espionage against others that are trying to spy inside the country, inside the state of Israel. security, physical security of like MPs, prime minister, and our embassies abroad.

I mean, all like official entities of the Israeli, of Israel as a state outside of the country. This is the shit bit. Beside all that, I mean, there are a few military bodies, intelligence military bodies, that are working together simultaneously with us, together with us. The one which is very famous now, 80200, Shmone Matai, we call it in Hebrew. very well-known one working on signal intelligence. This is a monster of signal intelligence. I mean, they do what we have to do to intercept a mission,

to hack, sorry to say, I mean, the enemy's planning for us. And this is part of the military intelligence. Of course, I mean, we all work together. And the third one would be the military intelligence as a part of it. I mean, it's like above Shmuhna Mataim, I'm the 8,200, of course, the single intelligence, but there is a kind of a military intelligence that is like seeing everything, reading everything, being involved in collecting materials from all of us, and somehow direct our missions, even Mossad's mission, abroad to their national needs.

So, I mean, these are the main, I would say, three bodies. 80 to 100, I've mentioned that separately because they're goods and they're, I mean, they're very important, I mean, to our resilient, I believe in the country. And you mentioned military intelligence. One of the things that really stands out in your book is you're very, very critical of the Israeli military when it comes to October 7th. Correct. What do you think were the key failings that caused that to happen? Well, I think on the national level, I mean, when I was national security advisor, I mean,

you have to realize that there is a country to guard, that there is a country to preserve, that there is a country to make sure that it will exist the next day, right? I mean, and you do have, on a national level, you do have two lines of defense that has to be emphasized by us, Israelis. The one, I mean, by the way, it applies to every other country too. Like, it's good to do that, the same thing, the same structure in all countries, UK and others. The first line of defense is the intelligence line, which the one that you don't see, which is the one that you don't see.

I mean, this intelligence line is, all of us, as described before, are working to know what the enemy is playing for us. What's his plans? What does they have in his mind? I mean, what does the Iranians, what do they want to do? I mean, what are the plans of terror attacks? I mean, are the Iranians or other terror activity or terror activity? or terror organization, I'm sorry, is our planning for us.

And this is something that has to be conducting by intelligence forces to make sure that we know every day, every morning, every time, every minute, what are the enemy plans, i.e., enemy, each one of them, that I've mentioned before. It could be Rhezbollah, Iran, Syrians at the time, or Hamas. this line unfortunately collapsed I mean when I say collapse I don't say that we didn't have intelligence at all but we didn't have a significant

meaningful intelligence to tell us or to give us the alert that the enemy is about to come why didn't you have that information because I believe that we didn't invest enough in Gaza street I believe that for years I mean we're not there we're not physically there and it's worthwhile explaining a little bit I mean, when we have disengaged from Gaza, what we call the Hittnacht Kutz in Hebrew, we left the 365 square kilometers for the Gassian people themselves. That was a one-sided decision made by former Prime Minister Ariel Sharon.

I mean, I'm sure you remember the time. And we've left Gaza Street completely. When you leave the territory, okay, you're losing part of your intelligence holding on the ground. you see less people that they can recruit. I mean, you engage with less Gaza people that can be recruited, or Hamas people, of course, that can be recruited. And I think that we missed all that. Okay, so the deterioration of the holding in Gaza was imminent.

And by the way, I saw it happening in 2014-15 when I was active as the National Security Advisor. and I saw during one of our round of violence, as we called him, Tuketan protective edge, that was the formal English version of that round of violence, that the level of intelligence is not high enough. It's not good enough, unfortunately. I realized that because Mossad is not dealing with the Palestinian thing, right? Abroad, yes, but again, Gaza and Judean Samaria, we do not.

I mean, we're not involved in that, since we are working behind the enemy lies, abroad. The problem is that Gaza behaves like it is abroad. Gaza behaves like it is a foreign country. I mean, you can't go with your either military forces. You can't go with your Shabak, whatever, four-by-four armored vehicles. You can't go arrest someone inside his house in Gaza-strip cities, which is super different than territories like others, other territories like Judean Samaria or whatever East Jerusalem or even inside the country.

And that creates a kind of a gap in between what we knew and what they have planned. And that gap actually created this disastrous activity, horrifying activity in October 7th. I have alerted that. When I returned to the Mossad in 2016, I offered, that's footed that way, I volunteered and I offered my services to the country. And I said, my perspective is that the Gaza level of intelligence is not sufficient. There will never be sufficient if we will not participate in that. Because we have the ability to work under cover.

We have the ability to work differently inside difficulty territories, like difficult territories like this one, like we do in Hezbollah and Iran and other places that you have been, of course, aware of recently. And for reasons that would be kept with them, I was rejected. The Muslim Mossad was rejected, I mean, to intensively help in that intelligence war inside Gaza. By the prime minister? But prime minister didn't give the order to do that, but I was rejected by my counterparts in military intelligence and Shabak altogether. So first land of defense has collapsed.

I mean, this is what has happened. Meaning is that if you don't have the right alarm and we didn't have it, this is what's happening. But did you know that, you, Israel, did you not know they're building terror tunnels? Did you not know their stockpiling weapons? Did you not know that they're training? Did you not know that they're scoping out the defense barrier, etc.?

Did you know any of this? We did, but we didn't know enough. I mean, to my understanding, we did, and we knew. that these things are happening. And by the way, it's a very interesting question because in 2014 and 15, I mean, the major thing that we were worried about

are the penetrative tunnels. This is what we're looking for. You were worried they dig under. They dig under. I mean, we knew that. I mean, by the way, they kidnapped a soldier. I mean, Gilachal at the time being, like, coming into our territory

under the famous fence. And we didn't know what they are. Okay, imagine it's a huge territory, by the way. I mean, 365 square kilometers, six times more than whatever Manhattan, the island, right, which is less than 60 square kilometers. So it's a big territory. Imagine all this, I mean, being like penetrated by under tunnels, I mean, 1.2 meters wide and very, very, very long ones. I mean, starting at the end of the world, I mean, close to the sea. And I mean, penetrating all the way down under the state of Israel.

We had to know that and we did not. That was the reason for us to crash, I think, part of the borderline in 2014 and 15 and ongoing. So we knew all that. And by the way, there is another thing that I refer to, which is should the state of Israel be or not proactive, all right, to defeat our enemies. And I found myself, I mean, often, more, I would say, proactive than the others, not alone. I mean, others from these organizations were cooperating beautifully with this kind of thesis that says rise and kill first, as we all believe in. But at the same time, things that have happened as to your description were not being eventually crashed or disrupted or disabled inside Gaza. because the thing, I believe, was, is to maintain the Gazaan territory quiet.

It applies, by the way, the same for Iran. It applies the way we have behaved in Israel with Hezbollah, too. So that's why you don't see many operations happening in this kind of territories beside Kalanistan operations, all right? But you don't have the absolute ones unless we feel that there is a must-do and we are conducting this kind of rounds in order to disrupt the enemy's capability. So come back to October 7th, there was the intelligence failure that you've just described. One of the other questions a lot of people have is why it took so long for the military response, why it took so long for troops to get into the area where the enemy were?

I don't know. I mean, this is a question that I can't really answer. I'm not part of the army. I was never. I mean, yeah, when I was 18, but since then not much. I don't really know. This is a very tough question that has to be answered, I believe, by the national investigating committee that will have to be eventually formed, I mean, in a given time. I mean, I think that we're really needed right now, but I... Why hasn't it been formed so far? I'm not sure yet. I'm not sure yet. I mean, there are many, many, many, many questions about that. I know that most of the people of Israel, I mean, if you interviewed Israelis, I mean,

most of them would have told you that this is the actual thing to do. And more than that, I believe that we need this committee to investigate what went wrong, not who went wrong. And it's a big difference. I mean, I'm not looking to hang people, you know, say who he's the one to be blamed. I mean, he is the one. I mean, we know them, all right. I mean, we know the generals, we know that the people have been working.

I mean, the different divisions inside the different intelligence body and the army themselves. I mean, part of them took responsibility on what they did, right? They took open responsibility like Chief of Staff Ertei Levy and Chief of Shabak, Rönen. But they took responsibility, and they said, we're responsible. I mean, the failure is on us. But the investigation committee, I mean, should investigate it, why is it that we didn't know enough? For example, should we, in the coming future, look differently in Gaza, given that the territory will be a territory

that we will have to be securing. I mean, we'll have to make sure that the Ghazan people or the Ghazan Hamas will not, if they will still be there, hopefully not. But if they're still there, do we, we have to make sure that this is not happening again, right?

And more than that, I mean, I think that it needs maybe kind of a reform in our way of thinking. What is Shabakh territory? What is intelligence military territory? What is Mossah territory? And this is something that has to to be, I mean, thought of and reformed, because things are maybe different than there were after 67, right?

And it's a mixture of conflicts in between us and the Palestinian Authority and the people living in territories, A, B, and C, that's part of the Judean Samaria area. And if you go back to Gaza, Gaza is not part of the Palestinian Authority, non-officially. Officially it's theirs, but it's a couple. So all this map, which is a kind of a cocktail of troubles, has to be reformed. And in order to reform that, I think that you need a body from above to tell you, you went wrong there and there and there. We better change it that manner, into that manner. So we will have the intelligence needed than defense needed. Okay, that's the first line of defense. It's a very, very big question that I have.

is why did it happen? Or as I think I described it in my book and I said, I'm not surprised, but I'm shocked. I'm not surprised that we didn't have enough intelligence. I said that blindly. I'm shocked that level of intelligence was so poor, unfortunately. So we didn't see, you know, it's not a lone wolf that I have to find. When he's driving on his scooter from Baghdad cutting into Syria,

going all the way into Turkey, I mean to conduct terror activity, or here into London, in London itself. I have to see that. One, it's 1,500 terrorists altogether simultaneously. I mean, imagine I'm trying to, okay, the size of the people supporting this 1,500. How many people knew about that secret? Right? Logistics, training, technical support, telehealth,

communication. I mean, all that. I mean, think about all the, I mean, it's you, I know. And just to interrupt your seat, as a complete layman, I'm listening to what you're saying. I mean, you're making great point after great point after great point about this. And I'm going, well, why have Israeli secret services not infiltrated Hamas? Why isn't there a guy there going, hey, they're going to launch a attack? You best get, why didn't that happen? That's the same question. I mean, what went wrong. I mean, everything went wrong. If you don't know what the enemy is planning for you, all right? You know, you know, doing your job. My job is to tell you, I mean, not you only, but you know what, you too.

I mean, my best, one of our best partners here in the UK, and we'll refer to that, because I'm sure that you're going to ask about the amazing and important declaration of Prime Minister Stammer about the Palestinian future, whatever Palestinian state. But at that time that I was conducting this intelligence bureau of mine, of the Mossad, One of our best partners, well, the MA5, your local security here. And local security has to be informed by all others who's going to do something against your own kingdom. All right? So if you knew that, you have passed your job with distinction.

If you fade, you know nothing. You know what? Knowing nothing means that there is a terror attack in streets of London. knowing nothing is like where is the Iranian nuclear sites knowing nothing is what is Khazbala planning for us this is knowing nothing so you have to invest a lot in order to know all right so if you haven't penetrated them correctly okay by all means I'm not saying only human like human intelligence is my

professional right how to recruit people from within the enemy whatever bodies and entities if you don't do that it means you know nothing I mean, I think that knowing significantly is the version, is the right version. You may know, but you don't know enough. And we didn't know enough. If you're a trigonometry fan, you probably think before taking things at face value. So why trust a mobile carrier that makes billions selling your data behind your back? That answer is Cape, a premium mobile carrier built from the ground up to protect your privacy.

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An elderly widow working at an aquarium. Tova forms an unlikely friendship with their cramudgeonly, Marcellus, whose remarkable intelligence leads her to a life-changing discovery. Watch remarkably bright creatures with your remarkable moms this Mother's Day weekend, only on Netflix May 8th. One of the things that I really enjoyed Yossi about your book is you talked about the mindset of an operative. who goes behind enemy lines, who gets to know the enemy and the way that you frame it.

Can you talk a little bit about that? Because the psychology of that is fascinating. Yeah, it's all about mindset, I think. Well, to be an operative, I mean, you have to fit the job, right? I'm not sure that I can be a great commentary or whatever interview guy. I mean, you have to have a different mindset. I mean, for every single job that there is, I believe, around the globe, right? I mean, everybody has his own profession, and that's a profession.

That's a very, very important profession, I think, I mean, for the sake of all countries. But in order to be an operated, I mean, inside this huge profession that we call spionage. I mean, you have to have special, I would have qualities, let's put it, our way, that fits, or that would fit in the job. And what is it that we need? All right? I mean, we need, first, I mean, I think, humbly saying, I think that it is to be a brave guy.

I mean, in a way, you have to know how to go and to penetrate them behind enemy lines. I mean, you have to go in trouble and to know who you are undercover. I mean, you have to work a lot undercover. You have to present something else which is not your truth, a true identity. And this is something that has to be worked upon.

The mindset that you have referred to is something that you wear every time that you live the country. Every time that you're out of Israel, there is a kind of a mindset that says, I'm not who I am anymore. I'm not Yossi anymore. Now I am, whatever, Michael, Richard, or David, that's not good, but other names. I refer to Gabriel, but it's not a good one too. But never mind. I mean, you used to be Muhammad or Masaoud or whatever. And this kind of shield is the only one that protects you, okay, in front of the enemy. This is what he sees. You want him to see that and that only.

So you have to be a kind of a actor on a stage. So the spionage arena is a kind of a huge stage, okay, the world stage. Okay, that you go in wearing this kind of not physical, but cover stories mask. Or can you have to play it? And you have to play it right. You have to be whatever you want to do in front of your given audience. They may be Iranians or Europeans or South Africans or South Americans or whatever. I mean, you have to go places that will have to,

and you have to play your own character by yourself. And each one of us has to play his own character by himself. And they're changing characters. I mean, they're not all the time the same. Okay, I mean, you have different characters like an actor on stage again. I mean, you can play, what is it, and Fondo of the Opera, and the next day you can play a book of Mormons. I mean, you, I mean, these are the shows that I've seen here, absolutely. So it still reflects.

I mean, you don't do Abba voyage, because that's a different thing. It's all. Yeah, absolutely. But the one that you describe it beautifully in the book is when you talk about the character of Abdullah. And that is very interesting. Because. Because, because what it does is we are fed a lot of nonsense, I would say, about spy. And you say it in the book as well about what it is to be a spy.

But with the story of Abdullah, you actually explain espionage as it truly is. And I know that there's millions of people out there who would be fascinated by that. So let's talk about that story and how it was that you made that particular, that case work. Well, in this kind of case or like other cases, I mean, you have to know what the target is. You have to know what you want to achieve. I mean, generally speaking, there is a map of targets, okay, I mean, in front of us. I mean, we know what we have to achieve as the state of Israel, of course, at the Mossad. We do know what are the targets that we have to know.

Assume that we need to know something about the Iranian nuclear stuff. how do we map, okay, our targets in order to make sure that we will get engaged, okay, we will engage, I'm sorry, to the targets that we need, that they are there. And you have to build a kind of an arm of intelligence that will study who are the targets inside. These are the intelligence officers at the back office, right? They gather what we have as for now, and we say, okay, now we know, let's say, 20% of the picture, we have to know 80% or 100% of what they do. These are the targets that has to be achieved.

Part of them are physical. Part of them are visual. Part of them are by recruiting people from within the entities. Or from within the, I mean, in that case, within the Iranian or the Hezvala group. And you have to, and each one of us or each group of us, I mean, gets its proper targets. it's not that everyone is doing everything I mean some of us are doing some and we do have a line of targets

that has to be engaged by us and when Abdullah's case like many others I believe I mean I refer to that probably because this is the one I whatever I remember them we're writing the boot but there's so many other or there were thousands of stories that I can

that I can reveal or thousands of cover stories that I can reveal to I mean referring to the this twin thing that has to up in between the target and me or the target and us. Okay? This is something that has to be conducting beautifully, smoothly, without anyone knowing that you are there, without anyone knowing that you have arrived, without anyone knowing what is your proper reason for being there, and without him or her, suspecting that he is a target, while we know everything about him already.

So there is a huge advantage on our side that we know what the enemy or where the enemy is and what it does. On their side, of course, there are some cases that they've suspected or there are some cases that they believe that we're not who we are and who we present we are. And we had some problems to explain that. Sometimes they have to run away or to escape. I mean, from the espionage arena, as we probably call it.

But this is something that refers to a given operation or to any operation. It will, I believe, be conducted in a very different manner. So each one of them has probably the same fundamental capabilities and abilities. I mean, either organizational ones or private ones. personal ones. And then it has to be conducted towards the target. And I hope I answered your question. No, no, you did. You did. You did answer the question. But the thing that I found fascinating is you were talking about weaknesses of character in the book. And you were saying that every time. Our side or theirs? Their side. Yeah, both. But no, but their side. And you said that there are things that people crave deep down that motivate them. For some people, it's money. For some people, it's sex. And you, so explain that when you're, so, it's, when you're targeting someone because you want something out and whether it be information or something else.

Right. I mean, I think that what we're trying to do is first to know the target very well. Okay. If anyone is the target, and I know him, but I know him by whatever, either listening to him or following him or knowing his friends or recruiting him and his entourage. I mean, people that are around him are already speaking about him doesn't really give me the real character, who he really is, right? And this is true for anyone. I mean, any, any, I would say, human contact in between anyone of us. I mean, there are layers that I've been seen and layers that you don't see.

Our mission is to be his best friend. In order to know who it really is, I mean, you have to really be his best friend. I mean, he really has to believe that you are his best friend or an ally or a colleague or someone that can serve his interests. And each one of us has different interests, but most of them are common. Okay, I mean, I'm not sure about you guys. I'm, you're not target, of course,

but thinking about yourselves as someone that has kind of an interest. I mean, who would you be interested to speaking to tomorrow? Who would be the one? That's what I'm looking for. I mean, would like, would you love to be in a different place?

Do you want to move a different country, different cities? Do you want to have a different profession? Do you want to move higher in your organization? Do you want to be rich? Do you want to save yourself from poverty? I mean, do you like to move ahead with your whatever, family, life, kids, wife, so forth? Or do you hate enough your regime?

So to help me, helping you, saving yourself from the current regime. This is, by the way, I think that John Le Correa, I mean, phrased that beautifully said, a good source has to hate someone and love someone. And this is very much the truth. Because when you are engaging with these kind of targets, with these kind of objects, as we call them, you really have to know where are they? I mean, take Hezbollah, for example.

Are they with Nasarala? Rest in peace. Are they with him? Do they believe in Hezbollah's agenda? or they counter that? Did they or are they part of the Iranian nuclear thing because that's the proper job, but they don't have an alternative, but they don't support that, or do they support it?

Do they like the Iranian regime to stay, or they want a change of regime currently? It's a big thing to know. For an Iranian guy or Hezbo, a terrorist, I mean, to tell you, I don't like what I do, and I counter what they do inside my country. It's a big thing, because who's a big thing? It's a big thing because who are you? It needs a super thick level of trust.

So they will tell you the reveal the secrets. And they said, I don't like them. Can I tell you that? It's a risky thing to say. Super risky thing to say. Not only in Iran, in all these dictatorships and autocrats. I mean, whatever, all these countries that are eventually forcing you not only to work upon a given target or a given whatever, vision, it could be the Iranian regime, or Shazbali, or other organization, but they

force you to accept what they offer unless you will be fired. And it's a very risky job, not our side only, there's two. I mean, in order to agree to open your heart to someone that you've just met, maybe a few weeks ago, maybe a few months ago, but someone that you've just met and telling you, hey, who are you? And we know, oh, interesting to know, to know, and then you go into this kind of relationship, you have to be super tight with him. The level of trust should be super tight that he will reveal his secrets.

And he will reveal his, whatever his heart. I mean, he will open his heart to you. And then when you have a friend on the other side, when there is a trust with your object, okay, you can do much more. And are there people that, are there many people that can't be turned? That cannot be?

Yeah. I can't assume that. I mean, in our workflow, there are many objects. Of course, some of them, or maybe many of them, have rejected all that. I mean, they said, no, we can't. Or to your point is to say, I don't need that. I'm not interested. Or many versions of many ways to leave your agent or to leave your operative, right?

Many ways I mean to say no. But there are many ways to say yes. And there are more than that. I think that not everyone is capable to recruit. Not everyone. I mean, put yourself in that, in these shoes. I mean, try to see, I mean, how would I do that? Do I have the capacity capabilities to do that? I mean, to play and to go and to say and to keep cover story and to give arguments to the other part, to the people are front of me, I mean, to the person in front of me telling him, okay, I mean, trust me, I'm your best friend. And more than that, I have to assume that everybody, everyone can be recruited. I have to assume that. I know it's, I know it's, that sound realistic because not all of them are recruitable, you can say. But if that's a target, I will have to try. And by the way, sometimes we surprise ourselves.

Sometimes you go to someone that you see openly that is enchanting and conducting the best way that the regime wants him to do. He speaks openly for the regime. He's so much in favor, but we see other layers. We do see other layers. We see his whatever, other layers. I want to go in. But when you engage with him, and after a few weeks or a few months,

this is the only way really to know who he is, where his heart is. Is this the guy I see on television, on public, on his whatever arena, local, whatever stadium? I mean, singing the regime song, or do I see the real one that I need? And there's a huge gap in between who they are publicly and who they are secretly, or in between friends and family. You, the trigonometry audience, understand how vital free speech is.

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How did that happen? And more importantly, what did you find? Because actually, it's interesting now, Israel wasn't really much in the news until two years ago. And I think for... Israel was not much in the news. He was not. He was not here. No, not in the UK. No, not in the West. No. I'll be honestly, I might be unpleasant for Israelis to hear, but no one really cared about Israel until October 7 happened. Yeah. But now it's obviously become a bigger conversation. Oh, you were dealing with your Brexit and stuff, right? I mean, that was more important. We've got a lot of problems. Okay. Yes, I know. Immigration. Let's not get into that because we're going to start crying.

So your coup, stealing around's nuclear secrets, happened before October 7th, obviously, significantly before. What did you find, first of all? because this was a big point of contention when Trump and Netanyahu bond the nuclear facilities. I want to ask you about that too. Okay, I will. If you fast forward your question into June 2025, this is the full answer. And I will go backwards. Fine.

Okay? I mean, with your permission. In 2016, after a few months that the JCPO was already signed, it was signed in July 2015 by the P5 Plus 1. UK included, right? England, France, Germany, USA, China and Russia. It's weird to think that all of these have worked together, all right? Now they dollar split. And the P5 plus one has signed the what we call the JCPOA, the nuclear deal. It's not the deal. Eventually, it's a plan of action. JCPA, joint comprehensive plan of action. That was a plan of action. When it was signed, we didn't like it. We, Israel. We didn't like it. Briefly, why?

Because we felt that the agreement is a terrible agreement that leaves Iran with a lot of capabilities and capacities. And we wanted them to go on zero. No enrichment, no sites, no nuclear sites, no scientists, no Fakhrii, Murtun Fálezadez group, what we call the weapon group. We wanted all that to be eventually dismissed, dismantled, whatever. I mean, to zero. Whereas it gave them some leeway? It gave them a lot of leeveau. I mean, till the sunset.

I mean, not only that. I mean, the Iranians eventually kept their capabilities. And that's a problem. It is true that if you go, I mean, we're not going to do a nuclear seminar, but the one thing that bothered us above it all, that they've kept capabilities in the bunkers alive. That means that they cannot only enrich uranium in the bunkers. They can even improve the enrichment, what they did.

Eventually, this is exactly what worried us. And more than that, there is a success. clause, as we call it, the sunset clause, as we call it, which is something that says that in a given time, the agreement eventually will be dismissed or will be cancelled or will be eventually banished or abandoned. It's not permanent. Yeah, not anymore. And we didn't like that.

We thought that Iran should be very low kept by the level of enrichment, if at all, okay, and that all nuclear sites, including the scientific work that they can. conducted should be completely closed and shut down. Okay, that was the one of the main arguments. All that was very well opened and kept by the Iran is according to that agreement. That's why we posed that dramatically. I was one of the negotiator. I mean at the time I was the prime negotiator for the Stelavisville for the nuclear deal. I had conducted this kind of relationship with the UK, French, all the others. And we said, I mean, we were I mean because every country received the kind of a vertical to deal with inside their agreement, headed by the USA, of course, the foreign ministry,

I mean, the Secretary of State and his team at the time John Kerry went to Sherman and the others. So we didn't like it that much. And we have told them that in our perspective, I mean, everything, all, everything that Iran is doing is under one vision. I mean, they're heading the bomb. I mean, they're trying to pave their way to the bomb. And this is something that they have declared again and again and again. from within the system that they're doing. They said, yeah, of course, because of that, we need an agreement. And we said we have to attack the sites. If they don't stop, we have to attack.

The gap that was not fulfilled till June 13th this year. But in 2016, after the agreement was signed, we saw something very weird happening in Iran, which is under Ministry of Defense and Dr. Mousen Fakhryz is there, rest in peace, they have started to collect these kind of materials from all of the country under a very discrete manner, super secret thing that's happening in Iran itself, says you will bring us everything that you have,

hardware, software, disks, papers, documents, everything that we have done under this nuclear secret activity into one side. That's alerted me. That was the thing that I said, something wrongs happening there. I don't know what is it yet, but I want to know what's there. Two years later, that was the archive. And we said two things at the beginning. One, don't lose your eye from the ball.

Make sure that we know everything that he is doing or they're doing because there were a few who knew about that in Iran itself. And number two, when we see it lands somewhere in Iran, okay? It has to be, by the way, a site that is not recognized as an official site because of the agreement, because the IAEA, the agency, I mean the nuclear agency, atomic agency in Vienna, under the agreement, could visit any site. All right? So they say if the site is not on the official list, okay? I mean, they don't even know how to ask where to visit.

You can't inspect the site. You can't inspect something you don't know about. Yeah, exactly. And this is what they, that's why they placed it in a kind of a warehouse inside the Iran in a kind of an industrial area. Okay, we found out that this is what they do that raises our suspicious, suspicious even higher. And then I've instructed my teams, bring it home. I want to know what's in it.

I think that they are hiding the filthiest secrets of Iran bring it home. Two years later, we did. Okay, it took us a long time to conduct this kind of operation. I mean, a lot of troubles on the way. We've been in around hundreds of times. collecting information, recruiting people from within. I mean, know exactly what's happening in this kind of warehouse. When we brought the archive in, in January 2018, we've operated,

but it took a few months to get it out. It was not FedEx or right. Well, you talk about it was a half a tonne material. Half a thousand material. True. We didn't bring the hardware in, but we brought a lot of documents and disks, a lot of videos and hard disks, I mean, amazing stuff. We've been surprised ourselves.

So what did you find? We found out that there was, and there is still, massive activity that is in lights of a nuclear bomb, not like Iran has ever declared before. They have denied ever doing anything like the path or paving the path towards, nuclear bomb this is what they did but we found out that they did and now we have absolute evidence okay a lot of evidence that show that this what they did can you

give us some specifics on what they're doing absolutely I mean in in a nuclear in nuclear activity I mean the if you want to hide it I mean according to the Iranians you don't have and you can't work under any inspection of the IEA and we found out that they have done a lot of work and all of many sites that we had found out were not known to anyone, never declared, but a lot of activities happening there, right? And we did find many, many, many new sites that were conducting an actual and physical nuclear work without being declaring it to the IAEA. So in one hand, Iran is conducting kind of negotiations with the West, or with the West,

Eastern Russia, and signing an agreement saying, well, our intention is not, of course, for a nuclear bomb. I mean, this is all clean. On the other hand, now we see the reality. Iran is conducting kind of a discrete alternative job or an nuclear job that eventually create the path to the bomb. And this could not be allowed. That was the reason for us to go out with it.

Because in the intelligence philosophy, I mean, the use of intelligence will always be more valuable than the intelligence itself. meaning if you know something it's okay if you use it it's so much better if you know that there is a terrorist coming it's okay if you use it and you disrupt his terror activity that's very useful same goes for the iranian thing so this is what we did we have i mean prime minister did prime minister nathaniel had a very important um press release uh whatever i mean press conference and and he revealed that we have that i mean it didn't show everything but that was a kind of a shocking thing

to all negotiators. What we did, I did personally, is that I have ordered to copy it bit by bit, all of it, all the archive, and give it to one by one, to the head of the CIA at the time, to the head of the MI6 of the time, to the head of the DGSE at the time, the French, Mossat at the time, every one of them, and to the Russians, Chinese, and partially to the Germans, and to the IEA, and telling them, okay, this is the archive, we tell you nothing about that. Do you tell us what's in it. First, do you endorse it? Or do you think we faked it as the Iranian would claim? Everyone endorsed it, including the IEA. And this is the most important part. By the way, a few weeks later, President Trump exits the agreement saying, Israel has just provided us with you

materials that shows that Iran lied all the way to the agreement. And now we understand their truth or what they're really doing. They're not the reality that they were trying to create for us. And number two, everybody, everyone, all services, including the IA, endorsed completely what was in it and said, this is the problematic issues that has to be declared or not declared, cleaned or cleared in between us and Iran. Which brings us very rapidly to June of this year. Exactly. Because you just used a phrase that I found very interesting. He said, and is still.

Are you saying that the strikes that were conducted on Iran have not destroyed? fully they need to do. I think, I mean, fully destroyed is a very big word, I think, or it's so they're saying. So they still have nuclear sites that they're operating. I think that they have, we have to understand that the one hasn't given its motivation or agenda to, to reach a nuclear bomb. I do not believe them at all. Not, not the supreme leaders, as we falsely call him, declarations, that he says we're not interested in the bomb. Of course not. So what is that, sir? And if not, Let us visit it, right?

Because the sequence was before 13th of June is that the IAA had this board of governors I mean describing why Iran is violating all the inspectors, right, all the inspection activity inside Iran. And that was a very important decision that gave the light green light, okay, to that attack. Because President Trump said openly at the White House with the Prime Minister

sitting next to him, he said, there are three things that I do. I give the negotiations a chance, and I give it 60 days for the Iranistan gash with us. If an agreement will be achieved my way, we have an agreement. If not, we will attack. Israel

would lead the attack. And these three things eventually happened. Iran did not come clean to the IA demands. They never did, by the way, till today, sites that were destroyed at the attack, that we knew that they were conducting military, kind of military activity or military to-the-bomb activity,

that we had to take over, I mean, this kind of strike. And more than that, they said, since you don't come clean, with all evidence that we'd found at the archive, we're coming to get you. Now, if it was fully destroyed, to my knowledge, enrichment is not happening anymore in Iran right now. We may miss something.

As I told you, you don't know what you don't know. So they may hide more than what we have. There may be another site that we don't see. Maybe there is another activity that we don't know of. We know what we have destroyed. We know the people that we took away, unfortunately. We know what we've stopped, but we don't know what we don't know.

So what we know is that we have to conduct more penetrative operations inside Iran, to make sure that we know more about their current activity. And if we find any new activity or these activities that were never seized because of the attack, Iran do understand something very well now. That we can, it's an important sentence, that we can come again. Sure. Not only else, I mean, the B-2s of the Americans can come again too, right?

Well, I think that message probably quite clear to them now. I would think. A question I was going to ask you is, based on your time as director Mossad, based on your intelligence, based on what you know, why does Iran want a nuclear bomb? I think that they want to be immune from the region, maybe from the state of Israel or others. I mean, there are in a consistent conflict with their neighbors all the time. What does that mean being immune? Two very close neighbors do have nuclear bonds. Pakistan and India, very close countries, I mean, physically, I mean, to Iran.

And Israel. I don't know about that. I don't know about that. Okay. But Pakistan and India do know. I mean, they do have nuclear military capabilities. And since they are Shi'it and not sooner, all right, there are in a constant conflict with the region too. So they're very much worried about that, and this is number one.

Number two is to be immune when you are passive is one thing, but to be immune when you are so aggressive in the region, there's a different thing. Because the Iranian vision is the sheet crescent. If you have the map of the northern part of the Middle East, I mean, there is kind of a cut through Iraq, I mean from Iran, into Iraq, and they need to say, go it down to Lebanon, to create the vision, okay, what we call the sheet crescent. And there are many Shia there.

And I think that Iran is trying to create this kind of sheet crescent, if declared or not. And by the way, they've done that beautifully in Iraq by Kassan Soleimani at the time. Hach Deshafi, there was like a kind of a local Shiite force working for him for them under an absolutely supervision of the Iranian. They kept the Assad regime alive while conquering part of the country or the regime itself. And of course they've they've like dominated Lebanon through the Hezbollah in other Shi'id organizations. So I believe that all that map that you see creates a kind of a need to be immune or telling the world you can't touch me anymore. Now I have nuclear and you don't mess up with me. And I believe that for these two reasons, I mean, Iran has eventually conducted this kind of activity.

And it's really interesting in the book where you talk about how you actually, how much, Mossad, because people have got this image of Mossad, which is obviously incorrect, but you help. Incorrect in many ways. You know, there's a conspiracy for theories. We don't need to go into it because they're boring and tedious as far as I'm concerned. Okay. But you work a lot with British intelligence, helping Brits on the street, Brits in London, where we are now, remain safe. Can you explain that a little bit? Of course. I mean, the time, the time was ISIS time, Daesh, as we call it in Arby. ISIS was all over. And under the coalition, you had a kind of a 74 countries and we're working together, I mean, to defeat ISIS. That was the right thing to do. By the way, numbers, okay, I mean, the size of Daesh, presumably, was in between 40 to 60,000 terrorists, same size of Hamas. We're doing it alone. You did it with 74 countries or even more. The coalition that was formed by President Obama at the time

was trying to do the right stuff. Did or did Daesh was or was it defeated completely? I'm not sure, but this will be said sometime in the future. Nevertheless, I mean, Daesh or ISIS kept very important international body that they call international body. The international Daesh. There was a kind of a branch inside Daesh in Iraq itself and connected to Syria that was conducting terror activity

outside of the Levant. Right? ISIS is part of the Levant, right? ISIL, remember they called us? ISIL because of the Levant. The Islamic State inside the Levant. They were trying to conduct operations outside of the Levant,

meaning cutting out of Syria into Turkey. And now they are in kind of a very, very pleasant or much more comfortable arena for them to operate. And then going all the way down from Syria into Europe till the end of Europe.

I mean, it could be either Lisbon, London, or anywhere else. What I have understood is that there is this kind of international body that we can provide much more intelligence to our counterparts around the world, even if the terror activity is not really directed to either Israeli entities or to Jewish communities. By the way, that was happening too, of course, in Turkey, in Istanbul, against our synagogue, and the rabbi, and more than that. And then I have created a kind of a team that working intensively to create intelligence,

to create intelligence together with 8200, of course, and to bring it over, to bring it over to my counterparts in the places that we see, I mean, ICE has been interested in operating. And that have created a kind of a super strong bonding between me and the MI5 at the time. Of course, the MI6-2. I mean, both directors, I mean, for both organizations were, super good allies and super good friends and super good counterparts and we did understand together that there is kind of a common enemy that we have to fight together and I think that I can quote the former head of MI5 who told us at the Mossad in one of the

visits here and in in his headquarters that we deserve the Oscar for the I mean he said we don't have Oscar for for intelligence work but you deserve the Oscar for what you have done to disrupt terror activity inside England, inside the UK. And this is something very important, very meaningful. And this is what we did, I mean, for a long, long, long time. And that being the case, how severe are the threats to the UK from these terror cells? If you're someone who values free inquiry and independent thinking, which let's be honest is why you're probably watching trigonometry, our sponsor,

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How severe are the threats to the UK from these terror cells? I think that they're all the time there. I mean, being part of the West, like not being part of the radicalists, Islam, is a kind of a thing that has to be all the time taking care of. You are not acceptable. We are not acceptable. We're Jewish or Christians, whatever. We're not acceptable by these radicalists.

I mean, they think that we do not have the right to exist. I mean, not only as a country, but as human beings. And therefore, I mean, you see a lot of these activity happening all the time. I think that currently I'm not aware of the level of the risk or the level of the threat currently. I mean, these days, in whatever, I mean, September 25. But I think that the level of threats are always there and has to be very well looked upon

to make sure that they will not enter the country, will not enter the houses. I think that terror activity is still vivid. It's not a thing that died. It didn't die in Iran. By the way, the only country that I'm aware of that is conducting terror activity as a country, as a state. We know organizations, but we do not know many countries that are conducting terror activity outside of the country. So it can go against anyone.

And they did that, right? They did that all over, I mean, all over Europe, I mean, all over Latin America or even in the USA itself. and with help to disrupt these ones as well. So I think that the level of threat is still there, either from terror groups that are not liking what you do, I think that England or the UK should be looking at these because now when you're dealing so openly and maybe in a different manner with legal immigration or illegal immigration,

and you eventually target some countries, I mean, this could create kind of hate crimes, coming your direction. This is happening in the USA right now. I mean, you see what happened, unfortunately, I mean, to Charlie Kirk, I mean, a few days ago. I mean, in the USA, this is because of maybe opinions and maybe other threats. But I truly believe that in order to counter all that, you need a super high level of intelligence internationally. I'm not sure that the stretch will come always from the streets of Manchester, Liverpool, or whatever, I mean, Glasgow. I mean, I think it could come from

all over the world. I mean, inside your own country, it used to be worked upon very intensive, I mean, to my understanding. It's because, Yossi, as we look at the world now, and you're probably going to push back against this, but to a lot of people, the world looks ever more unstable, it looks ever more dangerous. We've gone from going from a unipolar world to a multipolar world. Do you think that we've become more unsafe in terms of terrorism, in terms of those types of threats with the world as it is now, as opposed to how it used to be. I'm not to that I will count on that. I think that the world is getting crazy. I mean,

in simple words, I see a different translation of hatred or hate crimes. Right? And again, I mean, going to Charlie Kipp, what is it? Okay, it's a young, killer, I mean, 22 years of age, that is taking an own decision. It does not belong to an organization. He does not belong to a country. I mean, it's not like he's being recruited by Hamas, Lisbala, or Iran. Or, or, you know, or, Anyway, I'll cook clasp, whatever it is. I mean, he is working for his own by his own, as far as I can understand it today. So this kind of, it's the instability or this kind of hate crimes, I mean, can happen, can have it all over.

And I think that, yes, we, if I may, as adults, and we have to make sure that our kids and youngsters are not being fed, but this kind of stupidity and hate trait, I mean, through the social media. I mean, social media become to be kind of a tool, I mean, to recruit people without being part of any organization anymore. I mean, you don't have to be, you don't have a salary, you don't have a card, you don't have a union. You just say, I believe in what they say, and I will act. And this is kind of a new threat that is being, I think, placed in our cities. In our region, in Israel, I think that when the war will be ended, and I hope that the war will be ended soon, I listen very carefully to what they say in the USA today, right?

Whitkoff has just announced that we may have, we may be have a kind of a solution soon, I mean, to end the war in Gaza. I hope that the war in Gaza will be ended when all these hostages will be eventually returned fully to the state of Israel, and this may be kind of a declaration I meant to the end of the war in Gaza. Meanwhile, we are defeating a lot of terrorists in our region.

Meanwhile, we are defeating a lot of the Iranian capabilities in their territory. Meanwhile, the army, the Syrian army does not exist anymore. Meanwhile, we conduct, I would say, quietly, maybe a kind of a potential peace treaty with other neighbors in the region, i.e. Syria, I.e. Saudi Arabia, sometime in the future. So in the end of the war, our territory, I believe, our region will be safer from these huge organizations. It is differently translated, I mean, to Europe or to you say, or even inside Israel, when you see this kind of less safe environment because of people do not like the others rather than being part of their organization. The polarization, as you correctly said, is huge. I mean, you don't, I mean, you see that.

I mean, polarized. I mean, all over. I mean, it is polarized in Israel, unfortunately right now. It is super polarized in the UK, I believe right now. polarized in the USA and in France and in Hungary and in Germany and all over. I mean, you see, I mean, movements that are taking extreme, I mean, either to the right or to the left. And I see more to the right. And maybe because of that. And because of, as I said, the wrongly activity inside the social media, we feel less safe. I mean, last. last holidays, I mean, our new years just ended, and I'd been to your synagogue here in London. I spent the holidays here in London, and the rabbi of the synagogue gave a lecture and said, this is the absolute extreme times that we are now facing, and the level of antisemitism,

is the highest since the World War II. That was his declaration. That's the way Jewish people filled down with the UK. And they're worried about themselves, living among the UK for hundreds of years, being part of your everything, integrating into the culture, the music, the history, the leadership,

where even a Jewish prime minister in England one day. Benjamin Disraeli. Absolutely. I mean, I was there, the audience, listening to the rabbi, saying that or declaring that, I think this is something that we have to think about. Why is it? Actually, the Jewish people, in 2025,

when the UK is declaring itself one of the strongest democracies on earth, okay, feel that way. Why is it? Is it organized terrorism? I don't think so. So what is it? And I think that is the sense

or that is the sentiment when the people do feel less safe all over the world. It is exactly the same spirit or the same sentiment that people do believe that maybe my neighbor doesn't like what I think. Maybe he believes that I belong to the different sector and therefore he's able to either create in hate crime. We see that a lot. I'm working a lot with other countries, I mean, to counter not only terrorism but anti-Semitism. And we see that rising. I mean, all the time.

What is it all about? Yes, I would say it's about the war in Gaza. I would say it's not really connected only to that. I mean, there are other elements that are happening, I mean, around us in our society that are breaching our life. And I think that it needs either a national or global thinking, I mean, to counter all that. And to tell the people, I mean, openly, yeah, we may be different. We may think differently. We may have different thoughts about different issues that may be even super important for you or to you, but we're not your enemies.

Well, we've been trying to make that point on this show for some time now, and I think Charlie Kirk's assassination really focused the minds for a lot of people on that, because as you say, a lot of young people have been badly, badly miseducated when it comes to these issues and the idea that people who disagree can have a conversation. And that's the way to adjudicate these disagreements. We saw this since Charlie's assassination. There was a guy who shot at a nice facility in America. killed three people he was allegedly trying to defend detainees in the facility. And it's one of the things that makes, I think, people feel extra unsafe, is that, and I had this realization another day, that all of this was possible always. The sniper rifles or a rifle with a scope, they've been there.

They've been there. They've been doing this every day for the last 200 years. And the only reason they haven't is we didn't have the culture and the technology and whatever else is going on to allow people to be brainwashed in this way and then to go and act them. Because the physical ability to do this has always been there and will be there, you know, provided the United States has the same rules around cancer that it does now. Absolutely. I totally agree with you and I cherish what you do here in your show. And I think that the one and a half millions of subscribers that you have here, and inshally, will have more. I mean, two million and more than that. I think that the messaging that you are providing the world is super important. I wish that everybody will do the same that you do. Why is it?

Because it's super important for the youngsters to listen to you. I mean, they've abandoned, I believe, like, proper, I mean, conservative TV channels, I mean, which is not using the same methods as the social media, but you in between. I think that you can make the corrections is needed. And they're needed. And they're needed so badly. I mean, you, you're, you know, You see it all over. And yeah, the bad influence is not behind the corner. It's in your living room. And when you are not controlling your youngsters,

and you are not controlling the kids, and you are not like forbidden something from happening or to being transmitted, because everything is in the open. You can do everything. I mean, in the web. I mean, CHAPT or any other questions that I want to ask. I mean, you can do and you can go into different directions, that everything that has to be controlled should must be controlled even better these days.

I totally believe in it. And I'm together with you. I'm absolutely worried about it. And I think it's very important on the final note because people, when they talk about Charlie Kirk, understandably, he was a political figure. He was a huge figure on social media. But let's put all of that to one side. Charlie was a father of two. He was a 31-year-old man. His wife is pregnant with their third child and he was murdered in front of her. That is the most important thing. I didn't know that. That is the most important thing.

It's not politics. It's not social media. It's not left, right or anything else. It's a young man lost his life. I totally agree with you. And I listen to her twice. A very impressive woman. The first time she said Charlie's worlds will be echoed even higher now,

number one, which is super important because it was trying to make a conversation, a lot of conflict. And this is the only way to solve things. even if we are different. And number two is she said, I forgive the killer. That needs, fool, a lot. I mean, from within, that shows who they are, exactly. And, I mean, sending her my best condolences and to strengthen what she is doing,

I would be very happy to help exactly messaging all that, saying that we need to correct all that with open conversation and not conflicting. And by the way, politicians are all over the world. I mean, not all of them. But part of them are part of it. They're trying to polarize us

so to win the next elections. Okay? If I'm telling you that he's so bad, I mean, you will never vote for him, even if he thought that he's not that bad. But now they are presenting you as whatever. I mean, the worst person on earth and no one will eventually dare

voting for you. And this is something that has to be stopped as well. I mean, I refer to that in one of the podcasts in Israel, I mean, recently. And I said that the thing that we believe that in order to win the other side's hearts, to bring people from one side to our side, to our direction, is to polarize us one against the other is super wrong. And I think that it can create more than different thoughts. It can create hate.

and then crime and then hatred on a certain level and then crime again. So it's a kind of a closed circle that will eventually I mean it doesn't let the youngsters or the others to go away from this circle because this is only what they consume and this consumption

I mean should be eventually corrected and and stopped in a way. I'm not sure if I have the entire method to do that but I think that you have. No one knows how. But anyway Anyway, Yossi, it's been great talking to you. We're going to ask you questions from our supporters in a second before we do. What is the one thing that we are not talking about at the global level, at the society level, that we should be. I think that we have to talk about unity.

And I think that what we, in light of what we have discussed, I mean, just recently, I mean, this is one thing that we have to be discussing in length and in depth is unity. I think that we are much more similar than it seems. I think that we have much more in common than it looks like. And I think that we have to prefer our unification rather than polarization. And this is something that we don't discuss enough, not in Israel, not outside of the state of Israel. Yes, you can't. Thank you very much. Head on over to Substack where we ask you or see your questions.

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