TRIGGERnometry - "I'm Controversial Because I Say Things a White Man Can't" - Calvin Robinson

Episode Date: March 17, 2021

Former teacher turned political commentator Calvin Robinson joins us in the studio. Join our exclusive TRIGGERnometry community on Locals! https://triggernometry.locals.com/  OR Support TRIGGERnometry Here: Paypal: https://bit.ly/2Tnz8yq https://www.subscribestar.com/triggernometry https://www.patreon.com/triggerpod Bitcoin: bc1qm6vvhduc6s3rvy8u76sllmrfpynfv94qw8p8d5 Buy Merch Here: https://www.triggerpod.co.uk/shop/ ADVERTISE on TRIGGERnometry: [e-mail] Join the Mailing List: https://www.triggerpod.co.uk/sign-up/ Find TRIGGERnometry on Social Media:  https://twitter.com/triggerpod https://www.facebook.com/triggerpod https://www.instagram.com/triggerpod About TRIGGERnometry:  Stand-up comedians Konstantin Kisin (@konstantinkisin) and Francis Foster (@francisjfoster) make sense of politics, economics, free speech, AI, drug policy and WW3 with the help of presidential advisors, renowned economists, award-winning journalists, controversial writers, leading scientists and notorious comedians. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello and welcome to Trigonometry. I'm Francis Foster. I'm Constantine Kishon. And this is a show for you if you want honest conversations with fascinating people. Our terrific guest today is a former teacher turned political commentator. Calvin Robinson, welcome to Trigonometry. It's an absolute pleasure to be here in person. Thank you very much. It's great to have you on, man. Listen, you've been doing the rounds lately and we like people who piss a lot of people off. And you, I think, right at the top of that list of the moment, you're doing well. But for anyone who isn't familiar with your background, your story, because as I was saying to you before, a lot of people will see you popping up and talking about some of the things we'll go on to talk about,

but they might not be familiar with your backstory. So tell us who are you, how are you, where you are, how have you ended up sitting here talking to us? Good question. So I think, first of all, you said I piss a lot of people off. And I find that fascinating, because to me, I'm just speaking normal, common sense, British values, the things that I was brought up understanding were what normal people think. That'll do it. I don't try to be extreme. I don't try to be extreme. I don't try to be a controvert or anything like that, I just kind of speak my mind. So my background is I'm from the Midlands, a small town called Mansfield in Nottinghamshire, former miners town, very working class background, white mother, black father. My father's family are from Jamaica. They came over here

during the Windrush generation. So I've got a lot of experience in what you call racism. I was trying to think of a better way of bringing it, but growing up, you know, as one of the first black families in a very white town. I experienced firsthand how bad racism can be in this country, which is what leads me quite often to discuss racism in public because I don't think a lot of the time what we're talking about is racism. There are a lot of other socioeconomic problems in our society, a lot of other causes going on and people see racism everywhere.

But I got involved in politics because essentially, you know, growing up in a single parent household after my parents split, my mother worked really, really hard all of her life to put, you know, food on the table for me and my sister. She's a role model, absolutely. But people around us weren't working as hard as my mother. You know, people were staying at home on benefits and being better off than my mother, who was, you know, she's a lecturer now. But she always worked at least two jobs. And I thought, something is wrong with our system.

If people are better off not contributing to society and people are kind of trapped almost at home, There's a system where people are dependent on the states. That's not what the welfare system should be about. In my opinion, it should be there as a safety net for people who really need it. But we should encourage people to go out and work and earn a living and get some meaning in their lives and contribute to wider society. And I don't think that's what we have at the moment. So that's what drove me into politics and into conservative politics, so to speak.

Growing up in a former miners town, it was probably quite controversial to have conservative opinions. people aren't necessarily fans of Margaret Thatcher up there, but a lot of them do think with small C values, even though they don't label it that way. And I think that's the same up and down the country. Most people in this country are normal, small C conservative people that don't want this woke agenda being shoved down their throats all the time,

which again is another thing that I talk about. But as I entered politics, I always said, I will never talk about race. I don't want to be that guy who goes up, that mixed race guy who gets shoveled on to talk about race all the time. But it's just such an issue. And I feel like, you know, we talk about privilege quite a lot. And one of my privileges is that I'm able to have this conversation

without people casting aspersions and naturally assuming that I'm racist, or for the most part, anyway, I'm able to say things that the average straight white male isn't allowed to say in this country anymore. So I feel like I'm duty-bound to just stand up and say them, which is the reason I stick my head above the parapet so often, and often get it chopped off. And you say you were able to say the things that are straight white male

is not able to say. So what are those things, Calvin? That, for example, somebody looked like me, wouldn't be able to say. Thankfully. In my voice. This isn't a systemically racist country, that this is a fantastic place to live, one of the best places in the world to live, actually. It's the most tolerant, diverse, inclusive country in the world. And that's why people choose to live here and people come here and make a success of themselves. And that's fantastic. We should celebrate that. But instead, we focus on the negatives. And we look at our society in every single problem, we pin it down. to race these days and it's not. Like I said earlier, I've experienced real racism. I'm not

discounting people's personal lived experiences, but what I'm saying is if you look for racism everywhere, of course you'll begin to see it. And I have a real problem with, you know, the way we're teaching young people that everything is racist and everyone is racist. As a former teacher, you know, I see all the time this, this self-perpetuating myth of white supremacy, you know, telling young people that if you're black or of an ethnic minority back you are going to have hurdles to overcome. There are barriers that people are putting up in your life because of the color of your skin. But isn't that true? Isn't that true even in the way you've described your own story? You talk about growing up in a mixed race family in the Midlands being the

victim of racism or whatever, experiencing race. Maybe victim is the wrong word. But that would have been a barrier in your way, surely someone being rude to you or offensive or, you know, causing problems at school or whatever it might have been. Would that not have been an extra hurdle that your white classmates wouldn't have had to deal with? No. And it depends where we're talking about. So it wouldn't have been an extra hurdle because as much as people were offensive to me and caused me upset, that wasn't people being discriminated against me. So it wasn't, when I went to apply for a job, they were saying no, because you're brown. That was people calling me a paki in the street. And that's purely ignorance on their part

because that is the wrong derogatory term for a start. But also it doesn't mean, just because I got racial abuse because I was one of the few brown people in a white town doesn't mean that white people can't get racially abused too. And I work in London schools, for example, where white kids tend to be in the minority, actually. And I see a lot of the racism that goes on in London is towards white people these days. So anyone can be a victim of racism. And we've got to get back to the reclaim our language. You know, racism means discrimination or prejudice against someone because of their ethnicity. It doesn't mean a power struggle between black people and white people. That's, you know, That's what the work more of tried to readjust our language to kind of win the battle by default.

We've got to take the terms back and put meaning behind our words again. And I think a lot of white people at the moment are experiencing racism. I think anti-white racism is the most popular racism after anti-Semitism at the moment. It's so fashionable to be anti-white. And it's acceptable. You can talk about the white man as much as you like and no one will blink an eyelid. No one will raise an eyebrow. It's completely okay.

And I don't get why that is. We talk about, you know, institutional racism and black people being oppressed. I don't feel oppressed. Yes, I experienced racism as a child at points, but in my adult life, I don't feel oppressed. In this metropolitan city, this capital that we live in, I don't feel oppressed. But I do see oppression all around me all the time. And that is people oppressing the white man. You're not allowed to speak up if you're white.

You're not allowed to have an opinion if you're white. You're not allowed to engage in these conversations if you're white. How is that not oppression? And also we talk about the fact that, you know, we live in this liberal, you know, metropolitan bubble. But why is it acceptable, Calvin, that if you deviate from the standard rhetoric as a mixed-race bloke, as a black guy, and you say, well, I disagree with this. Why is it then acceptable for somebody to use racial epithets against you? Well, exactly, because I'm preaching for equality. I hate being the victim, and I don't like that word, but the victim of racism or experiencing racism.

I don't want anyone to experience racism, whether they're black, white, Asian, doesn't matter to me. That's what equality means, that nobody should experience that. But the moment I stand up and say that, I get accused of being a race traitor, I get called Uncle Tom, a coon, a house nigger, all of these horrible derogatory racist terms. And people, again, think I'm fair game

because I'm not subscribing to their approved narrative. And it's very much a form of control. Like, they don't feel like they control me. Therefore, I am against them. Therefore, I'm a bad guy. can call me whatever the hell they like. It baffles me how someone can consider themselves an anti-racist while being racist towards people like me. And who are the types of people who make these claims and who say these things to you? Do they come from a standard part of the

argument, political spectrum, race, gender, etc? Well, it tends to be people on the hard left, and quite often it tends to be other people of ethnic minority status, so other black and Asian people. Mostly it's other black people that call me things like House Negro, but I have been called that recently by a Bangladeshi woman, which is fascinating for me because that is clearly then racism, but it was still accepted. And so it comes from this, you know, stepping away, like I say, from the approved narrative. It is the establishment's opinion that we need to protect ethnic minorities, and I get where they're coming from. That's a very one-intentioned thing to want to protect people, but I think it's patronising. I think we need to treat all people equally. We don't need to treat

people in a special way because they happen to have brown skin. And that's where it all comes from. I think this perceived racism, this, you know, if people don't happen to get where they want to be in life, they'll blame it on systemic racism. If people don't get a job, they'll blame it on racism. If people don't, well, if people don't get anything at this point, people are living very entitled lives, I think. And it's easy to pass on that excuse. But I don't think it's their fault. I don't think people are thinking, you know, oh, I'll blame that on racism. I think they've been taught this from a young age. And, you know, we've talked about this in the past. And I know you've had other guests, because I was a governor at Michaela school, for example,

Catherine Berberson, which she founded. But schools like that. And, you know, while I was in school, I've, I tried to teach all young people that it doesn't matter where you come from. It doesn't matter what your background is, what your race is. We're all here together. We're British. That's a thing that unites us. That's our community. And if you work hard, keep your heading your books, you'll be able to make a success of your life. Whereas a lot of other schools, especially in the state sector in this country, are teaching young people that actually, you know what, you're a victim. Like I said earlier, you've got hurdles to overcome. You've got barriers. And that is self-perpetuating, because the more you tell young people that, the more they'll start to believe it. And on the other

end of the spectrum, we're telling white kids that, you know, you're racist. You need to have unconscious bias training because whether you're overtly racist or subconsciously racist, you are racist because you're white and all white people are racist. And that's a given at this point. How are we accepting that as a given fact? Anyone can be racist, anyone can be a victim of racism. That's a fundamental basic fact that we need to get back to. Why is it so taboo for somebody of your ethnicity to be conservative? In this country. So where my father's family are from in the Caribbean. Most people are conservative. You know, the Labour Party over there is a conservative party.

Where is this? Sorry, might have just on it. Jamaica, yeah. So my father's family from Jamaica, the Labour Party over there is a conservative party, despite the weird name. Most people in the Caribbean and most people in Africa are small sea conservative. It's just in this country and in America actually that the left have taken ownership of BMEs of black and ethnic minorities. I don't know why I use that term.

I hate that homogenous term. But they've taken ownership of us to take control over us. They've said if you don't vote for us, you ain't black or we will help you unleash your potential. That's the Biden and the Corbyn message. That is, you know, you are one of us. We're here to protect you. And they do that on purpose because they want our vote, whereas they're not looking after our interests.

And, you know, I am a small sea conservative because I believe that the family unit is the basic fundamental beacon of society. And once we lose the family, we have a breakdown in our systems, in our way of life. And that's why we're seeing such rise in knife crime in London. That's why everything is falling apart because we've lost faith and we've lost family. And those are the two fundamentals of our society

that we've kind of let the left break apart. But that's the reason I am a small seat conservative. But saying that, for some reason, sets me apart from the left and where they perceive black people to be or where they think we should be. I don't know. That BME term is interesting, isn't it?

Because I often think it's just another way of just saying those darkies over there, isn't it? Really. Well, it is. It's another term for non-whites. Again, it's pinning people against each other. It's divisive, it's toxic. It's saying you are either white or you're not.

You're one of us or you're not one of us. And if you're not one of us, we need to help you, we need to support you, we need to patronize you. And that's not true. But think of what I'm getting at, is think of the massive amount of variety or that word diversity within that group. The idea that you can put Indian people with Pakistani, they're fighting a fucking nuclear war over there, right? They're not the same. They don't have the same views or values or attitudes or heritage or education or any of And then you take Afro-Caribbean people like yourself, and then people who come first-generation

immigrants from Africa, the differences between those groups are sometimes bigger than the differences between a white British person and a black British person. A hundred percent, but could it be more diametrically opposed? So again, from my education perspective, we see black African children excelling throughout school, through primary school, through secondary school, they're doing a lot better than every other demographic pretty much, especially white British kids and black Caribbean kids. British kids and Black Caribbean kids are almost at the bottom of the scale. It's only travellers and gypsies that are actually below them. And black African kids are twice as likely

to go to university. So it's not a case of systemic racism, because if it is, people are picking apart black kids and saying, or we'll treat the African kids different to the Caribbean kids. I don't think most people would even see the difference, to be honest with you. I think what's happening here is a difference in values. And again, it comes down to family and faith. And African families tend to still have their faith and tend to still see the family is important. And we've had a breakdown, unfortunately, in the Caribbean communities of family. We have a massive issue with fatherlessness. And there's a lack of faith there these days as well, which we wouldn't see if we went, if we went back to the Caribbean, we'd see a lot more faith than we do in Caribbean, British Caribbean

families, which is a shame. And that's the same with white British. The family issue is what's happened, the breakdown in the family and the breakdown in faith. Can I just say before you ask your question, I think we're setting some kind of record for the number of racial slurs that have been answered in the course of this conversation. I mean, yeah, it's, it is. Don't you come out with one name? We're allowed. Well, my mum's brown.

Anyway, that's not going to help me. It's not, it's not, it's not a good. Look how pink you are already. I know. It's just not going to help. It's equality. If we're allowed to say something, he's allowed to say something. If he's not allowed to say something, neither are we.

Go for, go for. My mother's from the Caribbean. She's from Latin America. Where's my support? I've always wanted to do this show by my I'm going to go for it. Where's my... Anyway,

can you get cancelled any further at this point? Probably not. Let's try it, let's find out. Calvin, here's the thing. Do you think that there have been some scars inflicted upon the British Caribbean community because they came here during wind rush, they endured that racism,

that inequality, that open hostility, whilst a lot of first generation, for instance, African families who come here in 2010, 11, and they're not going to be exposed to that as or as much of that because we're quite literally a different society than we were back then. It's an interesting perspective, but I don't think it's true. I think when my grandparents came over here, they really, really relished the opportunity to come over here during Windrush.

They celebrated it. They wanted to become Brits, and they were proud to be Commonwealth citizens and all of that. And yes, they experienced a lot of racism, but we have made progress. I often say, you know, my father experienced a lot less racism than his father, and I experienced a lot less than him. It doesn't mean we didn't experience any, and it doesn't mean that we don't need to still work on it,

but we've come a long way. And I think the generation after me, the young kids that we see today, especially in inner city schools and London schools, where they are no longer the minority, and they're no longer experiencing racism, especially not on a level of people from the Windrush generation. What we're seeing is a loss of identity. So, for example, my grandparents,

while they were proud to become British, they were also proud to be Jamaican. And my father, being born here, he's proud to be half British, half Jamaican. Whereas we're getting to the third and fourth generations now where people are like a case of what is my identity How should I identify and what we've what we're missing is you know in schools For example we don't promote British values the teaching standards say don't undermine the British values and I think if we promoted them and gave something for people to latch on to Then they'd have that sense of belonging that every single human being needs but because they don't have that

They get and they're getting told left right and center that the color of their skin is the core of their identity They're like, so what does that mean? What does it mean to be black British or black Caribbean British this day and age? It doesn't really mean anything because Caribbean people integrated into British society very well. There is no segregation there whatsoever. Whereas in America, which is where they often look, there's a completely different environment. African Americans are a community and there was a lot of segregation in America and they had a lot of race rights and they only just reached a level of equal. There's just about reaching a level of equality, whereas we've had that.

So when our young people are looking to American culture, hip-hop culture, African-American culture, all of that, and taking it on board, they're addressing issues and seeing issues that don't necessarily affect us. And we saw that with Black Lives Matter over last summer where, you know, kids in London were fighting against police brutality. We don't have police brutality in this country. They're saying, you know, take your knee off my neck and, you know, get rid of police guns and very few police have guns over here. You know, there's no issue with police racism in the UK. It's completely a case of us importing US drama. And that's because our kids are so lost and they don't have an identity. It's interesting that you keep coming back to British valleys. And I'm working on my first book.

And it will be largely about West needing to stand up for itself and remember what its values are. But we were discussing it the other day, actually. And you are probably second maybe to Catherine Berbel Singh who you used to work with. you are our two most patriotic guests, I would say, in the entire history of the show, in terms of being openly talking about, you know, British, you know, Catherine talks about having a British flag at the school and teaching kids British values and reminding. And I think that really, as we become more and more a multi-ethnic society,

if we don't do that part of it, oh, that is not a good path to go down, is it? 100%. And you've put the nail on the head right there with a multi-ethnic. society. That's what we should be striving to achieve, a multi-ethnic society, not a multicultural society. We've kind of diluted our own values under the premise of inclusivity. We don't really understand what inclusivity means. And we kind of think it means, okay, everyone is welcome and we'll take all your values on board and dilute our own because we don't want to offend you. We don't want to be seen as anti-whatever you are. So we'll take your values on board. And we've lost our own

sense of value. We've lost British values along the way because we've been so afraid of offending people and so afraid of affirming our own values. And we need to, like you say, stand up for our own values again and say, yeah, it's fine to be proud to be British. This is a fantastic place to live. Like I said, this is why so many people are coming to live here. It's an amazing country with an amazing history and good values. You know, and when people say, so what does that mean? What are British values?

And I say, well, whatever you think they mean, it is an intangible thing on one level. But on the other level, the government did try to pin them down. And they said, you know, tolerance of people of other faiths and non, democracy, the rule of law. And these are things that we celebrate. And these are things that, again, people come back at me and say, well, but Calvin, they're not exclusive to Britain. And I'm like, well, no one's saying they're exclusively ours, but I can certainly name a few countries that wouldn't celebrate these values.

And that's why they're so important to us. We helped spread parliamentary democracy around the world. And again, people will talk about the empire and say, oh, we were the evil British empire. But there's so much, we've lost a sense of context, and we've lost a sense of balance. There was so much good that came out of that as well. Even me saying that, I'm probably going to get cancelled just for saying that now.

It's absolutely ridiculous that you can't have a balanced conversation. But, you know, we help spread parliamentary democracy. We spread Christianity. We help spread schools and hospitals and charities. And the English language, for goodness sake, a lot of good that came out of it. But also a lot of atrocities that we should absolutely address and we should teach history holistically. I'm not denying that.

But let's not try and paint everything in a binary picture of black and white and automatically stick with the negative. You know, it's usually our intellectuals as well that are so quick to denounce British values and British culture as a bad thing for the world. And, you know, Western values as well. And just say, the West is evil and bad. You're like, well, not really. Not relatively speaking.

And not if you look at what's happening in the rest of the world. And even this last year or so, with what's happening with the coronavirus, people are afraid to criticize China in any way, shape, or form. But if they did anything, if we did anything, rather, like what they're doing over there with the Ugoan Muslims, the atrocities, the genocide. If we did anything like that, they'd be so quick to denounce it. So why are they afraid of looking outwardly? Look, I spend a lot of time telling you what's wrong with the world,

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green mattress.com slash trigger. It's cultural relativism. It's their culture. Chinese people are supposed to put each other in camps. That's how these people think. But I think it's patronising. Of course it's patronising. It's because they're foreign.

They don't understand things like we do. They're not to our level. They're not as liberal as well. So we can't expect that of them. No, absolutely we can. Of course we can. We should expect every country to have, you know, a basic level of human rights and decency towards other people. Unless we do trade with them.

In which case, you crack on, mate. We still want your cheaply made crap over here. Calvin, let me ask you this, moving on slightly, although it's a similar subject. And I've asked this question of dozens of our guests and all have given their own version of it. But you're someone who's been very particularly coming from the educational background that you do. You're someone who seems to me to have a very kind of precise and nailed down definition of this. Can you explain to an ordinary person who's just picked up a newspaper and they're reading about CRT for the 73rd time without really knowing what it is? And frankly, I put myself in that camp. I think about these issues very carefully.

But if you ask me, Constantine, can you define what CRT is in two sentences on live television? I'd probably struggle, right? So first of all, before we get into talking about it, what is critical race theory? So critical race theory is the idea that white people have some kind of privilege and black people are naturally oppressed based on the color of their skin. That's the inner sentence. but then people will come back and say, no, what we're actually saying is that, you know,

you won't be discriminated against because of the color of your skin if you're white. That's what white privilege means. And even that isn't true because, like I say, I've worked in a lot of London schools and I've seen a lot of white kids be bullied because they're white. You know, if you take that to a wider issue, we can address the grooming gangs. Well, we've had a survivor of that on the shirt.

So it absolutely is possible for anyone to be discriminated against based on the color of their skin. That is what racism is. So I don't think white privilege is a thing. I think white working class kids and white working class people in particular have been left behind in this country and almost forgotten about because it's unfashionable to address the situation. If you say you want to support white working class kids or white working class people in general, you are going to be perceived as a racist. What do you have against brown kids? Why don't you want to help the black kids or the Asian kids?

And it's not about picking who you want to help. It's about looking at who's not doing well and trying to level the playing field. and we do that by introducing equality and stop treating brown and Asian kids differently, stop treating black kids differently based on the colour of the skin. That's the only reason white kids are left behind. It's not because we're not addressing them, it's because we're too busy addressing other people.

If we treated all kids equally across the board and raised our standards for everyone, all kids will thrive. And that's the same in society, same issue in society, that we've seen schools. And why is it that suddenly, you know, I understand to a certain extent these ideas become popular in academia, but why is it they get filtered down into our education,

system. We've got enough of a battle trying to get kids to read and write and be actually literate by the time they come out of school. Why are we filling their heads with this stuff? It's because well-meaning individuals want to make a difference and they want to be seen to be doing the right thing on one level. And on some level, there's people that want to be virtue-sickling and showing everyone else how much of a good person they are. And the way to do that is to say that you are an anti-racist or to say that you believe that black people are oppressed in this country and that this country is systemically racist. But if you ask anyone, in what way is this country systemically racist? In what way are you held back by the color of your skin? Very rarely will you get

an answer. People will say, well, the NHS is racist or the police are racist or education is racist. I'm like, okay, give me a prime example. And I like people to give me examples in education just because that's my field, but they never ever can. And the only thing they ever say to me is, well, I look in the textbooks and I don't see people that look like me. But that's just illogical because this is a country that's been predominantly white throughout its entire history. Of course, most people in British history will have white faces. But that doesn't mean you can't learn from them unless you are racist and you can only learn from people that look like you. That's quite an interesting take. And then people say, but I want representation. I want to

see more people that look like me. I respond, well, be that person then. Be that role model for other people. If representation is important to you and you are, you know, superficial diversity is an important issue for you. Then be the brown face that's doing, you know, computer science or whatever field you want to go into and be a role model for other people. But I don't think superficial diversity is important. I don't think we should be focusing on the skin color of people. I think we should be looking at what they've achieved and what they've brought to our society. People like Tim Berners-Lee, who invented the Internet, the World Wide Web,

people like that, we should be celebrating as British icons. And we're not able to because he happens to be white. So we have to look for someone who's brown. And in education, again, we talk about replacing people like Mozart on the curriculum with Stormsy. Mozart who happened to influence music, the way we compose music, the way we think about music for decades. Stormsley, who has a popular song, shut up, shut up, rude boys, shut up. Not quite on the same level, is it? But he happens to be brown and popular.

So, of course, let's put him on the curriculum. To me, it's bonkers. And this is the fundamental problem with what's going on in society at the moment. It's all topsy-turvy. And I think most people see the world the way that we do in a normal way. But we've been taken over almost by the woke mob, the virtue signals who want to be seen to be doing the right thing and want to be seen to be good people in the eyes of each other. And they are the vocal minority. And this is why, you know, at the beginning you said to me, you piss a lot of people off.

And I'm genuinely just talking normal common sense values as far as I see. I'm not trying to be controversial. So. Well, it's the same with us. We don't even necessarily advocate any specific set of values. We just talk to different people about them and we piss people off and doing it. But I was going to ask you, do you think your mixed-race background informs some of your views where you have, you know, your mum is white?

So when people talk about the white people being the oppressor, you're not thinking about a generic category. You're thinking probably, I would imagine, of your mum. And you're going, well, my mum's not going around oppressing people. In fact, she raised me. Do you know what I mean? Does that inform your thoughts on this issue? It does sometimes.

It's interesting because being mixed race means I'm not white. therefore in most people's eyes I'm just black. So people disregard half of my heritage, half of my background, half of my upbringing, half of my skin color, which I found to be quite a level of racism actually, in that why, if you're not 100% white, are you therefore by default black?

Yeah. So it does affect my worldview in that being mixed race, I have a lot of people in my family that are black and a lot of people in my family that are white. on both sides of experienced racism, which is why I know that anyone can experience racism. But also, it affects me that a lot of black people who are racist towards me

are kind of upset on some level because I'm not 100% black and I'm not 100% white. I don't know. I think bisexual people have the same issue. They have a lot of animosity towards... I love the way you look to you. But this is what I hear anyway.

And I think it's like, people want so badly to cataly. to put you in a box. If you don't fit in that box, they don't know how to deal with you and they see you as a problem, something to handle. I'm not a problem. But I think if we really, really push this British values thing and move the conversation away from skin colour, like Morgan Freeman says, stop talking about it.

That's the way to get rid of racism. Eventually, I reckon we'll probably end up being beige anyway as society progresses and it will become less of an issue. But yeah, I think it has on some level, but not on a conscious level. affected the way I think about it. Have you ever been abroad and felt out of place because you didn't speak the language? No, because I voted Brexit. Brexit means Brexit.

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It's a very interesting point, you make. So I weirdly classify myself as mixed race. Mother's Latin American grandfather was an Arab. You know, I looked like my father, I got my father's Irish skin. But one of the questions and one of the things and one of the things that coming from two completely different cultures, and I don't know if you've experienced this,

is that you never truly feel neither one nor the other. You always feel somehow on the outside, because you are always, you can connect with one culture, but there's always something a little bit different because of the experiences that you've had with another culture. Do you ever find that? No, because I see my culture as British entirely. I'm half white, half black, but 100% British,

because my mother's British, my father's British. Yes, they have, they have different elements of culture into it, but my culture is British. So my mother's, for example, from the Midlands, she'll say, eh, up me, do curate, and we have certain dishes up there and certain customs up there that you wouldn't see in London. That's part of her culture.

Whereas my father, he has, you know, Jamaican dishes, and he'll say, Watawama, you would. No, he wouldn't say that. But you know what I mean? So they have different dialects. they have different recipes, dishes, different food types, different cultural norms, but

bring those together, what unites them both is Britishness, in my opinion. So I don't have a problem with my identity. That is the core of my identity after my faith, and everything else comes secondary to that. And you talk about your faith, and you're a Christian. Yeah. And why

do you think your faith is so important to you? So many reasons, but I think what faith does is it takes us out of ourselves. And I think we've got a very selfish society at the moment. And Christian values and British values used to be about service and duty and community and family and putting others before yourself. And I think we've lost all of that and all of that stuff would really help us at the moment, actually. People are always striving for personal happiness, whatever makes them happy as an individual.

And I'm all for people living individual lives and being individuals. but we do have to at some point consider society if we want it to survive and if we want it to be meaningful. And do you think part of the crisis that we're seeing is actually the fact that we don't have faith anymore? We don't have a belief in God? 100%. So if we look at what's happening, for example,

with Extinction Rebellion, Black Lives Matter, all of these really extreme hard left groups, people are latching onto them because they don't have a faith anymore, they don't have a religion. But that leaves people with a void. They need a belief structure. And if we look at what these things are doing, they are like cult.

You know, Extinction Rebellion have vestments and all these blood cult things that they do in the streets. And Black Lives Matter have their chance. And they are filling a void for people that people need something spiritual in their lives. And if you don't see it in your faith, then you reach out wherever it is being given. And at the moment, it's these extremist left-wing groups that are saying, come join us. We'll give you a sense of belonging. We'll give you a sense of purpose. And the God that they worship is themselves.

And that's rather unfortunate. Well, speaking of bringing people together, there used to be an institution that was designed in this country to some extent to do that, to create a common culture, you know, in terms of comedy, politics. Look at the ways of responding to it. I'm talking, of course, about the BBC. You're not a fan of the BBC. I used to be, you know, when John Benjamin talked about churches and Kenneth Clark did his civilization. and when the BBC used to put out content that no one else could do.

But now they're not doing that anymore. They've become a commercial entity in and of themselves. They're not producing anything that any other station couldn't produce. I don't know, mate. Some of that work comedy, you have to get taxpayers to pay for that shit. It's a good point.

What are they doing that's unique? They're supposed to inform, educate, how are they doing either of those things? BBC World Service, you can argue? The World Service is great, but is that enough to pay 160 pounds a year for? I think what we need to do is look at what the BBC does well and enable them to do that without us having to pay a TV tax.

So the remit used to work when they first came about they were one of what they were at the early station at the time, but then they became one of early two or four stations. It made sense for things to work the way they did. But now we're paying the BBC for the privilege or watching any other live television, whether the BBC's had an input in that or not. That doesn't make logical sense

me first and foremost, but then the content that the BBC does put out is entirely woke. You know, everything is about social justice issues. Everything is about lecturing the British public on how they should think, what they should be saying, what they shouldn't be saying, what's no longer appropriate to think or say or do. And I don't think people like that. I don't think people like being lectured to by one particular perspective at all times. There's no balance there. There's no conversation or debate. It is just this is our view. This is the appropriate approved view. that everyone should be subscribing to, and if you're not, you're a bad person. And that's why we're seeing woe curry everywhere,

because it's perpetuated from BBC, from Channel 4, from my TV, all of mainstream media is on it at this point. But the difference is that we have to pay for the BBC. And look, okay, Calvin, here is a reason why I still want the BBC to exist, okay? We need something in the centre, which brings people from left, from right, conservatives, libertarian, all the rest of it, where they can come, where we can share ideas, where we can talk,

Because otherwise, if we don't have that, then what we end up with is America, with people on their individual little stations talking to each other, we create echo chambers, we're just going to exacerbate the polarization in society, and ultimately, arguably, bring the downfall society, because we won't be able to communicate. I mean, you're right on so many levels, but I don't think that's what the BBC does. What it does bring people together from the left and right, in that, you know, as part of our defund the BBC campaign, we hear from people on the right saying, The BBC is so left wing, and people on the left saying,

the BBC is so right wing, and it's not. It's just metropolitan, liberal elite. They have their own political perspective, and it annoys everybody. So they do bring people together in that respect, but they don't bring us together for debate or conversation. How many right-wing comedians do we see on the BBC? Jeff Nolcott?

Yeah. This is the problem, isn't it? I mean, in fairness, that argument is slightly more complicated than that, because neither Francis or I are a right-wing, but... Depends who you ask, man. depending. No, no. According to some people, we're fine, right?

Of course we are. Just because we talk to you, mate. That's how that works. But there are not many right-wing comedians, and that's... That's nonsense. There's loads on YouTube and on Twitter and Instagram. I'm not saying they don't exist. I'm saying if you look at the body of the comedy industry,

the vast majority of comedians are not right-wing. And so if you have fewer people, then you're going to end up with fewer people making it to the top because statistically, there's going to be a small percentage who are good enough. So the reason you don't see a lot of right-wing comedians on the BBC, partly, but only partly, and this is important, it's a new one's point, is because there's not a lot of them around. There's not a lot of them around. Having said that, what I would argue is the BBC is definitely biased against them as well, and it's biased against

other people who are just simply not woke. That's, to me, more the drawing line. But I think just in the same way that we should be careful when we talk about representation in terms of race, we should also be careful in that. Just because there's some kind of disparity in outcome doesn't mean there's discrimination going on necessarily. So I think that's an important point to make.

You know, I'm sort of with Francis, but also with you, because I feel very woke about the BBC and I don't care about reality, I just care about how I feel. And I just have that hope that it could be the vehicle that brings people together. My concern is actually technology. Young people don't watch the BBC. So is it even going to be around 50 years from now? Do young people not watch the one show?

There's so much to break down in that. I do want to address the diversity thing. Yeah, let us talk about that. Just because I'm not saying there should be quotas of how many right-wing people are on the BBC. I don't believe in diversity quotas. I think they're fraud. But what I'm saying is they're addressing diversity in other ways that are making the issue worse.

So they're spending £100 million a year on making sure they have more brown faces, more brown faces that think alike. To me, that's a problem at the same time as charging us all extra for our licence fee, at the same time as now charging over 75s for their licence fee. So they're willing to splash out money

on superficial diversity that makes no difference while at the same time chasing us for money. But what's your second point about, You want them to exist? Absolutely. In theory. I like the theory.

It's like communism. It's great in theory. Is it, though? I'm all for the BBC existing. I'm not saying it needs to be gone completely. I'm saying we need to loosen the reins. If they want to be woke, let them be woke, but don't make me pay for it. So maybe they should have a different business model where they get revenue on a global marketplace

or something. I don't know. If they think their content is worthy enough, people will pay for it, surely. I don't know why we're forced under threat of prosecution to pay for it. I totally understand that argument and we hear it all the time and I totally get it. I just worry, Calvin, that once you get rid of it, you're crossing the Rubicon and there's literally no way back. My hope is like all this woke shit settles down 10 years from now. And then the BBC kind of goes, actually, we've got it a bit wrong.

Let's actually make content that everyone can enjoy. Do you know what I mean? Like you can sit with your, you know, slightly racist grandfather and your woke pink hair. 18 year old and they can all enjoy a show together. Do you know what I mean? I know what you mean. I just don't know if we're heading in that direction. We're not heading in that direction. Absolutely not. There's a new nonsense every day, isn't there? There's a new Rokey every single day. I could sit here and list them. I'm sure you guys could. But unless I see us heading in the other direction, I don't see anyone taken as in the direction at the moment. I don't think the government's

really addressing the woke issue, the cultural wars, if you want to call them that. I don't know who is. We are. It's left down to the three of us. Well, exactly, but this is the problem. Are we big enough to take on the BBC and mainstream media? So maybe we need to do something about it. Do you think that defunding it is the way to go? Do you think that is a way to solve this particular problem? Money is always the way to solve a problem, isn't it?

Cut off their purse strings and they'll stop doing whatever it is. It's like these universities in America that said they were institutionally racist, and Trump said, okay, well, if you're racist, we'll stop funding you then. And all of a sudden, okay, what are you? What we meant was, yeah, it's the same with that. I think if the BBC wants to be completely woke, let them do it, but don't make us fund it. And then if we change their revenue model, I'm sure we'd quite quickly see them change their programming attitudes as well. But if you look at most broadcasters, you've just given an example yourself.

I mean, Channel 4, which is partly funded. You've got ITV, which is, you know, which is funded through advertising. You said it's woke. Netflix is, I mean, woke as hell. So is Amazon. You know, if we defunded, you. if we defund it, is that really going to solve anything? Yeah, but they're competing with each other, aren't they?

And I think we need to diversify that talent pool. So I don't think it's that the BBC is institutionally woke. I don't think they have a organised system of wokenness. They just tend to employ people who think, like, themselves. That's the problem. We need to somehow diversify that, and we need to hit them where it hurts in order to wait them up to let them know that that's an issue.

Like you say, young people aren't watching the BBC. They're tuning to Netflix or they're on YouTube, or watching TikTok or Snapchat these days. And so they're chasing an audience that doesn't exist. Elderly people tend to watch the BBC. And now they're turning off because none of the content applies to them. It's not appropriate. It doesn't represent them.

I mean, the inefficiency of the BBC. I go on the BBC frequently. I'm sure you do as well. I've done work for the BBC. You don't. No. But my experience there is it's full of well-meaning people who just they have a certain mindset

and they just think, oh, we'll get Constantine in because he's a weirdo who has the wrong opinion. And we need one of him for every 200 people who think like us. So every now and again, they'll object someone with a different opinion. But broadly speaking, they're sort of just like, it's that diversity thing that they left to bang on about. They just, they have a mindset,

and they want other people who think like them. So it's not some kind of evil cabal like people try and make it out to be, but the incentives aren't there. the financial part of it as well is sort of worrying because you're charging taxpayers and that money then becomes completely differently treated because I've been involved on things on the BBC and you're going, I'm not sure anyone listened to this. Maybe it's because I was on, I don't know, but, or anyone's watched this or anyone's engaged with this. And so I'm sure you get a lot of money

being wasted and it's taxpayer money. And that's a concern, isn't it? Absolutely. It's concern. The few times I have been on the BBC, like you say, I've been the old one out and you have you have like a panel of five people that are completely woke and you have yourself on the corner and they paint you out as an extremist for having normal views. That's a problem. But yes, absolutely the money is the core issue there in that they're wasting it on, you know, these big, well-paid celebrities and they say we have to compete with the private sector. It's like, do you really, because the BBC is a, you know, it's a global institution. It's got a respectable reputation. A lot of people want to go work there anyway. You don't have to pay these

million-pound salaries in order to get talent. So they're wasting our money on talent. They're wasting our money on diversity quota, rubbish. You know, just waste left, right and centre. So if we say to them, you have to find a different way of funding yourself going forward. We're not going to let the public pay you through a television tax over threat of prosecution. You're going to have to find a new model. Let's see how that would change things.

And what would you say about when people go, look, the BBC still makes innovative content? You know, you look at your Attenborough as a classic example. You did have to pick a 97-year-old guy for this example, didn't you? Yeah, I did. Yeah. I mean, he's an old white man. He has privileged, Calvin. I realize that.

But what, I mean, it's brilliant, isn't it? Who does documentaries like that? Netflix. Anyone can do a documentary like that. Anaya, who you've had on here, has created a good documentary that's coming out this summer. Lots of people are doing it. I don't think you need to be public, public, funded in order to create something unique. You know, Channel 4 have a remit to create things that

are different to the norm as well, not that they do that, but, you know, there are lots of different organisations that can address these issues. When you say they're creating good, innovative content, and then again, you point to someone who's been at the BBC for a long time, if we think about people that are trying to create that kind of content now, such as, is it country life or country file? I don't watch the BBC, sorry. CountryFile, I think it is. Came out and said, you know, the countryside is institutionally racist, and it's a white area. as a person who is not white, I'm thinking, okay, so does that mean the countryside isn't for me? How is the countryside racist towards me? I've spent a lot of time in the countryside. I find it to be

peaceful and quiet. There aren't a lot of people there are white, but I don't think it's because I'm not welcome there. It's just because, you know, cities tend to be more metropolitan and more people of, I think, minority status tend to live in cities. But this is just another example of anything modern, anything contemporary trying to do what the BBC used to do has all gone completely woke. And it's a shame. I agree with you. Do you think maybe, just maybe, and this is a hope of mine rather than a belief, but it is a hope. This woke moment that we're in, it's just one of those periods in time in human history where everyone looks back on it 30, 40 years later and just, oh, suddenly we had people running around saying everyone's a communist, or suddenly we had people running around saying everyone's a witch. Or suddenly we decided we need to torture people who don't believe quite the right kind of Christianity.

It's just a moment when everybody goes mad for a bit and it's important not to overreact in terms of tearing down institutions like the BBC in response. No. I wish that was the case. I really do. I think we've got to stand up on fights and I mean everybody because they're the ones looking to tear down our institutions.

They're literally ripping down statues, left, right and center. We've got the new diversity commission that's been set up in London to look at what to tear down. down next. How horrible is that? They're not going to be putting up any new statues. They're not going to be honoring anyone else. They're going to be looking at who they can destroy, who they can cancel next because they're not quite working off by today's standards. This idea of looking at historical figures by today's standards is nonsensical because where does that stop? In three years,

four years, five years, when we look back at people from today, are we going to be canceling them? And that's like, you know, the issue with the school that came up last week where they renamed their houses from Lord Nelson and Sir Walter. to rally to Marcus Rashford and Greta Thunberg. It's like, these are people that are still alive, still living. They could get cancelled tomorrow if they say the wrong thing. How are you not forward thinking enough to perceive that? You can't keep adjusting your standards in this way.

It doesn't make any sense. I mean, obviously Greta Thumburg is a bad choice because she's the queen of truancy. So, you know, bad, wonderful students. Yeah, this is a former teacher. He's like, I don't care if she just didn't go to school enough. Go to school kids. Go to school kids. But look, on the statue thing, let me put a counterpoint to you because I'm interested in your answer more than anything.

What is the argument for, I grew up in Bristol when I came to this country, I lived in Bristol? What is the argument that explains why the descendants of slaves who were taken out of Africa, taken to Jamaica, and then maybe some of them came over here? Why should they be walking around looking at a statue of a man who profited from their ancestors being murdered, raped, tortured? enslaved, et cetera. What possible reason could we have as a country for continuing to honor that person by having their statue and a living human descendant of slaves having to look at that? Has anyone walks around anywhere and seen a statue and said, oh my God, that offends me, ever? I'm not convinced that actually happens. I'm not convinced that people are offended by statues. I think it's just virtue signaling. They want to show how good they are and how bad these

people were historically. If we look far back in our history, if we keep going back in our history, we'll find a flaw with every single person. Nobody was perfect. And throughout history, unfortunately, slavery was a thing. It was a terrible, terrible thing, but it was a thing for a long time. So a lot of people from those periods were involved in some way, in some way or another, in slavery, right? But that doesn't mean they didn't start charities. That doesn't mean they didn't build hospitals. That doesn't mean they didn't educate kids. And when we put statues up, we put statues up in honor of their accomplishments and their achievements. We don't put them up in honor of the bad things that they did.

You know, Winston Churchill is a great hero of mine because he almost single-handedly prevented fascism on a global scale. You know, we wouldn't have entered the war. I think the Russians might have a couple of words to say about that. But we wouldn't have entered the war if it wasn't for him, right? I'm joking. Of course you're right. And we won. And he said and did a lot of horrible things too.

But that doesn't negate the fact that he stood up to fascism. And it's the same across the board. We have to look at people holistically. And we don't put these stuff. But we do draw the line in some places, right? there are people who objectively did some things that are so bad that no matter how well they made the trains run, it just doesn't offset it, right? So we do draw a line somewhere, don't we? We only put statues up for people that have, you know, achievements that we should honour. We

don't really put statues up for bad people in general, do we? In the Lampatar, they have a statue of Genghis Khan. That's a good point. You've got me there. But I think what it comes down to for me is that if we look at these things holistically, and we don't put them up to venerate them, we're not worshipping these people. They're not saints. And even the saints themselves were not perfect people. They all had pasts and histories. So we need to look at history entirely holistically, take on both sides of every argument and then think, did this person contribute to our society in a way that has improved it? It got us to where we are today. If they have, great. If they haven't, there's a conversation to be had about where you go from there. But I don't think we should be looking around to say,

which bad person can we remove next? Or who had some remote link to a plantation at some point in their Family Shri, even if it was nothing to do with them. It's just bonkers. I do agree with you. We've gone too far. But I still am, you know, I don't know. And the reason I'm asking you these slightly provocative questions is just because I'm trying to work it out in my head.

I don't know what the justification is because the guy in Bristol-Colston, he didn't have a remote link to a plantation. No. His business was slavery, right? So should, I didn't, I didn't at all like the way. that that was dealt with at the time. No accountability, no just people come along

and tear down a statue. To me, that's wrong. That should be done through a proper process. But equally, I sort of don't, I struggle to make the positive case

for having a statue of him erected now. So why should it be up now? Yeah, yeah. Maybe you'd like to start a campaign, Calvert, I don't know. But do you see what I'm saying? Like, if we wouldn't erect that statue now,

should it really be up there now? Look, I think we should handle these decisions democratically. Yeah, that I completely agree with you on, completely. So if enough people are offended by something, then there should be a consultation period and we should address it appropriately. That's how we should handle it. As for Bristol, they have kings of the world, aren't they? They've been saying recently that they want to pay,

or the UK should pay reparations to descendants of slavery. I have no idea how that would work. Because in this system, we don't have government money. We have taxpayer money. Therefore, they're asking taxpayers to pay, you know, people who were never slaves, money from people who were never slave owners. And that would mean people like, you know, me, my money would be going to pay other brown people. How does that make sense?

You know, poor brown people would be paying rich brown people. It's absolutely insane. Your mom would have to pay your dad, which I'm sure she wouldn't be happy about me. But I think my dad would be paying his dad too in this system. It doesn't make any sense. I don't think reparations are a logical thing. to do. But I think also, you know, like I said, we do have to acknowledge our history holistically, which does mean saying that, you know, slavery was bad and we had a hand to play in that.

But it also means that we also pretty much abolished slavery on a global scale. It was the slavery, slavery abolition act, and it was our Navy that put slavery to an end. So we should celebrate our successes as much as we look towards the negatives. So what we've seen so far is we've seen, you know, the woke movement spread. It's got its tentacles everywhere. Critical race theory has now infiltrated. into schools. Have we gone too far

and is there any way of rowing back? We've completely gone too far and there is a way of roaming back because thankfully, the every man, the normal person still holds British values, traditional, what I would call Christian values and all we need is for them to stand up

and say, I've had enough. It's the vocal minority that are the woke mob and they are getting their way because they shout the loudest and they scream the loudest. What we need is for normal people to stand up to say, I've had enough of this now. And one way I think we should start doing that

is just taking ownership of our opinions and not being afraid of being cancelled. And I know that's a difficult thing. It's easy for someone like me to say, but I think if people at home, you know, change your avatars on Twitter to your face. Put your job title. If you're a plumber, a builder, whatever, own it.

Be who you are, and don't be afraid of them canceling you. Because the more people that do that, they can't cancel all of us. And they need to see that we are real people and these are normal opinions that we hold. We're not extremists for thinking. there are two genders and that I'm not impressed because of the colour of my skin. We are just normal British people with normal British opinions.

And we all need to stick our heads above the parapets until we reach a point that that's no longer a thing. And we are, you know, our opinions become taken for granted again as the normality and the woke mob kind of go back into their caves and shout at each other and cancel each other out. Do you think that's going to happen? That's what I pray for. That's what I work for. That's what I think, you know, that's what this is, isn't it?

Yeah, it is. But do you think that's going to happen? But look, I mean, you're sort of interrogating him about it, but think about our show, and, you know, we've had to take a lot of flag for starting trigonometry and the bigger that it gets, the more flag we take. But think how many comedians watch trigonometry secretly? It's quite a lot. Yeah.

You know, and so the same with you, with what you're doing. There's a lot of people who just watch from the sidelines and they don't want to necessarily get stuck in. But it's tough advice, man, because you're asking people to put their lives on the line. Absolutely. And it's hard for a lot. And not everybody, you know,

For us, thankfully, because we're creating something that's of value to other people, there's an upside to it and we can actually have a career. You know, after some of the interviews we're putting them out in the next couple of weeks, there's no comedy career left. But there is another career. But, you know, you're talking about a plumber. You're asking people to put the livelihood on the line. That's tough.

That's really, really tough. But on the other hand, I also think I completely agree with you, man, like until enough people start to put something on the line. It's not going to change. And, you know, we had Brett Weinstein a while ago talking about this. And I was saying to him, well, you know, you're an evolutionary biologist, Brett. What's the rationale for someone to risk their life for this weird thing? And he sort of said, well, the reason you're risking it is not for the greater good. You're risking it because your future is going to be very badly affected unless this takes a different direction. Is that the sort of thing that you think about? Well, I think it's both, isn't it? I think we have to get back to

what I talked about earlier, service and duty towards each other. And that's a reason to stand up, not just because of our own futures, but to conserve this country and its legacy and everything that we've built here, we don't want to see it destroyed by the neo-Moxists who want to break it down and rebuild it in their image. See, the reason that I was grilling you, Calvin, is because I think we're fucked. I think there's a Tinderbox, right? It's a very stressful time right now.

And the only parallel I can think of is Brexit. it. So people were feeling, you know, disenfranchised and forgotten and left behind, and they spoke at the ballot box, which is what we do. We're very subtle here. We don't revolt in England, do we? So we spoke at the ballot box and said, enough is enough. We want to leave the European Union, and we don't think that Westminster is listening to us. And we elected a load of Brexit party MEPs, for example. And I think we could see something similar happen again around the cultural wars, around all of these issues that we've talked about, wokeery, and free speech and all of the stuff that we're concerned about, but most normal people are too on some level.

Yeah. Oh, of course they are. Well, I was going to ask you, there's a funny thing that's happening now, and I've been observing it for a while with the arguments about the culture war. It sort of works a little bit like this. Like someone on the woke side of things will make a crazy argument. Like, you know, there's 1,347 genders. And you go, well, actually, I don't think so.

And they go, stop weaponizing the culture war to attack Trump. Yeah. Like, there's a sort of brainwashing thing where people are now starting to claim that the culture war is something that is happening to them. Yeah. Why do you think that is? Well, they're reframing the argument, aren't they? It's like, you know, the anti-racists call themselves anti-racists because it's a good cover. And that enables them to push their neo-Moxist agenda forward and enables them to be racist to people like me.

Because nobody wants to fight against someone who's called an anti-racist because that by default makes you're racist. And all that is, it's reframing their argument. It's the same with all of this workery. Black Lives Matter. They were going out there, you know, in America, they were burning down cities. Over here, they were, you know, causing quite a disturbance, a lot of violence.

But their argument, Black Lives Matter is something that you don't want to argue against that, do you? Of course, Black Lives Matter. Who would differ with that opinion? But that's what they do very well. They frame the debate in a way that makes them look like the good guys,

even if they're doing something bad because nobody wants to attack the good guys. Well, at Trigonometry, we've always been against kicking puppies. That's our label. Therefore, anything else you say about us is completely wrong. Calvin, great to have you on the show, man. Thanks for coming on. I appreciate you playing with us and challenging you a little bit and asking some provocative questions. It's been a good conversation. We've got one more question for you.

Which is always what's the one thing we're not talking about, but we really should be? This is going to be a controversial one. I don't know if I should really say it, but we're not talking about the Great Reset. We're not talking about build back better, this hashtag that's taken over the world. And I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but there is something going on here. I don't want to leave this horrible pandemic, this horrible lockdown, a different country. I want the old normal. I don't want a new normal. You know, I don't want to come out of this in a cashless society.

And I'm very worried about all the things that I'm hearing from our government about hashtag build back better. I'd like us to return. If we want a better society, we can work on it together. We don't want it implemented for us or on us. That is oppression. That is tyranny. All right.

Well, in for a penny, in for a pound. Since you brought it up, I mean, I think the monetization went when you said House Negro about 73 times in a row. And just when you said it then as well. Yeah. But since you bring it up, look, I don't know what the Great Reset is. Someone sent me the link to the World Economic Forum. I looked on it. It just looks like a bunch of people who are like, oh, we want to end capitalism or whatever, which is fine.

People are allowed to want to end capitalism. I don't agree with it, right? But when you talk about the Great Reset, what are you talking about? Look at the way he's got his hand over his mouth. I'm not a conspiracy theory, but 5G. And lizard people. Lizard people, yeah. There's this idea that you will own nothing

and you'll be happy that really disturbs me. And it's not even against capitalism. It's a new form of capitalism. It's this idea that... So we're seeing it already, for example. I went to my bank to pay in a check the other day, right? And it's so difficult to do that. I tried to queue up for the cashier.

There's only one there. They encourage you to go use the machines. I'm a computer scientist. I'm not a ludite. But I don't like everything being automated because we're losing. What we're actually seeing is the erasure of the working class. So normal jobs that normal people would do are now being automated. But that doesn't stop the wealthy still earning money.

So what we're seeing is the class divide is widening. People who are already rich and successful and powerful will remain so. But the normal orderly folk who did normal ordering jobs, their jobs won't exist very soon. And we're seeing COVID being used as a cover to speed up the process. For example, the 45-pound cash limit on contactless payments being increased to 100 pound to increase to improve the economy. How does that improve the economy? But is that not quite a conspiratorial thing to say? Because you say used as a cover, it's perfectly credible in my view to say, not used as a cover, but it's like if we're paying for, if we're trying to reduce the number of physical contacts where people can spread disease, doing things contactless sort of make sense. Just as a counter argument, that would be one of the things, right? The other thing you talk about the, you know, erasure of the working glass, I get that completely,

but it's been already happening. It's pretty much, if you listen to Andrew Yang, why Donald Trump got elected, right? Automation is taking over people's jobs. Is that really like people are using COVID nefariously, or is it just like what's happening? It's not nefariously, but they're using it to speed up the process. So why would you open your branches who it costs you X amount to employ so many people when you can just have a machine that you put your check into and, you know, you save yourself a lot of money? So people are using COVID now. When we come out of it, we won't have the same society that we went into it with. That's the problem.

And, you know, I'm really not conspiratorial, but the problem I have with the World Economic Forum and this great reset is that it's all there in the open. And it is, you know, the Davos conference that all the world leaders go to, all the most rich and powerful people in the world go to. And they're not conspiring behind our backs, but they're talking about this very openly, this idea that they want to change society, they want to improve it. But it's in their image. It's not democratic. We're not having a discussion about this. It's being put on us, and that's what scares me. That's what worries me.

And even raising the issue makes you look like a tinfall hat wearing, you know, swivel-eyed loon, which I am, but not because of this. I'll be honest with you, I do think they're using it as a way to get rid of cash. And I don't buy the whole, oh, less contact. Well, you've just got one central disease vector, which is a chip and pin. Yeah. And who benefits from us having less cash? Well, the government, because they can track, you know,

because they can track us more effectively. And number two, it's a way to control working class people who pay using cash. Indeed. But also, what I worry about in the long run is systems like what they have in China, if you do or say the wrong thing, your social credit is destroyed. We say, no, nothing like that would ever happen in this country.

But talk to me a year ago, this time a year ago, I never would have thought we'd lock down citizens in their homes and tell them who they're allowed to invite into their own house. I would have thought that would be a completely foreign idea. So you never know where we're going to be in a year's time, never mind 10 years' time. That's what petrifies me about this whole thing. And just to say, with our overloads at YouTube,

we love you, we can get everything you do is brilliant, and we won't talk about any other things that you don't like to be talked about. Exactly. And we pray to Xi Jinping every night. Absolutely. So thank you for watching our final video on YouTube. It's been an absolute pleasure. Calvin Robinson, thanks for coming on.

Where can people follow you and find out what you do? At the moment, I'm on Twitter at Calvin Robinson, but if big tech cancels me, I'm also on Telegram, Common Sense, Calvin. Just, I don't know, read the telegraph or the daily mail. Pick up an old-fashioned paper. Don't stick to online because big tech are controlling our lives. He says on YouTube. Calvin, thanks for coming on, mate. And thank you guys for watching. We will see you very soon with another episode like this one or a live stream.

Or maybe not after this conversation, who knows? But if they do go out, it's 7pm UK time. Take care and see you in the gulag, guys.