TRIGGERnometry - Laurence Fox: "I'm Thinking Of Leaving The Country"

Episode Date: October 6, 2023

In the wake of his suspension from GB News, Laurence Fox joins us for a live interview followed by Q&A (recorded on September 29th 2023.) Apologies about the sound quality at the beginning, it does get fixed over the course of the interview. Become a Premium Member to receive exclusive benefits https://triggernometry.supercast.com/ OR Support TRIGGERnometry Here: Bitcoin: bc1qm6vvhduc6s3rvy8u76sllmrfpynfv94qw8p8d5 Music by: Music by: Xentric | [e-mail] | https://www.xentricapc.com/ YouTube:  @xentricapc   Buy Merch Here: https://www.triggerpod.co.uk/shop/ Advertise on TRIGGERnometry: [e-mail] Join the Mailing List: https://www.triggerpod.co.uk/sign-up/ Find TRIGGERnometry on Social Media:  https://twitter.com/triggerpod https://www.facebook.com/triggerpod/ https://www.instagram.com/triggerpod/ About TRIGGERnometry:  Stand-up comedians Konstantin Kisin (@konstantinkisin) and Francis Foster (@francisjfoster) make sense of politics, economics, free speech, AI, drug policy and WW3 with the help of presidential advisors, renowned economists, award-winning journalists, controversial writers, leading scientists and notorious comedians. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello and welcome to a very special live episode of Trigonometry. I'm Francis Foster. I'm Constantine Kissin and our guest today has been making the news for the last couple of days. Lawrence Fox, welcome to Trigonometry. Hi guys, nice to see you again. It's good to see you mate. We'll talk about, you know, the comments that you made, the apology, we'll give our take on it and all of that. We'll talk about the bigger picture issues as well.

But the one thing, first of all, I appreciate is that as we move from being a YouTube channel to more of a media organization and covering different issues. I'm actually really pleased that you felt comfortable to come here and talk to us when a lot of other mainstream publications wanted to do an interview but not on the terms that are actually reasonable, et cetera. So thank you for being here. And in that spirit, the first thing I actually think we should do... Just before, we should also mention that the people watching at home can send questions

to Lawrence on YouTube superchats and PayPal. And we will answer. We'll do an interview. Then we'll have a quick break. and then we'll answer your questions. But Lawrence, what I wanted to say is, I think quite often, whenever anything like this happens, there is not enough context to whatever it is that's happened.

It doesn't mean that it excuses certain comments, and we'll get into all of that. But the first thing I wanted to do is actually explain what happened. So this has been a series of dominoes, the first of which was our friend Jeff Norko, a brilliant comedian. He went on a show called Politics Live. And there was a conversation with Ava Evans and a couple of other people about male suicide.

We're going to play that clip for you now so that you know what's going on. The new role would champion issues such as reducing male suicide. Would that be something you'd be in favour of? What's interested about that is the hostility it sometimes faces whenever it comes up. I saw a program where there was like a feminist academic

and a Lib Dem MP, and they were so hostile to this idea. And I thought if you flipped those things, i.e. that is the biggest cause of death for men under 50 years, suicide. Men are less likely to go to the doctors. you know, men are less likely to maintain friendships. If that was for women, we'd often look at, well, why is society making that happen? Whereas with men, the argument is often why are they doing that to themselves?

I'm not like totally wedded to the idea, but the hostility towards the idea, I find it instructive. Over? I think that it feeds into the culture a little bit, this minister for men argument. In my mind, I think there should be a minister for mental health, which should be all encompassing. I mean, you've got something like seven million children waiting for prescriptions for mental health at the moment. It's a crisis that's endemic throughout the country. country, not specific to men. And I think, you know, a lot of ministers kind of bandy this about to sort of, I'm sorry, but make an enemy out of women, I think, not you, and I don't think

your book is. But I think Sunac. I don't accept that. I don't think it is to make an enemy. If we look like during COVID, men were literally more likely to die from COVID. And I don't really want to cast myself as a menanist or one of these guys from the manist because that's not who I am. But I do find it interesting that sometimes the arguments tend to throw it back. But who was doing all the work during COVID. You know, a lot of the time, if you looked into people's households, it was the women who would take. on the laundry, the school care, all that. I'm not disputing any of that.

What I'm saying, there are specific issues that men face that might warrant specific attention. I mean, literally, the biggest killer of men under 50 is suicide. That is an arresting statistic. And if that doesn't warrant specific attention, mental health is an umbrella issue. I have to say that is also because women are unsuccessful. That is, feeds into that statistic.

But it feels like, it just doesn't feel like you've got any space for this idea that men might have unique challenges that face them. And the problem is, even as I'm saying, this in my mind it's like I've got out of the violin and I don't want to be, I don't want to be, I don't want to be this guy because that's part of the problem is because you're encouraged at one level, it's men need to talk about their problems more, and then the moment

you do it, you're like, all right, but not quite so often and not quite so loud. So like you say, the book is not, the book is more lighthearted than that, but it certainly goes around. Okay, so that was Jeff Norcott on BBC Politics Live, and that then sparked

what happened afterwards, which was you going on Dan Wooten's show, And here is this clip, which is what you said. We're past some of which. So I can say this. Show me a single self-respecting man that would like to climb into bed with that woman ever, ever, who wasn't an in-sell. Who wasn't a cucked little in-cell. That little woman has been fed, spoon-fed oppression day after day, after day after day,

starting with the lie of the gender wage gap. And she sat there and I'm going like, if I met you in a bar and that, was like sentence three, chances of me just walking away are just huge. We need powerful, strong, amazing women who make great points for themselves. We don't need these sort of feminist 4.0. They're pathetic and embarrassing. Who'd want to shag that? Well, look, she... Sorry, I'm just, I'm just going to provide a touch of balance from her because she did actually respond to this earlier today saying that she regretted her comments,

but she didn't apologise. Yes, so there you go. And she's a very beautiful woman, Lawrence. Very beautiful. There you go. Although I'm probably not. Okay, Lawrence. So looking at that clip in the cold, brutal light of day,

it doesn't look good, mate, does it? No. No, no. I think I'd spoken to them earlier in the day and you know, because you have a pre-interview, interview, if you know what I mean, and they'd said, oh, we're going to do this story. And I was slightly hoping that they weren't going to do that story because I had had strong feelings about it. Certainly, what I felt was the belittling of male mental health and all of that sort of stuff. And as the context that Constantine has already added. And I thought it's probably a chance that I will go over the top here. because I'm emotional, you know. And I spent 22 years acting. So when you're an actor, you're trained on instinct. You're trained to feel instinct and jump on it because that's how you keep stories going

and people suspend their disbelief. So that is the way my brain works. And also I'm highly emotional this person. So when I listen back to it now, I just go, it's just kind of crass. It's the kind of thing you tell in the pub. people do say in pubs you hear it all the time

stuff like that but the point is I should have really just attacked I think I was fair enough to make the point that I wanted to make which was when you've got a misandrist fourth wave feminist who wants men to be terrified

and scared of women and who tweets pictures of her saying I'm socially distancing from men and you know I'm wearing a mask to protect myself from the most deadly virus of all men, I'm just a bit like, stop. And therefore, instead of dismantling her ideas, I just said, I can't think of a single man who want to shag you.

I mean, which self-respecting man would want to shag you. I was also trying to be funny. A big mistake. And, you know, I listen back to it. And I think, yeah, it's crass and crap and, you know, and, but I don't really, if I'm truly honest, think it's merited the, I mean, wall to wall, channel to channel, politician, everyone, media, everyone, condemnation, especially when you see half the stuff that has been said,

which is infinitely worse and has passed without problem. Well, look, I agree with you on that aspect of it. I do think that the entire thing has been blown out of all proportion. And now, we'll get on to that later in the interview. But I would say to your point about being an actor, And I understand if you're an actor, you're emotion, you're an emotional person, because that is the nature of the profession. I've done some acting training myself.

However, Lawrence, you're now a political figure. Isn't it the role of a political figure to be measured, to be reasonable, to be analytical? It's not to go in with emotion. No, I think we need more emotion in politics, actually. I think we could do with a lot more emotion in politics rather than people just nodding along to whatever they say. I think it, I would never want to. to perhaps need to harness my emotion,

but I think emotion and instinct of two of the most powerful tricks and tools that one has in the armory. But yeah, 100% you're right. A, who is Ava Evans? With all due respect to her, I'd never heard of her until two days ago. I don't know what she is

or what she does for a living. I still don't know what she does for a living. And I probably should have not gone down to her level. You know, and as I've said, you know, I've, I've apologised for the way I spoke because it is, it's not helpful. And it doesn't get across the point, which is the sentiment behind what I spoke, which is women like that, women who have that ideological position of hyper-feminism, which is sort of authoritarian rather than egalitarian feminism. And Miss Andry, my point was what man who wants to build a life and build a great union and a family of which this country needs a lot because our birth rates are so low would want,

if he was to marry a woman like that, I'd imagine he'd be giving himself a life sentence of, you know, hell. Lawrence, when I saw that clip, there was part of me that thought, did you have a few drinks before that? And then you just went, right, screw this. I'm going to tell them what I think. I'd had a glass of wine at dinner, yeah, definitely. But I've had a few.

But, you know, it's not so much that. It's like 9.30 at night. You're like, you're at the end of the day. You're much more kind of, I finished all my things. I can relax. Which is what you can't do because it's television. You shouldn't relax. But, you know, I am reminded back of those sort of shows like the Word

and all of that stuff. Do you remember? And we were raised on that. And also I spend a lot of time listening to, I think one of the other things that affects the way I speak sometimes is I spend a lot of time listening to American podcasts. So I'll listen to Megan Kelly a lot. And she's sort of chatting away and she's going,

I'm saying, fuck them, that's why I don't care, fuck them. And I sort of, you become influenced. And you forget that British broadcasting is about going, yes. Yes, on the 9 o'clock news, we're going to talk about this and that. But so, yeah, I'm not making excuses for myself. It was crass, poorly expressed, bleed demeaned her, which is wrong. What's the point of doing that?

And I didn't get my point across, which is what I was there to do, which was to get a point of course. There is a possibility that people will only be hearing me through Francis microphone at the moment. Some people will, our critics will say, we're doing a very good impression. GBUs in the early days,

which is a fair comment, we'll take it. Taking the piss hours. Look, I think the reason I wanted to have you on, actually, is that when I saw your comments, I just thought, Lawrence, this is a silly thing to say. It's offensive. It's, you know, crass. And I didn't comment on in a couple of days

because I thought what should have happened, which is GB News has an editorial code. You've clearly broken it. You're probably going to get sacked. That is what should happen, right, in this situation. And that's it. But I think what we've also seen is the reaction it's just been insane

from my perspective and that isn't to you know I think your point is interesting about podcasts in particular because GB News is offcom regulated it's a British public broadcaster

right and that isn't the same as sitting even sitting here with us is different and do you think that maybe you want is it that you sort of forgot about it or is it? Is it that you actually chafe against the restrictions that G.B. News is operating under?

I've had a lot of off-com training by Ghibi news. And I've never, up until Monday, had a complaint that's been made and upheld against me. That as Angelos, who's walking around, throwing everyone under the bus this morning, has said, you know, I sailed close to the wind. I know who's Angelos. Frankopoulos, the guy who runs it. The chief executive of the media. Yeah. And I, My thing is because of the way that you know I am, I'm recklessly free in my expression in a lot of ways. So when someone says off-com,

I just think, oh, there's a bunch of communists who want to shut everyone up and silence people, and I don't really think about them. So I just think, if you're telling the truth, if it's an opinion you're being asked for, then offer it. You know, and obviously, there are ones, I offer an opinion every single week

and about various things. And, you know, they, occasionally people shout in my ear and go, You're going to have more balance, push back. And I'm like, that's good. You do want balance, and you do want to push back. But at the same time, yeah, I think you get confused between the areas, from the pub chat to the podcast to the off-con regulated space.

But it's not an excuse. I'm hired by them. I've got a, well, for about the next 20 minutes, probably. I've got a, you know, it is my responsibility to do it. But I also think at the same time, G. G.B. News itself calls itself down with free speech. So they possibly might. But they do have an editorial charter.

Of course they do. And the editorial charter says, you must respect people's opinions and people, right? Yeah. And we'd all agree that what you said about Ava was disrespectful. Yeah. I don't think it's misogyny or anything like that. I think it's disrespectful.

I think it was... I think the fact, you know what I'll tell you, just as someone who works with words quite a lot? If you'd said Shag Her, it would have been offensive. But I think Shag That really took it. to a different level. Yeah, well, I wasn't

itemizing her as that. What I was saying was, this is the sort of person, if you met someone in a bar like that, and actually I wasn't talking about her at that point, I was saying, if you met someone in a bar on the third sentence in, they started telling you how much they did you mean,

who'd want to shag that person? You know, so you could say her or you could say if I just added the word person. Yeah. But what it came across as, which I completely understand, and it's, you know, again, I'm not, I'm holding my hands up,

is it when, who'd want to shag that like in some objects? So I can see that. Yeah. I think that's how a lot of people receive that. Yeah, yeah, of course they do. But, you know, anyone who is looking for, and, you know, when I look at it, it sounds like that too.

But it wasn't my intention. Yeah. And look, I don't want to make this the grilling of Lawrence Fox. You can. You can make it whatever you want. I don't want to because I think, as I said, I think what you said was crass and wrong. And I also think the reaction to it has been just insane to me.

It's like a trap. And we'll talk a little bit about why that is in the moment. But, you know, there was some. debate internally here about whether we should have you or not. And for us and for me and Francis, it was obvious that we should because I think it's important to have these discussions. But you're a Christian and we have some Christians who work here who were like, how does this reconcile with Lawrence's faith exactly? You know, I haven't read the Bible cover to cover, but you know what I mean? I don't know talking about whether you shag someone is in there.

No, it's definitely not in there. Along with he was out in in cast the first stone and the fact that we're all fallen. So we are, you know, we're all sinful. We're all fallen. Jesus Christ died for our sins. We can't be perfect all the time. We're not perfect. So we are, we are by our very definition fallen. So that's just an example of someone fallen being fallen in my book. It doesn't reconcile itself with my faith because it's, you know, we're all created equally in the eyes of God. And actually, you know, speak to any women I know, they're upheld and loved and supported and honoured as they should be. My problem is emotion.

It's like, do not belittle male suicide because I have friends who have died from male suicide and you don't see it coming. And I'm still angry about it. Don't do that. Don't go, oh, it's a cultural issue or you never see it in men because they just go, and then they, you know, I'm lucky I'm an emotional person. And that is a story. And to belittle that is shameful and disgusting, actually.

And, you know, I could make an argument now that I'm riled up again to say people like that are vile, disgusting people. But I can't do that. But I can make an argument to do it because I don't want to be in that world. I'd much rather be in the forgiveness and contrition world. And because that's where we're going to have to hit. But to do that, you know, I've had to deal with families that have had this take place and no one knew it was coming. So you do need to talk about mental health and you don't need to poo-poo it in like talk about the fucking gender pay gap when someone's trying to make a serious point.

So that, I'm still enraged about that. I don't blame you, by the way. I think in the interest of, you know, actually, I'm so glad you've explained that part of it because it doesn't justify your comments. But I think what happened in that BBC politics life thing, we didn't play the full clip. By the end of it, there was another woman who jumped in. And by the end of it, Jeff was like apologising for sexual assault against women when the entire conversation was supposed to be about male suicide.

And the demonization of men in the media, in advertising, in Hollywood, it is happening, and we all see it. You have to be blind not to. And I think it's bad for men and for women. Feminization of men, that's what it is. This is my objection to the fourth way of feminism, if that's where we are, is essentially, of course we want equality. Of course we want equality.

And of course we don't want men going, I'm going to, you know, you don't want the behaviours that have taken place in the past. You want women to have just as active role in life as men do. But this wave is, it's vengeful of us. And actually, you know, the amount of men in this world who do wonderful and amazing things and sacrifice hugely for women, what we just throw. throw them under the bus and put them all in with the same thing. And, you know, it is as Jeff.

I mean, Jeff is a much, much more measured person than me. And even he was starting to get, like, what I'm feeling O.G. intense about this. Because the media narrative is bollocks to men. It's all about women and diversity and equity and inclusion. And it's like, well, do we get included? Do our problems get included? This kills more people than even run under 50.

You know, I've had people who've come back from the Gulf War and have killed themselves. So not any of they've gone, along with 99% of the other men, whether you agree with the fighting or not, they've gone to represent Britain's interest overseas and had people die in tanks that have fallen off, you know, marsh banks and sunk and listened to the last words of their friends crying, to the point where, you know, as they're dying and comforting each other, then to go home and to take their own lives,

I mean, it's despicable. You know that phrase? Sorry, Francis. Just one more question from me, and then you take over. You know the phrase, the medium is the message? Yeah. I wonder whether, you know, you mentioned you were trying to be funny, you were trying to be provocative, it's late at night,

you've got a short amount of time to make some kind of impact. I don't think anybody's ever heard the argument that you've just made, made by you as eloquently as you've just put it. And I think, is it possible that that medium where you've got a three-minute thing, it just doesn't allow the depth and the nuance that having an hour like this sitting down with people who disagree with what you said but still are interested in the broader conversation.

That seems to me to be just a completely different way of having this discussion. I never wanted to do that 9 o'clock, 9.30 slot would Dan because it's exactly clickbait. It's just clickbait. They give you the most provocative story and they want Lawrence to come in and say something provocative, of which on this occasion, I went over the line quite substantially.

But that's what they kind of want. They want you to sail through it. And it's just, it's unhealthy. I don't think it's good for television. In fact, I think hour-long television with four breaks and five different stories is crap, actually. And as we've seen with the massive rising podcasting and the success of podcasting, you don't need it. So, GB News are, I admire what their original mission. was to do and I'm watching horror.

I feel dreadful because the trap was set and the bait was me and GV News ate the bait and that's what happened. But the trap's been waiting there forever. The trap has been waiting and all GV News had to do was cancel one of their own and then GV News

are no longer down with free speech. Let's explore that because what do you mean by that, Lawrence? They want... If you look at the reaction to what's happened every single media channel from both sides of what I call the Union Party but they bring Conservative

and every single politician and media outlet is saying the same thing shut them down Well let's play a clip of that We've got a clip actually of Adam Bolton on Newsnight he was there along with several others Including a Conservative MP and this is what took place I watched it until it was drawn attention to

But I wasn't surprised Nonetheless I did ask myself why these two people were on a purportedly serious news station at all, bearing in mind that Mr. Wooten in other areas is currently suspended from the mail. He's under investigation at the son as well for his previous behaviour. Over allegations that he denies, I should say. And as far as Lawrence Fox is concerned, I think he now has a long record of saying pretty extreme things.

And in fact, I was at a news meeting at another broadcaster day and saying, well, you know, would you still put Lawrence Fox on television? And the conclusion was you probably wouldn't. And both of them, I think, have damaged themselves by doing this. And therefore we say, well, why was G.B. News doing it? And, you know, I have to say, I think the complaints have piled up against GB News. I think there is a delicate and important broadcast ecology in this country. I think, you know, GB News is trying to bust that ecology.

And frankly, what Offcom should do is shut it down. like it shut down RT. I mean... Shut down, like shut down RT. I mean, RT is the propaganda wing of the Russian government. Anyway. Yeah, so that's worrying because people will find what you said, distasteful, they may argue that it's sexist, fair enough.

But what, you're going to shut down an entire TV channel because of words that are distasteful? I mean, that is an overreaction, to put it mildly. Well, I think the clue. the hint is in the two things that I hear there are broadcast ecology. Now, what is a broadcast ecology? For me, in my overwhelming belief that the idea that we live in a democratic country is not true anymore. We're living in a very soft communist state in the UK at the moment.

So the broadcast ecology is parrot whatever the regime want you to parrot beer. over COVID, be it over G.B. News, be it over anything, be it over trans issues, be it anything, or cultural issues, you know, BLM, all of these things. There is a broadcast ecology that they fit in, and that's the narrative, mostly peaceful riots, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So GB News's attempt to disrupt that broadcast ecology. It was a very healthy idea, and it was its USP. But the second thing, he said, which, and it just sort of comes out, like she said,

I don't think Lawrence Fox should just be allowed on TV. And it's like, do you do realize what you're saying. You're saying, I think that this person should be banned from our broadcast ecology that we've created for you. And I think GB News would... I know off-com is a nightmare, but I've been into that office, which is about the most toxic place you can ever spend time, in my view.

I find the whole building just because it's full of snakes. who want to close the whole thing down from within anyway. We're talking about GB News. About GB News. And you go into the office and it's just like, oh, you need a shower when you leave. And I'm only in there five, six hours a week. And I've said to them, every time I walk in,

I've said you need to start pushing back against this because offcom are going to kill you, whether you like it or not. And they're currently working on a different model as well, similar to, you know, I think getting off. I imagine they will be booted off probably. But they had an opportunity. yesterday, a day forward to turn around just go, look, I thought what Lawrence said was

reprehensible and appalling and went far beyond what G.B. News did. But fundamentally, we believe in the right to free speech. So we, you know, we utterly condemn what he said, but we utterly defend his right to say it. I mean, that's, it's the, it's the, it's the, it's the free speech version of, of Martin Luther King saying content to character, not color of skin. Hold on, Lawrence, hold on. You, when you, when you, when you, it's the, it's the, it's the, it's the, it's, it's the, it's, it's the, it's the, it's the, it's the, it's the, when You became a presenter on GB News. You agreed to the editorial charter. Yeah, that's true.

Which you broke. Well, I don't know about breaking. You definitely did. I mean, I've read it. It says you must respect the opinions of others and those people. And we've already agreed, not to go over all ground, but we've already agreed your comments with disrespectful to E. So you did break it, which is, look, people are going to break rules and that happens. So I have to say from as an outside observer, I think your criticism of GB News is unreasonable in this.

situation, they have to, they have to suspend you. No, I'm not saying don't suspend me. And probably sack you. Yeah, I'm not. And therefore, how can they defend your right to say it if they're suspending you for it? How can they do that? From their perspective, they're going, we're regulated by offcom,

Lawrence has broken our rules, he's broken offcom rules. Yeah. So I think the issue you're fighting against here is that DB News is an offcom regulated broadcaster and not a YouTube channel, let's say, right? So they also, you know, just to again, in terms of context, in terms of context, I told them exactly what I was going to say, including the word shag. I said, who would want to shag that? And they were giggling away. And they were giggling away right up until the moment the mob came for them. So yes, I've gone past their editorial thing. Also, by the way, I'm totally happy to get sacked. No, I know, I know. But I'm saying your criticism is unfair, it seems to me. Well, I don't. I think G. G.B. News are, what is the point in labeling yourself? the home of free speech if you're going to cancel people for free speech.

It's an oxymoron. Therefore, if your business model is to be the home of free speech, then either campaign to have Offcom removed or do it online. Surely. Because if you can't, it, Offcom has proven that free speech is not celebrated in this country. We look at the whole point of GBM news existing in the media landscape was because every single other news channel was saying exactly the same thing. So GB News came on and the rest of the media.

have looked at them and said, we'll get them. Somehow we'll get them. Someone will do it. And if it hadn't been me that trod on the mine, it would have been someone else who trod on the mine at some point. You know? And that's what would have happened. But what scares me is the fact that everyone wants them shut down.

That's what scares me. Now, I think that they should have been a bit bullsier about the whole thing, if I'm honest. I think what they should have done is instead of utterly completely condemn me, they should have turned around, they possibly phoned me and said, listen, you blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, what on earth was going on. And I can let me at least explain as I've explained here what's going on.

And then take a pause to work out what is their position on this. Have you spoken to anybody, though? No, no one's called me at all. I was on my phone. I was on my phone. And, you know, when you get those news things appearing, like Lawrence Foxx spending from GP News, and I actually laughed because I thought, that's so funny.

that no one would even send you a, you know, a message or anything like that. So, yeah, I mean, it is what it is. I mean, look, to be fair to GB News, they are, I mean, it's a tough situation to me. It is. It is a tough situation because for context for people watching from overseas, they've got an advertising boycott against them. So they're hemorrhaging money. They've got people pressuring them. They've got people criticizing them.

They've got the entire media ecology against them. And all of a sudden, this is, broadcast ecologist. Broadcast ecology, that's the one. You know, so in a way, it is understandable, Lawrence. Yes, no, I'm not going, it's all where fault? Yeah, it's all my fault. I think we've gone through the struggle session of it's all my fault. I hope it hasn't been a struggle set.

No, no, because I think, look, I'm, yeah, you know, I just, to me in my brain, I just find a whole idea of off-com, stunningly ridiculous. Well, this is what I'm saying to you is you're blaming G.B. News for being regulated. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I think that's kind of what you're fighting against it. And by the way, just so that it doesn't feel too much like a struggle session, particularly on the broadcast ecology point, there's actually a few videos that I want to play for people to get a little bit of context about what can happen on other channels and what people do other channels, and no one demands those channels are shut down. So we have a clip of the man we just saw, Adam Bolton. This is how he used to speak to staff when he was on Sky News. By the way, he still works for Rupert Murdoch.

It's having a go at GB News. I wonder if that's a complete accident. Anyway, let's play this clip. Yeah, Beth comes, put her in there. And then she can go away. I know, I know. Just put the fucking seat in. Have you got the grab?

Yeah. Yeah, well, she's gonna come and fucking sit here if she wants to be on telly. Well, in the past few minutes, Mr. Johnson arrived. What the fucking care? Stop fucking around. Yes.

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Browse securely. Connect with confidence. Right now, save 83% off the two-year plan. Get started today at IPVanish.com and take control of your privacy with IP Vanish. Well, Beth is here. You can see Boris Johnson speech when it happens around lunchtime. But that guy.

Great respecter of women, that guy. Yeah, but I actually defend him. You do? Yeah, he wasn't on air. And if you can't, I mean, God forbid what GVy News have got stored in the cupboard of things I've said when we're not on air. I can see why you're defending us.

No, but I don't care because I'm thinking, he wasn't on air. I'm much more interested in the woman this morning who turned around, oh, yesterday on Times Radio in the middle of the day and went Lawrence Fox is a dick. Because I wonder, is that the same level of... Well, right. And actually, perhaps more to your point, we have a clip from Sky News talking about the Martin Pashire affair,

who of course tricked Princess Diana. We don't even need to play it because I think we can retell the story. He tricked using fraudulent documents Princess Diana into giving an interview while working at the BBC. Russell Brandt, Sacksgate, happened while he was working at the BBC.

I mean, we could go further into the history of BBC presenters' behavior on and off screen without making this too non-see. So all of that was wrong. I think all the people were reprimanded of the ones that were, you know, available to be reprimanded at the time. But nobody called for the BBC to be shut down. Philip Schofield's behavior didn't result in ITV being shut down or anyone calling for it to be shut down. So the part...

I think we might have done, mate. Yeah. Nobody was paying attention to us. Exactly. They are now. So my point is what I do agree with you is there is clearly a politically motivated campaign. to shut down G.B. News by, let's be honest, their rivals. Yeah, but also the establishment.

Yeah. The establishment narrative. So this media ecosystem, or whatever, I've forgotten it now, what's it called broadcast ecology. That reaches out, doesn't it? Because it's a massive institution in the BBC and stuff like that. The broadcast ecology reaches out into the cultural ecology of what is and isn't acceptable

and where the Overton window sits within society. Gb News, you're right, I should separate out my criticisms. GB News wanted to shift that. Well, to do its best to provide, let's face it, 51% of the population with something to watch that they might learn something from or agree with. And GB News often listens to its audience.

It doesn't tell them what to think. It doesn't use that broadcast quality thing. But it all expands out to fill up our entire culture. So, you know, newspapers will write the word she. I was speaking to a journalist the other day and I was like, why do you go a picture of a big, scraggly-bearded man with a wig on and say, woman arrested and charged with sex offences, she will be sent, you know, like, why do you do that?

And they say, it's just easier for the sub-editors to do it. Because if someone doesn't write she, then you're going to get a complaint from someone else going, but he says it's a woman. You know, and it broadens out and out and out and out and infects our culture. And I think I've just rambled into myself into a corner. What was I trying to say? No, you were talking about the broadcast ecology. Yeah.

So the broadcasts, so separating out off-com is right. Why is off-communists, the off-communists, which is what they are. Essentially, anything with com on the end of it is they just stand for communism. El-com. We get El-com, the Reclaim Party, L-Communists. We get fined investigated relentlessly, nonstop, unlike any other political party word, and we're tiny like this. So I think there's a determined effort not only to shut down GB News, but I think there's a determined effort to shut down anyone who is confident and okay to share an opinion. The thing that I find really frustrating when it comes to broadcasters like the BBC.

So I actually watch that news night. All those people around that table agreed. They all agreed that... They probably broke off-com rules. They did break off-com rules. They absolutely broke off-com rules because there was not one single person there who offered a dissenting voice.

G.B News has Aaron Bastani come on, who we've had on the show. Love Aaron. Aaron is so far to the left, you can't see him, right? Okay, he's ahead of Navarra media. Is he as far left as a conservative party? It's a good point and a good joke. So you go, you are not even adhering to your own rules

where you talk about the fact that GB News is biased and doesn't, you know, and it only has one point of view. But look at what you do. But yet, that's seen as fine. That's what angers me. Yeah, and I think probably the point I was trying to make is it's not really anger at GB News. It's more like going, guys, do you realize what is about to happen?

you're going to have to become Afcom compliant which means you have to become part of the ecology and that means you're just going to be the same as all of the other channels their desperate last move to not get removed

is to become exactly the same as Sky News or BBC News or ITV News just with no budget no advertisers it's like you just go out there with swords and go no offcom We're going to do this. We're going to fight you on all of it.

No, but then they are going to get shut down. Yeah, well, I don't know. Maybe this is why you don't run a TV channel large. I don't want to run. I would never want to run a TV channel. Yeah. But I just don't think, I think off-con, what's the point in off-com? It's just narrative gatekeeping.

Look, I've become more and more sympathetic to that position where watching what has actually happened. I mean, are you worried for GB News? If you were working for them, would you be worried? I mean, you still are. Currently for the next however long I've got the disciplinary rate too Yeah, we'll see I am yeah, I am I don't think I'm not sure how they can survive they you know

Again this thing of like saying we're their home free speech but we've had to cancel a load of people That's not a good look for TV channel because it's their USP. I think that's a problem for them I think that they'll have to dumb themselves down so dramatically that they'll become indistinguishable from any other news channel and I think their presenters will all be so to have all their authenticity taken away from them that they'll just have to sort of say this sort of same thing with a very slight right-leaning tendency you know and but also they burn a lot of bridges now

with you know this is suspended Calvin Robinson for not going on someone's show because he's trying to he's saying Dan Wittn hasn't been sacked yet or may not be sacked at all so until that investigation is complete I'm not going to go on someone else's show because I would feel that that would personally compromise my loyalty to him as a person. It's the guilty until proven innocent thing, which is, you know, which is a much bigger problem in society as we know. Not to make this more of a struggle session, but do you feel responsible for what's

happening to G.B. News now? Are you quite happy that you've sort of highlighted this issue? How do you feel about it? No, I don't. I'm pissed off with myself for that. I don't have any malevolence towards GV News. I really enjoyed going on and pursuing the stories that I managed to get out. And certainly just recently with the Siddish family and all of that sort of stuff,

I really thought this is great. This is a channel that's talking about this. Look, I think that they've jumped too much. Am I responsible? I am in a way? Look, where's it come from? But am I responsible for saying what I said? No, I'm responsible because they took me on the bait.

I said the stupid thing. And the entire social media and media descended on me. But no, Lawrence, but I come back to this point, which I think is important for this discussion, not to try and make you look better or anything, but they had to sack you. I know, I get that. I'm not saying that.

Okay, you're missing my point. I'm misunderstanding. I've said that several times. Yeah. They came for me. All of them. And as you quite rightly pointed out, this is rank hypocrisy from the media ecology. They came for me and they came en masse.

So, yes, I am responsible. But what should GB News do when that happens? You said something unacceptable that breaks the rules, both theirs and off-coms. All these people come for you, as you say. I agree with you massive overreaction, even though your comments were wrong, in my opinion. But what should GB News do in that situation? I don't know. I think they probably don't have much option.

know why they suspended Dan. Nor do I actually. But I think, you know, Dan's had some problems there with people trying to take him down. I don't know why they've suspended Calvin this morning. I don't know why, you know, it's like, I think there's a, you know, I think there's just, there must be somewhere in a big room somewhere they're going, look, we're losing 30 million pounds a year, we need to get some advertisers, we're going to need to do this whole thing down, make it very, you know, advertising.

Mainstream. Yeah. Yeah, which is fine. Also do it. But don't hire me. I mean, that's good advice. It's like they know what I'm like. They know what I've done, what I've said,

and how open I am with what I speak. They hired me. I take full responsibility for what I said and I fully support their right to fight me. I'm not trying to, also I'm really not interested in. protecting my job for the reasons I've already laid out about the atmosphere in the place anyway. But they did hire me and they did know that you're hiring someone who's on the edge. And as Andrews himself said, sails pretty close to the wind on what is free speech? Now, if free speech is your passion and your interest and you see it as the only way out of a problem that we've got in culture,

then you are going to step on landmines when you do it in the way that I do it. constantly looking for what the edge of acceptability is. And I've trodden over it. And so be it. Bye. I've got... I'm not... I'm not sitting here going,

it's so unfair. I'm not like that. It's not... I own my mistakes. Lawrence, do you think it as well? I think it's very interesting. If you cast your mind back to literally a week, these broadcasters, particularly Channel 4 and BBC,

were under heavy fire because of the Russell brand allegations. Heavy fire and a lot of very difficult and important questions were being asked about the way that these broadcasters conducted themselves and also how their presenters conducted themselves and whether people were being put in danger around these presenters. All of a sudden this blows up, they then come after GB News and look, maybe it's me being heavily conspiratorial. I'm here going, is this just a man?

massive deflectionary tactic. Yeah, of course it is. And also, as someone quite rightly pointed out, the only time I've laughed since Monday was someone said, hang on a minute, everyone's being in such a fuss for someone shagging too many people

and you're getting cancelled for not wanting to shank someone. That's what they're against you for. Yeah, you know, but the knives have been out for GV News from day one. Even from within the organisation, man. There's loads of people in there

who hate that channel. and want to take it down. Why are you working there? Because people need money. You know, and you do trained out of technical knowledge or you're trained by the BBC or whatever and you don't get a job and you move and get GV News and whatever. Lawrence, you know what worries me about this whole situation

is irrespective of how crass and offensive of your comments or whatever. We've got to a point where I think a very significant portion of our chattering classes care more about people's words than about their actions. And that, I don't, I don't get that. It's easier to care about someone's words. If someone says the right thing, it's like, you know, like critical race theory, it's so much harder to solve actual inequalities in society than just by saying, well, if you're black, you're repressed.

Rather than going, well, no, actually, if you're poor and you can't afford to feed your own family, you're oppressed by a system which it needs to be reformed. The difficulty is, yeah. We celebrate false virtue. That's one of the most important aspects of the modern progressive world that we live in. And we don't look at people's actions. I'm actually fairly, I'm proud of a lot of what I've done,

and I'm proud of a lot of the relationships that I have with people who profoundly disagree with me, and I've built bridges where bridges cannot be built. I suppose the worrying part now is I'm going to have to leave the UK, I think. that's my main concern is like I'm cancelled for my own country Why do you have to live the UK?

Well, I've got to earn a living I've got two kids put through school and feed you know so that's I think what will have to happen I mean do you think I should I mean I'm really happy

to nip over to talk TV and knock on the door and go Hey guys anyone hiring? I mean they need the views lots they do to be fair mate

yeah I mean Do you think it's really that bad? Or is this, you know, is this going to... I've been cancelled twice, man. My acting career had taken away from me for saying something totally, nothing wrong. Yeah, so yes, I've gone over there.

We've done that bit. But I had my acting career removed for saying that England is a tolerant, warm, welcoming nation. So I've been cancelled once. And I had to drag myself up with actually you helped me put together a Patreon and all that sorts of stuff. I don't know. It's trying to do it.

Drag myself back up out of that one and finally got back to a position. And then I'm cancelled again. So I know how hard it is to pick yourself up from these situations. So, you know, I'm not, I don't know if I've got the energy for it, if I'm honest. Maybe I'll be on the male suicide list. You never know. I mean, look, but as well, Lawrence, you're very charismatic. You're a great presenter.

You're incredibly likable. You've got a huge audience. You've got a lot of people who love what you do. You're very employable. It's true. I'm not saying, none of these things that I'm saying are wrong or incorrect. There's a lot of people who would look at you and think to themselves, yeah. I would shank him.

Yes, exactly. You can tell you went to boarding school, mate. I'm taken, mate. I'm afraid. It depends how much you want the gig, Lawrence. Yeah. Yeah, it's actually the casting couch. Yeah.

Bring it back. I'll be killing all. Well, look, man. I will say this, and I don't like the joke you made about being on the male suicide list, because I think... I wasn't joking. I know you won't. And this is why I don't like it, because I think I don't like that we... I'll say it again, so this can't be clipped out of contest.

I didn't agree with what you said. I didn't like what you said. But I don't like living in a society where making a crass comment puts you in this position. No, we should. That's not right. No, it's not right. But when I was talking about it, like when I went through it last time, those thoughts did go through my head. So you're like, you know, what's next?

What's coming next? And totally accept my own stupid fault as well. But we shouldn't live in a society. No, this isn't right. It does that to people. And we also, we're talking principles rather than regulators. We should not live in a society where your only chance of survival in existence is to count and bow to the whims of a council mob that will want to eat you regardless.

of what you've got to say if it doesn't agree with whatever the mob's mood is that day. That is a terrifying place for a society to be. And I will say this as well. I think with Ava, who made the comments about male suicide, which I think were, you know, grotesque and unacceptable, she's probably got a lot of shit. And that really shouldn't be happening either. You know, both you and her should be in a position

where you express opinions that lots of other people don't like. But this idea that we just gang up on people and we just spout shit at them until they were. want to go and kill this. I don't go up on anybody. I'm not saying you. No, I'm just saying this is why I hate that side of the argument and I hate the ideology that she represents because it's disgustingly vile, divisive and hateful and it supports the cancellation of people. The number of people that come onto my feed and go, ha ha ha ha, you're fucked, you're fucked, you're dead, it's over. You know, it's like I would never do that to someone.

You wouldn't, but I imagine she's had a lot of people do that to her. Well, and she's been talked about how much it is. So I don't bother wasting my time, pretty much going through the replies to my feed, because a lot of them are like, I hope your kids die, I hope you'll die, watch your back, you'll get stuff. I don't bother to go for the victim thing because I don't believe in victims. I believe in courageous people. I admire courage. And therefore, it is pretty bad.

So it's a complex situation. We can agree that what I said was wrong. We can then think about what should the consequences, that be. Now, I would, I'm totally happy to go, right, you're right. I went past your, I saw your code, goodbye, leave. But that means, for the second time, that I, where am I going to get a job in the UK? What am I going to do? You know? And that is, when you're a father, and most of the stuff I do anyway, the reason I spoke out in the first place, which was on trigonometry, ironically, in 20, whenever, 2019. 2019, was to say this world.

is in a really bad place and I've got children and I don't want them to grow up. I need to do some of the fighting so I don't leave them to have to do the fighting. I'd have half an hour conversation with one of my son's PSHE coordinators who was saying I was saying you said we don't teach extreme ideologies and I said like what? Like trans and stuff because that's an extreme ideology isn't it and she went oh no we teach that and I said white privilege do you teach that And they're like, yeah, pronouns. Yeah, social transitioning. So I'm like, those are all extreme ideologies.

I'm fighting my ass off to make sure that my kid can leave school not totally part of the media ecology or the cultural ecology, you know. With the most important thing in this world is that people are themselves. And we're living in a culture that is making people, being yourself contingent on the fact that you don't have a job, you don't have a livelihood and it's game over should you fuck up even once. But Lawrence, I will... Francis, sorry, before you do that, I'll just say

I want our audience to get a chance to say, ask a few questions and chip in here. So send in your questions now. We're going to go to a quick break shortly after Francis asked a few questions and we'll be answering your questions and putting them to Lawrence as well. Look, I

think it's very important at this point for everybody who's watching and listening, who is in a situation where they feel that They are without hope. And this is extended to you that there is always hope, Lawrence. I know. When things seem at their most bleak, it's sometimes the moment or frequently the moment where things can turn around.

You're blessed when you're at the end of your rope. Yeah, I know it very good. It's just, you know, if you've had two 48 hours of every single pop-up on your phone, every single media channel, everything aimed at you. Yes. And how evil you are, it makes you very, very raw. Yeah, so look, let's also talk about this as well, because this is an important part of the discussion.

We've done the rest of it. What is it like being in the centre of this media storm right now? Well, you can't eat. You thrive on cortisol. So it's like being your, you can see me, I'm itching. It's very itchy. You feel hopeless. It's very painful.

and you feel, you know, you can't really, you can't feel sorry for yourself because your own fucking thing, you've done it. So it's not that. And you just feel, I feel, I feel, I get upset about, a little bit upset about the hypocrisy of it all, I suppose, but it's not surprised. You know, that's the nature of these things. It's horrible. Who would want to live in it?

You know, it makes you want to buy a small log cabin in a fjord somewhere in Norway and write a long James Joyce-esque type book for the next 15 years and wait for Britain to rot, you know, and then see what happens. And what effect does it have on the people around you and your kids? My poor kids are amazing, but they know who I am. They know what version of, they know who I am. So they're not going to believe stuff that they say in the media. My sons are amazing.

You know, people outside of that situation will use it to weaponise. There's a very famous actor who went up to my son at school and told him his dad was a fascist, you know, which I think is about a repellent behavior as possible. But, yeah, no, my family affects my family. It affects everybody, you know, that's what it does. But I, you know, yet again, regardless of what of this current, issue, there has been a target on my back for four years. And that target is not going anywhere.

It's getting sharper, harder. People are zooming in on it. And, you know, thank God I'm not a sort of rapy person because they can't, you know, I was like, when are the next, when do the sexual abuse allegations come in? Next, do they? You know, this lack of truth. If you're not watching a process take place honestly, like the Russell Brown thing, It was not honest the way they went about that.

And I don't even like Russell Brown. I find him an irritating man, if I'm really honest. But you could see levers were pulled. Machines were set in motion. And all of it was... Well, where were the police? If you've got a problem and you've been sexually abused and raped... Lawrence, it's not that simple, mate.

No, but... It's not that simple. What is... I'm not making it simple. I'm turning around and saying, before someone has been formally charged with sexual assault... Oh, he's innocent until proven guilty. You do not have the culture minister or whatever a stupid name.

Oh, yeah. She was a head of a committee. Writing to people trying to have some of council. That is common communism. Well, you know. It's a, it's a member of the committee, the chair of the committee. She's an MVP for Gosport. Yeah.

Do you think she's... He was completely unacceptable. That's what I'm saying. It demeans the problem that they're trying to solve, which is the underreporting and under-conviction of female sexual assault. Yeah. So anyone who's got even the vaguest level of skeptical thought over a government which has lied to us,

relentlessly and relentlessly, you're feeding us. So your point is that that happening sort of like it creates more doubt in people's minds about the credibility of the allegations. Exactly. Which I agree with you entirely on. And I think it's slightly different to the point about go to the police because it is more complicated than that. A lot of, we've spoken to people who've been victims of sexual assault.

And a lot of them will say, you know, it's my word against his. He's much more powerful. Yeah. All of that stuff. And I understand that stuff. Yeah, I really do. But I think, you know, Francis and I both agree with you. And we said it at the time that, you know, these rumors about Russell Brand have been going around in our industry for over a decade.

So do you think, and Russell Brand is the tip of the iceberg. I worked in show business for 25 years. And as I've said before, the number of national treasures I could vary is beyond stuff. You know, and that's not just, that's not for things like sexual assault. And it's the same with Russell Brown and comedy. There's a lot of other people that should have been in the article. Yeah. But weren't.

And I'm curious to find out why that is. Well, it's, look, it's like we've got a problem in the, in the UK. We've got a major, major problem. And I don't think people have quite, we've said, we've talked about it before, but it's got steadily worse to the point where, you know, there's a legitimate reason for sanctioning me. But I think the level of it will make some people think, as you said, is there an ulterior motive?

Was there like, oh, we can distract from the BBC Russell Brown stuff? And we'll just jump on GVie News, get Lawrence done, because that's what we do, because he's a blubber mouth and he says the wrong thing frequently. And again, it applies skepticism. And if this girl, Ava, is talking about, you know, sexual assaults and all of that sort of stuff, weaponising words like, I want men to be terrified and all that, that diminishes away from the goal of what we all as a society. You must have girlfriends and you must have girlfriends

and I have girlfriends. I don't have girlfriends, I'm just married. I know. They're friends that are girls who have experienced at the very least unwanted sexual advances. And at the very worst, much more. Yeah. Yeah. So we have to have a conversation as a society. How do we deal with that problem. One of the ways of having that conversation is to have a free and open conversation about it. And I don't think that the way the media have handled Russell Brown, and I don't think the word she used on that show, which, you know, I know it's harder to get, but she does use the word frightened, terrified. I don't think that's going to ask. This is a talk TV discussion from last year with Connor Tomlinson. I don't think that's going to make, you know, and I know a lot

of men, one of the other things is not talked about, whereas men may be used sexual violence, Women will use psychological violence against men. They will abduct children. They will completely remove children from the father's life. And fathers, again, will commit suicide as a result of it, which Jeff Norkot wanted to talk about in a balanced fair way. But no, the media ecology or the broadcasting ecology, you're not allowed to talk about that.

We're going to talk about it is for girls. All right, Lawrence, we've done an hour's interview, and I really want our audience to have this say, I have no idea what they think of what you're saying, of what we're saying. And I actually think it's really important to get them involved. So we're going to take a break for a couple of minutes, get you another cup of water or whatever. Lovely. And we'll be back in a couple of minutes with your questions.

Keep the superchats coming in. We've got some paypiles as well. We're going to be reading out some of the best ones. We'll do about half an hour when we come back. See you in a couple of minutes. I need to take a while. Hey, guys. Trigonometry needs your help.

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We'll have exclusive bonus interviews that only you get to hear. Click the link on the podcast description or find the link on your podcast listening app to join us. Support us and help change the way we have conversations and make the world saner. Hello and welcome back to our exclusive live interview with Lawrence Fox. This is the segment where you get to ask your questions to Lawrence. So make sure to send through a PayPal or a super chat and we'll put your questions to to Lawrence himself. Before we go into the questions, I will say you were very on brand, right as we finished the interview, before we cut off, you went, I need a waz and stood up,

and that is the last thing that people saw. I'm so sorry. That's absolutely funny. That is absolutely fine. Don't fire me. I don't want to breach your own to your code. Plus, that is the sort of stuff that we do here anyway. So on high like Eagle, sending the superchance says, how do you maintain the stability of your sons during this turbulent time? Are there many mates supporting you personally too. Do your attacks like this give you more courage to fight on? A very good question. My children are, you know, your kids, as you know it, as any father knows, they are a lot of your reason for living. So I do what I always do, which is I make a family dinner every night when they go back from school and, you know, they have breakfast by themselves

because they're grumpy little bastards and forth. But when they get back from school, I make my homemade meal every night and we sit down and we talk through issues and you know what you've got to do when you're going through something like this is give out to your children so don't go into yourself on you know when I've had these before my little ones come up and said are you all right dad and you don't really want that from your kids so you want to I'm like how was your day and you distract out of it I've had I'm very blessed with an amazing woman who is really supporting me which has been great and some really good friends, you know. It's, I mean, it's great.

The situation is like these are great friend culling moments. So we get to go around and cull again. But I've had, you know, I'm, my life is hugely blessed, really. So I, you know, I've got my health and I've got my kids and I've got love. So that's all the matters, really. Absolutely. Richard E asks, Lawrence, what are your plans for the future? I don't know, man.

I'm not sure. I'm doing a lot of the law, our legal stuff. We're going to take the Department of Education to court to stop the... I mean, the government are starting to come round onto our ideas, but we've got a lot of families of kids who've been socially transitioned, then moved on to the full transitioning and been regretted the full stuff. And we want the Department of Education to lay out some very clear guidance or just even possibly uphold the existing one and stop the teachers, well, activists

that were formerly known as teachers and indoctrinating our children with this same mind rubbish that's filling up the rest of the society. M-E-B-L says not a question just to say that most women fully support men's health, especially mental health, being given due attention, which I think is objectively just true.

And she says, I appreciated Lawrence's apology. It felt sincere and thoughtful. What a shit show this all is. Yeah, I think that's the truth. It is a shit show and that's very, very sad. And I do feel, you know, actually, I do feel really sad that I've put GV News in this position where they're now sort of desperately canceling everybody. And Angelos certainly has never been anything other than a gentleman really charming to me. So, you know, it is a reciprocal relationship and I do, I have let them down in that way,

which is why I apologise yesterday because I wanted to, I wasn't apologising, because I'm not trying to say, please can't have my job. I'm not at all. I'm apologising because I have my own conscience, which leads on to this idea, which I actually, we touched on last time, which is if you've got two sides of an ever-increasing tribalism, which won't speak to each other,

you're going to have a fight at some point. And this is the skirmishes that's going on at the moment. You know, we'll cancel them, get rid of them. But it will become physical one day. So part of being a Christian is also to forgive. and you can't forgive unless you ask for repentance, you know. And so that was what the point of my video was, was to say genuinely to her,

so she understood that it was totally genuine that I apologise for the way I spoke to her, whilst not apologising for the sentiment behind what I spoke. And I believe that the world, if we lived in a more forgiving world, then where forgiveness was upheld as a real value, was sexy, was cool, rather than counselling it, which is cool.

Well, this is why we wanted to have you on and have this discussion, actually. And in terms of the tribes fighting, it's what we are trying to do here, which is what we've always tried to do. And that's why, you know, we had Aaron Bastani on recently and Mark Steele and I did a debate on the moral maze with Ash Sarka.

She will come on when she's got a book out. We want to bring people together and have really good, healthy conversations and do them like this where you get to see the whole person. You know, you said some, some things that people will disagree with and I disagree with, but you're also a great guy. And, you know, when I've been around your kids, you're a great dad and you are, like all of us,

a rounded human being who's fallible, who makes mistakes, lives on the edge, as you say, and sometimes you do go too far. And you and I have had our private disagreements on whatever. But, you know, I think it's really important to humanize each other in that way. I really do. I agree with you. I think we, if we, you know, we lose humanity. if we don't. Oh, absolutely. I'm not really getting a lot of messages through. I've only had two

through, but I will, there's this is one message that I've got through that is not a question. Well, it kind of is actually. This is from Richard E. Lawrence Fox is a freedom fighter for free speech. Hopefully he will start his own platform, question mark. Yeah, well, I'll have to do something because literally I've got to feed children. And this is that when you, as a man, you know, again, going back to the idea of man and women, I'm sure as well, But the first thing a man thinks is like, how am I going to feed my kids? Yep. I'm pretty sure that's what women think is.

Yeah. I did say. I know, no, I was just joking. But in a, if you're in a marriage or something like that, then, you know, sometimes it's not the end of the world. But if you're, A, doing what I do, which is pretty busy all the time, I have a lot of structural support around my life to make sure that I can provide my kids with the time that they need and, you know, and everything that they need to do because that's them, that they are the most important. So, yeah, I think it probably will. I don't know. I'll have to work out what to do. Yeah. I mean, you know, got a few million people watched my thing yesterday. Including Elon Musk?

Including Elon Musk, yeah. Matt Shaw says, Sidney Khan spends millions of public money on his May campaign. What's he got to say about suicide number one cause of death among men under 50? Nothing, doesn't care. Nobody does. Well, if we convince Sadiq Khan that suicide in men under 50 was caused by climate change, I'm sure he'd be really involved. But again, if you think about it, are men, like, is the feminization of men helping them? No. It's not.

It's not. Men need to go. Like, I'm lucky because I was raised to be expressive. I mean, unlucky in situations as well. But I do tell people how I feel. So if I felt really desperate, I think I would tell someone. But I've got so many people I know who just wouldn't And you get the call

And it's just heartbreaking And you go, you're a friend And you're like, why didn't I see it? Why couldn't I spotted it? Why didn't I say anything? Why didn't I say to someone that they knew That I was worried or, you know, because we're And I don't think any of this is going to help cucking men.

No, no, I don't think the world. I also don't think men talking about their feelings is necessarily the answer to all of this. I think for men, the answer is doing things you love, solving whatever problems are causing you to be unhappy, whether that is through, you know, therapy or whatever, but it shouldn't be like, oh, I feel bad. Oh, really, we're so sorry for you. You should actually help you overcome the issues that you're dealing with.

Exercise. You know, like, I worked out in my late 20s how to give myself depression in a week flat. How? Just talking to me, Mike. Talking to Francis. Just hang around with him. Just talk to me, mate. No, but, yeah, he'll do that in less than a week.

week, but don't get enough sleep. Drink alcohol or take drugs. Stay indoors. Don't exercise. Don't talk to anyone. Don't speak to family and friends and whatever. You do that for a week. I don't get how great your brain is.

You're going to feel pretty depressed. So I worked out how to feel better. Like the weather turned like a week ago. And I was instantly like, whoa, I can feel. So I was like, okay, well, I need to up my exercise. I need to call my family. I need to do this. I need to do that.

I need to spend more time with myself. son and wife, all of that. That really is the answer, I think, for men, instead of like, oh, let's sit down and talk. Men don't want to talk about our feelings. It's just not how we're built. We're not wired that way. You're right. But I think we're talking slightly different things, which is it's the permission to.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You're exactly right. I've had this neck operation. I haven't been able to exercise for eight months. It's completely messed with my, my habit. I was running in and out of the office every day. I was, you know, it was, I was feeling good. I gave up smoking and then I met a doctor who said to me, why are you vaping?

That's even worse than smoking. Get smoking or give up, everything. And it's had a real profound effect. I'm very much a doer person. I do and I get out and I do things and I'm busy. And I think that's right. You can't just sit and listen to people moan. But I think if a man or a woman or I don't think it should be about sex.

If someone who's feeling desperate and sad, they tend to go quiet. they tend not to go noisy. Yeah. And that's, you know, that's what I've noticed. Yeah, absolutely. Alan says, don't remember anyone suggesting the BBC getting acts when Brand and Ross made their shagged your granddaughter comments. Well, but also at the end of the day, that was very distasteful.

But it was sort of an attempt at humour. Yeah. In the same way as my, I wouldn't shag, that was an attempt at humour. Yeah. So we've also got to remember that the first thing, The sunlight to the woke vampire is laughter. And, you know, we're going to... I wrote it, my song, first four, was laughter.

Just to quellly unoffended. It was a beautiful song, by the way. Sean T says, and we've talked about G.B. News quite a bit, and this is a provocative question, but he says, a serious question following this. What is now the point of G.B. News? Very good question. I don't know, because it's perception, isn't it?

Ultimately, the USP of GB News is free speech. That's it. Home of free speech. That's what they said. We're the home of free speech. Now, whether they still maintain to be the home of free speech as regulated by offcom, you're not really the home of free speech. If you're the home of free speech as regulated by offcom. I don't know why GGB News ever wanted to be regulated anyway. They have explained it to me several times. But I'm like, well... Imagine you can't broadcast on TV without... They should have just gone online. It should just be an online channel, which I think they're going to do. I don't know what the future of GB News is. I think the way that they've behaved, certainly, certainly. that Dan and Calvin is, it's not Dan's fault if you found something I say funny, is it? Yeah, and he did actually say, you know, just to provide violence. I mean, look, he probably should have pushed back a lot stronger. Well, he was laughing, that was the point.

But people make mistakes too. Yeah. But that's it. Everyone makes mistakes. But the problem is if you make mistakes on GB News, it's game over. Yeah. Well, like I said, I think sacking you is what they have to do. I don't understand why they would sack Dan,

and I haven't had a chance to look into the calendar. situation properly. No, we'll see what happens. Esther says you can be forthright, Lawrence, without being coarse, i.e. Douglas Murray. Yes, you can. You can. Absolutely. But fortunately, my name is Lawrence, and my son name is Fox.

Not the Douglas. Murray. Ralph 89 says, would there be any possibility of Lawrence joining one of the existing alternative media networks? Which are what? What are they? Like Lotus Eaters,

etc. I'll speak to, I'm sure I'll speak to about, I'll probably just start one up. I'll just turn around and go, you know, just go around, turn around and say,

you know, let's use the money that we use for this, for that, you know, we'll see. I've always said, from the day I started off

doing the reclaim party, I said, I don't think the political party is the right answer because I don't think there's a political solution to a cultural problem.

Therefore you need a cultural solution to the problem, which is to make, you know, even if it's a, as stupid as saying being a mum is cool. You know, being a mum cool again.

Instead of teaching all of these poor little girls and young women who are coming out of school that the only way that they can ever be truly respected in life is by not having children and bigger, having more money than men. It's like, well, really, you're going to really regret that decision at 38 when your fertility falls off the cliff.

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apart from anything, were some G. G.B. News presenters naive to think it would be a paragon of free speech, when they played in MSM territory, mainstream media territory, and put themselves under off-com, not that GB News can't be a better MSM. Yeah, I think I'm very guilty of their, you know, they sent me their broadcasts, it's charter and all that sort of stuff, and I'm just like, yeah, whatever, I get it,

say what you think, and then if someone don't let someone, you know, allow someone to disagree, that was my essential view of it. So, you know, again, I'm thinking, I think I'm guilty of podcast, Stitis, where you just, you know, I'm, you know, off-com as just sort of some bunch of censorship drones who I don't want to ever speak to or I don't think about when I'm at work.

Other people do it for me or not. I've got another one. Yeah, go for you. Marco says, Mr. Fox, mistakes have been made. You've owned up to them and well done. You do have great points in general and do good work, lead by example, and I wish you luck. Thanks, Trigg gang, for the chance to chip in. TV is not okay.

And Matt Shaw says Adam Bolton is a fool whose career should have been ended when he appeared drunk on TV with Alistair Campbell and lost his rag and Campbell of all people told him dignity dignity and utter gargoyle. Well that's Matt Shaw's opinion. Yeah, there you go.

I haven't seen the Adam Bolton drunk on TV. I've seen a couple... Allegedly drunk on TV. I've seen a couple of really funny drunk on TVs, but my favourite drunk one is drunk referees in football. Have you seen that?

No. Oh, just type in drunk referees in football. Best YouTube video you'll ever see me like. There you go. Mike Croft says, Just Sending love to Lawrence, nothing else. So that's good. Thank you.

And Jason says, do you think the latest form of feminism basically advocates a structural change to make men's observant and subjugated to women? Yeah, it's authoritarian feminism. Absolutely 100%. And it's so bad for both sexes.

Because, you know, there's a reason why all of these, I mean, God, I'm trying to think about some of the stuff I used to be taught at school and, you know, this stuff would be child abuse nowadays. You need good, strong men to lead and families and, you know,

anyone who said that nowadays is an alt-right fascist anti-vaccine conspiracy theorist. It's why things like rugby and, you know, contact sports are actually so important, particularly for boys, so that when you do get a punch in the head, you know, you get a shoulder in the ribs, you realize it's not the end of the world,

it's just a bit of pain and you'll be able to run it off. I know, but my little one was taught has been, you know, goes to one of those, you get free medals for coming last. And I was told that one football match that I wasn't allowed to clap if they scored. And then my, and they indoctrinate children with it. So then he comes

home and he's like, it doesn't matter about winning Dad, it's just about playing the game. And I'm like, okay, do you want a game of FIFA? It's like, yeah. And I just, you know, usually I let him win. And I just started beating him and he just got more and more and more and more angry. And I said, do you know that feeling?

hold on to that because that's competitiveness. And then did you score another goal after that? If you're going to destroy a child's confidence, you must do it totally and utterly. Yeah, absolutely. Seven-nil, Mansfield Town versus Man United. Julia says, Lauren, set up your on YouTube channel.

We need to hear your voice. We need to hear your opinions too. I'm a psychiatric nurse, and you're bang on about male suicide. Thank you for trying to help, Julia. In my inbox, if you could read the inbox of my Twitter feed, of messages from women whose husbands or partners

or children have killed themselves you, that's why I got so upset again at the beginning because I've been reading them all day. Yeah. I just, yeah. Yeah. And Jamie says,

will this damage their reclaim party? I don't know. Damage. I mean, I don't know. I think it's hard to argue that this weren't. But, yeah. Not that I take any pleasure in that, but yeah.

I think that's it. Lawrence, thank you for coming back. Listen, before, we should say this, right, before we leave, which is you're going through a rough time. We may not always agree with you, but you're a friend. And please always call us when you're going through difficult stuff. Whatever is going on, you should remember there's a lot of people who like you and love you and support you, even when you make mistakes, as you did in this case, and all of that aside. So please look after yourself, look after your family, and all the best to you. And this is equally true of anybody else, including Ava, we wish everybody the best, even if they're wrong, even if they say things that are wrong, even if they're on the other side of politics or whatever. We need more healthy discussion and we need more healthy conversation. So thank you for being here. Thank you for coming on and talking to us. I hope this has been productive for everybody and you and us and everybody included. Yeah. Thank you. I'm just off to destroy someone on Twitter, man. Take care, guys. We'll see you later on. Bye. by IP Vanish. IP Vanish protects every device you own, your phone, your laptop, your smart TV. If it connects to the internet,

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