TRIGGERnometry - Leo Kearse - Right Wing Comedian

Episode Date: June 28, 2020

Check out Leo on Twitter (@LeoKearse) and Youtube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCp1hRBGoDHKSn4HiHIzkXAw/featured Support TRIGGERnometry: Paypal: https://bit.ly/2Tnz8yq https://www.subscribestar.com/trigger... https://www.patreon.com/triggerpod Find TRIGGERnometry on Social Media:  https://twitter.com/triggerpod https://www.facebook.com/triggerpod https://www.instagram.com/triggerpod About TRIGGERnometry:  Stand-up comedians Konstantin Kisin (@konstantinkisin) and Francis Foster (@failinghuman) make sense of politics, economics, free speech, AI, drug policy and WW3 with the help of presidential advisors, renowned economists, award-winning journalists, controversial writers, leading scientists and notorious comedians. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello and welcome to Trigonometry. I'm Francis Foster. I'm Constantine Kissin. And this is the show for you if you want honest conversations with fascinating people. Our brilliant guest today is a fantastic comedian, one of our favorites. Leo Kirste, welcome to Trigonometry. Hello, Francis, hello, Constantine. Thanks for having me. You said that in the voice is so different to the way we're doing. You said that you were talking like newsreaders or something.

You never talk like that in real life. It's like, you know, when your mum answers the phone and she puts on that posh voice. Hello, this is... Is that a posh voice? Is that what you're describing that? For Francis? Yeah, for Francis, yeah, it might be. But you're in good spirits, man. You've just come back from Australia

where you were stuck during the lockdown. Yeah, I was out there for like almost six months. So I got stuck over there because of coronavirus and yeah, I just stayed. And I wish I'd stayed like the day after I left, the comedy clubs opened up again. So obviously, there's social distancing. But now it's up to 300 people allowed at venues.

They don't have any coronavirus there. And I've come back to the UK and there's no gigs. and it appears to be some sort of race war as well. I'm really wishing it stayed. It's almost as I see Australians knew you'd left, mate. He's got on the plane, let's open up. Yeah, but it's the world is going in a very strange direction, isn't it?

Like, what do you make of it? Because you've been abroad, you really haven't been part of the whole, like, Dominic Cummings end of the world and, like, all that's here. And you come back and suddenly, as you say, it seems to be very, very serious right now, on that. Yeah, absolutely. I don't know if it's part of it's a response to coronavirus. Everybody's been like, you know, just stuck in their houses for months on end and like just

festering and ready to, you know, it's like a pressure cooker, ready to blow off, you know? I mean, I bet half of the people that were at the demonstrations were just looking for an excuse to get out of the house. But yeah, I mean, and obviously, I mean, I watched the murder

of George Floyd and it's like, I mean, it's shocking. It's a real visceral sort of, um, so such a clear sort of symbol of the sort of the racism inherent in the in the police, the systemic racism. Because not only is the guy killing him, but he's doing it being filmed surrounded by police officers. He knows he's not going to get into trouble. So, yeah, that was, I mean, that was really shocking.

I think, you know, something that visceral, that emotional is obviously going to, you know, people are going to rise up. I mean, thank fuck it. It's like, you know, it's actually making real change in policing. and also across wider society. So, I mean, I think in the UK, we went through that with the Stephen Lawrence inquiry in the 90s,

and so the police took big steps to address systemic racism within, institutional racism within their ranks. And hopefully that's now happening in America, but it's kind of overdue. Sorry to be so serious, you know what I mean? But it is true. And like, you know, I can totally see what...

I mean, the one thing is, white, woke people wasted no time at all, like, making it all about themselves. And, you know, making things worse. Straight out there with that. I've seen them, like, I've seen them on Facebook, the stuff you've seen on social media, I've seen white people renouncing, renouncing their white privilege. It's like you can't renounce it. You're still white. You know what I mean? The only way to renounce it is to do blackface. It's definitely going to make things worse. You know what I mean? So you can't renounce your white privilege.

Did you, did you buy, I saw lots of people with books. Did you get some books and then do an Instagram story about it? Man, none of those people are going to read those books. I've seen people posting photos of like 58 books on colonialism and like, you know, systemic racism and stuff. They're going to read. They're not going to read those books. Like that's ridiculous.

It's like a thing that they're, it's just performative, you know, it's virtue signaling. And also a lot of these books, I saw there's one, there's one called, it's called something ridiculous, like how to talk to black people or something. It's written by a white person and the whole thing is just sort of all this guidance that you've got to like go through when you're talking to a black person as if like the you know what white people need when they're talking to black people is more of a stick up their ass you know what I mean I think what people need to do is just they need to make honestly to

make um people less racist it's got to be simple and I think you know simple rules nobody's like some people are going to read 58 books most people aren't going to read 58 books those guys that were protecting the war memorials and doing Nazi salutes they're not going to read 508 books You need to make it simple, like just something like don't be a dick and like, you know, listen and, you know, if somebody raises something, then listen and take it and see it from their point of view and stuff. That's how it's got to be. At the moment, like, woke people are trying to make an enemy out of quite a big swath of the population. And I really think, you know, people need to be brought on board and, you know, led to be less racist. You can't like, you can't batter them over the head. In psychology, there's a, there's a thing called psychological reactants. So you want to do that if somebody comes and, like, you know, shouts at you to tell you not to do something, you want to do that thing. Yeah.

You know, it's a, it's a weird, you know, disincentive. So, and you see it with censorship, you know, if something censored, then people want to find it. They want to find it. They want to see it. And I think it's the same with, with this. You know, if you shout at somebody and scream at somebody and call them names, you're not going to win them over to your side of the argument.

We need to, like, make it easier for people to be less racist, to make it, you know, a nice thing to do and not battering them over the head but sort of recognizing their point of view and bringing them with us. I mean, apart from the guys doing Nazi salutes, they can just be fed into a mincer, you know what I mean? Like, fuck those guys.

He's going to get done for incitement to violence against Nazis now. So we'd like to publicly distance ourselves from anybody who wants to kill Nazi. And to the few people who have that persuasion, we realize you're not Nazis, you're nationalist. It's very different. But actually, so basically what you're saying, was canceling Little Britain isn't going to stop racism.

Oh, man, all these TV shows getting cancelled, that just plays into the hands of the far right, because they've already got a narrative of white British culture being under attack, which, you know, it is to a certain extent, you know, the Cockney, I almost said race, but the Cockney culture, the Cockney Rights might. The Cockney tribe. I mean, if the Cockneys were in the Amazon or Papua New Guinea,

you know, all these, like, you know, woke lefties would be trying. trying to preserve their culture. Because they're white, everybody's like, nah, fuck you guys. You know what I mean? Go to Essex. Going by a house in Essex. You know what I mean? Take your jelly deals with you.

But, you know, I think there is this narrative in the far right of, you know, white British culture being under attack. So if you cancel all these much-loved TV shows, you're just playing into that narrative. I mean, they're saying they're looking at canceling some episodes of only fools and horses, taking them down. I mean, you might as well shit directly into the Queen's mouth. You know what I mean? And that is just like such a red flag.

And none of it's being done by people of color. All the TV executives, they're all these well-meaning woke lefties. They're all like Oxbridge-educated white people. This is why we need more like BAME, like representation in the arts and executive positions in the media. Because they're not going to make stupid position. They're not going to cancel only fools and horses as some sort of gesture to make themselves look good. You know what I mean? If there's more like black executives in the BBC, I might have a chance of getting on it.

But actually, you bring up an interesting point. because, joking aside, I'm not sure if it's about BAME representations. It's probably more about working class representation, do you think? I think that's really the issue. And very often when they do diversify stuff, it's the same Oxbridge graduates just with a different skin color, but they all woke lefties, as you say, as opposed to actually get genuine diversity in that. And you see it with people of color as well.

I mean, a lot of the people they get, like, you know, Nish Kumar, whoever, they're people of color. but they've got the same Oxbridge, you know, lefty voice that, you know, all the white comedians do. So, you know, there's not so much, you know, there's amazing, amazing diversity of voices on the club circuit, but they don't all make it onto TV. It tends to be just that sort of strata of Oxford educated lefties. You're really lightenish, don't you, yeah. He slag me off. I had nothing against him, and he slag me off on stage, and it's like, don't slag me off, you know what I mean?

Bear a grudge. My mate went to see him in Edinburgh, and he was on some compilation show, and he was drunk, and he was shit, apparently, and he slagged me off. He slagged off right-wing comedians and, like, name me, and I can't remember who else.

Well, done. It's just erasing all the other right-wing comedians from the field. You're the one right-wing comedian. So he slagged you off, and then you've been slagging him off ever since. Twice. Twice.

And now. I just did it now. But I didn't really slag him off. I just used him as an example of, You know, this sort of like, you know, it's, it's, um, on the surface it looks like diversity, but, you know, it's, it's not really diversity. There's, there's much more, you know, genuinely, culturally and whatever else diverse voices out there. I mean, I might not be articulating that very well, but I'm from, I'm from rural Scotland for first.

You know, I mean, I haven't done a degree in like, you know, this stuff. This is the problem with woke people, man, they're like, somebody who's done a degree, you know, they'll attack somebody like Tyson Fury. They'll be like, oh, his, his opinions, are terrible. He's like, yeah, he hasn't been working on his opinions. He hasn't done like, you know, eight years PhDs and like gender studies and stuff. Of course he's got terrible opinions. He's been learning to get really good at boxing. Like, why don't people, like, nobody talks about like these people who've done all these gender studies degree being, being shit at boxing. Like, if you focus on your opinions, you're going to get really good

opinions. If you focus on boxing, you're going to get good at boxing. I mean, it's a good point. I'm not, we're having a laugh about it. But the reality is, is that if you've got opinions which are not deemed to be the correct ones, you're not going to get as far as probably should. Yeah. That's true. That's a great answer. On that note,

our last question is. Take Edinburgh, for example. So, explain to people who might not know about Edinburgh why Edinburgh is so important

as a comedian and why it's so important to get noticed and to progress. Yeah, I mean, there's a big sort of industry cattle market where all the comedians go,

we do our shows, all the industry is there then go and see the shows. And, yeah, I mean, basically, I mean, for me, it's an opportunity to make some money and write a new show. It forces you to write.

I mean, I think Edinburgh is an actual important thing for a comedian getting picked up by the BBC or whatever is diminishing less and less. Like social media is becoming so much more important and videos he put out on YouTube or whatever. But yeah, I mean, it's, you know, traditionally, that's why Edinburgh was important. What was the question?

Maybe you might disagree with it. I don't think you will, but isn't it a fundamentally biased system and way of doing things, the Edinburgh Festival? Yeah, I mean, the industry is still hugely biased towards sort of middle-class, woke, university-educated lefties. The industry is run by white, woke lefties, and, you know, anybody who doesn't fit into that mould doesn't get much of a look at. Look, I spend a lot of time telling you what's wrong with the world, so let me tell you about some I mean, that's actually right. Sleep, specifically getting more of it, better quality,

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woke that. What does woke mean to you? It's quite a sort of. rigid ideology that shifts over time and like what's woke one week won't be woke the next week and like anybody's using last week's terms

I noticed recently somebody used a new term for Beem people so you know with people of colour you know it evolved to Beem and then

and now it's Bipok with what Black Indigenous Black and Indigenous Black and Indigenous and people of colour I think and there was a reason.

There was a reason that did sort of make sense about why you'd use that. But then, like, anybody's using the old terminology, you know what I mean? It's like when your granddad comes out and, you know,

use some sort of racist term. You know, just because he hasn't been up it. They isn't learned it out of malice or anything. It's just what they've been taught but like, like, woke culture is always, and nobody's ever going to be.

It's almost like, with woke culture, nothing's ever pure enough. It's like this religious purity. And they've constantly got to apologize and atone for sins that you may not have even committed, you know what I mean?

Sins of your forefathers. you've got to apologize for a slave. I'm not being funny, but I doubt my ancestors own slaves. There's only a tiny proportion. I think my ancestors were just digging a field full of turnips somewhere and having a shit time. But you've got to apologize for all this stuff. And it's almost like they've repackaged Catholicism.

You know, this constant sort of aton, this religious purity that you're never going to attain and also the constant atonement and, you know, absolving yourself. And then feeling better because you've done that. Maybe there's something innate in people that wants to do that. Every Sunday wants to confess their sins and say they're going to be a better person and read these books on racial justice, you know?

Fuck a kid. Too much? Yeah, I think that is too. But that's what these religions do anyway. Yeah. We can cut that out. No, it's staying in. It's staying in.

Bipok, I didn't know about this. I think between all of these different groups, they're going to capture most of the alphabet very soon, aren't they? I mean, the thing is, once you make these acronyms big enough, like LGBTQ has gone on to lots of iplus and stuff. And now it includes me. They've included me in that thing. So they've got me turning up to their parties and they're like,

who the fuck this guy? No, they're not really. But once you make, because I dated that transgender lassie. And I went to do a show about it in Perth and got cancelled. So what happened with that? Tell us. Oh, so basically I did this. I did this show

Right Wing Comedian a couple of years back Well last year in Australia in fact And obviously a name like that Got people's backs up in the arts community Because you know they're all for diversity But not diversity of opinion You know

It's got to stick to this rigid sort of woke lefty narrative You know you can't have any mainstream opinions Broadcast on a comedy stage That'd be terrible So yeah so I was doing the show right when comedian People went on to try and try and get me cancelled they dug through my stuff, went through my Twitter, went all the way back to that afternoon

and found something that I'd posted. And it was about, it was about the difference in transitioning between men and women. How it's, you know, people talk, well, it was about male privilege. Because people talk about how it's, how there's male privilege,

but I think it's tough being a man. You know, that's why so many of us are transitioning right now. And it is way harder for somebody like me to transition to being a woman than it is for a woman to transition to being a man. Like, if I want to transition to being a woman, It's a whole extensive thing. A woman wants to transition to being a man.

Basically, she stops shaving and, you know, grows a beard and people might be like, you know, I think that man's got tits. If I want a transition to being a woman, there's, you know, there's all these hormones, surgery, all the rest of it I've got to go through. And people got really offended that that material was transphobic. It wasn't intended to be transphobic. It was just looking at the differences in, you know, the experience between men and women. and, you know, it's just a fact

that men who transition to women pass less convincingly in society than women who transition to men because you get small, feminine men like you two. He's small now, he's lost a lot of weight in the long time. Did you notice? No.

Have you lost me? I've lost about two, don't you, prick. Have you really? How did you do it? Basically, I locked myself in my flat for three months. can't cook and I had a breakdown. Right. Yeah.

It's a good way to do it. Yeah, yeah. You had an actual mental breakdown? No. Anyway, it was a joke. Come on. Fuck off. No, we're all waiting for you to have one.

Well, I mean, it's inevitable. Next time I get cancelled, which I will be. Which I will be. What were we talking about? We're talking about small effeminate men. Oh, yeah. So you get smaller feminine men. So, like, you know, women who transitions to being a man will pass.

But you tend not to get, you know, large, masculine women. you know, the prominent browbone and the jawbone and all the rest of it. So women who transition, men who transition to women don't always pass as well. And that's just a recognized thing. But people, people said, people aren't as, people who aren't as well informed as me, but think that they're woke. Accused that, accused me of being transphobic and got me canceled from my venue. And my venue just pulled me straight away.

They just said, you know, this is an inclusive space. You have to leave. And, yeah, I was out. And yeah, like, what was the original question? It's the third time he's asked that. But what do you make of a lyric? Because there's a lot of people in the world of comedy who, like, you know, we've probably used the term woke lefties like 20 times in the course of this interview.

They'd be like, well, yeah, but it's never the funny comedians that are complaining about censorship and comedy, like all this kind of thing. Like, do you think maybe we go too far sometimes and we talk about all the censorship? When actually, we can all kind of do the stuff that we want to do. Is that? I mean, I think censorship is, it can be quite a subtle thing. You know, even just, even just the self-censorship that you feel, most censorship is invisible. It's just put on you by yourself. The artist censors out of fear. So, I mean, if you're in a repressive regime, then, you know, like Iran or Brunei or something, then you're going to self-sensor,

you're not going to mention the Sultan or whatever it is. I mean, I did a gig in Brunei last year and where comedy is illegal and, you know, obviously I wasn't allowed to mention the Sultan. But also, I mean, it made it exciting because it was illegal. I bet your trans material went down great. I can't remember if I did it. I think I just did like regular club stuff. But even like, you know, talking about shagging and stuff. Well, I mean, just the act of doing comedy in Brunei is, you know, you're not allowed to do it.

Yeah. It was fun. Yeah, so under a repressive regime, that's the kind of censorship you do. Are you saying that that's kind of what we're doing here as well? We self-censor? Yeah, yeah. If somebody comes out and, you know, does anything, you know, if you question the, the woke narrative then, you know, you get shouted down. People, you know, see it, they say,

oh, it's a dog whistle for racism and stuff, or you're apologising for these, for right-wing people or whatever. And yeah, that can have as much of an impact. And also, I mean, there's comedy club bookers who admit that they won't, they won't book me. I mean, most comedy club bookers, they want to make money, they want everybody to have a good time. They know I'm not spouting, you know, hateful stuff. If you spouted, if you genuinely did hateful stuff on stage at a comedy night, it wouldn't work because you don't need to censor comedians. There's already a jury in front of us, judging us constantly. And that's the audience. If they don't like it, if they think that we're being, you know, racist, sexist, homophobic, they're not going to laugh. You've got to,

you've got to sort of agree or at least recognize the truth that something's coming from and find the person likable to be able to laugh at them. So censorship in comedy is a bit ridiculous because it's completely unnecessary, given that we're constantly self-censoring and constantly in that feedback loop with an audience. And it's interesting that you say that because there's a comedy night that we do all the time, which is Comedy Unleashed, which we all love and we have a really good time at. And then every once in a while, some really noble, a kind, woke person pops up and says it's a racist gig. Yeah. And that's the kind of thing that affects, you know, now there's people saying that they want to distance themselves from Comedy Unleashed. And, you know, the same comedians who

perform there are like, you know, alt-right. They're just talking about me, mate. Yeah. And yeah, like, that's censorship. That feeds into people's self-censorship, and that feeds into people's perceptions, bookers perceptions, people in the media's perceptions, and cuts down avenues.

You know, it's a subtle way of chipping away at somebody's freedoms. I guess it's not really censorship in the sense that the government isn't coming in and stopping it. Maybe what we're really talking about is this fever pitch, you know, everyone's a Nazi or everyone's a work lefty. Maybe we're doing it a little bit too. Like, everybody's evil, you know, on both sides. And therefore, it feeds into

this narrative that if you don't agree with somebody entirely, then they must be evil. Yeah. Now, I would, you know, like, I've seen many of your shows or performances in club, and whatever. To be honestly, I think you don't have to be right-wing or even centrist to enjoy them. I think it's just great comedy. But I think what happens is, if, we keep being told that this is a knight that only caters to right-wing people or whatever, then it creates this false perception. Yeah. So I think maybe it's not sensitive, probably the wrong word.

Do you know what I mean? Like it's something else. Yeah. Although I mean, censorship doesn't have to be this draconian sort of state-imposed absolutist thing. I mean, it can be the just gentle suppression of ideas in people. And self-censorship is the, I mean, when we think of censorship, we think of, you know, Lenny Bruce being arrested and all this kind of stuff. but most censorship is just self-censorship

that you do according to what you think is going to be what you think is fashionable and what you think is acceptable and what you think is on trend and what's going to be good for you. And is there stuff that you've not done that you've written that you thought this is great and it's funny and it's not

it's not hateful or anything like that but you've gone, no, I can't do that. Yeah, no, absolutely. I mean, I was dating a Nigerian lassie for a while and I did stuff about... It's good stuff. No, but, you know, I did, I mean, and it was a,

a cultural eye-opener for me. There's, there's, you know, cultural differences between us that really, I mean, I didn't know about the weaves. I didn't know about the weaves. Like, I remember, I was kissing her, and I was like, what's these nobles in your head? And she's like, it's my weave. And I'm like, what's a weave? And she's like, you don't know what a weave is? I'm like, no.

And she's like, I'm wearing, I was like, no way. And she's like, did you think this is my real hair? And I was like, yeah. You know, I didn't know. So there's all that sort of, you know, culture clash stuff. but I found, you know, when I spoke about it on stage, some audiences like that, but sometimes I could just feel arso starting to clench a little bit

that, you know, I'm talking about this sort of, you know, racial interplay. And do you, just before you jump in, Francis, do you find, like, I always find that, well, it was like four months ago whenever when we did comedy, but I've always found that if you do stuff about race, which is what you're talking about, anything like that, it's, in my experience, and maybe I'm judging and maybe I'm judging,

and maybe I'm wrong, but my experience is always the middle-class woke people who are white that don't like it. Yeah. And it's usually the minorities who are laughing their heads off. Yeah, yeah. So really what I feel is it's not so much that people from those communities are becoming more easily offended. It's the white, woke, middle-class people who are being offended on their behalf preventatively. Do you, is that? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, woke, white people love to get offended on other people's behalf and they love to try and fix problems that aren't, you know, they're not best place to fix. I mean, if history is shown as anything,

it's that oppressed, marginalized people are their own best advocates. Like, we should just sit back and let them speak and support them. You know, Martin Luther King's speech wouldn't have been improved if some woke white guy in a Black Lives Matter t-shirt

barge him out of the way and say, well, wait a minute, we're going to part that for a moment because I also had a dream. You know, I was riding a giraffe with the cheeky girls, you know, and whatever it is, you know. It's, like, I think woke white people

always try and take offense on other people's behalf and also try and fix things. And it usually backfires. It's really interesting when you watch comedy from like 10 years ago. Like even old episodes of Mock the Week with Frankie Boyle on them from 12 years ago. And you are absolutely just flabbergasted

at what they got away with. He said something. Like, even as a comedian, we're like, oh, that's a bit near the knuckle. Yeah. Everybody laughs. And then they just move on to the next job. Yeah, yeah.

Do you think we've become more censor? in comedy now? Oh, absolutely. I mean, even Frankie Boyle himself. He made all his money doing these outrageous, hilarious jokes about completely unjustifiable things. Like, there's no way you can justify that joke he did about Jordan's Kid Harvey. Right. And that's, that joke has got everything. It's a rape joke. It's misogynist. It's racial. It's like everything. And that joke is fucking horrible. And now, like, I bet he made loads of money off it. He made a load of money. And now he's turned around and he's like, oh, everybody else shouldn't be doing, you know, shouldn't be doing these, everybody's got to be woke now.

It's like, how about you give that money that you made doing these fucking horrible jokes? I mean, they're very funny. Blanchbert and stuff he does it, but how do they give that money to like, you know, other comedians that aren't allowed to do those jokes then, you know? Me, give that money to me. See, I would have gone to like orphans in Africa,

but no, you just, you just want the money. Me. Yeah, yeah. Someone's not opening for Frankie Boy. But it's amazing, isn't it? And, you know, all of a sudden, we've come to this point where, You just can't say certain things and you self-censor yourself.

Do you reckon it's going to come a point where comedy is essentially not really going to work anymore? Or do you think there's going to be a backlash? I think there's going to be a backlash. And I think it's already started. And I think people recognize, you know, mostly recognize that comedy's got to be a sort of unsafe space where we can be outrageous and provocative. Because that's where the funny stuff is. I mean, it's not for everybody.

I mean, but I watch Nanette and, well, the other one, Douglas. I mean, I try to watch, I just, I don't get, like, but people are loving it. So that's fine, they can love that. But that's not my kind of stuff. I want to watch, you know, Jerry Sadowitz and stuff like that. So people have got to recognize that just as I can't shut down Hannah Gadsby, they shouldn't be able to shut down Jerry Sadowitz or Bill Burr or whoever I want to watch. Hello, guys, and welcome back to my bedroom, aka La Maison del Bonking.

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look sharp day to day and we're really happy at trigonometry to be able to offer you this in conjunction with harries so you get a trial set for three pound ninety five that is a trial shaving set for three pound ninety five and the brilliant thing about this offer is that it gets delivered straight to your door so you get the shaving handle the five blade razor the shave gel and the travel blade cover and it's really simple to claim on this exclusive offer. All you need to do is go to harris.com forward slash trigger. Harries.com forward slash trigger to claim your exclusive offer and who knows if you play your cards right you'll end up looking like me. Yeah and it's it's really interesting because like you said like that desire to shut it down why where do you think the counterculture

is happening? Do you think it's something like comedy on leased like nights? Is it the internet or is it other things. I think, yeah, it's across a lot of things. There's, I mean, comedy unleashed, but also regular club nights. You can really, I think people think club comedy, it's just jonglers, it's middle-aged guys doing dick jokes.

But actually, it is better. But when people have paid, when people have paid 15 pounds to go and see comedy, like, they'll really stay on board for, you know, you can explore some ideas, political ideas, social, cultural ideas. And I think it's a good way of

defusing tensions because there is, I know I mentioned it before, but there is this sort of pervasive feeling amongst, you know, certain sections of white British society that white British culture is under attack. And that's, that's a thing that's going to, that's a feeling that's going to have to be acknowledged and dealt with. Anybody who voices anything about it at the moment is shouted down as a racist, you know, I mean, actually, I was arguing with somebody today, like I said, you know, we should make the, you know, the guy, the hero from the riots who carried the black guy who carried out the white guy possible fascist

we don't know but yeah there's a good chance he was throwing Nazi salutes or whatever before that but he carried him out saved him risked his life to save this guy who might be ideologically opposed to him might hate him whatever you know this black guy he risked his life to like save this white guy and it's a beautiful moment and it does so much to defuse the tensions and show you know

the you know it's just a beautiful symbolic thing and then you know this guy should play the new James Bond and somebody like came straight in, they're all like, oh no, we've got to have a white James Bond, you know, we've got to have a white James Bond. It's like, why? He's like, he's British, and it's like, well, he's been played by an Australian and an Irishman, you know what I mean? Like, like, Idrizelba is more British than fucking George Lazybe, you know, like, he's totally, he's like, no, he's going to be with it. But it's this weird.

I mean, I was ripping the piss out of this guy for saying James Bond's got to be white, but that is how people, that is how some people, some people feel, they feel like, you know, the attacks on all that the TV shows getting taken off, it all, you know, feeds into this narrative of sort of white persecution. And I mean, it goes out. There's obviously deeper stuff as well, like the Rotherham, you know, grooming gangs and stuff like that, which were, you know, the report said that political correctness, you know, woke culture was part of those incidents being ignored and allowed to carry on over decades because people were scared of looking racist. so they allowed children to be abused rather than look racist by taking action to do it. And also, you know, it shows that class is still a huge injustice in our society, you know, because they're white working class.

They're just ignored. There's no, you know, there's nobody advocating for them. They're seen as, you know, the lowest rung of society. And, you know, I think that's something that's got to be addressed as well. It's really, again, because it's deemed unacceptable to punch down on certain people. But if you punch down on white working class people, that gets automatically a big reaction, you know, a little round of applause, all the rest of it. And you were mentioning about Rodham, I think the report got released, was it last month?

And they suppressed it. Really? Yeah. Yeah, they suppressed it. Right. So, again, because they're afraid of, you know, inflaming, you know, racial tensions. Yeah, but they're inflating, they're inflaming them more by not releasing it. Yeah, because it's kicking the can down the road.

And it's also giving, you know, fueling the fire of, you know, what's name, Tommy Robinson and, you know, all the sort of far right people. So, you know, it really needs to, people really need to acknowledge it and deal with it before it becomes, you know, something that feeds into the far right. I think this is where the cultural aspect and comedy is part of this needs to recognize its role in the sense that if you can only make fun of certain groups, like I know lots of working class people who are absolutely up for being made fun of. As long as

so as everybody else. Yeah, yeah. But at the moment you start saying, well, you can't go there, you can't go there, and only these people can be the target of your jokes. Then you're going to start to see a fight back there as well. And then who the fuck knows, well, we're going to be back to airplane for it, aren't we?

Yeah, yeah. See, it's a funny subject. Yeah, it's hilarious. So, I mean, obviously with the lockdown as well, it's had a deadly impact on comedy for some time in this country. Why do you see, do you think we're going to come back this year? And when we do, do you think it's going to be completely different, the same? Like, how do you see it? I think it's going to be gradual. I mean, there's some promoters putting on driving gigs,

which, to be honest, it's pretty horrific. Like, up in Glasgow, they're doing them. So you're standing in a truck, you've got a big screen behind you so everybody can see it. But then you've got like all these Glasgowian families sitting in cars armed with car horns in front. You're not getting into the laughter, the feedback laughter from the crowd. But you are going to get Glaswegians going, fuck off. So, and also you've got to keep it clean

because it's families in the cars. So, yeah, I'm not, I'm going to do them because I like money, but I'm not looking forward to them. And then I think club shows will start to return. I mean, a lot of people are saying they don't feel comfortable going to a comedy club because you crammed in with so many people.

But, I mean, coronavirus is pretty much over, isn't it? Isn't it? It feels like it, don't it? Yeah, it feels like it. You know what I mean? Maybe not if you have you. 80, but for the rest of us. They never came to my shoes anyway. Maybe it's woke, mate.

No, but it seems like the lockdown, I mean, like we have recording this in London now, I don't see many people socially distancing or anything of that. Especially not in this room, mate. No, in this room. You guys can't see. There's about 73 people in here right now. All the windows and doors are shut and we can't breathe. Yeah, but yeah, I mean, it does seem to be over. I guess what I was asking as well is, do you, like, As I was thinking of, you know, coming back or whatever, are you thinking you need to, like, do things really differently with comedy,

or you think we just come back, you know, you start doing basically the same stuff you were doing before with... I think I'll probably update it. The one thing that's happened is because I'm doing internet stuff and recording videos, I've been writing a lot more. So I think doing stuff on the internet is great for writing. Because you can't come out and do the same 20 minutes every week. So, yeah, writing stuff, recording it.

And I think it's great with the internet as well There's no sort of upper limit My salary has been fairly sort of constant Because there's only so many club gigs you can do So you can You know, you're sort of cap, you're limited by the And they never pay more than you know Like two, 300 credit

Occasionally you'll get like, you know, more than that But you know, you're generally sort of limiting You can only do like maximum, you know, one or two a night So that limits you Whereas with the internet there's no upper bound on how many people you can fit in the room. So, you know, I think like you guys with Triggerometry, which is, you know, taken off,

and comedy and leash, which is taken off online. You know, that's a sort of way forward. So do you think more and more that you're going to be on the internet and comedy is going to lose that sort of live environment? I think live environment is still, there's nothing, nothing's going to replace, you know, being live on stage in front of people. That's just, I mean, that's the sort of visceral thrill that I think, you know, comedians need.

That's what I really meant. I got so depressed, like the first bit of lockdown. Because I went from doing festivals, so I was like, you know, doing so many shows a day. It was so much fun. And then, like, you know, straight than nothing. It was horrible. And then you get an occasional, like, Zoom gig or whatever. You're just shouting at a laptop webcam.

You switch the laptop off, and you're just like, fucking, well, you reckon there's light fitting and it'll hold a rope. Yeah, it was grim. An audience is the same. I think people, you know, they want to be in the live environment as well. There's nothing. You can't beat that, for sure. Yeah. There's something about human nature.

We want people around this. We want that communal experience. Right. Yeah, absolutely. But equally, I think a lot of people are scared, too. Yeah. Like Francis was saying, they've been terrified for three months. So stay at home, don't, you know.

Maybe the whole protest on the riots might open the right a little bit on the front. That was the turning point for me, man, because I followed every single thing to the letter. And then the moment you're not in Russia now, man. You're in Britain. Nobody follows the rules. Well, I did, like an idiot. And then you wake up and there's like thousands of people in the street and you go, eh, maybe this wasn't all that real.

Yeah, yeah. Man, it's interesting times, isn't it? Interesting times. What was the question? I don't know what the question is. I bet how comedy is going to be after coronavirus. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, I think the internet's good. But the trouble with all this internet stuff is you've got to really work at it. You guys, you must work really hard doing all the editing and all this and just organizing people to get in a room, you know what I mean? I can't organize stuff. If I could organize stuff, I'd get a normal job. Like, the only thing I'm sort of remotely qualified

for is getting on stage and shouting. And I need a deadline to get anything done. And a gig is inbuilt deadlines. You've got to get to the gig and do it. Like, I haven't to record videos and edit them and upload them and do subtitles and stuff. It's such a pain in the ass, you know? Tell me about it.

But let's talk a little bit about hating live as well, which is like an improvised show that you do with another comedian. I'm glad we didn't mention it. Yeah, let's not mention him. Yeah, fuck you, Darius. Haydiv. Hating, Lads. But is that something, do you think, can, like, just tell people what it is, and we'll

maybe talk about it. Yeah, so basically, Hating Live is a show that I run with Darius Davies, and it's a sort of, you know, there's censorship in comedy, and you've got to be careful about what you say. this pushes the line way over because what we do is we get the audience to give us suggestions and then the comedians have to get on stage and hate on whatever that suggestion is.

So it's coming from the audience so they'll accept far more evil stuff than they would have you just came out and started saying that stuff at a normal gig and it's just got a brilliant atmosphere and we've been doing it for ages now seriously like eight years or something like that and we take it to the Australian festivals

and the Edinburgh Festival and we tour it around the country and it's really brilliant fun. I was thinking whether you could you could do that online, but then I remember some of the comments that even we get, and I was like, I'm not sure that's going to be able to take. But have you thought about doing something like that, maybe like with TV or online or something like that? Yeah, yeah, we thought about doing it, and then it turns out we're lazy,

so we didn't do it. We did think about it, which I think is an important step. But yeah, we are going to do some. We're due to record a show at Comedy Unleashed before, yeah, before coronavirus. but then a coronavirus hit and we can't do that. But yeah, I think it might work online. You know, if you did it on like a Zoom thing, I don't know.

I mean, the really exciting thing about Hayton Live is it's really transgressive. So, you know, you get the improvised topic and someone pulls something out like, I don't know, like little babies or whatever it is. And then you've got to hit or, although you've got to say why paedopholes are brilliant. Yeah. And immediately you can see the crowd just go, oh, this is something really exciting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it almost feels like a complete antidote to, you know, bland TV comedy where you're just sitting there, you go, I know what you're going to say, I know how you're going to say, I know what the punchline is. I can't believe they haven't put it on TV. We've got, we're talking to BBC Studios about doing it. We've been talking to the other TV producers, and it's like it's such an obviously simple format that just works. And you can do it in a sort of, it almost works as a sort of more genteel show than our sort of late night rowdy live show. We've done it in bingo clubs and, you know, all. sorts of venues where you've got to like, you know, scale it down a little bit. It works as a sort of,

you know, more Radio 4 type show as well. But it's just so much fun and there's just that tension in the air and then the release when the comedian, it's obviously the comedian, you know, they've got to hate on something or they've got to say why they love paedophiles. Nobody's going to come out and it'll be like, you know, like, I really love bombing kids or you know, nobody's going to. Somebody will do it on the internet, right? On the internet, though. On the YouTube coming on people, I'm going on paid for children, too. Actually, there's been a few comedies, that, a Russ guy. Yeah. There's been a few that could have.

There's that one caught by the pedo hunters. In the Midlands, I can't remember what his name was. But, oh, man, it was brilliant. I love it when comedians get caught by pedo hunters. Nothing's more entertaining than seeing a colleague caught by pedo hunters. Oh, my God, it's like, cancel, cancel everything this weekend. I'm standing and watching this. I've got a, my favorite are the woke comedians who praise international women's date

was when you know about their dating history and their reputation with women. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, remember Chris Coltrane, he's all like, you know, hey guys, I'm a feminist and all that sort of stuff. And it turns out he's sexually assaulting women. You ran a comedy night. Just allegedly. Allegedly. Leo, we had some run-ins with defamation and libel recently. So we have to say that we have no actual evidence that Chris Coltrane assaulted women. Oh, well, except the women who called him out on Twitter saying that he'd assaulted her. he immediately left comedy and closed down his Twitter account his website and social media

could be a coincidence man I don't know I mean even Michael Jackson held on in there you know what I mean yeah but Michael Jackson was good at music right he's saying Chris Coltrane wasn't the same level but it is like an iron rule isn't it like if someone goes on about how much of a male feminist they are yeah they've been they've been nefarious behind the scenes

yeah yeah and I think it's what like when Aziza and Zariari when he got he got in trouble for basically he went on a date with us last he got his cock out and you know he was trying to like you just really start treating her like a piece of meat

and like trying to fuck her like but with no charm no finesse no seduction you know what I mean? Not the Leo curse why is he didn't even buy her a bottle of buckfuss but the thing is I mean if you heard somebody if he heard somebody from Motley crew doing that you'd be like yeah what you know I mean like yeah

Motley crew. Of course he's going to get his dick out. But Chris, because Azizan Zari had been like, oh yeah, I'm a feminist and even written books about how to date and how to respect women. Like, it was worse, much worse coming from him. I think that's what we need to bring back, you know, good old-fashioned honest misogyny. Asizanzari shouldn't feel the need to do these books on feminism and stuff. Just, you don't come out and admit, yeah, I see women as objects, and I'm going to put my dick in them, you know? I can respect that. And then, like, at least women know, women know when they go on a date with them, like, he's going to get his cock out.

There's a woman in the room is laughing at him right now. But it's transparent advertising, right? You've got to be honest about what you want, right? Yeah, yeah, none of this like, you know, a trade descriptions act depending on, oh, I'm a feminist,

here's my cook, you know? Yeah. Do you know what we do, on these interviews, we also got a thing called trigger clips where we clip little bits of the interview. Oh, yeah.

Right, just, and put it on without any context. I'm going to put that up there, mate. That's going to be the title as well. But it is, it's a... We laugh about it, but it's also enraging, isn't it? The utter rank hypocrisy of these people. Yeah. And then because the general public takes them at face value,

and they go, like, we all know the one particular comedian wherever he goes, he's such a nice guy, and you're like, no, he's not. Who's that? I'm not going to say. We'll say afterwards. There's so many of them. There's so many of them.

But he's very woke. Well, I mean, that's the rule in comedy. If somebody's a nice person on stage, they're a cunt off stage. You know what I mean? Whereas Darius, total dick on stage, the nicest guy in the world off stage. We don't go that for me.

That's pushing it a little bit. It's pushing a little bit. But, you know, it's interesting. I always find it interesting just having chats with comedians because I think, like, obviously comedians don't have a fucking idea of what we're talking about to some extent.

But on the other hand, there's also a level of sensitivity to the culture because, like you say, the audience is always giving you feedback about what's acceptable, what's not. So what do you kind of see in terms of the cultural moment that we're in? Like, are we going to become more woke or more worried about, like, offending people? Or is there going to be, like, a massive backlash against that where you're going to see people maybe going back to doing, like, really outrageous stuff that's maybe actually too far? Like, how do you see the moment that we're in? Well, they've been pushing walk-com. Lomaday for quite a while now, and some of it's sort of taken off and become popular, like Hannah Gadsby, for example.

But the comedians that are still making the big bucks, like Ricky Jervais, Dave Chappelle, Bill Burr, the ones that are like, you know, proper, you know, could fill arenas and make loads of money with their Netflix specials, they're not woke. So, I mean, it's almost like a fashion that's, you know, it's making a lot of noise, but it's not, I feel like we're at the tail end of it. like it's like Brett Pop when menswear came out and they're bidding more for menswear but you know then it all like fell down

in a pack of cards I think I think we're going to see a return I mean anti-woke comedy never went away it's always there like Dave Chappelle you know all these people they're not woke I think the reason that it's felt like that to us to a large extent is that people like Chappelle Chavez etc they're independent they can do whatever they want

they're not cancelable whereas for us it's much more a case of like well if you say the wrong thing, or, you know, people look at your Facebook and you said something he didn't like, then you're not going to get booked for clubs, and that's your livelihood. Yeah.

So it feels very different. So I think that's where a lot of discrepancy comes in, is if you want non-woke comedy, you can go and buy a ticket for 50 or 100 pounds and see the Bill Bowers, the Ricky Javas. But if you go to a comedy club, I mean, it's all woke to a very large extent. And there's a few exceptions, but generally.

But I think in London, maybe, it's woke. But then the bigger clubs, I wouldn't say it is woke. I think it's much more like Bill Burr or Chappelle or, you know, somebody like that. I mean, at the bigger clubs, they want people coming and spending money, having a good time going away and coming back. So they put on good people instead of woke people. I'm not saying there aren't good woke comedians,

but I just can't think of any right now. Oh, Leo. So I'm wondering how many bits of this episode We're actually going to have to come. None. None. Because we said allegedly. Yeah, that's true.

You go as beep boat, Chris Coltrane's name. Twice. Twice. And Russell Browns. We're definitely going to have to, yeah. We were going to be sued by a very prestigious lesbian magazine. Oh, really? Lesbian magazine for men.

Graham Linhan, when we had him on the show, said the Diva magazine was a lesbian magazine for men. Yeah. Whereas it's a lesbian magazine for trans people. Ah, right. So he was being transphobic saying like transgender people are... But he was joking and all of us laughed, obviously, because transphobia is funny. But what he said was a joke and then they pretended that it was meant literally and threatened to sue us.

Yeah, yeah. So from that moment on, we try not to say things that are true. Yeah. I'm surprised. Like, Graham Lennon, all these people are sort of using their voices to sort of kick. transgender people, you know what I mean? Because they're the most, you know, like, they're the most sort of vilified. It's the only sector of society, apart from like white working class people, that it's okay to openly sort of be shitty to. Like, it's still a big problem. So that's not

very funny, but like, you know, so you're not a fan of the, of the, of the, of the, of the, of the, of the, of the, of the, of the, I just, I don't know why, I don't know why he's doing it. I don't get it. Why he's got a, like, a, a be in his bonnet for transgender people. I mean, I totally get, you know, there's, it's a, it's a, I don't know, I don't know, difficult issue in certain ways that, like, you know, there's changes that could be exploited nefariously. Like, you know... Well, it's an issue of women's rights, Leo, is that argument. Yeah, exactly. You can't just have a guy being able to put on a frock and going to, you know, women's spaces. But then on the other hand, like, Danny, the last day I dated, like, absolutely stunning, totally looks like a,

like a woman. If she was in the men's toilets, people would be like, what the fuck are you doing in here, you know what I mean? And so, I mean, where does, where does Graham Lennon, draw the line. Does he have a hotness rule? Leo clearly does. Of course he does, mate. He's problematic. No, I mean, look, that conversation is one where there's a lot of militancy on both sides. And we've had people on from all sides to talk about it. I think there's people who think, who feel very strongly that it's about protecting women.

And there's people who feel very strongly that it's about preventing discrimination against trans people, which we all support. You know, we're joking about it, but of course we do. Yeah. So I guess it's about finding middle. ground and we don't seem to be in a time where anyone wants to find middle ground on any issue. Yeah, and it's such a nuanced issue and it's almost a sort of case-by-case basis. But yeah, I mean, hopefully the government is, you know, bringing through legislation that's going to, you know, deal with it. Look at the twinkle in his eye.

He knows it's not going to happen. But I actually think a lot of the pushback against some of the excesses of the trans lobby has now resulted in the fact that the legislation you're talking about, which is the gender. Recognition Act, they've taken out a lot of the stuff that was just like what you're talking about. I'm a woman. Right, yeah. That's gone now. Self-I-D.

That's gone, right? That was the stuff that people were pushing back against. But I think for some people, like, everybody has an issue where they're like, this is the thing. And I'm going to tweet about it every fucking day and this is my thing, you know? And I think people can get stuck in that militancy a little bit. Yeah. And I think it's probably a social media thing more than anything. Oh, man.

Social media is just not helping. right now. I mean, when there's the Rodney King riots, you know, at least there weren't, social media wasn't amplifying the worst voices on each side. You know, like, and, you know, you're just hearing from neo-Nazis and from, you know, militant anti-antifa people. And there, you know, people pick the extremes to show, you know, they're the voices that get shown, you know, so somebody can grab the Antifa voice and say, like, look, this is what this is what this side are like. Somebody can grab, you know, the neo-Nazi voices, and they'll be like, this is what these people are like. when they're just the very narrow slivers

on the extreme ends of the dicks. Yeah, Constantine is doing very one on social media. Big fan of Antifa. So I don't understand social media. So I've got about, what, 4,000 followers on Instagram? I was looking, there's a chicken

that doesn't have any feathers. This chicken that doesn't have any feathers just running about looking like a mad chicken with no feathers. It's got like 60,000 followers. A chicken with no feathers. So you're less than 10% of a chicken What have I got to do?

What have I got to do? You like this chicken that doesn't have feathers? You don't like me? And do you think audiences have become more censorious, Leo? Or do you just think it's an emboldened minority? Well, they'd certainly seem to like chickens that don't have any feathers.

No, I don't think audiences, I mean, certainly some audiences. I mean, I've had people in audiences that, you know, that... Do you get walkouts at your shows? Oh, yeah, I got walkouts. I get walkouts. I get walk-ins. walk-ups. You have had to jump off stage and throw people out of shows and stuff. Because when you do the free fringe in Edinburgh,

you don't have security or anything, so you've got to do it yourself. You're well suited for that role. But actually, I mean, to be fair, like, walking out a comedy show, you know, they could have just been walking out because of shit. No, I mean, the worst thing about,

worst thing is when they stay and, like, just, you know, like, stay and try and, like, you know, fuck with the show. I hate that. I hate that. I had one of those in Edinburgh last year. But yeah, I guess what I'm saying, you know, just talking about audiences is like, I think people, you know, people have a right not to like a show and walk out. That's not, that's not censorship, you know.

Yeah, as long as you get the money. No problem at all with people not liking the show. Comedy is very subjective. But then, like, I don't know why people come to a show that it's like, you know, called right-wing comedian. They're like, wait a minute, this is a comedian's saying he's right-wing. Oh, my God. He wants lower taxes and smaller government. Oh, my God, this guy's Hitler, you know. Why do people do that? Like, you know, read the thing. I went to see, last time we went to see Jerry Sadowitz, fucking loads of people walked out.

And it's like, what did you think you're paying $25 to see? Do you think people enjoy that walking out? They get some kind of superiority out of it? They get to have that performative moment where they, you know, make their voice, make their feelings showing, their opinions showing. Man, they've got social media for that. I'm going to tweet, they're disgust.

So, you know, you get people following you on social media just to hate you. I get people following me on social media. And then they like comment under my tweets and this is disgusting and stuff and I'm like well thanks for engaging with it, you know? And they're like actually we're ratioing you. So you've got more like comments than likes or whatever. And it's like I don't live a fuck, you know what I mean? I'm not getting paid for this shit. Yeah. And you talk about being right wing comedian. Is that more of like a marketing thing for you or is it really very much like that's who you are, that's who you've always been? Like I'm not saying you're being fake or anything. I guess I'm just saying like did you feel like you had to lean into that persona a little bit more to stand. out. So you think I'm being fake? Definitely. Definitely, mate. I think, I mean, you know, part of it's marketing, part of it's getting a show idea

that you can then write funny stuff. Because I find like writing funny stuff, all these like, you know, BBC writing rooms where they're like, hey, what's the angle we can take? Donald Trump's an idiot. You know what I mean? That's not funny. St. Donald Trump's. Also, it's not fucking true. Man, this guy's got like, what, $4.4 billion? He's got like big skyscrapers

with his name on them. You know, he bangs porn stars. This guy's not an idiot. This guy's the fucking dream. You know what I mean? fucking legend. Like, yeah, and now there's these comedians saying he's in a bad businessman, you know, oh, he's a bad businessman.

No, he's a great businessman. I'll tell you what a bad businessman would do, like become a comedian. Put on a show at the end, but a fringe lose loads of money. That's like, you know, I don't know, I just find there's more opportunity for humor, you know, being right wing

and playing devil's advocate that way. And, you know, from a realistic point of view, I worked in policing and I worked in government for a long time, and I just saw how nepotistic and corrupt everything is, and I just believe in small, government and, you know, fewer resources flowing into the government. I mean, the whole idea of socialism is that, you know, some apparatchik behind a desk can spend your money better than you can, you know what I mean? And I support it for things like the health system, like nationalised

healthcare is just better, it's more efficient, you know, just you get a better service and it shouldn't be something that's done for profit. But for other things like councils, you know, are just expanding the roles way and way out of, you know, what they should just, you know, keep the streets clean and, you know, collect the bins. That's all they need to do. schools and stuff. Don't need to do anything else. Spoken like a true Nazi. Well, thanks for coming on, Leah. Thank you. You've got nothing to plug, I imagine, at this point. No, you can follow me on YouTube, like Leo Kers. I've got like 5,000 followers on YouTube now.

Yeah, make sure we'll put the link to the channel. All right, cool. Put the link in so people can follow you. A very funny guy. And Leo, the last question we always ask is, what is the one thing that we aren't talking about, that we should be talking about? I wrote something down. Oh, well, it better be good, mate. I forgot what I forgot what it was. Oh, yeah. Let's keep that in.

We've already mentioned it. Yeah, dealing with the, well, I didn't know I was going to have to answer a question. Didn't know there's going to be, like, turn up. We did actually tell them. We got an exam. We've got an exam at school. You turn up, they're like, oh, we've got an exam. I haven't revised, you know?

Yeah, yeah, because interviews don't normally have questions, right? Nobody's, yeah, nobody's talking about it. I mean, I think that a big problem going forward is going to be the sort of the white, British feeling of culture. and values and, you know, heritage being under attack, you know, war memorials be faced, TV shows getting taken up. And, you know, I understand those things weren't done for that reason. But I think, you know, that feeling of white British culture being under attack is going to fuel the rise of the far right. So it needs to be dealt with, you know, they need to be brought into the conversation and just made not to feel pariahs, not to feel outcasts. Well, maybe we should

up attacking white British culture, that would be a good start, wouldn't it? Yeah, yeah. That'd be like a simple fix to that issue. Yeah, no defacing war memorials. Like, if there's grooming gangs, then deal with them quickly and effectively. Sounds pretty radical, man. Yeah, yeah. Extremely radical. All the things to deal with that are, you know, are pretty, pretty nice things to do. I can't say it happening anytime soon. I'm going to be honest, mate. Can you, what do you think it will be the response? From what? From the government, from society, to that issue?

to that issue I mean I'm not I'm not sure to be honest I'll love to see how things settled but I mean given the sort of what happened on Saturday where that was shocked by the by the you know

neo-Nazi salutes and stuff that was really like shocking to me and really abhorrent and I was like I felt really sick like much worse than you know I saw the he's got all these work talking points yeah he's I felt sick in my stomach

no I know he's just upset that you saw your audience out of much exactly well that's the thing is sometimes you know you post you post the video on YouTube and somebody posts on really be like, we need to get these fun and you're like, no, no, no, no, no, that's no, no, no, no.

I just want smaller government. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, on that happy note, Leo, thanks for coming on, mate. Cheers, thanks for having me. Good to see you. Make sure you go follow Leo's very, very funny and he likes to rub the wrong people.

I thought he was going to say penises there. That's transphobic. He likes to rub the right people the wrong way. I like to rub. Consensually. I like to rub the wrong penises the right way. Yeah, exactly. Absolutely.

Especially his own. Now, thank you very much for watching. We'll see you very soon with another interview or live stream. Take care. Absolutely. Next time, we'll make sure to do an intellectual one, guys, for those tuning in, thinking that it was going to be an intellectual one. See you next week.

I could have talked about police.